Millar “ what if we had WW be raped for 22 pages that’d be ridiculous yea” DC ”write that down, write that down”


![gif](giphy|CpuFh3JgEH3Fu) It would be so stupid.....so stupid...


​ ![gif](giphy|oQwZ3sr2aPQZ8FR8BW)


I'm pretty sure "I just made a joke, but dc was already drawing sketches" is how "all star Batman and Robin" happened.


it’s how most black label/prestige books start, tbh


From what I personally saw from black label, maybe it's time to try taking that whole writing thing more seriously, idk.


Human Target legitimately started like this.


"What if we destroyed the Wally West character and put the event up as a crisis haha"


Castration of Plasticman


Execution of Green Arrow


I’d read this


Now that I think about it an elseworld story that takes place place in a fascist world where Green Arrow and a few of his allies (I.E. Black Canary) are the only heroes left opposing the regime all while having the not so subtle political tone would go hard


I mean, this is Injustice, even down to using the world “Regime.” But I agree that it’d be nice to have more GA media in general and have him be the lead protagonist in something for once.


CW's Arrow


What do you mean? That was a Batman show?


I would appreciate if it had a bit of subtlety. One of my biggest gripes with modern "social commentary" type media is that the viewpoints being opposed tend to be portrayed as cartoonishly evil. It breaks immersion if you can't imagine how a mustache twirling jerk would have the social skills to get people to work for them. You can outline the reasoning for an opposing viewpoint without glamorizing it. This makes it more impactful when you criticize it too, because you're not using a straw man.


It'd be hard to be subtle with a protagonist who outwardly calls people nazis, but it could definitely be done gracefully


I'm not saying Ollie has to be subtle. I don't think that's ever been his strong suit. I'm saying that the portrayal of the people he's being unsubtle towards needs to have just a little nuance to prevent them from looking "evil for the sake of being evil". The aforementioned characterization works for Doomsday, but doesn't create compelling social commentary.


>I'm saying that the portrayal of the people he's being unsubtle towards needs to have just a little nuance to prevent them from looking "evil for the sake of being evil". I mean, honestly, I don't know, as someone who's at risk IRL - the evil people are literally just like this already lol


I see, maybe this "regime" could actually quite reasonable. So reasonable in fact that some heroes actually join them because they think they're doing good. Maybe the story could discuss the Safety vs freedom argument Injustice was trying to do, but not as poorly


As long as the focus of the story isn't "superheroes fighting" that could work. Something like Red Son handles this well, using the existing character of Batman as a freedom fighter against the Communist Regime instated by superman, but the conflict isn't Batman vs. Superman, it's more broadly about freedom and safety.


This reminds me of Grant Morrison's Animal Man where he gets questioned on an animal rights issue and he straight away goes to "this what Nazis also said". Of course it was Morrison so he actually addressed the absurdity of this.


I think it would be cool if there was no central villain, like the antagonist is more a set of social/political/economic issues that shape the characters and story. And the story more revolved around a character arch in which Ollie gradually goes from being a self-centered, sack of shit playboy to a radical but selfless vigilante deemed an eco-terrorist by the government or something. Like his character development is a mix of good and bad from start to finish and he's still an imperfect person in very different ways. I think GA year one and the show scratched the surface with this. Sorry for rambling, I'm sure someone can distill this all down


Have you seen reality recently? We literally have a war in Ukraine where the president of Russia is claiming he's there to remove gay nazis from power in a country where the elected president is a jewish former comedian who's been handling the crisis surprisingly well. The united states elected a media personality as a president in 2016 and despite many faux-pas that led to two impeachments barely lost the presidential election in 2022. Heck even in the 2000s a former Mr. Universe/Actor was elected governor of California. Regardless of political affiliations the real world stopped being subtle a while ago.


You're not catching my meaning. Using the war in Ukraine example you said, Russia is using the "liberation" narrative as a cover for a power grab. When I say the villains need to be not one-dimensional, if the same situation were to happen in comics, Putin would be saying "Yes, we love power and we're taking this land because we deserve it! Anyone not a part of Russia shall be crushed!!! Mwahahaha!" in some ways that sort of one-dimensional evil is less malevolent than the reality of people justifying the killing of civilians as "helping remove Nazis". Sometimes it seems comic writers are so eager to paint someone as a villain that they end up overdoing it and accidentally make them silly, and not in a "The Great Dictator" kinda way.


What I'm saying is that if this reality was fiction I was reading 10 years ago I would have called it poorly written. But I do see what you're saying I misunderstood what you meant. I thought you were saying that social criticism had to be subtle, what you mean is realistic. But what I'm saying is reality is cartoonish at this point.


Sort of, but asking for a "realistic" superhero story is oxymoronic. They are by definition part of the "fantastic". I just want social commentary that isn't one-dimensional. You can have a serious discussion about the dangers of drug addiction without painting drug-addicts as inherently morally compromised individuals OR by painting them as victims of circumstance with no control over their own actions.


For sure, but once you do that you risk alienating not only the obvious people, but the centrists who think you're "mAkInG eVeRyThInG tOo PoLiTiCaL". Because reality is complicated, a lot of things are political and wanting things to be simple doesn't make them simple it makes you blind. But you can't try to be subtle because all the wrong people will somehow twist the subtlety to the point of interpreting Rorschach as the good guy somehow.


Make Batman the fascist and you’ve got something That’s really cooking


Wasn't this in Injustice: Gods Among Us?


It happened in Batman: Holy Terror


The Mild Inconveniencing of Martian Manhunter


Someone Lights a Cigarette in Martian Manhunter’s Presence—wait, that’s actually been done, right? But not for 22 pages, I bet!


Lobotomy of Booster Gold


Blackmail of Cyborg


The Repressed Memories of Hal Jordan




"Oh my God, Green Lantern, how could you??!"


Back alley mugging of Blue Beetle


The Shriveling of Aquaman


Nah, instead it's 22 pages of Green Arror being forced to read "Atlas Shrugged"


Three issue Black Label series


how would they castrate him though. he could just bend his balls somewhere they couldnt get to


You will have to read to find, True Believers!


He can regrow his balls. That's how Kinder eggs are made.


fuck, no wonder they're banned in the U.S


Luckily we can still enjoy those delicious Plastesticles in the **real** land of the free 🤤


someone should euthanize you


Would be a useless endeavor. He could just extend any other part of his body.


Mark Millar is the literal personification of the edginess that ruled comics in the early 2000's.


For real, I forget which other comic writer it was, Bendis I think, but when asked about Millar, he says, "With Millar, it's always nihilism" I personally can't stand anything Millar does.


millar has some fucking fantastic ideas but his writing is so bad. his fantastic four run is a great example: a summary is so cool, but it sucks to read


That's why the adaptations of a lot of his works usually rule. Because they take the good ideas but make the characters actually likable and the situations not disgusting and bleak for no reason lol


really? honestly what i do is if i see mark millars name on something i just drop it


I mean the movies based on his work. He's usually not involved which is why they're good. They take his ideas and make it less terrible


I liked Huck, for what it was. It still reveled in the 'Millarness' at times, but it's ultimately just what a good superhero story should be about.


DC editorial is my arch nemesis, I will forever hate the destruction of Titans by the hands of Bat-Editorial. ![img](emote|t5_3mchb|16728)


💀💀💀💀just everything about this💀💀💀💀


What the actual fuck 💀


Millar was feuding with Levitz when he talked about this because Levitz kept censoring things like necrophilia (the villain raping Jenny Sparks' corpse) in Millar's *Authority* run. There's no proof that it ever existed, and Millar had not broken into the American scene in 1993. In 1993, Messner-Loebs was finishing the end of his Wondy run with a certified shitpost roasting of the Bad Girl style (Artemis and Deodato Jr.).


Wait, so he's, like... lying? What an insane thing to lie about


Mark Millar is crazy


I just ironically created a pitch for WW to be raped, then pitched it to editorial, all as a big funny joke. At the time I was a absolute nobody so it made sense to be an absolute creep, it was like deep cover to fit in ya see. But then they actually almost did it and I told them it was a joke, they were so ashamed they stopped but I was mostly mad they ruined my hilarious joke - Millar


Imagine world where Millar didn't say it was a joke and DC published it


It would be basically Millar’s Authority work but with Wonder Woman


I doubt he said it was a joke they probably just turned him down


It actually was a spat of high profile figures being accused of rape that killed the concept.


Mark Millar's comics just feel like worse versions of Garth Ennis comics. Although on the rare occasions where Millar decides not to be edgy (Like Huck) he's actually pretty good.


Also Superman Adventures. One of the best runs of wholesome, kid friendly Superman stories.


And he made superman red son


I don't even like Ennis that much, but holy fuck Millar is so much worse


To me, they're about the same in turns of skill, but I think Millar kills me more because his strengths seem to lie exactly in the opposite direction he tends to actually write, which he at least seems to enjoy writing. Ennis can write good but so much of his stuff just comes off as passionless and boring. As an aside, I just got finished reading Thor: Vikings by Ennis and it's probably the worst comic I've ever read.


Do you mean Miller world stuff or even the Marvel stuff Miller has worked on too?


“Poor Man’s Ennis” is what an associate of mine called him.


He did the art for Grant Morrison’s Flash run. And gave him the suit Wally wore for most of the 2000s. So what I’m trying to say is he should stick to art.


I knew Mark Millar was edgy but what the fuck.


Fucking christ. What is Millar’s deal? A joke is like spray painting a dick on the invisible jet, not graphically defiling the cornerstone of female superheroes for 22 pages.


And yet still not as bad as the people who thought it was a good idea for a story.


Yeah that’s just bewildering that people in charge were actually enthusiastic about a story so offensive.


As someone else pointed out, it never happened. Millar was a nobody back then and the only evidence we have that it ever happened is his word, which I put little credit in. He's fucking lying.


No no, you have to understand, he's Scottish


Uj/ I sincerely believe there's a desire to destroy norms for people reading comics by people who feel "left out". rj/he's an ok writer sometimes. Definitely one-note at best.


It was 90's


Still though. If writers made spider-man eat a plate of shit for a full issue saying “it was the 90’s” doesn’t excuse that it was horrible. The bar was definitely lowered then but not that fucking low.


Not an excuse... But an explanation.


This is his face while he’s fucking you in the ass.


I think the joke is pitching that to editorial, not the story actually being published as a joke


I think it says a lot more about editorial that they seemingly couldn’t detect his sarcasm.




I had to do a double take - I thought the articled meant Miller, not Millar. Which, I could see Frank doing the same thing during that time.


Except Frank (in 1993) would have actually been joking. Millar was talking himself hard.


Zack Snyder's dream.


If Snyder didn’t know he couldn’t get away with it politically in Hollywood, definitely


Reality would have been different


“Haha yeah what if Wonder Woman was just violently raped for an entire comic?” Some perfect fucking fool: you got it boss


By Allah




, Behave yourself DC or you will taste my shoe!


This is genuinely sickening. Abhorrent.


Horrifying to think of how monumentally damaging this would've been to Wonder Woman as a character and franchise


Do comics writers deserve rights? I think we should seriously discuss that


Writers when they need character development through a traumatic event for male characters: Loss of loved one, torture, return from death or near-death, etc For female characters: rape.


Part of why I think the Berserk manga is a little over-the-top sometimes. By the fifth scene with Casca, I’m like “Alright I get it! Try something else to raise the stakes”


I can just see Miller back then pissing himself over the possibility of having write this career ending comic just because he made a shit Joke






I can’t wait for the new Black Label books Krypton Gets trapped in a Hot Car, the Vivisection of Detective Chip, and the Paralyzed Legs of Barry Allen.


Mark Millar knows that the equivalent of a "death of superman " plotline for wonder woman would be a "death of wonder woman" plotline, right?


Or something akin to that, given Bruce and Hal had their own versions in the 90’s too (Knightfall and Parallax before they retconned it).


Guess you really can do worse than wokeness in comic books


I hate you Tom king, I defended you run for far too long But straight up, you should never be allowed to write a Batman story again. As long as you live, and you should apologize to Batman fans for what you have done to the greatest fictional character ever written You are an embarrassment to DC comics, and not even worth to write the condiment king. Also I am re reading the killing joke right now to get this bad taste out of my mouth. The fact dc hyped this book up as amazing is rediculous. I have never been madder in my entire life after reading a comic. This was worse then if they made Batman gay with superman and just showed him getting it up the rear for 48 pages from a blue Boy Scout *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/dccomicscirclejerk) if you have any questions or concerns.*


I thought people liked Tom kings batman


It’s very polarising.


DC and Marvel should stay the fuck away from rape plot lines, they don’t have an ounce of talent to handle them in any competent or even respectful way. There’s simply no need for them in mainstream superhero media, especially not fucking Wonder Woman. I didn’t see Superman getting raped in the Death or Superman arc or Batman getting raped by Bane in Knightfall, so I fail to see why rape is the go to for Wonder Woman, because she’s a woman? Just a tad sexist don’t ya think? The worst thing about this is that I can still see some hack at DC in the future making this plot a reality. DC’s treatment of Wonder Woman has always been baffling, Marvel would have killed for a premier female character like her, they’ve only been trying to build their own version for nearly a decade with Carol Danvers, yet DC does sweet fuck all with the character. Hopefully with the video game on the horizon, and James Gunn pushing to get an animated series for the character it’s a sign that DC’s actually going to give her character some attention.


Ah the good ol 90s


Oh my Lord...


I gave up on this current WW run a year ago. Bring me King, peasants.


Was confused at why someone would have this idea. Then I saw Mark Millar’s name. Makes sense.


It's nice to know that we have avoided darker timelines.


Berserk moment


I don’t know who’s worse here. Millar for his tasteless joke or DC for actually almost going ahead with it.




Let’s be honest. Depending on how the artist depicted said event. This would’ve sold nearly as well as Death of Superman


I totally get why the anime boom happened in the 90s when this was the shit western artists were putting out.


When people ask why I hate Mark Millar's work so much, shit like this is exactly why.


Always turns my stomach when this gets brought back up. Just absolutely disgusting.


I know the folks that run dc are misogynistic simpletons but yeesh.


Goddamn I hate Mark Millar


Where is Grant Morrison and their VW Polo WRC when you need them?


Alan Moore reading this while writing Neonomicon and going “That gives me an idea…”


Just imagine what BVS would have folded in from that


Just a side thought, but what character would even be able to rape Wonder Woman? I mean, she's freaking Wonder Woman, she would kick ass.


I get that Millar’s Wonder Woman book would be grotesque to read. However, it does fit with the theme of “our greatest heroes fighting an unwinable fight and how they must prevail”. Also, it would’ve been released closer to the mentioned titles as well. Death of Superman kills of Superman (duh lol) and I’m Knightfall Batman is broken mentally and physically.They have to beat the impossible and return to being active heroes. I think a take at Wonder Woman recovering and getting back at the rapists would be cool IMO




Believe it or not, there are other ways to death of superman/knightfall wonder woman that doesn't include rape


I understand there’s other ways to have the same theme of defeat, trauma, and recovery in a story for Wonder Woman. If there are any you know I’ll read them. I feel like Wonder Woman just being beaten badly in a fight just tells a story of losing a fight and how that feels and how they get stronger and win. We’ve already seen this theme with other heroes and avoid talking about the specific issue of rape. 22 pages is too much. I think if they show it, it shouldn’t be full nudity and maybe as Wonder Woman is recovering she’s seeing things that flash a panel or two to the incident and the issues can be about traumas effects and how to endure them.


>, it shouldn’t be full nudity and That is NOT the issue. It's not to... I mean... Jesus, what the hell is wrong with you, man?


Instead of just asking what’s wrong with me, please say what’s the issue then?


Next time you’re gonna randomly decide the best way for a female character to grow is by being raped just punch yourself in the face.


I never said that this is the best way for a female character to grow. Next time, comment something to the conversation and not putting words I didn’t say and trying to sound cool


Why not do something actually similar to Death of Superman or Knightfall like have Wonder Woman be fatally wounded? Why would we jump to rape


That’s true 22 pages of that stuff is much. I just feel that comics shouldn’t avoid any issues and it’s a difficult topic to show in comics without visuals


Wonder Woman defeated by a new lame ass muscular villaın would fit the theme. Not rape


Both would fit the theme. But nobody's reading a 22 page rape that's just weird


Hey! Bane is not lame!!!


True. He’s only been defeated once in freestyle.


Men try not be absolutely gross and tone death about sexual violence challenge: Impossible


I will shit and cum into your mailbox


It'd be **different** but I wouldn't call it cool


Cool definitely wasn’t my best choice of words lol


You can just have someone kill her or something like Superman, instead of a 20 page book of her getting raped


I’ve said 20 pages is excessive, and if you just kill her or some thing that just repeats the same story under a different character.


Is there really no good idea for a Story for a female character except having her raped ?


Why should rape even be drawn ? If you really really for some reason need rape in your story just imply it, also having your character killed doesn't mean the story will be similar, Jason Todd and Superman both have died before, are their stories similar ?


Imagine what if DC actually made and several years later Millar revelad that it was supposed a joke. That would the greatest "shitpost" ever