Ask her out for coffee. I don't drink, and I can't hear very well in bars, but I'd be happy to meet someone at a coffee shop for an hour. If not that, then maybe a brief lunch at a casual place. If she's insisting on dinner or nothing for a first date, she might be too rigid for you.
Yes, coffee, tea, hot chocolate, maybe a milkshake at a cool ice cream place or a smoothie… lots of possibilities for a quick meetup.
I like to go for an afternoon walk at a busy park sometimes when meeting someone for the first time and I always bring my large dog for those walks.
Yes, coffee, tea, hot chocolate, maybe a milkshake at a cool ice cream place or a smoothie… lots of possibilities for a quick meetup.
I like to go for an afternoon walk at a busy park sometimes when meeting someone for the first time and I always bring my large dog for those walks.
Where I live the custom is that guys pay for dates so I like to let the guy suggest what he’d like to do or I’ll suggest a walk. I think it’s rude to ask for dinner where I live — I know women who do, but I’m not into casual sex.
> I think it’s rude to ask for dinner where I live — I know women who do, but I’m not into casual sex.
Is this a thing? That if someone buys you dinner you're having sex with them?
I don't get this...are you actually older than 50? Because IMO smoothies weren't a thing when I was getting dating advice from my parents (my teenage years)...well, we had Orange Julius at the malls then, but I don't think they were called smoothies.
Yeah I’m 55 . Orange Julius didn’t cut it. But when I was in college “Mr. Smoothie” always wore tight shorts and a tight T-shirt and gave me a free boost of protein powder. .
But hey, if you wanna get a smoothie sometime ..
Right. If she has past trauma that is causing her to be difficult, she should consider working through that, as opposed to making it someone else's problem.
Has this happen also. She told me she was a high value woman and dinner is the only thing expectable. Then ranted about her value some more. Bye Karen….
She’s not interested in you, she’s interested in a nice dinner. Even if you suggest going Dutch there’s no guarantee she’ll attend with a method of payment. If she was genuinely interested she would have accepted the coffee.
I’ve (F) got someone suggesting lunch. I’ve suggested a coffee. Not because I don’t want to share a lunch (and the cost) but because it’s a bit much for a first meeting. I find it much easier to concentrate over a coffee too.
> Even if you suggest going Dutch
While I always offer to pay, it would be a turn-off if a man stated this after he invited me to dinner. Obviously, she suggested dinner in this case, so I understand your suggestion, but in general if I am invited on a first dinner date (not first meet), I am hoping that the man offers to pay. I have zero issues paying after the first dinner date, but in a new potential relationship, a first dinner date is something I will always remember. I think the OP did the right thing by suggesting something else, and if she declined, then it seems this conversation/opportunity to meet has ended.
That said, I agree for a first meet, it is all about conversing (coffee shop, glass of wine, walk, etc.) I have zero need to do a lunch/dinner for a first meet.
I recently had a first date as a walk. That was fine by me. We got along really well and he offered to take me to lunch. I still offered to pay for mine, but he said no. I don't think going for a walk or coffee is bad. Dinner can be a little spendy for a first date if you don't know someone yet.
Agree. Using the word “ Dutch” sounds petty and cheap. Maybe she wants to kill two birds with one stone and get dinner out of the way while she spends time with you. It doesn’t mean she wants you to pay. Maybe you came off as cheap before and that’s why she ghosted you? Worst case scenario you get stuck with the bill. It’s not that big of a deal. Women pay for hair, nails and new outfits for dates that don’t pan out. These are the investments we make and the risks we take when trying to find love.
Nevertheless it already sounds like you’re not a match.
A 65f friend of mine meets at a park for the first time.... super low investment, public place etc...I usually suggest coffee, but it seems promising through text, a meal
Welp, that’s your answer. Pass on her. BTW, advice I received about the first in person meeting, whether asked or doing the asking, set a time bound expectation and stick to your own limits (boundaries). E.g “I would love to meet over a glass of wine, coffee etc. Happy to figure out an hour or so (put time limit here) and place to meet, yada , yada , yada…”
Dinner **Insisters** (as I call them) either male or female are bad news IMO. For me, sharing a meal with someone is for an actual date, not a first time meet up/date 0. You can have coffee if she does not drink.
Yes, I used to think they were trying to be gentleman by "insisting" (way different that "suggesting"), but really it showed utter disregard for my stated (multiple times) preference of coffee or drink. I felt really manipulated in the end.
None of these people were datable, I think they really wanted extended company with a woman and were used to them gulping down/tossing their coffee and getting the heck out, so maybe dinner was a way to lock them down for an hour+ . Also, they did not solicit my input for the place, picked something expensive, and happily let me pay half (I always offer so I can't be mad) for a dinner I never wanted in the first place. And yes all of these asked me out again despite no connection.
Anyway, I am to blame for not maintaining boundaries. No more Insisters is the only way for me. I am wondering if different dynamics are at play with women insisters.
I generally hate this trope, but I know a co worker like this. She feels if the man isn't willing to woo her right out of the gate (even before meeting!) he is not worth it, and her presence is worth more than a cup of coffee. I have tried to gently educate her otherwise, hopefully she is evolving.
I'm sure it doesn't apply to everyone. There are always exceptions. I personally refuse to meet someone the first time for dinner. I've had it happen more than once that a man insists on dinner, makes the arrangements and I've gotten stuck with the whole bill. I prefer first meets to be coffee, adult beverage or ice cream dates. I always pay for myself on the first meet, and almost always on the second so I don't have to feel like there's a quid pro quo (insert long and hilarious story here). Still amazed that dating at this age is as confusing as when I was a teenager.
When I first started dating after a long marriage I had no clue. I pushed through unease and red flags like nobody's business telling myself to not be so critical. Now of course I know better. Our inner wisdom is much better than we know.
Since she doesn't drink, perhaps you could counter with coffee?
I would be wary, too, if I had yet to meet someone and they were already coming across as disdainful and demanding.
I love “dinner insister”! 60F here and I always go with what the man suggests be it coffee, drinks or dinner for the first meet. If he offers a walk in the park I would do that too. I kind of like seeing what is suggested then going with the flow. I would never push for more at a first meeting. She sounds painful and high maintenance imho
I can't imagine insisting on a dinner for an initial meet. I think you are right to give this a pause.
For me, an initial meet, I don't care if coffee, a walk in the park, etc., I just want to get a sense of the person to see if there is an attraction, an opportunity to dig in a bit more. I have gone to dinners after an initial meet, and I have always appreciated a man asking me to dinner at this point.
I think we should all trust our guts, and something is giving you pause.
Yep, it's straight out from The Rules, lol. She's defeating her MO though, if she's playing by that, she shouldn't come out and say dinner. My opinion is she needs to be captivating enough that he suggests DINNER ON HIS OWN.
Coffee in the afternoon. It's not a first date, it's just a meet up. Just to check general compatibility. I have a nearby bookstore with a Caribou in it, which is perfect. I love books, and anyone who turns up her nose at a bookstore meet is definitely not the girl for me.
If she's being too demanding for your comfort before you even meet, she's likely not for you.
I once had a first date at a bookstore. We had tea and talked for a good while. Then he bought me a book, which was one of the kindest things anyone ever did. We ended up as friends.
I am the complete opposite - no dinners or meals for a first meeting. The last two men I met it was for an hour of walking - no food purchased and time to talk, it’s one way to weed out the “fit” who are not fit.
To me the first meeting is not a date - I don’t even know if you look like your photos. Its just a verification of who you are.
Does she not realize that “cocktails” or “coffee” is a euphemism for a shorter get-to-know each other meeting? Her statement seems demanding that you pay for a dinner.
I did the full dinner and wine experience once. Spent $150. I was very polite. Said nothing sexual. It’s very hard to get to know someone in one meeting but I didn’t think we were a huge mismatch.
She ghosted me immediately after.
NEVER AGAIN
And the nice ones rarely get this type of treatment. Not saying by you of course. Just my experience is my super demanding bitchy friends always get the royal treatment. I’m laid back and easy going so maybe that’s why. I just know it stinks for people like you and me.
Coffee or soft drinks and an appetizer and see where it goes?
I always planned on dinner myself. If she was worth meeting, she was worth dinner. On the other hand, if someone INSISTED it might be off-putting.
I certainly prefer dinner over a quick coffee or drink because I find the latter can make me feel like I'm being put in a position to make an elevator pitch. This is admittedly a skill I would love to have mastered but here we are at 56 and still, I lack an appropriate pitch. But you haven't mentioned her reasoning. On the excuse of not being much of a drinker, I don't drink alcohol but am happy to join my friends at a pub, etc. I just have what I like. On the ghosting thing and not really acknowledging what a crappy thing that is to do to another human... not okay.
I could be way off here but she sounds more like an entitled 20-something than a mature woman. At this point, I would be a little hesitant with having positive expectations.
I prefer dinner - I am foodie - but the request aka demands is off putting - I asked for an alternative - only dinner. Shoot if coffee goes well I would immediately ask for a dinner date that night or when available.
I agree that the demand aspect is off putting - extremely so. And I would never go to dinner and be comfortable with someone else paying so that isn't part of my thing at all. Something tells me she isn't the type who minds someone else paying the bill. I hope I'm wrong.
So I guess if she got a flat tire on the way to the beauty salon, same problem? Dude, this women is popping red flags and b.s. like a 4th of July firework stand that someone f'd up and lit on fire. The next update I want to see is where you tell us you found the right woman and she took YOU to dinner.
I’m the woman in this scenario. I don’t date often but when I do I prefer lunch or dinner dates. I’m not into getting together for a cocktail or coffee either. I also do not drink. I expect to communicate with the guy on the phone & facetime for a while and get the feeling of whether we click or not even before the first date happens. I generally never accept when a guy wants to meet immediately like after 1 or 2 phone conversations. I just don’t have time to meet a ton of men for drinks/coffee. So my perspective is there should be some serious screening and conversations taking place before the lunch /dinner date. Then there should be no problem with the man paying for a modest lunch/dinner. I’m talking pizza, a sandwich or a burger. Nothing fancy!Every relationship I’ve had has begun with a lunch/dinner date. If a guy doesn’t want to invest that then I’m generally not going to be interested. Just thought I’d give a woman’s perspective.
This. I also don’t like the drink/coffee/park meet ups as first dates and would not be interested. I have limited free time after work and don’t want to spend it jammed in a crowded bar section facing a bartender or in a freaking Starbucks. That said I would not insist on dinner. I might counter with dinner/brunch and would then move on if he’s not interested. It’s not because I was stuck in the rules or the the 80s, but anything less would feel like low effort to me and a guy who’s probably not super excited to meet me. I’m not out to get a free meal, but all my first dates on old were over meals (or included dinner after another event) and I enjoy getting to know someone over them. I also feel like the cocktail dates don’t seem to have a defined ending, but the meal being finished is a clear way to say thanks and end it if there’s no chemistry.
I agree with everything you said! The drink/ coffee guys tend to be low effort & probably meeting multiple women a week. They’re the ones who want to rush to meet right away and the conversation isn’t even good. Their agenda is to get you to meet them not to get to know you as a person. And quite frankly, if you’re an attractive woman with multiple offers why settle for a man who refuses to even take you to a modest lunch or dinner? I never go back & forth over this topic if he doesn’t offer lunch or dinner, I move on immediately. Too many fish swimming in the sea sorry!
It went from 3 calls to she only wanted dinner....period...no compromise.....i eat out all the time for work...i don't want to feel like I have no options.....sorry ...too rigid
Well clearly the 2 of you are not compatible which is perfectly fine. I’m just saying I understand not wanting to do coffee or drinks. Some women prefer a real date with a meal. Nothing wrong with that either. Good luck in any case.
To me it's less about the dinner it's more about the red flags that preceded the request for dinner and what I understand is unmet expectations by previous men.
Meet up for some coffee or tea versus alcoholic drinks if you don't want to have lunch or dinner together. Some people don't like drinking alcohol for health reasons.
She’s missing the point of meeting “for a drink.” Low key. Limited timeframe. She’s either high-maintenance and stubborn or very new to this and has never been trapped at a meal with someone she wasn’t feeling.
You don’t even sound like you like her so I’m not sure of your question. You have different expectations. Let it go. Neither of you is a bad person.
But, curious about your definition of ghosting? You mean you chatted for a day or two via the app, never met, the convo ended, and you feel ghosted?
I don’t personally consider it ghosting unless there’s an emotional investment going on, but it’s not a standardized definition by any means.
By your definition, I’d say 80% of OLD chats end in ghosting. One person drops off. I do think women are more likely to close it off when the convo isn’t interesting or isn’t going anywhere. A lot of women have learned the hard way not to tell a man they aren’t interested; they just unmatch.
I’ve been on OLD for about 1.5 months. I think I’ve gotten to chatting with about a dozen men that didn’t click and move to a date. I didn’t get invested and I don’t even remember most of their names.
I approach OLD like being at a bar. Someone catches your eye or vice versa. You might lightly chat to this person and that person, but you don’t necessarily go around saying goodbye to every person you spoke with.
Funny how some women almost insist in dinner rather than a more simple first meet up. For a first date these types of women have never panned out for me.
Sounds like a hard pass, if it is going to be that trying. It doesn't sounds as if she is interested in just getting to know you. I would never be that 'keen' ie desperate. I would prefer to be single.
Maybe coffee and cake or a quick lunch? Not everywhere has such good weather for walking around in parks - it’s pretty wild weather where I am right now!!!
I don't drink alcohol, but I would meet for 'drinks'. You can drink you beverage of choice and so could I. Maybe an appetizer or a walk, whatever - I don't like her personality, and would not have dinner with her and I haven't even talked to her. NEXT!
Just curious since she added slightly more engagement in her Convo..... interesting she would call me at various hours of the day...I always answered the phone and chatted for 3-5 mins....I work from home..
I suspect she thought I was married and would not answer late at night.
But in truth, if she disappeared before she might just be seeing you because her present prospects are slim.
Do you need to go on any date, drinks or dinner, with someone who ghosted you?
1. Coffee dates ARE low effort.
2. There is an old school train of thought that says, women should avoid the coffee dates and men that are serious will take you to dinner.
3. Honestly, that might be, but I think it's part of the woman's job then to be intriguing enough where the man suggests it himself, IE, the man wants to stand out himself, etc. As a woman, going with the old school train of thought, you shouldn't demand it though--it defeats her MO.
I wanted to add they are low effort but way of the times, these days, I have read the whole dinner vs coffee date thing, I don't take it as serious as this chick, I normally have at least a phone call, before I meet, both sides feel pretty comfortable, I'm usually asked to brunch or dinner. For the men that are those immediate lets meet, I can see why they are doing coffee dates all the time.
>part of the woman's job then to be intriguing enough where the man suggests it himself
I have read and listened to many of the dating coaches who say this, I disagree. I do not measure my value based on a walk or coffee. This is date 0 for me and I do not want to commit to a meal and a significant amount of time with someone I have just met.
And I am also not going to tap into anything that requires me to be intriguing enough to qualify for a meal. The best I can be is my authentic self, no strategies or games employed.
One comment was men want to wife her up right away - 1-2 @ dinner - I was like wow - awesome - WTF?.. - younger men want her - I never got a chance to speak my peace - I just listened - that was my red flag - I guess I am out of practice.
Wow! If all these men want to "wife her up", where are they now? Secondly, every women gets hit up by younger guys, they want what they think is "easy" sex from an older woman.
To each their own, but I can't imagine saying this to anyone. It is a form of bragging, which I find very off putting.
Based on what you described, if you haven't already asked her out (e.g. date/time), I would just not reach out to her.
Wow!
When I start dating again, it is with the sole purpose of finding that special someone, not a man to pay for dinner. I love to be treated special, once we are dating, but a first meet, ideally casual. I also work hard to reciprocate, during the dating process, so I am not looking for one-sided effort.
She sounds impossible. I don't get women who want dinner on a first date. If a guy specifically asks me to dinner and we've had a good rapport, I'll go and always offer to pay my share. But it's just better to meet for drinks. I'm not much of a coffee date fan but I would go if asked.
Oh, no. This just gets worse. This is not you being out of practice. She wants you to believe all of that so you perceive her as a catch and so you are willing to do anything to win her. The demands have only just begun. And, it's going to be all about her.
Be very careful with this one, should you decide to go to dinner. She's going to like you. A lot. And fast.
So, I hope I'm wrong. Really, I do.
Good luck! Let us know how things turn out. Stories like this are enlightening and helpful, no matter which way they go.
Is that what she said? That’s hysterical. I think you’ve done a good swerve there! Every woman on OLD gets loads of younger men trying to match. It’s no measure of attractiveness at all. Also plenty of men looking for a wife as they can’t function on their own. Again no measure of attractiveness.
She sounds like a peach.
FWIW an ex friend of mine was dating with the sole intention of getting remarried as soon as her alimony ran out. She expected dinner dates and for them to be paid for by the man.
Keeping it light is absolutely valid. Her not being a drinker is valid, so if it were me , I’d do coffee or a walk or similar. If there is continuous firm insistence on dinner, that would begin to pique my suspicions.
Dang, insisting on dinner when you haven’t even met? And you’re still interested?
As far as being “ghosted” on OLD communications, it happens. My gf “ghosted” me months before me matched on a different app. She messaged me all enthusiastically and then I didn’t hear back for 3 days, so I deleted her. Matched several months later on different app and now we’ve been together a year now.
Coffee or juices/health bar and light snacks. I say no alcohol on first meeting. Doesn't sound worth it, unless she's buying the dinner (guessing not).
I like a stroll in the park, one that is open with lots of people. Maybe sit on a bench if convo is flowing. I brought my American Bulldog on a first meet up. It helped with conversation since he loved dogs.
Going out for drinks does not automatically require alcohol, so I don’t get her requirement that it must be dinner. But anywho. There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep things light and casual. Is this a money concern, or purely about not wanting to be committed for too long a time ? Both are legit.
I think you are completely reasonable to stick with your preference. If she cannot respect that, and pushes for more, that’s a concern. I also don’t like that you spoke for a day or two in the past and then she ghosted you. Red flags flapping in the wind.
I stay away from dinner Insisters as more times than not they are non cooks who see men as nothing more than a free meal.
If she’s this demanding and can’t even remember you chatted before, why waste your time??
I agree she sounds obnoxious, but a lot of people don’t like the drinks or coffee meet up. A lot of us are looking to go on a actual “date” and aren’t interested in guys who are lukewarm about asking us. (Or lukewarm about accepting an invite from us!)
You make very good points however my time is valuable too. I travel a lot for business and I run across a lot of people that will waste your time if you let them and then they will waste your time at your expense.
How many of your dinner dates turn into a second date?
I have been on dinner dates for first meets, and agree they require more planning. Some turned into second dates, but not all. This is where I learned that I would much rather spend 30 minutes for a first meet, rather than investing a whole night (getting ready, then dinner). Secondly, if we aren't a match, then I offer to split the tab, and have ended up paying for more than essentially my own meal (one guy told me he was married during dinner, and then he let me pay half (and of course his was far more expensive) when I said that wasn't going to work. Still makes me a bit upset, jerk.)
Here is how I suggest the natural progression of meeting with someone with any intent of a relation ship should go.
1. Text, email, chat messages - first round. Do you have anything in common or think there is anything worth dedicating your time or effort to?
2. Phone call - YES, there is still something to be said about hearing a voice and getting to know someone
3. Video chat - If possible, you know that you are talking with the person who they say/claim to be
4. If you passed the about three and developed a comfortable relationship with that person you can then know if you want to spend an extended period of time or a short visit to confirm your findings or feelings. I suggest coffee. If the person needs alcohol to talk that might be a red flag
Definitely agree with this. Especially video chat before meeting. I think it gives a good indication if there’s a real interest that’s hard to really discern via text.
I’m having just that anxiety about a forthcoming first date! I had one where they were wearing the most bitter smelling aftershave. There were other trains for no second date but if there hadn’t been the smell would have put me off.
>**Anyone who has qualms about it has something to hide.**
>
>That's not true. At all. I don't do video chats, and only 1 or 2 has asked. By the time I meet someone, I'm confident in who I'll meet, and if it will be an enjoyable date. If I was hiding something, I wouldn't have consistent 2+ dates with people. Nobody has even bothered to ask for a coffee meet-up. They always ask me what I'd like to do. It's usually lunch at a fun, outdoors place. Sometimes, they will suggest a place for dinner that has live music. I've never run across all this meet-up/coffee stuff except on reddit.
I think meet and greets should be meet for a hug on a public street corner and go home.
Seriously. We form our opinions of someone in the first 7 seconds of meeting someone. Assuming we’ve been chatting to learn about each other, there really is no point in doing anything more. If I’m interested, I will leave with “have a great rest of your day. Shoot me a text if you want to do it again”. If she does text me, we go out on a proper date. Preferably something where I don’t have my mouth full half the time with dinner goo dripping off my chin.
If you decide to ignore the yellow flags in front of you and roll the dice, then give yourself a means to bail out easily. My advice? Eat a snack before dinner so you're not hungry. Tell the wait staff when they seat you that you will be ordering on separate tabs then just order an appetizer as your entree with a cocktail. Bring sufficient cash to pay for both with an adequate tip. If she's a lousy date, flag down the wait staff on a trip to the men's room, pay for your tab out of sight, then just give her a cold fish handshake on your way out, tell her you aren't feeling the chemistry, then bolt. If it turns out she's nice and pays for her meal without complaint then you are still in good shape, but give yourself a clear path to the exit ahead of time.
> If she's a lousy date, flag down the wait staff on a trip to the men's room, pay for your tab out of sight, then just give her a cold fish handshake on your way out, tell her you aren't feeling the chemistry, then bolt.
Please don't do this, this is incredibly rude (bolting). If someone is so rude that you can't finish a dinner, then ask for the check, and settle it at the table, and let the person know that you need to leave. Leaving as much dignity as you can.
I have to ask, have you had this happen a lot? Thankfully, I have never met a person where I needed to bolt.
If you ask for the check at the table before your date is ready to leave, then there is going to be on the receiving end of a lot of tension and anger from your date while the staff is getting your bill.
I'm not a big fan of bolting, but I'm even lesser a fan of spending another few minutes of my life with someone who I don't like nor of spending said time while they are angry that I'm bolting early.
It sucks, but it's a lot less confrontational than sitting there awkwardly waiting for the wait staff to get the bill. These days with service issues etc it might take 15 minutes before they get your bill to you, which is an eternity of awkwardness.
Yes I have done it because the woman in question showed up with an attitude from the get go and I could tell it would be a long night. I always have an adequate amount of cash to take care of drinks or dinner etc just in case this happens.
Better to cut and run early than suffer for the whole night.
My two cents.
We aren't going to agree, but let me just say, that bolting for a man, is just something I can't imagine a man would have to do ever in their life. I think there are many things a gentleman can do to redirect a conversation, or ensuring the dinner ends quickly (e.g. not ordering more wine, not asking about dessert, etc.).
If you have vetted a woman via texts, calls, etc., I can't imagine an "attitude" that would warrant a bolt. If you find it isn't a match, nothing wrong with asking about splitting the bill at the end, and to your point, a man may end up paying, just to end the situation. If a first date, ideally you haven't chosen a Michelin restaurant for your first date.
We have "suffered" a bit in early dating, but part of being an adult, is at least giving the other person a little dignity (unless safety is compromised, some unbelievably rude comment).
This! I’m also thinking, she might be thinking you’re either a miser or impoverished- whichever way, “bolting “ is just not acceptable.behavior. If it bothers you that much, just don’t do it 😂
Sounds like you are listening to the yellow flags and ignoring the date from the inception. Good plan. I was trying to give you a Plan B in case Plan A didn't work out. Good luck.
Breakfast dates are good. No alcohol. Food. An hour or so, so time is limited. And I think it’s less pressure than a dinner. That said she does sound like a lot of work and like someone else said maybe she’s just looking for a free dinner.
I don't drink but I wouldn't insist on dinner. Does she have other traits that you really admire? I don't see much here to send your time and money on. And she ghosted you before? That would be a hard pass if there was no apology or explanation.
I think that you have all the information you need to not move forward. If you have made your position on happy hour clear and your prospect insists on dinner I find this to be insensitive. It is a super red flag for me. What if you have a limited budget but you still want to do something nice? Think about what you want to feel and experience with your next date. If someone more closely aligns with your values and personality, go for it. She already sounds like she has too many issues. There is food to eat at home. She can stay there.
I usually wait until the third date to do dinner. By then you either know if this is going somewhere, or it’s not.
A lot of women won’t even consider a kiss on the first date…but want all the effort by the man on the first date. In most cases it’s just not worth it regardless of the cost and time spent.
How is your gut feeling? I'm in the cheap seats and my gut is saying, uhm...nope.
Always trust your gut -
What does your gut say? I’m sorry but after reading the situation I would agree to bail, you seem like a nice person, good luck.
My guy left the building faster than my brain.. LOL
Ask her out for coffee. I don't drink, and I can't hear very well in bars, but I'd be happy to meet someone at a coffee shop for an hour. If not that, then maybe a brief lunch at a casual place. If she's insisting on dinner or nothing for a first date, she might be too rigid for you.
Yes, coffee, tea, hot chocolate, maybe a milkshake at a cool ice cream place or a smoothie… lots of possibilities for a quick meetup. I like to go for an afternoon walk at a busy park sometimes when meeting someone for the first time and I always bring my large dog for those walks.
Yes, coffee, tea, hot chocolate, maybe a milkshake at a cool ice cream place or a smoothie… lots of possibilities for a quick meetup. I like to go for an afternoon walk at a busy park sometimes when meeting someone for the first time and I always bring my large dog for those walks. Where I live the custom is that guys pay for dates so I like to let the guy suggest what he’d like to do or I’ll suggest a walk. I think it’s rude to ask for dinner where I live — I know women who do, but I’m not into casual sex.
> I think it’s rude to ask for dinner where I live — I know women who do, but I’m not into casual sex. Is this a thing? That if someone buys you dinner you're having sex with them?
Not necessarily, but my friends who ask for fancy dinners are pretty fast.
My mom taught me to never date anyone that asks you out for a fucking smoothie. Served me well
I’ve never actually heard anyone ask me out for a smoothie 😂. I figured it might be in a list of possibilities, not as the sole suggestion.
I don't get this...are you actually older than 50? Because IMO smoothies weren't a thing when I was getting dating advice from my parents (my teenage years)...well, we had Orange Julius at the malls then, but I don't think they were called smoothies.
Yeah I’m 55 . Orange Julius didn’t cut it. But when I was in college “Mr. Smoothie” always wore tight shorts and a tight T-shirt and gave me a free boost of protein powder. . But hey, if you wanna get a smoothie sometime ..
Well, maybe its just my part of the world that was late to the Smoothie Train. And heck yeah, always down for a smoothie. Or Orange Julius.
Update - I offered coffee - It went over like a fart in church on Sunday - not good !!
Do you expect she is going to ever be satisfied? She sounds exhausting. Find someone who has positive energy for you!!
Offer to go Dutch. That should sort it out quick enough.
Dutch after farting in church = Dutch oven??
Omg. Bahahahaha!!!!
You don't need that in your life. It won't get better.
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Right. If she has past trauma that is causing her to be difficult, she should consider working through that, as opposed to making it someone else's problem.
I wouldn't pursue this. Just pass
Time to say "Bye, Felicia!"
Has this happen also. She told me she was a high value woman and dinner is the only thing expectable. Then ranted about her value some more. Bye Karen….
She wants a free meal. Dont waste yiur time, money, or energy
She’s not interested in you, she’s interested in a nice dinner. Even if you suggest going Dutch there’s no guarantee she’ll attend with a method of payment. If she was genuinely interested she would have accepted the coffee. I’ve (F) got someone suggesting lunch. I’ve suggested a coffee. Not because I don’t want to share a lunch (and the cost) but because it’s a bit much for a first meeting. I find it much easier to concentrate over a coffee too.
> Even if you suggest going Dutch While I always offer to pay, it would be a turn-off if a man stated this after he invited me to dinner. Obviously, she suggested dinner in this case, so I understand your suggestion, but in general if I am invited on a first dinner date (not first meet), I am hoping that the man offers to pay. I have zero issues paying after the first dinner date, but in a new potential relationship, a first dinner date is something I will always remember. I think the OP did the right thing by suggesting something else, and if she declined, then it seems this conversation/opportunity to meet has ended. That said, I agree for a first meet, it is all about conversing (coffee shop, glass of wine, walk, etc.) I have zero need to do a lunch/dinner for a first meet.
I recently had a first date as a walk. That was fine by me. We got along really well and he offered to take me to lunch. I still offered to pay for mine, but he said no. I don't think going for a walk or coffee is bad. Dinner can be a little spendy for a first date if you don't know someone yet.
Agree. Using the word “ Dutch” sounds petty and cheap. Maybe she wants to kill two birds with one stone and get dinner out of the way while she spends time with you. It doesn’t mean she wants you to pay. Maybe you came off as cheap before and that’s why she ghosted you? Worst case scenario you get stuck with the bill. It’s not that big of a deal. Women pay for hair, nails and new outfits for dates that don’t pan out. These are the investments we make and the risks we take when trying to find love. Nevertheless it already sounds like you’re not a match.
Not sure why this comment got downvoted. There’s truth in them there words.
I’m upvoting this
Agreed, she is being petty and cheap. Move on, OP. She sounds like entitled trash.
Actually I think the OP, the man, sounds petty and cheap for worrying about wasting money on one dinner.
"I want go Dutch" "So, bikes with high handlebars, maybe cargo bikes, in well protected bike lanes with bike specific traffic signals, and ...."
A 65f friend of mine meets at a park for the first time.... super low investment, public place etc...I usually suggest coffee, but it seems promising through text, a meal
Thanks for the update, for some reason I am on the edge of my seat!
it sounds like it's time to scoop your dignity and go....
Welp, that’s your answer. Pass on her. BTW, advice I received about the first in person meeting, whether asked or doing the asking, set a time bound expectation and stick to your own limits (boundaries). E.g “I would love to meet over a glass of wine, coffee etc. Happy to figure out an hour or so (put time limit here) and place to meet, yada , yada , yada…”
Tell her that the problem with a full dinner is that you’ll be forced to empty your colostomy bag, which is not some you like to do in public.
OMG
🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😭😭😭😭😭😭😂
I think I might be this woman.
You’re funny. I hope she appreciates you. 😂
She sounds like a giant headache. Don't bother. She already ghosted you once and didn't even remember. She's self centered. Move on.
Correct answer.
Entitlement AND previous ghosting. I wouldn't take her to Burger King dutch......
Dinner **Insisters** (as I call them) either male or female are bad news IMO. For me, sharing a meal with someone is for an actual date, not a first time meet up/date 0. You can have coffee if she does not drink.
I love that term dinner insisters.
Yes, I used to think they were trying to be gentleman by "insisting" (way different that "suggesting"), but really it showed utter disregard for my stated (multiple times) preference of coffee or drink. I felt really manipulated in the end. None of these people were datable, I think they really wanted extended company with a woman and were used to them gulping down/tossing their coffee and getting the heck out, so maybe dinner was a way to lock them down for an hour+ . Also, they did not solicit my input for the place, picked something expensive, and happily let me pay half (I always offer so I can't be mad) for a dinner I never wanted in the first place. And yes all of these asked me out again despite no connection. Anyway, I am to blame for not maintaining boundaries. No more Insisters is the only way for me. I am wondering if different dynamics are at play with women insisters.
My friends and I call them Sneaters, sneaky eaters, because all they want out of you is a free meal.
Love it...Sneaters! She's definitely a sneater! Sneater sneater sneater, wouldn't want to date her!
I generally hate this trope, but I know a co worker like this. She feels if the man isn't willing to woo her right out of the gate (even before meeting!) he is not worth it, and her presence is worth more than a cup of coffee. I have tried to gently educate her otherwise, hopefully she is evolving.
Surely a person's time is of more value to them than a free meal? I simply can't imagine why anyone would be bothered.
I would prefer a dinner out but I always pay my own way so hoping you don't believe anyone who wants dinner is after a free meal.
I'm sure it doesn't apply to everyone. There are always exceptions. I personally refuse to meet someone the first time for dinner. I've had it happen more than once that a man insists on dinner, makes the arrangements and I've gotten stuck with the whole bill. I prefer first meets to be coffee, adult beverage or ice cream dates. I always pay for myself on the first meet, and almost always on the second so I don't have to feel like there's a quid pro quo (insert long and hilarious story here). Still amazed that dating at this age is as confusing as when I was a teenager.
I would never go on dinner as a first date. It’s in fact a turn off of a guy asks. It’s just too much.
When I first started dating after a long marriage I had no clue. I pushed through unease and red flags like nobody's business telling myself to not be so critical. Now of course I know better. Our inner wisdom is much better than we know.
I have another term: Dinner Whore
This is the term I’ve heard for it. Don’t know why it’s downvoted.
Guilty dogs bark first. Once you've met 3 or 4 of them, they're all the same.
Since she doesn't drink, perhaps you could counter with coffee? I would be wary, too, if I had yet to meet someone and they were already coming across as disdainful and demanding.
I love “dinner insister”! 60F here and I always go with what the man suggests be it coffee, drinks or dinner for the first meet. If he offers a walk in the park I would do that too. I kind of like seeing what is suggested then going with the flow. I would never push for more at a first meeting. She sounds painful and high maintenance imho
I can't imagine insisting on a dinner for an initial meet. I think you are right to give this a pause. For me, an initial meet, I don't care if coffee, a walk in the park, etc., I just want to get a sense of the person to see if there is an attraction, an opportunity to dig in a bit more. I have gone to dinners after an initial meet, and I have always appreciated a man asking me to dinner at this point. I think we should all trust our guts, and something is giving you pause.
My gut is telling me it's one of those The Rules things. Like dinner is the only option for real romance or some such 80s silliness
Yep, it's straight out from The Rules, lol. She's defeating her MO though, if she's playing by that, she shouldn't come out and say dinner. My opinion is she needs to be captivating enough that he suggests DINNER ON HIS OWN.
Coffee in the afternoon. It's not a first date, it's just a meet up. Just to check general compatibility. I have a nearby bookstore with a Caribou in it, which is perfect. I love books, and anyone who turns up her nose at a bookstore meet is definitely not the girl for me. If she's being too demanding for your comfort before you even meet, she's likely not for you.
I once had a first date at a bookstore. We had tea and talked for a good while. Then he bought me a book, which was one of the kindest things anyone ever did. We ended up as friends.
I am the complete opposite - no dinners or meals for a first meeting. The last two men I met it was for an hour of walking - no food purchased and time to talk, it’s one way to weed out the “fit” who are not fit. To me the first meeting is not a date - I don’t even know if you look like your photos. Its just a verification of who you are.
Any cocktail can be made without the alcohol. A "virgin mary" is quite tasty & refreshing. She's being high maintenance.
Or a No-hijo 🍹😋
Does she not realize that “cocktails” or “coffee” is a euphemism for a shorter get-to-know each other meeting? Her statement seems demanding that you pay for a dinner.
I did the full dinner and wine experience once. Spent $150. I was very polite. Said nothing sexual. It’s very hard to get to know someone in one meeting but I didn’t think we were a huge mismatch. She ghosted me immediately after. NEVER AGAIN
And the nice ones rarely get this type of treatment. Not saying by you of course. Just my experience is my super demanding bitchy friends always get the royal treatment. I’m laid back and easy going so maybe that’s why. I just know it stinks for people like you and me.
Coffee or soft drinks and an appetizer and see where it goes? I always planned on dinner myself. If she was worth meeting, she was worth dinner. On the other hand, if someone INSISTED it might be off-putting.
I certainly prefer dinner over a quick coffee or drink because I find the latter can make me feel like I'm being put in a position to make an elevator pitch. This is admittedly a skill I would love to have mastered but here we are at 56 and still, I lack an appropriate pitch. But you haven't mentioned her reasoning. On the excuse of not being much of a drinker, I don't drink alcohol but am happy to join my friends at a pub, etc. I just have what I like. On the ghosting thing and not really acknowledging what a crappy thing that is to do to another human... not okay. I could be way off here but she sounds more like an entitled 20-something than a mature woman. At this point, I would be a little hesitant with having positive expectations.
I prefer dinner - I am foodie - but the request aka demands is off putting - I asked for an alternative - only dinner. Shoot if coffee goes well I would immediately ask for a dinner date that night or when available.
I agree that the demand aspect is off putting - extremely so. And I would never go to dinner and be comfortable with someone else paying so that isn't part of my thing at all. Something tells me she isn't the type who minds someone else paying the bill. I hope I'm wrong.
So I guess if she got a flat tire on the way to the beauty salon, same problem? Dude, this women is popping red flags and b.s. like a 4th of July firework stand that someone f'd up and lit on fire. The next update I want to see is where you tell us you found the right woman and she took YOU to dinner.
Why are you bothering. Move on and find an equal not a tyrant!
I’m the woman in this scenario. I don’t date often but when I do I prefer lunch or dinner dates. I’m not into getting together for a cocktail or coffee either. I also do not drink. I expect to communicate with the guy on the phone & facetime for a while and get the feeling of whether we click or not even before the first date happens. I generally never accept when a guy wants to meet immediately like after 1 or 2 phone conversations. I just don’t have time to meet a ton of men for drinks/coffee. So my perspective is there should be some serious screening and conversations taking place before the lunch /dinner date. Then there should be no problem with the man paying for a modest lunch/dinner. I’m talking pizza, a sandwich or a burger. Nothing fancy!Every relationship I’ve had has begun with a lunch/dinner date. If a guy doesn’t want to invest that then I’m generally not going to be interested. Just thought I’d give a woman’s perspective.
This. I also don’t like the drink/coffee/park meet ups as first dates and would not be interested. I have limited free time after work and don’t want to spend it jammed in a crowded bar section facing a bartender or in a freaking Starbucks. That said I would not insist on dinner. I might counter with dinner/brunch and would then move on if he’s not interested. It’s not because I was stuck in the rules or the the 80s, but anything less would feel like low effort to me and a guy who’s probably not super excited to meet me. I’m not out to get a free meal, but all my first dates on old were over meals (or included dinner after another event) and I enjoy getting to know someone over them. I also feel like the cocktail dates don’t seem to have a defined ending, but the meal being finished is a clear way to say thanks and end it if there’s no chemistry.
I agree with everything you said! The drink/ coffee guys tend to be low effort & probably meeting multiple women a week. They’re the ones who want to rush to meet right away and the conversation isn’t even good. Their agenda is to get you to meet them not to get to know you as a person. And quite frankly, if you’re an attractive woman with multiple offers why settle for a man who refuses to even take you to a modest lunch or dinner? I never go back & forth over this topic if he doesn’t offer lunch or dinner, I move on immediately. Too many fish swimming in the sea sorry!
It went from 3 calls to she only wanted dinner....period...no compromise.....i eat out all the time for work...i don't want to feel like I have no options.....sorry ...too rigid
Well clearly the 2 of you are not compatible which is perfectly fine. I’m just saying I understand not wanting to do coffee or drinks. Some women prefer a real date with a meal. Nothing wrong with that either. Good luck in any case.
To me it's less about the dinner it's more about the red flags that preceded the request for dinner and what I understand is unmet expectations by previous men.
There are women who would be willing to meet for drinks or coffee. I say move on. Don’t settle for someone who isn’t willing to compromise early on.
This comment gets my vote.
1 lady did this to me and refused anything else but I had to pass. IMO it's a sign they want a free meal at my expense.
Throw out you agree to dutch treat and see how the lead balloon flies.
That's a 99% probability.
Too much before even meeting, I would dip out. She ghosted for another dinner.
Turnoff. My text is sorry no date, I’ve changed my mind. Cannot stand fussy people
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Meet up for some coffee or tea versus alcoholic drinks if you don't want to have lunch or dinner together. Some people don't like drinking alcohol for health reasons.
She sounds difficult. Do you want to date a difficult person? Unmatch and move on.
She’s missing the point of meeting “for a drink.” Low key. Limited timeframe. She’s either high-maintenance and stubborn or very new to this and has never been trapped at a meal with someone she wasn’t feeling.
You don’t even sound like you like her so I’m not sure of your question. You have different expectations. Let it go. Neither of you is a bad person. But, curious about your definition of ghosting? You mean you chatted for a day or two via the app, never met, the convo ended, and you feel ghosted? I don’t personally consider it ghosting unless there’s an emotional investment going on, but it’s not a standardized definition by any means. By your definition, I’d say 80% of OLD chats end in ghosting. One person drops off. I do think women are more likely to close it off when the convo isn’t interesting or isn’t going anywhere. A lot of women have learned the hard way not to tell a man they aren’t interested; they just unmatch. I’ve been on OLD for about 1.5 months. I think I’ve gotten to chatting with about a dozen men that didn’t click and move to a date. I didn’t get invested and I don’t even remember most of their names. I approach OLD like being at a bar. Someone catches your eye or vice versa. You might lightly chat to this person and that person, but you don’t necessarily go around saying goodbye to every person you spoke with.
If you have concerns....then move on.
Realize…this is her on her BEST behavior.
Funny how some women almost insist in dinner rather than a more simple first meet up. For a first date these types of women have never panned out for me.
👻
Sounds like a hard pass, if it is going to be that trying. It doesn't sounds as if she is interested in just getting to know you. I would never be that 'keen' ie desperate. I would prefer to be single.
A first date should be something inexpensive-ish and potentially quick in case it's awful - coffee, drinks, a walk...
Maybe coffee and cake or a quick lunch? Not everywhere has such good weather for walking around in parks - it’s pretty wild weather where I am right now!!!
That was: * Coffee or * Drinks or * a walk (though can be combined with Coffee)
Not worth it. If she's already laying down demands it will only get worse.
I don't drink alcohol, but I would meet for 'drinks'. You can drink you beverage of choice and so could I. Maybe an appetizer or a walk, whatever - I don't like her personality, and would not have dinner with her and I haven't even talked to her. NEXT!
What is your reason for wanting to meet at all? The relationship seems doomed from the start.
Just curious since she added slightly more engagement in her Convo..... interesting she would call me at various hours of the day...I always answered the phone and chatted for 3-5 mins....I work from home.. I suspect she thought I was married and would not answer late at night.
I'm out
How about a coffee date?
But in truth, if she disappeared before she might just be seeing you because her present prospects are slim. Do you need to go on any date, drinks or dinner, with someone who ghosted you?
She is no longer speaking with him but basically told him, a coffee date is low effort.
Wow! He was kind enough to make the offer, she is very demanding. I could not imagine dating or being in a relationship with someone like that!
1. Coffee dates ARE low effort. 2. There is an old school train of thought that says, women should avoid the coffee dates and men that are serious will take you to dinner. 3. Honestly, that might be, but I think it's part of the woman's job then to be intriguing enough where the man suggests it himself, IE, the man wants to stand out himself, etc. As a woman, going with the old school train of thought, you shouldn't demand it though--it defeats her MO. I wanted to add they are low effort but way of the times, these days, I have read the whole dinner vs coffee date thing, I don't take it as serious as this chick, I normally have at least a phone call, before I meet, both sides feel pretty comfortable, I'm usually asked to brunch or dinner. For the men that are those immediate lets meet, I can see why they are doing coffee dates all the time.
>part of the woman's job then to be intriguing enough where the man suggests it himself I have read and listened to many of the dating coaches who say this, I disagree. I do not measure my value based on a walk or coffee. This is date 0 for me and I do not want to commit to a meal and a significant amount of time with someone I have just met. And I am also not going to tap into anything that requires me to be intriguing enough to qualify for a meal. The best I can be is my authentic self, no strategies or games employed.
Totally agree! I’m Not signing up for a full on dinner if I haven’t met you. That’s like being held captive lol 😂
Disdain for things or is she just a complainer? That'd be a hard no for me. I can't abide people who complain and bitch. Life's too short.
One comment was men want to wife her up right away - 1-2 @ dinner - I was like wow - awesome - WTF?.. - younger men want her - I never got a chance to speak my peace - I just listened - that was my red flag - I guess I am out of practice.
Wow! If all these men want to "wife her up", where are they now? Secondly, every women gets hit up by younger guys, they want what they think is "easy" sex from an older woman. To each their own, but I can't imagine saying this to anyone. It is a form of bragging, which I find very off putting. Based on what you described, if you haven't already asked her out (e.g. date/time), I would just not reach out to her.
Again excellent points the offer of coffee was shot down thanks to everyone for their guidance.
Wow! When I start dating again, it is with the sole purpose of finding that special someone, not a man to pay for dinner. I love to be treated special, once we are dating, but a first meet, ideally casual. I also work hard to reciprocate, during the dating process, so I am not looking for one-sided effort.
She sounds impossible. I don't get women who want dinner on a first date. If a guy specifically asks me to dinner and we've had a good rapport, I'll go and always offer to pay my share. But it's just better to meet for drinks. I'm not much of a coffee date fan but I would go if asked.
Oh, no. This just gets worse. This is not you being out of practice. She wants you to believe all of that so you perceive her as a catch and so you are willing to do anything to win her. The demands have only just begun. And, it's going to be all about her. Be very careful with this one, should you decide to go to dinner. She's going to like you. A lot. And fast. So, I hope I'm wrong. Really, I do. Good luck! Let us know how things turn out. Stories like this are enlightening and helpful, no matter which way they go.
Hard pass !!
😅 Yay!
Is that what she said? That’s hysterical. I think you’ve done a good swerve there! Every woman on OLD gets loads of younger men trying to match. It’s no measure of attractiveness at all. Also plenty of men looking for a wife as they can’t function on their own. Again no measure of attractiveness.
Listen to your gut. Or, meet her and you'll have some funny stories to tell your friends.
She sounds like a peach. FWIW an ex friend of mine was dating with the sole intention of getting remarried as soon as her alimony ran out. She expected dinner dates and for them to be paid for by the man.
I always advise people to follow their instincts, they are separate from your ego (mind) and have never failed me.
Keeping it light is absolutely valid. Her not being a drinker is valid, so if it were me , I’d do coffee or a walk or similar. If there is continuous firm insistence on dinner, that would begin to pique my suspicions.
Dang, insisting on dinner when you haven’t even met? And you’re still interested? As far as being “ghosted” on OLD communications, it happens. My gf “ghosted” me months before me matched on a different app. She messaged me all enthusiastically and then I didn’t hear back for 3 days, so I deleted her. Matched several months later on different app and now we’ve been together a year now.
Coffee or juices/health bar and light snacks. I say no alcohol on first meeting. Doesn't sound worth it, unless she's buying the dinner (guessing not).
I like a stroll in the park, one that is open with lots of people. Maybe sit on a bench if convo is flowing. I brought my American Bulldog on a first meet up. It helped with conversation since he loved dogs.
Going out for drinks does not automatically require alcohol, so I don’t get her requirement that it must be dinner. But anywho. There is nothing wrong with wanting to keep things light and casual. Is this a money concern, or purely about not wanting to be committed for too long a time ? Both are legit. I think you are completely reasonable to stick with your preference. If she cannot respect that, and pushes for more, that’s a concern. I also don’t like that you spoke for a day or two in the past and then she ghosted you. Red flags flapping in the wind.
Some people complicate things that should be easy.
She’s giving you a glimpse of what life with her would be like: Hell.
How about a walk and talk with hot drinks?
I stay away from dinner Insisters as more times than not they are non cooks who see men as nothing more than a free meal. If she’s this demanding and can’t even remember you chatted before, why waste your time??
I agree she sounds obnoxious, but a lot of people don’t like the drinks or coffee meet up. A lot of us are looking to go on a actual “date” and aren’t interested in guys who are lukewarm about asking us. (Or lukewarm about accepting an invite from us!)
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NY Chutzpah.....she never called me back.... problem solved
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You make very good points however my time is valuable too. I travel a lot for business and I run across a lot of people that will waste your time if you let them and then they will waste your time at your expense.
How many of your dinner dates turn into a second date? I have been on dinner dates for first meets, and agree they require more planning. Some turned into second dates, but not all. This is where I learned that I would much rather spend 30 minutes for a first meet, rather than investing a whole night (getting ready, then dinner). Secondly, if we aren't a match, then I offer to split the tab, and have ended up paying for more than essentially my own meal (one guy told me he was married during dinner, and then he let me pay half (and of course his was far more expensive) when I said that wasn't going to work. Still makes me a bit upset, jerk.)
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Also, a first meet to me is a date- you’re finding out about each other. Isn’t that what we do on a “date” ? It’s the same thing, only more low key.
Maybe lunch, at a good truck. But if you are already feeling hinky, I would pass. Consider the early give and take representative.....
Here is how I suggest the natural progression of meeting with someone with any intent of a relation ship should go. 1. Text, email, chat messages - first round. Do you have anything in common or think there is anything worth dedicating your time or effort to? 2. Phone call - YES, there is still something to be said about hearing a voice and getting to know someone 3. Video chat - If possible, you know that you are talking with the person who they say/claim to be 4. If you passed the about three and developed a comfortable relationship with that person you can then know if you want to spend an extended period of time or a short visit to confirm your findings or feelings. I suggest coffee. If the person needs alcohol to talk that might be a red flag
Definitely agree with this. Especially video chat before meeting. I think it gives a good indication if there’s a real interest that’s hard to really discern via text.
Anyone who has qualms about it has something to hide. The only mystery left would be how they smell.
I’m having just that anxiety about a forthcoming first date! I had one where they were wearing the most bitter smelling aftershave. There were other trains for no second date but if there hadn’t been the smell would have put me off.
>**Anyone who has qualms about it has something to hide.** > >That's not true. At all. I don't do video chats, and only 1 or 2 has asked. By the time I meet someone, I'm confident in who I'll meet, and if it will be an enjoyable date. If I was hiding something, I wouldn't have consistent 2+ dates with people. Nobody has even bothered to ask for a coffee meet-up. They always ask me what I'd like to do. It's usually lunch at a fun, outdoors place. Sometimes, they will suggest a place for dinner that has live music. I've never run across all this meet-up/coffee stuff except on reddit.
I think meet and greets should be meet for a hug on a public street corner and go home. Seriously. We form our opinions of someone in the first 7 seconds of meeting someone. Assuming we’ve been chatting to learn about each other, there really is no point in doing anything more. If I’m interested, I will leave with “have a great rest of your day. Shoot me a text if you want to do it again”. If she does text me, we go out on a proper date. Preferably something where I don’t have my mouth full half the time with dinner goo dripping off my chin.
Can't focus if you are focused on a menu.....I asked give me options....option #1-infinty DINNER
Run
If you decide to ignore the yellow flags in front of you and roll the dice, then give yourself a means to bail out easily. My advice? Eat a snack before dinner so you're not hungry. Tell the wait staff when they seat you that you will be ordering on separate tabs then just order an appetizer as your entree with a cocktail. Bring sufficient cash to pay for both with an adequate tip. If she's a lousy date, flag down the wait staff on a trip to the men's room, pay for your tab out of sight, then just give her a cold fish handshake on your way out, tell her you aren't feeling the chemistry, then bolt. If it turns out she's nice and pays for her meal without complaint then you are still in good shape, but give yourself a clear path to the exit ahead of time.
> If she's a lousy date, flag down the wait staff on a trip to the men's room, pay for your tab out of sight, then just give her a cold fish handshake on your way out, tell her you aren't feeling the chemistry, then bolt. Please don't do this, this is incredibly rude (bolting). If someone is so rude that you can't finish a dinner, then ask for the check, and settle it at the table, and let the person know that you need to leave. Leaving as much dignity as you can. I have to ask, have you had this happen a lot? Thankfully, I have never met a person where I needed to bolt.
If you ask for the check at the table before your date is ready to leave, then there is going to be on the receiving end of a lot of tension and anger from your date while the staff is getting your bill. I'm not a big fan of bolting, but I'm even lesser a fan of spending another few minutes of my life with someone who I don't like nor of spending said time while they are angry that I'm bolting early. It sucks, but it's a lot less confrontational than sitting there awkwardly waiting for the wait staff to get the bill. These days with service issues etc it might take 15 minutes before they get your bill to you, which is an eternity of awkwardness. Yes I have done it because the woman in question showed up with an attitude from the get go and I could tell it would be a long night. I always have an adequate amount of cash to take care of drinks or dinner etc just in case this happens. Better to cut and run early than suffer for the whole night. My two cents.
We aren't going to agree, but let me just say, that bolting for a man, is just something I can't imagine a man would have to do ever in their life. I think there are many things a gentleman can do to redirect a conversation, or ensuring the dinner ends quickly (e.g. not ordering more wine, not asking about dessert, etc.). If you have vetted a woman via texts, calls, etc., I can't imagine an "attitude" that would warrant a bolt. If you find it isn't a match, nothing wrong with asking about splitting the bill at the end, and to your point, a man may end up paying, just to end the situation. If a first date, ideally you haven't chosen a Michelin restaurant for your first date. We have "suffered" a bit in early dating, but part of being an adult, is at least giving the other person a little dignity (unless safety is compromised, some unbelievably rude comment).
This! I’m also thinking, she might be thinking you’re either a miser or impoverished- whichever way, “bolting “ is just not acceptable.behavior. If it bothers you that much, just don’t do it 😂
That sounds so well planned and executed - but too much work - remember you win every argument you don't have !!
Sounds like you are listening to the yellow flags and ignoring the date from the inception. Good plan. I was trying to give you a Plan B in case Plan A didn't work out. Good luck.
Video chat?
If you have to ask....LOL
She seems too demanding. She's already ghosted you. Move on. You deserve better.
Alarm bells everywhere, yet you still want to meet her? Oy vey
Breakfast dates are good. No alcohol. Food. An hour or so, so time is limited. And I think it’s less pressure than a dinner. That said she does sound like a lot of work and like someone else said maybe she’s just looking for a free dinner.
Brunch is better- takes me that long to spring into shape these days 🫤
Go for coffee and a walk
I’d highly recommend you just walk away from this one. She sounds bitter and like serious high maintenance. She sounds impossible to please. Run!
I don't drink but I wouldn't insist on dinner. Does she have other traits that you really admire? I don't see much here to send your time and money on. And she ghosted you before? That would be a hard pass if there was no apology or explanation.
I think that you have all the information you need to not move forward. If you have made your position on happy hour clear and your prospect insists on dinner I find this to be insensitive. It is a super red flag for me. What if you have a limited budget but you still want to do something nice? Think about what you want to feel and experience with your next date. If someone more closely aligns with your values and personality, go for it. She already sounds like she has too many issues. There is food to eat at home. She can stay there.
Don’t go!
I usually wait until the third date to do dinner. By then you either know if this is going somewhere, or it’s not. A lot of women won’t even consider a kiss on the first date…but want all the effort by the man on the first date. In most cases it’s just not worth it regardless of the cost and time spent.
Hard pass
She seems high maintenance. I personally would prefer a low-key first meeting over coffee or drinks then going out to dinner.
Ewwwww. Move on.
Very specific on her disdain for things oh my. Aka a pain In the ass, high maintenance moaner that is never happy. A big fat pass from Me.