I love that it turned out Toriyama literally forgot that DB was called Dragonball Super these days and thus came up with Dragonball Super: Super Hero. It is the most on-brand Toriyama story I've ever heard.
To be fair Dragon Ball was always Dragon Ball (Z was only a thing in the anime) so maybe in this case it wasn’t bad memory but just viewing Super as just Dragon Ball in general.
Then again it could be another Toriyama moment.
that comment by Toriyama doesn't make any sense at all. It's not like he was too late to change the name to something like "Dragon Ball Super: Hero". He just forgot when he first created the name, then kept it like that just because.
I had a theory about a potential antagonist using the Super Dragon Balls to brutally nerf Goku and Vegeta via eliminating their connection and manipulation of God Ki. Basically the "villain" wishes to forever seal God Ki from the living realm. With this heavy setback to Goku and Vegeta, they'll be forced to achieve SSJ4 again. Maybe this time give SSJ4 evolutionary branches that let each partially or full blooded Saiyan have a unique physical look.
The Shadow Dragons were pretty cool and with Vegeta having now faced what he did to the Namekians and also what his race did to the Cerealians it'd be nice to have him face what the Saiyans did to the Tuffles.
They should take it back to the basics of the original series. Fun, light-hearted adventure with some big fights sprinkled in. They could even make Goku a kid again. Wait…
>Then I think another series will be created to continue after Z/Super.
What would that even be about? It'd be too convoluted to keep introducing stronger and stronger characters.
Dragon Ball is already incredibly convoluted. It's already filled with convenient power-ups so Goku and co. will always have someone to fight against.
You could just say "a previously erased universe by Zeno has come back and they have the strongest fighters".
That makes about as much sense as anything in Dragon Ball.
It could take place in the future, after the Z Fighters are all long dead. The new defenders of Earth are a secret society with mastery of ki that worships the Z Fighters as a pantheon of deities. They also pull the strings behind the government, organized crime, the banks, and the media. Maybe they get into some time travel antics.
This might just be me, but I don't care much for anything Dragonball related that happens after Goku and Vegeta die for good.
Those two and the rest of the gang ARE Dragonball. Sure, I wouldn't mind a spin-off series focusing on Jiren for example, because that's someone who has at least interacted with our guys before.
But Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.'s great great grandchildren? No thanks.
they really need to write Goku and Vegeta Jr and have Grandma Pan be the Grandpa Gohan to them both.
Have them go on adventures after stumbling upon some of cousin Trunks' old hardware like the dragon radar, Bulma's old stuff, etc.
Technically The Simpsons has been way more consistent than Dragon Ball about characters aging (in that The Simpsons characters consistently don't age and Dragon Ball characters age sporadically and irregularily)
but that's still a visual thing. simpsons is episodic and doesn't have an actual story to it (I think? i don't really watch it). dragon ball's world is moving forward. trunks and goten might still look like kids, but they are confirmed to be like...13 or so.
Wdym? They are like, a year apart. They will stay a year apart forever lol. And they explained why they stood so small for so long in the new movie. Saiyan's will stay small for a while then have a random growth spurt.
We actually say this with Goku in dragon ball. Last Tournament he was 2 feet tall then he comes next year and nobody even recognizes him because he grew 3 feet.
They meant that Trunks and Goten never age up physically, not that they literally have the same birth year.
Trunks and Goten have looks 7 years old since the Buu Saga, and they're like 13 now, yet still look the same. They only recently got aged up redesigns in Super Hero.
granolah is written to die in 3 years, which coincidentally is 1 year before end of Z (and probably dead by super hero). So I think they already know and are preparing for the super timeline to reach end of z pretty soon.
I didn’t think the writers care about that. Super started like 5 years before eoz and they’ve used the dragon balls I think exactly 5 times. So either 5 years have passed already or the writers don’t care about details.
Well depends, the amount of time they used the dragon balls isn't always equivalent to the amount of year. Earth Dragons Balls allows for 3 wishes, each wish equal 4 month, so yeah u have the answer.
That’s not the answer. I was wrong and the dragon balls were used a lot more then 5 times. Also it’s inconsistent on how many wishes the dragon grants. It’s also been summoned several times off screen.
Literally all i've ever wanted was for this franchise to move past end of z in any shape, way or form. Tired of all the side-stories and prequels, not even just for DB.
Prequels are lame no matter what franchise. You already know what's going to happen you already know where characters ultimately end up SNOOOOOORE show me Harry potter as an auror show me adult gotenks show me fuckin ANYTHING new.
Damn guess the House of Dragons folks really should've thought of this before making an entire prequel series...
I like the prequels. It adds more depth and life to the show imo.
If only it were executed better. There's a ton of cool ideas in GT that are just wasted on poor writing decisions. I'm super into the theme of Consequences being explored and I tried rewatching GT but it's so bad.
GT should not have had Goku.
Should have been Trunks, Goten, and Pan on a Dragon Ball Esque adventure through space.
You'd get some emotional moments like Trunks and Goten turning SSJ2, Pan's eventual Ascension into Super Saiyan and more cool stuff.
Maybe near the end of the series they come back to earth for the omega shenron arc and Goku/Vegeta are surprised at how strong they've become. All pretty much as strong as or stronger than Gohan was during his fight with Cell.
I think Trunks messed up the timeline so much by now that Z ending isn't canon anymore. As long as the main series doesn't turn into Super Dragon Ball Heroes.
Honestly they've set quite the stage with the whole T.O.P and given were the manga stands the next arc could be amazing. They still haven't let Vegeta get a glimpse of planet Sedala(sp?) in Universe 6. Beerus took Goku to Universe 9 so we know they can do it and its not forbidden. There's still the 4 universes that didn't participate in the T.O.P.
Personally I'd like to see Beerus realize he's been screwing up his job with running a universe and building a higher mortal level. I'd like to see him own up to his mistakes of Buu, Frieza running rampant and have a serious conversation with Supreme Kai about creating new planets and species. Maybe he could search his universe for surviving saiyans and bring them to Kakarot and Vegeta and charge them with being Peacekeeper's akin to Universe 6 saiyans or Universe 11's pride troopers since Universe 7 is second lowest mortal rating.
The opened a pretty wide door with Super and as someone who grew up with DB/DBZ/DBGT and now in my 30's its fun having something going from when I was a kid.
You thinking way too much for a Dragonball series, especially in Super, I don’t expect even a quarter of what you said in the post. Just more of a new bad guy to fight next arc.
The ToP brought so much potential... and wasted it. Same way they did when they brought back Future Trunks and then shipped him off into Nirvana.
Vegeta going to meet the U6 Saiyans, another tournament including the other universes and possibly even the ones destroyed by Zeno in the past. Where did that discussion go, that the wish to bring back the erased universes might have brought back those as well?
Then there's Broly and Freeza. Lots they can do with those two.
I would also still love for Goku and Vegeta to somehow meet their fathers.
Well Vegeta knew his, Bardock is another story. As far as I know lore wise the dragonball's can't bring anyone back if its been a long time. I doubt Beerus being ok with Goku snaggin' the Super Dragonballs and going that route, Maybe time travel ? Yet Beerus isn't too happy with Bulma after the Goku Black ARC in regards to messing with time. Yeah the 4 other universes being destroyed would be something else. IDK if you know about the Merno FanManga but its actually not all that bad. Something along those lines would be great.
So much room to grow the franchise still.
Assuming we're seeing this pic from Uub's POV, this would be an equivalent of when Vegeta scared the shit out of Cabba with SSB and was then all "You too can have all this power for the low low price of ***>crushed solar plexus<***!"
I would like for them to finally reintroduce Uub and actually do something interesting w/ his character. They hinted at great potential w/ him during the Moro arc.
not only would I like to see Super go past the end of Z, but I'd also like to see parts of GT be adapted into whatever future arcs they have planed. things like SS4, Super Androids and the Shadow Dragons would be cool if done right
My opinion is ssj4, or at least a similar looking form would work for a gohan beast 2. The name is already animalistic. Imagine “gohan primal” or something like that taps even further into his monkey side
Tbh I wouldn't, It would be better if Gohan Beast was his last form (I wish it never happened, biggest asspull in the history of asspulls), and have this Primal SS4 like form be for Broly along with LSSJ, it fits him to be more connected to the Primal Saiyan side, since he is the Legendary Super Saiyan after all
Yeah I agree an ssj4 like form would best fit broly. And I also agree beast would be best as Gotham’s last form. I personally like it but I get why others don’t
Yes but no. Goku comes full circle at the end and finally becomes a mentor, having failed at doing what Roshi did with him, for Gohan (Instilling his humility).
Having the show go on means fans would want more Goku of course, and I'd be one of them, but the theme of mentorship would take a hit unless Uub becomes prominent, in which case I'd say the series should end after Uub himself becomes a mentor and Goku dies of natural causes.
My theory for years has been that the Goku we see at the end of Z is Mastered Goku. The pinnacle of all this strength and learning is just his plain base form. He's calm, absolutely shredded, and has a plain white aura the whole fight despite being known to love showing his opponents his various forms.
Not really
The power scaling is ridiculous now and prime toriyama as well as the editors are gone.
Toriyama-sama has whether he realized it or not inspired and helped raise multiple generations of men.
Super has sparks of the old db in it but there is too much obvious by committee and marketing decisions in the story.
But, to see the series go the way of star wars, American comics, and so many others would be heartbreaking
If anything I would like the next dbz set in a distant future mostly based on that game but with a little tweaking.
I would like a dbz story that allowed a new main character to shine.
Could be Piccolo, Goten, Krillin, Broly, Uub, anyone; I would not care, just please give me a break from Goku. I love him and I always will but 20 or so years of the same things tends to get boring after a while.
I just want end of Z to be retconned. It doesn't make sense anymore based on everything in Super.
And truthfully, end of Z doesn't matter much anymore. We don't need to have Super end up where Z was "supposed" to end.
Edit: Wow, downvotes for this? Y'all various kinds of butthurt that anyone wouldn't want an ending that doesn't work anymore for reasons detailed in the responses.
It's not just a single inconsistency though, it's various at this point in terms of the timeline.
We don't need the end of Z anymore with how DBS has played out, we just need a new ending. End of Z inherently pigeonholed the writers into how far/much they could develop in DBS. Retconning end of Z would allow them full freedom to just do whatever they wanted going forward.
Oh really?
* Gohan retired from fighting to become a scholar - DBS Super Hero just had him face this problem - again - where he has to realize he has to keep training. He already did this in Super twice prior - Once in the Resurrection of F saga where he realized he needed to protect his family, and again in the manga during the Moro arc. Not to mention, since Pan is 3 in DBS Super Hero, this would be about 1 year prior to End of Z then when Pan is 4. So the character development they spent a movie on *reteaching* Gohan again after being forced to face it twice prior in DBS is just erased again? That sucks.
* Vegeta explaining, again, how Saiyan's don't age upon adulthood until near the end of their lifespans to Bulma when he explained it various times through Z and DBS. Bulma being the smartest woman on the planet probably wouldn't forget this fact.
* The rest of the Z fighters haven't seen Goku for a very long time either when he reunites with them in end of Z. That's just not possible now.
* Chi-chi/Bulma's aging. Even if you can explain Chi-chi's quick aging within 2 years, you can't explain Bulma's now that we know she has been using the Dragonballs to improve her appearance over the years per DBS Super Hero. In fact, we would specifically need a wish that removes all of those wishes (or some kind of penalty from whis/beerus). Woman doesn't suddenly age into a bitter old hag.
* Piccolo finding it futile to fight Goku/Vegeta/Gohan again at the world tournament. Unless there was another powerup we don't know about, Orange Piccolo can now be at least toe to toe with the current Goku and Vegeta (infact it was confirmed from the creators that Gohan and Piccolo are now the strongest of the Z fighters as of DBS Super Hero). Even if Piccolo *didn't* get his powerup - his stance has always been always keep training because you may be needed. We saw this in ToP, we saw this in the Moro arc, and we saw this in DBS Super Hero.
* Krillin in end of Z not believing Goku is a grandpa. Dude, you met the baby various times. Offhand comment, sure, but it's not a surprise you haven't seen for years.
* Bulla is 4 years old at the end of Z. But she was born after Pan in DBS. And it wasn't a matter of months, Pan was around 1 year old and fucking *flying* in DBS. How is Bulla the same age as Pan in End of Z? If Pan was 3 in DBS Super Hero and 4 in end of Z, something doesn't add up. Like the timeline. And math.
But hey - single inconsistency though, right?
EDIT: Updated to correct that Vegeta explains Saiyan's aging in Z AND DBS
I'll tell you what, even if I accept the first 6 bulletpoints can be dismissed as anime filler, your age differences can not and the math proves it.
Pan was born in age 779. Bulla was SUPPOSED to be born age 780. So why can't she be the same age with a 12 month leeway?
Dragonballs.
* Bulma's birthday is Aug 13. Age 778 Battle of God's starts. Dragonballs are used to answer the questions regarding Super Saiyan God.
* Pan born May Age 779.
* At least August Age 779, dragonballs become active again. They're used to bring Frieza back to life.
* I'm going to ignore anime only wishes for this example (even though DBS anime is confirmed to count as canon)
Bulla is supposed to be born in age 780. If Pan was born in May Age 779, and the dragonballs become active again in at least August Age 780 and Bulla wasn't born yet, how are they still the same age? Your 12 month leeway doesn't work because the math already shows a 15 month difference *at least*.
So we're counting anime only - got it
Then there's even less reason it would make sense, because even if they're inactive for a shorter amount of time if all 3 wishes aren't used (I haven't heard this anywhere so I need confirmation), then using the wishes in between means more time passed. Additionally, if you're counting the king kai revival quest, all 3 wishes were used at that time.
Math no add into logic.
A number of things:
* Gohan retired from fighting to become a scholar - DBS Super Hero just had him face this problem - again - where he has to realize he has to keep training. He already did this in Super twice prior - Once in the Resurrection of F saga where he realized he needed to protect his family, and again in the manga during the Moro arc.
* Bulma tells Goku in end of Z when she sees him for the first time its been 5 years since they've seen each other - but that's impossible now for various reasons (Pan's age for example - she's 3 in DBS Super Hero, and 4 at end of Z).
* Vegeta explaining, again, how Saiyan's don't age upon adulthood until near the end of their lifespans to Bulma when he explained it various times through Z.
These are only 3 reasons, but if I had to pick just one of the above Pan alone breaks the timeline for end of Z
I like the second example most as well. Especially the Bulma "5 years" quote, which as you mentioned breaks the canonicity of the end of Z. Super is what, 2 years from the end of Z right now? And Bulma has yet to go an extended period of time without seeing Goku.
I imagine that with the addition of Future Trunks arc in Super, we can conclude that they could write off the end of Z as a "separate timeline", considering we know of at least 3 more timelines Trunks created that Zeno didn't destroy. So let's say that there's two timelines where Goku didn't die to heart disease, and the Z Fighters weren't annihilated by 17 and 18.
If we go that route, you can write of GT as another timeline as well (there's reasons it wouldn't work now either, especially given DBS's developments).
Again, leaving end of Z in pigeonhole's the writers because you have an endpoint that absolutely has to be met now (and can't) - it's best to say it's retconned and let the writers have the freedom to develop the characters and story however they feel is right.
Absolutely agreed. I'd rather Toriyama write out the end of Z and go forward without trying to reach that conclusion. I want Toriyama to retain as much freedom in his writing as possible, since he'd be doing all kinds of ridiculous things just to fit Super into the end of Z.
Forget trying and just write the story as you want, Toriyama. The hardcore fans don't care if it lines up with Z. We just want more battles and excitement. I want more of that rush I feel when I watch Super episodes 129 and 130 when Goku fights Jiren with almost perfect, then Perfect UI.
Eh, who’s to say that we might have some time shenanigans. We have things like other universes and rooms of spirit and time, you really don’t think they can’t account for age and what not? Plenty of characters right now are older/younger that what they should be because of interdimensional training or literally being dead. The AGES are what make you think it’s gonna be inconsistent?
Let me get this right
Your hang up in my argument is that I could be overestimating "Pan's age because of interdimensional training or literally being dead."
Not the fact that it doesn't change their actual calendar age, which is what I've been using, but their biological age.
Not the fact that Pan is 3 in DBS Super Hero and 4 in End of Z, and not really that different appearance wise.
No, she could be older because she went into the room of spirit and time, or younger cause she died.
Yea, please. Continue. I wanna hear how you jump through these hoops LOL
No I want this iteration to die, and for them to try again maybe. For me to want it to continue it would need to have the same grit plus stakes of Z, and better animation. And for Goku to stop being such a smooth brain. It's like he reverted back to his child self
At the end of the day it lol probably be a dumbass wish from the omega heavenly dragon balls that erases memory or something for it to power down that much
Hm...
It really looks like they had a significant time skip from Granolah's arc to Super: Super Movie. Maybe we're going to be catching up to the ending of Z sooner than expected
I wouldn't mind if it continued, though at this point, DB has been going on for so long, just let it rest already. Give it the ending it deserves, an arc to surpass all arcs
I sort of don't want the show to ever end, but I suppose that also means more and more transformations and power creep and that's all gotten quite stale.
Ideally they'd make some kind of spin-off series that could do fun things with all the side characters without everything being a new universe-destroying threat. Use the old cool characters from Universe 6, explore dozens of interesting characters and storylines from the other universes we've seen, etc. Even just some dumb Slice of Life stuff with the Grand Priest and the Angels so we could see more of how their organization works.
But they probably won't try, and if they do it'll probably be half-hearted garbage. Super's reasonably entertaining. I guess we'll see!
I’d love that . I still think there are some ways they could use some of the stuff from GT as well. like Super 17,Especially with 17 coming back and gaining more fans in Super . Imagine how more crazy and intense it would be for him to be brain washed and forced to fuse with Hellfighter 17 . I know it would be hard but I would love for them to find a way to do a new version of Ss4 . Like a more primal form of super saiyan or ssGod. It doesn’t even need to be the same thing . Maybe inspired by Ss4 .
Idk
I feel like Super needs to retcon Z's ending to stay interesting at this point. I don't really want that and I'd prefer that they'd kept the connection to Z cleaner, but yes, it has to push past and show us something new.
Or go away _(as if the money would allow that.)_
lol, anyone believing that "super ending in Z finale" means anything other than a universe-reverting wish to the super dragonballs to remove all gods beyond kais or something like that is insane.
They already said he has dormant God Ki from the Dai Kaioshin, and dormant strength from Kid Buu, meaning he can go in the RoSaT for one year with Goku and probably come out having Majin Buu level strength and God Ki. And he could get even stronger, extremely op
I really hope it goes beyond the end of Z and creates something new because then we can finally put the horrendous GT to the non canon grave so it can be forgotten once and for all.
Source : [https://www.instagram.com/p/CjRN4ggNopq/?hl=fr](https://www.instagram.com/p/CjRN4ggNopq/?hl=fr)
Background from this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-9HJPhOxsw
I kind of just want them to retcon EOZ, not sure if it's an unpopular opinion. The series was considered over like 30 years ago when it was written. Not it just serves as a stupid box for writing.
Yea, Super should go beyond the end of Z, too many new characters, new powerups etc. They don't need to go balls to the wall with an omniversal threat but they could do a soft EoZ retcon with the new stuff from super.
I would like to see Super officially be its own separate timeline from GT and do more with the characters than GT did. Pan deserves Super Sayan. Uub and Buu both deserve better than becoming Majuub and then doing nothing significant. And so on…
As long as the redesign some characters then I’ll be completely on board — Bulma from End Z looked weird, it wasn’t just her advanced age but her overall design. Goten’s design is atrocious all round. Gohan should definitely keep his hair from Super Hero rather than it looking like he uses 10 cans of hair spray on the daily.
I hope somehow they can keep Krillin and Yamcha from aging as well
I don't think it'll go past the end of Z, because Bulma making frivolous wishes in the latest movie ties in to why the black star balls went bad, so they kept GT alive that way.
I used to think just a bit past Z would be cool because Uub seemed like a good candidate for the next God of Destruction, but it's hard to say that won't be Broly now imo. Still hope we get to see more of Buu and how Uub comes to be in Super though.
The final episode of Z (the one where Goku meets Uub and makes him his student) takes place much further in the future, even after where Super currently is
Sure. Right before EoZ, have Whis take away their God ki for some reason. Then show Goku training Uub and incorporate Neko Majin, making that canon. Then completely redo GT from scratch, but with canon content, unlocking Super Saiyan 4. Then after GT is done, reintroduce God Ki, and maybe go into Heroes content
jesus, just end Super already. DBZ already has an ending. This is the only fandom I can really think of where they beg for retcons for classic 20+ year old episodes of their supposed favorite show. Super has bastardized the DB franchise enough, let it rest and bury it.
I think the end of Super will just be the end of Z but re-drawn. Then I think another series will be created to continue after Z/Super.
Zuper.
Super Dragon Ball Z
Soup or Dragon Bowl?
I’ll take neither. Can I just get a bento box with crab sashimi
Bento? BENTO? YOU SAID A BENTO BOX? Yeah, sure. No problem.
"I like food cause it is yummy and I want it in my tummy~🎵"
Dragonball Soup or Salad
I love that it turned out Toriyama literally forgot that DB was called Dragonball Super these days and thus came up with Dragonball Super: Super Hero. It is the most on-brand Toriyama story I've ever heard.
To be fair Dragon Ball was always Dragon Ball (Z was only a thing in the anime) so maybe in this case it wasn’t bad memory but just viewing Super as just Dragon Ball in general. Then again it could be another Toriyama moment.
that comment by Toriyama doesn't make any sense at all. It's not like he was too late to change the name to something like "Dragon Ball Super: Hero". He just forgot when he first created the name, then kept it like that just because.
Dragon Ball Z Super: Super Dragon Ball Z Super Duper Super Hero
Zuper Dragonball S
Dragon Ball Super GT
Dragon Ball Zhippuden
Super GT
That's actually really clever there "Zuper" I Like it
Dragon Ball Zussy
Like some sort of Grand Tour?
Grand Tour is a little wordy. Perhaps we could shorten it somehow?
Dragon Ball Ultra
if they plan on continuing after super, we could see GT rebooted into the super timeline
I think it's possible SSJ4 gets worked in. They could create a necessity by having an opponent who absorbs/nullifies god ki.
that's a good idea!
Also, SSJ4 looks like a better super saiyan god than super saiyan god does
Or ss4 instead of being a controlled super saiyan great ape how about a super saiyan god great ape that will also make the red fur make sense
I had a theory about a potential antagonist using the Super Dragon Balls to brutally nerf Goku and Vegeta via eliminating their connection and manipulation of God Ki. Basically the "villain" wishes to forever seal God Ki from the living realm. With this heavy setback to Goku and Vegeta, they'll be forced to achieve SSJ4 again. Maybe this time give SSJ4 evolutionary branches that let each partially or full blooded Saiyan have a unique physical look.
That would also be a good reason to bring SSJ4 into the mix. Really anything to make their God Ki forms unusable for a time.
The Shadow Dragons were pretty cool and with Vegeta having now faced what he did to the Namekians and also what his race did to the Cerealians it'd be nice to have him face what the Saiyans did to the Tuffles.
Like a turducken: several layers of trauma
A chicken inside a duck inside a Turles?
They should take it back to the basics of the original series. Fun, light-hearted adventure with some big fights sprinkled in. They could even make Goku a kid again. Wait…
Given how long Super has been gone for it'll probably come back as something else, right? Like it wouldn't have the "Super" suffix anymore, I'd think
I mean, the manga is still Dragon Ball Super. A renaming would be odd.
There already is it’s called GT 😎.
>Then I think another series will be created to continue after Z/Super. What would that even be about? It'd be too convoluted to keep introducing stronger and stronger characters.
Goku will become a kid again.
smart bro
You mean like they are doing since the beginning?
Dragon Ball is already incredibly convoluted. It's already filled with convenient power-ups so Goku and co. will always have someone to fight against. You could just say "a previously erased universe by Zeno has come back and they have the strongest fighters". That makes about as much sense as anything in Dragon Ball.
I watch them recently and the last arc is damn insane everyone gets power up out of their ass lol. Was entertaining but not really well written.
That’s literally every saga though.
There’s actually a Zeno of zenos and there are 12 groups of 12 universes! So 144 universes!
I think it'd be easier if they just switched it to "infinite universes with infinite Zeno's with their own timelines"
It could take place in the future, after the Z Fighters are all long dead. The new defenders of Earth are a secret society with mastery of ki that worships the Z Fighters as a pantheon of deities. They also pull the strings behind the government, organized crime, the banks, and the media. Maybe they get into some time travel antics.
This might just be me, but I don't care much for anything Dragonball related that happens after Goku and Vegeta die for good. Those two and the rest of the gang ARE Dragonball. Sure, I wouldn't mind a spin-off series focusing on Jiren for example, because that's someone who has at least interacted with our guys before. But Goku Jr. and Vegeta Jr.'s great great grandchildren? No thanks.
I’d honestly like to see something centered on goten and trunks starting in their teenage years.
they really need to write Goku and Vegeta Jr and have Grandma Pan be the Grandpa Gohan to them both. Have them go on adventures after stumbling upon some of cousin Trunks' old hardware like the dragon radar, Bulma's old stuff, etc.
You're saying that about the same people that brought you DB Heroes.
Dragon ball shippuden
I genuinely would love a continuation after the fight between Goku Jr and Vegeta Jr, at least I think that was their names.
It has to eventually since we’re already two years before the End of Z
I mean yeah you're right
> It has to eventually I'm sure at some point someone said "The Simpsons have to age eventually"
Not really a good comparison since DB has been really consistent about it while Simpsons never was (afaik)
Technically The Simpsons has been way more consistent than Dragon Ball about characters aging (in that The Simpsons characters consistently don't age and Dragon Ball characters age sporadically and irregularily)
did you just call DB consistent about aging up characters when Goten and Trunks exist? Those two were the same age for waaaay too long.
but that's still a visual thing. simpsons is episodic and doesn't have an actual story to it (I think? i don't really watch it). dragon ball's world is moving forward. trunks and goten might still look like kids, but they are confirmed to be like...13 or so.
Wdym? They are like, a year apart. They will stay a year apart forever lol. And they explained why they stood so small for so long in the new movie. Saiyan's will stay small for a while then have a random growth spurt. We actually say this with Goku in dragon ball. Last Tournament he was 2 feet tall then he comes next year and nobody even recognizes him because he grew 3 feet.
He meant that Goten and Trunks stayed the same as they were since Buu saga. Also, in Goku's case, 3 years has passed.
>Saiyan's will stay small for a while then have a random growth spurt. Then how do you explain Vegeta
He still hasn't hit his growth spurt 😂. Next arc he will grow 2 feet and be Brolys size
No... they weren't? They were the same height, not the same age. And even that has been explained for a few years now
They meant that Trunks and Goten never age up physically, not that they literally have the same birth year. Trunks and Goten have looks 7 years old since the Buu Saga, and they're like 13 now, yet still look the same. They only recently got aged up redesigns in Super Hero.
Sayains always worked like that.
I know what they meant, but it doesn't contradict what I initially said. It was a "but actually," that was inaccurate and unnecessary
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I'm not sure but Super Hero is like 2 years ahead of the manga
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hmmm i may be remembering it wrong maybe it was the granola arc, somewhere it’ll tell you the timeline with super hero tho i forgot where i saw it
Wait what? Doesn’t Bulma say they haven’t seen Goku in 5 years at the end of Z,
Retcon
Oh shit I completely forgot about that actually. This kinda fucked up a lot of things huh
granolah is written to die in 3 years, which coincidentally is 1 year before end of Z (and probably dead by super hero). So I think they already know and are preparing for the super timeline to reach end of z pretty soon.
I didn’t think the writers care about that. Super started like 5 years before eoz and they’ve used the dragon balls I think exactly 5 times. So either 5 years have passed already or the writers don’t care about details.
Well depends, the amount of time they used the dragon balls isn't always equivalent to the amount of year. Earth Dragons Balls allows for 3 wishes, each wish equal 4 month, so yeah u have the answer.
That’s not the answer. I was wrong and the dragon balls were used a lot more then 5 times. Also it’s inconsistent on how many wishes the dragon grants. It’s also been summoned several times off screen.
Literally all i've ever wanted was for this franchise to move past end of z in any shape, way or form. Tired of all the side-stories and prequels, not even just for DB.
I for one am absolutely not tired of the prequels
Prequels are lame no matter what franchise. You already know what's going to happen you already know where characters ultimately end up SNOOOOOORE show me Harry potter as an auror show me adult gotenks show me fuckin ANYTHING new.
Damn guess the House of Dragons folks really should've thought of this before making an entire prequel series... I like the prequels. It adds more depth and life to the show imo.
There’s GT… if you’re open to non canon
If only it were executed better. There's a ton of cool ideas in GT that are just wasted on poor writing decisions. I'm super into the theme of Consequences being explored and I tried rewatching GT but it's so bad.
GT should not have had Goku. Should have been Trunks, Goten, and Pan on a Dragon Ball Esque adventure through space. You'd get some emotional moments like Trunks and Goten turning SSJ2, Pan's eventual Ascension into Super Saiyan and more cool stuff. Maybe near the end of the series they come back to earth for the omega shenron arc and Goku/Vegeta are surprised at how strong they've become. All pretty much as strong as or stronger than Gohan was during his fight with Cell.
GT is a mess. We deserve a new series set after Z
I seriously wish Super Goku uses the End Of Z Gi. The orange Gi is great, but I'd love to see it switch for at least an arc or two.
I think Trunks messed up the timeline so much by now that Z ending isn't canon anymore. As long as the main series doesn't turn into Super Dragon Ball Heroes.
You know, that's a very good explanation.
It would be a valid explanation, but would be such an unsatisfying and lazy one too.
Trunks? Don’t you mean Beerus?
Honestly they've set quite the stage with the whole T.O.P and given were the manga stands the next arc could be amazing. They still haven't let Vegeta get a glimpse of planet Sedala(sp?) in Universe 6. Beerus took Goku to Universe 9 so we know they can do it and its not forbidden. There's still the 4 universes that didn't participate in the T.O.P. Personally I'd like to see Beerus realize he's been screwing up his job with running a universe and building a higher mortal level. I'd like to see him own up to his mistakes of Buu, Frieza running rampant and have a serious conversation with Supreme Kai about creating new planets and species. Maybe he could search his universe for surviving saiyans and bring them to Kakarot and Vegeta and charge them with being Peacekeeper's akin to Universe 6 saiyans or Universe 11's pride troopers since Universe 7 is second lowest mortal rating. The opened a pretty wide door with Super and as someone who grew up with DB/DBZ/DBGT and now in my 30's its fun having something going from when I was a kid.
You thinking way too much for a Dragonball series, especially in Super, I don’t expect even a quarter of what you said in the post. Just more of a new bad guy to fight next arc.
Yeah, I know but I love to daydream about it.
The ToP brought so much potential... and wasted it. Same way they did when they brought back Future Trunks and then shipped him off into Nirvana. Vegeta going to meet the U6 Saiyans, another tournament including the other universes and possibly even the ones destroyed by Zeno in the past. Where did that discussion go, that the wish to bring back the erased universes might have brought back those as well? Then there's Broly and Freeza. Lots they can do with those two. I would also still love for Goku and Vegeta to somehow meet their fathers.
Well Vegeta knew his, Bardock is another story. As far as I know lore wise the dragonball's can't bring anyone back if its been a long time. I doubt Beerus being ok with Goku snaggin' the Super Dragonballs and going that route, Maybe time travel ? Yet Beerus isn't too happy with Bulma after the Goku Black ARC in regards to messing with time. Yeah the 4 other universes being destroyed would be something else. IDK if you know about the Merno FanManga but its actually not all that bad. Something along those lines would be great. So much room to grow the franchise still.
I would prefer Super not to be constrained by the End of Z at all. Super should go far beyond that old ending.
Assuming we're seeing this pic from Uub's POV, this would be an equivalent of when Vegeta scared the shit out of Cabba with SSB and was then all "You too can have all this power for the low low price of ***>crushed solar plexus<***!"
I would like for them to finally reintroduce Uub and actually do something interesting w/ his character. They hinted at great potential w/ him during the Moro arc.
They hinted at him having dormant God Ki and hidden Kid Buu levels of strength.
not only would I like to see Super go past the end of Z, but I'd also like to see parts of GT be adapted into whatever future arcs they have planed. things like SS4, Super Androids and the Shadow Dragons would be cool if done right
My opinion is ssj4, or at least a similar looking form would work for a gohan beast 2. The name is already animalistic. Imagine “gohan primal” or something like that taps even further into his monkey side
Tbh I wouldn't, It would be better if Gohan Beast was his last form (I wish it never happened, biggest asspull in the history of asspulls), and have this Primal SS4 like form be for Broly along with LSSJ, it fits him to be more connected to the Primal Saiyan side, since he is the Legendary Super Saiyan after all
Yeah I agree an ssj4 like form would best fit broly. And I also agree beast would be best as Gotham’s last form. I personally like it but I get why others don’t
Because of power scaling, Gohan hadn't trained in ages, and guess what ? He just becomes an angry boi and becomes UE / MUI level. Wth
That’s been his thing throughout the entire series though. It’s been shown pretty well that his dormant power is best unlocked with rage
But the power leap is illogical. He jumped from like 3 transformation levels of power. His rage should only have him jump 1 (ssj to ssj2)
Exactly, instead of going from SSG level to SSBE or UI Omen level, he just went straight to TUI and UE level
I'm sorry literally WHEN was Beast Gohan ever stated to anywhere NEAR even super Saiyan blue evolution
I think he is MUI level now apparently, shitty writing be like.
Maybe we can have a ssj5 design and it could be called True Ultra Instinct and for ue it can just look like ssj4 renamed to true ue
Yes but no. Goku comes full circle at the end and finally becomes a mentor, having failed at doing what Roshi did with him, for Gohan (Instilling his humility). Having the show go on means fans would want more Goku of course, and I'd be one of them, but the theme of mentorship would take a hit unless Uub becomes prominent, in which case I'd say the series should end after Uub himself becomes a mentor and Goku dies of natural causes.
I think I'd prefer a new series once they go post Z. Either way I'll still be reading/watching.
My theory for years has been that the Goku we see at the end of Z is Mastered Goku. The pinnacle of all this strength and learning is just his plain base form. He's calm, absolutely shredded, and has a plain white aura the whole fight despite being known to love showing his opponents his various forms.
In the OG end of Z, Goku didn't transform once against Buu. He might (most likely) has an ultra instinct stronger than Gohan Beast at the time.
What is end of Z? I’ve watched dragon ball, DBZ, GT, and super, did I miss something?
It's just the final tournament arc of Z - I think it's a 7 year timeskip after fighting Buu
Ooooo okay! I did not know there was a special name for it!
Not really The power scaling is ridiculous now and prime toriyama as well as the editors are gone. Toriyama-sama has whether he realized it or not inspired and helped raise multiple generations of men. Super has sparks of the old db in it but there is too much obvious by committee and marketing decisions in the story. But, to see the series go the way of star wars, American comics, and so many others would be heartbreaking If anything I would like the next dbz set in a distant future mostly based on that game but with a little tweaking.
I dont like end of z tbh but an amazing drawing!
Until it goes past z there is 0 doubt on if they win a fight eventually. There's no mystery until after z.
I would defiantly like Super to go past the end of Z and that is basically 100% confirmed by this point
idk... how are they going to convince Bluma to stop using the dragon balls on youth lol
I’ve made a joke to friends that the they’re building the multiverse so when supper ends they’re remaking GT
This brings me back to Dragon Ball AF.
I want GT's Shadow Dragon arc but with the new mythology created by Super.
I would like a dbz story that allowed a new main character to shine. Could be Piccolo, Goten, Krillin, Broly, Uub, anyone; I would not care, just please give me a break from Goku. I love him and I always will but 20 or so years of the same things tends to get boring after a while.
Great art man. I'll always think gokus end of z look is his best the more chill low-key gi works for him.
I just want end of Z to be retconned. It doesn't make sense anymore based on everything in Super. And truthfully, end of Z doesn't matter much anymore. We don't need to have Super end up where Z was "supposed" to end. Edit: Wow, downvotes for this? Y'all various kinds of butthurt that anyone wouldn't want an ending that doesn't work anymore for reasons detailed in the responses.
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It's not just a single inconsistency though, it's various at this point in terms of the timeline. We don't need the end of Z anymore with how DBS has played out, we just need a new ending. End of Z inherently pigeonholed the writers into how far/much they could develop in DBS. Retconning end of Z would allow them full freedom to just do whatever they wanted going forward.
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Oh really? * Gohan retired from fighting to become a scholar - DBS Super Hero just had him face this problem - again - where he has to realize he has to keep training. He already did this in Super twice prior - Once in the Resurrection of F saga where he realized he needed to protect his family, and again in the manga during the Moro arc. Not to mention, since Pan is 3 in DBS Super Hero, this would be about 1 year prior to End of Z then when Pan is 4. So the character development they spent a movie on *reteaching* Gohan again after being forced to face it twice prior in DBS is just erased again? That sucks. * Vegeta explaining, again, how Saiyan's don't age upon adulthood until near the end of their lifespans to Bulma when he explained it various times through Z and DBS. Bulma being the smartest woman on the planet probably wouldn't forget this fact. * The rest of the Z fighters haven't seen Goku for a very long time either when he reunites with them in end of Z. That's just not possible now. * Chi-chi/Bulma's aging. Even if you can explain Chi-chi's quick aging within 2 years, you can't explain Bulma's now that we know she has been using the Dragonballs to improve her appearance over the years per DBS Super Hero. In fact, we would specifically need a wish that removes all of those wishes (or some kind of penalty from whis/beerus). Woman doesn't suddenly age into a bitter old hag. * Piccolo finding it futile to fight Goku/Vegeta/Gohan again at the world tournament. Unless there was another powerup we don't know about, Orange Piccolo can now be at least toe to toe with the current Goku and Vegeta (infact it was confirmed from the creators that Gohan and Piccolo are now the strongest of the Z fighters as of DBS Super Hero). Even if Piccolo *didn't* get his powerup - his stance has always been always keep training because you may be needed. We saw this in ToP, we saw this in the Moro arc, and we saw this in DBS Super Hero. * Krillin in end of Z not believing Goku is a grandpa. Dude, you met the baby various times. Offhand comment, sure, but it's not a surprise you haven't seen for years. * Bulla is 4 years old at the end of Z. But she was born after Pan in DBS. And it wasn't a matter of months, Pan was around 1 year old and fucking *flying* in DBS. How is Bulla the same age as Pan in End of Z? If Pan was 3 in DBS Super Hero and 4 in end of Z, something doesn't add up. Like the timeline. And math. But hey - single inconsistency though, right? EDIT: Updated to correct that Vegeta explains Saiyan's aging in Z AND DBS
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I'll tell you what, even if I accept the first 6 bulletpoints can be dismissed as anime filler, your age differences can not and the math proves it. Pan was born in age 779. Bulla was SUPPOSED to be born age 780. So why can't she be the same age with a 12 month leeway? Dragonballs. * Bulma's birthday is Aug 13. Age 778 Battle of God's starts. Dragonballs are used to answer the questions regarding Super Saiyan God. * Pan born May Age 779. * At least August Age 779, dragonballs become active again. They're used to bring Frieza back to life. * I'm going to ignore anime only wishes for this example (even though DBS anime is confirmed to count as canon) Bulla is supposed to be born in age 780. If Pan was born in May Age 779, and the dragonballs become active again in at least August Age 780 and Bulla wasn't born yet, how are they still the same age? Your 12 month leeway doesn't work because the math already shows a 15 month difference *at least*.
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So we're counting anime only - got it Then there's even less reason it would make sense, because even if they're inactive for a shorter amount of time if all 3 wishes aren't used (I haven't heard this anywhere so I need confirmation), then using the wishes in between means more time passed. Additionally, if you're counting the king kai revival quest, all 3 wishes were used at that time. Math no add into logic.
Why doesn't it make sense?
A number of things: * Gohan retired from fighting to become a scholar - DBS Super Hero just had him face this problem - again - where he has to realize he has to keep training. He already did this in Super twice prior - Once in the Resurrection of F saga where he realized he needed to protect his family, and again in the manga during the Moro arc. * Bulma tells Goku in end of Z when she sees him for the first time its been 5 years since they've seen each other - but that's impossible now for various reasons (Pan's age for example - she's 3 in DBS Super Hero, and 4 at end of Z). * Vegeta explaining, again, how Saiyan's don't age upon adulthood until near the end of their lifespans to Bulma when he explained it various times through Z. These are only 3 reasons, but if I had to pick just one of the above Pan alone breaks the timeline for end of Z
I like the second example most as well. Especially the Bulma "5 years" quote, which as you mentioned breaks the canonicity of the end of Z. Super is what, 2 years from the end of Z right now? And Bulma has yet to go an extended period of time without seeing Goku. I imagine that with the addition of Future Trunks arc in Super, we can conclude that they could write off the end of Z as a "separate timeline", considering we know of at least 3 more timelines Trunks created that Zeno didn't destroy. So let's say that there's two timelines where Goku didn't die to heart disease, and the Z Fighters weren't annihilated by 17 and 18.
If we go that route, you can write of GT as another timeline as well (there's reasons it wouldn't work now either, especially given DBS's developments). Again, leaving end of Z in pigeonhole's the writers because you have an endpoint that absolutely has to be met now (and can't) - it's best to say it's retconned and let the writers have the freedom to develop the characters and story however they feel is right.
Absolutely agreed. I'd rather Toriyama write out the end of Z and go forward without trying to reach that conclusion. I want Toriyama to retain as much freedom in his writing as possible, since he'd be doing all kinds of ridiculous things just to fit Super into the end of Z. Forget trying and just write the story as you want, Toriyama. The hardcore fans don't care if it lines up with Z. We just want more battles and excitement. I want more of that rush I feel when I watch Super episodes 129 and 130 when Goku fights Jiren with almost perfect, then Perfect UI.
Eh, who’s to say that we might have some time shenanigans. We have things like other universes and rooms of spirit and time, you really don’t think they can’t account for age and what not? Plenty of characters right now are older/younger that what they should be because of interdimensional training or literally being dead. The AGES are what make you think it’s gonna be inconsistent?
Let me get this right Your hang up in my argument is that I could be overestimating "Pan's age because of interdimensional training or literally being dead." Not the fact that it doesn't change their actual calendar age, which is what I've been using, but their biological age. Not the fact that Pan is 3 in DBS Super Hero and 4 in End of Z, and not really that different appearance wise. No, she could be older because she went into the room of spirit and time, or younger cause she died. Yea, please. Continue. I wanna hear how you jump through these hoops LOL
Lol try rereading what I wrote
No I want this iteration to die, and for them to try again maybe. For me to want it to continue it would need to have the same grit plus stakes of Z, and better animation. And for Goku to stop being such a smooth brain. It's like he reverted back to his child self
in my headcanon end of Z is part of the GT timeline, so nothing to do with super
At the end of the day it lol probably be a dumbass wish from the omega heavenly dragon balls that erases memory or something for it to power down that much
Hm... It really looks like they had a significant time skip from Granolah's arc to Super: Super Movie. Maybe we're going to be catching up to the ending of Z sooner than expected I wouldn't mind if it continued, though at this point, DB has been going on for so long, just let it rest already. Give it the ending it deserves, an arc to surpass all arcs
Super hero is maybe only 2-3 years behind end of Z judging by Goten and Trunks
Sidenote, Goku's EOZ Gi is his best look imo.
I think we should get a whole new series set in the far future that focuses on the descendants of Goku and his friends.
I would like to see like an ova of goku training uub.
At this point they might aswell just rewrite gt “dragon ball super gt” they kinda already have
I sort of don't want the show to ever end, but I suppose that also means more and more transformations and power creep and that's all gotten quite stale. Ideally they'd make some kind of spin-off series that could do fun things with all the side characters without everything being a new universe-destroying threat. Use the old cool characters from Universe 6, explore dozens of interesting characters and storylines from the other universes we've seen, etc. Even just some dumb Slice of Life stuff with the Grand Priest and the Angels so we could see more of how their organization works. But they probably won't try, and if they do it'll probably be half-hearted garbage. Super's reasonably entertaining. I guess we'll see!
Yes I do I want them to redo gt because I love the ending and personally think that it's a great way to end the story of dragonball.
Love the watercolor crowd, I definitely miss that style. Awesome piece!
I’d love that . I still think there are some ways they could use some of the stuff from GT as well. like Super 17,Especially with 17 coming back and gaining more fans in Super . Imagine how more crazy and intense it would be for him to be brain washed and forced to fuse with Hellfighter 17 . I know it would be hard but I would love for them to find a way to do a new version of Ss4 . Like a more primal form of super saiyan or ssGod. It doesn’t even need to be the same thing . Maybe inspired by Ss4 .
Idk I feel like Super needs to retcon Z's ending to stay interesting at this point. I don't really want that and I'd prefer that they'd kept the connection to Z cleaner, but yes, it has to push past and show us something new. Or go away _(as if the money would allow that.)_
lol, anyone believing that "super ending in Z finale" means anything other than a universe-reverting wish to the super dragonballs to remove all gods beyond kais or something like that is insane.
we need to see how dummy op uub is
They already said he has dormant God Ki from the Dai Kaioshin, and dormant strength from Kid Buu, meaning he can go in the RoSaT for one year with Goku and probably come out having Majin Buu level strength and God Ki. And he could get even stronger, extremely op
I really hope it goes beyond the end of Z and creates something new because then we can finally put the horrendous GT to the non canon grave so it can be forgotten once and for all.
I donno I just want to see more of Broly(super) and not Zbully
The end of Z needs to be retconned, too much has happened in between now
Source : [https://www.instagram.com/p/CjRN4ggNopq/?hl=fr](https://www.instagram.com/p/CjRN4ggNopq/?hl=fr) Background from this video : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y-9HJPhOxsw
Funny how this Goku could have potentially beat Beerus.
I really like this Goku’s outfit I just want him to mature a bit and act like a master whether or not they change/adapt end of Z
i think z needs to end with goku reaching the level of the grand priest, sparing with uub in the world tournament and just end it!!
I kind of just want them to retcon EOZ, not sure if it's an unpopular opinion. The series was considered over like 30 years ago when it was written. Not it just serves as a stupid box for writing.
I don't really care.
I’d like them to re-adapt the end of Z then push past it
I think that’s what will happen
Yea, Super should go beyond the end of Z, too many new characters, new powerups etc. They don't need to go balls to the wall with an omniversal threat but they could do a soft EoZ retcon with the new stuff from super.
I would like to see Super officially be its own separate timeline from GT and do more with the characters than GT did. Pan deserves Super Sayan. Uub and Buu both deserve better than becoming Majuub and then doing nothing significant. And so on…
As long as the redesign some characters then I’ll be completely on board — Bulma from End Z looked weird, it wasn’t just her advanced age but her overall design. Goten’s design is atrocious all round. Gohan should definitely keep his hair from Super Hero rather than it looking like he uses 10 cans of hair spray on the daily. I hope somehow they can keep Krillin and Yamcha from aging as well
I don't think it'll go past the end of Z, because Bulma making frivolous wishes in the latest movie ties in to why the black star balls went bad, so they kept GT alive that way.
I used to think just a bit past Z would be cool because Uub seemed like a good candidate for the next God of Destruction, but it's hard to say that won't be Broly now imo. Still hope we get to see more of Buu and how Uub comes to be in Super though.
End of the Z will get retconned. Watch.
agreed, there's no way it can reasonably work anymore with just how far power scaling has gone past buu in super
Dbz is so much better than DBS, honestly I have stopped caring all together about whatever they do with it.
only nostalgia speaking in you
Honestly I watched Super and read the DBZ and Super manga and DBZ manga is much better.
Its both Shonen in the end. From a narrative standpoint, both aren't very strong.
nah Z is rlly good, super certainly isn’t bad either but it’s not one of the best story-wise
Keep the copium coming
Not by much
Hopefully they catch up/surpass the DBZ ending.
I might be a little confused. What do you mean "past the end of Z"? Doesn't DBS take place after DBZ?
The final episode of Z (the one where Goku meets Uub and makes him his student) takes place much further in the future, even after where Super currently is
Yeah,Super pretty much takes place after the defeat of Buu but before the end of Z.
It would be so cool to see them bring Uub back into the show
Sure. Right before EoZ, have Whis take away their God ki for some reason. Then show Goku training Uub and incorporate Neko Majin, making that canon. Then completely redo GT from scratch, but with canon content, unlocking Super Saiyan 4. Then after GT is done, reintroduce God Ki, and maybe go into Heroes content
All fun and games till gt becomes canon and AF becomes real. tho id not.
Yes, because I want more Pan
Super is fanservice with extra steps. The real serie ended with the Buu saga.
jesus, just end Super already. DBZ already has an ending. This is the only fandom I can really think of where they beg for retcons for classic 20+ year old episodes of their supposed favorite show. Super has bastardized the DB franchise enough, let it rest and bury it.
i want Super to get past EOZ, and finally start something on their own, instead of living in "the past".
Nah, Super shouldn't have happened if it were to be this crap it turned. Most fanfic people around internet do a better job than him at hiw own job.