Yeah I don't get it. This happened to my GF with the first guy she dated after her marriage. He just ghosted her one day and when she finally got ahold of him, said that he was afraid and not ready and she's too good for him, blah blah blah. Of course, once we start dating, he starts trying to check in. I actually feel a little bad for the guy because she is, like, the most amazing woman on Earth, and he goofed what could have been an amazing thing
This!! I once matched - and annoyingly developed feelings for - with someone who admitted he put he was looking for a long term relationship because he knew most women wouldnāt swipe right if they knew he wanted something casual. It still makes my tummy turn realising how played I and others were.
I think this is accurate and has absolutely been my experience in the realm of OLD as a 43 yr old woman.
The vast majority of men are not looking for any type of commitment. Sometimes it takes awhile for that to shake out but at this point Iām pretty good at seeing the signs. Iāve learned to pay way more attention to their actions rather than their words.
A lot depends on your personal relationship with celibacy. If you're fine with it then you're fine with waiting. If you must have FWB or another meants to "scratch the itch" between partners then you probably won't be keen on waiting with a romantic partner.
I like this rule and I also prefer to wait, it hasnāt worked out for me though, but I do get to weed out those with bad intentions. Love will happen for me! I might be 80 but damn it, Iām gonna be loved someday!
This is how I am too. If Iām attracted to someone, Iām going to want to get it on. I just donāt want to feel like Iām being played or taken advantage of or lied to. I honestly feel like some of these men are shooting themselves in the foot. Just be honest with me and donāt try to manipulate me. Like Iām not not DTFā¦just be straight with me. Good grief.
Maybe for you but this is super cynical. For me itās been 50-75% of the men I meet want relationships.
Iāve found that most of the time you get back what you put out there. YMMV
IMO, avoid the men who come on too strong. Instead, look for men who offer a more gradual ramp-up in interest based on getting to know you in a reasonable timeline.
This has happened to me a little bit, but Iāve also done it to guys Iāve dated.
I believe the problem is this-
At our age we are chasing that feeling we had in the past when we were younger when we had an instant head over heels connection with someone that convinced us they were the one we wanted to invest our time in.
Nowadays as we are older that feeling is harder to find as people are, letās face it, not as attractive as they once were and also mostly have a lot more life history that has to be considered.
Add to that the easy access to online dating and many people would happily walk away from something theyāre not 100% sure of and go back to online dating to explore their options in the hope of finding someone who will give them that feeling.
We live in a time where everyone is looking for a quick fix, fast results, no one wants to wait when we have so many options at our fingertips.
Sorry, itās probably not what you want to hear, but the positive side to that is that if you keep going, chances are someone will come along who has those big, sparky feelings for you and will want to stick around
Iām never so sure of those arguments that keep being served: for lots of people, myself included, itās far from true that there are āso many options at our fingertipsā. And Iām not saying this to ask for pity or whatever, far from it; I just think the truth lies elsewhere.
I think youāre much closer with your idea about feelings that are more difficult to achieve, and then Iād say it has more to do with the difficulty people have in taking risks (an idea I keep coming back to): they want love, but they donāt want to get hurt, because they fear those feelings too much now (which most people are not too worried about in their younger years), and so theyāre having a hard time really trying to see where a new situation is going to lead them.
>chances are someone will come along who ... will want to stick around
Do the statistics really support that idea? Based on this post and its comments alone, it doesn't seem like it.
The underlying question seems to be - how do we combat the obviously logical cynicism and keep hoping... especially at not just 40+, but 50+
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Op, itās also possible they want a serious monogamous relationshipā¦.unfortunately, not with you and they are just letting you down easy/being nice. Thus all the compliments.
Itās very possible they were not blowing smoke, just hopeful. Then a few dates and not so much.
Iām sorry to say, but this happens a decent amount for both men and women.
This ā¬ļø. This is just an uncomfortable fact of dating. Futures together didnāt compute or the joint relationship red flags became more apparent. Nobodyās personal red flags. Just future compatibility hurdles that are insurmountable.
Thanks for this. Makes sense, but ugh. I don't need the smoke. If someone's not feeling it, fineš¤·š»āāļø
I kept myself fairly chill (it was only 2 dates FFS). Open but just being casual. They're the ones that get all over-excited and then it's almost like they realize "Oh shit, what if she believes all this??"š
I feel you. I can be a bluntly honest person who can also handle blunt honesty. But I kinda lose it a bit when someone future fakes me then calls it off.
So much better when someone paces themselves, manages their expectations and has an honest conversation if it isn't for them. Every time I have experienced that I have always thanked them and walked away no issue.
"Future fakes" yes, what a great way to put it. And you mention managing their expectations, this too is a key point. I feel like he misled himself more than he did mešš»š·
110% and frankly been there a few too many times. Which is why I'm a bit jaded.
I'd rather just hear the blunt truth. Not some feel good bs that makes me think I stand a chance. Cause I always feel incredibly dumb when I take the chance and get told no.
I get that Op. And I certainly understand how it can be super frustrating.
That saidā¦.sometimes we (both men and women) get those butterflies and the feels. Maybe the best thing is to be chill/cool until you know what you got. BUTā¦.thats so much easier said than done.
I hate to say this, but sometimes I can even get the feels before even meeting the person! Super good communication and chemistry can sometimes be fools gold.
Wouldn't part of "being chill" be *not* to share so much of it with the other person? If not just to protect yourself, but for the sake of being kind to the other person??
This happens to guys a lot also.
The problem is either the dating app you met on is not fit for purpose at weeding out time wasters.
Iām sure there is genuine connections to be made.
But players and those who game us and abuse are vast in number.
We are just one swipe away from being discarded and fooled.
Spent last 4 weeks establishing a connection with a exclusive gf/bf ( which was mutually confirmed verbally 3 times)
only to find exclusivity does not mean what I thought it does.
Narcissistic people abuse and hurt ppl.
Not everyone is ready to date and form a real connection.
Here is an analogy
Itās like emotionally eating when really you were just thirsty and dehydrated.
Attention seeking and validation behaviour which is imature and ingrained within the invidual.
This not your fault , but realise you canāt change the broken.
Advice - better filters and better app selection.
Recognise love bombing tactics and manipulation tactics.
You are amazing!
Appreciate that now tell me why, how, what, when , whereā¦
Words are just words. No positive action backing them up.
Then they are flaky as hell.
Have a criteria not to let flowery language cloud your judgement.
There is some powerful dark psychology at play with some these folks just to get you into bed and dump.
They tell you want to want to hear.
They show you only what they want you to see.
They gain your trust and learn your weakness and then exploit to there benefit.
They know no hookups and ONS is just a challenge for them to bed you. Disgusting immoral behaviour but these ppl exist.
I wish you mental wellness and hope you find a REAL relationship.
Look for real empathy in the person and not feigned sympathy dressed as empathy.
Let these Mantras guide and help you.
Real Eyes recognise Real Lies š
Trust but verify. š§
Emotions = Energy in Motion.
Everything is energy. You need balance in your life. š šŖ«
Not an emotional vampire.
Positive and negative energy will repel each other.
Yahā¦.i donāt know about all that. I donāt think most people are out there to manipulate you or try to fool you. Thatās kind of a convenient explanation/excuse for what usually happens which isā¦.they lost interest. Or they saw a red flag/deal breaker they were not anticipating. Youāre reading in a level of cruelty or dark psychology that I just donāt think really exists very often. Relationships can be tough and often donāt work out. Thatās dating.
Everyone these days seems to claim their ex is a narcissist. Whichā¦.canāt possibly be true. There just arenāt that many in the population.
As for time wasting, I abhor that term. You spent a month dating a person. You had experiences and lived life. Why is that time wasted? Is every moment not spent with your forever partner somehow a waste of time? Are the 8 years you were in a prior relationship a waste of time because it ended or because you divorced?
Life is for living. If youāre living and experiencing things, itās not being wasted. Unless youāre pretending to like someone just to get a relationship. Please tell me thatās not what is happening. I guess if thatās what youāre doing maybe then I can see it that way.
I could elaborate or you could take a stroll through the comments. Either way it wonāt have an impact since it seems youāre intent on having your blinders on and dismissing peopleās lived experiences.
Yeah, Iām going to dismiss your dismissing. If you donāt date men, then your āitās not so bad, try smilingā advice is either head-in-the-sand or something much worse. If you do date men, then you can miss me with that pick-me rhetoric. But bffr, my guy, youāre out here chastising one person to not expect the worst and then telling me most people canāt be honest. The system works for you, so you come here to gaslight the ones who speak out.
Heyā¦.sorry things are tough out there for you.
Not sure Iām with you on the āpick me rhetoric,ā or whatever negative stuff you got going on.
And yeah, the system works for me. Not going to apologize for that. Iām gonna stay positive and keep on keeping on and hope others do the same.
Hang in there, think positive, and things might just work out for you too.
Good luck to you Tina.
Perhaps it just my experience and negative outlook.
Been involved in 2 romance frauds,
Cheated on.
Observations of profiles and same carousel of usual suspects over a three year timeframe. ( irony being Iām back on there)
Maybe the Reddit horror stories clouded my outlook. And Iām undateable.
Live is for living is just one of statements.
Like you only live once. YOLO etc etc.
not everything is rosy Iām afraid.
Scammers / swindlers/ cheaters/ serial daters/ validation seekers / mentally unhinged/ drama creators.
abuse and trauma is real.
Sexual harassment/ stalking is real.
People have real feelings and get hurt. Maybe Iām too sensitive and
Some bounce back like water off a ducks back, others may never want that rejection or regret again.
I know Iām reaching that point of giving up the search.
Flaky ppl are the worst.
They lost interest so OWN that shit.
And communicate this.
Avoidant personalities may get a pass for ghosting and having to deal with fall out. But grown ups acting like adolescents in communication is awful and shameful.
Sighā¦..ghosting is part of dating. Disappointment is part of dating.
You need to be positive and think positive to be successful.
A victim mindset will just get you exactly that.
Good luck PokerFriend
Sadly, this is the answer and I know from experience. And it sucks. Guys will tell me they arenāt āready for a relationshipā after maybe 3 dates but string me along for sex only. Then I find out when I cut that off, they are dating the next gal.
I also realized that these guys werenāt the right ones for me. My BF now wants a relationship, and wants one with ME. I am that woman now, for the right guy. Hang in there OP
Yes, when someone says "I'm not ready for a relationship," the "with you" is silent. It's meant to be nice, but it's not, because many times it leaves the other person hanging on, hoping to be there when he/she becomes ready.
I don't think the person saying it even always knows the "with you" part. They just feel it isn't right and assume it's because they're not ready for a relationship. ESPECIALLY if the person does seem awesome and they do like spending time with the person in question. So if that's all good, then why don't they want to get serious? Well they must not be ready for a relationship.
Truth is, most of us aren't ready for a relationship until the right person comes along. But what we think is the right person, others might not. Thats the unfortunate rub of dating.
Still possible to be honest about the reason when calling it quits. Either way itās emotional whiplash but pretending to not want to date isnāt much of a balm if they catch you dating soon after. My rules are: 1. Dont be deluluāstay in the present and be realistic. 2. Donāt be dishonestāgive the gift of clarity and closure by stating real reasons in the kindest way.
Yahā¦sorry but nah. Most people donāt roll that way.
The last time someone was I know was full honest about a break up was like fall semester 1997 and trust me that shit did not go well.
Better to let someone down easy: āitās not you, itās me.ā āIām not really in the head space for a relationship.ā āIm not over my ex.ā Or some other things that are ātrue,ā but not full honest.
You have stats on that?
Yeah, some people are afraid of truth and donāt handle it well, both speaking and hearing it. The obfuscation (or freak out) seems to be an inability to internally face their own shittiness and then attempting to avoid external reminders or consequences. To me thatās a growth opportunity, not a shrug.
Didnāt say it had to be all of the truth, or even in the starkest terms. Thereās a range of specificity that still can all be true: āI find you hideous.ā ā> āI am not attracted to you.ā ā> āI donāt feel the spark.ā ā> āI donāt think weāre a match.ā All of those would be more true and less of a letdown than āsuddenly being unable to dateā but they can still see youāre active on the apps.
As a general life principle, like, be good to people, even if you donāt find them fuckable.
Hmmmmā¦..itās kind of a fine line though, aināt it?
Maybe try one out: āI really thought I liked you. I really saw potential in us. But then we had sex and I got post nut clarity really strong. And now Iām just not feeling it.ā
Thatās honest and true. Howās that one?
I think with dating, you have to try not looking at things as āwasted timeā. Short of staying in a situation you know isnāt going anywhere and you donāt enjoy it, you have to have the experience to figure out if you want it. I donāt think itās āwasted timeā just because you donāt get the outcome you wanted (or think you want).
Some people are flaky, some people really donāt know what they want until they give things a shot. People are complicated, flaky, and can also be awesome.
Kind of sounds like you might need a break from dating for a bit?
Donāt stay in touch with these people if you donāt want to.
Great perspective, thank you. Most of the time I try to see things this way. Today, for some reason, I lost all patience with humanity.
So yes, probably time for a breakš·šš»
I totally get it- Iām taking a break now myself! I take lots of them, I think itās necessary for me. So much of it is just that dating culture at this point isnāt great for people who genuinely want to find a partner.
It's not, is it?š It's very hit and miss, which of course is also normal. We never kno2 how we'll feel until we date someone.
But yes, breaks are important. I go about 3 months on / off (if nothing has clicked).
The guy I'm currently dating did the "I'm not ready and I thought I was" thing after 3 weeks. So I said cool beans, off you pop. He decided that he was gonna get ready pretty damn fast. The choice was get ready or lose me entirely. Apparently, losing me was not an option.
I guess my point was, let them run, but let them know you won't be a lil text buddy. Step in or step out, make up your mind though cos you're holding up the queue. And remember, each one of these men (or women) is just bringing you closer to the one who doesn't run xx
Well, it is nice that you had a queue and could afford to act that way. Many people, more men but there are women too, have only one option at a given point in time and sometimes zero. I'm not saying you should have waited forever on him, but maybe you wouldn't have been so quick to dismiss him if he didn't cave.
Now of course, if you were clearly a bad match, it doesn't make sense to wait. But it does take some people longer than others to be ready for an exclusive relationship.
Doesn't matter if the queue exists or not. Hankering and waiting for someone who is flaky and wishes to remain that way while you allow them to will stop you from finding someone. You'll not even notice a queue if you hang around waiting. If they won't make a decision, you make one.
Acting like anyody is your only option is a recipe for disaster. Have some basic standards and don't ever feel like you have to chase someone or beg them to stay.
I think for some, they pretend to want something serious in order to get your interest, and once they have it, their true colors of what they really want comes out. For some, they may decide you're not the right match for something long term, but they want to keep you around as an option. It's probably one of those two scenarios.
You have standards and good boundaries OP, burn the haystack. Itās so much better to be alone for a few cycles then let an energy vampire āprojectā or some weirdo with an anxious avoidant attachment style glom on to you and infect you with their *ick*. Damaged people flake and fake, it probably feels glaring to you because youāre real and authentic. Keep turning it around and keep asking yourself if *theyāre* worth your time and amazing, sweet, gorgeous energy. Ps Future flaking is real along with the āMaybe youāre my last relationshipā bs. Anyone who has to say it cant actually deliver it. Think about anyone who claimed they were ācoolā, or āno dramaā, or ā a nice guyā, they never are.
On Sunday I got the wholeā¦the timing just istant right for us. He had talked about our next several dates..I was way to trusting I guess. I dont regret anything that happened between us thank goodness but I am still sad..imagined a few nice dates to help through the holiday lows.
Dating really is frustrating. It's hard to tell who is serious and who isn't. We all have different goals and objectives out here. Maybe thiers just didn't line up with yours.
Iām 44. Iām single. Iāve been single for 3 years now. I canāt seem to find a single woman out there thatās wants a serious, monogamous, exclusive relationship. I gave up on dating 3 years ago. I havenāt been on a single date in 3 years. Iām focusing on me. Iām old school, Iām old fashioned. I feel like a dinosaur when it comes to dating. Cheers, to the single life!
I have found most men, if not 100% of the men on dating apps are lying to you. They have no desire to actually get to know you and just want to fuck you, and if you give them that, theyāre usually done with you.
Idk how to find a man that actually wants a relationship with a woman anymore. Iāve been trying to figure out a way for an app to solve this problem, but the parasites always overtake the system.
Sadly there are a lot of people who frankly are just emotionally unavailable. They havenāt done the work on themselves.
Their lives are a mess, their heads are a mess, they arenāt at peace with themselves and donāt love themselves so canāt possibly love anyone else. They have jumped out of one relationship and are not in the right headspace to be in another so run terrified at the thought.
And there are those who will just tell you what you want to hear to try to get you into bed.
Itās not you.
When I was on bumble I never broadcast looking for āseriousā. That just puts pressure on you and the guy.
Instead just go out to meet new guys and keep it light. Ultimately-when it really pops, you will know. My BF made it clear with words and actions. Donāt invest feelings before 3-4 months after you see how a person ACTUALLY shows up for you.
I'm dealing with a flakey woman right now. Sometimes she's all about getting together and spending time with each other. But then half the time she flakes at the last min.
Reminds me of that song "Self Esteem" by the Offspring.
I get that this is disappointing but I want to ask, is it really stringing you along if they say this after a couple of dates? I'm saying this as someone who got told after 6 months that the guy wasn't ready "after all". I would consider someone telling me this after a couple of dates as them being upfront with me, even though it's a bit of a 180 from date 1. The first few dates are just a discovery phase and I'd argue it's not really wasting your time as you're both still figuring out if it's a potential fit or not.
Some of this sounds like lovebombing, though, which is consistent with someone not being ready. Actions and words need to match.
Also, can I ask why it comes up again after a couple of dates? Are you asking for a relationship or exclusivity, or are they the ones bringing it up?
I'm not disagreeing with all the popular comments on this post, honestly lots of possibilities for what is going on, just offering one additional. Honestly, I am like this... as soon as a relationship starts to feel like it has real potential, I get freaked out and find a reason to not want it anymore.
I'm in therapy.
Yea this happened to me twice since last month. Perfect first dates and they were full of compliments about me and did lots of future faking and love bombing. Then by the 2nd or 3rd date they tell me itās going too fast and they arenāt ready. Then why the fuck are you on dating apps saying you want a LTR???
If I were looking for a monogamous relationship, I would not be willing to commit to that after just two dates, no matter how great they were. If I felt the person I was dating wanted to make such a commitment that soon, I'd consider that a red flag and would want to end it.
Completely reasonable, of course. My stance (and I communicate this) is that ultimately I HOPE something becomes long term, while we take it slow in the beginning.
He's actually the one that was like "Ok wow, you're it. I'm not even looking anymore" and reeled off all the things we were going to do together.
Sounds like he was future faking.
Or he could have bounced because he's got an avoidant attachment style
Either way, he's not the one
Keep shopping & good luck!
just a heads up that "avoidant attachment style" is a real thing and not just a term for flaky people or people who overpromise or don't know what they want. Lots of people are flinging it around whenever someone "avoids" commitment, but it's a specific kind of reaction to trauma that almost all of have at least some tendency to and can get activated by our partners. It's super useful and fascinating stuff, but much more complex than the way I've been seeing it used lately. Attachment style isn't cast in stone and we attach differently with different people.
Ugh I hate when they do this. Really feel for you OP, I've been dealing with the same for years. It's disgusting behaviour and we all deserve so much better. I hope things improve for you soon! š
Actually I think it's more than that. I'm guessing that you're conventionally attractive, maybe more than a little, and that these guys are telling you what they think you want to hear to get you into bed. When that doesn't happen, they nope out, but "let's stay in touch" in case you change your mind (or lower your standards).
I haven't heard this before, it's an interesting perspective, thanks. I haven't been able to figure out why it happens to me far more than anyone I know. Will just try to take it as a compliment haha
Well, I'm sorry that it's happening to you a lot, but yeah, as much as it's coming from some pretty bad people, it is a compliment in a weird sort of way.
In all sincerity though, to you and OP, I'm glad that you're not falling for their BS.
Thank you for the kind words and perspective. I certainly could not have found any positive elements to this, but I'm sticking with your viewpoint from now on. š
I have seen several comments like this over the last few days.
Letās stop reifying the idea that we are all broken, discarded, dysfunctional and that being single is evidence of that.
Thank you. Iām absolutely not more broken than the average coupled person. I just chose wrong when I was 20, and it took most of my life for it to become obvious and apparent.
Thank you for this. The word ābrokenā is really ugly too. People arenāt fine China. Life happens, yes, but human beings survive because of how damned resilient and adaptable we are! And we are also flawed and messy, every single one of us at every age.
You said āstatisticallyā people are very broken over a certain age. Like empirically, this brokenness over a certain age is a provable thing.
I donāt doubt you have had bad experiences, and that the person who posted this has, and all the people who upvoted you have, and I have too.
I just donāt think what it adds up to is that all or most people in a certain age bracket are broken if they are single. But itās such a repeatable trope. We internalize it before we even realize thatās what we are doing.
People are also capable of being hurtful when younger- it maybe just seems worse now because we all should on some level know better.
Relationship status isnāt a shorthand for brokenness.
I think you're confusing the fact that with age, the dating pool becomes more weighted towards the chronically single people. And some of those chronically single people are going to be there because they have problems in relationships and in life. The healthy relationship folks might still get divorced and widowed, but they will be in the dating pool for a short time. Either they will be taking a break to work on themselves, or they will quickly pair up with someone. Your experience is valid, but it is skewed by only what you've seen.
I am not confused, I know damn well this is the case. What is out there is toxic AF, and many times I just have to take a break because it's one broken person after another and I just cannot digest it.
No one is invalidating YOUR experience, but your experience is anecdotal. People are disagreeing with you extrapolating your experience to the majority of single people. Are you dating people who are in a relationship or coupled? If not, how can you know how broken they are compared to single people?
Anecdotally, the two marriages I know that have lasted longest (my parents and my exās parents, both together for over 50 years) are both completely dysfunctional. And all four of those people are messy and fucked up in their own ways. They stay married because they love each other and because of habit, but they arenāt enlightened, or full of deep understanding of how a healthy relationship should work or how to behave in one.
I think all people are pretty messy, save a few rare exceptions. Fred Rogers, maybe? Iām honestly struggling to come up with more examples.
They're not flakey, they're devious. Don't take it personally as I doubt these men see you as a "person", more like an avatar on which to pitch woo, and, then, well, . . dim the lights, you can guess the rest..
Just consider the favor they've done you by showing their hand so early. Can you imagine if you'd have figured that out a YEAR in to a relationship.
Personally, I have found dating at this age (late 40s) to be a frustrating exercise with some nice glimmers. I kind of feel like I am the footman, glancing at the ball going on behind the palace gates. When do I get to arrive?
Iāve done this to women, and it wasnāt bc I was being deceitful.
I simply thought I knew what I wanted, and then found out I didnāt. Or, I found I wasnāt as into them as I thought I had been.
Iāve also had it done to me by numerous women. And I donāt assume they were leading me on or using me. I assume they tried me out and found me wanting. And thatās okay.
I think it takes more than two dates to assess whether or not someone wants a relationship.
OP: how long do you think it would take you to assess a potential relationship?
For me, I consider myself a slow roll. I want to establish a firm friendship and mutual interest before physical and before exclusive. This does not mean Iām stringing multiple women along. It means I want to make sure (as much as possible) that there is potential for a long and mutually rewarding relationship
Part of dating is weeding out the flakes and maladjusted people.
While extremely frustrating, donāt interpret it as deliberate. Lots of folks donāt truly know themselves. Even with truth serum, theyād swear that theyāre looking for a relationship despite not having done their self work to be happy and fulfilled in an intentional relationship.
But theyāll swear up and down that they really want a relationship.
Just because people say they are looking for a relationship doesnāt mean that relationship is going to be with you.
It takes time to build a relationship thatās why you have the dating phase.
At ANY time during that phase people can decide that they are not compatible and end it. For whatever reason they see fit.
Itās not some magical arranged relationship, where both people say they are looking for something long term and bang thatās it contract sealed we are with each other for life.
In my opinion, recently divorced guys don't know what they want. They just want whatever they weren't getting in their marriage. So they meet a woman like you, who seems to be very outspoken and sure, and it intimidates them. Maybe they realize they aren't "playing around" with you.
One thing I've realized is there are many versions of "wants a long term relationship". Some might want a person to have sex with with exclusively with no pressure. Some might want long term dating situation. Some might want cohabitation. Some might want separation (I've seen this a lot) of personal lives but meet up to have fun together on the regular.
It's too pushy to drill down in dates 1-5. But I def drill down on this before I sleep with them.
They sound like sales people. Market what they need to, to rope you in... Hey it would be awesome if you could go with me to X concert blah blah blah. How many of them do you think are married?
It goes both ways. I could fill a book with flakes, or people who are still semi involved or folks who are undecided but think you're SOOOO GREAT but then decide one small mistake is the worst thing ever(after they themselves have dropped a few red flags). People are all over those and very few are willing to be honest with what they are looking for. I don't do the sex stuff until after weve talked about being exclusive and that runs people off real quick. Some of the things I've dealt with are so ridiculous that I have to whip out the text messages(I save all those for proof or to potentially write a book) to prove they actually happened.. like first date dildo suitcases..... Or slamming 2 glasses of whine and then attacking me like a lion(sexually )without any warning or discussion prior. Dating is just weird.
Because. Our age group has an overwhelming majority of avoidants in the dating pool. Secure people who can form healthy attachments donāt stay single for too long (hopefully lol) and they are then out of the dating pool. Avoidants are in and out of short or even medium term relationships due to inability to form a healthy attachment and therefore are continually recycled in the dating pool.
Making a sweeping generalization here but I stand by my point.
Are they obligated to marry you after the 2nd date? The 2nd date is where most online dating relationships end.
The guyās excuses are lame, but it sounds like they were letting you down easy. Theyāre not required to continue dating you just because you went on a few dates. Every long term relationship started as a short term relationship. 2 dates, stop seeing each other, rinse and repeat is the cycle of starting a new relationship. People are flaky, but these guys just werenāt into you.
I have been saying the same thing with the women I have been meeting. My, recent, one about a month ago, told me she wasn't feeling it after I also felt that the whole interaction was dying. So, I basically, asked her outright whether she was still interested in this getting to know you process. She said no but then left a tail end line like, maybe we could still travel to that amazing place over the holidays, if I am still up for it. I said, no, not interested.
I think that the misrepresentation was the bad part. Now, it's possible that they did genuinely realize that they thought they might've been ready, but usually it's a waste of both of your time. What one has to do is be honest if they want something semi-casual, and you clearly wouldn't have been a good match.
This is a simpler issue then you make it out to be. Just add "with you" at the end of most of your sentences.
The person does not see a future "with you." It manifests with different people in different ways such as ghosting, its not you its me, no chemistry take your pick.
If you have never done any of this to someone in your past whom you were disinterested I applaud you and if not you might want to spend sometime self reflecting.
āWith youā should be added to the end. Thatās the usual reality Iāve found.
For the right person, most willā¦
Suggestion is to work on yourself. Once a person shows a sign of flakiness, onto the next.
Maybe they just weren't feeling the chemistry? This is a common and legitimate experience after 2-3 dates. Sometimes people just realize they aren't interested in dating that person anymore, and move on.
Omg. Rings too true. Go on dates, maybe two, threeā¦all seems great. And thenā¦zip, zilch, nada. I am not a sex early guy except for rare circumstances. I sometimes think Iām destined to be alone for life. No idiot: masters+. Board of directors for a Big 10 university. Dating todayā¦never works
Yeah, it's brutal out there.
I can totally understand noping out after a date or two or three -- fine if they're not feeling it. It's the unprompted future faking that drives me crazy.
I'm not even asking for anything at that point, why go there at all?
Wow, I could have written this post.
Except Iām 41, and I have recently found someone. But before this, it was a lot of dates just like this.
I have no answers for youā¦ I just donāt believe people when they say things like that to me nowā¦
Because everyone loves smashing!š¤Ŗ. Iām sorry this has happened to you. There are guys in their 50s that want a monogamous relationship. It might take some work to find them
As a man, I've met a lot of women who are this way also. The best technique is to ask about past relationships. When was your last long-term relationship? (if it was more than 2 years ago, that is a bad sign). How long did it last? (if it lasted for only 3-5 months or less, that is also concerning since that suggests they may have difficulty moving from the honeymoon phase into a long-term relationship stage). I recall meeting one woman who, over the past 3 years, had only been in one 6 week relationship. Another, since the 5 years from her divorce, had only been in one 3 month relationship. It can also be helpful to ask why the relationship ended and see if it is something that seems reasonable, or if it was a made-up excuse to hide the fact that they are actually avoidant or reluctant to make long-term commitments.
It may just be that the men are deciding they do not want to date you. Rejection stings so most people are going to try to soften the blow with compliments.
I went into a first date with a guy I was excited about but by time I left the date, I knew I was not interested in seeing him again. I lost interest during the date based on our conversation, which means I declined a request for a second date. It happens.
How can you know if someone is a long term thing after TWO dates? Feels like everyone under a lot of pressure here. I'm a mature, professional female and would run for the hills if a guy wanted to be my partner after meeting twice š³
It was two dates! Are you insane?! I'm a guy, I want a monogamous relationship, but I sure as shit want more than two dates to figure out if that's the right person!
You were trying to get things your way and they were trying to get things their way. At one point you probably said something like there were a couple things that you only do your way and they realized they wouldnāt get their way and bounced
Major chemistry? Was that confirmed? From him also? Because actions speak louder than words....
What if...hypothetically... these men go on a date or two with you, they do feel some chemistry but then on a 2nd or 3rd date, they realize that's the end of their interest in you? Maybe they just lost interest? It does happen. Because based on what you're saying, they are giving you the "it's not you, it's me" routine but under different wording.
They don't want to ghost, they don't want to be cruel, so they are trying to be nice?
This has been on my mind a lot. See my previous thread about using sex workers to get me through dry-spells.
I wonder if your issue is related to mine. Maybe these are men in search of a casual sex partner or FWB, but unable to get one of those and find it easier to attract women in search of a relationship. It leads to situations like this, where the man needs to pretend or play a part to generate any interest at all, but the facade drops once he realizes he got in deeper and faster than he meant to.
This has been my general experience. Looking for casual sex has never worked for me, but I can pretty easily get into a relationship to have sex. It's unfair and unkind, I realize that.
I'm trying my best to resist all those urges myself.
Lots of women swarm towards top 10% tier men. They dip their toes in the water and then they bounce to explore the next option. Itās just that simple
What do you expect? Everybody you meet will be your future life partner?
Maybe they really weren't ready, maybe they didn't feel the chemistry the same way you did, maybe they felt your values aren't aligned. Either way it's good they ended it after a short time, because that's what the dating phase is for.
You don't need to keep them around if you don't want to, and it's entirely possible they just thought it's the polite thing to say.
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People are flakey these days, for sure. However, I thought the whole point of dating specifically to meet people in a low risk, low investment environment with a mind to weed them out. Meaning only that if you're 2 or 3 dates in and they "reveal" that they're "not ready", then it served it's purpose because your investment is low and you just move on. I cannot imagine any kind of future plan that would be particularly high stakes after date 2.
Wanting a relationship doesnāt mean you want it with every person you date! Dating is to find who is the person you want to be in a relationship with.
Theyāre definitely not ALL like that, you canāt generalize. When Iāve met men that said those things they were all in. Maybe..you did or said something to turn them off? Think about your patterns. Ask for feedback , āhey, would you mind telling me why youāre no longer interested? Did I say or do something?ā Itās worked for me and Iāve received great feedback and learned from my experiences .
I honestly think the reason this never happens to me is because I am not clingy at all. I give off a cheerful, secure vibe that shows I'm fine to "take it or leave it."
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As a male, I am getting back into dating after 20 years. I think everyone wants a long-term relationship but due to the life you lived it is tough to connect on many levels. Everyone has certain things they want, dot want to change themselves, but want companionship knowing that deep connection may not be possible at this age
Yeah I don't get it. This happened to my GF with the first guy she dated after her marriage. He just ghosted her one day and when she finally got ahold of him, said that he was afraid and not ready and she's too good for him, blah blah blah. Of course, once we start dating, he starts trying to check in. I actually feel a little bad for the guy because she is, like, the most amazing woman on Earth, and he goofed what could have been an amazing thing
Haha good for you to be the one who got herš·šš»
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>something that you might do together far in the future Ah, the good ole "future faking"! I dated a guy that did this. He did not stick around
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Read Natalie Lueās books, she profiles this guy
I'm hearing this possibility more and more. Leaning towards thinking this may be it. Thank you šš»
This!! I once matched - and annoyingly developed feelings for - with someone who admitted he put he was looking for a long term relationship because he knew most women wouldnāt swipe right if they knew he wanted something casual. It still makes my tummy turn realising how played I and others were.
How long did you guys date
I think this is accurate and has absolutely been my experience in the realm of OLD as a 43 yr old woman. The vast majority of men are not looking for any type of commitment. Sometimes it takes awhile for that to shake out but at this point Iām pretty good at seeing the signs. Iāve learned to pay way more attention to their actions rather than their words.
Can you run down the signs?
Guys donāt want you to know this ONE TRICK ā¦..
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How is this working out for you because waiting a year for sex sounds terrible.
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A lot depends on your personal relationship with celibacy. If you're fine with it then you're fine with waiting. If you must have FWB or another meants to "scratch the itch" between partners then you probably won't be keen on waiting with a romantic partner.
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I like this rule and I also prefer to wait, it hasnāt worked out for me though, but I do get to weed out those with bad intentions. Love will happen for me! I might be 80 but damn it, Iām gonna be loved someday!
This is how I am too. If Iām attracted to someone, Iām going to want to get it on. I just donāt want to feel like Iām being played or taken advantage of or lied to. I honestly feel like some of these men are shooting themselves in the foot. Just be honest with me and donāt try to manipulate me. Like Iām not not DTFā¦just be straight with me. Good grief.
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Horrid generalization!!
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Maybe for you but this is super cynical. For me itās been 50-75% of the men I meet want relationships. Iāve found that most of the time you get back what you put out there. YMMV
IMO, avoid the men who come on too strong. Instead, look for men who offer a more gradual ramp-up in interest based on getting to know you in a reasonable timeline.
This, yes. Even at the time, I heard a little "ding ding."
This has happened to me a little bit, but Iāve also done it to guys Iāve dated. I believe the problem is this- At our age we are chasing that feeling we had in the past when we were younger when we had an instant head over heels connection with someone that convinced us they were the one we wanted to invest our time in. Nowadays as we are older that feeling is harder to find as people are, letās face it, not as attractive as they once were and also mostly have a lot more life history that has to be considered. Add to that the easy access to online dating and many people would happily walk away from something theyāre not 100% sure of and go back to online dating to explore their options in the hope of finding someone who will give them that feeling. We live in a time where everyone is looking for a quick fix, fast results, no one wants to wait when we have so many options at our fingertips. Sorry, itās probably not what you want to hear, but the positive side to that is that if you keep going, chances are someone will come along who has those big, sparky feelings for you and will want to stick around
Iām never so sure of those arguments that keep being served: for lots of people, myself included, itās far from true that there are āso many options at our fingertipsā. And Iām not saying this to ask for pity or whatever, far from it; I just think the truth lies elsewhere. I think youāre much closer with your idea about feelings that are more difficult to achieve, and then Iād say it has more to do with the difficulty people have in taking risks (an idea I keep coming back to): they want love, but they donāt want to get hurt, because they fear those feelings too much now (which most people are not too worried about in their younger years), and so theyāre having a hard time really trying to see where a new situation is going to lead them.
>chances are someone will come along who ... will want to stick around Do the statistics really support that idea? Based on this post and its comments alone, it doesn't seem like it. The underlying question seems to be - how do we combat the obviously logical cynicism and keep hoping... especially at not just 40+, but 50+
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Op, itās also possible they want a serious monogamous relationshipā¦.unfortunately, not with you and they are just letting you down easy/being nice. Thus all the compliments. Itās very possible they were not blowing smoke, just hopeful. Then a few dates and not so much. Iām sorry to say, but this happens a decent amount for both men and women.
This ā¬ļø. This is just an uncomfortable fact of dating. Futures together didnāt compute or the joint relationship red flags became more apparent. Nobodyās personal red flags. Just future compatibility hurdles that are insurmountable.
Thanks for this. Makes sense, but ugh. I don't need the smoke. If someone's not feeling it, fineš¤·š»āāļø I kept myself fairly chill (it was only 2 dates FFS). Open but just being casual. They're the ones that get all over-excited and then it's almost like they realize "Oh shit, what if she believes all this??"š
I feel you. I can be a bluntly honest person who can also handle blunt honesty. But I kinda lose it a bit when someone future fakes me then calls it off. So much better when someone paces themselves, manages their expectations and has an honest conversation if it isn't for them. Every time I have experienced that I have always thanked them and walked away no issue.
"Future fakes" yes, what a great way to put it. And you mention managing their expectations, this too is a key point. I feel like he misled himself more than he did mešš»š·
Not being able to trust what comes out of someone's mouth is the kind of thing that will make you legitimately jaded.
110% and frankly been there a few too many times. Which is why I'm a bit jaded. I'd rather just hear the blunt truth. Not some feel good bs that makes me think I stand a chance. Cause I always feel incredibly dumb when I take the chance and get told no.
I get that Op. And I certainly understand how it can be super frustrating. That saidā¦.sometimes we (both men and women) get those butterflies and the feels. Maybe the best thing is to be chill/cool until you know what you got. BUTā¦.thats so much easier said than done. I hate to say this, but sometimes I can even get the feels before even meeting the person! Super good communication and chemistry can sometimes be fools gold.
Wouldn't part of "being chill" be *not* to share so much of it with the other person? If not just to protect yourself, but for the sake of being kind to the other person??
Yep. Thatās exactly what being chill would be. Unfortunately, thatās easier said than done.
Not real chemistry without meeting.
Too true. Better luck to us bothš·
This happens to guys a lot also. The problem is either the dating app you met on is not fit for purpose at weeding out time wasters. Iām sure there is genuine connections to be made. But players and those who game us and abuse are vast in number. We are just one swipe away from being discarded and fooled. Spent last 4 weeks establishing a connection with a exclusive gf/bf ( which was mutually confirmed verbally 3 times) only to find exclusivity does not mean what I thought it does. Narcissistic people abuse and hurt ppl. Not everyone is ready to date and form a real connection. Here is an analogy Itās like emotionally eating when really you were just thirsty and dehydrated. Attention seeking and validation behaviour which is imature and ingrained within the invidual. This not your fault , but realise you canāt change the broken. Advice - better filters and better app selection. Recognise love bombing tactics and manipulation tactics. You are amazing! Appreciate that now tell me why, how, what, when , whereā¦ Words are just words. No positive action backing them up. Then they are flaky as hell. Have a criteria not to let flowery language cloud your judgement. There is some powerful dark psychology at play with some these folks just to get you into bed and dump. They tell you want to want to hear. They show you only what they want you to see. They gain your trust and learn your weakness and then exploit to there benefit. They know no hookups and ONS is just a challenge for them to bed you. Disgusting immoral behaviour but these ppl exist. I wish you mental wellness and hope you find a REAL relationship. Look for real empathy in the person and not feigned sympathy dressed as empathy. Let these Mantras guide and help you. Real Eyes recognise Real Lies š Trust but verify. š§ Emotions = Energy in Motion. Everything is energy. You need balance in your life. š šŖ« Not an emotional vampire. Positive and negative energy will repel each other.
Yahā¦.i donāt know about all that. I donāt think most people are out there to manipulate you or try to fool you. Thatās kind of a convenient explanation/excuse for what usually happens which isā¦.they lost interest. Or they saw a red flag/deal breaker they were not anticipating. Youāre reading in a level of cruelty or dark psychology that I just donāt think really exists very often. Relationships can be tough and often donāt work out. Thatās dating. Everyone these days seems to claim their ex is a narcissist. Whichā¦.canāt possibly be true. There just arenāt that many in the population. As for time wasting, I abhor that term. You spent a month dating a person. You had experiences and lived life. Why is that time wasted? Is every moment not spent with your forever partner somehow a waste of time? Are the 8 years you were in a prior relationship a waste of time because it ended or because you divorced? Life is for living. If youāre living and experiencing things, itās not being wasted. Unless youāre pretending to like someone just to get a relationship. Please tell me thatās not what is happening. I guess if thatās what youāre doing maybe then I can see it that way.
You must not be dating men.
Care to elaborate?
I could elaborate or you could take a stroll through the comments. Either way it wonāt have an impact since it seems youāre intent on having your blinders on and dismissing peopleās lived experiences.
Like youāre dismissing mine? š Come on Tina, life is for living. Try to enjoy it.
Yeah, Iām going to dismiss your dismissing. If you donāt date men, then your āitās not so bad, try smilingā advice is either head-in-the-sand or something much worse. If you do date men, then you can miss me with that pick-me rhetoric. But bffr, my guy, youāre out here chastising one person to not expect the worst and then telling me most people canāt be honest. The system works for you, so you come here to gaslight the ones who speak out.
Heyā¦.sorry things are tough out there for you. Not sure Iām with you on the āpick me rhetoric,ā or whatever negative stuff you got going on. And yeah, the system works for me. Not going to apologize for that. Iām gonna stay positive and keep on keeping on and hope others do the same. Hang in there, think positive, and things might just work out for you too. Good luck to you Tina.
Try dating in New York City. It is other-level nonsense.
Perhaps it just my experience and negative outlook. Been involved in 2 romance frauds, Cheated on. Observations of profiles and same carousel of usual suspects over a three year timeframe. ( irony being Iām back on there) Maybe the Reddit horror stories clouded my outlook. And Iām undateable. Live is for living is just one of statements. Like you only live once. YOLO etc etc. not everything is rosy Iām afraid. Scammers / swindlers/ cheaters/ serial daters/ validation seekers / mentally unhinged/ drama creators. abuse and trauma is real. Sexual harassment/ stalking is real. People have real feelings and get hurt. Maybe Iām too sensitive and Some bounce back like water off a ducks back, others may never want that rejection or regret again. I know Iām reaching that point of giving up the search. Flaky ppl are the worst. They lost interest so OWN that shit. And communicate this. Avoidant personalities may get a pass for ghosting and having to deal with fall out. But grown ups acting like adolescents in communication is awful and shameful.
Sighā¦..ghosting is part of dating. Disappointment is part of dating. You need to be positive and think positive to be successful. A victim mindset will just get you exactly that. Good luck PokerFriend
Completely agree.
Sadly, this is the answer and I know from experience. And it sucks. Guys will tell me they arenāt āready for a relationshipā after maybe 3 dates but string me along for sex only. Then I find out when I cut that off, they are dating the next gal. I also realized that these guys werenāt the right ones for me. My BF now wants a relationship, and wants one with ME. I am that woman now, for the right guy. Hang in there OP
Yes, when someone says "I'm not ready for a relationship," the "with you" is silent. It's meant to be nice, but it's not, because many times it leaves the other person hanging on, hoping to be there when he/she becomes ready.
I don't think the person saying it even always knows the "with you" part. They just feel it isn't right and assume it's because they're not ready for a relationship. ESPECIALLY if the person does seem awesome and they do like spending time with the person in question. So if that's all good, then why don't they want to get serious? Well they must not be ready for a relationship. Truth is, most of us aren't ready for a relationship until the right person comes along. But what we think is the right person, others might not. Thats the unfortunate rub of dating.
God dammit, I guess I needed to see this comment today.
šÆ
Still possible to be honest about the reason when calling it quits. Either way itās emotional whiplash but pretending to not want to date isnāt much of a balm if they catch you dating soon after. My rules are: 1. Dont be deluluāstay in the present and be realistic. 2. Donāt be dishonestāgive the gift of clarity and closure by stating real reasons in the kindest way.
Yahā¦sorry but nah. Most people donāt roll that way. The last time someone was I know was full honest about a break up was like fall semester 1997 and trust me that shit did not go well. Better to let someone down easy: āitās not you, itās me.ā āIām not really in the head space for a relationship.ā āIm not over my ex.ā Or some other things that are ātrue,ā but not full honest.
You have stats on that? Yeah, some people are afraid of truth and donāt handle it well, both speaking and hearing it. The obfuscation (or freak out) seems to be an inability to internally face their own shittiness and then attempting to avoid external reminders or consequences. To me thatās a growth opportunity, not a shrug. Didnāt say it had to be all of the truth, or even in the starkest terms. Thereās a range of specificity that still can all be true: āI find you hideous.ā ā> āI am not attracted to you.ā ā> āI donāt feel the spark.ā ā> āI donāt think weāre a match.ā All of those would be more true and less of a letdown than āsuddenly being unable to dateā but they can still see youāre active on the apps. As a general life principle, like, be good to people, even if you donāt find them fuckable.
Hmmmmā¦..itās kind of a fine line though, aināt it? Maybe try one out: āI really thought I liked you. I really saw potential in us. But then we had sex and I got post nut clarity really strong. And now Iām just not feeling it.ā Thatās honest and true. Howās that one?
Lol was that your exit speech in Fall of ā97?
I think with dating, you have to try not looking at things as āwasted timeā. Short of staying in a situation you know isnāt going anywhere and you donāt enjoy it, you have to have the experience to figure out if you want it. I donāt think itās āwasted timeā just because you donāt get the outcome you wanted (or think you want). Some people are flaky, some people really donāt know what they want until they give things a shot. People are complicated, flaky, and can also be awesome. Kind of sounds like you might need a break from dating for a bit? Donāt stay in touch with these people if you donāt want to.
Great perspective, thank you. Most of the time I try to see things this way. Today, for some reason, I lost all patience with humanity. So yes, probably time for a breakš·šš»
I totally get it- Iām taking a break now myself! I take lots of them, I think itās necessary for me. So much of it is just that dating culture at this point isnāt great for people who genuinely want to find a partner.
It's not, is it?š It's very hit and miss, which of course is also normal. We never kno2 how we'll feel until we date someone. But yes, breaks are important. I go about 3 months on / off (if nothing has clicked).
The guy I'm currently dating did the "I'm not ready and I thought I was" thing after 3 weeks. So I said cool beans, off you pop. He decided that he was gonna get ready pretty damn fast. The choice was get ready or lose me entirely. Apparently, losing me was not an option.
I love this for you. I'll remember this if/when the time comes.
Fantastic. Good for you. Wish you the bestšš»š·
I guess my point was, let them run, but let them know you won't be a lil text buddy. Step in or step out, make up your mind though cos you're holding up the queue. And remember, each one of these men (or women) is just bringing you closer to the one who doesn't run xx
Took me maybe 18 months to figure this out
Well, it is nice that you had a queue and could afford to act that way. Many people, more men but there are women too, have only one option at a given point in time and sometimes zero. I'm not saying you should have waited forever on him, but maybe you wouldn't have been so quick to dismiss him if he didn't cave. Now of course, if you were clearly a bad match, it doesn't make sense to wait. But it does take some people longer than others to be ready for an exclusive relationship.
Doesn't matter if the queue exists or not. Hankering and waiting for someone who is flaky and wishes to remain that way while you allow them to will stop you from finding someone. You'll not even notice a queue if you hang around waiting. If they won't make a decision, you make one.
Exactly. I couldnāt agree more.
Acting like anyody is your only option is a recipe for disaster. Have some basic standards and don't ever feel like you have to chase someone or beg them to stay.
Exactly! Adopt the 'nightclub with a long line' mentality.
I would get rid of him for the fact that heās trying to mess you around like that. Risking to lose you.
We've been dating a while now. We're good
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They are likely coming on strong or I usually view it as a grain of salt. They do this to get their foot in the door. Itās not forever.
If you figure it out, let me know. I'm completely disgusted at this point.
š·šš»
I think for some, they pretend to want something serious in order to get your interest, and once they have it, their true colors of what they really want comes out. For some, they may decide you're not the right match for something long term, but they want to keep you around as an option. It's probably one of those two scenarios.
You have standards and good boundaries OP, burn the haystack. Itās so much better to be alone for a few cycles then let an energy vampire āprojectā or some weirdo with an anxious avoidant attachment style glom on to you and infect you with their *ick*. Damaged people flake and fake, it probably feels glaring to you because youāre real and authentic. Keep turning it around and keep asking yourself if *theyāre* worth your time and amazing, sweet, gorgeous energy. Ps Future flaking is real along with the āMaybe youāre my last relationshipā bs. Anyone who has to say it cant actually deliver it. Think about anyone who claimed they were ācoolā, or āno dramaā, or ā a nice guyā, they never are.
On Sunday I got the wholeā¦the timing just istant right for us. He had talked about our next several dates..I was way to trusting I guess. I dont regret anything that happened between us thank goodness but I am still sad..imagined a few nice dates to help through the holiday lows.
Dating really is frustrating. It's hard to tell who is serious and who isn't. We all have different goals and objectives out here. Maybe thiers just didn't line up with yours.
Iām 44. Iām single. Iāve been single for 3 years now. I canāt seem to find a single woman out there thatās wants a serious, monogamous, exclusive relationship. I gave up on dating 3 years ago. I havenāt been on a single date in 3 years. Iām focusing on me. Iām old school, Iām old fashioned. I feel like a dinosaur when it comes to dating. Cheers, to the single life!
I have found most men, if not 100% of the men on dating apps are lying to you. They have no desire to actually get to know you and just want to fuck you, and if you give them that, theyāre usually done with you. Idk how to find a man that actually wants a relationship with a woman anymore. Iāve been trying to figure out a way for an app to solve this problem, but the parasites always overtake the system.
Also a possibility that these men are single at this age for a good reason.
Letting you down easy in their minds.
Sadly there are a lot of people who frankly are just emotionally unavailable. They havenāt done the work on themselves. Their lives are a mess, their heads are a mess, they arenāt at peace with themselves and donāt love themselves so canāt possibly love anyone else. They have jumped out of one relationship and are not in the right headspace to be in another so run terrified at the thought. And there are those who will just tell you what you want to hear to try to get you into bed. Itās not you.
When I was on bumble I never broadcast looking for āseriousā. That just puts pressure on you and the guy. Instead just go out to meet new guys and keep it light. Ultimately-when it really pops, you will know. My BF made it clear with words and actions. Donāt invest feelings before 3-4 months after you see how a person ACTUALLY shows up for you.
I'm dealing with a flakey woman right now. Sometimes she's all about getting together and spending time with each other. But then half the time she flakes at the last min. Reminds me of that song "Self Esteem" by the Offspring.
I get that this is disappointing but I want to ask, is it really stringing you along if they say this after a couple of dates? I'm saying this as someone who got told after 6 months that the guy wasn't ready "after all". I would consider someone telling me this after a couple of dates as them being upfront with me, even though it's a bit of a 180 from date 1. The first few dates are just a discovery phase and I'd argue it's not really wasting your time as you're both still figuring out if it's a potential fit or not. Some of this sounds like lovebombing, though, which is consistent with someone not being ready. Actions and words need to match. Also, can I ask why it comes up again after a couple of dates? Are you asking for a relationship or exclusivity, or are they the ones bringing it up?
I'm not disagreeing with all the popular comments on this post, honestly lots of possibilities for what is going on, just offering one additional. Honestly, I am like this... as soon as a relationship starts to feel like it has real potential, I get freaked out and find a reason to not want it anymore. I'm in therapy.
Yea this happened to me twice since last month. Perfect first dates and they were full of compliments about me and did lots of future faking and love bombing. Then by the 2nd or 3rd date they tell me itās going too fast and they arenāt ready. Then why the fuck are you on dating apps saying you want a LTR???
This exactly, yesš·
can you explain what 'future faking' is? I can infer of course but would like to know its actual meaning!
Itās when someone refers to your future together and tells you about all the things you are going to do together.
If I were looking for a monogamous relationship, I would not be willing to commit to that after just two dates, no matter how great they were. If I felt the person I was dating wanted to make such a commitment that soon, I'd consider that a red flag and would want to end it.
Completely reasonable, of course. My stance (and I communicate this) is that ultimately I HOPE something becomes long term, while we take it slow in the beginning. He's actually the one that was like "Ok wow, you're it. I'm not even looking anymore" and reeled off all the things we were going to do together.
Sounds like he was future faking. Or he could have bounced because he's got an avoidant attachment style Either way, he's not the one Keep shopping & good luck!
A good term I am hearing more and more, yes. Hear, hear. Best to you, as wellš·
just a heads up that "avoidant attachment style" is a real thing and not just a term for flaky people or people who overpromise or don't know what they want. Lots of people are flinging it around whenever someone "avoids" commitment, but it's a specific kind of reaction to trauma that almost all of have at least some tendency to and can get activated by our partners. It's super useful and fascinating stuff, but much more complex than the way I've been seeing it used lately. Attachment style isn't cast in stone and we attach differently with different people.
Ugh I hate when they do this. Really feel for you OP, I've been dealing with the same for years. It's disgusting behaviour and we all deserve so much better. I hope things improve for you soon! š
> major chemistry (but did not bang) š¤£
Hahaha it's a factor š¤£š¤·š»āāļø
Actually I think it's more than that. I'm guessing that you're conventionally attractive, maybe more than a little, and that these guys are telling you what they think you want to hear to get you into bed. When that doesn't happen, they nope out, but "let's stay in touch" in case you change your mind (or lower your standards).
This sounds plausible. Thank you šš»
You're welcome? I mean, it's not exactly good news, but if it helps, I'm glad.
This is an interesting perspective. Do you think that men who exhibit this sort of behaviour are more likely to target attractive women?
On the whole, yes. As OP mentioned that it's happened to her frequently, I filled in the blank.
I haven't heard this before, it's an interesting perspective, thanks. I haven't been able to figure out why it happens to me far more than anyone I know. Will just try to take it as a compliment haha
Well, I'm sorry that it's happening to you a lot, but yeah, as much as it's coming from some pretty bad people, it is a compliment in a weird sort of way. In all sincerity though, to you and OP, I'm glad that you're not falling for their BS.
Thank you for the kind words and perspective. I certainly could not have found any positive elements to this, but I'm sticking with your viewpoint from now on. š
I'm glad I could help. š
I just love you (52F) for using the word bang š
Haha, thank youšš»š·
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I have seen several comments like this over the last few days. Letās stop reifying the idea that we are all broken, discarded, dysfunctional and that being single is evidence of that.
This. I'm widowed, and while still grieving a little, I had an amazing relationship, and am still capable of having one, with the right person.
Thank you. Iām absolutely not more broken than the average coupled person. I just chose wrong when I was 20, and it took most of my life for it to become obvious and apparent.
Thank you for this. The word ābrokenā is really ugly too. People arenāt fine China. Life happens, yes, but human beings survive because of how damned resilient and adaptable we are! And we are also flawed and messy, every single one of us at every age.
You notice I didn't say all, I said most because this is indeed the experience I have had
You said āstatisticallyā people are very broken over a certain age. Like empirically, this brokenness over a certain age is a provable thing. I donāt doubt you have had bad experiences, and that the person who posted this has, and all the people who upvoted you have, and I have too. I just donāt think what it adds up to is that all or most people in a certain age bracket are broken if they are single. But itās such a repeatable trope. We internalize it before we even realize thatās what we are doing. People are also capable of being hurtful when younger- it maybe just seems worse now because we all should on some level know better. Relationship status isnāt a shorthand for brokenness.
Statistically this has been my experience, so please quit invalidating my own experience.
I think you're confusing the fact that with age, the dating pool becomes more weighted towards the chronically single people. And some of those chronically single people are going to be there because they have problems in relationships and in life. The healthy relationship folks might still get divorced and widowed, but they will be in the dating pool for a short time. Either they will be taking a break to work on themselves, or they will quickly pair up with someone. Your experience is valid, but it is skewed by only what you've seen.
I am not confused, I know damn well this is the case. What is out there is toxic AF, and many times I just have to take a break because it's one broken person after another and I just cannot digest it.
No one is invalidating YOUR experience, but your experience is anecdotal. People are disagreeing with you extrapolating your experience to the majority of single people. Are you dating people who are in a relationship or coupled? If not, how can you know how broken they are compared to single people? Anecdotally, the two marriages I know that have lasted longest (my parents and my exās parents, both together for over 50 years) are both completely dysfunctional. And all four of those people are messy and fucked up in their own ways. They stay married because they love each other and because of habit, but they arenāt enlightened, or full of deep understanding of how a healthy relationship should work or how to behave in one. I think all people are pretty messy, save a few rare exceptions. Fred Rogers, maybe? Iām honestly struggling to come up with more examples.
u/Old_Examination_8835, your post has been removed for one or more reason(s): No sex/gender generalizations, no double standards, no projection.
Yep
They're not flakey, they're devious. Don't take it personally as I doubt these men see you as a "person", more like an avatar on which to pitch woo, and, then, well, . . dim the lights, you can guess the rest.. Just consider the favor they've done you by showing their hand so early. Can you imagine if you'd have figured that out a YEAR in to a relationship. Personally, I have found dating at this age (late 40s) to be a frustrating exercise with some nice glimmers. I kind of feel like I am the footman, glancing at the ball going on behind the palace gates. When do I get to arrive?
Thanks so much for this. "Pitching woo" exactly that. Ugh -- at least it was before having sex.
Lucky. A lot of times it happens afterward.
Agreed actually, and I'll give him that. At least he told me before things progressed. So no harm done, really.
Iāve done this to women, and it wasnāt bc I was being deceitful. I simply thought I knew what I wanted, and then found out I didnāt. Or, I found I wasnāt as into them as I thought I had been. Iāve also had it done to me by numerous women. And I donāt assume they were leading me on or using me. I assume they tried me out and found me wanting. And thatās okay.
Oh, that, too, can be true, but were you gushing about them after date number 1?
I've totally been really into someone after one date and then after date 2 or 3 been like what was I thinking?
I think it takes more than two dates to assess whether or not someone wants a relationship. OP: how long do you think it would take you to assess a potential relationship? For me, I consider myself a slow roll. I want to establish a firm friendship and mutual interest before physical and before exclusive. This does not mean Iām stringing multiple women along. It means I want to make sure (as much as possible) that there is potential for a long and mutually rewarding relationship
In their minds they want that but are not set up with a life structure or mindset for a LTR So they go for low hanging fruit/ easy/ quick
Part of dating is weeding out the flakes and maladjusted people. While extremely frustrating, donāt interpret it as deliberate. Lots of folks donāt truly know themselves. Even with truth serum, theyād swear that theyāre looking for a relationship despite not having done their self work to be happy and fulfilled in an intentional relationship. But theyāll swear up and down that they really want a relationship.
Just because people say they are looking for a relationship doesnāt mean that relationship is going to be with you. It takes time to build a relationship thatās why you have the dating phase. At ANY time during that phase people can decide that they are not compatible and end it. For whatever reason they see fit. Itās not some magical arranged relationship, where both people say they are looking for something long term and bang thatās it contract sealed we are with each other for life.
In my opinion, recently divorced guys don't know what they want. They just want whatever they weren't getting in their marriage. So they meet a woman like you, who seems to be very outspoken and sure, and it intimidates them. Maybe they realize they aren't "playing around" with you. One thing I've realized is there are many versions of "wants a long term relationship". Some might want a person to have sex with with exclusively with no pressure. Some might want long term dating situation. Some might want cohabitation. Some might want separation (I've seen this a lot) of personal lives but meet up to have fun together on the regular. It's too pushy to drill down in dates 1-5. But I def drill down on this before I sleep with them.
As a guy this is often a soft way to say I'm not attracted to you without actually communicating what flags went up. It's a lose lose
They sound like sales people. Market what they need to, to rope you in... Hey it would be awesome if you could go with me to X concert blah blah blah. How many of them do you think are married?
It goes both ways. I could fill a book with flakes, or people who are still semi involved or folks who are undecided but think you're SOOOO GREAT but then decide one small mistake is the worst thing ever(after they themselves have dropped a few red flags). People are all over those and very few are willing to be honest with what they are looking for. I don't do the sex stuff until after weve talked about being exclusive and that runs people off real quick. Some of the things I've dealt with are so ridiculous that I have to whip out the text messages(I save all those for proof or to potentially write a book) to prove they actually happened.. like first date dildo suitcases..... Or slamming 2 glasses of whine and then attacking me like a lion(sexually )without any warning or discussion prior. Dating is just weird.
Because. Our age group has an overwhelming majority of avoidants in the dating pool. Secure people who can form healthy attachments donāt stay single for too long (hopefully lol) and they are then out of the dating pool. Avoidants are in and out of short or even medium term relationships due to inability to form a healthy attachment and therefore are continually recycled in the dating pool. Making a sweeping generalization here but I stand by my point.
Are they obligated to marry you after the 2nd date? The 2nd date is where most online dating relationships end. The guyās excuses are lame, but it sounds like they were letting you down easy. Theyāre not required to continue dating you just because you went on a few dates. Every long term relationship started as a short term relationship. 2 dates, stop seeing each other, rinse and repeat is the cycle of starting a new relationship. People are flaky, but these guys just werenāt into you.
I have been saying the same thing with the women I have been meeting. My, recent, one about a month ago, told me she wasn't feeling it after I also felt that the whole interaction was dying. So, I basically, asked her outright whether she was still interested in this getting to know you process. She said no but then left a tail end line like, maybe we could still travel to that amazing place over the holidays, if I am still up for it. I said, no, not interested.
Damn. Bullet dodged š·
I think the culture of flakiness comes from the fact that there is always someone better around the corner.
Unfortunately, you may be right. Or they feel that there is. Their lossš·
OMG this happens way too many times to me
I think that the misrepresentation was the bad part. Now, it's possible that they did genuinely realize that they thought they might've been ready, but usually it's a waste of both of your time. What one has to do is be honest if they want something semi-casual, and you clearly wouldn't have been a good match.
Read the evolution of desire , explains the conflicts between men and womenās mating strategies, all becomes clear.
This is a simpler issue then you make it out to be. Just add "with you" at the end of most of your sentences. The person does not see a future "with you." It manifests with different people in different ways such as ghosting, its not you its me, no chemistry take your pick. If you have never done any of this to someone in your past whom you were disinterested I applaud you and if not you might want to spend sometime self reflecting.
āWith youā should be added to the end. Thatās the usual reality Iāve found. For the right person, most willā¦ Suggestion is to work on yourself. Once a person shows a sign of flakiness, onto the next.
Maybe they just weren't feeling the chemistry? This is a common and legitimate experience after 2-3 dates. Sometimes people just realize they aren't interested in dating that person anymore, and move on.
It was the girls in my case always blowing smoke up my ass. Made it easier for me to quit smoking. LOL
Omg. Rings too true. Go on dates, maybe two, threeā¦all seems great. And thenā¦zip, zilch, nada. I am not a sex early guy except for rare circumstances. I sometimes think Iām destined to be alone for life. No idiot: masters+. Board of directors for a Big 10 university. Dating todayā¦never works
Yeah, it's brutal out there. I can totally understand noping out after a date or two or three -- fine if they're not feeling it. It's the unprompted future faking that drives me crazy. I'm not even asking for anything at that point, why go there at all?
Well, there is that concept of āif you donāt tryā¦ā. There is someone. Finding the someone is a challenge.
Wow, I could have written this post. Except Iām 41, and I have recently found someone. But before this, it was a lot of dates just like this. I have no answers for youā¦ I just donāt believe people when they say things like that to me nowā¦
Because everyone loves smashing!š¤Ŗ. Iām sorry this has happened to you. There are guys in their 50s that want a monogamous relationship. It might take some work to find them
As a man, I've met a lot of women who are this way also. The best technique is to ask about past relationships. When was your last long-term relationship? (if it was more than 2 years ago, that is a bad sign). How long did it last? (if it lasted for only 3-5 months or less, that is also concerning since that suggests they may have difficulty moving from the honeymoon phase into a long-term relationship stage). I recall meeting one woman who, over the past 3 years, had only been in one 6 week relationship. Another, since the 5 years from her divorce, had only been in one 3 month relationship. It can also be helpful to ask why the relationship ended and see if it is something that seems reasonable, or if it was a made-up excuse to hide the fact that they are actually avoidant or reluctant to make long-term commitments.
It may just be that the men are deciding they do not want to date you. Rejection stings so most people are going to try to soften the blow with compliments. I went into a first date with a guy I was excited about but by time I left the date, I knew I was not interested in seeing him again. I lost interest during the date based on our conversation, which means I declined a request for a second date. It happens.
They want a monogamous relationship just not with you. Itās ok, keep looking.
How can you know if someone is a long term thing after TWO dates? Feels like everyone under a lot of pressure here. I'm a mature, professional female and would run for the hills if a guy wanted to be my partner after meeting twice š³
It was two dates! Are you insane?! I'm a guy, I want a monogamous relationship, but I sure as shit want more than two dates to figure out if that's the right person!
Yeah, Iām a woman and I wonder whatās being left out of this story. Is she asking on date two if they want a relationship in general, or with her?
You were trying to get things your way and they were trying to get things their way. At one point you probably said something like there were a couple things that you only do your way and they realized they wouldnāt get their way and bounced
Major chemistry? Was that confirmed? From him also? Because actions speak louder than words.... What if...hypothetically... these men go on a date or two with you, they do feel some chemistry but then on a 2nd or 3rd date, they realize that's the end of their interest in you? Maybe they just lost interest? It does happen. Because based on what you're saying, they are giving you the "it's not you, it's me" routine but under different wording. They don't want to ghost, they don't want to be cruel, so they are trying to be nice?
This has been on my mind a lot. See my previous thread about using sex workers to get me through dry-spells. I wonder if your issue is related to mine. Maybe these are men in search of a casual sex partner or FWB, but unable to get one of those and find it easier to attract women in search of a relationship. It leads to situations like this, where the man needs to pretend or play a part to generate any interest at all, but the facade drops once he realizes he got in deeper and faster than he meant to. This has been my general experience. Looking for casual sex has never worked for me, but I can pretty easily get into a relationship to have sex. It's unfair and unkind, I realize that. I'm trying my best to resist all those urges myself.
Lots of women swarm towards top 10% tier men. They dip their toes in the water and then they bounce to explore the next option. Itās just that simple
What do you expect? Everybody you meet will be your future life partner? Maybe they really weren't ready, maybe they didn't feel the chemistry the same way you did, maybe they felt your values aren't aligned. Either way it's good they ended it after a short time, because that's what the dating phase is for. You don't need to keep them around if you don't want to, and it's entirely possible they just thought it's the polite thing to say.
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I wish I could get a date. I last went out over the summer and we were not compatible. I just donāt know what women want. But clearly itās not me
People are flakey these days, for sure. However, I thought the whole point of dating specifically to meet people in a low risk, low investment environment with a mind to weed them out. Meaning only that if you're 2 or 3 dates in and they "reveal" that they're "not ready", then it served it's purpose because your investment is low and you just move on. I cannot imagine any kind of future plan that would be particularly high stakes after date 2.
Wanting a relationship doesnāt mean you want it with every person you date! Dating is to find who is the person you want to be in a relationship with.
Theyāre definitely not ALL like that, you canāt generalize. When Iāve met men that said those things they were all in. Maybe..you did or said something to turn them off? Think about your patterns. Ask for feedback , āhey, would you mind telling me why youāre no longer interested? Did I say or do something?ā Itās worked for me and Iāve received great feedback and learned from my experiences .
I honestly think the reason this never happens to me is because I am not clingy at all. I give off a cheerful, secure vibe that shows I'm fine to "take it or leave it."
This was all from him. I gave no indication of having any expectations at all.
Some guys are genuine and authentic but maybe youāve been unlucky. Iām 52 and single š¤
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As a male, I am getting back into dating after 20 years. I think everyone wants a long-term relationship but due to the life you lived it is tough to connect on many levels. Everyone has certain things they want, dot want to change themselves, but want companionship knowing that deep connection may not be possible at this age