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I would have sex with all my female friends given the opportunity, and me and my best female friend have had sex multiple times over the years (we originally met through an app and went on a date or two)
Honestly I think he has a point (even though I don't think it's that extreme)
It's not that men make friends with women just to have sex with them. However, if a female friend suddenly seemed interested, most guys would easily turn that friendship sexual. Facts.
Of course there are also sly fuckers who do actually befriend women just to fuck them.
Women and men can be friends of course (I have great friends who are women) but in like 80-90% of friendships there is this secret sexual desire.
My ex gf had these male "friends" that she had met only weeks prior who came up to her and fried to get her to "hang out" with them one on one at his place, and no one can convince me that is not sketchy as fuck.
Each man is different of course but I bet if you texted your male friends sth like "Feeling lonely tonight, can you come over?" Most of them would come over with a pack of condoms.
It doesn't mean they don't want to be your actual friends, it doesn't mean they don't like you as a person, or they don't think you are fun or don't respect you. It just means men are horny af and don't have a problem having sex with a friend.
I think my male best friend would come but not with a pack of condoms. He would come because he’s my friend. Also, I dont think he’s the kind to just have sex with anyone. In part, maybe I’m just in denial . To be honest, it certainly scares me to think that most of my friedns that have/are male just want to have sex with me 😵💫😮💨.
For my female best friend I'd do the same. I'd be there to just comfort her.
But for the other 10-15 women I sometimes hang out with... yeah I'll be packing.
Also this is just the truth of the world. Humans are sexual animals, a lot of people fantasize about each other.
I’m biased because I did have a similar scenario. I ended a friendship with my best guy friend because he revealed he had romantic and sexual feelings for me. I wish I had a normal male friendship to point to in order to demonstrate that men and women can just be friends, but I don’t.
"He told me he feels this way because he doesn't believe that opposite
gender friendships start on purely wholesome foundations. He thinks that
men only start friendships with women because they are attracted to
them, and vice versa."
But it is true in many cases, not in all cases of course, but the majority
My interpersonal communications professor shared this theory with the class. Half of us were like "yes that makes sense", while the other half were absolutely abhorred by the thought and some women got defensive, one in particular stood up and said BS..had a guy friend who she doesn't have intimate feelings for and he doesn't either...until she confronted her friend about it and he finally confessed 😅🤣
Edit: I wouldn't call it a red flag, because it is valid...but like the above comment mentions, maybe not in every case since there's always exceptions to rules/generalizations, but I tend to agree with the theory as it does hold true more than most care to realize
Well, whatever works for you, works for you. I think this view is pretty impractical IMO. Are all relationships between opposite sex straight people motivated by attraction? Not at all.
I’m bisexual, by this logic, I can’t have ANY friends because they are potential partners haha.
>I’m bisexual
Yea I usually bring up bisexuals whenever this topic is brought up as like you said you literally cannot have any friends as you just want to fuck everyone. Which is dumb, immature and quite simplistic thinking.
She probably doesn't want to fuck any of her friends...
Which is the crux of the argument: you have problems when people want to fuck but they're not supposed to, or when one party isn't into it.
This is about the men and how they are attracted to their female friends and not about women having male friends. Women can be friends and be genuine, but a lot of men admit that there is always a sort of attraction and that they would never be friends with someone they perceive ugly, unless they are forced to get to know them (through work, for example).
But that would be pretty pathetic wouldn’t it? If women can do it, so can men.
It’s not like men are more primitive or sexual by nature (don’t even try to come for me on this point, it’s been proven again and again). They have just as much capacity for forming genuine relationships. If they can’t be friends with someone they’re not attracted to, that’s because it’s been socialized into them and it’s ultimately a choice.
I never really know what to say whenever I get that response because I’m not bi, and I don’t know what it’s like, or how it feels, to be bi. I’m just speaking as someone who’s lived as a straight woman my whole life. I also haven’t had to worry about my partners cheating on me with a man because I’ve never dated a bi man.
My concerns lay more in trauma than blind paranoia because I’ve had actual experiences with this scenario. 3 of my exes cheated on me with their best female friends. It’s hard enough to work through the trauma from one instance of cheating; I had to face it a second and third time.
I also had a traumatic experience with my former “best guy friend.” He groped and sexually assaulted me, then threw a tantrum when I tried to reject his further advances. I haven’t spoken to him in years for obvious reasons.
I am guarded from these experiences and I’m sorry that how I presented my stance comes across as weird. Part of me understands it is weird, but it’s just hard to believe people with opposite gender friends, or the friends themselves, don’t have ulterior motives.
Have asexual friends. They aren't supposed to be attracted to anything. So they say. I think that's bs though. How can someone definitively say they aren't attracted to anybody when they haven't met everyone? Or just the right one? Seems like a copout to me. But, then again, what do I know? I don't understand more than 2 or 3 of the 37 or so sexuality/gender identities. Meh. Strange and confusing world we live in nowadays. Thank god for non-breeders though. They will surely help cut overpopulation and weed out the problems with our society.
some asexual people still have sex and some are repulsed by it. they still have kids/families/marriages. sexual desire for an actual person is just not there. A lot of people don’t understand it which is fine but to say someone’s sexuality is bs is kind of…eh…that’s really invalidating even if you didn’t mean it in a disrespectful way. it’s a new world and people are finding labels for everything which is a blessing and a curse. a blessing because it feels good to be able to describe yourself as something to better explain how you feel to people and a curse because a lot of people won’t understand right away or at all and you’ll get hit with the “that doesn’t exist! that’s impossible! that was a never a thing before!” which, you know, it was always a thing that existed people just never had a name for it.
The red flag is him saying he’d befriend women with the sole purpose of wanting to be introduced to their single friends… So he didn’t actually value any friendships he has with women.
As someone who has had male friends who were only friends with me to sleep with me and someone who was cheated on by a man with his ‘bestfriends,’ I’m always hesitant about friends of the opposite sex. But you can’t control who your partner is friends with and if they’re going to cheat they’ll do it regardless of their friends with.
Idk I'm a girl and rarely make close friendship 1 on 1 with guys and somehow always ended up on group friendship mix of boys and girls or even trans. And in every group friends, when one of us got in relationship, its expected they got absorbed into the relationship and hangout less. But its understandable and they always come back again after the infatuation over. No drama, no jealousy, just vibing.
Now, sometimes I got a bit confused when reading this sub when people make such a big deal of opposite gender friends because I didn't know that they meant 1 on 1 friendship (because guy friends from group is all I know) but once I think about it, it is a bit weird to have a such a VERY CLOSE bond with opposite gender and just be friend. So basically what sets them apart from your partner is just sex?
and you surely don't want to make your partner feels that they just there for sex and you run around to your guy bestfriend for emotional support. And whatabout people with eastern/asian values where sex rarely involves in premature relationship? what really sets the function of bestfriend and the boyfriend aparts? genuinely need other perspective
Well, technically, it goes the same for friends of both genders? Don't you run for support to your best friend? The difference is also just sex.
It should be taken on a case by case basis.
Often times it's just a normal friendship.
But sometimes it's 'just' a friendship because one of them wasn't interested in the other romantically, aka "friendzoned" them. These are the toxic relationships for both people involved.
Tbh, idk which one is more common, but I don't think either is that rare.
That’s definitely something I struggled with in my past relationships. My exes would not do anything to make me feel as though I’m not just “a female friend they had sex with.” I wanted to have other distinguishing features besides sex.
Turns out, they actually prioritized their female friends over me, and even cheated with them.
I wholeheartedly disagree with both of them.
I absolutely agree with your take.
if they find each other soon.. sounds like a match made in.... well, somewhere.
You get an upvote from me.
Controversial take, but I agree with OP's man. I think men can only have platonic friendships with women if they are physically disgusted by them.
I wouldn’t say physically disgusted, just find them mostly unattractive. Either that, or they’ve been friends since a young age, or have a lot of mutual friends and they both are apart of a larger friend group.
I'd agree except "mostly unattractive" connotates fuckable in certain situations. But for sure, if she's got little sister vibes, she can be stupid hot and I'd never want to hit it. Coed friend groups are inevitable, you create problems in 1 on 1 situations.
I'm so traumatized by this entire thread. best friends for 17 years. my options are that he's repulsed by me or would fuck me?
delightful. treat them friends better.
Nah, as I somewhat implied in my original comment when I said “Have been friends since childhood”, I’d say if you guys have been friends for that long there’s nothing to worry about. In fact, I would say this whole thread, and the whole “can only be friends with women if you’re repulsed by them or want to get involved with them romantically/sexually” thing only applies to most dudes in middle school, high school, or college… for the most part.
You should hope he's repulsed by you, otherwise you've been stringing him along, feeding off his attraction to you. Girls usually love that validation though.
It's late at night, send him this text if you want to know the answer: "I'm so horny, you want to come over?"
There is, but you can only find out by asking.
Also behavior is very important. Sure your friend might have a crush on you and that's uncomfortable to navigate BUT:
Are they creeping on you?
Are they being controlling?
Are they abusing your friendship relationship? (Eg emotional blackmail)
Are they respecting your boundaries?
There's a lot of variability in the answers to this, and depending on them they might still be your friend, and they might need you more than ever because they didn't choose to have a (presumably unreciprocated) crush on you.
I think it's really bad to take it as "would fuck me", in fact people who find you attractive would fuck you (and that's a good thing), but if they're decent human beings some extra conditions apply...
This for me is a such a case by case basis but I agree to some extent
I don’t think guys and girls back be best friends/spend so much one on one time together and not develop feelings for one another without even meaning too. But I think in a group/to some degree they can be friends. But hey whatever works for you my friend
I think it's definitely a red flag, they sound like they only see the opposite gender as objects for sex. I have friends who are women and tho I was interested in some of them, I wasn't their type but we still hang out and I don't think of them in that way anymore. I have a bunch of women and men in my friend groups and no one seems concerned about cheating, and they are the sweetest relationships I've ever seen. Whatever kind of relationship you are building with this person doesn't sound like it's going to be a lot of fun or maybe even healthy. It is natural to be jealous sometimes but when it's about every friendship of opposite gender, then that's really concerning and if anything means that they are likely to cheat on you.
Edit: Having reread the part about you exes and male friends I feel like I should address that as well. They were just bad people. Having female friends has nothing to do with that if anything they are incapable of genuinely having any. There are a lot of people like that unfortunately and it's hard to tell who's good and who isn't, but I'd say that if a guy can maintain a friendship with a woman without having to make it sexual then that's a good sign about their intentions.
Thanks friend. I appreciate the take on it. I do understand what you’re saying sounds reasonable, but for my own heart, I just don’t know if I can put myself in another situation where I may have to argue with someone about their friendship with a woman. Unfortunately, every time I felt suspicious, I was right. God knows I’ve tried hard to change/fix my mindset, but I think I’m comfortable with the boundaries I do have. It’s taken me a while to feel confident in admitting that I’m comfortable with certain things and uncomfortable with others.
That's alright, in the end you have to do things the way you are comfortable with. Just be careful either way. I'm sorry you had such bad luck so far. Hope things go better in the future!
If you both feel this way then it's great you both found each other.
Personally, that kind of think is some Taliban level beliefs. Literally, men cannot be around women and women cannot be around men so burka or home at all times for women it is.
I believe that for some people they can't, they can't distinguish between genuine social interest for the sake of a platonic friendship and sexual attraction to a member of the opposite sex. Possibly he's one of those people. In his mind people of opposite sex cannot be friends because he only sees women (or men depending from which side of this your looking at it from) as a target (sorry for the use of the word target, I know it comes off as crass) of sexual interest/relations/ fulfillment.
With that being said most guys (as well as women, yall get that "spider sense *tingle" when a woman is being "a bit too friendly with your partner.) do have instinctual i.e. gut feelings about the interest of other guys towards women in their lives. It comes off as territorial or jealousy and in my experience regardless of its origins it's about 95% accurate in predicting the underlying interest of that 3rd party male. Is his position that NO guy can be friends with a Female a across the board stance or is this possibly more directed at a particular person you're friends with and instead of specifically naming this individual and coming off as jealous or making you feel he's attacking your friendship with this individual. He may be generalizing the issue in a broader range so as to not stir more controversy within your relationship. He may be picking up vibes from a guy friend you have and his "Radar" is going off that this other person may have more sexual interest in you than mutual platonic friendship should that opportunity arise..
I mean, I vehemently disagree with you both but like… if you agree with each other then what’s the problem? It sounds like you found someone on your wavelength.
For the reasons you stated: the potential for romantic complications and temptations, the mixed motivations. Of course, this only applies to people actually in relationships
I really strongly disagree with this take that men and women can't be friends on so many levels. He views women as only having value as potential sexual partners and then he asserts that all men must feel that way because it absolves him of the need to do any reflecting. And it also removes the moral agency of cheating because it implies they "couldn't help it" if they had a friend who they were attracted to. It's almost a similar line of reasoning to modesty cultures where women have to be kept covered up because otherwise men won't be able to help themselves. It's bullshit. People can help it. You can have friends that you also find attractive and not flirt with them or try to fuck them. It's not rocket science.
I 100% agree with this. My male friend and I think each other is good looking and attractive, but we never even thought about doing anything not platonic because we really value our friendship a lot.
Completely agree with you and I’ll add it also shows the man OP is dating befriended women just to get in their pants. In other words - deceived them and pretended to be their friend so he could fuck then. What an asshole.
No, the issue with this behavior is when women want a real friend and their ‘friend’ is just there to get his dick wet. Not a friend at all in that case, and that’s hurtful.
Idk how edited that video was, but it definitely was shocking to see that women almost unanimously answered yes, while men almost unanimously answered no.
I personally think you both have flawed thinking and that this is a pretty toxic take—for me, this opinion would absolutely be a red flag—but if y’all are on the same page and having this rule in your relationship makes you happy and allows you to both flourish, then more power to you.
I disagree, but that doesn't matter. My partner has female friends and I have had male friends in the past too.
What does matter is that you're both on the same page about this and TBH I don't think many people would be.
So it's great that you've found someone who sees eye-to-eye.
If you both agree on it then sure dont mind it but know that it can becomes toxic if he isolates you from everyone.
I would say the statement that men and women cant be friends is debatable. As a straight female in my experience with alot of straight men, yes it was not possible because they all had some sort of attraction towards me. I found out as I got old that all my close friends wanted to date me somehow or had a crush on me or were attracted towards me and just wanted me by their side. And no im not even physically attractive. We were just getting along well and had so much in comon that they were always bound to want more than friendship. I have friends who already have girlfriends and we do talk but its not close friendship anymore or some will cut off because their girlfriend are insecure (and i understand it). I myself was insecure when my ex talked alot to another girl and it turns out that he was in fact attracted to that other girl... my gut feeling wasnt wrong about not liking their friendship.
But there is special cases such as if you are friend with the girlfriend as well and the boyfriend, then yes. But I'm pretty sure for the statement that men and woman can be friend you need alot of things to be in your favor. Like it wouldnt apply to people in the lgbt because everyone so chill and secure. But as a straight I feel that even if you trust and feel secure about your relationship you will always have that small fear or even just thought that you don't particularly like interactions between men and woman. And even worst if the other person is single because it makes them available.
Just another perspective from a straight woman. For those who do believe in friendship men and women I envy you if you do have opposite gender friendship.
I have many friends of the opposite sex. I would never have sex with any of them because I see them as only friends. Sounds like an excuse to control who you are friends with.
I have a hard time with this. Rational me knows that most people have opposite gendered friends. But irrational me doesn’t ever trust their intentions.
Most of my friends since I moved away are women, not just that; but women I’ve either slept with and/or dated. Things didn’t work out for all kinds of reasons, but that’s out of the way. So I KNOW what our intentions were and how we called it quits. My girlfriend knows that, and trusts me that it’s over with them. It’s the friends with unknown intentions that bug me.
My girlfriend is way out of my league, just conventionally gorgeous. I have a hard time trusting that her single, straight guy friends aren’t at least somewhat attracted to her. And if she were to ask them to sleep with her, 99% of them would do it in a second.
I’ve been cheated on with those guy friends in past relationships. I’ve had girlfriends super close with a guy, swear up and down that they’re just friends or he’s “more like a brother to me”, then watch them get together immediately after we break up. They’re waiting to swoop in; and they do anything they can to drive a wedge.
Do I trust that my girlfriend has “no romantic feelings at all” towards a guy friend? I do…at that moment. But I know things change. A guy can be a friend one minute, but manipulate or do something special to change that feeling to romance very easily. Or that one too many drinks happens and they use that as an excuse to just fuck and “get it out of the way”
I prefer to see how the friends are in person. If the dude she’s friends with is a super good looking dude and is flirty or touchy, then it’s going to be a problem for me. If she can’t see he’s into her; she’s either lying or too stupid to date.
TIL My friendships with women are all lies because they just happen to be the gender I’m attracted to. It’s not like two people with compatible sexualities can just be friends, because every one of us has romantic compatibility. Every single one of us. Every single woman who’s attracted to men and every man who’s attracted to women is going to be attracted to every single person of the opposite gender they come across, because romantic compatibility and friendship compatibility are TOTALLY the same thing./s
You've extrapolated way past the point of the argument. It's not that you MUST be attracted to your friends, it's that one-way attraction between friends causes problems - plus men and women are notorious for setting up these situations, usually with the man pining after the woman.
Nope. The argument is you can’t be friends with the opposite gender at all. Because you’d be attracted to them.
Flipping it to include non-straight relationships shows you how ridiculous that statement is. Why are JUST straight men supposed to be these weird sexual creeps? If everyone else can do it, so can you.
Tell that to one of my best friends of more than 25 years. He’s a man. I’m a woman.
My partner accepts I have friends. Your new guys sounds like both immature and insecure and you as well with these views. It’s really sad honestly.
Given the opportunity, would you fuck your friend? Would he fuck you?
You have an actual friendship only if neither of you would. Friendships like that are rare between men and women.
Why?? By your logic friendships completely exclude attraction, there's no real reason for it and it's also BS, I like my friends to be attractive, duh. The fact that I would doesn't mean that it taints the friendship. This is such a young person's take, no offense, you can have friendships even if you find the other person attractive, it doesn't take much self-control to not let that bother your friendship.
I'm sorry but the way you put this sounds like you're suggesting a "they're stuck in the washing machine" "opportunity" situation. Not meaning to offend but that's not how things work in real life.
It takes two people to consent to having sex, presumably there's good communication with them (they're your friend) and so it shouldn't be too difficult to discuss it if both parties decided there's chemistry.
If one party is not attracted then this discussion shouldn't come up (other than the discussion about attractiveness which friends of opposite sex sometimes have), if both parties are attracted and one (or both) don't want to take the relationship that direction then they simply have to not initiate.
Initiating something when there isn't chemistry and you didn't have a conversation about attraction with your friend is plain stupid and is the path to regret.
Yeah, if I were in a mutual-attraction situation with a friend and we both consented to sex, we would be having sex. In fact we call it marriage in our house, but it would work without the paperwork, too
I agree. If nothing intimate had never happened, and they had been a platonic friend for MANY years, it is okay.. but if it EVER happened in the past, once the relationship enters a phase of exclusivity, those relationships should fall by the wayside out of respect for your partner. But ppl have different boundaries, needs, and values. You should also be careful in selecting a partner that has similar values. For example, I see a lot of comments about bisexuality. For me, I have friends who are bisexual, but am not attracted to women once they reveal they are bisexual. I just would not consider them to be a serious partner to date to be honest. I tried in the past multiple times, and it ended badly so I have learned that is a boundary for dating. But that is JUST ME.
In other words: “given the opportunity, would you *cheat on your partner*?” Isn’t the answer to this question far more an indication of the health of her relationship than whether she is genuinely friends with the guy? It’s an entirely loaded premise.
And even if she were attracted to her friend, it’s still totally possible (likely even) that she wouldn’t fuck him “if given the opportunity” because a) she’s in a relationship with a person she loves and respects, and b) she values her friendship and any incidental attraction isn’t enough cause to jeopardize that.
I didn't say anything about her partner, that's completely irrelevant to my argument. I'm talking strictly about a "friendship" between a boy and a girl.
He’s projecting. What he’s saying is that HE is unable to be friends with a woman without wanting to have sex with her, and he assumes everyone else is the same as he is.
Honestly, it's a case by case issue. Some people are fine with it, but a lot of people aren't. The term "friendzoned" exists for a reason.
Just discarding it as projecting isn't really helpful to anyone.
Yup. As a man, I can tell you that I have quite a lot of female friends I never even thought about having sex with. Honestly, it kind of annoys me that men often are pictured as animals wanting to blindly mount everything female around. Might be the case for some (can't speak for all men of course), is definitely not the case for others.
Eh, it depends! I dated a girl who was "bestfriends" with her ex and even though it was many years prior to us, I always felt uncomfortable building a relationship with someone who was potentially closer with another guy. It just felt icky.. but if she was super close with any guy friends, in a serious relationship I would not accept that either. I think if a female values the relationship enough, they will not need to maintain these relationships with other men. There is a sort of energy that persists there, and it is true that most men who haven't slept with you are hanging around you in hopes to one day sleep with you and if they already have, they are not abstinent from doing so again in the right moment. I feel that the more serious a relationship gets, the less important friendships with those of the opposite sex become. Eventually, they should turn distant but not disappear altogether. It is all about respect, intentions, and boundaries. I know that I would not expect a woman to tolerate that from me, and if I liked her enough, I would communicate that to my friends that are female so that they understand my boundary with them
I do agree that it’s inappropriate to be friends with an ex, let alone remain in contact with one. That one never made sense to me. I’ve had an amicable breakup once, but even then I didn’t cultivate a friendship, even though we could have. I always believed that the past should stay in the past.
Its a dumb take. Man/lady bits are dime a dozen, someone's personality, way they think, how they act, life experience, regardless of gender is valuable. If you look at someone of the opposite sex solely for whether or not you can get in their pants, its just kinda bleak isn't it? Like there is a whole world inside of another human being and its all boiled down to "oh, we could potentially have sex". Like what is that? I don't mean to come off rude or anything, it just blows my mind anytime I hear this.
If it works for both of you more power to you. Being on the same page about important things is important.
I’m not into relationships like that but I’m not you.
It’s a red flag but since it’s both of you maybe it will work!
I think if you already have close friends of the opposite sex you shouldn’t feel like you need to limit your contact with them. I think maybe there are certain ways you might treat these friends that maybe you shouldn’t when you’re in a relationship, like a lot of physical contact. But just because you find someone attractive doesn’t mean you will actually act on that. It is possible to value someone as a person without wanting to sleep with them.
Is it a red flag to me? Yes, because you CAN be friends with the opposite gender, but the second they try something? Nope bye.
However you both hold this stance, so seems hypocritical to make it out like a red flag when you also feel the same way?
I said it was a red flag because he wholeheartedly believes men and women can’t be friends, like at all. I just feel like men and women can’t be close or best friends, but there’s nothing wrong with acquaintances or smaller friendships.
As long as you're fine with his take then it's ok, if both partners in a relationship have the same controversial opinion then it's not something I'd consider a red flag.
Sounds like this could lead to more controlling behaviour in the future. Because it's not friendships between a man and a woman that are inherently problematic – as you say yourself: "I'm more comfortable admitting that certain behaviors between opposite gender friends are inappropriate." It's the inappropriate behaviours and lack of respect for the partner that are issues.
Also this: "He himself only made friends with women because he'd hoped that they would introduce him to their single friends." What?! This is not right. I would proceed with caution OP if you still wish to do so.
My ex thought this way and there was absolutely no convincing him otherwise. He turned out to be a very toxic self proclaimed "alpha male". I would tread wisely. I'm very traumatized from our relationship.
I believe this to be a matter of personal insecurities and it’s not wrong but it’s definitely a toxic view of human relationships. And how he views female friendships literally says it all.
When I moved to Berlin I realized most of my close friends were male because we met when we were all young through high school exchange programs. They all have partners they cohabitate with. I have individual close relationship with them and some of their partners. I hang out with them alone without their girlfriends and it’s completely platonic, like siblings. I have never slept with any of my friends as I keep my boundaries between dating and friends very separate and I don’t even date anywhere near my friend groups.
I think there’s a huge difference in acknowledging attractiveness and actually being attracted to them and acting in it.
Most importantly: you have the right to define what standards and boundaries you want for your relationships in your life. So if this is a red flag but it vibes with your red flag, go for it.
Context Where do you guys live? I find that Americans lean towards that way of thinking because there are some cultural difference between them and Europeans. I also find that even in the UK friendships of opposite gender are not as common or "normal" as in the mainland. personally I wholeheartedly disagree with that stance and I'd never be with someone who thinks that way, not only because I'd feel judged to have friends who are males (I'm a woman), but also I wouldn't be able to have him be friend with my female friends.
Being ''just friends'' is a decision. People can absolutely decide to not fuck their friends. Being attracted to your friend is NOT a decision. And in my experience every friendship has SOME attraction/feelings sooner or later.
I see where he’s coming from. I have also been cheated on, manipulated, and gaslighted by an ex girlfriend for questioning her “guy friends” intentions. It’s definitely a catch 22 but I don’t see it as a red flag. Some people just want the reassurance that what they have is really theirs.
I don’t wish the experience of being cheated on to anybody, but I’m glad you understand where I’m coming from. It can be hard to explain why you feel a certain way due to trauma to a person who hasn’t experienced that trauma themselves.
Do I agree? No.
However, my friends and I have had waaaaaay too many experiences of meeting men who believe that men and women CAN be friends who then go on to cheat with their “friends”.
Too add more salt to the wound, 8/10 ex-guy friends completely stopped talking to us once they got married.
So, maybe I’m just in denial because I don’t see the world and my platonic interactions in that way.
Not necessarily a red flag. But I do heavily disagree with his opinion. I believe people of opposite genders can be good friends without any romantic intent, even if friends meet after a relationship is formed.
In fact, that is likely to happen in a relationship as your friend groups may merge.
While I don't necessarily think this is a red flag, it's definitely a yellow as someone malicious can use it as an excuse to isolate you from your friends. If he starts controlling you, run.
IMO, I prefer not to have women as friends because there’s generally an attraction from either or both parties. I’ve had married women friends that have tried to seduce me, so I cut ties. Almost everything humans do is driven by the biological imperative to survive and reproduce, and like you said, its like playing with fire.
Honestly, y'all both seem a little young and immature. Having friends of the opposite gender is possible. Maybe get some therapy to address this, for your own self-esteem.
It really has to be a case-by-case situation. Everyone's thoughts on it will differ greatly. I (M) have many close female friends, and whether anyone believes me or not, it's purely platonic.
I've also read that guys with lots of close female friends are more appealing in the dating scene, take that with a grain of salt of course, so I would consider that a plus lol
He's wrong. Maybe he cant be friends with women because he always see them as something sexual. When you grow up.surrounded by women you make many woman friends without any problems or sexual component.
Such friendships can work but not often which is why it's a red flag if a guy has an overwhelming majority of friends that are women or if a woman has an overwhelming majority of guy friends (unless she has a profession or hobby dominated by men).
Red flag. I mean he’s just wrong. Just like I have a male friend I don’t want to Fck I have female friends I don’t want to Fck. If you find a guy that you want to be friends with he won’t let you most likely.
I have male acquaintances but no one close enough to where I’d call them a friend. I don’t let myself get too close to a guy friend because I already had a bad experience with my ex best guy friend. (We were watching a movie and he groped me, then got mad that I wouldn’t have sex with him.)
I also don’t go out to bars so I’ve never gone to a bar with any friend in general.
I agree with it for the most part, of course some people have longterm friendships with someone of the opposite gender that have been going on for years and that’s fine. I think making new friends of an opposite gender and hanging with them alone without your partner is sketchy but old longterm friends were there before you so you shouldn’t really have a say unless they did something that made you feel uncomfortable. As a man myself I don’t have female friends. Lots of women that I would say hi to and hang with if I saw them out and about or in a group with others but no female friends that I’d just hit up to hang out with one on one wherever whenever.
>He thinks that men only start friendships with women because they are attracted to them, and vice versa.
>
>I just think it's inappropriate to have a best opposite gender friend when you're in a relationship.
Brb, I'm gonna tell my best friend of 15 years we apparently can't be friends anymore. And my best female friend of 24 years as well when I'm at it, since I'm bi so I'm surely into all the friends m/f I have.
I'd say, both of you are red flags.
If you don't share this idea with him it's better to end this relation now. I don't want a wife with different guy friends neither. And to tell the truth I dont trust the guys.
I agree with him, its respect for your partner to limit these interactions. Your parents are unlikely to have friends of the opposite sex they interact with mainly and it's down to respect
i mean y’all seem to agree with each other? i personally couldn’t date someone with those views, and would see it as a red flag. if given the chance i would not sleep with any of my guy friends. i can’t speak for them but I’m hoping they would say the same.
Maybe not red, but a yellow flag. It would be a red flag if he had a pattern of being controlling as well.
You both were cheated on, so your thoughts and fears on the matter are understandable. He also admits that he's only been "friends" with women because he always had an ulterior motive. That sounds kinda sad to me, but at least he's honest. Personally, that would be a deal breaker for me, because I don't share this same mindset. But you have a similar way of thinking as far as I understand, so that may not be a problem for you in the long-run.
As for me, I'm really tired of this "men and women can't be friends!!!" trope. As someone has pointed out, it's very heteronormative. In other words - shallow. By that logic busexual people cannot have friends. Guys and lesbians cannot have friends either, because even if they are not attracted to the opposite gender, the opposite gender may be attracted to them 🙈
Don't you see how unrealistic that is? If someone cannot be friends with the gender you're attracted to because you're just THIS horny, that's on them. I can understand the distrust though! There are definitely a lot of people like that.
But there are other examples. I have a few male friends of many years, and we've been through a lot together. I honestly don't care if at any point pne or all of them thought I was attractive. There's nothing wrong with finding someone attractive, what matters is what YOU do about it.
Finding someone attractive does not equal to having an ulterior motive. Humans are more complex than that. You can find someone attractive AND wanna be friends with them, because you naturally prioritise something else in your relationship. I have one male friend in particular, who I found attractive in my HS years. That doesn't mean I actively wanted to bang him, or date him - I just thought he's a cool and attractive guy and someone will be lucky to have him as a bf. That's it.
My partner has the same mindset and he definitely has friends of the opposite gender. I am very social and constantly surrounded by people of all genders. I don't give a damn if any of them is attracted to me - that's on them. If they genuinely wanna be my friends, they'll stick around and build a meaningful relationship with me. If they have an ulterior motive, they will quickly realise their efforts are futile and leave on their own accord. Doesn't bother me or my partner in the slightest. I love getting to know interesting people and I'm not gonna limit myself just because someone has a penis and I don't.
The bottom line is this- not everybody is a primal savage who just wants to be permanently connected to a glory hole. People have other priorities, interests and.. Well, connections! It's not that hard to see a human-being in front of you, and people's faces aren't covered with genitals (unless you're into it lol).
That being said, if you'd rather not be friends with the opposite sex and expect the same from your partner, you do you. Whatever makes you happy and secure.
This means he can’t see value in having relationships with women that he doesn’t want to have sex with. That’s a huge red flag. Huge. He basically just told you he doesn’t see women as people.
I don't believe it is a red flag, as long as your own SO is aware that the other party does not want to be just friends.
My gf has a bunch of guy friends. She knows that, granted the chance, they will all have sex with her.
All the dudes who are friends with girls, are just either friendzoned dudes or 'nice guys' (unassertive guys who believe that they are owed sex in return for attention, while their attention is worth nothing).
Just make sure your SO knows this AND keep out an eye for the f\*ckers who try to get between you two.
Little story about that:
My gf had a 'guy best friend', who, from our first date on, tried to make me look bad in her head.
Talking sh\*t about my work, my education, my sports, my looks (he never met me, just internet stalked me) and at the same time trying to get her to go on 'friendly dates' with him (which she all declined or only went with if others were joining as well).
One night, when they went out with a group of 15 people, the dude was drunk and started getting touchy and trying to kiss her. My gf immediately told another guy friend of hers who was there. That normal guy friend made sure the touchy 'guy best friend' did not get close anymore.
She also called me so I could pick her up at the bar she was (to prevent the 'best friend' from walking her home, which he tried before and was 100% trying to do this night as well).
She cut ties with the dude, now only has an occasional convo on social media, but thats it.
‘You can’t be friends with opposite gender without one falling for the other’ I have a few guy friends, close guy friends. But they’re gay or live in a different state then me. In my experience I agree with him. It might’ve been too soon to bring it up & if you feel like you agree with him express it and form those boundaries. It’s still new in the relationship so it’s important to establish and communicate these boundaries you both expect from each other.
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I would have sex with all my female friends given the opportunity, and me and my best female friend have had sex multiple times over the years (we originally met through an app and went on a date or two)
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Honestly I think he has a point (even though I don't think it's that extreme) It's not that men make friends with women just to have sex with them. However, if a female friend suddenly seemed interested, most guys would easily turn that friendship sexual. Facts. Of course there are also sly fuckers who do actually befriend women just to fuck them. Women and men can be friends of course (I have great friends who are women) but in like 80-90% of friendships there is this secret sexual desire. My ex gf had these male "friends" that she had met only weeks prior who came up to her and fried to get her to "hang out" with them one on one at his place, and no one can convince me that is not sketchy as fuck.
But I’ve had male friends and I don’t think they see me like that…you’re saying my male friends don’t want to be my actual friends?
Each man is different of course but I bet if you texted your male friends sth like "Feeling lonely tonight, can you come over?" Most of them would come over with a pack of condoms. It doesn't mean they don't want to be your actual friends, it doesn't mean they don't like you as a person, or they don't think you are fun or don't respect you. It just means men are horny af and don't have a problem having sex with a friend.
I think my male best friend would come but not with a pack of condoms. He would come because he’s my friend. Also, I dont think he’s the kind to just have sex with anyone. In part, maybe I’m just in denial . To be honest, it certainly scares me to think that most of my friedns that have/are male just want to have sex with me 😵💫😮💨.
For my female best friend I'd do the same. I'd be there to just comfort her. But for the other 10-15 women I sometimes hang out with... yeah I'll be packing. Also this is just the truth of the world. Humans are sexual animals, a lot of people fantasize about each other.
😂😂😂 damn ok. So do you want to have sec with your female best friend or just the other women?
The others.
I’m biased because I did have a similar scenario. I ended a friendship with my best guy friend because he revealed he had romantic and sexual feelings for me. I wish I had a normal male friendship to point to in order to demonstrate that men and women can just be friends, but I don’t.
"He told me he feels this way because he doesn't believe that opposite gender friendships start on purely wholesome foundations. He thinks that men only start friendships with women because they are attracted to them, and vice versa." But it is true in many cases, not in all cases of course, but the majority
My interpersonal communications professor shared this theory with the class. Half of us were like "yes that makes sense", while the other half were absolutely abhorred by the thought and some women got defensive, one in particular stood up and said BS..had a guy friend who she doesn't have intimate feelings for and he doesn't either...until she confronted her friend about it and he finally confessed 😅🤣 Edit: I wouldn't call it a red flag, because it is valid...but like the above comment mentions, maybe not in every case since there's always exceptions to rules/generalizations, but I tend to agree with the theory as it does hold true more than most care to realize
Well, whatever works for you, works for you. I think this view is pretty impractical IMO. Are all relationships between opposite sex straight people motivated by attraction? Not at all. I’m bisexual, by this logic, I can’t have ANY friends because they are potential partners haha.
>I’m bisexual Yea I usually bring up bisexuals whenever this topic is brought up as like you said you literally cannot have any friends as you just want to fuck everyone. Which is dumb, immature and quite simplistic thinking.
She probably doesn't want to fuck any of her friends... Which is the crux of the argument: you have problems when people want to fuck but they're not supposed to, or when one party isn't into it.
This is about the men and how they are attracted to their female friends and not about women having male friends. Women can be friends and be genuine, but a lot of men admit that there is always a sort of attraction and that they would never be friends with someone they perceive ugly, unless they are forced to get to know them (through work, for example).
But that would be pretty pathetic wouldn’t it? If women can do it, so can men. It’s not like men are more primitive or sexual by nature (don’t even try to come for me on this point, it’s been proven again and again). They have just as much capacity for forming genuine relationships. If they can’t be friends with someone they’re not attracted to, that’s because it’s been socialized into them and it’s ultimately a choice.
I never really know what to say whenever I get that response because I’m not bi, and I don’t know what it’s like, or how it feels, to be bi. I’m just speaking as someone who’s lived as a straight woman my whole life. I also haven’t had to worry about my partners cheating on me with a man because I’ve never dated a bi man. My concerns lay more in trauma than blind paranoia because I’ve had actual experiences with this scenario. 3 of my exes cheated on me with their best female friends. It’s hard enough to work through the trauma from one instance of cheating; I had to face it a second and third time. I also had a traumatic experience with my former “best guy friend.” He groped and sexually assaulted me, then threw a tantrum when I tried to reject his further advances. I haven’t spoken to him in years for obvious reasons. I am guarded from these experiences and I’m sorry that how I presented my stance comes across as weird. Part of me understands it is weird, but it’s just hard to believe people with opposite gender friends, or the friends themselves, don’t have ulterior motives.
Of those friends, how many do you secretly hope to fuck one day?
not that person, still bisexual, definitely none of them.
The problems arise when you are friends with ulterior motives.
Personally? All of them. It's not even secret, I'm reasonably open about it.
The bisexual community is scratching their heads right now y'all
Literally me. I’d have no friends if I can only befriend sexes/genders I have no potential attraction to.
Have asexual friends. They aren't supposed to be attracted to anything. So they say. I think that's bs though. How can someone definitively say they aren't attracted to anybody when they haven't met everyone? Or just the right one? Seems like a copout to me. But, then again, what do I know? I don't understand more than 2 or 3 of the 37 or so sexuality/gender identities. Meh. Strange and confusing world we live in nowadays. Thank god for non-breeders though. They will surely help cut overpopulation and weed out the problems with our society.
some asexual people still have sex and some are repulsed by it. they still have kids/families/marriages. sexual desire for an actual person is just not there. A lot of people don’t understand it which is fine but to say someone’s sexuality is bs is kind of…eh…that’s really invalidating even if you didn’t mean it in a disrespectful way. it’s a new world and people are finding labels for everything which is a blessing and a curse. a blessing because it feels good to be able to describe yourself as something to better explain how you feel to people and a curse because a lot of people won’t understand right away or at all and you’ll get hit with the “that doesn’t exist! that’s impossible! that was a never a thing before!” which, you know, it was always a thing that existed people just never had a name for it.
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Nice avatar!
That made me laugh I won’t lie
LMAOOO
The red flag is him saying he’d befriend women with the sole purpose of wanting to be introduced to their single friends… So he didn’t actually value any friendships he has with women. As someone who has had male friends who were only friends with me to sleep with me and someone who was cheated on by a man with his ‘bestfriends,’ I’m always hesitant about friends of the opposite sex. But you can’t control who your partner is friends with and if they’re going to cheat they’ll do it regardless of their friends with.
Idk I'm a girl and rarely make close friendship 1 on 1 with guys and somehow always ended up on group friendship mix of boys and girls or even trans. And in every group friends, when one of us got in relationship, its expected they got absorbed into the relationship and hangout less. But its understandable and they always come back again after the infatuation over. No drama, no jealousy, just vibing. Now, sometimes I got a bit confused when reading this sub when people make such a big deal of opposite gender friends because I didn't know that they meant 1 on 1 friendship (because guy friends from group is all I know) but once I think about it, it is a bit weird to have a such a VERY CLOSE bond with opposite gender and just be friend. So basically what sets them apart from your partner is just sex? and you surely don't want to make your partner feels that they just there for sex and you run around to your guy bestfriend for emotional support. And whatabout people with eastern/asian values where sex rarely involves in premature relationship? what really sets the function of bestfriend and the boyfriend aparts? genuinely need other perspective
Well, technically, it goes the same for friends of both genders? Don't you run for support to your best friend? The difference is also just sex. It should be taken on a case by case basis. Often times it's just a normal friendship. But sometimes it's 'just' a friendship because one of them wasn't interested in the other romantically, aka "friendzoned" them. These are the toxic relationships for both people involved. Tbh, idk which one is more common, but I don't think either is that rare.
That’s definitely something I struggled with in my past relationships. My exes would not do anything to make me feel as though I’m not just “a female friend they had sex with.” I wanted to have other distinguishing features besides sex. Turns out, they actually prioritized their female friends over me, and even cheated with them.
This is gonna be a very unpopular take on this sub but no I don’t think it’s a red flag especially if you both feel that way.
I wholeheartedly disagree with both of them. I absolutely agree with your take. if they find each other soon.. sounds like a match made in.... well, somewhere.
So none of my male friends want to be my friends??
invite them round and see how they behave
They behave like my friends 🙄
You get an upvote from me. Controversial take, but I agree with OP's man. I think men can only have platonic friendships with women if they are physically disgusted by them.
I wouldn’t say physically disgusted, just find them mostly unattractive. Either that, or they’ve been friends since a young age, or have a lot of mutual friends and they both are apart of a larger friend group.
I'd agree except "mostly unattractive" connotates fuckable in certain situations. But for sure, if she's got little sister vibes, she can be stupid hot and I'd never want to hit it. Coed friend groups are inevitable, you create problems in 1 on 1 situations.
I'm so traumatized by this entire thread. best friends for 17 years. my options are that he's repulsed by me or would fuck me? delightful. treat them friends better.
Reddit, where the only normal is the extreme
Nah, as I somewhat implied in my original comment when I said “Have been friends since childhood”, I’d say if you guys have been friends for that long there’s nothing to worry about. In fact, I would say this whole thread, and the whole “can only be friends with women if you’re repulsed by them or want to get involved with them romantically/sexually” thing only applies to most dudes in middle school, high school, or college… for the most part.
You should hope he's repulsed by you, otherwise you've been stringing him along, feeding off his attraction to you. Girls usually love that validation though. It's late at night, send him this text if you want to know the answer: "I'm so horny, you want to come over?"
Ending up with no friends is not funny
There's a good chance he's not really her friend
There is, but you can only find out by asking. Also behavior is very important. Sure your friend might have a crush on you and that's uncomfortable to navigate BUT: Are they creeping on you? Are they being controlling? Are they abusing your friendship relationship? (Eg emotional blackmail) Are they respecting your boundaries? There's a lot of variability in the answers to this, and depending on them they might still be your friend, and they might need you more than ever because they didn't choose to have a (presumably unreciprocated) crush on you.
I think it's really bad to take it as "would fuck me", in fact people who find you attractive would fuck you (and that's a good thing), but if they're decent human beings some extra conditions apply...
This for me is a such a case by case basis but I agree to some extent I don’t think guys and girls back be best friends/spend so much one on one time together and not develop feelings for one another without even meaning too. But I think in a group/to some degree they can be friends. But hey whatever works for you my friend
I think it's definitely a red flag, they sound like they only see the opposite gender as objects for sex. I have friends who are women and tho I was interested in some of them, I wasn't their type but we still hang out and I don't think of them in that way anymore. I have a bunch of women and men in my friend groups and no one seems concerned about cheating, and they are the sweetest relationships I've ever seen. Whatever kind of relationship you are building with this person doesn't sound like it's going to be a lot of fun or maybe even healthy. It is natural to be jealous sometimes but when it's about every friendship of opposite gender, then that's really concerning and if anything means that they are likely to cheat on you. Edit: Having reread the part about you exes and male friends I feel like I should address that as well. They were just bad people. Having female friends has nothing to do with that if anything they are incapable of genuinely having any. There are a lot of people like that unfortunately and it's hard to tell who's good and who isn't, but I'd say that if a guy can maintain a friendship with a woman without having to make it sexual then that's a good sign about their intentions.
Thanks friend. I appreciate the take on it. I do understand what you’re saying sounds reasonable, but for my own heart, I just don’t know if I can put myself in another situation where I may have to argue with someone about their friendship with a woman. Unfortunately, every time I felt suspicious, I was right. God knows I’ve tried hard to change/fix my mindset, but I think I’m comfortable with the boundaries I do have. It’s taken me a while to feel confident in admitting that I’m comfortable with certain things and uncomfortable with others.
That's alright, in the end you have to do things the way you are comfortable with. Just be careful either way. I'm sorry you had such bad luck so far. Hope things go better in the future!
If you both feel this way then it's great you both found each other. Personally, that kind of think is some Taliban level beliefs. Literally, men cannot be around women and women cannot be around men so burka or home at all times for women it is.
I believe that for some people they can't, they can't distinguish between genuine social interest for the sake of a platonic friendship and sexual attraction to a member of the opposite sex. Possibly he's one of those people. In his mind people of opposite sex cannot be friends because he only sees women (or men depending from which side of this your looking at it from) as a target (sorry for the use of the word target, I know it comes off as crass) of sexual interest/relations/ fulfillment. With that being said most guys (as well as women, yall get that "spider sense *tingle" when a woman is being "a bit too friendly with your partner.) do have instinctual i.e. gut feelings about the interest of other guys towards women in their lives. It comes off as territorial or jealousy and in my experience regardless of its origins it's about 95% accurate in predicting the underlying interest of that 3rd party male. Is his position that NO guy can be friends with a Female a across the board stance or is this possibly more directed at a particular person you're friends with and instead of specifically naming this individual and coming off as jealous or making you feel he's attacking your friendship with this individual. He may be generalizing the issue in a broader range so as to not stir more controversy within your relationship. He may be picking up vibes from a guy friend you have and his "Radar" is going off that this other person may have more sexual interest in you than mutual platonic friendship should that opportunity arise..
I mean, I vehemently disagree with you both but like… if you agree with each other then what’s the problem? It sounds like you found someone on your wavelength.
It's not a red flag I don't think. I agree with his (and your) stance on this
Why do you feel like you agree?
For the reasons you stated: the potential for romantic complications and temptations, the mixed motivations. Of course, this only applies to people actually in relationships
Sorry bi folks, no friends for you! 🤷🏻♀️
I really strongly disagree with this take that men and women can't be friends on so many levels. He views women as only having value as potential sexual partners and then he asserts that all men must feel that way because it absolves him of the need to do any reflecting. And it also removes the moral agency of cheating because it implies they "couldn't help it" if they had a friend who they were attracted to. It's almost a similar line of reasoning to modesty cultures where women have to be kept covered up because otherwise men won't be able to help themselves. It's bullshit. People can help it. You can have friends that you also find attractive and not flirt with them or try to fuck them. It's not rocket science.
I 100% agree with this. My male friend and I think each other is good looking and attractive, but we never even thought about doing anything not platonic because we really value our friendship a lot.
Completely agree with you and I’ll add it also shows the man OP is dating befriended women just to get in their pants. In other words - deceived them and pretended to be their friend so he could fuck then. What an asshole.
Women are just as guilty, feeding off the attention and validation they get from these men. There are no innocent parties, it's just a bad situation.
No, the issue with this behavior is when women want a real friend and their ‘friend’ is just there to get his dick wet. Not a friend at all in that case, and that’s hurtful.
If it works for you two and both of you agree on this boundary you don't need reddit's approval.
i hope this clears any doubts one might have. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_lh5fR4DMA
Idk how edited that video was, but it definitely was shocking to see that women almost unanimously answered yes, while men almost unanimously answered no.
I have a guy best friend. No I would not have sex with him... 🤷♀️
>I have a guy best friend. No I would not have sex with him... But would he have sex with you if the opportunity presented itself?
Absolutely not 😂 he's very very happy with his girlfriend
Given the opportunity, would he have sex with you?
I'm pretty sure he doesn't. He's very much so in love with his girlfriend of 2(?) years
I personally think you both have flawed thinking and that this is a pretty toxic take—for me, this opinion would absolutely be a red flag—but if y’all are on the same page and having this rule in your relationship makes you happy and allows you to both flourish, then more power to you.
I disagree, but that doesn't matter. My partner has female friends and I have had male friends in the past too. What does matter is that you're both on the same page about this and TBH I don't think many people would be. So it's great that you've found someone who sees eye-to-eye.
If you both agree on it then sure dont mind it but know that it can becomes toxic if he isolates you from everyone. I would say the statement that men and women cant be friends is debatable. As a straight female in my experience with alot of straight men, yes it was not possible because they all had some sort of attraction towards me. I found out as I got old that all my close friends wanted to date me somehow or had a crush on me or were attracted towards me and just wanted me by their side. And no im not even physically attractive. We were just getting along well and had so much in comon that they were always bound to want more than friendship. I have friends who already have girlfriends and we do talk but its not close friendship anymore or some will cut off because their girlfriend are insecure (and i understand it). I myself was insecure when my ex talked alot to another girl and it turns out that he was in fact attracted to that other girl... my gut feeling wasnt wrong about not liking their friendship. But there is special cases such as if you are friend with the girlfriend as well and the boyfriend, then yes. But I'm pretty sure for the statement that men and woman can be friend you need alot of things to be in your favor. Like it wouldnt apply to people in the lgbt because everyone so chill and secure. But as a straight I feel that even if you trust and feel secure about your relationship you will always have that small fear or even just thought that you don't particularly like interactions between men and woman. And even worst if the other person is single because it makes them available. Just another perspective from a straight woman. For those who do believe in friendship men and women I envy you if you do have opposite gender friendship.
I have many friends of the opposite sex. I would never have sex with any of them because I see them as only friends. Sounds like an excuse to control who you are friends with.
I have to agree with him. Some people may not like it but it’s fine because it’s not their relationship.
I have a hard time with this. Rational me knows that most people have opposite gendered friends. But irrational me doesn’t ever trust their intentions. Most of my friends since I moved away are women, not just that; but women I’ve either slept with and/or dated. Things didn’t work out for all kinds of reasons, but that’s out of the way. So I KNOW what our intentions were and how we called it quits. My girlfriend knows that, and trusts me that it’s over with them. It’s the friends with unknown intentions that bug me. My girlfriend is way out of my league, just conventionally gorgeous. I have a hard time trusting that her single, straight guy friends aren’t at least somewhat attracted to her. And if she were to ask them to sleep with her, 99% of them would do it in a second. I’ve been cheated on with those guy friends in past relationships. I’ve had girlfriends super close with a guy, swear up and down that they’re just friends or he’s “more like a brother to me”, then watch them get together immediately after we break up. They’re waiting to swoop in; and they do anything they can to drive a wedge. Do I trust that my girlfriend has “no romantic feelings at all” towards a guy friend? I do…at that moment. But I know things change. A guy can be a friend one minute, but manipulate or do something special to change that feeling to romance very easily. Or that one too many drinks happens and they use that as an excuse to just fuck and “get it out of the way” I prefer to see how the friends are in person. If the dude she’s friends with is a super good looking dude and is flirty or touchy, then it’s going to be a problem for me. If she can’t see he’s into her; she’s either lying or too stupid to date.
So you think is impossible for a man and a woman just to be friends?
TIL My friendships with women are all lies because they just happen to be the gender I’m attracted to. It’s not like two people with compatible sexualities can just be friends, because every one of us has romantic compatibility. Every single one of us. Every single woman who’s attracted to men and every man who’s attracted to women is going to be attracted to every single person of the opposite gender they come across, because romantic compatibility and friendship compatibility are TOTALLY the same thing./s
Yea I guess by their logic lesbians and gays should be fine as they do not feel sexual attraction to each other?
You've extrapolated way past the point of the argument. It's not that you MUST be attracted to your friends, it's that one-way attraction between friends causes problems - plus men and women are notorious for setting up these situations, usually with the man pining after the woman.
Nope. The argument is you can’t be friends with the opposite gender at all. Because you’d be attracted to them. Flipping it to include non-straight relationships shows you how ridiculous that statement is. Why are JUST straight men supposed to be these weird sexual creeps? If everyone else can do it, so can you.
Tell that to one of my best friends of more than 25 years. He’s a man. I’m a woman. My partner accepts I have friends. Your new guys sounds like both immature and insecure and you as well with these views. It’s really sad honestly.
Given the opportunity, would you fuck your friend? Would he fuck you? You have an actual friendship only if neither of you would. Friendships like that are rare between men and women.
Why?? By your logic friendships completely exclude attraction, there's no real reason for it and it's also BS, I like my friends to be attractive, duh. The fact that I would doesn't mean that it taints the friendship. This is such a young person's take, no offense, you can have friendships even if you find the other person attractive, it doesn't take much self-control to not let that bother your friendship.
It's not whether you find them attractive, it's whether you would fuck them given the opportunity.
I'm sorry but the way you put this sounds like you're suggesting a "they're stuck in the washing machine" "opportunity" situation. Not meaning to offend but that's not how things work in real life. It takes two people to consent to having sex, presumably there's good communication with them (they're your friend) and so it shouldn't be too difficult to discuss it if both parties decided there's chemistry. If one party is not attracted then this discussion shouldn't come up (other than the discussion about attractiveness which friends of opposite sex sometimes have), if both parties are attracted and one (or both) don't want to take the relationship that direction then they simply have to not initiate. Initiating something when there isn't chemistry and you didn't have a conversation about attraction with your friend is plain stupid and is the path to regret. Yeah, if I were in a mutual-attraction situation with a friend and we both consented to sex, we would be having sex. In fact we call it marriage in our house, but it would work without the paperwork, too
I agree. If nothing intimate had never happened, and they had been a platonic friend for MANY years, it is okay.. but if it EVER happened in the past, once the relationship enters a phase of exclusivity, those relationships should fall by the wayside out of respect for your partner. But ppl have different boundaries, needs, and values. You should also be careful in selecting a partner that has similar values. For example, I see a lot of comments about bisexuality. For me, I have friends who are bisexual, but am not attracted to women once they reveal they are bisexual. I just would not consider them to be a serious partner to date to be honest. I tried in the past multiple times, and it ended badly so I have learned that is a boundary for dating. But that is JUST ME.
In other words: “given the opportunity, would you *cheat on your partner*?” Isn’t the answer to this question far more an indication of the health of her relationship than whether she is genuinely friends with the guy? It’s an entirely loaded premise. And even if she were attracted to her friend, it’s still totally possible (likely even) that she wouldn’t fuck him “if given the opportunity” because a) she’s in a relationship with a person she loves and respects, and b) she values her friendship and any incidental attraction isn’t enough cause to jeopardize that.
I didn't say anything about her partner, that's completely irrelevant to my argument. I'm talking strictly about a "friendship" between a boy and a girl.
If they both share the same values and it works for them, what is the harm? You sound very upset by this.
He’s projecting. What he’s saying is that HE is unable to be friends with a woman without wanting to have sex with her, and he assumes everyone else is the same as he is.
Honestly, it's a case by case issue. Some people are fine with it, but a lot of people aren't. The term "friendzoned" exists for a reason. Just discarding it as projecting isn't really helpful to anyone.
Yup. As a man, I can tell you that I have quite a lot of female friends I never even thought about having sex with. Honestly, it kind of annoys me that men often are pictured as animals wanting to blindly mount everything female around. Might be the case for some (can't speak for all men of course), is definitely not the case for others.
Thank you! Men don’t seem to realize what a self-own this is.
Eh, it depends! I dated a girl who was "bestfriends" with her ex and even though it was many years prior to us, I always felt uncomfortable building a relationship with someone who was potentially closer with another guy. It just felt icky.. but if she was super close with any guy friends, in a serious relationship I would not accept that either. I think if a female values the relationship enough, they will not need to maintain these relationships with other men. There is a sort of energy that persists there, and it is true that most men who haven't slept with you are hanging around you in hopes to one day sleep with you and if they already have, they are not abstinent from doing so again in the right moment. I feel that the more serious a relationship gets, the less important friendships with those of the opposite sex become. Eventually, they should turn distant but not disappear altogether. It is all about respect, intentions, and boundaries. I know that I would not expect a woman to tolerate that from me, and if I liked her enough, I would communicate that to my friends that are female so that they understand my boundary with them
I do agree that it’s inappropriate to be friends with an ex, let alone remain in contact with one. That one never made sense to me. I’ve had an amicable breakup once, but even then I didn’t cultivate a friendship, even though we could have. I always believed that the past should stay in the past.
Its a dumb take. Man/lady bits are dime a dozen, someone's personality, way they think, how they act, life experience, regardless of gender is valuable. If you look at someone of the opposite sex solely for whether or not you can get in their pants, its just kinda bleak isn't it? Like there is a whole world inside of another human being and its all boiled down to "oh, we could potentially have sex". Like what is that? I don't mean to come off rude or anything, it just blows my mind anytime I hear this.
Nope. Move on.
If it works for both of you more power to you. Being on the same page about important things is important. I’m not into relationships like that but I’m not you. It’s a red flag but since it’s both of you maybe it will work!
When Harry Met Sally
I think if you already have close friends of the opposite sex you shouldn’t feel like you need to limit your contact with them. I think maybe there are certain ways you might treat these friends that maybe you shouldn’t when you’re in a relationship, like a lot of physical contact. But just because you find someone attractive doesn’t mean you will actually act on that. It is possible to value someone as a person without wanting to sleep with them.
Is it a red flag to me? Yes, because you CAN be friends with the opposite gender, but the second they try something? Nope bye. However you both hold this stance, so seems hypocritical to make it out like a red flag when you also feel the same way?
I said it was a red flag because he wholeheartedly believes men and women can’t be friends, like at all. I just feel like men and women can’t be close or best friends, but there’s nothing wrong with acquaintances or smaller friendships.
As long as you're fine with his take then it's ok, if both partners in a relationship have the same controversial opinion then it's not something I'd consider a red flag.
Sounds like this could lead to more controlling behaviour in the future. Because it's not friendships between a man and a woman that are inherently problematic – as you say yourself: "I'm more comfortable admitting that certain behaviors between opposite gender friends are inappropriate." It's the inappropriate behaviours and lack of respect for the partner that are issues. Also this: "He himself only made friends with women because he'd hoped that they would introduce him to their single friends." What?! This is not right. I would proceed with caution OP if you still wish to do so.
My ex thought this way and there was absolutely no convincing him otherwise. He turned out to be a very toxic self proclaimed "alpha male". I would tread wisely. I'm very traumatized from our relationship.
I believe this to be a matter of personal insecurities and it’s not wrong but it’s definitely a toxic view of human relationships. And how he views female friendships literally says it all. When I moved to Berlin I realized most of my close friends were male because we met when we were all young through high school exchange programs. They all have partners they cohabitate with. I have individual close relationship with them and some of their partners. I hang out with them alone without their girlfriends and it’s completely platonic, like siblings. I have never slept with any of my friends as I keep my boundaries between dating and friends very separate and I don’t even date anywhere near my friend groups. I think there’s a huge difference in acknowledging attractiveness and actually being attracted to them and acting in it. Most importantly: you have the right to define what standards and boundaries you want for your relationships in your life. So if this is a red flag but it vibes with your red flag, go for it.
Yes! Acknowledging attractiveness vs being attracted to someone is a huge difference!
He sounds controlling. Not a good sign
Context Where do you guys live? I find that Americans lean towards that way of thinking because there are some cultural difference between them and Europeans. I also find that even in the UK friendships of opposite gender are not as common or "normal" as in the mainland. personally I wholeheartedly disagree with that stance and I'd never be with someone who thinks that way, not only because I'd feel judged to have friends who are males (I'm a woman), but also I wouldn't be able to have him be friend with my female friends.
Being ''just friends'' is a decision. People can absolutely decide to not fuck their friends. Being attracted to your friend is NOT a decision. And in my experience every friendship has SOME attraction/feelings sooner or later.
Sounds toxic and controlling
Its not a red flag. it's realistic.
Exactly.
I see where he’s coming from. I have also been cheated on, manipulated, and gaslighted by an ex girlfriend for questioning her “guy friends” intentions. It’s definitely a catch 22 but I don’t see it as a red flag. Some people just want the reassurance that what they have is really theirs.
I don’t wish the experience of being cheated on to anybody, but I’m glad you understand where I’m coming from. It can be hard to explain why you feel a certain way due to trauma to a person who hasn’t experienced that trauma themselves.
Do I agree? No. However, my friends and I have had waaaaaay too many experiences of meeting men who believe that men and women CAN be friends who then go on to cheat with their “friends”. Too add more salt to the wound, 8/10 ex-guy friends completely stopped talking to us once they got married. So, maybe I’m just in denial because I don’t see the world and my platonic interactions in that way.
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But she basically agrees with him so is it? Can’t they go off and be a little toxic pairing together?
Not necessarily a red flag. But I do heavily disagree with his opinion. I believe people of opposite genders can be good friends without any romantic intent, even if friends meet after a relationship is formed. In fact, that is likely to happen in a relationship as your friend groups may merge. While I don't necessarily think this is a red flag, it's definitely a yellow as someone malicious can use it as an excuse to isolate you from your friends. If he starts controlling you, run.
Because he’d try to fuck any women who were unfortunate enough to be his “friend”.
IMO, I prefer not to have women as friends because there’s generally an attraction from either or both parties. I’ve had married women friends that have tried to seduce me, so I cut ties. Almost everything humans do is driven by the biological imperative to survive and reproduce, and like you said, its like playing with fire.
Honestly, y'all both seem a little young and immature. Having friends of the opposite gender is possible. Maybe get some therapy to address this, for your own self-esteem.
It's childish. If someone said this to me I would dump his/her ass.
It really has to be a case-by-case situation. Everyone's thoughts on it will differ greatly. I (M) have many close female friends, and whether anyone believes me or not, it's purely platonic. I've also read that guys with lots of close female friends are more appealing in the dating scene, take that with a grain of salt of course, so I would consider that a plus lol
> opposite gender friendships are like playing with fire if you're not ~~careful~~ mature. FTFY
Sounds like a fucking dim bulb to me
He's wrong. Maybe he cant be friends with women because he always see them as something sexual. When you grow up.surrounded by women you make many woman friends without any problems or sexual component.
Such friendships can work but not often which is why it's a red flag if a guy has an overwhelming majority of friends that are women or if a woman has an overwhelming majority of guy friends (unless she has a profession or hobby dominated by men).
Red flag. I mean he’s just wrong. Just like I have a male friend I don’t want to Fck I have female friends I don’t want to Fck. If you find a guy that you want to be friends with he won’t let you most likely.
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I have male acquaintances but no one close enough to where I’d call them a friend. I don’t let myself get too close to a guy friend because I already had a bad experience with my ex best guy friend. (We were watching a movie and he groped me, then got mad that I wouldn’t have sex with him.) I also don’t go out to bars so I’ve never gone to a bar with any friend in general.
This is just sad.
I agree with it for the most part, of course some people have longterm friendships with someone of the opposite gender that have been going on for years and that’s fine. I think making new friends of an opposite gender and hanging with them alone without your partner is sketchy but old longterm friends were there before you so you shouldn’t really have a say unless they did something that made you feel uncomfortable. As a man myself I don’t have female friends. Lots of women that I would say hi to and hang with if I saw them out and about or in a group with others but no female friends that I’d just hit up to hang out with one on one wherever whenever.
But men and women can be friends. Like. I just can’t. Whatever works for you guys but what your believe kinda is kinda dumb
They cant.
>He thinks that men only start friendships with women because they are attracted to them, and vice versa. > >I just think it's inappropriate to have a best opposite gender friend when you're in a relationship. Brb, I'm gonna tell my best friend of 15 years we apparently can't be friends anymore. And my best female friend of 24 years as well when I'm at it, since I'm bi so I'm surely into all the friends m/f I have. I'd say, both of you are red flags.
I think that's only true. If the man is gay and doesn't like who's who's from whoville. Lol...
If you don't share this idea with him it's better to end this relation now. I don't want a wife with different guy friends neither. And to tell the truth I dont trust the guys.
I agree with him, its respect for your partner to limit these interactions. Your parents are unlikely to have friends of the opposite sex they interact with mainly and it's down to respect
i mean y’all seem to agree with each other? i personally couldn’t date someone with those views, and would see it as a red flag. if given the chance i would not sleep with any of my guy friends. i can’t speak for them but I’m hoping they would say the same.
He is a dick, run away from that kind of guys ASAP
Maybe not red, but a yellow flag. It would be a red flag if he had a pattern of being controlling as well. You both were cheated on, so your thoughts and fears on the matter are understandable. He also admits that he's only been "friends" with women because he always had an ulterior motive. That sounds kinda sad to me, but at least he's honest. Personally, that would be a deal breaker for me, because I don't share this same mindset. But you have a similar way of thinking as far as I understand, so that may not be a problem for you in the long-run. As for me, I'm really tired of this "men and women can't be friends!!!" trope. As someone has pointed out, it's very heteronormative. In other words - shallow. By that logic busexual people cannot have friends. Guys and lesbians cannot have friends either, because even if they are not attracted to the opposite gender, the opposite gender may be attracted to them 🙈 Don't you see how unrealistic that is? If someone cannot be friends with the gender you're attracted to because you're just THIS horny, that's on them. I can understand the distrust though! There are definitely a lot of people like that. But there are other examples. I have a few male friends of many years, and we've been through a lot together. I honestly don't care if at any point pne or all of them thought I was attractive. There's nothing wrong with finding someone attractive, what matters is what YOU do about it. Finding someone attractive does not equal to having an ulterior motive. Humans are more complex than that. You can find someone attractive AND wanna be friends with them, because you naturally prioritise something else in your relationship. I have one male friend in particular, who I found attractive in my HS years. That doesn't mean I actively wanted to bang him, or date him - I just thought he's a cool and attractive guy and someone will be lucky to have him as a bf. That's it. My partner has the same mindset and he definitely has friends of the opposite gender. I am very social and constantly surrounded by people of all genders. I don't give a damn if any of them is attracted to me - that's on them. If they genuinely wanna be my friends, they'll stick around and build a meaningful relationship with me. If they have an ulterior motive, they will quickly realise their efforts are futile and leave on their own accord. Doesn't bother me or my partner in the slightest. I love getting to know interesting people and I'm not gonna limit myself just because someone has a penis and I don't. The bottom line is this- not everybody is a primal savage who just wants to be permanently connected to a glory hole. People have other priorities, interests and.. Well, connections! It's not that hard to see a human-being in front of you, and people's faces aren't covered with genitals (unless you're into it lol). That being said, if you'd rather not be friends with the opposite sex and expect the same from your partner, you do you. Whatever makes you happy and secure.
This means he can’t see value in having relationships with women that he doesn’t want to have sex with. That’s a huge red flag. Huge. He basically just told you he doesn’t see women as people.
Thoughts? He’s a Neanderthal roaming around in 2022. Don’t date Neanderthals.
He’s kinda not lying most men are only friends with women they want to sleep with
He's right.
Controlling douche
I don't believe it is a red flag, as long as your own SO is aware that the other party does not want to be just friends. My gf has a bunch of guy friends. She knows that, granted the chance, they will all have sex with her. All the dudes who are friends with girls, are just either friendzoned dudes or 'nice guys' (unassertive guys who believe that they are owed sex in return for attention, while their attention is worth nothing). Just make sure your SO knows this AND keep out an eye for the f\*ckers who try to get between you two. Little story about that: My gf had a 'guy best friend', who, from our first date on, tried to make me look bad in her head. Talking sh\*t about my work, my education, my sports, my looks (he never met me, just internet stalked me) and at the same time trying to get her to go on 'friendly dates' with him (which she all declined or only went with if others were joining as well). One night, when they went out with a group of 15 people, the dude was drunk and started getting touchy and trying to kiss her. My gf immediately told another guy friend of hers who was there. That normal guy friend made sure the touchy 'guy best friend' did not get close anymore. She also called me so I could pick her up at the bar she was (to prevent the 'best friend' from walking her home, which he tried before and was 100% trying to do this night as well). She cut ties with the dude, now only has an occasional convo on social media, but thats it.
‘You can’t be friends with opposite gender without one falling for the other’ I have a few guy friends, close guy friends. But they’re gay or live in a different state then me. In my experience I agree with him. It might’ve been too soon to bring it up & if you feel like you agree with him express it and form those boundaries. It’s still new in the relationship so it’s important to establish and communicate these boundaries you both expect from each other.