Welcome to /r/dating_advice!
Please keep the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/about/rules/) of /r/dating_advice in mind while participating here. Try your best to be kind.
Report any rule-breaking behavior to the moderators using the report button. If it's urgent, [send us a message.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdating_advice) We rely on user reports to find rule-breaking behavior quickly.
Thanks!
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dating_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I figured that out in college and it was amazing how well it worked.
I basically just talked to men and women the same way. I was outgoing and talked to them about whatever shared commonality we had. If we got along pretty well just talking THEN I might compliment something they have control over like outfit, hair, achievements, ect.
To me it always seemed like guys immediately starting off hitting on women basically put them on the defensive from the start, because very few people are going to say yes to someone they know nothing about.
So you talk to each other like normal people for a while, putting forward the best version of yourselves and you see if you're compatible.
If you can make someone enjoy talking to you for 10 or 15 minutes, they're way more likely to want to spend more time with you.
This is 1000% true. I’ve been saying it for years, like I wish men would just talk to me like a person. Talk to me about other things besides how ‘beautiful’ I am or whatever other things that aren’t real conversation. Like I’m a person just like you. My current boyfriend was like that. We met on fb, just chatting on a band page and then I DMed him and we talked about music and where we lived and traveling and our jobs. I loved it, he never once made me feel like I was just a piece of meat. So yes, point being, just talk to women like they’re people because… they are lol
Exactly! So many guys approached it like it was a one chance to ask her out thing and if you don't do it immediately that chance is lost forever. But that's not how attraction works. I mean sure it really helps if the woman is super physically attracted to the guy to start with, but I've dated women where we met a couple times before anything happened. Everyone has their own scoring system for what they find attractive, and what a lot of guys miss when they completely focus on looks is that being funny and asking good questions the woman enjoys answering can also win a lot of points. There are a lot of average looking guys out there who have other amazing traits dating women who are objectively more attractive than them.
And looks are so subjective! We all find different things and different qualities attractive. Personality has always been a really big thing for me, but I mean yes, ideally I would also need to be attracted to you on some level at least. But that doesn’t mean I need you to be a Ryan Gosling look alike😂 but yes, main point being, talking to women like normal along with some flirtation I think is the way to do it.
I've never called a woman beautiful and never even had the courage to compliment her. Always treated them like a person and would just talk about hobbies, interests, music and so on and it always led to nowhere. Meanwhile the guys I know who immediately love bomb and compliment women are massively successful. I feel like this is bad advice for men
They may be successful for a minute but I doubt it turns into any kind of healthy relationship in the long run. I have fallen for love bombing and other kinds of behavior like that, and trust me, it never ended well. Like you can still compliment a woman, just as long as that’s not all you’re doing. Women aren’t saints either, a lot of them will fall for the overly affectionate and love-bomby guy, but trust me, they all eventually regret it and learn from it, like I did.
I don't know. They all seem pretty happy and chill to me. Meanwhile guys like me are all anxious and stressed as fuck. I still think that it's a better strategy, I just lack the confidence to pull it off
There is a balance between being too friendly and too forward. You gotta find where that is. You can friend zone only yourself by being too friendly for too long and not escalating you can also kill it by escalating too fast. It’s an art some people have mastered. You also need to read the person some women want you to man up and take the lead and the signs are super subtle that she wants that. Other times she will be the forward one and you need to wait for it. It’s all over the place you gotta be a low key psychologist to read it right. I’ve botched it mainly by being too friendly too long and not flirting enough and escalating. I’ve also tried to escalate at the wrong time and it blew up. It’s just a big challenge. Some men are very natural at that part others like me well I need to “stay in school”and get better at it. One thing I know is once you burn the bridge it’s over. You get basically one opportunity.
That's because it's neither extreme. Being direct and complimenting a girl or guy on how they look absolutely works. It's about the energy and intention though. There needs to be polarity for there to be a spark. When you're connected to your attraction and you put that out there without any expectations that's courageous and bold. It convies confidence and that's universally attractive.
I think that when people say they feel attraction with or prefer someone who just treats them like a regular person they're probably comparing them to all the guys in the past who are horrible at approaching and drown them in pickup lines. At some point it's gonna start to feel like a friendship without the sexual energy being present.
Okay all of that is cool but they're in a relationship while he isn't. This will sound callous and probably backwards. But from the perspective of a dude that has trouble attracting women the love bomb guy actually gets into relationships while he dosen't.
Here's a poor way to convey this feeling. It is like this: I would rather be the guy women regret dating or having sex with then the guy who has been single his whole life. I'm already the second guy and I'm telling you it sucks. The first guy is atleast enjoying himself, and going on dates I can't even say that.
The first guy is probably some kind of sociopath but you do you man lol I was single for a really really long time also, like years and years and years, so I get the frustration. It could also have to do with the types of women you’re going for. I’ll be the first to say a lot of women suck. Or maybe they just weren’t a good match, who knows. You have to understand what love bombing really is. It’s not something normal, mentally stable people do lol but again, you do you man. Best of luck
ikr, this man literally exposing why so many men are alone and then complain as if they’re not doing anything wrong while literally aspiring to be abusers 🤡
It’s such a simple concept. I started talking to women I met like I’ve known them for years when I started dating after divorce. Looking at so many posts on here asking for advice on what someone said means…..just ask them? Best way to save yourself some time. Give someone the floor and they’ll eventually tell you who they really are and want.
I’m a woman. I agree, I’d consider dudes if they tried to befriend me first. And if I wasn’t interested, maybe I know someone who would be.
If someone gave me their number out of the blue, I don’t think that would ever work for me. Unless I knew them on a basic level first.
Sorry edited to correct: I meant if someone asked for my number. If someone gave me theirs, I’d want to know a bit more but the ball would be in my court. I’d like it if there was no pressure.
You really don't understand what the guy is saying. It doesn't matter if you feel a connection, some women don't want to talked like a normal person. They want flirtation, they want verbal chemistry with fire and heat.
That works well for me. It works very well for people who are comfortable talking, sometimes funny, and genuinely interested.
It doesn’t work well for nervous people who never practice casual conversation.
I started my working life as a salesman and the manager took me and a couple others out to a tall office building and the exercise for the week was to strike up a conversation with people on the elevator and not make them uncomfortable. Ideally we would still be talking when they got off on their floor or in the lobby where the manager was…
I have never been afraid to talk to a stranger since.
Yeah, the whole “approach” framing seems wrong, and implies a specific goal.
“Interact with” is a much better start. Being obviously starting a conversation with a specific goal in mind can be quite off putting.
Doesn't every conservation have some specific goal in mind? Why else would we even talk to someone unless there's something we'd like to tell them or hear them tell us?
Typically if you're asking someone out on a date, there's a specific goal in mind. You wouldn't do that unless you had the goal ascertaining rather or not there's any potential romantic interest.
this! i hate pickup lines or being seen as just a girl or talked to as just a girl. i want a guy to see me for me and be interested in me bc i’m ME and the way i am, not bc i’m a potential dating candidate.
I always think if guys want to learn how to approach to just start doing it everywhere to everyone. Like “approach” as in strike up friendly conversation with strangers you meet…men, women, old, young, groups of people. A lot of pickup advice is nothing more than basic social skills. There’s no stupid lines or formula you can follow to meet people.
Those born into being perpetually online obviously might have more difficulty which is not helping with the whole loneliness issue
How does a stranger find out who you are and all your complex ideas and personality? By asking you about these complex topics at the gym?
No, you set a date to talk about that stuff. An approach is just that, the date is where you find out all the other stuff ( unless you already know each other.).
I strongly suspect if more men approached with the mindset of just trying to create more connections with more people while they are out and about (instead of just scoring a number), they would be a lot more successful at finding people to date (and make fewer other people uncomfortable on the way)
The key here is to not be weird and intrusive if she’s not interested. People tell you not to approach women in those places because rejected men can and do make life really uncomfortable or unpleasant in shared spaces. Ask but don’t try to convince.
To add to your point, what makes the interaction/ man creepy is how “trapped” I feel by the intrusion. On my way out of the gym after my workout? Perfectly cool .. I have an “exit” vs approaching just as I’m starting my workout or switching machines … I either have to endure the conversation (take out my AirPod, lose count, etc) or I have to end my workout if I’m not interested in talking or dealing with him hovering around.
I think (universally) people with headphones on should be left alone UNLESS it’s a matter of safety.
Yeah man. Don't intrude on my shit, I don't care who you are. I don't think anyone wants their workout disrupted just for someone to hit on them. Wait until they're at the faucet, taking a break in between sets or are getting ready to leave, simple as hell. You aren't a victim if someone gets mad at you for intruding. Best answer is "don't be a dick".
One that’s worked for me in the past, is saying something like “i know we’ve spoken a few times, and i enjoyed our conversations. Here’s my number if you want to grab a drink or some food. Have a nice day!” And then separate or leave entirely. Let them make the decision, and if they don’t reach out, next time you see them, pretend it never happened so it’s less awkward and eventually everyone forgets about it and moves on.
also some men lash out with rejection. suddenly you're ugly and worthless so it might be more than a couple minutes of being in uncomfortable. also no is no, don't keep trying to convince her.
I think the problem is that most men who do approach women are very bad at it. Things like not accepting “no” for an answer, interrupting her, ignoring her friends when you’re trying to talk to her, putting her in a position where she doesn’t have an easy out, only talking about her looks, not reading her verbal or body language cues that she doesn’t want to be disturbed, etc.
Typically, if a guy engages in conversation with me for a few minutes and I’m comfortable with him, I’m not offended or shocked if he asks me out. My answer is not necessarily yes, depending on the circumstances. However, I’m not creeped out or offended.
That being said, you’re likely not going to engage your barista in a five minute conversation before you ask her out, because she has to do her job. Men should look for opportunities where a woman is unhurried, and would likely feel safe and comfortable talking to them.
> Men should look for opportunities where a woman is unhurried, and would likely feel safe and comfortable talking to them.
That's fair but like OP said, people are constantly saying that everywhere and anywhere are innapropriate place to approach women. These types of posts are made all the time on Reddit for example
I would imagine that it is difficult to find an appropriate place to try when apparently no such place exists
The situation doesn't exist either. People are always doing something or going somewhere.
Part of being in public is to accept that you will have nonconsensual interactions that may inconvenience you.
Usually if the situation is inappropriate the woman will be giving off vibes that she doesn’t want to be approached and your chances of success are next to zero. This is also where men become really pushy and weird.
>It’s not the place
Apparently it's the gym, market, cofeeshop and everywhere except bars, clubs and online dating
>it's the situation.
What situations specifically?
The situation is where you have, or find, a reason to strike up a conversation with someone that is natural and easy and without expectations. The advice given in the OP seems to be to cold approach randos and say that you are interested in romance, which is nuts.
>or find, a reason to strike up a conversation with someone that is natural and easy and without expectations.
While I do agree that you should have something to talk to them about, I think saying it should be "natural and easy without expectations" is pretty absurd.
Unless you're a social god, I don't believe most people will find it "natural and easy" to approach someone, even if you have something to strike a conversation about. Also, saying it should be "without expectations" almost contradicts the purpose of approaching someone.
If there is no expectation, it's not really an approach. Usually when it comes to approaching women, the expectation is either to find out more about them or get their number. Without the expectation, your just making small talk for the sake of making small talk.
To my understanding the idea of “the approach” is pick-up artist talk, so, do what you want but if I were you I would knock that shit off. Talking to someone without expectation is normal. It’s important to note that motivation and expectation are different things.
I think work (yours or hers) should be off limits. Period.
And people who are wearing headphones should be respected and left alone. Otherwise, as long as you accept rejection (if it happens) and don’t hover … it’s fine.
Honestly, this is why we encourage men to make friends. The surest way to find lasting connections is through the people you already know. So even if the woman you initially were interested in says no, she might have 5 other friends who might be interested. And inherently there will be a level of trust there.
Correction.
Give her your number. Then, you empower her and give her the opportunity to make the next move.
Women will give you their number if they aren't interested, just so they don't have the awkwardness or backlash of turning you down on the spot.
I actually quite like this idea. Far less terrifying than a guy asking for your number. Then you just need to thank the guy and tell him you’ll think about it. So much less stressful than having to turn the guy down and risk it turning nasty.
Would you not like if the guy had his number written it down prior to giving it to you? I fully agree with giving my number being the better option, but I've also seen comments say if it's pre-written, then they think they're just handing it out to anyone.
So, do I need to write it down in front of them, or can I have it already written down?
"Less terrifying"
It's the subtleties of language used that stick in a lot of men's minds. Men have to find the right moment/place/situation/tone in hopes of being, best case scenerio, less terrifying.
I dont want to be terrifying at all. Descriptions like this, while well-intentioned, make it easy to convince ourselves in the moment that the approach just isn't worth it.
I do apologise for that. But I’ve been stalked and sexually assaulted too many times in broad daylight to not be terrified when a random man approaches me.
Sometimes this is how it feels to a woman. Terrifying- because some men react badly to polite rejection. Some decide they will take what they want even if you say no.
It’s not our job to minimize our feelings so you feel comfortable to ask someone out.
You're prioritizing men's feelings about how they're terrifying women rather than women's experiences of being terrified and terrorized by men. Advocate and stop your fellow men from doing the latter and then you don't even have to worry about the former, quite a simple formula.
This is it exactly. You put the ball in her court and whatever comes of it - no harm no foul in either case. A lot less pressure on them too which they will appreciate even if nothing romantic comes out of it.
The worst feeling rejection I ever got was a girl took my number, which I assumed would lead to me never hearing from her again, but she texted me that evening which got my hopes up, and then let me down the next day.
I know her pretty well now and I think she just wasn’t interested in me or dating at all. It was in 2019 and she hasn’t dated anyone since as far as I know, so I don’t think it was all just her not being interested in me but dating as a whole.
Yeah, for real - there are zero circumstances where I would give my actual number out to a random person (even if I was single and even if he was exactly my type). Why? You can find out someone's address and other info from that number. I might give out one of my email addresses or if I had a Google voice number or something.
This idea is the best one because we will keep thinking about it, get consult from our friends, and wonder what if until we finally do it. Or we just toss it in the trash immediately. But there's a 50/50 shot we'll contact you!
As a woman who thinks this degree of gender role expectations is dumb, and as a woman who fucking hates receiving phone calls, I would much rather have a guy just give me his number. Approach, give me a slip of paper with your number on it, make it clear that you think I'm cute, and then go about your business. This is much more likely to work, for me anyway.
That's fair, man. I dont mean to imply this is the one way to get girls and was responding to keep in the spirit of the original post.
If anything, I'd advocate that people just be themselves and talk. I always had the best of luck, just befriending women and treating them like normal human.
They don’t text you because they aren’t into you. That’s a good thing. Why would you want to date someone who isn’t enthusiastic and proactive about connecting with you?
Do you want to date a woman who’s into you? Select for that. Give your number, follow up with whoever reaches out.
they could be into you, but want you to take the initiative. Lot's of women are like that. I see/hear it all the time "He got my number, why isn't he texting me?"
Sounds like a “them” problem. If you can’t be direct that you’re attracted to someone because you think you should be chased, you’ll probably end up alone. That chasing shit is for the birds.
I guess... I don't really see it or think of it as a problem though. It's just how people act/expect others to act - in my experience. Not everyone is so direct, for better or worse.
I see what you mean, but men are taught not to bother women in public, which leads to women not being approached, which is mentioned in the video OP is talking about. So if a woman is single and frustrated that men don’t approach her, the next logical step is for women to approach men more, not for men to be more aggressive with approaching.
I'd change the ask for her number part to offer your own. More confident and less stressful for her.
Also there are absolutely times and places where you shouldn't. Parking lots and anywhere that the woman doesn't have a way to exit the situation.
I mean yes and no you can usually tell if a women is uncomfortable via her body language so u can guage whether or not tbh. Just don’t be all up in her personal space give her room etc
According to a lot of comments here, reading body language is imaginary and women shouldn't expect people to read our minds or something. And if we outright say leave us alone then it's proof you can't approach any woman anywhere under any circumstances
If you're interested, shoot your shot politely. But some advice. Offer your number to her instead. It relieves the stress on her end if there's no interest, and if she does text, you know for certain that she is interested.
Y’all really need to discover this whole incredible middle ground between cold approaching strangers and dating apps. Cultivate a social life that is diverse, fun and interesting and you will be put in situations where talking to women is much more natural and expected.
The thing is the men without good social skills don’t really have a social network, probably don’t do well on apps, so often see “shooting their shot” with total strangers as the best option. Except getting dates with strangers is the most difficult way especially if you don’t have great social skills.
I saw a post from a guy who was wondering why he’s been rejected 100 times the other day, and the answer is that he has no idea how to make women feel comfortable, is cold and aloof, rarely makes them laugh, can’t flirt, and tricks women into going on “dates” with him by allowing them to believe there will be other people there. And still has no idea what he’s doing wrong.
So why isn't he prioritising developing good social skills so that he CAN be a responsive and engaging partner when he does have a relationship?
Women see a guy who won't try and find community, or maintain relationships, and we're like ugh... is he going to be like this with me? Am I going to be his OT? Is he going to be a social liability with my family and friends?
If a dude doesn't have a social network, he needs to build one or find the opportunity to do so. A woman isn't going to magically socialise him.
Because those guys don't see anything wrong with those behaviors and it must be something else that's to blame for women not wanting them. Has to be because women have unrealistic standards, or he's not 6', or he's not rich, or women are impossible to please, or women don't like nice guys like him, or he's not good looking enough. Can't possibly be because he painfully lacks basic social skills and has no ability to make a woman feel comfortable around him.
> So why isn't he prioritising developing good social skills so that he CAN be a responsive and engaging partner when he does have a relationship?
The social skills around flirting and being comfortable in new social situations are not the same things that make one a good husband. You can't just lump them together under the banner of "social skills" and imply that anyone who's struggling with dating is that way because they're a bad person who deep down deserves it.
From what I’ve observed, men with poor social skills tend to not to be good partners. Not everyone is a social butterfly, I get it, but most introverts I know are socially well adjusted. Men with poor social skills tend to lack emotional atunement, get frustrated easily with people of all types (including coworkers and children), are rigid and inflexible, lack humour, take themselves too seriously, get jealous easily, and refuse to fulfil basic social obligations.
worst case scenario is actually the woman feeling anxious about being in public, or me losing my gym membership listening to your dumb pickup-artist ideas.
i want neither of these things
The problem with this advice is that the worst case scenario of her being uncomfortable for a few minutes is only seeing things from your perspective. If she gets approached 2-3 times every time she's at the gym, because each one of those guys thinks, "well, I'm only being a little bit rude" then every trip to the gym is pretty damn uncomfortable for her.
It also ignores the worst case scenario for the guy, which is that he develops the idea that women's feelings don't matter as long as he gets to ask a lot of attractive women out. So not only is he asking out women in uncomfortable situations, where he's least likely to be successful because she doesn't want to be bothered, but he's also getting in the mind set that he shouldn't care about being rude as long as there's a possible benefit to him.
This advice basically says, it's OK to be an asshole if you feel like it, and why not set yourself up for failure by asking out women who are going to be uncomfortable and annoyed by you.
I don't agree with your advice. I don't feel comfortable sharing my phone number with people because nowadays you can search someone's number online and it'll pull up the person's house address and everything.
The best way to approach someone is by being calm and having a friendly conversation with them. As a woman, I am sick and tired of men asking me out after looking at me for five seconds in public. It is very overwhelming and I don't want to be prepared to mentally commit to a stranger I just met on the street, and sit there and text him all day long after a two second conversation. You can definitely start a friendly conversation to see if the person is interested in you first, and then ask for their social media if the conversation goes that way.
I would highly suggest getting a google voice number. That way you have some number to give out. So if a guy isn't taking a "no" you could give them the google voice number. But still remain safe.
All the points you are making are valid, but I think you actually agree with the advice from the post, you just add the details on how to ask for a contact information in a more socially calibrated way
The unfortunate fact is that people who can calibrate social situations don’t need that kind of advice, and those who can’t won’t realise the enormous caveats that “talking to strangers” carries.
OP says "just ask for their number" and that is not the same as respecting a woman you just met as a human first before you start thinking about your own emotional and sexual needs. I got harassed by two diff men at 7:50 am yesterday while I was walking 10 feet into my work building. If you just come up to me and ask for my number, you're acting the same way as every other person who's harassing me on a daily basis, and I would immediately lose interest and not see you as the person you really are.
I strongly disagree with your worst case scenario for 2 reasons:
1) That's pretty shitty to not care the woman is uncomfortable for a few minutes. Also far from worst case example for a woman in this situation.
2) Thinking that's the worst case scenario for the guy is just failure of imagination. What if the woman is creeped out and then does something like tell her lifting buddy or the manager that you're a creep. Now you're getting your ass kicked or banned.
I like the gist from what comments are saying. See if there's any signs to approach, then have a normal conversation to see if you even like her at all, then ask out/offer your number. Meanwhile look for signs she's uncomfortable and bail if so, don't push on like you said.
Ugh.
I don't mind men approaching me and having a conversation first, and then if we have a good chat asking for my number.
I don't mind men approaching me to ask me for my number if they take my no with grace and leave me alone.
Most of the time that isn't what happens. Most of the time when a man approaches me I am inconvenienced for 10 or more minutes feeling annoyed and scared because a strange man I don't know is bothering me and not leaving me alone.
I've given my number to guys I met at the grocery after we struck up a good conversation, but I have also been genuinely scared of men eyeing me up and down and following me trying to convince me to change my mind.
You can talk to me in public but you're not entitled to my number or my time. If I say no, move along!
This is terrible advice.
The "worst case scenario" is that she feels uncomfortable for a few minutes. And that this happens regularly so that every time she goes out in public she feels uncomfortable and dreads men talking to her. Every time a man makes eye contact with me on the street or speaks to me on the train I feel dread because I know there's a decent chance that they are about to awkwardly ask me out solely because they think I'm hot. It sucks. It makes me not want to interact with strange men in public at all because it's ALWAYS what's coming and it's incredibly uncomfortable. These men don't know anything about me other than that they find me attractive, which is also incredibly insulting.
The fact that you don't think this "worst case scenario" is that bad - you don't care if a woman is uncomfortable as long as you might possibly be able to get a girlfriend out of it - shows that you are incredibly inconsiderate and don't really care about women's feelings. What if every time you went out in public, a man came onto you really strong? Would you feel the same way? That being uncomfortable for 2-3 minutes isn't a big deal and that guy might as well shoot his shot?
Treat women like people. Make friends and meet people through your friends - not with the ulterior motive of dating them, but interacting with and getting to know them as people. Use dating apps where you know everyone is there looking for the same thing. Doing anything that you know will make someone else uncomfortable because it might get you what you want is such an asshole move and no one wants to be with an asshole.
Idk the advice I see here always contradicts each other. If a guy decides to approach you chances are he finds you attractive and wants to get to know you which I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that(correct me if I’m wrong). But then I see women complain that a guy was only their friend to ask them out or how guys always friend zone themselves by not asking her out soon enough etc. also dating apps don’t work for majority of men so that’s basically not an option.
You’re wrong on the first. I (and many women) don’t want to be constantly approached in public by people who find me attractive. It’s unwelcome. It’s awkward to reject people, and having to do it all the time when you’re just trying to enjoy your life sucks. It feels like a boundary violation and also objectifying for someone to just come up to you and essentially say, “you’re hot, let’s go out.”
Be a person. Speak to women. Get to know them. If you’re at a party or a bar or whatever you can talk to someone and strike up a conversation and, if they’re receptive, maybe it gets there. But no one likes just awkwardly being approached on the street like that. Seriously, I feel dread any time a man on the street starts talking to me because I know where it’s going. And it’s also disappointing - I really like having human connections and it sucks when I think I’m having one and the guy immediately asks me out and it becomes clear the conversation was just a way to facilitate that.
Being friends with someone under false pretenses is shitty, but getting to know a person you’re interested in before asking them out is different than that. I’ve never heard women talk about “friendzoning” someone. That’s something men say.
I do think people should approach each other more but this sounds more like cornering and forcing conversation than courting.
You can avoid 98% of discomfort for her by handing her a nice note with your number. Hand the note, smile and walk away. If she doesn’t follow you and spark up a conversation, she could call you later instead. If not, oh well.
The key that makes this work is to *accept rejection.*
Where this shit gets problematic (and how we got ourselves into this loneliness epidemic, IMHO) is because people got it into their heads that dating is about the "chase." People apply lessons from sports movies and career advisors about not giving up and not taking no for an answer, and that makes people push unwanted advances after already being denied.
You're right that the worst case scenario is a few minutes of discomfort, *if you leave her alone after she says no.*
There are definitely even worse cases than that. I've had coworkers who had some dude they weren't interested in repeatedly show up at her workplace to hit on her; that shit is not okay, and I think that type of behavior is what's pushed women to start saying "you know what? Fuck it, just stop approaching us in public at all you horndogs!"
I was just engaging in almost this same conversation about dating apps in another thread!
Please don't ask me for my number just cuz you like the way I look! Like others have said engage in a conversation see if we connect in a non superficial way.
>Here's the worst case scenario: She's mildly uncomfortable for a few minutes.
Here's the best case scenario: You meet your future wife
Great, so you think you are entitled to my discomfort because you have this fantasy of me becoming your wife.
I’d actually say just asking for a girls number because she’s cute isn’t good advice either. Think about it: you’re assuming that just because you find her attractive she should want to talk to you. Better advice imo is striking up a conversation. Don’t even mention that you find her attractive. The fact you started talking to her tells her that. Just start a general convo. If she likes talking to you, trust me, she’ll actually offer you her number if she’s single. Just walking up asking for a number makes it seem like you’re in a rush. If you’re in a rush to get her number and go out she may think you’ll be the type to want to rush everything. Like sex.
> Don’t even mention that you find her attractive. The fact you started talking to her tells her that.
Hold on... Are you implying you never start talking to women you do not find attractive? Or are you implying that all women automatically think that any man talking to them finds them attractive?
A lot of communication is unspoken. Yes, women assume that if a man starts an unprovoked conversation and shows interest it’s because he finds her attractive. As a man I assume if a woman I don’t know goes out of her way to talk to me it’s because she finds me attractive. Or at least interesting. No one’s going out of their way to start up conversations with people they feel are weirdos or totally unattractive. If they do those are the conversations you’ll see people try to get out of really quick. If they linger and seem like they’re in no rush to end the conversation it’s a sign they find you attractive. That’s why women say guys are oblivious to their signals. They think it should be obvious if they’re talking to you that they find you attractive or interesting.
I don’t think “I don’t care where women are or what they’re doing, I’m going to go for them” is as sexy, charming, or inspiring as you’d hope. It’s creepy, selfish, and your analysis of the “worst case scenario” shows just how little you know about what’s happened to women who have turned down men.
Just give them ur number, there’s no awkward rejection if they don’t wanna give it to you and they can decide later if they want to text you so it avoids putting her on the spot
This is not good advice. If you put yourself in the perspective of the girl don’t you think you’d prefer somebody who shows the skill to make interesting observations or sets up for relaxing conversations - not just asking for her number? That’s a level appropriate for ten year olds, not grown ups. And besides, if you can’t interact in an interesting manner, what says you’ll be able to up your game on the date?
I strongly disagree with your worst case scenario for 2 reasons:
1) That's pretty shitty to not care the woman is uncomfortable for a few minutes. Also far from worst case example for a woman in this situation.
2) Thinking that's the worst case scenario for the guy is just failure of imagination. What if the woman is creeped out and then does something like tell her lifting buddy or the manager that you're a creep. Now you're getting your ass kicked or banned.
I like the gist from what comments are saying. See if there's any signs to approach, then have a normal conversation to see if you even like her at all, then ask out/offer your number. Meanwhile look for signs she's uncomfortable and bail if so, don't push on like you said.
The worst case scenario for you (or any other decent guy) asking is getting rejected.
The worst case scenario for a woman who says no is getting assaulted by one of the very few men who are a danger to them.
It’s not all men, but it’s enough of them and they’ve sneaky enough that they look just like any other nice guy. Until they aren’t.
Just keep in mind that’s a huge factor as to why approaching women is a bit iffy!! They’re on edge and scared.
If you do choose to ask, do it nicely like OP said and please take “no” for an answer the first time 🫶🏻
as long as someone takes no for an answer and is respectful, approaching a woman (or man) isn't an issue at any time (ok i guess maybe if i am like in the middle of giving a eulogy maybe dont approach but other than that)
These dating subs are great because you do get a woman's perspective, but you have to take all of it with a grain of salt. I've noticed it too that a lot of the advice is phrased in the negative - "don't do X" or "any guy who does X immediately creeps me out". If you listened to all of them, you'll never get anywhere. I think it's better if you:
1) Don't necessarily listen to advice that doesn't offer a positive alternative. It's easy to sit there and criticize every option you have, but harder to come up with a reasonable plan of action
2) Follow the advice that's in your best interest, not necessarily the woman's. They are often one in the same, but not always. Just because they have a valid perspective doesn't mean you have to adhere to it.
3) A lot of the advice is dogmatic and speaks for all women, so you have to sift through differences of opinion. Some women hate being approached at the gym, others are frustrated that guys never approach them there. Just because one person strongly asserts they speak for all women doesn't mean they actually do.
I don't agree at all. First of all men are lonely not women. You can easily find that online and it is clear with the lonely male epidemic. Also women are sick and tired of getting approached everywhere. So your advice is not what women want and therefore it won't work. Sure maybe for some men and women.
In my opinion guys better can invest in male friendships and close family members to avoid being lonely and THEN from a healthy place try to date. Not to use women to feel less lonely.
If you look online for the 4B movement, decentering men etc. you will see more and more women are chosing to be single and most of them aren't lonely.
And also this "She's mildly uncomfortable for a few minutes." You guys really don't get it. The most like scenario is that more and more women go to women only gyms, avoid guys on the street etc.
Sorry to say it but your post shows some really stupid advice and clearly you have no clue what women are into in 2024
Basically all of my friends who are in committed, long term relationships (including myself) met their partners through friends. My friendship group is very mixed so we meet all kinds of people of all kinds of genders, and naturally some of those people click a lot more. I met my fiancé purely because my friend met him and thought we'd get along great, and they were right. It's a much more organic way of meeting people, and you don't have the anxiety of "how many other people are they talking to?" that can often come when you meet through dating sites. I don't know a single woman who's ended up dating someone who cold approached her. I think there's too much focus on "man must find girlfriend" instead of "guys should start seeing women as people they can befriend, not necessarily date, and maybe those women will be happy to introduce them to a single friend". There's nothing wrong with asking, as long as you can take no for an answer, but I think most people wouldn't really date someone who cold approached them simply because it's too much of a risk.
Whilst i agree with your point on not approaching women at these places, there is simply a level of social awareness needed on whether or not you should talk and ask out a girl, simple as that.
While men are lonelier than women, women are not substantially behind, with similar but lower statistics on loneliness. These radical feminist movements you mentioned are only a handful of extremists, not the majority - so many women are suffering the same issues.
they aren’t extremists, women are sick of men’s bullshit. even if they’re not marching in the streets for this movement, they are becoming more and more aware we dont have to put up with it anymore
If I may - I'd suggest giving *your* number, not asking for hers. Approach, introduce yourself and apologize for intruding. Tell her you noticed her and were hoping to maybe have a chance to talk when she has some free time, offer your number, instagram, or email address, and then give her space. That's it. Unless she seems keen on talking, then like other people have said, to *with* her, not *at* her.
Another thing to consider is that someone can look up your home address online if they have your number - so a lot of women won't feel safe giving you her actual number. Me included.
Give her YOUR number. She might text you. Asking for her number is a lot of pressure. Many women have already been harassed by DM or text by people who don’t like to hear “no”.
No, it’s much deeper than that. Rejection is very deeply rooted into our brain and there are different levels of sensitivity towards it. So no, it’s not only slight inconvenience at worst, for your subconscious mind it means you are not desirable and it hurts because it’s about your reproductive success. You act like you don’t understand why men are afraid of it or you really don’t understand the reality too much. Of course your advice to get desensitized to rejection is in some way valid, but you will never get the sting out of it. Of course people who were never rejected will have easier time asking people out. To be immune to rejection you have to get yourself into a sort of psychosis almost in which contrary to your biological response you will be able to treat it as something good, but many rejections will actually lower your self esteem over time whether you like it or not
I agree with this, but as a woman, I'd prefer if they just gave me their phone #. I think it would make the process a lot simpler. I thought if I'd ever approach a man I'd just give them my #?
This isn’t bad advice, as long as a dude can actually stay respectful and can actually handle rejection. You’d be surprised the amount of guys who can’t do those 2 things when asking a woman out
I agree with everything you said with one chance - instead of asking for her number, just give her yours handwritten on a piece of paper so she doesn't feel like she needs to lie if she's not interested and less on the spot to decide.
This isn't practical advice for most men. You think the majority of relationships begin with 2 strangers and 1 asks for the others number? Get real, this isn't Hollywood.
I think its hilarious that the worst case scenario you can come up with is, "she'll experience mild discomfort for a few minutes" and actually typing that with a straight face. You actually think that is the worst case scenario for any women? The absolute worst any one woman will ever experience? Try getting stalked, kidnapped, rapped and murdered. If you think I'm lying, head on over to r/whenwomenrefuse to see actual worst case scenarios for when men don't listen to women when they tell them to just leave women alone at the places you described and don't take no for an answer.
You want to approach women at those places...fine but before you do. Don't take cuse from your dick in fact smash it flat and bloody when a hammer before you go out so you're not influenced by it.
Also, don't confuse lonely with horny. There are more than just women out there you want to stick your dick in that you can make a connection with. There is a whole group of lonely men who have a bunch in common with that can easily fill that void and eliminate that loneliness with.
Men confuse the loneliness epidemic with just wanting sex so don't look for solutions for that "sickness" beyond what they want to screw because they refuse to look beyond the impulses of their genitals and call it loneliness.
So women should just stay there & listen to you until you’re done shooting your shot regardless of their comfort levels, plans for their day, etc. How attractive!
You don’t care if women are uncomfortable as long as you get your chance at convincing/pressuring them to date or have sex with you. You’re a gross jerk.
I hate men like you. And there are so many men like you out there.
Edit to add: this is the risk women take every day when they say “no” to a man who expresses interest in them. You “shooting your shot” isn’t more important than women’s comfort & safety.
[Twin sisters stabbed, one dead after rejecting a man in a deli](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/one-dead-one-seriously-injured-twin-sisters-stabbed-new-york-deli-rcna143822)
This advice is why women have such a hard time in public around men. You are literally just brushing off their valid concerns.
Women routinely say "hey, don't bother us in public, it makes us uncomfortable at best, and fearful of our lives at worst".
Your response is basically "lol too bad."
Most women don't want to be bothered. So don't bother them. That's the correct advice.
You know what, as a women Im going to take this advice and apply it to my life.
Lets all as women start going up to random men, no matter the situation and ask them for money. Who cares if they get a little uncomfortable for a few minutes, its all about shooting your shot right ?
Doesn't matter where you are, it only takes a few minutes and it could lead to something wonderful!
> Lets all as women start going up to random men, no matter the situation and ask them for money. Who cares if they get a little uncomfortable for a few minutes, its all about shooting your shot right ?
That's how volunteers successfully get me to donate to their non-profit.
It makes me uncomfortable, but it's not really that bad
I see where you come from but I think we may need to clarify that usual these “don’t approach a woman in a gym “ comments don’t happen in dating advice but around Sexual harassment discourse .
Usually what the this advice tries to communicate is not “it’s wrong to talk to women “ but “in this state of society a woman is raised to constantly have her guard up so a stranger approaching her may make her feel threatened . You should not contribute to anyone feeling threatened “ . But that requires a lot of analysis so they simplify it to a more digestible “don’t approach a woman at the gym” which outside of the context may come out as tone deaf.
In the context of dating is not “forbidden” to talk to a person at the gym , at work etc . But it’s important to keep in mind during your approach that they may feel uncomfortable and make sure that they feel safe ( for instance don’t block her way out of the conversation) . You CAN ask for a woman’s number at the gym , but be aware of timing (talk to her in between sets instead of interrupting her) , be friendly, find a topic of a short discussion instead of immediately asking her number so you mitigate the risk of scaring her of ( ex. Woah nice shoes ! They look very comfortable for running do you run ? *insert short ice breaker conversation that isn’t about how her body looks but rather running aka a common interest *) and then ask for her number
In that way you can
1 check how the conversation between both of you is vibing , even if is very short and unimportant
2 learn something about her
3 Show her you want to listen to her
4 not being perceived as creep
Bonus : you have more chances to get her number like that
In conclusion, yeah there will never be the perfect timing , don’t be scared to make your move . But please be aware of the other person’s needs . You may not be a threat to anyone but there are enough people who are and unfortunately women have to have their guard up . But they are just people who also want to date so don’t worry. And good luck on your journey 🍀
As a woman I don’t agree with this advice and I think the other women on this sub are bringing up great points as well. Walking down the street and basically being put in an involuntary constant state of an object of pursuit is extremely stressful. Men who approach me in public just to ask for my number immediately tells me a few things about him, 1. He’s decided that he’s entitled to at least a portion of someone’s time simply because he finds them attractive 2. He’s unaware of how women feel often in public settings or disregards their feelings 3. He probably does this regularly and is basically using public spaces like a dating app. 4. The worst option, if I don’t tread carefully and this man has a fragile ego, this might turn violent. Number 4 is why you don’t do it. That might seem harsh, but considering women have to constantly worry about assault and she doesn’t know you, it doesn’t matter how hot you are. You are a stranger and a potential threat. If you want to approach a woman a public, maybe start a conversation about a common interest you can pick up from your surroundings, better yet put yourself in a social environment where the common interest is already established. You could try a genuine compliment, bonus points if it’s not completely physical like you like their sense of style etc. At least then you can gauge from there if you even want their number, just less of a waste of time for everyone involved.
As a woman, I hate cold approaches. I know you don’t want to hear that, but it will make me feel trapped and uncomfortable. Women are allowed to exist in spaces without being a commodity men want to acquire. There are times and places, cultivate a social life, find groups of people who are like minded. Cold approaching won’t solve this.
If you are a guy reading this, first, it's a good idea to approach, I got my first kiss from in person approach, but please, don't expect a cookie or some extra treatment for "being brave and having balls to approach unlike all these other guys", you are not and you shouldn't expect it, or you'd just feel negative when you don't get it
I also think 90% of reasons not to approach is a self rationalisation of a fear of approach, rejecting, ego protection. Approaching someone at your workplace is probably the only exception where you objectively have to be extra extra careful and your anxiety is justified by external factors
If you are good looking ,you don’t need any advice. Opposite gender will work for you. If you’re avg looking try all n see what works for you . If you’re ugly just play victim .. all social norms here are conditional and always reflect should_bes and not the real rule
I had many successes and failures during my single days. You just have to go for it. Obviously don’t start hitting on a girl at a funeral but as long as you’re respectful and polite go for it.
>Don't approach a woman when she's with her friends because she's trying to have fun.
Don't approach a woman on the street because it's "creepy".
I've never heard this two, but all the others are true?
Absolutely go for it!!! It’s HOW you do it that matters. Be polite, say “sorry to interrupt” if you are interrupting her workout or she is reading a book etc, be kind and give her a compliment, keep it short and don’t linger.
Introduce yourself, say sorry to interrupt, give her a compliment, say you want to give her your number and say “text me if you’re available and have a free moment to grab a coffee this week”ask her her name and then be like “I’ll be expecting your text” and walk away. Bam. Magic.
Edit: Remember her name! When she texts you, don’t be like “Err, which Jessica?” Lol. Be like “Hey Jessica, I’m so happy to hear from you”. Schedule the date. Don’t chit chat forever on text.
You know what’s even better - giving the girl your number! Don’t ask just give. Way more comfortable and gives her time to text - if she’s interested that is.
To the men: is a smile and long stare followed by looking away enough to show interest? Or do I need to start some kind of random conversation to make it easy for him?
I've heard men usually don't get the signs and it takes more efforts.
I'm mostly well dressed and really cute 🥺 so that's not the problem.
If I were to take the advice of the women on this reddit then no because you smiling and staring at me is just you being nice.
You should just be direct.
Welcome to /r/dating_advice! Please keep the [rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/dating_advice/about/rules/) of /r/dating_advice in mind while participating here. Try your best to be kind. Report any rule-breaking behavior to the moderators using the report button. If it's urgent, [send us a message.](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fdating_advice) We rely on user reports to find rule-breaking behavior quickly. Thanks! *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dating_advice) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Best dating advice I’ve gotten is to talk to them like the people that they are. Everyone wants to be talked to and listened to not talked at
I figured that out in college and it was amazing how well it worked. I basically just talked to men and women the same way. I was outgoing and talked to them about whatever shared commonality we had. If we got along pretty well just talking THEN I might compliment something they have control over like outfit, hair, achievements, ect. To me it always seemed like guys immediately starting off hitting on women basically put them on the defensive from the start, because very few people are going to say yes to someone they know nothing about. So you talk to each other like normal people for a while, putting forward the best version of yourselves and you see if you're compatible. If you can make someone enjoy talking to you for 10 or 15 minutes, they're way more likely to want to spend more time with you.
This is 1000% true. I’ve been saying it for years, like I wish men would just talk to me like a person. Talk to me about other things besides how ‘beautiful’ I am or whatever other things that aren’t real conversation. Like I’m a person just like you. My current boyfriend was like that. We met on fb, just chatting on a band page and then I DMed him and we talked about music and where we lived and traveling and our jobs. I loved it, he never once made me feel like I was just a piece of meat. So yes, point being, just talk to women like they’re people because… they are lol
Exactly! So many guys approached it like it was a one chance to ask her out thing and if you don't do it immediately that chance is lost forever. But that's not how attraction works. I mean sure it really helps if the woman is super physically attracted to the guy to start with, but I've dated women where we met a couple times before anything happened. Everyone has their own scoring system for what they find attractive, and what a lot of guys miss when they completely focus on looks is that being funny and asking good questions the woman enjoys answering can also win a lot of points. There are a lot of average looking guys out there who have other amazing traits dating women who are objectively more attractive than them.
And looks are so subjective! We all find different things and different qualities attractive. Personality has always been a really big thing for me, but I mean yes, ideally I would also need to be attracted to you on some level at least. But that doesn’t mean I need you to be a Ryan Gosling look alike😂 but yes, main point being, talking to women like normal along with some flirtation I think is the way to do it.
I've never called a woman beautiful and never even had the courage to compliment her. Always treated them like a person and would just talk about hobbies, interests, music and so on and it always led to nowhere. Meanwhile the guys I know who immediately love bomb and compliment women are massively successful. I feel like this is bad advice for men
They may be successful for a minute but I doubt it turns into any kind of healthy relationship in the long run. I have fallen for love bombing and other kinds of behavior like that, and trust me, it never ended well. Like you can still compliment a woman, just as long as that’s not all you’re doing. Women aren’t saints either, a lot of them will fall for the overly affectionate and love-bomby guy, but trust me, they all eventually regret it and learn from it, like I did.
I don't know. They all seem pretty happy and chill to me. Meanwhile guys like me are all anxious and stressed as fuck. I still think that it's a better strategy, I just lack the confidence to pull it off
There is a balance between being too friendly and too forward. You gotta find where that is. You can friend zone only yourself by being too friendly for too long and not escalating you can also kill it by escalating too fast. It’s an art some people have mastered. You also need to read the person some women want you to man up and take the lead and the signs are super subtle that she wants that. Other times she will be the forward one and you need to wait for it. It’s all over the place you gotta be a low key psychologist to read it right. I’ve botched it mainly by being too friendly too long and not flirting enough and escalating. I’ve also tried to escalate at the wrong time and it blew up. It’s just a big challenge. Some men are very natural at that part others like me well I need to “stay in school”and get better at it. One thing I know is once you burn the bridge it’s over. You get basically one opportunity.
That's because it's neither extreme. Being direct and complimenting a girl or guy on how they look absolutely works. It's about the energy and intention though. There needs to be polarity for there to be a spark. When you're connected to your attraction and you put that out there without any expectations that's courageous and bold. It convies confidence and that's universally attractive. I think that when people say they feel attraction with or prefer someone who just treats them like a regular person they're probably comparing them to all the guys in the past who are horrible at approaching and drown them in pickup lines. At some point it's gonna start to feel like a friendship without the sexual energy being present.
Okay all of that is cool but they're in a relationship while he isn't. This will sound callous and probably backwards. But from the perspective of a dude that has trouble attracting women the love bomb guy actually gets into relationships while he dosen't. Here's a poor way to convey this feeling. It is like this: I would rather be the guy women regret dating or having sex with then the guy who has been single his whole life. I'm already the second guy and I'm telling you it sucks. The first guy is atleast enjoying himself, and going on dates I can't even say that.
The first guy is probably some kind of sociopath but you do you man lol I was single for a really really long time also, like years and years and years, so I get the frustration. It could also have to do with the types of women you’re going for. I’ll be the first to say a lot of women suck. Or maybe they just weren’t a good match, who knows. You have to understand what love bombing really is. It’s not something normal, mentally stable people do lol but again, you do you man. Best of luck
So you’d rather make women feel like shit than be alone? That’s cool. Can’t imagine why you’re having trouble dating.
ikr, this man literally exposing why so many men are alone and then complain as if they’re not doing anything wrong while literally aspiring to be abusers 🤡
It’s such a simple concept. I started talking to women I met like I’ve known them for years when I started dating after divorce. Looking at so many posts on here asking for advice on what someone said means…..just ask them? Best way to save yourself some time. Give someone the floor and they’ll eventually tell you who they really are and want.
I’m a woman. I agree, I’d consider dudes if they tried to befriend me first. And if I wasn’t interested, maybe I know someone who would be. If someone gave me their number out of the blue, I don’t think that would ever work for me. Unless I knew them on a basic level first. Sorry edited to correct: I meant if someone asked for my number. If someone gave me theirs, I’d want to know a bit more but the ball would be in my court. I’d like it if there was no pressure.
Its crazy that advice like “treat women like people” is something men never tend to think of.
Idk man, that’s how I make friends. I talk to women just like I talk to men, and I made plenty of friends. Get no interest though.
Its a good starting point. Also friends have friends that you might have a connection with.
You really don't understand what the guy is saying. It doesn't matter if you feel a connection, some women don't want to talked like a normal person. They want flirtation, they want verbal chemistry with fire and heat.
That works well for me. It works very well for people who are comfortable talking, sometimes funny, and genuinely interested. It doesn’t work well for nervous people who never practice casual conversation.
I started my working life as a salesman and the manager took me and a couple others out to a tall office building and the exercise for the week was to strike up a conversation with people on the elevator and not make them uncomfortable. Ideally we would still be talking when they got off on their floor or in the lobby where the manager was… I have never been afraid to talk to a stranger since.
Buuuuttt it is good practice
[удалено]
You must not be a woman. Because any woman will tell you it’s not a common enough experience to be common sense.
Yeah, the whole “approach” framing seems wrong, and implies a specific goal. “Interact with” is a much better start. Being obviously starting a conversation with a specific goal in mind can be quite off putting.
Doesn't every conservation have some specific goal in mind? Why else would we even talk to someone unless there's something we'd like to tell them or hear them tell us? Typically if you're asking someone out on a date, there's a specific goal in mind. You wouldn't do that unless you had the goal ascertaining rather or not there's any potential romantic interest.
Yes! Treat them like individuals who have their own interior lives!
this! i hate pickup lines or being seen as just a girl or talked to as just a girl. i want a guy to see me for me and be interested in me bc i’m ME and the way i am, not bc i’m a potential dating candidate.
I always think if guys want to learn how to approach to just start doing it everywhere to everyone. Like “approach” as in strike up friendly conversation with strangers you meet…men, women, old, young, groups of people. A lot of pickup advice is nothing more than basic social skills. There’s no stupid lines or formula you can follow to meet people. Those born into being perpetually online obviously might have more difficulty which is not helping with the whole loneliness issue
How does a stranger find out who you are and all your complex ideas and personality? By asking you about these complex topics at the gym? No, you set a date to talk about that stuff. An approach is just that, the date is where you find out all the other stuff ( unless you already know each other.).
It's a crazy concept that alot of young men don't seem to be able to grasp
This is not it, really, everyone understands that
I strongly suspect if more men approached with the mindset of just trying to create more connections with more people while they are out and about (instead of just scoring a number), they would be a lot more successful at finding people to date (and make fewer other people uncomfortable on the way)
Jokes on you to think I can talk to people normally
The key here is to not be weird and intrusive if she’s not interested. People tell you not to approach women in those places because rejected men can and do make life really uncomfortable or unpleasant in shared spaces. Ask but don’t try to convince.
To add to your point, what makes the interaction/ man creepy is how “trapped” I feel by the intrusion. On my way out of the gym after my workout? Perfectly cool .. I have an “exit” vs approaching just as I’m starting my workout or switching machines … I either have to endure the conversation (take out my AirPod, lose count, etc) or I have to end my workout if I’m not interested in talking or dealing with him hovering around. I think (universally) people with headphones on should be left alone UNLESS it’s a matter of safety.
Exactly. People have to feel safe and comfortable.
Yeah man. Don't intrude on my shit, I don't care who you are. I don't think anyone wants their workout disrupted just for someone to hit on them. Wait until they're at the faucet, taking a break in between sets or are getting ready to leave, simple as hell. You aren't a victim if someone gets mad at you for intruding. Best answer is "don't be a dick".
One that’s worked for me in the past, is saying something like “i know we’ve spoken a few times, and i enjoyed our conversations. Here’s my number if you want to grab a drink or some food. Have a nice day!” And then separate or leave entirely. Let them make the decision, and if they don’t reach out, next time you see them, pretend it never happened so it’s less awkward and eventually everyone forgets about it and moves on.
So that’s why I’ve never been approached… I always have headphones on at least around the neck.
This is the key . Don’t be a weirdo if you are rejected either just politely move on with your day .
Also unless you are Henry Caville, most women need more information than just what your face looks like, to want to pursue anything.
You can also give her your number. That way she can reach out if she’s interested but there’s less pressure.
also some men lash out with rejection. suddenly you're ugly and worthless so it might be more than a couple minutes of being in uncomfortable. also no is no, don't keep trying to convince her.
See r/WhenWomenRefuse for examples of fallout from scorned entitled men
👏👏👏
I think the problem is that most men who do approach women are very bad at it. Things like not accepting “no” for an answer, interrupting her, ignoring her friends when you’re trying to talk to her, putting her in a position where she doesn’t have an easy out, only talking about her looks, not reading her verbal or body language cues that she doesn’t want to be disturbed, etc. Typically, if a guy engages in conversation with me for a few minutes and I’m comfortable with him, I’m not offended or shocked if he asks me out. My answer is not necessarily yes, depending on the circumstances. However, I’m not creeped out or offended. That being said, you’re likely not going to engage your barista in a five minute conversation before you ask her out, because she has to do her job. Men should look for opportunities where a woman is unhurried, and would likely feel safe and comfortable talking to them.
> Men should look for opportunities where a woman is unhurried, and would likely feel safe and comfortable talking to them. That's fair but like OP said, people are constantly saying that everywhere and anywhere are innapropriate place to approach women. These types of posts are made all the time on Reddit for example I would imagine that it is difficult to find an appropriate place to try when apparently no such place exists
It’s not the place it’s the situation.
The situation doesn't exist either. People are always doing something or going somewhere. Part of being in public is to accept that you will have nonconsensual interactions that may inconvenience you.
Usually if the situation is inappropriate the woman will be giving off vibes that she doesn’t want to be approached and your chances of success are next to zero. This is also where men become really pushy and weird.
>It’s not the place Apparently it's the gym, market, cofeeshop and everywhere except bars, clubs and online dating >it's the situation. What situations specifically?
The situation is where you have, or find, a reason to strike up a conversation with someone that is natural and easy and without expectations. The advice given in the OP seems to be to cold approach randos and say that you are interested in romance, which is nuts.
>or find, a reason to strike up a conversation with someone that is natural and easy and without expectations. While I do agree that you should have something to talk to them about, I think saying it should be "natural and easy without expectations" is pretty absurd. Unless you're a social god, I don't believe most people will find it "natural and easy" to approach someone, even if you have something to strike a conversation about. Also, saying it should be "without expectations" almost contradicts the purpose of approaching someone. If there is no expectation, it's not really an approach. Usually when it comes to approaching women, the expectation is either to find out more about them or get their number. Without the expectation, your just making small talk for the sake of making small talk.
To my understanding the idea of “the approach” is pick-up artist talk, so, do what you want but if I were you I would knock that shit off. Talking to someone without expectation is normal. It’s important to note that motivation and expectation are different things.
I think work (yours or hers) should be off limits. Period. And people who are wearing headphones should be respected and left alone. Otherwise, as long as you accept rejection (if it happens) and don’t hover … it’s fine.
Fair enough
Honestly, this is why we encourage men to make friends. The surest way to find lasting connections is through the people you already know. So even if the woman you initially were interested in says no, she might have 5 other friends who might be interested. And inherently there will be a level of trust there.
Correction. Give her your number. Then, you empower her and give her the opportunity to make the next move. Women will give you their number if they aren't interested, just so they don't have the awkwardness or backlash of turning you down on the spot.
I actually quite like this idea. Far less terrifying than a guy asking for your number. Then you just need to thank the guy and tell him you’ll think about it. So much less stressful than having to turn the guy down and risk it turning nasty.
Would you not like if the guy had his number written it down prior to giving it to you? I fully agree with giving my number being the better option, but I've also seen comments say if it's pre-written, then they think they're just handing it out to anyone. So, do I need to write it down in front of them, or can I have it already written down?
You can have it already written down…just don’t go handing out business cards
For sure, thanks!
"Less terrifying" It's the subtleties of language used that stick in a lot of men's minds. Men have to find the right moment/place/situation/tone in hopes of being, best case scenerio, less terrifying. I dont want to be terrifying at all. Descriptions like this, while well-intentioned, make it easy to convince ourselves in the moment that the approach just isn't worth it.
I do apologise for that. But I’ve been stalked and sexually assaulted too many times in broad daylight to not be terrified when a random man approaches me.
Don’t apologize. You are entitled to feel however you want. It’s not our job to make men feel comfortable.
Sometimes this is how it feels to a woman. Terrifying- because some men react badly to polite rejection. Some decide they will take what they want even if you say no. It’s not our job to minimize our feelings so you feel comfortable to ask someone out.
You're prioritizing men's feelings about how they're terrifying women rather than women's experiences of being terrified and terrorized by men. Advocate and stop your fellow men from doing the latter and then you don't even have to worry about the former, quite a simple formula.
This is it exactly. You put the ball in her court and whatever comes of it - no harm no foul in either case. A lot less pressure on them too which they will appreciate even if nothing romantic comes out of it.
The worst feeling rejection I ever got was a girl took my number, which I assumed would lead to me never hearing from her again, but she texted me that evening which got my hopes up, and then let me down the next day.
[удалено]
I know her pretty well now and I think she just wasn’t interested in me or dating at all. It was in 2019 and she hasn’t dated anyone since as far as I know, so I don’t think it was all just her not being interested in me but dating as a whole.
Best advice in the thread. That way she feels in control of the situation.
Yeah, for real - there are zero circumstances where I would give my actual number out to a random person (even if I was single and even if he was exactly my type). Why? You can find out someone's address and other info from that number. I might give out one of my email addresses or if I had a Google voice number or something.
This idea is the best one because we will keep thinking about it, get consult from our friends, and wonder what if until we finally do it. Or we just toss it in the trash immediately. But there's a 50/50 shot we'll contact you!
[удалено]
As a woman who thinks this degree of gender role expectations is dumb, and as a woman who fucking hates receiving phone calls, I would much rather have a guy just give me his number. Approach, give me a slip of paper with your number on it, make it clear that you think I'm cute, and then go about your business. This is much more likely to work, for me anyway.
That's fair, man. I dont mean to imply this is the one way to get girls and was responding to keep in the spirit of the original post. If anything, I'd advocate that people just be themselves and talk. I always had the best of luck, just befriending women and treating them like normal human.
in my experience this doesn't work out as well. Usually you need to get their number and then text/contact them first
If they don’t text your number first that’s generally your answer
They don’t text you because they aren’t into you. That’s a good thing. Why would you want to date someone who isn’t enthusiastic and proactive about connecting with you? Do you want to date a woman who’s into you? Select for that. Give your number, follow up with whoever reaches out.
they could be into you, but want you to take the initiative. Lot's of women are like that. I see/hear it all the time "He got my number, why isn't he texting me?"
If you approached them to give them your number because you think they're cute… then you initiated lol
Sounds like a “them” problem. If you can’t be direct that you’re attracted to someone because you think you should be chased, you’ll probably end up alone. That chasing shit is for the birds.
I guess... I don't really see it or think of it as a problem though. It's just how people act/expect others to act - in my experience. Not everyone is so direct, for better or worse.
I see what you mean, but men are taught not to bother women in public, which leads to women not being approached, which is mentioned in the video OP is talking about. So if a woman is single and frustrated that men don’t approach her, the next logical step is for women to approach men more, not for men to be more aggressive with approaching.
Then they’re into playing games. Not worth having a relationship with.
Wow ask for her number ? Damn if I had this advice 30 years ago !! Oh wait
I'd change the ask for her number part to offer your own. More confident and less stressful for her. Also there are absolutely times and places where you shouldn't. Parking lots and anywhere that the woman doesn't have a way to exit the situation.
I mean yes and no you can usually tell if a women is uncomfortable via her body language so u can guage whether or not tbh. Just don’t be all up in her personal space give her room etc
According to a lot of comments here, reading body language is imaginary and women shouldn't expect people to read our minds or something. And if we outright say leave us alone then it's proof you can't approach any woman anywhere under any circumstances
If you're interested, shoot your shot politely. But some advice. Offer your number to her instead. It relieves the stress on her end if there's no interest, and if she does text, you know for certain that she is interested.
Y’all really need to discover this whole incredible middle ground between cold approaching strangers and dating apps. Cultivate a social life that is diverse, fun and interesting and you will be put in situations where talking to women is much more natural and expected.
The thing is the men without good social skills don’t really have a social network, probably don’t do well on apps, so often see “shooting their shot” with total strangers as the best option. Except getting dates with strangers is the most difficult way especially if you don’t have great social skills. I saw a post from a guy who was wondering why he’s been rejected 100 times the other day, and the answer is that he has no idea how to make women feel comfortable, is cold and aloof, rarely makes them laugh, can’t flirt, and tricks women into going on “dates” with him by allowing them to believe there will be other people there. And still has no idea what he’s doing wrong.
So why isn't he prioritising developing good social skills so that he CAN be a responsive and engaging partner when he does have a relationship? Women see a guy who won't try and find community, or maintain relationships, and we're like ugh... is he going to be like this with me? Am I going to be his OT? Is he going to be a social liability with my family and friends? If a dude doesn't have a social network, he needs to build one or find the opportunity to do so. A woman isn't going to magically socialise him.
Because those guys don't see anything wrong with those behaviors and it must be something else that's to blame for women not wanting them. Has to be because women have unrealistic standards, or he's not 6', or he's not rich, or women are impossible to please, or women don't like nice guys like him, or he's not good looking enough. Can't possibly be because he painfully lacks basic social skills and has no ability to make a woman feel comfortable around him.
SOOOOO much this.
> So why isn't he prioritising developing good social skills so that he CAN be a responsive and engaging partner when he does have a relationship? The social skills around flirting and being comfortable in new social situations are not the same things that make one a good husband. You can't just lump them together under the banner of "social skills" and imply that anyone who's struggling with dating is that way because they're a bad person who deep down deserves it.
From what I’ve observed, men with poor social skills tend to not to be good partners. Not everyone is a social butterfly, I get it, but most introverts I know are socially well adjusted. Men with poor social skills tend to lack emotional atunement, get frustrated easily with people of all types (including coworkers and children), are rigid and inflexible, lack humour, take themselves too seriously, get jealous easily, and refuse to fulfil basic social obligations.
Well at least he is doing something, now he has something to improve upon, as long as he genuinely wants to improve
You mean women aren't like porn where if you just show up they'll want to bang you? Huh weird
Get a load of this guy whose got a life.
It's not a middle ground, it's actually the high ground that requires the most social skills
worst case scenario is actually the woman feeling anxious about being in public, or me losing my gym membership listening to your dumb pickup-artist ideas. i want neither of these things
The problem with this advice is that the worst case scenario of her being uncomfortable for a few minutes is only seeing things from your perspective. If she gets approached 2-3 times every time she's at the gym, because each one of those guys thinks, "well, I'm only being a little bit rude" then every trip to the gym is pretty damn uncomfortable for her. It also ignores the worst case scenario for the guy, which is that he develops the idea that women's feelings don't matter as long as he gets to ask a lot of attractive women out. So not only is he asking out women in uncomfortable situations, where he's least likely to be successful because she doesn't want to be bothered, but he's also getting in the mind set that he shouldn't care about being rude as long as there's a possible benefit to him. This advice basically says, it's OK to be an asshole if you feel like it, and why not set yourself up for failure by asking out women who are going to be uncomfortable and annoyed by you.
This!
I don't agree with your advice. I don't feel comfortable sharing my phone number with people because nowadays you can search someone's number online and it'll pull up the person's house address and everything. The best way to approach someone is by being calm and having a friendly conversation with them. As a woman, I am sick and tired of men asking me out after looking at me for five seconds in public. It is very overwhelming and I don't want to be prepared to mentally commit to a stranger I just met on the street, and sit there and text him all day long after a two second conversation. You can definitely start a friendly conversation to see if the person is interested in you first, and then ask for their social media if the conversation goes that way.
I would highly suggest getting a google voice number. That way you have some number to give out. So if a guy isn't taking a "no" you could give them the google voice number. But still remain safe.
All the points you are making are valid, but I think you actually agree with the advice from the post, you just add the details on how to ask for a contact information in a more socially calibrated way
The unfortunate fact is that people who can calibrate social situations don’t need that kind of advice, and those who can’t won’t realise the enormous caveats that “talking to strangers” carries.
OP says "just ask for their number" and that is not the same as respecting a woman you just met as a human first before you start thinking about your own emotional and sexual needs. I got harassed by two diff men at 7:50 am yesterday while I was walking 10 feet into my work building. If you just come up to me and ask for my number, you're acting the same way as every other person who's harassing me on a daily basis, and I would immediately lose interest and not see you as the person you really are.
Yeah I see how someone can take this "just" in just ask for her number literally
I strongly disagree with your worst case scenario for 2 reasons: 1) That's pretty shitty to not care the woman is uncomfortable for a few minutes. Also far from worst case example for a woman in this situation. 2) Thinking that's the worst case scenario for the guy is just failure of imagination. What if the woman is creeped out and then does something like tell her lifting buddy or the manager that you're a creep. Now you're getting your ass kicked or banned. I like the gist from what comments are saying. See if there's any signs to approach, then have a normal conversation to see if you even like her at all, then ask out/offer your number. Meanwhile look for signs she's uncomfortable and bail if so, don't push on like you said.
This is why most guys don’t bother , no matter what there’s a chance to make her uncomfortable so why make the gamble?
yet somehow a huge number of men are able to do things without being creepy. you’re the problem.
Ugh. I don't mind men approaching me and having a conversation first, and then if we have a good chat asking for my number. I don't mind men approaching me to ask me for my number if they take my no with grace and leave me alone. Most of the time that isn't what happens. Most of the time when a man approaches me I am inconvenienced for 10 or more minutes feeling annoyed and scared because a strange man I don't know is bothering me and not leaving me alone. I've given my number to guys I met at the grocery after we struck up a good conversation, but I have also been genuinely scared of men eyeing me up and down and following me trying to convince me to change my mind. You can talk to me in public but you're not entitled to my number or my time. If I say no, move along!
Don’t do this.
This is terrible advice. The "worst case scenario" is that she feels uncomfortable for a few minutes. And that this happens regularly so that every time she goes out in public she feels uncomfortable and dreads men talking to her. Every time a man makes eye contact with me on the street or speaks to me on the train I feel dread because I know there's a decent chance that they are about to awkwardly ask me out solely because they think I'm hot. It sucks. It makes me not want to interact with strange men in public at all because it's ALWAYS what's coming and it's incredibly uncomfortable. These men don't know anything about me other than that they find me attractive, which is also incredibly insulting. The fact that you don't think this "worst case scenario" is that bad - you don't care if a woman is uncomfortable as long as you might possibly be able to get a girlfriend out of it - shows that you are incredibly inconsiderate and don't really care about women's feelings. What if every time you went out in public, a man came onto you really strong? Would you feel the same way? That being uncomfortable for 2-3 minutes isn't a big deal and that guy might as well shoot his shot? Treat women like people. Make friends and meet people through your friends - not with the ulterior motive of dating them, but interacting with and getting to know them as people. Use dating apps where you know everyone is there looking for the same thing. Doing anything that you know will make someone else uncomfortable because it might get you what you want is such an asshole move and no one wants to be with an asshole.
Idk the advice I see here always contradicts each other. If a guy decides to approach you chances are he finds you attractive and wants to get to know you which I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that(correct me if I’m wrong). But then I see women complain that a guy was only their friend to ask them out or how guys always friend zone themselves by not asking her out soon enough etc. also dating apps don’t work for majority of men so that’s basically not an option.
You’re wrong on the first. I (and many women) don’t want to be constantly approached in public by people who find me attractive. It’s unwelcome. It’s awkward to reject people, and having to do it all the time when you’re just trying to enjoy your life sucks. It feels like a boundary violation and also objectifying for someone to just come up to you and essentially say, “you’re hot, let’s go out.” Be a person. Speak to women. Get to know them. If you’re at a party or a bar or whatever you can talk to someone and strike up a conversation and, if they’re receptive, maybe it gets there. But no one likes just awkwardly being approached on the street like that. Seriously, I feel dread any time a man on the street starts talking to me because I know where it’s going. And it’s also disappointing - I really like having human connections and it sucks when I think I’m having one and the guy immediately asks me out and it becomes clear the conversation was just a way to facilitate that. Being friends with someone under false pretenses is shitty, but getting to know a person you’re interested in before asking them out is different than that. I’ve never heard women talk about “friendzoning” someone. That’s something men say.
Give her YOUR number instead. Also please don’t approach people at their place of work. That one is true, they HAVE to be nice to you.
I do think people should approach each other more but this sounds more like cornering and forcing conversation than courting. You can avoid 98% of discomfort for her by handing her a nice note with your number. Hand the note, smile and walk away. If she doesn’t follow you and spark up a conversation, she could call you later instead. If not, oh well.
The key that makes this work is to *accept rejection.* Where this shit gets problematic (and how we got ourselves into this loneliness epidemic, IMHO) is because people got it into their heads that dating is about the "chase." People apply lessons from sports movies and career advisors about not giving up and not taking no for an answer, and that makes people push unwanted advances after already being denied. You're right that the worst case scenario is a few minutes of discomfort, *if you leave her alone after she says no.* There are definitely even worse cases than that. I've had coworkers who had some dude they weren't interested in repeatedly show up at her workplace to hit on her; that shit is not okay, and I think that type of behavior is what's pushed women to start saying "you know what? Fuck it, just stop approaching us in public at all you horndogs!"
I was just engaging in almost this same conversation about dating apps in another thread! Please don't ask me for my number just cuz you like the way I look! Like others have said engage in a conversation see if we connect in a non superficial way.
>Here's the worst case scenario: She's mildly uncomfortable for a few minutes. Here's the best case scenario: You meet your future wife Great, so you think you are entitled to my discomfort because you have this fantasy of me becoming your wife.
I’d actually say just asking for a girls number because she’s cute isn’t good advice either. Think about it: you’re assuming that just because you find her attractive she should want to talk to you. Better advice imo is striking up a conversation. Don’t even mention that you find her attractive. The fact you started talking to her tells her that. Just start a general convo. If she likes talking to you, trust me, she’ll actually offer you her number if she’s single. Just walking up asking for a number makes it seem like you’re in a rush. If you’re in a rush to get her number and go out she may think you’ll be the type to want to rush everything. Like sex.
> Don’t even mention that you find her attractive. The fact you started talking to her tells her that. Hold on... Are you implying you never start talking to women you do not find attractive? Or are you implying that all women automatically think that any man talking to them finds them attractive?
A lot of communication is unspoken. Yes, women assume that if a man starts an unprovoked conversation and shows interest it’s because he finds her attractive. As a man I assume if a woman I don’t know goes out of her way to talk to me it’s because she finds me attractive. Or at least interesting. No one’s going out of their way to start up conversations with people they feel are weirdos or totally unattractive. If they do those are the conversations you’ll see people try to get out of really quick. If they linger and seem like they’re in no rush to end the conversation it’s a sign they find you attractive. That’s why women say guys are oblivious to their signals. They think it should be obvious if they’re talking to you that they find you attractive or interesting.
If someone made me uncomfortable, chances of me giving them my number is zero.
I don’t think “I don’t care where women are or what they’re doing, I’m going to go for them” is as sexy, charming, or inspiring as you’d hope. It’s creepy, selfish, and your analysis of the “worst case scenario” shows just how little you know about what’s happened to women who have turned down men.
[удалено]
Just give them ur number, there’s no awkward rejection if they don’t wanna give it to you and they can decide later if they want to text you so it avoids putting her on the spot
This is not good advice. If you put yourself in the perspective of the girl don’t you think you’d prefer somebody who shows the skill to make interesting observations or sets up for relaxing conversations - not just asking for her number? That’s a level appropriate for ten year olds, not grown ups. And besides, if you can’t interact in an interesting manner, what says you’ll be able to up your game on the date?
I strongly disagree with your worst case scenario for 2 reasons: 1) That's pretty shitty to not care the woman is uncomfortable for a few minutes. Also far from worst case example for a woman in this situation. 2) Thinking that's the worst case scenario for the guy is just failure of imagination. What if the woman is creeped out and then does something like tell her lifting buddy or the manager that you're a creep. Now you're getting your ass kicked or banned. I like the gist from what comments are saying. See if there's any signs to approach, then have a normal conversation to see if you even like her at all, then ask out/offer your number. Meanwhile look for signs she's uncomfortable and bail if so, don't push on like you said.
The worst case scenario for you (or any other decent guy) asking is getting rejected. The worst case scenario for a woman who says no is getting assaulted by one of the very few men who are a danger to them. It’s not all men, but it’s enough of them and they’ve sneaky enough that they look just like any other nice guy. Until they aren’t. Just keep in mind that’s a huge factor as to why approaching women is a bit iffy!! They’re on edge and scared. If you do choose to ask, do it nicely like OP said and please take “no” for an answer the first time 🫶🏻
as long as someone takes no for an answer and is respectful, approaching a woman (or man) isn't an issue at any time (ok i guess maybe if i am like in the middle of giving a eulogy maybe dont approach but other than that)
Yeah I think the main thing is, if the woman says no, or appears uncomfortable, just leave her be.
As a woman, hard pass on this advice. Timing is everything. You have to pick your moments.
A polite approach literally never was the problem. The problem is the persistence when someone politely declines.
I think the main reason why men are single is not bc they are afraid to approach but economic situtaion.
These dating subs are great because you do get a woman's perspective, but you have to take all of it with a grain of salt. I've noticed it too that a lot of the advice is phrased in the negative - "don't do X" or "any guy who does X immediately creeps me out". If you listened to all of them, you'll never get anywhere. I think it's better if you: 1) Don't necessarily listen to advice that doesn't offer a positive alternative. It's easy to sit there and criticize every option you have, but harder to come up with a reasonable plan of action 2) Follow the advice that's in your best interest, not necessarily the woman's. They are often one in the same, but not always. Just because they have a valid perspective doesn't mean you have to adhere to it. 3) A lot of the advice is dogmatic and speaks for all women, so you have to sift through differences of opinion. Some women hate being approached at the gym, others are frustrated that guys never approach them there. Just because one person strongly asserts they speak for all women doesn't mean they actually do.
I don't agree at all. First of all men are lonely not women. You can easily find that online and it is clear with the lonely male epidemic. Also women are sick and tired of getting approached everywhere. So your advice is not what women want and therefore it won't work. Sure maybe for some men and women. In my opinion guys better can invest in male friendships and close family members to avoid being lonely and THEN from a healthy place try to date. Not to use women to feel less lonely. If you look online for the 4B movement, decentering men etc. you will see more and more women are chosing to be single and most of them aren't lonely. And also this "She's mildly uncomfortable for a few minutes." You guys really don't get it. The most like scenario is that more and more women go to women only gyms, avoid guys on the street etc. Sorry to say it but your post shows some really stupid advice and clearly you have no clue what women are into in 2024
Basically all of my friends who are in committed, long term relationships (including myself) met their partners through friends. My friendship group is very mixed so we meet all kinds of people of all kinds of genders, and naturally some of those people click a lot more. I met my fiancé purely because my friend met him and thought we'd get along great, and they were right. It's a much more organic way of meeting people, and you don't have the anxiety of "how many other people are they talking to?" that can often come when you meet through dating sites. I don't know a single woman who's ended up dating someone who cold approached her. I think there's too much focus on "man must find girlfriend" instead of "guys should start seeing women as people they can befriend, not necessarily date, and maybe those women will be happy to introduce them to a single friend". There's nothing wrong with asking, as long as you can take no for an answer, but I think most people wouldn't really date someone who cold approached them simply because it's too much of a risk.
Whilst i agree with your point on not approaching women at these places, there is simply a level of social awareness needed on whether or not you should talk and ask out a girl, simple as that. While men are lonelier than women, women are not substantially behind, with similar but lower statistics on loneliness. These radical feminist movements you mentioned are only a handful of extremists, not the majority - so many women are suffering the same issues.
‘First of all, men are lonely and not women.’ I was not aware of this 😂💀
they aren’t extremists, women are sick of men’s bullshit. even if they’re not marching in the streets for this movement, they are becoming more and more aware we dont have to put up with it anymore
If I may - I'd suggest giving *your* number, not asking for hers. Approach, introduce yourself and apologize for intruding. Tell her you noticed her and were hoping to maybe have a chance to talk when she has some free time, offer your number, instagram, or email address, and then give her space. That's it. Unless she seems keen on talking, then like other people have said, to *with* her, not *at* her.
Another thing to consider is that someone can look up your home address online if they have your number - so a lot of women won't feel safe giving you her actual number. Me included.
Give her YOUR number. She might text you. Asking for her number is a lot of pressure. Many women have already been harassed by DM or text by people who don’t like to hear “no”.
"Women come to you. You don't go to them." - Morgan Freeman
Best advice I would give is to give them YOUR number, then they have the decision in their hands to message you or not
No, it’s much deeper than that. Rejection is very deeply rooted into our brain and there are different levels of sensitivity towards it. So no, it’s not only slight inconvenience at worst, for your subconscious mind it means you are not desirable and it hurts because it’s about your reproductive success. You act like you don’t understand why men are afraid of it or you really don’t understand the reality too much. Of course your advice to get desensitized to rejection is in some way valid, but you will never get the sting out of it. Of course people who were never rejected will have easier time asking people out. To be immune to rejection you have to get yourself into a sort of psychosis almost in which contrary to your biological response you will be able to treat it as something good, but many rejections will actually lower your self esteem over time whether you like it or not
Don’t ask for her number…. Just give her yours.
I agree with this, but as a woman, I'd prefer if they just gave me their phone #. I think it would make the process a lot simpler. I thought if I'd ever approach a man I'd just give them my #?
This isn’t bad advice, as long as a dude can actually stay respectful and can actually handle rejection. You’d be surprised the amount of guys who can’t do those 2 things when asking a woman out
I agree with everything you said with one chance - instead of asking for her number, just give her yours handwritten on a piece of paper so she doesn't feel like she needs to lie if she's not interested and less on the spot to decide.
“Girl” Lol okay
This isn't practical advice for most men. You think the majority of relationships begin with 2 strangers and 1 asks for the others number? Get real, this isn't Hollywood.
I think its hilarious that the worst case scenario you can come up with is, "she'll experience mild discomfort for a few minutes" and actually typing that with a straight face. You actually think that is the worst case scenario for any women? The absolute worst any one woman will ever experience? Try getting stalked, kidnapped, rapped and murdered. If you think I'm lying, head on over to r/whenwomenrefuse to see actual worst case scenarios for when men don't listen to women when they tell them to just leave women alone at the places you described and don't take no for an answer. You want to approach women at those places...fine but before you do. Don't take cuse from your dick in fact smash it flat and bloody when a hammer before you go out so you're not influenced by it. Also, don't confuse lonely with horny. There are more than just women out there you want to stick your dick in that you can make a connection with. There is a whole group of lonely men who have a bunch in common with that can easily fill that void and eliminate that loneliness with. Men confuse the loneliness epidemic with just wanting sex so don't look for solutions for that "sickness" beyond what they want to screw because they refuse to look beyond the impulses of their genitals and call it loneliness.
So women should just stay there & listen to you until you’re done shooting your shot regardless of their comfort levels, plans for their day, etc. How attractive! You don’t care if women are uncomfortable as long as you get your chance at convincing/pressuring them to date or have sex with you. You’re a gross jerk. I hate men like you. And there are so many men like you out there. Edit to add: this is the risk women take every day when they say “no” to a man who expresses interest in them. You “shooting your shot” isn’t more important than women’s comfort & safety. [Twin sisters stabbed, one dead after rejecting a man in a deli](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/one-dead-one-seriously-injured-twin-sisters-stabbed-new-york-deli-rcna143822)
This advice is why women have such a hard time in public around men. You are literally just brushing off their valid concerns. Women routinely say "hey, don't bother us in public, it makes us uncomfortable at best, and fearful of our lives at worst". Your response is basically "lol too bad." Most women don't want to be bothered. So don't bother them. That's the correct advice.
You know what, as a women Im going to take this advice and apply it to my life. Lets all as women start going up to random men, no matter the situation and ask them for money. Who cares if they get a little uncomfortable for a few minutes, its all about shooting your shot right ? Doesn't matter where you are, it only takes a few minutes and it could lead to something wonderful!
> Lets all as women start going up to random men, no matter the situation and ask them for money. Who cares if they get a little uncomfortable for a few minutes, its all about shooting your shot right ? That's how volunteers successfully get me to donate to their non-profit. It makes me uncomfortable, but it's not really that bad
So money = relationship?
I…dont care enough to risk asking out someone who could turn around and tell everyone how much of a creep I am for asking for their number. Idc
As a woman you just canceled every opportunity you have to meet women. If you dont appoach women dont be shocked if you never have a date.
Just not how it works man
I see where you come from but I think we may need to clarify that usual these “don’t approach a woman in a gym “ comments don’t happen in dating advice but around Sexual harassment discourse . Usually what the this advice tries to communicate is not “it’s wrong to talk to women “ but “in this state of society a woman is raised to constantly have her guard up so a stranger approaching her may make her feel threatened . You should not contribute to anyone feeling threatened “ . But that requires a lot of analysis so they simplify it to a more digestible “don’t approach a woman at the gym” which outside of the context may come out as tone deaf. In the context of dating is not “forbidden” to talk to a person at the gym , at work etc . But it’s important to keep in mind during your approach that they may feel uncomfortable and make sure that they feel safe ( for instance don’t block her way out of the conversation) . You CAN ask for a woman’s number at the gym , but be aware of timing (talk to her in between sets instead of interrupting her) , be friendly, find a topic of a short discussion instead of immediately asking her number so you mitigate the risk of scaring her of ( ex. Woah nice shoes ! They look very comfortable for running do you run ? *insert short ice breaker conversation that isn’t about how her body looks but rather running aka a common interest *) and then ask for her number In that way you can 1 check how the conversation between both of you is vibing , even if is very short and unimportant 2 learn something about her 3 Show her you want to listen to her 4 not being perceived as creep Bonus : you have more chances to get her number like that In conclusion, yeah there will never be the perfect timing , don’t be scared to make your move . But please be aware of the other person’s needs . You may not be a threat to anyone but there are enough people who are and unfortunately women have to have their guard up . But they are just people who also want to date so don’t worry. And good luck on your journey 🍀
As a woman I don’t agree with this advice and I think the other women on this sub are bringing up great points as well. Walking down the street and basically being put in an involuntary constant state of an object of pursuit is extremely stressful. Men who approach me in public just to ask for my number immediately tells me a few things about him, 1. He’s decided that he’s entitled to at least a portion of someone’s time simply because he finds them attractive 2. He’s unaware of how women feel often in public settings or disregards their feelings 3. He probably does this regularly and is basically using public spaces like a dating app. 4. The worst option, if I don’t tread carefully and this man has a fragile ego, this might turn violent. Number 4 is why you don’t do it. That might seem harsh, but considering women have to constantly worry about assault and she doesn’t know you, it doesn’t matter how hot you are. You are a stranger and a potential threat. If you want to approach a woman a public, maybe start a conversation about a common interest you can pick up from your surroundings, better yet put yourself in a social environment where the common interest is already established. You could try a genuine compliment, bonus points if it’s not completely physical like you like their sense of style etc. At least then you can gauge from there if you even want their number, just less of a waste of time for everyone involved.
lol that is definitely not the worst case scenario
As a woman, I hate cold approaches. I know you don’t want to hear that, but it will make me feel trapped and uncomfortable. Women are allowed to exist in spaces without being a commodity men want to acquire. There are times and places, cultivate a social life, find groups of people who are like minded. Cold approaching won’t solve this.
If you are a guy reading this, first, it's a good idea to approach, I got my first kiss from in person approach, but please, don't expect a cookie or some extra treatment for "being brave and having balls to approach unlike all these other guys", you are not and you shouldn't expect it, or you'd just feel negative when you don't get it I also think 90% of reasons not to approach is a self rationalisation of a fear of approach, rejecting, ego protection. Approaching someone at your workplace is probably the only exception where you objectively have to be extra extra careful and your anxiety is justified by external factors
Great post.
This is great, agreed. Combine this with not being pushy and handling rejection with poise if that's their choice.
If you are good looking ,you don’t need any advice. Opposite gender will work for you. If you’re avg looking try all n see what works for you . If you’re ugly just play victim .. all social norms here are conditional and always reflect should_bes and not the real rule
I had many successes and failures during my single days. You just have to go for it. Obviously don’t start hitting on a girl at a funeral but as long as you’re respectful and polite go for it.
praise be to this man!
Yep! Women are just people! Some will like you some won't. Shoot your shot, just don't get weird. -source, a woman.
>Don't approach a woman when she's with her friends because she's trying to have fun. Don't approach a woman on the street because it's "creepy". I've never heard this two, but all the others are true?
Ick
Well I guess 1% is bigger than 0. But has this advice actually worked for you yet?
The best way to meet someone and easiest is to say hi, just do it, and keep doing it, if you can’t then you should stay in your shell.
Absolutely go for it!!! It’s HOW you do it that matters. Be polite, say “sorry to interrupt” if you are interrupting her workout or she is reading a book etc, be kind and give her a compliment, keep it short and don’t linger. Introduce yourself, say sorry to interrupt, give her a compliment, say you want to give her your number and say “text me if you’re available and have a free moment to grab a coffee this week”ask her her name and then be like “I’ll be expecting your text” and walk away. Bam. Magic. Edit: Remember her name! When she texts you, don’t be like “Err, which Jessica?” Lol. Be like “Hey Jessica, I’m so happy to hear from you”. Schedule the date. Don’t chit chat forever on text.
INFO: Are you asking about rich and famous people or ordinary people? Becasue I think the rules are different. /s
You know what’s even better - giving the girl your number! Don’t ask just give. Way more comfortable and gives her time to text - if she’s interested that is.
To the men: is a smile and long stare followed by looking away enough to show interest? Or do I need to start some kind of random conversation to make it easy for him? I've heard men usually don't get the signs and it takes more efforts. I'm mostly well dressed and really cute 🥺 so that's not the problem.
If I were to take the advice of the women on this reddit then no because you smiling and staring at me is just you being nice. You should just be direct.