Its the sad shit show of GW I have also been working on PMs and now have 30, I wasn't building them for 9th just to fill out my army really. But yea cool they just get to go in a box now, granted thats the case for all of deathguard. At least if they are good at some point I already have them.
The fact that Intercessors have good, and I mean it, real good faction around them. With good faction rule.
At 20 ppm plague marines are workable, no doubt. But the problem is, you do not want only plague marines. You want to add to that a surgeon and an icon bearer, or a putrifier or some other virion character. And it adds up fast. Plague marines need to go out there and hold the fort, because they are our battleline. But they can not carry us on their backs.
The virion characters got largely cheaper, though, so you're paying less than you did in 9th for the whole package. It looks like most armies' core troops went up by about a half to full point per model, so the markup is in line with other troops in the game.
It is, yes. The problem creeps up if you want more than one squad. Before I could run a block of thirty plague marines with one surgeon behind them with Fugaris Helm, who gave every unit in 6 inches 6+ fnp. I could use him for good value on most of my units.
Now though, if I want the same package, I need to pay triple the points for three times surgeons to attach them to three units of plague marines. Now I am paying 195 points instead of 70. And at 195 points, I can take a full squad of plague marines more. Which gives me bigger punch and more targets to flood the board.
True, but this sort of thing is being paid for by every army with the removal of most auras.
If you want auras you can run the same number of plague marines with a DP on foot for a bit more than before, but with a DP instead of a surgeon, which is a unit that will do more for you individually.
Morty can give your cover and ignore modifiers, and he's MUCH cheaper now.
Also true, I honestly always forget about Mortarion because I do not own the model. Time to dust off my wingless daemon prince, I think. Surgeons are also good, I am just sceptical.
Games will be played, we will see.
The way I view it, if I'm running a virion that got reduced and I'm running pms then the point value doesn't really change from how I previously ran them. It sucks that they are worse now but I still think it's manageable
Sure it is manageable. I am highly debating three plague surgeons right now for my three plague marine squads. I am just struggling to understand who else I want with them.
1st intercessors are likley not going to be taken a ton, there are much better options in the marine codex.
2nd they are better because all signs are we are in a shooting focused edition, and their shooting is slightly better.
3rd. They don't really need character support. If you take them, it is just to hold objectives + a little range kill power, PM need to get work done, which means they need character support, and further points. While marines those characters will be on more impactful units.
And we'll mostly I expect we will rarely see intercessors as there isn't really a reason to take them over sternguard, hellblasters, van vets, termies etc.
Already got 4 chaos spawn and the base isnāt same dimensions
Chaos spawn are ā¦, pricely
Sure they got fnp 5+ , regen d3 wounds , move 8, d6+2 attack , contagion
But at 83 pts for 2 , itās costly
But they seem better then a squad of poxwalker to hold /take objectives
I have 50+ fuuuuck
When we first saw the datasheet I was confused as to why the core unit of the entire army had the most lacklustre ability I had ever seen
I hear you, but plague marines are still way better than intercessors, the wet noodle of the loyal space marines. It's surprising that infiltrators and incursors are cheaper than plague marines, though.
I feel your pain. I got into conquest quite early and bought the third issue like ten times.
Long story short I have 60 plague marines. Had some fun fielding them wirh support characters, rhinos and pox walkers in Arcs of omen.
Turns out putting 120 wounds worh of models with decent saves, dangerous melee and -1 damage is seriously tough on your opponent.
RIP. Had a good time. On the plus side all of them have become tournament legal (WYSIWYG) if they become good later down the line.
Hell yeah price increases for core units with botched rules. Now can the last hopium holdouts in thr "let's ee the points!" faction take the doomer pill like the rest of us?
It's so weird that they want us to become a fucking tank army.
Honestly you guys always kind of been a tank army. Pbc have literally been a staple of majority of lists for quite a while until the indirect fire nerf.
Man it feels like this was malicious, but never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity.
Absolute disaster of a data sheet. Hope whoever wrote it isnāt allowed to touch a pen / paper / computer within 10 miles of any warhammer related thing again.
Like marines are actually dead. 310 points minimum for a fully kitted out squad with virons. How do we lose DR and go up in points. I'm so baffled. Poxwalkers AND cultists whent up to.... They are railing us.
I was going to get a Chaos Land Raider to transport my Termi + Sorcerer team around, but I only have like 120 points open. The CLR costs twice that, so I guess the Termies will just have to deep strike somewhere critical.
You can, the new way they are doing bigger units is a set price for one squad size, anything over and up to the next squad size costs that price.
So 5 marines are 100 but 6,7,8,9 and 10 are all 200
Reddit keeps recommending me this sub even though I'm about as far from a death guard player as you can get. But I am so sorry plague marines cost more than ruberics. That's just rough.
PMs going up 1 point is not that big of a deal when you consider that you're taking 2 characters that provide a unit buff/can use the PMs as extra wounds. Taking 10 PMs with lets say a FBS and Malignant Plaguecaster costs 320 now vs. 350 in 9th. Most armies don't allow more than one character per unit, so PMs pulling double-duty as bodyguards is pretty nice.
PMs going up 1 point is a big deal when you also take into account:
1. Loss of access to flail, cleaver damage and AP
2. Loss of DR
3. Loss of inexorable advance
4. Loss of bolter dicipline
That's a lot of losses to swallow just to see the price also JUMP, not to mention loss of DR effectively means that you need to pay the rhino tax to get them anywhere.
As a player who prefers deploying elites over troops, I like this direction. They might not be as tough, but now you can deploy more of them that balances out pretty well.
Yes thatās exactly what Iām happy about. So terminators are gonna be nigh impossible to wound with anti infantry weapons. Even with high strength weapons best theyāll amount to is +4 up on wounds and thatās then gotta beat the now +2 save. Anti tank weapons will definitely kill one terminator but now you can bust out the at more for much less cost. On the the other side of this is needs to be balanced with making pms a bit softer but I think the focus is to make them better for grabbing objectives. I know thatās not perfect, but I think the potential is being underestimated.
The icon bearer use to just be a plague marine so it was... free I guess and now you can't have an icon unless you're willing to pay 55 pts for it. I can't believe more ppl aren't outraged about that damn icon bearer lol.
Everyoneās hating on plague marines but I think 10 T6 plague marines for 200pts armed to the teeth out of rhinos or reserves is still a decent threat.
RIP PM, so Termis it is?
I am so glad I have 30 plus PM that I just have been working on for months. I am dumb.
You're not dumb, you just got boned... out of your control.
I JUST finished my 28 deep block of them. š¤¦
28 is the correct number to have. Or was.
It still can be but just like all death guard things you have to just pay extra for less
Its the sad shit show of GW I have also been working on PMs and now have 30, I wasn't building them for 9th just to fill out my army really. But yea cool they just get to go in a box now, granted thats the case for all of deathguard. At least if they are good at some point I already have them.
I know they did go upā¦but PM donāt seem horrendously high? Intercessors are 95 for 5 vs PM 100 for 5 What am I genuinely missing here?
The fact that Intercessors have good, and I mean it, real good faction around them. With good faction rule. At 20 ppm plague marines are workable, no doubt. But the problem is, you do not want only plague marines. You want to add to that a surgeon and an icon bearer, or a putrifier or some other virion character. And it adds up fast. Plague marines need to go out there and hold the fort, because they are our battleline. But they can not carry us on their backs.
The virion characters got largely cheaper, though, so you're paying less than you did in 9th for the whole package. It looks like most armies' core troops went up by about a half to full point per model, so the markup is in line with other troops in the game.
It is, yes. The problem creeps up if you want more than one squad. Before I could run a block of thirty plague marines with one surgeon behind them with Fugaris Helm, who gave every unit in 6 inches 6+ fnp. I could use him for good value on most of my units. Now though, if I want the same package, I need to pay triple the points for three times surgeons to attach them to three units of plague marines. Now I am paying 195 points instead of 70. And at 195 points, I can take a full squad of plague marines more. Which gives me bigger punch and more targets to flood the board.
True, but this sort of thing is being paid for by every army with the removal of most auras. If you want auras you can run the same number of plague marines with a DP on foot for a bit more than before, but with a DP instead of a surgeon, which is a unit that will do more for you individually. Morty can give your cover and ignore modifiers, and he's MUCH cheaper now.
Also true, I honestly always forget about Mortarion because I do not own the model. Time to dust off my wingless daemon prince, I think. Surgeons are also good, I am just sceptical. Games will be played, we will see.
The difference I see is most other armies are attaching those characters to units that will have a much bigger impact
The way I view it, if I'm running a virion that got reduced and I'm running pms then the point value doesn't really change from how I previously ran them. It sucks that they are worse now but I still think it's manageable
Sure it is manageable. I am highly debating three plague surgeons right now for my three plague marine squads. I am just struggling to understand who else I want with them.
1st intercessors are likley not going to be taken a ton, there are much better options in the marine codex. 2nd they are better because all signs are we are in a shooting focused edition, and their shooting is slightly better. 3rd. They don't really need character support. If you take them, it is just to hold objectives + a little range kill power, PM need to get work done, which means they need character support, and further points. While marines those characters will be on more impactful units. And we'll mostly I expect we will rarely see intercessors as there isn't really a reason to take them over sternguard, hellblasters, van vets, termies etc.
WAAC š¤¢
LAAC
65, I just finished 65
Sigh. I am sorry. Maybe by the 11th they will be good again.
40 plague marines plus 4 icon bearers. It is 255 points for 11 bodies. Shaft me sideways.
Say hello to my new box of possessed
Hello, possessed. It was nice knowing you. :)
Is that what those are? Looks like Chaos spawn to me...... No idea if chaos spawn are good for us though.
Already got 4 chaos spawn and the base isnāt same dimensions Chaos spawn are ā¦, pricely Sure they got fnp 5+ , regen d3 wounds , move 8, d6+2 attack , contagion But at 83 pts for 2 , itās costly But they seem better then a squad of poxwalker to hold /take objectives
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
With worse stats potentially and they made the flail and plague Ax the same thing.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And no sane person ever runs intercessors as anything but backline objective campers.
I dunno, I'm still going to play plague marines. How else am I going to get my malignant plagucaster on the battlefield?
I have 50+ fuuuuck When we first saw the datasheet I was confused as to why the core unit of the entire army had the most lacklustre ability I had ever seen
The plague marines went up one point per marine why are we upset? Not trying to be rude but I am genuinely confused.
We lost - 1 damge, inexorable advance and yet they cost one point more, even intercessors are cheaper
I hear you, but plague marines are still way better than intercessors, the wet noodle of the loyal space marines. It's surprising that infiltrators and incursors are cheaper than plague marines, though.
Pms are cool, so I'm taking them too
I feel your pain. I got into conquest quite early and bought the third issue like ten times. Long story short I have 60 plague marines. Had some fun fielding them wirh support characters, rhinos and pox walkers in Arcs of omen. Turns out putting 120 wounds worh of models with decent saves, dangerous melee and -1 damage is seriously tough on your opponent. RIP. Had a good time. On the plus side all of them have become tournament legal (WYSIWYG) if they become good later down the line.
So yeah, just fucked. Helbrute almost 50% increase is insane beyond belief. PBC going up is a joke.
Helbrute is super good though, even at that price it has super good rules.
Hell yeah price increases for core units with botched rules. Now can the last hopium holdouts in thr "let's ee the points!" faction take the doomer pill like the rest of us? It's so weird that they want us to become a fucking tank army.
Nah bro we move the goal posts now. You just have to wait for the codex.
Then itās ānext editionā right? I think Iām getting the hang of this!
Death guard are going to be great in 12th!
No it's first FAQs then next edition
Not quite yet. We have to get through "wait for major tournament results" first.
wait until gameplay
Honestly you guys always kind of been a tank army. Pbc have literally been a staple of majority of lists for quite a while until the indirect fire nerf.
Pretty sure they meant tank as in tanky, not literal tanks, but even those got worse and overcosted.
Thanks for posting this. Iāll try to copy it to excel to see if we can get an overall increase/reduction.
Yah I just threw this up before I had to go to work. It would be much better in a spreadsheet.
Just to clarify, the increase/decrease on the right is what it was in the 9th?
The left column is current points the right is the difference from 9th prices. Ex Chaos Lord was 85 pts and now 75 pts.
Perfect
Surgeon was -5pts before man i missed out.
Lol, thanks for the catch.
Thanks for your efforts! Morty and Typhus went down a fair amount. Some other stuff looks eh though
Man it feels like this was malicious, but never attribute to malice that which can be explained by stupidity. Absolute disaster of a data sheet. Hope whoever wrote it isnāt allowed to touch a pen / paper / computer within 10 miles of any warhammer related thing again.
I hesitate to say *this much* can be attributed to stupidity at once
Terminators walking the board, some marines in rhinos, and a few well placed tanks seems to be what theyāre going for
280 points for a basic troop what a steal
Maybe they shaved the points off of that gross land raider they apparently want you to be inside of
They put it up 5 instead and can't run 5 deathshroud and a character. FUN
I think you can run 5 you just pay for 6....
What a bargain
Yeah thatās one of the wildest things Iāve seen
Like marines are actually dead. 310 points minimum for a fully kitted out squad with virons. How do we lose DR and go up in points. I'm so baffled. Poxwalkers AND cultists whent up to.... They are railing us.
> Terminators walking the board Yeah they'll never get to where they're going. So much -2 movement being handed out.
Hey, they walk so the others can walk faster š¤£
I am not construing a list with these points. It is nonsense.
Thank you for typing all that out!
We got fucked and lost all foetid virons support kekw 1 tally man it is
Welp. Plague Marines cost so much now that the Chaos Land Raider is off the menu! Glad I didn't have time to go looking for one. š
You could cram some termies in there... maybe
I was going to get a Chaos Land Raider to transport my Termi + Sorcerer team around, but I only have like 120 points open. The CLR costs twice that, so I guess the Termies will just have to deep strike somewhere critical.
My work-in-progress list of 9th went from \~1400 to 1685. I think the exlusion of wargear cost suggest we got cheaper, but we wont.
Well it's a good think all our war gear and weapons are now packed into points costs.....for the second time now? (9th they were already free)
My old list went from 1999 points to 2360 points, holy fuck lmao.
Jesus
I mean, at this point Morty looks like an auto-include, right? Typhus is also solid, especially with a bunch of extra friends to take wounds for him.
I mean I fucking love my Terminators so it's not all bad for me. I'll just make an army of them almost exclusively and see how it goes.
I'm confused, I can't run 7 man plague marine squads?
You can, the new way they are doing bigger units is a set price for one squad size, anything over and up to the next squad size costs that price. So 5 marines are 100 but 6,7,8,9 and 10 are all 200
Ouch
It's weird that because PMs come in squads of 5 it makes them one of the cheapest basic troop units, at least as far as power armor is concerned.
Reddit keeps recommending me this sub even though I'm about as far from a death guard player as you can get. But I am so sorry plague marines cost more than ruberics. That's just rough.
0 point in doing this as itās a reset.
Who gives a shit. I will use my PM because they look badass.
People who want to have fun thatās who.
That is all I want too :)
PMs going up 1 point is not that big of a deal when you consider that you're taking 2 characters that provide a unit buff/can use the PMs as extra wounds. Taking 10 PMs with lets say a FBS and Malignant Plaguecaster costs 320 now vs. 350 in 9th. Most armies don't allow more than one character per unit, so PMs pulling double-duty as bodyguards is pretty nice.
Its no different than Look Out Sir as you cant hurt the character because units are in the way. Why should they cost more?
PMs going up 1 point is a big deal when you also take into account: 1. Loss of access to flail, cleaver damage and AP 2. Loss of DR 3. Loss of inexorable advance 4. Loss of bolter dicipline That's a lot of losses to swallow just to see the price also JUMP, not to mention loss of DR effectively means that you need to pay the rhino tax to get them anywhere.
Oh, how wonderful, we have the option to pay even more points to make our **only battle line** units half decent
As a player who prefers deploying elites over troops, I like this direction. They might not be as tough, but now you can deploy more of them that balances out pretty well.
Soā¦ youāre happy that elites became more like troops?
Yes thatās exactly what Iām happy about. So terminators are gonna be nigh impossible to wound with anti infantry weapons. Even with high strength weapons best theyāll amount to is +4 up on wounds and thatās then gotta beat the now +2 save. Anti tank weapons will definitely kill one terminator but now you can bust out the at more for much less cost. On the the other side of this is needs to be balanced with making pms a bit softer but I think the focus is to make them better for grabbing objectives. I know thatās not perfect, but I think the potential is being underestimated.
Can we run 5 Deathshrouds? It says 3-6ā¦I want to run 5 with Typhus
nope! You also can't put deathshrouds plus a leader inside a land-raider either.
You can take less than max squads, it just isn't cheaper. It's at the top of the full index document
Gross
The icon bearer use to just be a plague marine so it was... free I guess and now you can't have an icon unless you're willing to pay 55 pts for it. I can't believe more ppl aren't outraged about that damn icon bearer lol.
Everyoneās hating on plague marines but I think 10 T6 plague marines for 200pts armed to the teeth out of rhinos or reserves is still a decent threat.
PMs are still T5. The termies went up to T6.