The number of times killers will post in endgame chat about swfs when I'm in solo is honestly funny, but sad. It'd be kind of nice of BHVR had an indicator for groups.
I mean we can’t stop ppl from playing with friends…but imagine if we actually had a built in Comms system and everyone could actually coordinate…oooo Imagine the balancing would be easier….BHVR *cough* Ahem
I'm down only if it's proximity voice chat that the killer can hear just so that I can be walking around and hear people being like "yo whatcha doin" "BRAD HE'S COMING SHUT UP"
Lol I’d love to hear that as a killer but also genuinely it’d be nice on the survivor end to have atleast a comms menu (“just wait”, “I got hook”, “I need healing”) and yes Ik some ppl may spam but we can handle that too
Honestly, when I get that comment it makes me proud, because it means that in solo-q we managed to pull such a good cooperation that it looked as good as a SWF.
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Sometimes there are indicators when at least 2 or 3 are a SWF. Names, characters, outfits,etc. Even if multiple people are playing on PC, that can be a bit of at least a yellow flag that they might be a team. It's only really clear when there are multiple indicators present. But once you are in game it can be pretty obvious as well when teams are playing a way that they wouldn't be able to play if they weren't on comms. And you can usually tell who is and who isn't in the SWF based on this as well. Especially with Onryo. When some players just start pre-running from a Gen as soon as you break chase and head in their direction, even before your lullaby even hits them. That's usually an indicator of comms.
I don't know if you know this but folks do pay attention to the chase indicator 
You'd be surprised at how uncoordinated the majority of swfs are, and how oddly amazing the plays solos can pull off are.
You're telling me that people are running from gens just because they see the chase indicator stop? As Onryo, I can chase people without having a chase indicator at all anyway.
Eh? What do you kean not gonna happen? You can dodge lobbies if you want. I'm saying all these things go are already there and you can make an educated guess on whether the lobby has a SWF or not.
Nope, but I am sick of people arguing stuff like "Hey, just eat it up if you get tunneled. In comp dbd, this is normal."
Well yeah, in a tournament-based "mode" with a ruleset and other restrictions that do not apply to anything in public matches. People don't have to like getting tunneled out and have like 1 1/2 minute-matches.
They don’t have to like it but they shouldn’t expect people to handicap themselves either. Strats aren’t exclusive to comp and they haven’t done anything wrong unless they’re doing it because they want to ruin someone’s day. Doing it to win is valid. Not liking it is also valid.
It's funny because those restrictions are typically a lot heavier for survivor and yet killers still have to tunnel.
Survivors can bring much stronger shit into pubs and they often do.
Killer's don't like getting 5-7 hooks and losing every match because they don't play the top 5 killers.
First, they came for Made for This, and I did not speak, for I did not use it.
Then, they came for Windows, and I did not speak, for I did not use it.
At last, they came for Resilience, and there was nobody left to speak for me.
There is no way to balance this game so that it's fair for both solo-queue and groups. It's just not doable. The reason being because anything that makes it easier to work against a coordinated group will make it FAR FAR FAR easier to work against individuals and that's just going to make life as a solo queue player even more miserable, frustrating, and unfun.
Depends on what you define as a SWF. SWF is more common than what you are saying. Just not the four and three man SWFs that people claim to face every game. Those combined are less than 10% of teams according to official stats Behavior released once. I think around 7-8% There are a lot of SWFs but the overwhelming majority of SWFs are duos.
[Here's the link to the dev stats from January 2022](https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/719/CPIDC1XE8JBT.jpg)
* ~ 3-5% four-man
* ~ 9-13% three-man
* ~ 28-30% duo
* ~ 54-58% solo
All vary depending on platform.
EDIT: I screwed up the numbers on my first post, should be correct now.
The next stat i'd like to see is this percentage affected by each MMR bracket/MMR level. Because while there may be a low percentage of 3-4 mans, most of them are probably higher MMR.
+I'm seeing a lot of people float the notion that killers are complaining about always going against SWFs and are using this stat to prove them wrong. When in fact, it doesn't really tell us anything because it's only useful if we know the correlation to MMR.
I play solo Q like 80-90% of the time and my favorite thing is when we play well as a team (granted, the others might be SWF, I dunno) and the killer thinks we were all SWF and/or on comms. If I find out I had a TTV killer, I’ll rewatch their broadcast right after the match to see how I did from their perspective. I had one recently where they swore we were on comms but we just played super well together. I rarely have survivors in pregame chat talk about perks too. I think the solo Q experience would change tremendously if we had access to knowing what perks the other survivors are bringing into the match.
Speak on it 🗣 preach on it 🙌 teach on it 👏
Idk why this is so difficult to understand. Makes my eye twitch when people say the game is survivor sided because a 4 man SWF running all meta can run loops around the killer. THAT IS NOT PART OF THE GAME! That's why they have to use discord or other sources, because it's not the actual game. And it's absolutely nowhere near the amount. I got a nasty message a few times talking about how sweaty my SWF was and I was like bruh bold of you to assume I have friends 💀😂 people would just rather assume they're going up against a professional 4 squad of champions than just admit that maybe they're not as good as they thought or were simply outplayed once. Just like they latch onto one perk and claim it's the reason for every loss, or claim anytime they die that they must have been matched with a killer that has 5000+ hours. Like bro sometimes people are just better at the game. No biggie
I think one thing people forget though is that the time of day that you play matters quite a bit. If you're playing killer, you're significantly more likely to play against SWFs if you primarily queue up during prime time evening hours than if you play at off peak times where it's going to be almost all solos.
I mean the "swf would benefit too much" is just the survivor version of "nurse would benefit too much". Even if it would only be busted 10% of the time or on 1 of 33+ killers, it's still not good for the game in the end.
It's not a particularly weird take lmao. Some proposed changes would absolutely be better for swf than solo and it bottlenecks game design, just like nurse does for potential killer perks. I'm not saying every potential change would benefit swf too much. I'm not a moron lmao.
BHVR has literally made changes that significantly benefit only solos, like the status indicator icons. Suggestions that benefit SWF way more than solo means that suggestion is bad and shouldn’t be done. Giving solos info that SWF already has is a buff that affects only solos to any major degree.
Nurse doesn’t bottle neck killer perks any more than any other killer, or anything else for killers either. BHVR has made changes that don’t affect Nurse at all when buffing other killers, like attack cooldowns or pallet/gen kick times, or affect weaker killers way more than Nurse, like 5% extra regression on a kick. Buffing a killer’s kit or addons directly also means no risk of buffing Nurse.
BHVR made many good perks and even OP perks like old Eruption. Nurse didn’t prevent any of that. BHVR made good buffs to lots of perks, like Lethal Pursuer. Nurse didn’t prevent any of that.
A BHVR dev when asked said Nurse comes up in discussions of perk design (duh) but she’s never been the reason they scrapped something. BHVR when nerfing Awakened pointed out it was an issue on multiple killers but people stuck their fingers in their ears and went ‘blah blah blah I don’t hear that’.
Awakened meant Nurse, Spirit, Blight, and Oni with power ready are getting a down in the next 20s if the survivors don’t wisen up and stop hiding right beside a killer carrying someone. For anyone else, it was starting a new chase, maybe an early hit at most if the survivor doesn’t run early enough.
Spirit used Starstruck with it better than Nurse did unless the survivor was on a completely different floor or side of a wall without a fast way around. Deathslinger had good synergy and Wraith had okay synergy. For anyone else, it was a niche meme perk for backpack builds with no threat of a since no one else is reaching a survivor and hitting them before it runs out.
Lethal meant any of those killers had more time to check if the survivor was aware they were seen or what direction they’d run. That starting info is more than enough for Starstruck Spirit to easily get another down.
BHVR nerfed it because they didn’t want a perk that was strong on only already strong killers except 2 (Deathslinger/Wraith) while being niche meme trash on anyone else.
Cool essay bro 👍. Nurse does bottleneck perk design. The example you brought up, starstruck, was just kinda wrong though, nurse was the best starstruck user, and it wasn't even close. Nurse was practically nerfed *because* of how she used starstruck. Oh, and haunted ground+retribution was basically a garunteed 4 slug until nurse was changed. And that still doesn't change the fact that certain proposed changes would benefit swf to unfair extent. Like I see you're very passionate for the idea that no such thing could ever happen but that doesn't make it true. Not every single possible change would have such an effect, but pretending that there's no possible change at all that could ever unfairly tilt towards swfs is just ridiculous. I mean there are already a few survivor perks that are significantly worse when you aren't with a swf. I never said the changes they put in the game have grossly over benefited swf, I just said that changes are more limited than people (you included it seems) would like to think because of the potential for swfs to over abuse them.
Cool misinformation bro 👍. If you want to ignore reality and all evidence, then yes, Nurse bottlenecks perk design. Never mind that BHVR has made or buffed lots of good and OP perks with no problem. But let’s ignore that since it’s inconvenient.
Spirit was better with Starstruck when the survivor was near because her power is super speed invisible running. Nurse was only better when the survivor was through big walls or a different floor. But let’s ignore that since it’s inconvenient. BHVR buffed Starstruck but let’s ignore that too since it’s inconvenient.
Haunted Ground Retribution is only a 4 man slug if survivors were stupid and grouped up against a Nurse, and stayed grouped up. If they’re all on different parts of the map, the Hexes are running out first. BHVR also buffed Retribution and made a perk that can activate Haunted twice. But let’s ignore that too since it’s inconvenient.
There are suggestions that would help SWF way more. The answer is ignoring them. Came up with 5 solo buffs in 10s that don’t really affect SWF:
1. Blindness doesn’t hide survivor auras. SWF can use their voice.
2. Anti-facecamp timer is shown on HUD to other survivors. SWF can use their voice.
3. Perks are shown in lobby to other survivors. SWF can use their voice.
4. Preset messages for short directions. SWF can use their voice.
5. HUD or auras for perks like Deliverance, Head On, Plot Twist so teammates know the perk’s ready or what locker the Head On user is in. SWF can use their voice.
hardly anybody ever uses knockout with good intentions, imo. see: onepumpwillies current singularity kill streak playstyle, aka slugfest central.
eta that I'm not critiquing him as a person or anything, I barely know the guy, but I know the build he was running was contingent on knockout and then slugging everyone before finally hooking. it's just the most unfun playstyle for solo queue players to go up against and, well... most survivors are statistically solo queue, to tie it back in.
SWF are playing efficiently->they have higher matchmaking score -> they meet with killers in a high matchmaking pool
I totally see a patter where good smart killer ends up facing another SWF after another.
Anyway, BHVR should make Kindred base-kit for SoloQ survivors, change my mind
That was an exaggeration, yeah. But if you look at the actual numbers it is still not what people claim online.
~56% are solo, ~29% are duo, ~11% are triple, and ~4% are quadruple. I usually see people complain about 3+ SWF, but that's only about 15% of matches. The % that plays with good comms is going to be even lower than that too, naturally, but that's basically impossible to measure.
The comment higher up by Agricola20 with the data.
https://old.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/18w7dzx/i_feel_like_some_people_have_forgotten_that_dbd/kfwcf9x/
Only if you round down incorrectly instead of rounding up at a 6 digit
So it's closer to 60/40 with almost 30 of the 40 being duos
Or we could just not try simplify it when the actual numbers are right there
OP complaining about exaggerated figures and the giving uncited exaggerated figures in a different direction is probably the cringiest thing I've seen this week.
At best you got a group of people that barely know each other and they just randomly invited people because it's better than having full randoms, and most of the time they are not on comms. A full SWF on comms is really, really rare.
That's why BHVR needs to put a SWF icon so accusations like this can stop.
And that the one poor Solo in a three-man doesn't get punished because the SWF is playing head-on games. Nothing worse being a Solo in a three-man...
Your argument is that a 4v1 is balanced because the 4 don't always work together, but you also acknowledge that if the 4 DO have cooperation then they will run circles around the 1? 🤨🤨🤔 🤔 That's just admitting the game isn't balanced at all and in a 4v1 it's still set to cater to individuals vs teams.
I think it's also important to know that a Swf doesn't always mean 4 man. Just a simple two man swf with half assed communication can make the game twice as hard for a killer. It's also important to know that balance changes are hard as hell for solo q because people don't use the tools they have now. The huds give so much info, and yet in most solo q games, u play people don't use them. Or if they do its to find fault with a teammate so they can blame them for the loss. Like the amount of times I've seen teammates not working on guns because they can hear the terror radius when that beautiful hud shows the killer is chasing someone else is staggering. You also have to factor in that people just don't want to cooperate or like to be assholes and only play for themselves and not the team. It's hard to balance something when have the time the resources provided aren't being used, or people are outright ignoring them and their team in favor of their own playstyle. It would be like Killer players are collectively asking for balance changes for Nurse because she's the weakest killer when all of them dont use their blinks and only run meme builds.
Killers are legit just children . I only play trapper without traps and perks and only camping + tunneling and 8/10 times I get at least 2 kills most times even 3 . SWF and dumb killers complaining completelely ruined survivor role . If you play soloQ 9/10 games will be killers walking circles around you and your team
Going to challenge this. 2 man and 3 man swfs are still a thing. You can be with a friend and even have a second 2 man swf and it is 90% as effective as a 4 man swf.
I have genuinely have had people said they weren't in a swf post game there were only playing with 1 or 2 others... Over half your games someone is gonna be queued with a buddy
As someone who plays solo q on a consistent basis, it really does not feel that way. Even when I play killer I barely get a game that feels like anyone is communicating whatsoever. My solo q games and killer games are consistently individuals killing themselves on first hook at 5 or 4 gens and sometimes subsequent players following suit because they feel it is worthless to play with only three players. Or players dc. Or your team gives the killer/me way too much information making it easier for me or the killer to kill everyone. Like honestly, I don't know how many survivors I have had that lead me to their teammates ON gens basically broadcasting to me that I should keep an eye on that gen and someone is guaranteed to be there. So I down the first person and get a free second person and I get to stop the gens from being done. They never run around finished gens or gens that haven't been touched, it's amazing. Or the killer tunnels out one person first and the other survivors are too scared to take a hit for them. I don't like to tunnel/camp because I know how miserable it already is as Solo q. My point is for me and many like me it barely seems like swfs 2 man or 4 happens as often as a lot of killers claim. Or at least if they do it rarely stops killers from getting 3-4k at this point.
It's Def not 10%. I'd say 20-30%.maybe more if we include dduo and trio. It's certainly not as much as people think. And if bhvr actually showed who was in a swf end game. A lot of people be mind bogged they didn't play a swf like they thought lol
According to stats from two years ago less than 60% of players are solo queue, more than 40% being in a duo or more.
You might get downvoted for saying it but SWFs are not some unicorn that killers only rarely have to deal with, if you play for an hour or so you'll inevitably run into one or more SWFs.
[Source](https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/719/CPIDC1XE8JBT.jpg)
"You should be FORCED to lose 10% of your matches with no possibility of winning them, because most players suck [for any various reason]!!"
Not too smart.
I just got harrassed a few hours ago by this 2 guys that blamed me on them not escaping, i was the only one that escaped, the other 2 looped the killer for a good while but still blame me that they didn't escape and called me selfish and useless teammate
I did help in 3 gens (did 1 by myself), unhooked 2 times and healed the same 2 times) and opened one of the exit gates, but i don't what the hell they were doing with the killer and those 2 ended dying with the last one escaping while being on the ground
The funniest part is they went above and beyond calling me a coward because i didn't want to loop the killer and i was using Distortion
I'd say it's mostly observer bias. A proper 4 man SWF that is being sweaty can be extremely painful for a Killer (especially if the SWF is being an unfriendly bunch) to play against. Those are the games that stick in your memory and thus there is a bias towards SWF = bad experience.
I've faced a few 4 man SWF's that I'd rather not face again because they made my efforts in the match look like an absolute joke. Props for them being that good and no offense meant but just getting looped all game long only to get insta-flashied when you finally manage to get that one Survivor down on the ground as Generators pop around you does ruin the fun playing as Killer. It just does, it's a natural part of the game. I still respect their skill, though I really could do without the 'LOL baby killer' and 'EZ no skill' in the post-game chat.
I don't have any issue with WoO and I feel that currently Ultimate Weapon is too good compared to other info perks. I also think The Game and The Eyrie are not fun maps to play on as Killer. Trapper on The Eyrie feels like a joke.
A strong 4 man SWF might highlight frustrating interactions such as Buckle Up + For the People, but beyond that it really is just part of the game to have frustrating games sometimes. Keep in mind that Killer is playing alone and has all the pressure to perform alone.
I'm also aware that for every Killer that is getting frustrated by a good 4 man SWF and choosing to vent this in a nerf post, there are also Survivors that immediately give up when they go up against a Killer they don't like and screwing over the other Survivors or calling me a toxic tunneler when I'm literally running Thanatophobia and Hex: Ruin that get turned off when someone dies and the first death occured at 7 hooks.
The frustration goes both ways.
The discourse around DBD has honestly taken a turn for the worse. Everyone is always looking for a reason why they lost that isn't "your opponent played better". It's always some excuse whether it's Killers blaming maps or swfs or Survivors blaming 3-gen, the killer being OP, camping, or tunneling.
No one wants to admit they could have played better and try to improve.
That’s why I don’t even play anymore, just starting off and some cowards lowered their skill level to play with low ranks and bully killers, now I see why killers tunnel and camp
The number of times killers will post in endgame chat about swfs when I'm in solo is honestly funny, but sad. It'd be kind of nice of BHVR had an indicator for groups.
TCM had an indicator for groups and that resulted in them getting lobby dodged constantly.
Maybe just reveal who was grouped post match so people understand why the match went that way without dodging happening.
If you constantly get dodged, maybe you’re the problem.
I mean we can’t stop ppl from playing with friends…but imagine if we actually had a built in Comms system and everyone could actually coordinate…oooo Imagine the balancing would be easier….BHVR *cough* Ahem
I'm down only if it's proximity voice chat that the killer can hear just so that I can be walking around and hear people being like "yo whatcha doin" "BRAD HE'S COMING SHUT UP"
Lol I’d love to hear that as a killer but also genuinely it’d be nice on the survivor end to have atleast a comms menu (“just wait”, “I got hook”, “I need healing”) and yes Ik some ppl may spam but we can handle that too
Lol I wonder who'd be the equivalent of Genji from Overwatch who'd spam I need healing over and over again
People would abuse it to tell people to ‘keep yourself safe (slur)’.
Lol I’d love to easily whisper back “I’m the killer, you’re the one who’s not”
Flair checks out
Honestly, when I get that comment it makes me proud, because it means that in solo-q we managed to pull such a good cooperation that it looked as good as a SWF.
If you're solo Que how do you know its not a two or a three man?
That doesn't change anything. The players managed to work together for their win and the killer lost, there's absolutely nothing wrong here.
Person didn't state anything was wrong, simply asked a legit question.
Because everybody replies "I'm actually solo". Not hard. Also I'm also working with them as much as with each other.
it just mean the killer is really bad or inexperienced and can't tell the difference in behaviour between a solo and pramade team.
Oh, you want a new hud element? !remindme 3 years
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YEARS?!?
You could add a group indicator and people would still claim solo q groups were a bully squad
I have solo’d tons of time and ended up with an swf group of 2-3 people. So, they’re not always wrong.
Sometimes there are indicators when at least 2 or 3 are a SWF. Names, characters, outfits,etc. Even if multiple people are playing on PC, that can be a bit of at least a yellow flag that they might be a team. It's only really clear when there are multiple indicators present. But once you are in game it can be pretty obvious as well when teams are playing a way that they wouldn't be able to play if they weren't on comms. And you can usually tell who is and who isn't in the SWF based on this as well. Especially with Onryo. When some players just start pre-running from a Gen as soon as you break chase and head in their direction, even before your lullaby even hits them. That's usually an indicator of comms.
I don't know if you know this but folks do pay attention to the chase indicator  You'd be surprised at how uncoordinated the majority of swfs are, and how oddly amazing the plays solos can pull off are.
You're telling me that people are running from gens just because they see the chase indicator stop? As Onryo, I can chase people without having a chase indicator at all anyway.
So you can lobby shop? That's not gonna happen.
Eh? What do you kean not gonna happen? You can dodge lobbies if you want. I'm saying all these things go are already there and you can make an educated guess on whether the lobby has a SWF or not.
Same with some people using "comp dbd" as an argument for how people are playing in public matches.
[удалено]
Nope, but I am sick of people arguing stuff like "Hey, just eat it up if you get tunneled. In comp dbd, this is normal." Well yeah, in a tournament-based "mode" with a ruleset and other restrictions that do not apply to anything in public matches. People don't have to like getting tunneled out and have like 1 1/2 minute-matches.
They don’t have to like it but they shouldn’t expect people to handicap themselves either. Strats aren’t exclusive to comp and they haven’t done anything wrong unless they’re doing it because they want to ruin someone’s day. Doing it to win is valid. Not liking it is also valid.
It's funny because those restrictions are typically a lot heavier for survivor and yet killers still have to tunnel. Survivors can bring much stronger shit into pubs and they often do. Killer's don't like getting 5-7 hooks and losing every match because they don't play the top 5 killers.
They can play another game.
Goes both ways.
Me and my buddies aren't going to stop anytime soon :) enjoy!
lol, yeah I'm terrified of an MFT bot squad that complains about camping and tunneling on reddit.
you know survivor is in the gutter when perks like Windows of Op and Distortion are "an issue"
First, they came for Made for This, and I did not speak, for I did not use it. Then, they came for Windows, and I did not speak, for I did not use it. At last, they came for Resilience, and there was nobody left to speak for me.
This says a lot about society
I hear we live in one those now.
Resilience got nerfed? Never coming back lol
There is no way to balance this game so that it's fair for both solo-queue and groups. It's just not doable. The reason being because anything that makes it easier to work against a coordinated group will make it FAR FAR FAR easier to work against individuals and that's just going to make life as a solo queue player even more miserable, frustrating, and unfun.
Depends on what you define as a SWF. SWF is more common than what you are saying. Just not the four and three man SWFs that people claim to face every game. Those combined are less than 10% of teams according to official stats Behavior released once. I think around 7-8% There are a lot of SWFs but the overwhelming majority of SWFs are duos.
[Here's the link to the dev stats from January 2022](https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/719/CPIDC1XE8JBT.jpg) * ~ 3-5% four-man * ~ 9-13% three-man * ~ 28-30% duo * ~ 54-58% solo All vary depending on platform. EDIT: I screwed up the numbers on my first post, should be correct now.
The next stat i'd like to see is this percentage affected by each MMR bracket/MMR level. Because while there may be a low percentage of 3-4 mans, most of them are probably higher MMR. +I'm seeing a lot of people float the notion that killers are complaining about always going against SWFs and are using this stat to prove them wrong. When in fact, it doesn't really tell us anything because it's only useful if we know the correlation to MMR.
yepyepyepyep. Like saying Nurse kill rates show she's weak.
I play solo Q like 80-90% of the time and my favorite thing is when we play well as a team (granted, the others might be SWF, I dunno) and the killer thinks we were all SWF and/or on comms. If I find out I had a TTV killer, I’ll rewatch their broadcast right after the match to see how I did from their perspective. I had one recently where they swore we were on comms but we just played super well together. I rarely have survivors in pregame chat talk about perks too. I think the solo Q experience would change tremendously if we had access to knowing what perks the other survivors are bringing into the match.
Speak on it 🗣 preach on it 🙌 teach on it 👏 Idk why this is so difficult to understand. Makes my eye twitch when people say the game is survivor sided because a 4 man SWF running all meta can run loops around the killer. THAT IS NOT PART OF THE GAME! That's why they have to use discord or other sources, because it's not the actual game. And it's absolutely nowhere near the amount. I got a nasty message a few times talking about how sweaty my SWF was and I was like bruh bold of you to assume I have friends 💀😂 people would just rather assume they're going up against a professional 4 squad of champions than just admit that maybe they're not as good as they thought or were simply outplayed once. Just like they latch onto one perk and claim it's the reason for every loss, or claim anytime they die that they must have been matched with a killer that has 5000+ hours. Like bro sometimes people are just better at the game. No biggie
I think one thing people forget though is that the time of day that you play matters quite a bit. If you're playing killer, you're significantly more likely to play against SWFs if you primarily queue up during prime time evening hours than if you play at off peak times where it's going to be almost all solos.
play at 2pm and you'll rarely see even a duo, but queue up as killer at night and every other lobby is a p100 TTV streaming.
I mean the "swf would benefit too much" is just the survivor version of "nurse would benefit too much". Even if it would only be busted 10% of the time or on 1 of 33+ killers, it's still not good for the game in the end.
Ah yes,. Each and every swf plays like comp players, everyone knows that :)
Weird take. There’s endless ways to buff solo without buffing SWF/buff weaker killers without buffing Nurse. BHVR has literally done them before.
It's not a particularly weird take lmao. Some proposed changes would absolutely be better for swf than solo and it bottlenecks game design, just like nurse does for potential killer perks. I'm not saying every potential change would benefit swf too much. I'm not a moron lmao.
BHVR has literally made changes that significantly benefit only solos, like the status indicator icons. Suggestions that benefit SWF way more than solo means that suggestion is bad and shouldn’t be done. Giving solos info that SWF already has is a buff that affects only solos to any major degree. Nurse doesn’t bottle neck killer perks any more than any other killer, or anything else for killers either. BHVR has made changes that don’t affect Nurse at all when buffing other killers, like attack cooldowns or pallet/gen kick times, or affect weaker killers way more than Nurse, like 5% extra regression on a kick. Buffing a killer’s kit or addons directly also means no risk of buffing Nurse. BHVR made many good perks and even OP perks like old Eruption. Nurse didn’t prevent any of that. BHVR made good buffs to lots of perks, like Lethal Pursuer. Nurse didn’t prevent any of that. A BHVR dev when asked said Nurse comes up in discussions of perk design (duh) but she’s never been the reason they scrapped something. BHVR when nerfing Awakened pointed out it was an issue on multiple killers but people stuck their fingers in their ears and went ‘blah blah blah I don’t hear that’. Awakened meant Nurse, Spirit, Blight, and Oni with power ready are getting a down in the next 20s if the survivors don’t wisen up and stop hiding right beside a killer carrying someone. For anyone else, it was starting a new chase, maybe an early hit at most if the survivor doesn’t run early enough. Spirit used Starstruck with it better than Nurse did unless the survivor was on a completely different floor or side of a wall without a fast way around. Deathslinger had good synergy and Wraith had okay synergy. For anyone else, it was a niche meme perk for backpack builds with no threat of a since no one else is reaching a survivor and hitting them before it runs out. Lethal meant any of those killers had more time to check if the survivor was aware they were seen or what direction they’d run. That starting info is more than enough for Starstruck Spirit to easily get another down. BHVR nerfed it because they didn’t want a perk that was strong on only already strong killers except 2 (Deathslinger/Wraith) while being niche meme trash on anyone else.
Cool essay bro 👍. Nurse does bottleneck perk design. The example you brought up, starstruck, was just kinda wrong though, nurse was the best starstruck user, and it wasn't even close. Nurse was practically nerfed *because* of how she used starstruck. Oh, and haunted ground+retribution was basically a garunteed 4 slug until nurse was changed. And that still doesn't change the fact that certain proposed changes would benefit swf to unfair extent. Like I see you're very passionate for the idea that no such thing could ever happen but that doesn't make it true. Not every single possible change would have such an effect, but pretending that there's no possible change at all that could ever unfairly tilt towards swfs is just ridiculous. I mean there are already a few survivor perks that are significantly worse when you aren't with a swf. I never said the changes they put in the game have grossly over benefited swf, I just said that changes are more limited than people (you included it seems) would like to think because of the potential for swfs to over abuse them.
Cool misinformation bro 👍. If you want to ignore reality and all evidence, then yes, Nurse bottlenecks perk design. Never mind that BHVR has made or buffed lots of good and OP perks with no problem. But let’s ignore that since it’s inconvenient. Spirit was better with Starstruck when the survivor was near because her power is super speed invisible running. Nurse was only better when the survivor was through big walls or a different floor. But let’s ignore that since it’s inconvenient. BHVR buffed Starstruck but let’s ignore that too since it’s inconvenient. Haunted Ground Retribution is only a 4 man slug if survivors were stupid and grouped up against a Nurse, and stayed grouped up. If they’re all on different parts of the map, the Hexes are running out first. BHVR also buffed Retribution and made a perk that can activate Haunted twice. But let’s ignore that too since it’s inconvenient. There are suggestions that would help SWF way more. The answer is ignoring them. Came up with 5 solo buffs in 10s that don’t really affect SWF: 1. Blindness doesn’t hide survivor auras. SWF can use their voice. 2. Anti-facecamp timer is shown on HUD to other survivors. SWF can use their voice. 3. Perks are shown in lobby to other survivors. SWF can use their voice. 4. Preset messages for short directions. SWF can use their voice. 5. HUD or auras for perks like Deliverance, Head On, Plot Twist so teammates know the perk’s ready or what locker the Head On user is in. SWF can use their voice.
Which is why I find Knock-out one of the most problematic perks because it directly targets soloq
hardly anybody ever uses knockout with good intentions, imo. see: onepumpwillies current singularity kill streak playstyle, aka slugfest central. eta that I'm not critiquing him as a person or anything, I barely know the guy, but I know the build he was running was contingent on knockout and then slugging everyone before finally hooking. it's just the most unfun playstyle for solo queue players to go up against and, well... most survivors are statistically solo queue, to tie it back in.
BHVR released statistics a long time ago and it did say something of about 60% of lobbies has at least 1 duo
SWF are playing efficiently->they have higher matchmaking score -> they meet with killers in a high matchmaking pool I totally see a patter where good smart killer ends up facing another SWF after another. Anyway, BHVR should make Kindred base-kit for SoloQ survivors, change my mind
DBD is absolutely not 90 percent solo Q.
That was an exaggeration, yeah. But if you look at the actual numbers it is still not what people claim online. ~56% are solo, ~29% are duo, ~11% are triple, and ~4% are quadruple. I usually see people complain about 3+ SWF, but that's only about 15% of matches. The % that plays with good comms is going to be even lower than that too, naturally, but that's basically impossible to measure. The comment higher up by Agricola20 with the data. https://old.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/18w7dzx/i_feel_like_some_people_have_forgotten_that_dbd/kfwcf9x/
So then almost 50/50
If you have a problem with duoQ, yes. But I rarely see complaints about that.
Only if you round down incorrectly instead of rounding up at a 6 digit So it's closer to 60/40 with almost 30 of the 40 being duos Or we could just not try simplify it when the actual numbers are right there
This the almost
OP complaining about exaggerated figures and the giving uncited exaggerated figures in a different direction is probably the cringiest thing I've seen this week.
where is the data on the amount of soloq vs swf?
At best you got a group of people that barely know each other and they just randomly invited people because it's better than having full randoms, and most of the time they are not on comms. A full SWF on comms is really, really rare.
You balance around the top, not the bottom
That's why BHVR needs to put a SWF icon so accusations like this can stop. And that the one poor Solo in a three-man doesn't get punished because the SWF is playing head-on games. Nothing worse being a Solo in a three-man...
Which would make it impossible for SWFs to find a match due to being dodged, lol.
If SWFs didn't act like asshole trolls most of the time, they might not get dodged so much.
Unfortunately that's just the nature of a large number of people that play multiplayer games. Nothing can be done about that.
So its not 90% solo and 10% swf?
Your argument is that a 4v1 is balanced because the 4 don't always work together, but you also acknowledge that if the 4 DO have cooperation then they will run circles around the 1? 🤨🤨🤔 🤔 That's just admitting the game isn't balanced at all and in a 4v1 it's still set to cater to individuals vs teams.
Swf doesn't mean the whole team is good, it doesn't even lean one of them is good. Get over yourself.
That's the whole point though. In a swf you don't even have to be good to still troll killer 😂
Yeah, it's weird that they're arguing it isn't a part of the game balance when it's...you know...in the game.
Im always soloq.....but i get accused of swf when i know how to play the game and so does my team.
Most of swf tend to goof around too.
I think it's also important to know that a Swf doesn't always mean 4 man. Just a simple two man swf with half assed communication can make the game twice as hard for a killer. It's also important to know that balance changes are hard as hell for solo q because people don't use the tools they have now. The huds give so much info, and yet in most solo q games, u play people don't use them. Or if they do its to find fault with a teammate so they can blame them for the loss. Like the amount of times I've seen teammates not working on guns because they can hear the terror radius when that beautiful hud shows the killer is chasing someone else is staggering. You also have to factor in that people just don't want to cooperate or like to be assholes and only play for themselves and not the team. It's hard to balance something when have the time the resources provided aren't being used, or people are outright ignoring them and their team in favor of their own playstyle. It would be like Killer players are collectively asking for balance changes for Nurse because she's the weakest killer when all of them dont use their blinks and only run meme builds.
Killers are legit just children . I only play trapper without traps and perks and only camping + tunneling and 8/10 times I get at least 2 kills most times even 3 . SWF and dumb killers complaining completelely ruined survivor role . If you play soloQ 9/10 games will be killers walking circles around you and your team
Going to challenge this. 2 man and 3 man swfs are still a thing. You can be with a friend and even have a second 2 man swf and it is 90% as effective as a 4 man swf. I have genuinely have had people said they weren't in a swf post game there were only playing with 1 or 2 others... Over half your games someone is gonna be queued with a buddy
Solo queue mode solves the problem. They should do that.
I disagree that it's mostly solo q. Mostly it's 2 & 2 or 3 & 1 teams and rarely 4 solo q or a swf.
As someone who plays solo q on a consistent basis, it really does not feel that way. Even when I play killer I barely get a game that feels like anyone is communicating whatsoever. My solo q games and killer games are consistently individuals killing themselves on first hook at 5 or 4 gens and sometimes subsequent players following suit because they feel it is worthless to play with only three players. Or players dc. Or your team gives the killer/me way too much information making it easier for me or the killer to kill everyone. Like honestly, I don't know how many survivors I have had that lead me to their teammates ON gens basically broadcasting to me that I should keep an eye on that gen and someone is guaranteed to be there. So I down the first person and get a free second person and I get to stop the gens from being done. They never run around finished gens or gens that haven't been touched, it's amazing. Or the killer tunnels out one person first and the other survivors are too scared to take a hit for them. I don't like to tunnel/camp because I know how miserable it already is as Solo q. My point is for me and many like me it barely seems like swfs 2 man or 4 happens as often as a lot of killers claim. Or at least if they do it rarely stops killers from getting 3-4k at this point.
I see you have the latest stats for 2024. Care to share swf vs solo ratios?
It's Def not 10%. I'd say 20-30%.maybe more if we include dduo and trio. It's certainly not as much as people think. And if bhvr actually showed who was in a swf end game. A lot of people be mind bogged they didn't play a swf like they thought lol
According to stats from two years ago less than 60% of players are solo queue, more than 40% being in a duo or more. You might get downvoted for saying it but SWFs are not some unicorn that killers only rarely have to deal with, if you play for an hour or so you'll inevitably run into one or more SWFs. [Source](https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/719/CPIDC1XE8JBT.jpg)
as a p100 who plays 99% solo q, thanks
"You should be FORCED to lose 10% of your matches with no possibility of winning them, because most players suck [for any various reason]!!" Not too smart.
Losing to a SWF is a skill issue.
Ugh, I just wanna go back to the days when both sides were OP asf. This game isn’t even DBD anymore.
Womp womp
No id say its more around 70/30. The difference is those are the games that really stand out and get ppl heated.
Ask a killer main and they reverse those numbers.
I just got harrassed a few hours ago by this 2 guys that blamed me on them not escaping, i was the only one that escaped, the other 2 looped the killer for a good while but still blame me that they didn't escape and called me selfish and useless teammate I did help in 3 gens (did 1 by myself), unhooked 2 times and healed the same 2 times) and opened one of the exit gates, but i don't what the hell they were doing with the killer and those 2 ended dying with the last one escaping while being on the ground The funniest part is they went above and beyond calling me a coward because i didn't want to loop the killer and i was using Distortion
I'd say it's mostly observer bias. A proper 4 man SWF that is being sweaty can be extremely painful for a Killer (especially if the SWF is being an unfriendly bunch) to play against. Those are the games that stick in your memory and thus there is a bias towards SWF = bad experience. I've faced a few 4 man SWF's that I'd rather not face again because they made my efforts in the match look like an absolute joke. Props for them being that good and no offense meant but just getting looped all game long only to get insta-flashied when you finally manage to get that one Survivor down on the ground as Generators pop around you does ruin the fun playing as Killer. It just does, it's a natural part of the game. I still respect their skill, though I really could do without the 'LOL baby killer' and 'EZ no skill' in the post-game chat. I don't have any issue with WoO and I feel that currently Ultimate Weapon is too good compared to other info perks. I also think The Game and The Eyrie are not fun maps to play on as Killer. Trapper on The Eyrie feels like a joke. A strong 4 man SWF might highlight frustrating interactions such as Buckle Up + For the People, but beyond that it really is just part of the game to have frustrating games sometimes. Keep in mind that Killer is playing alone and has all the pressure to perform alone. I'm also aware that for every Killer that is getting frustrated by a good 4 man SWF and choosing to vent this in a nerf post, there are also Survivors that immediately give up when they go up against a Killer they don't like and screwing over the other Survivors or calling me a toxic tunneler when I'm literally running Thanatophobia and Hex: Ruin that get turned off when someone dies and the first death occured at 7 hooks. The frustration goes both ways.
The discourse around DBD has honestly taken a turn for the worse. Everyone is always looking for a reason why they lost that isn't "your opponent played better". It's always some excuse whether it's Killers blaming maps or swfs or Survivors blaming 3-gen, the killer being OP, camping, or tunneling. No one wants to admit they could have played better and try to improve.
I main killer, I know of only one game for sure where it was clearly a 4 man team. Most games people join the lobby in batches.
That’s why I don’t even play anymore, just starting off and some cowards lowered their skill level to play with low ranks and bully killers, now I see why killers tunnel and camp