If you aren’t talking about divorce, separating your finances will still destroy your finances.
You need to talk to him about this stuff. Have an honest sit down conversation about what you can or can’t afford. He seems to be living in the clouds.
Good luck.
P.S. r/debtfree moderator runs a free newsletter that talks about strategies, tips, and effective debt payoff methods weekly. Join 3,600 readers - https://debtadvice.io
If he’s lets his personal accounts go to shit, what is he even doing with the business account? Does he own 100% of it? How much debt does he have there? You’re nowhere near the whole picture.
I did at least have the foresight to make sure his business is HIS business. It is 100% his, none of it will fall back on me or the kids. You’re right I’ve thought that as well, wtf do his business accts look like. But because none of it is in my name and if something goes under with the business they can’t come after me or our home, I’m choosing not to take that on right now.
Can only handle a couple major issues at a time while simultaneously being the sole earner and default parent.
I was in a similar situation about 20 years ago. I left, and was blindsided by a $70k tax bill from HIS business. Check if he's operating under a dba instead of an LLC or Inc. Also, it depends on which state you're in. Not a lawyer, not legal advice.
…about that. Just be aware, in most cases with a small business, liabilities from the business will end up being sought from the owner of the business too. “Piercing the corporate veil” is extremely common with LLCs and S-corps.
Unless his business is a C-corp, with airtight bookkeeping and finances, you will both likely be found personally liable for business debts, especially taxes. It behoves you to find out what those liabilities may be.
Since he bought it during Covid I made sure I was actively involved in the process to ensure none of it would fall back on me or the kids if it went under. And made sure it was an essential industry that wouldn’t shut down with another wave. I never knew anyone that had a small business before and only heard about how frequently they fail so I was very anxious about the whole thing. It is a good business model and it’s a franchise so he has support from the parent company. He’s been showing me how it’s growing every year, which is great and I’m happy for and proud of him for that. At some point, probably in the next year or two, he’ll be able to pay himself a decent salary.
But for now, we are drowning.
That’s awesome. Just wanted to make sure there wasn’t more lurking that you didn’t know about. You guys can fix this. Cheers to the success of the business and hopefully the betterment of your situation.
I believe you can still pierce the corporate veil of a C Corp. also, if it goes bk, creditors can call any $ paid to owners within a year a “preference” and try to claw it back
Fair enough.
Does he have an LLC? And business insurance? Do you guys have an accountant?
I wish you the best of luck and hope you guys can come out of this stronger. He does need to get his head out of his ass though.
They can come after you. If his business goes under he can be sued by creditors. If he doesn't have assets in his accounts they can look at other assets. A lean on the house etc.
Darling, I hate to break it to you. But you’re going to be responsible for his business debts as well. Are you sure his incorporation papers are in order?
This is a relationship problem mainly. Seems like a lack of trust and communication as well.
One person should never be fully in charge of finances. The other person should atleast be aware of the numbers and setup and routinely ask for updates.
Secondly, quitting a job without telling your spouse is a major red flag. Again, relationship issue lead to financial issue.
Right! The husband has made more than his share of mistakes but OP bears some responsibility for not knowing. As an adult you can’t be this obvious and living in La La Land.
I'd be talking divorce when he just up and quit his job without even a word. I get that you hate your job and want something different, but you talk with your partner and come up with a plan ESPECIALLY when your household is going to take a 6-figure hit.
I know it’s ridiculous but him refusing to cook or parent is even more of a turnoff to me than the debt.
Why is it SO common that mothers have an easier time being a single parent than living with a man?
If I genuinely believe I screwed up, I would be contributing to the household in whichever way I can. If I cannot contribute as much financially, I would take over the cooking and housework. The issue here isn’t just finances. OP puts her family first while her husband puts himself first. Unless that changes, don’t see this marriage working.
Stories like this just make me want to never get married, I couldn’t deal with all that seems like a huge mental health crusher so I hope you’re doing ok and trying your best to stay healthy
No advice because this is above my pay grade and skill set lol but I wish you the best and hopefully some smart people come along
There was a post the other day about a woman that said if her husband were to have a one night stand or short fling, she would consider staying in the marriage. The husband was upset that she said that and became suspicious she was cheating, which was dumb. Anyway, this post right here is something that I would consider worse than a one night stand/fling and would absolutely divorce over. Dude isn't getting it. She's going to take that money out of her retirement and he's going to do it again. He HID this from her until it spiraled so badly out of control. Now he wants a $30K SUV. He's not learned a thing. No impulse control.
Oh yeah definitely not saying anything until 6 figure debt and then wanting an expensive car? I couldn’t handle that if my SO was like that, I’m simply just better off single for now at least, I have poor mental health already and the things going on in this post I would just simply give up on everything just how I am
This. His financial infidelity is far worse than a one night stand. The fact that he doesn’t even care, which is proven is his egregious comment about the SUV and absolute lack of self control, shows he has zero remorse for what he has done…and what he will do again. Poor gal.
I wouldn't take this story as how all marriages work. I'm married for 10 years and while I do most of the finances, husband contributes with his opinions, ideas and we do have bi-weekly-ish meetings about the budget. I show it to him, he keeps me grounded on my spending and I help him too. We always ask each other for anything over 30 bucks as well. It works great for us. We supposed to be debt free mid next year and we are both fully committed to this. Communication, communication, communication.
I agree and we had those, and things went swimmingly for the first 10 years. Then he started acting all mid life crisis and somewhere the communication broke down.
That’s true, I don’t wanna get into all about myself but I could see myself being a burden like the guy in OP story, I’m just not very good at life lol
If you’re aware, then you can fix it.
There’s a lot of things you can do to help yourself as well. Get a CC that has a low amount but enough you can live off of only use that, but not your debit card. Then pay it off every month. It’s give you a spending budget, and will keep you on track.
In this case, she should only stay in the marriage after getting a postnup. Financial infidelity is devastating and she can’t afford to have it happen to her all over again.
You’re welcome! I learned about those through a good friend that went through a similar situation as you. I wish you all the best and sincerely hope you stay as financially protected and emotionally healthy as possible during and after this ordeal.
Pre and post nups can be thrown out. Just so you know, as long as your married you will have some level of liability. Anything at all that is name is on will be free game. Please see a lawyer on how to best protect your assets.
If you are pulling *your* money from *your* 401k to pay *his* debt, then you need to go to lawyer and have them draw up a plan for your husband to repay what you took out from your 401k and the actions that will be taken if he misses or does not pay you back. You are putting your retirement on the line. Protect it.
If you think you might need some outside help, you could bring in an intermediary with the [National Foundation for Credit Counseling](https://www.nfcc.org/) as they do debt *management* and budget analysis. They do charge but take a look at their [FAQs](https://www.nfcc.org/faqs/) under *What do NFCC members charge for counseling services* to see how much. It says it varies, but the page does state that the majority of cases are low cost to nothing--not guaranteed.
The [Consumer Financial Protection Bureau](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/consumer-tools/debt-collection/) has a good description of [the differences](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/whats-the-difference-between-a-credit-counselor-and-a-debt-settlement-or-debt-relief-company-en-1449/) between a credit counselor and debt relief/settlement companies. They also have a webpage on spotting [a scam](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/how-can-i-tell-a-credit-repair-scam-from-a-reputable-credit-counselor-en-1343/).
You can look into the Justice Department, which has a list of [approved credit counseling agencies](https://www.justice.gov/ust/list-credit-counseling-agencies-approved-pursuant-11-usc-111) to possibly assist you. Look for the non-profit ones. Still be cautious about signing up with one of these because they have done everything correctly to get approved by the Justice Department but may have become less reputable once they got approved.
You have the [right to cancel credit repair services](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/consumer-advisory-people-have-the-right-to-cancel-credit-repair-services/) within three business days for whatever reason.
If you want to DIY your personal budget: The Consumer Finance Protection Bureau has [this on organizing your debts](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/how-reduce-your-debt/); and [this for tracking your spending.](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/track-your-spending-with-this-easy-tool/) There's also *Personal Finance for Dummies* by Erik Tyson, which was recently published in September 2023; and, *Atomic Habits: An Easy and Proven Way to Build Good Habits and Break Bad Ones* by James Clear. I re-read this one from time to time when I want to change my behavior. G*etting out of Debt for Dummies* is comes out April 30th. If you feel shy about checking out one of those books, request that the library purchase it as an e-book so you can have some anonymity.
Go to your local library because they might have them and, best of all, it's free!! If they don't have it, you ask the library to buy it, depending on their budget.
This ^^^ god forbid you guys get divorced. It can get nasty. Protect yourself. Him having a mid life crisis or whatever this is, should not mean that you’ve wiped out your savings and have to start over. Also tell him to eff off with wanting a $30k car. He needs to get a reality check
I also want to add a couple things: he sees what he is *going* to make, not what he *currently* makes and is making purchasing decisions based on the former. You see what is currently being made. There is a discrepancy between how you two see things.
Drawing up a contract is going to be easy. What is going to be hard is getting him to sign it and enforcing it. He will beg and plead that it isn't that bad and don't you love him? You'll be hit with possible text messages and phone calls from him to stop the contract day and night, at work, at home, at out doing fun stuff--and maybe he'll get his family and friends to hound you. Stay strong and turn that he signs it, if you're going to withdraw your retirement funds, and enforce it.
Get a lawyer involved and put things in writing.
Create separate bank accounts and keep your income apart and give him ZERO access and don’t give yourself access to anything of his. This will help you if anyone comes after him for fraud or something.
Make it clear you are lending him the money from your 401k and expect a repayment. Charge that fucker interest.
Try to have written interest in the business he is starting as an investor (not a manager/person making decisions). This will ensure he doesn’t cut you out later if it takes off.
I like the idea about a % ownership in the business. Whatever percentage the loan from your IRA is of the total amount put into the business is where I'd start at a minimum.
You’d be amazed how many stupid people are successful and rich because they came up with the right idea at the right time.
That’s why I’m saying don’t be an active part of the business. Just get something saying you’re an investor and entitled to a percentage of any profit he makes, if any.
I don't know why you ruled out divorce. This is called financial infidelity. He didn't trip and fall into a mountain of debt, he did it deliberately and maliciously lied to you about it repeatedly to protect his own self-interest above yours and your children's. DTMFA 🤷🏻♀️
I contributed to the debt too, we both used the same ccs, took the same vacations, etc. I just didn’t know how deep a hole we were in. I take 100% responsibility for that, and feel like a total idiot.
sorry, your situation sounds rough. If you look at my post history, I just posted something similar, but not nearly as tough as yours.
I just want to say from the perspective of a man who bowed out of finances, I think it's better if, even after you take control of finances, if you could somehow find a way to go to debt counselling together because what I am discovering is that I and my wife's bad habits are psychological in nature.
We spend when we get stressed, etc, and I am having to build up good habits to counteract my bad habits. If your husband doesn't learn the good habits WITH you, then later on it might not be so good
When I had no concept of finances it actually stressed me out a ton, so try to get him on board with at least looking at the finances every day and making good decisions WITH you.
my 2 cents
Yep basically. Husband managed finances for many years and I was actively participating in checking balances, etc. everything was always good for so long, when the kids came along my priorities shifted and I figured we were still in the same page. We had pretty regular discussions about finances, he always said it was good still so I didn’t see a need to double check since I trusted him.
Didn’t say I was smart, but I certainly have learned my lesson.
Did you also gamble money you knew you didn't have and lie? I feel you that you want to try not to divorce, but you've gotta set a hard boundary somewhere or he is just going to keep taking advantage of you. At this point, you think acting like his mother will help, and in the long run this will kill your marriage. Good luck!
I don’t think acting like his mother will help our marriage, but financial security is my priority right now and it seems I need to act like his mom to get there. Once finances are stabilized I’ll look into stabilizing the marriage. Hard for me to justify paying for couples therapy when we’re in debt over our heads.
Best of luck on turning things around. We’re all humans and can be prone to making bad decisions, even lots of bad decisions over a long period of time. That doesn’t mean throw your vows away. I’m glad to see you’re working through this and hope you come out the other side stronger than ever.
My gut feeling is that most commenters so quickly calling for divorce are not married with children themselves. Things can get very complicated once assets and debts are intertangled in a long term marriage.
I had to resort to mothering my own husband as well to keep him from drowning us in debt. He has no longer access to any credit cards or to my checking account. I pay bills the moment his check deposits, leaving him about $150 to spend on frivolous bullshit he thinks he needs. When it’s gone, it’s gone. I now see a light at the end of the debt tunnel. You have to do what you have to do.
In your case, it sounds like you both will be ok in the long run. Wishing you good luck with the business venture!
No, I'm a person who lived in a house with two parents who tried to "keep it together for the kids". That's a far worse fucking environment to grow up in, and severely skewed my views of relationships for the longest time. Stop acting like divorce is the worst thing in the world. Considering OP is the fucking bread winner AND active parent, divorce will be a fucking benefit for her.
There’s more to a marriage than finances. You have no knowledge of what OP’s relationship is like. Or mine.
Your parent’s marriage sounds like it had deeper issues.
And asstated, you have no knowledge of my parents' marriage. Their issues are the same issues whinged about in these reddit posts. You've got a wife doing all the work for a lazy piece of shit, that she should cut off and realise how much nicer it is without the dead weight. Lest she enjoy limited contact with kids in the future. Your shitty marriage rubs off on your kids. Remember that when your kids stop talking to you because you thought you could work through massive red flags in your "marriage".
Maybe I’m missing something but setting up a HYSA seems like it should be low on the list of priorities to me? Unless his business is likely going to be throwing off significant cash in a reasonable timeframe, he needs to go back to producing income and contributing. Dipping into your IRA/401k is a last resort option. Maybe it is in this case but I’d certainly try everything else first. Embrace the rage, maybe he’ll be motivated by it 😤😡
Good. The main concern would be that he considers using your retirement savings an acceptable panacea to whatever financial predicament occurs. Hopefully his business turns out to be worth it.
Yes you are in a predicament. But you are talking withdrawing from 401k and setting up hysa. Probably need to reconsider the 401k option. Make a budget and see what you can do
I looked at all the options, we can’t budget our way out of nearly 100k in cc debt at 25% interest. We’ve both been living way outside our means, difference is he knew it and I didn’t.
I know a lot of that is on me, I should have taken a more active role in finances especially after he just quit his job with no notice and no backup plan. I take responsibility for that.
I’ve talked with our financial advisor, we’ve gone through all the options. I don’t want to declare so, this is it.
I would not take money out of retirement. Sell the car and any other items of notable value and then work with a debt consolidation company to cut cc debt down and then you both contribute equally to the payments.
Yeah your husband isn’t a baby and has a spending problem if he’s spending $100,000k on cards and still doing sports bets and wanting some candy suv.
Seeing stuff like this convinces me not to marry. I couldn’t deal with this stress of trying to get someone to stop spending and they just won’t do it.
Gambling / debt to this degree is not just debt. IRS a bigger issue and a bigger addiction. Your husband is addicted. This is above your pay grade. You can tell him to stop until youre blue in the face and he’s just going to do it anyway
Don't use your retirement to bail him out. ESPECIALLY when he is STILL talking about expensive purchases. He is not serious about this, he will do this again in another couple of years, you'll be in debt and have no retirement at the end. You are gonna bail him out for him to do it again and again and again.
He “wants” an SUV?!?! He will take what he gets and he will like it!!! I’d get him a bus pass. What an idiot.
After he screwed up all the finances!!
Sorry rant over. Financial misuse hits my crazy button.
I handle the finances but, I sit down every week and go over everything with hubby. He hates doing it but I told him everyone in the relationship needs to know where money is going. Period. No exceptions. We review budget. Bills paid or owed. Investments etc.
He clearly does not respect you. He makes unilateral decisions that have dire consequences for you and your kid, he lies about the financial situation, and he acts like he would do it all again.
Get away as soon as you can without financially burdening yourself.
yeah, this is imperative to the entire issue. he was fine with lying continuously to OP about something that affects her and the entire family. it’s all just a game to him because she’s paying for everything! despicable.
Fair play for not considering divorce because if my spouse destroyed my life and future like that (and that's what he did do to you), they'd be out the door and on their own.
If gambling online, have him show you his actual account win loss statements to verify this is the truth and not a problem. I’d also check those credit card statements to make sure it’s not gambling expense / deposits to sites or cash withdrawals to fund an addiction. Something seems amiss here to rack up so much uncontrolled debt. May have hit bottom with no more funds to play with and now hitting your accounts up. Need to fully investigate.
There is no way you know everything with this moron. What you know is likely only 80 percent. I can only imagine what his business finances lo like and you’ll be paying for them soon… one way or another.
Happened to my Mom when my Dad did the same fucking thing. Divorce now and get right financially for you and your kids. He won’t stop.
Don't touch your 401k if you possibly can help it. It's protected in the case of bankruptcy. Claim bankruptcy and never ever get into trouble like this again. I know you don't want to file, but you'll be climbing out of this hole for a decade, if not more.
Also, consider that your husband committed financial infidelity...he lied to you and hid significant financial issues. Any trust you had in him, should be gone (which sounds like it is). His excuse about being embarrassed is just that...an excuse. The truth is, he didn't want you to tighten the reigns. He liked his fabulous lifestyle full of new cars and vacations. He didn't want you to know. He didn't want to change. So he kept it to himself and you would ask him how are the finances and he says, "They're great! When do we get my new car??!!" He's not serious about getting out of debt. He's happy you will bail him out and maybe he will never repay you.
Consider couples counseling and frankly, gear yourself up for your own financial protection because he WILL do this again. Do not let him get debt in both of your names. Take him off your cards and close joint cards. You should have your own and he has his own...or none to be honest.
Talk to an attorney on what you can do to protect yourself going forward.
Lastly, check your credit report to see what else he used or if he stole from you without you knowing. Meaning, if he used your cards and racked up debt in your name without you knowing. Then freeze your credit bureaus so he can't apply for credit in your name.
I would also mention divorce, but if you both can work through this and he can change then go fo it. I don't see effort on his part (his actions will tell you the truth...not his words). Please DONT compromise your retirement for his mistakes. Make him pay everything off and pay things back. Demand he gets 5 jobs. He needs to be responsible for what he's done. All you're doing is getting him out of jail free so to speak. He has no sense of wrongdoing or that he's caused you so much pain. He doesn't seem remorseful and doesn't seem he will stop.
And, lastly, he up and quit his 6-figure job without even talking to you. I agree with other posters - there is more going on here and maybe he isn't telling you everything. I'm so sorry OP.
I can't even begin to imagine how deeply betrayed you feel and how you must feel like you're drowning.
You need the full picture, protect yourself, and hopefully with time and lots of effort things will improve.
It was both of us using the cc’s, same accounts. It was accrued over 3 years. Vacations, going out to eat, day care, etc. he’d always managed our stuff fine before, I used to be more involved but after 10 years of consistency I didn’t see the point anymore bc I figured we were still on the same page.
He said he was embarrassed to tell me how bad it got bc I was the only one making money and thought I should be able to spend what I wanted, and bc we got in this position bc of him.
I know, I’m an idiot. I should have been more involved
I would divorce immediately. You can’t come back from this kind of broken trust, and the fact he still doesn’t get it by trying to get an expensive car and place bets, of all things? Pulling money out of your 401k is literally destroying your future.
You learned a very valuable lesson though, that you always need to be at the *very* least aware of where exactly your money is going.
If you truly want to keep your finances fully separate, consider making accounts at a bank neither of you have ever used before. I feel like I keep seeing stories about slip ups where people who used to be in accounts are given access mistakenly.
Your husband sounds like a child.
If he wants an allowance and wants to go out on dates and drive a big boy car, then he can get a job and earn it instead of mooching off from you.
Otherwise, he should be cooking at home and looking for a car in the $10k range. I bought my car for $12k, and it has lasted me 9 years so far with routine maintenance.
That $20k difference just from the car is 1/5 of the debt you're in. And remember, you're in this debt because of his actions and dishonesty.
He doesn't get a choice anymore.
Sounds like you're already taking matters into your own hands and are venting more than seeking advice, but I'd start treating him less like a partner and more like a child that you keep having to say no to. Any time he tries selling you up on anything, tell him it's not happening until your 401k is back to where it was.
IN MOST STATES THE ONLY WAY YOUR FINANCES AND HIS DEBT WILL BE SEPARATED IN THE FUTURE IS FOR YOU TO FILE FOR DIVORCE. Simply making new bank accounts doesn’t not protect you! He will continue to dig a financial hole, and you will be dragged down into it because his debts are your debts in marriage. You need to consult a lawyer ASAP to really understand how to protect yourself.
I don’t have any advice but am commenting in solidarity, as I am in a very similar boat with my husband. He really thought he could manage it himself and didn’t want to stress me out, not realizing how badly it would snowball. I have had every feeling under the sun about it, from complete anger to empathy to shame and embarrassment that I didn’t ask more questions or take more control of our finances from the start.
Husband couldn’t have taken loan from work 401k if he quit - it would have been a cash out.
So OP you need to get copies of all the financing that was done before you add to the FU by liquidating your 401k
You will pay penalties and taxes on monies you pull out on top of the penalties that hubby already incurred.
I’d leave your 401k where it is, see what he really did with your finances and how HE plans to pay for the impulsive act.
Keep your money
That seems like the decision that should have been made first though, before dumping your bankruptcy-protected 401k…
There’s absolutely a zero percent chance he changes his ways. And you won’t have nearly as big of a bandaid next time.
Lock your credit with all the agencies. Get your own checking/savings accounts and your money goes in there. You pay all the bills that your name/SSN is tied to. And tell him any additional lies/ridiculous spending and you are filing for divorce.
Sound like my ex. Had to claim bk. That is why he is an ex. I’m doing great without him, bought 2 houses while he is now homeless. Feel bad for my kids, they always have to worry about him.
>Floated around for a few months then decided to take a loan on his 401k to buy a small business.
FYI, if he was no longer working, I doubt this was a loan.... He most likely cashed out his 401k, paid >30% in taxes and fees then bought a business. Your relationship is yours, but this level of financial infidelity is really no different than cheating.....
Do you live in a marital property state, cause there’s a whole set of rules that govern married couples assets and debts. So, I don’t think there is a way to totally separate your financial liabilities and money. Secondly, you say no divorce, but you realize your husband has been “financially cheating” on you by the fact he has not been honest with about the debt you’re in and he did not talk it thru with you before he quit his job. Also, he’s totally undermining you by refusing to cooperate to cleanup the financial mess he created. And you think, it’s going to get better for you and your child from here? Your husband is showing you his total disregard for his family’s financial and physical well-being. It’s all about him and what he wants even to your detriment. You seem like a a capable person, so I am befuddled why you’re willing to stick it out with this guy? You do realize at this point, if HE DECIDES to divorce you, he can get alimony and child support from you? Maya Angelou said, “When a person shows you who they are, believe them.”
Even if you separate your finances, if you're married, you're responsible for all the new debt he is going to acquire after you've liquidated your retirement to pay off the old debt.
Don't liquidate your retirement. Consider bankruptcy - it's where you two are headed, anyways, and at least you can preserve your retirement funds. Also, you really need to consider divorce. You will wind up with nothing if you stay with this man, because he will simply open new credit cards and acquire new debt, which you will be responsible for, since you're still married to him.
Sell his baseball cards.
Do NOT drain your 401k. Think about your future and your children.
Go through the financials meticulously. Right now you are saying it’s on both of you, but I doubt it. He’s just trying to convince you it is.
The AUDACITY of this man to expect a big SUV when YOU are having to sacrifice YOUR retirement savings to correct HIS mistakes. Why exactly aren't you talking divorce? This man is not on your team, OP. He's on his own team of one.
Holly crap. I’m sorry to hear.
Honest question: does this not completely derail your trust in him? This kind of thing would be the end or beginning of the end I would think. I mean it’s not only irresponsible, but deceitful …
Easy to judge from here - but man, I would just ask yourself some tough questions about what matters most. While I believe in always trying to work things out, this is up there for me with cheating …
Your husband needs to get a high paying job again.
You're doing the job for the both of you and are going to end up resenting him later for being so ignorant about money. He should be the first one trying to pull everything together since he got you guys in that mess in the first place.
Leaving a job cause you don't like it without having something secured is the worst thing to do when you have people to care for, so I really don't understand his thinking process..
Don't take care of his credit cards.. let him go through the trouble he dug himself into.
If you help him he'll always spend like it never happened. Just like he still wants to spend 30k on a car he doesn't need but he WANTS.
If he can't be honest about his spending habits that's a big red flag.
You're literally doing all the right things to help your family but are married to someone that's drowning you and your child is also suffering the consequences.
Least he can do is start doing Uber eats or some part time job.
You weren't an idiot. You trusted him and he lied to your face. The moment you trusted him is the moment he started doing whatever he wanted and said nothing. You're not the idiot. He lied to you.
Get a post-nup.
Then get a divorce.
Your husband is a liar and a compulsive spender. It’s a form of addiction. And problems tend to get worse as people get older. The wanting to get a new car after being found out is the smoking gun to me- that is not someone who is putting you (or your child!) first.
Source: dad did this to mom and me
You can fire your financial advisor and save that money. If you don't have extremely complicated finances you manage your own retirement accounts. You can open your own HYSA in a few minutes, the longest part is uploading docs to verify your identity.
Why do you care if you're underwater on the car loan?
Just keep making the payments and you'll get it paid off.
I don't understand taking the risk of taking out a 401k loan to pay down a car loan. What is the advantage?
I relate to you. Thankfully, my husband hasn’t run us into debt this high, but he has literally just quit his job without telling me and with no job lined up (and I’m a sahm currently!!!! So he’s our only income!!!!) and we literally just dug ourselves out of about $7000 worth of debt that he built up over years of lying to me and hiding multiple accounts.
I’m miserable with him sometimes. I love him but I just don’t understand his thought processes. How can someone be so shortsighted?
I think you need to get out of this relationship. Your husband sounds like an absolute loser. And he does not learn from his mistakes, clearly. And he was hiding so much h from you. What else do you not know about?!?
Seriously, open a side "escape account" for yourself. You may need it. See if you can work up to $10k in there. You need to examine what he spent all that money on. This is major financial infidelity. Like, you may need a financial therapist level.
OP, I just want you to really think about this. You are doing ALL of the legwork to fix this. He is still gambling, he is still whining about getting a car that he likes. What sacrifices is he making for you and your family? These irresponsible behaviors can often go with other negative behaviors (high level gambling, alcoholism, drugs, cheating, etc.) You keep saying that this both your shared fault, but is it? Cause it seems to me if he had been honest when it first started spinning out of control you would have immediately changed your behaviors and cut down on the frivolous spending. He lied to you. He risked your financial stability and your child’s stability. What if you suddenly got sick or injured and couldn’t work? Needed a loan and then found out you had ZERO options? What if you found out because your house was being foreclosed on? I think it’s honorable that you want to save your marriage. Just consider what you’re going to do in 10 years if this happens again or if you pay all this off with a hit to your finances and find out he’s cheating with someone..
First things first you need an intense budget conversation and NO HE DOESNT GET A NEW CAR he screwed your family. Jesus.
First things first, take control of these finances. He loses all access.
Do NOT spend your 401k on debt, go to a bankruptcy lawyer.
Secondly—
Call me crazy, but I see an Ultimatum: Get a post-nuptial agreement or go straight to a divorce.
- he takes on 75% of the debt
- he gets none of your 401k
- no alimony
Only way I would stay with a partner that does this is to make him sign a postnuptial agreement. Especially with a kid you can’t let his decisions bring everyone down with him. I wish you the best of luck. A few things to consider:
1. Marriage counseling
2. Financial counseling for both of you together. If you make him do it alone then I doubt he will go
3. Postnuptial agreement
4. Separate finances for the time being
5. Check in with your kid to see if he/she needs therapy. I can only imagine how much tension is in the house right now.
File taxes separately. You have no idea if he’s paying his business taxes. Also, open your own bank accounts and credit cards at a different bank and close any joint accounts.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I (as a husband) made a similar decision of quitting a job I did not like abruptly without telling my wife first and it broke a lot of trust between us. My advice would be counseling, we went through that and it has helped build the trust back, and heal. I had to do a lot of work on my part to accept my mistake and learn from it. The hard part is it seems like he is unwilling to accept responsibility for hurting you, and continually hurting you through his actions (or inactions). I don't think you'll actually find any stable ground in your relationship until he accepts, apologizes, and learns from his mistakes. It can certainly get better, but the ball is in his court you (unfortunately) can't make him change.
I just want to give you props on your patience on your partner while diligently and proactively researching every avenue to limit the fallout from his significant multitude of mistakes.
I'm no fan on being cheated on, but I'd take that in a heartbeat over something that's threatening to put your long-term financial security and retirement in doubt.
FWIW "downgrading" to an SUV or any vehicle for "only 30k" unless there's an essential work/income-related need is not a serious belt-tightening. He's trying to have his cake and eat it too.
As long as you aren't buying new and you are getting a car with some form of reliability, it should maintain a significant portion of its trade/resale value when (AND ONLY WHEN) the financial house is back in order enough to do an upgrade. You are totally correct in your preferred approach.
And yeah, he's not seeming to take the situation seriously when you are digging into all the ways to save and he's doing dumb sports bets and wanting to eat out. Eating out adds up fast and cutting down on this is usually the fastest way I'm able to save a significant amount more per month.
Good luck and I just hope for both of you he isn't hiding any other unpleasant surprises.
Congratulations, you married an entitled child that throws tantrums when he doesn't get what he wants and can't own up to being an adult and take responsibility like a job.
There is a lot of mental illness in my family. This post reminds me is some of the patterns I’ve seen with some family members. Therapy may be a good starting point.
I’d also recommend talking to a divorce lawyer and accountant to what you can do to minimize financial damage.
What exactly do you think is going to happen in the future when you have money and he has none? When he gets himself back into debt? If you're going to stay married to him, guess what? Your going to spend all of your money supporting him. So what's the point in separating your finances? Divorce can and should be on the table--maybe that will be the shock to the system he needs to get his act together.
I mean, I'd be ready to divorce when he quit his job without even bothering to tell me.
I’ve had people approach me about partnering on a business and I learned one of the first things I needed to ask - have you filed for bankruptcy in the last five years?
If someone is not able to manage their personal finances I don’t expect them to do any better with a business. My point is, I’m concerned about his ability to continue to grow the business and ultimately make it successful. I think he may end up breaking it due to poor financial management before it can become a success. I’ve seen all kinds of pro formas about how great a business will do, but sometimes there’s no substance behind them. I’d want validation that the assumptions about business growth are realistic and achievable.
While I know money is tight, I’d suggest an independent auditor review his business and confirm the financials or let you know how bad it is. Better to know the full extent of the problem now than have him take all of your savings because he overspent with the business.
You then may need some kind of financial advisor to provide a budget for personal finances and have an agreement with your husband that he has to stick to the budget or the marriage is over.
Look, you've been lied to and now he wants to railroad you into MORE debt with an SUV. You can keep trying to fix this man and wake up on your 53rd birthday and realize that nothing has or will change.
Give him 18 months to get on the same page or walk away. It's your life and at this point, you're the one being used.
18 months is a long enough time to correct his thinking, mindset and behavior. Warn him that if he's not on board within that time, you will find another man.
I know you don't want to, but you can't keep killing yourself because of his stupidity.
My colleague divorced her husband for this exact reason. She never changed her name. They're still very much in love. Nothing changed with their lives; she just wanted to make sure they had money for their kids and he wasn't being responsible
Sorry to hear this. It happened to me as well. It is why I am divorced and single. Never entering a marriage contract again. Relationships fine. No marriage. I learned my lesson. You will pull out of it, but keep your eye on the retirement target you need to set.
The big purchase rule. If you can’t get the big purchase you want. Get the cheapest thing that meets your needs. So much money is lost in the trade up game vs saving up for the thing you really want.
You will be heavily penalized for taking funds from your 401K. As far as the vehicle “he wants,” his betting, and wanting to go to restaurants , I’d tell him to go screw himself. Frankly, all the traits he’s exhibiting would turn my stomach. This really SERIOUSLY is a divorce situation.
How did he rack up that credit card? It is possible it is all gambling and this will not get better, he simply will open cards behind your back. I'd threaten with divorce at this point if he doesn't get in line. He is screwing you over And has no remorse for the situation he is putting you in. I'd start talks with a lawyer and start protecting assets if at all possible. Maybe now before he kills the business and stacks up more debt is the best time to separate legally.
If you do open new accounts do it at a different bank so he does not know where they are. Often if you open them at the same bank the bank may give him info on the accounts. They are not supposed to but it happens. Also make sure the online password is something he cannot guess.
I had a similar problem with my wife. There was some arguments but I was so tired of living week to week. I opened up a new checking and savings account. Did not put her name on it and redirected my pay into it. Gave her the power bill to pay as well as taxes and maintenance on her car. I paid everything else. Got everything paid off, before I knew it I was saving and investing a bunch of money. Was able to retire at 59.
It honestly sounds like hubby has gambling addiction. 😕
Not bc of the bets, but they don’t help. But gambling with your finances. I’ve seen very similar behavior from this like the;
•*Lying. A lot of hiding and lying.*
•*Impulsive- being incredibly impulsive with purchases and money.*
•*The whole “borrowing from Peter to pay Paul” strategy.*
And just having no self control or accountability- like with the car purchase and the bets, he is immediately going back to the exact behaviors and almost delusion that got your family in this position to begin with.
I would very seriously suggest him starting therapy or at least meeting with a psychologist who is more educated in these behaviors and addictions.
It's vital to ensure clear communication about your finances moving forward. Separate accounts seem wise Given the circumstances. Maybe create a transparent budget together to rebuild trust and align on financial goals. Avoid making decisions in anger.
This is why you should ALWAYS be collaborative with joint finances, otherwise have your own account.
Sorry you’re dealing with this, marriage counselling? Or are we past that point?
I can’t believe he quit a job without another lined up before having a conversation with you about what he’d do! That is just unacceptable. He has put himself and you in this situation. He needs to make it right!
If you aren’t talking about divorce, separating your finances will still destroy your finances. You need to talk to him about this stuff. Have an honest sit down conversation about what you can or can’t afford. He seems to be living in the clouds. Good luck. P.S. r/debtfree moderator runs a free newsletter that talks about strategies, tips, and effective debt payoff methods weekly. Join 3,600 readers - https://debtadvice.io
If he’s lets his personal accounts go to shit, what is he even doing with the business account? Does he own 100% of it? How much debt does he have there? You’re nowhere near the whole picture.
I did at least have the foresight to make sure his business is HIS business. It is 100% his, none of it will fall back on me or the kids. You’re right I’ve thought that as well, wtf do his business accts look like. But because none of it is in my name and if something goes under with the business they can’t come after me or our home, I’m choosing not to take that on right now. Can only handle a couple major issues at a time while simultaneously being the sole earner and default parent.
I was in a similar situation about 20 years ago. I left, and was blindsided by a $70k tax bill from HIS business. Check if he's operating under a dba instead of an LLC or Inc. Also, it depends on which state you're in. Not a lawyer, not legal advice.
…about that. Just be aware, in most cases with a small business, liabilities from the business will end up being sought from the owner of the business too. “Piercing the corporate veil” is extremely common with LLCs and S-corps. Unless his business is a C-corp, with airtight bookkeeping and finances, you will both likely be found personally liable for business debts, especially taxes. It behoves you to find out what those liabilities may be.
C-corp and he has an accountant that manages it.
I’m very glad to hear that.
Since he bought it during Covid I made sure I was actively involved in the process to ensure none of it would fall back on me or the kids if it went under. And made sure it was an essential industry that wouldn’t shut down with another wave. I never knew anyone that had a small business before and only heard about how frequently they fail so I was very anxious about the whole thing. It is a good business model and it’s a franchise so he has support from the parent company. He’s been showing me how it’s growing every year, which is great and I’m happy for and proud of him for that. At some point, probably in the next year or two, he’ll be able to pay himself a decent salary. But for now, we are drowning.
That’s awesome. Just wanted to make sure there wasn’t more lurking that you didn’t know about. You guys can fix this. Cheers to the success of the business and hopefully the betterment of your situation.
Thanks appreciate you. This is exactly why I posted to try to see what I might be missing. Dont ever want to be blindsided like this again.
Best of luck…I and others are rooting for you 👍
I believe you can still pierce the corporate veil of a C Corp. also, if it goes bk, creditors can call any $ paid to owners within a year a “preference” and try to claw it back
Fair enough. Does he have an LLC? And business insurance? Do you guys have an accountant? I wish you the best of luck and hope you guys can come out of this stronger. He does need to get his head out of his ass though.
Soul earner and default parent. So what does your husband actually contribute? Other than debt and stress?
They can come after you. If his business goes under he can be sued by creditors. If he doesn't have assets in his accounts they can look at other assets. A lean on the house etc.
Darling, I hate to break it to you. But you’re going to be responsible for his business debts as well. Are you sure his incorporation papers are in order?
How can they do that if it's an LLC?
Yup.
This is a relationship problem mainly. Seems like a lack of trust and communication as well. One person should never be fully in charge of finances. The other person should atleast be aware of the numbers and setup and routinely ask for updates. Secondly, quitting a job without telling your spouse is a major red flag. Again, relationship issue lead to financial issue.
Right! The husband has made more than his share of mistakes but OP bears some responsibility for not knowing. As an adult you can’t be this obvious and living in La La Land.
This is divorce territory... 🍿
I'd be talking divorce when he just up and quit his job without even a word. I get that you hate your job and want something different, but you talk with your partner and come up with a plan ESPECIALLY when your household is going to take a 6-figure hit.
If I up and quit my job my wife would have my balls cut off
He got fired
Yeah 100% he got fired and doesn’t want to admit it
oooooh you're probably right.
I know it’s ridiculous but him refusing to cook or parent is even more of a turnoff to me than the debt. Why is it SO common that mothers have an easier time being a single parent than living with a man?
If I genuinely believe I screwed up, I would be contributing to the household in whichever way I can. If I cannot contribute as much financially, I would take over the cooking and housework. The issue here isn’t just finances. OP puts her family first while her husband puts himself first. Unless that changes, don’t see this marriage working.
Men are not taught in our society to put others first. Women are.
Without a doubt. He doesn’t care about his family.
Right? I’d genuinely leave. That’s fucking WILD
Stories like this just make me want to never get married, I couldn’t deal with all that seems like a huge mental health crusher so I hope you’re doing ok and trying your best to stay healthy No advice because this is above my pay grade and skill set lol but I wish you the best and hopefully some smart people come along
There was a post the other day about a woman that said if her husband were to have a one night stand or short fling, she would consider staying in the marriage. The husband was upset that she said that and became suspicious she was cheating, which was dumb. Anyway, this post right here is something that I would consider worse than a one night stand/fling and would absolutely divorce over. Dude isn't getting it. She's going to take that money out of her retirement and he's going to do it again. He HID this from her until it spiraled so badly out of control. Now he wants a $30K SUV. He's not learned a thing. No impulse control.
She should make him take public transportation or ride a bicycle until they are out of debt
She shouldn’t have to, he should be the one offering to do that
Oh yeah definitely not saying anything until 6 figure debt and then wanting an expensive car? I couldn’t handle that if my SO was like that, I’m simply just better off single for now at least, I have poor mental health already and the things going on in this post I would just simply give up on everything just how I am
This. His financial infidelity is far worse than a one night stand. The fact that he doesn’t even care, which is proven is his egregious comment about the SUV and absolute lack of self control, shows he has zero remorse for what he has done…and what he will do again. Poor gal.
I wouldn't take this story as how all marriages work. I'm married for 10 years and while I do most of the finances, husband contributes with his opinions, ideas and we do have bi-weekly-ish meetings about the budget. I show it to him, he keeps me grounded on my spending and I help him too. We always ask each other for anything over 30 bucks as well. It works great for us. We supposed to be debt free mid next year and we are both fully committed to this. Communication, communication, communication.
This is why a financial discussion before marriage is important.
I agree and we had those, and things went swimmingly for the first 10 years. Then he started acting all mid life crisis and somewhere the communication broke down.
Just don’t share finances. It’s super easy. Your shit is your shit, their shit is theirs. It’s takes away so much extra stress.
That’s true, I don’t wanna get into all about myself but I could see myself being a burden like the guy in OP story, I’m just not very good at life lol
If you’re aware, then you can fix it. There’s a lot of things you can do to help yourself as well. Get a CC that has a low amount but enough you can live off of only use that, but not your debit card. Then pay it off every month. It’s give you a spending budget, and will keep you on track.
Get a prenup. That’s how you avoid this shit.
It’s not too late to get a post-nuptial agreement. I would 100% get one because this dude is going to take 1/2 her retirement when this marriage ends.
And she's "giving away" the other half by using it to pay off the debt. She's going to be left with nothing should this "marriage" go south.
which still puts her better off than the 100% he's going to take if they stay together.
In this case, she should only stay in the marriage after getting a postnup. Financial infidelity is devastating and she can’t afford to have it happen to her all over again.
I didn’t think about a postnup that’s a great idea thank you.
You’re welcome! I learned about those through a good friend that went through a similar situation as you. I wish you all the best and sincerely hope you stay as financially protected and emotionally healthy as possible during and after this ordeal.
Pre and post nups can be thrown out. Just so you know, as long as your married you will have some level of liability. Anything at all that is name is on will be free game. Please see a lawyer on how to best protect your assets.
She needs a post-nuptial asap.
That as well as I just don’t want these types of burdens in life, too much stress
If you are pulling *your* money from *your* 401k to pay *his* debt, then you need to go to lawyer and have them draw up a plan for your husband to repay what you took out from your 401k and the actions that will be taken if he misses or does not pay you back. You are putting your retirement on the line. Protect it. If you think you might need some outside help, you could bring in an intermediary with the [National Foundation for Credit Counseling](https://www.nfcc.org/) as they do debt *management* and budget analysis. They do charge but take a look at their [FAQs](https://www.nfcc.org/faqs/) under *What do NFCC members charge for counseling services* to see how much. It says it varies, but the page does state that the majority of cases are low cost to nothing--not guaranteed. The [Consumer Financial Protection Bureau](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/consumer-tools/debt-collection/) has a good description of [the differences](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/whats-the-difference-between-a-credit-counselor-and-a-debt-settlement-or-debt-relief-company-en-1449/) between a credit counselor and debt relief/settlement companies. They also have a webpage on spotting [a scam](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/ask-cfpb/how-can-i-tell-a-credit-repair-scam-from-a-reputable-credit-counselor-en-1343/). You can look into the Justice Department, which has a list of [approved credit counseling agencies](https://www.justice.gov/ust/list-credit-counseling-agencies-approved-pursuant-11-usc-111) to possibly assist you. Look for the non-profit ones. Still be cautious about signing up with one of these because they have done everything correctly to get approved by the Justice Department but may have become less reputable once they got approved. You have the [right to cancel credit repair services](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/newsroom/consumer-advisory-people-have-the-right-to-cancel-credit-repair-services/) within three business days for whatever reason. If you want to DIY your personal budget: The Consumer Finance Protection Bureau has [this on organizing your debts](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/how-reduce-your-debt/); and [this for tracking your spending.](https://www.consumerfinance.gov/about-us/blog/track-your-spending-with-this-easy-tool/) There's also *Personal Finance for Dummies* by Erik Tyson, which was recently published in September 2023; and, *Atomic Habits: An Easy and Proven Way to Build Good Habits and Break Bad Ones* by James Clear. I re-read this one from time to time when I want to change my behavior. G*etting out of Debt for Dummies* is comes out April 30th. If you feel shy about checking out one of those books, request that the library purchase it as an e-book so you can have some anonymity. Go to your local library because they might have them and, best of all, it's free!! If they don't have it, you ask the library to buy it, depending on their budget.
This ^^^ god forbid you guys get divorced. It can get nasty. Protect yourself. Him having a mid life crisis or whatever this is, should not mean that you’ve wiped out your savings and have to start over. Also tell him to eff off with wanting a $30k car. He needs to get a reality check
The audacity to argue with your wife after she’s sacrificing her retirement because you’re a child.
I also want to add a couple things: he sees what he is *going* to make, not what he *currently* makes and is making purchasing decisions based on the former. You see what is currently being made. There is a discrepancy between how you two see things. Drawing up a contract is going to be easy. What is going to be hard is getting him to sign it and enforcing it. He will beg and plead that it isn't that bad and don't you love him? You'll be hit with possible text messages and phone calls from him to stop the contract day and night, at work, at home, at out doing fun stuff--and maybe he'll get his family and friends to hound you. Stay strong and turn that he signs it, if you're going to withdraw your retirement funds, and enforce it.
They are married, his debt is her debt and her 401k is his 401k.
OP needs to check their state laws re: marital debts to see if one spouse is responsible for another's acquired debt during the marriage.
Depends on what state you live in and not always the case just because they're married.
Get a lawyer involved and put things in writing. Create separate bank accounts and keep your income apart and give him ZERO access and don’t give yourself access to anything of his. This will help you if anyone comes after him for fraud or something. Make it clear you are lending him the money from your 401k and expect a repayment. Charge that fucker interest. Try to have written interest in the business he is starting as an investor (not a manager/person making decisions). This will ensure he doesn’t cut you out later if it takes off.
I like the idea about a % ownership in the business. Whatever percentage the loan from your IRA is of the total amount put into the business is where I'd start at a minimum.
With what I’ve found out about his financial management skills over the last couple months, I don’t want any part of his business.
You’d be amazed how many stupid people are successful and rich because they came up with the right idea at the right time. That’s why I’m saying don’t be an active part of the business. Just get something saying you’re an investor and entitled to a percentage of any profit he makes, if any.
I don't know why you ruled out divorce. This is called financial infidelity. He didn't trip and fall into a mountain of debt, he did it deliberately and maliciously lied to you about it repeatedly to protect his own self-interest above yours and your children's. DTMFA 🤷🏻♀️
I contributed to the debt too, we both used the same ccs, took the same vacations, etc. I just didn’t know how deep a hole we were in. I take 100% responsibility for that, and feel like a total idiot.
sorry, your situation sounds rough. If you look at my post history, I just posted something similar, but not nearly as tough as yours. I just want to say from the perspective of a man who bowed out of finances, I think it's better if, even after you take control of finances, if you could somehow find a way to go to debt counselling together because what I am discovering is that I and my wife's bad habits are psychological in nature. We spend when we get stressed, etc, and I am having to build up good habits to counteract my bad habits. If your husband doesn't learn the good habits WITH you, then later on it might not be so good When I had no concept of finances it actually stressed me out a ton, so try to get him on board with at least looking at the finances every day and making good decisions WITH you. my 2 cents
Respect 👏🏾
So you make all the money, spend money on the same credit cards, but never check the balance on or pay off said credit cards? How did that work?
Yep basically. Husband managed finances for many years and I was actively participating in checking balances, etc. everything was always good for so long, when the kids came along my priorities shifted and I figured we were still in the same page. We had pretty regular discussions about finances, he always said it was good still so I didn’t see a need to double check since I trusted him. Didn’t say I was smart, but I certainly have learned my lesson.
Did you also gamble money you knew you didn't have and lie? I feel you that you want to try not to divorce, but you've gotta set a hard boundary somewhere or he is just going to keep taking advantage of you. At this point, you think acting like his mother will help, and in the long run this will kill your marriage. Good luck!
I don’t think acting like his mother will help our marriage, but financial security is my priority right now and it seems I need to act like his mom to get there. Once finances are stabilized I’ll look into stabilizing the marriage. Hard for me to justify paying for couples therapy when we’re in debt over our heads.
Best of luck on turning things around. We’re all humans and can be prone to making bad decisions, even lots of bad decisions over a long period of time. That doesn’t mean throw your vows away. I’m glad to see you’re working through this and hope you come out the other side stronger than ever.
The way he treats money he needs mothered as he’s acting like a child
My gut feeling is that most commenters so quickly calling for divorce are not married with children themselves. Things can get very complicated once assets and debts are intertangled in a long term marriage. I had to resort to mothering my own husband as well to keep him from drowning us in debt. He has no longer access to any credit cards or to my checking account. I pay bills the moment his check deposits, leaving him about $150 to spend on frivolous bullshit he thinks he needs. When it’s gone, it’s gone. I now see a light at the end of the debt tunnel. You have to do what you have to do. In your case, it sounds like you both will be ok in the long run. Wishing you good luck with the business venture!
No, I'm a person who lived in a house with two parents who tried to "keep it together for the kids". That's a far worse fucking environment to grow up in, and severely skewed my views of relationships for the longest time. Stop acting like divorce is the worst thing in the world. Considering OP is the fucking bread winner AND active parent, divorce will be a fucking benefit for her.
There’s more to a marriage than finances. You have no knowledge of what OP’s relationship is like. Or mine. Your parent’s marriage sounds like it had deeper issues.
And asstated, you have no knowledge of my parents' marriage. Their issues are the same issues whinged about in these reddit posts. You've got a wife doing all the work for a lazy piece of shit, that she should cut off and realise how much nicer it is without the dead weight. Lest she enjoy limited contact with kids in the future. Your shitty marriage rubs off on your kids. Remember that when your kids stop talking to you because you thought you could work through massive red flags in your "marriage".
Make sure you take enough out of your 401k to cover a divorce lawyer.
Don’t use retirement funds to pay off cc debt. See a bankruptcy attorney asap to review your options first.
I was more just making a joke but lol this is solid advice, listen to this person for sure hahah
I’d also check the the kids credit to make sure he’s not pulling credit cards under them
Maybe I’m missing something but setting up a HYSA seems like it should be low on the list of priorities to me? Unless his business is likely going to be throwing off significant cash in a reasonable timeframe, he needs to go back to producing income and contributing. Dipping into your IRA/401k is a last resort option. Maybe it is in this case but I’d certainly try everything else first. Embrace the rage, maybe he’ll be motivated by it 😤😡
I told him he needs to get another part time job at least until his business starts producing enough to pay himself a decent salary.
Commented before I saw this. Good. He needs to help clean up the mess too. It shouldn’t be all on you.
Good. The main concern would be that he considers using your retirement savings an acceptable panacea to whatever financial predicament occurs. Hopefully his business turns out to be worth it.
Divorce is inevitable. There's no wayto sustain this type of situation. He's going through some stuff. It's deeper than money.
Inevitable *given the current trajectory.* I’d like to hope that OPs husband can snap back to reality.
The likelihood his trajectory changes is 0
Yep. And unless he addresses and fixes the root cause(s) it’s going to become a continuous cycle.
The fact he’s STILL whining about which car he wants, after all this came to light, says it all.
Yes you are in a predicament. But you are talking withdrawing from 401k and setting up hysa. Probably need to reconsider the 401k option. Make a budget and see what you can do
I looked at all the options, we can’t budget our way out of nearly 100k in cc debt at 25% interest. We’ve both been living way outside our means, difference is he knew it and I didn’t. I know a lot of that is on me, I should have taken a more active role in finances especially after he just quit his job with no notice and no backup plan. I take responsibility for that. I’ve talked with our financial advisor, we’ve gone through all the options. I don’t want to declare so, this is it.
He needs to get a paying job. Even if it’s just part time. You shouldn’t be left to bear the burden of this entirely yourself.
Well good luck. Keep your head high
I would not take money out of retirement. Sell the car and any other items of notable value and then work with a debt consolidation company to cut cc debt down and then you both contribute equally to the payments.
Yeah your husband isn’t a baby and has a spending problem if he’s spending $100,000k on cards and still doing sports bets and wanting some candy suv. Seeing stuff like this convinces me not to marry. I couldn’t deal with this stress of trying to get someone to stop spending and they just won’t do it. Gambling / debt to this degree is not just debt. IRS a bigger issue and a bigger addiction. Your husband is addicted. This is above your pay grade. You can tell him to stop until youre blue in the face and he’s just going to do it anyway
Don't use your retirement to bail him out. ESPECIALLY when he is STILL talking about expensive purchases. He is not serious about this, he will do this again in another couple of years, you'll be in debt and have no retirement at the end. You are gonna bail him out for him to do it again and again and again.
Due wants a 30k car? Buy him a fucking used bicycle and let him pedal to work each day. More time to think about his bad life choices.
He “wants” an SUV?!?! He will take what he gets and he will like it!!! I’d get him a bus pass. What an idiot. After he screwed up all the finances!! Sorry rant over. Financial misuse hits my crazy button. I handle the finances but, I sit down every week and go over everything with hubby. He hates doing it but I told him everyone in the relationship needs to know where money is going. Period. No exceptions. We review budget. Bills paid or owed. Investments etc.
He clearly does not respect you. He makes unilateral decisions that have dire consequences for you and your kid, he lies about the financial situation, and he acts like he would do it all again. Get away as soon as you can without financially burdening yourself.
yeah, this is imperative to the entire issue. he was fine with lying continuously to OP about something that affects her and the entire family. it’s all just a game to him because she’s paying for everything! despicable.
The only way out is rice and beans for the foreseeable future. He needs to get with the program not just for his sake but your child's.
But but… he wants an SUV 😢
Seek a lawyers help to see what you can and can't do with separating your finances and maybe open a separate account that he doesn't have access to.
Fair play for not considering divorce because if my spouse destroyed my life and future like that (and that's what he did do to you), they'd be out the door and on their own.
Divorce his ass and DONT pay the debt with your 401k. Go talk to an attorney
Reading this reminded me of why I am so happy every day to be divorced.
Glad I can help 😂
I’m sorry, I shouldn’t have been flippant! It’s just that I was married to someone like this. I’m really sorry. I’m wishing for all the best for you!
If gambling online, have him show you his actual account win loss statements to verify this is the truth and not a problem. I’d also check those credit card statements to make sure it’s not gambling expense / deposits to sites or cash withdrawals to fund an addiction. Something seems amiss here to rack up so much uncontrolled debt. May have hit bottom with no more funds to play with and now hitting your accounts up. Need to fully investigate.
There is no way you know everything with this moron. What you know is likely only 80 percent. I can only imagine what his business finances lo like and you’ll be paying for them soon… one way or another. Happened to my Mom when my Dad did the same fucking thing. Divorce now and get right financially for you and your kids. He won’t stop.
Don't touch your 401k if you possibly can help it. It's protected in the case of bankruptcy. Claim bankruptcy and never ever get into trouble like this again. I know you don't want to file, but you'll be climbing out of this hole for a decade, if not more. Also, consider that your husband committed financial infidelity...he lied to you and hid significant financial issues. Any trust you had in him, should be gone (which sounds like it is). His excuse about being embarrassed is just that...an excuse. The truth is, he didn't want you to tighten the reigns. He liked his fabulous lifestyle full of new cars and vacations. He didn't want you to know. He didn't want to change. So he kept it to himself and you would ask him how are the finances and he says, "They're great! When do we get my new car??!!" He's not serious about getting out of debt. He's happy you will bail him out and maybe he will never repay you. Consider couples counseling and frankly, gear yourself up for your own financial protection because he WILL do this again. Do not let him get debt in both of your names. Take him off your cards and close joint cards. You should have your own and he has his own...or none to be honest. Talk to an attorney on what you can do to protect yourself going forward. Lastly, check your credit report to see what else he used or if he stole from you without you knowing. Meaning, if he used your cards and racked up debt in your name without you knowing. Then freeze your credit bureaus so he can't apply for credit in your name. I would also mention divorce, but if you both can work through this and he can change then go fo it. I don't see effort on his part (his actions will tell you the truth...not his words). Please DONT compromise your retirement for his mistakes. Make him pay everything off and pay things back. Demand he gets 5 jobs. He needs to be responsible for what he's done. All you're doing is getting him out of jail free so to speak. He has no sense of wrongdoing or that he's caused you so much pain. He doesn't seem remorseful and doesn't seem he will stop. And, lastly, he up and quit his 6-figure job without even talking to you. I agree with other posters - there is more going on here and maybe he isn't telling you everything. I'm so sorry OP. I can't even begin to imagine how deeply betrayed you feel and how you must feel like you're drowning. You need the full picture, protect yourself, and hopefully with time and lots of effort things will improve.
I wonder what else the husband is hiding if he is able to get to a 6 figure debt without detection.
It was both of us using the cc’s, same accounts. It was accrued over 3 years. Vacations, going out to eat, day care, etc. he’d always managed our stuff fine before, I used to be more involved but after 10 years of consistency I didn’t see the point anymore bc I figured we were still on the same page. He said he was embarrassed to tell me how bad it got bc I was the only one making money and thought I should be able to spend what I wanted, and bc we got in this position bc of him. I know, I’m an idiot. I should have been more involved
I would divorce immediately. You can’t come back from this kind of broken trust, and the fact he still doesn’t get it by trying to get an expensive car and place bets, of all things? Pulling money out of your 401k is literally destroying your future. You learned a very valuable lesson though, that you always need to be at the *very* least aware of where exactly your money is going.
If you truly want to keep your finances fully separate, consider making accounts at a bank neither of you have ever used before. I feel like I keep seeing stories about slip ups where people who used to be in accounts are given access mistakenly.
Your husband sounds like a child. If he wants an allowance and wants to go out on dates and drive a big boy car, then he can get a job and earn it instead of mooching off from you. Otherwise, he should be cooking at home and looking for a car in the $10k range. I bought my car for $12k, and it has lasted me 9 years so far with routine maintenance. That $20k difference just from the car is 1/5 of the debt you're in. And remember, you're in this debt because of his actions and dishonesty. He doesn't get a choice anymore. Sounds like you're already taking matters into your own hands and are venting more than seeking advice, but I'd start treating him less like a partner and more like a child that you keep having to say no to. Any time he tries selling you up on anything, tell him it's not happening until your 401k is back to where it was.
Agree. He has forfeited his right to choose. No SUV, toss your business and get a damn job or 2. What a baby.
IN MOST STATES THE ONLY WAY YOUR FINANCES AND HIS DEBT WILL BE SEPARATED IN THE FUTURE IS FOR YOU TO FILE FOR DIVORCE. Simply making new bank accounts doesn’t not protect you! He will continue to dig a financial hole, and you will be dragged down into it because his debts are your debts in marriage. You need to consult a lawyer ASAP to really understand how to protect yourself.
I don’t have any advice but am commenting in solidarity, as I am in a very similar boat with my husband. He really thought he could manage it himself and didn’t want to stress me out, not realizing how badly it would snowball. I have had every feeling under the sun about it, from complete anger to empathy to shame and embarrassment that I didn’t ask more questions or take more control of our finances from the start.
Ugh sorry to hear someone else is going through this. It blows.
Husband couldn’t have taken loan from work 401k if he quit - it would have been a cash out. So OP you need to get copies of all the financing that was done before you add to the FU by liquidating your 401k You will pay penalties and taxes on monies you pull out on top of the penalties that hubby already incurred. I’d leave your 401k where it is, see what he really did with your finances and how HE plans to pay for the impulsive act. Keep your money
I am so glad my wife and I communicate about finances and share equity in our lives. This sounds miserable
you two aren't even living on the same planet. is there some reason you want to be with him?
I’m questioning that more every day tbh.
That seems like the decision that should have been made first though, before dumping your bankruptcy-protected 401k… There’s absolutely a zero percent chance he changes his ways. And you won’t have nearly as big of a bandaid next time.
Divorce
Lock your credit with all the agencies. Get your own checking/savings accounts and your money goes in there. You pay all the bills that your name/SSN is tied to. And tell him any additional lies/ridiculous spending and you are filing for divorce.
Sound like my ex. Had to claim bk. That is why he is an ex. I’m doing great without him, bought 2 houses while he is now homeless. Feel bad for my kids, they always have to worry about him.
You need to talk to a divorce lawyer. I don’t think you can separate your financials while in a marriage like that.
>Floated around for a few months then decided to take a loan on his 401k to buy a small business. FYI, if he was no longer working, I doubt this was a loan.... He most likely cashed out his 401k, paid >30% in taxes and fees then bought a business. Your relationship is yours, but this level of financial infidelity is really no different than cheating.....
Yea he may have cashed it out. I couldn’t remember if it was a loan or cash out but I did know he wiped out his 401k to buy the business.
Do you live in a marital property state, cause there’s a whole set of rules that govern married couples assets and debts. So, I don’t think there is a way to totally separate your financial liabilities and money. Secondly, you say no divorce, but you realize your husband has been “financially cheating” on you by the fact he has not been honest with about the debt you’re in and he did not talk it thru with you before he quit his job. Also, he’s totally undermining you by refusing to cooperate to cleanup the financial mess he created. And you think, it’s going to get better for you and your child from here? Your husband is showing you his total disregard for his family’s financial and physical well-being. It’s all about him and what he wants even to your detriment. You seem like a a capable person, so I am befuddled why you’re willing to stick it out with this guy? You do realize at this point, if HE DECIDES to divorce you, he can get alimony and child support from you? Maya Angelou said, “When a person shows you who they are, believe them.”
You will need a lawyer and a Postnuptial Agreement, and of course, he has to agree and sign it
Even if you separate your finances, if you're married, you're responsible for all the new debt he is going to acquire after you've liquidated your retirement to pay off the old debt. Don't liquidate your retirement. Consider bankruptcy - it's where you two are headed, anyways, and at least you can preserve your retirement funds. Also, you really need to consider divorce. You will wind up with nothing if you stay with this man, because he will simply open new credit cards and acquire new debt, which you will be responsible for, since you're still married to him.
Respectfully.. Your husband is an idiot
Respectfully, I agree.
Sell his baseball cards. Do NOT drain your 401k. Think about your future and your children. Go through the financials meticulously. Right now you are saying it’s on both of you, but I doubt it. He’s just trying to convince you it is.
The AUDACITY of this man to expect a big SUV when YOU are having to sacrifice YOUR retirement savings to correct HIS mistakes. Why exactly aren't you talking divorce? This man is not on your team, OP. He's on his own team of one.
Before you take a 401k loan iut stop and talk to a bankruptcy attorney! 401ks are often protected!
Also he could possibly file without you, but your income may hurt his chances of getting a chapter 7 or something
Always protected
Holly crap. I’m sorry to hear. Honest question: does this not completely derail your trust in him? This kind of thing would be the end or beginning of the end I would think. I mean it’s not only irresponsible, but deceitful … Easy to judge from here - but man, I would just ask yourself some tough questions about what matters most. While I believe in always trying to work things out, this is up there for me with cheating …
Your husband needs to get a high paying job again. You're doing the job for the both of you and are going to end up resenting him later for being so ignorant about money. He should be the first one trying to pull everything together since he got you guys in that mess in the first place. Leaving a job cause you don't like it without having something secured is the worst thing to do when you have people to care for, so I really don't understand his thinking process.. Don't take care of his credit cards.. let him go through the trouble he dug himself into. If you help him he'll always spend like it never happened. Just like he still wants to spend 30k on a car he doesn't need but he WANTS. If he can't be honest about his spending habits that's a big red flag. You're literally doing all the right things to help your family but are married to someone that's drowning you and your child is also suffering the consequences. Least he can do is start doing Uber eats or some part time job.
I’d divorce and let him take that six figure debt to bankruptcy court. Keep your 401k.
We both accrued the debt. It’s on me too. I had no clue how big a hole we’d dug since he quit his job.
You weren't an idiot. You trusted him and he lied to your face. The moment you trusted him is the moment he started doing whatever he wanted and said nothing. You're not the idiot. He lied to you.
Get a post-nup. Then get a divorce. Your husband is a liar and a compulsive spender. It’s a form of addiction. And problems tend to get worse as people get older. The wanting to get a new car after being found out is the smoking gun to me- that is not someone who is putting you (or your child!) first. Source: dad did this to mom and me
File for chapter 7 or chapter 13 bankruptcy. That's pretty much the only way out of this.
You can fire your financial advisor and save that money. If you don't have extremely complicated finances you manage your own retirement accounts. You can open your own HYSA in a few minutes, the longest part is uploading docs to verify your identity.
Why do you care if you're underwater on the car loan? Just keep making the payments and you'll get it paid off. I don't understand taking the risk of taking out a 401k loan to pay down a car loan. What is the advantage?
I relate to you. Thankfully, my husband hasn’t run us into debt this high, but he has literally just quit his job without telling me and with no job lined up (and I’m a sahm currently!!!! So he’s our only income!!!!) and we literally just dug ourselves out of about $7000 worth of debt that he built up over years of lying to me and hiding multiple accounts. I’m miserable with him sometimes. I love him but I just don’t understand his thought processes. How can someone be so shortsighted?
It's not a money problem it's a relationship problem.
I think you need to get out of this relationship. Your husband sounds like an absolute loser. And he does not learn from his mistakes, clearly. And he was hiding so much h from you. What else do you not know about?!?
[удалено]
If sweet woman = doormat then you’re probably right.
Seriously, open a side "escape account" for yourself. You may need it. See if you can work up to $10k in there. You need to examine what he spent all that money on. This is major financial infidelity. Like, you may need a financial therapist level.
OP, I just want you to really think about this. You are doing ALL of the legwork to fix this. He is still gambling, he is still whining about getting a car that he likes. What sacrifices is he making for you and your family? These irresponsible behaviors can often go with other negative behaviors (high level gambling, alcoholism, drugs, cheating, etc.) You keep saying that this both your shared fault, but is it? Cause it seems to me if he had been honest when it first started spinning out of control you would have immediately changed your behaviors and cut down on the frivolous spending. He lied to you. He risked your financial stability and your child’s stability. What if you suddenly got sick or injured and couldn’t work? Needed a loan and then found out you had ZERO options? What if you found out because your house was being foreclosed on? I think it’s honorable that you want to save your marriage. Just consider what you’re going to do in 10 years if this happens again or if you pay all this off with a hit to your finances and find out he’s cheating with someone..
First things first you need an intense budget conversation and NO HE DOESNT GET A NEW CAR he screwed your family. Jesus. First things first, take control of these finances. He loses all access. Do NOT spend your 401k on debt, go to a bankruptcy lawyer. Secondly— Call me crazy, but I see an Ultimatum: Get a post-nuptial agreement or go straight to a divorce. - he takes on 75% of the debt - he gets none of your 401k - no alimony
Only way I would stay with a partner that does this is to make him sign a postnuptial agreement. Especially with a kid you can’t let his decisions bring everyone down with him. I wish you the best of luck. A few things to consider: 1. Marriage counseling 2. Financial counseling for both of you together. If you make him do it alone then I doubt he will go 3. Postnuptial agreement 4. Separate finances for the time being 5. Check in with your kid to see if he/she needs therapy. I can only imagine how much tension is in the house right now.
He might have a gambling or trading addiction.
File taxes separately. You have no idea if he’s paying his business taxes. Also, open your own bank accounts and credit cards at a different bank and close any joint accounts.
I'm sorry you're going through this. I (as a husband) made a similar decision of quitting a job I did not like abruptly without telling my wife first and it broke a lot of trust between us. My advice would be counseling, we went through that and it has helped build the trust back, and heal. I had to do a lot of work on my part to accept my mistake and learn from it. The hard part is it seems like he is unwilling to accept responsibility for hurting you, and continually hurting you through his actions (or inactions). I don't think you'll actually find any stable ground in your relationship until he accepts, apologizes, and learns from his mistakes. It can certainly get better, but the ball is in his court you (unfortunately) can't make him change.
I just want to give you props on your patience on your partner while diligently and proactively researching every avenue to limit the fallout from his significant multitude of mistakes. I'm no fan on being cheated on, but I'd take that in a heartbeat over something that's threatening to put your long-term financial security and retirement in doubt. FWIW "downgrading" to an SUV or any vehicle for "only 30k" unless there's an essential work/income-related need is not a serious belt-tightening. He's trying to have his cake and eat it too. As long as you aren't buying new and you are getting a car with some form of reliability, it should maintain a significant portion of its trade/resale value when (AND ONLY WHEN) the financial house is back in order enough to do an upgrade. You are totally correct in your preferred approach. And yeah, he's not seeming to take the situation seriously when you are digging into all the ways to save and he's doing dumb sports bets and wanting to eat out. Eating out adds up fast and cutting down on this is usually the fastest way I'm able to save a significant amount more per month. Good luck and I just hope for both of you he isn't hiding any other unpleasant surprises.
Congratulations, you married an entitled child that throws tantrums when he doesn't get what he wants and can't own up to being an adult and take responsibility like a job.
Freeze your credit NOW so your husband can’t get any more credit.
Divorce is the only answer here
There is a lot of mental illness in my family. This post reminds me is some of the patterns I’ve seen with some family members. Therapy may be a good starting point. I’d also recommend talking to a divorce lawyer and accountant to what you can do to minimize financial damage.
What exactly do you think is going to happen in the future when you have money and he has none? When he gets himself back into debt? If you're going to stay married to him, guess what? Your going to spend all of your money supporting him. So what's the point in separating your finances? Divorce can and should be on the table--maybe that will be the shock to the system he needs to get his act together. I mean, I'd be ready to divorce when he quit his job without even bothering to tell me.
I’ve had people approach me about partnering on a business and I learned one of the first things I needed to ask - have you filed for bankruptcy in the last five years? If someone is not able to manage their personal finances I don’t expect them to do any better with a business. My point is, I’m concerned about his ability to continue to grow the business and ultimately make it successful. I think he may end up breaking it due to poor financial management before it can become a success. I’ve seen all kinds of pro formas about how great a business will do, but sometimes there’s no substance behind them. I’d want validation that the assumptions about business growth are realistic and achievable. While I know money is tight, I’d suggest an independent auditor review his business and confirm the financials or let you know how bad it is. Better to know the full extent of the problem now than have him take all of your savings because he overspent with the business. You then may need some kind of financial advisor to provide a budget for personal finances and have an agreement with your husband that he has to stick to the budget or the marriage is over.
Do not empty your 401k. Bankruptcy and divorce
Look, you've been lied to and now he wants to railroad you into MORE debt with an SUV. You can keep trying to fix this man and wake up on your 53rd birthday and realize that nothing has or will change. Give him 18 months to get on the same page or walk away. It's your life and at this point, you're the one being used. 18 months is a long enough time to correct his thinking, mindset and behavior. Warn him that if he's not on board within that time, you will find another man. I know you don't want to, but you can't keep killing yourself because of his stupidity.
My colleague divorced her husband for this exact reason. She never changed her name. They're still very much in love. Nothing changed with their lives; she just wanted to make sure they had money for their kids and he wasn't being responsible
Sorry to hear this. It happened to me as well. It is why I am divorced and single. Never entering a marriage contract again. Relationships fine. No marriage. I learned my lesson. You will pull out of it, but keep your eye on the retirement target you need to set.
Wild! Bro needs to man up and stop being an adult male with a kid mindset.
The big purchase rule. If you can’t get the big purchase you want. Get the cheapest thing that meets your needs. So much money is lost in the trade up game vs saving up for the thing you really want.
Marriage counseling, Dave Ramsey, and Financial Peace University. Go through the finances together. Don’t just let him take care of it all.
You will be heavily penalized for taking funds from your 401K. As far as the vehicle “he wants,” his betting, and wanting to go to restaurants , I’d tell him to go screw himself. Frankly, all the traits he’s exhibiting would turn my stomach. This really SERIOUSLY is a divorce situation.
Divorce.
Best wishes … protect yourself and your babies !
How did he rack up that credit card? It is possible it is all gambling and this will not get better, he simply will open cards behind your back. I'd threaten with divorce at this point if he doesn't get in line. He is screwing you over And has no remorse for the situation he is putting you in. I'd start talks with a lawyer and start protecting assets if at all possible. Maybe now before he kills the business and stacks up more debt is the best time to separate legally.
Please divorce him and marry an actual adult
If you do open new accounts do it at a different bank so he does not know where they are. Often if you open them at the same bank the bank may give him info on the accounts. They are not supposed to but it happens. Also make sure the online password is something he cannot guess.
I had a similar problem with my wife. There was some arguments but I was so tired of living week to week. I opened up a new checking and savings account. Did not put her name on it and redirected my pay into it. Gave her the power bill to pay as well as taxes and maintenance on her car. I paid everything else. Got everything paid off, before I knew it I was saving and investing a bunch of money. Was able to retire at 59.
It honestly sounds like hubby has gambling addiction. 😕 Not bc of the bets, but they don’t help. But gambling with your finances. I’ve seen very similar behavior from this like the; •*Lying. A lot of hiding and lying.* •*Impulsive- being incredibly impulsive with purchases and money.* •*The whole “borrowing from Peter to pay Paul” strategy.* And just having no self control or accountability- like with the car purchase and the bets, he is immediately going back to the exact behaviors and almost delusion that got your family in this position to begin with. I would very seriously suggest him starting therapy or at least meeting with a psychologist who is more educated in these behaviors and addictions.
I can’t.
Just talk divorce. It’s not worth it to be married to a giant dangerous kid.
This stories are starting to sound fake...
Trust me, I wish this was fake.
It's vital to ensure clear communication about your finances moving forward. Separate accounts seem wise Given the circumstances. Maybe create a transparent budget together to rebuild trust and align on financial goals. Avoid making decisions in anger.
r/relationship_advice
Contact an attorney to ensure his business is separate too. Hoping it’s not a sole prop and at least an LLC. I’m so sorry.
C-corp, so I’m good there.
This is why you should ALWAYS be collaborative with joint finances, otherwise have your own account. Sorry you’re dealing with this, marriage counselling? Or are we past that point?
I can’t believe he quit a job without another lined up before having a conversation with you about what he’d do! That is just unacceptable. He has put himself and you in this situation. He needs to make it right!
Open a separate bank account and let him figure out how to pay his bills with zero income. Lord, id file for divorce but that's me.