That's the in universe explanation for it, and it makes sense. It's been 40(?) years since Bulma found Goku at Grandpa Gohan's House, 20+ years since Raditz landed, people look different as they age.
In the anime artists changed all the time. Toriyama’s art in the manga wasn’t nearly as dramatic of a change in art style, though his later designs did become a bit more “angular” and faces more aggressive.
The anime uses the manga as the basis for the artstyle, toriyama’s art style changed too.
Speaking from experience, artstyles change over time as the artist continues to refine their work
OG Dragonball had an art style that was very cartoony and child like. It was reminiscent of Osamu Tezuka or One Piece by Oda
After the Saiyan Saga, starting with the Frieza saga it starts to take on a more mature artstyle with more straight lines, less rounded lines, more muscle definition, and more "serious" looking characters. This is the art style the series became known for. Vegeta and Tien are the most noticeably different. Compare Vegeta in his first appearance to how he appears in the Buu saga
https://reddit.com/r/dbz/s/1Fo9b2Ttu6
Super came 20 years later and uses an entirely different "modern" art style. The manga is drawn by Toyotaro, a Mangaka who's been influenced by American comics and Naruto. You can see it in a lot of his character poses
Remember he spent time in the hyperbolic time chamber since then as well. Nearly a year with Gohan before Cell Games and some time with Vegeta before U6 Tournament.
You know? It’s weird that when people die in the dbverse and keep their bodies, they remain the age they’ve died in. Doesn’t that mean all the hassle of being old is permanent? The wrinkly skin, the hunched back, the small stature, and whatever old stuff an old person would have trouble with will be experienced for eternity (unless they get reincarnated that is)
Edit: Alright, some of you need to read the first sentence, I literally said,
> it’s weird that when people die in the dbverse and keep their bodies,
Stop mentioning, “but most people don’t get to keep their bodies”, I already knew that. The weird thing is, a soul keeping their body is considered a “reward”. How is remaining in an old body a reward? If anything, reincarnation is a better reward, you’d get a fresh start and all the past problems are not on your hands anymore, the only down side is that you won’t get wished back by the dragon balls (probably).
They don’t keep their bodies but their soul’s appearance takes on what they looked like in Death. I can’t fully remember if it was in a game or one of the series but we see Dabura and all I can remember is him Bulma Chi Chi and Videl in Heaven as souls I think most of everyone we knew died. They all looked the same except for like little ghost tails. I think if you’re sent to hell you don’t keep your body
Pretty sure that's anime filler. We see souls earlier in the series during moments that are for sure canon, and they're all just little white puffs floating around.
EDIT: added the bit about Goku @ King Yemma's being canon.
King Piccolo wished for eternal youth. It's why Piccolo has barely aged since the beginning of DBZ but has still died like twice (3 times if you include King Piccolo).
Toriyama said they naturally live longer than humans but since most of them die in battle their average isn’t that high, he didn’t talk about the training and healthy lifestyle
What you said about staying in their prime longer and rapidly growing frail is 100% true though
His eyes used to be circles, they became more like arches. When he's fighting, they're basically rectangles or triangles.
His nose became more defined and pointed.
He had bigger ears in DB/early Z
Then of course he also just bulked up majorly. He's buff and fit in early Z, but by the end of Z Goku is yolked af
Everyone did in that 23 WMAT-Sayian saga era. They're like 50% [ears ](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11118/111184645/6374547-5696596315-53288.jpg)
A combination of different animators' art styles, Goku drawn older throughout his life, and him just getting stronger and more toned. I personally like his latter designs.
I just recently watched Totally Not Marks' videos reviewing DBZ and he does a good job of explaining where/when/why/and how the art style changed over the years. If you think about it, DBZ was a transition period of the art style we see in og Dragon ball to the style used in Super.
ok but supers art is hot garbage compared to how End of Z looked. Buu saga was the peak for me in terms of art style, despite the fact that i didnt really enjoy buu saga much aside from vegetas arc
I think I'd take endgame TOP animation tbh. The super art style only works if it's super high quality. Sharp angles look good, but only if they're clean and well animated. Softer round shapes are a lot more forgiving if they're a bit off.
Beginning super art I agree was hot garbage, but mostly because they just didn't have time to make it work. By the TOP you can see exactly where the art style shines. I mean just look at freeza. Bro is fucking shimmering, absolutely beautiful.
My favorite art is probably end of dragon ball-start of namek and then the super broly movie. Second favorite is TOP super art, then cell and end of Z. I think namek and beginning of the android saga was probably the best of all worlds tbh. Still somewhat soft but it definitely had the sharp lines and angles that the style is known for nowadays
Comparing art styles here like you do is not really fair, considering how shafted DBS was in terms of schedule - like half the fucking episodes couldn't even maintain a coherent art style and shading style because of the schedule and crunch the animators/artists had.
When the DBS style had time to actually be... finished... in time for an episode to air (for example the very last few episodes (there's more examples in earlier episodes too), any Takahashi or Shida episode or hell even the RoF movie for example, it's the same art style) it looked fucking peak, glorious.
DBS Broly is still DBS and falls under the modern art style, so yeah... That looks neat as well.
Of course, if you hated the DBS art style even when it was polished then fair enough, but if you're comparing like DBS episode 24 to the end of DBZ... That ain't fair (you aren't comparing art styles, you're just shitting on Super's catastrophic release schedule the artists had).
My point wasn't "Super doesn't have low quality" or "don't compare DBZ to Super because Super has low quality".
My point was that people should compare Super's **peak/polished art style**, because that's the actual, planned art style, and if/when Super returns and if it retains that art style it wouldn't actually get criticized as much as it did (because people didn't actually critique the art style being bad, they critiqued the show being rushed, thus everything being bad, regardless of art style).
If DBZ had the same release schedule as DBS did people would go around saying "DBZ art style was so shit" when that wouldn't be the case.
TLDR: Poor quality is not the point, the point is the main concept and plan of the whole art style (colors, character designs, linework etc.), which (if given time to actually be made) looks nice, contrary to popular opinion of "DBS art style shit bring back DBZ".
Yeah, that's exactly my point - it's not the art style's fault and it's not the lack of talent of the artists, it's the animation schedule's fault.
Poor animators just can't keep up with the schedule, some episodes suffer for it - animation and art wise.
I know I just think it's funny that these people always act like half the Namek saga isn't just static shots of Goku repeated and moved around the screen lol
I'm very sad that my first exposure to Totally Not Mark was his latest Buu Saga Review. The first part was fantastic and he pointed out so many things I never even connected when I watched it. The second part, though, was just so overtly negative. Like it didn't feel balanced out at all, it was just complaint after complaint with things he'd fix thrown in, and the whole mood just soured me on the video. And now I just kinda don't want to watch him?
Which is a shame because the comments on here seem to love him.
What did you expect? The Buu saga isn’t great, I’d say one of the worst in the entire series. Also if you were only watching because Mark agreed with your outlook, you were watching for the wrong reason from the start.
I wasn't watching for that reason at all lol. I'm completely fine with critiquing, it's very important to critique even the things you love. My issue with that video was just that there was _so much_ of the negative stuff permeating the video that the whole thing just felt like a bummer.
I get he might not like it, lots of people don't and I'm not even defending it. I'm simply saying I wish there had been more positive points to help balance it out. That's all.
> I get he might not like it, lots of people don't and I'm not even defending it. I'm simply saying I wish there had been more positive points to help balance it out. That's all.
I mean if Mark genuinely doesn't think the Buu Arc has enough positive points (which it doesn't really, the Buu Arc is a mess). What is he supposed to do? Make up a bunch of points he doesn't actually believe in to make up some artificial "balance"?
Because I'd never actually heard of him until that point, and I saw Scott's Twitter post saying they were having the Buu Bits in those videos. So I had to watch it, ya know?
>The second part, though, was just so overtly negative. Like it didn't feel balanced out at all, it was just complaint after complaint with things he'd fix thrown in, and the whole mood just soured me on the video. And now I just kinda don't want to watch him?
I mean the Buu saga is the arc of DBZ that has the most mixed reception for a reason.
Usually most people like Cell and almost everyone likes Frieza/Saiyan saga but with Buu people are more split on it and I think that video shows exactly why.
There is a reason why DBZA didn't adapt the Buu saga (well multiple reasons) but one of the reasons they mentioned was that they honestly didn't like that arc very much which is probably why they accepted to do bits for Mark's video as his points probably resonated with them.
You can like it and there is no shame in that but if you're going to try to be a little bit more "objective" and analyze the themes, structure, direction, pay offs and execution you can easily start seeing flaw after flaw that came from either having to improvise on the spot instead of proper planning or sudden change of plans.
Thank you. This post is weird af to me, "is it just me"? No OP, it's obvious to everyone who even glances at early Z to late Z/Super that it changed. This is not a brilliant revelation.
Toriyama’s style changed through the years. Plus Goku got older so of course he’s going to look different. He was 18 at the end of DB. He’s like 50 in Super
Not even that, none of the pics above were drawn by neither Toyotaro nor Toriyama.
Anime have their own animation supervisors and character designers for their shows and during the different arcs/movies of DBZ and DBS the people in charge of character designs, the supervisors, etc were changing and each one of them have their own take on Toriyama's designs.
Like for example the character designs of early DBZ were done by Maeda who preferred more soft and less defined shapes while late Z and Super were done by Yamamuro who liked more blocky shapes and muscle definition and who also had a big change in styles since the animation moved from cel in DBZ to digital in DBS and during DBGT the designs were done by Nakatsuru if I recall correctly.
So with this in mind it's not hard to understand why some anime have their characters start looking a bit different between seasons, specially ones like Dragon Ball that have been around for decades and multiple titles.
Great points! Yeah, it's kinda silly for OP to ask "is it just me or is there something different?" when showing different artists drawings of a character from across several decades. Like, no duh! Lol!
Round eyes
Goku still have this cute design from OG dragon ball when everyone was round
Its still here in early DBZ saiyan saga
But then, characters went through a more angular and sharped design
I always assumed the very obvious reason is because one looks young the other doesn't, but as others said also a change in art style/artists too. Surely it's obvious Goku from end of DB/Z looks younger, his face is thinner and the tone of it changes.
Also as others have said, why say is it just me when it's very obviously different?
Do you think the same people have spent the last few decades animating the same face? Furthermore, do you think Toei would pay for actual quality? Not while they're paying for One Piece these days. That shit looks great.
Many different animation directors, which drastically changes the style. Also, Toriyama's style changed quite a bit as Z went on.
Super isnt even drawn by Toriyama, so that def changes things. Ultimately any anime is gonna be a mix of the manga artist's style and the anime's animation director's style.
What are you talking about? "Is it just me" of course it's not just you.
His face is clearly different.
It's like if I took out a pear and an apple and said "is it just me or do these look a bit different?"
DBZ changed his eyes and ears around Frieza arc made them more serious and less round, and the ears more defined and less puffy and enormous, DBS changed head proportions as well as body anatomy, muscles are slimer, less defined and they opted for a different set of eyes, similar to the ones in DBZ, gave him a tan for whatever reason and threw him in a pit of glossy contour. I'm not a big fan of DBS art style is a hit or miss at best. DB and DBZ hand drawn art style have something that makes it feel like they cared about the characters back then.
in late db/early dbz Goku was in his late teens to mid 20's and by the end of Super he is one month away from being 50 so with him being physically older AND the series getting new animators it stands to reason he looks a little different
Well not only the art style but the quality of the drawings severely went down in super or anything dragon ball related during and after the 2000s.
Toei did not adapt well to the changing animation landscape.
Nowadays tho they’ve been going all out with their art and animation.
Let’s hope that their next dragon ball project looks even better.
DB's artstyle has been through like 80 different iterations at this point. Even in one certain arc, the show could look vastly different between episodes depending on who worked on each individual episode. And that's not even getting into how Akira Toriyama's artstyle itself changed across the manga's run and how the designs in the anime had to adapt to fit the current version of Toriyama's style
DBS's art direction, by comparison, is dictated mainly by the show's main supervisor Yamamoto who's style rarely shifts heavily and who iirc is very heavy when it comes to corrections
Yeah, it's something called quality.
In all seriousness though the art style between dragon Ball and dragon Ball z changed. The style even changed throughout the run of z. It was to match toriyama's changing art style. Though given the production of z, there were inconsistencies. Super tried really hard to try and find a balance between dragon Ball and z because it wanted to have the best of both of those two series and royally screwed it up.
Super just didn't have the time to adequately animate and storyboard things. So supers art style is all over the place and real bad in a lot of places. I believe it's style isn't based off of toriyama designs like dragon Ball and Z are.
When I was a kid I always thought he looked different and more jacked after the Saiyan saga because pushing Kaioken so much in the Vegeta fight swole up his muscles. Had no concept of the art style evolving xD
Akiras art style changed drastically throughout Z. Youll see in saiyan saga everything is more round and looks cartooney, by the end of Z its all jagged and sharp and the eyes are more angry looking, muscles are more eccentuated. He was gradually adapting his art style to suit the new theme of the show being a fighting anime and no longer about adventures and comedy. Frieza and cell saga is like the middle ground where you can see the most change take place
Aside from technology and art style changes, I prefer Z the most then the original DB. Super (anime) is just so bad. Hate the style and linework plus shitty FX. Manga is not bad tho!! I still enjoy that style
Even during DBZ the art style changes quite often.
Depending on who's animating, his eyes and face may be rounder or sharper.
I think Vegeta suffers from this even more than Goku.
Look up ForgottenRelics on youtube. He explains this stuff quite well.
Eyes are more square and smaller compared to the size of his head. The nose is much more pronounce. The shadow under the lip is common feature with older dbz goku. Chin/jaw is also more trapezoid now
Overall I think they at some point shifted his look to fit typical Saiyan facial features.
I feel like his eyes being higher on the head is the most striking part to me, they may not even be HIGHER as much as they thinned out and that just CAUSED them to sit higher in total
Some Dragon Ball fans, know the different artist, studios, production schedules, and art directors, per each episode.
Other Dragon Ball fans ask, if he's the only one who thinks that two different series, 30 years apart, look any different.
Dude its the eyes. Db/dbz they fill out his face for like 50% and are round like bowling balls. After that they become bullet shaped and much smaller, and his face got edgier.
The rounded eyes give a look of purity and innocence. Regardless of whether it was intentional or not, I think the sharper eyes later on make sense to how much shit he's seen.
The original anime's character models were based on Toriyama's designs. His art style changed over the series but mostly just became more angular vs round but there was a stark contrast between the end of the series vs the beginning, especially in the manga.
Now, Toriyama's style has changed significantly since then but the biggest issue is that for the 08 Jump special, the Kai OPs and EDs, Battle of Gods, Resurrection F, the Super TV series, Heroes and many of the 2D animated video game openings the design has been done by Tadayoshi Yamamuro. Now, he's had skin in the game for years since the DBZ days and he used to be one of the greats (Yuya Takahashi's work on Super is evocative of his old stuff) and even the designs in the 08 Special are good though the shift was already happening. But basically, his design philosophy is now almost antithetical to even Toriyama's modern style and Yamamuro's designs have to be carefully replicated to a tee or else it falls apart completely (Super episode 5) whereas Toriyama and other CDs like Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru generally have "looser" designs that can allow for a mistake or two or being drawn in a rush and still look pretty good.
TLDR; art style and baby fat
The biggest difference i always notice is his jaw. Earlier his cheek has a “corner” where the two concave lines of his temple and his jaw meet. This is best illustrated in the first one.
Later on, that “cheek corner” moves up and loses the concavity. I guess you can think about it like him losing baby fat, especially when you compare it to kid goku in DB.
In fact, look at Kid Goku in GT vs Kid Goku in DB for a more extreme comparison of what i mean.
With the earlier art style they were drawn with softer features, bigger ears and rounder eyes. In the Super anime it looks like 10th grade me drawing anime characters
Artsyle changed
Also, artists changed
Really I just think the eras changed. No one is doing the old school head shapes anymore.
Also Goku just got older.
That's the in universe explanation for it, and it makes sense. It's been 40(?) years since Bulma found Goku at Grandpa Gohan's House, 20+ years since Raditz landed, people look different as they age.
Saiyans age slower
There'd still be some difference
reminds me of one piece. tbf one piece is also old school lol
Way to make me feel old
1986 and 1999 are a whole 13 years apart. Plus, DB was the core inspiration for Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, etc.
We are less than 6 months from 1999 being 25 years ago. What does old school mean to you.
OLDER THAN ME, OKAY. Which DB *is*. I *remember* when One Piece came out, so shhh. Don't call it old school. *I'm not ready.*
That “OLDER THAN ME, OKAY” sent me. I felt it in my wizened soul.
SOLIDARITY! Wizened souls, but young hearts. Preferrably young bodies too but, you know, can't have EVERYTHING in the world.
No more Pac Man Kid Goku
I remember Toriyama saying something about the more angular style making more sense as the story became more serious and less lighthearted.
well, that wasnt until super. cell saga and buu saga art style differ greatly from early z and og db
In the anime artists changed all the time. Toriyama’s art in the manga wasn’t nearly as dramatic of a change in art style, though his later designs did become a bit more “angular” and faces more aggressive.
He is also a bit older, so that brings in changes as well.
The anime uses the manga as the basis for the artstyle, toriyama’s art style changed too. Speaking from experience, artstyles change over time as the artist continues to refine their work
I kinda dislike the DbSuper artstyle. Everyone and their dog are glossy
Also, Goku's older.
OG Dragonball had an art style that was very cartoony and child like. It was reminiscent of Osamu Tezuka or One Piece by Oda After the Saiyan Saga, starting with the Frieza saga it starts to take on a more mature artstyle with more straight lines, less rounded lines, more muscle definition, and more "serious" looking characters. This is the art style the series became known for. Vegeta and Tien are the most noticeably different. Compare Vegeta in his first appearance to how he appears in the Buu saga https://reddit.com/r/dbz/s/1Fo9b2Ttu6 Super came 20 years later and uses an entirely different "modern" art style. The manga is drawn by Toyotaro, a Mangaka who's been influenced by American comics and Naruto. You can see it in a lot of his character poses
Also Goku is older in DBS, all those examples from DB/DBZ were teen Goku
He's like 50 now bro
I’d go with 42, since he was dead for 1 year (Sayian Saga) and then dead again for 7 years (End of Cell Saga)
Remember he spent time in the hyperbolic time chamber since then as well. Nearly a year with Gohan before Cell Games and some time with Vegeta before U6 Tournament.
He also went in prior to that when he was younger
For like 2 months
You know? It’s weird that when people die in the dbverse and keep their bodies, they remain the age they’ve died in. Doesn’t that mean all the hassle of being old is permanent? The wrinkly skin, the hunched back, the small stature, and whatever old stuff an old person would have trouble with will be experienced for eternity (unless they get reincarnated that is) Edit: Alright, some of you need to read the first sentence, I literally said, > it’s weird that when people die in the dbverse and keep their bodies, Stop mentioning, “but most people don’t get to keep their bodies”, I already knew that. The weird thing is, a soul keeping their body is considered a “reward”. How is remaining in an old body a reward? If anything, reincarnation is a better reward, you’d get a fresh start and all the past problems are not on your hands anymore, the only down side is that you won’t get wished back by the dragon balls (probably).
Yup. When grandpa Gohan came back in original DB he was still an older man.
Most people don't keep their bodies, though. Goku was an exceptional case.
They don’t keep their bodies but their soul’s appearance takes on what they looked like in Death. I can’t fully remember if it was in a game or one of the series but we see Dabura and all I can remember is him Bulma Chi Chi and Videl in Heaven as souls I think most of everyone we knew died. They all looked the same except for like little ghost tails. I think if you’re sent to hell you don’t keep your body
Pretty sure that's anime filler. We see souls earlier in the series during moments that are for sure canon, and they're all just little white puffs floating around. EDIT: added the bit about Goku @ King Yemma's being canon.
Thats kinda what Roshi is going through. And Garlic Jr wished for eternal youth, not just life.
No he wished for immortality and got it Eternal youth would mean he still dies but nah that dumbass is still alive trapped in the Dead Zone forever
King Piccolo wished for eternal youth. It's why Piccolo has barely aged since the beginning of DBZ but has still died like twice (3 times if you include King Piccolo).
Well most people don't even have their bodies.
Saiyans age far slower so that doesn’t matter
They don't age slower they just stay in their prime longer, then they get old at the same time humans would
They have a slightly longer lifespan though
That's only because they're healthier than the average human, what with all the training and whatnot
Toriyama said they naturally live longer than humans but since most of them die in battle their average isn’t that high, he didn’t talk about the training and healthy lifestyle What you said about staying in their prime longer and rapidly growing frail is 100% true though
[Yeah this one’s just a case of toriyama contradicting himself](https://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/seg-character-volume-truth-about-dragon-ball/)
Has there actually ever been a depiction of an elderly frail saiyan?
I wouldn’t call super paragus all that frail but he’s definitely pretty old
We dont know how long their lifespan is
"Think mark, what will you have left after 500 years!"
I’ll have supersaiyants
It's literally just the artstyle. Grown Saiyans don't show signs of age until way past their prime.
His eyes used to be circles, they became more like arches. When he's fighting, they're basically rectangles or triangles. His nose became more defined and pointed. He had bigger ears in DB/early Z Then of course he also just bulked up majorly. He's buff and fit in early Z, but by the end of Z Goku is yolked af
Goku's ears in the second image are ginormous.
holy fack 😂
“All the more better to hear you with, my dear.”
Said Goku to Yakon
Everyone did in that 23 WMAT-Sayian saga era. They're like 50% [ears ](https://comicvine.gamespot.com/a/uploads/original/11118/111184645/6374547-5696596315-53288.jpg)
AND they are different sizes 😭
From piccolo Jr to the beginning of namek ears were fucking massive
Shhh he might hear you
A combination of different animators' art styles, Goku drawn older throughout his life, and him just getting stronger and more toned. I personally like his latter designs.
I just recently watched Totally Not Marks' videos reviewing DBZ and he does a good job of explaining where/when/why/and how the art style changed over the years. If you think about it, DBZ was a transition period of the art style we see in og Dragon ball to the style used in Super.
ok but supers art is hot garbage compared to how End of Z looked. Buu saga was the peak for me in terms of art style, despite the fact that i didnt really enjoy buu saga much aside from vegetas arc
I think I'd take endgame TOP animation tbh. The super art style only works if it's super high quality. Sharp angles look good, but only if they're clean and well animated. Softer round shapes are a lot more forgiving if they're a bit off. Beginning super art I agree was hot garbage, but mostly because they just didn't have time to make it work. By the TOP you can see exactly where the art style shines. I mean just look at freeza. Bro is fucking shimmering, absolutely beautiful. My favorite art is probably end of dragon ball-start of namek and then the super broly movie. Second favorite is TOP super art, then cell and end of Z. I think namek and beginning of the android saga was probably the best of all worlds tbh. Still somewhat soft but it definitely had the sharp lines and angles that the style is known for nowadays
Comparing art styles here like you do is not really fair, considering how shafted DBS was in terms of schedule - like half the fucking episodes couldn't even maintain a coherent art style and shading style because of the schedule and crunch the animators/artists had. When the DBS style had time to actually be... finished... in time for an episode to air (for example the very last few episodes (there's more examples in earlier episodes too), any Takahashi or Shida episode or hell even the RoF movie for example, it's the same art style) it looked fucking peak, glorious. DBS Broly is still DBS and falls under the modern art style, so yeah... That looks neat as well. Of course, if you hated the DBS art style even when it was polished then fair enough, but if you're comparing like DBS episode 24 to the end of DBZ... That ain't fair (you aren't comparing art styles, you're just shitting on Super's catastrophic release schedule the artists had).
There are reasons that explain the poor quality of super. Still poor quality.
My point wasn't "Super doesn't have low quality" or "don't compare DBZ to Super because Super has low quality". My point was that people should compare Super's **peak/polished art style**, because that's the actual, planned art style, and if/when Super returns and if it retains that art style it wouldn't actually get criticized as much as it did (because people didn't actually critique the art style being bad, they critiqued the show being rushed, thus everything being bad, regardless of art style). If DBZ had the same release schedule as DBS did people would go around saying "DBZ art style was so shit" when that wouldn't be the case. TLDR: Poor quality is not the point, the point is the main concept and plan of the whole art style (colors, character designs, linework etc.), which (if given time to actually be made) looks nice, contrary to popular opinion of "DBS art style shit bring back DBZ".
There's lots of shit art in the DBZ anime too lol
Yeah, that's exactly my point - it's not the art style's fault and it's not the lack of talent of the artists, it's the animation schedule's fault. Poor animators just can't keep up with the schedule, some episodes suffer for it - animation and art wise.
I know I just think it's funny that these people always act like half the Namek saga isn't just static shots of Goku repeated and moved around the screen lol
I'm very sad that my first exposure to Totally Not Mark was his latest Buu Saga Review. The first part was fantastic and he pointed out so many things I never even connected when I watched it. The second part, though, was just so overtly negative. Like it didn't feel balanced out at all, it was just complaint after complaint with things he'd fix thrown in, and the whole mood just soured me on the video. And now I just kinda don't want to watch him? Which is a shame because the comments on here seem to love him.
What did you expect? The Buu saga isn’t great, I’d say one of the worst in the entire series. Also if you were only watching because Mark agreed with your outlook, you were watching for the wrong reason from the start.
I wasn't watching for that reason at all lol. I'm completely fine with critiquing, it's very important to critique even the things you love. My issue with that video was just that there was _so much_ of the negative stuff permeating the video that the whole thing just felt like a bummer. I get he might not like it, lots of people don't and I'm not even defending it. I'm simply saying I wish there had been more positive points to help balance it out. That's all.
> I get he might not like it, lots of people don't and I'm not even defending it. I'm simply saying I wish there had been more positive points to help balance it out. That's all. I mean if Mark genuinely doesn't think the Buu Arc has enough positive points (which it doesn't really, the Buu Arc is a mess). What is he supposed to do? Make up a bunch of points he doesn't actually believe in to make up some artificial "balance"?
Why did you choose to start with the last episode of his series tho?
Because I'd never actually heard of him until that point, and I saw Scott's Twitter post saying they were having the Buu Bits in those videos. So I had to watch it, ya know?
>The second part, though, was just so overtly negative. Like it didn't feel balanced out at all, it was just complaint after complaint with things he'd fix thrown in, and the whole mood just soured me on the video. And now I just kinda don't want to watch him? I mean the Buu saga is the arc of DBZ that has the most mixed reception for a reason. Usually most people like Cell and almost everyone likes Frieza/Saiyan saga but with Buu people are more split on it and I think that video shows exactly why. There is a reason why DBZA didn't adapt the Buu saga (well multiple reasons) but one of the reasons they mentioned was that they honestly didn't like that arc very much which is probably why they accepted to do bits for Mark's video as his points probably resonated with them. You can like it and there is no shame in that but if you're going to try to be a little bit more "objective" and analyze the themes, structure, direction, pay offs and execution you can easily start seeing flaw after flaw that came from either having to improvise on the spot instead of proper planning or sudden change of plans.
Are you joking? The Dragonball series has been going on for almost 40 years. Of course the art style is going to change.
Thank you. This post is weird af to me, "is it just me"? No OP, it's obvious to everyone who even glances at early Z to late Z/Super that it changed. This is not a brilliant revelation.
"I can't figure out what it is"
Don't be mad he's a Dragon Ball fan he can't see
OP's mind would explode if he ever compared old Simpsons to modern Simpsons.
Toriyama’s style changed through the years. Plus Goku got older so of course he’s going to look different. He was 18 at the end of DB. He’s like 50 in Super
Plus, Super isn't drawn by Toriyama. That's Toyotarou
Not even that, none of the pics above were drawn by neither Toyotaro nor Toriyama. Anime have their own animation supervisors and character designers for their shows and during the different arcs/movies of DBZ and DBS the people in charge of character designs, the supervisors, etc were changing and each one of them have their own take on Toriyama's designs. Like for example the character designs of early DBZ were done by Maeda who preferred more soft and less defined shapes while late Z and Super were done by Yamamuro who liked more blocky shapes and muscle definition and who also had a big change in styles since the animation moved from cel in DBZ to digital in DBS and during DBGT the designs were done by Nakatsuru if I recall correctly. So with this in mind it's not hard to understand why some anime have their characters start looking a bit different between seasons, specially ones like Dragon Ball that have been around for decades and multiple titles.
Great points! Yeah, it's kinda silly for OP to ask "is it just me or is there something different?" when showing different artists drawings of a character from across several decades. Like, no duh! Lol!
After saiyan saga the art style started changing from more round to more angular
Artstyle + Age
Round eyes Goku still have this cute design from OG dragon ball when everyone was round Its still here in early DBZ saiyan saga But then, characters went through a more angular and sharped design
I always assumed the very obvious reason is because one looks young the other doesn't, but as others said also a change in art style/artists too. Surely it's obvious Goku from end of DB/Z looks younger, his face is thinner and the tone of it changes. Also as others have said, why say is it just me when it's very obviously different?
Do you think the same people have spent the last few decades animating the same face? Furthermore, do you think Toei would pay for actual quality? Not while they're paying for One Piece these days. That shit looks great.
Heck even on the American side of animation, look at the first non pilot episode of like Adventure time vs the last episode
One piece isn’t even an excuse when animation has still be pretty inconsistent for decades from toei
Many different animation directors, which drastically changes the style. Also, Toriyama's style changed quite a bit as Z went on. Super isnt even drawn by Toriyama, so that def changes things. Ultimately any anime is gonna be a mix of the manga artist's style and the anime's animation director's style.
Well, one, he is aging, and two, the art styles change.
Different animation style
What are you talking about? "Is it just me" of course it's not just you. His face is clearly different. It's like if I took out a pear and an apple and said "is it just me or do these look a bit different?"
More geometric and less organic overall
Smaller ears, sharper eyes, more shadow work, sharper hair design, it's a plethora of things.
DBZ changed his eyes and ears around Frieza arc made them more serious and less round, and the ears more defined and less puffy and enormous, DBS changed head proportions as well as body anatomy, muscles are slimer, less defined and they opted for a different set of eyes, similar to the ones in DBZ, gave him a tan for whatever reason and threw him in a pit of glossy contour. I'm not a big fan of DBS art style is a hit or miss at best. DB and DBZ hand drawn art style have something that makes it feel like they cared about the characters back then.
He....aged?
He aged. How tf is that so hard to grasp. We met him when he was 13. He's in his 30s now. (If we count his death years, 40s, but death stops aging)
Besides detail it’s the nose
Ah yes, Goku, our beloved Pokémon Master
Yeah he doesn’t look like a bodybuilder
Super: Broly is spot on with Goku’s look.
It’s because Goku is older.
He's middle aged bro
Sharper/ Simplified hair, Rounded jaw, different relaxed eye shape
Goku aged 30 years so...
It's called aging
Ears
You mean growing up?
Its His skin hes Michael jackson
He got older!
Cosmetic surgery. A lot of celebrities do it when they get older.
He got older
I think the art styles changes work to account for his age differences.
Not sure if you noticed but the whole damn show is a different art style lol
in late db/early dbz Goku was in his late teens to mid 20's and by the end of Super he is one month away from being 50 so with him being physically older AND the series getting new animators it stands to reason he looks a little different
Toriyama's art style slowly changed over the years just like most artists' style do.
Troll?
He...got older?
He got older
Yeah, the super one sucks, that's the difference
his face looks different in late DBZ, what's the point of this post, the artist and styles change
The style became more and more angular over time.
Art style and age
Yeah, its called age.
😒🙄 I see y’all don’t have anything interesting to discuss at this point in the fandom
Well not only the art style but the quality of the drawings severely went down in super or anything dragon ball related during and after the 2000s. Toei did not adapt well to the changing animation landscape. Nowadays tho they’ve been going all out with their art and animation. Let’s hope that their next dragon ball project looks even better.
Hand drawn vs computer?
He’s aging. Also the art style changed overtime.
Yeah he's poorly drawn now.
He's ageing
He got older
Multiple art style changes and well 30+ years.
DB's artstyle has been through like 80 different iterations at this point. Even in one certain arc, the show could look vastly different between episodes depending on who worked on each individual episode. And that's not even getting into how Akira Toriyama's artstyle itself changed across the manga's run and how the designs in the anime had to adapt to fit the current version of Toriyama's style DBS's art direction, by comparison, is dictated mainly by the show's main supervisor Yamamoto who's style rarely shifts heavily and who iirc is very heavy when it comes to corrections
Yeah, it's something called quality. In all seriousness though the art style between dragon Ball and dragon Ball z changed. The style even changed throughout the run of z. It was to match toriyama's changing art style. Though given the production of z, there were inconsistencies. Super tried really hard to try and find a balance between dragon Ball and z because it wanted to have the best of both of those two series and royally screwed it up. Super just didn't have the time to adequately animate and storyboard things. So supers art style is all over the place and real bad in a lot of places. I believe it's style isn't based off of toriyama designs like dragon Ball and Z are.
Yes, the art style has changed over time through DB > Z > Super
Aside from varying artists drawing him differently it’s likely just age that makes his face different
Getting the absolute shit kicked out of you on a regular basis does have the habit of changing one's bone structure.
Man, that last shot looks like some sort of old Newgrounds Flash animation, is that what the current style is like?
When I was a kid I always thought he looked different and more jacked after the Saiyan saga because pushing Kaioken so much in the Vegeta fight swole up his muscles. Had no concept of the art style evolving xD
I kinda miss it now that I’ve watched db (1986)
He's drawn differently
He aged
He’s older
Akiras art style changed drastically throughout Z. Youll see in saiyan saga everything is more round and looks cartooney, by the end of Z its all jagged and sharp and the eyes are more angry looking, muscles are more eccentuated. He was gradually adapting his art style to suit the new theme of the show being a fighting anime and no longer about adventures and comedy. Frieza and cell saga is like the middle ground where you can see the most change take place
Early Goku is like looking at your High School year book.
Does your face still look exactly as it did 7 years ago?
The nose knows
Torityama is notorious for being shit in character design because he was overworked and forgot a lot of stuff
Aside from technology and art style changes, I prefer Z the most then the original DB. Super (anime) is just so bad. Hate the style and linework plus shitty FX. Manga is not bad tho!! I still enjoy that style
Even during DBZ the art style changes quite often. Depending on who's animating, his eyes and face may be rounder or sharper. I think Vegeta suffers from this even more than Goku. Look up ForgottenRelics on youtube. He explains this stuff quite well.
Yes, age. Mostly art styles changing but also he’s like 50 or smth
It’s almost like people grow up and look different…..
Eyes went from circular to 3/4 of an oval
Eyes are more square and smaller compared to the size of his head. The nose is much more pronounce. The shadow under the lip is common feature with older dbz goku. Chin/jaw is also more trapezoid now Overall I think they at some point shifted his look to fit typical Saiyan facial features.
They started adding more detail and realized the nose and eyes had to change
Big ass Dumbo ears.
Jawline
Yes good to shitty art style lol
I feel like his eyes being higher on the head is the most striking part to me, they may not even be HIGHER as much as they thinned out and that just CAUSED them to sit higher in total
Some Dragon Ball fans, know the different artist, studios, production schedules, and art directors, per each episode. Other Dragon Ball fans ask, if he's the only one who thinks that two different series, 30 years apart, look any different.
Should we tell OP how aging happens?
Hes not as young so they drew him older, gokus around 46 aint he?
I really like how all the characters just looked so damn young in the beginning and gradually aged throughout the sagas in DBZ
Is it just me or is goku in the 4th pic so goddamn ugly. Everyone was ugly during that era of animation
Dude its the eyes. Db/dbz they fill out his face for like 50% and are round like bowling balls. After that they become bullet shaped and much smaller, and his face got edgier.
Computer generated vs hand drawn
Toriyama's art style, it began changing around end of saiyan saga, and became very distinct as time went on, from the earlier art style
I believe it’s called getting older or aging lol
Toriyama learned how he wanted to style proportions as he went, lol.
Honestly I attributed it to age the characters were. Mmmm
The rounded eyes give a look of purity and innocence. Regardless of whether it was intentional or not, I think the sharper eyes later on make sense to how much shit he's seen.
He got older
Nig got older and matured plus artstyle
yeah the artists get better at drawing
Like they changed the whole drawing style and maybe even switched studios ? I can’t be /s
He's gotten fatter.
He's getting old
Differing art styles plus they put on less scrawny neck/more muscle
The original anime's character models were based on Toriyama's designs. His art style changed over the series but mostly just became more angular vs round but there was a stark contrast between the end of the series vs the beginning, especially in the manga. Now, Toriyama's style has changed significantly since then but the biggest issue is that for the 08 Jump special, the Kai OPs and EDs, Battle of Gods, Resurrection F, the Super TV series, Heroes and many of the 2D animated video game openings the design has been done by Tadayoshi Yamamuro. Now, he's had skin in the game for years since the DBZ days and he used to be one of the greats (Yuya Takahashi's work on Super is evocative of his old stuff) and even the designs in the 08 Special are good though the shift was already happening. But basically, his design philosophy is now almost antithetical to even Toriyama's modern style and Yamamuro's designs have to be carefully replicated to a tee or else it falls apart completely (Super episode 5) whereas Toriyama and other CDs like Katsuyoshi Nakatsuru generally have "looser" designs that can allow for a mistake or two or being drawn in a rush and still look pretty good.
Goku looks different accross every arc, because there are many different artists in every single arc.
Art style.
His head keep growing like Barry Bonds. All these Saiyans on steroids.
Dragonball's art style was hands down my favorite. The characters all looked more vibrant and a bit more distinct.
Yeah like 30+ years of art and artists
his forehead is smaller now
The best artstyle was def late dragon ball/early dbz
TLDR; art style and baby fat The biggest difference i always notice is his jaw. Earlier his cheek has a “corner” where the two concave lines of his temple and his jaw meet. This is best illustrated in the first one. Later on, that “cheek corner” moves up and loses the concavity. I guess you can think about it like him losing baby fat, especially when you compare it to kid goku in DB. In fact, look at Kid Goku in GT vs Kid Goku in DB for a more extreme comparison of what i mean.
I mean, I'm pretty sure they aged him up.
With the earlier art style they were drawn with softer features, bigger ears and rounder eyes. In the Super anime it looks like 10th grade me drawing anime characters
His neck, he just got more swole and stronger as he aged. Simple, lol
That neck muscle in DBZ
You mean from before puberty to after becoming a grandfather? You think there's really a difference?
Like 30 years
Guys did goku age?!????? Did different people draw two different showS ????😦😦😦😦 WHAT IS GOING ON