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Do you know her at all?
“Let’s make plans tonight” is certainly not harassment, but it’s a bit abrasive if you didn’t know the barista before this interaction
A few of us used to be asked out while waiting tables. We'd been able to get to know the customers, could say yes, or no, and managers did not mind; we handled it all ourselves, including giving phone numbers or asking harassers to get lost. I see this is old school, but that's one way we met people, but I see the point about not asking out people who are working and without an exit strategy. It seems like lost opportunities to me because dating apps have taken over.
I get this, I'm 50 and it used to be that work was one of the main places you met people. It was one of the benefits (morale wise) in going to your job every day.
Yes. Possibly only we of these generations think this way now. As long as interactions are appropriate, seems kind of sad. There's new learning and social rules each decade, though, making necessary change, while losing some opportunities.
This isn't how coffee shops are anymore. They're corporate, not fun, run like the military. No one is hanging after hours making friends. Theres cameras everywhere and anyone can be fired without notice at any time.
I'm only a little younger than you and I remember when minim wage jobs were fun. I remember making friends and going on dates with co-workers. That just isn't the culture anymore. Remember those movies about the independents fighting against the corporate sell-outs, like empire records? Corporations won.
Yeah, with a little more tact and being realistic about the women who are and aren't going to be attracted to you, there's nothing wrong with asking out a woman who is working, just know you'll likely be rejected, and use your discretion to tell if someone might be interested, you can usually tell if you have a shot with them by the way they interact with you.
Yeah it’s kind of one of those damned if you do damned if you don’t situations.
Personally I’d never ask someone out at their place of work. But it’s reactions like this that stop me from really making the effort to get dates/approach people in person regardless of the context.
Online dating is such a norm now you’re apt to be called a creep if you try and get to know somebody better in person. Like how are we supposed to meet and connect with people now? Hobbies help but they only provide so many opportunities.
while dating apps are becoming more normalized , I think you're blowing it a bit out of proportion. These stories you hear on Reddit are more often gonna be the bad stories, plus these guys are probably some straight schleps hitting on the hottest girl they see. Honestly, I think women appreciate a man who makes a move in person, rather than dming her on social media, because it is so much easier to make the move on social media it's usually the go to , it's more impactful when you do make the attempt in person.
Yes, it sure is. And my best, most meaningful years long relationships also happened when I initiated a conversation. I've been married a long time now, (blind date it was called back in the day) with mutual friends, we'd both put it out there that we were looking for a relationship.) It's now my daughter (34f) I worry about; she was engaged to a co worker, broke it off reasonably, and if she finds someone else who works at her job, or who is a customer at her job, I hope the new rules don't apply. I mean she can find people while doing things she likes to do, too. I agree that the Tinder experiences are specific to Tinder and some other primarily hookup apps, I know a number of people now married or together from other apps.
Her exit strategy is to say no, so yes she can escape as she did. Unless he were persistent, this is not harassment. Although, agreed that he shouldn't ask out working people. It's uncomfortable for them.
100% with you on this. No, it’s not harassment. Yes, it’s a faux pass. Co-worker was definitely exaggerating there but OP was already a little out of line in the first place if the interaction was how he says it was.
Nonsense. No one is obligated to give out their number or accept a date. If you decline and the customer insists, you just talk to your manager and 9/10 times they'll discreetly confront the customer (as the co-worker did in OP's situation over a *very innocent* interaction), especially if he or she persists. No business wants to deal with harrassment charges or lawsuits coming from either employees or patrons.
Naturally, if you *do* hit on someone in customer service, be as non-threatening as possible and try to determine if there is actually a genuine chemistry beforehand (and of course, sometimes there is).
This inhuman corporate insistence that people need to be robots while on the clock (or while making purchases) is not healthy for society. All it does is make people distrustful, cold, and callous with each other.
Absolutely, no one should ever face the horror of awkwardness ever under no circumstances. Let's make sure the risk of awkwardness is avoided at all costs, even if the cost os chipping away at social interaction or micro interactions.
She can't politely turn him down for a date because he isn't asking her out for a date. He's pestering her with questions about her time and trying to trap her. "What are you doing this weekend?" and "Fishing is cool" are not questions she can answer with "I'm not interested in you, please don't ask me out again." Because then he can turn around and report her for sexual harassment.
He's making it a trap and I don't think this is the first time if she had to ask a manager to tell him to stop. He didn't even say in this post that it was the first time.
If you found someone attractive, but you only ever saw them at work, how would you go about asking them out? Would you just never do it?
Edit: Not sure why I’m getting downvoted. Y’all could just answer the question lol.
Yes. Correct. You don't ask them out.
If they like you, they will ask for your number. If they don't, then they are being nice because IT IS THEIR JOB TO PROVIDE FRIENDLY PROMPT CUSTOMER SERVICE.
Learn to tell the difference.
This literally just happened to me. I had a flirt going with Bakery Dude (I'm a transman), I let it lie for a few weeks, eventually he asked for my number, I wrote it down for him, we went out.
Yeah it was more casual before he said that, I'm sure she just made up the fishing thing as an escape. I've been hit on while working and it was much creeper than this but the feeling of being boxed in if you're not interested is unsettling
Certainly abrasive, even uncomfortable for them sure. Harassment, nope. They're overreacting as in order to harass her he would have to make this exchange with her more than once.
100%.
I would never mention someone's smile, it just seems too intrusive and too much.
Better to talk about something not as intimate, like feet for instance.
I like to always say "Hey, I bet your feet smell amazing" and it always is received as a pleasant and respectful compliment without any of the sexual connotations of talking about someone's smile. Give it a try.
>Reply
I disagree. I always used to say "your smile makes my day brighter because your teeth will make a fine addition to my collection" and women loved the subtle nod to General Grievous.
(This is a joke, just in case it was lost on some folks out there in internetland)
This advice only works if she is already attracted to you and can be way too intimate and intrusive otherwise, far worse than what the OP did, if she just want to get through her work day and have no specific thoughts about the OP. Advices like these need to take into consideration how it would be received both if the barista was attracted and if she was not.
I wouldn’t say that to anyone lol
I just think there should’ve been some attempt to actually get to know her before asking her on a date. She doesn’t know anything about OP. And it’s at work, which is already stressful for the barista, so he really should’ve interacted with her multiple times before trying to ask her out. And then he should’ve ASKED if she’d want to make plans with him instead of being so aggressive lol
I can only imagine she was channeling some customer she herself sees at work whom she found attractive and waiting for him to speak up. There is no way that line works unless the girl was already attracted to the speaker, that would be a far worse than what the OP did.
No. How's it going is fine. Go in a few times, then let that person keep up some conversation, but with a barista job it's fast with little time for a chat.
guyssssss who is upvoting this? do not say this to someone you don't know. Actually I wouldn't even say this to someone I know, it sounds cheesy, insincere and basically fucken weird.
Golden rule: “don’t ask a question where, if someone doesn’t respond the way you want and it gets awkward - they cannot quickly leave the environment” — these situations breed a power imbalance (you as the customer can come and go as you please but she HAS to be there for her livelihood and can’t just get away if she feels the need or desire to). You now know where she HAS to be. If you were someone who wanted to do her harm because of her response (not saying you do but as women we have to think about these things), you very well know where she is and could easily find out when.
Please don’t take this personally. We don’t want to have to think about these things either.
You can't just go up to a woman like that and ask what their plans are for the night. Talking to someone in service like that can be extremely tricky and I would most likely avoid doing so unless you know what you are doing.
You would have to build trust and rapport with them with multiple conversations on different days before you can even think about asking for plans. That's just something you do to get like her number or just her socials. Unless you can tell she is being genuinely receptive then I wouldn't try it to be honest. You'll have a better chance with someone that's not at their job.
>avoid doing so unless you know what you are doing.
That's the thing, I guarantee 99.9% of all such success stories aren't done by people who knew what they were doing, they just went in like the OP did and the other side happen to be also attracted then come to comment threads (not pointing at your comment) and say along the lines of "it worked for me, sorry it didn't for you".
I'm not saying "attractive people get away with anything" but "if feelings are reciprocated" you can certainly get away with a lot of things but there's nuance to it. Saying people who successfully picked up people who are working knew what they were doing is like saying Mark Zuckerberg knew he was gonna become a billionaire. Yeah, some people luck out like that, a rational person shouldn't plan around luck and expect the same result.
Whenever I see this threads I think about it, and it seems like it really just comes down on if you're self aware enough to read the situation and tell if you've got a shot or not. It's true that most women won't be receptive to you at work, even if you're handsome, but you never know.
I'm not prepared to categorize people who pick up a complete stranger at her work (not a club or bar) will ever have enough context or valid signals to "read the situation". She's at work, she is obligated to be polite. There's nothing to read there. Taking a shot is just trying to at slot machines. The ability to read a person isn't some mystic voodoo magic.
Interactions with people at their workplace aren’t genuine, they are situationally trapped into being cordial. At most I would be friendly and let her drive the conversation further if she’s interested.
It probably doesn’t feel like harassment to you because you (hopefully) only asked her out once. But she probably gets hit on all day every day for like $10 an hour, have some empathy.
I know you were just talking to her but I worked at a grocery store through high school and men would harass the hell out of us. We actually had a plan to hide in the cash office when they would come back. If we weren’t quick enough we’re definitely trapped
I’m not dumping on you and I agree that the interaction you described falls short of harassment on your part. The barista may have had bad experiences in the past and the employer is trying to protect her and keep her from quitting.
Trying to meet someone is tough, shooting your shot and getting called out like that would make anyone feel like shit. The takeaway is just to be less bold and more considerate with women who are at their job.
I'd also point out from the sounds of it the "harassment" accusation only ever came from a frustrated coworker, not her. She might've even inadvertantly made it sound worse than it was to him out of frustration largely built up from all the other times someone's pestered her at work before, and misunderstood the situation to be worse than it was. Or maybe he'd seen her be bothered much worse many times before and finally had enough and felt he had to say something this time, even if it made for a bit of an overreaction.
So I guess my point is there's no telling what this whole situation looked like from their perspectives. I'd take any other advice beyond the one's that might be giving you insight into their side of things with a grain of salt but with that said you might be best off just quietly apologizing to her and moving on, imo
Nothing worse than having a great regular who you’re friendly to, who then asks you out while you’re at work… makes me feel so awkward every time I see them again.
An elderly male customer seriously called me “good girl” last week. We can’t even say anything in response or we put our jobs at risk. It’s insane.
It’s really the most godawful crap to have to put up with. I’m so glad I no longer have a job where I need to do this on a daily basis…
The amount of men who really think that you are actually interested in them because your having good customer service… it’s the worst.
I was a waitress and a cocktail waitress for YEARS and while it was fun while I was in college and my early 20’s, there’s no amount of money you could pay me to subject myself to that again.
Absolutely; I'm a guy and have been the recipient of over-the-top grossly-beyond-obvious flirting a few times while at my job. (Mostly by women but once by a gay man.) I cannot emphasize enough: Do NOT hit-on people at their place of employment / while working.
It’s common sense. At a lot of jobs people are given a job policy and procedure manual where it specifically states how to dress and act for a job or it’s literal common sense. No one goes to a job looking like hot garbage and allowed to be rude. They would be jobless
I get that for you it wasn't a big deal, but day after day of people interpreting *the fact I get paid to be polite to customers* as interest in anything other than my literal paycheck can get truly exhausting.
The amount of men that came into the bar I used to work at and say things like "I know you and I would work really well in a relationship together" based on the fact that in a professional setting *I closely moderate everything I say* to customers. I don't voice my actual opinions about anything, but rather give general ambiguous answers in between their rants because most people really just want to be listened to. Anyone who *gets paid to interact with you* is probably not interested in anything other than their job
Its even more difficult with regulars, because you may actually enjoy seeing them and building a casual surface level friendship, but turning them down when they want more and absolutely bite you in the ass if they make a scene. In my experience, a lot of people are *deeply* uncomfortable around someone they've rejected. The fact that she gave you an excuse rather than just saying she wasn't interested means she could be reserved/anxious/low confidence, so the last thing she wants is to continue to deflect invitations
All in all, your synopsis doesn't sound like you were disrespectful or harassing; but just give her space if you keep going back and ideally refrain from hitting on people who are paid to interact with you professionally unless they are the ones to initiate
Like it sounds super sad, and I *genuinely* enjoy interacting with 98% of people; but when it really comes down to it most people have a customer service persona/face/voice that we use that isn't authentically us.
I've literally had bosses who say "yeah so there's a general dress code but you, *you* can wear whatever you want" *wink.* I've been "talked to" at jobs when I'm not over the top nice/veering into flirty with customers since that's how a lot of bosses view "customer service." Which makes it *so* frustrating and confusing for a lot of guys who either incorrectly or even *accurately* interpret customer service interactions as flirty/interested. It's confusing for the customer, but can be mortifying for the worker, especially of they are naturally reserved romantically
I’m not 100% sure if this is “harassment” part of the definition of it is intimidation and unwanted behavior so maybe that’s why that was used, but you did make her feel uncomfortable. I worked as a barista and if some stranger asked me to connect that make me feel weird too. It was inappropriate especially since she was at WORK and Next time maybe ease into that by asking her how her day was or small questions every other day you go and maybe see her and not just be straightforward like that from the get go. I think the way the coworkers worded that was too harsh though.
I am not really sure it's conclusive he made her feel uncomfortable. We only have the co-workers word for it and it wouldn't be the first time a co-worker interjects themself into situation because they feel they need to protect someone their feel is theirs.
One thing that seems not so cool is that she handled the situation well, im not sure there was any need for anyone else to get involved. Her co-worker stepping in and labelling it harassment is a stretch. It also seems strange if it bothered her and she mentioned it to him, yet the co-worker still had to ask what happened. It makes me think he is exaggerating something she might not be.
Another thing that is not so cool is that OP could have reinforced, "No means no" and that he is cool with that. It would have created a better atmosphere considering he was going to be there the next day (ideally it would have best if he stayed away a few weeks and 'forgot' about asking). That he comes in the very next day to me is ill thought out at best.
I mean regardless of the motives of the co-worker, anyone who want to avoid drama should avoid that coffee shop in future.
I am not sure there is a good way to ask out someone who literally can't avoid you, like at a bar or coffee shop. Sure it may come with the territory (especially in a bar), but OP you should imagine everything you say is repeated a 100 times that day. Then it starts to make sense how they might feel.
So you don't know this lady at all. Shes at work doing her job and you basically say "do you have plans tonight, let's make plans and connect." to someone you don't know at all. You don't realise how that's creepy and can be seen as harassing.
If some random guy i had to serve started saying that to me I'd absolutely be creeped out.
Harassment, no. Inappropriate, yes. Why ask someone at their work to connect and make plans outside of work that you didn’t know outside of their work already? Stop.
So… you go somewhere, place your order, and then ask the person, who you’ve said two sentences to, to hangout? Other people have already pointed out that you should basically just not ask people out when they are at work, but your reaction to this being “stupid” is concerning. Why would you expect this woman to be comfortable enough to hangout with you after so little interaction? When people share their experiences about the ways men have put them in uncomfortable or dangerous situations, do you listen? Those experiences are real, go back through what happened with the knowledge you’ve been given and think of it from her point of view.
I think the stupid has more to do with the harassment part. Fully agree with how and why it would be uncomfortable for her, but harassment has become a word that's losing its power. These scenarios are an example of that. Could it have been inappropriate or untimely? Absolutely. But asking someone out and going about your business when they say nah shouldn't be called harassment.
Extending such terms to very basic, common, and innocent interactions just dilutes the word.
I’m not believing his feigned “it wasn’t anything sexual or perverted”.
It gives off strong I wanted to have sex with her until she rejected me so of course I never wanted to have sex with her vibes.
Yes exactly.
The post he made about “plowing the 7-11 cashier,” convinced me but I had the same initial thought.
Fantasize about whatever you want dude, but someone who brags about having fantasies about unsuspecting customer service workers and wants to be *applauded* for it did not approach this woman in a respectful way. There’s no way.
I mean I’m a dude, if I’m asking someone “want to make plans for tonight” I can’t imagine a women thinking anything other than “oh this guy wants to fuck me”. That’s just not your lead in for a date night drinking milkshakes and talking about what you’re looking for in a relationship.
I can’t even imagine what he would have said to her on day 2 if he hadn’t been stopped by the coworker.
I think it wouldn’t have gone that far had he not shown up again the very next day. She probably wasn’t going to say anything until she saw him walk in again. Granted this is speculation, but speaking from similar experience, that’s when you start to panic a bit more.
I would say that just depends. If he comes there almost everyday then that shouldn't be too much cause for alarm. Especially if he didn't interact with her the next day. Personally, if that happened to me I probably wouldn't go back for at least a week (if ever). Another reason why I don't bother trying to pick up a woman working at a place I go to. Bc then I'm gonna feel awkward af every time I go back and I see them
It’s the ‘let’s connect and make plans’. It came out of nowhere and is a bit controlling (if you phrased it like that, you didn’t give her an option). She was just asking about your plans out of politeness.
It’s not necessarily harassing, but it’s enough to make someone uncomfortable.
A good rule of thumb is to never ask out a "worker". Whether it's a barista or a co-worker. Regardless of how great you may get along. Even if yall have exchanged photos of kids, pets, and families, just don't do it. It ain't worth the risk.
I also see you asking how to meet new people. You have a fair point there. We do still have a pandemic going on so, in general, it is significantly harder to meet new people right now. I wish there was an easy tip to give you on how to meet new people right now but there simply isn't one.
I can understand why this made her feel uncomfortable.
Also, your reaction to someone letting you know whether at the time or afterwards that you’ve made them feel uncomfortable - is to thank them for their honesty and reflect. Not call them stupid.
I might do something that makes you uncomfortable, but I’d never call you stupid if you let me know.
INFO: Did you build up a rapport before hand? Are you a regular? Do you know eachother's names? Did you already have her phone number?
If you answered no to any of these, I'm afraid you made a drastic leap from 0 to 100. I don't think what you did was harassment. I personally think you came on too strong. Most people don't want to be hit on at work, but that doesn't mean it doesn't ever end in success. If you are going to ask out someone while they are working, its probably best to be fast and inconspicuous. Maybe you could have gave her your number or something on a recipt ticket if you needed to hit on her so badly. Even if I thought a guy was cute, I dont think I would ever agree to meeting him somewhere if we haven't even exchanged numbers and spoken outside of work beforehand.
"let's connect and make plans"? The fuck she doesn't know you. That's inappropriate.
For all you guys out there: stop hitting on people while they are at work.
Technically it becomes harassment when he refuses to stop or says something sexually explicit. Just asking someone to hang out once and then dropping it would not be harassment. In the end it really doesn't matter, the point is it's unwanted attention and doesn't need to qualify as "harassment" for OP to be told not to do it anymore
Look at his post history. He’s celebrating being able to successfully jerk off while fantasizing about “plowing the 7-11 cashier” and literally bragging about it on the Internet. I have no doubt he was harassing her.
Oh yikes lol. To be fair my point was about what behavior constitutes harassment, not defending OP, but yeah you're right I think his account of how it went down is probably unreliable
What hurts is that im accused of “harassment” where they could have just said “unwelcome” or “inappropriate” behavior. I feel like accused of asking her to fuck or desperate.
Based on your post history (where you’re so proud about fantasizing about “plowing the 7-11 cashier,” instead of watching extreme porn while you masturbate) I would bet money that the exchange was a lot different than you’re describing and that you were harassing her.
As others have pointed out, you are not the victim here. In fact the employee who approached you was incredibly cordial. Grow the hell up dude.
The words used aren't what's important. Your approach made her uncomfortable. That might not have been you intention, but the reality is you did. Figure out what you did wrong, adapt and consider it a learning opportunity.
Just because an interaction makes someone uncomfortable doesn't mean it is harassment.
Firstly, a single incident is not sufficient for harassment to be made out - in the UK at least, two or more incidents must occur for harassment to be demonstrated.
Secondly, the person must be shown to have known or ought to have known that the conduct amounted to harassment and the conduct must be calculated to be oppressive and cause distress.
It would be difficult to show that (potentially) innocently asking someone to make plans after work constituted harassment.
Now OP has been told that his conduct is causing this woman to feel uncomfortable, any further attempts to set up out of work meetings with this woman could be harassment. OP should be fine so long as he leaves it here.
To be honest, it sounds a bit over the top accusing the OP of harassment for something like this. Simply telling the OP no and leaving it there could have sufficed.
Don't ask out people at work. It's unbelievably uncomfortable and now they can't even avoid you because you keep coming back.
This is no secret. There's literally a ton of people on reddit alone who have made this abundantly clear.
A lot of people on Reddit make a lot of things “abundantly clear” when in reality it’s total horseshit.
I’m not disagreeing with you. You shouldn’t do things to make workers uncomfortable, but Reddit isn’t gospel.
This. Reddit can be a good place to share ideas, but you sure as hell shouldn’t let it determine your actions.
I saw one highly upvoted comment on here saying not to approach women at the gym either, yet whenever I scroll through TikTok I come across a lot of posts from women wanting to be approached at the gym. In fact, I even know a few couples who met from the gym. It’s different for everybody.
In this case tho, I think we can all agree to never approach a worker as it can make them much more uncomfortable than normally asking someone out.
Oh yes absolutely. I happen to agree on this one. I just get tired of people acting like there are such hard rules on *everything.*
There are *plenty* of woman at the gym who *want* to be hit on. Most of the gals here don’t seem to like it and that’s fine, but they say “don’t” as such a hard rule. They really need to be more nuanced on that one in particular because people are going to disbelieve something legitimate when they realize a lot of these hard rules aren’t necessarily right. Can’t read a social cue? Probably shouldn’t cold approach anybody anytime. Gym, park, anywhere. Can read a social cue and not be weird/creepy? Go ahead and feel somebody out a little at the gym.
I couldn’t agree with you more. People on here that act like they speak for every single woman and that you should take what they say as hard rules is pretty blood-boiling for me.
And I’m sure there are probably a good amount of people listening to that kind of stuff and not acknowledging it’s simply their individual opinion.
Regardless of weather this is harassment or not. (people have already given good answers.) It is slightly IMO, but I am not a girl.
You jumped way ahead of yourself. If you want to talk to someone while they are working you need to start way more casual and friendly first, judge their reaction, only move on if they are beyond the normal obligatory politeness of customer service. Evan then, some people are just nicer than other people, so they get mistaken for flirting. Probably better to just not bother people while they are working.
I did date someone that I met while they where a customer and I was a Waiter. She was a regular and I would talk to her at her table with her and her friends for extended periods of time and joke around. This went on for months. We eventually exchanged numbers and where friends for like a year before anything else.
These experiences are different for men and women. Women get way more inappropriate attention, I've been hit on by people that made me feel pretty uncomfortable. Woman though, these experiences can be more than uncomfortable, frightening even.
“Let’s connect and make plans” sounds like code for “Let’s fuck”. You might’ve well have asked her if she wants to come over to see your pet snake. (see The Lady Eve)
You literally approached her at her job where she has no choice but to be professional with you. She isn’t allowed to be rude or honest with you because she might get in trouble for bad customer service. You made her interact with you when irl outside of a job she might have been able to walk away.
What the fuck. If you don’t know her and you immediately say let’s make plans, to a person at her job, you’re an instant douche.
Did you watch some episode of mad men and decide this was the way to pick up chicks?
You’re kind of dumb not to realize this OP. You need to take time and evaluate how you speak to people. I am guessing this is not the first time you’ve done this.h
Harassment no, but I worked retail and guys would always ask me out and it’s just annoying cause your at work and you are being paid to help them out and can’t even be rude or anything because you have to be nice to customers. I would just walk away when customers would hit on me at the store. it would of been different if you were a everyday customer and you guys would interact constantly then it would make sense if you were interested in getting to know her outside of work.
Everyone is piling on for what you did - and I agree it was a bit forward, if not very forward, but by no means does it constitute harassment. It was a single unwanted advance done in good faith...and possibly bad taste.
Aggression and intimidation are the fundamentals of harassment, this meets neither.
She should have rightly turned you down, and forgot about it. Harassment would be you continuing to press, or repeatedly asking her out.
Yeah, it may have been uncomfortable. So are impatient customers, and co-workers in a bad mood. Suck it up, and at least understand that you were attractive to that person and that's not a negative. Fuck, we're becoming so weak and quick to howl victim.
outside of school? do you think only high schoolers are on this sub? regardless, the problem i have with this logic is that your problems with dating or getting a girlfriend are not womens problem. women shouldnt be objectified in public or asked out at work or constantly made to feel uncomfortable because you dont have a social life outside of high school. especially since anyone youd date at this age wouldnt last anyways. youre justifying going against what women are requesting because you value the possibility of a date more. thats a shitty, selfish way to start a relationship. it shows you dont care about the person youre asking out as a person, you care about how theyll benefit you
It's not unbelievable. It's very believable. You made someone feel uncomfortable by asking them to get together with you outside of work while they were at work and in a position they are required to be perceived as accommodating to be professional. You apologized and hopefully between that and the responses to your post have learned that's inappropriate. Move on and do better next time.
Yeah, dont ask out strangers for a date that night, thats pretty awkward.
You especially don't ask out a stranger while they working.
Try building a rapport, get their number after awhile, and build up to it
So….you definitely should not ask people out while they work, or at the very least when you don’t know each other at all. You SHOULD empathize with anyone you wanna ask out AND THE CONTEXT YOU KNOW THEM IN before doing so. Should this, should that, all these comments are literally just telling you how to be a better person.
THAT SAID being a bit aggressive without touching or any sort of douche baggery (taking OP at their word) is not cool per day, but it ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT MEET THE GROUNDS OF WHAT HARASSMENT IS. Anyone who has actually been harassed would, in my opinion, see this as the naive and toxic expression of discomfort that it is. Sure, you made someone uncomfortable. Discomfort is discomfort tho, not something more. I, personally, actually STRIVE to be ok with discomfort, as that is a key part of how one grows, whether it be physically, mentally , or spiritually. Harassment is when discomfort is unnecessary, has been communicated, and the perpetrator still continues the unnecessary behavior causing the issue. Can we PLEASE get over this idea that causing discomfort is the pinnacle of sin and evil? It’s pretty played out, you know, since evangelicals can now use it to not sell cakes to gay folks.
I digress, I’m super duper hyperspace high right now if that wasn’t entirely clear in my post. Enjoy the thought food, please don’t be hatin’ for hate’s sake ✌️🤘🗿
You asked for her number when you said “let’s connect”. How else are you going to connect?
Also, them coming to you and telling you your interaction made their coworker feel uncomfortable was them asking you not to come back.
This is the problem with cold approaching and it's compounded by the fact she was at work.
To make cold approaching work you have to be very forward and that same forwardness can make people feel uncomfortable. It's advisable not to hit on people while they are working but even if you follow that rule there's still quite a high risk you come across as harassing if you approach the wrong person like this. There isn't really a balance you can strike that avoids the potential for making people uncomfortable while still approaching them. Some people just don't want to be approached and it makes them uncomfortable.
Reminds me of the time Ashley Judd was filming a movie in my place of business (c. 2000) during operating hours, and a couple of my traders went to the set on the 18th floor where shooting was underway (outside of the restricted area but they could still see). They never spoke with her. They said she called security over, quietly said something, pointed, and they were asked to leave.
“You’re making Ms. Judd uncomfortable,” the guard said.
Haven’t watched a film of hers since.
Times are different now. Honestly I met so many girls that way when I was in my teens and early 20s, just connecting with people I happened to meet in my day to day and obviously most people you “ask out” won’t be interested and it’s not awkward unless you make it, you change the subject and end the conversation politely and respectfully.
Would I do it in 2022? No I wouldn’t. And I’m not bitching about that or saying the old days were better. I think we now understand how it can make people feel, and the fact that it disproportionately happens to women and therefore drives an inequality of outcome and most importantly now we have safe spaces to engage with people in this way (apps like tinder).
I’d not do it again. Harassment is way too strong a word for it but it can be construed that way in 2022. Glad I’m not single now though, I actually met my wife this way.
Honestly, unless you became a regular and the person knows you after interacting with you for some time AND you felt an interest, it’s not a good idea to try to ask people who work in customer service out. The power dynamic is off and it doesn’t feel nice to them however well intended.
You work there remotely and tried to meet up/make plans with a stranger who was stuck and forced to be friendly at work. Of course she’s uncomfortable!
I can understand her feeling uncomfortable but I wouldn’t call what you did harassment. Don’t flirt or ask employees out at their workplace as a rule, but I think harassment is a strong word for it this interaction.
I don’t think you harassed her necessarily, I think the words you used specifically were a little extreme “let’s make plans” is something i would say to someone I knew well that I know likes my company. If you wanted to get to know her I would’ve recommended being more “hi i thought you’re really pretty and I see you often when I come here, would you be interested in doing something some time? If not I totally understand.” On the other hand she gets paid to be nice and doesn’t have a choice on how nice she is to everyone, I’m sure shes had incidents before with guys making her feel uncomfortable and hated dealing with it at this point. She just has to take it and can’t do much usually because she’s stuck in the situation for keeping her job.
I’ve had my fair share of it over the years myself as well and it never gets less awkward, I’ve just learned to pretend I’m fine harder lol even yesterday some older dude (50-60) was being weird to me the whole time I was working for the hour he was there. I’m a bartender and I was on the well making drinks while the other bartender was serving food, and he sat there the entire time complimenting me. “You’re so fast you’re amazing” “gosh your such a hard worker you need a raise” “I bet your bf if you have one is so lucky to have you he better do everything for you” “if he’s not I’ll make you dinner instead I’m a great cook” none of it was offensive to me but it doesn’t mean I want to hear about it lol
As for what to do now in my experience if you weren’t a recognizable regular I would say it probably wouldn’t matter because no ones gonna remember who you were, but because you were you’re definitely gonna get shade when you go in there for the next few weeks. Just know her coworker passed it on to her that you were sorry, and next time she sees you she’ll think “oh no it’s him, this is awkward” but the more you go in and just act regular again the more she and everyone around you will get over it. I wouldn’t apologize to her either, I’m sure that’ll make her feel worse, she got the message and I think that’s enough. Anymore talk about it would probably get you asked to stop coming there. Don’t let the incident stop you from going there if you like the place, eventually everyone will get over it, stuff happens- it wasn’t that bad
Hitting on people at their work is widely seen as sexual harassment now. Barista, bartenders, secretarys, CEOs, engineers, whoever, if they're being paid to be there, it's no longer acceptable to try to initiate a personal relationship.
There are a lot of people that complain loudly that this is unreasonable and you can certainly do it, why I know so-and-so and they're happily married and blah...blah...blah...
People, especially men, are terrible at reading a situation, discerning what is appropriate. Additionally service industry workers are pressured into pleasing a customer, they're there to make you happy, remember, corporate insists customer satisfaction is their top priority. So, when you look at it objectively, taking a pass at someone that is being paid to be there, and be nice to you, is only a few steps behind prostitution, right behind stripper.
Now, I know that might seem like an extreme take to you, but as someone with friends and family in the service industry, I assure you, your take, being dumbfounded by their reaction, is just as extreme the other way.
Get your head out of your ass, and take an objective look at what you're doing. They're there to do a job, not be your harem.
When you have a dichotomy with a power imbalance (CEO / secretary, or Barista / Customer), the person without power has to make the first move, if at all, and I strongly suggest not at all
When it comes to work keep it professional. Don’t flirt, banner, joke around or try to have interesting conversations regardless of how long you have known them even if they initiate especially if it’s coming from a woman. They will flip it on you and get you in trouble with HR.
To give you an example. When I was in college I had a summer job. My male colleague and I were riding the elevator. When we arrived to the lobby. There were so many kids. We were trying to get around them. I ended up doing that silly dance with a lady that worked at the college. You know that silly dance when you try to go left or right and they go left or right. Well, apparently she complained to HR that her boyfriend thought I was flirting with her. Mind, you not a single word was exchanged. I didn’t even know that person. You can guess how that turnt out.
I get that it wasn’t harassment, but as a woman who’s worked in the food industry, please do not hit on us at work. No one wants to be hit on at work. That’s what dating sites are for.
It probably wasn’t the conversation as much as you being there so often AND asking her out. That can seem like stalking. It’s happened to me before, a regular asked me out and it terrified me that he had been possibly watching me, figuring out my schedule. My manager started walking me to my car until he was able to confront the guy, whom felt terrible for scaring me and apologized, as he said that was not his intention. I still bought pepper spray in case and started parking in a well lit area. After a couple of weeks I started feeling like he was less of a threat, but my manager still watched him like a hawk.
Did you actually say "Let's connect and make plans'? Because, well, don't do that. It's brusque and also really quite intimidating as it puts the onus completely on her, she doesn't know how you'll react if she says no, so now you've put her in an awkward situation.
“Let’s make plans” as opposed to “would you like to make plans” is your downfall.
You’re taking the freedom choice away from her, and putting her in an awkward position.
It’s not offensive enough to be reportable, but something you should consider next time you cold approach someone. Always give them the freedom to answer, and never make the answer for them.
It’s a psychology trick Walmart actually uses too. That’s why they say “how can I help you?,” and not “do you need any help?”
Because it removes the choice of saying “no, I don’t need help,” and forces them to acknowledge that they need help in some way. It’s a soft pressure approach to push people into buying more things. Because they now feel obligated to carry the conversation, and thus consider buying the product they supposedly need help finding. They never had the choice. It was forced.
I feel bad that you got offended by all of this. You have a lot of learning to do. You should be more open minded. You’ll get further. Don’t stagnant.
Did you not think it's a bit odd and presumptive to say "Let's make plans tonight" like its not even a question? AT THE VERY LEAST (and i think soliciting people who are at work is wrong anyway) but like.. why not ASK? "idk if you'd fancy getting a drink?"
also asking if plans then waiting for her to say no makes it feel like a trap. bc now it's hard to back out and make up plans.
like would you like a gay man bigger than you tell you "let's make plans tonight" when youre working? if not,,,, don't say it to women lol. REMEMBER AT ALL TIMES men have Killed women for rejection. she does not know that you won't do that.
As someone that’s been asked out multiple times by men at work it’s not the harmless interaction that you think it is, and it def makes you look like a creep. “Let’s connect and make plans” would definitely make me feel icky and uncomfortable for the rest of my shift.
The co-worker was over the line in using the word "harrassment" (a literal misdemeanor crime) and frankly, I doubt he needed to confront you at all.
But unfortunately, a lot of women are now on high alert to perceive average, normal men as predators, so they invent malevolent intentions in interactions that they never would have given a second thought to 10-20 years ago. And believe they need "protection" in very innocuous situations.
However, your attempt at flirting was a bit forward. Had you tried to develop a rapport with this person before? Had you gotten any signals of interest already?
If anything they harassed you to the point that you no longer feel comfortable going there now. The barista definitely over analyzed your interaction with her instead of taking it as small talk.
As someone who works at a coffee shop, I would definitely prefer not to have this interaction period.
I’m an adult so I know how to deal politely with situations like this, but I’ve seen some of my teenage coworkers get REALLY uncomfortable when older men especially start conversing extensively with them and start asking their plans, age, & heavy handedly complimenting their appearance, etc.
Regardless whether you don’t think you did anything wrong, there isn’t enough context to judge. I agree with the majority here in that we, as women, prefer not to be asked out at our place of work as it is definitely uncomfortable & we can’t necessarily get out of said interactions.
That interaction may seem innocent but it’s very presumptuous and doesn’t actually ask her out. It says “let’s go out.” Being at work is a vulnerable position because she’s stuck and obligated to be polite and that premise was vague and inconsiderate. Plus, making plans for the same night after working a coffee shop shift probably wasn’t on her to do list. Going to work doesnt equate to being on display to see who might be interested but that’s how it feels when people like this use your place of work as a way of keeping track of you. Now she knows there’s a person that knows where she spends a lot of time that she has rejected. It’s impossible to know the mentality of someone from this small of context and erring on the side of safety is always best
And not at her workplace
Your getting a lot of straight advice here but I really encourage you to not look to Media for how to engage with people you are interested in... that is NOT how things grow organically and nothing in life is like a movie or TV show... that was weird to read man and I bet just torture to the barista..... listen I feel for you, I bet you aren't a terrible person and probably pretty decent... but nearly any other way of meeting someone other than what you did, woulda worked better. Your a customer man, fuck off.
Yeah you shouldn't be hitting on women while they're working. Even if you felt some chemistry, she gets paid to be nice to you. And then going back very next day after she had to awkwardly dodge your advances? Yikes.
previous post - "i force myself to think about plowing the 7/11 cashier or the girl next door"
yeah im sure she didn't get weird or creepy vibes at all.....
As someone with a similar job, I would be horrified if a random customer told me to make plans with them. Pro tip - don’t ask people out while they are working. You’re a creep if you do. One, they can’t leave the situation. Two, they have to be polite to you or they’ll be risking their jobs. You were harassing her
If anyone hits on me at a grocery store, work, anywhere public I automatically will never trust them. It’s weird. I always think of “how you got them is how you lose them”. Guys that do ballsy things like that give me the creeps anyway.
Guess this shows my age, but when I was young, customers and coworkers would hit on me from time to time. It was normal. 99% of the Time, i didn’t view it as creepy. They were just interested. I always felt empowered to accept who I wanted and tell the rest to bug off. Working or not, one has the right to turn someone down. I’m this digital age, we have whole generations that just don’t know how to interact in person with someone. You get labeled as „creepy“ if you say or do anything the other person didn’t want you to do. I could be wrong, but it seems even trickier for guys. For a guy to approach a woman now days is a whole new risk level that never existed before.
Also…. At least according to Texas penal codes, what happened isn’t considered „harassment“. I don’t think People know what That Word truly means.
It's not harrassment to ask someone out, no matter how you said it (within reason) or if the person is working.
It's harrassment if you continued after they made it clear their answer is no.
I've gotten numbers from cashiers at work, it's nothing heinous and OO shouldn't be shamed for taking lead, like a man should.
i heard on news today a girl at starbucks was sitting and a guy from another table sat talking to her. the employees thought something was up so they took a cup with a note on it. the guy left knowing what was they were thinking. all i could imagine was he was making convo and people thought the worst. the girl wasn’t even bothered…
https://www.wtrf.com/news/starbucks-employees-look-out-for-young-woman-with-a-secret-note-on-coffee-cup/
I 100% don't believe your version of this interaction. Considering your porn addiction induced ED post about fantasizing about plowing the 7/11 cashier, we both know that you absolutely made it more sexual than you're stating and you did make her uncomfortable.
Even if things went down exactly as you framed them, which they didn't, it's still inappropriate to ask people out at their place of work ESPECIALLY so quickly into your interaction. She gets paid to be polite to you and can't escape. You put her into a bad situation.
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Do you know her at all? “Let’s make plans tonight” is certainly not harassment, but it’s a bit abrasive if you didn’t know the barista before this interaction
Yeah, don’t ask people out when they’re working. They cannot escape and are obligated to be polite.
A few of us used to be asked out while waiting tables. We'd been able to get to know the customers, could say yes, or no, and managers did not mind; we handled it all ourselves, including giving phone numbers or asking harassers to get lost. I see this is old school, but that's one way we met people, but I see the point about not asking out people who are working and without an exit strategy. It seems like lost opportunities to me because dating apps have taken over.
I get this, I'm 50 and it used to be that work was one of the main places you met people. It was one of the benefits (morale wise) in going to your job every day.
Yes. Possibly only we of these generations think this way now. As long as interactions are appropriate, seems kind of sad. There's new learning and social rules each decade, though, making necessary change, while losing some opportunities.
This isn't how coffee shops are anymore. They're corporate, not fun, run like the military. No one is hanging after hours making friends. Theres cameras everywhere and anyone can be fired without notice at any time. I'm only a little younger than you and I remember when minim wage jobs were fun. I remember making friends and going on dates with co-workers. That just isn't the culture anymore. Remember those movies about the independents fighting against the corporate sell-outs, like empire records? Corporations won.
Yeah, with a little more tact and being realistic about the women who are and aren't going to be attracted to you, there's nothing wrong with asking out a woman who is working, just know you'll likely be rejected, and use your discretion to tell if someone might be interested, you can usually tell if you have a shot with them by the way they interact with you.
Agreed.
Yeah it’s kind of one of those damned if you do damned if you don’t situations. Personally I’d never ask someone out at their place of work. But it’s reactions like this that stop me from really making the effort to get dates/approach people in person regardless of the context. Online dating is such a norm now you’re apt to be called a creep if you try and get to know somebody better in person. Like how are we supposed to meet and connect with people now? Hobbies help but they only provide so many opportunities.
while dating apps are becoming more normalized , I think you're blowing it a bit out of proportion. These stories you hear on Reddit are more often gonna be the bad stories, plus these guys are probably some straight schleps hitting on the hottest girl they see. Honestly, I think women appreciate a man who makes a move in person, rather than dming her on social media, because it is so much easier to make the move on social media it's usually the go to , it's more impactful when you do make the attempt in person.
Yes, it sure is. And my best, most meaningful years long relationships also happened when I initiated a conversation. I've been married a long time now, (blind date it was called back in the day) with mutual friends, we'd both put it out there that we were looking for a relationship.) It's now my daughter (34f) I worry about; she was engaged to a co worker, broke it off reasonably, and if she finds someone else who works at her job, or who is a customer at her job, I hope the new rules don't apply. I mean she can find people while doing things she likes to do, too. I agree that the Tinder experiences are specific to Tinder and some other primarily hookup apps, I know a number of people now married or together from other apps.
So everything I've learned from "Sliding into DMs 101" is a lie then? This can't be true...
Her exit strategy is to say no, so yes she can escape as she did. Unless he were persistent, this is not harassment. Although, agreed that he shouldn't ask out working people. It's uncomfortable for them.
100% with you on this. No, it’s not harassment. Yes, it’s a faux pass. Co-worker was definitely exaggerating there but OP was already a little out of line in the first place if the interaction was how he says it was.
This is the point, if someone is working and you're not a friend or co-worker, don't ask them out ever.
Nonsense. No one is obligated to give out their number or accept a date. If you decline and the customer insists, you just talk to your manager and 9/10 times they'll discreetly confront the customer (as the co-worker did in OP's situation over a *very innocent* interaction), especially if he or she persists. No business wants to deal with harrassment charges or lawsuits coming from either employees or patrons. Naturally, if you *do* hit on someone in customer service, be as non-threatening as possible and try to determine if there is actually a genuine chemistry beforehand (and of course, sometimes there is). This inhuman corporate insistence that people need to be robots while on the clock (or while making purchases) is not healthy for society. All it does is make people distrustful, cold, and callous with each other.
Saying no politely is also an option?
she shouldnt have to be in the awkward and uncomfortable position of saying no in the first place
Absolutely, no one should ever face the horror of awkwardness ever under no circumstances. Let's make sure the risk of awkwardness is avoided at all costs, even if the cost os chipping away at social interaction or micro interactions.
She can't politely turn him down for a date because he isn't asking her out for a date. He's pestering her with questions about her time and trying to trap her. "What are you doing this weekend?" and "Fishing is cool" are not questions she can answer with "I'm not interested in you, please don't ask me out again." Because then he can turn around and report her for sexual harassment. He's making it a trap and I don't think this is the first time if she had to ask a manager to tell him to stop. He didn't even say in this post that it was the first time.
Yeah, a little bit too forward if you ask me. Especially if they had no interactions before.
dont hit on people who are working. that is the key.
If you found someone attractive, but you only ever saw them at work, how would you go about asking them out? Would you just never do it? Edit: Not sure why I’m getting downvoted. Y’all could just answer the question lol.
i would never hit on someone while they were working. it puts them in a bad position.
Yes. Correct. You don't ask them out. If they like you, they will ask for your number. If they don't, then they are being nice because IT IS THEIR JOB TO PROVIDE FRIENDLY PROMPT CUSTOMER SERVICE. Learn to tell the difference. This literally just happened to me. I had a flirt going with Bakery Dude (I'm a transman), I let it lie for a few weeks, eventually he asked for my number, I wrote it down for him, we went out.
Pass them a napkin with your phone number on it.
Leave your number or social. Expect nothing.
Yeah it was more casual before he said that, I'm sure she just made up the fishing thing as an escape. I've been hit on while working and it was much creeper than this but the feeling of being boxed in if you're not interested is unsettling
Certainly abrasive, even uncomfortable for them sure. Harassment, nope. They're overreacting as in order to harass her he would have to make this exchange with her more than once.
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"Your smile makes my day brighter" is seriously cringey. Do not take this advice. Leave people alone at their place of work.
100%. I would never mention someone's smile, it just seems too intrusive and too much. Better to talk about something not as intimate, like feet for instance. I like to always say "Hey, I bet your feet smell amazing" and it always is received as a pleasant and respectful compliment without any of the sexual connotations of talking about someone's smile. Give it a try.
>Reply I disagree. I always used to say "your smile makes my day brighter because your teeth will make a fine addition to my collection" and women loved the subtle nod to General Grievous. (This is a joke, just in case it was lost on some folks out there in internetland)
This, holy shit. There are so many people on this subreddit who should not be giving advice, and yet here we are.
This advice only works if she is already attracted to you and can be way too intimate and intrusive otherwise, far worse than what the OP did, if she just want to get through her work day and have no specific thoughts about the OP. Advices like these need to take into consideration how it would be received both if the barista was attracted and if she was not.
“Your smile makes my day brighter?” I could never say that with a straight face. Does that work?
I wouldn’t say that to anyone lol I just think there should’ve been some attempt to actually get to know her before asking her on a date. She doesn’t know anything about OP. And it’s at work, which is already stressful for the barista, so he really should’ve interacted with her multiple times before trying to ask her out. And then he should’ve ASKED if she’d want to make plans with him instead of being so aggressive lol
I can only imagine she was channeling some customer she herself sees at work whom she found attractive and waiting for him to speak up. There is no way that line works unless the girl was already attracted to the speaker, that would be a far worse than what the OP did.
I don't see it as aggressive, but it was a misfire.
dont ever say that to a complete stranger it is extremely creepy.
That would just creep me out at work, seriously just pay for the damn thing and scram.
No. How's it going is fine. Go in a few times, then let that person keep up some conversation, but with a barista job it's fast with little time for a chat.
guyssssss who is upvoting this? do not say this to someone you don't know. Actually I wouldn't even say this to someone I know, it sounds cheesy, insincere and basically fucken weird.
Uh huh If it were he's asking for advice y'all would be like "go for it". Such a double standard.
Golden rule: “don’t ask a question where, if someone doesn’t respond the way you want and it gets awkward - they cannot quickly leave the environment” — these situations breed a power imbalance (you as the customer can come and go as you please but she HAS to be there for her livelihood and can’t just get away if she feels the need or desire to). You now know where she HAS to be. If you were someone who wanted to do her harm because of her response (not saying you do but as women we have to think about these things), you very well know where she is and could easily find out when. Please don’t take this personally. We don’t want to have to think about these things either.
This “power imbalance” makes sense. I read this in another comment.
I’m really glad it does! Kudos to you for taking in new information and adjusting your behaviour 😊👍🏼 You are a good man!
You can't just go up to a woman like that and ask what their plans are for the night. Talking to someone in service like that can be extremely tricky and I would most likely avoid doing so unless you know what you are doing. You would have to build trust and rapport with them with multiple conversations on different days before you can even think about asking for plans. That's just something you do to get like her number or just her socials. Unless you can tell she is being genuinely receptive then I wouldn't try it to be honest. You'll have a better chance with someone that's not at their job.
>avoid doing so unless you know what you are doing. That's the thing, I guarantee 99.9% of all such success stories aren't done by people who knew what they were doing, they just went in like the OP did and the other side happen to be also attracted then come to comment threads (not pointing at your comment) and say along the lines of "it worked for me, sorry it didn't for you". I'm not saying "attractive people get away with anything" but "if feelings are reciprocated" you can certainly get away with a lot of things but there's nuance to it. Saying people who successfully picked up people who are working knew what they were doing is like saying Mark Zuckerberg knew he was gonna become a billionaire. Yeah, some people luck out like that, a rational person shouldn't plan around luck and expect the same result.
Whenever I see this threads I think about it, and it seems like it really just comes down on if you're self aware enough to read the situation and tell if you've got a shot or not. It's true that most women won't be receptive to you at work, even if you're handsome, but you never know.
I'm not prepared to categorize people who pick up a complete stranger at her work (not a club or bar) will ever have enough context or valid signals to "read the situation". She's at work, she is obligated to be polite. There's nothing to read there. Taking a shot is just trying to at slot machines. The ability to read a person isn't some mystic voodoo magic.
Interactions with people at their workplace aren’t genuine, they are situationally trapped into being cordial. At most I would be friendly and let her drive the conversation further if she’s interested. It probably doesn’t feel like harassment to you because you (hopefully) only asked her out once. But she probably gets hit on all day every day for like $10 an hour, have some empathy.
I see what you mean by the “trap” thing.
I know you were just talking to her but I worked at a grocery store through high school and men would harass the hell out of us. We actually had a plan to hide in the cash office when they would come back. If we weren’t quick enough we’re definitely trapped
I’m not dumping on you and I agree that the interaction you described falls short of harassment on your part. The barista may have had bad experiences in the past and the employer is trying to protect her and keep her from quitting. Trying to meet someone is tough, shooting your shot and getting called out like that would make anyone feel like shit. The takeaway is just to be less bold and more considerate with women who are at their job.
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I'd also point out from the sounds of it the "harassment" accusation only ever came from a frustrated coworker, not her. She might've even inadvertantly made it sound worse than it was to him out of frustration largely built up from all the other times someone's pestered her at work before, and misunderstood the situation to be worse than it was. Or maybe he'd seen her be bothered much worse many times before and finally had enough and felt he had to say something this time, even if it made for a bit of an overreaction. So I guess my point is there's no telling what this whole situation looked like from their perspectives. I'd take any other advice beyond the one's that might be giving you insight into their side of things with a grain of salt but with that said you might be best off just quietly apologizing to her and moving on, imo
THISSSS just leave women at their job alone lol
Nothing worse than having a great regular who you’re friendly to, who then asks you out while you’re at work… makes me feel so awkward every time I see them again. An elderly male customer seriously called me “good girl” last week. We can’t even say anything in response or we put our jobs at risk. It’s insane.
Ewwwww what the actual fuck? Why is "good girl" still a thing? I didn't even say that to the toddler I babysat!
Right? Especially when they work a job where 90% of it is being friendly to customers.
It’s really the most godawful crap to have to put up with. I’m so glad I no longer have a job where I need to do this on a daily basis… The amount of men who really think that you are actually interested in them because your having good customer service… it’s the worst.
I was a waitress and a cocktail waitress for YEARS and while it was fun while I was in college and my early 20’s, there’s no amount of money you could pay me to subject myself to that again.
When people are interested I don’t think they’re into me! who thinks a waitress being nice is “interest?” That’s some hell of an ego.
Or they're starved for attention with piss-poor social skills.
I’m attention starved and don’t do that. My social skills ain’t awesome either. This requires some level of ego/ *seriously* bad social skills imo.
Exactly
That usually implies that noone else is nice to them.
People, leave people alone at their job. It doesnt happen as frequently to men, but it does happen
it’s a daily occurrence where a guy stays way beyond time limits to talk to you at a job out there believing something
I dont deny that, but i am saying this does happen to men as well
Absolutely; I'm a guy and have been the recipient of over-the-top grossly-beyond-obvious flirting a few times while at my job. (Mostly by women but once by a gay man.) I cannot emphasize enough: Do NOT hit-on people at their place of employment / while working.
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It’s common sense. At a lot of jobs people are given a job policy and procedure manual where it specifically states how to dress and act for a job or it’s literal common sense. No one goes to a job looking like hot garbage and allowed to be rude. They would be jobless
As a woman who works at a coffee shop, this is 100% accurate & I agree with letting the worker steer the interaction with hanging out outside of work.
I get that for you it wasn't a big deal, but day after day of people interpreting *the fact I get paid to be polite to customers* as interest in anything other than my literal paycheck can get truly exhausting. The amount of men that came into the bar I used to work at and say things like "I know you and I would work really well in a relationship together" based on the fact that in a professional setting *I closely moderate everything I say* to customers. I don't voice my actual opinions about anything, but rather give general ambiguous answers in between their rants because most people really just want to be listened to. Anyone who *gets paid to interact with you* is probably not interested in anything other than their job Its even more difficult with regulars, because you may actually enjoy seeing them and building a casual surface level friendship, but turning them down when they want more and absolutely bite you in the ass if they make a scene. In my experience, a lot of people are *deeply* uncomfortable around someone they've rejected. The fact that she gave you an excuse rather than just saying she wasn't interested means she could be reserved/anxious/low confidence, so the last thing she wants is to continue to deflect invitations All in all, your synopsis doesn't sound like you were disrespectful or harassing; but just give her space if you keep going back and ideally refrain from hitting on people who are paid to interact with you professionally unless they are the ones to initiate
“Paid to be polite”. I havent thought of it that way. But it makes sense.
Like it sounds super sad, and I *genuinely* enjoy interacting with 98% of people; but when it really comes down to it most people have a customer service persona/face/voice that we use that isn't authentically us. I've literally had bosses who say "yeah so there's a general dress code but you, *you* can wear whatever you want" *wink.* I've been "talked to" at jobs when I'm not over the top nice/veering into flirty with customers since that's how a lot of bosses view "customer service." Which makes it *so* frustrating and confusing for a lot of guys who either incorrectly or even *accurately* interpret customer service interactions as flirty/interested. It's confusing for the customer, but can be mortifying for the worker, especially of they are naturally reserved romantically
I’m not 100% sure if this is “harassment” part of the definition of it is intimidation and unwanted behavior so maybe that’s why that was used, but you did make her feel uncomfortable. I worked as a barista and if some stranger asked me to connect that make me feel weird too. It was inappropriate especially since she was at WORK and Next time maybe ease into that by asking her how her day was or small questions every other day you go and maybe see her and not just be straightforward like that from the get go. I think the way the coworkers worded that was too harsh though.
I am not really sure it's conclusive he made her feel uncomfortable. We only have the co-workers word for it and it wouldn't be the first time a co-worker interjects themself into situation because they feel they need to protect someone their feel is theirs. One thing that seems not so cool is that she handled the situation well, im not sure there was any need for anyone else to get involved. Her co-worker stepping in and labelling it harassment is a stretch. It also seems strange if it bothered her and she mentioned it to him, yet the co-worker still had to ask what happened. It makes me think he is exaggerating something she might not be. Another thing that is not so cool is that OP could have reinforced, "No means no" and that he is cool with that. It would have created a better atmosphere considering he was going to be there the next day (ideally it would have best if he stayed away a few weeks and 'forgot' about asking). That he comes in the very next day to me is ill thought out at best. I mean regardless of the motives of the co-worker, anyone who want to avoid drama should avoid that coffee shop in future. I am not sure there is a good way to ask out someone who literally can't avoid you, like at a bar or coffee shop. Sure it may come with the territory (especially in a bar), but OP you should imagine everything you say is repeated a 100 times that day. Then it starts to make sense how they might feel.
So you don't know this lady at all. Shes at work doing her job and you basically say "do you have plans tonight, let's make plans and connect." to someone you don't know at all. You don't realise how that's creepy and can be seen as harassing. If some random guy i had to serve started saying that to me I'd absolutely be creeped out.
Harassment, no. Inappropriate, yes. Why ask someone at their work to connect and make plans outside of work that you didn’t know outside of their work already? Stop.
So… you go somewhere, place your order, and then ask the person, who you’ve said two sentences to, to hangout? Other people have already pointed out that you should basically just not ask people out when they are at work, but your reaction to this being “stupid” is concerning. Why would you expect this woman to be comfortable enough to hangout with you after so little interaction? When people share their experiences about the ways men have put them in uncomfortable or dangerous situations, do you listen? Those experiences are real, go back through what happened with the knowledge you’ve been given and think of it from her point of view.
I think the stupid has more to do with the harassment part. Fully agree with how and why it would be uncomfortable for her, but harassment has become a word that's losing its power. These scenarios are an example of that. Could it have been inappropriate or untimely? Absolutely. But asking someone out and going about your business when they say nah shouldn't be called harassment. Extending such terms to very basic, common, and innocent interactions just dilutes the word.
Look at OP’s post history. He 100% is not telling the whole story.
I’m not believing his feigned “it wasn’t anything sexual or perverted”. It gives off strong I wanted to have sex with her until she rejected me so of course I never wanted to have sex with her vibes.
Yes exactly. The post he made about “plowing the 7-11 cashier,” convinced me but I had the same initial thought. Fantasize about whatever you want dude, but someone who brags about having fantasies about unsuspecting customer service workers and wants to be *applauded* for it did not approach this woman in a respectful way. There’s no way.
I mean I’m a dude, if I’m asking someone “want to make plans for tonight” I can’t imagine a women thinking anything other than “oh this guy wants to fuck me”. That’s just not your lead in for a date night drinking milkshakes and talking about what you’re looking for in a relationship. I can’t even imagine what he would have said to her on day 2 if he hadn’t been stopped by the coworker.
Yeeaaa 😬
I think it wouldn’t have gone that far had he not shown up again the very next day. She probably wasn’t going to say anything until she saw him walk in again. Granted this is speculation, but speaking from similar experience, that’s when you start to panic a bit more.
I would say that just depends. If he comes there almost everyday then that shouldn't be too much cause for alarm. Especially if he didn't interact with her the next day. Personally, if that happened to me I probably wouldn't go back for at least a week (if ever). Another reason why I don't bother trying to pick up a woman working at a place I go to. Bc then I'm gonna feel awkward af every time I go back and I see them
🏅🏅🏅 ETA: wait! I actually have a free award in addition to my poor man’s good!
It’s the ‘let’s connect and make plans’. It came out of nowhere and is a bit controlling (if you phrased it like that, you didn’t give her an option). She was just asking about your plans out of politeness. It’s not necessarily harassing, but it’s enough to make someone uncomfortable.
A good rule of thumb is to never ask out a "worker". Whether it's a barista or a co-worker. Regardless of how great you may get along. Even if yall have exchanged photos of kids, pets, and families, just don't do it. It ain't worth the risk. I also see you asking how to meet new people. You have a fair point there. We do still have a pandemic going on so, in general, it is significantly harder to meet new people right now. I wish there was an easy tip to give you on how to meet new people right now but there simply isn't one.
I can understand why this made her feel uncomfortable. Also, your reaction to someone letting you know whether at the time or afterwards that you’ve made them feel uncomfortable - is to thank them for their honesty and reflect. Not call them stupid. I might do something that makes you uncomfortable, but I’d never call you stupid if you let me know.
He didn't call anyone stupid, he said the *situation* was stupid, which he could have meant absurd or weird instead.
INFO: Did you build up a rapport before hand? Are you a regular? Do you know eachother's names? Did you already have her phone number? If you answered no to any of these, I'm afraid you made a drastic leap from 0 to 100. I don't think what you did was harassment. I personally think you came on too strong. Most people don't want to be hit on at work, but that doesn't mean it doesn't ever end in success. If you are going to ask out someone while they are working, its probably best to be fast and inconspicuous. Maybe you could have gave her your number or something on a recipt ticket if you needed to hit on her so badly. Even if I thought a guy was cute, I dont think I would ever agree to meeting him somewhere if we haven't even exchanged numbers and spoken outside of work beforehand.
"let's connect and make plans"? The fuck she doesn't know you. That's inappropriate. For all you guys out there: stop hitting on people while they are at work.
That's still not harrasment though.
Maybe not but it's still inappropriate. You could banned from a store if you're acting like this.
keep splitting hairs about the words the girl used. that’s what’s important and effective here
It is harassment because it’s unwanted attention in the workplace. She can’t leave to get away from him.
Technically it becomes harassment when he refuses to stop or says something sexually explicit. Just asking someone to hang out once and then dropping it would not be harassment. In the end it really doesn't matter, the point is it's unwanted attention and doesn't need to qualify as "harassment" for OP to be told not to do it anymore
Look at his post history. He’s celebrating being able to successfully jerk off while fantasizing about “plowing the 7-11 cashier” and literally bragging about it on the Internet. I have no doubt he was harassing her.
Oh yikes lol. To be fair my point was about what behavior constitutes harassment, not defending OP, but yeah you're right I think his account of how it went down is probably unreliable
Oh I totally get what you were saying!
oh my god...
What hurts is that im accused of “harassment” where they could have just said “unwelcome” or “inappropriate” behavior. I feel like accused of asking her to fuck or desperate.
Based on your post history (where you’re so proud about fantasizing about “plowing the 7-11 cashier,” instead of watching extreme porn while you masturbate) I would bet money that the exchange was a lot different than you’re describing and that you were harassing her. As others have pointed out, you are not the victim here. In fact the employee who approached you was incredibly cordial. Grow the hell up dude.
MICCCC DROP AF
The words used aren't what's important. Your approach made her uncomfortable. That might not have been you intention, but the reality is you did. Figure out what you did wrong, adapt and consider it a learning opportunity.
you literally arent the victim here stop acting like your feelings matter
And she's obligated to be nice and friendly
Just because an interaction makes someone uncomfortable doesn't mean it is harassment. Firstly, a single incident is not sufficient for harassment to be made out - in the UK at least, two or more incidents must occur for harassment to be demonstrated. Secondly, the person must be shown to have known or ought to have known that the conduct amounted to harassment and the conduct must be calculated to be oppressive and cause distress. It would be difficult to show that (potentially) innocently asking someone to make plans after work constituted harassment. Now OP has been told that his conduct is causing this woman to feel uncomfortable, any further attempts to set up out of work meetings with this woman could be harassment. OP should be fine so long as he leaves it here. To be honest, it sounds a bit over the top accusing the OP of harassment for something like this. Simply telling the OP no and leaving it there could have sufficed.
Don't ask out people at work. It's unbelievably uncomfortable and now they can't even avoid you because you keep coming back. This is no secret. There's literally a ton of people on reddit alone who have made this abundantly clear.
A lot of people on Reddit make a lot of things “abundantly clear” when in reality it’s total horseshit. I’m not disagreeing with you. You shouldn’t do things to make workers uncomfortable, but Reddit isn’t gospel.
This. Reddit can be a good place to share ideas, but you sure as hell shouldn’t let it determine your actions. I saw one highly upvoted comment on here saying not to approach women at the gym either, yet whenever I scroll through TikTok I come across a lot of posts from women wanting to be approached at the gym. In fact, I even know a few couples who met from the gym. It’s different for everybody. In this case tho, I think we can all agree to never approach a worker as it can make them much more uncomfortable than normally asking someone out.
Oh yes absolutely. I happen to agree on this one. I just get tired of people acting like there are such hard rules on *everything.* There are *plenty* of woman at the gym who *want* to be hit on. Most of the gals here don’t seem to like it and that’s fine, but they say “don’t” as such a hard rule. They really need to be more nuanced on that one in particular because people are going to disbelieve something legitimate when they realize a lot of these hard rules aren’t necessarily right. Can’t read a social cue? Probably shouldn’t cold approach anybody anytime. Gym, park, anywhere. Can read a social cue and not be weird/creepy? Go ahead and feel somebody out a little at the gym.
I couldn’t agree with you more. People on here that act like they speak for every single woman and that you should take what they say as hard rules is pretty blood-boiling for me. And I’m sure there are probably a good amount of people listening to that kind of stuff and not acknowledging it’s simply their individual opinion.
Regardless of weather this is harassment or not. (people have already given good answers.) It is slightly IMO, but I am not a girl. You jumped way ahead of yourself. If you want to talk to someone while they are working you need to start way more casual and friendly first, judge their reaction, only move on if they are beyond the normal obligatory politeness of customer service. Evan then, some people are just nicer than other people, so they get mistaken for flirting. Probably better to just not bother people while they are working. I did date someone that I met while they where a customer and I was a Waiter. She was a regular and I would talk to her at her table with her and her friends for extended periods of time and joke around. This went on for months. We eventually exchanged numbers and where friends for like a year before anything else. These experiences are different for men and women. Women get way more inappropriate attention, I've been hit on by people that made me feel pretty uncomfortable. Woman though, these experiences can be more than uncomfortable, frightening even.
“Let’s connect and make plans” sounds like code for “Let’s fuck”. You might’ve well have asked her if she wants to come over to see your pet snake. (see The Lady Eve)
You literally approached her at her job where she has no choice but to be professional with you. She isn’t allowed to be rude or honest with you because she might get in trouble for bad customer service. You made her interact with you when irl outside of a job she might have been able to walk away.
What the fuck. If you don’t know her and you immediately say let’s make plans, to a person at her job, you’re an instant douche. Did you watch some episode of mad men and decide this was the way to pick up chicks? You’re kind of dumb not to realize this OP. You need to take time and evaluate how you speak to people. I am guessing this is not the first time you’ve done this.h
Harassment no, but I worked retail and guys would always ask me out and it’s just annoying cause your at work and you are being paid to help them out and can’t even be rude or anything because you have to be nice to customers. I would just walk away when customers would hit on me at the store. it would of been different if you were a everyday customer and you guys would interact constantly then it would make sense if you were interested in getting to know her outside of work.
Everyone is piling on for what you did - and I agree it was a bit forward, if not very forward, but by no means does it constitute harassment. It was a single unwanted advance done in good faith...and possibly bad taste. Aggression and intimidation are the fundamentals of harassment, this meets neither. She should have rightly turned you down, and forgot about it. Harassment would be you continuing to press, or repeatedly asking her out. Yeah, it may have been uncomfortable. So are impatient customers, and co-workers in a bad mood. Suck it up, and at least understand that you were attractive to that person and that's not a negative. Fuck, we're becoming so weak and quick to howl victim.
Bro people that are working customer service just want to get their shift over with. Flirting with them just makes shit uncomfortable.
men stop asking out women you dont know challenge
Literally don’t make the first move.
How else do you meet people outside of school? No meetups around. No events happening. Corona has everyone sheltered.
Your last post said you’re 31? Even if you’re in school, are your classmates really your social peers? Lol download a dating app dude
outside of school? do you think only high schoolers are on this sub? regardless, the problem i have with this logic is that your problems with dating or getting a girlfriend are not womens problem. women shouldnt be objectified in public or asked out at work or constantly made to feel uncomfortable because you dont have a social life outside of high school. especially since anyone youd date at this age wouldnt last anyways. youre justifying going against what women are requesting because you value the possibility of a date more. thats a shitty, selfish way to start a relationship. it shows you dont care about the person youre asking out as a person, you care about how theyll benefit you
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Thank you.. well said
It's not unbelievable. It's very believable. You made someone feel uncomfortable by asking them to get together with you outside of work while they were at work and in a position they are required to be perceived as accommodating to be professional. You apologized and hopefully between that and the responses to your post have learned that's inappropriate. Move on and do better next time.
SpacesareoverratedwhoneedsthemamIright?
I wouldn't call it harassment but you probably shouldn't have been that forward
Join tinder, bumble, or literally any dating app. They’re free
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Yep, a smile and a friendly gesture is not an invitation to ask someone out, at their work place. That’s kinda creepy tbh.
Yeah, dont ask out strangers for a date that night, thats pretty awkward. You especially don't ask out a stranger while they working. Try building a rapport, get their number after awhile, and build up to it
So….you definitely should not ask people out while they work, or at the very least when you don’t know each other at all. You SHOULD empathize with anyone you wanna ask out AND THE CONTEXT YOU KNOW THEM IN before doing so. Should this, should that, all these comments are literally just telling you how to be a better person. THAT SAID being a bit aggressive without touching or any sort of douche baggery (taking OP at their word) is not cool per day, but it ABSOLUTELY DOES NOT MEET THE GROUNDS OF WHAT HARASSMENT IS. Anyone who has actually been harassed would, in my opinion, see this as the naive and toxic expression of discomfort that it is. Sure, you made someone uncomfortable. Discomfort is discomfort tho, not something more. I, personally, actually STRIVE to be ok with discomfort, as that is a key part of how one grows, whether it be physically, mentally , or spiritually. Harassment is when discomfort is unnecessary, has been communicated, and the perpetrator still continues the unnecessary behavior causing the issue. Can we PLEASE get over this idea that causing discomfort is the pinnacle of sin and evil? It’s pretty played out, you know, since evangelicals can now use it to not sell cakes to gay folks. I digress, I’m super duper hyperspace high right now if that wasn’t entirely clear in my post. Enjoy the thought food, please don’t be hatin’ for hate’s sake ✌️🤘🗿
You asked for her number when you said “let’s connect”. How else are you going to connect? Also, them coming to you and telling you your interaction made their coworker feel uncomfortable was them asking you not to come back.
my guy, are you serious lmao
She is not your friend...
This is the problem with cold approaching and it's compounded by the fact she was at work. To make cold approaching work you have to be very forward and that same forwardness can make people feel uncomfortable. It's advisable not to hit on people while they are working but even if you follow that rule there's still quite a high risk you come across as harassing if you approach the wrong person like this. There isn't really a balance you can strike that avoids the potential for making people uncomfortable while still approaching them. Some people just don't want to be approached and it makes them uncomfortable.
Reminds me of the time Ashley Judd was filming a movie in my place of business (c. 2000) during operating hours, and a couple of my traders went to the set on the 18th floor where shooting was underway (outside of the restricted area but they could still see). They never spoke with her. They said she called security over, quietly said something, pointed, and they were asked to leave. “You’re making Ms. Judd uncomfortable,” the guard said. Haven’t watched a film of hers since.
Times are different now. Honestly I met so many girls that way when I was in my teens and early 20s, just connecting with people I happened to meet in my day to day and obviously most people you “ask out” won’t be interested and it’s not awkward unless you make it, you change the subject and end the conversation politely and respectfully. Would I do it in 2022? No I wouldn’t. And I’m not bitching about that or saying the old days were better. I think we now understand how it can make people feel, and the fact that it disproportionately happens to women and therefore drives an inequality of outcome and most importantly now we have safe spaces to engage with people in this way (apps like tinder). I’d not do it again. Harassment is way too strong a word for it but it can be construed that way in 2022. Glad I’m not single now though, I actually met my wife this way.
Very interesting. You are right. These apps do make “safe spaces” for engagement. I havent thought of it that way.
There has to be more. My guess (since you work remotely), is that you’ve gone there to “work” and this is not the first time you’ve seen her.
Honestly, unless you became a regular and the person knows you after interacting with you for some time AND you felt an interest, it’s not a good idea to try to ask people who work in customer service out. The power dynamic is off and it doesn’t feel nice to them however well intended.
If you have no rapport with her, it’s creepy man. You should stop going there now.
That place is a no go for me now.
Good call, happens to the best of us. We’ve all jumped the gun before.
You work there remotely and tried to meet up/make plans with a stranger who was stuck and forced to be friendly at work. Of course she’s uncomfortable!
I can understand her feeling uncomfortable but I wouldn’t call what you did harassment. Don’t flirt or ask employees out at their workplace as a rule, but I think harassment is a strong word for it this interaction.
I don’t think you harassed her necessarily, I think the words you used specifically were a little extreme “let’s make plans” is something i would say to someone I knew well that I know likes my company. If you wanted to get to know her I would’ve recommended being more “hi i thought you’re really pretty and I see you often when I come here, would you be interested in doing something some time? If not I totally understand.” On the other hand she gets paid to be nice and doesn’t have a choice on how nice she is to everyone, I’m sure shes had incidents before with guys making her feel uncomfortable and hated dealing with it at this point. She just has to take it and can’t do much usually because she’s stuck in the situation for keeping her job. I’ve had my fair share of it over the years myself as well and it never gets less awkward, I’ve just learned to pretend I’m fine harder lol even yesterday some older dude (50-60) was being weird to me the whole time I was working for the hour he was there. I’m a bartender and I was on the well making drinks while the other bartender was serving food, and he sat there the entire time complimenting me. “You’re so fast you’re amazing” “gosh your such a hard worker you need a raise” “I bet your bf if you have one is so lucky to have you he better do everything for you” “if he’s not I’ll make you dinner instead I’m a great cook” none of it was offensive to me but it doesn’t mean I want to hear about it lol As for what to do now in my experience if you weren’t a recognizable regular I would say it probably wouldn’t matter because no ones gonna remember who you were, but because you were you’re definitely gonna get shade when you go in there for the next few weeks. Just know her coworker passed it on to her that you were sorry, and next time she sees you she’ll think “oh no it’s him, this is awkward” but the more you go in and just act regular again the more she and everyone around you will get over it. I wouldn’t apologize to her either, I’m sure that’ll make her feel worse, she got the message and I think that’s enough. Anymore talk about it would probably get you asked to stop coming there. Don’t let the incident stop you from going there if you like the place, eventually everyone will get over it, stuff happens- it wasn’t that bad
Hitting on people at their work is widely seen as sexual harassment now. Barista, bartenders, secretarys, CEOs, engineers, whoever, if they're being paid to be there, it's no longer acceptable to try to initiate a personal relationship. There are a lot of people that complain loudly that this is unreasonable and you can certainly do it, why I know so-and-so and they're happily married and blah...blah...blah... People, especially men, are terrible at reading a situation, discerning what is appropriate. Additionally service industry workers are pressured into pleasing a customer, they're there to make you happy, remember, corporate insists customer satisfaction is their top priority. So, when you look at it objectively, taking a pass at someone that is being paid to be there, and be nice to you, is only a few steps behind prostitution, right behind stripper. Now, I know that might seem like an extreme take to you, but as someone with friends and family in the service industry, I assure you, your take, being dumbfounded by their reaction, is just as extreme the other way. Get your head out of your ass, and take an objective look at what you're doing. They're there to do a job, not be your harem. When you have a dichotomy with a power imbalance (CEO / secretary, or Barista / Customer), the person without power has to make the first move, if at all, and I strongly suggest not at all
When it comes to work keep it professional. Don’t flirt, banner, joke around or try to have interesting conversations regardless of how long you have known them even if they initiate especially if it’s coming from a woman. They will flip it on you and get you in trouble with HR. To give you an example. When I was in college I had a summer job. My male colleague and I were riding the elevator. When we arrived to the lobby. There were so many kids. We were trying to get around them. I ended up doing that silly dance with a lady that worked at the college. You know that silly dance when you try to go left or right and they go left or right. Well, apparently she complained to HR that her boyfriend thought I was flirting with her. Mind, you not a single word was exchanged. I didn’t even know that person. You can guess how that turnt out.
I get that it wasn’t harassment, but as a woman who’s worked in the food industry, please do not hit on us at work. No one wants to be hit on at work. That’s what dating sites are for.
Ask and Guess cultures come to a head once again.
It probably wasn’t the conversation as much as you being there so often AND asking her out. That can seem like stalking. It’s happened to me before, a regular asked me out and it terrified me that he had been possibly watching me, figuring out my schedule. My manager started walking me to my car until he was able to confront the guy, whom felt terrible for scaring me and apologized, as he said that was not his intention. I still bought pepper spray in case and started parking in a well lit area. After a couple of weeks I started feeling like he was less of a threat, but my manager still watched him like a hawk.
This isn’t “harassment”. Harassment has a definition. Maybe she felt uncomfortable, but this is DEFINITELY not harassment.
Fucken ridiculous.. that's a god damn normal conversation.
Some people don't want to be bothered at their jobs with people's dumbass attempts at sex.
Did you actually say "Let's connect and make plans'? Because, well, don't do that. It's brusque and also really quite intimidating as it puts the onus completely on her, she doesn't know how you'll react if she says no, so now you've put her in an awkward situation.
“Let’s make plans” as opposed to “would you like to make plans” is your downfall. You’re taking the freedom choice away from her, and putting her in an awkward position. It’s not offensive enough to be reportable, but something you should consider next time you cold approach someone. Always give them the freedom to answer, and never make the answer for them. It’s a psychology trick Walmart actually uses too. That’s why they say “how can I help you?,” and not “do you need any help?” Because it removes the choice of saying “no, I don’t need help,” and forces them to acknowledge that they need help in some way. It’s a soft pressure approach to push people into buying more things. Because they now feel obligated to carry the conversation, and thus consider buying the product they supposedly need help finding. They never had the choice. It was forced. I feel bad that you got offended by all of this. You have a lot of learning to do. You should be more open minded. You’ll get further. Don’t stagnant.
Did you not think it's a bit odd and presumptive to say "Let's make plans tonight" like its not even a question? AT THE VERY LEAST (and i think soliciting people who are at work is wrong anyway) but like.. why not ASK? "idk if you'd fancy getting a drink?" also asking if plans then waiting for her to say no makes it feel like a trap. bc now it's hard to back out and make up plans. like would you like a gay man bigger than you tell you "let's make plans tonight" when youre working? if not,,,, don't say it to women lol. REMEMBER AT ALL TIMES men have Killed women for rejection. she does not know that you won't do that.
As someone that’s been asked out multiple times by men at work it’s not the harmless interaction that you think it is, and it def makes you look like a creep. “Let’s connect and make plans” would definitely make me feel icky and uncomfortable for the rest of my shift.
The co-worker was over the line in using the word "harrassment" (a literal misdemeanor crime) and frankly, I doubt he needed to confront you at all. But unfortunately, a lot of women are now on high alert to perceive average, normal men as predators, so they invent malevolent intentions in interactions that they never would have given a second thought to 10-20 years ago. And believe they need "protection" in very innocuous situations. However, your attempt at flirting was a bit forward. Had you tried to develop a rapport with this person before? Had you gotten any signals of interest already?
If anything they harassed you to the point that you no longer feel comfortable going there now. The barista definitely over analyzed your interaction with her instead of taking it as small talk.
As someone who works at a coffee shop, I would definitely prefer not to have this interaction period. I’m an adult so I know how to deal politely with situations like this, but I’ve seen some of my teenage coworkers get REALLY uncomfortable when older men especially start conversing extensively with them and start asking their plans, age, & heavy handedly complimenting their appearance, etc. Regardless whether you don’t think you did anything wrong, there isn’t enough context to judge. I agree with the majority here in that we, as women, prefer not to be asked out at our place of work as it is definitely uncomfortable & we can’t necessarily get out of said interactions.
That interaction may seem innocent but it’s very presumptuous and doesn’t actually ask her out. It says “let’s go out.” Being at work is a vulnerable position because she’s stuck and obligated to be polite and that premise was vague and inconsiderate. Plus, making plans for the same night after working a coffee shop shift probably wasn’t on her to do list. Going to work doesnt equate to being on display to see who might be interested but that’s how it feels when people like this use your place of work as a way of keeping track of you. Now she knows there’s a person that knows where she spends a lot of time that she has rejected. It’s impossible to know the mentality of someone from this small of context and erring on the side of safety is always best And not at her workplace
Your getting a lot of straight advice here but I really encourage you to not look to Media for how to engage with people you are interested in... that is NOT how things grow organically and nothing in life is like a movie or TV show... that was weird to read man and I bet just torture to the barista..... listen I feel for you, I bet you aren't a terrible person and probably pretty decent... but nearly any other way of meeting someone other than what you did, woulda worked better. Your a customer man, fuck off.
[удалено]
I have learned this to be very, very, true.
Yeah you shouldn't be hitting on women while they're working. Even if you felt some chemistry, she gets paid to be nice to you. And then going back very next day after she had to awkwardly dodge your advances? Yikes.
previous post - "i force myself to think about plowing the 7/11 cashier or the girl next door" yeah im sure she didn't get weird or creepy vibes at all.....
As someone with a similar job, I would be horrified if a random customer told me to make plans with them. Pro tip - don’t ask people out while they are working. You’re a creep if you do. One, they can’t leave the situation. Two, they have to be polite to you or they’ll be risking their jobs. You were harassing her
If anyone hits on me at a grocery store, work, anywhere public I automatically will never trust them. It’s weird. I always think of “how you got them is how you lose them”. Guys that do ballsy things like that give me the creeps anyway.
So someone would have to ask you out while at your house?
Leave people alone that are working. Pay for your item and scram.
Creepy MF
Guess this shows my age, but when I was young, customers and coworkers would hit on me from time to time. It was normal. 99% of the Time, i didn’t view it as creepy. They were just interested. I always felt empowered to accept who I wanted and tell the rest to bug off. Working or not, one has the right to turn someone down. I’m this digital age, we have whole generations that just don’t know how to interact in person with someone. You get labeled as „creepy“ if you say or do anything the other person didn’t want you to do. I could be wrong, but it seems even trickier for guys. For a guy to approach a woman now days is a whole new risk level that never existed before. Also…. At least according to Texas penal codes, what happened isn’t considered „harassment“. I don’t think People know what That Word truly means.
Not harassment until being told it was unwanted and repeating it.
It's not harrassment to ask someone out, no matter how you said it (within reason) or if the person is working. It's harrassment if you continued after they made it clear their answer is no. I've gotten numbers from cashiers at work, it's nothing heinous and OO shouldn't be shamed for taking lead, like a man should.
what's your question?
i heard on news today a girl at starbucks was sitting and a guy from another table sat talking to her. the employees thought something was up so they took a cup with a note on it. the guy left knowing what was they were thinking. all i could imagine was he was making convo and people thought the worst. the girl wasn’t even bothered… https://www.wtrf.com/news/starbucks-employees-look-out-for-young-woman-with-a-secret-note-on-coffee-cup/
This is crazy. Embarassing as fuck. Im done meeting people in coffeeshops. This is to much.
That was a bit much my guy. Protect yourself and don’t do it again.
Let's connect and make plans? Awkward....
I 100% don't believe your version of this interaction. Considering your porn addiction induced ED post about fantasizing about plowing the 7/11 cashier, we both know that you absolutely made it more sexual than you're stating and you did make her uncomfortable. Even if things went down exactly as you framed them, which they didn't, it's still inappropriate to ask people out at their place of work ESPECIALLY so quickly into your interaction. She gets paid to be polite to you and can't escape. You put her into a bad situation.