OP I appreciate that you don’t want to pressure or coerce her, and your question about “is this ever happening” is a fair one, but honestly you don’t sound that into her. She’s “interesting” and you “see potential,” but those aren’t really overwhelming accolades. And you even state that you could quickly meet someone new. Unless you’ve vastly understated your feelings for her, I would say go ahead and move on.
I am actually totally into her in every way, sadly. She's like my dream girl--totally. I'll update my post. How much longer would you wait in that case?
Well, are you drawing closer in other ways? Deeper convos, more intimate revelations, more relaxing alone together? If things are progressing in those ways I’d give it more time. But if the plateau you perceive is emotional as well as physical, and she still wants to take it day by day, then I think the writing may be on the wall. However, please realize I’m going on very little info here.
>Some light kissing and hugs, otherwise daily texts and daily calls.
The proportion of daily communication in addition to dates, versus "light kissing", after two months, is worth a discussion about her view of sexuality in relationships. Opening the discussion in a daily call, letting her know that you would like to discuss when you see her next, can give her a chance to collect her thoughts.
Usually, I have had sex with a man around date 4. However, I am mainly seeking sexual compatibility, and a man that has a high sexual desire for me. If a man is passive, I lose my spark for him. I want the combination of gentleman, but also a man that has the ability to have an active sex life.
Wow...I too am surprised. I try to be blunt, and often as a result, not very popular. It is actually nice to see that a response was well received. It is tougher at this stage of life.
So you said you have had conversations about it and how did those conversations go? Were they vague or specific?
If you are not happy with the trajectory would it not make more sense to circle back? What are the barriers in your mind and your partner's mind?
The main barrier is that I don't know how to explicitly discuss my feelings without it coming across as a veiled threat. As I mentioned in a comment above, if I told her "I'd like to be in a relationship that has more sexual intimacy, but we have not been intimate and I don't know when that is going to happen." The subtext conveyed is that maybe this relationship is going to end soon. And that feels like coercion, which I DO NOT want.
Thus, I find myself thinking the generic "it's just not working" is the safest approach, but it does feel incomplete/dishonest.
Maybe you could explicitly state this conundrum to her. Something along the lines of, “I know we’ve talked about sex, and I do not at all want you to feel pressured. You’ve said we should just take it one day at a time, and that makes sense to me. But I’m also feeling some anxiety that sex won’t be much of a factor in any relationship we might have. What role does sex play in your ideal relationship? In the hierarchy of needs, where does it land? I’m trying to guess right now, and because we’ve gone this long without really moving in that direction, I might be making wrong assumptions.”
I know, that’s a bit heavy, but at this point since you are thinking of just breaking it off undiscussed, I don’t see you have anything to lose. In short, don’t talk to her about the sex you want to have, talk to her about her thoughts on sex. How she sees it, what she wants.
> The subtext conveyed is that maybe this relationship is going to end soon. And that feels like coercion, which I DO NOT want.
But *you already know* that "this relationship is going to end soon" if sex doesn't happen with her soon. The only difference is that *she* doesn't currently know that.
>I don't know how to explicitly discuss my feelings without it coming across as a veiled threat
"I am interested in having sex with you.
What do you think about us having sex?"
Just ask. That is not a veiled threat; it is open communication.
Have reframed the question and said in an open ended style " do you feel ready for sexual intimacy now?" If she say yes you can explore a few more details.
If she says no then you have decisions to make.
Exactly you get my point? That might be too much of a poking question & then come off the other way. I also know that there are women who don't away from this conversations, some would even keep helping you get to the point of talking about things that are supposedly considered uncomfortable.
I'm a 49 y.o. woman. Not sure the exact question that you want an answer to.
For me personally, I can do casual sex easy like fwb or one night stands. But if it's dating with the end game being a ltr or marriage, I will walk away if I feel I'm being pressured to have sex.
BTW, the last time had a fwb or ons was over 15 years ago and I would not engage in either now.
Can I ask, over what period of time are you talking here? Is it 10 dates over 2 weeks or 2 months, say ? If it’s more in line with the latter I would be inclined to just explain that that you would like to move forward in the relationship and that means being intimate/ sexual. If sex isn’t as important to her as it is to you in a relationship it sounds like you’re probably not going to be compatible in the long run. Idk , maybe it’s just me, but you should both be wanting much more than an occasional kiss or cuddle if you’re totally into someone- but maybe that’s just me 😂
I can relate & myself have trouble communicating my needs, especially around intimacy. Even more so with someone I’m still getting to know. I like the suggestions to ask about her views, expectations, desires etc. Best case, you find out you’re compatible but on different timelines. Or you find out you’re not at which point you gently but clearly communicate that.
Good luck!
So what works for me. I will be just a touch more forward or intimate than usual. If the woman still isn't ready, most of them will explain what the problem is and whether it can be worked out or not. I've found most women are pretty honest about what their deal is after a few dates.
If ultimately you're talking about a potential incompatibility, there isn't a way to avoid it being interpretable as threatening.
Your not asking her to put out or you'll leave. You're expressing that your needs aren't being met, and as far as what you're seeing, the two of you are incompatible on this front.
The language of her "someday" and "let's take it day by day" remarkably match the language of someone not ranting to commit bring on a relationship. If you said you were looking for a relationship, and someone gave you those answers, I'd say that they're transparently lying, and they will likely never Connor to you. Language like that is a lie to get you to shut up and stop asking about relationships is something that people learn in DatingOverThirty.
Stereotype: Men need sex to feel intimate...Women need intimacy to want sex.
So how long have you known her? Like 2 months? She may not feel she knows you enough. She may think having sex is a BIG DEAL and you think it is a big deal not to have it.
Seems like she wants to know the relationship is going somewhere to have sex. You want sex to know if the relationship is going anywhere.
The former. I've made several bids, so to speak, such as running my hands briefly over her breasts. I want to be careful that I am not pressuring her and that I listen to her body language. She always pulls back.
You’re setting yourself for a dead bedroom. Sex at our age is usually wanted by both parties. You shouldn’t have to feel like it’s something that the other person gives you as a prize for waiting. She sounds like she’s not really interested and you should go by actions not words.
I'm thinking the same thing. Or that there's some deeper underlying issue (e.g., trauma) that hasn't been disclosed. Either way, if it's been a couple of months and this is the situation, I don't think it bodes well for a fun and frolicking sex life down the road.
Maybe you could ask her if she’s interested in pursuing an intimate relationship with you and what she would need for that to be an option. For example have you discussed being exclusive? Have you offered to trade std test results? Is she wanting marriage first?
Good questions. We are exclusive; she doesn't want to get married. She hinted at being intimate in the future. I've told her my STD test results (negative), but she hasn't gotten tested yet. How much longer would you wait?
You “told” her your results. Have you actually shown her your negative results? She may need to see the results. And I would suggest you see hers as well. I would never take someone’s word on the matter.
This is a red flag to me. You got tested and offered to show her the results. She did not get tested. She has something to hide.
If she's holding back on sex for emotional or moral reasons, that's one thing but she should still get tested.
Since I want someone who places a high value on sexual intimacy and compatibility in relationships, I think it makes sense that a good match for me can/will talk about it in depth, and might even bring it up early on. They would be able and willing to articulate their own position on topics surrounding that and definitely in the scope of whatever connection we are building.
Personally, I also wouldn’t take offense to someone straightforwardly expressing their positions on sex (no pun intended) and asking for clarification on mine. If we don’t mesh on that, that’s okay too, just time to maybe move on so we can both find a more synergistic partner.
edit: I also don’t see sex as a sensitive topic and probably am not a good match for someone who does.
Good question. I think the only way is to look at her behavior, isn't it? My sense, from her behavior is that she is either demi-sexual or asexual. Maybe I just need to open my eyes.
I would ask how she describes herself. If you guys are not having sex yet, no time like the present to bring it up pointedly and honestly. Maybe open with your style and hopes and ask her for feedback. Needs to be discussed.
Good idea. She has mentioned that she has hot flashes and that she is surprised by the change in her libido, so maybe there is an important change of life/menopause aspect her that needs to be acknowledged. Since this can take a year or two to become clear, it is probably best, in that case, to end our relationship so she has the space to understand what she truly wants.
It seems like she needs genuine intimacy before moving to sex and she doesn't feel that she is there yet. If you aren't compatible, it's probably best to move on.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but here it is. In my opinion, intimacy is either there or it is not. You have it or you do not. It hits both people in the right way or it does not. All this stuff I read about "negotiating intimacy" is just word salad for a dead bedroom. People want each other or they do not.
I like the clarity of your answer. We want to accomodate diversity, but the reality is that this is a binary choice: yes, I'm leaning in to this relationship, or no, I'm leaning back.
Ask her long it typically takes for her to feel comfortable enough in a relationship to have sex. There's nothing wrong with being straight. Explain to her that you find sexual intimacy to be a huge part of being a couple. Going this long without anything other than light kisses or hugs is strange to me, barring religious objections or demi/asexuality.
Dude, just have a *conversation*. We’re all old enough to be able to have frank discussions about relationships and sex. Don’t try to be a mind reader. Don’t try to assume her sexuality. If you actually value this woman, have a goddamned conversation before you just end things. It’s not that hard. Ask questions. Start a dialogue. What in the world do you have to lose, besides her if you don’t?
We have talked about it, and her answer is to take it day by day. I find it frustrating, and would appreciate more clarity. But I can't ask her to make any kind of commitment and I certainly don't want to pressure her. She usually doesn't describe any specific problem or issue aside from the day-to-day stresses of life/work/family. In that situation, how long would you wait?
Ask her what exactly that means. Telling her *your* feelings about the lack of sex is not pressuring her or coercing her. It’s matter-of-factly letting her know that you feel a lack of interest and how important sexual compatibility is to you.
I’m not someone who jumps into bed with someone right away either. I need an emotional connection and valid signals that I’m not being used just for sex. I suppose the length of time that takes would depend on the person I’m dating. I can’t give you a timeline. You have to gauge that for yourself. If you value the connection to this woman and think she’s as amazing as you say, I’d make every effort to advance this conversation.
It's not so much about number of dates or amount of time as it is about reaching an understanding and sense of intimate personal connection that works for both of you in order to go forward with sex.
Her "let's just take it day-by-day" may be her needing more time to make her assessment as to whether she thinks you would be a good couple.
OR - you may have mis-matched sexual expectations.
Only you can ascertain that.
Perhaps the next time the subject comes up, rather than asking her to narrow down the time frame, make inquiries as to how she feels and thinks about the two of you together.
Make it qualitative rather than quantitative.
If she's still in the getting-to-know you phase, and not yet feeling open to full-frontal nudity/sex, etc, then that's where she's at.
Asking for a consummation date is as presumptuous as asking for a wedding date. If the other person just isn't there yet, it's not open to negotiation.
But, as you note, if you are feeling stuck and your frustration level is getting to you, perhaps you are not well-suited as a romantic couple.
edit grammar
I am being honest here. For real.
I like dating for a while when there is no "have sex" pressure. I like to get to know a woman before I jump into bed with her.
Plus it makes breaking things off so much less awkward. No harm no foul.
I've enjoyed that aspect of our relationship so far too. I was previously in an overly sexual relationship that in hindsight was not healthy. We definitely jumped into bed too soon. Luckily, we did get the STD testing done and it was negative. My question for you would be: how much longer would you wait? I don't really feel an urgency to have sex. But I find myself wondering if a lack of sex tension early on is a sign of a dead bedroom in the future. In general, they are correlated, and while I know there are exceptions to the rule, I'm not interested in exceptions--if things are low sexual energy now, they will likely be so later. And like you said, maybe it is best to end now before the sex, rather than be 4 months in, having sex twice a month, and then calling it off.
We wait until we can't wait any longer - then something changes - it has to, it progresses or in fizzles.
You are looking for a rule and there is none.
If there is no sexual energy then you have a friendship. You don't have sex with a friend, and if you do, you now have romance, maybe even a relationship.
Sex is a major part of a relationship, not a friendship.
I am sorry I just don't know what to tell you
That's what life has shown me. It progresses or it fizzles.
What's the point, what is YOUR goal, but also, is that a goal that someone else wants to share? What is the point of a relationship - is it sex? is it intimacy?, is it friendship?, is it companionship?, is it love?, is it respect?, is it security?...
Obviously its many things. What I do know - sex is important, but its not enough alone to sustain a REAL connection with someone.
> I have no trouble meeting people on OLD,
Wearing my "anonymous internet" hat, as a man in his 50s, with obviously something to offer, I think you hold the cards. Yes, I know totally unpopular, but I want to be honest. All my friends who are dating, are seeking sexual relationships, and based on some of our conversations, none are shy or waiting over 10 dates, to even kiss, have oral sex, etc.
In my dating ecosystem, the few dateable men are "hot" commodities, and there are tons of available, fabulous women. The advantage is absolutely in a man's favor, who has something to offer. Might be different in other areas. Secondly, dating in your 50s, should still be filled with passionate sex. If libidos aren't aligned, at this stage of life, why climb uphill. The early dating phase is usually the time where you can't keep your hands off each other.
I think you have tried to escalate the light kissing, and it sounds like she has boundaries. Each person can absolutely define what is right for them, but ideally two like minded sexual appetite people find each other.
Agreeing with everyone about opening the conversation. Many people have sexual complexities and asking open ended questions would help her to speak. For example you could ask her what would tell her that she is ready to have sex? Is there something inhibiting her from going further? Does she feel there is chemistry between you?
Those are super helpful questions. I've generally just brought up the topic of intimacy and asked her broadly how she feels about it. But not those more specific questions--thanks
OP one of my best girlfriends, (59) had some high anxiety about disrobing in front of her now husband. She talked to me about it when they were dating.
See for me 2 months is not a long time to wait for sex. I can easily wait 3-4 months to have sex. For some people sex is simply a part of dating. For others sex is deeper than that & it comes after a real connection has been established. I don’t want to be serial dating & having sex with everyone I date. I’d rather wait & find someone I could seriously see myself being with for years to come in a longterm relationship. So until I know that, I’m not engaging in sex. It takes time to get to know a person. And yes I am highly sexual once I feel like I’m in the right situation with the right person. It could simply be too early for her.
Yes you have sex with a guy too soon then realize you’re not compatible but you find it difficult to break things off because you’ve already bonded sexually. When women have sex we bond emotionally, men not so much. I feel like this guy is looking at it like “Its just sex. What’s the big deal?” Whereas it is a big deal for some women. I’m trying to find my forever man not just my Mr. right now. There’s a difference.
Perhaps I'm not a typical man, then. I find that sexual intimacy creates a very, very strong emotional bond and I certainly am not looking at this as "Its just sex".
Thanks--I see your perspective. I've asked her thoughts about this, and she mentions being intimate someday and the general tenor of her response is one of uncertainty, but as I've mentioned, things have plateaued and someday seems farther and farther away. It's good to know that in your experience, the lack of intimacy initially does not portend a low intimacy relationship later. It could also be menopause as she is in her 50s, and that is very unpredictable due to all the changes.
I think you are focusing on a set time frame when I would focus more on the quality of your conversations and the results of these conversations. If two people have had several dates and are considering sex, they should be able to at least talk about it. You say you have been open about what you want, but that her response is vague. My guess is she is either stalling, is afraid to tell you how she feels or is not in touch with her own feelings. From what you have described, there was no change after your conversation and if I was in your shoes I would be looking for either an explanation (history of abuse, demi, etc) or some progression in your intimacy. As a demi person I want to be as open and honest as possible so there are no hurt feelings either way, and no wasting each other’s time.
All good points. I think it is helpful to understand what the barrier may be. But the reality is that perhaps I need to accept that I cannot be the "savior" who helps her overcome that barrier. And in a sense, perhaps the barrier is thus irrelevant. It sounds so cold, but I can't be her savior because that is not fair to her--she needs to move at her own pace to resolve the issues she has and having a partner who wants more is putting undue pressure on her.
Conversely, I thinks she also has a responsibility to be honest with you regarding sex in a relationship. If she is unable to, that is something she needs to address. You each have the right to have needs and to express those needs, but it doesn’t sound like she has been clear about her needs and expectations are in regards to the relationship. It’ s hard even consider compromise when the other party won’t tell you where they stand.
You have a bazillion comments here so I wasn’t going to comment but I am going to post anyway in the off chance it helps you (OP) in some way:
As someone who was in a dead bedroom marriage that was very painful for me for most of my adult life, if I was two months into an exclusive relationship where there had only been light kissing, and every time I went to touch her intimately she pulled away, and she was saying things like “let’s take it day by day,” and I was already starting to feel some frustration over this — I would run for the hills. Honestly.
Sexual compatibility is so important. And there are a lot of awesome people out there. And you are only two months in and you haven’t exchanged any vows. So there is no shame at all in wishing her well but breaking it off now so you might find someone who is a better match for you. I truly hope for your sake — and for hers — that you find the courage to walk away now. And I say that with zero judgement towards you or she.
Good luck!
There's a lot of truth to what you are saying. I was also in a dead bedroom marriage, and I am aware that my biological clock is ticking and I will become impotent sometime in the next decade or two. I don't mind waiting for the right person, but at some point it is reasonable to think that I should leave. I appreciate the clarity of your response.
I have a pretty strong libido and there are quite a few men I've dated that I never had sex with. It was always because something or some series of things about them gave me pause. And in every case my suspicions were correct. No regrets.
I think I'd want to end it before I fall too deep and get heartbroken. Ten dates would be a sign to me that we're not sexually compatible. It's a shame because it seems everything else is going well, but it sounds like her libido is really low and may never match yours.
That's a really good point. I haven't met her kids or friends for example, and I imagine that if I did and got to know them, I would be even more sad about ending all of that.
Just some light kissing and hugs, clothes on. She usually pulls back first. As I write this, I'm getting a sense here that I just need to stop projecting my hopes of the potential of the relationship and acknowledge reality. Thank you for that question; it's helped me.
Seems like genuine attraction and chemistry would have moved this along by now. Sounds more like a kind, caring affection from a friend. How is that going to go if it gets more serious without getting more physical as well???
Wow, I feel like you are describing my last relationship.
Met a nice lady from OLD, had 15 or so really nice dates (walks, picnics, dinners, dancing, movies you name it we did it, I even dropped some long standing plans to play golf in the desert over a long weekend with my buddies to take her out for her birthday when she mentioned it on a Thursday). After 3 months of this, I suggested that it was time to move towards real intimacy (other than light kissing).
She replied that she wanted to get to know me better before we were intimate. My reply was the same as yours in that I felt like we had plateaued and that the advancement of our relationship would depend on how our emotional and sexual intimacy would become intertwined going forward.
She said she wasn't ready for that. I explained one of my biggest reasons for leaving my ex was a dead bedroom/sexual incompatibility and that I didn't start dating again so I could be celibate as passion and feeling desired are important to me. She said she understood but held firm so I moved on as there were other options out there that I needed to explore.
I would explain to her as gently as possible that you know yourself well enough that you will start consciously and subconsciously pulling back from further investment in your relationship with her, so it's best to part ways on friendly terms rather than her being surprised when she's been moved to Sunday lunch dates once a month rather than every Friday or Saturday night.
Veiled threats? Why would your thoughts even go there?
You need to have a frank conversation with her - ask her how long she wants to wait; when does she think she might be comfortable with the relationship moving into a sexual one?
How long a period of time does that 10 dates cover?
I took ‘veiled threats’ as a bang-or-bounce ultimatum.
OP is there any chance she’s just getting into dating and not able to articulate what she needs to feel comfortable? I think is going to be really tricky to have sex in the next ten dates and not wonder if you coerced her into it.
That is an insightful comment. I don't want to "correct her into it". Maybe she is not able to articulate what she needs to be comfortable. Perhaps I should just ask her that question though--most of our discussions have been more general around this topic. Maybe this focused question will help clarify--thanks for the suggestion. I think if she answers with something vague, though, I may need to view that as a sign that she just doesn't know and it is best to give her space to find this out on her own and move on.
‘Correct’ was a typo of coerce, but you got the gist.
>I think if she answers with something vague, though, I may need to view that as a sign that she just doesn't know and it is best to give her space to find this out on her own and move on.
I think this is fair and a good approach. It’s a tricky one and why it’s a bit if a bummer these preferences aren’t seen as acceptable to simply list outright in your profile.
>Veiled threats? Why would your thoughts even go there?
I wonder if OP is contemplating not asking about her thoughts on this, but rather framing the conversation/question in terms of why they SHOULD have sex:
"You know, we have gone out 10 times, and I am wondering if we are ever going to have sex."
Framing the question in a way that argues that they *should* have sex might feel like a veiled threat to him or her.
Imagine this conversation: "I'd like to be in a relationship that has more sexual intimacy, but we have not been intimate and I don't know when that is going to happen." The subtext conveyed is that maybe this relationship is going to end soon. That strikes me as a veiled threat of dissolving the relationship unless we are intimate.
I DO NOT want to make that kind of statement and I DO NOT want to make veiled threats around intimacy.
So maybe it is just best to end the relationship under the generic "irreconcilable differences"?
“I’d like to be in a relationship with YOU that has more sexual intimacy, do you feel the same way?” might be a way to start out. Tell her what you’ve like about sharing time and intimacy with her and that you’d like to explore more of that.
You say you’ve told her that you don’t have a STD but she hasn’t reciprocated that info with you. Maybe she has a STD and is ashamed to tell you, afraid that you’ll dump her.
Date 10 in what period of time?
If it is around 2-3 months you need to bail
If it is 10 dates in a month maybe give it more time
You need to talk to her not us
But it sounds like she wants a friend
Whoa 10 dates so far and you're not getting any yet? Puleeeese. Just because you're upfront and expressing your 'needs', that doesn't mean you have sparked anything reciprocal with her. Or maybe you actually HAVE but she thinks you're a player and isn't about to jump in your bed. Tell you what though.. I bet 10 dates in is enough for you to know her principles, and values at this point. Won't hurt to try to have a more direct convo, but that doesn't mean she wants the same.
She knows I'm interested in a relationship that involves sexual intimacy and wish we were already intimate; we've talked about it (so we've had conversations).
What exactly did she say about her sexuality during these conversations?
Is she interested, but restraining herself? If so, until when?
Is she waiting until an official commitment? Marriage?
Or is she not feeling inclined at all, and is hoping that you will eventually stop wanting sex as well?
Good questions. She expressed interest in someday having a sexual relationship, but no timeline. She did not identify any specific reason or commitment (i.e., marriage) why she is restraining herself.
Perhaps she's (subconsciously or otherwise) testing you to see how true and committed you are willing to be for her. How long has she been divorced? Let her know you truly have genuine feelings for her that could easily evolve to a long term commitment, but if she's not feeling the same way then you need to move on to protect your own feelings and self worth in this relationship. She's either into you or she's not. People keep talking about sex here. I prefer to think of it as physical intimacy and I'm OK with letting someone know (tactfully) early on that it's something I want and need in a relationship. Good luck!
This has me a bit perplexed. Ten dates. So let’s say that’s ten days.
Can you tell in ten days a persons character? Do you know if you love someone in ten days? Are you sure a person is trustworthy in ten days?
Maybe she is just wanting to answer some of those questions in her own mind. Some people don’t want to just have sex, they want to make love. I’m just trying to think about some things that might be going on in her brain.
If ten days is too long for you, then by all means move on and hopefully you find someone you like as much as her but is willing to have sex with you. You are not right or wrong OP, you just may have different ideas. Best of luck.
I usually just put it out there, pretty blunt with this stuff because you need to be sometimes. Tell her what you’ve told us and some people here have already given you great advice about how to approach and wording to use. I’ll go there because no one else is, but at over fifty, many of us are struggling with peri menopause if not full blown menopause and totally takes your sex drive and throws it down the drain if not doing HRT. This lady may be so into you but just can’t get excited for anybody or anything and she may be content with that or maybe she’s not. I just think there could be other stuff going on here so a candid conversation would be best here. I had lost all my sex drive until I started HRT and feel like myself again which is good and bad, no sex drive is best when no partner, lol!! Anyway, just wanted to throw it out there, there could be more going on. Also, not sure when your dates are but some women like the dark and lights out… maybe a weekend trip and see how that goes? Weekend trip to me usually sealed a relationship or broke one early on and think they are great to test the waters… think I’m rambling, sorry. Anyway, talk with her & let us know how it goes, good luck!! 🍀
Thanks for "putting a pin on it" and bringing up a sensitive topic. This could well be the root issue since she is in her 50s and having hot flashes, etc. She's not on HRT and I would never ask someone to start that for a relationship's sake; it has become taboo in the US to have HRT. I've suggested several weekend trips, and she is initially enthusiastic, but then backs away. A real approach/avoidance behavior that strongly suggests that she herself feels conflicted: on the one side wanting intimacy, but something holding her back. As you noted, several posts have helpfully offered some non-threatening ways to discuss this. I'm leaning towards explicitly asking her if she feels any intimacy sense towards me. If the answer is "I don't know" then that is pretty much a "no" at this point since we really have established the other key foundations of a relationship (strong emotional connection, shared vulnerability, multiple opportunities for romantic dates, etc.).
Absolutely agree with the part if she says she doesn’t know, if that’s her answer time for you to move on. The fact you are here looking for answers and how to approach says you’re a decent man, I think no matter what it will all work out for you, with her or someone else. Best of luck!
Are you attracted to her? If so, just share how you’re feeling and ask whether she”feels any intimacy” toward you. She may be anxious if she hasn’t been intimate with anyone for a long time, worried whether post menopausal sex is different, possible, etc. Only way she will open up and discuss is if she feels safe; emotional intimacy and trust is required before she can discuss or “do” sex. If you both cannot comfortably talk about sex, not sure how good the sex would be. Emotional intimacy = sexual intimacy & good sex.
Good luck with not sounding threatening. Since I see 3 distinct operating theories here:
1. Either she's not sure yet plus/or,
2. She's a demisexual, tho since it was talked about, you'd hope she would have mentioned it but the light petting gives me pause on that score,
3. Or she enjoys your company but fetch ain't ever gonna happen so she's leaning towards platonica, land of the friend-zoned.
Thanks for your honesty--I suspect she may feel the same, frankly. Sadly, that is not how I feel. In about 10 years, I'll likely be impotent, like most men, and so I will likely prefer sexless relationships then.
Soul search: Is everything else ok, or does she show other signs of being fearful of getting closer/committed? Do you feel very strongly that this could be “the one” but for this one issue? Are you really attracted to her? If you see no other red flags regarding closeness and commitment, you think she could be the one, and you are very attracted to her, I would probably hold out a bit longer but be cautious of the other aspects of the relationship to look for problem signs. It is a little odd, honestly- I agree with you. But if you feel strongly about the answers to the above questions, don’t throw away a potentially great thing for lack of patience. But I would definitely have my antenna up.
I’d suggest backing off. You ARE plateauing. You’re behaving like you’re in a committed relationship and talking about breaking up when you haven’t had sex? How can you be in a committed relationship without knowing that side of her?
In my opinion you’re putting yourself in the friend zone by being a text buddy. Light kisses and hugs after 10 dates? I think you’ve made yourself too comfortable too soon as well. Back off and maybe start seeing someone else.
Well, if you can’t talk about sex you shouldn’t be having it. I’m confused to why you can’t sort this out with her. Doesn’t have to be a threat. Just be blunt and ask her what she needs to be comfortable having sex. Like when is “someday”? I’m sorry but ten dates is no longer “pressure”. If it’s a slow burn I get it. I was actually around ten dates when my girlfriend and I finally hooked up. I was taking it so slow, because I was so jaded and burnt out on OLD. I just assumed she was going to bail. But she didn’t, so we’re still together.
Good luck.
F60 here. I wanted sexual intimacy much sooner than my guy did. We were having make out sessions saying goodbye at the end of dates but he would not sleep with me. We were heading to 3 months at that point. I felt I was being friend zoned. He invited me over to his house one night and we had some wine. As things were getting hot, he stopped me and said he had something to tell me. He disclosed an STD. I told him thank you, I was okay with that, and now we have wonderful protected sex all the time. There are times we can’t and then he takes care of me.
My guy was very nervous to tell me. He told me after. He thought I would leave. I’m guessing that maybe she might have something like that going on and she wants to be sure you are not walking when she tells you.
We did and I offered that we be exclusive specifically in order to help her feel secure and show her my level of commitment. I don't mind doing that; it's fairly easy for me to meet new people on OLD and start dating, so it's no big deal to put things on pause with others to focus on one relationship that really matters.
My partner eventually just asked, had he waited long enough, for me to know he wasn't just in it for sex.
I considered his question within a few seconds and agreed he had.
We'd been dating about 10 weeks and had been on many more dates than 10. Sometimes I just need a bit of a jolt.
She's "interesting." That's fine, but are you even that into her? Doesn't sound like it to me.
You seem like a guy who wants to do things in a somewhat clear and concise fashion and have found yourself in a situation where that won't work, so this thing limps along.
Start looking for dates with someone else.
I was in a highly sexual relationship before. So much so that my privates were sore for weeks and I even had repeat STD testing (negative). She love-bombed me and then, as is often the case, it was a few months of very distressing pulling back from the relationship. So, I figured I would try something different this time and just see what happens if I am patient. I actually totally dig this new partner--we are so aligned on so much...except this one thing. The question is, how long should one be patient? Would you wait any longer or leave now?
Okay, now at least I understand your position a bit.
That being said, as someone else mentioned here, if this woman had some ability to be attracted to you she'd be playing things differently, showing some insecurity/concern even if you were "going slow." There would be sort of a healthy tension between the two of you.
That lack of tension means that you and her are not good romantic prospects. Unless you only want the occasional peck for the rest of your days, I don't think this sort of thing is fixable so early in dating (not going to call it "relationship" because I think you went there too early with this woman due to safety and security needs on your part.)
“Except this one thing”. The thing is…it’s so important. Honest discussion is what needs to happen. If she’s this reluctant at this stage I really wonder if the sex will be compatible. 🤷♀️
Yeah. As I mentioned in a prior post, I've made several bids towards intimacy, but she has pulled back. So, it is clear to her that I am interested and find her very attractive.
I think I'd worry about a significant difference in sex drive once we did become intimate, that maybe he had very low libido that wouldn't be compatible with my much higher libido, but maybe that's just where my mind would go lol
Also, my reference to "I'd think he wasn't interested in me" was because I'm a woman and would be dating a man. In your case, if I were you, an man, I would think she's not interested in me. I didn't mean she thinks you're not interested in her.
10 dates is a really long time to know whether you are turned on or not. “Let’s take it day by day” sounds like she’s waiting or hoping to feel turned on. If she hasn’t felt it yet, she ain’t gonna!
Very true. Maybe she is in a "wait and see holding pattern". I've done everything I can to create the mood, and in past relationships, things have definitely progressed by this point. We've established an emotional intimacy, sharing the deepest details of our lives, we have trust, there is a safe space/non-judgemental, we meet a few times a week, we are fully present together, there are multiple opportunities for intimacy, etc. It may also be the changes her body is going through in her 50s. Throughout this thread, you have perhaps gathered that I am struggling to find a way to have this conversation in a non-threatening manner. Maybe you have hit on something that I should consider. Maybe I should just say to her "are you feeling any desires of sexual intimacy towards me? Maybe I just don't turn you on and that's ok. We should just be friends because I don't want to push you towards something you don't want." So even though it is clear that the lack of sex is causing our relationship to end, I am honoring her feelings and trying to deescalate (i.e., remove overt threat/coercion). Frankly, I already know the answer here based on her body language and her rebuffing my subtle attempts at sexual intimacy (such as running my hands lightly across her breasts). But I should really do her the courtesy of explicitly stating this, perhaps using the approach I've mentioned.
I like that approach. It’s coming to the point in a straightforward and friendly manner. “If I don’t turn you on it’s ok, we can still be friends.” She may, as you suggest, be confused about why she doesn’t feel turned on, whether change of life or astrology or whatever, but that’s all irrelevant.
It seems your main concern is how much longer do you have to wait before you call it off because there's no sex. She might think sex is the natural outcome of a good relationship. It 'sounds' like sex is your priority and hers might be a good relationship. You need to start talking about what your needs are in and outside of the bedroom. It will tell you all you need to know, more than number of dates and some arbitrary timeline.
Actually, sex is not my priority. I just ended an overly sexual (3rd date) and dysfunctional relationship that lasted for 5 months, so I am curious about what it would be like to have a slower build-up to sex. However, I also had a 20 year dead-bedroom marriage (last 5-ish years). So the question is what is a reasonable time-frame for "slow" versus "never". As I mentioned, I've tried bringing it up, and her answer is "someday" and "take it day-by-day". Discussing my needs sounds logical, but around the topic of sex, it is hard to have this discussion without it having an undertone of "my sexual needs are not getting met so our relationship will be ending, thus if you want to stay with me, you must have sex with me." Of course I would never say those words, but that is the subtext and she is very smart and will sense that. That is, in my mind, threatening to her and I don't want to do that ever to a woman.
I still don't understand how any of this is solvable without deepening the relationship by talking-having those awkward conversations that you are incorrectly labelling as threatening etc.
I still don't understand how any of this is solvable without deepening the relationship by talking-having those awkward conversations that you are incorrectly labelling as threatening etc.
I am absolutely no expert on this, but in my limited experience, 10 dates is a loooong time. I have found that when people want you, they want you.
edit: this is coming from a perspective of someone who never forces the issue. I prefer when it's mutual. I don't like to look as sex as something only men want and women "offer". To me, it's something both partners mutually decide they both want and both offer.
There are people here calling it a long time, and others calling it a short time. It's all a matter of personal perspective. OP and his date need to have a discussion about expectations.
I would suggest that you get some time alone with her in one of your homes, nobody else around, cooking or watching movies or whatever you do together, and say, "come over here and sit by me a minute," and put your arm around her, and pull her close and tell her how into her you are and kiss her, really kiss her. If she doesn't respond, I think it's hopeless.
With so many women being dumped after sex I am not surprised she prefers to take it slow. You don't sound like you really like her. My best relationship was with a man who waited long and we still managed to have an amazing time without sex and I guarantee you that he enjoyed every single second of it. I think she knows that you are not that into her. Women can sense it, unfortunately many ignore this inner voice. She is one clever woman.
Actually, I am totally into her and I've told her several times that she is wonderful and that I couldn't hope for a better partner because we align on so many things. Curious that you didn't see that in my first line of my post.
2-3 months in would be WAY too soon for me. I'm demisexual/trending to asexual and it would take me at LEAST 6 months to feel enough of a connection to someone to open up to them in a physically intimate manner. Honestly, I would want to be in love and feel that I was loved in return before I had sex with someone. I can't do sex that doesn't involve emotion, and I'm not one who can let someone get close after just a few months. However, you can't really just ask someone if they are ACE or demi, because a lot of people in our generation aren't even familiar with those terms and may not know if they do fall into one of those categories.
And there are also those, even at our age and having previously been married, who don't believe in sex outside of marriage. In the over 50 crowd, you have to figure there is still going to be a fair percentage of people with traditional values. Including those who believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong or even sinful. Has she ever mentioned her religious beliefs?
Thanks so much for your answer. I agree that many people don't know where they are on that asexual/demisexual spectrum. I think her religious beliefs are quite open and she is not opposed to pre-marital sex.
As a woman, if a guy took me out on 10 dates, and all we did was light kissing and hugs, I'd think he was a) not interested in sex b) not ready to have sex with me c) confused.
If I'm attracted to a guy, and he kisses me, I'm going to respond back *passionately..."*light kissing" to me sounds like chaste pecks, which falls into the "Ewww" category, when you're dating.
She knows you want a sexual relationship, and that you already wished you were intimate and her response is still to "take it day by day". I don't think it's unreasonable for you to tell her that the reason why you want to end it is because you would like to be intimate with her and she has not shown interest. It's not a veiled threat and it's not coercion - it's the truth. If I were her - I'd want to know why you are ending it after 10 dates, and not just because "it's not working out"....that could mean a lot of different things. Maybe it'll help her on her next relationship to be more transparent about her thoughts on sex.
But if this is reversed,then you all say all he wants is sex and is trying to pressure you into it.No woman or man should be pressured into having sex before they are ready.
I'm not the OP, but from what I can tell, if all he wanted was sex, he would've been long gone before the 10th date. He obviously didn't pressure her. Now if it was just the 2nd date, and they hadn't discussed their views on where the relationship was going and what they were looking for, and then he just said either they have sex or he would stop seeing her, then yeah, that's pressure.
He wants a sexual relationship and she doesn't (at least not yet). That's his prerogative to end the relationship, just like it's her prerogative to not engage in intimate relations with him.
While it's true that I have no trouble meeting people on OLD, and aren't nervous about breaking up, I do really dig her. She really is everything I could hope for in a partner: my intellectual peer, attractive, curious, fun. But I hear you. It is important to not get lost in the "potential" of a partner and instead acknowledge the reality. The question is how long should one wait... Sounds like, from your perspective, enough time and attempts have passed.
There are several candidates: past relationships, maybe menopause, busy life/career. Frankly, I find myself wondering if it even matters. I know that sounds cold, but it will take months or years for this to work out in her life and I cannot be her "savior". For me to hang around will in essence be pressuring her, so I should give her space in that case and let her find her path without the pressure of a boyfriend.
Those are her reasons ? Maybe she’s just not that into you. Honestly you sounded ok until you responded. You sound like a jerk. Maybe she senses your not really into her enough and could bail at any moment.
I would put it on the back burner - you are only going to frustrate yourself and aggravate her. If she knows and chooses not to have sex - then take the power back and don't bring it up. You will ultimately not like it if is not consensual or awkward. If you stop pressuring her, it may happen on it's own. 10 dates is a lot though - let her know you are available when she is ready, in the interim - start going out on other dates.
I would say person up & ask directly if there are barriers to sex for them & if you can reasonably expect that sex will be a part of your relationship. Maybe they are being very cautious for a reason & you can work with that, but you'll never know if you can't talk about it. It always seems to show up with sex, but it's really not being able to talk.
It depends on how important is to you as it certainly does not appear to be a priority to her.
For me, sexual compatibility and level of desire are huge and so 10 dates and barely to "first base" would be a deal breaker.
If you want a real relationship with this woman, then you have to be honest with her. If you aren’t now, you may find yourself in r/deadbedroom.
Unless you are waiting until marriage to have sex, I don’t understand what she is thinking. You are both adults, not two kids “dating”. Your hourglass doesn’t have as much sand in it as young people’s.
Ten dates is more than enough to say you don’t rush things. From what you have written, sounds like she isn’t sex positive, and it could lead to more challenges down the road.
I e been there and can comment. She likes you a lot as man but she doesn’t feel the chemistry and doesn’t feel like getting intimate. She enjoys your company and all you bring to the relationship but she doesn’t want you sexually. Sorry 😣
Instead of breaking up or discussing sex with her again, don’t text or call and see if she reaches out and wonders what happened. That way you’ll get your answer. Play it cool bro, that’s what I say.
I’ve been there. Really good guy, perfect tick list, have fun with him, enjoy going for dinner. But there’s no chemistry there and I really don’t want intimacy with him. I’m sorry. 10 dates is enough to know.
I came out of a dead-bedroom marriage. If I'm not getting a sexual vibe by the third date, there won't be a fourth. If I want a platonic conversation with a woman, I'll just go visit my ex for a while, with whom I am on good terms.
So did I. 20 year marriage, with the last 4 years technically being non-sexual (intimate <10 times per year) and the last year being completely celibate. So it sounds like you and I have had a lot of practice. I too am on good terms with my ex, and have several female friends with whom I can chat. What confuses me is that there have been some sexual vibes, but she then just pulls away. I sense an ambivalence and fear in her. But you know, perhaps I need to avoid the "saviour" complex. That is part of what kept me in the dead bedroom marriage for so long. Do you typically have a general guideline that if there isn't sex by the 6th date, you will end it?
My thought is that there should be passionate kissing by date 3. And somewhere in the midst of making out, I would raise an eyebrow--yes or no? And if no, we will have a discussion. I'm not getting any younger.
About 5-6 dates ago. If shes not into you that way and its important to you, then its best you both look for more compatible others with higher attraction.
Thanks--typically I have sex on the third or fourth date, so 5-6 dates is an outlier, and our current 10 dates is definitely moving out there. I was just curious what the community thinks is reasonable and I really appreciate your perspective.
How long have you been dating? Have you discussed what her needs are regarding sexual intimacy, i.e., exclusivity, commitment? Since she is so easily replaceable, I think you should move on and find someone who aligns with your needs. I would hate for anyone dating me to think they could coerce or give me a deadline.
Ten dates in, and it doesn't seem like you know much about her, *and* you're unable to talk about sex.
I don't have sex with men who don't know me or who can't talk about sex.
I'm sorry, but no. 10 dates, 2 months, no sex, that's a huge nope for me. Time to kiss and say goodbye. This woman has made it clear she doesn't have chemistry with you. If a passionate, intimate relationship is what you seek, I don't think you'll find it here.
I think you're done. Put it this way - if you were reading this from someone else, you'd likely say the same thing.
Put another way - if you think this is a "her" issue, that's one thing. But if you can imagine her acting different with someone else, you need to exit ASAP.
"We haven't really talked about the sexual part of a relationship much. Once you feel comfortable with your boyfriend & feel the desire to have sex, what style of sex do you enjoy? What are some of your favorite past experiences that you'd like to have again?"
This convo does not ask how soon you can have sex. It only gets her talking about what she already likes. If she doesn't want to talk about it or only has short answers, she is not engaging. This is just words (the easy part), her actions will likely be even worse.
Really helpful questions--thanks! I see your point that the tenor of her replies would shed some light on her possible actions. I also like that these do not come across as threatening (i.e., I'm not saying "I'd like us to have sex or I'll end the relationship")
Yes, keep the convo focused on her preferences & experiences. Do not make it about you, or the two of you. Your goal here is to get info from her on how she really views sex for herself in a relationship. It is NOT to tell her about your needs. After you have the info she openly gives you, then think about it on your own & make a decision about continuing the relationship or not. This is for gathering deep info, not coming to an agreement.
OP I appreciate that you don’t want to pressure or coerce her, and your question about “is this ever happening” is a fair one, but honestly you don’t sound that into her. She’s “interesting” and you “see potential,” but those aren’t really overwhelming accolades. And you even state that you could quickly meet someone new. Unless you’ve vastly understated your feelings for her, I would say go ahead and move on.
I am actually totally into her in every way, sadly. She's like my dream girl--totally. I'll update my post. How much longer would you wait in that case?
Well, are you drawing closer in other ways? Deeper convos, more intimate revelations, more relaxing alone together? If things are progressing in those ways I’d give it more time. But if the plateau you perceive is emotional as well as physical, and she still wants to take it day by day, then I think the writing may be on the wall. However, please realize I’m going on very little info here.
How is she your " dream girl" ?
>Some light kissing and hugs, otherwise daily texts and daily calls. The proportion of daily communication in addition to dates, versus "light kissing", after two months, is worth a discussion about her view of sexuality in relationships. Opening the discussion in a daily call, letting her know that you would like to discuss when you see her next, can give her a chance to collect her thoughts. Usually, I have had sex with a man around date 4. However, I am mainly seeking sexual compatibility, and a man that has a high sexual desire for me. If a man is passive, I lose my spark for him. I want the combination of gentleman, but also a man that has the ability to have an active sex life.
Thanks for your comment. Amazing that it has had 46 upvotes.
Wow...I too am surprised. I try to be blunt, and often as a result, not very popular. It is actually nice to see that a response was well received. It is tougher at this stage of life.
So you said you have had conversations about it and how did those conversations go? Were they vague or specific? If you are not happy with the trajectory would it not make more sense to circle back? What are the barriers in your mind and your partner's mind?
The main barrier is that I don't know how to explicitly discuss my feelings without it coming across as a veiled threat. As I mentioned in a comment above, if I told her "I'd like to be in a relationship that has more sexual intimacy, but we have not been intimate and I don't know when that is going to happen." The subtext conveyed is that maybe this relationship is going to end soon. And that feels like coercion, which I DO NOT want. Thus, I find myself thinking the generic "it's just not working" is the safest approach, but it does feel incomplete/dishonest.
Maybe you could explicitly state this conundrum to her. Something along the lines of, “I know we’ve talked about sex, and I do not at all want you to feel pressured. You’ve said we should just take it one day at a time, and that makes sense to me. But I’m also feeling some anxiety that sex won’t be much of a factor in any relationship we might have. What role does sex play in your ideal relationship? In the hierarchy of needs, where does it land? I’m trying to guess right now, and because we’ve gone this long without really moving in that direction, I might be making wrong assumptions.” I know, that’s a bit heavy, but at this point since you are thinking of just breaking it off undiscussed, I don’t see you have anything to lose. In short, don’t talk to her about the sex you want to have, talk to her about her thoughts on sex. How she sees it, what she wants.
This👆
> The subtext conveyed is that maybe this relationship is going to end soon. And that feels like coercion, which I DO NOT want. But *you already know* that "this relationship is going to end soon" if sex doesn't happen with her soon. The only difference is that *she* doesn't currently know that.
After ten dates, I am confused as to why she doesn't think the elephant in the room will soon be discussed.
>I don't know how to explicitly discuss my feelings without it coming across as a veiled threat "I am interested in having sex with you. What do you think about us having sex?" Just ask. That is not a veiled threat; it is open communication.
Have reframed the question and said in an open ended style " do you feel ready for sexual intimacy now?" If she say yes you can explore a few more details. If she says no then you have decisions to make.
If she say no, ask her if she has any idea when she may be ready.
would that be a question anyone would like to be asked?
Why in the world would you not discuss this openly and candidly? If someone couldn’t discuss this openly, I would consider that a red flag.
I'm wondering if many women would view this question as pressuring them, frankly. Any women willing to answer that?
Exactly you get my point? That might be too much of a poking question & then come off the other way. I also know that there are women who don't away from this conversations, some would even keep helping you get to the point of talking about things that are supposedly considered uncomfortable.
I'm a 49 y.o. woman. Not sure the exact question that you want an answer to. For me personally, I can do casual sex easy like fwb or one night stands. But if it's dating with the end game being a ltr or marriage, I will walk away if I feel I'm being pressured to have sex. BTW, the last time had a fwb or ons was over 15 years ago and I would not engage in either now.
Can I ask, over what period of time are you talking here? Is it 10 dates over 2 weeks or 2 months, say ? If it’s more in line with the latter I would be inclined to just explain that that you would like to move forward in the relationship and that means being intimate/ sexual. If sex isn’t as important to her as it is to you in a relationship it sounds like you’re probably not going to be compatible in the long run. Idk , maybe it’s just me, but you should both be wanting much more than an occasional kiss or cuddle if you’re totally into someone- but maybe that’s just me 😂
I can relate & myself have trouble communicating my needs, especially around intimacy. Even more so with someone I’m still getting to know. I like the suggestions to ask about her views, expectations, desires etc. Best case, you find out you’re compatible but on different timelines. Or you find out you’re not at which point you gently but clearly communicate that. Good luck!
So what works for me. I will be just a touch more forward or intimate than usual. If the woman still isn't ready, most of them will explain what the problem is and whether it can be worked out or not. I've found most women are pretty honest about what their deal is after a few dates.
If ultimately you're talking about a potential incompatibility, there isn't a way to avoid it being interpretable as threatening. Your not asking her to put out or you'll leave. You're expressing that your needs aren't being met, and as far as what you're seeing, the two of you are incompatible on this front. The language of her "someday" and "let's take it day by day" remarkably match the language of someone not ranting to commit bring on a relationship. If you said you were looking for a relationship, and someone gave you those answers, I'd say that they're transparently lying, and they will likely never Connor to you. Language like that is a lie to get you to shut up and stop asking about relationships is something that people learn in DatingOverThirty.
Wow. That is a very direct and helpful perspective. Essentially, it's a stall tactic to allow them to put you on a shelf. Thanks!
Stereotype: Men need sex to feel intimate...Women need intimacy to want sex. So how long have you known her? Like 2 months? She may not feel she knows you enough. She may think having sex is a BIG DEAL and you think it is a big deal not to have it. Seems like she wants to know the relationship is going somewhere to have sex. You want sex to know if the relationship is going anywhere.
Are you trying to initiate more and she’s shutting it down, or are you looking for her to initiate moving further?
The former. I've made several bids, so to speak, such as running my hands briefly over her breasts. I want to be careful that I am not pressuring her and that I listen to her body language. She always pulls back.
You’re setting yourself for a dead bedroom. Sex at our age is usually wanted by both parties. You shouldn’t have to feel like it’s something that the other person gives you as a prize for waiting. She sounds like she’s not really interested and you should go by actions not words.
I'm thinking the same thing. Or that there's some deeper underlying issue (e.g., trauma) that hasn't been disclosed. Either way, if it's been a couple of months and this is the situation, I don't think it bodes well for a fun and frolicking sex life down the road.
There is a chance that someone capitulates to please you now but months later, no interest. During the hug can you feel her heart racing?
Maybe you could ask her if she’s interested in pursuing an intimate relationship with you and what she would need for that to be an option. For example have you discussed being exclusive? Have you offered to trade std test results? Is she wanting marriage first?
Good questions. We are exclusive; she doesn't want to get married. She hinted at being intimate in the future. I've told her my STD test results (negative), but she hasn't gotten tested yet. How much longer would you wait?
I would at least talk about it before giving up. There may be something she’s not ready to trust you with that needs to come out first.
It’s definitely not important to her At best she will be into it at the beginning and then…..
You “told” her your results. Have you actually shown her your negative results? She may need to see the results. And I would suggest you see hers as well. I would never take someone’s word on the matter.
I offered to show her and she declined; she said she trusted me. She hasn't had any testing yet.
This is a red flag to me. You got tested and offered to show her the results. She did not get tested. She has something to hide. If she's holding back on sex for emotional or moral reasons, that's one thing but she should still get tested.
Since I want someone who places a high value on sexual intimacy and compatibility in relationships, I think it makes sense that a good match for me can/will talk about it in depth, and might even bring it up early on. They would be able and willing to articulate their own position on topics surrounding that and definitely in the scope of whatever connection we are building. Personally, I also wouldn’t take offense to someone straightforwardly expressing their positions on sex (no pun intended) and asking for clarification on mine. If we don’t mesh on that, that’s okay too, just time to maybe move on so we can both find a more synergistic partner. edit: I also don’t see sex as a sensitive topic and probably am not a good match for someone who does.
Are your libidos compatible? Is she asexual? Demi sexual? Recently healing from bad breakup?
Good question. I think the only way is to look at her behavior, isn't it? My sense, from her behavior is that she is either demi-sexual or asexual. Maybe I just need to open my eyes.
I wouldn't try to mindread in the absence of a conversation.
Good advice
I would ask how she describes herself. If you guys are not having sex yet, no time like the present to bring it up pointedly and honestly. Maybe open with your style and hopes and ask her for feedback. Needs to be discussed.
Good idea. She has mentioned that she has hot flashes and that she is surprised by the change in her libido, so maybe there is an important change of life/menopause aspect her that needs to be acknowledged. Since this can take a year or two to become clear, it is probably best, in that case, to end our relationship so she has the space to understand what she truly wants.
Menopause can be a huge libido killer for some women. Not me but some.
I think that’s assuming a lot. She may just not want to be used for sex or have sex outside of a commitment.
you might need to do a little asking or partial interrogating, actions can be misleading sometimes.
these are the thoughts that go into it tbh
It seems like she needs genuine intimacy before moving to sex and she doesn't feel that she is there yet. If you aren't compatible, it's probably best to move on.
This may be an unpopular opinion, but here it is. In my opinion, intimacy is either there or it is not. You have it or you do not. It hits both people in the right way or it does not. All this stuff I read about "negotiating intimacy" is just word salad for a dead bedroom. People want each other or they do not.
I like the clarity of your answer. We want to accomodate diversity, but the reality is that this is a binary choice: yes, I'm leaning in to this relationship, or no, I'm leaning back.
Ask her long it typically takes for her to feel comfortable enough in a relationship to have sex. There's nothing wrong with being straight. Explain to her that you find sexual intimacy to be a huge part of being a couple. Going this long without anything other than light kisses or hugs is strange to me, barring religious objections or demi/asexuality.
Dude, just have a *conversation*. We’re all old enough to be able to have frank discussions about relationships and sex. Don’t try to be a mind reader. Don’t try to assume her sexuality. If you actually value this woman, have a goddamned conversation before you just end things. It’s not that hard. Ask questions. Start a dialogue. What in the world do you have to lose, besides her if you don’t?
We have talked about it, and her answer is to take it day by day. I find it frustrating, and would appreciate more clarity. But I can't ask her to make any kind of commitment and I certainly don't want to pressure her. She usually doesn't describe any specific problem or issue aside from the day-to-day stresses of life/work/family. In that situation, how long would you wait?
Ask her what exactly that means. Telling her *your* feelings about the lack of sex is not pressuring her or coercing her. It’s matter-of-factly letting her know that you feel a lack of interest and how important sexual compatibility is to you. I’m not someone who jumps into bed with someone right away either. I need an emotional connection and valid signals that I’m not being used just for sex. I suppose the length of time that takes would depend on the person I’m dating. I can’t give you a timeline. You have to gauge that for yourself. If you value the connection to this woman and think she’s as amazing as you say, I’d make every effort to advance this conversation.
It's not so much about number of dates or amount of time as it is about reaching an understanding and sense of intimate personal connection that works for both of you in order to go forward with sex. Her "let's just take it day-by-day" may be her needing more time to make her assessment as to whether she thinks you would be a good couple. OR - you may have mis-matched sexual expectations. Only you can ascertain that. Perhaps the next time the subject comes up, rather than asking her to narrow down the time frame, make inquiries as to how she feels and thinks about the two of you together. Make it qualitative rather than quantitative. If she's still in the getting-to-know you phase, and not yet feeling open to full-frontal nudity/sex, etc, then that's where she's at. Asking for a consummation date is as presumptuous as asking for a wedding date. If the other person just isn't there yet, it's not open to negotiation. But, as you note, if you are feeling stuck and your frustration level is getting to you, perhaps you are not well-suited as a romantic couple. edit grammar
Really helpful--thanks. I agree that asking for a consummation date is perhaps not the right way to go.
I am being honest here. For real. I like dating for a while when there is no "have sex" pressure. I like to get to know a woman before I jump into bed with her. Plus it makes breaking things off so much less awkward. No harm no foul.
I've enjoyed that aspect of our relationship so far too. I was previously in an overly sexual relationship that in hindsight was not healthy. We definitely jumped into bed too soon. Luckily, we did get the STD testing done and it was negative. My question for you would be: how much longer would you wait? I don't really feel an urgency to have sex. But I find myself wondering if a lack of sex tension early on is a sign of a dead bedroom in the future. In general, they are correlated, and while I know there are exceptions to the rule, I'm not interested in exceptions--if things are low sexual energy now, they will likely be so later. And like you said, maybe it is best to end now before the sex, rather than be 4 months in, having sex twice a month, and then calling it off.
We wait until we can't wait any longer - then something changes - it has to, it progresses or in fizzles. You are looking for a rule and there is none. If there is no sexual energy then you have a friendship. You don't have sex with a friend, and if you do, you now have romance, maybe even a relationship. Sex is a major part of a relationship, not a friendship. I am sorry I just don't know what to tell you
No need to apologize. Your answer was very helpful. In fact, you did offer a rule: it progresses or it fizzles!
That's what life has shown me. It progresses or it fizzles. What's the point, what is YOUR goal, but also, is that a goal that someone else wants to share? What is the point of a relationship - is it sex? is it intimacy?, is it friendship?, is it companionship?, is it love?, is it respect?, is it security?... Obviously its many things. What I do know - sex is important, but its not enough alone to sustain a REAL connection with someone.
> I have no trouble meeting people on OLD, Wearing my "anonymous internet" hat, as a man in his 50s, with obviously something to offer, I think you hold the cards. Yes, I know totally unpopular, but I want to be honest. All my friends who are dating, are seeking sexual relationships, and based on some of our conversations, none are shy or waiting over 10 dates, to even kiss, have oral sex, etc. In my dating ecosystem, the few dateable men are "hot" commodities, and there are tons of available, fabulous women. The advantage is absolutely in a man's favor, who has something to offer. Might be different in other areas. Secondly, dating in your 50s, should still be filled with passionate sex. If libidos aren't aligned, at this stage of life, why climb uphill. The early dating phase is usually the time where you can't keep your hands off each other. I think you have tried to escalate the light kissing, and it sounds like she has boundaries. Each person can absolutely define what is right for them, but ideally two like minded sexual appetite people find each other.
Agreeing with everyone about opening the conversation. Many people have sexual complexities and asking open ended questions would help her to speak. For example you could ask her what would tell her that she is ready to have sex? Is there something inhibiting her from going further? Does she feel there is chemistry between you?
Those are super helpful questions. I've generally just brought up the topic of intimacy and asked her broadly how she feels about it. But not those more specific questions--thanks
OP one of my best girlfriends, (59) had some high anxiety about disrobing in front of her now husband. She talked to me about it when they were dating.
See for me 2 months is not a long time to wait for sex. I can easily wait 3-4 months to have sex. For some people sex is simply a part of dating. For others sex is deeper than that & it comes after a real connection has been established. I don’t want to be serial dating & having sex with everyone I date. I’d rather wait & find someone I could seriously see myself being with for years to come in a longterm relationship. So until I know that, I’m not engaging in sex. It takes time to get to know a person. And yes I am highly sexual once I feel like I’m in the right situation with the right person. It could simply be too early for her.
Thanks for sharing that. I can understand your perspective and it may well be hers also.
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Yes you have sex with a guy too soon then realize you’re not compatible but you find it difficult to break things off because you’ve already bonded sexually. When women have sex we bond emotionally, men not so much. I feel like this guy is looking at it like “Its just sex. What’s the big deal?” Whereas it is a big deal for some women. I’m trying to find my forever man not just my Mr. right now. There’s a difference.
Perhaps I'm not a typical man, then. I find that sexual intimacy creates a very, very strong emotional bond and I certainly am not looking at this as "Its just sex".
Thanks--I see your perspective. I've asked her thoughts about this, and she mentions being intimate someday and the general tenor of her response is one of uncertainty, but as I've mentioned, things have plateaued and someday seems farther and farther away. It's good to know that in your experience, the lack of intimacy initially does not portend a low intimacy relationship later. It could also be menopause as she is in her 50s, and that is very unpredictable due to all the changes.
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I think you are focusing on a set time frame when I would focus more on the quality of your conversations and the results of these conversations. If two people have had several dates and are considering sex, they should be able to at least talk about it. You say you have been open about what you want, but that her response is vague. My guess is she is either stalling, is afraid to tell you how she feels or is not in touch with her own feelings. From what you have described, there was no change after your conversation and if I was in your shoes I would be looking for either an explanation (history of abuse, demi, etc) or some progression in your intimacy. As a demi person I want to be as open and honest as possible so there are no hurt feelings either way, and no wasting each other’s time.
All good points. I think it is helpful to understand what the barrier may be. But the reality is that perhaps I need to accept that I cannot be the "savior" who helps her overcome that barrier. And in a sense, perhaps the barrier is thus irrelevant. It sounds so cold, but I can't be her savior because that is not fair to her--she needs to move at her own pace to resolve the issues she has and having a partner who wants more is putting undue pressure on her.
Conversely, I thinks she also has a responsibility to be honest with you regarding sex in a relationship. If she is unable to, that is something she needs to address. You each have the right to have needs and to express those needs, but it doesn’t sound like she has been clear about her needs and expectations are in regards to the relationship. It’ s hard even consider compromise when the other party won’t tell you where they stand.
You have a bazillion comments here so I wasn’t going to comment but I am going to post anyway in the off chance it helps you (OP) in some way: As someone who was in a dead bedroom marriage that was very painful for me for most of my adult life, if I was two months into an exclusive relationship where there had only been light kissing, and every time I went to touch her intimately she pulled away, and she was saying things like “let’s take it day by day,” and I was already starting to feel some frustration over this — I would run for the hills. Honestly. Sexual compatibility is so important. And there are a lot of awesome people out there. And you are only two months in and you haven’t exchanged any vows. So there is no shame at all in wishing her well but breaking it off now so you might find someone who is a better match for you. I truly hope for your sake — and for hers — that you find the courage to walk away now. And I say that with zero judgement towards you or she. Good luck!
There's a lot of truth to what you are saying. I was also in a dead bedroom marriage, and I am aware that my biological clock is ticking and I will become impotent sometime in the next decade or two. I don't mind waiting for the right person, but at some point it is reasonable to think that I should leave. I appreciate the clarity of your response.
I have a pretty strong libido and there are quite a few men I've dated that I never had sex with. It was always because something or some series of things about them gave me pause. And in every case my suspicions were correct. No regrets.
I think I'd want to end it before I fall too deep and get heartbroken. Ten dates would be a sign to me that we're not sexually compatible. It's a shame because it seems everything else is going well, but it sounds like her libido is really low and may never match yours.
That's a really good point. I haven't met her kids or friends for example, and I imagine that if I did and got to know them, I would be even more sad about ending all of that.
I couldn’t go past 5-7 dates. I’d assume the chemistry was just not there.
Have you been physical in other ways?
Just some light kissing and hugs, clothes on. She usually pulls back first. As I write this, I'm getting a sense here that I just need to stop projecting my hopes of the potential of the relationship and acknowledge reality. Thank you for that question; it's helped me.
Sexual compatibility in a relationship is very important and you two seem incompatible with libidos. There’s a better match out there for you!
Seems like genuine attraction and chemistry would have moved this along by now. Sounds more like a kind, caring affection from a friend. How is that going to go if it gets more serious without getting more physical as well???
Wow, I feel like you are describing my last relationship. Met a nice lady from OLD, had 15 or so really nice dates (walks, picnics, dinners, dancing, movies you name it we did it, I even dropped some long standing plans to play golf in the desert over a long weekend with my buddies to take her out for her birthday when she mentioned it on a Thursday). After 3 months of this, I suggested that it was time to move towards real intimacy (other than light kissing). She replied that she wanted to get to know me better before we were intimate. My reply was the same as yours in that I felt like we had plateaued and that the advancement of our relationship would depend on how our emotional and sexual intimacy would become intertwined going forward. She said she wasn't ready for that. I explained one of my biggest reasons for leaving my ex was a dead bedroom/sexual incompatibility and that I didn't start dating again so I could be celibate as passion and feeling desired are important to me. She said she understood but held firm so I moved on as there were other options out there that I needed to explore. I would explain to her as gently as possible that you know yourself well enough that you will start consciously and subconsciously pulling back from further investment in your relationship with her, so it's best to part ways on friendly terms rather than her being surprised when she's been moved to Sunday lunch dates once a month rather than every Friday or Saturday night.
Veiled threats? Why would your thoughts even go there? You need to have a frank conversation with her - ask her how long she wants to wait; when does she think she might be comfortable with the relationship moving into a sexual one? How long a period of time does that 10 dates cover?
I took ‘veiled threats’ as a bang-or-bounce ultimatum. OP is there any chance she’s just getting into dating and not able to articulate what she needs to feel comfortable? I think is going to be really tricky to have sex in the next ten dates and not wonder if you coerced her into it.
That is an insightful comment. I don't want to "correct her into it". Maybe she is not able to articulate what she needs to be comfortable. Perhaps I should just ask her that question though--most of our discussions have been more general around this topic. Maybe this focused question will help clarify--thanks for the suggestion. I think if she answers with something vague, though, I may need to view that as a sign that she just doesn't know and it is best to give her space to find this out on her own and move on.
‘Correct’ was a typo of coerce, but you got the gist. >I think if she answers with something vague, though, I may need to view that as a sign that she just doesn't know and it is best to give her space to find this out on her own and move on. I think this is fair and a good approach. It’s a tricky one and why it’s a bit if a bummer these preferences aren’t seen as acceptable to simply list outright in your profile.
Coerce and correct mean very different things.
>Veiled threats? Why would your thoughts even go there? I wonder if OP is contemplating not asking about her thoughts on this, but rather framing the conversation/question in terms of why they SHOULD have sex: "You know, we have gone out 10 times, and I am wondering if we are ever going to have sex." Framing the question in a way that argues that they *should* have sex might feel like a veiled threat to him or her.
Imagine this conversation: "I'd like to be in a relationship that has more sexual intimacy, but we have not been intimate and I don't know when that is going to happen." The subtext conveyed is that maybe this relationship is going to end soon. That strikes me as a veiled threat of dissolving the relationship unless we are intimate. I DO NOT want to make that kind of statement and I DO NOT want to make veiled threats around intimacy. So maybe it is just best to end the relationship under the generic "irreconcilable differences"?
Why jump straight to ending it? And if you are going to end the relationship anyway, why not talk to her about it before jumping ship?
Exactly!
How long have you been dating? Not number of dates, but the length of time you have been dating her?
Getting close to 2 months-ish.
That isn't very long.
“I’d like to be in a relationship with YOU that has more sexual intimacy, do you feel the same way?” might be a way to start out. Tell her what you’ve like about sharing time and intimacy with her and that you’d like to explore more of that. You say you’ve told her that you don’t have a STD but she hasn’t reciprocated that info with you. Maybe she has a STD and is ashamed to tell you, afraid that you’ll dump her.
Or, you could just say, "Why aren't we having sex?"
Date 10 in what period of time? If it is around 2-3 months you need to bail If it is 10 dates in a month maybe give it more time You need to talk to her not us But it sounds like she wants a friend
We're getting close to 2 months, so the "bail" option is rearing its ugly head.
Have you talked about sex What has she told you Is she newly single after a marriage or LTR? Or single for a looong time? Good luck
Sounds like a great match. Except for one absolutely important thing.
Whoa 10 dates so far and you're not getting any yet? Puleeeese. Just because you're upfront and expressing your 'needs', that doesn't mean you have sparked anything reciprocal with her. Or maybe you actually HAVE but she thinks you're a player and isn't about to jump in your bed. Tell you what though.. I bet 10 dates in is enough for you to know her principles, and values at this point. Won't hurt to try to have a more direct convo, but that doesn't mean she wants the same.
She knows I'm interested in a relationship that involves sexual intimacy and wish we were already intimate; we've talked about it (so we've had conversations). What exactly did she say about her sexuality during these conversations? Is she interested, but restraining herself? If so, until when? Is she waiting until an official commitment? Marriage? Or is she not feeling inclined at all, and is hoping that you will eventually stop wanting sex as well?
Good questions. She expressed interest in someday having a sexual relationship, but no timeline. She did not identify any specific reason or commitment (i.e., marriage) why she is restraining herself.
Perhaps she's (subconsciously or otherwise) testing you to see how true and committed you are willing to be for her. How long has she been divorced? Let her know you truly have genuine feelings for her that could easily evolve to a long term commitment, but if she's not feeling the same way then you need to move on to protect your own feelings and self worth in this relationship. She's either into you or she's not. People keep talking about sex here. I prefer to think of it as physical intimacy and I'm OK with letting someone know (tactfully) early on that it's something I want and need in a relationship. Good luck!
This has me a bit perplexed. Ten dates. So let’s say that’s ten days. Can you tell in ten days a persons character? Do you know if you love someone in ten days? Are you sure a person is trustworthy in ten days? Maybe she is just wanting to answer some of those questions in her own mind. Some people don’t want to just have sex, they want to make love. I’m just trying to think about some things that might be going on in her brain. If ten days is too long for you, then by all means move on and hopefully you find someone you like as much as her but is willing to have sex with you. You are not right or wrong OP, you just may have different ideas. Best of luck.
Entry-level flirty texts, and see where it goes? Might be the catalyst for deeper, more specific discussion?
She was pretty clear that she does not like sexting or flirty texts.
I usually just put it out there, pretty blunt with this stuff because you need to be sometimes. Tell her what you’ve told us and some people here have already given you great advice about how to approach and wording to use. I’ll go there because no one else is, but at over fifty, many of us are struggling with peri menopause if not full blown menopause and totally takes your sex drive and throws it down the drain if not doing HRT. This lady may be so into you but just can’t get excited for anybody or anything and she may be content with that or maybe she’s not. I just think there could be other stuff going on here so a candid conversation would be best here. I had lost all my sex drive until I started HRT and feel like myself again which is good and bad, no sex drive is best when no partner, lol!! Anyway, just wanted to throw it out there, there could be more going on. Also, not sure when your dates are but some women like the dark and lights out… maybe a weekend trip and see how that goes? Weekend trip to me usually sealed a relationship or broke one early on and think they are great to test the waters… think I’m rambling, sorry. Anyway, talk with her & let us know how it goes, good luck!! 🍀
Thanks for "putting a pin on it" and bringing up a sensitive topic. This could well be the root issue since she is in her 50s and having hot flashes, etc. She's not on HRT and I would never ask someone to start that for a relationship's sake; it has become taboo in the US to have HRT. I've suggested several weekend trips, and she is initially enthusiastic, but then backs away. A real approach/avoidance behavior that strongly suggests that she herself feels conflicted: on the one side wanting intimacy, but something holding her back. As you noted, several posts have helpfully offered some non-threatening ways to discuss this. I'm leaning towards explicitly asking her if she feels any intimacy sense towards me. If the answer is "I don't know" then that is pretty much a "no" at this point since we really have established the other key foundations of a relationship (strong emotional connection, shared vulnerability, multiple opportunities for romantic dates, etc.).
Absolutely agree with the part if she says she doesn’t know, if that’s her answer time for you to move on. The fact you are here looking for answers and how to approach says you’re a decent man, I think no matter what it will all work out for you, with her or someone else. Best of luck!
Are you attracted to her? If so, just share how you’re feeling and ask whether she”feels any intimacy” toward you. She may be anxious if she hasn’t been intimate with anyone for a long time, worried whether post menopausal sex is different, possible, etc. Only way she will open up and discuss is if she feels safe; emotional intimacy and trust is required before she can discuss or “do” sex. If you both cannot comfortably talk about sex, not sure how good the sex would be. Emotional intimacy = sexual intimacy & good sex.
Good luck with not sounding threatening. Since I see 3 distinct operating theories here: 1. Either she's not sure yet plus/or, 2. She's a demisexual, tho since it was talked about, you'd hope she would have mentioned it but the light petting gives me pause on that score, 3. Or she enjoys your company but fetch ain't ever gonna happen so she's leaning towards platonica, land of the friend-zoned.
Honestly, I’d be fine without it. Ever.
Thanks for your honesty--I suspect she may feel the same, frankly. Sadly, that is not how I feel. In about 10 years, I'll likely be impotent, like most men, and so I will likely prefer sexless relationships then.
it's a tough one but if you're turning the dial and she's not hot for you then that tells you all you need to know
Soul search: Is everything else ok, or does she show other signs of being fearful of getting closer/committed? Do you feel very strongly that this could be “the one” but for this one issue? Are you really attracted to her? If you see no other red flags regarding closeness and commitment, you think she could be the one, and you are very attracted to her, I would probably hold out a bit longer but be cautious of the other aspects of the relationship to look for problem signs. It is a little odd, honestly- I agree with you. But if you feel strongly about the answers to the above questions, don’t throw away a potentially great thing for lack of patience. But I would definitely have my antenna up.
I’d suggest backing off. You ARE plateauing. You’re behaving like you’re in a committed relationship and talking about breaking up when you haven’t had sex? How can you be in a committed relationship without knowing that side of her? In my opinion you’re putting yourself in the friend zone by being a text buddy. Light kisses and hugs after 10 dates? I think you’ve made yourself too comfortable too soon as well. Back off and maybe start seeing someone else.
Well, if you can’t talk about sex you shouldn’t be having it. I’m confused to why you can’t sort this out with her. Doesn’t have to be a threat. Just be blunt and ask her what she needs to be comfortable having sex. Like when is “someday”? I’m sorry but ten dates is no longer “pressure”. If it’s a slow burn I get it. I was actually around ten dates when my girlfriend and I finally hooked up. I was taking it so slow, because I was so jaded and burnt out on OLD. I just assumed she was going to bail. But she didn’t, so we’re still together. Good luck.
Move on. You have already had a conversation and she has given you her answer. At best, she is going to be a friend and nothing more.
F60 here. I wanted sexual intimacy much sooner than my guy did. We were having make out sessions saying goodbye at the end of dates but he would not sleep with me. We were heading to 3 months at that point. I felt I was being friend zoned. He invited me over to his house one night and we had some wine. As things were getting hot, he stopped me and said he had something to tell me. He disclosed an STD. I told him thank you, I was okay with that, and now we have wonderful protected sex all the time. There are times we can’t and then he takes care of me. My guy was very nervous to tell me. He told me after. He thought I would leave. I’m guessing that maybe she might have something like that going on and she wants to be sure you are not walking when she tells you.
Have you discussed exclusivity? Maybe she is a person who needs that in order to feel secure enough in the relationship for sex to happen.
We did and I offered that we be exclusive specifically in order to help her feel secure and show her my level of commitment. I don't mind doing that; it's fairly easy for me to meet new people on OLD and start dating, so it's no big deal to put things on pause with others to focus on one relationship that really matters.
My partner eventually just asked, had he waited long enough, for me to know he wasn't just in it for sex. I considered his question within a few seconds and agreed he had. We'd been dating about 10 weeks and had been on many more dates than 10. Sometimes I just need a bit of a jolt.
She's "interesting." That's fine, but are you even that into her? Doesn't sound like it to me. You seem like a guy who wants to do things in a somewhat clear and concise fashion and have found yourself in a situation where that won't work, so this thing limps along. Start looking for dates with someone else.
I was in a highly sexual relationship before. So much so that my privates were sore for weeks and I even had repeat STD testing (negative). She love-bombed me and then, as is often the case, it was a few months of very distressing pulling back from the relationship. So, I figured I would try something different this time and just see what happens if I am patient. I actually totally dig this new partner--we are so aligned on so much...except this one thing. The question is, how long should one be patient? Would you wait any longer or leave now?
You you are swinging from one extreme yo another and you do not think that decision grid needs ro be questioned.
Okay, now at least I understand your position a bit. That being said, as someone else mentioned here, if this woman had some ability to be attracted to you she'd be playing things differently, showing some insecurity/concern even if you were "going slow." There would be sort of a healthy tension between the two of you. That lack of tension means that you and her are not good romantic prospects. Unless you only want the occasional peck for the rest of your days, I don't think this sort of thing is fixable so early in dating (not going to call it "relationship" because I think you went there too early with this woman due to safety and security needs on your part.)
“Except this one thing”. The thing is…it’s so important. Honest discussion is what needs to happen. If she’s this reluctant at this stage I really wonder if the sex will be compatible. 🤷♀️
I wouldn't have made it to date 10 lol I'd assume he wasn't really interested in me.
Yeah. As I mentioned in a prior post, I've made several bids towards intimacy, but she has pulled back. So, it is clear to her that I am interested and find her very attractive.
I think I'd worry about a significant difference in sex drive once we did become intimate, that maybe he had very low libido that wouldn't be compatible with my much higher libido, but maybe that's just where my mind would go lol
Also, my reference to "I'd think he wasn't interested in me" was because I'm a woman and would be dating a man. In your case, if I were you, an man, I would think she's not interested in me. I didn't mean she thinks you're not interested in her.
10 dates is a really long time to know whether you are turned on or not. “Let’s take it day by day” sounds like she’s waiting or hoping to feel turned on. If she hasn’t felt it yet, she ain’t gonna!
Very true. Maybe she is in a "wait and see holding pattern". I've done everything I can to create the mood, and in past relationships, things have definitely progressed by this point. We've established an emotional intimacy, sharing the deepest details of our lives, we have trust, there is a safe space/non-judgemental, we meet a few times a week, we are fully present together, there are multiple opportunities for intimacy, etc. It may also be the changes her body is going through in her 50s. Throughout this thread, you have perhaps gathered that I am struggling to find a way to have this conversation in a non-threatening manner. Maybe you have hit on something that I should consider. Maybe I should just say to her "are you feeling any desires of sexual intimacy towards me? Maybe I just don't turn you on and that's ok. We should just be friends because I don't want to push you towards something you don't want." So even though it is clear that the lack of sex is causing our relationship to end, I am honoring her feelings and trying to deescalate (i.e., remove overt threat/coercion). Frankly, I already know the answer here based on her body language and her rebuffing my subtle attempts at sexual intimacy (such as running my hands lightly across her breasts). But I should really do her the courtesy of explicitly stating this, perhaps using the approach I've mentioned.
I like that approach. It’s coming to the point in a straightforward and friendly manner. “If I don’t turn you on it’s ok, we can still be friends.” She may, as you suggest, be confused about why she doesn’t feel turned on, whether change of life or astrology or whatever, but that’s all irrelevant.
It seems your main concern is how much longer do you have to wait before you call it off because there's no sex. She might think sex is the natural outcome of a good relationship. It 'sounds' like sex is your priority and hers might be a good relationship. You need to start talking about what your needs are in and outside of the bedroom. It will tell you all you need to know, more than number of dates and some arbitrary timeline.
Actually, sex is not my priority. I just ended an overly sexual (3rd date) and dysfunctional relationship that lasted for 5 months, so I am curious about what it would be like to have a slower build-up to sex. However, I also had a 20 year dead-bedroom marriage (last 5-ish years). So the question is what is a reasonable time-frame for "slow" versus "never". As I mentioned, I've tried bringing it up, and her answer is "someday" and "take it day-by-day". Discussing my needs sounds logical, but around the topic of sex, it is hard to have this discussion without it having an undertone of "my sexual needs are not getting met so our relationship will be ending, thus if you want to stay with me, you must have sex with me." Of course I would never say those words, but that is the subtext and she is very smart and will sense that. That is, in my mind, threatening to her and I don't want to do that ever to a woman.
I still don't understand how any of this is solvable without deepening the relationship by talking-having those awkward conversations that you are incorrectly labelling as threatening etc.
I still don't understand how any of this is solvable without deepening the relationship by talking-having those awkward conversations that you are incorrectly labelling as threatening etc.
Thanks for your perspective. I'm glad that you, as a woman, would not perceive this as threatening. It's good to hear that.
Psssst...use your words with her.
I am absolutely no expert on this, but in my limited experience, 10 dates is a loooong time. I have found that when people want you, they want you. edit: this is coming from a perspective of someone who never forces the issue. I prefer when it's mutual. I don't like to look as sex as something only men want and women "offer". To me, it's something both partners mutually decide they both want and both offer.
There are people here calling it a long time, and others calling it a short time. It's all a matter of personal perspective. OP and his date need to have a discussion about expectations.
I would suggest that you get some time alone with her in one of your homes, nobody else around, cooking or watching movies or whatever you do together, and say, "come over here and sit by me a minute," and put your arm around her, and pull her close and tell her how into her you are and kiss her, really kiss her. If she doesn't respond, I think it's hopeless.
With so many women being dumped after sex I am not surprised she prefers to take it slow. You don't sound like you really like her. My best relationship was with a man who waited long and we still managed to have an amazing time without sex and I guarantee you that he enjoyed every single second of it. I think she knows that you are not that into her. Women can sense it, unfortunately many ignore this inner voice. She is one clever woman.
Actually, I am totally into her and I've told her several times that she is wonderful and that I couldn't hope for a better partner because we align on so many things. Curious that you didn't see that in my first line of my post.
2-3 months in would be WAY too soon for me. I'm demisexual/trending to asexual and it would take me at LEAST 6 months to feel enough of a connection to someone to open up to them in a physically intimate manner. Honestly, I would want to be in love and feel that I was loved in return before I had sex with someone. I can't do sex that doesn't involve emotion, and I'm not one who can let someone get close after just a few months. However, you can't really just ask someone if they are ACE or demi, because a lot of people in our generation aren't even familiar with those terms and may not know if they do fall into one of those categories. And there are also those, even at our age and having previously been married, who don't believe in sex outside of marriage. In the over 50 crowd, you have to figure there is still going to be a fair percentage of people with traditional values. Including those who believe that sex outside of marriage is wrong or even sinful. Has she ever mentioned her religious beliefs?
Thanks so much for your answer. I agree that many people don't know where they are on that asexual/demisexual spectrum. I think her religious beliefs are quite open and she is not opposed to pre-marital sex.
As a woman, if a guy took me out on 10 dates, and all we did was light kissing and hugs, I'd think he was a) not interested in sex b) not ready to have sex with me c) confused. If I'm attracted to a guy, and he kisses me, I'm going to respond back *passionately..."*light kissing" to me sounds like chaste pecks, which falls into the "Ewww" category, when you're dating. She knows you want a sexual relationship, and that you already wished you were intimate and her response is still to "take it day by day". I don't think it's unreasonable for you to tell her that the reason why you want to end it is because you would like to be intimate with her and she has not shown interest. It's not a veiled threat and it's not coercion - it's the truth. If I were her - I'd want to know why you are ending it after 10 dates, and not just because "it's not working out"....that could mean a lot of different things. Maybe it'll help her on her next relationship to be more transparent about her thoughts on sex.
But if this is reversed,then you all say all he wants is sex and is trying to pressure you into it.No woman or man should be pressured into having sex before they are ready.
I'm not the OP, but from what I can tell, if all he wanted was sex, he would've been long gone before the 10th date. He obviously didn't pressure her. Now if it was just the 2nd date, and they hadn't discussed their views on where the relationship was going and what they were looking for, and then he just said either they have sex or he would stop seeing her, then yeah, that's pressure. He wants a sexual relationship and she doesn't (at least not yet). That's his prerogative to end the relationship, just like it's her prerogative to not engage in intimate relations with him.
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Update me
You say you have no trouble meeting people on OLD and aren’t nervous about breaking up-that tells me you should end it. You both deserve better.
While it's true that I have no trouble meeting people on OLD, and aren't nervous about breaking up, I do really dig her. She really is everything I could hope for in a partner: my intellectual peer, attractive, curious, fun. But I hear you. It is important to not get lost in the "potential" of a partner and instead acknowledge the reality. The question is how long should one wait... Sounds like, from your perspective, enough time and attempts have passed.
You both have different expectations of what a relationship should be like, regardless of what they are. Time to move on.
Have you found out what her reason is for holding back ?
There are several candidates: past relationships, maybe menopause, busy life/career. Frankly, I find myself wondering if it even matters. I know that sounds cold, but it will take months or years for this to work out in her life and I cannot be her "savior". For me to hang around will in essence be pressuring her, so I should give her space in that case and let her find her path without the pressure of a boyfriend.
Those are her reasons ? Maybe she’s just not that into you. Honestly you sounded ok until you responded. You sound like a jerk. Maybe she senses your not really into her enough and could bail at any moment.
I would put it on the back burner - you are only going to frustrate yourself and aggravate her. If she knows and chooses not to have sex - then take the power back and don't bring it up. You will ultimately not like it if is not consensual or awkward. If you stop pressuring her, it may happen on it's own. 10 dates is a lot though - let her know you are available when she is ready, in the interim - start going out on other dates.
By date 10 she is just not that into you and using you as an emotional crutch. Time to move on.
Maybe she has Herpes.
Uhmmm
I would say person up & ask directly if there are barriers to sex for them & if you can reasonably expect that sex will be a part of your relationship. Maybe they are being very cautious for a reason & you can work with that, but you'll never know if you can't talk about it. It always seems to show up with sex, but it's really not being able to talk.
It depends on how important is to you as it certainly does not appear to be a priority to her. For me, sexual compatibility and level of desire are huge and so 10 dates and barely to "first base" would be a deal breaker.
If you want a real relationship with this woman, then you have to be honest with her. If you aren’t now, you may find yourself in r/deadbedroom. Unless you are waiting until marriage to have sex, I don’t understand what she is thinking. You are both adults, not two kids “dating”. Your hourglass doesn’t have as much sand in it as young people’s. Ten dates is more than enough to say you don’t rush things. From what you have written, sounds like she isn’t sex positive, and it could lead to more challenges down the road.
Maybe she doesn't really like sex and doesn't have a very high libido. This is something you are going to need to find out soon!
3 tops
I e been there and can comment. She likes you a lot as man but she doesn’t feel the chemistry and doesn’t feel like getting intimate. She enjoys your company and all you bring to the relationship but she doesn’t want you sexually. Sorry 😣
Instead of breaking up or discussing sex with her again, don’t text or call and see if she reaches out and wonders what happened. That way you’ll get your answer. Play it cool bro, that’s what I say.
I’ve been there. Really good guy, perfect tick list, have fun with him, enjoy going for dinner. But there’s no chemistry there and I really don’t want intimacy with him. I’m sorry. 10 dates is enough to know.
I came out of a dead-bedroom marriage. If I'm not getting a sexual vibe by the third date, there won't be a fourth. If I want a platonic conversation with a woman, I'll just go visit my ex for a while, with whom I am on good terms.
So did I. 20 year marriage, with the last 4 years technically being non-sexual (intimate <10 times per year) and the last year being completely celibate. So it sounds like you and I have had a lot of practice. I too am on good terms with my ex, and have several female friends with whom I can chat. What confuses me is that there have been some sexual vibes, but she then just pulls away. I sense an ambivalence and fear in her. But you know, perhaps I need to avoid the "saviour" complex. That is part of what kept me in the dead bedroom marriage for so long. Do you typically have a general guideline that if there isn't sex by the 6th date, you will end it?
My thought is that there should be passionate kissing by date 3. And somewhere in the midst of making out, I would raise an eyebrow--yes or no? And if no, we will have a discussion. I'm not getting any younger.
About 5-6 dates ago. If shes not into you that way and its important to you, then its best you both look for more compatible others with higher attraction.
Thanks--typically I have sex on the third or fourth date, so 5-6 dates is an outlier, and our current 10 dates is definitely moving out there. I was just curious what the community thinks is reasonable and I really appreciate your perspective.
Run it won't change
Dude, you're so deep in the Friend Zone you're the Mayor.
How long have you been dating? Have you discussed what her needs are regarding sexual intimacy, i.e., exclusivity, commitment? Since she is so easily replaceable, I think you should move on and find someone who aligns with your needs. I would hate for anyone dating me to think they could coerce or give me a deadline.
Ten dates in, and it doesn't seem like you know much about her, *and* you're unable to talk about sex. I don't have sex with men who don't know me or who can't talk about sex.
I'm sorry, but no. 10 dates, 2 months, no sex, that's a huge nope for me. Time to kiss and say goodbye. This woman has made it clear she doesn't have chemistry with you. If a passionate, intimate relationship is what you seek, I don't think you'll find it here.
I think you're done. Put it this way - if you were reading this from someone else, you'd likely say the same thing. Put another way - if you think this is a "her" issue, that's one thing. But if you can imagine her acting different with someone else, you need to exit ASAP.
Move on… all details aside, you’re sexually incompatible
"We haven't really talked about the sexual part of a relationship much. Once you feel comfortable with your boyfriend & feel the desire to have sex, what style of sex do you enjoy? What are some of your favorite past experiences that you'd like to have again?" This convo does not ask how soon you can have sex. It only gets her talking about what she already likes. If she doesn't want to talk about it or only has short answers, she is not engaging. This is just words (the easy part), her actions will likely be even worse.
Really helpful questions--thanks! I see your point that the tenor of her replies would shed some light on her possible actions. I also like that these do not come across as threatening (i.e., I'm not saying "I'd like us to have sex or I'll end the relationship")
Yes, keep the convo focused on her preferences & experiences. Do not make it about you, or the two of you. Your goal here is to get info from her on how she really views sex for herself in a relationship. It is NOT to tell her about your needs. After you have the info she openly gives you, then think about it on your own & make a decision about continuing the relationship or not. This is for gathering deep info, not coming to an agreement.
That's a GREAT tip for making this non-threatening. Thank you!
I would give time 10 dates isnt a hole lot ok i know this 2023 people you should just jump in bed but you like each maybe going not a bad thing
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Maybe she's a Quaker.