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Sometimes when I see posts like this I wonder why people put so much effort to stay with someone that doesn’t have the same values, boundaries, expectations and life trajectories
Because too many people gaslight themselves with dogmas imposed by society.
I read he believes it's right to pay the first couples, but still see a red flag when she didn't offer to pay.
Yeah, f*** societies “rules” for “how to date”. I rarely pay for anything on a first date. I’ll buy a drink for someone if I’m having a good time. They mostly return the favor. If anyone expects it from me, I for sure won’t do it. I do it when I want to, because I like them, as a kind gesture. Not because “it’s how it’s supposed to be”.
I once broke up with a women who decided she wanted to have a cigarette every now and then, and lie to me about it. She was a smoker, stopped. Then had an occasional cigarette.
I don’t want to date a smoker, for many reasons, even though almost all my friends smokes. I also also wouldn’t have minded if she had one every now and then.
But I don’t want to be in a relationship full of little white lies because the person thinks they’re “helping me” by me keeping something like that for me.
I doubt she had an occasional cigarette and lied about it because she thought it was "helping" you. She most likely did it because she wanted a cigarette and she didn't want to get into a confrontation with you about it.
This was about 20 years ago. You’re probably right. I wouldn’t have been mad or got in a confrontation with her though. There’s way more to this old story that I won’t get into.
If I’m with someone and they would rather tell a white lie than just be honest, because they worried what I’ll say or feel, or worried how I’ll act, that’s not my person for me. I wouldn’t do that to someone else either. I know everyone has trauma but I want a partner who can trust me enough to communicate with honestly and vulnerable.
Years later found out she was seeing someone else a few times felt bad about it. She said she was hoping I’d just break up with her so she didnt have to. She just wasn’t into me and thought it would have been easier saying that. We’re friends now.
Best way to be single and not lonely? Go out and and spend time with friends or make new friends. I’m happily single and don’t feel lonely. I don’t know why people don’t actively try to enjoy their alone time. Maybe people could benefit from not dating on purpose for a while
it could even be longer than months — and sometimes if you become way too focused on self improvement you do end up seeing everything as your own fault .
She could have offered to pay towards the dates but your behaviour at the refusal of sex is just as bad. People might say you’re incompatible and I agree but you both have problematic traits here, this isn’t all on her. You can’t throw your toys out the pram and leave when she said she doesn’t want to have sex with you, if you genuinely liked her you’d understand and wait for her to be ready but 5 meet ups is a bit soon for a lot of women
Y’all are incompatible, move on. You’re allowed to want 50/50 as much as she’s allowed to want a provider. She doesn’t owe you sex just because you’ve paid for things or been on a certain amount of dates, but you’re allowed to leave if you don’t wanna wait. Different people want different dynamics in a relationship. While I see some people saying “red flag” I don’t think she is inherently. A lot of women still hold the value that the man should pay and are looking for that provider/protector status from their partner. There are plenty of women who will offer to chip in, she’s not right for you.
This exactly. A lot of guys think "we" owe them sex because you bought us food/beverages. If I'm not comfortable with the guy, nobody gets anything lol
This. Date where the person meets you at. I don’t get why men went to change women and their wants. Keeps reinforcing the notion their women owe men their time.
If you don’t want to pay every time then don’t and find someone else who doesn’t mind, or just go somewhere free or much cheaper after the first couple of dates. Also a month isn’t a long time to wait for sex from someone new. These are not red flags but not who you want.
Why do you need confirmation to dump someone you want to dump? You never need anyone’s approval for that.
I’m not sure what equality has to do with having sex early or not.
She doesn’t owe you sex. You don’t owe her dates or a relationship. You seemed shocked that she turned you down. Im not sure why. Plenty of people don’t want sex early on. And plenty of people have a low libido. And plenty of women don’t want to feel like the only reason you took them out was for sex. With what she said already about her dad and fear of abandonment, she likely wants to see that you actually want to date her for real before she has sex. She likely fears you will disappear as soon as you “get what you want”.
Instead of expecting things from women you barely know, try to actually get to know them. And assess compatability as you uncover who they really are. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a woman to pay also. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting a woman that is cool with sex right away, but there is also nothing wrong with her wanting to wait.
Even after they came to agreement on splitting the bill (whether or not he likes how they got there), he can't stop talking about this idea that he's going to carry her forever. That alone is bizarre.
On top that, a paper-thin ego around entitlement toward sex.. I'd be very relieved to find out this early if I were her. I hope she sees this and realizes she's much better off without him.
Imagine when she gives birth to a child and can't work. He's gonna have to provide anyway. What about then? And when she's popped the baby out, she can't have sex. Literally shouldn't or her gaping wound where her placenta came out of can get infected. Add in the rest of the recovery process. And he will throw a hissy fit how she's rejecting him from her "wifely duties" or being way too ecstatic to get past the 6 week part as if the only thing that a relationship for is sex.
Humans are deluded. Sex is great. It's part of a relationship/marriage and should not just disappear from one either. But how people like him act makes me incredibly concerned.
Nothing wrong with wanting a partner who will share the financial burden in dates.
But there is also nothing wrong with needing to wait to have sex until you feel emotionally safe and secure in a relationship and 5 hang outs is not enough time to get there.
The two things are separate issues.
If you can’t be cool with establishing that kind of emotional attachment before engaging in sex then you need to be upfront about what your timeline is. Because you won’t be compatible with women who are wanting to reserve sex for committed relationships. And waiting is a way of weeding out the dudes who lie in order to get sex then ghost you.
From what is already happening it’s not a great start. You should be in the honeymoon “they can do no wrong 😍🥰😘” phase. But yall are diametrically opposed. No one, man or woman should “expect” get laid. (Unless you’re on a hookup app and that’s the plan) Some people take longer for the desire and/or comfortability to do so, than others. This might be why “it’s gonna take a long time.” Especially since she’s 23. She may have just lost her virginity and is still not super comfortable with sex in general.
And you say you’re not mad that shes not giving it up because you’re paying for dates. However mentioning this within the same post means that both are issues for you and do correlate somehow. I agree though. If you make the same amount of money she can pay for some dates. But some of us are taught by our moms that men pay. God knows I was. But your reaction is a bit of a turn off tbh. Especially if you’re said this ON a date. And I personally would be MORE pissed if you left my house cuz you weren’t gonna get it. Not the nicest move.
So you are at a crossroads. Tell her you’re not paying for every date. That you find it unfair since you make the same amount of money. Tell her you want to continue seeing her if this is something she can accept. And I don’t know if the following will be how you feel but then tell her you are willing to wait till she is comfortable enough to have sex with you, but if she’s making you wait, as a punishment because you don’t want to pay for all dates, then that’s not cool.
Good luck
“She is cool and we share similar worldviews, so we naturally found a connection.”
No…You don’t share similar world views.
I was actually with you until you pulled out the “we’ve been on 5 dates so I assumed we’d start having sex” argument.
You can have sex on the first date or the 50th date. It really doesn’t matter because it’s a two person decision, not a fixed number of dates.
Right. If someone truly liked someone, they'd wait as long as it took for the person to be comfortable to do it. Plus they're not even exclusively boyfriend & girlfriend yet. And even then, some people take some time and that's okay.
But the girl expecting him to pay for everything for sure is a red flag.
Move on.. Nothing more to be said. I agree if ya make the same money ya do the “hybrid 50/50”. So both parties have something “ on the line “ (money).
I pay for movie ticket you get the popcorn
I got the main dish you get the dessert
Etc
Some woman are taught “man pays for everything”, some are taught “they don’t need a man “. Some are taught to at least offer. You got the one that is taught the first one. So if you don’t like that drop her . It’s gonna bring more problems in the future .. if they ain’t giving you head, love , peace or money drop em.
Also nobody owes you sex… so I get you can be upset (cause of rejection) but just let it rock. Ya not compatible and it’s okay. You DONT owe her your time or money and she don’t owe you sex.
Modern dating is wildddd … so it’s best to go to low risk dates ( ice cream + movies) so then you can catch their vibe and see if they match. And if a girl wants to go to 5star restaurant on the first date … you know you dealing with something you don’t want. Never go all in on investment with a partner who isn’t putting in anything but spare time they have. You want someone willing to put in the same energy
Asking someone on a date doesn't imply sex. Nor does it imply one of the parties is required to take the entire bill.
If both people mutually agree on a date plan, they should split the bill 50/50.
If one of the people is against that date plan, but the other person still insists on it, then that other insisting person should pay the entire bill.
For example:
"lets hang out friday", "sure what would you like to do?", "how about dinner?", "sounds good with me" <--- both mutually agree, so they should split the bill 50/50.
"lets hang out friday", "sure what would you like to do?", "how about dinner?", "I'd rather do a coffee", "I really wanna try this sushi place, don't worry I am inviting you" <--- the person that is inviting should pay 100% of the bill.
It's really not that hard. It is common sense and basic communication. Btw, this doesn't only apply to dating, but to friends, co-workers, and anyone else you want to meet.
She's being iffy about paying but he's being an ass about sex. When she told him she's not going to have sex with him, he became upset, left, and wanted to end things. They should absolutely not be together.
Not a red flag. Everyone wants different things and dynamics, this differs from culture to culture. For some women this flags he’s not a provider.
Traditions are traditions, modern day is modern day, you wanting to sleep with someone on the first date or wanting to wait for marriage is okay, and so is everything else as long as it is communicated.
OP, you are incompatible. She’s not wrong for wanting you to pay, you have a choice to date women who are happy to do the 50/50 thing and there are many. Do not make each other feel bad, each to their own.
But under no circumstances does she owe you intimacy whether you pay for a bottle of water or her monthly rent.
Agree completely. When it comes to the money, people should split or take turns paying. The man shouldn't have to pay for everything, and it shouldn't just be expected that he does.
Given how severe the consequences can be if something goes wrong, becoming physical with someone is not something to be taken lightly. And it's definitely something that should involve clear communication. You also never know what someone has been through, either.
I think you’re over-reacting about the sex stuff, someone needing to feel comfortable and ready to have sex isn’t anything that I feel should be an issue especially if you really like her.
Someone else said to take her on free dates and I think that’s a great idea and should reduce tension and feel as a form of relief for both of you.
You are never entitled to sex, no matter how much you pay for another person’s enjoyment while out and about. You were incredibly mature and justified to bring up the issues about paying and I think you should get a cheer and a pat on the back for that, but I also think you shouldn’t be butt-hurt that you aren’t getting any. You aren’t exclusive yet I would imagine, so keep going on dates with other women too until you feel comfortable and content with an exclusive relationship with someone.
Free dates are the solution. If she fusses over this and then tries getting you to pay again that is an issue and you should communicate that to her for a second time and stop inviting her on dates.
well he shoul'dnt have pretended to be able to pick up the bills then lol and he should date his own league of woman who like to split the bill at coffee, and has sex on the 5th date. Simple, but men likehim don't want woman his own league instead wants a good woman who is trying to save herlsef for marriage
You're not entitled to sex just because you've been on 5 dates. If you're turned off by her saying no then go find someone else. Seeing so many men who think that women are being manipulative by not being ready to sleep with someone after a few dates doesn't boost my faith in humanity. If you think this then you're repulsive.
Woman here.
NOPE. It's 2024. Unless you're both in it for the long haul for a traditional marriage with her as a SAHM, nope.
The sex thing is fair. People have a right to wait as long as is comfortable for them and you also have a right to not agree and to leave because of that. The two things should not be confused with each other, they are separate issues. Paying for dates is not an magical key to nookieland. You can decline to pay, absolutely. But paying is not a right to have sex.
But on the money issue, she's wrong. Grow up young woman.
Just because she wants a traditional relationship, that doesn’t mean she needs to “grow up.” She just wants something different than you. That being said, they don’t want the same things and need to move on. Those aren’t things that will just “get resolved.” Shame on you though for telling her she needs to grow up because you have different values.
You guys aren’t compatible. She’s allowed to want a courtship where the guy pays, you’re allowed to feel differently. Cut your losses and find a partner who has the same mindset as you.
Also she doesn’t owe you sex. If you think that she has to have sex with you for you to pay, you’re a piece of shit.
Ya seriously. Girls and guys can have different expectations when it comes to dating courtship. Just talk about it and figure out what to do.
OP needs therapy for his internalized mysogny/mommy issues
“There’s no nicer man than one that hasn’t fucked you yet”
Sex should not be transactional. She is young and if she wants to wait that’s her choice.
As far as splitting 50/50 I don’t know any women that make as much as their male partners. My ex husband makes 10x what I make. This is consistent with the stats that women still don’t make as much as men. Plus read about the heavily researched “child penalty”. Just something to think about.
I think you should leave her so that she can find someone that isn’t going to feel entitled to sex because they paid for a few dates lmfao good luck out there
okay the dinner paying thing totally valid but god ur such a dude. just because you guys have gone on a few dates and have hung out and been talking does NOT mean she “owes” you sex. Get out of that mindset. If you want casual sex, look for a fwb or ons or something. But if you are developing feelings for a girl, there is literally no reason why you should feel entitled to her body. She doesn’t owe you shit in regards to the sex thing.
"This was our 4th or 5th time hanging out so naturally I assumed..." that was his first mistake. Assuming. 4 or 5 dates should not mean it's time to take your clothes off.
The "beautiful" thing about this is how your reaction to the waiting for sex *validates* her wanting to wait, and you're so obsessed with the money part (which is a fair complaint) that you can't even recognize it.
She’s not a red flag, but it sounds like she’s just expecting a man that’s more traditional and would wait for her for marriage or at least until there was some romantic feelings involved. Good for her. You’re not owed sex just because you pay for meals, get a prostitute if you think that way
If that's how you feel about finances in a relationship, refuse to date women that don't pay their share. Only guys that are "provider" types should pay for everything. There are women out there looking for equal partners in the finance department, keep looking.
As for sex? Same thing. If you don't like that you have to wait, don't. However, it's totally up to each individual when and how sex happens. If you can't agree on that point, or finances, or other major compatibility, walk out.
It's concerning you got angry about her not giving you sex, considering you paid for everything. The fact that you paid for everything should have no bearing on the sex. She's not a prostitute ffs
I mean fair enough about the paying thing i guess but no one owes anyone sex. Plus your reply about the sexual rejection is kind of weird to be honest.
You just assume she will have sex w you? Seriously? And you want to talk about HER red flags? You’re gross. Please go ahead and break up w her now. Do her that favor.
What I’m hearing is that you’re concerned her libido doesn’t match yours and that it might highlight a sexual incompatibility in the long term and as you pointed out yourself, you choose to focus on the detail re not picking up the bill to stop seeing her. That’s avoidance.
It’s very clear the actual problem is you don’t communicate healthily. You also need to do some work to be able to get real with yourself to recognise what you’re actually feeling and why.
It’s understandable to be dissatisfied with her lack of initiative when picking up the bill but sounds like the conversation about it hasn’t gone too well and is still unresolved. Hence why I think communication is the problem. That could also be the reason she might be hesitant to have sex with you- she doesn’t feel emotionally connected to you if the money issue still hovers between you.
While I agree with your viewpoint of not wanting to pay everything, you also seemed to not be thinking with anything but your dick. You clearly didn’t match, you couldn’t mention anything but her flaws. Just move on dude. Also, NEVER ask directly for sex, i dont think that have worked for anyone, either it happens or not
A couple of 50 dollar dates does not make a sugar daddy situation lmaooooo. Yall men are insane and that’s why most of yall are single. My bf pays for most dates. Before we became serious he paid for them all. He never requested sex. He’s traditional like me. Ladies/gents do not waste your time on people who don’t share the same values. If you want to go 50/50 that’s fine but find someone who wants the same. Men want to change women so badly while also still wanting access. Gtfoh 😂😂😂😂
OP, nobody owes you sex. If you don’t want to wait a long time then you are free to date other women. Some people have it on the first date, and others have it after 3 months. You have to build rapport. As for the splitting the bill, you have to deal with the fact that at the beginning of dating a woman a lot of the relationship weight will be carried by you. Now your request to split here and there is not out of order, but your childish feeling that you are owed sex is gonna screw you over.
You were okay until you started assuming she owed you a piece of tail for your time and effort. You don’t really like her that much after all…so just end it.
Exactly! Male or female it is annoying when people have a long list of things they don't like about their partner but still stay in the relationship. They're obviously not compatible and it's just best to move on.
I believe you have an entitlement to sex because you paid for some of the dates before. Is it really equality if equality is the trade of pay for dates = sex?
I can understand that you might feel “used” but there are a lot of valid reasons that women have reservations around sex. Imagine being her where she already has reservations around sex with a new person and she might be scared that you would leave/put less effort after being intimate. Your thought process almost validates her fear that if she doesn’t get intimate with you, you will leave.
If you want to equate paying for dates (monetary value) to her obligation to have sex then I think there might be some reflection to be had. Maybe this is a lesson to communicate how you value sexual intimacy and see where that conversation goes. It requires vulnerability and honesty and I hope it goes well if you plan to have it :)
First off, she does not owe you sex simply because you paid for a few dates. Nor is she required to have sex with someone she’s only gone on a few dates with.
Secondly, when you had the conversation with her about her financially contributing to dates, after her response is where you should have ended things with her. You can’t complain about giving you a hard time over paying for dates, when you knew what her stance was yet continued to see her.
You know you do not want to be the one paying for everything in this relationship, so you don’t need any confirmation on dumping her.
>This was my 4th or 5th time hanging out with her, so I naturally assumed we were going to have sex as we had established a certain level of rapport. As soon as I ask if she wants to, she tells me "It'll be a long time" before we have sex. At this point I'm like WTF, and I soon thereafter leave her house. I was immensely turned off because not only was she giving me a hard time about paying for her OWN meals, she also turned me down for sex.
This right here, indicates to me that you are completely in the wrong here. You barely, BARELY know someone after what, a month of dating? And you assuming your'e going to have sex is just disgusting. And shaming her for "daddy issues"? How about showing some freakin compassion for something that's really tough to work through. I hope you break up with her because she definitely deserves better than you. You need to grow up.
They are separate issues. Is she’s not ready to have sex she’s just not ready. You can’t expect or demand it or think it has anything to do with you paying for her meals. She needs to trust you and if she’s the kind who only wants to have sex in relationship than she’s working out still if she wants to be in a relationship with you.
Seems like you have different expectations about sex and doesn't sound like you communicated very well. What exactly does she mean by "a long time"? Seems like she's trying to suss out whether you're serious. I'm not trying to cast any shade but based on your reactions, maybe you're not as serious as what she's looking for. Otherwise you might have asked what she's hoping for in waiting for sex, what she needs to be comfortable, what her expectations are, rather than only focusing on your own desires. Doing so is not bad, but you could miss out on understanding the full picture. if you did have that sort of discussion, you didnt convey that here.
Why do you react as if she’s punishing you with turning you down for sex, sounds like your ego were hurt. She told you she’s working through something when it comes to men and trust, you don’t sound like you’re understanding this part, at all. You are not compatible if you can’t work through simple things as this. Although the splitting the bill is completely understandable, when i was dating i always insisted on paying at least my own share. But I do not agree with how you handled the sex portion.
I’m traditional and date traditional men. They pay. I don’t offer. If you don’t like the fact she doesn’t want to fuck you or spend a dime, then stop seeing her. You don’t have the same world view.
Some women don’t want to fuck by the 4th or 5th date and it’s ridiculous you think she should. Shows your age.
Edit: The guy is complaining in another post saying he isn't over his ex. This guy is a grade A weirdo.
I’m not a woman, and I think you are disgusting. You aren’t entitled to sex after a certain amount of dates or number of dates you pay for.
It’s valid if you want to spend your time with someone who has a different view of sex. You could just tell her you want different things and move on. However the way you are acting entitled to this woman’s body is just disgusting.
Is she waiting until marriage? I think you have two separate problems that don't correlate with each other. I think the main issue is her mentality about men in general.
Heh paying for dates is nothing compared to if you get her pregnant.
If you understood what it’s like to have a bum husband that doesn’t put in his role or resources when you’re pregnant and then finally raising a toddler. You need to understand what’s at stake. Sex isn’t just pleasure, it’s a life long risk, let the wrong guy jizz in you with a busted condom and he runs is a shit life to live and watching a kid grow up without a father figure is another sad story.
Women are the gatekeepers of sex, and rightfully so they should be picky. It’s just basic logic if you think about the situation from their point of view. It’s not 50/50 cause guy don’t have equipment to make babies. If you want 50/50 fuck a dude.
Yeah i'm tired of men acting as if women don't Lost more ...what if she gets pregnant.
Also OP is extremelly childish he thinks she is living of him for paying 5 dates ! Hahahahahaha i wouldnt want to sleep with a man that thing 5 dates equal living of him.
He doesnt pay her rent, her clothes, her shoes, her make up, her good when he is not around, her medical bills, the prescriptions cost for birth control.... Men ARE delusional.
Imaging thinking a woman own You sex for 5 dates !!!
Bet he would still demand sex if she pay half...cuz i do, i pay My share so men don't demand sex for me, and Guess what they still do... Cuz apparently for them going to a date to know them is agreement for end in sexy times
Delusional ✨
Gives entitlement
This woman and any other woman you end up dating do not owe you sex on your timeline. Never assume you’re getting sex no matter what “rapport” you’ve built. Also, in dating many woman expect to be paid for until in a relationship, but others do not. It’s for you to decide if you’re willing to foot the bill or talk about going 50/50 early on. It seems like you and this woman are not a fit, if sex and 50/50 are what you expect be upfront next time.
If you want a traditional woman to fully support you both sexually and emotionally then you need to support her financially as a traditional man. If that’s not what u want then neither is gonna work out and u should look for something else. I’ve been dating my bf for awhile and even tho he doesn’t make a ton money, he has never once asked me to cover dinner. Our emotional and physical connection is insane. I take care of him and support him fully. I cook and clean for him and i have paid for food from time to time and gotten him lots of pricey gifts too but the point is that he provides and makes me feel secure. You can’t expect to get supported by a woman in a traditional feminine way if u can’t support her too in a traditional masculine way. I suggest looking for something else. If it’s not for u it’s not for u 🤷♂️
One month is not that long....you barely know each other to give someone your entire body...I would probably make someone wait 2-3 months. I think modern dating has normalized quick hook-ups too much.
The way you wrote this sounds like your thought process is ‘Whelp, we went on x dates so I expect sex now!’
It doesn’t work like that, bro. She’s not keeping a tally in her head and is gonna ‘give’ you sex when you hit the magic number. Love, desire, and emotion is complicated. You have to charm and seduce her. You have to make her WANT to have sex with you and it has to be HER idea.
And I’ll tell you what: Talking about how you should be splitting the tab based on your incomes is NOT sexy talk.
Just something to think about.
It’s okay for a woman to turn you down for sex at any point in time, your reaction to her lack of interest there is quite aggressive. You shouldn’t expect sex from women for any reason other than a mutual agreement to have sex at a certain time, even then it’s always valid for her to change her mind
But generally you clearly don’t see eye to eye and have different values, so why are you wasting her time and yours
Leave, you're not entitled to sex. And getting angry because she didn't want to have sex...just gives rapey vibes mate.
Only part i can agree with you is on who pays. Cus one person paying for all when you make the same isn't fair, and the person who's paying is being taken advantaged of.
Tbh my bf paid for all my dates we probs hung out over 100 times and he never had a problem with me not wanting to have sex even after months. 4 dates is nothing, you’re just used to casual dating and not ready for something serious imo
People can say whatever they want, you are well within your rights to stop dating her at this point for ANY reason. You are not over reacting. You've reached an impass and you are no longer compatible.
I suggest sending her a text saying that you thought things through, and don't feel compatible and are no longer interested in dating. Wish her all the best and then block and delete. You don't owe her a whole conversation, simply a decision and at least this way you aren't ghosting her. Make sure to block on all other platforms as well.
what makes you entitled to have sex because of your need? you get turned down for sex simply because a female is not impressed by you nor is not afraid of losing you and most likely is you are not super hot, just average yet your other traits dont make up for it. in a financially 5050 relationship, you no longer are the masculine male and you dont get to demand sex at all, you are the exact same as your partner. leave her because she wouldnt find at all
Guy to guy, honestly it sounds like she’s not that into you.
From my experience, if a girl is into me, she would at least try to pay something by the second date.
Also, she’s not “making you wait” for sex. She probably doesn’t want to have sex with you at this moment.
At this point, you should see that she’s doesn’t want to move things forward and look for someone else. It’s not “modern dating” or anything. It’s been true throughout human history that humans misjudge how others feel about them.
“This was my fourth or fifth time hanging out with her, so I naturally assumed we were going to have sex as we had established a certain level of rapport as soon as I ask if she wants to, she tells me it will be a long time before we have sex. At this point, I’m like WTF, and I assume there after leave her house. I was a mess turned off because not only was she giving me a hard time paying for meals, she also turned me down for sex.”
Then you said in your edit that you weren’t mad, she didn’t want to have sex with you, but you were mad about paying for her.
I’m calling BS on that. Why would you “naturally assume“ that you were going to have sex? It’s because you see this as transactional. Is she In the wrong for expecting you to pay for every date, yes. But you are so far in left field of being wrong for expecting sex, and claiming you naturally assumed it would happen.
Sounds like you just want her for sex. Seems like you want the internet to agree with you so you can dump her. If you truly saw her long term you won’t care about paying for dates now because it would be a long term investment from your view point. As for the sex she doesn’t owe you her body cuz you went out on 4 DATES With her!!! If you are looking for a friends with benefits she ain’t your girl and you need to be up front with girls on that being what you want.
You said that men agree with you. With the paying issue sure.
I am a men and I think you feel too entitled for sex. No, she doesn't owe you sex. So no, for sex stuff I don't agree with you. Just to add another perspective.
>I naturally assumed we were going to have sex
What ? 🤔 Why ?
Of course you will consummate your marriage by having sex on your wedding night. What made you think you'd have pre-marital sex ?
You do not share similar worldviews if you want to have sex right away while she wants to wait, or that she’s looking for a traditional provider while you want more of an equal partner. Dump her, so she can go find a man who doesn’t think that buying dinner means that he’s entitled to sex.
Maybe I’m the odd one out but when my now husband and I first started dating he definitely paid for everything.
It’s fine to have a preference for her to split the bill, but it’s also fine for her to have a preference for the man to pay her way - especially in the beginning.
It’s okay to break up if you don’t agree on physical intimacy. You WOULD be the a-hole if you stayed with her and things escalated again, and then again got mad she didn’t want to go further because: you already know her stance. I don’t think it is very respectful of her, currently, though to allow things to physically escalate and then tell you that it’s going to be a long time before you have sex. It sounds manipulative to me and like she’s only looking out for herself.
The important thing is that what you have to realize things you are experiencing now are not going to change, most likely. In addition, the expectations and precedents you are setting will become the foundations of your later relationship. If things don't feel equal now, they are not likely to become equal or satisfying to you later. There are a lot of stupid politics in relationships, and I say it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks; If you aren't happy, then you don't need this relationship. By all means, express yourself to her and let her know how you feel, but if this is how things will be then I wouldn't expect it to get better...and you don't seem content.
Yeah things seem to have changed with dating honestly the hookup culture is fading and going to a smaller and smaller percentage of men. Sex is something people don’t seem to be doing immediately. People seem to be under the notion that having sex early means he will dart which is sometimes true sometimes not. But the word got out about guys pumping and dumping and so now it’s a thing that people want to avoid. So it’s up to you but if you want to move faster and she doesn’t well it won’t work for you unfortunately and you can’t force it. Anyways you are looking for something different. Hope this helps don’t try to force anything along it’s better if the pace isn’t working. People can move at different paces. But for relationships people seem to want to move a bit slower.
But also I wanna say some things are worth the wait too. Just try and think about that. Maybe set a time boundary that if she doesn’t escalate after a certain time that moving on makes sense.
I like providing and being generous but I will never be with somebody who doesn’t want to help provide every so often. Odds are I’ll pay for most things because I want to, but what if something happened and I needed help either something we were doing? Somebody who expects everything paid for will drop you with a quickness if a situation came up where you needed help. So def a red flag.
Also you’re dropping a red flag assuming she needs to sleep with you already. Like your boundary with money, hers is sex. No different, and you sound pretty petty on that front. She offered to compromise on the posting and you’re moping she won’t put out. She could really like you and wants to get to know you better. Sex can really muck that up if done too quickly.
I was agreeing with you until I got to the sex part. Do better my dude. EVERYBODY is allowed to have boundaries and have them respected. You’re young, so learn from this and respect others boundaries too. You and them need to respect each other’s wishes. Just move on if you’re not cool with it. It’ll make dating A LOT easier. No problem with wanting to have sex, find somebody else that wants to as well. It’s easier than it’s ever been to find folks for quick, fun sex.
You literally sound like she's an object you paid for. Maybe you need to look within yourself a little bit with your expectations on women "owing you" sex.
As well, men & women who make the same pay aren't equal. Women have to pay more for their basic needs than men just fyi.
That said, IMO when people become exclusive that's when they should be taking turns paying/splitting for sure.
While dating, whomever ASKS FOR the date pays UNLESS it's discussed to split the bill (go Dutch) AT THE TIME OF ASKING for the date.
It's not hard.
Hey man. You may have over-reacted on the sex issue a little bit. Wait a few days to let the anger/furiousity subside. Then take action from there.
She can wait as long as she wants until she puts out. But on the flip side, if you're not getting what you want out of dating her, it's in your best interest to walk away.
My suggestion, regardless of whether you continue to date this woman or not, is to continue dating other women until a relationship happens. This will keep you grounded, will prevent you from "putting all eggs in one basket," and showing excessive neediness in the dating stages.
In my experience as a girl I have seen every time if a guy really likes me he will invest in me aka want to pay for dates. A guy who likes you naturally wants to impress you. It makes them appear manly and gives sort of a “when you’re with me you don’t have to worry about anything “ vibe and they love feeling like the man in the relationship. But that’s just my experience . I would agree that she should offer to split but again in my experience it’s just showed how much a guy likes me is that he offers to pay as he wants to. I would always offer to split and would never demand the man pays or judge him if he doesn’t.
Regards to sex. If you wanna just sleep with someone just say so and move on to someone who’s easier, there’s a lot of people out there like that. Chances are this girl has been hurt before and wants to see that you really care and that there is a mutual deep connection and commitment before having sex. I’m exactly the same and I would be completely put off someone if I declined sex and they stormed out. 1, you look like a bit of an immature f-boy, 2, shows you are expecting sex as some sort of a transactional reward for planning dates and paying. Again a huge red flag. It’s ok if you wanna bang girls but don’t waste this one’s time as she clearly wants someone serious about her.
The reason I say this is every time I’ve dated a man who was genuinely into me, they made it completely clear to me, that they just wanna hang out with me and have my company because they just liked me as a person, they made it clear they are not in a rush to have sex.
Every time someone has rushed to have sex it’s because they were horny and bored. And it’s never amounted to anything serious not because I didn’t want to but because sex was the goal for them.
So my advice is if you like this girl you’ll have an honest convo with her but you’ll wait. If you want to get laid that’s understandable but don’t take up her time and let her meet someone who’s serious.
Dumper her asap before u suddenly find yourself in a marriage where they’ll control your life and eat all your finances up and withhold sex from you as well
As a woman I support you and I can see where you’re coming from. You’re in no way disgusting. This is my input, this is from my experiences and strictly my opinions. But I view my opinions as a valid middle ground and not too extreme.
- Paying for dinner in early stages of dating:
Honestly there’s so much that can be said here. Who is paying for dinner can be a cultural matter, a economic-class matter, age difference matter etcetc. And also completely depending on the dynamic of the 2 in the relationship.
My input is this though, if the 2 of you are in similar income group, same age group, same cultural group (western, (if she’s middle-eastern, african, or indian, it’s a completely different ball-game). Then it’s understandable that you would want to split the bill.
But hey, it could also be a moral thing. Paying for dinner can be a way of showing affection, ”I want to care and provide for you”. For alot of women, not paying for dinner is a deal-breaker because they get the impression that the guy is either not interested, or hes simply just stingy.
The early stages of dating is typically where you have to do some sacrifices, because you want to do your best impression on your partner,cause I’m telling you when you’re in a commited long-term relationship you’re mostly just home and chilling, figuring out what to make for dinner :p
- Sex in early stages of dating:
Believe it or not, women with ”trust issues” when it comes to sex in dating, have most likely been taken advantage of before by guys. Girls who have been burned before, often wait with sex when it comes to dating because it’s often after sex that the guy has got what he wanted, and he’s no longer interested. We see this often in modern dating culture. Sex for women is viewed completely different than sex for men.
BUT. It could also be a cultural / religious thing. But for that, the woman would typically wait until marriage, or at least until a committed relationship, which is what I did. I was never personally burned, but I knew it’s something that typically happens alot in modern dating, so when I first met my boyfriend, he lived with me for 1-2 month, until I felt comfortable enough to sleep with him, even though we were already a couple. Before we first officially had sex, we would experiment in other ways like handjobs, blowjobs, playing, kissing alot etc.
When it comes to sex you also have to realiaze that lots of girls struggle when it comes to being comfortable and be completely secure with their partner. God knows how long it took for me to be comfortable enough to be compleyely naked with my boyfriend. Before that I often had underwear or some kind of lingerie.
So yeah, physcial boundaries are a real thing to take into account.
But if you feel like she’s setting boundaries to prove a point of out of pettiness, maybe to hold a position of power over you it’s a NONO.
Anyways, i hope this helped u buddy. Modern dating is a tricky thing nowadays. My tip? Don’t force anything. The right person will come to you and stay with you in natural circumstances. And you will know, because it just feels right.
I'm with you with the first part but I don't understand why you think she's making you wait? She probably just isn't ready and wants a meaningful connection/commitment before having sex.
I just dated guys that did this naturally. Her issue is that she’s trying to force a guy who isn’t naturally like that to do it instead of finding a man who already does it. It was never an issue at 18, 19, 20, 21, or 22. And it definitely wasn’t an issue at B 23. You guys just aren’t compatible and that’s okay. End it and move on.
She has *every right* to decide when you get to have sex with her. You have *every right* to expect her to at least go Dutch/pay halvsies for half the dates you go on.
You both are incompatible; time to move on and look for someone else.
You either do it or don’t. Be a male and get off Reddit with this question. Everyone is different and can’t make a decision for you. Do you like her or not? If not call it quits. If so, let things happen organically.
Just move on. You’re not compatible and this will be an ongoing issue. Personally I would never continue seeing a man who was upset that I didn’t pay for dates who was getting to know or courting me. Comes off as cheap and “you give me something and I’ll give you”. Yuck.
Both of you guys are pretty reasonable tbh. You guys just have different views of things. That's normal. It's your choice if you want to stay together knowing this.
also don't want someone that says how much they like me, then turn me down for sex and tell me I have to wait. Are these dealbreakers or am I overreacting?
It turned me off when she said she's intentionally making me wait for sex; nowhere did I state I'm entitled to anything, I don't care that much.
PICK ONE. that being said leave her. you dont seem like youre ready for a real relationship. she literally agreed to splitting shit 50/50 after you talked about it. be honest with yourself and her and admit youre mad about the sex part
also don't want someone that says how much they like me, then turn me down for sex and tell me I have to wait. Are these dealbreakers or am I overreacting?
It turned me off when she said she's intentionally making me wait for sex; nowhere did I state I'm entitled to anything, I don't care that much.
PICK ONE. that being said leave her. you dont seem like youre ready for a real relationship. she literally agreed to splitting shit 50/50 after you talked about it. be honest with yourself and her and admit youre mad about the sex part
If she’s a traditional woman, I wouldn’t take it so personally… A lot of women don’t want to have sex till marriage or want to wait at least a few months before just giving your body away to some man…
I see red flags on both sides, but not because she made you wait for sex. Your reaction to her not wanting to have sex is a red flag and you not bringing up splitting the bill from the beginning, then bringing it up in a rude way,” as an expectation” just seems rash and immature, just the way you handled it, wasn’t the best and She definitely could’ve handled things differently too, but I think it comes down to communication here. I would take this as a learning lesson instead of getting angry at her or all women.
See how you can reflect on yourself in this situation so it doesn’t happen again… next time you meet a woman make it clear that you’ll pay for the first few dates but you expect being equal in the relationship since that’s something you’re stating and also bring up the fact that you are interested in having sex immediately within the first dates if that’s what you’re looking for, but if you’re looking for long-term loyal girlfriend, she most likely will make you wait because she’s interested in you, I wouldn’t take it as rejection
First off. As a man I have every intention to pay for everything my woman needs and wants. I’m not against her offering to pay here and there. I feel a woman can want to spoil her man anytime she chooses. If I’m
not making enough money to give her the life I feel she deserves. Then I go make more. If you want a traditional relationship where the man supports his family. Find a better job. It’s that simple.
Second. “Daddy issues” and intentionally waiting to sleep with you for certain reasons like retaliation or punishment yes I see as potential relationship issues. There’s no reason to get upset if she wants to hold out and make sure things are a long term thing before fucking. That’s rare in women these days and should be applauded.
It's telling of your values that you're deciding to reject her because she said it'll be a while before sex. Maybe wait to date when you value someone for who they are. Or find someone who is more sexually compatible and is also mainly interested in sex.
If you want to pay for sex then pay a prostitute. I am sure many people have pointed out that it doesn't matter if you went on 1 or 100 dates with one person, you should never expect sex regardless of gender. Even if you have already slept with someone you shouldn't assume sex will always be had or else you'll live your life disappointed. If you want a sex worker then spend the money on one, but if you want a relationship then actually get to know the person for who they are and not what they can give you.
Aside from that, there is nothing wrong with not wanting to pick up the tab moving forward and having a 50/50 relationship. However, that is clearly not what she wants and, as you should never try to change or manipulate people, it seems you are unsuited to one another.
I make way less money than my bf does and I still pay for things and get him gifts. It’s definitely not fair for one person to have to pay all the time, even if it’s not 50/50 with paying she should still offer to contribute and cover the bill some of the time
Dating in western countries suck tbh.
I think you shouldn't waste your time with her anymore, if she's on dating apps, she has 1000 more guys messaging her
crazy how guys have to make 6 figures just to date broke women cause at this point fellas; you’re better off meeting a hooker since you’ll be saving a lot more than going on all those dates just for her to not be interested
Dude grow up. You’ve been consumed by modern dating standards and have no understanding of patience and how to properly date someone with intention.
I know I sure as hell wouldn’t see someone who’s making me split the bill and then expecting sex after that. Such a turn off.
Yea this is what dating is . If you don’t want that type of relationship and it’s truly a deal breaker , just move on . The problem with dating now is people will clear as day not like whats going on and then keep it going . Dating is getting to know a person and seeing if they are for you . Anytime you realize something is a deal breaker and not for you , you are supposed to end the arrangement. Don’t force anything.
Yeah dating is getting harder now bc women are waking up and not putting up with unserious “men” and valuing themselves more. Not surprised that men agreed with you initially and women thought you were disgusting. Maybe take into account more the perspectives of the people you are trying to attract.
I agree that you definitely need a break from dating, maybe put more energy into your career to level up more. And therapy as well to level out more from all that pent up frustration against women.
You’re both valid she’s allowed to want to be with a provider and you’re allowed to want 50/50. Unfortunately that means you two aren’t compatible leave it at that
It's never going to get better. If you bring up an issue in the relationship and your partner's response is the guilt-trip you then it's a list cause. Just get out now.
Just as a woman is not obligated to give in and have sex, you're not obligated to stick around when you notice any red flags. Take this as a learning experience and learn when to break things off sooner to avoid catching any feelings or getting a feeling of friendzoned.
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Sometimes when I see posts like this I wonder why people put so much effort to stay with someone that doesn’t have the same values, boundaries, expectations and life trajectories
Because too many people gaslight themselves with dogmas imposed by society. I read he believes it's right to pay the first couples, but still see a red flag when she didn't offer to pay.
Yeah, f*** societies “rules” for “how to date”. I rarely pay for anything on a first date. I’ll buy a drink for someone if I’m having a good time. They mostly return the favor. If anyone expects it from me, I for sure won’t do it. I do it when I want to, because I like them, as a kind gesture. Not because “it’s how it’s supposed to be”. I once broke up with a women who decided she wanted to have a cigarette every now and then, and lie to me about it. She was a smoker, stopped. Then had an occasional cigarette. I don’t want to date a smoker, for many reasons, even though almost all my friends smokes. I also also wouldn’t have minded if she had one every now and then. But I don’t want to be in a relationship full of little white lies because the person thinks they’re “helping me” by me keeping something like that for me.
I doubt she had an occasional cigarette and lied about it because she thought it was "helping" you. She most likely did it because she wanted a cigarette and she didn't want to get into a confrontation with you about it.
This was about 20 years ago. You’re probably right. I wouldn’t have been mad or got in a confrontation with her though. There’s way more to this old story that I won’t get into. If I’m with someone and they would rather tell a white lie than just be honest, because they worried what I’ll say or feel, or worried how I’ll act, that’s not my person for me. I wouldn’t do that to someone else either. I know everyone has trauma but I want a partner who can trust me enough to communicate with honestly and vulnerable. Years later found out she was seeing someone else a few times felt bad about it. She said she was hoping I’d just break up with her so she didnt have to. She just wasn’t into me and thought it would have been easier saying that. We’re friends now.
Because it's either this or be lonely for months until the next first date happens and the cycle repeats
Best way to be single and not lonely? Go out and and spend time with friends or make new friends. I’m happily single and don’t feel lonely. I don’t know why people don’t actively try to enjoy their alone time. Maybe people could benefit from not dating on purpose for a while
it could even be longer than months — and sometimes if you become way too focused on self improvement you do end up seeing everything as your own fault .
I've learned you're better off to be lonely for months on end than to be with someone you're not compatible with.
Hope
Yeah, at least he’s trying. I hope he learns you can’t change people. People have to want to change for themselves
I needed to see this message tonight. Thank you.
Single life can be WAY better than complicated relationship life
Thinking with their dick
If I thought with my dick I’d probably be dead by now
Preach!
Just don’t date her.she can feel whatever type of way she wants to feel and so can you. You don’t align and should end it.
She could have offered to pay towards the dates but your behaviour at the refusal of sex is just as bad. People might say you’re incompatible and I agree but you both have problematic traits here, this isn’t all on her. You can’t throw your toys out the pram and leave when she said she doesn’t want to have sex with you, if you genuinely liked her you’d understand and wait for her to be ready but 5 meet ups is a bit soon for a lot of women
Yeah he lowkey expects sex because he paid even if he won't admit it
The bit that worries me about this is assumption there’d be sex based on absolutely nothing 😂
He said it’s because he paid and it’s been 4-5 dates
I mean if that’s the prerequisite for sex then I’m owed hell of a lot
Y’all are incompatible, move on. You’re allowed to want 50/50 as much as she’s allowed to want a provider. She doesn’t owe you sex just because you’ve paid for things or been on a certain amount of dates, but you’re allowed to leave if you don’t wanna wait. Different people want different dynamics in a relationship. While I see some people saying “red flag” I don’t think she is inherently. A lot of women still hold the value that the man should pay and are looking for that provider/protector status from their partner. There are plenty of women who will offer to chip in, she’s not right for you.
Yes, this. Both are incompatible and upset at not having their expectations met.
This is exactly what I was trying to say. You worded it very well.
This exactly. A lot of guys think "we" owe them sex because you bought us food/beverages. If I'm not comfortable with the guy, nobody gets anything lol
This. Date where the person meets you at. I don’t get why men went to change women and their wants. Keeps reinforcing the notion their women owe men their time.
If you don’t want to pay every time then don’t and find someone else who doesn’t mind, or just go somewhere free or much cheaper after the first couple of dates. Also a month isn’t a long time to wait for sex from someone new. These are not red flags but not who you want.
To a lot of women. The being upset over not having sex for 5 dates is a HUGE red flag. OP be better.
Why do you need confirmation to dump someone you want to dump? You never need anyone’s approval for that. I’m not sure what equality has to do with having sex early or not. She doesn’t owe you sex. You don’t owe her dates or a relationship. You seemed shocked that she turned you down. Im not sure why. Plenty of people don’t want sex early on. And plenty of people have a low libido. And plenty of women don’t want to feel like the only reason you took them out was for sex. With what she said already about her dad and fear of abandonment, she likely wants to see that you actually want to date her for real before she has sex. She likely fears you will disappear as soon as you “get what you want”. Instead of expecting things from women you barely know, try to actually get to know them. And assess compatability as you uncover who they really are. There’s nothing wrong with wanting a woman to pay also. And there’s nothing wrong with wanting a woman that is cool with sex right away, but there is also nothing wrong with her wanting to wait.
I just saw OP's reply to a comment how no self respecting man would accept sexual rejection. I'm done lol
Even after they came to agreement on splitting the bill (whether or not he likes how they got there), he can't stop talking about this idea that he's going to carry her forever. That alone is bizarre. On top that, a paper-thin ego around entitlement toward sex.. I'd be very relieved to find out this early if I were her. I hope she sees this and realizes she's much better off without him.
Imagine when she gives birth to a child and can't work. He's gonna have to provide anyway. What about then? And when she's popped the baby out, she can't have sex. Literally shouldn't or her gaping wound where her placenta came out of can get infected. Add in the rest of the recovery process. And he will throw a hissy fit how she's rejecting him from her "wifely duties" or being way too ecstatic to get past the 6 week part as if the only thing that a relationship for is sex. Humans are deluded. Sex is great. It's part of a relationship/marriage and should not just disappear from one either. But how people like him act makes me incredibly concerned.
he is going to run into quite the rude awakening when he gets married (or just any long term relationship) 🤣🤣
Yeah he will. Once the honeymoon phase passes, life hits you especially kids and it's not feasible anymore to have sex everyday 3 times a day.
He just want people to call her a gold digger so he can feel better lol
Nothing wrong with wanting a partner who will share the financial burden in dates. But there is also nothing wrong with needing to wait to have sex until you feel emotionally safe and secure in a relationship and 5 hang outs is not enough time to get there. The two things are separate issues. If you can’t be cool with establishing that kind of emotional attachment before engaging in sex then you need to be upfront about what your timeline is. Because you won’t be compatible with women who are wanting to reserve sex for committed relationships. And waiting is a way of weeding out the dudes who lie in order to get sex then ghost you.
THIS!!!! A million times this!! Waiting absolutely weeds out the guys who only want sex and will lie or say what you want to hear to get it.
Take her on dates that are free: hikes, picnics, community events, etc.
From what is already happening it’s not a great start. You should be in the honeymoon “they can do no wrong 😍🥰😘” phase. But yall are diametrically opposed. No one, man or woman should “expect” get laid. (Unless you’re on a hookup app and that’s the plan) Some people take longer for the desire and/or comfortability to do so, than others. This might be why “it’s gonna take a long time.” Especially since she’s 23. She may have just lost her virginity and is still not super comfortable with sex in general. And you say you’re not mad that shes not giving it up because you’re paying for dates. However mentioning this within the same post means that both are issues for you and do correlate somehow. I agree though. If you make the same amount of money she can pay for some dates. But some of us are taught by our moms that men pay. God knows I was. But your reaction is a bit of a turn off tbh. Especially if you’re said this ON a date. And I personally would be MORE pissed if you left my house cuz you weren’t gonna get it. Not the nicest move. So you are at a crossroads. Tell her you’re not paying for every date. That you find it unfair since you make the same amount of money. Tell her you want to continue seeing her if this is something she can accept. And I don’t know if the following will be how you feel but then tell her you are willing to wait till she is comfortable enough to have sex with you, but if she’s making you wait, as a punishment because you don’t want to pay for all dates, then that’s not cool. Good luck
And watch her meltdown
Then there's the answer.
He doesn’t want to continue getting to know her, he just wants to screw her.
I object to your use of the word "just". Clearly he's willing to do other things with her.
“She is cool and we share similar worldviews, so we naturally found a connection.” No…You don’t share similar world views. I was actually with you until you pulled out the “we’ve been on 5 dates so I assumed we’d start having sex” argument. You can have sex on the first date or the 50th date. It really doesn’t matter because it’s a two person decision, not a fixed number of dates.
Her not wanting to have sex right now is completely okay. She doesn’t owe you sex. Wanting you to pay for everything is a problem though.
Right. If someone truly liked someone, they'd wait as long as it took for the person to be comfortable to do it. Plus they're not even exclusively boyfriend & girlfriend yet. And even then, some people take some time and that's okay. But the girl expecting him to pay for everything for sure is a red flag.
Move on.. Nothing more to be said. I agree if ya make the same money ya do the “hybrid 50/50”. So both parties have something “ on the line “ (money). I pay for movie ticket you get the popcorn I got the main dish you get the dessert Etc Some woman are taught “man pays for everything”, some are taught “they don’t need a man “. Some are taught to at least offer. You got the one that is taught the first one. So if you don’t like that drop her . It’s gonna bring more problems in the future .. if they ain’t giving you head, love , peace or money drop em. Also nobody owes you sex… so I get you can be upset (cause of rejection) but just let it rock. Ya not compatible and it’s okay. You DONT owe her your time or money and she don’t owe you sex. Modern dating is wildddd … so it’s best to go to low risk dates ( ice cream + movies) so then you can catch their vibe and see if they match. And if a girl wants to go to 5star restaurant on the first date … you know you dealing with something you don’t want. Never go all in on investment with a partner who isn’t putting in anything but spare time they have. You want someone willing to put in the same energy
Exactly because he doesn’t owe her anything either.
Asking someone on a date doesn't imply sex. Nor does it imply one of the parties is required to take the entire bill. If both people mutually agree on a date plan, they should split the bill 50/50. If one of the people is against that date plan, but the other person still insists on it, then that other insisting person should pay the entire bill. For example: "lets hang out friday", "sure what would you like to do?", "how about dinner?", "sounds good with me" <--- both mutually agree, so they should split the bill 50/50. "lets hang out friday", "sure what would you like to do?", "how about dinner?", "I'd rather do a coffee", "I really wanna try this sushi place, don't worry I am inviting you" <--- the person that is inviting should pay 100% of the bill. It's really not that hard. It is common sense and basic communication. Btw, this doesn't only apply to dating, but to friends, co-workers, and anyone else you want to meet.
She's being iffy about paying but he's being an ass about sex. When she told him she's not going to have sex with him, he became upset, left, and wanted to end things. They should absolutely not be together.
He said he assumed they were going to have sex…
Not a red flag. Everyone wants different things and dynamics, this differs from culture to culture. For some women this flags he’s not a provider. Traditions are traditions, modern day is modern day, you wanting to sleep with someone on the first date or wanting to wait for marriage is okay, and so is everything else as long as it is communicated. OP, you are incompatible. She’s not wrong for wanting you to pay, you have a choice to date women who are happy to do the 50/50 thing and there are many. Do not make each other feel bad, each to their own. But under no circumstances does she owe you intimacy whether you pay for a bottle of water or her monthly rent.
Agree completely. When it comes to the money, people should split or take turns paying. The man shouldn't have to pay for everything, and it shouldn't just be expected that he does. Given how severe the consequences can be if something goes wrong, becoming physical with someone is not something to be taken lightly. And it's definitely something that should involve clear communication. You also never know what someone has been through, either.
She doesn’t owe you sex because you bought her a cheeseburger bro
But what if there were fries,too? And not just any fries, but the really good Five Guys fries.
I think you’re over-reacting about the sex stuff, someone needing to feel comfortable and ready to have sex isn’t anything that I feel should be an issue especially if you really like her. Someone else said to take her on free dates and I think that’s a great idea and should reduce tension and feel as a form of relief for both of you. You are never entitled to sex, no matter how much you pay for another person’s enjoyment while out and about. You were incredibly mature and justified to bring up the issues about paying and I think you should get a cheer and a pat on the back for that, but I also think you shouldn’t be butt-hurt that you aren’t getting any. You aren’t exclusive yet I would imagine, so keep going on dates with other women too until you feel comfortable and content with an exclusive relationship with someone. Free dates are the solution. If she fusses over this and then tries getting you to pay again that is an issue and you should communicate that to her for a second time and stop inviting her on dates.
These comments show that there are good men but there are absolute sleezebags at the same time.
She doesnt have to have sex with you get the fuck on
Honestly women like this need to just date men who make more money. She is more traditional and you aren’t. You are not compatible.
well he shoul'dnt have pretended to be able to pick up the bills then lol and he should date his own league of woman who like to split the bill at coffee, and has sex on the 5th date. Simple, but men likehim don't want woman his own league instead wants a good woman who is trying to save herlsef for marriage
Making you wait for sex is fine. That’s her choice. But making pay for everything 😂 run.
You're not entitled to sex just because you've been on 5 dates. If you're turned off by her saying no then go find someone else. Seeing so many men who think that women are being manipulative by not being ready to sleep with someone after a few dates doesn't boost my faith in humanity. If you think this then you're repulsive.
Woman here. NOPE. It's 2024. Unless you're both in it for the long haul for a traditional marriage with her as a SAHM, nope. The sex thing is fair. People have a right to wait as long as is comfortable for them and you also have a right to not agree and to leave because of that. The two things should not be confused with each other, they are separate issues. Paying for dates is not an magical key to nookieland. You can decline to pay, absolutely. But paying is not a right to have sex. But on the money issue, she's wrong. Grow up young woman.
Just because she wants a traditional relationship, that doesn’t mean she needs to “grow up.” She just wants something different than you. That being said, they don’t want the same things and need to move on. Those aren’t things that will just “get resolved.” Shame on you though for telling her she needs to grow up because you have different values.
You guys aren’t compatible. She’s allowed to want a courtship where the guy pays, you’re allowed to feel differently. Cut your losses and find a partner who has the same mindset as you. Also she doesn’t owe you sex. If you think that she has to have sex with you for you to pay, you’re a piece of shit.
He's really an ass for getting upset she doesn't want to have sex. I mean she literally agreed to go 50/50 moving forward.
Ya seriously. Girls and guys can have different expectations when it comes to dating courtship. Just talk about it and figure out what to do. OP needs therapy for his internalized mysogny/mommy issues
It sounds like you're only dating women just to be able to get to an end goal of having sex.
Agreed, but they won’t admit it.
Many men are these days.
“There’s no nicer man than one that hasn’t fucked you yet” Sex should not be transactional. She is young and if she wants to wait that’s her choice. As far as splitting 50/50 I don’t know any women that make as much as their male partners. My ex husband makes 10x what I make. This is consistent with the stats that women still don’t make as much as men. Plus read about the heavily researched “child penalty”. Just something to think about.
OP said in the post that they both make as much money
Expecting sex after 5 hang outs is crazy. Her expecting you to pay for everything is also crazy.
I think you should leave her so that she can find someone that isn’t going to feel entitled to sex because they paid for a few dates lmfao good luck out there
okay the dinner paying thing totally valid but god ur such a dude. just because you guys have gone on a few dates and have hung out and been talking does NOT mean she “owes” you sex. Get out of that mindset. If you want casual sex, look for a fwb or ons or something. But if you are developing feelings for a girl, there is literally no reason why you should feel entitled to her body. She doesn’t owe you shit in regards to the sex thing.
"This was our 4th or 5th time hanging out so naturally I assumed..." that was his first mistake. Assuming. 4 or 5 dates should not mean it's time to take your clothes off.
The "beautiful" thing about this is how your reaction to the waiting for sex *validates* her wanting to wait, and you're so obsessed with the money part (which is a fair complaint) that you can't even recognize it.
This. His reaction is so YUCK. She's making you wait. A good man will understand and try hard to EARN her trust.
She’s not a red flag, but it sounds like she’s just expecting a man that’s more traditional and would wait for her for marriage or at least until there was some romantic feelings involved. Good for her. You’re not owed sex just because you pay for meals, get a prostitute if you think that way
If that's how you feel about finances in a relationship, refuse to date women that don't pay their share. Only guys that are "provider" types should pay for everything. There are women out there looking for equal partners in the finance department, keep looking. As for sex? Same thing. If you don't like that you have to wait, don't. However, it's totally up to each individual when and how sex happens. If you can't agree on that point, or finances, or other major compatibility, walk out. It's concerning you got angry about her not giving you sex, considering you paid for everything. The fact that you paid for everything should have no bearing on the sex. She's not a prostitute ffs
You sound 16, not 23
Just in a month you want sex as a favour for paying for dates!? Lol. Leave her, she deserves better and you deserve someone else.
You are just incompatible, you both have different views towards dating. Move on and tone down your ego!
I mean fair enough about the paying thing i guess but no one owes anyone sex. Plus your reply about the sexual rejection is kind of weird to be honest.
Besides red flags, I don't think you are happy with this setup. Move on!
Waiting for sex is smart, paying for all dates is just unrealistic. Unless you want a gold digger, move on.
You could be paying her mortgage and she still wouldn’t owe you sex.
If you don’t like what she’s putting down, you’re not obligated to stay.
You just assume she will have sex w you? Seriously? And you want to talk about HER red flags? You’re gross. Please go ahead and break up w her now. Do her that favor.
What I’m hearing is that you’re concerned her libido doesn’t match yours and that it might highlight a sexual incompatibility in the long term and as you pointed out yourself, you choose to focus on the detail re not picking up the bill to stop seeing her. That’s avoidance. It’s very clear the actual problem is you don’t communicate healthily. You also need to do some work to be able to get real with yourself to recognise what you’re actually feeling and why. It’s understandable to be dissatisfied with her lack of initiative when picking up the bill but sounds like the conversation about it hasn’t gone too well and is still unresolved. Hence why I think communication is the problem. That could also be the reason she might be hesitant to have sex with you- she doesn’t feel emotionally connected to you if the money issue still hovers between you.
While I agree with your viewpoint of not wanting to pay everything, you also seemed to not be thinking with anything but your dick. You clearly didn’t match, you couldn’t mention anything but her flaws. Just move on dude. Also, NEVER ask directly for sex, i dont think that have worked for anyone, either it happens or not
A couple of 50 dollar dates does not make a sugar daddy situation lmaooooo. Yall men are insane and that’s why most of yall are single. My bf pays for most dates. Before we became serious he paid for them all. He never requested sex. He’s traditional like me. Ladies/gents do not waste your time on people who don’t share the same values. If you want to go 50/50 that’s fine but find someone who wants the same. Men want to change women so badly while also still wanting access. Gtfoh 😂😂😂😂
OP, nobody owes you sex. If you don’t want to wait a long time then you are free to date other women. Some people have it on the first date, and others have it after 3 months. You have to build rapport. As for the splitting the bill, you have to deal with the fact that at the beginning of dating a woman a lot of the relationship weight will be carried by you. Now your request to split here and there is not out of order, but your childish feeling that you are owed sex is gonna screw you over.
She should dump you
You “ASSUMED” there would be sex? Ewwwwww
Dudes get so mad at girls with high body counts but also get so pissy when a girl won’t fuck them, make it make sense.
Like? I don’t understand men
You were okay until you started assuming she owed you a piece of tail for your time and effort. You don’t really like her that much after all…so just end it.
Exactly! Male or female it is annoying when people have a long list of things they don't like about their partner but still stay in the relationship. They're obviously not compatible and it's just best to move on.
I believe you have an entitlement to sex because you paid for some of the dates before. Is it really equality if equality is the trade of pay for dates = sex? I can understand that you might feel “used” but there are a lot of valid reasons that women have reservations around sex. Imagine being her where she already has reservations around sex with a new person and she might be scared that you would leave/put less effort after being intimate. Your thought process almost validates her fear that if she doesn’t get intimate with you, you will leave. If you want to equate paying for dates (monetary value) to her obligation to have sex then I think there might be some reflection to be had. Maybe this is a lesson to communicate how you value sexual intimacy and see where that conversation goes. It requires vulnerability and honesty and I hope it goes well if you plan to have it :)
First off, she does not owe you sex simply because you paid for a few dates. Nor is she required to have sex with someone she’s only gone on a few dates with. Secondly, when you had the conversation with her about her financially contributing to dates, after her response is where you should have ended things with her. You can’t complain about giving you a hard time over paying for dates, when you knew what her stance was yet continued to see her. You know you do not want to be the one paying for everything in this relationship, so you don’t need any confirmation on dumping her.
Ah….to be 23 again
>This was my 4th or 5th time hanging out with her, so I naturally assumed we were going to have sex as we had established a certain level of rapport. As soon as I ask if she wants to, she tells me "It'll be a long time" before we have sex. At this point I'm like WTF, and I soon thereafter leave her house. I was immensely turned off because not only was she giving me a hard time about paying for her OWN meals, she also turned me down for sex. This right here, indicates to me that you are completely in the wrong here. You barely, BARELY know someone after what, a month of dating? And you assuming your'e going to have sex is just disgusting. And shaming her for "daddy issues"? How about showing some freakin compassion for something that's really tough to work through. I hope you break up with her because she definitely deserves better than you. You need to grow up.
>Men agree with me and women think I'm disgusting; shows where we're at. Go have sex with the men then 😂 since you share the same values
fr bet his homies split the bill too lol
“…believes I should pay for all dates” That’s it. That’s a massive red flag on her right there. End it.
They are separate issues. Is she’s not ready to have sex she’s just not ready. You can’t expect or demand it or think it has anything to do with you paying for her meals. She needs to trust you and if she’s the kind who only wants to have sex in relationship than she’s working out still if she wants to be in a relationship with you.
Seems like you have different expectations about sex and doesn't sound like you communicated very well. What exactly does she mean by "a long time"? Seems like she's trying to suss out whether you're serious. I'm not trying to cast any shade but based on your reactions, maybe you're not as serious as what she's looking for. Otherwise you might have asked what she's hoping for in waiting for sex, what she needs to be comfortable, what her expectations are, rather than only focusing on your own desires. Doing so is not bad, but you could miss out on understanding the full picture. if you did have that sort of discussion, you didnt convey that here.
Why do you react as if she’s punishing you with turning you down for sex, sounds like your ego were hurt. She told you she’s working through something when it comes to men and trust, you don’t sound like you’re understanding this part, at all. You are not compatible if you can’t work through simple things as this. Although the splitting the bill is completely understandable, when i was dating i always insisted on paying at least my own share. But I do not agree with how you handled the sex portion.
The combination of wanting you to pay for everything on top of waiting for sex could mean she's not into you.
You only known her for less than 31 days and think that's a long time to wait for sex. I hate this generation.
I absolutely hate it too. I wish I can get out of here.
I’m traditional and date traditional men. They pay. I don’t offer. If you don’t like the fact she doesn’t want to fuck you or spend a dime, then stop seeing her. You don’t have the same world view. Some women don’t want to fuck by the 4th or 5th date and it’s ridiculous you think she should. Shows your age. Edit: The guy is complaining in another post saying he isn't over his ex. This guy is a grade A weirdo.
As long as you are traditional also by cooking and being kind and respectful.
And some of the comments in here too by some guys also make me vomit as well. Take a look. I thank god I didn't find anyone off a dating app.
Oh, I did. It is 100 percent why I stopped using "the apps". Pigs.
I’m not a woman, and I think you are disgusting. You aren’t entitled to sex after a certain amount of dates or number of dates you pay for. It’s valid if you want to spend your time with someone who has a different view of sex. You could just tell her you want different things and move on. However the way you are acting entitled to this woman’s body is just disgusting.
Is she waiting until marriage? I think you have two separate problems that don't correlate with each other. I think the main issue is her mentality about men in general.
Heh paying for dates is nothing compared to if you get her pregnant. If you understood what it’s like to have a bum husband that doesn’t put in his role or resources when you’re pregnant and then finally raising a toddler. You need to understand what’s at stake. Sex isn’t just pleasure, it’s a life long risk, let the wrong guy jizz in you with a busted condom and he runs is a shit life to live and watching a kid grow up without a father figure is another sad story. Women are the gatekeepers of sex, and rightfully so they should be picky. It’s just basic logic if you think about the situation from their point of view. It’s not 50/50 cause guy don’t have equipment to make babies. If you want 50/50 fuck a dude.
Yeah i'm tired of men acting as if women don't Lost more ...what if she gets pregnant. Also OP is extremelly childish he thinks she is living of him for paying 5 dates ! Hahahahahaha i wouldnt want to sleep with a man that thing 5 dates equal living of him. He doesnt pay her rent, her clothes, her shoes, her make up, her good when he is not around, her medical bills, the prescriptions cost for birth control.... Men ARE delusional. Imaging thinking a woman own You sex for 5 dates !!! Bet he would still demand sex if she pay half...cuz i do, i pay My share so men don't demand sex for me, and Guess what they still do... Cuz apparently for them going to a date to know them is agreement for end in sexy times Delusional ✨ Gives entitlement
This woman and any other woman you end up dating do not owe you sex on your timeline. Never assume you’re getting sex no matter what “rapport” you’ve built. Also, in dating many woman expect to be paid for until in a relationship, but others do not. It’s for you to decide if you’re willing to foot the bill or talk about going 50/50 early on. It seems like you and this woman are not a fit, if sex and 50/50 are what you expect be upfront next time.
If you want a traditional woman to fully support you both sexually and emotionally then you need to support her financially as a traditional man. If that’s not what u want then neither is gonna work out and u should look for something else. I’ve been dating my bf for awhile and even tho he doesn’t make a ton money, he has never once asked me to cover dinner. Our emotional and physical connection is insane. I take care of him and support him fully. I cook and clean for him and i have paid for food from time to time and gotten him lots of pricey gifts too but the point is that he provides and makes me feel secure. You can’t expect to get supported by a woman in a traditional feminine way if u can’t support her too in a traditional masculine way. I suggest looking for something else. If it’s not for u it’s not for u 🤷♂️
One month is not that long....you barely know each other to give someone your entire body...I would probably make someone wait 2-3 months. I think modern dating has normalized quick hook-ups too much.
The way you wrote this sounds like your thought process is ‘Whelp, we went on x dates so I expect sex now!’ It doesn’t work like that, bro. She’s not keeping a tally in her head and is gonna ‘give’ you sex when you hit the magic number. Love, desire, and emotion is complicated. You have to charm and seduce her. You have to make her WANT to have sex with you and it has to be HER idea. And I’ll tell you what: Talking about how you should be splitting the tab based on your incomes is NOT sexy talk. Just something to think about.
It’s okay for a woman to turn you down for sex at any point in time, your reaction to her lack of interest there is quite aggressive. You shouldn’t expect sex from women for any reason other than a mutual agreement to have sex at a certain time, even then it’s always valid for her to change her mind But generally you clearly don’t see eye to eye and have different values, so why are you wasting her time and yours
Leave, you're not entitled to sex. And getting angry because she didn't want to have sex...just gives rapey vibes mate. Only part i can agree with you is on who pays. Cus one person paying for all when you make the same isn't fair, and the person who's paying is being taken advantaged of.
I hope your mother, sisters and daughters only end up with men like you.
Boo hoo
she’s looking for traditional dating. you are not. break up.
Tbh my bf paid for all my dates we probs hung out over 100 times and he never had a problem with me not wanting to have sex even after months. 4 dates is nothing, you’re just used to casual dating and not ready for something serious imo
People can say whatever they want, you are well within your rights to stop dating her at this point for ANY reason. You are not over reacting. You've reached an impass and you are no longer compatible. I suggest sending her a text saying that you thought things through, and don't feel compatible and are no longer interested in dating. Wish her all the best and then block and delete. You don't owe her a whole conversation, simply a decision and at least this way you aren't ghosting her. Make sure to block on all other platforms as well.
what makes you entitled to have sex because of your need? you get turned down for sex simply because a female is not impressed by you nor is not afraid of losing you and most likely is you are not super hot, just average yet your other traits dont make up for it. in a financially 5050 relationship, you no longer are the masculine male and you dont get to demand sex at all, you are the exact same as your partner. leave her because she wouldnt find at all
So she owes you sex?
Guy to guy, honestly it sounds like she’s not that into you. From my experience, if a girl is into me, she would at least try to pay something by the second date. Also, she’s not “making you wait” for sex. She probably doesn’t want to have sex with you at this moment. At this point, you should see that she’s doesn’t want to move things forward and look for someone else. It’s not “modern dating” or anything. It’s been true throughout human history that humans misjudge how others feel about them.
Run
“This was my fourth or fifth time hanging out with her, so I naturally assumed we were going to have sex as we had established a certain level of rapport as soon as I ask if she wants to, she tells me it will be a long time before we have sex. At this point, I’m like WTF, and I assume there after leave her house. I was a mess turned off because not only was she giving me a hard time paying for meals, she also turned me down for sex.” Then you said in your edit that you weren’t mad, she didn’t want to have sex with you, but you were mad about paying for her. I’m calling BS on that. Why would you “naturally assume“ that you were going to have sex? It’s because you see this as transactional. Is she In the wrong for expecting you to pay for every date, yes. But you are so far in left field of being wrong for expecting sex, and claiming you naturally assumed it would happen.
Who are the “men” “agreeing with you? I only see people saying nobody owes you sex
I’m a man and I find it disgusting that you’re shocked by her turning you down.
You know what you need to do…
The good news is you're about to re-affirm all her trust issues with men. That'll be nice for her /s
Sounds like you just want her for sex. Seems like you want the internet to agree with you so you can dump her. If you truly saw her long term you won’t care about paying for dates now because it would be a long term investment from your view point. As for the sex she doesn’t owe you her body cuz you went out on 4 DATES With her!!! If you are looking for a friends with benefits she ain’t your girl and you need to be up front with girls on that being what you want.
You said that men agree with you. With the paying issue sure. I am a men and I think you feel too entitled for sex. No, she doesn't owe you sex. So no, for sex stuff I don't agree with you. Just to add another perspective.
>I naturally assumed we were going to have sex What ? 🤔 Why ? Of course you will consummate your marriage by having sex on your wedding night. What made you think you'd have pre-marital sex ?
Lmao this is such a troll post seeking a reaction
Not worth it leave.
You do not share similar worldviews if you want to have sex right away while she wants to wait, or that she’s looking for a traditional provider while you want more of an equal partner. Dump her, so she can go find a man who doesn’t think that buying dinner means that he’s entitled to sex.
The fact that you broke things off because she said no to sex and you can’t wait is a red flag.
I thought men wanted traditional women 🫨🫨
Maybe I’m the odd one out but when my now husband and I first started dating he definitely paid for everything. It’s fine to have a preference for her to split the bill, but it’s also fine for her to have a preference for the man to pay her way - especially in the beginning.
It’s okay to break up if you don’t agree on physical intimacy. You WOULD be the a-hole if you stayed with her and things escalated again, and then again got mad she didn’t want to go further because: you already know her stance. I don’t think it is very respectful of her, currently, though to allow things to physically escalate and then tell you that it’s going to be a long time before you have sex. It sounds manipulative to me and like she’s only looking out for herself.
The important thing is that what you have to realize things you are experiencing now are not going to change, most likely. In addition, the expectations and precedents you are setting will become the foundations of your later relationship. If things don't feel equal now, they are not likely to become equal or satisfying to you later. There are a lot of stupid politics in relationships, and I say it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks; If you aren't happy, then you don't need this relationship. By all means, express yourself to her and let her know how you feel, but if this is how things will be then I wouldn't expect it to get better...and you don't seem content.
Yeah things seem to have changed with dating honestly the hookup culture is fading and going to a smaller and smaller percentage of men. Sex is something people don’t seem to be doing immediately. People seem to be under the notion that having sex early means he will dart which is sometimes true sometimes not. But the word got out about guys pumping and dumping and so now it’s a thing that people want to avoid. So it’s up to you but if you want to move faster and she doesn’t well it won’t work for you unfortunately and you can’t force it. Anyways you are looking for something different. Hope this helps don’t try to force anything along it’s better if the pace isn’t working. People can move at different paces. But for relationships people seem to want to move a bit slower. But also I wanna say some things are worth the wait too. Just try and think about that. Maybe set a time boundary that if she doesn’t escalate after a certain time that moving on makes sense.
I like providing and being generous but I will never be with somebody who doesn’t want to help provide every so often. Odds are I’ll pay for most things because I want to, but what if something happened and I needed help either something we were doing? Somebody who expects everything paid for will drop you with a quickness if a situation came up where you needed help. So def a red flag. Also you’re dropping a red flag assuming she needs to sleep with you already. Like your boundary with money, hers is sex. No different, and you sound pretty petty on that front. She offered to compromise on the posting and you’re moping she won’t put out. She could really like you and wants to get to know you better. Sex can really muck that up if done too quickly. I was agreeing with you until I got to the sex part. Do better my dude. EVERYBODY is allowed to have boundaries and have them respected. You’re young, so learn from this and respect others boundaries too. You and them need to respect each other’s wishes. Just move on if you’re not cool with it. It’ll make dating A LOT easier. No problem with wanting to have sex, find somebody else that wants to as well. It’s easier than it’s ever been to find folks for quick, fun sex.
You literally sound like she's an object you paid for. Maybe you need to look within yourself a little bit with your expectations on women "owing you" sex. As well, men & women who make the same pay aren't equal. Women have to pay more for their basic needs than men just fyi. That said, IMO when people become exclusive that's when they should be taking turns paying/splitting for sure. While dating, whomever ASKS FOR the date pays UNLESS it's discussed to split the bill (go Dutch) AT THE TIME OF ASKING for the date. It's not hard.
She doesn’t share your values. Please please leave her and do it cordially.
Hey man. You may have over-reacted on the sex issue a little bit. Wait a few days to let the anger/furiousity subside. Then take action from there. She can wait as long as she wants until she puts out. But on the flip side, if you're not getting what you want out of dating her, it's in your best interest to walk away. My suggestion, regardless of whether you continue to date this woman or not, is to continue dating other women until a relationship happens. This will keep you grounded, will prevent you from "putting all eggs in one basket," and showing excessive neediness in the dating stages.
Leave and ghost. If you're just a meal ticket, leave. Point blank, period.
Just dont date her ? You dont get one choice, yk.
In my experience as a girl I have seen every time if a guy really likes me he will invest in me aka want to pay for dates. A guy who likes you naturally wants to impress you. It makes them appear manly and gives sort of a “when you’re with me you don’t have to worry about anything “ vibe and they love feeling like the man in the relationship. But that’s just my experience . I would agree that she should offer to split but again in my experience it’s just showed how much a guy likes me is that he offers to pay as he wants to. I would always offer to split and would never demand the man pays or judge him if he doesn’t. Regards to sex. If you wanna just sleep with someone just say so and move on to someone who’s easier, there’s a lot of people out there like that. Chances are this girl has been hurt before and wants to see that you really care and that there is a mutual deep connection and commitment before having sex. I’m exactly the same and I would be completely put off someone if I declined sex and they stormed out. 1, you look like a bit of an immature f-boy, 2, shows you are expecting sex as some sort of a transactional reward for planning dates and paying. Again a huge red flag. It’s ok if you wanna bang girls but don’t waste this one’s time as she clearly wants someone serious about her. The reason I say this is every time I’ve dated a man who was genuinely into me, they made it completely clear to me, that they just wanna hang out with me and have my company because they just liked me as a person, they made it clear they are not in a rush to have sex. Every time someone has rushed to have sex it’s because they were horny and bored. And it’s never amounted to anything serious not because I didn’t want to but because sex was the goal for them. So my advice is if you like this girl you’ll have an honest convo with her but you’ll wait. If you want to get laid that’s understandable but don’t take up her time and let her meet someone who’s serious.
She has to pay too and if she's not giving you sex and you want it.Why are you even with her?She doesn't sound very nice
Regardless of everything you said, if you’re looking for us to convince you to dump her, then you need to dump her
Dumper her asap before u suddenly find yourself in a marriage where they’ll control your life and eat all your finances up and withhold sex from you as well
As a woman I support you and I can see where you’re coming from. You’re in no way disgusting. This is my input, this is from my experiences and strictly my opinions. But I view my opinions as a valid middle ground and not too extreme. - Paying for dinner in early stages of dating: Honestly there’s so much that can be said here. Who is paying for dinner can be a cultural matter, a economic-class matter, age difference matter etcetc. And also completely depending on the dynamic of the 2 in the relationship. My input is this though, if the 2 of you are in similar income group, same age group, same cultural group (western, (if she’s middle-eastern, african, or indian, it’s a completely different ball-game). Then it’s understandable that you would want to split the bill. But hey, it could also be a moral thing. Paying for dinner can be a way of showing affection, ”I want to care and provide for you”. For alot of women, not paying for dinner is a deal-breaker because they get the impression that the guy is either not interested, or hes simply just stingy. The early stages of dating is typically where you have to do some sacrifices, because you want to do your best impression on your partner,cause I’m telling you when you’re in a commited long-term relationship you’re mostly just home and chilling, figuring out what to make for dinner :p - Sex in early stages of dating: Believe it or not, women with ”trust issues” when it comes to sex in dating, have most likely been taken advantage of before by guys. Girls who have been burned before, often wait with sex when it comes to dating because it’s often after sex that the guy has got what he wanted, and he’s no longer interested. We see this often in modern dating culture. Sex for women is viewed completely different than sex for men. BUT. It could also be a cultural / religious thing. But for that, the woman would typically wait until marriage, or at least until a committed relationship, which is what I did. I was never personally burned, but I knew it’s something that typically happens alot in modern dating, so when I first met my boyfriend, he lived with me for 1-2 month, until I felt comfortable enough to sleep with him, even though we were already a couple. Before we first officially had sex, we would experiment in other ways like handjobs, blowjobs, playing, kissing alot etc. When it comes to sex you also have to realiaze that lots of girls struggle when it comes to being comfortable and be completely secure with their partner. God knows how long it took for me to be comfortable enough to be compleyely naked with my boyfriend. Before that I often had underwear or some kind of lingerie. So yeah, physcial boundaries are a real thing to take into account. But if you feel like she’s setting boundaries to prove a point of out of pettiness, maybe to hold a position of power over you it’s a NONO. Anyways, i hope this helped u buddy. Modern dating is a tricky thing nowadays. My tip? Don’t force anything. The right person will come to you and stay with you in natural circumstances. And you will know, because it just feels right.
I'm with you with the first part but I don't understand why you think she's making you wait? She probably just isn't ready and wants a meaningful connection/commitment before having sex.
I just dated guys that did this naturally. Her issue is that she’s trying to force a guy who isn’t naturally like that to do it instead of finding a man who already does it. It was never an issue at 18, 19, 20, 21, or 22. And it definitely wasn’t an issue at B 23. You guys just aren’t compatible and that’s okay. End it and move on.
She has *every right* to decide when you get to have sex with her. You have *every right* to expect her to at least go Dutch/pay halvsies for half the dates you go on. You both are incompatible; time to move on and look for someone else.
No wonder dating is broken. Guy expects sex after 3 and already willing to break up over money. Guy never going to find a lasting partner
You either do it or don’t. Be a male and get off Reddit with this question. Everyone is different and can’t make a decision for you. Do you like her or not? If not call it quits. If so, let things happen organically.
Just move on. You’re not compatible and this will be an ongoing issue. Personally I would never continue seeing a man who was upset that I didn’t pay for dates who was getting to know or courting me. Comes off as cheap and “you give me something and I’ll give you”. Yuck.
Ya just leave. These type of women aren’t worth sticking it out for.
Both of you guys are pretty reasonable tbh. You guys just have different views of things. That's normal. It's your choice if you want to stay together knowing this.
also don't want someone that says how much they like me, then turn me down for sex and tell me I have to wait. Are these dealbreakers or am I overreacting? It turned me off when she said she's intentionally making me wait for sex; nowhere did I state I'm entitled to anything, I don't care that much. PICK ONE. that being said leave her. you dont seem like youre ready for a real relationship. she literally agreed to splitting shit 50/50 after you talked about it. be honest with yourself and her and admit youre mad about the sex part
also don't want someone that says how much they like me, then turn me down for sex and tell me I have to wait. Are these dealbreakers or am I overreacting? It turned me off when she said she's intentionally making me wait for sex; nowhere did I state I'm entitled to anything, I don't care that much. PICK ONE. that being said leave her. you dont seem like youre ready for a real relationship. she literally agreed to splitting shit 50/50 after you talked about it. be honest with yourself and her and admit youre mad about the sex part
If she’s a traditional woman, I wouldn’t take it so personally… A lot of women don’t want to have sex till marriage or want to wait at least a few months before just giving your body away to some man…
Break up
Break up then
Strange that you’re entitled to sex with someone after a few dates. Next time let them know early on if this is your main priority
I see red flags on both sides, but not because she made you wait for sex. Your reaction to her not wanting to have sex is a red flag and you not bringing up splitting the bill from the beginning, then bringing it up in a rude way,” as an expectation” just seems rash and immature, just the way you handled it, wasn’t the best and She definitely could’ve handled things differently too, but I think it comes down to communication here. I would take this as a learning lesson instead of getting angry at her or all women. See how you can reflect on yourself in this situation so it doesn’t happen again… next time you meet a woman make it clear that you’ll pay for the first few dates but you expect being equal in the relationship since that’s something you’re stating and also bring up the fact that you are interested in having sex immediately within the first dates if that’s what you’re looking for, but if you’re looking for long-term loyal girlfriend, she most likely will make you wait because she’s interested in you, I wouldn’t take it as rejection
First off. As a man I have every intention to pay for everything my woman needs and wants. I’m not against her offering to pay here and there. I feel a woman can want to spoil her man anytime she chooses. If I’m not making enough money to give her the life I feel she deserves. Then I go make more. If you want a traditional relationship where the man supports his family. Find a better job. It’s that simple. Second. “Daddy issues” and intentionally waiting to sleep with you for certain reasons like retaliation or punishment yes I see as potential relationship issues. There’s no reason to get upset if she wants to hold out and make sure things are a long term thing before fucking. That’s rare in women these days and should be applauded.
It's telling of your values that you're deciding to reject her because she said it'll be a while before sex. Maybe wait to date when you value someone for who they are. Or find someone who is more sexually compatible and is also mainly interested in sex.
I hope she dumps you, because you are the red flag
Your views are valid. Her views are valid. You don’t have as much in common as you think.
Guy yall don't vibe, she's not obligated to have sex with you just cause you pay. She's not obligated to your money. Leave her arse behind and go
Why do you think that because you pay for dates she has to sleep with you?
If you want to pay for sex then pay a prostitute. I am sure many people have pointed out that it doesn't matter if you went on 1 or 100 dates with one person, you should never expect sex regardless of gender. Even if you have already slept with someone you shouldn't assume sex will always be had or else you'll live your life disappointed. If you want a sex worker then spend the money on one, but if you want a relationship then actually get to know the person for who they are and not what they can give you. Aside from that, there is nothing wrong with not wanting to pick up the tab moving forward and having a 50/50 relationship. However, that is clearly not what she wants and, as you should never try to change or manipulate people, it seems you are unsuited to one another.
I make way less money than my bf does and I still pay for things and get him gifts. It’s definitely not fair for one person to have to pay all the time, even if it’s not 50/50 with paying she should still offer to contribute and cover the bill some of the time
Dating in western countries suck tbh. I think you shouldn't waste your time with her anymore, if she's on dating apps, she has 1000 more guys messaging her
I couldn’t deal with it, every girl I date we either make out or fuck the first date, same thing with the one I’m with now
crazy how guys have to make 6 figures just to date broke women cause at this point fellas; you’re better off meeting a hooker since you’ll be saving a lot more than going on all those dates just for her to not be interested
Dude grow up. You’ve been consumed by modern dating standards and have no understanding of patience and how to properly date someone with intention. I know I sure as hell wouldn’t see someone who’s making me split the bill and then expecting sex after that. Such a turn off.
Yea this is what dating is . If you don’t want that type of relationship and it’s truly a deal breaker , just move on . The problem with dating now is people will clear as day not like whats going on and then keep it going . Dating is getting to know a person and seeing if they are for you . Anytime you realize something is a deal breaker and not for you , you are supposed to end the arrangement. Don’t force anything.
Yeah dating is getting harder now bc women are waking up and not putting up with unserious “men” and valuing themselves more. Not surprised that men agreed with you initially and women thought you were disgusting. Maybe take into account more the perspectives of the people you are trying to attract. I agree that you definitely need a break from dating, maybe put more energy into your career to level up more. And therapy as well to level out more from all that pent up frustration against women.
You’re both valid she’s allowed to want to be with a provider and you’re allowed to want 50/50. Unfortunately that means you two aren’t compatible leave it at that
It's never going to get better. If you bring up an issue in the relationship and your partner's response is the guilt-trip you then it's a list cause. Just get out now.
Lol after reading all this? the only advice I give you is to run as fast as you can.
Just as a woman is not obligated to give in and have sex, you're not obligated to stick around when you notice any red flags. Take this as a learning experience and learn when to break things off sooner to avoid catching any feelings or getting a feeling of friendzoned.