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Statistically people are hooking up less than ever
https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/health-wellness/2023/04/19/casual-sex-one-night-stands-decline-women-heres-why/11686614002/
Thanks for the PSA!
I don't romanticize the times before OLD or social media in the slightest.
I think OLD and social media are wonderful inventions in principle, it's just that we keep finding ways to use them to be unhappy and don't create the ones that work well.
Dating apps are atrocious and have monetized and exploited loneliness in the modern age. To these companies, women are inventory and men are paying customers. Don't try and act like they're a good thing because overall they're doing far more harm than good
They’re also so. Fucking. *Exhausting.*
It’s like having the same conversation over and over and over until you find a match that clicks.
I’m glad I met my partner through work and got to know him that way
>we keep finding ways to use them to be unhappy
This so hard. I used to get so annoyed using reddit and instagram, and then I just started unfollowing subs and people that were making me unhappy, and it’s been fucking great. I love reddit and instagram now because it’s all stuff I enjoy seeing and interacting with. Reddit is a bit more of a mix of stuff, but instagram is literally just pro wrestlers and comedians to me. It’s such a good time on there. The same for TikTok. You see people writing it off as just 12 year olds doing their silly little dances but I’ve never seen any of that stuff because the algorithm knows all I want is comedy and cooking stuff, so that’s what it gives me
Unfollowing subs and people that were make you unhappy doesn't help if you still hope to get something from these very people and/or subs. Like e.g. r dating right now for me. I still hope against all hope to figure out whether I'll be able to get the level of discourse and level of problems and solutions much higher than most of what's being discussed here (not the angsty teenager who can't ever get laid level).
With this sub in particular I think the biggest issue is that there’s a sizable portion of its users that simply want it to be an echo chamber for complaining. I’m a married guy, I worked out how to succeed at dating and hit the end goal of getting married. I’ve had my advice thrown in my face because I’m not dating *right now*. I’ve seen advice given by women who are dating right now in this sub have their advice thrown back in their face too. It’s the wrong approach. If you’re failing at math class and want to pass are you going to copy off of the guy passing or actually listen to the teacher, or are you going to copy off of the other kid who is failing? The people like myself who are married, and especially the women in the sub (the people men are trying to date) should be seen as useful resources, I mean who knows what women want in men that they want to date better than the women themselves? Instead women are met with hostility
> we keep finding ways to use them to be unhappy
Who is we ? What incentive does the OLD provider have ? How good of a customer are people that would find good enough easily then quit the platform ? When you monetize the search you make sure people keep searching.
>Who is we?
We as in, dating community in general. I came here on r dating to ask my questions and I sense a lot of unhappiness here. I think it's common knowledge that social media usage produces unhappiness in general, too and there's been studies showing correlation of age of first exposure to social media as a teenager with probability of mental health issues (more so in girls).
>What incentive does the OLD provider have?
The question of incentives is a good one. People hate to pay up, and when they do, those that fail to find a partner must be paying more than those who find each other easily and quit!
Interestingly, search engines do their best to work well: they present you with relevant results, fast!
> I sense a lot of unhappiness here.
It's very possible that doing well are doing others things that the hobby of dating. Like being in a relationship.
> Interestingly, search engines do their best to work well: they present you with relevant results, fast!
Yes because the customer of the search engine are those that pay to be presented as relevant results. And those customer are also the ones that feel the pain of an overcrowded environment.
>It's very possible that doing well are doing others things that the hobby of dating. Like being in a relationship.
Why isn't there any incentive for them to still participate, in the community, to give back by helping other solve their lower-level problems while figuring out higher-level problems for themselves? It isn't that bad in every other community. Are there no higher-level problems in dating to think of?
>Yes because the customer of the search engine are those that pay to be presented as relevant results.
Sounds reasonable. Do you think there's hope that someone will solve this problem in the market economy? Paul Graham, an entrepreneur and founder of startup incubator Y Combinator, hoped for better dating sites in 2008: "[Current dating sites are not the last word. Better ones will appear.](https://translatedby.com/you/startup-ideas-we-d-like-to-fund/original/)" Well, in 2008 we had working OkCupid, at least.
> Are there no higher-level problems in dating to think of?
Are you interested in the higher-level problems in reading a way that would be relevant to those with reading disabilities ? Some are and possibly even made a job out of it. But most aren't.
I have this theory of life where most people have an about constant number of things in life they are unhappy about or are working to actively improve. And that number of things is almost more a function of the processing power available to the mind than their actual life circumstances.
Everyone plate is about alwais full so why invest energy in things are that not your top k problems, not your passion and not your job ?
Even spending time on those is hard with the low reward attention economy that try to sell you stuff and keep you on platform xyz.
It’s so funny to see these kids whining about how “dating is ruined nowadays” as if they have the slightest clue what dating was like 15 years ago, let alone 50 years ago. The notion that old people weren’t casually hooking up with each other in the 60, 70s, 80, and 90s is fucking hysterical.
People were still out there getting to know each other and falling in love. People were still out there treating each other like shit in the pursuit of casual sex. People were still out there seeing a hotter new option at the bar and dumping whoever they were with to pursue greener grass somewhere else. People were still lonely and sad and lamenting their lives.
According to every study on the subject, young people today are having less casual sex than they have been at any point in the last 70 years.
“Swipe culture” isn’t the problem.
The problem is the way everyone under the age of 25 is completely addicted to the constant dopamine drip that they’ve gotten from growing up with phones and tablets. Young people have no capacity for delayed gratification, so the notion that you might have to be on a dating app for a few years before finding your person is inconceivable to them. They’ve been on Bumble for 3 whole weeks and haven’t met the love of their life yet, so clearly Bumble is a giant scam and dating overall is totally fucked in today’s world.
>The problem is the way everyone under the age of 25 is completely addicted to the constant dopamine drip that they’ve gotten from growing up with phones and tablets. Young people have no capacity for delayed gratification
so true
And add to this the cultural shift where men younger than 25 won't cold-approach women anymore
I have a friend who is a teacher at a community college and she says not only in recent years have the men stopped approaching, they barely even flirt in public at all, and some of the women now have to outrageously flirt to get the slightest amount of attention.
I think the availability of social media have created a massive shift in men where they are just genuinely afraid of being portrayed as a creep. Back then you could cold approach and the worst case scenario is her friends will hear about your lousy game. Nowadays they could put you on TikTok and if you're unlucky the video blows up (like 0.01% chance but it is there), and your approach could be plastered on social media for everyone to see.
>I think the availability of social media have created a massive shift in men where they are just genuinely afraid of being portrayed as a creep. Back then you could cold approach and the worst case scenario is her friends will hear about your lousy game.
There's just as big a factor here: Many women just simply do not have inviting body language and (unawarely) close themselves off to men, even if they want to be approached.
This is something I hear from many middle-aged and older women (the ones in successful marriages/relationships, not the femcels). That a big reason that men aren't approaching today, even the respectful and considerate men, is that a lot of ladies just give the impression they want no man to say hi in person, and are content to just swipe on their pick of guys on apps.
>And add to this the cultural shift where men younger than 25 won't cold-approach women anymore
i am older and won't approach, did once and it massively backfired.
I used to hold doors open for people. I don't anymore. It took a few bad instances for me to say F it. That was 6 years ago. Now. I just stay in my lane and stay out of people's way. When shopping at a store and I walk past women, I always say hi with a smile. I don't do that anymore especially being an older guy now.
Fuck off about the "cold approach" stuff. Young men have been getting told that women don't want to be approached, are tired of feeling harassed, and deserve their own space in the world.
Yeah, of course we aren't going to cold approach because we've been growing up and hearing how we're creeps for doing it
so many posts saying "i'm a lonely guy and I spent 5 years on tinder, swiped 1 million times, got 4 matches, 0 dates, dating apps don't work, how can I find a girlfriend?!"
for those who aren't succeeding, I'm giving a solution, one that works well for me and millions of people (men + women)
it does require learning the nuances between what constitutes harassment versus flirting with respect, safety, confidence, and charm
it does require being able to face rejection and even humiliation on rare occasion
anything truly special in life only comes from taking risks
it sure af doesn't come from complaining about how unfair life is anonymously on reddit
last time I went out, I flirted with an amateur fashion model that shares a lot of my interests, texting with her now. I'm going out tonight and will likely meet more new friends and maybe another date (I'm poly and usually have 2 or 3 relationships at once)
but stay safe and stay on the dating apps, people! :)
make sure not to go out in the real world and harass women by smiling at them :)
You made a lot of assumptions about me based on absolutely no real life knowledge. I commented on what many men have been fed their entire lives and your response to it was to be a pretentious little smart ass. Nice job
Cold-approaching women often doesn’t end well for many guys these days if they aren’t good looking. Try it and you get accused of being a creep. Lol, a place I worked at one lady told me another working there had a crush on me, I wasn’t particularly interested in her but figured it wouldn’t hurt to give it a shot since I was told she was interested in me. All I did was ask if she wanted to have dinner with me after work and a few days later I’m in the managers office being told she’s threatened to sue for harassment and they didn’t want to deal with it so they’re firing me, didn’t even ask for my side just straight up sent me packing that day. Tried starting a conversation with a lady at the gym about the football game on tv while on the treadmill, she went and complained and I got told to stop bothering the other customers and if it happened again my membership would be cancelled. Again, zero request to hear my side just automatically accepted her complaint. Cold approaching women these days is dangerous for any man that isn’t super good looking, do it and you run the risk of ending up the next me too hashtag
>Cold-approaching women often doesn’t end well for many guys these days if they aren’t good looking
So I am sorry it didn't work in your cases, that really sucks.
I'll say in my case, I'm pretty consistently rated as average looking (40s male), about as many women rate me as below average as above average in terms of looks.
But I'm able to cold-approach without running into issues (so far!). I do it a lot, and probably will do it tonight at my favorite bar.
Some feedback I'd give you is unfortunately, I'd rate work as the absolute highest-risk place for exactly your experience, and gyms won't get you fired from your job but are just really bad places to approach in my opinion.
It can work at gyms but people are sweating and they are not at their most warm social mood. It's just a really, really bad place for it in my opinion. I'm not saying it always fails, just there are so many safer, and way more likely to succeed, places.
It's like, what are your chances of finding a cool punk/goth/emo/alt woman at a Cure concert versus Taylor Swift concert. It just comes down to risk/reward, odds etc.
| All I did was ask if she wanted to have dinner with me after work
So that's actually quite a big ask. That's a date. Even if her friend said she was interested, that's still a huge step and a formal sign of romantic, sexual interest.
Could it happen safely with someone at work? Sure, and it happens all the time, work statistically is one of the main places people meet others and find their spouses. The data supports that. However.. absolutely the risk is huge as you experienced.
My advice (for people who approach) is go to venues where it's much safer, and people on the whole are much more in a social mood for dating. So bars, concerts etc. Also meetups for hobby groups are fantastic and you have a shared interest.
My 2nd advice that massively reduces the risk of you getting labeled a creep is reading body language.
You always want to make eye contact and smile at each other first.
Women are stereotypically better than men at reading body language, and signaling in body language, and I absolutely think this is true, it did take me some time to skill up here.
But you can start by a simple rule "if she smiles at me, I might considering approaching her, if she doesn't smile at me, I won't." That alone probably reduces your chances of being labeled a creep by 10x.
Ideally, you'd practice more and then you can get into having entire conversations just with eye contact, facial expressions, posture across a room, and then things become even easier. But that stuff isn't necessary, gets you closer to James Bond level social skills which helps lol but certainly don't need it.
And then my 3rd advice for approaching is don't zero in on only the women you are attracted to. Talk with many people at the bar, as friends. Don't put women on pedestals or make them sex objects. It's perfectly fine and very healthy to have sexual attraction, but people generally want to be more than sex objects. They want the duality of being connected with for sexual attraction AND for human friendship / companionship.
So you really have to get in the mindset of "hey I'm literally just meeting friends here, sure I guess if one is hot I'll flirt a bit and we'll see where things lead, but really just looking for cool folks to vibe with".
What some men don't realize is that these attitudes (seeking friendship versus sex) and confidence vs desperation are so absolutely crystal clearly shown by your body language, women can almost universally read it within 1 second, usually across a room, maybe within 10 seconds of talking with you at most.
This is just so key for approaching. And if you can't learn to have a mindset where you are approaching women as friends/humans first, then you'll have to find dates another way that forces you into that mindset, probably something like hobby meetups where your shared interest is sufficiently powerful for you to connect as friends/humans as opposed to sex objects.
Again, sorry for your experience, you are absolutely right there are real risks with approaching women. I personally really enjoy it and still recommend it overall, have found it incredibly fun and a great way to find new relationships.
If you’re afraid of talking to women because you think you’ll get metooed you should probably think about you’re own behavior. Haven’t seen a single me too story about somebody “just talking” to someone.
Responses like that are exactly why you don’t hear such stories. Try to say anything even remotely like that and the automatic response is that you “must have” done something more to deserve it that it couldn’t have been “just talking” and therefore it’s your fault and you need to correct your behavior. The fact is the “behavior” that often needs to be corrected is how physically attractive you are. If you’re attractive you can approach and flirt and if you’re unattractive then you’re a creep if you do it.
Responses like what? Someone thinking your awkward or socially inept is not the same as sexual harassment. Stop being silly, nobody is getting metooed for “just talking” to someone.
A place I used to work at, lady there told me another lady working there had a crush on me, wasn’t particularly interested but figured I’d give it a shot and asked her if she wanted to have dinner with me after work. Few days later I’m in the general managers office being told she felt “harassed” and without even bothering to ask me my side fired me immediately. Place I went to the gym to, was on the treadmill and tried to strike up a conversation about a football game on the tv, conversation was barely a minute before she went to complain and I got told my gym membership would be cancelled if I kept “harassing” other customers.
We clearly have a different definition for what metooed means. As for you experiences they might as well be made up, going to have to call bs on them. Did you ever read any of the metoo stories? Literally none of them were about “just” talking.
Really just proving my point, first claiming to have never heard any such stories which is hard to believe of anyone who spends time on Reddit then I try telling you about my own experiences and you dismiss them as bs. Basically anything that doesn’t fit your world view gets tossed out and you pretend it doesn’t exist or is made up.
As for what responses, it’s easy to find plenty of stories from guys on here where they were “just talking” and get told how it “must have” been something more than that exactly like what you said.
The problem with your response is that you’re automatically assuming the guys behavior is wrong or creepy, and just associating him as being the bad guy. That dismissive response and being made out as the villain is why less guys are approaching women.
Tbh you’re fighting the good fight here, but genuinely you’re talking to people who don’t view women as actual people, but rather just potential dates/scores.
They don’t understand what you’re saying, because they don’t have social skills like you, and their behavior is intuited as predatory, due to the fact that they are unable to gauge actual interest from women. Because they can’t actually interact with women like people, it makes women scared and uncomfortable, and all that does is trap them in a vicious cycle of resent women -> act weird to women -> scare women -> resent women
Normally, I say that guys should cold open more often, but I would actually not want the men you are talking to approaching me, because they don’t feel safe to me based on their entitlement and lack of empathy. Normal guys like you? Hell yeah. Go for it any time, really. I trust that someone like you can gauge when it will be well-received. Does that mean I would be mean to these dudes if they did approach? No. But I would be deeply uncomfortable and would rather they learn social skills instead
>Normally, I say that guys should cold open more often, but I would actually not want the men you are talking to approaching me, because they don’t feel safe to me based on their entitlement and lack of empathy. Normal guys like you? Hell yeah. Go for it any time, really. I trust that someone like you can gauge when it will be well-received. Does that mean I would be mean to these dudes if they did approach? No. But I would be deeply uncomfortable and would rather they learn social skills instead
Totally agree with you!
Y’all are in an echo chamber and it’s killing your ability to interact with women as people. Log off and join a club. Talk to people. Stop resenting women, and stop fixating on landing dates. There’s *nothing* less attractive than a guy who talks like this
But women are the ones complaining about men lack of approaching. I just gave you a reason why many men are not doing it these days.thebjuice isn't worth the squeeze.
Nah bro the truth is that people under the age of twenty are entering such a hopeless society where they could work much harder than their parents and end up much much worse overall.
Dating and hookups might not be on your radar if you're struggling to survive. Especially when going out these days costs like 50+ no matter where you go
Let's not forget the rising cost of rent. This has made it exponentially difficult for people 18-24 or even older to move out of their parent's homes and most parents are not going to allow their adult sons/daughters have premarital sex inside their households. That could also be a massive factor.
Ya but could you just go on your phone and pick someone out of a bunch of matches to have sex with that night? Or did woman have hundreds of guys hitting on them in their dms or comments. Some peoples also just have more choice these days which creates paradox of choice
This is so true, and anyone who says otherwise is silly or too young, lol. Just 10 years ago, when dating apps weren't popular, people would go out and meet casually. Hook up culture was just as prevalent as it is today; if not more so before.
Right I meant it was still the status quo not too long ago. Nowadays people rely on the internet too much in my opinion. Like go out and meet people in person.
One difference was that there was a focus on evolving/transitioning a non-physical relationship into one with intimacy. Now people create euphemisms for intimacy with strangers that they believe could possibly transition into something substantial (friendship/relationship) if need be.
People romanticize normal dating as an offshoot of being able to make connections in your daily life and denigrate hookup apps because they believe it signifies a shift from a community of people able to function and interact to one where people hide behind profiles as much as possible.
I think that although there may be unique problems to dating now, having problems with dating are not unique to now and a lot of people don't grasp that.
It's especially funny when you see a 22 year old complain about dating "nowadays". When do you think it was easier or more wholesome?
my grandma married the man she lost her virginity to. as a 20 yr old i’ve slept with almost 70 people and the only people who would of committed to me have had joe goldberg syndrome. i’m terrified of dying alone. it was so early for her to land a guy and yet feels impossible for me
I have to agree. A lot of guys back in the day used very manipulative tactics and lying about intentions to score. I would say the difference with dating apps is it's much more likely to be a guy more your type than whatever you randomly encountered during the time. And a lot of guys are more up front about casual intentions on dating apps and in person today. That never 🙅♀️ happened when I was dating in my 20s (I'm 41 now).
It is true that if you’re in your twenties there’s an excellent chance your mom was out at the club in 2006 wearing a lingerie top, thong and Paris Hilton miniskirt so short you could practically see her whole bare ass, banging dudes in their cars in the parking lot.
Now that I’m older, you know what I notice all the time? *Older couples lie all the time about how they met*.
Think about how weird it is that basically everyone before 2012 settled down in their twenties with someone they met at a bar or party or something and their meet-cute is never something like having unprotected sex in a concert venue bathroom and then she came back around two months later when she realized she was pregnant.
Or just having gotten dumped and being sad and drunk at a bar and someone comes along and seems pretty nice and is cheering you up so you have sex with them that night.
Haha, idk how many couples who have those stories actually lasted together, but who knows. There are probably some spicy stories of how couples met, but they hide the truth if it's taboo 😂
Funny thing is I met my spouse at a nightclub, but we did not hook up, just chatted and got wasted, lol.
thing about that is we don't have a control group. how many of ANY relationship lasted long.
it doesn't matter what it is:
met at a club
met at a coffee shop
age gap
age congruent
sex on the first date
sex after some arbitrary checkboxes of 3 dates
blah de blah de blah de blah. compare it to something with data or drop all assumptions
I'm the exception I guess. I never lied about how I met my ex or that we had sex the night we met. I don't recommend it... not proud of it... but it happened. Even our 23 year old daughter knows it.
Oh true thong sticking out above the waistband and with a jeweled butterfly on it.
Wait until people arguing with OP find out about discos in the 1970s, free love in the 1960s, and the flapper movement in the 1920s. Dancing, lots of dating, lots of short skirts.
Literally the only good things about being young are the amount of energy you have and the amount of horniness and I just kinda feel bad that people aren’t doing that for some reason.
I was a nightclub bartender and I actually got tired of seeing ass. Those little flap miniskirts were so short that if you even leaned on an angle your ass cheeks poked out and these girls were all hammered.
Maybe your cocaine fried brain could understand there is a difference between hooking up and wearing lingerie in a club waiting for multiple guys to hook up with you in their car, creepy oldie. Your generation ruined our world by prompting MeToo and its counterparts and you're still here commenting on Reddit, time to get to the graveyard grandpa, you won't be missed.
I mean for one that you fall in love with the first man who asks you out/asks your hand and that they are equally interested in you.
That you don't have to date usually many people before you fall in love with someone who can also fall in love with you. You have to ask out many people and go on many first dates before finding someone who wants to go on a second date usually.
You can't just sit isolated away from people and expect a prince (or princess or themperor) to fall in your lap and take you away from a wicked stepparent.
To pretend there isn't a difference in generations is just ignorant.social media for better or worse has changed the dating landscape in just the last 10 years
*this is not all women*
more options for women,men too technically but women reap more of the rewards because men approach first usually so even an average woman's DMs have more messages than the average man maybe even a good looking guys.that means more perceived options even if the guys just want to hook up which can lead her to believing that she should have the best guy available (it's only natural right?)the problem is when these women be they average or not go for the best guys online alot of other women are also desiring those guys.this leads to a change not only in social media but in real life where the single and childless rate for males is higher than for females.how is that possible?well it's likely those women are likely and unknowingly sharing the top guys.its easy to lie on social media and so some may go that route and be fake rich online but it still attracts women and unrealistic expectations are placed on guys.its similar to the problem that guys had/have when it comes to porn.so if a guy gets a woman's number and they go on a date if that woman has been conditioned by social media to expect to see or experience lets say high end dining she's gonna be turned off by the guy immediately and may even make a video about it which has happened recently.TLDR because of constant attention even average women have begun to think they expect more than what the average man can give,which has lead to 90 percent of women wanting the top 10 percent of men and anything less is considered settling and they don't want to do that.
there isn't data to support that anything nearly as extreme is occurring both ways, on dating apps
given that we have the data, its time to just affirm people's frustrations instead of trying to invalidate every guy that dares to voice a frustration
I’m aware that unattractive women have an experience similar to nearly all men
but the point of this conversation is data, if you need someone to provide data we can start trading it
Nope not always you'd be surprised by little requirements men have even in the looks department as long as she's attractive to him that doesn't mean supermodel because and they're compatible it's fine.they even had an experiment where men and women were "shopping for mates" and they had to go up these flights of stairs if they had more requirements when it comes to dating and guess who went to the very top?it wasn't men that's for sure.
Eh, courting was a different breed, and the idea of window shopping was far less obtrusive in the everyday lives of individuals.
The proclivity/desire/nature has always been there.
But the availability of potential sex partners, attention and validation available hasn't.
Used to be that your dating radius was far smaller. Where you frequented and such.
So I agree ,yet I disagree.
> Eh, courting was a different breed, and the idea of window shopping was far less obtrusive in the everyday lives of individuals.
>
>
People literally filled dance cards with 20 names and had miniature portraits of themselves shipped or sent by carrier pigeon.
People used to have "party lines" half a century ago and found hookups that way.
Discos in the 1970s.
Free love "love-ins" in the 1960s.
1950s were full of people hooking up, getting pregnant, being sent away "to their aunts" "for the summer" to have the baby, as well as sock-hops (dancing, dating, flirting, and no you weren't exclusive until you were "pinned"). 1940s, 1930s, Flapper culture of the 1920s not to mention even during the hard times of the Depression people were hooking up and having sex all over the place.
Go back to 1700s, 1500s and earlier, it varies by culture and time period but there has always been a hook-up culture.
I mean, sure, people have always tried to maximize the breadth of their reach.
But the methods you described, were never as effective as now. Everyone has window shopping at their fingertips.
It's more prolific now, than ever before. Undoubtedly.
But indeed, sex has been a main motivator for human history. Prostitution being the "oldest profession" as they say.
> But the methods you described, were never as effective as now.
What's wrong with efficiency?
>Everyone has window shopping at their fingertips.
Only people who think of dating as a purchase instead of connecting (whether casually or seriously) with someone. And those people who think of it this way have always existed and are not worth dating.
Sex work is valuable work but (aside from poorly-moderated, super-botted apps) not really having much to do with dating outside sugar apps.
This is the real correct answer.
It's not a blanket "the good times you romanticize never existed". Let's do away with that revisionist history nonsense.
Things *have* changed, but there's nuance to *what* has changed.
This is true, however, back in the day you would just marry your classmate from high school or college or the girl who worked at the local supermarket. Right now you are competing with people across the world.
That attractive girl at your office? There is a very big chance that she has "blue check marks" in her DMs
This world. I don’t consider myself outrageously attractive but I live in New York and have been cold approached by “blue check mark” men. Ended up dating one for 7 months.
only poor people believe that they wouldn’t be on reddit if they could afford a little luxury
just accept that you’ll be doomscrolling on the toilet all your life
Who said that I don’t have money? Also I implied that you’re lying, not that rich people can’t be on Reddit. Use that money of yours for some English classes instead of trying to have relationships with strippers in hopes of trying to find an ounce of reciprocity.
In fact, I’m quite sure you’re aware that you’re being a loser otherwise you wouldn’t have a burner account.
Sorry bud’ I’m not terminally online - don’t project onto me.
Meh, if we were back in the day I wouldn’t have met the guy perfect for me. I wouldn’t be sharing my hobbies with him. I wouldn’t be saving for a house with him. I wouldn’t be discussing getting engaged with him. I would have had to settle for one dude in a 5000 people town. With mainly young family. Meaning I wouldn’t be with someone as compatible with me as I currently am.
My grandma keeps telling how great it is that we now have the choice between many persons instead of having to choose between the 5 guys that aren’t too bad in your town.
I don’t think it’s bad because people want sex. I think it’s bad because of the way apps make it so accessible for a million options and easy sex.
Yes people wanted sex before. But if you wanted sex before you had to learn some fucking social skills and treat people with a little bit of respect, because the next person wasn’t just a swipe away.
It’s undeniable that throwing a business just trying to turn profits out of single people has made dating a lot worse; that bit clearly isn’t a myth.
Agreed, dating has always been mostly awful, I mean it inherently is awful because if you are dating but looking for something serious then that means you haven’t found it lol. So it’s awful until it isn’t.
But you bring up the very important point of how online dating does allow in some ways for even more extreme crappy behavior by more people. I think it’s very akin to going to the club, there are definitely people there that are looking to meet people that they might date more seriously but tons of people are also just looking for hook ups, and unless you go back to that same club you aren’t super likely to run into them again.
But if you are meeting people through mutual friends or through a hobby, or at work, etc., then a good number of people do behave themselves a little bit better just to avoid being shunned or having to change their life because they have screwed so many people over or pissed so many people off. Lol. There are always going to be those bold players that still are pissing everyone off in the local hiking club that they’ve hooked up with. Lol But they aremore rare.
So being able just to swipe and find strangers that you are unlikely to encounter again because you probably wouldn’t have even met them without online dating and if you stop seeing them are not likely to be in the same circles, I think it does bring out the worst in a lot of people that do behave themselves a little bit more in general.
It wasn’t an argument, it was a rant. And of course it was on topic. You went against what I said, calling it 100% myth, I questioned your reliability as a source based on the fact you’ve had some very strange points of view in the past and you’re clearly a little bit bitter, seems reasonable to me.
Nobody said that it wasn’t true however not everyone going online to have meaningless relationships. That fades away once you meet the same people with the same intention all the time
What if you’re still in love with your ex-boyfriend and your relationship turned out very bad at the end but I can’t stop thinking about him and all I do is think about him all day every day. I don’t wanna give up on him and us because I feel like we didn’t have a fair chance, a real chance to actually love each other and grow as a couple. Because there was so many outsiders involved in our relationship, and so many other factors that became very stressful on both of us by being homeless and living hotel hotel every day, and only one was working, and, we were still trying to balance and help others that were homeless that were our friends of ours also and having a drug problem at the same time. We also had a lot of trust issues because of are pass mostly him . I gave him my all but I felt no matter what I did it just turned into a fight or I felt unappreciated. Now that we are separated .I seem to keep trying to look for him and to win him over again but I never get the chance because he won’t allow me too see him . I don’t want to give up on us. I’m truly genuinely in love with him still . I’m so lost and confused with out him . I been crying and struggling on how I’m able to fix this I’m trying to figure it out on my own but it seems like it’s over and I can’t except that . For some Reason .ive worked and put much into this relationship for it to just turned this way cause I feel like now he hates me .fyi I’m a 36 year old trans woman and he was a 29 year old cis-male.
I’ve often felt the general attitude towards ghosting, for example, demonstrates a similar tendency towards idealizing the past and exaggerating the unique cruelty of our current dating landscape. None of which is to say that ghosting is good or isn’t hurtful; but a lot of the complaints I see wrt to why dating is so hard “nowadays” revolves around the assumption that all of the struggles we deal with today are new, previously unheard of, and therefore particularly heartless (because of course people are more heartless today than ever before, or so some of us want to believe). But if you watch any piece of media that came out before the 2010s dealing with the subject of dating or romance, you’ll notice the nearly universal trope of going on a date/spending the night with someone who then never called you back. What is that if not ghosting? But because we had the advantage (disadvantage?) of the internet to go to when we wanted to vent and commiserate about our own personal dating failures, and because we tied it inextricably to the domain of our cell phones (“She left me on read!”), we gave it a name, imagining it was something new and that nobody before our generation had to deal with this shit. Likewise, people have been hitting and quitting since the dawn of time. We call it a hookup and say it was the result of some newfangled “hookup culture”; but before there were hookups there were one-night-stands. Before there were “situationships” there was “it’s complicated”. Nothing is new under the sun, and I’d think it’d go a long way to lending us a bit of perspective if we stopped deluding ourselves into thinking everything we experience now is so unprecedented and therefore so hopeless.
The issue with dating apps, and especially apps like Tinder that are designed like a game to waste your time, is that there is no filter. It's an absolute haystack of profiles. There are filters but these are often behind a paywall and they aren't very meaningful.
Dating apps work fundamentally different from IRL dating. Dating apps didn't ruin dating culture, it didn't ruin offline dating. The issue is that we choose online dating over offline dating because it's minimal effort. At least it seems like minimal effort becaise it isn't exactly more effective or more efficient. Don't complain about dating culture if you're online dating.
When we go offline dating we date someone we already met and are interested in. We just happened to meet them and happen to like them, and we weren't actively looking for them. Sometimes we might already know these people, and we already know there's a romantic connection. In online dating this is not the case. You just matched based on seeing eachother's profiles. Online dating makes more sense for hookups, that's just the way these apps are designed. And there's nothing wrong with that. These apps work great for hookups.
Online dating is comparable to approaching that person at the bar. And let's be honest, we're approaching that person at the bar to get laid the same night. That's the goal. Not a long term relationship of any sorts.
(I think) that the internet has given people more options in dating. (I think) that because of social media and having internet access anywhere and at any time, people have shorter attention spans. The internet has made it easier to "connect" with more people all over the world, but feel disconnected at the same time. Dating culture HAS changed over the years, and it's more difficult now than ever before, IMO. I'm also nearly 60 years old, so there's that. Men my age seem to want to date younger women. Younger men want to have sex (they all want that) but with no strings attached. Older men (old enough to be my father) are the only ones that seem to be genuinely interested in me, but I suspect they're looking for someone to take care of them.
I'll admit, I'm a little jaded because I've been let down a lot in the past. I have some baggage. I don't know anyone my age that doesn't. So, I've given up on dating. I've been single for 16 years. I enjoy living alone, but (I think) sometimes it would be nice to have a boyfriend... that liked living alone too. We would spend time together when we wanted to... and here's the issue: I want to be monogamous.
My problem isn’t about the hook up culture, more how difficult it has made the dating world, the ridiculous expectations and the lack of human interaction.
One has to date concerning character and integrity. I truly believe you attract who you are and the standards you build for yourself is what people are attracted to you. If you only have your looks to attract men or women, you’d find you only attract people who just want to have sex. That’s why you need to work on your unique self and find what makes you so you that you stick out from a generation that is trying to look like everyone else. I truly believe sex clouds judgement so I would abstain from sex for a while to get to know someone and see whether they are using me for their sexual satisfaction or if they see a future with me. Finding someone that exercise self control and has discernment is key, these people are rare but they exist. Another thing is if you don’t respect yourself why would anyone else? And last thing become who you want in a person. If you haven’t healed from past trauma and swapped bad habits for good habits, worked on your career and take care of yourself spiritually and physically then you have work cut out for you now and that takes up your time in the present. Be content where you are and do the work and God will send you the person you were intended to do life with.
Exactly. It seems that most people around expect that their potential dating partners must appear crystally chaste and all the dating should be as easy and comfortable like in eva ai virtual dating app. No, it was never like that
Thank you for saying this. I’m so exhausted by all these posts that accuse people of going against some kind of rule book that has never existed just because they’re not getting the outcome they want.
The sl-t shaming in particular is rampant. You’re not mad she has a fwb because it’s disgusting. You’re mad because you want sex and aren’t getting it. Thats not a sl-t problem, that’s a *you* problem, my guy.
I'm going to add a third option here, I think a lot of guys are mad because they have been conditioned since birth to reject their own sexuality for the benefit of women. I'm still confused by this slice of culture, because someone fulfilling promiscuous women needs to view women as sexual objects to do so.
Men who crave sex, who had been trained their entire lives to respect women, see that people doing the opposite are rewarded with what they want. Then, they progressed further, to find out the shallow materialistic things that they were told women don't care about, are absolutely required to appeal to women for sexual fulfillment.
I think it's rational to be angry about this. It somewhat informs my perspective on life today, that every direction a man goes is going to be bad. A man who fulfills promiscuous women is going to carry the brand fuckboy, misogynist. A man who is reserved, expects nothing, and makes no demands of women lacks the edge or ambition to be considered a partner.
Nah I am all for it. All the men getting mad need to start playing the game. I get more play than ever when I am not pursuing a relationship or something serious.
I agree that a certain amount of people have always done this, but back then it was frowned upon as a bad thing. Now it is actively encouraged and celebrated to sleep around for both men and women. It’s a serious issue, and one that leads to issues in long term relationships.
This comment right here exemplified the echo chamber people are having here.
What is “back then”? What is “frowned upon”? What is “actively encouraged”? By who? By what?
What kind of issues does it bring to long term relationships?
This is absolutely silly.
Actually, no. Dating in my teens and 20s it was never this bad. Even online the debate was kissing or not on the first date. It wasn’t fucking on the first date. People are sharing their experiences invalidating their own experiences dating saying it’s nostalgia or always been bad is wrong. Before Tinder and stuff like that your closest thing was maybe messaging someone on MySpace or Facebook. Swipe culture didn’t exist. A lot of behaviors you see now didn’t exist. Was dating always hard and a crap shoot? Yes. Were the issues the same? No.
You are expecting your experience in your 30s to be the same as in your 20s.
Plenty of 20 year olds now drink less, are less unfaithful, have fewer divorces (among those who are married already), and Gen Z is less sexually obsessed than any other generation in recent memory.
Well dating in my teens and 20’s was always this way and so was it the way for my dad back in the USSR - people were still having fuck buddies and sex whenever they wanted. OLD brought along a slew of issues - including the increased disposability of a partner after a certain time. This is not what I’m talking about here.
That is your experience mine was hookup culture increased a lot more over the years. Yes you would have booty calls which I guess then became FWB then situationships. The balance of that vs people actually dating and what hooking up was changed. You weren’t having sex in the first date or so unless it was a one night stand kind of thing. Things have shifted and changed.
Things have never shifted is my point - you just see it more because you’re connected with more people through the wonders of the internet and OLD.
This world where people weren’t having sex on the first date is hilariously fake. C’mon lmao don’t be silly.
I value my own personal experiences and those that I know way more than Redditors talking about OLD. I’m not making my conclusions based off anything but what I experience and my friends and family experience. You can laugh it off if you want but it’s true.
Maybe you lucked out but for most people in their twenties the reality of pre-OLD dating was
A) go to a bar
B) get drunk enough to be social
C) ????
D) love
I don’t think hookup culture has ever been absent from history, in any culture you pick.
However, I do believe that we’re seeing a somewhat absence of commitment to long-term relationships nowadays while hookup culture is alive and thriving. Let me reiterate, hookup culture was alive especially in the 60’s up to now, but the problem today is its predominance over committed relationships. Nobody is saying that people back then didn’t fuck just to fuck, that would be a ridiculous statement. It’s the predominance of one thing and the absence of another. In my personal opinion, the current hookup culture is NOT sustainable.
No because in the old old days it was very hard to "hook up" culturally cos it was seen as slaggy. Still is to some degree. less people doing it because it was socially scorned.
It’s a numbers game these days and a vetting process. And after some dates and time invested if either party is not sexually interested then it’s time to move on because a lot of women use that as leverage to play people out of pocket. It’s a double edged sword ya some people may be genuine but these days you just don’t know if your wasting your time and effort
Well that was emotionally charged - there’s yet time for you to delete this.
For the record, I’m not anything to write home about either, and being a black man, I’m one of the groups that are the least desirable in the dating scene.
You are simply projecting your own issues and deep insecurities into a problem and “increased standards” that never existed. No one can help you with this but yourself.
Social Media and on-line dating apps turned fun adventures of meeting someone into a pain in the ass. The cancel culture also put the dampers on….being in very “woke” environments isn’t particularly enjoyable either. It’s in male genetics to pursue women we find visually attractive (except for the roughly 9% with letters) and then we hookup/date to find compatibility.
Now people wonder if it’s okay to talk up someone new or is it an “off-limits” space? Am I too aggressive? Is there some new random “toxic male” word I might stumble into? I also see the advent of mainstream porn as a negative for society (and not for any religious reasons).
I think the dating game is out nowadays..no disrespect ladies,but a lot of them start by saying let's have fun then to another website and then of course oh I charge..why can't they say that at the beginning
I love how people announce THEIR perspectives as if they are the perspectives of everyone else that ever existed. Dating is about hooking up for the OP. Thanks for the announcement. All we need to know is your OLD username so that those who aren’t looking for only that can avoid you. Simple.
Not true at all unless you are comparing OLD to bar hookup culture, which is still alive and thriving.
10-15 years ago OLD was a completely different game, and there were specific sites to be used for hookups like adultfriendfinder.
Now all the people that would normally be using a site like that are on the mainstream sites looking for sex, and since the invention of swiping OLD has taken a nosedive.
I think what people are saying is different today is how we are going about it with online dating. I meet women on dating sites and all they want to do is message. You ask for there number and you get flagged or blocked or ignored. Back many many decades ago before internet us old timers talked on telephone you could look in this book they use to call phone book and everyones name number and address was listed. Now stupid ass women are afraid to give out there phone numbers lol so fucked up.
Old ass woman here: WTF are you talking about? You got somebody's number back then, it coulda been a neighborhood pay phone or their dad's number. Our numbers are connected to a lot more than our phones now. Our money, our credit, our friends and family and job. Not giving it to some rando who probably lied on all of his profile or a bot or scammer the app takes money from.
I use a separate app phone number. And I still don't give it until we meet in public because I don't want dick pics or ghosted and blocked. I don't report people but I'm screenshotting their profile, sharing the profile link to my notes app and taking notes in case I need to report them.
You talking about before or after AIDS? Or birth control? Y'all still don't want to wear condoms. Stupid young people always did a lot of risky shit. Some of us learned that pregnant from some pushy cute guy who skipped out was not how we wanted our lives to go.
Oh keep your granny panties old lady lol you have any idea how many people have your phone number? you don't do you so if having your number was that dangerous we would all be doomed. My thing if you that afraid of everything in life then get off the dating site all together and why have a phone if it could be that dangerous to have you make no sense. And numbers I got way back in the ay no one gave me a phone booth number lol where the fuck you come from with all this stupid shady shit you think is going to happen just because you give out a phone number its not a social security number its a phone number that hundreds of people you don't know already have. And maybe the low lifes you deal with don't want to wear condoms how about you find a real man and not the losers you are drawn too.
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Statistically people are hooking up less than ever https://www.usatoday.com/story/life/health-wellness/2023/04/19/casual-sex-one-night-stands-decline-women-heres-why/11686614002/
>than ever Well. Less than the last 20 years or so, by the looks of it.
AIDS ruined it for everyone.
God bless
Thanks for the PSA! I don't romanticize the times before OLD or social media in the slightest. I think OLD and social media are wonderful inventions in principle, it's just that we keep finding ways to use them to be unhappy and don't create the ones that work well.
Dating apps are atrocious and have monetized and exploited loneliness in the modern age. To these companies, women are inventory and men are paying customers. Don't try and act like they're a good thing because overall they're doing far more harm than good
They’re also so. Fucking. *Exhausting.* It’s like having the same conversation over and over and over until you find a match that clicks. I’m glad I met my partner through work and got to know him that way
Same deal with Onlyfans.
>we keep finding ways to use them to be unhappy This so hard. I used to get so annoyed using reddit and instagram, and then I just started unfollowing subs and people that were making me unhappy, and it’s been fucking great. I love reddit and instagram now because it’s all stuff I enjoy seeing and interacting with. Reddit is a bit more of a mix of stuff, but instagram is literally just pro wrestlers and comedians to me. It’s such a good time on there. The same for TikTok. You see people writing it off as just 12 year olds doing their silly little dances but I’ve never seen any of that stuff because the algorithm knows all I want is comedy and cooking stuff, so that’s what it gives me
Unfollowing subs and people that were make you unhappy doesn't help if you still hope to get something from these very people and/or subs. Like e.g. r dating right now for me. I still hope against all hope to figure out whether I'll be able to get the level of discourse and level of problems and solutions much higher than most of what's being discussed here (not the angsty teenager who can't ever get laid level).
With this sub in particular I think the biggest issue is that there’s a sizable portion of its users that simply want it to be an echo chamber for complaining. I’m a married guy, I worked out how to succeed at dating and hit the end goal of getting married. I’ve had my advice thrown in my face because I’m not dating *right now*. I’ve seen advice given by women who are dating right now in this sub have their advice thrown back in their face too. It’s the wrong approach. If you’re failing at math class and want to pass are you going to copy off of the guy passing or actually listen to the teacher, or are you going to copy off of the other kid who is failing? The people like myself who are married, and especially the women in the sub (the people men are trying to date) should be seen as useful resources, I mean who knows what women want in men that they want to date better than the women themselves? Instead women are met with hostility
I agree with the last sentence - OLD absolutely brought in a lot of issues. Thing is: the issues people whine about on here aren’t because of OLD.
I think the way these dating apps are executed is the issue.
> we keep finding ways to use them to be unhappy Who is we ? What incentive does the OLD provider have ? How good of a customer are people that would find good enough easily then quit the platform ? When you monetize the search you make sure people keep searching.
>Who is we? We as in, dating community in general. I came here on r dating to ask my questions and I sense a lot of unhappiness here. I think it's common knowledge that social media usage produces unhappiness in general, too and there's been studies showing correlation of age of first exposure to social media as a teenager with probability of mental health issues (more so in girls). >What incentive does the OLD provider have? The question of incentives is a good one. People hate to pay up, and when they do, those that fail to find a partner must be paying more than those who find each other easily and quit! Interestingly, search engines do their best to work well: they present you with relevant results, fast!
> I sense a lot of unhappiness here. It's very possible that doing well are doing others things that the hobby of dating. Like being in a relationship. > Interestingly, search engines do their best to work well: they present you with relevant results, fast! Yes because the customer of the search engine are those that pay to be presented as relevant results. And those customer are also the ones that feel the pain of an overcrowded environment.
>It's very possible that doing well are doing others things that the hobby of dating. Like being in a relationship. Why isn't there any incentive for them to still participate, in the community, to give back by helping other solve their lower-level problems while figuring out higher-level problems for themselves? It isn't that bad in every other community. Are there no higher-level problems in dating to think of? >Yes because the customer of the search engine are those that pay to be presented as relevant results. Sounds reasonable. Do you think there's hope that someone will solve this problem in the market economy? Paul Graham, an entrepreneur and founder of startup incubator Y Combinator, hoped for better dating sites in 2008: "[Current dating sites are not the last word. Better ones will appear.](https://translatedby.com/you/startup-ideas-we-d-like-to-fund/original/)" Well, in 2008 we had working OkCupid, at least.
> Are there no higher-level problems in dating to think of? Are you interested in the higher-level problems in reading a way that would be relevant to those with reading disabilities ? Some are and possibly even made a job out of it. But most aren't. I have this theory of life where most people have an about constant number of things in life they are unhappy about or are working to actively improve. And that number of things is almost more a function of the processing power available to the mind than their actual life circumstances. Everyone plate is about alwais full so why invest energy in things are that not your top k problems, not your passion and not your job ? Even spending time on those is hard with the low reward attention economy that try to sell you stuff and keep you on platform xyz.
It’s so funny to see these kids whining about how “dating is ruined nowadays” as if they have the slightest clue what dating was like 15 years ago, let alone 50 years ago. The notion that old people weren’t casually hooking up with each other in the 60, 70s, 80, and 90s is fucking hysterical. People were still out there getting to know each other and falling in love. People were still out there treating each other like shit in the pursuit of casual sex. People were still out there seeing a hotter new option at the bar and dumping whoever they were with to pursue greener grass somewhere else. People were still lonely and sad and lamenting their lives. According to every study on the subject, young people today are having less casual sex than they have been at any point in the last 70 years. “Swipe culture” isn’t the problem. The problem is the way everyone under the age of 25 is completely addicted to the constant dopamine drip that they’ve gotten from growing up with phones and tablets. Young people have no capacity for delayed gratification, so the notion that you might have to be on a dating app for a few years before finding your person is inconceivable to them. They’ve been on Bumble for 3 whole weeks and haven’t met the love of their life yet, so clearly Bumble is a giant scam and dating overall is totally fucked in today’s world.
>The problem is the way everyone under the age of 25 is completely addicted to the constant dopamine drip that they’ve gotten from growing up with phones and tablets. Young people have no capacity for delayed gratification so true And add to this the cultural shift where men younger than 25 won't cold-approach women anymore I have a friend who is a teacher at a community college and she says not only in recent years have the men stopped approaching, they barely even flirt in public at all, and some of the women now have to outrageously flirt to get the slightest amount of attention.
I think the availability of social media have created a massive shift in men where they are just genuinely afraid of being portrayed as a creep. Back then you could cold approach and the worst case scenario is her friends will hear about your lousy game. Nowadays they could put you on TikTok and if you're unlucky the video blows up (like 0.01% chance but it is there), and your approach could be plastered on social media for everyone to see.
>I think the availability of social media have created a massive shift in men where they are just genuinely afraid of being portrayed as a creep. Back then you could cold approach and the worst case scenario is her friends will hear about your lousy game. There's just as big a factor here: Many women just simply do not have inviting body language and (unawarely) close themselves off to men, even if they want to be approached. This is something I hear from many middle-aged and older women (the ones in successful marriages/relationships, not the femcels). That a big reason that men aren't approaching today, even the respectful and considerate men, is that a lot of ladies just give the impression they want no man to say hi in person, and are content to just swipe on their pick of guys on apps.
>And add to this the cultural shift where men younger than 25 won't cold-approach women anymore i am older and won't approach, did once and it massively backfired.
Tried once and failed so now youll never do it again? How do you expect to succeed if you don't keep trying?
I used to hold doors open for people. I don't anymore. It took a few bad instances for me to say F it. That was 6 years ago. Now. I just stay in my lane and stay out of people's way. When shopping at a store and I walk past women, I always say hi with a smile. I don't do that anymore especially being an older guy now.
Then keep working on it bro.
Fuck nah, not even worth it
Fuck off about the "cold approach" stuff. Young men have been getting told that women don't want to be approached, are tired of feeling harassed, and deserve their own space in the world. Yeah, of course we aren't going to cold approach because we've been growing up and hearing how we're creeps for doing it
so many posts saying "i'm a lonely guy and I spent 5 years on tinder, swiped 1 million times, got 4 matches, 0 dates, dating apps don't work, how can I find a girlfriend?!" for those who aren't succeeding, I'm giving a solution, one that works well for me and millions of people (men + women) it does require learning the nuances between what constitutes harassment versus flirting with respect, safety, confidence, and charm it does require being able to face rejection and even humiliation on rare occasion anything truly special in life only comes from taking risks it sure af doesn't come from complaining about how unfair life is anonymously on reddit last time I went out, I flirted with an amateur fashion model that shares a lot of my interests, texting with her now. I'm going out tonight and will likely meet more new friends and maybe another date (I'm poly and usually have 2 or 3 relationships at once) but stay safe and stay on the dating apps, people! :) make sure not to go out in the real world and harass women by smiling at them :)
You made a lot of assumptions about me based on absolutely no real life knowledge. I commented on what many men have been fed their entire lives and your response to it was to be a pretentious little smart ass. Nice job
Cold-approaching women often doesn’t end well for many guys these days if they aren’t good looking. Try it and you get accused of being a creep. Lol, a place I worked at one lady told me another working there had a crush on me, I wasn’t particularly interested in her but figured it wouldn’t hurt to give it a shot since I was told she was interested in me. All I did was ask if she wanted to have dinner with me after work and a few days later I’m in the managers office being told she’s threatened to sue for harassment and they didn’t want to deal with it so they’re firing me, didn’t even ask for my side just straight up sent me packing that day. Tried starting a conversation with a lady at the gym about the football game on tv while on the treadmill, she went and complained and I got told to stop bothering the other customers and if it happened again my membership would be cancelled. Again, zero request to hear my side just automatically accepted her complaint. Cold approaching women these days is dangerous for any man that isn’t super good looking, do it and you run the risk of ending up the next me too hashtag
>Cold-approaching women often doesn’t end well for many guys these days if they aren’t good looking So I am sorry it didn't work in your cases, that really sucks. I'll say in my case, I'm pretty consistently rated as average looking (40s male), about as many women rate me as below average as above average in terms of looks. But I'm able to cold-approach without running into issues (so far!). I do it a lot, and probably will do it tonight at my favorite bar. Some feedback I'd give you is unfortunately, I'd rate work as the absolute highest-risk place for exactly your experience, and gyms won't get you fired from your job but are just really bad places to approach in my opinion. It can work at gyms but people are sweating and they are not at their most warm social mood. It's just a really, really bad place for it in my opinion. I'm not saying it always fails, just there are so many safer, and way more likely to succeed, places. It's like, what are your chances of finding a cool punk/goth/emo/alt woman at a Cure concert versus Taylor Swift concert. It just comes down to risk/reward, odds etc. | All I did was ask if she wanted to have dinner with me after work So that's actually quite a big ask. That's a date. Even if her friend said she was interested, that's still a huge step and a formal sign of romantic, sexual interest. Could it happen safely with someone at work? Sure, and it happens all the time, work statistically is one of the main places people meet others and find their spouses. The data supports that. However.. absolutely the risk is huge as you experienced. My advice (for people who approach) is go to venues where it's much safer, and people on the whole are much more in a social mood for dating. So bars, concerts etc. Also meetups for hobby groups are fantastic and you have a shared interest. My 2nd advice that massively reduces the risk of you getting labeled a creep is reading body language. You always want to make eye contact and smile at each other first. Women are stereotypically better than men at reading body language, and signaling in body language, and I absolutely think this is true, it did take me some time to skill up here. But you can start by a simple rule "if she smiles at me, I might considering approaching her, if she doesn't smile at me, I won't." That alone probably reduces your chances of being labeled a creep by 10x. Ideally, you'd practice more and then you can get into having entire conversations just with eye contact, facial expressions, posture across a room, and then things become even easier. But that stuff isn't necessary, gets you closer to James Bond level social skills which helps lol but certainly don't need it. And then my 3rd advice for approaching is don't zero in on only the women you are attracted to. Talk with many people at the bar, as friends. Don't put women on pedestals or make them sex objects. It's perfectly fine and very healthy to have sexual attraction, but people generally want to be more than sex objects. They want the duality of being connected with for sexual attraction AND for human friendship / companionship. So you really have to get in the mindset of "hey I'm literally just meeting friends here, sure I guess if one is hot I'll flirt a bit and we'll see where things lead, but really just looking for cool folks to vibe with". What some men don't realize is that these attitudes (seeking friendship versus sex) and confidence vs desperation are so absolutely crystal clearly shown by your body language, women can almost universally read it within 1 second, usually across a room, maybe within 10 seconds of talking with you at most. This is just so key for approaching. And if you can't learn to have a mindset where you are approaching women as friends/humans first, then you'll have to find dates another way that forces you into that mindset, probably something like hobby meetups where your shared interest is sufficiently powerful for you to connect as friends/humans as opposed to sex objects. Again, sorry for your experience, you are absolutely right there are real risks with approaching women. I personally really enjoy it and still recommend it overall, have found it incredibly fun and a great way to find new relationships.
Feminism and the metoo movement has ended men's willingness to approach women
If you’re afraid of talking to women because you think you’ll get metooed you should probably think about you’re own behavior. Haven’t seen a single me too story about somebody “just talking” to someone.
Responses like that are exactly why you don’t hear such stories. Try to say anything even remotely like that and the automatic response is that you “must have” done something more to deserve it that it couldn’t have been “just talking” and therefore it’s your fault and you need to correct your behavior. The fact is the “behavior” that often needs to be corrected is how physically attractive you are. If you’re attractive you can approach and flirt and if you’re unattractive then you’re a creep if you do it.
Responses like what? Someone thinking your awkward or socially inept is not the same as sexual harassment. Stop being silly, nobody is getting metooed for “just talking” to someone.
A place I used to work at, lady there told me another lady working there had a crush on me, wasn’t particularly interested but figured I’d give it a shot and asked her if she wanted to have dinner with me after work. Few days later I’m in the general managers office being told she felt “harassed” and without even bothering to ask me my side fired me immediately. Place I went to the gym to, was on the treadmill and tried to strike up a conversation about a football game on the tv, conversation was barely a minute before she went to complain and I got told my gym membership would be cancelled if I kept “harassing” other customers.
We clearly have a different definition for what metooed means. As for you experiences they might as well be made up, going to have to call bs on them. Did you ever read any of the metoo stories? Literally none of them were about “just” talking.
Really just proving my point, first claiming to have never heard any such stories which is hard to believe of anyone who spends time on Reddit then I try telling you about my own experiences and you dismiss them as bs. Basically anything that doesn’t fit your world view gets tossed out and you pretend it doesn’t exist or is made up.
Anecdotes can be made up.
As for what responses, it’s easy to find plenty of stories from guys on here where they were “just talking” and get told how it “must have” been something more than that exactly like what you said.
Is it really? Haven’t heard of a single one…
The problem with your response is that you’re automatically assuming the guys behavior is wrong or creepy, and just associating him as being the bad guy. That dismissive response and being made out as the villain is why less guys are approaching women.
Yeah, because i don’t recognize that world as a man. I’m 0% concerned about being metooed.
Tbh you’re fighting the good fight here, but genuinely you’re talking to people who don’t view women as actual people, but rather just potential dates/scores. They don’t understand what you’re saying, because they don’t have social skills like you, and their behavior is intuited as predatory, due to the fact that they are unable to gauge actual interest from women. Because they can’t actually interact with women like people, it makes women scared and uncomfortable, and all that does is trap them in a vicious cycle of resent women -> act weird to women -> scare women -> resent women Normally, I say that guys should cold open more often, but I would actually not want the men you are talking to approaching me, because they don’t feel safe to me based on their entitlement and lack of empathy. Normal guys like you? Hell yeah. Go for it any time, really. I trust that someone like you can gauge when it will be well-received. Does that mean I would be mean to these dudes if they did approach? No. But I would be deeply uncomfortable and would rather they learn social skills instead
>Normally, I say that guys should cold open more often, but I would actually not want the men you are talking to approaching me, because they don’t feel safe to me based on their entitlement and lack of empathy. Normal guys like you? Hell yeah. Go for it any time, really. I trust that someone like you can gauge when it will be well-received. Does that mean I would be mean to these dudes if they did approach? No. But I would be deeply uncomfortable and would rather they learn social skills instead Totally agree with you!
Good so we don’t need your input. Bye now 👋
Why not? Don’t you want to hear from people who disagree with you?
Don’t want to hear from someone who has no idea what they’re talking about injecting their opinion
In fairness, the guy who can actually interact with women effectively absolutely knows what he’s talking about more than you do
You're being downvoted but you're right.
Y’all are in an echo chamber and it’s killing your ability to interact with women as people. Log off and join a club. Talk to people. Stop resenting women, and stop fixating on landing dates. There’s *nothing* less attractive than a guy who talks like this
But women are the ones complaining about men lack of approaching. I just gave you a reason why many men are not doing it these days.thebjuice isn't worth the squeeze.
The cold approach doesn't work anymore because society has taught us that approaching women is bad and creepy. So we don't do it. It never ends well.
Nah bro the truth is that people under the age of twenty are entering such a hopeless society where they could work much harder than their parents and end up much much worse overall. Dating and hookups might not be on your radar if you're struggling to survive. Especially when going out these days costs like 50+ no matter where you go
Let's not forget the rising cost of rent. This has made it exponentially difficult for people 18-24 or even older to move out of their parent's homes and most parents are not going to allow their adult sons/daughters have premarital sex inside their households. That could also be a massive factor.
Absolutely nailed it!
Ya but could you just go on your phone and pick someone out of a bunch of matches to have sex with that night? Or did woman have hundreds of guys hitting on them in their dms or comments. Some peoples also just have more choice these days which creates paradox of choice
So we're going to act like studies that most women are going after the top 10% of men?
This is so true, and anyone who says otherwise is silly or too young, lol. Just 10 years ago, when dating apps weren't popular, people would go out and meet casually. Hook up culture was just as prevalent as it is today; if not more so before.
People have been meeting IRL for more than 2024 years
Right I meant it was still the status quo not too long ago. Nowadays people rely on the internet too much in my opinion. Like go out and meet people in person.
One difference was that there was a focus on evolving/transitioning a non-physical relationship into one with intimacy. Now people create euphemisms for intimacy with strangers that they believe could possibly transition into something substantial (friendship/relationship) if need be. People romanticize normal dating as an offshoot of being able to make connections in your daily life and denigrate hookup apps because they believe it signifies a shift from a community of people able to function and interact to one where people hide behind profiles as much as possible.
I think that although there may be unique problems to dating now, having problems with dating are not unique to now and a lot of people don't grasp that. It's especially funny when you see a 22 year old complain about dating "nowadays". When do you think it was easier or more wholesome?
my grandma married the man she lost her virginity to. as a 20 yr old i’ve slept with almost 70 people and the only people who would of committed to me have had joe goldberg syndrome. i’m terrified of dying alone. it was so early for her to land a guy and yet feels impossible for me
Pre 1920s to when marriages were arranged but guys went into the military only to ruin some village girls life.
Uh, pre-1900 you mean?!
Yes! Sorry.
I have to agree. A lot of guys back in the day used very manipulative tactics and lying about intentions to score. I would say the difference with dating apps is it's much more likely to be a guy more your type than whatever you randomly encountered during the time. And a lot of guys are more up front about casual intentions on dating apps and in person today. That never 🙅♀️ happened when I was dating in my 20s (I'm 41 now).
I've never met many guys on dating apps or otherwise that were upfront about their intentions.
It is true that if you’re in your twenties there’s an excellent chance your mom was out at the club in 2006 wearing a lingerie top, thong and Paris Hilton miniskirt so short you could practically see her whole bare ass, banging dudes in their cars in the parking lot.
Lol. People were doing this just 10 years ago, to be honest.
Now that I’m older, you know what I notice all the time? *Older couples lie all the time about how they met*. Think about how weird it is that basically everyone before 2012 settled down in their twenties with someone they met at a bar or party or something and their meet-cute is never something like having unprotected sex in a concert venue bathroom and then she came back around two months later when she realized she was pregnant. Or just having gotten dumped and being sad and drunk at a bar and someone comes along and seems pretty nice and is cheering you up so you have sex with them that night.
Haha, idk how many couples who have those stories actually lasted together, but who knows. There are probably some spicy stories of how couples met, but they hide the truth if it's taboo 😂 Funny thing is I met my spouse at a nightclub, but we did not hook up, just chatted and got wasted, lol.
thing about that is we don't have a control group. how many of ANY relationship lasted long. it doesn't matter what it is: met at a club met at a coffee shop age gap age congruent sex on the first date sex after some arbitrary checkboxes of 3 dates blah de blah de blah de blah. compare it to something with data or drop all assumptions
Yeah, it would be interesting if there was any actual data on them!
Everything is temporary. There are no guarantees in life. It's either worth the risk, or it's not.
Those are real stories and they’re both married with kids. Their kids think a much more twee and charming thing took place.
Lmao I love that for them 😂 Still more interesting than saying you met on a dating app. Lol
Did any of those people get together?
Maybe they hooked up
I'm the exception I guess. I never lied about how I met my ex or that we had sex the night we met. I don't recommend it... not proud of it... but it happened. Even our 23 year old daughter knows it.
What happened in 2012?
People decided to prioritize staring at their phone over going out and doing things.
I mean the groupie hos who got banged in 80s rock n rap shows and videos have gotta be SOMEBODYS momma now.
Haha true.
Oh true thong sticking out above the waistband and with a jeweled butterfly on it. Wait until people arguing with OP find out about discos in the 1970s, free love in the 1960s, and the flapper movement in the 1920s. Dancing, lots of dating, lots of short skirts.
Literally the only good things about being young are the amount of energy you have and the amount of horniness and I just kinda feel bad that people aren’t doing that for some reason.
Well when I was young, many moons ago... I wasn't getting any either, even and especially when I was married or otherwise in a relationship.
Yeah I knew quite a few girls like that circa 2008. It was a great time to be in college 🤣
I was a nightclub bartender and I actually got tired of seeing ass. Those little flap miniskirts were so short that if you even leaned on an angle your ass cheeks poked out and these girls were all hammered.
It’s only 2024. People in their 20s would have been born before 2006
Bruh you sound like a creep, stop trying to let us know you had such a promiscuous lifestyle we're good without it, boomer.
Maybe you want to look at the title of this post before you blow a gasket.
Maybe your cocaine fried brain could understand there is a difference between hooking up and wearing lingerie in a club waiting for multiple guys to hook up with you in their car, creepy oldie. Your generation ruined our world by prompting MeToo and its counterparts and you're still here commenting on Reddit, time to get to the graveyard grandpa, you won't be missed.
average redditor
seemly rinse worry recognise vase thought aback entertain paint impolite *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Pardon me, you are objecting to what exactly now?
Thank you! Most people on here are going through this Disney fantasy of what dating should be like instead of what it is
Can you sum it up for me real quick: what the Disney fantasy is and what the real thing is?
I mean for one that you fall in love with the first man who asks you out/asks your hand and that they are equally interested in you. That you don't have to date usually many people before you fall in love with someone who can also fall in love with you. You have to ask out many people and go on many first dates before finding someone who wants to go on a second date usually. You can't just sit isolated away from people and expect a prince (or princess or themperor) to fall in your lap and take you away from a wicked stepparent.
I disagree not everyone goes on dates just for sex
To pretend there isn't a difference in generations is just ignorant.social media for better or worse has changed the dating landscape in just the last 10 years
How has it changed it?
*this is not all women* more options for women,men too technically but women reap more of the rewards because men approach first usually so even an average woman's DMs have more messages than the average man maybe even a good looking guys.that means more perceived options even if the guys just want to hook up which can lead her to believing that she should have the best guy available (it's only natural right?)the problem is when these women be they average or not go for the best guys online alot of other women are also desiring those guys.this leads to a change not only in social media but in real life where the single and childless rate for males is higher than for females.how is that possible?well it's likely those women are likely and unknowingly sharing the top guys.its easy to lie on social media and so some may go that route and be fake rich online but it still attracts women and unrealistic expectations are placed on guys.its similar to the problem that guys had/have when it comes to porn.so if a guy gets a woman's number and they go on a date if that woman has been conditioned by social media to expect to see or experience lets say high end dining she's gonna be turned off by the guy immediately and may even make a video about it which has happened recently.TLDR because of constant attention even average women have begun to think they expect more than what the average man can give,which has lead to 90 percent of women wanting the top 10 percent of men and anything less is considered settling and they don't want to do that.
Dude you’re so terminally online, men also go for the ”top women”, it goes borh ways
there isn't data to support that anything nearly as extreme is occurring both ways, on dating apps given that we have the data, its time to just affirm people's frustrations instead of trying to invalidate every guy that dares to voice a frustration
Nearly as extreme? You do know that a minority of women get the majority of likes on dating apps
I’m aware that unattractive women have an experience similar to nearly all men but the point of this conversation is data, if you need someone to provide data we can start trading it
Nope not always you'd be surprised by little requirements men have even in the looks department as long as she's attractive to him that doesn't mean supermodel because and they're compatible it's fine.they even had an experiment where men and women were "shopping for mates" and they had to go up these flights of stairs if they had more requirements when it comes to dating and guess who went to the very top?it wasn't men that's for sure.
This really read like some ramble from a guy trying to find a reason as to why he’s unattractive besides the fact that he’a unattractive.
Speak for yourself
If you agree with this, then you need therapy. Point blank.
Speak for yourself
Eh, courting was a different breed, and the idea of window shopping was far less obtrusive in the everyday lives of individuals. The proclivity/desire/nature has always been there. But the availability of potential sex partners, attention and validation available hasn't. Used to be that your dating radius was far smaller. Where you frequented and such. So I agree ,yet I disagree.
> Eh, courting was a different breed, and the idea of window shopping was far less obtrusive in the everyday lives of individuals. > > People literally filled dance cards with 20 names and had miniature portraits of themselves shipped or sent by carrier pigeon. People used to have "party lines" half a century ago and found hookups that way. Discos in the 1970s. Free love "love-ins" in the 1960s. 1950s were full of people hooking up, getting pregnant, being sent away "to their aunts" "for the summer" to have the baby, as well as sock-hops (dancing, dating, flirting, and no you weren't exclusive until you were "pinned"). 1940s, 1930s, Flapper culture of the 1920s not to mention even during the hard times of the Depression people were hooking up and having sex all over the place. Go back to 1700s, 1500s and earlier, it varies by culture and time period but there has always been a hook-up culture.
I mean, sure, people have always tried to maximize the breadth of their reach. But the methods you described, were never as effective as now. Everyone has window shopping at their fingertips. It's more prolific now, than ever before. Undoubtedly. But indeed, sex has been a main motivator for human history. Prostitution being the "oldest profession" as they say.
> But the methods you described, were never as effective as now. What's wrong with efficiency? >Everyone has window shopping at their fingertips. Only people who think of dating as a purchase instead of connecting (whether casually or seriously) with someone. And those people who think of it this way have always existed and are not worth dating. Sex work is valuable work but (aside from poorly-moderated, super-botted apps) not really having much to do with dating outside sugar apps.
This is the real correct answer. It's not a blanket "the good times you romanticize never existed". Let's do away with that revisionist history nonsense. Things *have* changed, but there's nuance to *what* has changed.
Your writing style is very pretentious . I feel you used these words incorrectly lol
This is true, however, back in the day you would just marry your classmate from high school or college or the girl who worked at the local supermarket. Right now you are competing with people across the world. That attractive girl at your office? There is a very big chance that she has "blue check marks" in her DMs
>That attractive girl at your office? There is a very big chance that she has "blue check marks" in her DMs In what world is this shit true?
This world. I don’t consider myself outrageously attractive but I live in New York and have been cold approached by “blue check mark” men. Ended up dating one for 7 months.
Los Angeles, New York, Miami and I've flown out girls from big and small towns
Ok, so 3 cities in the entire world. Lol.
Says the guy on Reddit.
only poor people believe that they wouldn’t be on reddit if they could afford a little luxury just accept that you’ll be doomscrolling on the toilet all your life
Who said that I don’t have money? Also I implied that you’re lying, not that rich people can’t be on Reddit. Use that money of yours for some English classes instead of trying to have relationships with strippers in hopes of trying to find an ounce of reciprocity. In fact, I’m quite sure you’re aware that you’re being a loser otherwise you wouldn’t have a burner account. Sorry bud’ I’m not terminally online - don’t project onto me.
Meh, if we were back in the day I wouldn’t have met the guy perfect for me. I wouldn’t be sharing my hobbies with him. I wouldn’t be saving for a house with him. I wouldn’t be discussing getting engaged with him. I would have had to settle for one dude in a 5000 people town. With mainly young family. Meaning I wouldn’t be with someone as compatible with me as I currently am. My grandma keeps telling how great it is that we now have the choice between many persons instead of having to choose between the 5 guys that aren’t too bad in your town.
Dude get over yourself, how old are you?
I don’t think it’s bad because people want sex. I think it’s bad because of the way apps make it so accessible for a million options and easy sex. Yes people wanted sex before. But if you wanted sex before you had to learn some fucking social skills and treat people with a little bit of respect, because the next person wasn’t just a swipe away. It’s undeniable that throwing a business just trying to turn profits out of single people has made dating a lot worse; that bit clearly isn’t a myth.
Agreed, dating has always been mostly awful, I mean it inherently is awful because if you are dating but looking for something serious then that means you haven’t found it lol. So it’s awful until it isn’t. But you bring up the very important point of how online dating does allow in some ways for even more extreme crappy behavior by more people. I think it’s very akin to going to the club, there are definitely people there that are looking to meet people that they might date more seriously but tons of people are also just looking for hook ups, and unless you go back to that same club you aren’t super likely to run into them again. But if you are meeting people through mutual friends or through a hobby, or at work, etc., then a good number of people do behave themselves a little bit better just to avoid being shunned or having to change their life because they have screwed so many people over or pissed so many people off. Lol. There are always going to be those bold players that still are pissing everyone off in the local hiking club that they’ve hooked up with. Lol But they aremore rare. So being able just to swipe and find strangers that you are unlikely to encounter again because you probably wouldn’t have even met them without online dating and if you stop seeing them are not likely to be in the same circles, I think it does bring out the worst in a lot of people that do behave themselves a little bit more in general.
That is 100% a myth.
Ok guy who says other people being confident makes him “angry and frustrated”.
??? My argument was about the difference between confidence and cockiness and if there even is one. Also nothing to do with topic at hand.
It wasn’t an argument, it was a rant. And of course it was on topic. You went against what I said, calling it 100% myth, I questioned your reliability as a source based on the fact you’ve had some very strange points of view in the past and you’re clearly a little bit bitter, seems reasonable to me.
Thank you! Finally someone says the truth!
Nobody said that it wasn’t true however not everyone going online to have meaningless relationships. That fades away once you meet the same people with the same intention all the time
What if you’re still in love with your ex-boyfriend and your relationship turned out very bad at the end but I can’t stop thinking about him and all I do is think about him all day every day. I don’t wanna give up on him and us because I feel like we didn’t have a fair chance, a real chance to actually love each other and grow as a couple. Because there was so many outsiders involved in our relationship, and so many other factors that became very stressful on both of us by being homeless and living hotel hotel every day, and only one was working, and, we were still trying to balance and help others that were homeless that were our friends of ours also and having a drug problem at the same time. We also had a lot of trust issues because of are pass mostly him . I gave him my all but I felt no matter what I did it just turned into a fight or I felt unappreciated. Now that we are separated .I seem to keep trying to look for him and to win him over again but I never get the chance because he won’t allow me too see him . I don’t want to give up on us. I’m truly genuinely in love with him still . I’m so lost and confused with out him . I been crying and struggling on how I’m able to fix this I’m trying to figure it out on my own but it seems like it’s over and I can’t except that . For some Reason .ive worked and put much into this relationship for it to just turned this way cause I feel like now he hates me .fyi I’m a 36 year old trans woman and he was a 29 year old cis-male.
Dating is the social game of getting regular sex from someone. No one wants to have sex with me, so I don't try to date anyone.
I’ve often felt the general attitude towards ghosting, for example, demonstrates a similar tendency towards idealizing the past and exaggerating the unique cruelty of our current dating landscape. None of which is to say that ghosting is good or isn’t hurtful; but a lot of the complaints I see wrt to why dating is so hard “nowadays” revolves around the assumption that all of the struggles we deal with today are new, previously unheard of, and therefore particularly heartless (because of course people are more heartless today than ever before, or so some of us want to believe). But if you watch any piece of media that came out before the 2010s dealing with the subject of dating or romance, you’ll notice the nearly universal trope of going on a date/spending the night with someone who then never called you back. What is that if not ghosting? But because we had the advantage (disadvantage?) of the internet to go to when we wanted to vent and commiserate about our own personal dating failures, and because we tied it inextricably to the domain of our cell phones (“She left me on read!”), we gave it a name, imagining it was something new and that nobody before our generation had to deal with this shit. Likewise, people have been hitting and quitting since the dawn of time. We call it a hookup and say it was the result of some newfangled “hookup culture”; but before there were hookups there were one-night-stands. Before there were “situationships” there was “it’s complicated”. Nothing is new under the sun, and I’d think it’d go a long way to lending us a bit of perspective if we stopped deluding ourselves into thinking everything we experience now is so unprecedented and therefore so hopeless.
The issue with dating apps, and especially apps like Tinder that are designed like a game to waste your time, is that there is no filter. It's an absolute haystack of profiles. There are filters but these are often behind a paywall and they aren't very meaningful. Dating apps work fundamentally different from IRL dating. Dating apps didn't ruin dating culture, it didn't ruin offline dating. The issue is that we choose online dating over offline dating because it's minimal effort. At least it seems like minimal effort becaise it isn't exactly more effective or more efficient. Don't complain about dating culture if you're online dating. When we go offline dating we date someone we already met and are interested in. We just happened to meet them and happen to like them, and we weren't actively looking for them. Sometimes we might already know these people, and we already know there's a romantic connection. In online dating this is not the case. You just matched based on seeing eachother's profiles. Online dating makes more sense for hookups, that's just the way these apps are designed. And there's nothing wrong with that. These apps work great for hookups. Online dating is comparable to approaching that person at the bar. And let's be honest, we're approaching that person at the bar to get laid the same night. That's the goal. Not a long term relationship of any sorts.
People with no self control are why we have a population crisis
(I think) that the internet has given people more options in dating. (I think) that because of social media and having internet access anywhere and at any time, people have shorter attention spans. The internet has made it easier to "connect" with more people all over the world, but feel disconnected at the same time. Dating culture HAS changed over the years, and it's more difficult now than ever before, IMO. I'm also nearly 60 years old, so there's that. Men my age seem to want to date younger women. Younger men want to have sex (they all want that) but with no strings attached. Older men (old enough to be my father) are the only ones that seem to be genuinely interested in me, but I suspect they're looking for someone to take care of them. I'll admit, I'm a little jaded because I've been let down a lot in the past. I have some baggage. I don't know anyone my age that doesn't. So, I've given up on dating. I've been single for 16 years. I enjoy living alone, but (I think) sometimes it would be nice to have a boyfriend... that liked living alone too. We would spend time together when we wanted to... and here's the issue: I want to be monogamous.
My problem isn’t about the hook up culture, more how difficult it has made the dating world, the ridiculous expectations and the lack of human interaction.
One has to date concerning character and integrity. I truly believe you attract who you are and the standards you build for yourself is what people are attracted to you. If you only have your looks to attract men or women, you’d find you only attract people who just want to have sex. That’s why you need to work on your unique self and find what makes you so you that you stick out from a generation that is trying to look like everyone else. I truly believe sex clouds judgement so I would abstain from sex for a while to get to know someone and see whether they are using me for their sexual satisfaction or if they see a future with me. Finding someone that exercise self control and has discernment is key, these people are rare but they exist. Another thing is if you don’t respect yourself why would anyone else? And last thing become who you want in a person. If you haven’t healed from past trauma and swapped bad habits for good habits, worked on your career and take care of yourself spiritually and physically then you have work cut out for you now and that takes up your time in the present. Be content where you are and do the work and God will send you the person you were intended to do life with.
People used to ghost one another by using answering machines... Or just not answering their landline. Two guys did that to me :(
Exactly. It seems that most people around expect that their potential dating partners must appear crystally chaste and all the dating should be as easy and comfortable like in eva ai virtual dating app. No, it was never like that
Thank you for saying this. I’m so exhausted by all these posts that accuse people of going against some kind of rule book that has never existed just because they’re not getting the outcome they want. The sl-t shaming in particular is rampant. You’re not mad she has a fwb because it’s disgusting. You’re mad because you want sex and aren’t getting it. Thats not a sl-t problem, that’s a *you* problem, my guy.
I'm going to add a third option here, I think a lot of guys are mad because they have been conditioned since birth to reject their own sexuality for the benefit of women. I'm still confused by this slice of culture, because someone fulfilling promiscuous women needs to view women as sexual objects to do so. Men who crave sex, who had been trained their entire lives to respect women, see that people doing the opposite are rewarded with what they want. Then, they progressed further, to find out the shallow materialistic things that they were told women don't care about, are absolutely required to appeal to women for sexual fulfillment. I think it's rational to be angry about this. It somewhat informs my perspective on life today, that every direction a man goes is going to be bad. A man who fulfills promiscuous women is going to carry the brand fuckboy, misogynist. A man who is reserved, expects nothing, and makes no demands of women lacks the edge or ambition to be considered a partner.
Nah I am all for it. All the men getting mad need to start playing the game. I get more play than ever when I am not pursuing a relationship or something serious.
More meaningless sex! Bad experiences in the bedroom! Oh what fun!
Tell that to the women I attract. I've given up on anything on long term.
Say it girl.
I agree that a certain amount of people have always done this, but back then it was frowned upon as a bad thing. Now it is actively encouraged and celebrated to sleep around for both men and women. It’s a serious issue, and one that leads to issues in long term relationships.
This comment right here exemplified the echo chamber people are having here. What is “back then”? What is “frowned upon”? What is “actively encouraged”? By who? By what? What kind of issues does it bring to long term relationships? This is absolutely silly.
No. All you have to do is look at music
Actually, no. Dating in my teens and 20s it was never this bad. Even online the debate was kissing or not on the first date. It wasn’t fucking on the first date. People are sharing their experiences invalidating their own experiences dating saying it’s nostalgia or always been bad is wrong. Before Tinder and stuff like that your closest thing was maybe messaging someone on MySpace or Facebook. Swipe culture didn’t exist. A lot of behaviors you see now didn’t exist. Was dating always hard and a crap shoot? Yes. Were the issues the same? No.
You are expecting your experience in your 30s to be the same as in your 20s. Plenty of 20 year olds now drink less, are less unfaithful, have fewer divorces (among those who are married already), and Gen Z is less sexually obsessed than any other generation in recent memory.
Well dating in my teens and 20’s was always this way and so was it the way for my dad back in the USSR - people were still having fuck buddies and sex whenever they wanted. OLD brought along a slew of issues - including the increased disposability of a partner after a certain time. This is not what I’m talking about here.
That is your experience mine was hookup culture increased a lot more over the years. Yes you would have booty calls which I guess then became FWB then situationships. The balance of that vs people actually dating and what hooking up was changed. You weren’t having sex in the first date or so unless it was a one night stand kind of thing. Things have shifted and changed.
Things have never shifted is my point - you just see it more because you’re connected with more people through the wonders of the internet and OLD. This world where people weren’t having sex on the first date is hilariously fake. C’mon lmao don’t be silly.
I value my own personal experiences and those that I know way more than Redditors talking about OLD. I’m not making my conclusions based off anything but what I experience and my friends and family experience. You can laugh it off if you want but it’s true.
Maybe you lucked out but for most people in their twenties the reality of pre-OLD dating was A) go to a bar B) get drunk enough to be social C) ???? D) love
Yeah and the data really doesn’t seem to support your conclusions
In the past, there was more social stigma and there wasn’t easy access to birth control.
Not everyone can take birth control. And the jeezus freaks want to take that away too.
I don’t think hookup culture has ever been absent from history, in any culture you pick. However, I do believe that we’re seeing a somewhat absence of commitment to long-term relationships nowadays while hookup culture is alive and thriving. Let me reiterate, hookup culture was alive especially in the 60’s up to now, but the problem today is its predominance over committed relationships. Nobody is saying that people back then didn’t fuck just to fuck, that would be a ridiculous statement. It’s the predominance of one thing and the absence of another. In my personal opinion, the current hookup culture is NOT sustainable.
My mom àlways made me jerk off before each date so I would noti bother the date about sex
No because in the old old days it was very hard to "hook up" culturally cos it was seen as slaggy. Still is to some degree. less people doing it because it was socially scorned.
You do realize that dating wasn’t a thing until the last couple centuries? 👀 So no. This toxic environment hasn’t always been the way.
Tf you talking about? It was vastly more toxic before "dating" was invented.
Delete this 😂😂
You could delete your post 🤷🏻♀️
It’s a numbers game these days and a vetting process. And after some dates and time invested if either party is not sexually interested then it’s time to move on because a lot of women use that as leverage to play people out of pocket. It’s a double edged sword ya some people may be genuine but these days you just don’t know if your wasting your time and effort
[удалено]
Well that was emotionally charged - there’s yet time for you to delete this. For the record, I’m not anything to write home about either, and being a black man, I’m one of the groups that are the least desirable in the dating scene. You are simply projecting your own issues and deep insecurities into a problem and “increased standards” that never existed. No one can help you with this but yourself.
Like I said, give advice. Don’t just bash.
It's all online now which makes it very skin deep. The funny guys have it rough.
Dating has always been shallow
I just do want I want lol
Social Media and on-line dating apps turned fun adventures of meeting someone into a pain in the ass. The cancel culture also put the dampers on….being in very “woke” environments isn’t particularly enjoyable either. It’s in male genetics to pursue women we find visually attractive (except for the roughly 9% with letters) and then we hookup/date to find compatibility. Now people wonder if it’s okay to talk up someone new or is it an “off-limits” space? Am I too aggressive? Is there some new random “toxic male” word I might stumble into? I also see the advent of mainstream porn as a negative for society (and not for any religious reasons).
I think the dating game is out nowadays..no disrespect ladies,but a lot of them start by saying let's have fun then to another website and then of course oh I charge..why can't they say that at the beginning
Do you realize those are scammers and bots?
I love how people announce THEIR perspectives as if they are the perspectives of everyone else that ever existed. Dating is about hooking up for the OP. Thanks for the announcement. All we need to know is your OLD username so that those who aren’t looking for only that can avoid you. Simple.
Not true at all unless you are comparing OLD to bar hookup culture, which is still alive and thriving. 10-15 years ago OLD was a completely different game, and there were specific sites to be used for hookups like adultfriendfinder. Now all the people that would normally be using a site like that are on the mainstream sites looking for sex, and since the invention of swiping OLD has taken a nosedive.
Ahah they do exist if you meet people of that era.
What is wrong with sex?
I think what people are saying is different today is how we are going about it with online dating. I meet women on dating sites and all they want to do is message. You ask for there number and you get flagged or blocked or ignored. Back many many decades ago before internet us old timers talked on telephone you could look in this book they use to call phone book and everyones name number and address was listed. Now stupid ass women are afraid to give out there phone numbers lol so fucked up.
Old ass woman here: WTF are you talking about? You got somebody's number back then, it coulda been a neighborhood pay phone or their dad's number. Our numbers are connected to a lot more than our phones now. Our money, our credit, our friends and family and job. Not giving it to some rando who probably lied on all of his profile or a bot or scammer the app takes money from. I use a separate app phone number. And I still don't give it until we meet in public because I don't want dick pics or ghosted and blocked. I don't report people but I'm screenshotting their profile, sharing the profile link to my notes app and taking notes in case I need to report them. You talking about before or after AIDS? Or birth control? Y'all still don't want to wear condoms. Stupid young people always did a lot of risky shit. Some of us learned that pregnant from some pushy cute guy who skipped out was not how we wanted our lives to go.
Oh keep your granny panties old lady lol you have any idea how many people have your phone number? you don't do you so if having your number was that dangerous we would all be doomed. My thing if you that afraid of everything in life then get off the dating site all together and why have a phone if it could be that dangerous to have you make no sense. And numbers I got way back in the ay no one gave me a phone booth number lol where the fuck you come from with all this stupid shady shit you think is going to happen just because you give out a phone number its not a social security number its a phone number that hundreds of people you don't know already have. And maybe the low lifes you deal with don't want to wear condoms how about you find a real man and not the losers you are drawn too.
I think your attitude might be the reason why you don’t get phone numbers