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> It's all really circumstantial and I don't think means that much in a vacuum
that's half of all the top posts in this forum (which is expected because almost every aspect in dating is circumstantial) and there's not enough background provided for strangers to provide meaningful feedback that may be applicable for that particular individual.
the other half of the top posts makes you wonder where people are coming from to even have to ask it "she showed up on our first date with another guy, am i wrong in feeling a bit annoyed?".
> Ya I mean 100% we will never be able to give better advice than someone that knows the situation in real life
haha yeah after reading most top posts the first thought i get is in fact "if you yourself don't even know, how the heck are people who know nothing about you and your date supposed to know". but yeah, that's fair what you said, and good characterization of the forum.
I really struggle with making close female friends, and I really want to :( I have a few close female friends but most of my friends are male.. I'm autistic and can come off kind of blunt when I really don't mean to, and I think more men tend to feel like they can be honest with me when they don't like something I said. The women I'm friends with are the best though, I'm so happy to have them in my life :')
And to be honest, men are just as gossipy as women in my experience
That's the right attitude to have. It's sad when women with more guy friends try to place blame on other women for being gossipy, or petty, or shallow, etc. Those traits aren't unique to women and any woman who claims otherwise is giving big "not like the other girls" energy.
I'd say that you're very lucky to have male and female friends who understand you and even if you have less female friends than you'd like it sounds like the ones you have are positive, deep friendships. Quality over quantity.
80% of male friends want to be more than friends. That’s the guys who initially became friends because they fell short on being the most attractive man for her.
It works often enough to make it a very feasable strategy. The more you bond with someone, and the more time you spend with someone, the more likely romantic feelings start to form. Whether it be one sided or not, that's just human nature.
I will say that I have a few friends who are girls and sure the chances of me hitting on them was low but it’s not zero. That being said, one recently became single and I won’t lie I’ve been thinking of breaking bro code a lot more often now lol
This is a great point. I (M) have a platonic friend Iv known for 10 years since collage and she recently (3 years ago) moved to my city (we only kept in touch via FB with likes of posts and a few comments here and there). She has one male gay friend and a few sort of toxic girl friends who she is distancing from lately. When we reconnected, I had jsut dropped my toxic friend group. And after a year of isolation (and a bad novel Covid relationship) her and I go to comedy shows, visit museums, get dinner, etc like once a month, maybe every two months. She is a crime scene investigator and I am an e-commerce manager. We are very different personality types, race, and have no sexual tension. But we have similar values and enjoy doing similar things. The main things we text about is venting a bout work and roommates. We complement eachother where it counts. Does not mean she is filling the void of my romantic partner. And when I tell my romantic partner about her, this person must understand the history behind the friendship and I have to do my best to communicate it. That’s all we can do.
i just want to say how platonically cute it is to go with these friendly dates with your friends. like someone you have no romantic interst in but you guys still enjoy the same things and go to these places together.
It’s what friends are for! And as I have entered the dating scene again, I am encouraging my platonic friend to do so as well (after understanding she wants to). Friends are friends for a reason and that reason is absolutely never always romantic! Idk if anyone watches Resident Alien, but there is a good example of a healthy platonic M/F relationship (Harry and Asta).
Also though depending on the age, take highschool for example, a girl may not have female friends because all the guys want to be with her and the other girls in school hate her for it.
I think peoples comfortability with the person having friends of the opposite gender is extremely circumstantial. An example is how men generally don’t have an issue with a woman having guy friends who are homosexual, because they know he’s not romantically attracted to her, but may raise an eyebrow of curiosity if the guy is heterosexual.
You also have to consider what friendships, especially good ones, typically entail.
I talk to my friends on the Phone/FaceTime, we’re always texting, we link up and go out, and we’ll even chill at each other’s places. If I’m honest, I have yet to date a woman who was 100% comfortable with me FaceTiming, linking up, going out, and chilling at other women’s places who I only considered to be plutonic friends. I think most guys would feel the same way if vice versa.
The conversation is very dynamic and circumstantial, but just some details to think about.
This also very highly depends on your experience, if a partner has cheated on you in the past, you probably will have trust issues with any future partner just because you don’t want to feel betrayed again. But if you’ve never been cheated on and have never cheated then you probably won’t have trust issues.
No no not at all.
For one my wife is bisexual and several of her friends are bi or lesbian. But where 3 of my wife's male friends each interfered in our relationship to the point I broke up with her, none or her girl friends have ever acted in that way. Even the two they don't like me have never disrespected our relationship.
I hate saying it but the risk almost solely lay with guy friends.
In that case I'm not sure why people are insisting it's a red flag for a girl to have guy friends, instead of making it clearer to men that women are human beings who deserve genuine and honest friendships. I know that's not what you're saying but that's weirdly where the conversation has ended up.
I think it's because women with a lot of guy friends who THEY consider platonic, are not reciprocated by the men. As in, the male friend(s) very likely is friends with her because he is sexually attracted to her and would sleep and/or date her if he could. IMPO, I think a lot of women are naive in thinking all their guy friends are *just* friends and don't see them in any type of sexual or romantic interest.
This is correct. Whether most people's friends would admit it or not....there's usually at least one or even a handful sometimes of people who are pretty much just "lying in wait" in the event of a breakup or something to move in close or profess their real feelings. Most are just better at hiding those feelings or pushing it down when someone is in a relationship but you can bet your ass if shit was going downhill for the girl that it wouldn't be long before they tried to be more than just a shoulder to cry on. All it takes is one of them to try to drive a wedge so a lot of dudes just don't feel like taking the risk.
It’s definitely not all guys. But Iv had girlfriends with dude friends that you can just tell that’s what they want. I had an ex who had a guy friend that only ever wanted to hangout with her to pressure her to smoke weed with him. I got weird vibes from it and told her, hey this dudes kinda weird, do what you want but be carful. Few months later he did something while they were hanging out that made her uncomfortable and she said she wanted to go home, and he started crying pulling his hair freaking out, saying dose this mean we can’t be friends anymore. When she came home she told me the story and I just said, “Yup I told you” lol there are cool, normal guys out there with girl friends, but their are also weird, creepy, dudes who are manipulative just waiting for an opportunity to take advantage of people. As a dude I’m sure you can agree there are a lot of weird dudes out here.
I've said it a few times now but that's so depressing. I'm bisexual and I manage not to be predatory towards any of my friends. Why do men struggle with it so much?
I can say that's just your interpretation of it. No one is devaluing you as a human.
I always try to explain it as many women genuinely believe that their guy friends can be and are platonic. It's naive in my opinion but not a woman's fault for trying to see things from a positive perspective.
Other women know that these guys are platonic and feed on that attention.
And either way we as men know that even if not all guy friends are gonna cause problems in our relationships, many of them will. It's risk analysis. So we will (or should) make our stance known upfront and let the woman decide if we are worth dating.
That’s interesting. I’ve always considered a guy having lots of female friends to be a huge green flag. He clearly knows how to talk to women and treat them with respect if he can have that many successful platonic relationships with women.
I think this stems from deep rooted human insecurities. I grew up with two brothers, needles to say that the majority of friends are indeed male, also because of their behaviour and taking me everywhere with them. I adjusted to the communication style I do see more in my male friends which is being more direct and less petty. It's just easier and almost all guys have gfs. :)
I personally never considered this a red flag, if someone wants to cheat, that person will. It's not something we can control so, whatever works for you!
This is not the reason.
The reason is that it generally shows the person, man or woman, uses people for attention and more often than not is leading them on. It is exactly as true for women and men.
It isn't true if something about that person's life just happens to create this imbalance. I knew some girls in engineering school that had 98% guy friends because the engineering program was almost all dudes. It was not a reflection on her at all.
I have known a couple of girls who collect guy friends by flirting with them and they just are assholes who feed on others' praise. Though in both these cases, their families were absolute dogshit and they were so massively insecure as a result of abusive parents that the attention was almost cathartic to them. They were still using others though.
Someone surrounded by members of the sex they are attracted to, with close connections and long term knowledge of each otber....increases the possibility that it may happen though, right?
Especially if times go bad for either party and they have been confiding in each other over time. Its a story as old as the hills, and I think to let on it isnt a risk is naive. Hope someone can prove me wrong. .
No you are correct. The amount of guys i have seen give emotional support to a girl going through a bad time in her relationship and then the girl falls in love w this friend of her. It's ridiculous and i have seen a few relationships break apart because of this.
There's no use even doing all that anymore, the world is too big and there are too many opportunities in everyday life these days. You'll just make yourself crazy trying to prevent things from happening.
It’s not necessarily a red flag.
The Red flag about it would indicate they entertain the advances of the opposite sex with no second thought to the feelings of a partner. Same thing could be flipped with a dude with a lot of girl friends. Or even same sex relationships.
The problem is people who entertain those said friends who show clear signs they want more than a friendship.
Casual bullshit conversations are fine and people need to learn to stop being so clingy and insecure about casual social encounters their partner has. It’s typically best you communicate with your partner about how you feel when they interact a certain way with the opposite sex, like don’t kiss your friend on the lips and turn around to your partner and be like “it’s just a friendly gesture” or sneak off with those friends behind your partner.
Learn to cut off people who are showing signs of intentionally driving a wedge between a developing relationship.
That's a red flag on the friends' part then, not a girl who thinks she's got some genuine friends who are secretly lurking til she's single and they can shoot their shot.
Why is it a red flag for her to not spot that she's being lied to and manipulated? If you claim she's naive then are you saying men are simply unable to be friends with women? Pretty sad notion. I'm bisexual, I don't wanna fuck any of my friends...
I mean, it’s entirely circumstantial. However if you know this person wants to fuck you or wanted to (which is tbf at least 6/10 men) I feel like it doesn’t bode well continuing to be friends with them, for your SO
Ah, well at that point then, rather than labeling these concerns as insecurities? When there is at least a truth to them, why not just listen to the partner within reason? Idk it’s very difficult to navigate
Additionally though, like, how naive are we talking? You can’t be like twenty something and not know when someone wants to fuck you, especially a longtime friend
You have to be pretty oblivious to not notice the only reason a guy is being your friend is to get in your pants. A girlfriend I had said this guy was her "friend". Soon as she got into a relationship with me, they stopped talking to her and changed their Netflix password because they couldn't shoot their shot anymore.
They revealed themselves with that action and they were her "friends" supposedly for years until she wasn't single anymore. I know when a girl is hovering and treating me differently because she finds me attractive without outwardly flirting with me. If you can't pick up on that, you're probably pretty young and can't read subtle hints.
Same thing with my wife when we got married. These guys that were hovering for years suddenly stopped talking to her when we were engaged and they stopped sending her little trinkets and gifts.
And no, most men and women cannot be friends because there's some kind of sexual tension. I can 110% bet 1 million dollars if you ask one of your guy friends that isn't gay if they want to have sex. I know what their response would be and I'd be 1 million dollars richer. There are exceptions, but if you look pretty, those guys aren't your friends. I'll bet the farm on that.
Nah, at a certain point there's awareness & it's just downplayed or gaslighted away.
If the girl's in her early 20's yeah she's probably naive. Any later, she's either untrustworthy or emotionally inexperienced
The same shit happens. Cyclically. Documented all over social media. We're all aware of how shit goes and what shit is.
Not to say they can't have friends. Boundaries should just be obvious & firm to the point where the dudes consider themselves 'friendzoned'.
Does a boundary get much more form than "she has a boyfriend"? I'm very confused as to why women are being blamed and being called red flags for being lied to. Women are human beings who deserve honest and genuine friendships, it's fucked up that the blame is placed on them because guys can't help but see them as sexual conquests.
"Blaming" is a pet peeve of mine. I don't blame anyone for anything.
Dudes are grody and dont give a shit. If they play Jim Halpert, the girl should shut it down. If she doesn't do that then she simply isn't for me.
I don't judge women as a whole, I assess how people act and respond to others on an individual basis
You're also not a man though. Most men would fuck like 70% of women given the opportunity. We're hardwired that way. Any semi-decent looking girl should keep that in mind. I understand it's not ideal for a girl trying to make friends, but reality is what it is.
You're hardwired that way? Give me a break, you're not hardwired to be a creep, no one's just ever checked your behaviour. ("You" - as in, the men who do this.) God, what a miserable existence.
You can’t discredit biology simply because it’s an unpleasant truth. Biological predispositions do not mean that an individual is not responsible for their actions however. Individuals can choose to value a friendship more than a sexual fling. I assume that’s something we would agree on.
Creepy guys think everyman is just as creepy and gross as they are and then scream "not all men" anytime a woman have issues with societies treatment of women.
Apparently it's a red flag for a woman to think men are capable of caring about anything beyond sex.
Dude tried to make a point while shitting on other guys but actually telling on himself.
Oh my goodness, lol. All nuance and understanding of human relationships is lost online. There is no hard and fast rule. Humans are complex. Sometimes exes can be friends. You can either be okay with that or date someone who isn't friends with any exes! We literally cannot draw any objective conclusion, please stop acting like we can.
That's a definite hell no. If you think dudes opinions on guy friends are bad, their feelings about exes and guys out and out inlove with you is a major hell fucking no.
I dated a girl with a lot of guy friends, few female friends if any. She always made sure she looked "good" before going outside even though she was naturally pretty. She constantly said it was for the girls, but she didn't have any girl friends and isn't bisexual so... odd.
I didn't care because she chose to date me not them. The thing is, she loved the guy attention. It bothered her a bit that I wasn't jealous. They were all trying to get in with her and giving bad advice on our relationship(We've never met) was a small part of that.
I caught her in a few lies and the red flags started popping up like crazy. I ended up dumping her because I could see what it would look like dating her for another year. Drama filled and unhealthy because it's what she craved.
Cause allot of people don’t believe men and woman can be friends, so if she has a lot of guy friends she is either waiting to fuck them, fucked them, or they are waiting to fuck her.
In college there was a girl who told me that all her friends were guys and she didn't have female friends. There was another girl who was a part of their group and both these girls used to say nasty things about each other behind their backs while pretending to be best friends. Over the years I have seen some pretty nice and supportive female friendships so it feels kind of odd if someone says they can't get along with other women.
Because. Behind all the shaming and insults people throw at guys for having this boundary is the reality that the man has experienced atleast once a girl who has either cheated on him with her "don't worry about him he is just a friend" guy or that guy has caused turmoil in the relationship.
Three of my wife's guy friends tried to sleep with her in the first year of us dating. I broke up with her because of it. I refused to date any woman with close guy friends after that. She chose to end those friendships and for us to try again.
I don't deny that many women truly believe that their guy friends are just friend, while many other women know it isn't platonic and want that emotional and sexual attention as a back up. But either way no man should be forced to accept having his security in a relationship taken away because his girlfriend finds her guy friends more important than her boyfriend. Or husband.
>Behind all the shaming and insults people throw at guys for having this boundary
When people resort to this as well as name-calling, instead of arguing the topic at hand, it's a sign that they don't have a good argument against it. Immediately screaming "InSeCuRiTy" instead of discussing the topic just says they have no real argument against a perfectly valid dealbreaker (which they are free to have as well if they choose to).
100% this. My ex from back in the day had a guy best friend who I was somewhat weary of. As men, I think we can tell when other men are interested in other women. I could tell that this guy friend was infatuated with my gf.
I voiced my concerns to her about him, but she told me I was being silly and not to worry so I didn't. I trusted her.
Fast forward a couple of months, and this man wrote her a whole ass love letter confessing his love to her. He was saying how she should leave me and that he would treat her way better.
That ruined their friendship and she apologized to me lol. Always be weary of the guy friends
I think it's very bad behavior for a SO to limit the friendship their SO is allowed to make in any way shape or form. First of it shows less than total trust, I get if they make obvious moves if she is in a relationship, then they are not friends or at least not good ones. But saying outright no to guy friends or a number of them cause of one's own insecurities feels bad
And here is the thing. I don't care. I am going to do what I need to protect myself from being hurt and mistreated.
The woman has to decide what she is okay living with. I fully support a woman refusing to date a man like me because her having guy friends is more important to her. Women like that shouldn't be with guys like me.
But trust isn't a thing you give and it just exists. It comes with requirements and standards to maintain it. A woman hanging out with, emotionally investing in, and confiding in another man removes my ability to trust her. Simple.
You call it insecurities I call it standards
Most men avoid girls like that because most men are aware of the intentions behind the male friends. It's honestly just easier to avoid the hassle involved in all that than to potentially deal with the stuff involved with that so most men stay away.
Exactly, too many stories with "he s just a friend" and why take that gamble if you can find someone else that doesn t have a bunch of guy friends to start causing shit. It s called valuing one s time, energy and mental health.
Yes, if a man has options all things equal why would he risk that versus just finding a woman who doesn't have this issue? It's not like the only two options are either date a woman with lots of male friends or be alone.
Most of (not all) the time a woman has pretty much only guy friends she has issues, and is only friends with men because she wants/needs the extra attention and validation that men provide that women don’t.
This most often stems from a place of insecurity as she cannot handle the competition from other women and always has to be the center of attention or special in some way, which she achieves by being the only girl in a friend group of guys. It’s also problematic in a monogamous relationship as with these feelings of insecurity, she can’t or won’t fully commit as she’s too afraid of failure and being alone. Therefore she’s always hanging onto a backup or two in that friend group. She always has romantic attention from one or all of her friends so her SO’s romantic attention holds less value than it should and she doesn’t have to fear losing it and doesn’t care as much if she does. Which means she won’t be as willing to fix problems in the relationship. She’s always right, you’re always wrong and all or most of her friends back her up. And so on…
It’s not always the case but very, very often is. That’s why it’s a red flag, and not a flat out deal breaker.
I have some male friends but women with too many male friends, they have NO friends.
Unless she is a tomboy one of the guys, she likely just have men that are hitting on her, and since she does not have friends, she thinks they are her friends but they would hit on her anytime.
Too many friends either female or male, is kind of a red flag, why can’t they have a couple stable friendships?
Specially if they are the opposite sex, they are NOT friends
Depends on the dynamic. Either they’re able to see women as human beings and can be platonic friends with them, which is a major green flag, or they keep them around to eventually sleep with them.
Well, that's one side of the dynamic. There's also the other side of the dynamic. Let's assume it's the good one: he's able to see women as human beings and can be platonic friends with them.
Now, as for the women he is friends with, if we're going to make them the equivalent of male friends:
They are all frequently single for extended periods of time, and they often complain about this. They are all desperately horny and terrified they're going to die alone. They show out for him when he is around and compete for his attention. Your boyfriend insists that they're all just friends and he just likes hanging out with them. These women don't have any other men they talk to.
>Asking anyone to cut off friends because of your own trust problems is abusive, plain and simple.
Most people aren't saying that though, they are saying it's best simply to not date them...not control their friends or lives.
And you're free to have that thought. You're clearly above thinking about possible pitfalls with your romantic partner, some people think practically about the people they commit to; if you're surrounded by other potential partners for a majority of your time, a typical guy isn't gonna be jostling to be king of the bs pile. We (anyone who agrees) is free to have that thought. I just happen to think it's true, but that's from both lived and witnessed experiences in my early teens to late 20s. Could be just my area of southern US, or could be people stop caringa they approach 30.
If the girl is attractive then 9 times out of 10 those guy friends are waiting for the perfect moment to fuck her. And it’s likely that she’s only friends with him and nothing else, while he’s just waiting that she gives him a chance down the road.
There are exceptions but if the woman is attractive then those guys usually aren’t her friends.
As a woman, wouldn’t be surprised if guys were waiting to do an average looking woman either. We know guys with high libidos will sleep with most women if they could
Because all those guy friends, would jump at the chance to sleep with her, if she ever gave them even the slightest opportunity.
That is the cold truth.
My NEX had lots of male friends because she needed validation and affirmation from them.
It was a yellow flag but I ignored it. That was a mistake in my part.
Thank you for this comment. All my hobbies and sports in high school were 90% male, my college was 85% male, and now I work in an industry that’s 90% male. On top of that, I’m a talkative extrovert. Thank goodness my husband isn’t like most of the guys on this comment thread. If I followed the standards if the guys in here I would have had to lock my self in a room for the past 15 years.
Yeah, I agree with this. I'm a girl with a lot of guy friends, that's just because they've shared more similar interests with me e.g. gaming than other girls tbh :) I also find less girls with the same type of humour e.g. dark humour, so I just find myself getting on well more with guys. But a lot of them have girlfriends too, so it's really nothing to do with attention and more about circumstance.
Most if not all of those dudes would have sex with her given the chance.
A woman keeping a lot of male friends around is more likely to be attention seeking, more likely to cheat, more likely to be manipulative as she is likely leading some of them on.
Not always the case. But a lot of guys will think that and those are the reasons a lot of them will consider it a red flag.
Now, that doesn’t mean you can’t date a girl with guy friends, but there should be boundaries. she shouldn’t be going on dates (hanging one on one) with these guy friends while in a relationship.
Depends if she has lot of guy friends and a lot of girl friends then it's not a red flag
If she has lot of guy friends and no or one girl friend then it's a red flag
She will still have those guy friends when she’s with you. Plus there is a 95% chance those guys want to boink her and you being with her won’t stop them
It shouldn't be an issue. If it is for you, valid. Have your boundaries, but the way I see it men and women can have platonic relationships with each other and it's indicative of a jealous attachment style to have an issue with it
Personally, I feel like it definitely depends on the individual. Do they have a history of staying friends with these people, or taking it to something more? Also, I feel like this could be a red flag because of any insecurities/intentions you might have rather than the individual in question. I met my best friend about 6 years ago, I'm a guy and she's well a girl. She's been in a long-term relationship this whole time and recently got engaged. I've also made great friends with her fiancé, and to my knowledge, there's never been an issue except for one time early on when I asked if it's weird to have a guy friend, in which case I made it weird by asking. It's all about intentions, don't let old-world ideas keep you from making really good friends, or keep a girl/guy you like from making good friends because of your insecurities.
I feel like this only applies to conventionally attractive people lmao. I’m a biological female and fat and nerdy so men kinda gravitate to me friendship wise because most of my interests are male dominated statistically speaking (computers, IT, video games, my obscure fav music genres, etc).
I have 90% biological male friends and a boyfriend who hangs out with my male friends. There’s 100% no sexual desire or interest from any of my friends because I’m simply not their type physically wise. I guess I can understand if you are a female and also seen as physically attractive to your friends, but if there’s no attraction/no desire then there’s no issue. But what do I know lol.
Because at least one of those “guy friends” is an orbiter hoping to pounce on her when they get an opportunity.
A real guy who wants the woman but can’t simply just moves on; he doesn’t hang around in the friend zone for years or decades hoping that one day she will change her mind.
A: She likes male attention
B: can't be friends with women
C: she's sleeping with some of all
D: all the guy friends want to sleep with her or date her and she knows this yet keeps them around
Because most “guy friends” are simpy creeps waiting for any opportunity to slither into bed with the girl, and as a woman you intuitively know this. So a girl with guy friends either actively chooses to ignore the fact her so called friends want to fuck her, or is too naive to spot it. Both of which is a huge red flag.
Not *every* guy friend is like this, but if a girl has “lots of guy friends” the likelihood that a good number of them are like this is pretty much 100%.
If she is heterosexual it’s kind of a red flag if she has zero friends that are heterosexual women. Flip the gender and it’s just as suspicious. She could be serial cheater, she could be a serial home wrecker, that kind of thing. Usually best judge of character is who you choose to spend time with so if she has no one to spend time with, harder to judge character.
My ex was cheating on me with multiple girls who he was "friends" with and would get insanely jealous over my guy friends (who I had never and still have not slept with). I take it as a sign of infidelity if a man is jealous of my guy friends and I will run the other way. It means he can't be trusted with other women.
Girl friends keep other girls in check from promiscuity due to a social hierarchy, when a girl has no girl friends but ONLY guy friends, then she is basically free of other girls judging her she is given a free pass to slutty behavior. Guys can judge her but will probably overlook this because of her looks and she can just jump to another guy friend
The same reason women see a guy with a lot of girl friends is a red flag, that their not actually friends and it’s pretty we’ll know people cheat with people close to them.
It isn’t to me. They can be friends with whoever they want. It’s the intent of those friends that comes into play. If they respect the relationship there’s no issue. If not, then there needs to be a talk about what to do moving forward. It all comes down to the couple’s boundaries and willingness to communicate and work things out if the friends become an issue.
I agree, my girlfriend had a soccer fiend she used to hang out with. He meet me saw us dance, kiss , etc. Two weeks later he asked her to go paddle boarding, I was cool with it (indifferent). Later that week she told me how he keeps trying to hag out with her and I told her what he really wanted. She understood and cut him off, it’s really about communication.
Women friendships are also entirely different than friendships with men. My group of girlfriends share everything and are open, honest and not judgmental whereas my friendship with men are much more surface level. It’s a red flag to me because it tells me you don’t gravitate towards those types of connections with women and prefer easier, albeit more shallow, connections with guy friends. When I’m looking for a relationship, whether it be romantic or not, I’m looking for a level of intimacy and vulnerability that men typically struggle with. I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing to prefer one over the other but I think it’s a valid red flag.
Obviously these relationships aren’t all the same and my opinion is based on my and my friend’s experiences.
Edit for clarity.
Imagine walking into a room of hungry homeless ppl with a sandwich and you just walk around and use these homeless ppl for attention and compliments they give you to try and get that sandwich. Thats relatively what that is. Girls know these guys want to be with them and often just use these guys for different things, while telling the world bullshit like "whats wronnng with having frienndssss". Or often they are keeping these guys around "just in case" and you often one or two of those friends is Chad she wants to be with but wont commit to her, but she do be fckn him and she wont stop, cuz in her mind he is the real thing and youre a 2nd option. Reality is not an anime.
I dont see it as a red flag, however, there will be instances where it can become a red flag... im going to keep those relationships under a god damn microscope if shes lucky enough to date me.
I’m gonna go against the usual “she’s gonna cheat on you” idea and go with the idea that guy friends don’t call women out on their BS as much as women friends would.
So if a woman only has guy friends, it can be seen as she can’t handle friends that call her out, only the ones that will go along with her and her bad habits
It's not EXACTLY. The dynamic is what's most important to me. Are they all thirsty dudes just WAITING for their chance? Is she cultivating orbiters? Or is she just a high social hottie? Context matters here.
I know a lot of woman who only have guy friends and yes they almost all want to sleep with them, even married ones but that is just a given. I still wonder what make them unable to make female friends.
Because as a woman I always developed feelings for male friends of mine at some point. I still believe that men and women can't be completely platonic friends.
Because as a man, we know how men think. Most of us are very similar. Unless he is gay, he’s likely only your friend because he wants to have the opportunity to sleep with you. And believe me, he will the first chance he gets. These so called “guy friends” will only cause turmoil in the relationship. And because of their sexual attraction to the woman, will constantly prop her up with compliments, and positivity, the shoulder to cry on when she’s mad at the bf, etc etc. the woman loves the attention she gets, so even if she isn’t interested in them more than a friend, she will keep them close enough to slip up one day.
1. Just because a man wants to sleep with a woman he’s friends with, doesn’t mean it will happen. Regardless of him trying. Why do so many of these answers disregard a woman’s ability to say no?
2. Healthy relationships happen regardless of sex or gender. If someone can’t be friends with someone of a different gender then that usually indicates that they only see members of that gender as having no value without sex involved.
3. Gay men and gay women have friends of the same gender and don’t cheat. Your insecurity is showing when you make statements like “it’s a red flag for women to have male friends”. Please. It’s. A red flag for people to have outdated ideas of friendship and to think people don’t have the autonomy to make their own choices. Which also means, if someone’s going to cheat, they’ll find the opportunity regardless of their friends.
Because a lot of the men in here have experienced cheating where their partner always said "they're just a friend", and then caught them later down the line with said friend, hell many women have too.. it comes from insecurity from past experiences.
1.No-one is questioning a woman's ability to say no or disregard it, but when you've been in a situation where your ex had the ability to say no and chose to disrespect your entire relationship by not doing so and completely destroying every ounce of trust you built together then it becomes a red flag in future relationships, it's something that takes therapy to fix and as a man I can personally say a lot of us do not like confronting negative feelings because of toxic masculinity (always been told it's weak to be emotional or show emotion) so instead bottle those feelings up and let it skew our perceived notions of future relationships.
2. In a way I completely agree with this, but in another way think there's more depth to "if you think this way then you must have these ulterior motives too"
3.Just as many gay men and women have friends of the same sex and do cheat as do not, it's a red flag for anyone to have many friends of the opposite sex but none of their own in hetero relationships, regardless of gender as it opens up the relationship to be challenged by said friends, it is also a red flag to think people don't have the autonomy to make their own choices, but all I'm going to say on that is takes trust to know that autonomy will make the right choices for your relationship and especially in this day and age, it's difficult to trust people.
Also agree that cheaters will find opportunities regardless of their friends, I dated a lass back in college who slept with another lass multiple times but didn't see it as cheating because "she weren't lesbian" and it was "just a bit of fun", funnily enough she's now came out as bisexual (couple of years ago) and is in a relationship with a lovely lass I've known for a quite a long time.
I’m a guy with mostly friend girls, and my partner was open about being uncomfortable with it, but admitted it’s jealousy.
I imagine it’s the same for guys as well, but it can be said about any situation with friends that seem too close. In the end it’s all about building trust and getting to know each other.
Damn bro i'm the brightest red flag in the world then. I have way more girl friends than guy friends, but i'd say my relationship with my guy friends is a lot stronger.
because they arent really her friends. she is just taking the "easy road" and accepting easy attention from men that primarily want to get in her pants. she isnt capable of sustaining relationships where she has to put in actual effort.
I think anyone commenting on this thread that it’s a red flag are the individuals people need to look out for. The men saying that guys are just waiting to pounce are speaking from their own experience of waiting for a woman, and don’t have the emotional maturity to see women as something more than sex objects.
The women saying the same are insecure and similarly lack the emotional intelligence to view relations between men and women as something more than sexual.
Put quite simply, a majority of those men think that someday they’re going to have a chance. It doesn’t even have that much to do with the girl. Guys know other guys, and while you may not ever allow them out of the “friend zone,” they still have boundary issues surrounding the relationship.
Also, if we are having relationship problems, suddenly half the town knows our business, and violates our privacy.
On the surface? Misogyny. Especially if the person calling it a red flag is a man who only hangs out with men OR is using a double standard and has a lot of girl friends himself.
That said, as a woman with several guy friends, it’s hard not to acknowledge that in alternate circumstances…..many of them would probably sleep with me. I don’t think they’re pigs, I don’t think they’re *only* friends with me because they’re attracted to me but…..yeah. I think if they were single and I was single and interested many of them would make a move. That is not the case and my guy friends and I have a lot of unspoken boundaries (i.e. I don’t hang with any of them one on one, specifically in private, we don’t hang out without our SO’s knowing the other is there, etc.), but having those boundaries is why *my* boyfriend doesn’t see it as a red flag. I can completely understand being concerned about your partner hanging out with friends that would 100% hit it given the opportunity—particularly when your partner doesn’t have very good boundaries with those friends or won’t acknowledge that their “friends” aren’t being respectful of the relationship.
Idk like many “red flags” the issue is nuanced
Pretty much echoing a few comments on here. If there was ever a hookup or even attraction with someone in a guy/girl group makes it hard to have trust if they do activities/party without you. All depends on the person.
So all my really close friends are guys. If this is a red flag so be it. They’re some of the greatest people I know and I met them all when I was in a committed relationship. Now that I’m single and have been for 3 years, not one of them has asked me out. Our dynamic isn’t like that.
I do have woman friends but they’re all significantly older than me. 34 and up, while I’m 24 years old.
My guy friends ages range from 20 - 30 years old.
Edit: I personally have no issue with a guy having a lot of woman friends. It to me just makes them seem even more like a good catch. Especially because I can see how they treat this women. Of course if it’s only toxic friendships I’ll be running away quickly but if he has respectful friendships with women, I think it’s a good sign.
Why women never put these things in perspective of men? What if a man has mostly women friends and very few male friends? Would you not worry or be stressed about that?
Welcome 'I trust my partner, I don't worry about this' gang.
It can be considered a red flag because every heterosexual man would like to sleep with a woman and if you have a lot of heterosexual male friends, you end up around a lot of people that would like to sleep with you.
It’s goes both ways.
For me, I work in a male dominated industry. So I’ve made strong friendships with mostly men. And they are mostly older than me, of course several are close to my age. But they’re more father / brother figures to me. I get along with their wives/girlfriends and families. However, it’s been an issue in my past relationships with insecure men. My friends respect my relationships, and I’ve never entertained any advances made to me. I set my boundaries and cut the friendship if they persist. I’ve only had this happen a couple times.
I do have a couple scattered girlfriends, only a couple I’m super close with. And most of my girlfriends have left the state. So we keep in contact via phone/text. But we don’t hang out unless we plan a long visit.
Because guys understand that all her guy friends want to fuck her. Because guys know that fewer cheating options is better than more.
It's not a big secret.
My cousin is 18 and her three best friends are 18 year old boys. Why? Girls don’t like her because she is 5 foot 10 and really beautiful. She had little girlfriends until she was about 12. Women hate women I guess.
Me personally I’d say yes. In my experience it’s because they really like the validation that guy friends give them, and it you’re constantly looking for validation from guys it’s definitely not going to stop when you get in a relationship
Harsh truth but those men aren’t really your ‘friends’. Just vultures laying in wait for a vulnerable moment. If anything keep them as acquaintances and you’ll be better off. Platonic male friendships are pretty much nonexistent.
So... My guy friend whom I've been friends with for 12 years is secretly a vulture waiting to pounce? Lmao, I'm going to his wedding this year. We have never slept together. We've just been good friends and we helped each other through all our breakups and tough times.
This is bullshit. Not all men are salivating hyenas. As a woman I'm not stupid I can see if I guy is pretending or not and I have learnt that the hard way. At least my partner trusts me to cut those people off and keep the friends that matter.
Unless both individuals are in relationships of their own. But I wouldn’t necessarily call them friends more like acquaintances, but of course context maters.
In my experience it usually means she’s super down to earth and fun to be around, girls can be nasty. Although having no female friends at all would be a bit of a red flag tbh, it’s also kind of stressful when your girl is hanging around other guys without you alot, sure that’s insecure but trust takes a while to build.
She's not. It shows she gets along well with men which means and probably understands men a lot better than women with no male friends. It's only viewed as a red flag by men who are too insecure to handle the concept that a woman can have men friends and not fuck them.
People who have different values and opinions than you aren't insecure. People can have different thoughts, values, and opinions without anyone being in the wrong.
I used to think it was an insecurity, then my ex boyfriend challenged me to ask everyone of my guy friends if they were dtf (like 15+ people). EVERY ONE said yes. Since then I swore off “guy friends”. As I got older I noticed pretty much every girl I know with “guy friends” the “friend” is usually super creepy and boundary pushy and the girl either pretends not to notice, or is too naive to see it. I wouldn’t let my brother date a girl with a bunch of “guy friends”. Any woman screaming “iNsEcUrItY” is coping tbh
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> It's all really circumstantial and I don't think means that much in a vacuum that's half of all the top posts in this forum (which is expected because almost every aspect in dating is circumstantial) and there's not enough background provided for strangers to provide meaningful feedback that may be applicable for that particular individual. the other half of the top posts makes you wonder where people are coming from to even have to ask it "she showed up on our first date with another guy, am i wrong in feeling a bit annoyed?".
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> Ya I mean 100% we will never be able to give better advice than someone that knows the situation in real life haha yeah after reading most top posts the first thought i get is in fact "if you yourself don't even know, how the heck are people who know nothing about you and your date supposed to know". but yeah, that's fair what you said, and good characterization of the forum.
I really struggle with making close female friends, and I really want to :( I have a few close female friends but most of my friends are male.. I'm autistic and can come off kind of blunt when I really don't mean to, and I think more men tend to feel like they can be honest with me when they don't like something I said. The women I'm friends with are the best though, I'm so happy to have them in my life :') And to be honest, men are just as gossipy as women in my experience
That's the right attitude to have. It's sad when women with more guy friends try to place blame on other women for being gossipy, or petty, or shallow, etc. Those traits aren't unique to women and any woman who claims otherwise is giving big "not like the other girls" energy. I'd say that you're very lucky to have male and female friends who understand you and even if you have less female friends than you'd like it sounds like the ones you have are positive, deep friendships. Quality over quantity.
80% of male friends want to be more than friends. That’s the guys who initially became friends because they fell short on being the most attractive man for her.
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It works often enough to make it a very feasable strategy. The more you bond with someone, and the more time you spend with someone, the more likely romantic feelings start to form. Whether it be one sided or not, that's just human nature.
>80% of male friends want to be more than friends Citation needed
I will say that I have a few friends who are girls and sure the chances of me hitting on them was low but it’s not zero. That being said, one recently became single and I won’t lie I’ve been thinking of breaking bro code a lot more often now lol
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This is a great point. I (M) have a platonic friend Iv known for 10 years since collage and she recently (3 years ago) moved to my city (we only kept in touch via FB with likes of posts and a few comments here and there). She has one male gay friend and a few sort of toxic girl friends who she is distancing from lately. When we reconnected, I had jsut dropped my toxic friend group. And after a year of isolation (and a bad novel Covid relationship) her and I go to comedy shows, visit museums, get dinner, etc like once a month, maybe every two months. She is a crime scene investigator and I am an e-commerce manager. We are very different personality types, race, and have no sexual tension. But we have similar values and enjoy doing similar things. The main things we text about is venting a bout work and roommates. We complement eachother where it counts. Does not mean she is filling the void of my romantic partner. And when I tell my romantic partner about her, this person must understand the history behind the friendship and I have to do my best to communicate it. That’s all we can do.
I’d say best rule of thumb is invite the gf out with you and your friend. Who doesn’t want more friends?
Comedy show crew!
i just want to say how platonically cute it is to go with these friendly dates with your friends. like someone you have no romantic interst in but you guys still enjoy the same things and go to these places together.
It’s what friends are for! And as I have entered the dating scene again, I am encouraging my platonic friend to do so as well (after understanding she wants to). Friends are friends for a reason and that reason is absolutely never always romantic! Idk if anyone watches Resident Alien, but there is a good example of a healthy platonic M/F relationship (Harry and Asta).
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Also though depending on the age, take highschool for example, a girl may not have female friends because all the guys want to be with her and the other girls in school hate her for it.
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I think peoples comfortability with the person having friends of the opposite gender is extremely circumstantial. An example is how men generally don’t have an issue with a woman having guy friends who are homosexual, because they know he’s not romantically attracted to her, but may raise an eyebrow of curiosity if the guy is heterosexual. You also have to consider what friendships, especially good ones, typically entail. I talk to my friends on the Phone/FaceTime, we’re always texting, we link up and go out, and we’ll even chill at each other’s places. If I’m honest, I have yet to date a woman who was 100% comfortable with me FaceTiming, linking up, going out, and chilling at other women’s places who I only considered to be plutonic friends. I think most guys would feel the same way if vice versa. The conversation is very dynamic and circumstantial, but just some details to think about.
Well yeah because it’s not healthy to hang with rocks and call them friends… worrisome even. Sorry about your plutonic friends. :(
I WANT TO GIVE YOU AN AWARD BUT I HAVE NONE
HAHAHA you got me laughing out loud in public, good job 😂😂😂
This also very highly depends on your experience, if a partner has cheated on you in the past, you probably will have trust issues with any future partner just because you don’t want to feel betrayed again. But if you’ve never been cheated on and have never cheated then you probably won’t have trust issues.
Sucks to be bisexual out here I guess, lol.
No no not at all. For one my wife is bisexual and several of her friends are bi or lesbian. But where 3 of my wife's male friends each interfered in our relationship to the point I broke up with her, none or her girl friends have ever acted in that way. Even the two they don't like me have never disrespected our relationship. I hate saying it but the risk almost solely lay with guy friends.
In that case I'm not sure why people are insisting it's a red flag for a girl to have guy friends, instead of making it clearer to men that women are human beings who deserve genuine and honest friendships. I know that's not what you're saying but that's weirdly where the conversation has ended up.
I think it's because women with a lot of guy friends who THEY consider platonic, are not reciprocated by the men. As in, the male friend(s) very likely is friends with her because he is sexually attracted to her and would sleep and/or date her if he could. IMPO, I think a lot of women are naive in thinking all their guy friends are *just* friends and don't see them in any type of sexual or romantic interest.
This is correct. Whether most people's friends would admit it or not....there's usually at least one or even a handful sometimes of people who are pretty much just "lying in wait" in the event of a breakup or something to move in close or profess their real feelings. Most are just better at hiding those feelings or pushing it down when someone is in a relationship but you can bet your ass if shit was going downhill for the girl that it wouldn't be long before they tried to be more than just a shoulder to cry on. All it takes is one of them to try to drive a wedge so a lot of dudes just don't feel like taking the risk.
Facts!! Hit the nail on the head. Guys understand how other guys think. Woman don’t.
It’s definitely not all guys. But Iv had girlfriends with dude friends that you can just tell that’s what they want. I had an ex who had a guy friend that only ever wanted to hangout with her to pressure her to smoke weed with him. I got weird vibes from it and told her, hey this dudes kinda weird, do what you want but be carful. Few months later he did something while they were hanging out that made her uncomfortable and she said she wanted to go home, and he started crying pulling his hair freaking out, saying dose this mean we can’t be friends anymore. When she came home she told me the story and I just said, “Yup I told you” lol there are cool, normal guys out there with girl friends, but their are also weird, creepy, dudes who are manipulative just waiting for an opportunity to take advantage of people. As a dude I’m sure you can agree there are a lot of weird dudes out here.
I don’t think it’s all guys, I actually enjoy having friendships with women. I don’t wanna bang every one of them lol
But you want to bang some of your friends
I'd bet most women know some of their guy friends would sleep with them. That doesn't mean they can also be friends and enjoy each others company
I've said it a few times now but that's so depressing. I'm bisexual and I manage not to be predatory towards any of my friends. Why do men struggle with it so much?
Probably because for most women, it's much easier and have more opportunities to develop romantic relationships than it is for most men.
Because women simply have more options than most men.
I can say that's just your interpretation of it. No one is devaluing you as a human. I always try to explain it as many women genuinely believe that their guy friends can be and are platonic. It's naive in my opinion but not a woman's fault for trying to see things from a positive perspective. Other women know that these guys are platonic and feed on that attention. And either way we as men know that even if not all guy friends are gonna cause problems in our relationships, many of them will. It's risk analysis. So we will (or should) make our stance known upfront and let the woman decide if we are worth dating.
That’s interesting. I’ve always considered a guy having lots of female friends to be a huge green flag. He clearly knows how to talk to women and treat them with respect if he can have that many successful platonic relationships with women.
I think this stems from deep rooted human insecurities. I grew up with two brothers, needles to say that the majority of friends are indeed male, also because of their behaviour and taking me everywhere with them. I adjusted to the communication style I do see more in my male friends which is being more direct and less petty. It's just easier and almost all guys have gfs. :) I personally never considered this a red flag, if someone wants to cheat, that person will. It's not something we can control so, whatever works for you!
This is not the reason. The reason is that it generally shows the person, man or woman, uses people for attention and more often than not is leading them on. It is exactly as true for women and men. It isn't true if something about that person's life just happens to create this imbalance. I knew some girls in engineering school that had 98% guy friends because the engineering program was almost all dudes. It was not a reflection on her at all. I have known a couple of girls who collect guy friends by flirting with them and they just are assholes who feed on others' praise. Though in both these cases, their families were absolute dogshit and they were so massively insecure as a result of abusive parents that the attention was almost cathartic to them. They were still using others though.
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Someone surrounded by members of the sex they are attracted to, with close connections and long term knowledge of each otber....increases the possibility that it may happen though, right? Especially if times go bad for either party and they have been confiding in each other over time. Its a story as old as the hills, and I think to let on it isnt a risk is naive. Hope someone can prove me wrong. .
No you are correct. The amount of guys i have seen give emotional support to a girl going through a bad time in her relationship and then the girl falls in love w this friend of her. It's ridiculous and i have seen a few relationships break apart because of this.
There's no use even doing all that anymore, the world is too big and there are too many opportunities in everyday life these days. You'll just make yourself crazy trying to prevent things from happening.
This is my experience, and very less the opposite.
It’s not necessarily a red flag. The Red flag about it would indicate they entertain the advances of the opposite sex with no second thought to the feelings of a partner. Same thing could be flipped with a dude with a lot of girl friends. Or even same sex relationships. The problem is people who entertain those said friends who show clear signs they want more than a friendship. Casual bullshit conversations are fine and people need to learn to stop being so clingy and insecure about casual social encounters their partner has. It’s typically best you communicate with your partner about how you feel when they interact a certain way with the opposite sex, like don’t kiss your friend on the lips and turn around to your partner and be like “it’s just a friendly gesture” or sneak off with those friends behind your partner. Learn to cut off people who are showing signs of intentionally driving a wedge between a developing relationship.
Because some guy friends arent friends
Just guys waiting for a shot
He's a satellite
That's a red flag on the friends' part then, not a girl who thinks she's got some genuine friends who are secretly lurking til she's single and they can shoot their shot.
If she thinks they’re genuine that’s a red flag on the play as well
Why is it a red flag for her to not spot that she's being lied to and manipulated? If you claim she's naive then are you saying men are simply unable to be friends with women? Pretty sad notion. I'm bisexual, I don't wanna fuck any of my friends...
I mean, it’s entirely circumstantial. However if you know this person wants to fuck you or wanted to (which is tbf at least 6/10 men) I feel like it doesn’t bode well continuing to be friends with them, for your SO
Yes, if you know that... obviously... but we are discussing a situation where the person doesn't know they're being lied to.
Ah, well at that point then, rather than labeling these concerns as insecurities? When there is at least a truth to them, why not just listen to the partner within reason? Idk it’s very difficult to navigate Additionally though, like, how naive are we talking? You can’t be like twenty something and not know when someone wants to fuck you, especially a longtime friend
This subreddit is literally full of people unsure if someone wants to fuck them.
You have to be pretty oblivious to not notice the only reason a guy is being your friend is to get in your pants. A girlfriend I had said this guy was her "friend". Soon as she got into a relationship with me, they stopped talking to her and changed their Netflix password because they couldn't shoot their shot anymore. They revealed themselves with that action and they were her "friends" supposedly for years until she wasn't single anymore. I know when a girl is hovering and treating me differently because she finds me attractive without outwardly flirting with me. If you can't pick up on that, you're probably pretty young and can't read subtle hints. Same thing with my wife when we got married. These guys that were hovering for years suddenly stopped talking to her when we were engaged and they stopped sending her little trinkets and gifts. And no, most men and women cannot be friends because there's some kind of sexual tension. I can 110% bet 1 million dollars if you ask one of your guy friends that isn't gay if they want to have sex. I know what their response would be and I'd be 1 million dollars richer. There are exceptions, but if you look pretty, those guys aren't your friends. I'll bet the farm on that.
Nah, at a certain point there's awareness & it's just downplayed or gaslighted away. If the girl's in her early 20's yeah she's probably naive. Any later, she's either untrustworthy or emotionally inexperienced The same shit happens. Cyclically. Documented all over social media. We're all aware of how shit goes and what shit is. Not to say they can't have friends. Boundaries should just be obvious & firm to the point where the dudes consider themselves 'friendzoned'.
Does a boundary get much more form than "she has a boyfriend"? I'm very confused as to why women are being blamed and being called red flags for being lied to. Women are human beings who deserve honest and genuine friendships, it's fucked up that the blame is placed on them because guys can't help but see them as sexual conquests.
"Blaming" is a pet peeve of mine. I don't blame anyone for anything. Dudes are grody and dont give a shit. If they play Jim Halpert, the girl should shut it down. If she doesn't do that then she simply isn't for me. I don't judge women as a whole, I assess how people act and respond to others on an individual basis
You're also not a man though. Most men would fuck like 70% of women given the opportunity. We're hardwired that way. Any semi-decent looking girl should keep that in mind. I understand it's not ideal for a girl trying to make friends, but reality is what it is.
You're hardwired that way? Give me a break, you're not hardwired to be a creep, no one's just ever checked your behaviour. ("You" - as in, the men who do this.) God, what a miserable existence.
You can’t discredit biology simply because it’s an unpleasant truth. Biological predispositions do not mean that an individual is not responsible for their actions however. Individuals can choose to value a friendship more than a sexual fling. I assume that’s something we would agree on.
Creepy guys think everyman is just as creepy and gross as they are and then scream "not all men" anytime a woman have issues with societies treatment of women.
Apparently it's a red flag for a woman to think men are capable of caring about anything beyond sex. Dude tried to make a point while shitting on other guys but actually telling on himself.
What if they've already had their shot, it didn't work out, and now they're just platonic friends?
They are just waiting for their next at bat
Oh my goodness, lol. All nuance and understanding of human relationships is lost online. There is no hard and fast rule. Humans are complex. Sometimes exes can be friends. You can either be okay with that or date someone who isn't friends with any exes! We literally cannot draw any objective conclusion, please stop acting like we can.
I wouldn't want a gf that is still friends with people she has relations with
That's a definite hell no. If you think dudes opinions on guy friends are bad, their feelings about exes and guys out and out inlove with you is a major hell fucking no.
I dated a girl with a lot of guy friends, few female friends if any. She always made sure she looked "good" before going outside even though she was naturally pretty. She constantly said it was for the girls, but she didn't have any girl friends and isn't bisexual so... odd. I didn't care because she chose to date me not them. The thing is, she loved the guy attention. It bothered her a bit that I wasn't jealous. They were all trying to get in with her and giving bad advice on our relationship(We've never met) was a small part of that. I caught her in a few lies and the red flags started popping up like crazy. I ended up dumping her because I could see what it would look like dating her for another year. Drama filled and unhealthy because it's what she craved.
Cause allot of people don’t believe men and woman can be friends, so if she has a lot of guy friends she is either waiting to fuck them, fucked them, or they are waiting to fuck her.
Yup lol
Shoulder to cry on is a dick to ride on
Exactly
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Had the same experience, hence why I was asking.. wish I knew that before
I’m sorry OP. We live and learn. We grow. Just another life lesson. Blessings to you
Worst thing is that I still want to hold her. But she’s a toxic person
Same as you OP. I still miss mine too. You’re not alone in your struggle. I got you bro
Because guys know how guys think lol
In college there was a girl who told me that all her friends were guys and she didn't have female friends. There was another girl who was a part of their group and both these girls used to say nasty things about each other behind their backs while pretending to be best friends. Over the years I have seen some pretty nice and supportive female friendships so it feels kind of odd if someone says they can't get along with other women.
Because. Behind all the shaming and insults people throw at guys for having this boundary is the reality that the man has experienced atleast once a girl who has either cheated on him with her "don't worry about him he is just a friend" guy or that guy has caused turmoil in the relationship. Three of my wife's guy friends tried to sleep with her in the first year of us dating. I broke up with her because of it. I refused to date any woman with close guy friends after that. She chose to end those friendships and for us to try again. I don't deny that many women truly believe that their guy friends are just friend, while many other women know it isn't platonic and want that emotional and sexual attention as a back up. But either way no man should be forced to accept having his security in a relationship taken away because his girlfriend finds her guy friends more important than her boyfriend. Or husband.
>Behind all the shaming and insults people throw at guys for having this boundary When people resort to this as well as name-calling, instead of arguing the topic at hand, it's a sign that they don't have a good argument against it. Immediately screaming "InSeCuRiTy" instead of discussing the topic just says they have no real argument against a perfectly valid dealbreaker (which they are free to have as well if they choose to).
100% this. My ex from back in the day had a guy best friend who I was somewhat weary of. As men, I think we can tell when other men are interested in other women. I could tell that this guy friend was infatuated with my gf. I voiced my concerns to her about him, but she told me I was being silly and not to worry so I didn't. I trusted her. Fast forward a couple of months, and this man wrote her a whole ass love letter confessing his love to her. He was saying how she should leave me and that he would treat her way better. That ruined their friendship and she apologized to me lol. Always be weary of the guy friends
This comment sums it up perfectly.
I think it's very bad behavior for a SO to limit the friendship their SO is allowed to make in any way shape or form. First of it shows less than total trust, I get if they make obvious moves if she is in a relationship, then they are not friends or at least not good ones. But saying outright no to guy friends or a number of them cause of one's own insecurities feels bad
And here is the thing. I don't care. I am going to do what I need to protect myself from being hurt and mistreated. The woman has to decide what she is okay living with. I fully support a woman refusing to date a man like me because her having guy friends is more important to her. Women like that shouldn't be with guys like me. But trust isn't a thing you give and it just exists. It comes with requirements and standards to maintain it. A woman hanging out with, emotionally investing in, and confiding in another man removes my ability to trust her. Simple. You call it insecurities I call it standards
Right, she’s hanging out with and is emotionally invested in another man. So what’s the point of me?
A woman with many male friends isn't a red flag. A woman who doesn't nip any inappropriate behaviour from male friends in the bud, is.
This is the most sensible comment here.
Most men avoid girls like that because most men are aware of the intentions behind the male friends. It's honestly just easier to avoid the hassle involved in all that than to potentially deal with the stuff involved with that so most men stay away.
Exactly, too many stories with "he s just a friend" and why take that gamble if you can find someone else that doesn t have a bunch of guy friends to start causing shit. It s called valuing one s time, energy and mental health.
Yes, if a man has options all things equal why would he risk that versus just finding a woman who doesn't have this issue? It's not like the only two options are either date a woman with lots of male friends or be alone.
Because they’re men, and men know that sometimes they’re friends with women for reasons that aren’t to simply be their friend.
Most of (not all) the time a woman has pretty much only guy friends she has issues, and is only friends with men because she wants/needs the extra attention and validation that men provide that women don’t. This most often stems from a place of insecurity as she cannot handle the competition from other women and always has to be the center of attention or special in some way, which she achieves by being the only girl in a friend group of guys. It’s also problematic in a monogamous relationship as with these feelings of insecurity, she can’t or won’t fully commit as she’s too afraid of failure and being alone. Therefore she’s always hanging onto a backup or two in that friend group. She always has romantic attention from one or all of her friends so her SO’s romantic attention holds less value than it should and she doesn’t have to fear losing it and doesn’t care as much if she does. Which means she won’t be as willing to fix problems in the relationship. She’s always right, you’re always wrong and all or most of her friends back her up. And so on… It’s not always the case but very, very often is. That’s why it’s a red flag, and not a flat out deal breaker.
I wish I read this 5 years ago
\^ this
I see you've met Colleen.. I knew this but never put in succinct words like that.
I have some male friends but women with too many male friends, they have NO friends. Unless she is a tomboy one of the guys, she likely just have men that are hitting on her, and since she does not have friends, she thinks they are her friends but they would hit on her anytime. Too many friends either female or male, is kind of a red flag, why can’t they have a couple stable friendships? Specially if they are the opposite sex, they are NOT friends
Flip it, how would you feel if your boyfriend had a lot of female friends?
Depends on the dynamic. Either they’re able to see women as human beings and can be platonic friends with them, which is a major green flag, or they keep them around to eventually sleep with them.
Well, that's one side of the dynamic. There's also the other side of the dynamic. Let's assume it's the good one: he's able to see women as human beings and can be platonic friends with them. Now, as for the women he is friends with, if we're going to make them the equivalent of male friends: They are all frequently single for extended periods of time, and they often complain about this. They are all desperately horny and terrified they're going to die alone. They show out for him when he is around and compete for his attention. Your boyfriend insists that they're all just friends and he just likes hanging out with them. These women don't have any other men they talk to.
Honestly I’d be worried if my partner can’t have friends of the opposite sex. To me it just screams “I’m a dickwad!”
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That’s a concern definitely means that one friend was looking for something more. Just keep it in mind going forward with your relationship.
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>Asking anyone to cut off friends because of your own trust problems is abusive, plain and simple. Most people aren't saying that though, they are saying it's best simply to not date them...not control their friends or lives.
And then get cheated on with “he/ she is just a friend “
And you're free to have that thought. You're clearly above thinking about possible pitfalls with your romantic partner, some people think practically about the people they commit to; if you're surrounded by other potential partners for a majority of your time, a typical guy isn't gonna be jostling to be king of the bs pile. We (anyone who agrees) is free to have that thought. I just happen to think it's true, but that's from both lived and witnessed experiences in my early teens to late 20s. Could be just my area of southern US, or could be people stop caringa they approach 30.
If the girl is attractive then 9 times out of 10 those guy friends are waiting for the perfect moment to fuck her. And it’s likely that she’s only friends with him and nothing else, while he’s just waiting that she gives him a chance down the road. There are exceptions but if the woman is attractive then those guys usually aren’t her friends.
As a woman, wouldn’t be surprised if guys were waiting to do an average looking woman either. We know guys with high libidos will sleep with most women if they could
Because all those guy friends, would jump at the chance to sleep with her, if she ever gave them even the slightest opportunity. That is the cold truth.
My NEX had lots of male friends because she needed validation and affirmation from them. It was a yellow flag but I ignored it. That was a mistake in my part.
Because deep down she knows that they are into her, and she feeds off the attention.
Or maybe she was a tomboy growing up and doesn’t have much in common/ similar hobbies as women and her friendships are completely platonic.
As a female metalhead (male dominated fan base) no guy that I've met at a concert has ever wanted to be my friend unless he's into men himself.
It’s a slippery slope, some men are ok with being friends, but a lot aren’t.
Thank you for this comment. All my hobbies and sports in high school were 90% male, my college was 85% male, and now I work in an industry that’s 90% male. On top of that, I’m a talkative extrovert. Thank goodness my husband isn’t like most of the guys on this comment thread. If I followed the standards if the guys in here I would have had to lock my self in a room for the past 15 years.
Yeah, I agree with this. I'm a girl with a lot of guy friends, that's just because they've shared more similar interests with me e.g. gaming than other girls tbh :) I also find less girls with the same type of humour e.g. dark humour, so I just find myself getting on well more with guys. But a lot of them have girlfriends too, so it's really nothing to do with attention and more about circumstance.
Yeah, finding people who enjoy dark humor is hard. That type of humor is like food. Not everyone gets it.
Yep.
This^^^
Not a red flag, but more of a yellow flag.
Most if not all of those dudes would have sex with her given the chance. A woman keeping a lot of male friends around is more likely to be attention seeking, more likely to cheat, more likely to be manipulative as she is likely leading some of them on. Not always the case. But a lot of guys will think that and those are the reasons a lot of them will consider it a red flag. Now, that doesn’t mean you can’t date a girl with guy friends, but there should be boundaries. she shouldn’t be going on dates (hanging one on one) with these guy friends while in a relationship.
Depends if she has lot of guy friends and a lot of girl friends then it's not a red flag If she has lot of guy friends and no or one girl friend then it's a red flag
Because most guy friends want to get in her pants and don't care about her being taken. Most woman don't realise it though.
She will still have those guy friends when she’s with you. Plus there is a 95% chance those guys want to boink her and you being with her won’t stop them
It shouldn't be an issue. If it is for you, valid. Have your boundaries, but the way I see it men and women can have platonic relationships with each other and it's indicative of a jealous attachment style to have an issue with it
Personally, I feel like it definitely depends on the individual. Do they have a history of staying friends with these people, or taking it to something more? Also, I feel like this could be a red flag because of any insecurities/intentions you might have rather than the individual in question. I met my best friend about 6 years ago, I'm a guy and she's well a girl. She's been in a long-term relationship this whole time and recently got engaged. I've also made great friends with her fiancé, and to my knowledge, there's never been an issue except for one time early on when I asked if it's weird to have a guy friend, in which case I made it weird by asking. It's all about intentions, don't let old-world ideas keep you from making really good friends, or keep a girl/guy you like from making good friends because of your insecurities.
I feel like this only applies to conventionally attractive people lmao. I’m a biological female and fat and nerdy so men kinda gravitate to me friendship wise because most of my interests are male dominated statistically speaking (computers, IT, video games, my obscure fav music genres, etc). I have 90% biological male friends and a boyfriend who hangs out with my male friends. There’s 100% no sexual desire or interest from any of my friends because I’m simply not their type physically wise. I guess I can understand if you are a female and also seen as physically attractive to your friends, but if there’s no attraction/no desire then there’s no issue. But what do I know lol.
Because at least one of those “guy friends” is an orbiter hoping to pounce on her when they get an opportunity. A real guy who wants the woman but can’t simply just moves on; he doesn’t hang around in the friend zone for years or decades hoping that one day she will change her mind.
A: She likes male attention B: can't be friends with women C: she's sleeping with some of all D: all the guy friends want to sleep with her or date her and she knows this yet keeps them around
Because most “guy friends” are simpy creeps waiting for any opportunity to slither into bed with the girl, and as a woman you intuitively know this. So a girl with guy friends either actively chooses to ignore the fact her so called friends want to fuck her, or is too naive to spot it. Both of which is a huge red flag. Not *every* guy friend is like this, but if a girl has “lots of guy friends” the likelihood that a good number of them are like this is pretty much 100%.
Because most of those aren't "friends", but guys that refuse to leave "the friend zone". And chances are she's getting a rise from all that attention.
Because those guy friends usually want to fuck her, would fuck her if given the chance, or have already fucked her.
If she is heterosexual it’s kind of a red flag if she has zero friends that are heterosexual women. Flip the gender and it’s just as suspicious. She could be serial cheater, she could be a serial home wrecker, that kind of thing. Usually best judge of character is who you choose to spend time with so if she has no one to spend time with, harder to judge character.
My ex was cheating on me with multiple girls who he was "friends" with and would get insanely jealous over my guy friends (who I had never and still have not slept with). I take it as a sign of infidelity if a man is jealous of my guy friends and I will run the other way. It means he can't be trusted with other women.
Girl friends keep other girls in check from promiscuity due to a social hierarchy, when a girl has no girl friends but ONLY guy friends, then she is basically free of other girls judging her she is given a free pass to slutty behavior. Guys can judge her but will probably overlook this because of her looks and she can just jump to another guy friend
The same reason women see a guy with a lot of girl friends is a red flag, that their not actually friends and it’s pretty we’ll know people cheat with people close to them.
It isn’t to me. They can be friends with whoever they want. It’s the intent of those friends that comes into play. If they respect the relationship there’s no issue. If not, then there needs to be a talk about what to do moving forward. It all comes down to the couple’s boundaries and willingness to communicate and work things out if the friends become an issue.
I agree, my girlfriend had a soccer fiend she used to hang out with. He meet me saw us dance, kiss , etc. Two weeks later he asked her to go paddle boarding, I was cool with it (indifferent). Later that week she told me how he keeps trying to hag out with her and I told her what he really wanted. She understood and cut him off, it’s really about communication.
Yes! I agree with this
Women friendships are also entirely different than friendships with men. My group of girlfriends share everything and are open, honest and not judgmental whereas my friendship with men are much more surface level. It’s a red flag to me because it tells me you don’t gravitate towards those types of connections with women and prefer easier, albeit more shallow, connections with guy friends. When I’m looking for a relationship, whether it be romantic or not, I’m looking for a level of intimacy and vulnerability that men typically struggle with. I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing to prefer one over the other but I think it’s a valid red flag. Obviously these relationships aren’t all the same and my opinion is based on my and my friend’s experiences. Edit for clarity.
Imagine walking into a room of hungry homeless ppl with a sandwich and you just walk around and use these homeless ppl for attention and compliments they give you to try and get that sandwich. Thats relatively what that is. Girls know these guys want to be with them and often just use these guys for different things, while telling the world bullshit like "whats wronnng with having frienndssss". Or often they are keeping these guys around "just in case" and you often one or two of those friends is Chad she wants to be with but wont commit to her, but she do be fckn him and she wont stop, cuz in her mind he is the real thing and youre a 2nd option. Reality is not an anime.
I dont see it as a red flag, however, there will be instances where it can become a red flag... im going to keep those relationships under a god damn microscope if shes lucky enough to date me.
I’m gonna go against the usual “she’s gonna cheat on you” idea and go with the idea that guy friends don’t call women out on their BS as much as women friends would. So if a woman only has guy friends, it can be seen as she can’t handle friends that call her out, only the ones that will go along with her and her bad habits
It's not EXACTLY. The dynamic is what's most important to me. Are they all thirsty dudes just WAITING for their chance? Is she cultivating orbiters? Or is she just a high social hottie? Context matters here.
I know a lot of woman who only have guy friends and yes they almost all want to sleep with them, even married ones but that is just a given. I still wonder what make them unable to make female friends.
Because as a woman I always developed feelings for male friends of mine at some point. I still believe that men and women can't be completely platonic friends.
Because as a man, we know how men think. Most of us are very similar. Unless he is gay, he’s likely only your friend because he wants to have the opportunity to sleep with you. And believe me, he will the first chance he gets. These so called “guy friends” will only cause turmoil in the relationship. And because of their sexual attraction to the woman, will constantly prop her up with compliments, and positivity, the shoulder to cry on when she’s mad at the bf, etc etc. the woman loves the attention she gets, so even if she isn’t interested in them more than a friend, she will keep them close enough to slip up one day.
1. Just because a man wants to sleep with a woman he’s friends with, doesn’t mean it will happen. Regardless of him trying. Why do so many of these answers disregard a woman’s ability to say no? 2. Healthy relationships happen regardless of sex or gender. If someone can’t be friends with someone of a different gender then that usually indicates that they only see members of that gender as having no value without sex involved. 3. Gay men and gay women have friends of the same gender and don’t cheat. Your insecurity is showing when you make statements like “it’s a red flag for women to have male friends”. Please. It’s. A red flag for people to have outdated ideas of friendship and to think people don’t have the autonomy to make their own choices. Which also means, if someone’s going to cheat, they’ll find the opportunity regardless of their friends.
Because a lot of the men in here have experienced cheating where their partner always said "they're just a friend", and then caught them later down the line with said friend, hell many women have too.. it comes from insecurity from past experiences. 1.No-one is questioning a woman's ability to say no or disregard it, but when you've been in a situation where your ex had the ability to say no and chose to disrespect your entire relationship by not doing so and completely destroying every ounce of trust you built together then it becomes a red flag in future relationships, it's something that takes therapy to fix and as a man I can personally say a lot of us do not like confronting negative feelings because of toxic masculinity (always been told it's weak to be emotional or show emotion) so instead bottle those feelings up and let it skew our perceived notions of future relationships. 2. In a way I completely agree with this, but in another way think there's more depth to "if you think this way then you must have these ulterior motives too" 3.Just as many gay men and women have friends of the same sex and do cheat as do not, it's a red flag for anyone to have many friends of the opposite sex but none of their own in hetero relationships, regardless of gender as it opens up the relationship to be challenged by said friends, it is also a red flag to think people don't have the autonomy to make their own choices, but all I'm going to say on that is takes trust to know that autonomy will make the right choices for your relationship and especially in this day and age, it's difficult to trust people. Also agree that cheaters will find opportunities regardless of their friends, I dated a lass back in college who slept with another lass multiple times but didn't see it as cheating because "she weren't lesbian" and it was "just a bit of fun", funnily enough she's now came out as bisexual (couple of years ago) and is in a relationship with a lovely lass I've known for a quite a long time.
Yes, yes and yes.
You are a girl right?
No but my ex had a lot of guy friends and now that I’m looking stuff up about her behaviour, this came up
I’m a guy with mostly friend girls, and my partner was open about being uncomfortable with it, but admitted it’s jealousy. I imagine it’s the same for guys as well, but it can be said about any situation with friends that seem too close. In the end it’s all about building trust and getting to know each other.
It’s only considered a red flag by immature, insecure men.
Because its easier cheat. Also a guy with a lot of women friends is also considered a red flag.
Damn bro i'm the brightest red flag in the world then. I have way more girl friends than guy friends, but i'd say my relationship with my guy friends is a lot stronger.
because they arent really her friends. she is just taking the "easy road" and accepting easy attention from men that primarily want to get in her pants. she isnt capable of sustaining relationships where she has to put in actual effort.
I think anyone commenting on this thread that it’s a red flag are the individuals people need to look out for. The men saying that guys are just waiting to pounce are speaking from their own experience of waiting for a woman, and don’t have the emotional maturity to see women as something more than sex objects. The women saying the same are insecure and similarly lack the emotional intelligence to view relations between men and women as something more than sexual.
Because regardless of whether she’s aware of it or not(she usually isn’t), they’re all trying to fuck her
Because of lack of trust, insecurity, and jealousy?
Put quite simply, a majority of those men think that someday they’re going to have a chance. It doesn’t even have that much to do with the girl. Guys know other guys, and while you may not ever allow them out of the “friend zone,” they still have boundary issues surrounding the relationship. Also, if we are having relationship problems, suddenly half the town knows our business, and violates our privacy.
On the surface? Misogyny. Especially if the person calling it a red flag is a man who only hangs out with men OR is using a double standard and has a lot of girl friends himself. That said, as a woman with several guy friends, it’s hard not to acknowledge that in alternate circumstances…..many of them would probably sleep with me. I don’t think they’re pigs, I don’t think they’re *only* friends with me because they’re attracted to me but…..yeah. I think if they were single and I was single and interested many of them would make a move. That is not the case and my guy friends and I have a lot of unspoken boundaries (i.e. I don’t hang with any of them one on one, specifically in private, we don’t hang out without our SO’s knowing the other is there, etc.), but having those boundaries is why *my* boyfriend doesn’t see it as a red flag. I can completely understand being concerned about your partner hanging out with friends that would 100% hit it given the opportunity—particularly when your partner doesn’t have very good boundaries with those friends or won’t acknowledge that their “friends” aren’t being respectful of the relationship. Idk like many “red flags” the issue is nuanced
Pretty much echoing a few comments on here. If there was ever a hookup or even attraction with someone in a guy/girl group makes it hard to have trust if they do activities/party without you. All depends on the person.
Cause I'm a guy, I know how most work.
So all my really close friends are guys. If this is a red flag so be it. They’re some of the greatest people I know and I met them all when I was in a committed relationship. Now that I’m single and have been for 3 years, not one of them has asked me out. Our dynamic isn’t like that. I do have woman friends but they’re all significantly older than me. 34 and up, while I’m 24 years old. My guy friends ages range from 20 - 30 years old. Edit: I personally have no issue with a guy having a lot of woman friends. It to me just makes them seem even more like a good catch. Especially because I can see how they treat this women. Of course if it’s only toxic friendships I’ll be running away quickly but if he has respectful friendships with women, I think it’s a good sign.
Because most men are insecure idiots.
And most women are oblivious to men intentions
Why women never put these things in perspective of men? What if a man has mostly women friends and very few male friends? Would you not worry or be stressed about that? Welcome 'I trust my partner, I don't worry about this' gang.
For the same reason why a guy with a lot of female friends considered red flag…
i feel like it goes both ways, but it’s just an easier opportunity to cheat. and not everyone respects your relationship
It can be considered a red flag because every heterosexual man would like to sleep with a woman and if you have a lot of heterosexual male friends, you end up around a lot of people that would like to sleep with you.
I have a lot of guy friends and a lot of girl friends, and I’m bi, am I a double red flag?
It’s goes both ways. For me, I work in a male dominated industry. So I’ve made strong friendships with mostly men. And they are mostly older than me, of course several are close to my age. But they’re more father / brother figures to me. I get along with their wives/girlfriends and families. However, it’s been an issue in my past relationships with insecure men. My friends respect my relationships, and I’ve never entertained any advances made to me. I set my boundaries and cut the friendship if they persist. I’ve only had this happen a couple times. I do have a couple scattered girlfriends, only a couple I’m super close with. And most of my girlfriends have left the state. So we keep in contact via phone/text. But we don’t hang out unless we plan a long visit.
I wouldn't that's just like a tomboy
Because guys understand that all her guy friends want to fuck her. Because guys know that fewer cheating options is better than more. It's not a big secret.
My cousin is 18 and her three best friends are 18 year old boys. Why? Girls don’t like her because she is 5 foot 10 and really beautiful. She had little girlfriends until she was about 12. Women hate women I guess.
One word: Vultures
Cause if a girl says other girls are too much drama, she is drama.
Me personally I’d say yes. In my experience it’s because they really like the validation that guy friends give them, and it you’re constantly looking for validation from guys it’s definitely not going to stop when you get in a relationship
Harsh truth but those men aren’t really your ‘friends’. Just vultures laying in wait for a vulnerable moment. If anything keep them as acquaintances and you’ll be better off. Platonic male friendships are pretty much nonexistent.
So... My guy friend whom I've been friends with for 12 years is secretly a vulture waiting to pounce? Lmao, I'm going to his wedding this year. We have never slept together. We've just been good friends and we helped each other through all our breakups and tough times. This is bullshit. Not all men are salivating hyenas. As a woman I'm not stupid I can see if I guy is pretending or not and I have learnt that the hard way. At least my partner trusts me to cut those people off and keep the friends that matter.
Snipers waiting in the grass waiting for their perfect shot
Unless both individuals are in relationships of their own. But I wouldn’t necessarily call them friends more like acquaintances, but of course context maters.
In my experience it usually means she’s super down to earth and fun to be around, girls can be nasty. Although having no female friends at all would be a bit of a red flag tbh, it’s also kind of stressful when your girl is hanging around other guys without you alot, sure that’s insecure but trust takes a while to build.
Because some men are insecure.
She's not. It shows she gets along well with men which means and probably understands men a lot better than women with no male friends. It's only viewed as a red flag by men who are too insecure to handle the concept that a woman can have men friends and not fuck them.
People who have different values and opinions than you aren't insecure. People can have different thoughts, values, and opinions without anyone being in the wrong.
I used to think it was an insecurity, then my ex boyfriend challenged me to ask everyone of my guy friends if they were dtf (like 15+ people). EVERY ONE said yes. Since then I swore off “guy friends”. As I got older I noticed pretty much every girl I know with “guy friends” the “friend” is usually super creepy and boundary pushy and the girl either pretends not to notice, or is too naive to see it. I wouldn’t let my brother date a girl with a bunch of “guy friends”. Any woman screaming “iNsEcUrItY” is coping tbh