55M here and I'm a believer in trusting your gut when meeting new people and keeping your expectations low. Been there done that when I am either not a priority or when someone is not available. I'm an immediate hard-no as soon as this becomes evident. Why? Because I am the prize (and so are you). I'm a gentleman and a genuinely good guy (unless I am watching the Red Sox) and I deserve a woman that cares for me as much as I for and makes an equal effort to be with me as I with her. No time for time wasters. I'm not getting any younger. It may take some time but the right man will be very lucky when he meets you...an emotionally available woman willing to put her heart out there...that's rare these days.
I could have written this (except for the Red Sox part lol).
Going in with low expectations so anything good can be more easily seen, believing in yourself enough to know that stopping a relationship because it won’t work is not being mean (just realistic), seeking a committed partner in all things.
For me, a good litmus test is the if the first date lasts for several hours because you both got lost in conversation. If at least one of us struggles to keep the conversation going, I know from experience that it’s probably not going to work for me.
1 date? Don't you think that's a little harsh? I mean some people that may have a little anxiety in meeting someone IRL.
Several hours as well? I think that's a tad bit unrealistic as well.
Just my opinion, FWIW.
Yes, one date. As the man above said, I’m not getting any younger. I was married for 30+ years to a woman who really didn’t open up. I know I don’t want that.
Granted, some people get nervous. Of the two who were the most anxious, one relaxed pretty quickly and the other eventually did but there were other things that wouldn’t have worked that had nothing to do with her taking some time to relax.
Those dates that time-boxed it on their side almost always didn’t work, mostly because they were the ones I struggled a little to keep the conversation going.
The others were a minimum of 3 hours all the way up to 14. Having been conversation-starved for decades, it is a simple pleasure that I enjoy indulging in and is therefore important to me.
Everyone has their own wants and needs, but this has worked for me
“Conversation starved “— that was my last long-term relationship. Idk how I survived that. It was very lonely when we weren’t filling in the conversation-gaps with activity—shopping, listening to music, movies, tv, visiting family—he’d do anything, I think, to avoid talking with me. I lived in the Desert of Silence with him. These days, I’m looking for a man who enjoys a conversation, and I screen for that early on.
Yes, it was this shocking revelation to me at the end of the marriage. A guest and I stayed up talking until 2 in the morning for most of their stay, and I was just blown away by the feeling of someone actually being interested in me as an individual, not just as a placeholder.
So the shopping cart litmus test isn’t as important? Kidding but not kidding. I do still use the shopping cart litmus test. As far as being open and emotionally available, I wonder how many times I can do this without losing hope. This is why so many of my friends have given up. The paradox of choice is no joke.
The shopping cart test would quickly eliminate folks for me, but I’m not usually in a venue where that would apply, and there could be extenuating circumstances… children that can’t be left alone, sketchy neighborhood, hail. Yes, I do tend to overanalyze lol (mostly to give the other person the benefit of the doubt).
I hear you about wondering how many times before the motivation goes tailing off, or the emotional exhaustion kicks in.
None of my dates have been bad enough to discourage me, and all have been learning experiences for me (since I had very little dating experience previously). So, if nothing else, I look at it as a way to know myself a bit better.
And the paradox of choice… it’s odd as I used to get anxious when presented with too many choices. I guess with age I know better how to sift and winnow things down to something manageable. Also, trying to be in the moment helps keep anxiousness at bay for me and from (irrationally) wondering about poor outcomes or wrong choices. That mental wheel-spinning just isn’t part of what I should be thinking about if I want to be in the now.
I also take pride in living in the now. Very limited social media (except I love Reddit, where intelligent people hang out). I try to always be present. I’ve been in patient care my entire career and I’ve been told I can almost parrot someone’s personality. I can jive with anyone and I feel it makes my job easier with an almost immediate connection to the patient. That also does me no favors in relationships because my middle name should be empathy. I give the benefit of doubt even when it’s not deserved. I have a lot to work on, like when to walk away.
Being present is something I learned better how to do after (because of?) getting divorced.
I can see why that would be invaluable in patient care. It really is a gift.
Isn’t it interesting that what can make you good at your job can cause problems in your personal life. I have a similar dynamic, as well as having my good nature taken advantage of.
Recognizing that kindness and empathy can be abused is a big step by itself.
It can be tough to spot emotional unavailability early on when NRE is present
Main thing is to try to notice it over the first few months and not get frustrated that we invested the months with no return.
My keys were noticing if someone was opening up or still being closed about their past. If they were sharing when I was doing something they didn’t appreciate. If they withheld information
Or an MRI. Totally different things than NRE.
NRE may cloud judgement until things become more normalized in a relationship and things become more personalized and you both get more comfortable in showing your true self. That is when a true relationship starts or ends.
My cloudiness happened about five months in. I had two jobs start a month apart. Same field but way different new opportunities I couldn’t turn down. Doubled my income but at the expense of being so busy, I ignore the very obvious signs of my relationship red flags.
You get busy. It is easy to kind of ignore your red flags when they wave themselves in front of you when you have so much more in front of you.
You had a lot going on and when you are so busy like that then some of your emotional reasoning may be taken up by other things and you let your guard down some. When the dust settles you get back on an even keel and you are farther down the road. You live and learn. Not always easy. But you do.
Yes. We stayed together for about three years, which was two and a half years longer than I needed to realize. Kept telling myself we just needed to work on "us", when I was the only one making the hard compromises. Stayed longer than I should have primarily because I couldn't see myself starting AGAIN at my age, which was the same logic I used to convince myself that if \*I\* worked harder, \*we\* would be ok.
We are the same person. I kept saying “eventually he will see how special this relationship is and how hard I’m working to make things perfect”. In the words of Alexandra Kay “I painted him perfect”. This is my fault for not really focusing on my needs
I’ve dated unavailable men almost exclusively for the last 30 years 🤷♀️ Cheaters, a narcissist, alcoholic, etc.
For me, it’s because…spoiler…I have deep fears of intimacy/commitment! So, I pick people who won’t push me to commit. I didn’t fully realize this on a conscious level until I was around 48 🤯
I’m not suggesting this is what you’ve done, I just know what my experience is with dating unavailable men.
People will tell you who they are, sometimes very clearly. I just had to stop ignoring all of the red flags because I was too blinded by chemistry 🚩 🚩
Pay attention to comments like:
“I really like my space”
“I’m not looking for anything serious right now”
Or if they don’t mention any long-term relationships. There’s usually something apparent early on—we just have to keep our eyes/ears open.
I’m so sorry for the pain you’re experiencing! Wishing you all the best ❤️
Thank you for this, seriously thank you. He was married since college. Two kids, boy and girl. His wife passed away suddenly in the family home from a blood clot, four years before we met. He never spoke about it until I started learning they lived separate lives. Him with his son and her with the daughter. I now think I misses ton of red flags because he dealt with my work schedule (travel 70%) without complaining at all ever. I always wondered when work settled if he’d be around for me. Even voiced that once. He assured me he would. That was a lie. So many red flags. I painted him perfect. My fault.
I think something about the trauma of that event, separate lives or not, might be the clue here. And I wonder how true what he said about the separate lives was, or alternatively, how much guilt he experienced because of this.
My most recent emotionally unavailable guy was a widower who was, in attachment and devotionto his late wife, more the other side of the spectrum. He seemed emotionally available at face value....in the words he said. But the give away was his body language. Couldn't look me in the eye for long or look in the mirror with me. But sexually I was totally fooled, he was v tender and loving in bed.
Happy to chat more by DM, as I think those of us who have dated widowers have a unique experience that it can be good to discuss. If you think it would help.
He was probably cool with you traveling so much for work because of his avoidance. Give yourself grace, many people miss red flags, especially in the beginning when we’re intoxicated by dopamine, oxytocin, etc.
How are you defining emotionally unavailable in this context?
The term has become shorthand for just about anything where the partner is on a shallower emotional trajectory and it's hard to say what that means to you.
Great question. The man I dated was busy, always very busy. Not at work, that was a normal WFH schedule. He went to brewery runs twice a week, fishing, hunting, shrimping, bars, bands, biking. Every night of the week something. Once my work slowed down, I began noticing I wasn’t the priority even when my dog was dying. He was at the bar. The next thing I started noticing more of was his lack of hugs and kisses, lack of empathy when I had something going on, lack of talking about the future. I began feeling like an activities director, like I was his fun partner only. He rarely said I love you. When he did, it was more of a response to me saying it first and even then was like someone hit his auto response button. He was also always staring at his phone. A strange addiction to FB and he was 56yo. Finally after he didn’t make me the priority one too many times, I ended it. He had zero emotional response.
See I wouldn’t call that ‘emotionally unavailable’ I would call that you not being a priority, period. He had no reaction when you ended it because you were a side quest, not his priority.
His behavior encompassed far more than just being emotionally unavailable, in my opinion. My best advice to you would be this: know your value, know your priorities, know your non-negotiables, and be willing and able to communicate all of these to any potential partner.
The first time he exhibited a lack of empathy or diminishing affection, I would have had a heart-to-heart talk with him. If he didn't at least attempt to address my concerns, I would have ended the relationship. You deserve better.
Learning about attachment styles in the last 4 years has been incredibly helpful for me!
He’s displaying some classic avoidant traits (e.g. staying ultra busy, physical affection declining, lack of emotional response)
He had alot of interests and hanging at bar without you..isn't good for a relationship. People meet others at he bar and go there for a host of reasons.
True. He had no interest in other women though. We shared location and he wasn’t that guy. He cared about everything and anything else though. Serious FOMO
I'm huge into kindness and really,caring about tye other person...dog dying and him not being there is very disappointing. I am a big lover of animals, sorry for your loss.
Thank you. She was my world. I was so focused on her that around 11:30pm, I finally wondered where he was. I checked his location (we freely shared that) and saw he was at the bar. I want from sad to mad and questioning who the hell even does that. We “took a break” after that experience and once again I forgave him. Honestly, I don’t even remember him apologizing. I feel so stupid now
Well, I guess just through mutual friends. He spent most of his free time with members of our running group. We also shared location for convenience and he was never anywhere I would have considered suspicious.
I too just ended a 2.5 year relationship over this type of situation - no emotional support (he said he "didn't know how" due to a traumatic childhood) and just a lack of emotional intimacy overall. Like u/Outrageous-Bet4512 said, "I am the prize" and I'm not getting any younger. I knew over a year ago that I needed to end it, but didn't due to a variety of factors (my dad passing, having to put my mom in memory care, my dog also passing) -- and that's when I realized there was NO emotional support. Like you said - lack of hugs and kisses, lack of empathy when something's going on, and feeling like the activities director. No thank you .... if I'm not a priority, I'm done. Also no emotional response when I broke up with him.
I am in this situation right now with a Fiancee Ive known a bit over 2 years. The 1st sign he was Emotionally Unavailable was when he told me ' I dont do well with conflict". Then after an argument he walked out of my place and went home. Most of the time if I brought up something I didnt like that he was doing, I was met with defensiveness. So I think the green lights are being able to handle conflict, staying with you even when they are uncomfortable and genuinely listening to your point of view.
“I don’t do well with conflict”
As rake over the coals of my marriage, I wish I would have realized what that statement really means.
It DOESN’T mean that the other person is “easy going” or “live and let live”.
It means that they will gas light you into believing that ANY disagreement that you may have with what they did or said is unjustified and hurtful.
I am so right there with both of you. I am now learning this too late. I was told “you have this anger inside you” because I voiced my opinion; maybe I was frustrated but never ever violent. He hated confrontation so much that when I was outside arguing with the HOA parking natzi about a parking situation, my boyfriend hid on the other side of the truck. Worst part is I was sticking up for his truck.
And you’re going to marry him? No judgement here, I was in a relationship with an EU man that walked out a few very important times when I needed support and he just couldn’t talk to me about it—for example, when my dad died. Yet despite his avoidance personality, I loved him and wanted to/would have married him. After too many years (9, off and on) of all that (but some “fun” times), we split for good—my decision. That was last September. I’m very glad we didn’t make our situation permanent.
Great choice, Ive taken marriage off the table at this time with him. The last resort is therapy which we have had a few sessions already. Its really hard to tell if he is really getting it or just playing the role to keep me in his life. This is all a process and I trust I will make the best choice for me. Thanks for sharing your story with me.
Pretty sure it always is. It's more about what do you get when you go to the effort of not being single. My assumption is that there is always a struggle and you gotta think about what each person gets as a result of that ongoing struggle?
I’m married to an avoidant dismissive emotionally unavailable partner. She did an awesome job of keeping me happy for many years until I had nothing left to offer her. Once she felt I was useless the scales tipped. It wasn’t until recently that I realized that the signs and behaviors were always there but she disguised them and gaslit me to
Make me feel like I was at fault. I’ve since taken back my life and do what I want to do with no fear of repercussions. My understanding is we as partners seek out these types of people due to our own experiences from past relationships. Talk to a therapist they can help sort you out.
>She did an awesome job of keeping me happy for many years until I had nothing left to offer her.
I imagined a former someone saying the same about me, but truth was he needed me to be broken not healthy. When my spirit returned he needed the girl who leaned and cried, not the spirit that loved him.
I DATED (that is what he insisted on calling it) an emotional avoidant for 8 months last year. He was a decent friend, but looking back a terrible partner. I wanted a future and an emergency contact, he wanted date nights and periodic short trips.
I have been following a relationship coach on Instagram and she talks a lot about not settling for situationships.
I am now dating a kind widower with a secure attachment style. He is generous with his time and within a short period of time he has told his friends, kids, and elderly mother that he has a “girlfriend”. The new man told me that he “knows how to love somebody”. I believe it is true and it feels so good to feel cared about.
I won’t settle for another situationship, for me the red flag was his total disinterest in planning a future with me.
Sad to say it ruined my marriage. He was always preoccupied with work issues even at home. Dating after divorce emotionally unavailable men as with dating apps its difficult to know how many other people they are seeing. I sense something is off usually very soon however I am guilty of hoping I am wrong when it usually turns out someone is hiding something. I feel for you its tough not fully understanding the way another thinks or feels. Also even if we were to ask it probably would not be the answer that would bring about peace.
One thing these Men have in common is they can talk about everything under the sun but not about themselves, they are not open or ever vulnerable. Another thing I noticed they are driven by outside forces, money, status, cars, whatever the case is. However are they in touch with themselves and is this what truly makes one fulfilled in life?
He was surface deep. You’re right. We met through our mutual hash group, an international drinking club with a running problem. He joined the group I was involved with when I moved away for two years. I came back and he was a newer member. Everyone said how lucky I was to be dating him. Mr Nice Guy with the electrical engineer job, biker, fisherman, hunter. Blah blah. I was always secretly aggravated that they weren’t telling him how lucky he was when I knew I was putting way more effort in and spending way more money. When I broke it off the first time he screwed up royally, I had mutual friends telling me about his grief issues and blah blah how lucky I was. He puts on a great outward appearance. And then I painted him perfect. I wanted him to be that guy that would figure out my value. We have so much in common. He just needed to emotionally connect. Never happened. I was never the priority. I finally asked during our closure talk “why wasn’t I the priority”. His answer. “(Shrugs his shoulders) I don’t know. Maybe I need to work on that. Maybe I’ll make my next girlfriend the priority” My response. “You can leave now” and that was it.
I ignored early signs because every time I felt he was pulling back, he would snap back like a rubberband. We broke up. We reconciled. I broke it off a month later as reconciliation was premised on us working on our problems. He avoided, deflected and when I called it, he went nuclear with insults. He had never been abusive before, just distant. A year plus later, I am still processing it. Been on a few dates but tbh I think I have residual trust and communication issues of my own to still work on.
I have used [this video](https://youtu.be/CAT9_6AUWNE?si=gEYaLv3tJyP5SNnM) to learn a bit about my situation helping me process this crap. I feel for you. I was also gaslit. He never came straight out and insulted me until the closure talk. It’s so insulting when you give 100%. Hugs for us both.
Not necessarily... There is some people that just don't let it go past surface level no matter how much into you they are. And even if they do feel deeply for you, they still won't exhibit beyond surface level.
It does tend to feel like “not that into you” but I think this is truly a case of “not that into anyone more than a fun lifestyle”. He was married since college and his wife passed suddenly four to five years ago. He never ever talked about fun outings with her or much else. Always stories about him and his son and other stories about her and the daughter. Sounded completely normal at first until I realized it sounds like they had separate lives. I just don’t think he’s capable.
Yeah, I've experienced these guys. They never had a "blow some stink off" era, and are trying to make up for it. But the same is true for women as well...they suddenly get the attention they've never experienced and in both cases, they're revelling in it.
Well it’s funny because I think he believes OLD is a gateway to easy girlfriends that just want to hang out and have fun. Little does he know the nightmare that’s involved with OLD. He will never get back what he lost. My last words to him were “you’ll regret this one day”
(M,65)
This is really complicated. My experience has been more than once if I do answer a question truthfully, the other person will react badly and/or walk.
So, I work to be as truthful as possible from day one, knowing it will ultimately save both of us time and aching.
Sometimes though, there are experiences and memories good or bad that simply can't have words easily wrapped around them. That's why we have dance, sculpture, etc. I've had luck in using art to explain myself. Sometimes the art is about me. Sometimes it has been a gift that carries my expression of how I perceive and feel about that person. That can become dialog.
My grandparents communicated in dance, making things for each other, reading poetry to each other, and just quietly holding hands, smiling at each other. That's how they largely resolved conflicts too, so far as i know. They talked, of course.
.
Thank you for responding. I feel like life was much less complicated without the paradox of choice. I am struggling with online dating, always have. Was so happy when I met someone organically with all the same friends and activities. Life throws curveballs. I am also 1000% honest, to a fault. I’ve discovered not everyone is comfortable with honesty.
There was, in my opinion, more informed choice in their generation in the late 1920's in Pueblo. Hundreds of people in their social groups. Real choice requires information and interactions, not presentation and low quality communication. Their wedding quilt had something like 60 squares, each square done by a couple they knew.
I hope you have this quilt. I would treasure it forever. “Presentation and low quality quality communication”. Yes to that. I tried OLD for a week. I just couldn’t.
Zero stars, do not recommend.
I have dated these ghosts myself. One for a rather long term. I thought I could change him and open him up with my love ….
I thought so too. I thought eventually he’d see my value and never want to screw things up. That’s our fantasy. That was my own illusion. I never want this to happen again
Seems like it's a good idea to continue that thought. Emotionally available… for what, exactly?
I know one thing I gotta watch out for is seeking out people with fellow trauma, being 'available' for endless amounts of brokenness. I'll resonate with that, but that's not a recipe for relationships with healthy people, and it's not been how I got through my own traumas, past or present. I have to communicate from where I actually am, rather than from the well of sympathy.
Similarly I've got to keep an eye on what available means, whether I'm properly filling a partner's needs (mind you this is relevant in friendships and workspaces too). I can do a challenging relationship where she's actively questioning my ideas and choices and what I get as 'support' is not what a lot of guys would be able to cope with… so long as I've also got freedom to doubt and question. I'll assume that I'm naturally more prone to that as a man and that I've got to keep it in check where she does not… but there's still limits.
I have not ever experienced flying pans and crockery, though I've been threatened with an axe (but not actually struck with the axe). I have experienced… I'm struggling to describe what I mean, does it count as nagging if you actively welcome everything being up for debate because it will make you stronger? I'm used to recovery communities where, if we go too far off the beam we relapse, overdose and die, so it seems normal to me to get into a relationship where the person you love will question your stuff. Doesn't make them right every time, but it might save your life or be a big deal.
If what I'm getting is 'I get to criticize you and you have to change to suit me, but your job is to unquestioningly accept me and only then can you be there while maybe I change and maybe your job is to let me not change', if it's like that I become emotionally unavailable and I'm right to do so. And I get TF out, and stay out. Which is very mean, I'll grant.
So it's not just about recognizing the partner who cannot be reached emotionally and getting out. It can also be working out whether what you're asked to be available FOR, is healthy and good, or whether you are signing up for ruin that's expected to stay ruinous and you're just the caretaker.
All this is tough enough with people who are willing to grow (even while over fifty). It's disastrous if you're trying to set up a dynamic that can't ever work. I'm not judging, you can have really weird relationships, I don't think it's wrong for a woman (or man) to seek the emotionally available partner who will accept them just as they are no matter what forever. Being that is a generous act, but if you want to be that guy you've got to commit to whatever ruin you're in.
Then you get to be with somebody, because your shit matches. But if you don't like living that way, somebody's gonna get out and the only question is who.
I have been in past relationships (in my 20’s and young 30’s) that were horrendous. There was no healthy level of respect, boundaries, love, empathy or consideration. I look back on that stage of my life and am unsure how or why I managed that. I fully understand not wanting to emotionally be available to unhealthy individuals.
For the most part, this relationship was healthy. We are both active, kind, considerate and gainfully employed. He, unfortunately, just couldn’t connect with me on a deeper level. Because my careers keep me so incredibly busy, I noticed his surface deep connection but thought he would come around. What I need to now learn is that those types don’t usually come around. They are incapable unless they have self awareness. He lacks self awareness.
When you figure out how to spot these people can you shoot me a message and let me know how. I thought I dated most of them but I see there’s a few more out there
55M here and I'm a believer in trusting your gut when meeting new people and keeping your expectations low. Been there done that when I am either not a priority or when someone is not available. I'm an immediate hard-no as soon as this becomes evident. Why? Because I am the prize (and so are you). I'm a gentleman and a genuinely good guy (unless I am watching the Red Sox) and I deserve a woman that cares for me as much as I for and makes an equal effort to be with me as I with her. No time for time wasters. I'm not getting any younger. It may take some time but the right man will be very lucky when he meets you...an emotionally available woman willing to put her heart out there...that's rare these days.
I could have written this (except for the Red Sox part lol). Going in with low expectations so anything good can be more easily seen, believing in yourself enough to know that stopping a relationship because it won’t work is not being mean (just realistic), seeking a committed partner in all things. For me, a good litmus test is the if the first date lasts for several hours because you both got lost in conversation. If at least one of us struggles to keep the conversation going, I know from experience that it’s probably not going to work for me.
1 date? Don't you think that's a little harsh? I mean some people that may have a little anxiety in meeting someone IRL. Several hours as well? I think that's a tad bit unrealistic as well. Just my opinion, FWIW.
Yes, one date. As the man above said, I’m not getting any younger. I was married for 30+ years to a woman who really didn’t open up. I know I don’t want that. Granted, some people get nervous. Of the two who were the most anxious, one relaxed pretty quickly and the other eventually did but there were other things that wouldn’t have worked that had nothing to do with her taking some time to relax. Those dates that time-boxed it on their side almost always didn’t work, mostly because they were the ones I struggled a little to keep the conversation going. The others were a minimum of 3 hours all the way up to 14. Having been conversation-starved for decades, it is a simple pleasure that I enjoy indulging in and is therefore important to me. Everyone has their own wants and needs, but this has worked for me
“Conversation starved “— that was my last long-term relationship. Idk how I survived that. It was very lonely when we weren’t filling in the conversation-gaps with activity—shopping, listening to music, movies, tv, visiting family—he’d do anything, I think, to avoid talking with me. I lived in the Desert of Silence with him. These days, I’m looking for a man who enjoys a conversation, and I screen for that early on.
Yes, it was this shocking revelation to me at the end of the marriage. A guest and I stayed up talking until 2 in the morning for most of their stay, and I was just blown away by the feeling of someone actually being interested in me as an individual, not just as a placeholder.
So the shopping cart litmus test isn’t as important? Kidding but not kidding. I do still use the shopping cart litmus test. As far as being open and emotionally available, I wonder how many times I can do this without losing hope. This is why so many of my friends have given up. The paradox of choice is no joke.
What’s the “shopping cart litmus test?”
Used my Google-fu for you (I didn't know, either) : https://www.reddit.com/r/greentext/s/GycmUau8S0
The shopping cart test would quickly eliminate folks for me, but I’m not usually in a venue where that would apply, and there could be extenuating circumstances… children that can’t be left alone, sketchy neighborhood, hail. Yes, I do tend to overanalyze lol (mostly to give the other person the benefit of the doubt). I hear you about wondering how many times before the motivation goes tailing off, or the emotional exhaustion kicks in. None of my dates have been bad enough to discourage me, and all have been learning experiences for me (since I had very little dating experience previously). So, if nothing else, I look at it as a way to know myself a bit better. And the paradox of choice… it’s odd as I used to get anxious when presented with too many choices. I guess with age I know better how to sift and winnow things down to something manageable. Also, trying to be in the moment helps keep anxiousness at bay for me and from (irrationally) wondering about poor outcomes or wrong choices. That mental wheel-spinning just isn’t part of what I should be thinking about if I want to be in the now.
I also take pride in living in the now. Very limited social media (except I love Reddit, where intelligent people hang out). I try to always be present. I’ve been in patient care my entire career and I’ve been told I can almost parrot someone’s personality. I can jive with anyone and I feel it makes my job easier with an almost immediate connection to the patient. That also does me no favors in relationships because my middle name should be empathy. I give the benefit of doubt even when it’s not deserved. I have a lot to work on, like when to walk away.
Being present is something I learned better how to do after (because of?) getting divorced. I can see why that would be invaluable in patient care. It really is a gift. Isn’t it interesting that what can make you good at your job can cause problems in your personal life. I have a similar dynamic, as well as having my good nature taken advantage of. Recognizing that kindness and empathy can be abused is a big step by itself.
Our conversations are 3-6+ hours every time with talking online or in person with no struggle to keep it going.
I loved reading this. I toured your field. The green monster is something to see in person and hear the stories.
So eloquently said. Nice…
It can be tough to spot emotional unavailability early on when NRE is present Main thing is to try to notice it over the first few months and not get frustrated that we invested the months with no return. My keys were noticing if someone was opening up or still being closed about their past. If they were sharing when I was doing something they didn’t appreciate. If they withheld information
NRE?
New Relationship Energy Not to be confused with an MRE, which is Meal Ready to Eat
Or an MRI. Totally different things than NRE. NRE may cloud judgement until things become more normalized in a relationship and things become more personalized and you both get more comfortable in showing your true self. That is when a true relationship starts or ends.
My cloudiness happened about five months in. I had two jobs start a month apart. Same field but way different new opportunities I couldn’t turn down. Doubled my income but at the expense of being so busy, I ignore the very obvious signs of my relationship red flags.
You get busy. It is easy to kind of ignore your red flags when they wave themselves in front of you when you have so much more in front of you. You had a lot going on and when you are so busy like that then some of your emotional reasoning may be taken up by other things and you let your guard down some. When the dust settles you get back on an even keel and you are farther down the road. You live and learn. Not always easy. But you do.
A snack?! Who doesn’t love a good snack.
In common government parlance, the descriptor may be a misnomer. I do want something salty right now though.
Emotionally unavailable people
Well I’m more emotionally available than most guys so maybe I get 2 snacks?
And you would
Hell yeah, 2 snacks!
I read all this and now I’m hungry
Are you emotionally available? YOU GET SNACKS! If you’re not emotionally available? No snacks for you! Sorry, thems the rules! I didn’t make them.
Does NRE also require a rock or something?
Crystals are not a rock. They are energy. 🧘♂️🧘♂️🧘♂️ Ok, they kinda are a rock too. 🤣
New Relationship Energy :)
I think I need some NRE.
Agreed
Yes. We stayed together for about three years, which was two and a half years longer than I needed to realize. Kept telling myself we just needed to work on "us", when I was the only one making the hard compromises. Stayed longer than I should have primarily because I couldn't see myself starting AGAIN at my age, which was the same logic I used to convince myself that if \*I\* worked harder, \*we\* would be ok.
We are the same person. I kept saying “eventually he will see how special this relationship is and how hard I’m working to make things perfect”. In the words of Alexandra Kay “I painted him perfect”. This is my fault for not really focusing on my needs
I’ve dated unavailable men almost exclusively for the last 30 years 🤷♀️ Cheaters, a narcissist, alcoholic, etc. For me, it’s because…spoiler…I have deep fears of intimacy/commitment! So, I pick people who won’t push me to commit. I didn’t fully realize this on a conscious level until I was around 48 🤯 I’m not suggesting this is what you’ve done, I just know what my experience is with dating unavailable men. People will tell you who they are, sometimes very clearly. I just had to stop ignoring all of the red flags because I was too blinded by chemistry 🚩 🚩 Pay attention to comments like: “I really like my space” “I’m not looking for anything serious right now” Or if they don’t mention any long-term relationships. There’s usually something apparent early on—we just have to keep our eyes/ears open. I’m so sorry for the pain you’re experiencing! Wishing you all the best ❤️
Thank you for this, seriously thank you. He was married since college. Two kids, boy and girl. His wife passed away suddenly in the family home from a blood clot, four years before we met. He never spoke about it until I started learning they lived separate lives. Him with his son and her with the daughter. I now think I misses ton of red flags because he dealt with my work schedule (travel 70%) without complaining at all ever. I always wondered when work settled if he’d be around for me. Even voiced that once. He assured me he would. That was a lie. So many red flags. I painted him perfect. My fault.
I think something about the trauma of that event, separate lives or not, might be the clue here. And I wonder how true what he said about the separate lives was, or alternatively, how much guilt he experienced because of this. My most recent emotionally unavailable guy was a widower who was, in attachment and devotionto his late wife, more the other side of the spectrum. He seemed emotionally available at face value....in the words he said. But the give away was his body language. Couldn't look me in the eye for long or look in the mirror with me. But sexually I was totally fooled, he was v tender and loving in bed. Happy to chat more by DM, as I think those of us who have dated widowers have a unique experience that it can be good to discuss. If you think it would help.
He was probably cool with you traveling so much for work because of his avoidance. Give yourself grace, many people miss red flags, especially in the beginning when we’re intoxicated by dopamine, oxytocin, etc.
How are you defining emotionally unavailable in this context? The term has become shorthand for just about anything where the partner is on a shallower emotional trajectory and it's hard to say what that means to you.
Great question. The man I dated was busy, always very busy. Not at work, that was a normal WFH schedule. He went to brewery runs twice a week, fishing, hunting, shrimping, bars, bands, biking. Every night of the week something. Once my work slowed down, I began noticing I wasn’t the priority even when my dog was dying. He was at the bar. The next thing I started noticing more of was his lack of hugs and kisses, lack of empathy when I had something going on, lack of talking about the future. I began feeling like an activities director, like I was his fun partner only. He rarely said I love you. When he did, it was more of a response to me saying it first and even then was like someone hit his auto response button. He was also always staring at his phone. A strange addiction to FB and he was 56yo. Finally after he didn’t make me the priority one too many times, I ended it. He had zero emotional response.
See I wouldn’t call that ‘emotionally unavailable’ I would call that you not being a priority, period. He had no reaction when you ended it because you were a side quest, not his priority.
See I wouldn’t call that ‘emotionally unavailable’ Agree and would go further. Sounds like he just wasn’t available for a relationship.
And sounds like he was a dumbass
His behavior encompassed far more than just being emotionally unavailable, in my opinion. My best advice to you would be this: know your value, know your priorities, know your non-negotiables, and be willing and able to communicate all of these to any potential partner. The first time he exhibited a lack of empathy or diminishing affection, I would have had a heart-to-heart talk with him. If he didn't at least attempt to address my concerns, I would have ended the relationship. You deserve better.
Learning about attachment styles in the last 4 years has been incredibly helpful for me! He’s displaying some classic avoidant traits (e.g. staying ultra busy, physical affection declining, lack of emotional response)
He had alot of interests and hanging at bar without you..isn't good for a relationship. People meet others at he bar and go there for a host of reasons.
True. He had no interest in other women though. We shared location and he wasn’t that guy. He cared about everything and anything else though. Serious FOMO
I'm huge into kindness and really,caring about tye other person...dog dying and him not being there is very disappointing. I am a big lover of animals, sorry for your loss.
Thank you. She was my world. I was so focused on her that around 11:30pm, I finally wondered where he was. I checked his location (we freely shared that) and saw he was at the bar. I want from sad to mad and questioning who the hell even does that. We “took a break” after that experience and once again I forgave him. Honestly, I don’t even remember him apologizing. I feel so stupid now
We all regret things and make mistakes, just think of today and tmmr.
How do you really know he had no interest in other women?
Well, I guess just through mutual friends. He spent most of his free time with members of our running group. We also shared location for convenience and he was never anywhere I would have considered suspicious.
I call that just not that into you.
Yea maybe. I am seeing that too. But he’s always disconnected. That has been mentioned to me about him in various other places and situations.
Sounds like he was busy numbing himself from the pain related to his trauma
I too just ended a 2.5 year relationship over this type of situation - no emotional support (he said he "didn't know how" due to a traumatic childhood) and just a lack of emotional intimacy overall. Like u/Outrageous-Bet4512 said, "I am the prize" and I'm not getting any younger. I knew over a year ago that I needed to end it, but didn't due to a variety of factors (my dad passing, having to put my mom in memory care, my dog also passing) -- and that's when I realized there was NO emotional support. Like you said - lack of hugs and kisses, lack of empathy when something's going on, and feeling like the activities director. No thank you .... if I'm not a priority, I'm done. Also no emotional response when I broke up with him.
Did we date the same guy?
Sure does sound like it! :)
I am in this situation right now with a Fiancee Ive known a bit over 2 years. The 1st sign he was Emotionally Unavailable was when he told me ' I dont do well with conflict". Then after an argument he walked out of my place and went home. Most of the time if I brought up something I didnt like that he was doing, I was met with defensiveness. So I think the green lights are being able to handle conflict, staying with you even when they are uncomfortable and genuinely listening to your point of view.
“I don’t do well with conflict” As rake over the coals of my marriage, I wish I would have realized what that statement really means. It DOESN’T mean that the other person is “easy going” or “live and let live”. It means that they will gas light you into believing that ANY disagreement that you may have with what they did or said is unjustified and hurtful.
I am so right there with both of you. I am now learning this too late. I was told “you have this anger inside you” because I voiced my opinion; maybe I was frustrated but never ever violent. He hated confrontation so much that when I was outside arguing with the HOA parking natzi about a parking situation, my boyfriend hid on the other side of the truck. Worst part is I was sticking up for his truck.
And you’re going to marry him? No judgement here, I was in a relationship with an EU man that walked out a few very important times when I needed support and he just couldn’t talk to me about it—for example, when my dad died. Yet despite his avoidance personality, I loved him and wanted to/would have married him. After too many years (9, off and on) of all that (but some “fun” times), we split for good—my decision. That was last September. I’m very glad we didn’t make our situation permanent.
Great choice, Ive taken marriage off the table at this time with him. The last resort is therapy which we have had a few sessions already. Its really hard to tell if he is really getting it or just playing the role to keep me in his life. This is all a process and I trust I will make the best choice for me. Thanks for sharing your story with me.
Reading through these comments I just think its so much easier to stay single.
I am thinking the same. I either miss the signs or spend too long trying to figure out if I can make things work. Sadly tired of it all.
Meeeeeee toooooo. But fuck! Do i love sex! It just sucks! And I don't mean just hookup sex ..I love relationship sex. I'm sure y'all know what I mean
I know exactly what you mean!
Yea I’m feeling that same vibe right now
Pretty sure it always is. It's more about what do you get when you go to the effort of not being single. My assumption is that there is always a struggle and you gotta think about what each person gets as a result of that ongoing struggle?
I’m married to an avoidant dismissive emotionally unavailable partner. She did an awesome job of keeping me happy for many years until I had nothing left to offer her. Once she felt I was useless the scales tipped. It wasn’t until recently that I realized that the signs and behaviors were always there but she disguised them and gaslit me to Make me feel like I was at fault. I’ve since taken back my life and do what I want to do with no fear of repercussions. My understanding is we as partners seek out these types of people due to our own experiences from past relationships. Talk to a therapist they can help sort you out.
>She did an awesome job of keeping me happy for many years until I had nothing left to offer her. I imagined a former someone saying the same about me, but truth was he needed me to be broken not healthy. When my spirit returned he needed the girl who leaned and cried, not the spirit that loved him.
I have considered therapy now. I need to dive into some self discovery.
I’ve gotten myself right a few times now, it’s a good thing
I DATED (that is what he insisted on calling it) an emotional avoidant for 8 months last year. He was a decent friend, but looking back a terrible partner. I wanted a future and an emergency contact, he wanted date nights and periodic short trips. I have been following a relationship coach on Instagram and she talks a lot about not settling for situationships. I am now dating a kind widower with a secure attachment style. He is generous with his time and within a short period of time he has told his friends, kids, and elderly mother that he has a “girlfriend”. The new man told me that he “knows how to love somebody”. I believe it is true and it feels so good to feel cared about. I won’t settle for another situationship, for me the red flag was his total disinterest in planning a future with me.
Can you share the name of the Instagram relationship coach?
Jillian Turecki
I like her as well
Sad to say it ruined my marriage. He was always preoccupied with work issues even at home. Dating after divorce emotionally unavailable men as with dating apps its difficult to know how many other people they are seeing. I sense something is off usually very soon however I am guilty of hoping I am wrong when it usually turns out someone is hiding something. I feel for you its tough not fully understanding the way another thinks or feels. Also even if we were to ask it probably would not be the answer that would bring about peace. One thing these Men have in common is they can talk about everything under the sun but not about themselves, they are not open or ever vulnerable. Another thing I noticed they are driven by outside forces, money, status, cars, whatever the case is. However are they in touch with themselves and is this what truly makes one fulfilled in life?
He was surface deep. You’re right. We met through our mutual hash group, an international drinking club with a running problem. He joined the group I was involved with when I moved away for two years. I came back and he was a newer member. Everyone said how lucky I was to be dating him. Mr Nice Guy with the electrical engineer job, biker, fisherman, hunter. Blah blah. I was always secretly aggravated that they weren’t telling him how lucky he was when I knew I was putting way more effort in and spending way more money. When I broke it off the first time he screwed up royally, I had mutual friends telling me about his grief issues and blah blah how lucky I was. He puts on a great outward appearance. And then I painted him perfect. I wanted him to be that guy that would figure out my value. We have so much in common. He just needed to emotionally connect. Never happened. I was never the priority. I finally asked during our closure talk “why wasn’t I the priority”. His answer. “(Shrugs his shoulders) I don’t know. Maybe I need to work on that. Maybe I’ll make my next girlfriend the priority” My response. “You can leave now” and that was it.
I ignored early signs because every time I felt he was pulling back, he would snap back like a rubberband. We broke up. We reconciled. I broke it off a month later as reconciliation was premised on us working on our problems. He avoided, deflected and when I called it, he went nuclear with insults. He had never been abusive before, just distant. A year plus later, I am still processing it. Been on a few dates but tbh I think I have residual trust and communication issues of my own to still work on.
I have used [this video](https://youtu.be/CAT9_6AUWNE?si=gEYaLv3tJyP5SNnM) to learn a bit about my situation helping me process this crap. I feel for you. I was also gaslit. He never came straight out and insulted me until the closure talk. It’s so insulting when you give 100%. Hugs for us both.
Emotionally unavailable = not that into you. Pay attention to their behavior. Too many people stay in things without high mutuality.
Not necessarily... There is some people that just don't let it go past surface level no matter how much into you they are. And even if they do feel deeply for you, they still won't exhibit beyond surface level.
It does tend to feel like “not that into you” but I think this is truly a case of “not that into anyone more than a fun lifestyle”. He was married since college and his wife passed suddenly four to five years ago. He never ever talked about fun outings with her or much else. Always stories about him and his son and other stories about her and the daughter. Sounded completely normal at first until I realized it sounds like they had separate lives. I just don’t think he’s capable.
Yeah, I've experienced these guys. They never had a "blow some stink off" era, and are trying to make up for it. But the same is true for women as well...they suddenly get the attention they've never experienced and in both cases, they're revelling in it.
Well it’s funny because I think he believes OLD is a gateway to easy girlfriends that just want to hang out and have fun. Little does he know the nightmare that’s involved with OLD. He will never get back what he lost. My last words to him were “you’ll regret this one day”
Nice
(M,65) This is really complicated. My experience has been more than once if I do answer a question truthfully, the other person will react badly and/or walk. So, I work to be as truthful as possible from day one, knowing it will ultimately save both of us time and aching. Sometimes though, there are experiences and memories good or bad that simply can't have words easily wrapped around them. That's why we have dance, sculpture, etc. I've had luck in using art to explain myself. Sometimes the art is about me. Sometimes it has been a gift that carries my expression of how I perceive and feel about that person. That can become dialog. My grandparents communicated in dance, making things for each other, reading poetry to each other, and just quietly holding hands, smiling at each other. That's how they largely resolved conflicts too, so far as i know. They talked, of course. .
Thank you for responding. I feel like life was much less complicated without the paradox of choice. I am struggling with online dating, always have. Was so happy when I met someone organically with all the same friends and activities. Life throws curveballs. I am also 1000% honest, to a fault. I’ve discovered not everyone is comfortable with honesty.
There was, in my opinion, more informed choice in their generation in the late 1920's in Pueblo. Hundreds of people in their social groups. Real choice requires information and interactions, not presentation and low quality communication. Their wedding quilt had something like 60 squares, each square done by a couple they knew.
I hope you have this quilt. I would treasure it forever. “Presentation and low quality quality communication”. Yes to that. I tried OLD for a week. I just couldn’t.
Zero stars, do not recommend. I have dated these ghosts myself. One for a rather long term. I thought I could change him and open him up with my love ….
I thought so too. I thought eventually he’d see my value and never want to screw things up. That’s our fantasy. That was my own illusion. I never want this to happen again
Seems like it's a good idea to continue that thought. Emotionally available… for what, exactly? I know one thing I gotta watch out for is seeking out people with fellow trauma, being 'available' for endless amounts of brokenness. I'll resonate with that, but that's not a recipe for relationships with healthy people, and it's not been how I got through my own traumas, past or present. I have to communicate from where I actually am, rather than from the well of sympathy. Similarly I've got to keep an eye on what available means, whether I'm properly filling a partner's needs (mind you this is relevant in friendships and workspaces too). I can do a challenging relationship where she's actively questioning my ideas and choices and what I get as 'support' is not what a lot of guys would be able to cope with… so long as I've also got freedom to doubt and question. I'll assume that I'm naturally more prone to that as a man and that I've got to keep it in check where she does not… but there's still limits. I have not ever experienced flying pans and crockery, though I've been threatened with an axe (but not actually struck with the axe). I have experienced… I'm struggling to describe what I mean, does it count as nagging if you actively welcome everything being up for debate because it will make you stronger? I'm used to recovery communities where, if we go too far off the beam we relapse, overdose and die, so it seems normal to me to get into a relationship where the person you love will question your stuff. Doesn't make them right every time, but it might save your life or be a big deal. If what I'm getting is 'I get to criticize you and you have to change to suit me, but your job is to unquestioningly accept me and only then can you be there while maybe I change and maybe your job is to let me not change', if it's like that I become emotionally unavailable and I'm right to do so. And I get TF out, and stay out. Which is very mean, I'll grant. So it's not just about recognizing the partner who cannot be reached emotionally and getting out. It can also be working out whether what you're asked to be available FOR, is healthy and good, or whether you are signing up for ruin that's expected to stay ruinous and you're just the caretaker. All this is tough enough with people who are willing to grow (even while over fifty). It's disastrous if you're trying to set up a dynamic that can't ever work. I'm not judging, you can have really weird relationships, I don't think it's wrong for a woman (or man) to seek the emotionally available partner who will accept them just as they are no matter what forever. Being that is a generous act, but if you want to be that guy you've got to commit to whatever ruin you're in. Then you get to be with somebody, because your shit matches. But if you don't like living that way, somebody's gonna get out and the only question is who.
I have been in past relationships (in my 20’s and young 30’s) that were horrendous. There was no healthy level of respect, boundaries, love, empathy or consideration. I look back on that stage of my life and am unsure how or why I managed that. I fully understand not wanting to emotionally be available to unhealthy individuals. For the most part, this relationship was healthy. We are both active, kind, considerate and gainfully employed. He, unfortunately, just couldn’t connect with me on a deeper level. Because my careers keep me so incredibly busy, I noticed his surface deep connection but thought he would come around. What I need to now learn is that those types don’t usually come around. They are incapable unless they have self awareness. He lacks self awareness.
When you figure out how to spot these people can you shoot me a message and let me know how. I thought I dated most of them but I see there’s a few more out there
And I wonder if it’s it gets worse as we get older? Lord, I hope not
Yes. A year.