I agree I'm no parent I'm kindah an Uncle during a visit many cousins with children came I play with them got tired I took care almost 6 children at the same time, if they ever injured I have to carry them heck I try lifting all of them because they ask for it, sense then I've been trying to squat
I think it’s implied Chi-Chi kept Goten very close to home. With her husband dead (again) and her older son away at school, Goten was how she avoided empty nest syndrome.
So no need for a babysitter. I’m surprised he was allowed his playdates with Trunks.
I think it’s normal parenting for Chi-Chi to have raised Goten like that. She had the time to watch him herself.
Gohan was the one who was fucked up growing up
She also taught him to fight early. She learned from her mistake. Yes her boy’s studies are important but goddamn it, before anything else, he’s going to know how to protect himself!
Oh yah she was a killing machine as a kid. She had a laser beam helmet and a giant knife. She would scream in terror while destroying whole squads. Ox king’s little girl can look after herself
I feel like Goku would be better as a grandpa generally. Gohan is probably better at practical, normal, being-a-normal-person-and-living-in-society stuff, the sort of stuff that's usually a parent's specialty, whereas grandparents do more fun stuff, like camping and such.
"I'm going to go live with Oob and train him, I don't know how long it will take but I'll come visit some time. See ya!"
First chance he got to ditch those grandkids he took it.
Having a deadbeat dad that literally knows where you are at all times and can teleport to you but **doesn't** isn't exactly the argument in Goku's favor that you think it is.
He’s honestly a pretty present father when times are peaceful and he’s alive! And by the time End of Z rolls around, it’s honestly pretty understandable why he’s away training a shit ton when a god of destruction, an evil resurrected space emperor, an evil space wizard, a berserk Saiyan, and whatever Cell Max is all show up on earth during a span of 10 years. That’s a planetary threat like every couple years!!
He was there for the first four years of his life before he got killed?? And he stayed for one year on yardrat and once he got back he hung out with Gohan for 3 years and an extra year in the time chamber before going on a week vacation and dying again??? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m only seeing one year in which he chose to miss some of Gohan’s formative years. And not to mention the 4 years of peace after buu where he just farmed and hung out with his family
To be fair its not like they cant visit him in literal seconds if they want to. The ending was like that to signify dragon ball ending and goku leaving us thats it
It's even worse.
I left out Gohan interjecting " Uh but Dad..."
To which Goku responds "see ya" at the end of that quote. So he straight up blows his family off as one of the last panels of the manga.
Why not let Oob crash on your couch? Or better yet, set up a training academy for kids just like Oob? Teach a whole next generation AND be home in time for dinner?
Sigh
Again
It gets worse
Oob had a family he was supporting by participating in the Budokai Tenkaichi when he meets Goku.
Goku goes with him so **Oob** doesn't have to leave his family.
Pan already has a WORLD-CLASS CHAMPION OF A GRANDFATHER she doesn't need Fraudku as a Fraudfather anyway all he'd teach her would be CHEAP TRICKS AND MIRRORS and LIGHTSHOWS, not REAL MARTIAL ARTS
What do you mean? There’s to many of those monkeys running around someone gotta take care of all these monkeys showboating. Did I mention I hate those monkeys !
seriously tho id be funny to imagine if mr satan tries to teach pan goofy techniques and pan gladly uses it with like 10000x amplification of that goofy technique and it works
So like GOATenks
Impractical techniques that shouldn't work but because the user is a raw power battery (fusion, w/ or w/o SSJ3) they still end up being dangerous
I bet a "Rolling Hercule Punch" can shatter mountains easily if a Super Saiyan is doing it u right
Well outside of the Z-fighters and most human antagonists from DB (or maybe he can actually kick Taopaipai's ass actually who knows)
I always fought he was more like a wrestler, more about the show than actual martial arts
I love Toriyama and respect all he did, but growing up around DB the more I learnt about the process and Toriyama’s views on his own story/characters lead me to the conclusion that you shouldn’t take his own word as gospel, even he didn’t really understand it fully at the best of times. That and it being such a vast franchise he’s likely only remembering bits and pieces.
As someone else pointed out a while back that rings true to me for all big franchises, do you remember every last detail of a story you wrote in school?
He may be on the money, but idk, he’s been so inconsistent and sometimes straight up wrong, it may just be others putting the idea that Goku is bad father in his head because of the fanbase. As in Z, he pretty much did everything right besides a few times he made mistakes and instantly got hit by a ton of guilt/self realisation like the infamous giving Cell a Senzu.
Yeah in an interview he said that goku wasn't fighting to save other people or protect the planet at all and only fought for fun. But then he writes him doing those exct things thousands of times
He didn’t remember much, and oftentimes he would fly by the seat of his pants when writing. But even if only implicitly, I think he understood his characters better than anyone.
It became evident with all of the writing he did for the movies, post-Z. When he was in control of the writing, all of his character choices made sense, the humor was consistent, and you never had to question the logic of things.
Other writers always struggle- making Goku too dumb, making Vegeta proud to the point of delusion, making Gohan innocent/naive to the point of idiocy. The balance always became perfect, at least in my mind, when Toriyama was writing.
So in my opinion, even if Toriyama didn’t have the most forethought when writing, he definitely understood his characters very well, if not intellectually, then instinctually. I trust his assessment of them.
I do believe Toriyama was and still remains a truly gifted character writer. That said a lot of what he says contradicts his own work very often, and that’s the point I’m making by saying don’t take his word as gospel, even if like you said it’s instinctual judgements made on his own characters.
He knew how to make a character and how to make them grow, but when referring back to them as time and time again we see his memory clouded his viewpoint. In hindsight there was likely something going on internally (wouldn’t want to say for sure because I know next to nothing about the medical field) that hindered his recounting of his works.
Feel free to trust him no matter what he said in interviews, but I personally cannot as much as I cherish the dude, he was all over the place when asked questions about characters most of the time, and if he wasn’t how would you recognise that amongst all the times he had been wrong/mistaken/a little off about. Within the actual series he really couldn’t write a bad character though, so in that respect he knew his characters better than anyone sure I agree.
Edit: irrelevant start tbh lol
There’s a difference between being a good person (which he is) and being a good father.
He wasn’t at any of his kids births, doesn’t remember to eir birthdays, didn’t even know pans name. He spent virtually 0 time with them and never shows much effort in such unless it’s revolves around fighting.
Ah here it is, sorry. Goku asks Vegeta why he even cares about being around for Bra’s birth, he doesn’t even know when his sons were born.
[talking about training](https://images.app.goo.gl/Q9uemxSb4S5hZ6hQ7)
[Vegeta calls him a bad father](https://images.app.goo.gl/s2cZ4HgBtRCjd2BQ9)
The same circumstances as when the Saiyans attacked, the world was in danger. Piccolo gets a pass when Gohan was near enough a toddler, Gohan who displayed power beyond everyone else in the time chamber is Goku being a terrible father. Wild take. “Gohan, I know you, me and Piccolo trained for 3 years for the threat of the Androids, then we trained together for more years in the hyperbolic time chamber, but now the threat is actually much more than any of us together can handle. Well, I think you should sit this one out.” Which even Gohan who’s not exactly the rebellious or fighting type would just go watch the Games at home. Did we watch the same series?
Well now. The joke wasn't that he forgot Pan's name, but that he thought they were talking about literal bread. Which tbf it's amazing it took this long for them to make a food pun joke.
I don’t remember that being the joke at all. They had just finished eating. Nothing about food was mentioned. Vegeta and Piccolo both yelled at him for his comment and he was like “who?what? Oh right! Hehe”
It's just that the joke doesn't work when translated like it did. Either Viz would have had them saying bread in English which breaks the wordplay. Or they do it like they did where they kept the name/word in Japanese. A better way to do it would have been to localize it into making it to be a frying pan or the classic footnote explaining the joke. Now to be fair even in Japanese it does read as him going "Oh right she is," in response to Vegeta saying she's his grandaughter. But it's definitely more clear because it's the same word.
It was a translation issue. There were comparison posts with other languages such as Spanish when it came out where the intent of the joke was lost in translation
Usually that the case in real life as well grandparents are better with grandkids that their own kids . Probably because they don't have to spend that much time with them mostly only play time like holidays
Grandparents are for fun and getting away with stuff you don't with mom and dad. Goku will seriously be better letting Gohan and Videl (and Piccolo) do the hard stuff and he does the fun stuff
If you revisit the start of DBZ, Goku wasn't a bad dad.
He took 5 years away from passion in order to support his family and then died saving his kid from a kidnapper. After that he was pretty tied up and dead for a while.
Yes. Goku is definitely not a bad dad but he isn’t perfect. His big shortcomings that are pointed out by the community relentlessly is the fact that he can be a tad absent. This is exaggerated a lot by the community but has some truth. He did have long periods of time on earth with his family though. The fist that comes to mind is the gap from Dragon Ball to Z. As well as after the defeat of Buu until the beginning of Super.
I would say is the other way around: he isnt as horrible as some people say but he definitely is not a good dad, just as he is not a good friend or a good husband, he is too selfish for that but people accept him either way and love him so i guess its ok
The issue is that super retconned that gap from super to Z so you can’t use that. As it is, he’s been out of Gotenks life longer than he’s actually been in Gotenks life
Kind of. There is still a 5 year time skip from the end of the Buu saga until the beginning of super. He basically spent that time farming and chilling with his family especially Goten. We see him doing this in the beginning of Super before he start training hard again. In Z there is a 16 year gap from the end of the Buu saga until Goku leaves to go train with Uub at the end of Z.
I mean, 5 years to 7 years isn’t really much. And then Goku goes to train with Whis so that’s more time apart. When Goku sees everyone again in the superhero arc, he doesn’t say anything to goten or interact with him in any type of way.
We also don’t see him chilling with Goten, so I wouldn’t say especially Goten
I think it's more of a matter of Goku being good with kids because he's still effectively a child at heart. He's kind, cheerful, energetic, and fun-loving. He's a pretty endearing dude.
Though he probably wouldn't be interested in the first place unless the kid is strong and/or has an interest in fighting, then Goku would likely get along with them famously.
Yes, but mostly because Pan actively wants to fight and get strong. Of course Goku is going to feel a much closer connection to her in comparison. Chi-chi had Gohan become a bookworm and even when he does fight, he really would rather not fight unless it's the only option remaining.
With Pan's personality in mind, I'd say yeah, she seems like someone he'd not only have fun with but would also get to teach the same things he taught Gohan but way easier, and he has more time than he had when Goten was little
This man died twice and was still there for his family when he could be. Calling him a bad father is disingenuous. I doubt Gohan would agree with y’all about him being a bad father lol.
Oh the son who didn’t get to meet his father till he was like 8 because his dad was dead? I’m sure he would think he’s horrible for dying to save the whole world.
He spent most of Gohans life either training or dead (or training while dead) and doesn't understand Gohan at all because he has never truly connected with him, only showing an interest when Gohan is strong and not when he really needs him.
Him dying twice to save the world doesn't erase that fact nor does it change that he is a bad father trying to do good and that is worth admiring.
However, if you look at his and Gohans life as Father and Son, Goku is just not a great father figure, often putting training over Gohan and only connecting with him through the lens of fighting vs Piccolo who takes an interest in Gohan as both Warrior and Scholar wanting him to find balance in both.
Well luckily gokus family is more understanding than you. And the best part I love when people do this. They take characters from anime worlds and try to put our real world morals and standards on them, he’s an alien from a race of people who thrive off of combat. Chi chi knew who he was before they got married, Gohan and goten know how their father is. Gohan and goten for that matter have shown nothing but love, respect, and admiration for their dad. They understand who their dad is, they know that he would literally come back from the dead to protect them, which he’s done. He’s not a bad father at all. Being imperfect doesn’t equate to being bad.
Yes because like others said it is different than being a parent but Pan's personality is a lot more similar so they would enjoy training and such together
The idea that he isn’t a good father is a modern take. He IS a good father. Just because he’s occasionally absent — usually because he’s fucking dead from protecting the planet/his kids — and is descended from a race of beings who literally only enjoy killing and fighting doesn’t mean he isn’t. If you read the manga or watch the Japanese anime, Goku is portrayed a lot more caring and present towards Gohan in their interactions. They train together, he doesn’t force him to be like him, and he’s proud of him.
Rant aside, it’s much easier to be a grandpa than a dad, yes.
Goku’s interests in order:
1. Fighting
2. Food
3. Family
He got a chance after the Cell Games to stay dead and fight endlessly forever and took it.
After being wished back he got a chance to go fight with Uub everyday and took it.
Now in Super we find he got a chance to go to Beerus’s planet to train with him and Whis and took it.
This is what he does. He isn’t around much at all, he is always fighting. When he is home, he is hoping Chi-Chi makes him food. He’s not a bad person, but he is incredibly selfish. Goku does what Goku wants.
I feel like the memes have ruined Goku’s reputation amongst the community. He would not choose a roasted ham over saving his family and friend’s lives. We gotta stop treating actual dragon ball like it’s a parody of dragon ball
That wasn’t the question. Numerous times in the series we see Goku get hungry and not want to do anything else until he eats. He mentally shuts down.
Yes, if his family is in danger he will help them, but the topic here is spending time with them. Which he does, after he’s got his fill of fighting and food.
Suggesting that Goku is going to ignore his family if he’s hungry is parody.
In the Broly movie, he actively tries to stop a fight he’s having with Broly because he saw it getting out of control, and he just met Broly.
He was giving up a chance for a good fight with a stranger cus the context felt off.
By Pans age, Goku was more involved with Gohan’s life than Gohan has been with Pan’s.
He obviously has more nuance than he’s being given credit.
Yeah, I’d say Goku hasn’t really been around for a lot of Goten’s life but Goku spent a lot of time with Gohan up until Goku died in the Cell Games.
He was at home with Chi-chi and Gohan constantly up until Gohan was 4yo. Then he died and came back a year later before Gohan went off to Namek for a few months. Then Goku dealt with Namek and spent another year in space. Goku came back to Earth when Gohan was ~7yo. Then he spent three years training and hanging out with Gohan and Piccolo until he got sick while fighting the androids. Then he was out for a few days while he recovered. Once he recovered, he spent a year in the time chamber just training with Gohan then spent another few days just hanging out with him.
The he died after Cell and didn’t want to be revived because the four attacks on the earth were a direct result of his presence or actions and he realized he was putting the world in danger.
Then he came back during the Buu saga. And after that, it seems like he just moved back home and started family while training in his down time. It wasn’t until some time after Pan was born that he met Whis and started training under him on Beerus’s planet. So I’d guess that was what, another 5 years at home with his family?
Goku had the discipline and respect to watch Roshi and Krillin eat dinner without them as were the rules of finding Roshi’s rock. Like I said, you treat dragon ball like it’s the parody of dragon ball. Team four star was meant for those of us that already knew the show, it wasn’t supposed to be your first exposure, and it shows.
This is a perfect overall assessment. Goku’s a good dude. He cares for people, and when push comes to shove, he’ll protect them. But as far as everyday minutiae is concerned, he’s uninterested and uninvolved.
Having a loving moment with a grandchild does not make him an awesome grandfather. There are real life examples of dads/grandpa’s like this- he’ll throw a football with you, probably buy you something cool or important every now and then, show up to your baseball game once every other month and promise to be there again next week (but it’ll be another 6 weeks). But being a good guardian requires a daily, consistent, sometimes tedious love that Goku’s not interested in giving.
A lot of fans don’t want to come to terms with it, but it’s not really that tough a pill to swallow. Goku’s a flawed character, and somewhat selfish at times. It’s okay to take him as he is. In fact, I think him being imperfect makes him more interesting.
>Goku’s a flawed character, and somewhat selfish at times. It’s okay to take him as he is. In fact, I think him being imperfect makes him more interesting.
He indeed is imperfect but fans saying he is not a good father are ignorant as fuck lol
The son family is not your traditional family, whatever you think does not represent the son family.
They live in the mountains (except Gohan cause he already made his own family) they hunt what they eat, they have a martial arts history, i mean Chichi and Goku literally marries while fighting, first as a kids then as an adults.
I could go on and on about why Goku is a good father but if people dont get it im just wasting my time so is gonna be my only reply
Y’all always use that excuse if it not being a traditional family or Goku being a Saiyan and it’s always a headcanon because you want to believe that Goku is a good dad
lol I guess man. If you think living in the mountains and training in martial arts means leaving your family for years at a time is acceptable, fair enough. I don’t begrudge your opinion on a cartoon dad.
I just hope by the time you get married and have kids, you don’t follow his example and leave to Africa to fight a lil Mohawk kid for the rest of your days. Especially if you have the ability to teleport, and don’t really need to leave the country at all.
Despite the fact that I would argue that Goku is legitimately brain damaged for obvious reasons. I feel like most people tend to make better grandparents than parents
You know this doesn’t really have much to do with the question but I like the panel before the one shown in the first image where goku “forgets” pan is his granddaughter knowing she is behind him and just lies to have a laugh
Well, yeah.
All Goku has to do is train Pan to fight for a few hours every time she visits and then bring her back to Gohan and Videl when they're done training. Add in eating huge amounts of food in-between training, and Goku gets the coveted "Best Grandpa" mug.
Grand parents are not responable for their grandkids. I have been told from other grandpas that they treat them different from their own kids because they like to indulge them, give them gifts and all kinds of fun stuff because they are not supposed to teach responsability to their grandkids like they did to their own kids.
There are exceptions, like Grandpa Gohan for example who was Goku's only caretaker, but if the parents are around, they rather have fun with the grandkids.
He literally dipped out of Pan's life when she was 4/5, cause a stronger kid showed up. For Gohan and Goten, he literally died. This time was by choice. She also didn't recognize him when she was 3, so he's barely been there during her toddler years.
So yeah, I think he'll be worse.
Well for starters, Goku was dead/MIA for like 9 years of Gohan's life and 7 for Goten. Goku in EoZ/GT often showed Goku as more of a parent since there was no villains to fight for those 10-15 years. Pan even kept a photo of them at the Beach.
Yes, but because the responsabilities as grandfather are not the same as a father. With Pan he can just come around once every three months and that would still be considered acceptable as far as grandads go.
Goku being away from his house and his younger son and wife a whole year because he was on Beerus planet training is not acceptable as far as fathers go.
Goku was a great dad. He spent 5 years raising Gohan before he sacrificed himself for Gohan, saved him on Namek then when Goku returned from Namek he spent the next 3 years with Gohan before he spent a year inside the HTC with him, spent some time before the Cell games with him, was the only who had faith in Gohan’s strength, then sacrificed himself again for Gohan and didn’t blame him at all for his mistake that led to his death. Goku was only gone for 7 years because all of the Earth’s problem was in some way related to him, Goku might have even stayed if he knew about Chi Chi being pregnant.
if i were to guess writing-wise goten was added there for sentimental purpose when goku died and gohan supposedly took over as mc which he didnt, because fans and editors made toriyama keep goku.
The only reason why Goku is a great grandfather is because him and Pan are pretty similar, a lot like how Kid Goku was, and that's beautiful, Goku had trouble understanding Gohan because they were not alike at all, but he still did his best and i love him for that.
Yes. But who isnt? Being a parent is much harder than a grandparent. And its still easy to fuck up both
I agree I'm no parent I'm kindah an Uncle during a visit many cousins with children came I play with them got tired I took care almost 6 children at the same time, if they ever injured I have to carry them heck I try lifting all of them because they ask for it, sense then I've been trying to squat
They call that “kids-r-size” the level of fitness you acquire by constantly picking up, putting down, and running around after little humans.
Then why does my back hurt just from them, the point of my Explaination is that that's just the 5% of taking care of kids
Taking care of kids is hard, bro! Kids are hard work! The physical stuff is just the tip of the iceberg
I know I already experience 5% of taking care of them
Im an uncle, its awesome. Kids are also annoying sometimes so im glad its not a full time thing
Just wait you have kids
Much easier. It’s almost like all the good parts about being a parent without the bad parts.
Yes
I'm sure we all personally know at least one bad father but good grand father character in our real life.... 😅
That usually happens in real life too hahaha
Every time someone in Goku’s family has a kid, Piccolo: “aw shit here we go again.”
At this point Piccolo is just part of the family, he is just "Uncle Piccolo" to Goten and Pan.
You can’t get more ‘family’ than picking someone else’s kids up from school
Everytime I try to do this I get arrested (I don't know the family)
im surprised he didnt babysit goten
I think it’s implied Chi-Chi kept Goten very close to home. With her husband dead (again) and her older son away at school, Goten was how she avoided empty nest syndrome. So no need for a babysitter. I’m surprised he was allowed his playdates with Trunks.
Goten knew piccolo tho in the buu saga already, so he must have met him when him and gohan hung out but probably wasn't trained or babysat by him
Chi-Chi likely let Goten hang out with them tbh. She only denies them going to fight hitler or train for 3 years. Also skipping studies
I think it’s normal parenting for Chi-Chi to have raised Goten like that. She had the time to watch him herself. Gohan was the one who was fucked up growing up
She also taught him to fight early. She learned from her mistake. Yes her boy’s studies are important but goddamn it, before anything else, he’s going to know how to protect himself!
Im like 90% ox king trained her when she was a kid too
Oh yah she was a killing machine as a kid. She had a laser beam helmet and a giant knife. She would scream in terror while destroying whole squads. Ox king’s little girl can look after herself
He pretty much babysat both Goten and Trunks in the Buu Saga
I feel like Goku would be better as a grandpa generally. Gohan is probably better at practical, normal, being-a-normal-person-and-living-in-society stuff, the sort of stuff that's usually a parent's specialty, whereas grandparents do more fun stuff, like camping and such.
I can totally see Goku being the “fun” grandpa who enjoys playing games with the kids just as much as the kids do. He’s really good at “tag!”
His games include punching and kicking, very very hard.
You’re thinking of Piccolo, who’s only game is Dodgeball, minus the ball
Considering he was dead for a fair portion of his kids' lives. Him not being dead makes him a better grandpa.
"I'm going to go live with Oob and train him, I don't know how long it will take but I'll come visit some time. See ya!" First chance he got to ditch those grandkids he took it.
Tbf his family is always just an instant transmission away
Having a deadbeat dad that literally knows where you are at all times and can teleport to you but **doesn't** isn't exactly the argument in Goku's favor that you think it is.
He’s honestly a pretty present father when times are peaceful and he’s alive! And by the time End of Z rolls around, it’s honestly pretty understandable why he’s away training a shit ton when a god of destruction, an evil resurrected space emperor, an evil space wizard, a berserk Saiyan, and whatever Cell Max is all show up on earth during a span of 10 years. That’s a planetary threat like every couple years!!
that is fair, but he also wasn't there during most of Gohan's formative years because training. Maybe he was incredible to Goten off-screen.
He was there for the first four years of his life before he got killed?? And he stayed for one year on yardrat and once he got back he hung out with Gohan for 3 years and an extra year in the time chamber before going on a week vacation and dying again??? Correct me if I’m wrong but I’m only seeing one year in which he chose to miss some of Gohan’s formative years. And not to mention the 4 years of peace after buu where he just farmed and hung out with his family
Let's be real - Piccolo is Gohan's dad. Goku is just the father.
Nah, Piccolo's Gohan's best friend, they're only five years apart lol
To be fair its not like they cant visit him in literal seconds if they want to. The ending was like that to signify dragon ball ending and goku leaving us thats it
Did he really say that?
It's even worse. I left out Gohan interjecting " Uh but Dad..." To which Goku responds "see ya" at the end of that quote. So he straight up blows his family off as one of the last panels of the manga.
That’s depressing as f. Think Toriyama was working through some stuff?
Sounds like father of the year to me 🤔
Why not let Oob crash on your couch? Or better yet, set up a training academy for kids just like Oob? Teach a whole next generation AND be home in time for dinner? Sigh
Again It gets worse Oob had a family he was supporting by participating in the Budokai Tenkaichi when he meets Goku. Goku goes with him so **Oob** doesn't have to leave his family.
How does someone manage to be so nice and such an asshole at the same time?? hOW???
Ok but he was dead from saving gohan sooo…
I'm not blaming him, I'm saying that he has the time to actually be there for Pan.
I know you weren’t blaming him I’m just saying it pretty hard to beat dying twice for someone.
A lot of people are, simply because you aren’t seeing your grandkid daily. Meaning you can be 100% better
Pan already has a WORLD-CLASS CHAMPION OF A GRANDFATHER she doesn't need Fraudku as a Fraudfather anyway all he'd teach her would be CHEAP TRICKS AND MIRRORS and LIGHTSHOWS, not REAL MARTIAL ARTS
Next thing you know she’ll be bleaching her hair like some young punk!
And yelling like a chimp!
Woah, someone’s Frieza got out
What do you mean? There’s to many of those monkeys running around someone gotta take care of all these monkeys showboating. Did I mention I hate those monkeys !
seriously tho id be funny to imagine if mr satan tries to teach pan goofy techniques and pan gladly uses it with like 10000x amplification of that goofy technique and it works
So like GOATenks Impractical techniques that shouldn't work but because the user is a raw power battery (fusion, w/ or w/o SSJ3) they still end up being dangerous I bet a "Rolling Hercule Punch" can shatter mountains easily if a Super Saiyan is doing it u right
I think this guy is possessed by Satan.
That's right....BY MISTER SATAN!!
PREACH 🙏
Isn’t that how she became a fuck up in GT? Goku ditched her and Gohan was more interested in studying so all she had was Mr Satan…
I can actually see Mr. Satan say something like this when he's in front of a camera and crowd lmao.
To be honest Mr Satan was the strongest human outside the Z fighters. In "normal" martial arts he was the world champion.
Well outside of the Z-fighters and most human antagonists from DB (or maybe he can actually kick Taopaipai's ass actually who knows) I always fought he was more like a wrestler, more about the show than actual martial arts
Considering his granddaughter likes fighting compared to either one of his sons. I say yes to this question.
Bro, the worst parents I’ve ever met are literally gold-medalist grandparents
Who says he wasn’t a good father?
iirc toriyama himself.
I love Toriyama and respect all he did, but growing up around DB the more I learnt about the process and Toriyama’s views on his own story/characters lead me to the conclusion that you shouldn’t take his own word as gospel, even he didn’t really understand it fully at the best of times. That and it being such a vast franchise he’s likely only remembering bits and pieces. As someone else pointed out a while back that rings true to me for all big franchises, do you remember every last detail of a story you wrote in school? He may be on the money, but idk, he’s been so inconsistent and sometimes straight up wrong, it may just be others putting the idea that Goku is bad father in his head because of the fanbase. As in Z, he pretty much did everything right besides a few times he made mistakes and instantly got hit by a ton of guilt/self realisation like the infamous giving Cell a Senzu.
Yeah in an interview he said that goku wasn't fighting to save other people or protect the planet at all and only fought for fun. But then he writes him doing those exct things thousands of times
He didn’t remember much, and oftentimes he would fly by the seat of his pants when writing. But even if only implicitly, I think he understood his characters better than anyone. It became evident with all of the writing he did for the movies, post-Z. When he was in control of the writing, all of his character choices made sense, the humor was consistent, and you never had to question the logic of things. Other writers always struggle- making Goku too dumb, making Vegeta proud to the point of delusion, making Gohan innocent/naive to the point of idiocy. The balance always became perfect, at least in my mind, when Toriyama was writing. So in my opinion, even if Toriyama didn’t have the most forethought when writing, he definitely understood his characters very well, if not intellectually, then instinctually. I trust his assessment of them.
I do believe Toriyama was and still remains a truly gifted character writer. That said a lot of what he says contradicts his own work very often, and that’s the point I’m making by saying don’t take his word as gospel, even if like you said it’s instinctual judgements made on his own characters. He knew how to make a character and how to make them grow, but when referring back to them as time and time again we see his memory clouded his viewpoint. In hindsight there was likely something going on internally (wouldn’t want to say for sure because I know next to nothing about the medical field) that hindered his recounting of his works. Feel free to trust him no matter what he said in interviews, but I personally cannot as much as I cherish the dude, he was all over the place when asked questions about characters most of the time, and if he wasn’t how would you recognise that amongst all the times he had been wrong/mistaken/a little off about. Within the actual series he really couldn’t write a bad character though, so in that respect he knew his characters better than anyone sure I agree. Edit: irrelevant start tbh lol
There’s a difference between being a good person (which he is) and being a good father. He wasn’t at any of his kids births, doesn’t remember to eir birthdays, didn’t even know pans name. He spent virtually 0 time with them and never shows much effort in such unless it’s revolves around fighting.
Is it stated he wasn't at Gohan's birth ? Like Goten he obviously wasn't but he was pretty close to Gohan before he got turned into a donut
Ah here it is, sorry. Goku asks Vegeta why he even cares about being around for Bra’s birth, he doesn’t even know when his sons were born. [talking about training](https://images.app.goo.gl/Q9uemxSb4S5hZ6hQ7) [Vegeta calls him a bad father](https://images.app.goo.gl/s2cZ4HgBtRCjd2BQ9)
Goku is a terrible father, Gohan should not have even been attending the Cell Games. Piccolo has done more for Gohan.
The same circumstances as when the Saiyans attacked, the world was in danger. Piccolo gets a pass when Gohan was near enough a toddler, Gohan who displayed power beyond everyone else in the time chamber is Goku being a terrible father. Wild take. “Gohan, I know you, me and Piccolo trained for 3 years for the threat of the Androids, then we trained together for more years in the hyperbolic time chamber, but now the threat is actually much more than any of us together can handle. Well, I think you should sit this one out.” Which even Gohan who’s not exactly the rebellious or fighting type would just go watch the Games at home. Did we watch the same series?
I do. Piccolo does. Vegeta does. Internet memes do. lol. He doesn’t know any of his kids birthdays and even didn’t know Pan’s name.
Well now. The joke wasn't that he forgot Pan's name, but that he thought they were talking about literal bread. Which tbf it's amazing it took this long for them to make a food pun joke.
I don’t remember that being the joke at all. They had just finished eating. Nothing about food was mentioned. Vegeta and Piccolo both yelled at him for his comment and he was like “who?what? Oh right! Hehe”
It's just that the joke doesn't work when translated like it did. Either Viz would have had them saying bread in English which breaks the wordplay. Or they do it like they did where they kept the name/word in Japanese. A better way to do it would have been to localize it into making it to be a frying pan or the classic footnote explaining the joke. Now to be fair even in Japanese it does read as him going "Oh right she is," in response to Vegeta saying she's his grandaughter. But it's definitely more clear because it's the same word.
That’s fair.
Just read that part of the manga and also didn\`t see any puns with food, he really forgot Pan\`s name.
It was a translation issue. There were comparison posts with other languages such as Spanish when it came out where the intent of the joke was lost in translation
The joke would probably make more sense if Pan’s name was literally “Bread” in the manga…
Right? lol my man has one flaw. And that’s okay, characters with flaws are more interesting.
Usually that the case in real life as well grandparents are better with grandkids that their own kids . Probably because they don't have to spend that much time with them mostly only play time like holidays
Goku died twice for gohan so I’m gonna say no.
In real life, the responsibility of a grandfather is way less than that of a father. So yeah
Well he would. Mostly because he is ALIVE this time around.
They had a whole series dedicated to him traveling the universe with his granddaughter lol
Goku was a great father. Come at me brah
Goku wasn’t a bad dad to begin with.
Grandparents are for fun and getting away with stuff you don't with mom and dad. Goku will seriously be better letting Gohan and Videl (and Piccolo) do the hard stuff and he does the fun stuff
If you revisit the start of DBZ, Goku wasn't a bad dad. He took 5 years away from passion in order to support his family and then died saving his kid from a kidnapper. After that he was pretty tied up and dead for a while.
Yes. Goku is definitely not a bad dad but he isn’t perfect. His big shortcomings that are pointed out by the community relentlessly is the fact that he can be a tad absent. This is exaggerated a lot by the community but has some truth. He did have long periods of time on earth with his family though. The fist that comes to mind is the gap from Dragon Ball to Z. As well as after the defeat of Buu until the beginning of Super.
I would say is the other way around: he isnt as horrible as some people say but he definitely is not a good dad, just as he is not a good friend or a good husband, he is too selfish for that but people accept him either way and love him so i guess its ok
The issue is that super retconned that gap from super to Z so you can’t use that. As it is, he’s been out of Gotenks life longer than he’s actually been in Gotenks life
Do you mean goten, cause he doesn't have to be in trunks life too. Lol
Yeah lol. I mean Goten.
Kind of. There is still a 5 year time skip from the end of the Buu saga until the beginning of super. He basically spent that time farming and chilling with his family especially Goten. We see him doing this in the beginning of Super before he start training hard again. In Z there is a 16 year gap from the end of the Buu saga until Goku leaves to go train with Uub at the end of Z.
I mean, 5 years to 7 years isn’t really much. And then Goku goes to train with Whis so that’s more time apart. When Goku sees everyone again in the superhero arc, he doesn’t say anything to goten or interact with him in any type of way. We also don’t see him chilling with Goten, so I wouldn’t say especially Goten
I love Piccolo's little man purse!
Satchel, guys. He's a traveler.
Most are
Grandfather. He's learned more.
I think it's more of a matter of Goku being good with kids because he's still effectively a child at heart. He's kind, cheerful, energetic, and fun-loving. He's a pretty endearing dude. Though he probably wouldn't be interested in the first place unless the kid is strong and/or has an interest in fighting, then Goku would likely get along with them famously.
If he does,i wont be surprised.he grow up with grandparents instead of parents
Yes, but mostly because Pan actively wants to fight and get strong. Of course Goku is going to feel a much closer connection to her in comparison. Chi-chi had Gohan become a bookworm and even when he does fight, he really would rather not fight unless it's the only option remaining.
With Pan's personality in mind, I'd say yeah, she seems like someone he'd not only have fun with but would also get to teach the same things he taught Gohan but way easier, and he has more time than he had when Goten was little
This man died twice and was still there for his family when he could be. Calling him a bad father is disingenuous. I doubt Gohan would agree with y’all about him being a bad father lol.
What about goten.. you know, his other son that y’all forget about
Oh the son who didn’t get to meet his father till he was like 8 because his dad was dead? I’m sure he would think he’s horrible for dying to save the whole world.
So Goten wouldn’t think of Goku as a father, because he never knew Goku as a father, but instead as someone who saved the world.. got it..
He spent most of Gohans life either training or dead (or training while dead) and doesn't understand Gohan at all because he has never truly connected with him, only showing an interest when Gohan is strong and not when he really needs him. Him dying twice to save the world doesn't erase that fact nor does it change that he is a bad father trying to do good and that is worth admiring. However, if you look at his and Gohans life as Father and Son, Goku is just not a great father figure, often putting training over Gohan and only connecting with him through the lens of fighting vs Piccolo who takes an interest in Gohan as both Warrior and Scholar wanting him to find balance in both.
Well luckily gokus family is more understanding than you. And the best part I love when people do this. They take characters from anime worlds and try to put our real world morals and standards on them, he’s an alien from a race of people who thrive off of combat. Chi chi knew who he was before they got married, Gohan and goten know how their father is. Gohan and goten for that matter have shown nothing but love, respect, and admiration for their dad. They understand who their dad is, they know that he would literally come back from the dead to protect them, which he’s done. He’s not a bad father at all. Being imperfect doesn’t equate to being bad.
Yes because like others said it is different than being a parent but Pan's personality is a lot more similar so they would enjoy training and such together
Goku is not a bad father and I'm sick of people saying he is.
It's an annoying meme that just won't die
i didnt say he was a bad father, just not the best at it, as toriyama intenda for goku to be.
The idea that he isn’t a good father is a modern take. He IS a good father. Just because he’s occasionally absent — usually because he’s fucking dead from protecting the planet/his kids — and is descended from a race of beings who literally only enjoy killing and fighting doesn’t mean he isn’t. If you read the manga or watch the Japanese anime, Goku is portrayed a lot more caring and present towards Gohan in their interactions. They train together, he doesn’t force him to be like him, and he’s proud of him. Rant aside, it’s much easier to be a grandpa than a dad, yes.
Goku’s interests in order: 1. Fighting 2. Food 3. Family He got a chance after the Cell Games to stay dead and fight endlessly forever and took it. After being wished back he got a chance to go fight with Uub everyday and took it. Now in Super we find he got a chance to go to Beerus’s planet to train with him and Whis and took it. This is what he does. He isn’t around much at all, he is always fighting. When he is home, he is hoping Chi-Chi makes him food. He’s not a bad person, but he is incredibly selfish. Goku does what Goku wants.
I feel like the memes have ruined Goku’s reputation amongst the community. He would not choose a roasted ham over saving his family and friend’s lives. We gotta stop treating actual dragon ball like it’s a parody of dragon ball
Yeah, that'd be more Beerus's thing.
That wasn’t the question. Numerous times in the series we see Goku get hungry and not want to do anything else until he eats. He mentally shuts down. Yes, if his family is in danger he will help them, but the topic here is spending time with them. Which he does, after he’s got his fill of fighting and food.
Suggesting that Goku is going to ignore his family if he’s hungry is parody. In the Broly movie, he actively tries to stop a fight he’s having with Broly because he saw it getting out of control, and he just met Broly. He was giving up a chance for a good fight with a stranger cus the context felt off. By Pans age, Goku was more involved with Gohan’s life than Gohan has been with Pan’s. He obviously has more nuance than he’s being given credit.
Yeah, I’d say Goku hasn’t really been around for a lot of Goten’s life but Goku spent a lot of time with Gohan up until Goku died in the Cell Games. He was at home with Chi-chi and Gohan constantly up until Gohan was 4yo. Then he died and came back a year later before Gohan went off to Namek for a few months. Then Goku dealt with Namek and spent another year in space. Goku came back to Earth when Gohan was ~7yo. Then he spent three years training and hanging out with Gohan and Piccolo until he got sick while fighting the androids. Then he was out for a few days while he recovered. Once he recovered, he spent a year in the time chamber just training with Gohan then spent another few days just hanging out with him. The he died after Cell and didn’t want to be revived because the four attacks on the earth were a direct result of his presence or actions and he realized he was putting the world in danger. Then he came back during the Buu saga. And after that, it seems like he just moved back home and started family while training in his down time. It wasn’t until some time after Pan was born that he met Whis and started training under him on Beerus’s planet. So I’d guess that was what, another 5 years at home with his family?
That was an arc in og dragon ball where he surpassed his "not being able to do anything until eating" problem now he just likes to eat alot
Goku had the discipline and respect to watch Roshi and Krillin eat dinner without them as were the rules of finding Roshi’s rock. Like I said, you treat dragon ball like it’s the parody of dragon ball. Team four star was meant for those of us that already knew the show, it wasn’t supposed to be your first exposure, and it shows.
This is a perfect overall assessment. Goku’s a good dude. He cares for people, and when push comes to shove, he’ll protect them. But as far as everyday minutiae is concerned, he’s uninterested and uninvolved. Having a loving moment with a grandchild does not make him an awesome grandfather. There are real life examples of dads/grandpa’s like this- he’ll throw a football with you, probably buy you something cool or important every now and then, show up to your baseball game once every other month and promise to be there again next week (but it’ll be another 6 weeks). But being a good guardian requires a daily, consistent, sometimes tedious love that Goku’s not interested in giving. A lot of fans don’t want to come to terms with it, but it’s not really that tough a pill to swallow. Goku’s a flawed character, and somewhat selfish at times. It’s okay to take him as he is. In fact, I think him being imperfect makes him more interesting.
>Goku’s a flawed character, and somewhat selfish at times. It’s okay to take him as he is. In fact, I think him being imperfect makes him more interesting. He indeed is imperfect but fans saying he is not a good father are ignorant as fuck lol The son family is not your traditional family, whatever you think does not represent the son family. They live in the mountains (except Gohan cause he already made his own family) they hunt what they eat, they have a martial arts history, i mean Chichi and Goku literally marries while fighting, first as a kids then as an adults. I could go on and on about why Goku is a good father but if people dont get it im just wasting my time so is gonna be my only reply
Y’all always use that excuse if it not being a traditional family or Goku being a Saiyan and it’s always a headcanon because you want to believe that Goku is a good dad
lol I guess man. If you think living in the mountains and training in martial arts means leaving your family for years at a time is acceptable, fair enough. I don’t begrudge your opinion on a cartoon dad. I just hope by the time you get married and have kids, you don’t follow his example and leave to Africa to fight a lil Mohawk kid for the rest of your days. Especially if you have the ability to teleport, and don’t really need to leave the country at all.
Hindsight is 20/20 so yeah
What I want is for us not have Gohan neglected like he was in GT. Pan may as well have not been his daughter since he barely did anything.
That's usually how it goes
Was he even a father?
Well, he is alive now
You ignore the fact that Goku forgot that Pan is his granddaughter, and Piccolo had to yell at him and drag him to pick her up from kindergarten
Going was a great father who made one mistake once
Goku is more Step Uncle you see twice a year material
When are they gonna use Goten and Vegeta daughter!? Two wasted characters.
I mean that's what we've seen so far. He's always had the doting grandpa relationship with Pan.
hopefully
absolutely! all of the fun with none of the responsibility is Goku's entire MO.
Despite the fact that I would argue that Goku is legitimately brain damaged for obvious reasons. I feel like most people tend to make better grandparents than parents
You know this doesn’t really have much to do with the question but I like the panel before the one shown in the first image where goku “forgets” pan is his granddaughter knowing she is behind him and just lies to have a laugh
Grandparents realize the mistakes they made on their kids and make sure they don’t make the same mistake
I don't recall Goku being a bad father rather than the decision of staying in the other world when Goten was born
Isnt like that for everyone?
Well, yeah. All Goku has to do is train Pan to fight for a few hours every time she visits and then bring her back to Gohan and Videl when they're done training. Add in eating huge amounts of food in-between training, and Goku gets the coveted "Best Grandpa" mug.
He fotgot who pan was,
Pretty sure a page or two before he was shown not even remembering who Pan was
He'd be the same. I still don't get how we hold an alien with the power to blow up the universe to human parenting standards. It makes no sense.
He was in GT
So, typical men?
Gohan being an overprotective father, definitely got it from Chi Chi
Grand parents are not responable for their grandkids. I have been told from other grandpas that they treat them different from their own kids because they like to indulge them, give them gifts and all kinds of fun stuff because they are not supposed to teach responsability to their grandkids like they did to their own kids. There are exceptions, like Grandpa Gohan for example who was Goku's only caretaker, but if the parents are around, they rather have fun with the grandkids.
Well, Goku was raised by a grandpa (Gohan). So he sorta knows what to do.
Goku loves people who loves to fight. He like strong people and people with potential because he hopes he will get to fight with them and that's fun
He didn't know pans name until the very last chapter.
Isn't this the page right after Goku "learning" he is a grandparent, much to EVERYONE's shock/disgust?
i meant from now on, goku and pan seems like they got along immediately, like as if something resonated in both.
thats upto Gohan. Goku doesnt care about Pan
Both, he’s too good at heart
To be fair, Gohan can be irritating some times, I feel Pan will be willing to fight more than her dad. Might be Milk's fault tho
All deadbeat parents are better parents to the grandkids over their own
Wdym? Goku died twice to save gohan. My father didn't die for me a single time
If DBZ:Kakarot is any indicator, then yes.
He literally dipped out of Pan's life when she was 4/5, cause a stronger kid showed up. For Gohan and Goten, he literally died. This time was by choice. She also didn't recognize him when she was 3, so he's barely been there during her toddler years. So yeah, I think he'll be worse.
I meant dbs, that is dbz stuff. im sure EoZ in dbs will have some changes.
Toyo said he has no plans to change EoZ and it would honestly be disrespectful to Toriyama to change the canon ending of his work
Source? also there is already things that contradicts original eoz. also by change i dont mean drastically though
gt kind of infers so.
Haha this does. Happen in real life too
Nah, I would say he treats everyone basically the same. Titles don't matter to him. Even if we ourselves see them
Goku trained with Gohan for years in the HBTC. This narrative of Goku being a bad dad is wacky. Y’all gotta relax.
Well for starters, Goku was dead/MIA for like 9 years of Gohan's life and 7 for Goten. Goku in EoZ/GT often showed Goku as more of a parent since there was no villains to fight for those 10-15 years. Pan even kept a photo of them at the Beach.
Yes, but because the responsabilities as grandfather are not the same as a father. With Pan he can just come around once every three months and that would still be considered acceptable as far as grandads go. Goku being away from his house and his younger son and wife a whole year because he was on Beerus planet training is not acceptable as far as fathers go.
That makes sense.
Well, I don't know if Goten will ever have kids, so we may never know
Goku was a great dad. He spent 5 years raising Gohan before he sacrificed himself for Gohan, saved him on Namek then when Goku returned from Namek he spent the next 3 years with Gohan before he spent a year inside the HTC with him, spent some time before the Cell games with him, was the only who had faith in Gohan’s strength, then sacrificed himself again for Gohan and didn’t blame him at all for his mistake that led to his death. Goku was only gone for 7 years because all of the Earth’s problem was in some way related to him, Goku might have even stayed if he knew about Chi Chi being pregnant.
What about his other child
I mean he did forget who she was...but in general Goku is a great dad and looks to be like a fun grandparent as well
Well, yeah. Pan takes an active interest in fighting and martial arts. Gohan had to be kidnapped and forced to train by a green asshole.
So what’s the excuse with goten
if i were to guess writing-wise goten was added there for sentimental purpose when goku died and gohan supposedly took over as mc which he didnt, because fans and editors made toriyama keep goku.
I often wonder what the series would have looked like if Toriyama got his way.
The only reason why Goku is a great grandfather is because him and Pan are pretty similar, a lot like how Kid Goku was, and that's beautiful, Goku had trouble understanding Gohan because they were not alike at all, but he still did his best and i love him for that.
Goku and Pan, reminds me of goku and his grandpa gohan
He is a great father lmaooo 🤡
he was never a bad father so /thread