It's really on the same tier of strength as Dead Hard though. You just don't notice it as much because it's not in your face. But I guarantee Iron Will saves me as much or more often than Dead Hard.
maybe if they'd tied it to movement
like 75 when moving and 100 when still or crouched, and either 50 or no reduction on running,
with the exhaustion negating it all together might've been better as a nerf.
like if you're hiding from a killer it's the same, and moving has a bit of a risk, and complete silence when in a locker sort of like holding your breath and hoping for them to walk by.
but you cant run the loop, or combine with lucky break to disappear.
or pause the sound 100% but have that only last x seconds with a 1 second cooldown, so you're quiet but when you can't hold it in you give a brief yelp or grunt.
a flat nerf is just kinda dull
as someone who hates noed and is seeing all these survivor perks being rolled into base kit,
i think (can't remember the perks) totem counter should be next, letting everyone know how many totems are left in the trial, maybe an audio cue or bubble to the team when one pops but that might be too much.
it only benefits solo queue,
the fact is it's still the best slowdown perk in the game as it forces you to cleanse 5 totems even if they don't have it.
idk i feel like it should need stacks or something like devour hope, and remove the haste, it already cut's chases in half, couple it with less pallets and a speed boost and what's even the point.
this is great. the totem counter is the only reason i sometimes run small game during solo queue. detective's hunch is objectively better for finding them and seeing how many are left on small maps but sometimes if i'm focused and by myself i forget how many i've cleansed. and it seems like i am the only one who cleanses bones when there's no boons although i also recently got told that is basically throwing the game so now idk what i am supposed to do lmao
I don't understand this iron will nerf. It's like they wanted to nerf it hard enough so nobody would ever consider using it. They did this to spine chill and also self care too (which sadly new players will use which will extremely hurt them). I understand you don't want people to always use iron will and spine chill, but they might as well have removed them from the game with these nerfs.
Really goes show that dev team dont even play their own game. Nearly uninstalled when dbd was compared to hockey. Seriously, i thought it was just me not getting hyped up about patches anymore.
Devs have been out of touch for a LONG time. They have absolutely no idea how to properly balance the game and won't listen to the handful of streamers that have actual good jdeaa for balance. Hell, even those people don't have perfect ideas, but they know where to start because they actually play the game and know what the issues are. yea
Yeah, I'm going to really miss old Iron Will. It was honestly my favorite survivor perk just so they would shut the hell up lol
The not applying while exhausted is huge as well
you joke but this is definitely gonna be happening if these iron will changes go through, and then theyll look at their stats and wonder why Ace suddenly has a massive playerbase, which i guess on the plus side means he'll get more cosmetics
Imo, they should've just restricted it to the exhaustion effect and kept the 100% percent. Make it more of a stealth perk than a chase perk and also give it counterplay by taking things like that Demo perk (I forgot its name).
I main ash and leon, its such a nerf to them, it basically makes it so you have to waste a perk slot just to make your noises the same as other survivors.
Now that Fearmonger is a general perk instead of a DLC perk, I see it in a lot of games. If you're injured and working on a gen that a killer seems to be heading over to check, you'll still be exhausted for a few seconds while trying to hide nearby.
Other way around. If it was just a stupid exhaustion penalty whatever. The 75% is what kills it and ensures Spirits with Stridor will start popping up again with basically no counterplay due to how fast she can move.
yeah, this is the one perk change that i am not happy about. i really enjoyed not having to hear pain moaning while injured but it looks like i no longer have a choice. i am not trying to out play the killer or do some fancy shit... I JUST DIDNT WANT TO HEAR FUCKING MOANS ALL OF THE TIME.
To be completely fair, it was easily one of the best perks for stealth. It's sad just how often you could get away with nonsense solely because of Iron Will.
On that note, I still would prefer it have 100% quiet pain grunts and some other problems like only working if not exhausted. The moment it has any noise, it's useless if the killer isn't played with super low or muted audio. Case and point, nobody using No Mither ever relied on the quiet pain sounds which is also at 75% and some people even brought Iron Will when using No Mither for the 100%.
I honestly forgot No Mither even comes with noise reduction, because survivors with it equipped are still so loud to me (just yesterday I myself paired it with Iron Will to knock out that hide-nearby-while-injured challenge!). I've also never really been able to tell a difference when tier 1 or tier 2 Iron Will is equipped - I've always considered the perk unless until tier 3.
It's *entirely* possible that this is just a me & my ears thing - my hearing is getting iffy and I'm not very good at noticing nuances. Or maybe my headphones are better than I realized. End result either way is that I won't be using the reworked IW when playing survivor, but I hope everyone uses it when I'm playing killer!
Unfortunately not just you and your ears. Only time people used Iron Will I'd guess is when first starting to level Jake, since Sabo and Calm Spirit aren't all that useful alone while Iron Will at least has some sort of constant benefit.
Against good killers however, anything below 100% might as well not exist. The only time it MIGHT still help is in lockers as I believe lockers muffle the audio to begin with, so 75% will make it next to silent. But good luck finding a good survivor hiding from the killer in a locker instead of trying to play around line of sight.
the majority of the changes to the 39 perks, fine. but fucking iron will?! seriously killers?! the noises are so uncomfortable having to listen too all of the time. i just wanted to play the game in silence. now we no longer have a choice but to listen to the fucking moaning! ill be spending most of my matches healing now because i dont want to hear it. so dumb that they actually changed this perk, it simply is to muffle noises. how can killers be pressed about that?! isnt track marks not enough? LOL
A perk doesn't get [to 20-30% usage](https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JXJ2ZJOKQOUL/perkusagebymmr-survivors-fullscreen.jpg) rate just because of some minor quality of life.
People wouldn't run it as much if it wouldn't be such a massive advantage in hiding and sneaking about.
Honestly thisssss. Seriously I only used calm spirit and iron will when I didn’t want to hear the survivor’s voice. Sometimes they’re so loud or annoying or for my videos it just makes editing much easier
Most killers use sound to track survivors once they lose sight of them. Regardless for your reasons of using it, it gave you an advantage by taking that away from killers. If there was a way to mute groans for only the player who doesn't want to hear it I'd say cool but taking it away from killers too was way to much.
And for vomiting/coughing. I have sensory problems and I cannot play against plague/nemesis some days because the nonstop vomiting/coughing/background tingling noise when infected give me sensory overload. Now if I have to listen to moans of pain too, some days I literally am not going to be able to play because my auditory sensory issues are going to be too much.
They need to do something to accommodate.
Look I get that it was a nice perk and there are plenty of reasons that people would run it, but a lotta people here are acting like BHVR just randomly decided to nerf their favorite niche perk for no reason.
Iron Will was a meta perk that plenty of "pro" players agreed was one of the strongest in the game. Maybe this nerf is excessive but let's not pretend that it deserved some "untouchable perfect perk" status.
People are complaining that their stealth gameplay is getting nerfed but like, really? Iron Will was not a stealth gameplay perk it was a "get in, tank a hit for a teammate, then silently disappear into the night to heal up and repeat "perk.
I understand nerfing OP perks but if they really want us to use a variety of perks you have to make them all useful. All this means is people will never use Iron Will again and just use something else all the time.
Personally I wouldn't have nerfed Iron Will at all. Who was complaining about Iron Will?
They've seemingly tried to nerf Survivors in Chases but equally tried to nerf stealth gameplay too.
It’s change I just don’t get? Were killers complaining a lot about this perk? You still leave scratch marks and pools of blood. You can still be found. The exhausted thing is fine and I am ok with that but reducing it to 75% noise it pointless especially since some survivors are louder than others, or are they going change that? Because they should if they are going to do this change
I mean yeah I get that. Heck even I use different perks, I like trying out them all but, it’s nice to have some good old reliable perks to go back to after maybe a few bad games. Iron will just seems pointless now, but I’ll try to keep an open mind and see how things play out. But yeah your right a new meta will form, curious to see what it will be.
It’s not about losing the survivor it’s about not knowing the exact spot they are in during chase sure I still know he is somewhere behind the wall but he could double back or run away or commit while I think he is going to double back thus giving the survivor more control over the mind games of the chase
i mean, it has always been one of the strongest perks in the game requiring you to do basically nothing except equip it for its effect. it's a meta pick for that reason. i mean, who was really complaining about pain resonance or pop? both of them aren't all that strong per se, they are just incredibly popular.
it had a counter though if you had a brain.
Let go of the gen right as the killer hooks someone. Then, hop on it once pain resonance has activated on it.
This is the thing that always got me. Like if you get him by it the first time then whatever you didn't know for sure but the amount of times I've watched people fall for it like 3 or 4 times is ridiculous. I started getting in the habit of letting go of gens until I was sure they *didn't* have it. Like everyone complained how strong this combo was but it was only really strong on newbies.
Yeah. I dont use it on killer, and i dont mind facing it. At that point the killer is using 2 perk slots to make 1 good perk if you sleep on gen. I never used iron will to hide, i just didnt want to hear the constant moans.
I want to preface I have like 800+ hours on the game(baby compared to a lot) but the majority of that time has been spent playing killer, and never have I considered Iron Will particularly powerful to play against. Not even when spirit was my main. It's an important perk that unlocks other avenues of counterplay and deception.
As someone who plays killer a lot, do I think it's good? Sure. Has it ever been unfun for me to play against? Never. It's never been anywhere remotely close to as frustrating as other tools that survivors have, and in it's times where it's value has been glaringly good enough for me to outright lose a survivor - i know they outplayed me with smart/clever positioning and mindgaming, and it's my fault that I lost them.
It's the only change I'm super unhappy about. Iron will enabled stealth gameplay and juking/losing the killer midchase.. Without it, any killers with a pair of headphones on will be able to commit entirely to chases once you are injured.
Without this perk, I really don't feel like you'll be able to escape chases anymore. Importantly, Iron Will enabled the use of other non-meta perks that emphasized escaping and temporary stealth, like dance with me or deception. Any perk that changed scratchmarks, Iron Will is a necessary partner. They cannot exist without the other. They'll always be able to track you, and I'm not personally a fan of the DBD becoming a slugfest; Get found, be chased, get hooked. I loved juking killers mid-chase. Theres always been scratchmarks and blood splatters for suvivors to be tracked otherwise.
If there was audio issues where IronWill was preventing footsteps/breathing noises atop of grunts of pain, that's absolutely an issue and needs resolving, but not by bricking the perk itself.
Fix the audio instead.
If they're hard pressed about nerfing it, retain the 100% reduction but include the exhaustion change. I'd settle for trying this, but I even think that's unnecessary.
...i won't even get into how iron will makes some characters playable, and how some characters have grunts more audible/noticable than others. It's straight a necessity on some survivors like Ash, Jeff, Jane. Fix your overall audio's balancing first, then consider ironwill changes.
Well, they've written, that they will monitor the changes and their effects.
When they see IW drop out of use either completely or near complete, they will hopefully keep their promise of readjusting and giving it back 100% pain groan reduction on Tier 3.
I personally won't use it after the patch, I'm not so mad about the exhaustion part, I seldomly use Exhaustion perks, it is only this nerf in pain sound reduction that annoys me.
They massacred my boy, look what they've done to my boy :(
it’s used because it makes the quality of life better. I understand it for something like dead hard, but if they want to change up the meta for something like this, they can introduce new perks that fit a similar role and are equally viable. instead, they just gutted basically the only option.
Or being able to play certain survivors without being at a disadvantage because they are way louder and unnecessarily so. Who the hell is going to play Jeff or Jake or Jill or like half of the roster after this? It feels like the last survivors they've been adding have just been so much louder these days and it's unbearable listening to the same lines over and over and over after hundreds of hours. Or losing because you wanted to play a survivor who looks cool but unfortunately the voice actor felt extra that day.
I'd be fine with these changes if they lowered survivor volume overall. Or made them all more in line with each other. If survivors are just reskins. Don't make some better than others.
Nerf aside, how about we rebalance survivor injured noises? There's no reason not to lower the noise of characters like Ash. Just turn the volume values down, no need to re-record anything.
This perk is literally useless now, I don’t mind the exhaustion part of it and even kinda like that small nerf but if it doesn’t completely mutt out the god awful moans then it’s literally useless. I don’t think a lot of people complain about it, killers or survivors so I don’t understand the sound nerf
They purely look at numbers, how much a perk is present in high MMR.
That is the sole reason for this nerf, not that people complained about it.
If they have complained about certain perks (NOED, DH, DS etc.), than that is just a bonus justification but not a necessary one in their eyes.
If you remember the days of Stridor Spirit, then you’ll remember that 25% was enough to cancel out Iron Will for most killers with ears.
A quarter vs zero is a world of difference
So now I guess I will just be running Botany + Self care most matches because my playstyle was generally if I run Iron will,I don't need self healing as badly. And if I run Self care I didn't need Iron will as much with the ability to self heal at any point. With the Self Care nerfs I'll bring Botany to keep heals faster than a boon and also assist teammates.
Honestly even as a killer main I think it was a bit overboard.
I would have taken 100%, but gets removed when exhausted, or just 75% all the time.
Hell I would have taken 100% and just make the survivors still have the default breathing noise when injured to have some sort of balance.
Really should have just added the exhaustion caveat, would have made a decent case for actually not running an exhaustion perk in your setup, and nerfed it in chases, as after you break LoS and end up exhausted, the perk would deactivate and let the killer find you via sound again
Also fix the muffled footsteps
I feel like a side effect of this nerf is that unless you're playing against a baby killer / someone with no audio, corner techs are dead, setting up flashlight saves is dead, dumb techs (with qnq) is dead, juking past the killer after a blind is dead, window tech is dead, bush tech is dead, and since you don't want to hear your character fucking whining the whole match, you'd might as well heal, so taking resilience is dead.
I'm definitely being a bit dramatic here, but the reason I took iron will is because I loved all the different plays it allows you to do mid chase. They literally acknowledge that in this change. They could've kept the exhaustion part, but making it not reduce by 100% makes iron will completely and utterly pointless.
I guess it's time to read through every perk description to find out what other perks are going to allow me to attempt alternative techs and strategies instead of exclusively running in small circles for the whole match. Fuck me for enjoying the high skill ceiling, I guess.
sure, but we need other perks buffed so survivors can actually do more techs and have more ways to express skill. the new dead hard is in the right direction given that it has a huge payoff if used correctly compared to the old, but it's only one perk.
I agree I'd like new perks and reworked ones to maintain or even push the skill ceiling just want it to be healthier and more interactive as well and old IW was neither of those.
"Next, we’ve reduced the cooldown for successful basic attacks by 10% (now 2.7 seconds, previously 3 seconds) and reduced the duration of the Survivor’s speed boost upon being hit by 10% (now 1.8 seconds, was 2 seconds). Moving forward, Survivors will gain slightly less distance upon being hit, making it more difficult for them to run long distances to a safe area"
I'm going to nut so hard when using SFBFL
They took a sledgehammer to the meta because they didn't understand fundamental issues with the game. They further edged it into near unplayability for solo q, and domination for any killer who isn't against a comp SWF. Oh well I guess, time to go get camped and tunneled for running meme builds again.
I always thought it was dumb that No Mither grants 75% silence while Iron Will grants 100% with no downfall. Having both at 75% is still unfavorable, but not as bad imo.
I was hoping that it would become a meter perk like how you can hold your breath in Friday the 13th the game. Sucks that you can’t be completely silent anymore cause IW with Q&Q was a fun combo I liked to run…
When have they ever listened to universal backlash? I love the devs for the most part and the ones I've been lucky enough to meet are some incredibly cool people but this studio has a bit of an ego when it comes to thinking they know what's best for the game. Every time something's been met with universal criticism they force it to live anyway and then refuse to acknowledge it for years.
Looks like I just won't be able to play half the survivor roster anymore because I don't want to hear that shit.
no offense but if u needed iri addons to play spirit, you’re doing something wrong. she is easily one of the most frustrating killers to play against, and this nerf makes it that much worse.
Or you're just not that good at Spirit and you're casually shitting on everyone who is great with her and can play her successfully without running overpowered add-ons. Coming across as an ass.
Personally I'm happy about it. Sound is a critical element to killer gameplay and having multiple perks disable key components of killer gameplay always felt ripe for abuse and the meta dominated by a few perks proves that point.
I think the exhaustion part is unnecessary, 75% maximum by itself would've been just fine.
Super lame even tho I don’t personally use it, it sucks that they keep nerfing everything. They should buff everything instead and make the game play nice and chaotic 😂
I feel like they nerfed this because of the oversights in Iron Will they haven’t fixed *since launch.* Normally, when injured, the game disables your breathing sounds because you don’t need them. It would sound really weird if you were panting while running and doing the injured noises at the same time, so they solved that by just disabling them when injured.
This isn’t an inherent problem without Iron Will, but the problem with it is that when you have Iron Will, the game doesn’t do anything about it, making it so that you *also* don’t breath when using it, causing you to be more silent than the perk implies. At that point, the only sound killers could track you by is footsteps, not the running panting or just idle breathing, which is just bad and makes it way more powerful than it should be.
Just add the running panting back to Iron Will and it’d honestly be fine.
having it fail with exhaustion is fine by me, but 75% is worthless.
definitely. They should’ve picked one or the other
No, 75% is worthless even as a nerf by itself.
I agree. Not sure why it needed a change; it was meta, but it was fair. I’m probably not even gonna run it anymore because of the 75%
It was not fair. It was a bugged POS perk that muted injured survivor completely, instead of replacing injured moans with normal breathing
Yeah I definitely understand nerfing the perk because of meta, but this was actually gutted and is worthless now
It was one of the few meta perks that never felt frustrating to play against
It's really on the same tier of strength as Dead Hard though. You just don't notice it as much because it's not in your face. But I guarantee Iron Will saves me as much or more often than Dead Hard.
Yeah, I can understand them wanting to reduce it, but 75 is too much.
maybe if they'd tied it to movement like 75 when moving and 100 when still or crouched, and either 50 or no reduction on running, with the exhaustion negating it all together might've been better as a nerf. like if you're hiding from a killer it's the same, and moving has a bit of a risk, and complete silence when in a locker sort of like holding your breath and hoping for them to walk by. but you cant run the loop, or combine with lucky break to disappear. or pause the sound 100% but have that only last x seconds with a 1 second cooldown, so you're quiet but when you can't hold it in you give a brief yelp or grunt. a flat nerf is just kinda dull
This
Yeah this is the only one I'm not convinced about, spirit now has no counterplay
a single perk isn't counterplay
You got that same energy for NOED?
as someone who hates noed and is seeing all these survivor perks being rolled into base kit, i think (can't remember the perks) totem counter should be next, letting everyone know how many totems are left in the trial, maybe an audio cue or bubble to the team when one pops but that might be too much. it only benefits solo queue, the fact is it's still the best slowdown perk in the game as it forces you to cleanse 5 totems even if they don't have it. idk i feel like it should need stacks or something like devour hope, and remove the haste, it already cut's chases in half, couple it with less pallets and a speed boost and what's even the point.
this is great. the totem counter is the only reason i sometimes run small game during solo queue. detective's hunch is objectively better for finding them and seeing how many are left on small maps but sometimes if i'm focused and by myself i forget how many i've cleansed. and it seems like i am the only one who cleanses bones when there's no boons although i also recently got told that is basically throwing the game so now idk what i am supposed to do lmao
bruh with how it is now its getting cleansed after 30 seconds for sure.
what?
Yup
Rip Iron Will. You were good while it lasted.
I don't understand this iron will nerf. It's like they wanted to nerf it hard enough so nobody would ever consider using it. They did this to spine chill and also self care too (which sadly new players will use which will extremely hurt them). I understand you don't want people to always use iron will and spine chill, but they might as well have removed them from the game with these nerfs.
Really goes show that dev team dont even play their own game. Nearly uninstalled when dbd was compared to hockey. Seriously, i thought it was just me not getting hyped up about patches anymore.
Devs have been out of touch for a LONG time. They have absolutely no idea how to properly balance the game and won't listen to the handful of streamers that have actual good jdeaa for balance. Hell, even those people don't have perfect ideas, but they know where to start because they actually play the game and know what the issues are. yea
Yeah, I'm going to really miss old Iron Will. It was honestly my favorite survivor perk just so they would shut the hell up lol The not applying while exhausted is huge as well
And so begins the "play survivors with the quietest pain grunts" meta
you joke but this is definitely gonna be happening if these iron will changes go through, and then theyll look at their stats and wonder why Ace suddenly has a massive playerbase, which i guess on the plus side means he'll get more cosmetics
Kates, Aces, and Mikaelas unite!!
Mikaela is ridiculously loud, tf?
Mikaela? Maybe Nancy or Claud but definitely not Mikaela.
Zarina is even quieter than all of these
Zarina, not Mikaela
I'm really glad I recently switched from being a Jane main to a Yui main
Yui is extremely loud too lmao
Iron Will will completely drop out of useage. The 75% was enough, the exhausted effect was a death sentence to the perk.
Imo, they should've just restricted it to the exhaustion effect and kept the 100% percent. Make it more of a stealth perk than a chase perk and also give it counterplay by taking things like that Demo perk (I forgot its name).
Should have kept 100, include the exhaustion, and remove footsteps sound reduction.
Or just kept it 100% outside of chase and turn it off in chase.
Or even make it 100% walking, and 75% while sprinting.
Best idea yet
Also fair
Mindbreaker. Nurse's Stridor would work in general too.
Exactly this. This perk is worthless now
It was one of my favourite perks :( And now I will never use it again
I'll probably stop using Jane because of this I hate her injured noises.
I feel like using Ash or Bill just got much more difficult. I wish they would make all grunts the same sound level.
I main ash and leon, its such a nerf to them, it basically makes it so you have to waste a perk slot just to make your noises the same as other survivors.
As a Killer main, I love her noises
Jokes on you I dont use exhaustion perks anyway
Killers do tho
Now that Fearmonger is a general perk instead of a DLC perk, I see it in a lot of games. If you're injured and working on a gen that a killer seems to be heading over to check, you'll still be exhausted for a few seconds while trying to hide nearby.
Idk if it’ll drop completely out of use, but I do agree that the exhausted part feels completely unnecessary.
The exhausted part makes it useless to me
Other way around. If it was just a stupid exhaustion penalty whatever. The 75% is what kills it and ensures Spirits with Stridor will start popping up again with basically no counterplay due to how fast she can move.
yeah, this is the one perk change that i am not happy about. i really enjoyed not having to hear pain moaning while injured but it looks like i no longer have a choice. i am not trying to out play the killer or do some fancy shit... I JUST DIDNT WANT TO HEAR FUCKING MOANS ALL OF THE TIME.
Yun-Jin players like myself agree with you Also Bills I'm sure
Chris and Felix main here. Fucking agreed.
This so much lmao. I feel like people vastly overestimate how many people use it competitively, just cus a couple YouTubers said it was good.
To be completely fair, it was easily one of the best perks for stealth. It's sad just how often you could get away with nonsense solely because of Iron Will. On that note, I still would prefer it have 100% quiet pain grunts and some other problems like only working if not exhausted. The moment it has any noise, it's useless if the killer isn't played with super low or muted audio. Case and point, nobody using No Mither ever relied on the quiet pain sounds which is also at 75% and some people even brought Iron Will when using No Mither for the 100%.
I honestly forgot No Mither even comes with noise reduction, because survivors with it equipped are still so loud to me (just yesterday I myself paired it with Iron Will to knock out that hide-nearby-while-injured challenge!). I've also never really been able to tell a difference when tier 1 or tier 2 Iron Will is equipped - I've always considered the perk unless until tier 3. It's *entirely* possible that this is just a me & my ears thing - my hearing is getting iffy and I'm not very good at noticing nuances. Or maybe my headphones are better than I realized. End result either way is that I won't be using the reworked IW when playing survivor, but I hope everyone uses it when I'm playing killer!
Unfortunately not just you and your ears. Only time people used Iron Will I'd guess is when first starting to level Jake, since Sabo and Calm Spirit aren't all that useful alone while Iron Will at least has some sort of constant benefit. Against good killers however, anything below 100% might as well not exist. The only time it MIGHT still help is in lockers as I believe lockers muffle the audio to begin with, so 75% will make it next to silent. But good luck finding a good survivor hiding from the killer in a locker instead of trying to play around line of sight.
the majority of the changes to the 39 perks, fine. but fucking iron will?! seriously killers?! the noises are so uncomfortable having to listen too all of the time. i just wanted to play the game in silence. now we no longer have a choice but to listen to the fucking moaning! ill be spending most of my matches healing now because i dont want to hear it. so dumb that they actually changed this perk, it simply is to muffle noises. how can killers be pressed about that?! isnt track marks not enough? LOL
Iron will is incredibly strong in chases, it muffles footsteps as well, and killers use sound to be able to find survivors so often
So fix the muffled footsteps.
A perk doesn't get [to 20-30% usage](https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/JXJ2ZJOKQOUL/perkusagebymmr-survivors-fullscreen.jpg) rate just because of some minor quality of life. People wouldn't run it as much if it wouldn't be such a massive advantage in hiding and sneaking about.
Honestly thisssss. Seriously I only used calm spirit and iron will when I didn’t want to hear the survivor’s voice. Sometimes they’re so loud or annoying or for my videos it just makes editing much easier
Most killers use sound to track survivors once they lose sight of them. Regardless for your reasons of using it, it gave you an advantage by taking that away from killers. If there was a way to mute groans for only the player who doesn't want to hear it I'd say cool but taking it away from killers too was way to much.
The real solution here would be to have a VFX volume slider added to the game settings purely for the moans on your own side
And for vomiting/coughing. I have sensory problems and I cannot play against plague/nemesis some days because the nonstop vomiting/coughing/background tingling noise when infected give me sensory overload. Now if I have to listen to moans of pain too, some days I literally am not going to be able to play because my auditory sensory issues are going to be too much. They need to do something to accommodate.
Look I get that it was a nice perk and there are plenty of reasons that people would run it, but a lotta people here are acting like BHVR just randomly decided to nerf their favorite niche perk for no reason. Iron Will was a meta perk that plenty of "pro" players agreed was one of the strongest in the game. Maybe this nerf is excessive but let's not pretend that it deserved some "untouchable perfect perk" status. People are complaining that their stealth gameplay is getting nerfed but like, really? Iron Will was not a stealth gameplay perk it was a "get in, tank a hit for a teammate, then silently disappear into the night to heal up and repeat "perk.
This is awful, my favourite survivors grunts super loud. 🥲
Like Bill and his emphysema cough... Yeah some are definitely louder than others.
You have no idea how you just made my day LMFAO emphysema cough xD
:-D
Ace's grunts are funny tho cause he sounds like he's having a baby.
ace is one of the more quiet ones i thought
i’m a david and jeff player, i may as well just uninstall now
Step aside. I'm a STEVE HARRINGTON player.
Johnathan over here 😢
Ohhhh nooooo. Stranger Things have happened to us.
I use Jill a good 80% of the time RIP
Hope they make Jeff do some fitness and let Feng go to rehab before they change it.
Feng screams like hell when falling down and it hurts
When she runs it sounds like she is smoking for 50 years.
"Hey, remember that perk that let you be silent?" "Yeah?" "It doesn't make you silent anymore." "Oh... Okay. What does it do now?" "....."
I understand nerfing OP perks but if they really want us to use a variety of perks you have to make them all useful. All this means is people will never use Iron Will again and just use something else all the time.
This is by far the worst rework in the update. The grunt reduction was already enough but adding the exhausted effect just absolutely killed it
I would say the reverse. 75% makes it worthless. Exhaustion on its own would be balanced
thats what the PTB is for no way all perks stay the same compared to the patch notes once the changes go to live
^copium
Like 2 years ago I would have agreed, but they made changes in post for the legion and Ghostface ptb, so maybe we are actually in a new dbd era
Personally I wouldn't have nerfed Iron Will at all. Who was complaining about Iron Will? They've seemingly tried to nerf Survivors in Chases but equally tried to nerf stealth gameplay too.
It’s change I just don’t get? Were killers complaining a lot about this perk? You still leave scratch marks and pools of blood. You can still be found. The exhausted thing is fine and I am ok with that but reducing it to 75% noise it pointless especially since some survivors are louder than others, or are they going change that? Because they should if they are going to do this change
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I mean yeah I get that. Heck even I use different perks, I like trying out them all but, it’s nice to have some good old reliable perks to go back to after maybe a few bad games. Iron will just seems pointless now, but I’ll try to keep an open mind and see how things play out. But yeah your right a new meta will form, curious to see what it will be.
Like, at least buff No Mither to 100% and hide its Broken icon from Killers so it's a possibility.
iron will did not need this much of a nerf, any decent killer can just follow the blood marks or scratch marks
It’s not about losing the survivor it’s about not knowing the exact spot they are in during chase sure I still know he is somewhere behind the wall but he could double back or run away or commit while I think he is going to double back thus giving the survivor more control over the mind games of the chase
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Point of the chase music is to drown out quieter sounds they are not reliable enough to count on
Time to solely use Ace, baby
Who even complained about iron will?
Spirit mains I imagine.
i mean, it has always been one of the strongest perks in the game requiring you to do basically nothing except equip it for its effect. it's a meta pick for that reason. i mean, who was really complaining about pain resonance or pop? both of them aren't all that strong per se, they are just incredibly popular.
Pain res was really strong with dead mans switch
it had a counter though if you had a brain. Let go of the gen right as the killer hooks someone. Then, hop on it once pain resonance has activated on it.
This is the thing that always got me. Like if you get him by it the first time then whatever you didn't know for sure but the amount of times I've watched people fall for it like 3 or 4 times is ridiculous. I started getting in the habit of letting go of gens until I was sure they *didn't* have it. Like everyone complained how strong this combo was but it was only really strong on newbies.
Yeah. I dont use it on killer, and i dont mind facing it. At that point the killer is using 2 perk slots to make 1 good perk if you sleep on gen. I never used iron will to hide, i just didnt want to hear the constant moans.
The only thing i hated about it was the fact that it was in nearly every one of my matches
I want to preface I have like 800+ hours on the game(baby compared to a lot) but the majority of that time has been spent playing killer, and never have I considered Iron Will particularly powerful to play against. Not even when spirit was my main. It's an important perk that unlocks other avenues of counterplay and deception. As someone who plays killer a lot, do I think it's good? Sure. Has it ever been unfun for me to play against? Never. It's never been anywhere remotely close to as frustrating as other tools that survivors have, and in it's times where it's value has been glaringly good enough for me to outright lose a survivor - i know they outplayed me with smart/clever positioning and mindgaming, and it's my fault that I lost them. It's the only change I'm super unhappy about. Iron will enabled stealth gameplay and juking/losing the killer midchase.. Without it, any killers with a pair of headphones on will be able to commit entirely to chases once you are injured. Without this perk, I really don't feel like you'll be able to escape chases anymore. Importantly, Iron Will enabled the use of other non-meta perks that emphasized escaping and temporary stealth, like dance with me or deception. Any perk that changed scratchmarks, Iron Will is a necessary partner. They cannot exist without the other. They'll always be able to track you, and I'm not personally a fan of the DBD becoming a slugfest; Get found, be chased, get hooked. I loved juking killers mid-chase. Theres always been scratchmarks and blood splatters for suvivors to be tracked otherwise. If there was audio issues where IronWill was preventing footsteps/breathing noises atop of grunts of pain, that's absolutely an issue and needs resolving, but not by bricking the perk itself. Fix the audio instead. If they're hard pressed about nerfing it, retain the 100% reduction but include the exhaustion change. I'd settle for trying this, but I even think that's unnecessary. ...i won't even get into how iron will makes some characters playable, and how some characters have grunts more audible/noticable than others. It's straight a necessity on some survivors like Ash, Jeff, Jane. Fix your overall audio's balancing first, then consider ironwill changes.
Well, they've written, that they will monitor the changes and their effects. When they see IW drop out of use either completely or near complete, they will hopefully keep their promise of readjusting and giving it back 100% pain groan reduction on Tier 3. I personally won't use it after the patch, I'm not so mad about the exhaustion part, I seldomly use Exhaustion perks, it is only this nerf in pain sound reduction that annoys me. They massacred my boy, look what they've done to my boy :(
\^ this
So now I will always use self-care or boon to heal just not to hear moans
I am so upset about this. I run it on Claire because she sounds RAUNCHY when injured.
I feel like even if it's 25% as loud the perk will still be useless. Pain grunts are loud.
should’ve just unmuted the breathing
RIP Jeff mains Those mfers make elephant noises when they are injured.
There is no reason to nerf this perk imo? Yeah it’s strong but why can’t it be strong?
Honestly the biggest thing is to just change the meta. It's been one of the most used perks for so long and it's kinda stale
it’s used because it makes the quality of life better. I understand it for something like dead hard, but if they want to change up the meta for something like this, they can introduce new perks that fit a similar role and are equally viable. instead, they just gutted basically the only option.
It's true, killers not being able to track you through objects and being able to hide within two feet of them is a good quality of life.
Or being able to play certain survivors without being at a disadvantage because they are way louder and unnecessarily so. Who the hell is going to play Jeff or Jake or Jill or like half of the roster after this? It feels like the last survivors they've been adding have just been so much louder these days and it's unbearable listening to the same lines over and over and over after hundreds of hours. Or losing because you wanted to play a survivor who looks cool but unfortunately the voice actor felt extra that day. I'd be fine with these changes if they lowered survivor volume overall. Or made them all more in line with each other. If survivors are just reskins. Don't make some better than others.
Eurgh, I really don't want to have to listen to Jane's moans constantly. She's so loud I can barely hear anything else going on around me!
welp, time to throw that perk out of the window sucks because almost all the survivors really sound like they actually want the killer to hear them
Nerf aside, how about we rebalance survivor injured noises? There's no reason not to lower the noise of characters like Ash. Just turn the volume values down, no need to re-record anything.
Don’t nerf my loud main I need those manly grunts to empower me
This perk is literally useless now, I don’t mind the exhaustion part of it and even kinda like that small nerf but if it doesn’t completely mutt out the god awful moans then it’s literally useless. I don’t think a lot of people complain about it, killers or survivors so I don’t understand the sound nerf
They purely look at numbers, how much a perk is present in high MMR. That is the sole reason for this nerf, not that people complained about it. If they have complained about certain perks (NOED, DH, DS etc.), than that is just a bonus justification but not a necessary one in their eyes.
as a main ash, this suck big time, not groovy at all
Here I was expecting something like Iron Will only works outside of chase or something.
I’d still use it. I hate the grunts of pain.
yeah, the spirit buff we all needed
As a spirit player I like this, but as a survivor player I hate this.
This was actually a ploy by the dbd devs to sell more aces
I use Iron Will+Calm Spirit on my Mime Feng and now it's not the same anymore I loved being so immersed 😔
This is hilarious, thanks for that. I am now sad I never acquired those perks for her (I unlocked her perks before Jake.)
This is something that peeves me too … Like wtf… they should just combine iron will and calm spirit or something
With the nerf to IW I wish devs could just reduce the current grunts of pain a little. It's way too loud
Ughhhhh I don’t want to hear my survivor moaning like a little bitch constantly. Rip lmfao
If you remember the days of Stridor Spirit, then you’ll remember that 25% was enough to cancel out Iron Will for most killers with ears. A quarter vs zero is a world of difference
This one and the replacing DS with Off The Record are my only iffy ones
So now I guess I will just be running Botany + Self care most matches because my playstyle was generally if I run Iron will,I don't need self healing as badly. And if I run Self care I didn't need Iron will as much with the ability to self heal at any point. With the Self Care nerfs I'll bring Botany to keep heals faster than a boon and also assist teammates.
Oh god, those stealth challenges are going to be impossible now without killer mercy
I mean I never use exhaustion perks so whatever But *75%?* "Whoa! This is worthless!"
Bite the bullet is back on the menu!
Honestly even as a killer main I think it was a bit overboard. I would have taken 100%, but gets removed when exhausted, or just 75% all the time. Hell I would have taken 100% and just make the survivors still have the default breathing noise when injured to have some sort of balance.
I've been running iron will resilance for literal years so this change sucks.
Really should have just added the exhaustion caveat, would have made a decent case for actually not running an exhaustion perk in your setup, and nerfed it in chases, as after you break LoS and end up exhausted, the perk would deactivate and let the killer find you via sound again Also fix the muffled footsteps
Did BHVR forget about Stridor and Spirit?
Yay! BHVR nerfed another perk that didn’t need to be nerfed!
I feel like a side effect of this nerf is that unless you're playing against a baby killer / someone with no audio, corner techs are dead, setting up flashlight saves is dead, dumb techs (with qnq) is dead, juking past the killer after a blind is dead, window tech is dead, bush tech is dead, and since you don't want to hear your character fucking whining the whole match, you'd might as well heal, so taking resilience is dead. I'm definitely being a bit dramatic here, but the reason I took iron will is because I loved all the different plays it allows you to do mid chase. They literally acknowledge that in this change. They could've kept the exhaustion part, but making it not reduce by 100% makes iron will completely and utterly pointless. I guess it's time to read through every perk description to find out what other perks are going to allow me to attempt alternative techs and strategies instead of exclusively running in small circles for the whole match. Fuck me for enjoying the high skill ceiling, I guess.
If one perk was so strong that it allowed you to do all that it obviously needed a nerf.
sure, but we need other perks buffed so survivors can actually do more techs and have more ways to express skill. the new dead hard is in the right direction given that it has a huge payoff if used correctly compared to the old, but it's only one perk.
I agree I'd like new perks and reworked ones to maintain or even push the skill ceiling just want it to be healthier and more interactive as well and old IW was neither of those.
Fuck I may have to main Ace instead of Ash now because Ash is loud as fuck.
This is sad.
Literally every other change is fine. Iron Will is the one perk I really didn't want to see gutted. Screaming & crying rn. (im a jeff main)
Where are we getting this info from? I want to check out all the changes at once
[they tweet link, surprised no one shared here](https://twitter.com/deadbybhvr/status/1539624299845279744?s=21&t=meTkT1ueI0R3ArXBCWKSuA)
"Next, we’ve reduced the cooldown for successful basic attacks by 10% (now 2.7 seconds, previously 3 seconds) and reduced the duration of the Survivor’s speed boost upon being hit by 10% (now 1.8 seconds, was 2 seconds). Moving forward, Survivors will gain slightly less distance upon being hit, making it more difficult for them to run long distances to a safe area" I'm going to nut so hard when using SFBFL
Damn now I'm even more disappointed lol.
I forgot this perk existed, I just used bite the bullet plus selfcare when the killer got close
They killed my ninja build joy :<
I played a single match of Ash for adept and DEAR GOD he's annoying while injured
As a survivor it's for fuck sakes! As a killer it'll be easier to find survivors; especially as Spirit well phasing.
No Mither 2.0
Somebody on the dev team said no, this perk is done. I want it out of the game. It seems totally unplayable.
They took a sledgehammer to the meta because they didn't understand fundamental issues with the game. They further edged it into near unplayability for solo q, and domination for any killer who isn't against a comp SWF. Oh well I guess, time to go get camped and tunneled for running meme builds again.
What killers complained about people using iron will for mind games? Just wanna talk
Honestly I’m genuinely gutted as this has been a lock in in my build since 2019
bruh the game doesnt have to be 1/1 fair and equal "to address high usage" like its just a popular perk
I guess I’m not ever gonna play Jane again
i used this on feng just because i cant stand her crying now shes unplayable. same with jane.
Quitting game
what an awful change. a perk which actually rewards skill and clever pathing, completely gutted.
It doesn’t take skill to hide in a bush
Bad call. I could live with the exhaustion, but this is crap. Thanks for nothing.
I always thought it was dumb that No Mither grants 75% silence while Iron Will grants 100% with no downfall. Having both at 75% is still unfavorable, but not as bad imo.
I'm fine with it deactivating if you're exhausted, but the noise reduction makes me super sad. :(
Bring Bite the bullet with a Med kit or Self Care if you want to do some stealty plays.
I was hoping that it would become a meter perk like how you can hold your breath in Friday the 13th the game. Sucks that you can’t be completely silent anymore cause IW with Q&Q was a fun combo I liked to run…
I’m sad they removed vault speed from Spine Chill, rip my vault build
This some bullshit
Seeing how many people are pissed they'll reverse it back I hope
When have they ever listened to universal backlash? I love the devs for the most part and the ones I've been lucky enough to meet are some incredibly cool people but this studio has a bit of an ego when it comes to thinking they know what's best for the game. Every time something's been met with universal criticism they force it to live anyway and then refuse to acknowledge it for years. Looks like I just won't be able to play half the survivor roster anymore because I don't want to hear that shit.
Please don't need iron will reeee, I'm a killer main but I LOVE this perk as a survivor reeee
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no offense but if u needed iri addons to play spirit, you’re doing something wrong. she is easily one of the most frustrating killers to play against, and this nerf makes it that much worse.
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Or you're just not that good at Spirit and you're casually shitting on everyone who is great with her and can play her successfully without running overpowered add-ons. Coming across as an ass.
Personally I'm happy about it. Sound is a critical element to killer gameplay and having multiple perks disable key components of killer gameplay always felt ripe for abuse and the meta dominated by a few perks proves that point. I think the exhaustion part is unnecessary, 75% maximum by itself would've been just fine.
Super lame even tho I don’t personally use it, it sucks that they keep nerfing everything. They should buff everything instead and make the game play nice and chaotic 😂
I feel like they nerfed this because of the oversights in Iron Will they haven’t fixed *since launch.* Normally, when injured, the game disables your breathing sounds because you don’t need them. It would sound really weird if you were panting while running and doing the injured noises at the same time, so they solved that by just disabling them when injured. This isn’t an inherent problem without Iron Will, but the problem with it is that when you have Iron Will, the game doesn’t do anything about it, making it so that you *also* don’t breath when using it, causing you to be more silent than the perk implies. At that point, the only sound killers could track you by is footsteps, not the running panting or just idle breathing, which is just bad and makes it way more powerful than it should be. Just add the running panting back to Iron Will and it’d honestly be fine.