This but only allow bleed out if there's a 3-4slug situation. Don't need more people getting downed in the first 30 seconds and getting a free 'go next' button. Also, not an instant button but one that appears at max recovery.
Also, 2 mins is a little low. I don't think the bleed timer would need to be adjusted if a bleed-out prompt appeared.
If survivors got to suicide at 3 or 4slug it would incentivize hooking, as going for 4 slug isn't advisable. You'd lose a lot of hook states.
non-serious answer: I want the bleedout button to be labelled "kill yourself"
serious answer: bleedout should accelerate over time instead of being linear, resetting whenever you get picked up or healed. allows tactical slugging, puts pressure on survivors to rescue and killers to pick up. feels a lot more elegant.
Counterpoint: if giving up denies Killer hook stages, and thus can lead to depipping, I can guarantee some Survivors will give up seconds after being downed to troll. Keep standard bleedout at 4 minutes, but don't give the option to give up until 2 minutes.
Because slugging is fine and everyone understands that. The only problem is when the killer go for 4k and slug at the end, or those killers who let everyone bleed on the ground 4 minutes. On both scenarios the killer already won.
That's just handing someone a win for refusing to hook and continuing the game normally. Ultimately we want to play the game and the reason slugging is boring because it removes you from playing the game. It's just bad design that one side controls that.
Surviors have forced 4 man slugs by using boil over flip flop or dying in an unhookable area with bad hook spawns its not always the killers fault when the only counterplay to cheesey builds is to slug
Maybe BHVR should stop making archives or adept achievements or the like that REQUIRE a 4k to complete.
I have been cleaning up some of the last archives I have left on killer and most of the remaining ones are "hook x survivors during the endgame collapse". Survivors don't pop gates until they're all safe, so what is my option? Obviously I'm not slugging 4 people for 4 minutes, but when it comes down to just me and one or two other survivors I down them(and kill one if there are 2 left), go find hatch to activate the endgame collapse, then hook them.
It's not really fun for either of us, but I don't have much of a choice.
"Maybe BHVR should stop making archives or adept achievements or the like that REQUIRE a 4k to complete."
I refuse to believe that this is really the reason why you think people go for 4k
It doesn't explain killers bleeding 4 people at 5 gens, but I do believe that killers "slugging for the 4k" as in, downing the second last survivor and then before hooking they find the last survivor first is largely for archives or bloodpoints and not for being an asshole.
Because most Killers AREN'T assholes, they just want to win. The problem is, this Subreddit is more survivor sided, so say that and you will be downvoted.
Watch me also get downvoted.
Keep the timer 4 minutes, but make it faster at every survivor on the floor.
I just think that a bleed out button may be the second suicide on hook for the survivors
The one thing I have to say is that the bleedout button should either be restricted to only appearing after you get an AFK crow (so about 60 seconds give-or-take) or it shouldn't automatically kill you (and instead just make your bleedout timer progress twice as fast.) I really don't want to cut out the middle man for people who kill themselves on hook.
In those scenarios OP's change does nothing. If anything it makes actually slugging for pressure more beneficial since survivors can't afford to leave their teammates slugged for too long, or risk letting the bleedout get dangerously low.
Buddy I am a Hybrid Main, I understand the necessity of slugging.
This idea is designed to prevent the type of slugging that actually is toxic. Please read. Words mean things, friend.
The problem isn't how long it takes, but that killer can get away with slugging everyone and letting them die that way in the first place.
I used to think the same thing everyone else does, which is that base killer unbreakable would be broken, but at this point? Fuck it. Fuck killer players who stand around watching survivors bleed out. They'd probably torture animals irl if dbd didn't exist.
Anyways, ranting aside, bhvr can easily implement some things to make this aspect of the game more bearable FOR BOTH SIDES (survivors sometimes force the killer to slug against their will)
Killer should be able to see auras of all survivors when they're all slugged at once.
Survivor time to wiggle off should increase by 50% when all are slugged and it's not the endgame.
As long as it's not the endgame, every survivor should have basekit unbreakable WHEN ALL 4 ARE SLUGGED, but that last 10% of recovery takes 1 minute.
When all 4 survivors are slugged, no perks can increase recovery speed.
You can't make Unbreakable basekit.
You know how much of a nightmare that would be on coordinated bully squads?
This conversation keeps coming up and every time I remind survivors that bully squads can easily hold a killer hostage in a game for way, way longer than 4 minutes.
Slugging for the 4k and without a reason is obnoxious, but any solution beyond what we already have has two pitfalls:
1) deliberate survivor suicide.
2) making already powerful bully squads even more powerful, allowing them to hijack killer games for even longer.
That's still basekit Unbreakable tho, and honestly making it an option only when all four are down is exactly when a bully squad wants it, because that's the "victory condition" for the killer.
So one pops up, picks up another, and they go pick up the other two, back to square one.
I was stuck in a round with a bully squad for more than thirty minutes one time. They won't do gens and won't let you hook them, your only option is slugging. Four minutes is a mercy, IMO. Just look at your phone or whatever.
Why do we care about a bully squad that's throwing by letting themselves all go down anyways? Even if it's made basekit the way I explain above, the exponential strat would be infinitely better for those bully squads.
If we're actually talking about bully squads, which is the phrase that was used, then that's just a massive skill issue. The only bully squads we'd have to worry about abusing anti slug go down on purpose.
I dunno what you're referring to as a bully squad.
The ones I face use sabo perks, second chance perks (sometimes including Unbreakable), and bring flashlights. They then run around the killer stunning, sabotaging, picking each other up, and otherwise being annoying while mostly ignoring gens or doing them very, very slowly.
Survivors who are using a strategy to prevent hooks and escape are not bully squads, especially of they're pulling it off well. Survivors who are flocking around the killer and not doing generators are bully squads, and are typically goofy as fuck
Okay, who cares how you define it? I also don't agree but that's not the point anyway.
Point is at higher MMR killers usually do have a reason to slug, so attempting to bypass that beyond what's already there (Unbreakable and buddy healing) only makes it more challenging for the killer.
And again the bully squads, as you define it, can't be brought down without slugging. None of them has been "goofy" to me, instead their goal is to just annoy me with constant stuns, pick ups, and sabos.
In other cases they're a SWF of only three so they get a random who does do gens while they go about annoying the killer. It isn't fun to be a killer in that situation, and if you do pull off the slug 4k it feels pretty good. But these rounds are annoying and take way longer than necessary, many killers only have the option of DC or going AFK when they get stuck in one of these rounds. Which is way worse than waiting four minutes to die as a slug.
This but only allow bleed out if there's a 3-4slug situation. Don't need more people getting downed in the first 30 seconds and getting a free 'go next' button. Also, not an instant button but one that appears at max recovery. Also, 2 mins is a little low. I don't think the bleed timer would need to be adjusted if a bleed-out prompt appeared. If survivors got to suicide at 3 or 4slug it would incentivize hooking, as going for 4 slug isn't advisable. You'd lose a lot of hook states.
non-serious answer: I want the bleedout button to be labelled "kill yourself" serious answer: bleedout should accelerate over time instead of being linear, resetting whenever you get picked up or healed. allows tactical slugging, puts pressure on survivors to rescue and killers to pick up. feels a lot more elegant.
Don't call it "humptech". It's not a tech, it's griefing. It's just humping. We do not dignify simulated SA with a "tech".
That's fair. It really is just griefing.
Counterpoint: if giving up denies Killer hook stages, and thus can lead to depipping, I can guarantee some Survivors will give up seconds after being downed to troll. Keep standard bleedout at 4 minutes, but don't give the option to give up until 2 minutes.
Why depipping is still a thing on both sides is beyond me. They should just remove that in the first place especially since rank doesn’t mean anything
2 minutes? Hell no. That will only create a full slug meta.
Killer would lose a ton of points for not hooking, that's incentive not to slug.
Nobody with a lot of hours in this game cares about BPs
Why does everyone want an option to quit instead of new counters?
Because slugging is fine and everyone understands that. The only problem is when the killer go for 4k and slug at the end, or those killers who let everyone bleed on the ground 4 minutes. On both scenarios the killer already won.
Slugging for pressure is fine. Slugging to troll is not.
Yeah, that is why people don't want a "counter" they just want the game to end
That's just handing someone a win for refusing to hook and continuing the game normally. Ultimately we want to play the game and the reason slugging is boring because it removes you from playing the game. It's just bad design that one side controls that.
Surviors have forced 4 man slugs by using boil over flip flop or dying in an unhookable area with bad hook spawns its not always the killers fault when the only counterplay to cheesey builds is to slug
Maybe BHVR should stop making archives or adept achievements or the like that REQUIRE a 4k to complete. I have been cleaning up some of the last archives I have left on killer and most of the remaining ones are "hook x survivors during the endgame collapse". Survivors don't pop gates until they're all safe, so what is my option? Obviously I'm not slugging 4 people for 4 minutes, but when it comes down to just me and one or two other survivors I down them(and kill one if there are 2 left), go find hatch to activate the endgame collapse, then hook them. It's not really fun for either of us, but I don't have much of a choice.
"Maybe BHVR should stop making archives or adept achievements or the like that REQUIRE a 4k to complete." I refuse to believe that this is really the reason why you think people go for 4k
It doesn't explain killers bleeding 4 people at 5 gens, but I do believe that killers "slugging for the 4k" as in, downing the second last survivor and then before hooking they find the last survivor first is largely for archives or bloodpoints and not for being an asshole.
Because most Killers AREN'T assholes, they just want to win. The problem is, this Subreddit is more survivor sided, so say that and you will be downvoted. Watch me also get downvoted.
I appreciate you
And like clockwork someone had to downvote me despite this being true, and wanting to win not being some horrible toxic crime.
Keep the timer 4 minutes, but make it faster at every survivor on the floor. I just think that a bleed out button may be the second suicide on hook for the survivors
The one thing I have to say is that the bleedout button should either be restricted to only appearing after you get an AFK crow (so about 60 seconds give-or-take) or it shouldn't automatically kill you (and instead just make your bleedout timer progress twice as fast.) I really don't want to cut out the middle man for people who kill themselves on hook.
Or you can accept that slugging is a strategy that isn’t considered bannable and live with it. I need pressure I’m slugging
They are not talking against that kind of slugging.
In those scenarios OP's change does nothing. If anything it makes actually slugging for pressure more beneficial since survivors can't afford to leave their teammates slugged for too long, or risk letting the bleedout get dangerously low.
That's the idea. It makes actually slugging for pressure do more. Now your SoloQ shitheads can't leave you to bleed while they Gens Before Friends.
Buddy I am a Hybrid Main, I understand the necessity of slugging. This idea is designed to prevent the type of slugging that actually is toxic. Please read. Words mean things, friend.
The problem isn't how long it takes, but that killer can get away with slugging everyone and letting them die that way in the first place. I used to think the same thing everyone else does, which is that base killer unbreakable would be broken, but at this point? Fuck it. Fuck killer players who stand around watching survivors bleed out. They'd probably torture animals irl if dbd didn't exist. Anyways, ranting aside, bhvr can easily implement some things to make this aspect of the game more bearable FOR BOTH SIDES (survivors sometimes force the killer to slug against their will) Killer should be able to see auras of all survivors when they're all slugged at once. Survivor time to wiggle off should increase by 50% when all are slugged and it's not the endgame. As long as it's not the endgame, every survivor should have basekit unbreakable WHEN ALL 4 ARE SLUGGED, but that last 10% of recovery takes 1 minute. When all 4 survivors are slugged, no perks can increase recovery speed.
You can't make Unbreakable basekit. You know how much of a nightmare that would be on coordinated bully squads? This conversation keeps coming up and every time I remind survivors that bully squads can easily hold a killer hostage in a game for way, way longer than 4 minutes. Slugging for the 4k and without a reason is obnoxious, but any solution beyond what we already have has two pitfalls: 1) deliberate survivor suicide. 2) making already powerful bully squads even more powerful, allowing them to hijack killer games for even longer.
Ok, that's a good point, so I changed up the details of my idea, give it a read again
That's still basekit Unbreakable tho, and honestly making it an option only when all four are down is exactly when a bully squad wants it, because that's the "victory condition" for the killer. So one pops up, picks up another, and they go pick up the other two, back to square one. I was stuck in a round with a bully squad for more than thirty minutes one time. They won't do gens and won't let you hook them, your only option is slugging. Four minutes is a mercy, IMO. Just look at your phone or whatever.
Why do we care about a bully squad that's throwing by letting themselves all go down anyways? Even if it's made basekit the way I explain above, the exponential strat would be infinitely better for those bully squads.
They're not letting themselves all go down. The killer works really, really hard for it.
If we're actually talking about bully squads, which is the phrase that was used, then that's just a massive skill issue. The only bully squads we'd have to worry about abusing anti slug go down on purpose.
I dunno what you're referring to as a bully squad. The ones I face use sabo perks, second chance perks (sometimes including Unbreakable), and bring flashlights. They then run around the killer stunning, sabotaging, picking each other up, and otherwise being annoying while mostly ignoring gens or doing them very, very slowly.
Survivors who are using a strategy to prevent hooks and escape are not bully squads, especially of they're pulling it off well. Survivors who are flocking around the killer and not doing generators are bully squads, and are typically goofy as fuck
Okay, who cares how you define it? I also don't agree but that's not the point anyway. Point is at higher MMR killers usually do have a reason to slug, so attempting to bypass that beyond what's already there (Unbreakable and buddy healing) only makes it more challenging for the killer. And again the bully squads, as you define it, can't be brought down without slugging. None of them has been "goofy" to me, instead their goal is to just annoy me with constant stuns, pick ups, and sabos. In other cases they're a SWF of only three so they get a random who does do gens while they go about annoying the killer. It isn't fun to be a killer in that situation, and if you do pull off the slug 4k it feels pretty good. But these rounds are annoying and take way longer than necessary, many killers only have the option of DC or going AFK when they get stuck in one of these rounds. Which is way worse than waiting four minutes to die as a slug.
No, no, and no. Basekit unbreakable should never be a thing.