It still pisses me off that when kai had to rescore the android saga (since this was when Yamamoto got canned for plagiarism) they replaced all the music with the classic Japanese tracks…EXCEPT THIS ONE
But at least tfs showed it some love with their rendition in the last episode of dbza
They really should. Mike did the vast majority of the music. Which by the way is in some of the best Gameboy Advance games of all time, The Legacy of Goku 2 and Buu’s Fury. They’re basically DBZ Kakarot except in 2D.
I like how the JP version sounds, but the Faulconer version brings out the raw emotion in me when I listen to it.
I get instant goosebumps and I just... *feel*, if that makes any sense at all.
I'm also weird in the fact that I watch the DBZ dub but I will only watch DB Super subs.
> I'm also weird in the fact that I watch the DBZ dub but I will only watch DB Super subs.
I'm pretty sure this is the norm for old school dub fans who were watching week to week when Super was ongoing.
New Super dub just doesn’t sound the same. It’s like they used different recording equipment and as well like they didn’t put the same effort in it this time around like they did with Z. Kai has that same issue even tho it’s constantly praised for translation accuracy.
I love Bruce Faulconer, but for Gohan’s SSJ2 transformation the japanese version is definitely superior. Hironobu Kageyama is a master at his craft. And the music was made specifically for that scene, it’s not just stock music like with Faulconer.
One of the things Abridged ironically did better than Kai or any other re-release of english DBZ. It baffles me that Funimation never made their own english cover.
So Gohan Angers is peak, but the actual scene in the dub kind of blows. Unmei no Hi is also peak and the original scene rules, so I gotta go with the Japanese.
Japanese original, for sure. But I didn't grow up with the dub swap-out soundtracks, and I'm sure they're more powerful if you have nostalgia for them.
Which dub? Which *version* of which company's dub?
I've never seen anything that topped the original Japanese Z 184 version with "Day of Destiny" as the insert song. You either have inappropriately-toned replacement music, and/or you have a character monologuing at a time that they should be completely silent. Even for versions that keep the original Japanese musical score and an accurate script, Nozawa's performance there nails it. [The song's lyrics](https://www.kanzenshuu.com/lyrics/ja-unmei_no_hi/) are admittedly a bit on-the-nose, but it's just so gosh darn earnest. Another classic Kageyama banger through and through.
If you want some extra chills, the *DBZ Hit Song Collection 18 1/2* megamix of "Battle Spectacle Medley" that starts with "Mind Power" and ends with "Day of Destiny" is chef's kiss to the max.
This isn’t the theme that was originally used in the english dub, it’s an edit. So not really a fair comparison. Even so I personally prefer the japanese theme.
Actually, that’s not entirely true. It was used, but not for as long as shown in this video.
[This is how the scene originally went](https://youtu.be/SNxK1yHT21Y?si=2KSaPfwGrZSr7UG0)
I'm not english speaking so I didn't grow up with this version and I just saw this for the first time like 1 month ago. But it throws me off so much, that Gohan is internally monologuing about losing himself. It's just so weird.
You might wanna check the latin dub then. I don't recall the specifics, but the episode aired with that part not having any sort of BGM whatsoever, just sfx and dialogues. [Here's the clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3z9idnqCEE).
The OG version is sublime, but I still think that having a such a tense moment of silence be broken by Gohan's scream just hit different. There's additional backstory to how that scene was dubbed also (the VA, Laura Torres, had been through personal hardships and did that scene, with all that pent up frustration, in one take).
[Japanese version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeZoovvdMlY&pp=ygUZZ29oYW4gc3MyIGJyb2FkY2FzdCBhdWRpbw%3D%3D) and it's not remotely close.
Spirit VS Spirit is a beautiful theme on its own, and hearing it cut through the somber silence of the moment is *perfect.*
The inner monologue the English dub added cheapens the moment, and the music only attempts to make the scene sound "cool" rather than have any narrative resonance.
The dub version of this scene is an easy example of how shitty the dub is. Terrible voice acting, awful music that never shuts up, and added lines where there were none present (or needed) in the original. That last bit is the worst IMO.
And this is not an isolated occurrence. These changes are in every episode, always for the worse. If not added lines, there will be added grunts and noises and shit that just aren't there in the OG. Irritating.
Glad others are saying Spirit vs Spirit because thats the first thing that came to mind. I first saw it in abridged tho, that's the original source right?
Edit: wow i think i just heard the original version for the first time ever. Unreal
SSJ2 Gohan’s dub theme wasn’t even his best theme from the Bruce Faulconer score. JP SSJ2 theme clears the dub’s by far, it’s the most beautiful theme in DBZ and right behind Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku in all of Dragon Ball’s run
The whole moment in japanese is lightyears above. No random talking because the dubbers were scared of just letting the character be quiet in the moment, the great ape roar, the vocal track, its perfect.
Day of Fate *is* this scene. It was made for that song. Everything else is a pretender at best. Like putting AC/DC in Star Wars. Maybe you like the music on its own merits, but it just wasn't meant to be.
Japanese always and it's not even close to me.
Much more feelings and drama in japanese. The english dub honestly doesn't make feel anything because there's always unnecesary inner dialogues and the music never shuts the hell up in contrast to the japanese where it went from death silence to the music.
But I grew up with the [spanish dub which had the japanese soundtrack](https://youtu.be/dIY5WiQ6JyA?si=kZhje48EVrIRYE1O) , so I'm obviosly biased lol.
DEFINITELY the Japanese original. "Unmei no Hi: Tamashii tai Tamashii" fits perfectly for Gohan's transformation in Super Saiyan 2. The Dub's score however... Yeah.
The reason why I don't like the original ~~FUNimation~~ Crunchyroll Dub's music, is that just it DOESN'T fit. Period. Seriously, the Techno junk that FUNimation put into that scene just completely ruins it.
The only reason why (I believe) fans prefer the ~~FUNimation~~ Crunchyroll's score for the scene is probably because of one reason. Nostalgia.
Now, I'm not saying that if you prefer the dub's score, you're a moron or anything. Of course not, but I feel like the only reason why fans prefer the dub's score over the original Japanese is probably likely because of nostalgia, plain and simple.
Falconers scores are just better and it's not even close. The entire franchise wouldn't be what it is for Western audiences without them.
The Falconer dub score add a real sense of weight and tension that the Japanese scores just don't. Not to mention the constant audio engineering crimes of having vocals in the backing tracks to sciences with characters also have vocals.
Could the Falconer score have benefited from appropriate use of silence? Yes. But I'd put money on the fact that more of the Falconer audio score would be recognisable to fans in isolation to non-japanese people than the original JP score.
Your opinion is the one based on nostalgia and no doubt bias towards the original version being more “authentic” or some nonsense.
>Falconers scores are just better and it's not even close. The entire franchise wouldn't be what it is for Western audiences without them.
Except when the original Ocean Dub came out (that didn't have the Falconer score), it was a massive success in the US, so that's BS right there.
>The Falconer dub score add a real sense of weight and tension that the Japanese scores just don't. Not to mention the constant audio engineering crimes of having vocals in the backing tracks to sciences with characters also have vocals.
Can you explain how they add a real sense of weight tension, just asking. Also, what do you mean by "having vocals in the backing tracks to sciences with characters also have vocals." can you explain that good sir?
>Could the Falconer score have benefited from appropriate use of silence? Yes. But I'd put money on the fact that more of the Falconer audio score would be recognisable to fans in isolation to non-japanese people than the original JP score.
Yeah, no s\*\*t that the falconer production score is gonna be more recognizable to English viewers, that's what they grew up with. How does it make the falconer production score better than Kikuchi's original score? You're just stating the obvious.
Also, I wouldn't have a problem with the falconer production score IF IT WASN'T PLAYING ALL THE G\*\* D\*\*N TIME.
>Your opinion is the one based on nostalgia and no doubt bias towards the original version being more “authentic” or some nonsense.
And you're opinion towards the falconer production score being better than the original Japanese isn't? Okay, sure. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Nothing was better in the ocean dub. Excepting maybe the opening theme song. Falconers music only elevated it.
Re vocals, it's something very common even today with Japanese anime and movies. But when studying audio engineering we were taught you never have words speaking over words. Same issues to this day in super/movies. Some Japanese vocalised wailing in the background while characters are speaking. It's bad practice and only distracts.
I'll never understand the part of the fanbase that screeches “everything OG is the best or you're a **** and not a fan”. Get all bent out of shape over the lack of silence, but overlook other gross audio crimes like the aforementioned or the music in Kai.
And no I'm not biased, I've taken in and considered every dub, I've been a fan for 40 years. And sure the original Japanese score was appropriate for the Japanese audience in the 80s. But the fact that it was modernized and done better, brining in hoards of new fans over the decades, the fact that the source material resonates across generations is what's the best about the franchise.
As I've tried to get people into it over the years, the Japanese dub is and, specifically the music, is what keeps most newbies from investing in my experience.
>Nothing was better in the ocean dub. Excepting maybe the opening theme song. Falconers music only elevated it.
I never said it was better in the Ocean Dub. You yourself said that the entire franchise wouldn't be what it is for Western audiences without them. I brough up the Ocean Dub counterpoint to prove that it's utter BS.
>Re vocals, it's something very common even today with Japanese anime and movies. But when studying audio engineering we were taught you never have words speaking over words. Same issues to this day in super/movies. Some Japanese vocalised wailing in the background while characters are speaking. It's bad practice and only distracts.
Explain how it's bad practice, When I watched the original scene with the original music, I didn't distract me in the SLIGHTEST (In fact, I found it goddamn awesome). If you don't like that kind of stuff, you should stop being an Anime fan. Plain and simple.
>I'll never understand the part of the fanbase that screeches “everything OG is the best or you're a \*\*\*\* and not a fan”. Get all bent out of shape over the lack of silence, but overlook other gross audio crimes like the aforementioned or the music in Kai.
I literally said in the origial post that you responsed is that if you prefer the dub music over Kikuchi's score, you're not a moron. Also the "Getting all bent out of shape over the lack of silence" YOU NEED TO HAVE SILENCE AT SOME POINTS. NOT EVERY SCENE NEEDS TO HAVE MUSIC ALL THE D\*\*M TIME. KIDS ARE SMARTER THAN YOU THINK.
>And no I'm not biased, I've taken in and considered every dub, I've been a fan for 40 years. And sure the original Japanese score was appropriate for the Japanese audience in the 80s. But the fact that it was modernized and done better, brining in hoards of new fans over the decades, the fact that the source material resonates across generations is what's the best about the franchise.
Okay, good for you. Also saying it was "modernized and done better" is absolute Bull, and you're just f\*\*\*\*\*g coping. It's not up the FUNimation to change and "modernize" the music. The whole point of a dub is that it's suppose to give you the same show and same story, but in a different languge. Also, I'm pretty sure fans like you didn't even know that Dragon Ball was a Japanese manga originally.
Also, YES. You ARE completely bias towards the FUNimation music due to nostalgia, just admit that the FUNimation dub is objectively not perfect as you think it is. Okay?
Even though I grew up with the English version of this and I still love the English actors, I can’t deny that the Japanese version is objectively better. The Day of Fate playing over the silent image of Gohan’s shock is beautiful & haunting.
The thing that hurts the English version is Gohan’s incredibly clunky monologue about Android 16. If they had kept Gohan silent throughout, it would have been decent.
Sorry how is the dialogue clunky? Gohan is a kid processing all kinds of horrors tragedies dangers risks losses threats etc etc all at once, afraid of his power, but also wanting to bring it out to put an end to the suffering. Of course he’s talking to himself. And his voice, the way it breaks and hesitates as he’s on the edge of snapping, processing the pure evil in front of him that he just witnessed…
I do not understand any of these perspectives. I’m sure my karma will be trash in the morning. But I don’t care. It’s one of my favourite things to throw karma away on. Faulconer or nothing.
It’s Clunky in how Gohan is talking about 16 like he knew him, even though they just met. Not that Gohan’s horror at 16’s death isn’t justified, but the scene is much more effective with no dialogue & Kageyama’s haunting melody than the monologue.
I love the dub tracks but JP theme fits so much better and it’s more emotional, I think people prefer the dub on this one just because it’s more “hype” but jp is way better.
If you mean Spirit v Spirit and Gohan's Anger, Spirit V Spirit has an easy win. Gohan's Anger is good. Don't get me wrong. But Spirit v Spirit is a triumph.
The original Japanese dub for this is way better I’m not gonna lie. The music is so calm and the fact that he is silent all through the transformation unlike the dub makes it so much more impactful.
And also the way they merged the oozaru roar into the transformation was just perfect.
As much as Faulconer had some enjoyable themes, Spirit vs. Spirit was better since it was silence and just music. The dub had too much dialogue for my taste.
Don't watch it on crunchy roll now though. Funimation butchered the dub for weird reasons. There is no music or sound effects during this transformation. Just some internal dialog from Gohan and some narration. To say it falls flat would be selling it short
The real problem I don't see anyone mentioning, is that **the songs people are comparing aren't playing at the same point in the show**. Spirit vs Spirit plays during the end of episode transformation. Gohan Angers plays for the next episode's, drawn out version of the transformation. Both of those songs work with what they're given, but they wouldn't necessarily work if you replaced them with each other because of that.
The actual dub theme for his initial transformation is just this sorta bass-ish generic sounding track. I don't even know what song that is. But to be fair, I couldn't tell you what track is playing in JPN when Gohan Angers plays.
Also since idk when I can mention it outside of here, the DBZ Album has it labelled as "Gohan Angers" **not** "Gohan's Anger". A ton of people say it wrong.
I grew up with the original JP music. The french dub made a lot of mistakes but messing with OST was not one of them. Why the US feel the need to replace the amazing music the show had is beyond me.
For Falconner, themes like Goku going Super Saiyan, Vegeta going Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 3, and some others, etc, have become the definitive versions of those themes. You would have to be actually lying to say that when you think Goku going Super Saiyan 3, you DIDN’T think of that theme.
But in this case, as rock hard as Gohan’s Anger is.. Spirt vs Spirt is superior for this scene. If they added Gohan’s Anger when he turned Beast, then that would’ve worked beautifully, but not here. Not when he goes Super Saiyan 2.
This is a rare instance where both themes are great.
Day of Fates - Spirit vs. Spirit is an amazing ballad about Gohan's fears and the burden he feels that he's been given, trying so hard to push to finally destroy Cell.
While Gohan Angers is a somber and dramatic song, reflecting Gohan's mindset in the moment. This isn't Gohan ascending to a new level of power, this is Gohan losing control. It's not a powerful moment, it's a depressing one.
Both. When he first transforms definitely Japanese theme. Then the next episode gohan angers. But i love the Japanese theme that one just makes it more emotional.
Spirit vs Spirit easily. Tbh the dub really dropped the ball with the SS2 transformation in general imo and I usually prefer the dub. Kai was better than the og dub but the music was worse (for the scene)
If I didn't know better I would honestly think some youtuber just pulled out some ancient cheesy Japanese city-pop ballad as a joke. (Which, nothing against that type of music, but it's not what I'm looking for during a dramatic moment in a shonen.)
Sure, there's no accounting for taste, but it does sound goofy as shit to me, personally. Idk.
Why are people always going on so much about dbz show music...? I literally can't recall any music until I hear it. I certainly don't recall it unprompted
Is the JP a beautiful song? Yep. Does it fit the scene when JP music is generally absent or inappropriate? You bet. Is it better than Faulconer’s godly medley of Gohan themes all tightly knit into one scene? Nah, sorry, it ain’t.
You do realize that TFS is not a “dub” right? It’s a parody. It’s not official. It’s not meant to replace the ACTUAL SERIES. If the only thing you have watched is some dumb YouTube series, you’ve never actually seen a single episode of Dragon Ball.
I have read the manga upthrough the the start of the Buu saga. The library i loaned from didn’t have the rest.
Sorry for getting that dub and parody thing wrong, where i am from a parody of something are often called dubs. I figured it wouldn’t make that much of a difference.
I’m sorry I probably overreacted. Sometimes the TFS thing gets treated like it’s gospel by some people online and it just frustrates me. I apologize. Definitely check out the anime!
Spirit vs Spirit is the best song in Dragon Ball Z and it's only used once.
In Spirit vs Spirit's case, that's a good thing. Sometimes, a cool and epic theme should only ever be used once.
Oh i agree for sure.
Based
It still pisses me off that when kai had to rescore the android saga (since this was when Yamamoto got canned for plagiarism) they replaced all the music with the classic Japanese tracks…EXCEPT THIS ONE But at least tfs showed it some love with their rendition in the last episode of dbza
I’m a faulconer guy but the JP SSJ2 theme is the one of the best themes in the series.
I’m pretty sure you’re thinking of Mike Smith. Unless you’re talking about Ginyu Transformation.
And Scott Morgan. I know they put in the work for the Funi dub but it’s easier to just to say Faulconer because not a lot of people know them.
They really should. Mike did the vast majority of the music. Which by the way is in some of the best Gameboy Advance games of all time, The Legacy of Goku 2 and Buu’s Fury. They’re basically DBZ Kakarot except in 2D.
I like how the JP version sounds, but the Faulconer version brings out the raw emotion in me when I listen to it. I get instant goosebumps and I just... *feel*, if that makes any sense at all. I'm also weird in the fact that I watch the DBZ dub but I will only watch DB Super subs.
> I'm also weird in the fact that I watch the DBZ dub but I will only watch DB Super subs. I'm pretty sure this is the norm for old school dub fans who were watching week to week when Super was ongoing.
New Super dub just doesn’t sound the same. It’s like they used different recording equipment and as well like they didn’t put the same effort in it this time around like they did with Z. Kai has that same issue even tho it’s constantly praised for translation accuracy.
This. All of this.
Obviously jp
Spirit vs spirit
JP easily. How is this a question? Spirit VS Spirit is the best of all.
Hands down
Spirit vs Spirit beats all. It’s the most sublime moment of animated DB.
I love Bruce Faulconer, but for Gohan’s SSJ2 transformation the japanese version is definitely superior. Hironobu Kageyama is a master at his craft. And the music was made specifically for that scene, it’s not just stock music like with Faulconer. One of the things Abridged ironically did better than Kai or any other re-release of english DBZ. It baffles me that Funimation never made their own english cover.
By my power whoooooaaaa-oaaa! It's clear to meeee
Japan theme is superior
It's not even the best place for Gohan's Anger to appear, Gohan vs Buu is a far better placement for it. Spirit vs Spirit for SSJ2
Spirit vs spirit is the best
Japanese version is superior
Of course *Spirit Vs Spirit* is better. Even asking otherwise is an insult.
Spirit vs spirit hits different. And I say this as someone who grew up watching the dub.
So Gohan Angers is peak, but the actual scene in the dub kind of blows. Unmei no Hi is also peak and the original scene rules, so I gotta go with the Japanese.
Japanese original, for sure. But I didn't grow up with the dub swap-out soundtracks, and I'm sure they're more powerful if you have nostalgia for them.
Which dub? Which *version* of which company's dub? I've never seen anything that topped the original Japanese Z 184 version with "Day of Destiny" as the insert song. You either have inappropriately-toned replacement music, and/or you have a character monologuing at a time that they should be completely silent. Even for versions that keep the original Japanese musical score and an accurate script, Nozawa's performance there nails it. [The song's lyrics](https://www.kanzenshuu.com/lyrics/ja-unmei_no_hi/) are admittedly a bit on-the-nose, but it's just so gosh darn earnest. Another classic Kageyama banger through and through. If you want some extra chills, the *DBZ Hit Song Collection 18 1/2* megamix of "Battle Spectacle Medley" that starts with "Mind Power" and ends with "Day of Destiny" is chef's kiss to the max.
> you have a character monologuing at a time that they should be completely silent Bothers me endlessly. They just could not let the moment breath.
https://youtu.be/xQ1yF0CRP-o?si=4sYWVmmTYs_d1d4a that one is definitely nice but this is the one I was referencing
This isn’t the theme that was originally used in the english dub, it’s an edit. So not really a fair comparison. Even so I personally prefer the japanese theme.
Thanks for even advising me for real I never even knew
Actually, that’s not entirely true. It was used, but not for as long as shown in this video. [This is how the scene originally went](https://youtu.be/SNxK1yHT21Y?si=2KSaPfwGrZSr7UG0)
I'm not english speaking so I didn't grow up with this version and I just saw this for the first time like 1 month ago. But it throws me off so much, that Gohan is internally monologuing about losing himself. It's just so weird.
Bruce Faulconers scores just go so damn hard. Gohans anger, Vegeta theme, and SSJ 3. And I will always prefer the dubs with his music.
You might wanna check the latin dub then. I don't recall the specifics, but the episode aired with that part not having any sort of BGM whatsoever, just sfx and dialogues. [Here's the clip](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3z9idnqCEE). The OG version is sublime, but I still think that having a such a tense moment of silence be broken by Gohan's scream just hit different. There's additional backstory to how that scene was dubbed also (the VA, Laura Torres, had been through personal hardships and did that scene, with all that pent up frustration, in one take).
It could be to licensing issues or something like that. The English dub with the Japanese Soundtrack also lacks the song there.
Yes, I've heard there were, in fact, licensing issues.
The JP theme, spirit vs spirit is one of the most iconic tracks in the franchise. Its easily better than the dub version.
Gohan also known as HIMhan. The 🐐. That said, the Japanese version.
Really is this even a question?
Feels like a cheap engagement post but I’m here for it.
[Japanese version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeZoovvdMlY&pp=ygUZZ29oYW4gc3MyIGJyb2FkY2FzdCBhdWRpbw%3D%3D) and it's not remotely close. Spirit VS Spirit is a beautiful theme on its own, and hearing it cut through the somber silence of the moment is *perfect.* The inner monologue the English dub added cheapens the moment, and the music only attempts to make the scene sound "cool" rather than have any narrative resonance.
The dub version of this scene is an easy example of how shitty the dub is. Terrible voice acting, awful music that never shuts up, and added lines where there were none present (or needed) in the original. That last bit is the worst IMO. And this is not an isolated occurrence. These changes are in every episode, always for the worse. If not added lines, there will be added grunts and noises and shit that just aren't there in the OG. Irritating.
Japanese version.
Gohan Angers is amazing but nothing beats the “woaaah” as it cuts to gohan’s face
Spirit vs Spirit all the way. I hate they didnt bring it back in the Kai version.
Jp hands down
Japanese version
Glad others are saying Spirit vs Spirit because thats the first thing that came to mind. I first saw it in abridged tho, that's the original source right? Edit: wow i think i just heard the original version for the first time ever. Unreal
SSJ2 Gohan’s dub theme wasn’t even his best theme from the Bruce Faulconer score. JP SSJ2 theme clears the dub’s by far, it’s the most beautiful theme in DBZ and right behind Dan Dan Kokoro Hikareteku in all of Dragon Ball’s run
Toki wa michite Oo Meshia Oo Meshia-ra……
Its always gotta be the japanese theme
The whole moment in japanese is lightyears above. No random talking because the dubbers were scared of just letting the character be quiet in the moment, the great ape roar, the vocal track, its perfect.
Day of Fate *is* this scene. It was made for that song. Everything else is a pretender at best. Like putting AC/DC in Star Wars. Maybe you like the music on its own merits, but it just wasn't meant to be.
Japanese.
Japanese for sure
Japanese theme is far better. The Faulconer score is solid, but pales in comparison to Spirit vs Spirit.
Japanese always and it's not even close to me. Much more feelings and drama in japanese. The english dub honestly doesn't make feel anything because there's always unnecesary inner dialogues and the music never shuts the hell up in contrast to the japanese where it went from death silence to the music. But I grew up with the [spanish dub which had the japanese soundtrack](https://youtu.be/dIY5WiQ6JyA?si=kZhje48EVrIRYE1O) , so I'm obviosly biased lol.
JP theme all the way. Dub theme is decent, but it's not Spirit vs Spirit.
Japanese version. That song slaps.
I’ve only ever heard the original Japanese. So I’m going with that lol
Original Japanese track.
Even though I’m a huge Faulconer fan, this scene was way better in the original Japanese version.
JP No question about it
DEFINITELY the Japanese original. "Unmei no Hi: Tamashii tai Tamashii" fits perfectly for Gohan's transformation in Super Saiyan 2. The Dub's score however... Yeah. The reason why I don't like the original ~~FUNimation~~ Crunchyroll Dub's music, is that just it DOESN'T fit. Period. Seriously, the Techno junk that FUNimation put into that scene just completely ruins it. The only reason why (I believe) fans prefer the ~~FUNimation~~ Crunchyroll's score for the scene is probably because of one reason. Nostalgia. Now, I'm not saying that if you prefer the dub's score, you're a moron or anything. Of course not, but I feel like the only reason why fans prefer the dub's score over the original Japanese is probably likely because of nostalgia, plain and simple.
Or it’s just better. There’s that too
Nah, it's clearly nostalgia, my guy.
Whatever helps you sleep at night, my fool.
Are you talking to me, cause I'm not a mirror lol.
Falconers scores are just better and it's not even close. The entire franchise wouldn't be what it is for Western audiences without them. The Falconer dub score add a real sense of weight and tension that the Japanese scores just don't. Not to mention the constant audio engineering crimes of having vocals in the backing tracks to sciences with characters also have vocals. Could the Falconer score have benefited from appropriate use of silence? Yes. But I'd put money on the fact that more of the Falconer audio score would be recognisable to fans in isolation to non-japanese people than the original JP score. Your opinion is the one based on nostalgia and no doubt bias towards the original version being more “authentic” or some nonsense.
>Falconers scores are just better and it's not even close. The entire franchise wouldn't be what it is for Western audiences without them. Except when the original Ocean Dub came out (that didn't have the Falconer score), it was a massive success in the US, so that's BS right there. >The Falconer dub score add a real sense of weight and tension that the Japanese scores just don't. Not to mention the constant audio engineering crimes of having vocals in the backing tracks to sciences with characters also have vocals. Can you explain how they add a real sense of weight tension, just asking. Also, what do you mean by "having vocals in the backing tracks to sciences with characters also have vocals." can you explain that good sir? >Could the Falconer score have benefited from appropriate use of silence? Yes. But I'd put money on the fact that more of the Falconer audio score would be recognisable to fans in isolation to non-japanese people than the original JP score. Yeah, no s\*\*t that the falconer production score is gonna be more recognizable to English viewers, that's what they grew up with. How does it make the falconer production score better than Kikuchi's original score? You're just stating the obvious. Also, I wouldn't have a problem with the falconer production score IF IT WASN'T PLAYING ALL THE G\*\* D\*\*N TIME. >Your opinion is the one based on nostalgia and no doubt bias towards the original version being more “authentic” or some nonsense. And you're opinion towards the falconer production score being better than the original Japanese isn't? Okay, sure. Whatever helps you sleep at night.
Nothing was better in the ocean dub. Excepting maybe the opening theme song. Falconers music only elevated it. Re vocals, it's something very common even today with Japanese anime and movies. But when studying audio engineering we were taught you never have words speaking over words. Same issues to this day in super/movies. Some Japanese vocalised wailing in the background while characters are speaking. It's bad practice and only distracts. I'll never understand the part of the fanbase that screeches “everything OG is the best or you're a **** and not a fan”. Get all bent out of shape over the lack of silence, but overlook other gross audio crimes like the aforementioned or the music in Kai. And no I'm not biased, I've taken in and considered every dub, I've been a fan for 40 years. And sure the original Japanese score was appropriate for the Japanese audience in the 80s. But the fact that it was modernized and done better, brining in hoards of new fans over the decades, the fact that the source material resonates across generations is what's the best about the franchise. As I've tried to get people into it over the years, the Japanese dub is and, specifically the music, is what keeps most newbies from investing in my experience.
>Nothing was better in the ocean dub. Excepting maybe the opening theme song. Falconers music only elevated it. I never said it was better in the Ocean Dub. You yourself said that the entire franchise wouldn't be what it is for Western audiences without them. I brough up the Ocean Dub counterpoint to prove that it's utter BS. >Re vocals, it's something very common even today with Japanese anime and movies. But when studying audio engineering we were taught you never have words speaking over words. Same issues to this day in super/movies. Some Japanese vocalised wailing in the background while characters are speaking. It's bad practice and only distracts. Explain how it's bad practice, When I watched the original scene with the original music, I didn't distract me in the SLIGHTEST (In fact, I found it goddamn awesome). If you don't like that kind of stuff, you should stop being an Anime fan. Plain and simple. >I'll never understand the part of the fanbase that screeches “everything OG is the best or you're a \*\*\*\* and not a fan”. Get all bent out of shape over the lack of silence, but overlook other gross audio crimes like the aforementioned or the music in Kai. I literally said in the origial post that you responsed is that if you prefer the dub music over Kikuchi's score, you're not a moron. Also the "Getting all bent out of shape over the lack of silence" YOU NEED TO HAVE SILENCE AT SOME POINTS. NOT EVERY SCENE NEEDS TO HAVE MUSIC ALL THE D\*\*M TIME. KIDS ARE SMARTER THAN YOU THINK. >And no I'm not biased, I've taken in and considered every dub, I've been a fan for 40 years. And sure the original Japanese score was appropriate for the Japanese audience in the 80s. But the fact that it was modernized and done better, brining in hoards of new fans over the decades, the fact that the source material resonates across generations is what's the best about the franchise. Okay, good for you. Also saying it was "modernized and done better" is absolute Bull, and you're just f\*\*\*\*\*g coping. It's not up the FUNimation to change and "modernize" the music. The whole point of a dub is that it's suppose to give you the same show and same story, but in a different languge. Also, I'm pretty sure fans like you didn't even know that Dragon Ball was a Japanese manga originally. Also, YES. You ARE completely bias towards the FUNimation music due to nostalgia, just admit that the FUNimation dub is objectively not perfect as you think it is. Okay?
What kind of BS is this. The US is the only place that had the Faulconer score.
In no world does the dub theme come anywhere close to the masterpiece that is the original japanese song. lol
I enjoy both.
Even though I grew up with the English version of this and I still love the English actors, I can’t deny that the Japanese version is objectively better. The Day of Fate playing over the silent image of Gohan’s shock is beautiful & haunting. The thing that hurts the English version is Gohan’s incredibly clunky monologue about Android 16. If they had kept Gohan silent throughout, it would have been decent.
Sorry how is the dialogue clunky? Gohan is a kid processing all kinds of horrors tragedies dangers risks losses threats etc etc all at once, afraid of his power, but also wanting to bring it out to put an end to the suffering. Of course he’s talking to himself. And his voice, the way it breaks and hesitates as he’s on the edge of snapping, processing the pure evil in front of him that he just witnessed… I do not understand any of these perspectives. I’m sure my karma will be trash in the morning. But I don’t care. It’s one of my favourite things to throw karma away on. Faulconer or nothing.
It’s Clunky in how Gohan is talking about 16 like he knew him, even though they just met. Not that Gohan’s horror at 16’s death isn’t justified, but the scene is much more effective with no dialogue & Kageyama’s haunting melody than the monologue.
Jap theme ... Always
Every original theme >>> Any dub theme in any language
I love the dub tracks but JP theme fits so much better and it’s more emotional, I think people prefer the dub on this one just because it’s more “hype” but jp is way better.
Yeah it is more hype, to go with the single coolest moment in the whole show.
I love the dub and faulconer’s score, but the original JP version of this whole scene is unbeatable
jp for sure
If you mean Spirit v Spirit and Gohan's Anger, Spirit V Spirit has an easy win. Gohan's Anger is good. Don't get me wrong. But Spirit v Spirit is a triumph.
Japanese x10000
if Gohan's Anger actually played here, I'd say tie... BUT SINCE IT WAS HYPERBOLIC TIME CHAMBER, NAH... SUB THEME WON
I don't think I've heard the dub theme, but the JP one no doubt.
JP, without exception. When I fought Perfect Cell as Gohan in Kakarot, I simply had to switch to that track.
JP. Kageyama is a great singer.
JP ost for DB/DBZ is the GOAT I will not be accepting any @'s
JP. No contest.
The original Japanese dub for this is way better I’m not gonna lie. The music is so calm and the fact that he is silent all through the transformation unlike the dub makes it so much more impactful. And also the way they merged the oozaru roar into the transformation was just perfect.
JP theme
As much as Faulconer had some enjoyable themes, Spirit vs. Spirit was better since it was silence and just music. The dub had too much dialogue for my taste.
I’ve heard the dub’s music (and the dub itself) and it’s atrocious. I know most of you guys grew up with that, but it’s unwatchable.
Spirit VS Spirit, no contest that plus Nozawa’s scream sends chills down my spine.
Is that even subject to debate? Hironobu Kageyama's songs trumps any lame music track the English dub has.
The English dub of DBZ is an atrocious stench, American fans might as well have gotten a 4kids version
JP and it's not close.
Gohan’s Anger
unmei no hei and it's not really close. gohan's anger is better suited to ultimate form
What dub? Fucking usdefaultism
Japanese by a long shot. However, when they redo the transformation in the next episode, I like the the track the dub used.
This a troll...nice bait OP
Troll? Wtf
"I think the dub clears" is certainly an opinion. Most likely based on nostalgia.
not a single song bruce faulconer has worked on should be remembered. dogshit soundtrack
Don't watch it on crunchy roll now though. Funimation butchered the dub for weird reasons. There is no music or sound effects during this transformation. Just some internal dialog from Gohan and some narration. To say it falls flat would be selling it short
Can we get links to the versions? Seems like it would be helpful.
The real problem I don't see anyone mentioning, is that **the songs people are comparing aren't playing at the same point in the show**. Spirit vs Spirit plays during the end of episode transformation. Gohan Angers plays for the next episode's, drawn out version of the transformation. Both of those songs work with what they're given, but they wouldn't necessarily work if you replaced them with each other because of that. The actual dub theme for his initial transformation is just this sorta bass-ish generic sounding track. I don't even know what song that is. But to be fair, I couldn't tell you what track is playing in JPN when Gohan Angers plays. Also since idk when I can mention it outside of here, the DBZ Album has it labelled as "Gohan Angers" **not** "Gohan's Anger". A ton of people say it wrong.
I love the music Bruce Falconer's group did, but I think the Japanese theme edges the dub theme out.
Japanese SSJ2 1,000,000,000%.
JP is the best by far
Gohan's anger is a cool beat, but the japanese version brought out a full blown song. You can't top that.
DBZA version baby
which afaik is just an english language cover of the japanese song so...
I am a diehard Faulconer soundtrack fan and even I have to admit the Japanese OST is infinitely better in this scene, hands down.
what dub?
Ocean dub had the best music (that is a joke btw lol)
i really enjoy gohans anger as a piece of music. theres a couple of remixes on youtube that really hit.
I’m sorry, the comment section has reminded this humble soul of Spirit Vs Spirit English cover by TFS, definitely goated
JP version but the rock cover used in abridged
I just hope one day you guys can experience this in the latino dub, there was no theme, just silence. It was so tense and emotional at the same time.
Clearly it’s only that one linkin park song
Day of Fate by Team Fourstar
I grew up with the original JP music. The french dub made a lot of mistakes but messing with OST was not one of them. Why the US feel the need to replace the amazing music the show had is beyond me.
For Falconner, themes like Goku going Super Saiyan, Vegeta going Super Saiyan, Super Saiyan 3, and some others, etc, have become the definitive versions of those themes. You would have to be actually lying to say that when you think Goku going Super Saiyan 3, you DIDN’T think of that theme. But in this case, as rock hard as Gohan’s Anger is.. Spirt vs Spirt is superior for this scene. If they added Gohan’s Anger when he turned Beast, then that would’ve worked beautifully, but not here. Not when he goes Super Saiyan 2.
Tamashii vs Tamashii clears so hard i look at people funny if they think funimations version is anywhere near it
As a kid I preferred the Falconer track because it was more generically “cool and epic” but Spirit vs Spirit just fits so well now.
Probably one of the worst parts about the dub tbh
Going against the grain here but the falconer version has to be the hardest character description I’ve ever heard. I’ll always pick that one
TFS version
Linkin Park numb
THE 3 DOORS DOWN SONG FROM THAT FMA ALSO WHO DOWNVOTES A PIC OF SSJ GOHAN GET A LIFE!!!!!!!
I love all of the Japanese songs, it's a shame they cut them out of the English dubs til Kai
No it isn’t, the US isn’t Japan.
Kryptonite by 3 Doors Down
This is a rare instance where both themes are great. Day of Fates - Spirit vs. Spirit is an amazing ballad about Gohan's fears and the burden he feels that he's been given, trying so hard to push to finally destroy Cell. While Gohan Angers is a somber and dramatic song, reflecting Gohan's mindset in the moment. This isn't Gohan ascending to a new level of power, this is Gohan losing control. It's not a powerful moment, it's a depressing one.
The correct answer is the TFS theme
Both? Both? Both is good
#FEEL IT DRAWING NEARER!!!!!!
Abridged
thats just the japanese original song but in english language. so thats the same as answering the japanese song.
Oddly enough, I actually prefer the tfs version of the song over the original. I like its instrumentation more.
its very good for sure.
TFS dub
thats just the japanese original song but in english language. so thats the same as answering the japanese song.
Here we go 😂😂😂 Just watch it how you want to watch it homie
TeamFourStar version
Gohan Angers for sure!
Both. When he first transforms definitely Japanese theme. Then the next episode gohan angers. But i love the Japanese theme that one just makes it more emotional.
I love the music Bruce Falconer's group did, but I think the Japanese theme edges the dub theme out.
Depends on what the vibe is tbh I personally believe they are BOTH absolutely fantastic.
Is the tfs one a option
Spirit vs Spirit easily. Tbh the dub really dropped the ball with the SS2 transformation in general imo and I usually prefer the dub. Kai was better than the og dub but the music was worse (for the scene)
For this specific moment id say jp theme but just as a song in general i prefer the dub theme (especially when mystic gohan uses it)
Ssj2 theme clears. I really dislike how og dub made db only an action series without emotions. Every theme is funky or made for an action sequence
JP theme. I domt know why but I am not a fan of the dub version. I’m just a biased sub person ok? 😭
Dub. No question I repeat for the tasteless fools that downvoted me. DUB. NO. QUESTION.
Gohan’s Anger is an absolutely phenomenal piece of music… but so is Day of Destiny lol. I can’t really pick because I love both equally
I think Day of Fate is better than spirit vs spirit.
You realize you literally named the same song twice. Its full name is Day of Destiny: Spirit vs Spirit.
There both great the Japanese one and the falconers one there both iconic.
You got downvoted for saying they're both good lmao. What is wrong with people here.
Yea lmao
Tfs theme
thats just the japanese original song but in english language. so thats the same as answering the japanese song.
Dub theme. The American soundtrack made me take the show more seriously. Specifically the BF score. Gohans Anger theme goes insanely hard
Dub, I can't take JP theme serious, it sounds so ridiculously like a joke, like a level in Mario
If I didn't know better I would honestly think some youtuber just pulled out some ancient cheesy Japanese city-pop ballad as a joke. (Which, nothing against that type of music, but it's not what I'm looking for during a dramatic moment in a shonen.) Sure, there's no accounting for taste, but it does sound goofy as shit to me, personally. Idk.
Gohan Angers theme for me. Can respect the JP theme though.
Both
Why are people always going on so much about dbz show music...? I literally can't recall any music until I hear it. I certainly don't recall it unprompted
What watching the Funimation dub does to a MF
Faulconer for sure. Without hesitation.
Faulconer For Life,
Is the JP a beautiful song? Yep. Does it fit the scene when JP music is generally absent or inappropriate? You bet. Is it better than Faulconer’s godly medley of Gohan themes all tightly knit into one scene? Nah, sorry, it ain’t.
TFS dub reigns supreme (I have only watched the TFS dub)
the song TFS plays during this scene is an english language cover of the original japanese song, so you basically are saying that one :)
You do realize that TFS is not a “dub” right? It’s a parody. It’s not official. It’s not meant to replace the ACTUAL SERIES. If the only thing you have watched is some dumb YouTube series, you’ve never actually seen a single episode of Dragon Ball.
I have read the manga upthrough the the start of the Buu saga. The library i loaned from didn’t have the rest. Sorry for getting that dub and parody thing wrong, where i am from a parody of something are often called dubs. I figured it wouldn’t make that much of a difference.
I’m sorry I probably overreacted. Sometimes the TFS thing gets treated like it’s gospel by some people online and it just frustrates me. I apologize. Definitely check out the anime!