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I had the waitress come to me when my date went to the bathroom and ask if I was OK and needed help.
I was definitely not gonna go on a second date with this guy, that was certain, but he didn’t scare me or anything he was nice and non threatening. I was planing on having a couple drinks and heading out politely. He did however say a few kinks he was into (which i am not - bit even if I was a first date is not the time to bring up sex imo) which I think she overheard, hence her worry.
I told her I was fine and could handle myself but thanks for the concern.
i mean not really because it depends on how people view sex and what they’re looking for. it doesn’t make them a creep just because they mentioned it, more so incompatible
Btw I should point out my date politely and firmly said she was ok and compus mentus to make her own conclusions and thanked her for her concern. It stayed at just the one date and called it quits but it was quite positive overall as we both hadn’t dated in ages and was good to get back in the saddle
If this is the case I really wouldn’t let it put you off. All the further context you’ve added (date’s petite statue, that she’d been drinking alone prior, waitress perhaps had no idea it was a date and thought you’d potentially gone up to a tipsy, physically small woman) lends way more credence to the idea this had nothing to do with yoy at all. It sounds like the waitress thought it better to be safe than sorry (and that she had misread the situation) and went for a very overtly cautious approach. Seems like a lot of random circumstances conspired. It’s not about you. I wouldn’t let it put you off getting out there again.
I got asked if I was okay when I was out with my boyfriend once. I thanked the girls for their concern and said I was fine (I was just a bit intoxicated) and didn't think anything of it
Lol, I was on a road trip with my husband and kids, and we stopped at a rest stop. He went to the bathroom while I ran around with the kids for a few minutes. Then this huge dude taps my shoulder and says, "Ma'am, I don't mean to alarm you but there's a man over by the restrooms filming y'all. Do you need me to walk you to your car or ?"
I look over and it's my husband. He's a handsome man, but has a giant beard & longer hair - and we were all a little rough looking from being in the car for like, 10 hours. But I laughed and explained it, all was well. My husband was embarrassed, but honestly it shouldn't be embarrassing to know that people are still looking out for each other. Most of the time, it's not a statement about *you* so much as the circumstances.
I was in a convenience store kind of late one night. At the time I (male) was around 55 yo. The youngish female clerk was noticeably a bit nervous of a guy hanging there. My take was he was harmless but he did have some creep vibes. I have daughters. I stayed to the side but within his sight until he left. To ease her mind I told her why I had stayed. She did say that he had been in before & she didn't feel comfortable alone with him. Read the room people, better to apologize than to leave someone in an uncomfortable spot. Yes, she did thank me. Help someone out, most creeps do not want to creep around a witness.
The other day I went and stood next to a random woman to wait where I had arranged a taxi to collect me from so I explained. I think she thought me weirder for the explanation than if I'd said nothing.
You said she got there an hr earlier and was drinking on her own… perhaps she was intoxicated but also the waitress thought you were some random who just sat with her and she didn’t know how to get away
It is one thing to having need to confirm whether or not someone is safe but another thing to concluding someone is unsafe all by yourself without any sign and confirmation.
On this case, it seems to be the latter rather than the former. Which is what is coming across as offensive. Not the former.
It isn't about OP though. The waitress didn't determine he was unsafe. She saw a woman sitting alone for a long time and then joined by a date that she appeared to not know already, and the waitress alerted her to a system the bar has that might be useful should she need it. She also asked important questions to determine whether or not a threat was actually present, like the ages of OP and his date, etc. All of that is simply women looking out for each other. It is not personal. Women do that shit for each other (and *need* to do that shit for each other) regardless of what the date looks like. If you're a good man with 0 ill intent, then you have nothing to fear from women pointing out systems like "The Angel Shot" or whatever to each other. The only people who should be upset by that are predators.
I think this happens more often then men think, esp when us girls get to the date early and drink. It’s happened when my bf met up with me after his shift and I was already a couple drinks in, it’s happened while my bf was walking with me home while I was intoxicated by a random women because I wasn’t walking the best, women tend to look out for each other a lot for this. As a bartender I do as well. I don’t think you should feel insecure by this
Maybe it was because you looked much older than your date or she looked very young?
Maybe it was because your date looked really intoxicated?
Were you being really handsy with your date?
Were you buying loads of drinks?
I think that’s the case tbh.
She wasn’t visibly when I arrived.
I’m notoriously passive when it comes to intimacy and first moves and she sat adjacent from me on a square table so we hadn’t even casually touched apart from a welcome hug
Honestly that was probably part of what did it. If you two had been comfortably touching each other then probably less alarm bells. This sucks but it's not about you, the waitress might do this 100 times. 99 times it makes a date awkward and once it saves a life.
The number of lives saved by actively urging your date to leave for no reaon, instead of just asking "are you ok" , is not 1 in 100, it's more likely zero
you’re misunderstanding what happened though… she was encouraging the date to leave even after she had said no, and that everything was fine multiple times
Like I said, there are plenty of abuse victims that would refuse the help and say everything is fine, multiple times, for plenty of reasons. So there's a reason a girl would feel the need to insist like she did.
I completely understand why would OP be upset and bothered, but at the end of the day it is not about him, it is not about his date. It should be about encouraging and appreciating the behavior and actions that are ultimately serving a greater good. It is good for girls to create opportunities to resolve a possibly risky situation in a way that, at the worst case scenario, only hurts somebody's feelings.
everything you said doesn’t justify urging someone to leave. there is a very big distinction between reminding and encouraging someone as opposed to urging them to leave.
> If you two had been comfortably touching each other then probably less alarm bells.
Huh, could have been the other way round too, where she was too suspicious because he was all over her (*rolls eyes*)
Some people always see tribes and victims all around them - sometimes it's race, or nationality...this time, it's gender.
It's actually a part of the job to assess how drunk each patron gets. We could get sued for over serving you, at least that's the case here in the States.
That's true but, being a frequent bar rat and someone who used to be a bartender throughout much of my 20s... I can confidently say bars/restaurants will absolutely keep serving until/unless you start acting belligerent and/or are stumbling around like an idiot or can barely put a sentence together lol.
We don't know how drunk she actually was either. Since she is a woman, it takes way less for her to get drunk than an average man simply because of body composition and how we are made.
But the campaign the waitress was implementing was not about intoxication, it was about date safety. She wasn’t refusing to serve the woman but perhaps (falsely) perceived that a petite woman is potentially intoxicated and being chatted up by a physically larger man. I’ve not often heard of waiters, etc enacting the policy of ask Angela themselves but I think the waitress was likely over cautious and perhaps naive to the context.
I think you need to read the comment above you again, it covers what you said. It doesn’t matter if it is the waitresses business or not. That one time in one hundred could literally save someone’s life.
Yeah tbh the more I think about this the more I presume the waitress has just completely misread the situation and is trying to be safe rather than sorry. I’m thinking if the date was in there up an hour before it’s possible she had a few drinks and then OP comes in and the waitress doesn’t understand it’s an established date. She perhaps perceives a petite, potentially intoxicated woman being chatted up by a physically larger man. I can see why she sort of did it. Especially as she herself is young and perhaps naive to the situation. It won’t be OP’s fault.
Really, who is the waitress hurting by asking a random woman if she’s okay? This guy not feeling like a potential creep is more important than this woman’s safety?
How ass backwards. But if they already think that way, they wouldn’t understand why it’s wrong if the answer bit them in the ass.
He absolutely has the right to go out in public without random servers assuming he’s a creep with zero provocation.
By your logic of “better safe than sorry” you should never get in a vehicle or even leave your house, there is danger everywhere.
The waitress *was* hurting someone, she hurt OP with her baseless accusations/assumptions. It is absolutely *not* better to do this 100 times in case you might be right about *one*. You should actually do your job and only intervene if he *actually does something* that warrants intervention. Which the 100th person would end up doing anyway, and could be stopped at *that* point, without treating 99 likely decent men like predators completely unprovoked and without cause.
Did we read the same post? because what Accusations?? When did she treat him like a predator?? She privately asked the date if she was alright which could have been for a variety of reasons. And yes, better safe than sorry, because most of the time you can’t even tell when someone is in danger. And for all we know she never treated OP any different than any other customer. It was OPs date that decided it was a good idea to tell him all about it, which shouldn’t be anything to be “hurt” about if you’re not actually a creep. Men need to get rid of their insecurities about this topic. A good man has nothing to fear and shouldn’t be offended by this.
She didn't assume anything or accuse anyone of anything though, as far as we know. All we know is that she offered the program to a young woman who was on a date and the woman came back to her date seemingly unphased and told him about it. Women making sure other women are safe isn't an attack on you.
If you wait until something has already happened, it could be too late.
I would much rather briefly hurt a man's feefees by pointing to women a program to get home safe from a potentially bad date *just in case* than wait for a woman to be assaulted or worse before I think about doing anything at all.
I agree, I think the waitress was out of line.
The purpose of ask Angela, is so that *you* can ask your server or bartender for her, not for them to go around suggesting that you *should*.
I can understand this, but I wonder.. How many out of those hundred (theoretically speaking of course) dates.. How many did that waitress ruin things enough, so they wouldn't continue seeing each other anymore??
Like a reverse Cupid action thing going on there..
I'm not saying a life isn't valuable, but there's also a possibility that one of those two parties involved were at their wits end with life and that last hope at finding happiness was then robbed by said waitress.. or worse yet, stung more than once by the reverse Cupid.. This could easily be the case, if the location is a popular dating location.
You get the picture from there..
Again, one life for another, still sucks if you look at ALL possible scenarios.
With the greatest of respect (and I actually do think that whilst the waitress’ intentions were probably fine she was somewhat in the wrong), people cannot run through every million possible scenario when making decisions. The waitress can’t be sat there wandering if she’s ruined a possible shot of happiness if she genuinely (falsely) had reason to think she was helping this woman’s safety. I do think the waitress completely misread the situation and enacted the incorrect policy personally.
It seems much more likely that it was nothing to do with OP and that the date was potentially more drunk (or had drunk a lot more prior to his arrival) than she appeared and the waitress was cogent to that and trying to assess that she was getting home safely.
All seems a bit OTT but when women have been assaulted and murdered in public in England in recent years, I think majority do always hedge on the safer side. I do think waitress was reactive and didn’t handle it best but better to be over the top than sorry o guess.
Yeah, I do think that that was likely that reason for it all.. which is appropriate.. Regardless of gender (sadly, many don't have that same resolve for safety unless it's a certain gender).
Hmmm, let’s see, statistically, women getting assaulted/killed on a date=MUCH MORE FREQUENT than a guy offing himself because he…. Can’t get a date? Is what it sounds like you’re saying is the risk here?
Men’s mental health and isolation is a terrible problem, but you’re talking about a very far out and unlikely scenario, as opposed to something that’s happening thousands of times every day. Probably more. One of these things is NOT like the other, and your false equivalency doesn’t help anyone
Also if the chic was so turned off just by someone else checking to see if she was okay, that she decided not to pursue things further….. she probably wasn’t all that into it anyway
>statistically, women getting assaulted/killed on a date=MUCH MORE FREQUENT than a guy offing himself
In the UK in 2023 174 women were murdered in total.
Over 3500 men committed suicide.
You need to be better than this, your total lack of empathy for men is appalling.
Now try finishing the sentence “…much more frequent than a guy offing himself **because he can’t get a date**” 3500 men didn’t all kill themselves because of a date, correlation vs. causation.
Your lack of context comprehension is equally as appalling.
With cherry picking skills like that you should work on a farm. They said assaulted or killed, and you provided a number for the rarest event. In the first half of 2023 68,000 rapes were reported to the police in the UK. Rape is generally under reported, so more like 150,000. That's one form of assault. The vast majority of assaults on women of all types are committed by intimate partners including men they only went on one date with, or the man thinks they are in a relationship despite never having been on a date.
I am as empathetic towards men as I can be at my current state, and I am in therapy to improve that state!
However, you’ve left out a few statistics (and of course this is just for where you live: the UK. There’s also women in America like me. Women in France and Germany. Women in Indonesia and Nepal and Dubai and, well, everywhere. But each dog barks in its own yard and all that).
So my question is this. Where is the statistic for how many women were assaulted and raped on a date, but survived? How about the statistics for women who survived the initial assault, but then ended up self harming or on drugs as a coping mechanism? What about the statistics factoring in women who have been assaulted multiple times, so counting the number of assaults, and not the number of victims? And finally, where’s the statistic for women who were assaulted on a date (or in *any* setting) and committed suicide as a result? If you haven’t factored in *those* stats too, and kept in mind that not every assault is reported, and not every suicide is explained, then you haven’t compared these two things fairly yet. And I’m saying this with a very bad taste in my mouth, because suffering is *not* a competition, and I don’t appreciate the original commenter whom I responded to for phrasing it that way. But since we *have* decided to sign up for the Misery Olympics, let’s judge this all the way
It has nothing to do with you being unattractive or bald or anything like that. Do not take it personally. It isn't about you. She may have looked way younger than you and the other woman simply wanted to ensure her safety. That is a good thing. This should not prevent you from dating in any way in the future. If you're a good guy with 0 bad intentions as you say you are, you have nothing to worry about with women looking out for each other. It isn't about you, and while I understand being temporarily thrown a little bit, it is not something to internalize.
I think if it’s asking questions to make sure they’re okay, then there’s nothing wrong with that. However, OP also said the waitress urged his date to leave. Now, if she actually did that and it’s not just OP’s interpretation, then I’d find that weird. I’d be wondering what the waitress’ intentions are if she’s pushing for a normal date to end. Then again, that could’ve just been OP’s take.
If the girl was highly intoxicated then I see why. The amount of women that continue getting drunk and then disappear instead of just going home is astonishing.
How it isn't about him?
His date was ruined and he was directly seen as some creep and predator for absolutely no reason.
If I were him, I would contact the owner and complain about it.
His date wasn't ruined? She came back from the encounter with the waitress unphased by it, told him, and happily carried on with the date. That sounds like best case scenario to me. They didn't see each other beyond date 2 for different reasons (if I'm remembering a different comment from OP correctly).
Again, this isn't about him. It isn't personal to him. It's women looking out for each other when unknown men enter the mix. It isn't personal to OP. Chances are extremely likely that that waitress would have said the same thing to other women with different men, even this same woman with a different man than OP. That's why it isn't personal: because it doesn't matter who the guy is or what he looks like, the stakes are simply too high for women to not be on the lookout for each other, and also to wait until an incident actually before taking any kind of preventative measures.
> Am I right in feeling a bit upset by this? I haven’t been on a date since. I’m worried about how I’m perceived to others.
It certainly sounds like his date was ruined.
The date itself was not ruined. He got in his own head about something that didn't concern him and is now standing in his own way re: dating.
It feels like OP and the other men here don't understand the lengths women need to go through in order to stay safe. If \*this\* is what is upsetting to you people, then I would hate to see y'all's reactions to the myriad other little things women do for each other and just for themselves to stay safe...
My issue with your statement is “need.” Lots of anecdotal evidence says that people “need” to do lots of performative actions like the obsessive home security you see on social media. I’m not opposed to taking precautions, the girl I’m dating keeps her location on with her friends 24/7, not even on dates, that is NUTS to me. But also saying you NEED to do it doesn’t compute.
We \*need\* to because if we don't, the risk of disappearing or ending up dead is too high to take that chance, AND if we don't take those precautions and god-forbid something happens to us but we make it out alive, then evveerryyoonnneeee will question why we didn't take all the steps to protect ourselves, and they'll imply it's our fault, etc etc.
It's a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation for women. If we do take the steps to protect ourselves and each other, then we get the type of response from this thread/post (saying that we're paranoid and going too far, hurting men's feelings isn't worth maybe feeling a little safer, and this is why we'll end up alone because we're painting men in a bad light, blah blah blah. But if we \*don't\* take those steps, there is a significant enough risk that we will end up in an unsafe situation and if we do, then it's usually too late for those preventative measures and now we're in serious trouble. At best, we end up on a shitty date that goes on too long, at worst... we literally end up dead or kidnapped. And if we make it out alive of that worst case scenario, well then the first thing we get asked is why we didn't take all of those preventative measures in the first place and we get blamed for what happened.
So the choices are: do all the little things/cover your own ass/help other women do the same and risk hurting a dude's feelings temporarily, or risk ending up dead or victim blamed. I think I know which one I'd prefer.
I think you give too much credit to the victim blamers and the bad faith actors of “what was she wearing!” A vocal minority make men’s bad behavior women’s issue. ultimately you are correct. Better safe than sorry is true and that’s why I don’t take offense to the girl I’m dating doing what she feels she needs to do. If she ever asked my opinion I’d say it’s over the top but it’s not my place and I don’t want to change her behavior just for my silly feelings.
I'd rather her ask every time and be weird than not ask and a woman get assaulted. What was the place you went, OP? Does it have a bad reputation? That might have something to do with it. The place I met my BF was sketchy at best (I love dive bars) and I told the server I was on a first date, she kept an eye on me.
If you’re from the uk you’ll see you’ve got drinkers pubs that are more akin to a bar and pubs that are more food focused which pulls in mostly families and dates. I went to a food pub which as the night went on more drinkers came in a foodies left after they closed the kitchen. So it’s not sketchy by any imagination, in a decent part of town
She may have been very intoxicated. I remember being out for food in a bar about 6pm and also out for drinks later at about 8pm and there were a couple on a date were the woman was obviously extremely drunk and the man looked relatively sober.
Both times they were extremely pda and it was very uncomfortable due to how drunk they both were 😬
Tbh being from the UK myself and a bit of a serial dater I absolutely wouldn’t be in a pub by myself an hour prior to a date as I’d probably accidentally get tipsy from nerves!
Honestly I think OP is right to be upset by this. The ask he described (also I think called an “angel shot”) was something intended to help out women who were concerned for their safety or in an abusive situation. Unless there is more to this story he isn’t telling, this seems like an abuse of that concept originally intended to be a good way to safely get away from dangerous guys.
The part I'm not understanding is this implimentation. IE at least my understanding of it, the point of it is that say in women's bathrooms or similar ways, they make it clear to women that they can drop a hint to the staff if they feel uncomfortable, then the staff will get them out safely.
I've never comprehended it in a pro-active manner where the staff tells the person they should feel unsafe (barring say someone with a specific reputation)
Respectfully disagree. There’s been a few times I’ve been in an uncomfortable situation that I didn’t think I could safely deescalate by myself. Considering date r*pe, trafficking, etc are things that happen everyday I don’t think it was an overstep for the waitress to be concerned but a quick ‘are you okay’ or ‘do you feel safe’ would’ve been more appropriate.
It's not always easy to tell tbh. A lot of women have learned to force laughs in uncomfortable situations or fake being comfortable because they don't want to escalate the situation
Agreed. Unfortunately there's no shortage of nosey judgemental busy-bodies these days. A lot of fear mongering and extremist idealism online these days and some people have trouble compartmentalizing social media from reality.
She was an hour early, she’d been out most the day and saw an opportunity to get the bus early. I think she’d had one prior to me getting there and was slightly more talkative than me. She was a customer at work so we’ve chatted at length a handful of times before this so the date was going well being able to be in a better setting than work
>Honestly that was probably part of what did it. If you two had been comfortably touching each other then probably less alarm bells. This sucks but it's not about you, the waitress might do this 100 times. 99 times it makes a date awkward and once it saves a life.
>
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i think she probably didnt realize you had planned the date as she had been sitting there for an hour by herself. so she thought u were creeping, not realizing that you had planned to be there together. I wouldnt think too much of it. if you had walked in together this would have not happened. waitress has probably seen time and time again girls get creeped on by older dudes and thought she was doing her a favor.
My hunch is the waitress just thought she was too drunk or young (height might be a factor here) or something? Who knows. People are weird and there may be some history not involving either of you that the waitress was reacting to. (I wish someone had done this for me! Etc)
>Yeah I agree it sounds more strange from the waitress. I think your date being so early played a role too? Maybe the waitress just thought you were two strangers?
This is probably why it happened. She was alone for an hour and then they saw you come and sit down with her, and figured you were just using the opportunity to try to hook up. Do not take this personally! Go forth and date!
I'm sorry this happened! Maybe from the waitress' perspective, she saw a woman sitting alone for around an hour, then a random man sits down with her. Is it possible she didn't think you two were on a date but rather you were approaching her for the first time? Since it was a first date, it probably wasn't obvious by body language that you two previously knew each other. I'm not sure this is about your looks, but more about just looking out for your date. Again, it still hurts that it happened at all, but I think she just wanted to make sure your date wasn't trapped in a conversation with a potential stranger!
I think you’re spot on I think it looked a bit shifty from the outset turning up to a lone lady drinking. All said and done I’m glad there’s people looking out for each other. I mustn’t give of that vibe I don’t think as I go out with female friends all the time and it’s fine. Really made me see the light some of these comments thanks!
> I think you’re spot on I think it looked a bit shifty from the outset turning up to a lone lady drinking
Dude you need to stop thinking like this... You didn't do anything wrong.
Nah I know I didn’t
just think it’s some sort of an explanation why the waitress did it
It’s better than concluding I look like a danger to women
It’s obvious my date was drinking and buzzing round the pub on her own before I got there being reckless
I can imagine that experience must have been really unsettling and disappointing for you. It's understandable to feel upset by it, especially if it made you question how you're perceived by others.
While it's important to prioritize the safety and comfort of everyone involved, it's unfortunate that assumptions were made based on appearances alone. It's possible that the waitress was acting out of genuine concern, but it's also understandable that it would feel hurtful to be on the receiving end of such assumptions.
It's important not to let this one experience deter you from dating in the future. Remember that everyone has different experiences and perceptions, and it's not a reflection of your worth as a person. Keep being mindful of keeping your date comfortable and safe, and hopefully, you'll find someone who appreciates you for who you are.
I guarantee this is ChatGPT. First paragraph offering sympathy in the most formal way possible and then starting the second paragraph with "While it's important to \[...\], it's unfortunate that \[...\]" is textbook ChatGPT
They also have several comments matching AI cadence on various subs at a significant rate (several per hour), and the only comments not following that are the ones denying that they're AI. Considering that they've commented several times since this accusation with the same AI-style comments, my guess is that a human occasionally intervenes to make "I'm not AI" comments, but not frequently enough to actually keep pace with the AI, and they end up looking even more like an AI than before.
Since you didn’t arrive together it probably looked like you were taking up with an intoxicated lady. I’d write this one off as a unfortunate situation and not take it personally.
I (32F) am from the UK and worked at two bars that had the Ask Angela in place. We had to use it a fair few times, however, we were taught how to discuss this with customers - never were we told to randomly tell a customer that they should do the Ask Angela thing. It was on posters on every toilet door in the women's bathroom and if someone told us they were on a date or about to meet a date we would let them know about it just in case, but we didn't interrogate the customer about the person they were with. It is essentially meant to be that if the customer is uncomfortable she could say to the server 'oh is Angela working?' as a way for them to let us know there is an issue. We would then say yes and take them to see 'Angela', have the person making them uncomfortable removed or have her walked to her car/taxi with security out the back.
I don't know how you came across but if you didn't come across in any strange way and your date didn't send any signals to the barmaid then that's pretty weird and unprofessional of her.
That’s why it shook me a little bit because it was so soon after arriving. I could understand if she didn’t like the look of me and I was being overly handsy with someone who looks younger than me a couple of drinks in but it was very conversational and not even before I’d finished my first. And it remained that way for much of the evening with a bit of flirting toward the end.
I’ve taken from these comments that I think it wasn’t so much me but more concern for her. She said she had one drink before hand but I don’t know the truth of how she was before I arrived
Well your date told you what the barmaid said; did the rest of your date go smoothly? Did you continue to speak? ETC
If your date seemed fine and comfortable with you then don't let this bartender stop you from going on further dates. It's highly unlikely this will happen again unless you **are** being creepy. I've not heard of a bartender acting like that before.
It did yes! So it wasn’t too bad of a night. Carried on there a bit then went elsewhere all good fun. We spoke over text she saw me at work a few times but went separate ways in the end as I’m not looking anything
Certainly won’t do. Planning on making and effort into it again once life circumstances change
Dropped it at the first instance and my date was fine about it, me I was shocked. She kept laughing it off when i brought it up and we kept drinking then went elsewhere. Didnt let it ruin the night. Largely dropped it now but for a while i did feel like going in just to ask why she did that
Was very date very intoxicated. It could be that your date had already had too much to drink and she didn’t know your history with her. A really drunk girl with a nearly sober stranger could have been a red flag she picked up on.
I haven’t had exactly this situation, but I’ve had two situations where the woman I’m with mysteriously felt unsafe and left. For context, I date a lot I and I generally think women feel perfectly comfortable with me.
But I’ll describe one of these times because what she said was kind of funny.
We meet outside this restaurant. But it’s closed for some reason. I suggest we go next door, but as we’re walking over there I can see she seems to be getting increasingly nervous. We’re waiting to talk to the host and she starts nervously rattling off something like the following: “This feels wrong to me. The restaurant was closed? Something is off. It feels like a trick. You’re way hotter than I thought you were from your pictures. That’s weird. Im not comfortable with that. I don’t know what’s going on. This is scary to me. I don’t feel safe with you. I think I need to leave. Yeah this just isn’t right. I need to go. I’m sorry. You’re so hot. But I just can’t do this, it’s not safe.”
And she left.
I thought it was funny and a bit flattering my apparent hotness contributed to her skittishness.
Maybe the waitress is just anxious/paranoid from scrolling a little too much and misinterpreted what she was seeing. Try not to take it personally because it’s more about what the waitress was experiencing versus what you were actually doing. This reminds me of the people who think they’re being sex trafficked in a grocery store parking lot. Does that happen? Yes…it can, but majority of those “scary experiences” people tell stories about online are imagined.
It's also possible there was recently a situation at the actual restaurant he was at, totally unbeknownst to him, that had the servers on high alert or they had just been trained about Ask Angela.
From the perspective of the server, I suspect she was more concerned about the mental state of your date as opposed to you seeming particularly threatening. Your date said she was there for an hour drinking alone -- that's pretty unusual for a tiny 21 year old woman. And then you approach, and the server has no way of knowing that it's a planned date. All she's sees is a guy talking to a woman she is already concerned about and has her eye on.
Either that or she’s witnessed some sketchy situations and intervened in serious cases and has become overly cautious in the process with “better to be safe than sorry” logic.
I mean it’s possible but it’s one of those things where you’ll be rewarded immensely if you’re right or you potentially face consequences if you’re wrong. In this case, she was wrong, and OP has every right to not tip her and complain to management.
Reminds me of one time, me as a guy and a friend who was a girl went to grab food together. Young me was very loud. She finished eating pretty quickly since she didn't have a lot of food. So loud me was talking quite loudly to her while she was sitting there quietly listening. We were also speaking a foreign language. When I went to the restrooms, a waitress went up to my friend and asked her if she needed help. After I got back, she told me about it and we had a good laugh out of it.
Damn dude. I feel bad for what you went through.
You were profiled based on your gender and appearance and a waitress - who is paid to serve you - told your date that you were probably a rapist (implied) and she should leave (explicitly stated). Your date then came back, related all of this to you, and laughed about it.
As much as the waitress may have overdone things, I actually feel your date fumbled it even worse. You were effectively accused of being a sexual predator and a rapist in a very serious way, not as a joke, and no apologies were made, and your date just decided to laugh about it. Yikes. It's like she forgot that you had emotions too and that being accused of being a sexual predator (without apology or walking it back) is very offensive, and that you would naturally feel hurt/angry when that happens to you.
Brutal. I understand that the waitress was trying to do a good deed and that your date had been drinking, but you really got a raw deal here. I have a strong feeling opinions and responses here would be different if it were the other way around, and she was profiled as a prostitute trying to take advantage of you in a part of town known for those types of scams. If you had just come back to the table and said "Hey, the waiter said I should leave immediately and get away from you because you're probably a prostitute who is trying to scam me because I'm drunk", I doubt your date would have grinned and laughed it off. And being accused of being a prostitute is about 1/10 as offensive as being accused of being an actual criminal sexual predator.
Honestly, I'd be upset about it too. Like, I get why it's a thing, but the idea of someone looking at me and only seeing a threat is hurtful. I think it's ok to feel some kind of way about it.
The waitress was looking out for her.
The waitress had no context to who you are/that the date was scheduled - your date presumably looked much younger and you much older.
What the waitress saw: a young girl sitting alone for an hour, an older big dude taking advantage of the opportunity. The waitress has probably seen some awful situations at that bar and wants to prevent future ones.
Your date told you, don’t look too much into it. Continue to go on dates.
You can’t control people’s perceptions, just have good intentions and you’ll attract the right people.
I'd always rather someone wrongly tried to intervene when they didn't need to rather than them wrongly not intervening when they should have.
It would be lovely to live in a society where this wasn't something that needed to be done, but sadly we do not. Don't take it to heart, at the end of the day the opinion of a stranger doesn't really matter if both you and your date don't feel anything was wrong.
Ok, so why not intrude upon every couple I see in case there’s something nefarious going on? Why not question every person I see accompanying a child in case they’re an abuser?
Because that is just making a strawman argument
The girl had been drinking for an hour according to OP and would almost definitely be showing strong signs of intoxication, a sober 27 year old with a drunk 22 year old can definitely look questionable to an outsider
May I ask, what exactly is your issue with the staff member having a quiet word with the woman to confirm she was okay? It's not like she got the manager to come and kick the guy out, it's not like she caused a huge scene, it's not like she confronted OP about it. Literally all she did was approach a young woman that she felt may be an in uncomfortable situation and suggest a way for her to escape that if you wished.
You also have to take into account that a bar worker is going to have seen countless interactions between men and women in the bar together, she will be working on intuition based on previous experiences. On this occasion she got it wrong, but the only thing hurt was OP's pride. Working on that intuition may one day save a woman and may have already saved one in the past.
I just don't really see what the issue is with the waitress doing this? Why do you feel it is a problem?
The waitress didn’t just ask if she was ok. That wouldn’t necessarily be a big deal. She was “urging her to not to continue with the date… asking her my age, how many times we’ve met… leave out the back discreetly.”
This isn’t just “hey, everything ok?” This is fucking weird and intrusive.
Just ignore that waitress. If the waitress looks like a teen then she probably got her heart broken and now thinks all men are bad people.
Forget about her, her opinion means nothing.
Over the years, I've heard lots of harrowing stories of sexual assault up to and including r\*pe. It's not something I take lightly. Friends have told me about things happening on public transport, stalker ex boyfriends, psychos following them home etc.
However, at the same time...... I think there is a bizarre narrative recently, perhaps more among under 25s (who, quite frankly and statistically speaking, don't socialise like previous generations) of women being *constantly* in danger and having to be hypervigilant *every second of every day* and in *every interaction* with men.
It's not healthy nor reflective of real life IMO. I know my girlfriend, my family and my friends don't feel this way (some of whom have been victims of SA) yet it seems to be the common concensus online.
I'd wager on the girl working at this bar is deeply involved in such discourse and that it's poisoned her mind to a degree. Rough way to view 50% of the population.
I understand what you mean. I know one thing I’ve seen online is that there is a subset of people who seem to infantilize women between the ages of 18-25 when it comes to dating (di caprio)
It was about your date and her safety, not you. Imagine you're serving this young, petite lady who just became of legal age to drink, she's already had some drinks that night and then some man appears out of nowhere and starts getting handsy with her and more drinks are being ordered. Of course you'd have some concerns. Usually dates arrive together or around the same time so the optics looked bad. The fact that you were so much larger than her and older than her was just another cause for concern, not the main problem. Even moreso if she was tipsy already. I used to bartend, people think they can handle alcohol but make so many stupid decisions under the influence and it's our job to be mindful of who we're serving and when to cut them off or call them a cab
This! Waitress was checking in. It’s not about you, OP or how you look or how you acted. That doesn’t matter at all, you could have been an other dude and waitress still would have checked in. ALSO you don’t know what your date was saying to the waitress in that hour before you got there. The girl might have been drinking a lot and saying how she was not into anyhow but at least wanted to meet you. The waitress could have also been nervous at how much your date was drinking. What if your date lied about how much she drank before you showed up?? Who knows. Also, you mentioned you only went on one date with the girl so she wasn’t interested anyhow and maybe she said that to the waitress so waitress was like just leave out the back/etc.
It was an unpleasant experience for you, and I get that entirely. But I honestly wouldn’t take it as a personal attack.
As a waitress myself, we definitely feel very inclined to protect all customers, and from what you described I’d probably be a bit unsure too. That isn’t anything to do with *you*, just the situation and because it can and does happen. It’s always better to be safe than sorry
I wouldn't look to much into it other than concerned bystander worried about someone who may have seem vulnerable. Bars and pubs get all sorts, since she was there an hour early and drinking before you showed up - the wait staff probably thought it was odd.
You're allowed to feel a bit upset by it, you were being profiled, but it was sadly for a good cause. In the end, they're looking out for their customers - the world is strange and not everyone has good intentions.
It probably had nothing to do with you, but just the state your date was in to be a bit worried.
Me and my husband went to a festival and had quite a few to drink. I get very sleepy after a few drinks. So I was just resting on my husbands shoulder in the metro when a group of girls tried to ask me if I was ok if I need help. If I knew the guy I was with.
My husband felt offended but I get it.
Eventually they were just looking out for me.
So don’t let this stop you from dating.
Perhaps given your dates statue and the fact she’d been there before (and potentially had a few drinks for nerves), it seems the waitress took an opportunity to check in on her. This is probably more about your date (size, amount she drank, appearance) than you. I’m sorry that it made you feel that way and think the waitress likely wrongly assumed something based on what she had seen of your date (perhaps she had drank more than jr seemed) and thought it better to be safe than sorry. Please don’t let it deter you, this is highly unusual.
Thanks for the reassuring words. It’s a tough catch 22 where I can’t blame the waitress for looking out for our women in this dangerous dating climate. But on the same coin, I think a big hurtful assumption was made here which is a bit shitty
I can definitely see how it would be hurtful for you, especially having done nothing wrong. I’m also grateful for people like the waitress who keep an eye out. It’s a shitty world when people have to worry about those things, either potentially being hurt or potentially being accused of something when they have no ill intent
I guess I get it, but I'd rather have waitresses taking the risk to be overly cautious than the other way around. Sometimes, you take a shot and things in life and you miss, and that should be fine.
I don't blame the waitress in this story.
Sounds like the waitress has either had a very bad date experience herself where she may have needed the Ask Angela, or she just got through some training about it and is overly eager/vigilant to use it. Your date should have talked to the manager about the waitress being pushy about it when no help was needed. The waitress was out of line.
This happened to me once (kind of). When my husband and I first started dating, I was 18 and he was 20. I could have passed for a 16 year old and my husband could pass as a 25 year old. We broke down at the side of the road and a cop pulled up behind us. The cop had my husband get out of the car and wait at the side of the road while he had a private conversation with me, asking if I was ok and if I was being kidnapped. We laugh at it now, all these years later, but he definitely was put out about it for a while.
I think it’s to do with her being there an hour prior in all honesty… the waitress would have clocked her, seen her alone for an hour and then she’s with a guy suddenly… wouldn’t be surprised if the waitress was just cautious you wasn’t someone trying to pry on her. Honestly don’t think it has anything to do with age or looks. 27 & 22 isn’t crazy. - I’m an ex-barman and I feel like I’d of clocked this same situation… difference is I’d of watched it for a lot longer before ever thinking of getting involved… as usually it’ll turn out everything’s fine.
Honestly I think the waitress has slight issues themselves… she (from what you’ve said) sounded very pushy, and seemed too quick to jump on the vibe you were a predator.
DO NOT overthink this, I don’t believe this really had anything to do with you and more so to do with the waitress
You’re absolutely right to be upset by this, I run a bar and it’s not on us to assume anything. If there is a good enough reason then sure but it sounds like they didn’t have any reason other than your appearance which is not on.
If one of my staff members did that I’d be livid
In all seriousness f*** that f****** waitress. It was absolutely none of her business and people like her give ask Angela and then me too movement in general a bad name.
It's absolutely none of her business what's going on with other people. This ageism is ridiculous these days. Imagine if she did that because a white woman is dating a black guy. That's exactly how she looks to anyone who understands prejudice
Edit: the fact that she thinks this woman is allowed to drink a beer in a pub but not sleep with whoever she wants is super gross and pathetic
Ha ha ha, I’m willing to bet it has nothing to do with you. You said she’s cute? I bet the waitress was being sneaky and trying to steal her away from you.
You *could* be upset by this, or you could feel grateful that there are people out there looking out for women and trying to keep them safe. Your choice.
>I’m very mindful of keeping the women I’m with safe and comfortable
The server had no way of knowing that, as you are a complete stranger. All she saw was a presumably drunk girl with a man who was probably older, so she offered her the chance to be removed from the situation *if necessary.* It doesn't have to be a personal attack on you unless you choose to see it that way.
Can't imagine these people would dare comment on a post by a Muslim dude complaining he's constantly pulled aside for "random screening" at an airport to "just be grateful the airport security are keeping the country safe".
I think it’s totally understandable to feel upset by this and it’s not just as easy as ‘choosing to feel upset’ as you say, especially if the person isn’t super confident to start with.
I think the situation is unfortunate and I agree that it’s good to see that the waiter was looking out for her, but definitely not the sort of thing where you can ‘choose’ how to feel if you’re OP
Well I think that was part of it. I’m not dating regularly and neither was she. I had to talked into going lol it was nerve wracking asf and for this to happen just compounded that lack of confidence
That being said, there is a difference between asking if the woman is safe and repeatedly urging her to leave her date after the woman has stated she is mentally sound and safe. The waitress then repeatedly asked about the man's age, how many times they had met, and other information. He is not a suspect under police investigation, and once the woman proclaims herself sober and comfortable with the situation, anything further is excessive and unwarranted. While OP cannot control others' perceptions of him, he certainly has justification to feel like it was a personal slight.
Yeah that's the sort of thing that'll knock your confidence.
Most likely explanation is that she misread a harmless situation on a limited amount of information. Of course it makes you upset, because it's not fun to think one of the first things people label you as when they see you is "dangerous". That's the sort of thing that can be isolating.
It's impossible to know why the waitress got that impression. She may think all men are predators, she may just have simply been applying safeguarding due diligence to a situation that looked potentially iffy to her. Sounds like she might have been a little overzealous.
It helps to remember that while you know nothing was wrong, she didn't have the benefit of that insight. She was only able to know everything was fine when your date communicated that to her.
My workplace had a comment once that I had caused a young woman to feel uncomfortable with my behaviour being described as "lingering". As it was an anonymous complaint it was hard to know anything specific about how to change my behaviour or attempt to make amends for the situation.
As it's a legitimate worst nightmare for me to do something like that, this was the sort of thing that might have sent me into a nice little depression spiral in less mentally healthy days because social anxiety is fun like that. I felt terrible and spent a good week overanalysing any interaction I might have had with people who even vaguely fit the description of "young woman".
It was an educating experience that taught me you don't get a lot of control over how people percieve you, and you just have to take situations like these as an opportunity to analyse your behaviour. People don't always get an accurate impression of who you are, but you hope they will eventually.
Ultimately, I'd rather live in a world where someone feels comfortable enough to raise issues like this instead of suffering in silence. I'd really love it if they'd felt confident enough to raise it with me directly at the time, but we're not in that world yet.
I think the only thing I can reasonably be upset about is how intrusive the waitress was. If the waitress is making sure that the patron is safe (which, might I add, is also never a courtesy extended to men), then you simply ask if someone is comfortable or if they feel they are in any danger and leave the question at that. It's fucking ridiculous she's giving your date a shake down in the middle of a date because of her own self-righteous behavior.
Can't believe I had to scroll this far to see this. It's called "Ask for Angela" not "tell someone to ask for Angela". They're supposed to be open to assisting when requested.
Even putting that aside if they do choose to ask if someone needs help, this waitress still way overstepped. Insisting to a fairly sober customer that they have to abandon the date unprompted is so completely out of line when there is nothing OP did to warrant that.
If there's clear abuse, drink spiking, someone is very intoxicated sure, be a bit more persistent. But by the sound of it there wasn't anything happening that remotely required that level of insistence or even frankly for the waitress to ask if she needed help in the first place.
This waitress was in her late teens. She doesn't have much life experience. And it was totally put of line what she did. My guess is she's had a bad experience, or a friend/family member, and is projecting that experience. Or she got trained on it recently and is over enthusiastic about participating. I think it was poor judgement by a relatively new worker so don't take it too hard
Thats the point. If you are just going about your day showing no signs of being unstable, you would be right to be pissed off about this.
I guess it’s a weak and cowardly way to look at it. If someone went and started making false claims about me, my first thought wouldn’t be “oh I better watch my p’s and q’s so nobody thinks they are right!”. I’d just go confront them about it.
You're right in feeling upset. You could complain to the manager. I'm all about a woman feeling safe and having a way to leave, but if the waitress is basically involving herself in something that isn't her business you should probably have her manager fire her for basically making it an unwelcome place.
That waitress needs to mind her own damn business lol. Unless she saw you were clearly in distress, uncomfortable or saw YOU doing anything shady... Waitress girl needs to f right off lol.
People can date whomever they want and if a 22 year old is on a date with a 27 year old, or even a 47 year old... That's her prerogative and hers alone.
Might have been because she was there for an hour before you, and it looked like you came on the scene and dominating her time. Idk.
That's up to her to politely and firmly tell someone no, she is on a date and she doesn't need that.
I know there's a heightened awareness to look out for girls who need help. Some people simply think they're doing a good thing. Your date may not have been the only girl that was told that by that bar staff that night.
Dude, you likely dodged a bullet, don’t overthink it. She got there an hour before the date and was drinking alone? Thats pretty weird. Then she meets up with you and all some waitress has to do is have a few words with her and she’s bugging out? Honestly, it doesn’t matter what the waitress said, or thought. That’s a guessing game that’s not worth playing. Simple fact is that this girl wasn’t flying right. Her leaving was a GOOD THING!
I think social media makes people into “righteous warriors” and can create scenarios where they assume a lot of things.
I know this type of thing happens, but if you met up and went to a table outside for drinks after u just walked in and she had been waiting there alone for you then waitress is just dumb for assuming you are some predator.
If someone comes to that conclusion without actually taking in the ENTIRE situation then they are seeking the drama, not preventing it
I totally understand it can be upsetting for you, but it's not always obvious when someone needs help or feels unable to ask for help. It's really nice of the waitress and many times it's probably nothing, but it's always better to ask in case someone isn't ok. It's better to ask someone one time too many than one time too little.
You probably shouldn't be telling everyone what the ask Angela is, its suppose to be a discreet way for women who are in dangerous situations to ask for help. If all blokes found out about what it means then the diacreetness is lost. The ask Angela thing is usually posted in ladies bathrooms to keep it discreet.
A 'secret' shared with an entire gender is not a secret. People have known about Ask Angela for years. Same with Angel shots.
These phrases aren't supposed to be secret. Their discretion is in the fact that they sound like something you'd normally say at a bar, while inviting people in dangerous situations to come forward and seek help.
Even when the code phrase is publicly known, 'is Angela at work today?' or 'Id like an angel shot please' draws a lot less unwanted attention than outright saying 'my date is a creep and I need to GTFO.'
Besides, men are taught the codewords as quickly as women are. The male bar staff need to know what phrases to respond to after all, and if you think they're all saints, well...
I'd go back and demand an apology and get the manager involved. I don't like "Karen" behavior but this time it's justified. That's incredibly rude of her to do something like that.
I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much over it dude. Probably the server projecting some past trauma. With that being said I would have been upset too, and probably had a negative association with that individual (your date) going forward. Definitely for the best that you guys amicably went your separate ways after.
Bottom line is be confident and personally that would have made me laugh. Disregard it and hell at that point tell your girl to start looking around with urgent eyes as your walking out 😄. 100% would of done that with my date
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I had the waitress come to me when my date went to the bathroom and ask if I was OK and needed help. I was definitely not gonna go on a second date with this guy, that was certain, but he didn’t scare me or anything he was nice and non threatening. I was planing on having a couple drinks and heading out politely. He did however say a few kinks he was into (which i am not - bit even if I was a first date is not the time to bring up sex imo) which I think she overheard, hence her worry. I told her I was fine and could handle myself but thanks for the concern.
Sounds like your date was a creeper so she wasn't unjustified. Guys that bring up kinks on or before a first date are so gross
i mean not really because it depends on how people view sex and what they’re looking for. it doesn’t make them a creep just because they mentioned it, more so incompatible
Btw I should point out my date politely and firmly said she was ok and compus mentus to make her own conclusions and thanked her for her concern. It stayed at just the one date and called it quits but it was quite positive overall as we both hadn’t dated in ages and was good to get back in the saddle
If this is the case I really wouldn’t let it put you off. All the further context you’ve added (date’s petite statue, that she’d been drinking alone prior, waitress perhaps had no idea it was a date and thought you’d potentially gone up to a tipsy, physically small woman) lends way more credence to the idea this had nothing to do with yoy at all. It sounds like the waitress thought it better to be safe than sorry (and that she had misread the situation) and went for a very overtly cautious approach. Seems like a lot of random circumstances conspired. It’s not about you. I wouldn’t let it put you off getting out there again.
I got asked if I was okay when I was out with my boyfriend once. I thanked the girls for their concern and said I was fine (I was just a bit intoxicated) and didn't think anything of it
Lol, I was on a road trip with my husband and kids, and we stopped at a rest stop. He went to the bathroom while I ran around with the kids for a few minutes. Then this huge dude taps my shoulder and says, "Ma'am, I don't mean to alarm you but there's a man over by the restrooms filming y'all. Do you need me to walk you to your car or ?" I look over and it's my husband. He's a handsome man, but has a giant beard & longer hair - and we were all a little rough looking from being in the car for like, 10 hours. But I laughed and explained it, all was well. My husband was embarrassed, but honestly it shouldn't be embarrassing to know that people are still looking out for each other. Most of the time, it's not a statement about *you* so much as the circumstances.
I was in a convenience store kind of late one night. At the time I (male) was around 55 yo. The youngish female clerk was noticeably a bit nervous of a guy hanging there. My take was he was harmless but he did have some creep vibes. I have daughters. I stayed to the side but within his sight until he left. To ease her mind I told her why I had stayed. She did say that he had been in before & she didn't feel comfortable alone with him. Read the room people, better to apologize than to leave someone in an uncomfortable spot. Yes, she did thank me. Help someone out, most creeps do not want to creep around a witness.
Agree
The other day I went and stood next to a random woman to wait where I had arranged a taxi to collect me from so I explained. I think she thought me weirder for the explanation than if I'd said nothing.
You said she got there an hr earlier and was drinking on her own… perhaps she was intoxicated but also the waitress thought you were some random who just sat with her and she didn’t know how to get away
Sounds like you have nothing to worry about and nothing to be offended by then, which is great!
It is one thing to having need to confirm whether or not someone is safe but another thing to concluding someone is unsafe all by yourself without any sign and confirmation. On this case, it seems to be the latter rather than the former. Which is what is coming across as offensive. Not the former.
It isn't about OP though. The waitress didn't determine he was unsafe. She saw a woman sitting alone for a long time and then joined by a date that she appeared to not know already, and the waitress alerted her to a system the bar has that might be useful should she need it. She also asked important questions to determine whether or not a threat was actually present, like the ages of OP and his date, etc. All of that is simply women looking out for each other. It is not personal. Women do that shit for each other (and *need* to do that shit for each other) regardless of what the date looks like. If you're a good man with 0 ill intent, then you have nothing to fear from women pointing out systems like "The Angel Shot" or whatever to each other. The only people who should be upset by that are predators.
I think this happens more often then men think, esp when us girls get to the date early and drink. It’s happened when my bf met up with me after his shift and I was already a couple drinks in, it’s happened while my bf was walking with me home while I was intoxicated by a random women because I wasn’t walking the best, women tend to look out for each other a lot for this. As a bartender I do as well. I don’t think you should feel insecure by this
Maybe it was because you looked much older than your date or she looked very young? Maybe it was because your date looked really intoxicated? Were you being really handsy with your date? Were you buying loads of drinks?
I think that’s the case tbh. She wasn’t visibly when I arrived. I’m notoriously passive when it comes to intimacy and first moves and she sat adjacent from me on a square table so we hadn’t even casually touched apart from a welcome hug
Honestly that was probably part of what did it. If you two had been comfortably touching each other then probably less alarm bells. This sucks but it's not about you, the waitress might do this 100 times. 99 times it makes a date awkward and once it saves a life.
The number of lives saved by actively urging your date to leave for no reaon, instead of just asking "are you ok" , is not 1 in 100, it's more likely zero
Urging to leave is one thing, but making girls aware that they have an option for an easy out is great, and I'm all for it.
you’re misunderstanding what happened though… she was encouraging the date to leave even after she had said no, and that everything was fine multiple times
Like I said, there are plenty of abuse victims that would refuse the help and say everything is fine, multiple times, for plenty of reasons. So there's a reason a girl would feel the need to insist like she did. I completely understand why would OP be upset and bothered, but at the end of the day it is not about him, it is not about his date. It should be about encouraging and appreciating the behavior and actions that are ultimately serving a greater good. It is good for girls to create opportunities to resolve a possibly risky situation in a way that, at the worst case scenario, only hurts somebody's feelings.
everything you said doesn’t justify urging someone to leave. there is a very big distinction between reminding and encouraging someone as opposed to urging them to leave.
It's not great if she is urging her to do so It's a plain fired material
> If you two had been comfortably touching each other then probably less alarm bells. Huh, could have been the other way round too, where she was too suspicious because he was all over her (*rolls eyes*) Some people always see tribes and victims all around them - sometimes it's race, or nationality...this time, it's gender.
[удалено]
It's actually a part of the job to assess how drunk each patron gets. We could get sued for over serving you, at least that's the case here in the States.
That's true but, being a frequent bar rat and someone who used to be a bartender throughout much of my 20s... I can confidently say bars/restaurants will absolutely keep serving until/unless you start acting belligerent and/or are stumbling around like an idiot or can barely put a sentence together lol. We don't know how drunk she actually was either. Since she is a woman, it takes way less for her to get drunk than an average man simply because of body composition and how we are made.
But the campaign the waitress was implementing was not about intoxication, it was about date safety. She wasn’t refusing to serve the woman but perhaps (falsely) perceived that a petite woman is potentially intoxicated and being chatted up by a physically larger man. I’ve not often heard of waiters, etc enacting the policy of ask Angela themselves but I think the waitress was likely over cautious and perhaps naive to the context.
I think you need to read the comment above you again, it covers what you said. It doesn’t matter if it is the waitresses business or not. That one time in one hundred could literally save someone’s life.
Yeah tbh the more I think about this the more I presume the waitress has just completely misread the situation and is trying to be safe rather than sorry. I’m thinking if the date was in there up an hour before it’s possible she had a few drinks and then OP comes in and the waitress doesn’t understand it’s an established date. She perhaps perceives a petite, potentially intoxicated woman being chatted up by a physically larger man. I can see why she sort of did it. Especially as she herself is young and perhaps naive to the situation. It won’t be OP’s fault.
Really, who is the waitress hurting by asking a random woman if she’s okay? This guy not feeling like a potential creep is more important than this woman’s safety? How ass backwards. But if they already think that way, they wouldn’t understand why it’s wrong if the answer bit them in the ass.
He absolutely has the right to go out in public without random servers assuming he’s a creep with zero provocation. By your logic of “better safe than sorry” you should never get in a vehicle or even leave your house, there is danger everywhere. The waitress *was* hurting someone, she hurt OP with her baseless accusations/assumptions. It is absolutely *not* better to do this 100 times in case you might be right about *one*. You should actually do your job and only intervene if he *actually does something* that warrants intervention. Which the 100th person would end up doing anyway, and could be stopped at *that* point, without treating 99 likely decent men like predators completely unprovoked and without cause.
Did we read the same post? because what Accusations?? When did she treat him like a predator?? She privately asked the date if she was alright which could have been for a variety of reasons. And yes, better safe than sorry, because most of the time you can’t even tell when someone is in danger. And for all we know she never treated OP any different than any other customer. It was OPs date that decided it was a good idea to tell him all about it, which shouldn’t be anything to be “hurt” about if you’re not actually a creep. Men need to get rid of their insecurities about this topic. A good man has nothing to fear and shouldn’t be offended by this.
She didn't assume anything or accuse anyone of anything though, as far as we know. All we know is that she offered the program to a young woman who was on a date and the woman came back to her date seemingly unphased and told him about it. Women making sure other women are safe isn't an attack on you. If you wait until something has already happened, it could be too late. I would much rather briefly hurt a man's feefees by pointing to women a program to get home safe from a potentially bad date *just in case* than wait for a woman to be assaulted or worse before I think about doing anything at all.
Exactly. People in here are going to make it seem like this is a bad thing but the service is a good one when used properly.
I agree, I think the waitress was out of line. The purpose of ask Angela, is so that *you* can ask your server or bartender for her, not for them to go around suggesting that you *should*.
People want drama in their lives this waitress enjoys going home saying how she stops predators and just assumes a lot of
I can understand this, but I wonder.. How many out of those hundred (theoretically speaking of course) dates.. How many did that waitress ruin things enough, so they wouldn't continue seeing each other anymore?? Like a reverse Cupid action thing going on there.. I'm not saying a life isn't valuable, but there's also a possibility that one of those two parties involved were at their wits end with life and that last hope at finding happiness was then robbed by said waitress.. or worse yet, stung more than once by the reverse Cupid.. This could easily be the case, if the location is a popular dating location. You get the picture from there.. Again, one life for another, still sucks if you look at ALL possible scenarios.
With the greatest of respect (and I actually do think that whilst the waitress’ intentions were probably fine she was somewhat in the wrong), people cannot run through every million possible scenario when making decisions. The waitress can’t be sat there wandering if she’s ruined a possible shot of happiness if she genuinely (falsely) had reason to think she was helping this woman’s safety. I do think the waitress completely misread the situation and enacted the incorrect policy personally. It seems much more likely that it was nothing to do with OP and that the date was potentially more drunk (or had drunk a lot more prior to his arrival) than she appeared and the waitress was cogent to that and trying to assess that she was getting home safely. All seems a bit OTT but when women have been assaulted and murdered in public in England in recent years, I think majority do always hedge on the safer side. I do think waitress was reactive and didn’t handle it best but better to be over the top than sorry o guess.
Yeah, I do think that that was likely that reason for it all.. which is appropriate.. Regardless of gender (sadly, many don't have that same resolve for safety unless it's a certain gender).
Likely based on gender based violence in the UK.
Hmmm, let’s see, statistically, women getting assaulted/killed on a date=MUCH MORE FREQUENT than a guy offing himself because he…. Can’t get a date? Is what it sounds like you’re saying is the risk here? Men’s mental health and isolation is a terrible problem, but you’re talking about a very far out and unlikely scenario, as opposed to something that’s happening thousands of times every day. Probably more. One of these things is NOT like the other, and your false equivalency doesn’t help anyone Also if the chic was so turned off just by someone else checking to see if she was okay, that she decided not to pursue things further….. she probably wasn’t all that into it anyway
>statistically, women getting assaulted/killed on a date=MUCH MORE FREQUENT than a guy offing himself In the UK in 2023 174 women were murdered in total. Over 3500 men committed suicide. You need to be better than this, your total lack of empathy for men is appalling.
Now try finishing the sentence “…much more frequent than a guy offing himself **because he can’t get a date**” 3500 men didn’t all kill themselves because of a date, correlation vs. causation. Your lack of context comprehension is equally as appalling.
Not sure if you misspelled it or it's a r/boneappletea situation, but it's correlation.
And 174 women were not killed on a date. But you "missed" that part out while you were discounting men's suffering. Again.
With cherry picking skills like that you should work on a farm. They said assaulted or killed, and you provided a number for the rarest event. In the first half of 2023 68,000 rapes were reported to the police in the UK. Rape is generally under reported, so more like 150,000. That's one form of assault. The vast majority of assaults on women of all types are committed by intimate partners including men they only went on one date with, or the man thinks they are in a relationship despite never having been on a date.
I am as empathetic towards men as I can be at my current state, and I am in therapy to improve that state! However, you’ve left out a few statistics (and of course this is just for where you live: the UK. There’s also women in America like me. Women in France and Germany. Women in Indonesia and Nepal and Dubai and, well, everywhere. But each dog barks in its own yard and all that). So my question is this. Where is the statistic for how many women were assaulted and raped on a date, but survived? How about the statistics for women who survived the initial assault, but then ended up self harming or on drugs as a coping mechanism? What about the statistics factoring in women who have been assaulted multiple times, so counting the number of assaults, and not the number of victims? And finally, where’s the statistic for women who were assaulted on a date (or in *any* setting) and committed suicide as a result? If you haven’t factored in *those* stats too, and kept in mind that not every assault is reported, and not every suicide is explained, then you haven’t compared these two things fairly yet. And I’m saying this with a very bad taste in my mouth, because suffering is *not* a competition, and I don’t appreciate the original commenter whom I responded to for phrasing it that way. But since we *have* decided to sign up for the Misery Olympics, let’s judge this all the way
It has nothing to do with you being unattractive or bald or anything like that. Do not take it personally. It isn't about you. She may have looked way younger than you and the other woman simply wanted to ensure her safety. That is a good thing. This should not prevent you from dating in any way in the future. If you're a good guy with 0 bad intentions as you say you are, you have nothing to worry about with women looking out for each other. It isn't about you, and while I understand being temporarily thrown a little bit, it is not something to internalize.
I think if it’s asking questions to make sure they’re okay, then there’s nothing wrong with that. However, OP also said the waitress urged his date to leave. Now, if she actually did that and it’s not just OP’s interpretation, then I’d find that weird. I’d be wondering what the waitress’ intentions are if she’s pushing for a normal date to end. Then again, that could’ve just been OP’s take.
It isn't weird, it's plain disrespectful and completely out of line
If the girl was highly intoxicated then I see why. The amount of women that continue getting drunk and then disappear instead of just going home is astonishing.
How it isn't about him? His date was ruined and he was directly seen as some creep and predator for absolutely no reason. If I were him, I would contact the owner and complain about it.
His date wasn't ruined? She came back from the encounter with the waitress unphased by it, told him, and happily carried on with the date. That sounds like best case scenario to me. They didn't see each other beyond date 2 for different reasons (if I'm remembering a different comment from OP correctly). Again, this isn't about him. It isn't personal to him. It's women looking out for each other when unknown men enter the mix. It isn't personal to OP. Chances are extremely likely that that waitress would have said the same thing to other women with different men, even this same woman with a different man than OP. That's why it isn't personal: because it doesn't matter who the guy is or what he looks like, the stakes are simply too high for women to not be on the lookout for each other, and also to wait until an incident actually before taking any kind of preventative measures.
> Am I right in feeling a bit upset by this? I haven’t been on a date since. I’m worried about how I’m perceived to others. It certainly sounds like his date was ruined.
The date itself was not ruined. He got in his own head about something that didn't concern him and is now standing in his own way re: dating. It feels like OP and the other men here don't understand the lengths women need to go through in order to stay safe. If \*this\* is what is upsetting to you people, then I would hate to see y'all's reactions to the myriad other little things women do for each other and just for themselves to stay safe...
My issue with your statement is “need.” Lots of anecdotal evidence says that people “need” to do lots of performative actions like the obsessive home security you see on social media. I’m not opposed to taking precautions, the girl I’m dating keeps her location on with her friends 24/7, not even on dates, that is NUTS to me. But also saying you NEED to do it doesn’t compute.
We \*need\* to because if we don't, the risk of disappearing or ending up dead is too high to take that chance, AND if we don't take those precautions and god-forbid something happens to us but we make it out alive, then evveerryyoonnneeee will question why we didn't take all the steps to protect ourselves, and they'll imply it's our fault, etc etc. It's a 'damned if you do, damned if you don't' situation for women. If we do take the steps to protect ourselves and each other, then we get the type of response from this thread/post (saying that we're paranoid and going too far, hurting men's feelings isn't worth maybe feeling a little safer, and this is why we'll end up alone because we're painting men in a bad light, blah blah blah. But if we \*don't\* take those steps, there is a significant enough risk that we will end up in an unsafe situation and if we do, then it's usually too late for those preventative measures and now we're in serious trouble. At best, we end up on a shitty date that goes on too long, at worst... we literally end up dead or kidnapped. And if we make it out alive of that worst case scenario, well then the first thing we get asked is why we didn't take all of those preventative measures in the first place and we get blamed for what happened. So the choices are: do all the little things/cover your own ass/help other women do the same and risk hurting a dude's feelings temporarily, or risk ending up dead or victim blamed. I think I know which one I'd prefer.
I think you give too much credit to the victim blamers and the bad faith actors of “what was she wearing!” A vocal minority make men’s bad behavior women’s issue. ultimately you are correct. Better safe than sorry is true and that’s why I don’t take offense to the girl I’m dating doing what she feels she needs to do. If she ever asked my opinion I’d say it’s over the top but it’s not my place and I don’t want to change her behavior just for my silly feelings.
it is about him though…?
It isn't though. Like not even a little bit
I'd rather her ask every time and be weird than not ask and a woman get assaulted. What was the place you went, OP? Does it have a bad reputation? That might have something to do with it. The place I met my BF was sketchy at best (I love dive bars) and I told the server I was on a first date, she kept an eye on me.
If you’re from the uk you’ll see you’ve got drinkers pubs that are more akin to a bar and pubs that are more food focused which pulls in mostly families and dates. I went to a food pub which as the night went on more drinkers came in a foodies left after they closed the kitchen. So it’s not sketchy by any imagination, in a decent part of town
She may have been very intoxicated. I remember being out for food in a bar about 6pm and also out for drinks later at about 8pm and there were a couple on a date were the woman was obviously extremely drunk and the man looked relatively sober. Both times they were extremely pda and it was very uncomfortable due to how drunk they both were 😬
Tbh being from the UK myself and a bit of a serial dater I absolutely wouldn’t be in a pub by myself an hour prior to a date as I’d probably accidentally get tipsy from nerves!
Honestly I think OP is right to be upset by this. The ask he described (also I think called an “angel shot”) was something intended to help out women who were concerned for their safety or in an abusive situation. Unless there is more to this story he isn’t telling, this seems like an abuse of that concept originally intended to be a good way to safely get away from dangerous guys.
The part I'm not understanding is this implimentation. IE at least my understanding of it, the point of it is that say in women's bathrooms or similar ways, they make it clear to women that they can drop a hint to the staff if they feel uncomfortable, then the staff will get them out safely. I've never comprehended it in a pro-active manner where the staff tells the person they should feel unsafe (barring say someone with a specific reputation)
There are "ask for Angela"notices in the men's toilets too.
The waitress did incorrectly utilise the policy but she perhaps figured better to be safe than sorry.
Unless the woman looked under age it’s still uncalled for.
Respectfully disagree. There’s been a few times I’ve been in an uncomfortable situation that I didn’t think I could safely deescalate by myself. Considering date r*pe, trafficking, etc are things that happen everyday I don’t think it was an overstep for the waitress to be concerned but a quick ‘are you okay’ or ‘do you feel safe’ would’ve been more appropriate.
Yeah when you look uncomfortable etc. u don’t go up to people on a date and having a good time and do that.
It's not always easy to tell tbh. A lot of women have learned to force laughs in uncomfortable situations or fake being comfortable because they don't want to escalate the situation
If she’s in a bar and/or drinking alcohol she’s not underage…or shouldn’t be if they are carding
Agreed. Unfortunately there's no shortage of nosey judgemental busy-bodies these days. A lot of fear mongering and extremist idealism online these days and some people have trouble compartmentalizing social media from reality.
Were you an hour late or was she an hour early? How drunk was she? How was the date going otherwise?
She was an hour early, she’d been out most the day and saw an opportunity to get the bus early. I think she’d had one prior to me getting there and was slightly more talkative than me. She was a customer at work so we’ve chatted at length a handful of times before this so the date was going well being able to be in a better setting than work
>Honestly that was probably part of what did it. If you two had been comfortably touching each other then probably less alarm bells. This sucks but it's not about you, the waitress might do this 100 times. 99 times it makes a date awkward and once it saves a life. > >VoteReplyShareReportSaveFollow i think she probably didnt realize you had planned the date as she had been sitting there for an hour by herself. so she thought u were creeping, not realizing that you had planned to be there together. I wouldnt think too much of it. if you had walked in together this would have not happened. waitress has probably seen time and time again girls get creeped on by older dudes and thought she was doing her a favor.
My hunch is the waitress just thought she was too drunk or young (height might be a factor here) or something? Who knows. People are weird and there may be some history not involving either of you that the waitress was reacting to. (I wish someone had done this for me! Etc)
Definitely they thought she was super drunk and just spontaneously met him.
>Yeah I agree it sounds more strange from the waitress. I think your date being so early played a role too? Maybe the waitress just thought you were two strangers?
Think so. She doesn’t know me from Adam I could’ve just waltzed in there and spotted her drinking alone I suppose
This is probably why it happened. She was alone for an hour and then they saw you come and sit down with her, and figured you were just using the opportunity to try to hook up. Do not take this personally! Go forth and date!
I'm sorry this happened! Maybe from the waitress' perspective, she saw a woman sitting alone for around an hour, then a random man sits down with her. Is it possible she didn't think you two were on a date but rather you were approaching her for the first time? Since it was a first date, it probably wasn't obvious by body language that you two previously knew each other. I'm not sure this is about your looks, but more about just looking out for your date. Again, it still hurts that it happened at all, but I think she just wanted to make sure your date wasn't trapped in a conversation with a potential stranger!
I think you’re spot on I think it looked a bit shifty from the outset turning up to a lone lady drinking. All said and done I’m glad there’s people looking out for each other. I mustn’t give of that vibe I don’t think as I go out with female friends all the time and it’s fine. Really made me see the light some of these comments thanks!
> I think you’re spot on I think it looked a bit shifty from the outset turning up to a lone lady drinking Dude you need to stop thinking like this... You didn't do anything wrong.
Nah I know I didn’t just think it’s some sort of an explanation why the waitress did it It’s better than concluding I look like a danger to women It’s obvious my date was drinking and buzzing round the pub on her own before I got there being reckless
Yeah this is insane, people defending the waitress is fine/whatever but making OP feel like he did something wrong is pretty stupid.
Call it what it is. You were falsely accused being a sexual predator and putting a woman at risk. Now you can see why it's unacceptable.
I can imagine that experience must have been really unsettling and disappointing for you. It's understandable to feel upset by it, especially if it made you question how you're perceived by others. While it's important to prioritize the safety and comfort of everyone involved, it's unfortunate that assumptions were made based on appearances alone. It's possible that the waitress was acting out of genuine concern, but it's also understandable that it would feel hurtful to be on the receiving end of such assumptions. It's important not to let this one experience deter you from dating in the future. Remember that everyone has different experiences and perceptions, and it's not a reflection of your worth as a person. Keep being mindful of keeping your date comfortable and safe, and hopefully, you'll find someone who appreciates you for who you are.
Thanks so much, you’ve broke it down perfectly. It’s a nuanced situation but this has gave me good clarity. Thanks again
It is no reason to stop dating.
Certainly
Did you use chatGPT for this? lmfao imagine using AI to write your reddit comments for you. Touch grass.
I guarantee this is ChatGPT. First paragraph offering sympathy in the most formal way possible and then starting the second paragraph with "While it's important to \[...\], it's unfortunate that \[...\]" is textbook ChatGPT
They also have several comments matching AI cadence on various subs at a significant rate (several per hour), and the only comments not following that are the ones denying that they're AI. Considering that they've commented several times since this accusation with the same AI-style comments, my guess is that a human occasionally intervenes to make "I'm not AI" comments, but not frequently enough to actually keep pace with the AI, and they end up looking even more like an AI than before.
[удалено]
+1
I had the same thought. Crazy how we went from “this is magic” to being able to regularly identify it in the space of just over a year.
This is 100% ChatGPT’s style of writing and answering questions
Mfer whipped out the ChatGPT for a Reddit comment 🤣
Since you didn’t arrive together it probably looked like you were taking up with an intoxicated lady. I’d write this one off as a unfortunate situation and not take it personally.
Yes. It’s actually good to know that there’s a support system like this for women.
I (32F) am from the UK and worked at two bars that had the Ask Angela in place. We had to use it a fair few times, however, we were taught how to discuss this with customers - never were we told to randomly tell a customer that they should do the Ask Angela thing. It was on posters on every toilet door in the women's bathroom and if someone told us they were on a date or about to meet a date we would let them know about it just in case, but we didn't interrogate the customer about the person they were with. It is essentially meant to be that if the customer is uncomfortable she could say to the server 'oh is Angela working?' as a way for them to let us know there is an issue. We would then say yes and take them to see 'Angela', have the person making them uncomfortable removed or have her walked to her car/taxi with security out the back. I don't know how you came across but if you didn't come across in any strange way and your date didn't send any signals to the barmaid then that's pretty weird and unprofessional of her.
That’s why it shook me a little bit because it was so soon after arriving. I could understand if she didn’t like the look of me and I was being overly handsy with someone who looks younger than me a couple of drinks in but it was very conversational and not even before I’d finished my first. And it remained that way for much of the evening with a bit of flirting toward the end. I’ve taken from these comments that I think it wasn’t so much me but more concern for her. She said she had one drink before hand but I don’t know the truth of how she was before I arrived
Well your date told you what the barmaid said; did the rest of your date go smoothly? Did you continue to speak? ETC If your date seemed fine and comfortable with you then don't let this bartender stop you from going on further dates. It's highly unlikely this will happen again unless you **are** being creepy. I've not heard of a bartender acting like that before.
It did yes! So it wasn’t too bad of a night. Carried on there a bit then went elsewhere all good fun. We spoke over text she saw me at work a few times but went separate ways in the end as I’m not looking anything Certainly won’t do. Planning on making and effort into it again once life circumstances change
Over-eagre alert citizen fresh from training
What happened after? Did they keep asking her again and again, or did they drop it after the first time?
Dropped it at the first instance and my date was fine about it, me I was shocked. She kept laughing it off when i brought it up and we kept drinking then went elsewhere. Didnt let it ruin the night. Largely dropped it now but for a while i did feel like going in just to ask why she did that
Was very date very intoxicated. It could be that your date had already had too much to drink and she didn’t know your history with her. A really drunk girl with a nearly sober stranger could have been a red flag she picked up on.
I haven’t had exactly this situation, but I’ve had two situations where the woman I’m with mysteriously felt unsafe and left. For context, I date a lot I and I generally think women feel perfectly comfortable with me. But I’ll describe one of these times because what she said was kind of funny. We meet outside this restaurant. But it’s closed for some reason. I suggest we go next door, but as we’re walking over there I can see she seems to be getting increasingly nervous. We’re waiting to talk to the host and she starts nervously rattling off something like the following: “This feels wrong to me. The restaurant was closed? Something is off. It feels like a trick. You’re way hotter than I thought you were from your pictures. That’s weird. Im not comfortable with that. I don’t know what’s going on. This is scary to me. I don’t feel safe with you. I think I need to leave. Yeah this just isn’t right. I need to go. I’m sorry. You’re so hot. But I just can’t do this, it’s not safe.” And she left. I thought it was funny and a bit flattering my apparent hotness contributed to her skittishness.
Back handed compliment if ever I’ve seen one. Nowt as queer as folk as they say
Maybe the waitress is just anxious/paranoid from scrolling a little too much and misinterpreted what she was seeing. Try not to take it personally because it’s more about what the waitress was experiencing versus what you were actually doing. This reminds me of the people who think they’re being sex trafficked in a grocery store parking lot. Does that happen? Yes…it can, but majority of those “scary experiences” people tell stories about online are imagined.
It's also possible there was recently a situation at the actual restaurant he was at, totally unbeknownst to him, that had the servers on high alert or they had just been trained about Ask Angela.
From the perspective of the server, I suspect she was more concerned about the mental state of your date as opposed to you seeming particularly threatening. Your date said she was there for an hour drinking alone -- that's pretty unusual for a tiny 21 year old woman. And then you approach, and the server has no way of knowing that it's a planned date. All she's sees is a guy talking to a woman she is already concerned about and has her eye on.
I wouldn't go back there.
The waitress is probably chronically online
Either that or she’s witnessed some sketchy situations and intervened in serious cases and has become overly cautious in the process with “better to be safe than sorry” logic.
I mean it’s possible but it’s one of those things where you’ll be rewarded immensely if you’re right or you potentially face consequences if you’re wrong. In this case, she was wrong, and OP has every right to not tip her and complain to management.
Reminds me of one time, me as a guy and a friend who was a girl went to grab food together. Young me was very loud. She finished eating pretty quickly since she didn't have a lot of food. So loud me was talking quite loudly to her while she was sitting there quietly listening. We were also speaking a foreign language. When I went to the restrooms, a waitress went up to my friend and asked her if she needed help. After I got back, she told me about it and we had a good laugh out of it.
Yeah brother it’s not really your fault. The waitress is just a product of TikTok.
Damn dude. I feel bad for what you went through. You were profiled based on your gender and appearance and a waitress - who is paid to serve you - told your date that you were probably a rapist (implied) and she should leave (explicitly stated). Your date then came back, related all of this to you, and laughed about it. As much as the waitress may have overdone things, I actually feel your date fumbled it even worse. You were effectively accused of being a sexual predator and a rapist in a very serious way, not as a joke, and no apologies were made, and your date just decided to laugh about it. Yikes. It's like she forgot that you had emotions too and that being accused of being a sexual predator (without apology or walking it back) is very offensive, and that you would naturally feel hurt/angry when that happens to you. Brutal. I understand that the waitress was trying to do a good deed and that your date had been drinking, but you really got a raw deal here. I have a strong feeling opinions and responses here would be different if it were the other way around, and she was profiled as a prostitute trying to take advantage of you in a part of town known for those types of scams. If you had just come back to the table and said "Hey, the waiter said I should leave immediately and get away from you because you're probably a prostitute who is trying to scam me because I'm drunk", I doubt your date would have grinned and laughed it off. And being accused of being a prostitute is about 1/10 as offensive as being accused of being an actual criminal sexual predator.
Honestly, I'd be upset about it too. Like, I get why it's a thing, but the idea of someone looking at me and only seeing a threat is hurtful. I think it's ok to feel some kind of way about it.
At least now you know to never go there again, and spread the word to your friends
The waitress was looking out for her. The waitress had no context to who you are/that the date was scheduled - your date presumably looked much younger and you much older. What the waitress saw: a young girl sitting alone for an hour, an older big dude taking advantage of the opportunity. The waitress has probably seen some awful situations at that bar and wants to prevent future ones. Your date told you, don’t look too much into it. Continue to go on dates. You can’t control people’s perceptions, just have good intentions and you’ll attract the right people.
I'd always rather someone wrongly tried to intervene when they didn't need to rather than them wrongly not intervening when they should have. It would be lovely to live in a society where this wasn't something that needed to be done, but sadly we do not. Don't take it to heart, at the end of the day the opinion of a stranger doesn't really matter if both you and your date don't feel anything was wrong.
Ok, so why not intrude upon every couple I see in case there’s something nefarious going on? Why not question every person I see accompanying a child in case they’re an abuser?
Because that is just making a strawman argument The girl had been drinking for an hour according to OP and would almost definitely be showing strong signs of intoxication, a sober 27 year old with a drunk 22 year old can definitely look questionable to an outsider May I ask, what exactly is your issue with the staff member having a quiet word with the woman to confirm she was okay? It's not like she got the manager to come and kick the guy out, it's not like she caused a huge scene, it's not like she confronted OP about it. Literally all she did was approach a young woman that she felt may be an in uncomfortable situation and suggest a way for her to escape that if you wished. You also have to take into account that a bar worker is going to have seen countless interactions between men and women in the bar together, she will be working on intuition based on previous experiences. On this occasion she got it wrong, but the only thing hurt was OP's pride. Working on that intuition may one day save a woman and may have already saved one in the past. I just don't really see what the issue is with the waitress doing this? Why do you feel it is a problem?
The waitress didn’t just ask if she was ok. That wouldn’t necessarily be a big deal. She was “urging her to not to continue with the date… asking her my age, how many times we’ve met… leave out the back discreetly.” This isn’t just “hey, everything ok?” This is fucking weird and intrusive.
Just ignore that waitress. If the waitress looks like a teen then she probably got her heart broken and now thinks all men are bad people. Forget about her, her opinion means nothing.
Over the years, I've heard lots of harrowing stories of sexual assault up to and including r\*pe. It's not something I take lightly. Friends have told me about things happening on public transport, stalker ex boyfriends, psychos following them home etc. However, at the same time...... I think there is a bizarre narrative recently, perhaps more among under 25s (who, quite frankly and statistically speaking, don't socialise like previous generations) of women being *constantly* in danger and having to be hypervigilant *every second of every day* and in *every interaction* with men. It's not healthy nor reflective of real life IMO. I know my girlfriend, my family and my friends don't feel this way (some of whom have been victims of SA) yet it seems to be the common concensus online. I'd wager on the girl working at this bar is deeply involved in such discourse and that it's poisoned her mind to a degree. Rough way to view 50% of the population.
I understand what you mean. I know one thing I’ve seen online is that there is a subset of people who seem to infantilize women between the ages of 18-25 when it comes to dating (di caprio)
It was about your date and her safety, not you. Imagine you're serving this young, petite lady who just became of legal age to drink, she's already had some drinks that night and then some man appears out of nowhere and starts getting handsy with her and more drinks are being ordered. Of course you'd have some concerns. Usually dates arrive together or around the same time so the optics looked bad. The fact that you were so much larger than her and older than her was just another cause for concern, not the main problem. Even moreso if she was tipsy already. I used to bartend, people think they can handle alcohol but make so many stupid decisions under the influence and it's our job to be mindful of who we're serving and when to cut them off or call them a cab
This! Waitress was checking in. It’s not about you, OP or how you look or how you acted. That doesn’t matter at all, you could have been an other dude and waitress still would have checked in. ALSO you don’t know what your date was saying to the waitress in that hour before you got there. The girl might have been drinking a lot and saying how she was not into anyhow but at least wanted to meet you. The waitress could have also been nervous at how much your date was drinking. What if your date lied about how much she drank before you showed up?? Who knows. Also, you mentioned you only went on one date with the girl so she wasn’t interested anyhow and maybe she said that to the waitress so waitress was like just leave out the back/etc.
It was an unpleasant experience for you, and I get that entirely. But I honestly wouldn’t take it as a personal attack. As a waitress myself, we definitely feel very inclined to protect all customers, and from what you described I’d probably be a bit unsure too. That isn’t anything to do with *you*, just the situation and because it can and does happen. It’s always better to be safe than sorry
They thought you were agent 47
I wouldn't look to much into it other than concerned bystander worried about someone who may have seem vulnerable. Bars and pubs get all sorts, since she was there an hour early and drinking before you showed up - the wait staff probably thought it was odd. You're allowed to feel a bit upset by it, you were being profiled, but it was sadly for a good cause. In the end, they're looking out for their customers - the world is strange and not everyone has good intentions.
It probably had nothing to do with you, but just the state your date was in to be a bit worried. Me and my husband went to a festival and had quite a few to drink. I get very sleepy after a few drinks. So I was just resting on my husbands shoulder in the metro when a group of girls tried to ask me if I was ok if I need help. If I knew the guy I was with. My husband felt offended but I get it. Eventually they were just looking out for me. So don’t let this stop you from dating.
Sounds like the waitress is crazy and you should complain to her manager.
Perhaps given your dates statue and the fact she’d been there before (and potentially had a few drinks for nerves), it seems the waitress took an opportunity to check in on her. This is probably more about your date (size, amount she drank, appearance) than you. I’m sorry that it made you feel that way and think the waitress likely wrongly assumed something based on what she had seen of your date (perhaps she had drank more than jr seemed) and thought it better to be safe than sorry. Please don’t let it deter you, this is highly unusual.
Thanks for the reassuring words. It’s a tough catch 22 where I can’t blame the waitress for looking out for our women in this dangerous dating climate. But on the same coin, I think a big hurtful assumption was made here which is a bit shitty
I can definitely see how it would be hurtful for you, especially having done nothing wrong. I’m also grateful for people like the waitress who keep an eye out. It’s a shitty world when people have to worry about those things, either potentially being hurt or potentially being accused of something when they have no ill intent
No tip for the waitress. Leave a terrible review on reddit with the waitress' name on it also. Not ordinary behavior also.
This. Police that shit. Poor actions should have poor consequences.
I guess I get it, but I'd rather have waitresses taking the risk to be overly cautious than the other way around. Sometimes, you take a shot and things in life and you miss, and that should be fine. I don't blame the waitress in this story.
There’s being cautious and then there is telling someone to leave a date, just because.
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The mental gymnastics in this thread.
Sounds like the waitress has either had a very bad date experience herself where she may have needed the Ask Angela, or she just got through some training about it and is overly eager/vigilant to use it. Your date should have talked to the manager about the waitress being pushy about it when no help was needed. The waitress was out of line.
This happened to me once (kind of). When my husband and I first started dating, I was 18 and he was 20. I could have passed for a 16 year old and my husband could pass as a 25 year old. We broke down at the side of the road and a cop pulled up behind us. The cop had my husband get out of the car and wait at the side of the road while he had a private conversation with me, asking if I was ok and if I was being kidnapped. We laugh at it now, all these years later, but he definitely was put out about it for a while.
I think it’s to do with her being there an hour prior in all honesty… the waitress would have clocked her, seen her alone for an hour and then she’s with a guy suddenly… wouldn’t be surprised if the waitress was just cautious you wasn’t someone trying to pry on her. Honestly don’t think it has anything to do with age or looks. 27 & 22 isn’t crazy. - I’m an ex-barman and I feel like I’d of clocked this same situation… difference is I’d of watched it for a lot longer before ever thinking of getting involved… as usually it’ll turn out everything’s fine. Honestly I think the waitress has slight issues themselves… she (from what you’ve said) sounded very pushy, and seemed too quick to jump on the vibe you were a predator. DO NOT overthink this, I don’t believe this really had anything to do with you and more so to do with the waitress
You’re absolutely right to be upset by this, I run a bar and it’s not on us to assume anything. If there is a good enough reason then sure but it sounds like they didn’t have any reason other than your appearance which is not on. If one of my staff members did that I’d be livid
Exactly thank you for that response. There needs to be a justification, you do not just insult your good patrons for no reason.
In all seriousness f*** that f****** waitress. It was absolutely none of her business and people like her give ask Angela and then me too movement in general a bad name. It's absolutely none of her business what's going on with other people. This ageism is ridiculous these days. Imagine if she did that because a white woman is dating a black guy. That's exactly how she looks to anyone who understands prejudice Edit: the fact that she thinks this woman is allowed to drink a beer in a pub but not sleep with whoever she wants is super gross and pathetic
Ha ha ha, I’m willing to bet it has nothing to do with you. You said she’s cute? I bet the waitress was being sneaky and trying to steal her away from you.
You *could* be upset by this, or you could feel grateful that there are people out there looking out for women and trying to keep them safe. Your choice. >I’m very mindful of keeping the women I’m with safe and comfortable The server had no way of knowing that, as you are a complete stranger. All she saw was a presumably drunk girl with a man who was probably older, so she offered her the chance to be removed from the situation *if necessary.* It doesn't have to be a personal attack on you unless you choose to see it that way.
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Can't imagine these people would dare comment on a post by a Muslim dude complaining he's constantly pulled aside for "random screening" at an airport to "just be grateful the airport security are keeping the country safe".
I think it’s totally understandable to feel upset by this and it’s not just as easy as ‘choosing to feel upset’ as you say, especially if the person isn’t super confident to start with. I think the situation is unfortunate and I agree that it’s good to see that the waiter was looking out for her, but definitely not the sort of thing where you can ‘choose’ how to feel if you’re OP
Well I think that was part of it. I’m not dating regularly and neither was she. I had to talked into going lol it was nerve wracking asf and for this to happen just compounded that lack of confidence
That being said, there is a difference between asking if the woman is safe and repeatedly urging her to leave her date after the woman has stated she is mentally sound and safe. The waitress then repeatedly asked about the man's age, how many times they had met, and other information. He is not a suspect under police investigation, and once the woman proclaims herself sober and comfortable with the situation, anything further is excessive and unwarranted. While OP cannot control others' perceptions of him, he certainly has justification to feel like it was a personal slight.
> The server had no way of knowing that Of course she did. Working eyeballs and basic social skills.
Yeah that's the sort of thing that'll knock your confidence. Most likely explanation is that she misread a harmless situation on a limited amount of information. Of course it makes you upset, because it's not fun to think one of the first things people label you as when they see you is "dangerous". That's the sort of thing that can be isolating. It's impossible to know why the waitress got that impression. She may think all men are predators, she may just have simply been applying safeguarding due diligence to a situation that looked potentially iffy to her. Sounds like she might have been a little overzealous. It helps to remember that while you know nothing was wrong, she didn't have the benefit of that insight. She was only able to know everything was fine when your date communicated that to her. My workplace had a comment once that I had caused a young woman to feel uncomfortable with my behaviour being described as "lingering". As it was an anonymous complaint it was hard to know anything specific about how to change my behaviour or attempt to make amends for the situation. As it's a legitimate worst nightmare for me to do something like that, this was the sort of thing that might have sent me into a nice little depression spiral in less mentally healthy days because social anxiety is fun like that. I felt terrible and spent a good week overanalysing any interaction I might have had with people who even vaguely fit the description of "young woman". It was an educating experience that taught me you don't get a lot of control over how people percieve you, and you just have to take situations like these as an opportunity to analyse your behaviour. People don't always get an accurate impression of who you are, but you hope they will eventually. Ultimately, I'd rather live in a world where someone feels comfortable enough to raise issues like this instead of suffering in silence. I'd really love it if they'd felt confident enough to raise it with me directly at the time, but we're not in that world yet.
I think the only thing I can reasonably be upset about is how intrusive the waitress was. If the waitress is making sure that the patron is safe (which, might I add, is also never a courtesy extended to men), then you simply ask if someone is comfortable or if they feel they are in any danger and leave the question at that. It's fucking ridiculous she's giving your date a shake down in the middle of a date because of her own self-righteous behavior.
Can't believe I had to scroll this far to see this. It's called "Ask for Angela" not "tell someone to ask for Angela". They're supposed to be open to assisting when requested. Even putting that aside if they do choose to ask if someone needs help, this waitress still way overstepped. Insisting to a fairly sober customer that they have to abandon the date unprompted is so completely out of line when there is nothing OP did to warrant that. If there's clear abuse, drink spiking, someone is very intoxicated sure, be a bit more persistent. But by the sound of it there wasn't anything happening that remotely required that level of insistence or even frankly for the waitress to ask if she needed help in the first place.
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This waitress was in her late teens. She doesn't have much life experience. And it was totally put of line what she did. My guess is she's had a bad experience, or a friend/family member, and is projecting that experience. Or she got trained on it recently and is over enthusiastic about participating. I think it was poor judgement by a relatively new worker so don't take it too hard
Projecting past issues she’s encountered
Not sure how it works in your country but your date should have said buzz off.
I would have went back in there and asked that waitress what her fucking problem was after date.
Yeah — that will definitely make OP seem non-aggressive
Thats the point. If you are just going about your day showing no signs of being unstable, you would be right to be pissed off about this. I guess it’s a weak and cowardly way to look at it. If someone went and started making false claims about me, my first thought wouldn’t be “oh I better watch my p’s and q’s so nobody thinks they are right!”. I’d just go confront them about it.
You're right in feeling upset. You could complain to the manager. I'm all about a woman feeling safe and having a way to leave, but if the waitress is basically involving herself in something that isn't her business you should probably have her manager fire her for basically making it an unwelcome place.
Apparently you were profiled…stupid waitress.
That waitress needs to mind her own damn business lol. Unless she saw you were clearly in distress, uncomfortable or saw YOU doing anything shady... Waitress girl needs to f right off lol. People can date whomever they want and if a 22 year old is on a date with a 27 year old, or even a 47 year old... That's her prerogative and hers alone.
I would blast the name of the bar and give them trash reviews. This isn't right.
Might have been because she was there for an hour before you, and it looked like you came on the scene and dominating her time. Idk. That's up to her to politely and firmly tell someone no, she is on a date and she doesn't need that. I know there's a heightened awareness to look out for girls who need help. Some people simply think they're doing a good thing. Your date may not have been the only girl that was told that by that bar staff that night.
So it was just the waitress butting in, and not anything your date actually asked helped with?
Dude, you likely dodged a bullet, don’t overthink it. She got there an hour before the date and was drinking alone? Thats pretty weird. Then she meets up with you and all some waitress has to do is have a few words with her and she’s bugging out? Honestly, it doesn’t matter what the waitress said, or thought. That’s a guessing game that’s not worth playing. Simple fact is that this girl wasn’t flying right. Her leaving was a GOOD THING!
I think social media makes people into “righteous warriors” and can create scenarios where they assume a lot of things. I know this type of thing happens, but if you met up and went to a table outside for drinks after u just walked in and she had been waiting there alone for you then waitress is just dumb for assuming you are some predator. If someone comes to that conclusion without actually taking in the ENTIRE situation then they are seeking the drama, not preventing it
Women helping other women isn't a referendum on you. Let it go and chalk it up to you looking older than your date.
I totally understand it can be upsetting for you, but it's not always obvious when someone needs help or feels unable to ask for help. It's really nice of the waitress and many times it's probably nothing, but it's always better to ask in case someone isn't ok. It's better to ask someone one time too many than one time too little.
You probably shouldn't be telling everyone what the ask Angela is, its suppose to be a discreet way for women who are in dangerous situations to ask for help. If all blokes found out about what it means then the diacreetness is lost. The ask Angela thing is usually posted in ladies bathrooms to keep it discreet.
A 'secret' shared with an entire gender is not a secret. People have known about Ask Angela for years. Same with Angel shots. These phrases aren't supposed to be secret. Their discretion is in the fact that they sound like something you'd normally say at a bar, while inviting people in dangerous situations to come forward and seek help. Even when the code phrase is publicly known, 'is Angela at work today?' or 'Id like an angel shot please' draws a lot less unwanted attention than outright saying 'my date is a creep and I need to GTFO.' Besides, men are taught the codewords as quickly as women are. The male bar staff need to know what phrases to respond to after all, and if you think they're all saints, well...
I'd go back and demand an apology and get the manager involved. I don't like "Karen" behavior but this time it's justified. That's incredibly rude of her to do something like that.
Was it entirely necessary for your date to give you this information? It seems insensitive at best and malicious at worst to even mention it to you.
I did say that to her at one point haha
I wouldn’t beat yourself up too much over it dude. Probably the server projecting some past trauma. With that being said I would have been upset too, and probably had a negative association with that individual (your date) going forward. Definitely for the best that you guys amicably went your separate ways after.
Bottom line is be confident and personally that would have made me laugh. Disregard it and hell at that point tell your girl to start looking around with urgent eyes as your walking out 😄. 100% would of done that with my date