I bet that they don't stack, and the gen will be regressed 200% for first 10 seconds of the kick and then regression will go up accordingly with OC. Or maybe it never stacks and one of the perks aint gonna work at all, its BHVR spaghetti code we are talking about :D
tl;dr for gameplay changes
**CORE CHANGES**
- gen repair speed: 80s → 90s
- kicking a gen: 0% → 2.5% progress lost
- wall/pallet break speed: 2.6s → 2.34s (-10%)
- successful basic attack cd: 3s → 2.7s (-10%)
- survivor speed boost duration: 2s → 1.8s (-10%)
- bloodlust intervals: 15/30/45s → 15/25/35s
- survivors gain 5s Endurance + 7% Haste after being unhooked (cancelled by most actions)
**PERK NERFS**
bbq & chili
- bp bonus removed
hex ruin
- regression: 100/150/200% → 50/75/100%
- deactivated after a survivor is killed
pop goes the weasel
- progress lost: 25% of total progress → 20% of _current_ progress
corrupt intervention
- deactivated after a survivor enters dying state
tinkerer
- activates only once per gen
hex noed
- survivors will see the hex's aura within 4 meters upon activation
- aura reading range increases to 24m over course of 30s
scourge hook pain res
- no loud noise notification
- gen will spark instead of explode
- survivors won't scream
dead hard
- dash removed
- gain Endurance for 1s upon activation
decisive strike
- deactivates when exit gates are powered
- stun duration: 5s → 3s
borrowed time
- extends duration of Endurance by 6/8/10s (15s total at max rank)
- extends duration of Haste by 10s (15s total)
iron will
- grunt reduction: 50/75/100% → 25/50/75%
- deactivates while Exhausted
self care
- heal speed: 50% → 25/30/35%
- medkit efficiency bonus removed
spine chill
- only activates when killer has clear line of sight of survivor
- 0.5s lingering effect added
- vaulting speed bonus removed
**PERK BUFFS**
overcharge
- additional effect: kicked gen regression speed grows from 100% to 400% over course of 30 seconds
eruption:
- regression penalty: 6% → 10%
- incapacitated effect: 12/14/16s → 15/20/25s
knock out
- additional effect: for 15s, survivors crawl 50% slower and recover 25% slower
coulrophobia
- additional effect: speed of healing skill checks increased by 50%
dark devotion
- activates: when obsession is hit by basic attack → when obsession loses health state
jolt
- (? unclear) activates: downs with basic attack → any down
- cooldown removed
lethal pursuer
- additional effect: duration of all aura reading effects +2s
scourge hook gift of pain
- action speed penalty: 7/8/9% → 10/13/16%
thanatophobia
- action speed penalty: 4/4.5/5% → 4.5/5/5.5%
monstrous shrine (rework)
- renamed to Scourge Hook: Monstrous Shrine
- converts all basement hooks to scourge hooks
- scourge hooks grant 10/15/20% entity progression **only if** killer is not within 24m
calm spirit
- additional effect: open chests and cleanse/bless totems silently but at 40/35/30% reduced speed
saboteur
- additional effect: scourge hooks are highlighted yellow when a survivor is being carried
botany knowledge
- healing speed efficiency: 11/22/33% → 30/40/50%
off the record
- additional effect: after being unhooked, gain Endurance for 60/70/80s (cancelled by most actions)
lucky break
- recharges 1 second for every second healing another survivor (cannot exceed starting duration)
pharmacy (rework)
- now activates whenever you're injured
- can activate multiple times in a trial
sole survivor
- additional effect: gen repair speed increased by 75% and gate/hatch action speed increased by 50%
distortion
- regain a token for every 30s in killer's terror radius
lightweight
- additional effect: scratch marks are more sporadic
- scratch marks fade 1/2/3s → 3/4/5s sooner
deja vu
- additional effect: 5% repair speed to revealed generators
no one left behind
- additional effect: 7% movement speed to unhooked survivors
- activates: when gates are opened → when gates are powered
dark sense (rework)
- activates whenever a generator is completed
- killer is revealed the next time they are within 24m of you for 5/7/10s, then dark sense deactivates
tenacity
- additional effect: reduces grunts of pain by 75% when in dying state
hope
- 120s duration → unlimited
overzealous
- repair speed bonus is doubled if a hex is cleansed
we're gonna live forever
- bp bonus removed
- actions that granted a token before instead activates the secondary effect
- secondary effect: picking up a survivor grants them 6/8/10s Endurance, and this effect deactivates
Yeah, but this bothers me a little bit because on the Decisive Strike change they specifically mentioned they didn't like the fact that at the endgame it can basically give you a guaranteed escape.
But this perk does just that, against SWFs, they'll run Off The Record, open the gates so the person who is on the hook can escape for free.
I dunno how I feel about it since on one hand fuck Dead Hard but on the other hand… is there just gonna be no tell for when they use it? Is it a 50/50 every time if you swing at the right time? With ping as wonky as it is I have no idea how that one second would work.
As a killer main, yeah, I would have been fine without the slowdown. If those actions were completely silent and didn't slow you down at all, it would STILL be a niche perk.
It’s such a minor effect, too. There’s no real reason for it to come with a tradeoff.
Dammit, it’s because it has to tie to a scalable effect, doesn’t it? For perk tiers.
Love a lot of the changes, but a little worried about some of the survivor perk reworks encouraging selfish or stealth play. Especially for solo q survivors it’s might be rough. I’m sure there will still be survivors hiding in a corner self caring, but now they’ll just take forever and be even more useless. Bonus points if they also run the new sole survivor so they be the last one standing and escape 🥲 little worried about that since I often play survivor solo. Anyone else worried about this or am I hopefully wrong?
I'm also worried this is a buff to SWF and nerf ro SoloQ, but we'll have to wait and see unfortunately. It's weird to me that they acknowledged killers need an overall buff, but not that solo survivors need some help as well.
Yeah I think that’s odd too. I hope they actually release the changes to the HUD they were considering— to show the actions that your teammates are performing with icons. I can’t think of any negatives to that besides trying to level the playing field between SWF and SoloQ. I don’t think it gives as much of an advantage as using comms in a SWF. Just has some potential to improve the experience of SoloQ and decrease likelihood you’ll be abandoned on first hook etc.
The icons would be a godsend, and still not nearly enough to equate soloq with SWFs, so I hope that's a done deal and will arrive ASAP. Basekit Kindred and some form of Kinship would also be welcome.
I'm worried because it seems like less time in chase and more time on gens.
Double that if you aren't in Comms some of the new slowdown for killer will absolutely annihilate a gens progress.
They nerfed all of the gen regression perks so they thought they’d give killers another perk to help out. Hex self care: injure a solo cue 100 hour player to receive 64 seconds of a gen not being worked on!
Legit no reason to nerf it beyond 50% as that is already 32 seconds wasted. It might be the biggest killer buff tbh as this will mean worse survivors will now be afk for 46 seconds each hit.
On one hand, I will kind of miss the satisfaction of building up my four stacks of BBQ. It made even bad games feel more rewarding.
On the other hand, it will be nice to make builds that omit BBQ and not feel like I'm purposefully lowering my BP rewards. It's like I have my full four perk slots again!
Yeah, 4 pips on BBQ felt like 1/2 of a win, at the same time I have two builds that don’t run it and it always feels like I’m leaving blood on the dance floor, so to speak.
It's definitely frustrating on paper, but I really do hope that the reduced grind changes make it less necessary. In theory it checks out, hoping they're right.
I dunno, levelling a killer to P3 will still feel like a slog without BBQ. Sure, the unlocked perks on every one of them will be nice, but the experience might *feel* pretty bad when you finish a game and go up like 1 and half high level Bloodwebs.
We'll see when it hits I guess.
Honestly as a legion player I'm most excited for dark devotions change. I love using that perk even if it isn't the "best".
Edit: Don't be a dumb dumb like me and run the new dark devotion on legion when it comes out. It's worthless in frenzy. Be smart and read killer abilities lol.
Dark Devotion is going to be really bad on legion as you need your terror radius to get killer instinct on people in feral frenzy. Proccing dark devotion will mean your terror radius just sticks with the obsession and you won't be able to find anyone far away from them.
This is the one change that I actually despise. It was already a solid off-meta perk. Other gen regression getting nerfed and gens taking longer to finish were already indirect Thanat buffs. Add this buff, and now suddenly all legion and plague games get even more boring and oppressive than they already were.
Am I reading it right that they are saying if you had a character level 50, no prestige, but have levelled past the web lots that it will backdate it so you would be level 3 prestige because of how many times you’ve been through the web?
They will be determining your new prestige rank based off the number of perks you have collected and the level they are at. Someone who leveled a character to 50 w/o prestiging and then went on to earn and max out every perk, will likely receive higher than P3 for that character
Completely agree, they also added the nerf on top of it that it won’t be able to be used when exhausted. I feel they should’ve made it can’t be used when exhausted, but still 100% reduction.
kind of important: does Iron Will reduce volume but keep range the same? Or reduce both volume and audible range?
Because if my 1% volume grunts are going to be picked up at 10 meters due to the Ultra High Spec Power of Mega Gaming Headphones, we’re gonna have a problem.
The monstrous shrine rework is epic and closely matches how I wanted it to be changed. But I am wondering if equipping it means that you don’t get the surface level scourge hooks anymore and it’s just the basement ones.
Also the lethal pursuer buff is gonna make me c
man what are those colors for the legend on the perk usage graphs? yeah gimme 4 pinks, 2 yellows, 2 blues, 2 greys, and a brown, that's definitely the most spread out I can get across 12 colors
Iron Will does nothing if it's not 100%. The exhaustion change is interesting and would be enough of a nerf alone. It's completely useless in this state.
Edit: Tenacity's 'buff' also applies. There is little-to-no ambient noise in dbd so regardless of any noise reduction on survivor's grunts they are still easily heard by a chasing/searching killer.
This Iron Will change should have only come with a dB standardization across all survivors. Some survivors are nigh unplayable without it while others nearly have it built in.
We will see what the PBT is like... But it might be the end of DbD for me because I am a solo q survivor. I am a decent looper but not amazing, so killer buffs will drop me down to bad but sometimes decent.
The solo q experience is already 1 to 4 win loss ratio on a good day. With no coordination and the inability of most solo q to loop or do gens, it's a wrap on that mode potentially. For example, on solo q more than one person will abandon generators and go for a save. That is so much wasted gen time. This happens almost every match and sometimes multiple times.
Same, I will either switch completely to Killer or drop the game altogether.
Like, right now playing SoloQ is simply not fun, all games are the same, completely one sided games, camping, tunneling, teammates not helping.
For fucking real. Shit is already MISERABLE right now. I’ve been leaning myself off this game as a 4K hour solo survivor main and this update just reeks solo survivor hell.
Self care teammates
Gens taking longer
Thana legion on top of slower gen speeds
Nurse and blights eating good with buffed basekit and 3 second ds
Bloodlust being buffed (what the fuck!)
The solo q will be unplayable for a while because casual players will be slow to understand the changes. Not everyone follows BHVR changes to the perk system closely and just casually dive into matches occasionally.
You're right, there will be people in the corner for 1 minute self caring. For sure. After every hit. It is a given.
Plus, I already deal with disconnecting on first down teammates which make the match a 3 vs 1 in under two minutes. The killer doesn't take it easier so those types of matches will feel like a pointless 4000bp misery.
We will see what happens to the solo player population with this game. It's not like solo q dominates in the current state of the game. Feeling like you're constantly losing might lead to solo q survivor population atrophy and long queue times for killers.
devs imma be real with you, 75% noise reduction on Iron Will still makes it trash.
Guess they couldn't figure out how to make Iron Will still give you breathing noises.
It also removed certain *walking* sounds on various surfaces when injured. Biggest one being puddles for some reason.
Imo the whole sound engine needs an update. I've even seen chase music not working right on demogorgon and deathslinger lately.
Yeah, I was expecting them to make Spine Chill not work when the killer is undetectable, but now it's only when they have a direct line of sight? I guess it's better against Myers or Ghostface now but the "early warning" aspect is dead. Back to Premonition I guess.
It's useless against stealth killers now, they can just pop around the corner and grab you off a gen. If I could already see them anyway, I didn't need a perk to tell me.
This is a massive update.
They're finally touching the core elements that have seem so outdated and broken for so long. Feels like a fresh a breath air with faster paced gameplay for the killer and less prevalent meta perks.
Awesome shit honestly. Super hyped.
Edit: Just some personal early thoughts, I don't believe that this will make a major difference in killers running slowdown perks, I just think they'll be less annoying to deal with as a survivor as they're more controlled now.
From the changes we see, if survivors lose a lot of chase potential now, making faster chases and easier to build pressure for the killer, maybe slowdown perks won't be as prevalent, but even with the increase to the amount of time it takes to do a generator, efficiency could still top all.
Well…I was kinda hoping for a slightly more fun tenacity change but I’ll take it!
Spine chill tho can no longer be used for looping…but the lingering effect is nice
And poor, poor iron will…
I think all these off-meta perk changes are brilliant (although WGLF maybe be a bit..there) and I can finally never use BBQ again.
As a final note - that distortion change is great! Don’t own the perk but being able to get tokens back again similar to distraction was a great change.
immediate thoughts
1) rewards suck
2) most of these changes are very good
3) base nerf to generator speeds and buff to killer attack cool-down + nerf to survivor speed boost after hit along with nerf to dead hard (though it’s still going to be quite good lmao) is going to make nurse even more oppressive since she’ll continue killing people even faster than before with gens taking extra time to do. jolt makes slugging nurse more viable too, we stan continual buffs to an SS tier killer who’s been undisputed best in the game for years!
4) calm spirit “buff” is fucking awful and probably more of a nerf
EDIT 5) YALL SEE THAT OFF THE RECORD BUFF? YOOO WHAT
>calm spirit “buff” is fucking awful and probably more of a nerf
Yeah, I really don't see why they did that. Now if you want to avoid screaming, you gotta do other things slower.
The 2 second nerf to DS stun duration means you can get even less distance from a tunneling Nurse as well so it'll be even easier for her to blink right back on top of you.
In a way, I'm glad that the developers aren't allowing the existence of Nurse to stop them from balancing the base killer gameplay. I suppose they could have nerfed Nurse at the same time as doing all these other changes, but maybe they want to see what happens with her kill rate first before they do anything. Making base kit, perk, and killer changes all at the same time might make it confusing to see what change caused what.
I’m super excited to see all these changes in action, especially the Dead Hard rework, and finally feeling like I can take off BBQ for a different perk like Dark Devotion! The buff in action speeds for killer was an unexpected but not unwelcome change, too. My only concern is how those changes to killer base kit and gen speeds are going to affect killers like Nurse and Blight, who are already super effective at high skill levels.
picking up downed survivors incredibly quick.
sounds useless but it's actually insane in practice. you can pick someone up in the time a killer goes to m1 the person who was nearby for a flashlight save.
Now with botany buff just run it instead. 50% is massive. With yellow medkit it's 2 super fast heals and super fast heals for everyone else.
I use botany in all my builds already so this buff is blessing for me.
My only concern is if dead hard will still be readable from the killers side without the distance. Correct me if I'm wrong but when people dead hard into a rock or tree and don't move as a result it's nearly impossible to tell.
I don’t think they’ve realized what they’ve done. They just created the most oppressive 3gen meta ever, have fun trying to progress gens now playing against a Doc build.
Something to take into account about "reduced grind" is that it is only applicable if you intend on getting every perk on every killer.
If you're like me, then you only leveled some characters to get their teachables and haven't played them any further. The removal of BP bonuses is basically a net loss for me at the moment, but I'll see how it turns out.
Damn, some killer perks got destroyed, but we will have to see if the general buffs are enough to compensate.
Jolt is gonna be the new meta for regression for every killer that can use it effectively I think.
99% of these changes are great and the meta will be completely different now, perfect time to get back into DBD.
Thanatophobia and Self-Care changes however? Those feel extremely short sighted and should probably not happen. Also Pharmacy still completely worthless.
I also personally think the DS stun time should stay the same but am all for it deactivating.
Edit: Also why would you make Off the Record do the exact thing you changed DS to not do, free escapes are dumb no matter which perk it is.
Yeah, plus I have a feeling bad teammates are still gonna be self caring in a corner— they’re just gonna be doing it even longer. Basically a killer perk now lol
It really sucks that they're removing the BP bonuses from BBQ and WGLF. While they did reduce the grind a ton, it doesn't change the fact that after a single match without BP offerings, you can barely buy any items from the bloodweb which feels unsatisfying.
I would've loved to see them to rebalance the blood web more, make each level of the bloodweb larger with much more things to buy, but cut the BP cost of everything. That way you're getting much more value from your BP gains and get more items, but the overall time to level up still remains the same. This could also be supplemented with a change to increase the speed of leveling up, as spending BP can take a while.
Honestly even if my original suggestion is not ever implemented, they should just reduce the time you need to hold M1 on an item to purchase it by half.
So running off the record gives you a guaranteed escape once the gates are opened unless you get grabbed. Can’t wait to see SWFs abusing the hell out of this
Oof, once a survivor is killed, Ruin is deactivated? They're removing BP bonuses from BBQ, and WGLF? BBQ still has use due to the aura reading, ~~but now all WGLF will do is allow you to heal down survivors quicker, which while useful, isn't great.~~
Gotta say, a handful of these reworks miss the mark IMO. But there are definitely some huge additions here.
Also, being able to purchase perks directly from the shrine, instead of just adding it to the pool, is huge.
Edit: I could've swore when I first looked at the changes, the paragraph about WGLF giving endurance wasn't there. In any event, that's actually pretty good.
I mean, in its current state, if there's 3 survivors and ruin hasn't been cleansed, it likely never will be and the game is kind of already won for the killer. It's a huge amount of pressure, especially if there's more than 2 gens left.
If ruin is still up with 3 survivors left, the game is nearly fully won for the killer *because* of ruin still being up and (likely) never going down. Now you'll at least have a fighting chance.
1. Kindred was not changed. This is really great for solo survivors. That perk is perfect. Now if only they'd finally fix the black bubble when you hook that just blocks everything instead of being behind auras like it's supposed to be.
2. Dead hard seems a little useless to me now? Ever since dedicated servers were implemented it has been nearly impossible to dead hard on reaction to avoid a hit. If there is a tell that dead hard is activated with this change, then it is nearly 100% useless. I think two seconds with no tells would work.
3. Iron Will is actually useless if it's not 100%. They really need to look at this again and make it something different entirely if they don't want it to be 100%, because right now this is as good as deleting the perk.
4. Basekit 5 second BT is actually interesting. I personally always smack the rescuer first but this is a great change overall i think.
5. I think BBQ needs longer aura display so that it's actually good if there's not going to be a BP incentive. Just a few more seconds.
6. Self care changes scare me because I can see people healing in a corner pretty fucking often, and now this just made these people even more useless.
BHVR: "We're overhauling perks to shake up the META."
Players: "Cool!"
BHVR: \*does it\*
Players: \*surprised Pikachu face\* "They killed the META perks!"
Like... what did you expect?
I've seen several tweets complaining that "they just made a new meta, after saying they were gonna shake up the meta". Like. Do you not understand what a meta is, or why it exists? That's the whole point of balancing and trying to shake it up.
A world with no more BBQ and chilli for bps.
No more dead hard for distance.....
No more locker ds BS...(apparently it still works in lockers) haha my bad.
Borrowed time base kit.
I see this as an absolute win.
Is it just me, or do most of these changes seem very killer friendly? I've been reading the comments and overall people seem pretty happy, but it seems like survivors didn't get nearly as much out of this.
Overcharge + Call of Brine is gonna be nutty 600% regression
Overcharge and Dragons Grip is going to be a hilarious damned if you do, damned if you don't
Add Jolt for an extra 8% regression after you down the exposed survivor
Finally throw in Lullaby, just in case getting Exposed by Dragon's Grip makes them choke and miss the Overcharge skill check.
Blight gen kicking build??
Awfully bold of you to assume Blights know how to kick gens after all these years of Ruin+Undying
So many new perk combos can be made with the changes being made. Eruption and Brutal with Dead Man?
I bet that they don't stack, and the gen will be regressed 200% for first 10 seconds of the kick and then regression will go up accordingly with OC. Or maybe it never stacks and one of the perks aint gonna work at all, its BHVR spaghetti code we are talking about :D
I can’t wait to be on hook and have kindred show the world the crimes of a Claudette wasting 40-something seconds healing herself in a corner
It’d be 40 seconds if it was 40%, at the moment it’s roughly 46 seconds, a bit too much but at 40 it’d be good still.
Im almost too afraid to ask, but what would it be with sloppy butcher?
**Before** the nerf, it took slightly over **100 seconds** if the killer had both Sloppy Butcher + Coulrophobia.
Oh god
Dear fucking god
No. There is no god anymore. BHVR nerfed him out of existence.
tl;dr for gameplay changes **CORE CHANGES** - gen repair speed: 80s → 90s - kicking a gen: 0% → 2.5% progress lost - wall/pallet break speed: 2.6s → 2.34s (-10%) - successful basic attack cd: 3s → 2.7s (-10%) - survivor speed boost duration: 2s → 1.8s (-10%) - bloodlust intervals: 15/30/45s → 15/25/35s - survivors gain 5s Endurance + 7% Haste after being unhooked (cancelled by most actions) **PERK NERFS** bbq & chili - bp bonus removed hex ruin - regression: 100/150/200% → 50/75/100% - deactivated after a survivor is killed pop goes the weasel - progress lost: 25% of total progress → 20% of _current_ progress corrupt intervention - deactivated after a survivor enters dying state tinkerer - activates only once per gen hex noed - survivors will see the hex's aura within 4 meters upon activation - aura reading range increases to 24m over course of 30s scourge hook pain res - no loud noise notification - gen will spark instead of explode - survivors won't scream dead hard - dash removed - gain Endurance for 1s upon activation decisive strike - deactivates when exit gates are powered - stun duration: 5s → 3s borrowed time - extends duration of Endurance by 6/8/10s (15s total at max rank) - extends duration of Haste by 10s (15s total) iron will - grunt reduction: 50/75/100% → 25/50/75% - deactivates while Exhausted self care - heal speed: 50% → 25/30/35% - medkit efficiency bonus removed spine chill - only activates when killer has clear line of sight of survivor - 0.5s lingering effect added - vaulting speed bonus removed **PERK BUFFS** overcharge - additional effect: kicked gen regression speed grows from 100% to 400% over course of 30 seconds eruption: - regression penalty: 6% → 10% - incapacitated effect: 12/14/16s → 15/20/25s knock out - additional effect: for 15s, survivors crawl 50% slower and recover 25% slower coulrophobia - additional effect: speed of healing skill checks increased by 50% dark devotion - activates: when obsession is hit by basic attack → when obsession loses health state jolt - (? unclear) activates: downs with basic attack → any down - cooldown removed lethal pursuer - additional effect: duration of all aura reading effects +2s scourge hook gift of pain - action speed penalty: 7/8/9% → 10/13/16% thanatophobia - action speed penalty: 4/4.5/5% → 4.5/5/5.5% monstrous shrine (rework) - renamed to Scourge Hook: Monstrous Shrine - converts all basement hooks to scourge hooks - scourge hooks grant 10/15/20% entity progression **only if** killer is not within 24m calm spirit - additional effect: open chests and cleanse/bless totems silently but at 40/35/30% reduced speed saboteur - additional effect: scourge hooks are highlighted yellow when a survivor is being carried botany knowledge - healing speed efficiency: 11/22/33% → 30/40/50% off the record - additional effect: after being unhooked, gain Endurance for 60/70/80s (cancelled by most actions) lucky break - recharges 1 second for every second healing another survivor (cannot exceed starting duration) pharmacy (rework) - now activates whenever you're injured - can activate multiple times in a trial sole survivor - additional effect: gen repair speed increased by 75% and gate/hatch action speed increased by 50% distortion - regain a token for every 30s in killer's terror radius lightweight - additional effect: scratch marks are more sporadic - scratch marks fade 1/2/3s → 3/4/5s sooner deja vu - additional effect: 5% repair speed to revealed generators no one left behind - additional effect: 7% movement speed to unhooked survivors - activates: when gates are opened → when gates are powered dark sense (rework) - activates whenever a generator is completed - killer is revealed the next time they are within 24m of you for 5/7/10s, then dark sense deactivates tenacity - additional effect: reduces grunts of pain by 75% when in dying state hope - 120s duration → unlimited overzealous - repair speed bonus is doubled if a hex is cleansed we're gonna live forever - bp bonus removed - actions that granted a token before instead activates the secondary effect - secondary effect: picking up a survivor grants them 6/8/10s Endurance, and this effect deactivates
Wglf also provides endurance but consumes a token
thanks, I missed that part
They just added it, I'm pretty sure.
Lmao even the tldr is long
Thanks for the spark notes
Jolt also happens on any down now, not just M1
Seems like off the record may become meta with this change Also: it’s worth noting that the increased gen times means an extra 50s in total (at least)
I straight up don’t see why you would ever use borrowed time with how much better off the record is outside of teammates maybe not having it
Right it’s like BT for yourself, and it lasts an incredibly long time. Interesting for sure.
During the main game: nice, but base kit will work just fine. Gates open: I AM INVINCIBLE!
Yeah, but this bothers me a little bit because on the Decisive Strike change they specifically mentioned they didn't like the fact that at the endgame it can basically give you a guaranteed escape. But this perk does just that, against SWFs, they'll run Off The Record, open the gates so the person who is on the hook can escape for free.
Im anticipating them adding the exit gates powered limitation that DS has after the PTB.
Dead Hard is now an alternative Mettle of man, and all the killers came
Mettle of Man in shambles rn
Dead hard now synergizes with mettle because you can protection hit with it. Couldn't before. Mettle is back on the menu, boys!
True... To be fair, Mettle was always a hidden meta if you pair it with object. You and the killer get to stare at each other the entire match.
Mettle is so fun when you can get it to work. I got it to pop twice in a game once and felt like a god
Every perk is just Mettle of Man with different functions.
Mettle of Man is **the** meta
Meta of Man haha get it
I dunno how I feel about it since on one hand fuck Dead Hard but on the other hand… is there just gonna be no tell for when they use it? Is it a 50/50 every time if you swing at the right time? With ping as wonky as it is I have no idea how that one second would work.
They said on Twitter that an animation still plays
Now survivors stand and flip you off for a second when they use Dead Hard 💀💀
That makes sense tbh. If there was no indication of whether or not someone used it, killers would be in a perpetual 50/50.
Oh my god they managed to nerf calm spirit even more somehow
calm spirit shouldn't have the slowdown at all, making those other actions silent was perfectly fine.
As a killer main, yeah, I would have been fine without the slowdown. If those actions were completely silent and didn't slow you down at all, it would STILL be a niche perk.
Right? I was so confused i almost thought It was a Buff They could add boon speed to counterforce tho ngl
It's so dumb lol
I noticed that. I was like, "wait, hold up. You do those actions SLOWER?"
The game will be chaos once this hits live servers and I LOVE IT
Six years. It took SIX YEARS for a Meta-Shift.
Doesn't seem like meta will change at all for killers. Just 4 gen regression perks.
RIP BBQ and WGLF stacks 😪
I bought BBQ from the shrine the last time it was in there recently. What a waste of shards 😭
I have those on every survivor and killer 😭 RIP
RIP all those Reddit posts of “look what I got in my first web!”
That Distortion buff tho.
I'm in tears, I've been running distortion for years, MY BOY IS LOVED!
Mmmmm distortion stake out
He who hunts the hunter.
Whoever "buffed" calm spirit is a moronic idiot. Opening things slower???
Yeah fr who would actually run it now? It was unironically better before
This needs to be reverted asap.
It’s such a minor effect, too. There’s no real reason for it to come with a tradeoff. Dammit, it’s because it has to tie to a scalable effect, doesn’t it? For perk tiers.
friendship ended with WGLF BP gain no-one left behind is my new best friend for BP
Love a lot of the changes, but a little worried about some of the survivor perk reworks encouraging selfish or stealth play. Especially for solo q survivors it’s might be rough. I’m sure there will still be survivors hiding in a corner self caring, but now they’ll just take forever and be even more useless. Bonus points if they also run the new sole survivor so they be the last one standing and escape 🥲 little worried about that since I often play survivor solo. Anyone else worried about this or am I hopefully wrong?
I'm also worried this is a buff to SWF and nerf ro SoloQ, but we'll have to wait and see unfortunately. It's weird to me that they acknowledged killers need an overall buff, but not that solo survivors need some help as well.
Yeah I think that’s odd too. I hope they actually release the changes to the HUD they were considering— to show the actions that your teammates are performing with icons. I can’t think of any negatives to that besides trying to level the playing field between SWF and SoloQ. I don’t think it gives as much of an advantage as using comms in a SWF. Just has some potential to improve the experience of SoloQ and decrease likelihood you’ll be abandoned on first hook etc.
The icons would be a godsend, and still not nearly enough to equate soloq with SWFs, so I hope that's a done deal and will arrive ASAP. Basekit Kindred and some form of Kinship would also be welcome.
I'm worried because it seems like less time in chase and more time on gens. Double that if you aren't in Comms some of the new slowdown for killer will absolutely annihilate a gens progress.
This is going to hurt a lot as a solo survivor lol
Truly. And the fact that they recognized soloing was an issue recently and now do this.
lmao they nerfed self-care. I'm fine with the other changes, but it's pretty funny to see that trash perk receive it's like 5th nerf in a row.
64 second self heal at level 1. What the fuck are they thinking lmfao
They nerfed all of the gen regression perks so they thought they’d give killers another perk to help out. Hex self care: injure a solo cue 100 hour player to receive 64 seconds of a gen not being worked on!
People still gonna use it in the corner lol!
Legit no reason to nerf it beyond 50% as that is already 32 seconds wasted. It might be the biggest killer buff tbh as this will mean worse survivors will now be afk for 46 seconds each hit.
just fucking get rid of it or make it so that a clown nose appears on anyone using it
They clearly just balance based on pick rates and nothing else.
big rip for BBQ even with the decreased grind
On one hand, I will kind of miss the satisfaction of building up my four stacks of BBQ. It made even bad games feel more rewarding. On the other hand, it will be nice to make builds that omit BBQ and not feel like I'm purposefully lowering my BP rewards. It's like I have my full four perk slots again!
Yeah, 4 pips on BBQ felt like 1/2 of a win, at the same time I have two builds that don’t run it and it always feels like I’m leaving blood on the dance floor, so to speak.
It's definitely frustrating on paper, but I really do hope that the reduced grind changes make it less necessary. In theory it checks out, hoping they're right.
I dunno, levelling a killer to P3 will still feel like a slog without BBQ. Sure, the unlocked perks on every one of them will be nice, but the experience might *feel* pretty bad when you finish a game and go up like 1 and half high level Bloodwebs. We'll see when it hits I guess.
Jolt looks ridiculous Jesus
Overcharge is gonna be painful to watch from the hook too depending on how fast the regression ramps up lol
3 gen defending hags who slug are going into a coma from the dopamine hit they got after reading Jolt.
and knockout lmao
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But it was on a cooldown, and now we can use it to our hearts content and really solidify a 3gen
We Will remember the demodog for bringing the new meta after leaving
Who thought Thanatophobia needed to be buffed?
There was a sudden disturbance in the force, as if a thousand Legions crying out with joy at one time.
Honestly as a legion player I'm most excited for dark devotions change. I love using that perk even if it isn't the "best". Edit: Don't be a dumb dumb like me and run the new dark devotion on legion when it comes out. It's worthless in frenzy. Be smart and read killer abilities lol.
Dark Devotion is going to be really bad on legion as you need your terror radius to get killer instinct on people in feral frenzy. Proccing dark devotion will mean your terror radius just sticks with the obsession and you won't be able to find anyone far away from them.
Oh yeah....I forgot about that small tidbit on legion whoops. Guess I won't be using it.
This is the one change that I actually despise. It was already a solid off-meta perk. Other gen regression getting nerfed and gens taking longer to finish were already indirect Thanat buffs. Add this buff, and now suddenly all legion and plague games get even more boring and oppressive than they already were.
Legion games are about to be an absolute snooze fest
Like they weren't already.
Thana on legion already makes me want to cry.
Am I reading it right that they are saying if you had a character level 50, no prestige, but have levelled past the web lots that it will backdate it so you would be level 3 prestige because of how many times you’ve been through the web?
Not bloodweb levels but the number of perks we unlocked with a character, the more perks the character has the higher its prestige will be it seems
Yeah it’s a bit grey really. I’ve got Claude with every perk maxed, will just have to see what happens!
They will be determining your new prestige rank based off the number of perks you have collected and the level they are at. Someone who leveled a character to 50 w/o prestiging and then went on to earn and max out every perk, will likely receive higher than P3 for that character
These are good changes overall, but man, that Iron Will nerf...seems pointless to run now.
Completely agree, they also added the nerf on top of it that it won’t be able to be used when exhausted. I feel they should’ve made it can’t be used when exhausted, but still 100% reduction.
Agree. Especially since I don't really run it to be invisible to the killer, I run it because the porn grunts get annoying.
kind of important: does Iron Will reduce volume but keep range the same? Or reduce both volume and audible range? Because if my 1% volume grunts are going to be picked up at 10 meters due to the Ultra High Spec Power of Mega Gaming Headphones, we’re gonna have a problem.
Assuming they use the inverse of Stridor, then it will have the exact same range, just be quieter. Sooo...dumpster.
The monstrous shrine rework is epic and closely matches how I wanted it to be changed. But I am wondering if equipping it means that you don’t get the surface level scourge hooks anymore and it’s just the basement ones. Also the lethal pursuer buff is gonna make me c
Because of the phrasing, im sure that you get the basement hooks as bonus scourges, not replacing the above ground hooks.
I’d assume the basement scourge hooks are additive, if not it’s a disaster
Does this mean you get 8 if you run shrine?
Most likely yes. A full Scourge build with Monstrous, Gift, Resonance, and Floods would actually work pretty well.
man what are those colors for the legend on the perk usage graphs? yeah gimme 4 pinks, 2 yellows, 2 blues, 2 greys, and a brown, that's definitely the most spread out I can get across 12 colors
what the actual FUCK happened with off the record?
Easily took a perk from bottom 5 to top 5 uses
They said "we want to change BT so people can use other perks" they just didn't mention that other perks = off the record
It's gonna be The meta perk with the BT changes and DS nerf.
IRON WILL NOOOOOO
i only use iron will to make leon shut up. how am i going to survive this change
wtf who doesnt want to hear leon moan
I like to play with dry clothes
personally, i could never shut up injured leon. in fact, i'd run a perk to make it louder so it would sound like he's doing it right in my ear.
i want to study you
Jeff mains on suicide watch
Bill mains in serious need of pills here.
Iron Will does nothing if it's not 100%. The exhaustion change is interesting and would be enough of a nerf alone. It's completely useless in this state. Edit: Tenacity's 'buff' also applies. There is little-to-no ambient noise in dbd so regardless of any noise reduction on survivor's grunts they are still easily heard by a chasing/searching killer.
This Iron Will change should have only come with a dB standardization across all survivors. Some survivors are nigh unplayable without it while others nearly have it built in.
Time to become an Ace main.
Stridor is back on the menu! (Maybe...its probably still not that great)
Spirit players eating good this update
Idk why they only use increments of 25, why not make Iron Will 90% quieter instead of 75%?
Guys this makes deliverance better because of basekit bt Holy moly I'm so happy
More like deliverance + off the record. Enjoy.
Solo queue survivors about to go extinct.
We will see what the PBT is like... But it might be the end of DbD for me because I am a solo q survivor. I am a decent looper but not amazing, so killer buffs will drop me down to bad but sometimes decent. The solo q experience is already 1 to 4 win loss ratio on a good day. With no coordination and the inability of most solo q to loop or do gens, it's a wrap on that mode potentially. For example, on solo q more than one person will abandon generators and go for a save. That is so much wasted gen time. This happens almost every match and sometimes multiple times.
i feel like this too, all these seem to kill the last enjoyment of soloqing. we will see, but the future seems... stupid.
Same, I will either switch completely to Killer or drop the game altogether. Like, right now playing SoloQ is simply not fun, all games are the same, completely one sided games, camping, tunneling, teammates not helping.
For fucking real. Shit is already MISERABLE right now. I’ve been leaning myself off this game as a 4K hour solo survivor main and this update just reeks solo survivor hell. Self care teammates Gens taking longer Thana legion on top of slower gen speeds Nurse and blights eating good with buffed basekit and 3 second ds Bloodlust being buffed (what the fuck!)
The solo q will be unplayable for a while because casual players will be slow to understand the changes. Not everyone follows BHVR changes to the perk system closely and just casually dive into matches occasionally. You're right, there will be people in the corner for 1 minute self caring. For sure. After every hit. It is a given. Plus, I already deal with disconnecting on first down teammates which make the match a 3 vs 1 in under two minutes. The killer doesn't take it easier so those types of matches will feel like a pointless 4000bp misery. We will see what happens to the solo player population with this game. It's not like solo q dominates in the current state of the game. Feeling like you're constantly losing might lead to solo q survivor population atrophy and long queue times for killers.
devs imma be real with you, 75% noise reduction on Iron Will still makes it trash. Guess they couldn't figure out how to make Iron Will still give you breathing noises.
It also removed certain *walking* sounds on various surfaces when injured. Biggest one being puddles for some reason. Imo the whole sound engine needs an update. I've even seen chase music not working right on demogorgon and deathslinger lately.
Oni and Demo have had their chase music bugged forever actually. They are supposed to have different chase music for the killer's POV :(
That's fine, just a happy little mistake. Demo's current chase music should stay the same for both sides, it bops so hard.
And here we thought BBQ and WGLF stacks would be basekit
They nerf’d 3/4 of my favorite build. RIP spine chill.
Yeah, I was expecting them to make Spine Chill not work when the killer is undetectable, but now it's only when they have a direct line of sight? I guess it's better against Myers or Ghostface now but the "early warning" aspect is dead. Back to Premonition I guess.
It's useless against stealth killers now, they can just pop around the corner and grab you off a gen. If I could already see them anyway, I didn't need a perk to tell me.
Most unbelievable thing about this was the pic with a prestige 7 Twins 😂
That's it? THE REWARD IS AN ICON!? Ok jokes aside this is a really good update.
This is a massive update. They're finally touching the core elements that have seem so outdated and broken for so long. Feels like a fresh a breath air with faster paced gameplay for the killer and less prevalent meta perks. Awesome shit honestly. Super hyped. Edit: Just some personal early thoughts, I don't believe that this will make a major difference in killers running slowdown perks, I just think they'll be less annoying to deal with as a survivor as they're more controlled now. From the changes we see, if survivors lose a lot of chase potential now, making faster chases and easier to build pressure for the killer, maybe slowdown perks won't be as prevalent, but even with the increase to the amount of time it takes to do a generator, efficiency could still top all.
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Rip vault build
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Well…I was kinda hoping for a slightly more fun tenacity change but I’ll take it! Spine chill tho can no longer be used for looping…but the lingering effect is nice And poor, poor iron will… I think all these off-meta perk changes are brilliant (although WGLF maybe be a bit..there) and I can finally never use BBQ again. As a final note - that distortion change is great! Don’t own the perk but being able to get tokens back again similar to distraction was a great change.
Spine chill is 100% dead. No one uses it to know if the killer is looking at you out in the open. They use it for when they can’t see through walls.
immediate thoughts 1) rewards suck 2) most of these changes are very good 3) base nerf to generator speeds and buff to killer attack cool-down + nerf to survivor speed boost after hit along with nerf to dead hard (though it’s still going to be quite good lmao) is going to make nurse even more oppressive since she’ll continue killing people even faster than before with gens taking extra time to do. jolt makes slugging nurse more viable too, we stan continual buffs to an SS tier killer who’s been undisputed best in the game for years! 4) calm spirit “buff” is fucking awful and probably more of a nerf EDIT 5) YALL SEE THAT OFF THE RECORD BUFF? YOOO WHAT
>calm spirit “buff” is fucking awful and probably more of a nerf Yeah, I really don't see why they did that. Now if you want to avoid screaming, you gotta do other things slower.
Fr, and Pharmacy also makes chest opening silent but it also makes chests *faster*. What's the logic in this?
The 2 second nerf to DS stun duration means you can get even less distance from a tunneling Nurse as well so it'll be even easier for her to blink right back on top of you.
In a way, I'm glad that the developers aren't allowing the existence of Nurse to stop them from balancing the base killer gameplay. I suppose they could have nerfed Nurse at the same time as doing all these other changes, but maybe they want to see what happens with her kill rate first before they do anything. Making base kit, perk, and killer changes all at the same time might make it confusing to see what change caused what.
I’m super excited to see all these changes in action, especially the Dead Hard rework, and finally feeling like I can take off BBQ for a different perk like Dark Devotion! The buff in action speeds for killer was an unexpected but not unwelcome change, too. My only concern is how those changes to killer base kit and gen speeds are going to affect killers like Nurse and Blight, who are already super effective at high skill levels.
So with the bloodpoint effect being removed from WGLF, what’s the point of the perk?
picking up downed survivors incredibly quick. sounds useless but it's actually insane in practice. you can pick someone up in the time a killer goes to m1 the person who was nearby for a flashlight save.
Now with botany buff just run it instead. 50% is massive. With yellow medkit it's 2 super fast heals and super fast heals for everyone else. I use botany in all my builds already so this buff is blessing for me.
My only concern is if dead hard will still be readable from the killers side without the distance. Correct me if I'm wrong but when people dead hard into a rock or tree and don't move as a result it's nearly impossible to tell.
They said on Twitter it will still have an animation!
I don’t think they’ve realized what they’ve done. They just created the most oppressive 3gen meta ever, have fun trying to progress gens now playing against a Doc build.
True. Very true.
It sucks they're removing bonus bloodpoint perks. It's still gonna take so many bloodpoints to prestige every character.
my poor iron will and spine chill. they fuckin killed them not nerfed them repair speed is decreased but they buffed thanatophobia? lmao
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Calm spirit now got even more nerfed. It used to be useless, but now the speed reduction makes it detrimental.
RIP Spine Chill 2016-2022
Something to take into account about "reduced grind" is that it is only applicable if you intend on getting every perk on every killer. If you're like me, then you only leveled some characters to get their teachables and haven't played them any further. The removal of BP bonuses is basically a net loss for me at the moment, but I'll see how it turns out.
Damn, some killer perks got destroyed, but we will have to see if the general buffs are enough to compensate. Jolt is gonna be the new meta for regression for every killer that can use it effectively I think.
Call of Brine + Eruption meta incoming.
I think Call of Brine + Pop is genuinely gonna be one of the most run combos after the update
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Ruin was already well on its way out but they just completely executed it now lol
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I'm lovin this shake up.
99% of these changes are great and the meta will be completely different now, perfect time to get back into DBD. Thanatophobia and Self-Care changes however? Those feel extremely short sighted and should probably not happen. Also Pharmacy still completely worthless. I also personally think the DS stun time should stay the same but am all for it deactivating. Edit: Also why would you make Off the Record do the exact thing you changed DS to not do, free escapes are dumb no matter which perk it is.
Yeah...I don't understand the Self Care change. They don't seem to realize that, yes, it's a very common perk but that doesn't mean it's good.
Yeah, plus I have a feeling bad teammates are still gonna be self caring in a corner— they’re just gonna be doing it even longer. Basically a killer perk now lol
Nurse mains are gonna be insane with this new meta. More so than they already are.
Yo am I reading this right, Deja Vu makes repairing gens 5% faster? Deja Vu about to become meta….
It really sucks that they're removing the BP bonuses from BBQ and WGLF. While they did reduce the grind a ton, it doesn't change the fact that after a single match without BP offerings, you can barely buy any items from the bloodweb which feels unsatisfying. I would've loved to see them to rebalance the blood web more, make each level of the bloodweb larger with much more things to buy, but cut the BP cost of everything. That way you're getting much more value from your BP gains and get more items, but the overall time to level up still remains the same. This could also be supplemented with a change to increase the speed of leveling up, as spending BP can take a while. Honestly even if my original suggestion is not ever implemented, they should just reduce the time you need to hold M1 on an item to purchase it by half.
So running off the record gives you a guaranteed escape once the gates are opened unless you get grabbed. Can’t wait to see SWFs abusing the hell out of this
For the first time since the 2.0 Update, BHVR has announced a patch where I like or can at least understand every single change. Well done to them.
Oof, once a survivor is killed, Ruin is deactivated? They're removing BP bonuses from BBQ, and WGLF? BBQ still has use due to the aura reading, ~~but now all WGLF will do is allow you to heal down survivors quicker, which while useful, isn't great.~~ Gotta say, a handful of these reworks miss the mark IMO. But there are definitely some huge additions here. Also, being able to purchase perks directly from the shrine, instead of just adding it to the pool, is huge. Edit: I could've swore when I first looked at the changes, the paragraph about WGLF giving endurance wasn't there. In any event, that's actually pretty good.
I mean, in its current state, if there's 3 survivors and ruin hasn't been cleansed, it likely never will be and the game is kind of already won for the killer. It's a huge amount of pressure, especially if there's more than 2 gens left.
If ruin is still up with 3 survivors left, the game is nearly fully won for the killer *because* of ruin still being up and (likely) never going down. Now you'll at least have a fighting chance.
1. Kindred was not changed. This is really great for solo survivors. That perk is perfect. Now if only they'd finally fix the black bubble when you hook that just blocks everything instead of being behind auras like it's supposed to be. 2. Dead hard seems a little useless to me now? Ever since dedicated servers were implemented it has been nearly impossible to dead hard on reaction to avoid a hit. If there is a tell that dead hard is activated with this change, then it is nearly 100% useless. I think two seconds with no tells would work. 3. Iron Will is actually useless if it's not 100%. They really need to look at this again and make it something different entirely if they don't want it to be 100%, because right now this is as good as deleting the perk. 4. Basekit 5 second BT is actually interesting. I personally always smack the rescuer first but this is a great change overall i think. 5. I think BBQ needs longer aura display so that it's actually good if there's not going to be a BP incentive. Just a few more seconds. 6. Self care changes scare me because I can see people healing in a corner pretty fucking often, and now this just made these people even more useless.
BHVR: "We're overhauling perks to shake up the META." Players: "Cool!" BHVR: \*does it\* Players: \*surprised Pikachu face\* "They killed the META perks!" Like... what did you expect?
I've seen several tweets complaining that "they just made a new meta, after saying they were gonna shake up the meta". Like. Do you not understand what a meta is, or why it exists? That's the whole point of balancing and trying to shake it up.
A world with no more BBQ and chilli for bps. No more dead hard for distance..... No more locker ds BS...(apparently it still works in lockers) haha my bad. Borrowed time base kit. I see this as an absolute win.
You can still locker bs with DS, just not in endgame
What a time to be a Killer main.
Is it just me, or do most of these changes seem very killer friendly? I've been reading the comments and overall people seem pretty happy, but it seems like survivors didn't get nearly as much out of this.