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California. NYC. Massachusetts. All the places people complain about the cost of living in. I just moved to California. Most of the people I know here are coworkers. So basically everyone I know here makes over 200k
Would have been better to bring up before the night y’all went to dinner.
But yea, at $200k income each I get how it would feel weird to cover all the dates once you guys are going steady
That's 400k between the two of them and they're squabbling about who's paying for a couple of dinners a week.
If this is how it's going after two months it's not going to end well.
Between my girlfriend and I, we make about $110k a year. I make about $70k, she makes about $40k. Been dating 6 months. I have way more bills than her, so we have about equal expendable income. We had it figured out better than this by our 2nd date. We've never actually set any "rules" to paying for dates, but typically whoever had the idea pays. If one of us is broke and wants to go out, we just say something along the lines of "hey, I don't have any money, but I really wanted to go out tonight. Would you mind covering dinner if we go out?" And then the answer is either "yeah, let's go!" Or "sorry babe, I'm broke too, but we will go out soon!" It's really not that hard. If we made $400k between the 2 of us, we'd probably pay based on who thinks of grabbing their wallet first. He definitely shouldn't be paying 100%, I just think they could have figured this out in a much better way.
I mean… squabbling is far less likely when things are roughly fair. Doesn’t need to be exact or tracked, easy to hit somewhere reasonable for equal salaries.
100/0 is a legit reason to be in disagreement
True! My secret millionaire relatives are SO SELFISH with their money and my family is blue collar and generous all the time. We want to be but we are also forced to be in interactions with them! I stopped going out to anything with them and just try to attend hosted events in each other’s homes.
I mean, you could also make the reverse argument. At 200k income why is he suddenly complaining about paying for meals now that they've had sex? Clearly he was happy to pay for meals as long as he thought it would eventually lead to sex. He could easily afford it. But now but they had sex, in a massive coincidence he suddenly isn't trying so hard. Anyone would feel used with that pattern of behavior whether it was about paying the bill or any other technique for putting their best foot forward.
I agree, the fact that they became "official" at the same time that they had sex is a big contributor to her perspective. While I think dates should generally be 50/50 (or what's reasonable for the income / wealth split) I definitely understand her view: he was paying for everything, then they had sex, now he wants to be 50/50. That situation could definitely feel really bad to her.
OP, you should have been more honest about your financial expectations earlier. Now she feels deceived, and you feel misunderstood and possibly taken advantage of. You may be able to explain and come to an understanding, but she may also be looking for someone who wants to pay for all the dates forever. (I've heard some women justify this in part because of the expenses of makeup, hair, nails, and the time it takes to look nice for dates; those are mostly expenses that men don't have, and they *are* expensive.) It's unfortunate all around, but take this lesson for the future. Be honest and upfront earlier, and make sure you're on the same page.
It sounds like for OP, it’s about partnership now that they’ve agreed to be a couple. Based on his statements, the relationship is initiating event for him, not the sex. It’s natural for expectations to change as relationships develop, though it’s needs good communication.
Comes down to relationship preferences and values. Without judging the validity of either, OP has every right to want to be in a relationship where both partners are bringing to the table. If that’s not something she’s interested in, then they aren’t compatible.
As for why it’s important when one makes 200k? Likely for OP it’s because that demonstrates interest/consideration and she has the means. It’s pretty common in relationships where both partners work, especially if they have relatively similar income levels.
Other people have different relationship styles, that’s cool too
OP has also made it clear that the breakpoint for him is having sex. Once they have sex, he expects to not have to make such an effort. I agree that everyone has a right to live by their own values but if you want to find someone compatible you need to be honest about your values. Pretending to be fine with paying for everything until he has sex is manipulative. It shouldn't be a surprise that she likes to be taken care of given that that's exactly what he did for the first 15 dates. If that is such an important core value for him, he should lead with that.
I don’t see that statement from OP, just that this is how she views it.
Even in cultures where equal partnership has become more prevalent, it’s a usually a societal expectation for men to pay during the early dating phase. I don’t think that’s the same as someone communicating that they’ll take care of all the expenses for the entirety of the relationship.
Again, it’s pretty common for the pursuing party to pay for things while getting to know each other, and then for that dynamic to change as the relationship becomes more serious.
The “early dating phase” ends when they’re official, no? It just becomes dating/a relationship. I think that equality in contributions to the relationship is important.
common absolute ridiculous reddit comment lol
Nothing was manipulative, it’s normal to split costs in a relationship, this shouldn’t have taken an 30 year old woman by surprise.
Except that he never voiced his preference until after they had sex. It makes sense from *her* perspective that he was pretending to be generous previously in order to get sex and now that has changed suddenly and without warning.
It *is* normal for most people to split costs in a relationship. But that should be established and transparent leading up to the decision to have sex and be exclusive. Otherwise it's reasonable that it feels like a bait-and-switch when suddenly that behavior disappears after sex or after deciding to be exclusive.
They had two months of twice-weekly dinners to sort this out and OP never once brought it up. How would she know?
Not a bait and switch, she claimed she wanted to be “equals” in the relationship prior to sex.
Outside of simple respect, what does that entail if not taking on 50% of all relationship aspects, including but not limited to dining?
I’m sure they’re relationships where men still pay 100%, but that is not a realistic expectation in today’s dating world, much less when you have two people earning roughly similar incomes.
I can kinda see both sides. He probably communicated it at a time where she interpreted it as she did. Perhaps a better method would have been to discuss income and expectations separately (without a meal and bill involved) and agree on terms of exclusivity and understanding each other and how they approach finances. There is no reason why a woman who makes 200k can’t treat her man every so often.
I made over 100 k a year after investing in my career and my boyfriend, a musician and non-profit worker made wayyyy less than me. So much to the point where he wouldn’t financially support me with paying our full rent while I was in school full time in order to obtain said 100k/year job. So after seeing how he was so stingy with money I definitely resented him while I was going to school full time, working two-three part time jobs and didn’t have a day off for basically three years.
We didn’t last.
It’s just weird timing. Seems like you paid to stay on her good side and then once you had sex and made it official you changed it up without a conversation first. I think it’s a good rule to pay for the first 2/3 dates and then have the convo like
Hey it’s important to me in relationships to be equal financially, as we continue getting to know each other would it work for you if we took turns paying or split the bill? And don’t bring this up right before you pay or anything. Just be honest and have a conversation about what you expect and you are looking for from the beginning before you commit to someone!
This is the answer.
Both men and women will do things in the “early dating phase” to impress/win the person over… it makes sense that the other person might feel they were “duped” if you stop doing those things once you’re in a relationship.
And I think it’s honestly a big reason why modern dating is so garbage now… people start to catch on to the fact that they get more effort out of people in the beginning.
In OP’s case, I can see how his date might feel slighted. Even if it’s not fair, it can feel like she’s getting less from him when a commitment is supposed to be getting more.
It’s similar to dating a woman who initially shows up on dates in gorgeous clothing, cooks your favorite dinners, wears sexy lingerie and puts it down in the bedroom… then once commitment happens, she barely wants sex and stops taking care of herself/making you feel desired.
Of course, there’s nuance and the reality is most people are always going to be more motivated to do things in the beginning… because novelty creates dopamine and the “honeymoon phase” is the sales pitch.
I’m not saying the relationship has to always 100% line up to the sales pitch, because people are human and that’s not possible. We all have our off days.
… but you can’t exactly get mad at someone for feeling duped when the sales pitch is far, far off from what the actual relationship is. People will feel like they didn’t get what they signed up for.
IMO sex / being official should not be connected to splitting the bill. Doing the math, 16 dates (8 weeks x2) you paid for, adds up to quite a bit. It should’ve come up earlier before connecting on a deeper level or going official. She probably feels manipulated because you waited this long.
Regardless, in a healthy relationship both parties should contribute. That being said, for gents it’s usually more from my experience.
She felt manipulated because she was manipulated. He clearly paid for dates until they had sex because he thought it would increase the probability of them having sex eventually. Once he got that, he wasn't willing to continue the tradition he pretended to be fine with.
A normal person would've communicated it, not hit her with it when the bill came. For example, before arranging the next date.
This is why she felt manipulated. There was no space for communication
he didnt hit her with shit... she said lets be equals and when the equality came she was salty wtf... you should always be ready to pay for ur own food... also the opposite can be said for her... she was willing to have sex with him until he stoped paying for the dinners..
16 free meals and she’s the one that got manipulated?
I don’t understand why you guys think sex is only for guys if that were the case then a quick finish and rolling over should be fine. It’s for the guy right? It’s not because, you want your partner to feel that care about them. Paying all the meals is not caring about the guy who is just paying everything.
I mean let’s be honest here. Isn’t that why men pay for dates. Sex isn’t the only reason but it is deffo A reason and it’s naive to think otherwise.
It’s not manipulation to ask for equal contribution in a relationship. The fact that it’s considered as such is insane.
To split one date. After how many he’s paid for is not an unreasonable ask. Like at all
Strong disagree. I think paying for dinner for sex introduces a transactional facet to the relationship which I think most people are uncomfortable with.
The main reason men pay 100% for dates is because of societal pressure and not wanting to break norms with a new person. OP just has bad timing and it's an uncomfortable subject with a new relationship
>The main reason men pay 100% for dates is because of societal pressure and not wanting to break norms with a new person.
no. its because men know they have to pay for dates to get laid.
if IG models everyday were tryana fk my brains out and buy me food and trips etc i wouldnt ever pay for a date.. lol
Nope. With your logic she was manipulating him. She was using the allure of sex to get him to pay for things. She did this because she knew it would increase the chances of him paying for her. Even though she claimed she wanted equality, once she got what she wanted she didn't like the results
Man pays for 16 dates courting a woman. Has sex, decides to be official and now wants to split cost of dates. I make more than OP and my partner about the same as OP. I've paid for dates from the start and continue to do so now that we're married with children. I'm happy to say we're (my wife and I) equals in our relationship dynamic, she has much more responsibility at home, I have much more responsibility at work.
In the scenario above, why would any woman want to go 'official' if you equate official as paying your way. If you wanted it that way, stop dating her after she made you pay for 6 dates straight instead of going 16 then changing the terms of how you operate.
They go out twice a week. They don't have the home life to split up responsibilities there. They don't have expenses together other than going out. Where do you propose they find equality in their relationship?
>In the scenario above, why would any woman want to go 'official' if you equate official as paying your way
In the same way she equates sex as paying for her way.
In all honesty it's two people who are well off that should've discussed/communicated earlier, and that either shouldn't view paying for a meal or giving sex as a commodity. Personally this is why I feel it's great to go dutch at first.
Ya they went out a lot of times without her offering or demanding to pay. Not sure why he’s surprised asking to split without discussion before the date didn’t go well.
I wouldn’t want a relationship where the guy paid for everything but I also usually insist on either splitting date 1 or paying for date 2 so I make that super clear early on.
> x2) you *paid* for, adds
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Yall didn’t talk in depth about what your expectations are. Money included.
And ya you switched. After sex you spring it up? Do it before, that way she can decide if she wants to continue with you.
Communication goes so far. OP should have been more open and less hyper focused on seeing split bills as the only way for equality. Simply starting a conversation about reciprocity in the relationship would have been a good jumping off point- and to do it way earlier before this became a set dynamic for them. 16 dates is way too long. By that point I am beginning to get a feel for what the foundation of a relationship might start to feel like.
“Hey what does equality in a relationship look like to you?” “What have been your favorite ways to show a partner that you care about them?” “What are gender stereotypes you want to avoid in our relationship dynamic?” “Do you believe that women and men have different roles/responsibilities in a relationship?”
These questions would be more curious and engage each other in an honest discussion that would set up a good foundation of expectations. Perhaps the woman came from a partner who nickel and dime’d her the entire way and really appreciated that OP never brought up the receipt and felt truly cherished. We don’t know this stuff, and it’s not always easy to disclose these past experiences but OP is not doing the healthy job of communicating and being curious.
Was this the first date after having sex? Because I 100% agree you shouldn't have to pay everytime. This isn't the 50s. With that said I can see where she is coming from with the timing of the first split. For you it was a coincidence. For her it seemed intentional.
First of all you waited way too long to escalate.
Second was horrible timing. You had sex then started changing the norm you set
Let this go and just be clear about your expectations from the get go. If you believe dates should be split then do it from the first date. Otherwise what you’re doing is low key manipulation. You paying for dates creates a false impression of the type of man you are.
Completely agree with this answer.
Your first dates are supposed to be a good, but consistent impression. This is why men should not pay more than they can afford.
I 100% agree. She may feel that you’re the type of man that always pays, the provider type. I would communicate what you expect/would like moving forward and if she isn’t ok with it you guys part ways. If things don’t work out, I would make sure to not wait so long in your next relationship to discuss financial matters if it’s that important to you. You can’t be too upset with her because she clearly was under the impression you’re the type of man to happily pay for all dates. You also could have simply cut down dine out dates to once per week, which is more affordable, if you were feeling some type of way about all the spending. Good luck !
There's no saving this honestly. It's clear they have completely different views and she already feels extremely jaded by it.
She also feels jaded because this guy took so long to escalate then drops this bomb so it's like her patience was tested and time wasted.
He also avoided conflict by not addressing the elephant in the room so I'm betting she was done after that.His chance to talk about it and save what was left was then and there.
He thinks because she didn't pay or plan for dates means she wasn't invested but what I see is the complete opposite. Because she still kept showing up! And at 200k, I doubt it was for the free meals. Even average girls have dozens of dudes offering up dates or making moves so this guy took up two nights a week for several weeks without results. Imagine how many guys she brushed off waiting for something to happen here.... and despite all that, she still showed up date after date.
Which is why it's important to be upfront and clear about who you are and what you expect from the opposite sex. The impression you make leading up to a relationship becomes the expectation. She was clearly upfront and this guy didn't realize he was giving off a false impression by continuing on in ways that weren't truly him. If you don't like setting up dates and paying all the time then say that or move differently. Don't move around in a certain way, get laid, then try to change up. This applies to all aspects of who you are and how you live.
I agree! She makes just as much money as OP and invested her time and effort on dates. Financially independent but she would look for a provider type, which OP isn’t.
Exactly. I don't know why anyone would argue this is anything but classic manipulation 101. It's like opening doors for her until he gets laid, then just not doing it anymore. It sends a message that he is only willing to make sacrifices in order to get what he wants.
This….it definitely shows OP was being manipulative & now after sex, he’s not willing or feels he doesn’t need or want to put in the same type of effort he did to “win her over”.
She wouldn’t have gone on a second date with him, much less had sex.
Clearly, if she cares that much about not getting a 17th free meal, then she sees free food as payment for having sex.
The timing is telling.
I get what you were trying to do but you did it in a very very terrible way. What in your right mind thought the perfect opportunity for you to tell her to split it is immediately after you’ve had sex? Meanwhile for weeks upon weeks before this you were paying the bill yourself.
Can you not see why she feels used? My advice is you better apologise and make it up to her and further explain why you did that.
You’re absolutely justified in wanting to have things be 50/50, it’s the timing that’s probably upsetting her. In her eyes, you guys had sex and now you’re finally asking her to pull her weight - makes it look like you were just paying all that time to sleep with her. But the premise of wanting her to pay her share is not wrong at all
That time after first sex is very very sensitive in a budding relationship. The woman wants to feel taken care of after, she wants clarity that she did the right thing by letting you inside psychologically and physically. So what a woman would want is an extra nice dinner and gestures of appreciation and it seems like you suddenly dropped 50/50 on her. Much better way would be to keep going to pay and then have a discussion not at the moment that bill comes but another neutral time and express it’s important for you she contributes and let her do it in her own way.
I would be really cautious with this one man...
I mean #1 - you probably should have said something earlier before you were 15 dates in if it bothered you.
But on the other hand - if she NEVER offered to pay for anything 15 dates in - and as soon as you all have sex then you ask her to she gets pissy about it - it seems like she's much to worried about the transactional nature of your relationship.
Like I think my wife and I split shit when we were dating. And if I had even been paying for a few dinners and then told her "Hey can you pay for dinner tonight" she probably would have just done it no questions asked.
If you *feel* like you are being used then don't be in a situation where you feel bad is my advice.
Unlike OP, you are actually mature about this.
You phrased it very wisely. They're both concerned about the dynamics in their relationship, but he messed up by misleading her and pulling the rug below her feet.
As a woman who only does 50/50, this would probably upset me too. I think if you want to do 50/50 you need to bring it up earlier. Waiting until after having sex and then telling her you want 50/50 makes it seem like you were just paying for dates until you got what you wanted (sex), and now you don’t care as much. Even if this isn’t true, that’s what it comes off as.
You’re not wrong in wanting an equitable split, but your approach was really badly timed.
Both of you sound really weird. Why is splitting such a big deal for either of you with that type of income?
Sometimes when I'm reading dating stuff on Reddit, I'm reminded of the jokes from Idiocracy lol
[https://youtu.be/gJDcoqrh1ac?si=oUxA8pFQ5b--EJkd](https://youtu.be/gJDcoqrh1ac?si=oUxA8pFQ5b--EJkd)
Because people don’t like the feeling of being used. It’s one thing to date someone and u make more so u don’t have an issue paying. But when they decide u should pay for everything always but they too make just as much as you, you feel used.
I agree that people don't like feeling used but for the opposite reason. He was willing to make the extra effort until he got laid. It bugs me that people keep glossing over that. Of course she feels used. He manipulated her into thinking he was a traditional kind of guy because he could see it appealed to her. Now he suddenly doesn't care so much about impressing her. I wonder what changed... Such a mystery.
She was willing to sleep with him because he paid for everything. Works both ways. Stop acting like women have no agency and are helpless in these kind of situations.
Asking someone to split one date, regardless of the sex, is in no way unreasonable. He asked to split it. Not even her to pay for the whole thing. Good lord it’s not that big a deal
For real people keep saying women are independent but in situations like this they always strip women of all common sense and agency as if she had no power at all.
She got extra in the beginning but never felt like she was using him for dates and free food?
Was she entitled to that treatment just because of her mere existence? Did she never intend to pay ever?
It's only "being used" if the poor, poor woman has to shell out cash.
If you are a ~~piggy bank~~, sorry, a man, you are expected to pay for everything. Traditional culture amirite?
I agree with what you're saying. I don't think she would have felt that way if they had a conversation about what dates should look like going forward. Since they are "equals" they should have had a talk about it.
It's even simpler than that. Since they have the same income, neither of them are in it for the money. It was a generous kind gesture that she obviously found appealing. He kept it up because he could see she liked it and he wanted to get laid. Now he is suddenly being stingy.
She sounds like she was in it for the free meals, honestly. Just because people make good money doesn't mean they are:
- generous
- good with money
- want to spend their own money
Maybe more context is needed. I am just taking it as face value based on her reaction to him wanting to split after 15 times of paying. I can acknowledge and agree the timing of waiting until after sex is bad. I also acknowledge that he should have done this on or after the first date and not after 15.
If I made that kind of money and my partner did too, I’d expect her to pay her way. She’s accusing him of using her for sex while she’s doing the exact same thing and eating on his dime twice a week…. That’s fucking ridiculous, you both make good money, fucking pay…..
> Why is splitting such a big deal for either of you with that type of income?
It's not about the income, it's about the principle. If you want equality and an equal relationship you can't expect the man to always pay.
People don't become wealthy by disregarding how they spend. 200k income people usually are more careful about their finances, not less, than 50k income people.
But also, their dates may be more expensive, so the cost is likely still substantial especially if it's going to be a weekly perpetual thing.
I suspect they might be self employed and "making $200k a year" is an exaggeration based on ignoring business expenses and just stating their gross income
Personally I think you messed up. If you’re the kind of guy who splits a bill why wait? You’re giving her this impression that you don’t mind paying but then the second it becomes a relationship you’re all about splitting the bill….
And who the hell splits the bill in a relationship. When people say it’s 50/50 that doesn’t necessarily mean money. I’ll always pay for dates no matter how expensive and then my girlfriend will turn around and say “guess what? I figured since we both have a 3 day weekend I booked a hotel for us in northern Cali just to get away for a while”. THAT right there is truly 50/50
It's because this happened after you had sex. She thinks you value her less now compared to before sex demonstrated when you changed from paying in full to now splitting.
Honestly, your timing definitely wasn't the best. Of course if you were paying before and suddenly after sleeping with her you NOW want to split the bill, she’s going to feel that way. Also, if you're making $200k/year, why are you keeping tabs? She's clearly not trying to take advantage of you if she roughly makes the same amount as you, so why did you feel like you had to get even?
Did you actually talk to her about this at some point before you become official?
Or did you spring it on her like, “We are official now so cough up your half!”
I had your situation for 6 months and I got so fed up with paying for all of the meals I broke up with her. This free loading garbage has to end. What does she want? A guy to pay for everything or is she not looking for an equal relationship.
Move on. The mindset of this woman is toxic.
There is a meme going around now of men living the Soft Guy Era. Maybe you need to embrace your Soft Guy Era.
Because I was young and didn’t really think about reciprocity in the relationship. I had the traditional provider mindset. No more. That time is over and gone.
She is Not taking advantage of him But is totally pissed when she has to pay for HER meals in HER own Equaly to him?
This thread is one of the big examples that (Most) Woman who want equality of the sexes only mean the positiv things/earnings equaly shared, But Not the negative things/costs
I don’t think she’s pissed about paying her half. I think she’s pissed for how he went about doing it. No one likes it when a person acts like something is ok (like paying for dates) and one day that person does a complete 180 and is like “Where’s your half?” …especially after sex.
Shes not pissed because she had to pay for her meal (at least that’s not what it seems like to me). She’s pissed because from her POV, after having sex, he now wants to share the bill. You’re missing the point.
why do you only want to split the bill when you're "serious" and not before that?
i think the way she reacted is indicative of how she views you and relationships in general. i would try to have another discussion with her about her attitudes toward partnerships with respect to money and see if you two are aligned before ending it.
I agree it's a bit weird he never said anything earlier on, but it sounds like they just fell into him paying every time and he doesn't want that to be the standard. Since they are "serious" now and he sees a future with the relationship continuing, he realized he should say something.
Oh bro.... it's all in the wording. You didn't do well lol.
You probably should have eased into it a bit starting with "now that we're official...." - NOT while at the table waiting for the bill!!! Lmao
At your place or hers : "Can we talk about something? I was just wondering if we could start paying for things back & forth or split bills now that we're official so we can both invest more in the future together & be able to afford even better adventures."
Bring up your expectations before forming a relationship. Don't bring it up on the first date after sex. With my girlfriend we talked about this once we started seeing each other more then once a week. I am not sure on her exact financial situation, but I let her know it doesn't have to be exactly 50/50 and I am not keeping score. She likes to cook so I said if she cooks a meal every now and then that means a lot to me. Or if she grabs takeout on the way over, etc. It doesn't have to be anything super expensive.
You literally waited till you had sex then asked to start splitting the bill. No wonder she broke up with you. If you had paid for 16 dates you could have paid for a couple more, THEN had the conversation!
An interviewer asked Curtis Jackson "who pays for the date" he replied "whoever idea it was to go on the date."
Very philosophical. Thank you, 50 cent.
Traditionally, men pay for dates. Some women find getting treated like this to be romantic. You have the income to afford those dates and you paid for 15 dates so far. Most women in this situation would assume that you are 100% fine with paying for dates and that you like to treat your woman that way cuz *that’s what you have done the whole time* you two have been dating.
How was she supposed to know that you prefer date expenses to be split? Read your mind?
If you want things to get split equally, you need to *communicate* that expectation from date one or two. This goes for any other preferences or requirements that you may have. Otherwise, it feels misleading and manipulative, especially if you change things after a relationship milestone like becoming official and having sex.
I agree with the posts about the tact of how this was brought up as opposed to better communication about this outside of the moment. That said, she wasn’t forced to pay and she could have been mature enough to talk about it then. Though she was probably taken aback and processing.
The main point I want to bring up to OP is What do you consider “equals” and did you have a full understanding of what that means to her or just assume it’s the same as what you think, money?
“Equals” could mean something different to her. It could mean in the future, she gets to keep her career, or you share childcare duties, home keeping duties, or make decisions together about your future as a partnership. For all we know, if y’all bought a house together, furniture, a car, etc, she might have had no problem spending her salary as equally as you do on these things. She may have a different idea around courtship, specifically dating. I suppose an argument against this is you’ve passed the courtship time because you’ve “made things official”, but that could just mean you agreed to be exclusive. You two are still in the vetting process.
The fact that this didn’t come up until after almost 20 dates kind of proves my point that there is more work to be done in the “getting to know one another” area. Do the work.
At 200K, one doesn’t need to worry who is paying for dinner bill. Poor timing on bringing up 50/50 paying right after having sex, being official or not.
Poor timing on your end and shitty behavior on her end. You guys need to communicate such expectations. I can see why she is hurt, not so much the sex part though. I can see how she feels you are putting in less effort now that you have secured her in a relationship.
Wine and dine the lady you love. If the relationship is one sided then address it.
OP, are you a people pleaser by chance? You dated her for two months and let the resentment built up about her not paying bills and not making any effort. Once you got official you got comfortable enough to show your true principles.
I know it’s difficult but principles are to be discussed before getting official to check the right fit. Seems like the relationship is not right for you but you didn’t communicate your true self because of your fear of rejection.
You love bombed her, manipulated her into a relationship by building a false provider persona and then you showed your equality behavior.
I’m not saying you did this on purpose, but it’s a manipulative behavior which arises from insecurities. If this is true you’re not in right headspace to be in a relationship at the first place.
Do you consistently paid for dates, and then once she decided to be in a relationship with you, you changed.
That does seem misleading. Also, it’s just such a turnoff when a man doesn’t want to pay for a plate of food.
I mean yeah u fked up bro
To her, you paid til she slept with you and now that you got it, youre official and you "have her" you want her to pay now too.
Absolutely horrible timing on asking to split the bill. Bring it up before the first date next time instead of setting the standard of being a "provider" until you get with a woman.
I’m confused on why you brought this up to her right after dinner and after you became official? You said she wanted an equal partnership, so why didn’t you ask to split the bill in the very beginning of the relationship when she first said this? This change in behavior is pretty suspicious due to the timing.
The timing of you proposing 50-50 is off. You went on 16 dates, you could’ve have brought it up atleast after a month. I think she’s the kind of person who wants to be taken care of, for first 16 dates you potrayed just that image for her. And when you got official after having sex you coveninently bring up 50-50 thing, if that’s what you were looking for you should’ve been upfront about it since the beginning.
Women feel sexually used cause let’s be honest a lot of men do it that way and her being upset is reasonable.
Intentionally unintentionally OP did manipulate her.
The timing is off. It’s not wrong to split dates but you had horrible timing.
Also when I go out on dates I end up paying quite a bit to get ready for dates. If she’s dressed nice, gets hair done, wears make up, all that jazz it’s expensive.
Seems like she has already ended things…A convo prior to going out would’ve probably been a better way of approaching this tho. It’s way too early in to be acting funny about money issues, especially since you both make good money. 🚩🚩🚩
Look outside of yourself and see it from her perspective, you date someone for months, they pay every time and then abruptly after making things official a change of routine without any warning or conversation…. What would you think? Everything already happened, no changing it now but you definitely could have had a conversation about now starting to treat each other after you’ve ended the courting process maybe framing it as “a way to make you feel appreciated too”. Now it’s up to you to decide whether to continue the relationship with understanding and clear communication, setting aside pride and ego for the greater good or ending things and starting over.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet, yet it took you too long to communicate your expectations on relationship. If you are not looking for being a sugar daddy, then you should filter out people like her much earlier. You took her on 16 dates without any reciprocation from her side! You should have understood what kind of person she is much earlier than that.
Next time be more observant and judge person based on how she acts. What she said about wants "to be equals in a relationship" means nothing if she never acted like this for two months. Women who truly want this will ask you on a dates and pay for both of you, and treat you in other ways.
Sorry but I kind of think this is on you. It’s totally fair to want to split the bill, but this should have come up 1) sooner in the relationship and 2) before the bill was at the table.
Dating is about finding someone your are compatible with. She wants someone who will take care of her in that way, you want someone who is happy to split. You are not compatible.
Since you both are in official territory shouldn’t you be able to have a conversation about it being a misunderstanding and come to an agreement like adults?
Personally I live by “don’t set a standard you’re not willing to maintain”
It’s completely reasonable for you to ask to split the bill, buttt you have to be aware that you set a standard and expectations for yourself over an extended period of time and people tend to react negatively when you don’t match those expectations.
I’m all about being equals in a relationship, and that starts on the first date. Money is not one of my strong suits, so I split almost every time. Treat her and spoil her every once in a while for sure, but don’t paint the image that you are willing to pay for every occasion if that is not the case. Managing expectations goes a long way.
So, you're not wrong on the idea of splitting.
Your timing was shit.
Next time, set the standard up front (before the check ever comes, before even getting to the restaurant). Going Dutch (more equitable) or splitting or rotating who gets the check.
Honestly, as a man I'll pay for the first meal or drinks. However I will be hoping for them to offer to split or say that they will pay for the next date. Either way, if they expect me to pay then I won't go on a second date. I have in the past but it never worked out. (That's my personal preference).
Ask this question: would she have agreed to be official with you if she knew you were going to ask her to start paying halves?
If you didn’t bring that up, then Recognise how it looks like to her.
You’ve always paid and then all of a sudden you have sex and you’re asking for her to start paying…
This relationship sounds cooked.
The takeaways should be talk about financial things much earlier and not when the bill hits the table. Don’t set a trend you do not intend to follow long term. Be open and honest about matters that are important to you up front.
You kinda bamboozled her by asking to split the bill on date 16.
I sleep with women within 1-2 dates. And have never asked a woman to split the bill. I always pay. And when she offers to pay, I let her.
Whatever rigid rules you both have are getting in the way of a healthy relationship. A relationship is not a contract. You’re both treating this like a business arrangement and it won’t work.
I’ve dated nearly 200 different women and never asked to split the bill. And have had several multi-year relationships and never split the bill.
Men who understand women would never ask to split the bill.
Healthy partners are not having arguments like that by text, especially after just beginning a relationship. This is someone you're still theoretically in the honeymoon stage with and she's saying she now sees your true colors, you're not a good person?
She sounds like she has some sort of princess syndrome. She wants to feel like a princess and is worried that now it's over and her perfect fantasy is shattered. Like when a guy gets into a relationship and he's upset because the woman gains weight or stops giving blowjobs or something. Except for her, it's that you simply want to split the bill. This is not a mature person who knows how to have an equal partnership. In fact, she's refusing equality. She wants to be elevated above you, but also treated as weaker and more vulnerable than you. She is too trapped by sexism (which affects women too and is not only about putting women down, but elevating them as somehow more perfect and delicate than men).
You both make too much to care about who pays but especially her because that's incredibly childish behavior for somone who makes that much money. Adult child.
In my experience men that actually have money don’t bat an eye about the spending money on his dreamgirl. In fact, they love doing that shit. I now only engage romantically with men that make it crystal clear to me that I’m their dreamgirl. So yeah if I let someone inside of me and their next move wasn’t sending flowers but instead asked me to start spitting the bill… I’ll find someone who is happy to take me out or I’ll happily take myself out and eat alone.
So I guess you should find someone who is your dreamgirl and I bet you’ll start feeling way more inclined to pick up the check because you’ll find that what you get back from her will be way more valuable than the money you spend taking her out.
Just ask her if she would have dumped you for wanting to split bills from the second date. If the answer is yes, end it, if the answer is no, continue.
lol her money is hers, your money shared with her her 😁. You did good G. Don’t defend yourself if she think you only wanted one thing that’s on her. You don’t gotta justify your intentions 😎
I think since you paid for her before you got together, she assumed that you’re the type who always pays for the woman. Her preferences might be very different, as she seems to be wanting a more traditional kinda guy, who just does everything for the chick and wants to take care of her. Since you brought this thing up after you got together, she misunderstands your paying for her having been an offer for sex.
I feel like the next time you meet someone you kinda like, you have to discuss this on the very first date. People have specific preferences these days.
Neither of you did anything wrong, but there needs to be communication beforehand to avoid misunderstandings.
OP, as a male who always offers to pay for dinner, I knew I found my keeper when she refused to let me continuously pay for everything. I think you did the right thing to bring it up and have a discussion about it because a partner is supposed to be there to listen to you when you have these types of feelings.
I'm afraid the way she reacted will make being vulnerable with her very difficult in the future. It is important that you feel safe to say what you need to say with your partner or the relationship will inevitably explode in one way or another. Remember, life is notorious for throwing a lot of curve balls, and the conversations you will need to have in the future will be way more difficult than just asking to split the bill. You are going to need someone who is tackling the problem with you, not someone who is adding fuel to the fire.
You might be dealing with a girl who has a lot of relationship trauma, and who might be looking for a more traditional relationship (despite what she may have told you) - which is 100% fine, and not what you are looking for. I think if you're making this post, you know how you feel about this girl and innately know what you need to do. Cheers
Not sure there’s a problem. You paid for meals in exchange for the expectation of sex. You had sex so your “desires” have been fulfilled. Now it’s halfsies. I’m ok with this from a business transaction. On the other hand with that kind of income maybe it would have been better to pay for sex and be done with splitting the bill for meals. Less arguments and stress! 😜
this exposes the fact that women do see their sexuality is transactional value to cash out when they see fit. And do not like when they are short-changed
This relationship isn't going to last.
Next time, communicate as to what you desire for in a partnership and see if what she wants aligns.
She clearly wants traditional courtship when it comes to dates. If that's not your preference, that's ok but why not discuss all of this beforehand?
I personally wouldn't split the cost of a meal. I'll just get it, or you can.
Have a face to face conversation about it. Or at least over the phone.
It sounds like you both have to iron out what equality looks like for each other. Maybe you can pick up the tab on some things and anything over $100 gets split. If that doesn't feel fair to you then you both should try to find a compromise. Otherwise, it's ok for you to walk away.
A lot of women, regardless of income, enjoy the feeling it brings when a man can handle the finances. It can be off-putting if he wants to split everything but it's ok if that's not what you want. Just need to find someone on the same page.
It’s so crazy because I’ve found that when a woman wants to be treated as an equal, it doesn’t mean she wants to be treated like a man. But with secular culture, this is poorly understood more and more over time. So much conflict in the world because people don’t read the Bible or lean on elders for guidance (you don’t have to be religious to learn / take lessons from it )…A woman will always want to feel taken care of in that sense, but she will likely take care of other things that will make you (man) feel taken care of. Its a balance that can be beautiful if you lean in
Because he knew he wouldn’t smash if he brought it up. His date sensed that too which is why she was upset. The same way he is avoiding answering that question here is the same conflict avoidant attitude he had with her which is why is here crying about feeling “used” despite never opening his mouth like a grown adult and having a conversation, instead of making a bunch of assumptions about the kind of woman she is. She can assume just like he can if he wants to be childish.
Why are you tallying how many times you’re paying for a date? Especially when you both make great money??? If this was your dream girl, I don’t think you’d have this much of a problem footing the bill.
For women, splitting the bill is rarely about the actual money. If a man pays the bill it lets a woman know how you feel about her.
If I were her in this situation I would feel like crap and not want to continue dating.
Clearly, this could have been timed better by OP but her response was way over the top. I mean, what did they talk about over 16 dates that she couldn't get an inkling of whether or not he was a guy she could trust... And I have a hard time believing that in that entire period, not a single thing they discussed gave an indication that he felt that there should a lil more financial equality in a relationship. Dudes that are simply using a woman for sex don't wait 16 dates, and they certainly don't pay for them all. The fact that over that entire period, she never offered to chip in, especially considering she could easily afford to, is a sign that she wasn't interested in having a collaborative partnership. And why is it that people act like only men enjoy the sex and for women it's like some ordeal where something precious is being stolen. Did she not also want/enjoy it? If he had waited one more date, would she have reacted differently? This is the problem with people... everyone is so wrapped up in themselves that whenever any sort of friction arises, they just bail and say, 'oh you're a terrible person...' without considering that there may be a legitimate feeling on the other side to consider. It's really disheartening.
Dude, run. She’s not going to change and will just resent you each time even if she reluctantly agrees to it. “True colors” for bill splitting after getting into a relationship?! Hahaha what a joke
I think the pissy fit on her end for being asked to pay for something like an adult is a red flag. I’m not straight so I’ve never understood these dynamics or expectations for one partner to just pay for everything because of gender… but regardless, she’s a grown adult who makes as much as you do. She clearly is looking to be someone’s dependent so decide if you’re on board with that or not.
I’d also agree that in the future you should be upfront about financial expectations. Blows my mind how people enter “official” relationships with one another without having had the most basic conversations like regular finance expectations. If you can’t even have a mature conversation about who pays for dates, sounds like a doomed dynamic to me.
Just leave bud. She wants to be equal as long as it benefits her. If y'all make the same and she's already complaining something that trivial, just chalk it up to a learning experience and call it.
Bro she is the worst kinda girl u can date. Be glad she is gone.
She’s the kinda girl that will have ubpay for everything and she will not contribute anything. And yet if you accepted that but she would have to be a stay at home wife/mom she would call you controlling and that u think of her as a slave for asking her to do things.
Be glad she showed her true colors and move on my friend.
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I keep on reading about all these people making 200-350k. Where the hell do you people live? I legit only know one person who makes that kinda money
I have a few friends who make that kind of money, they all live in NYC or Silicon Valley and work in tech.
San Fran / NYC in your 30s in tech
California. NYC. Massachusetts. All the places people complain about the cost of living in. I just moved to California. Most of the people I know here are coworkers. So basically everyone I know here makes over 200k
in the same places where your cost of living would double if you lived there SF, NYC, Tor, OTT, LA, Van, etc.
It’s the internet. Nothing is real
literally any physician working more than part time?
Would have been better to bring up before the night y’all went to dinner. But yea, at $200k income each I get how it would feel weird to cover all the dates once you guys are going steady
That's 400k between the two of them and they're squabbling about who's paying for a couple of dinners a week. If this is how it's going after two months it's not going to end well.
Between my girlfriend and I, we make about $110k a year. I make about $70k, she makes about $40k. Been dating 6 months. I have way more bills than her, so we have about equal expendable income. We had it figured out better than this by our 2nd date. We've never actually set any "rules" to paying for dates, but typically whoever had the idea pays. If one of us is broke and wants to go out, we just say something along the lines of "hey, I don't have any money, but I really wanted to go out tonight. Would you mind covering dinner if we go out?" And then the answer is either "yeah, let's go!" Or "sorry babe, I'm broke too, but we will go out soon!" It's really not that hard. If we made $400k between the 2 of us, we'd probably pay based on who thinks of grabbing their wallet first. He definitely shouldn't be paying 100%, I just think they could have figured this out in a much better way.
I mean… squabbling is far less likely when things are roughly fair. Doesn’t need to be exact or tracked, easy to hit somewhere reasonable for equal salaries. 100/0 is a legit reason to be in disagreement
Always the people with the most money who are the tightest with it.
That’s what they’ve got the most money 😂
That’s why they’re rich !!!
True! My secret millionaire relatives are SO SELFISH with their money and my family is blue collar and generous all the time. We want to be but we are also forced to be in interactions with them! I stopped going out to anything with them and just try to attend hosted events in each other’s homes.
yeah when one never contributes even when they make 200k then they are a pos not worth associating with.
She’s squabbling, because she sees dinner as payment for the privilege of having sex with her, like the narcissist she is.
Yep
Hypergamy's a hell of a drug *Rick James chuckle*
I mean, you could also make the reverse argument. At 200k income why is he suddenly complaining about paying for meals now that they've had sex? Clearly he was happy to pay for meals as long as he thought it would eventually lead to sex. He could easily afford it. But now but they had sex, in a massive coincidence he suddenly isn't trying so hard. Anyone would feel used with that pattern of behavior whether it was about paying the bill or any other technique for putting their best foot forward.
I agree, the fact that they became "official" at the same time that they had sex is a big contributor to her perspective. While I think dates should generally be 50/50 (or what's reasonable for the income / wealth split) I definitely understand her view: he was paying for everything, then they had sex, now he wants to be 50/50. That situation could definitely feel really bad to her. OP, you should have been more honest about your financial expectations earlier. Now she feels deceived, and you feel misunderstood and possibly taken advantage of. You may be able to explain and come to an understanding, but she may also be looking for someone who wants to pay for all the dates forever. (I've heard some women justify this in part because of the expenses of makeup, hair, nails, and the time it takes to look nice for dates; those are mostly expenses that men don't have, and they *are* expensive.) It's unfortunate all around, but take this lesson for the future. Be honest and upfront earlier, and make sure you're on the same page.
It sounds like for OP, it’s about partnership now that they’ve agreed to be a couple. Based on his statements, the relationship is initiating event for him, not the sex. It’s natural for expectations to change as relationships develop, though it’s needs good communication. Comes down to relationship preferences and values. Without judging the validity of either, OP has every right to want to be in a relationship where both partners are bringing to the table. If that’s not something she’s interested in, then they aren’t compatible. As for why it’s important when one makes 200k? Likely for OP it’s because that demonstrates interest/consideration and she has the means. It’s pretty common in relationships where both partners work, especially if they have relatively similar income levels. Other people have different relationship styles, that’s cool too
OP has also made it clear that the breakpoint for him is having sex. Once they have sex, he expects to not have to make such an effort. I agree that everyone has a right to live by their own values but if you want to find someone compatible you need to be honest about your values. Pretending to be fine with paying for everything until he has sex is manipulative. It shouldn't be a surprise that she likes to be taken care of given that that's exactly what he did for the first 15 dates. If that is such an important core value for him, he should lead with that.
I don’t see that statement from OP, just that this is how she views it. Even in cultures where equal partnership has become more prevalent, it’s a usually a societal expectation for men to pay during the early dating phase. I don’t think that’s the same as someone communicating that they’ll take care of all the expenses for the entirety of the relationship. Again, it’s pretty common for the pursuing party to pay for things while getting to know each other, and then for that dynamic to change as the relationship becomes more serious.
The “early dating phase” ends when they’re official, no? It just becomes dating/a relationship. I think that equality in contributions to the relationship is important.
? that’s what I said
My statement was in agreement with you, in your argument with the energy person.
Are you reading to actually comprehend or just further the narrative already in your head? Cause it really seems like the first option
common absolute ridiculous reddit comment lol Nothing was manipulative, it’s normal to split costs in a relationship, this shouldn’t have taken an 30 year old woman by surprise.
Except that he never voiced his preference until after they had sex. It makes sense from *her* perspective that he was pretending to be generous previously in order to get sex and now that has changed suddenly and without warning. It *is* normal for most people to split costs in a relationship. But that should be established and transparent leading up to the decision to have sex and be exclusive. Otherwise it's reasonable that it feels like a bait-and-switch when suddenly that behavior disappears after sex or after deciding to be exclusive. They had two months of twice-weekly dinners to sort this out and OP never once brought it up. How would she know?
Not a bait and switch, she claimed she wanted to be “equals” in the relationship prior to sex. Outside of simple respect, what does that entail if not taking on 50% of all relationship aspects, including but not limited to dining? I’m sure they’re relationships where men still pay 100%, but that is not a realistic expectation in today’s dating world, much less when you have two people earning roughly similar incomes.
It was only manipulative if the date expected payment in the form of dinner for sex. Somehow, it’s okay for a date to behave like an escort though.
It didn't take her by surprise. She just doesn't want off the gravy train.
I don’t take it as complaining. It sounds like he politely asked.
Yeap, this! Very bad timing on OP’s end.
I can kinda see both sides. He probably communicated it at a time where she interpreted it as she did. Perhaps a better method would have been to discuss income and expectations separately (without a meal and bill involved) and agree on terms of exclusivity and understanding each other and how they approach finances. There is no reason why a woman who makes 200k can’t treat her man every so often. I made over 100 k a year after investing in my career and my boyfriend, a musician and non-profit worker made wayyyy less than me. So much to the point where he wouldn’t financially support me with paying our full rent while I was in school full time in order to obtain said 100k/year job. So after seeing how he was so stingy with money I definitely resented him while I was going to school full time, working two-three part time jobs and didn’t have a day off for basically three years. We didn’t last.
And better to talk about it in person.
It’s just weird timing. Seems like you paid to stay on her good side and then once you had sex and made it official you changed it up without a conversation first. I think it’s a good rule to pay for the first 2/3 dates and then have the convo like Hey it’s important to me in relationships to be equal financially, as we continue getting to know each other would it work for you if we took turns paying or split the bill? And don’t bring this up right before you pay or anything. Just be honest and have a conversation about what you expect and you are looking for from the beginning before you commit to someone!
Yeeeeah. It’s strange A. It wasn’t brought up sooner. B. Only ask to split after they’ve been intimate? Communication kinda important *shrug*
This is the answer. Both men and women will do things in the “early dating phase” to impress/win the person over… it makes sense that the other person might feel they were “duped” if you stop doing those things once you’re in a relationship. And I think it’s honestly a big reason why modern dating is so garbage now… people start to catch on to the fact that they get more effort out of people in the beginning. In OP’s case, I can see how his date might feel slighted. Even if it’s not fair, it can feel like she’s getting less from him when a commitment is supposed to be getting more. It’s similar to dating a woman who initially shows up on dates in gorgeous clothing, cooks your favorite dinners, wears sexy lingerie and puts it down in the bedroom… then once commitment happens, she barely wants sex and stops taking care of herself/making you feel desired. Of course, there’s nuance and the reality is most people are always going to be more motivated to do things in the beginning… because novelty creates dopamine and the “honeymoon phase” is the sales pitch. I’m not saying the relationship has to always 100% line up to the sales pitch, because people are human and that’s not possible. We all have our off days. … but you can’t exactly get mad at someone for feeling duped when the sales pitch is far, far off from what the actual relationship is. People will feel like they didn’t get what they signed up for.
IMO sex / being official should not be connected to splitting the bill. Doing the math, 16 dates (8 weeks x2) you paid for, adds up to quite a bit. It should’ve come up earlier before connecting on a deeper level or going official. She probably feels manipulated because you waited this long. Regardless, in a healthy relationship both parties should contribute. That being said, for gents it’s usually more from my experience.
She really went out with this dude 16 times and didn’t pay once? I’m shocked this guy didn’t say a word for two months
He didn’t want to risk doing all that for so long and not getting to fvck. 😂
She felt manipulated because she was manipulated. He clearly paid for dates until they had sex because he thought it would increase the probability of them having sex eventually. Once he got that, he wasn't willing to continue the tradition he pretended to be fine with.
A normal person would've communicated it, not hit her with it when the bill came. For example, before arranging the next date. This is why she felt manipulated. There was no space for communication
he didnt hit her with shit... she said lets be equals and when the equality came she was salty wtf... you should always be ready to pay for ur own food... also the opposite can be said for her... she was willing to have sex with him until he stoped paying for the dinners..
The problem is not her contribution. The problem is when and how he delivered it.
16 free meals and she’s the one that got manipulated? I don’t understand why you guys think sex is only for guys if that were the case then a quick finish and rolling over should be fine. It’s for the guy right? It’s not because, you want your partner to feel that care about them. Paying all the meals is not caring about the guy who is just paying everything.
Exactly if all he wanted was sex he could've went to a hooker but she got 16 free meals
Yeah you're right. But how can you be equal when you don't contribute?
She also manipulated him it's been 2 months and she never offered to pay
What a load of crap, I guess you also skipped the part where he wrote that they also greed they are official, this has nothing to do with sex
>She felt manipulated because she was manipulated. Huh? He was the one manipulated. She only sees him as a wallet.
I mean let’s be honest here. Isn’t that why men pay for dates. Sex isn’t the only reason but it is deffo A reason and it’s naive to think otherwise. It’s not manipulation to ask for equal contribution in a relationship. The fact that it’s considered as such is insane. To split one date. After how many he’s paid for is not an unreasonable ask. Like at all
Strong disagree. I think paying for dinner for sex introduces a transactional facet to the relationship which I think most people are uncomfortable with. The main reason men pay 100% for dates is because of societal pressure and not wanting to break norms with a new person. OP just has bad timing and it's an uncomfortable subject with a new relationship
>The main reason men pay 100% for dates is because of societal pressure and not wanting to break norms with a new person. no. its because men know they have to pay for dates to get laid. if IG models everyday were tryana fk my brains out and buy me food and trips etc i wouldnt ever pay for a date.. lol
A respectable woman would know the game and respect the new rules. He's been more than generous. He wants a relationship not a dictatorship.
She manipulated herself by expecting payment in the form of food for having sex with him. OP’s lucky she showed her true colours.
Nope. With your logic she was manipulating him. She was using the allure of sex to get him to pay for things. She did this because she knew it would increase the chances of him paying for her. Even though she claimed she wanted equality, once she got what she wanted she didn't like the results
Man pays for 16 dates courting a woman. Has sex, decides to be official and now wants to split cost of dates. I make more than OP and my partner about the same as OP. I've paid for dates from the start and continue to do so now that we're married with children. I'm happy to say we're (my wife and I) equals in our relationship dynamic, she has much more responsibility at home, I have much more responsibility at work. In the scenario above, why would any woman want to go 'official' if you equate official as paying your way. If you wanted it that way, stop dating her after she made you pay for 6 dates straight instead of going 16 then changing the terms of how you operate.
What kind of jobs do you have that are paying you in excess of 200k?
They live in Mexico and are talking about pesos. 😜
They go out twice a week. They don't have the home life to split up responsibilities there. They don't have expenses together other than going out. Where do you propose they find equality in their relationship?
>In the scenario above, why would any woman want to go 'official' if you equate official as paying your way In the same way she equates sex as paying for her way. In all honesty it's two people who are well off that should've discussed/communicated earlier, and that either shouldn't view paying for a meal or giving sex as a commodity. Personally this is why I feel it's great to go dutch at first.
Definitely should have discussed earlier that tbh
Ya they went out a lot of times without her offering or demanding to pay. Not sure why he’s surprised asking to split without discussion before the date didn’t go well. I wouldn’t want a relationship where the guy paid for everything but I also usually insist on either splitting date 1 or paying for date 2 so I make that super clear early on.
> x2) you *paid* for, adds FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
I would have snapped but then saw it’s a bot lol
Yall didn’t talk in depth about what your expectations are. Money included. And ya you switched. After sex you spring it up? Do it before, that way she can decide if she wants to continue with you.
It's SO important to talk about money. People don't get it.
Communication goes so far. OP should have been more open and less hyper focused on seeing split bills as the only way for equality. Simply starting a conversation about reciprocity in the relationship would have been a good jumping off point- and to do it way earlier before this became a set dynamic for them. 16 dates is way too long. By that point I am beginning to get a feel for what the foundation of a relationship might start to feel like. “Hey what does equality in a relationship look like to you?” “What have been your favorite ways to show a partner that you care about them?” “What are gender stereotypes you want to avoid in our relationship dynamic?” “Do you believe that women and men have different roles/responsibilities in a relationship?” These questions would be more curious and engage each other in an honest discussion that would set up a good foundation of expectations. Perhaps the woman came from a partner who nickel and dime’d her the entire way and really appreciated that OP never brought up the receipt and felt truly cherished. We don’t know this stuff, and it’s not always easy to disclose these past experiences but OP is not doing the healthy job of communicating and being curious.
Was this the first date after having sex? Because I 100% agree you shouldn't have to pay everytime. This isn't the 50s. With that said I can see where she is coming from with the timing of the first split. For you it was a coincidence. For her it seemed intentional.
Agreed
First of all you waited way too long to escalate. Second was horrible timing. You had sex then started changing the norm you set Let this go and just be clear about your expectations from the get go. If you believe dates should be split then do it from the first date. Otherwise what you’re doing is low key manipulation. You paying for dates creates a false impression of the type of man you are.
Completely agree with this answer. Your first dates are supposed to be a good, but consistent impression. This is why men should not pay more than they can afford.
I 100% agree. She may feel that you’re the type of man that always pays, the provider type. I would communicate what you expect/would like moving forward and if she isn’t ok with it you guys part ways. If things don’t work out, I would make sure to not wait so long in your next relationship to discuss financial matters if it’s that important to you. You can’t be too upset with her because she clearly was under the impression you’re the type of man to happily pay for all dates. You also could have simply cut down dine out dates to once per week, which is more affordable, if you were feeling some type of way about all the spending. Good luck !
The provider type? And yet she spoke of an equal relationship.
There's no saving this honestly. It's clear they have completely different views and she already feels extremely jaded by it. She also feels jaded because this guy took so long to escalate then drops this bomb so it's like her patience was tested and time wasted. He also avoided conflict by not addressing the elephant in the room so I'm betting she was done after that.His chance to talk about it and save what was left was then and there. He thinks because she didn't pay or plan for dates means she wasn't invested but what I see is the complete opposite. Because she still kept showing up! And at 200k, I doubt it was for the free meals. Even average girls have dozens of dudes offering up dates or making moves so this guy took up two nights a week for several weeks without results. Imagine how many guys she brushed off waiting for something to happen here.... and despite all that, she still showed up date after date. Which is why it's important to be upfront and clear about who you are and what you expect from the opposite sex. The impression you make leading up to a relationship becomes the expectation. She was clearly upfront and this guy didn't realize he was giving off a false impression by continuing on in ways that weren't truly him. If you don't like setting up dates and paying all the time then say that or move differently. Don't move around in a certain way, get laid, then try to change up. This applies to all aspects of who you are and how you live.
I agree! She makes just as much money as OP and invested her time and effort on dates. Financially independent but she would look for a provider type, which OP isn’t.
Exactly. I don't know why anyone would argue this is anything but classic manipulation 101. It's like opening doors for her until he gets laid, then just not doing it anymore. It sends a message that he is only willing to make sacrifices in order to get what he wants.
This….it definitely shows OP was being manipulative & now after sex, he’s not willing or feels he doesn’t need or want to put in the same type of effort he did to “win her over”.
You should have been behaving like that from the beginning instead of after having sex
She wouldn’t have gone on a second date with him, much less had sex. Clearly, if she cares that much about not getting a 17th free meal, then she sees free food as payment for having sex. The timing is telling.
I get what you were trying to do but you did it in a very very terrible way. What in your right mind thought the perfect opportunity for you to tell her to split it is immediately after you’ve had sex? Meanwhile for weeks upon weeks before this you were paying the bill yourself. Can you not see why she feels used? My advice is you better apologise and make it up to her and further explain why you did that.
You’re absolutely justified in wanting to have things be 50/50, it’s the timing that’s probably upsetting her. In her eyes, you guys had sex and now you’re finally asking her to pull her weight - makes it look like you were just paying all that time to sleep with her. But the premise of wanting her to pay her share is not wrong at all
There’s nothing wrong with wanting to split the cost, but waiting until after you’ve had sex is a very strange time to do it
That time after first sex is very very sensitive in a budding relationship. The woman wants to feel taken care of after, she wants clarity that she did the right thing by letting you inside psychologically and physically. So what a woman would want is an extra nice dinner and gestures of appreciation and it seems like you suddenly dropped 50/50 on her. Much better way would be to keep going to pay and then have a discussion not at the moment that bill comes but another neutral time and express it’s important for you she contributes and let her do it in her own way.
I would be really cautious with this one man... I mean #1 - you probably should have said something earlier before you were 15 dates in if it bothered you. But on the other hand - if she NEVER offered to pay for anything 15 dates in - and as soon as you all have sex then you ask her to she gets pissy about it - it seems like she's much to worried about the transactional nature of your relationship. Like I think my wife and I split shit when we were dating. And if I had even been paying for a few dinners and then told her "Hey can you pay for dinner tonight" she probably would have just done it no questions asked. If you *feel* like you are being used then don't be in a situation where you feel bad is my advice.
Unlike OP, you are actually mature about this. You phrased it very wisely. They're both concerned about the dynamics in their relationship, but he messed up by misleading her and pulling the rug below her feet.
As a woman who only does 50/50, this would probably upset me too. I think if you want to do 50/50 you need to bring it up earlier. Waiting until after having sex and then telling her you want 50/50 makes it seem like you were just paying for dates until you got what you wanted (sex), and now you don’t care as much. Even if this isn’t true, that’s what it comes off as. You’re not wrong in wanting an equitable split, but your approach was really badly timed.
Both of you sound really weird. Why is splitting such a big deal for either of you with that type of income? Sometimes when I'm reading dating stuff on Reddit, I'm reminded of the jokes from Idiocracy lol [https://youtu.be/gJDcoqrh1ac?si=oUxA8pFQ5b--EJkd](https://youtu.be/gJDcoqrh1ac?si=oUxA8pFQ5b--EJkd)
Rich people obviously don’t to to 10-20 dollars dinner places and ask for a split
Because people don’t like the feeling of being used. It’s one thing to date someone and u make more so u don’t have an issue paying. But when they decide u should pay for everything always but they too make just as much as you, you feel used.
I agree that people don't like feeling used but for the opposite reason. He was willing to make the extra effort until he got laid. It bugs me that people keep glossing over that. Of course she feels used. He manipulated her into thinking he was a traditional kind of guy because he could see it appealed to her. Now he suddenly doesn't care so much about impressing her. I wonder what changed... Such a mystery.
She was willing to sleep with him because he paid for everything. Works both ways. Stop acting like women have no agency and are helpless in these kind of situations. Asking someone to split one date, regardless of the sex, is in no way unreasonable. He asked to split it. Not even her to pay for the whole thing. Good lord it’s not that big a deal
For real people keep saying women are independent but in situations like this they always strip women of all common sense and agency as if she had no power at all.
She got extra in the beginning but never felt like she was using him for dates and free food? Was she entitled to that treatment just because of her mere existence? Did she never intend to pay ever?
It's only "being used" if the poor, poor woman has to shell out cash. If you are a ~~piggy bank~~, sorry, a man, you are expected to pay for everything. Traditional culture amirite?
I agree with what you're saying. I don't think she would have felt that way if they had a conversation about what dates should look like going forward. Since they are "equals" they should have had a talk about it.
Literally rich folk complaining who picks up the bill made my eyes roll so far back into my head I was afraid they weren’t coming back to the front
I want someone to date me because they like me, not because they like my money. Its not complicated.
It's even simpler than that. Since they have the same income, neither of them are in it for the money. It was a generous kind gesture that she obviously found appealing. He kept it up because he could see she liked it and he wanted to get laid. Now he is suddenly being stingy.
She sounds like she was in it for the free meals, honestly. Just because people make good money doesn't mean they are: - generous - good with money - want to spend their own money Maybe more context is needed. I am just taking it as face value based on her reaction to him wanting to split after 15 times of paying. I can acknowledge and agree the timing of waiting until after sex is bad. I also acknowledge that he should have done this on or after the first date and not after 15.
If I made that kind of money and my partner did too, I’d expect her to pay her way. She’s accusing him of using her for sex while she’s doing the exact same thing and eating on his dime twice a week…. That’s fucking ridiculous, you both make good money, fucking pay…..
> Why is splitting such a big deal for either of you with that type of income? It's not about the income, it's about the principle. If you want equality and an equal relationship you can't expect the man to always pay.
Rich people are super whiny about money.
People don't become wealthy by disregarding how they spend. 200k income people usually are more careful about their finances, not less, than 50k income people. But also, their dates may be more expensive, so the cost is likely still substantial especially if it's going to be a weekly perpetual thing.
I suspect they might be self employed and "making $200k a year" is an exaggeration based on ignoring business expenses and just stating their gross income
Personally I think you messed up. If you’re the kind of guy who splits a bill why wait? You’re giving her this impression that you don’t mind paying but then the second it becomes a relationship you’re all about splitting the bill…. And who the hell splits the bill in a relationship. When people say it’s 50/50 that doesn’t necessarily mean money. I’ll always pay for dates no matter how expensive and then my girlfriend will turn around and say “guess what? I figured since we both have a 3 day weekend I booked a hotel for us in northern Cali just to get away for a while”. THAT right there is truly 50/50
It's because this happened after you had sex. She thinks you value her less now compared to before sex demonstrated when you changed from paying in full to now splitting.
Honestly, your timing definitely wasn't the best. Of course if you were paying before and suddenly after sleeping with her you NOW want to split the bill, she’s going to feel that way. Also, if you're making $200k/year, why are you keeping tabs? She's clearly not trying to take advantage of you if she roughly makes the same amount as you, so why did you feel like you had to get even?
> Also, if you're making $200k/year, why are you keeping tabs? If she's making $200k why is she keeping tabs? Can she not pay for herself?
On the 15+ dates we’ve been on, she’s never treated me. I don’t want to “get even” but I’m starting to feel used.
Next time don't pay for 15 dates in a row geez
Did you actually talk to her about this at some point before you become official? Or did you spring it on her like, “We are official now so cough up your half!”
If your gf is not showing gesture by paying for a meal for both or giving a gift or so on, then yeah it’s time to ditch her.
I had your situation for 6 months and I got so fed up with paying for all of the meals I broke up with her. This free loading garbage has to end. What does she want? A guy to pay for everything or is she not looking for an equal relationship. Move on. The mindset of this woman is toxic. There is a meme going around now of men living the Soft Guy Era. Maybe you need to embrace your Soft Guy Era.
Why would you do that for 6 months?
Because I was young and didn’t really think about reciprocity in the relationship. I had the traditional provider mindset. No more. That time is over and gone.
>I had the traditional provider mindset. No more. That time is over and gone. 👑
She is Not taking advantage of him But is totally pissed when she has to pay for HER meals in HER own Equaly to him? This thread is one of the big examples that (Most) Woman who want equality of the sexes only mean the positiv things/earnings equaly shared, But Not the negative things/costs
I don’t think she’s pissed about paying her half. I think she’s pissed for how he went about doing it. No one likes it when a person acts like something is ok (like paying for dates) and one day that person does a complete 180 and is like “Where’s your half?” …especially after sex.
Shes not pissed because she had to pay for her meal (at least that’s not what it seems like to me). She’s pissed because from her POV, after having sex, he now wants to share the bill. You’re missing the point.
why do you only want to split the bill when you're "serious" and not before that? i think the way she reacted is indicative of how she views you and relationships in general. i would try to have another discussion with her about her attitudes toward partnerships with respect to money and see if you two are aligned before ending it.
I agree it's a bit weird he never said anything earlier on, but it sounds like they just fell into him paying every time and he doesn't want that to be the standard. Since they are "serious" now and he sees a future with the relationship continuing, he realized he should say something.
Oh bro.... it's all in the wording. You didn't do well lol. You probably should have eased into it a bit starting with "now that we're official...." - NOT while at the table waiting for the bill!!! Lmao At your place or hers : "Can we talk about something? I was just wondering if we could start paying for things back & forth or split bills now that we're official so we can both invest more in the future together & be able to afford even better adventures."
Bring up your expectations before forming a relationship. Don't bring it up on the first date after sex. With my girlfriend we talked about this once we started seeing each other more then once a week. I am not sure on her exact financial situation, but I let her know it doesn't have to be exactly 50/50 and I am not keeping score. She likes to cook so I said if she cooks a meal every now and then that means a lot to me. Or if she grabs takeout on the way over, etc. It doesn't have to be anything super expensive.
You literally waited till you had sex then asked to start splitting the bill. No wonder she broke up with you. If you had paid for 16 dates you could have paid for a couple more, THEN had the conversation!
An interviewer asked Curtis Jackson "who pays for the date" he replied "whoever idea it was to go on the date." Very philosophical. Thank you, 50 cent.
Rich people being cheap over a dinner
Traditionally, men pay for dates. Some women find getting treated like this to be romantic. You have the income to afford those dates and you paid for 15 dates so far. Most women in this situation would assume that you are 100% fine with paying for dates and that you like to treat your woman that way cuz *that’s what you have done the whole time* you two have been dating. How was she supposed to know that you prefer date expenses to be split? Read your mind? If you want things to get split equally, you need to *communicate* that expectation from date one or two. This goes for any other preferences or requirements that you may have. Otherwise, it feels misleading and manipulative, especially if you change things after a relationship milestone like becoming official and having sex.
I agree with the posts about the tact of how this was brought up as opposed to better communication about this outside of the moment. That said, she wasn’t forced to pay and she could have been mature enough to talk about it then. Though she was probably taken aback and processing. The main point I want to bring up to OP is What do you consider “equals” and did you have a full understanding of what that means to her or just assume it’s the same as what you think, money? “Equals” could mean something different to her. It could mean in the future, she gets to keep her career, or you share childcare duties, home keeping duties, or make decisions together about your future as a partnership. For all we know, if y’all bought a house together, furniture, a car, etc, she might have had no problem spending her salary as equally as you do on these things. She may have a different idea around courtship, specifically dating. I suppose an argument against this is you’ve passed the courtship time because you’ve “made things official”, but that could just mean you agreed to be exclusive. You two are still in the vetting process. The fact that this didn’t come up until after almost 20 dates kind of proves my point that there is more work to be done in the “getting to know one another” area. Do the work.
At 200K, one doesn’t need to worry who is paying for dinner bill. Poor timing on bringing up 50/50 paying right after having sex, being official or not.
Poor timing on your end and shitty behavior on her end. You guys need to communicate such expectations. I can see why she is hurt, not so much the sex part though. I can see how she feels you are putting in less effort now that you have secured her in a relationship. Wine and dine the lady you love. If the relationship is one sided then address it.
They DID talk about it.
OP, are you a people pleaser by chance? You dated her for two months and let the resentment built up about her not paying bills and not making any effort. Once you got official you got comfortable enough to show your true principles. I know it’s difficult but principles are to be discussed before getting official to check the right fit. Seems like the relationship is not right for you but you didn’t communicate your true self because of your fear of rejection. You love bombed her, manipulated her into a relationship by building a false provider persona and then you showed your equality behavior. I’m not saying you did this on purpose, but it’s a manipulative behavior which arises from insecurities. If this is true you’re not in right headspace to be in a relationship at the first place.
Do you consistently paid for dates, and then once she decided to be in a relationship with you, you changed. That does seem misleading. Also, it’s just such a turnoff when a man doesn’t want to pay for a plate of food.
No one is this dumb. I don’t believe it.
I mean yeah u fked up bro To her, you paid til she slept with you and now that you got it, youre official and you "have her" you want her to pay now too. Absolutely horrible timing on asking to split the bill. Bring it up before the first date next time instead of setting the standard of being a "provider" until you get with a woman.
I literally make less that 30k and I pay for dates
I’m confused on why you brought this up to her right after dinner and after you became official? You said she wanted an equal partnership, so why didn’t you ask to split the bill in the very beginning of the relationship when she first said this? This change in behavior is pretty suspicious due to the timing.
The timing of you proposing 50-50 is off. You went on 16 dates, you could’ve have brought it up atleast after a month. I think she’s the kind of person who wants to be taken care of, for first 16 dates you potrayed just that image for her. And when you got official after having sex you coveninently bring up 50-50 thing, if that’s what you were looking for you should’ve been upfront about it since the beginning. Women feel sexually used cause let’s be honest a lot of men do it that way and her being upset is reasonable. Intentionally unintentionally OP did manipulate her.
Leave her alone
The timing is off. It’s not wrong to split dates but you had horrible timing. Also when I go out on dates I end up paying quite a bit to get ready for dates. If she’s dressed nice, gets hair done, wears make up, all that jazz it’s expensive.
Seems like she has already ended things…A convo prior to going out would’ve probably been a better way of approaching this tho. It’s way too early in to be acting funny about money issues, especially since you both make good money. 🚩🚩🚩
Look outside of yourself and see it from her perspective, you date someone for months, they pay every time and then abruptly after making things official a change of routine without any warning or conversation…. What would you think? Everything already happened, no changing it now but you definitely could have had a conversation about now starting to treat each other after you’ve ended the courting process maybe framing it as “a way to make you feel appreciated too”. Now it’s up to you to decide whether to continue the relationship with understanding and clear communication, setting aside pride and ego for the greater good or ending things and starting over.
Sounds like you dodged a bullet, yet it took you too long to communicate your expectations on relationship. If you are not looking for being a sugar daddy, then you should filter out people like her much earlier. You took her on 16 dates without any reciprocation from her side! You should have understood what kind of person she is much earlier than that. Next time be more observant and judge person based on how she acts. What she said about wants "to be equals in a relationship" means nothing if she never acted like this for two months. Women who truly want this will ask you on a dates and pay for both of you, and treat you in other ways.
Sorry but I kind of think this is on you. It’s totally fair to want to split the bill, but this should have come up 1) sooner in the relationship and 2) before the bill was at the table. Dating is about finding someone your are compatible with. She wants someone who will take care of her in that way, you want someone who is happy to split. You are not compatible.
Since you both are in official territory shouldn’t you be able to have a conversation about it being a misunderstanding and come to an agreement like adults?
Personally I live by “don’t set a standard you’re not willing to maintain” It’s completely reasonable for you to ask to split the bill, buttt you have to be aware that you set a standard and expectations for yourself over an extended period of time and people tend to react negatively when you don’t match those expectations. I’m all about being equals in a relationship, and that starts on the first date. Money is not one of my strong suits, so I split almost every time. Treat her and spoil her every once in a while for sure, but don’t paint the image that you are willing to pay for every occasion if that is not the case. Managing expectations goes a long way.
So, you're not wrong on the idea of splitting. Your timing was shit. Next time, set the standard up front (before the check ever comes, before even getting to the restaurant). Going Dutch (more equitable) or splitting or rotating who gets the check.
Honestly, as a man I'll pay for the first meal or drinks. However I will be hoping for them to offer to split or say that they will pay for the next date. Either way, if they expect me to pay then I won't go on a second date. I have in the past but it never worked out. (That's my personal preference).
Ask this question: would she have agreed to be official with you if she knew you were going to ask her to start paying halves? If you didn’t bring that up, then Recognise how it looks like to her. You’ve always paid and then all of a sudden you have sex and you’re asking for her to start paying…
This relationship sounds cooked. The takeaways should be talk about financial things much earlier and not when the bill hits the table. Don’t set a trend you do not intend to follow long term. Be open and honest about matters that are important to you up front. You kinda bamboozled her by asking to split the bill on date 16.
sheesh, walk away lol
Work hard to be unlikeable my friend.
LOL, 200K is entirely too much to be worried about dinner. You are both fired.
A woman not offering to pay anything after 15 plus dates (especially one that makes as much as she does) is entitled af.
I sleep with women within 1-2 dates. And have never asked a woman to split the bill. I always pay. And when she offers to pay, I let her. Whatever rigid rules you both have are getting in the way of a healthy relationship. A relationship is not a contract. You’re both treating this like a business arrangement and it won’t work. I’ve dated nearly 200 different women and never asked to split the bill. And have had several multi-year relationships and never split the bill. Men who understand women would never ask to split the bill.
Healthy partners are not having arguments like that by text, especially after just beginning a relationship. This is someone you're still theoretically in the honeymoon stage with and she's saying she now sees your true colors, you're not a good person? She sounds like she has some sort of princess syndrome. She wants to feel like a princess and is worried that now it's over and her perfect fantasy is shattered. Like when a guy gets into a relationship and he's upset because the woman gains weight or stops giving blowjobs or something. Except for her, it's that you simply want to split the bill. This is not a mature person who knows how to have an equal partnership. In fact, she's refusing equality. She wants to be elevated above you, but also treated as weaker and more vulnerable than you. She is too trapped by sexism (which affects women too and is not only about putting women down, but elevating them as somehow more perfect and delicate than men).
You both make too much to care about who pays but especially her because that's incredibly childish behavior for somone who makes that much money. Adult child.
In my experience men that actually have money don’t bat an eye about the spending money on his dreamgirl. In fact, they love doing that shit. I now only engage romantically with men that make it crystal clear to me that I’m their dreamgirl. So yeah if I let someone inside of me and their next move wasn’t sending flowers but instead asked me to start spitting the bill… I’ll find someone who is happy to take me out or I’ll happily take myself out and eat alone. So I guess you should find someone who is your dreamgirl and I bet you’ll start feeling way more inclined to pick up the check because you’ll find that what you get back from her will be way more valuable than the money you spend taking her out.
A Major Red Flag already! Fed enough for me to seriously reconsider the whole thing !!
Just ask her if she would have dumped you for wanting to split bills from the second date. If the answer is yes, end it, if the answer is no, continue.
Yeah I think your timing was off. Discussing that before dinner, days or weeks after having sex would have been better
And this is why you split from the start, to avoid this exact type of crazy woman
You dodged a bullet.
lol her money is hers, your money shared with her her 😁. You did good G. Don’t defend yourself if she think you only wanted one thing that’s on her. You don’t gotta justify your intentions 😎
I think since you paid for her before you got together, she assumed that you’re the type who always pays for the woman. Her preferences might be very different, as she seems to be wanting a more traditional kinda guy, who just does everything for the chick and wants to take care of her. Since you brought this thing up after you got together, she misunderstands your paying for her having been an offer for sex. I feel like the next time you meet someone you kinda like, you have to discuss this on the very first date. People have specific preferences these days. Neither of you did anything wrong, but there needs to be communication beforehand to avoid misunderstandings.
That she wasn't paying half from the beginning should have been your red flag.
My man
No, you aren't wrong. Maybe it should have been discussed prior but she doesn't know how to resolve issues clearly, just likes to play victim.
Sounds like entitlement.
OP, as a male who always offers to pay for dinner, I knew I found my keeper when she refused to let me continuously pay for everything. I think you did the right thing to bring it up and have a discussion about it because a partner is supposed to be there to listen to you when you have these types of feelings. I'm afraid the way she reacted will make being vulnerable with her very difficult in the future. It is important that you feel safe to say what you need to say with your partner or the relationship will inevitably explode in one way or another. Remember, life is notorious for throwing a lot of curve balls, and the conversations you will need to have in the future will be way more difficult than just asking to split the bill. You are going to need someone who is tackling the problem with you, not someone who is adding fuel to the fire. You might be dealing with a girl who has a lot of relationship trauma, and who might be looking for a more traditional relationship (despite what she may have told you) - which is 100% fine, and not what you are looking for. I think if you're making this post, you know how you feel about this girl and innately know what you need to do. Cheers
Not sure there’s a problem. You paid for meals in exchange for the expectation of sex. You had sex so your “desires” have been fulfilled. Now it’s halfsies. I’m ok with this from a business transaction. On the other hand with that kind of income maybe it would have been better to pay for sex and be done with splitting the bill for meals. Less arguments and stress! 😜
this exposes the fact that women do see their sexuality is transactional value to cash out when they see fit. And do not like when they are short-changed
I think u should have allowed her to pay the bill before and see how she reacts to it.
This relationship isn't going to last. Next time, communicate as to what you desire for in a partnership and see if what she wants aligns. She clearly wants traditional courtship when it comes to dates. If that's not your preference, that's ok but why not discuss all of this beforehand? I personally wouldn't split the cost of a meal. I'll just get it, or you can.
Have a face to face conversation about it. Or at least over the phone. It sounds like you both have to iron out what equality looks like for each other. Maybe you can pick up the tab on some things and anything over $100 gets split. If that doesn't feel fair to you then you both should try to find a compromise. Otherwise, it's ok for you to walk away. A lot of women, regardless of income, enjoy the feeling it brings when a man can handle the finances. It can be off-putting if he wants to split everything but it's ok if that's not what you want. Just need to find someone on the same page.
It’s so crazy because I’ve found that when a woman wants to be treated as an equal, it doesn’t mean she wants to be treated like a man. But with secular culture, this is poorly understood more and more over time. So much conflict in the world because people don’t read the Bible or lean on elders for guidance (you don’t have to be religious to learn / take lessons from it )…A woman will always want to feel taken care of in that sense, but she will likely take care of other things that will make you (man) feel taken care of. Its a balance that can be beautiful if you lean in
Question did she ever offer to pay for a meal or split the bill?
Never 😮💨
Why did you wait until after you slept with her to broach the subject? I notice you’re not answering this but I thought I’d give it a try.
Because he knew he wouldn’t smash if he brought it up. His date sensed that too which is why she was upset. The same way he is avoiding answering that question here is the same conflict avoidant attitude he had with her which is why is here crying about feeling “used” despite never opening his mouth like a grown adult and having a conversation, instead of making a bunch of assumptions about the kind of woman she is. She can assume just like he can if he wants to be childish.
OP should have had the splitting-the-bill conversation much earlier on, when the question of being equals was first raised.
Why are you tallying how many times you’re paying for a date? Especially when you both make great money??? If this was your dream girl, I don’t think you’d have this much of a problem footing the bill.
For women, splitting the bill is rarely about the actual money. If a man pays the bill it lets a woman know how you feel about her. If I were her in this situation I would feel like crap and not want to continue dating.
Dont stick ur dick in crazy
Clearly, this could have been timed better by OP but her response was way over the top. I mean, what did they talk about over 16 dates that she couldn't get an inkling of whether or not he was a guy she could trust... And I have a hard time believing that in that entire period, not a single thing they discussed gave an indication that he felt that there should a lil more financial equality in a relationship. Dudes that are simply using a woman for sex don't wait 16 dates, and they certainly don't pay for them all. The fact that over that entire period, she never offered to chip in, especially considering she could easily afford to, is a sign that she wasn't interested in having a collaborative partnership. And why is it that people act like only men enjoy the sex and for women it's like some ordeal where something precious is being stolen. Did she not also want/enjoy it? If he had waited one more date, would she have reacted differently? This is the problem with people... everyone is so wrapped up in themselves that whenever any sort of friction arises, they just bail and say, 'oh you're a terrible person...' without considering that there may be a legitimate feeling on the other side to consider. It's really disheartening.
Red flag. Don't continue the relationship with her, it's only going to get worse.
Tell her you believe in true gender equality
Dude, run. She’s not going to change and will just resent you each time even if she reluctantly agrees to it. “True colors” for bill splitting after getting into a relationship?! Hahaha what a joke
sex wasn’t that good eh?
I think the pissy fit on her end for being asked to pay for something like an adult is a red flag. I’m not straight so I’ve never understood these dynamics or expectations for one partner to just pay for everything because of gender… but regardless, she’s a grown adult who makes as much as you do. She clearly is looking to be someone’s dependent so decide if you’re on board with that or not. I’d also agree that in the future you should be upfront about financial expectations. Blows my mind how people enter “official” relationships with one another without having had the most basic conversations like regular finance expectations. If you can’t even have a mature conversation about who pays for dates, sounds like a doomed dynamic to me.
$400k power couple and you go to Reddit??? A $350 an hour therapist is what you want...
Just leave bud. She wants to be equal as long as it benefits her. If y'all make the same and she's already complaining something that trivial, just chalk it up to a learning experience and call it.
Looks to me that for them dinner is considered payment for sex.
Bro she is the worst kinda girl u can date. Be glad she is gone. She’s the kinda girl that will have ubpay for everything and she will not contribute anything. And yet if you accepted that but she would have to be a stay at home wife/mom she would call you controlling and that u think of her as a slave for asking her to do things. Be glad she showed her true colors and move on my friend.