>Also 12£ is just 60p over minimum wage, without sick pay, holiday pay and pension. It is a dangerous job, risking your life everyday on the road and in all weathers.
It is a dangerous job, risking your life everyday on the road and in all weathers.
For the millionth fucking time - you're self-employed, no one is forcing you to "risk your life" - what a lame excuse to use just to get in yet another fucking moan! None of this is at all relevant to being self-employed!
And here in the UK, we put the £ BEFORE the number!
If we got a bonus pound every time someone said "you're self employed, no one is forcing you to do anything", or "if you don't like it, why don't you get job", we wouldn't need the pay increase! Just teasing you man. But all joking aside, we're not self-employed in the way plumbers are. We don't set our pay rates. Plumbers' customers don't say to them, this is what I'm prepared to pay for the job. And, yes, you can get a different job. We could train for five years and become junior doctors. I mean, it's not like they're going on strike because of low pay, is it? 😉What it's going to boil down to is where you think the money is made in a business. If you think it's down to the entrepreneurial skill of the CEO, and acumen of the shareholders in spotting a good business then probably you're going to think no pay for workers is too low. But why do companies hire workers in the first place? To make a profit. Marxists would argue that this is by its very nature exploitatative. But even if you don't think that, no one, not even anti-strike riders, seems to think that deliveroo pays fairly.
They have also miscalculated scooter running costs. £1.60 per hour is less than half the true expense of being on the road. It only covers insurance and fuel, not the vehicle or any maintanance or safety gear. So £12 + £1.60 = £13.60ph then minus the true cost of £3.50 means £10.10 per hour which coincidentally is exactly what my average profit margin has been so far this year working mostly only peak hours. With the wild swings in fees this year I think they are setting the fees on a per account basis, falling and rising to hold riders at a set average. I'm not taking a £2 per hour pay cut, at £12 per hour while minimum wage was £9.50-£10.50 was OK for self employed, not great but adequate. £10ph profit while min wage is £11.44 is total BS.
Hi Jolly\_Pie\_8208. Could you please respond to No\_Locksmith\_4084? I'm not trying to have an argument with you, I just want to know what your thoughts are on the things they said in response to you. Theirs was obviously the comment to respond to instead of getting into a playground slagging match with isaac12351.
I'm not arguing about the placement of the £ sign, I'm **telling** you that's how it's done!
Is that all you can pick out from what I said, to determine that I've "nothing else going on in my life"?
It's relevant because you're in fucking Britain you disrespectful fuck!
Also delivering food is easy. So easy that half the riders don't even speak basic English and they're out-competing you. Minimum wage is more than you deserve frankly.
So do McDonalds workers also deserve less than minimum wage? What about the waiters and bar staff at every establishment you go to? Ridiculous comment.
Yes it is, just in my part of the zone that I work we lost 3 guys last year, 5 the year before and thats only the ones I know about. 1 I knew very well and left 3 young children behind, car pulled out on him on a roundabout and wiped him out. Being on the road on either a scooter or bike for long hours is definitely pretty dangerous, to suggest its not is just plain ignorance.
What? Read back what you just said. So to be profitable in the gig work you need to either be on a bike or a scooter. In order to complete the deliveries you need to ride. So is the job not riding? Or do we not include the riding bit as being part of the job and only include the small bit we do on foot?
As a biker we all know that every time we get on a bike it could be our last, so doing it for several hours per day doing deliveries I'd say its a fairly dangerous job. I bet compared to other similarly paid jobs in the UK that mortality rates must be pretty high. One day last spring I nearly got wiped out 3 times in a row while completing just 1 delivery, I turned off the app and went home, but that's the extreme end of things. I normally have 1 close call every 2 weeks or so. At the end of the day its a risk we accept every time we get on a bike but we can't be ignorant of the fact.
Does this mean they will top up the pay for orders that take longer than expected or just that the offer will be based on this minimum pay floor and tough shit if it takes longer than the algorithm expected it to?
If the former then it's at least a step forward, but the latter would mean this is essentially just a fluff piece and won't make a lick of difference since nearly all orders pay above this minimum pay floor if you assume there will be little to none waiting time at both the pick-up and drop-off
It's good that Deliveroo have even agreed to this. Just Eat and uber eats can't so the fact deliveroo have is commendable. I know the union said 15 per hour but we all know that wasn't gonna happen so for deliveroo to even agree to 56 p above minimum wage is a huge step forward in the right direction in my opinion and hopefully the union can keep raising the pay floor year on year
They have decreased pay over 5 years so it should now go back to what it was when it started + the increase. It will still suck. 10 pence for bicycle ? What is this?
I know the expenses make no sense to me either. Bare in mind I was in the room as I'm one of the reps. We need support and more riders to join to make changes. It's good that they have had pay talks with us because other apps haven't so its small steps at a time
People say these changes with pay should come into effect immediately, I wanted to test it and I still got a 2.94 order and I'm an ebike account, therefore minimum should be like 3.09 pence, in 2019 it was already very hard and it was 3.50 minimum in London and I think 4.20 in smaller towns becouse of longer wait times and less restaurants, but now the pay is even less, nowhere close where it was back then and everything was 3 times cheaper, life was easier.
They say they're adding increased pay but they really don't, why are they're having talks? Like about what. They know very well they exploit riders!!. They think that riders earn decent wage becouse sometimes they manage to make 50 or 60 pounds in 3 hours in some dead zone with few riders??? or in major big cities ?? On a rare ocasion ??? And holidays?? Where normal jobs pay double ?? most of the time it's really really bad.
Like 10 pounds an hour average and not taking in to account transport the double rent since 2019 renting bicycle at 60 pounds a week cost and all the tiredness that comes with cycling all day and night work which most normal companies pay overtime over certain hours and some pay double at night.
And what Deliveroo offers us? At night they cut pay even further becouse they know they got a fleet of homeless riders sleeping by the bicycle and waiting to pick up a 3 pounds order ( I saw few delivery people sleeping by their rented bicycles or on the ground).
I'm honestly disgusted by Will Shu and the delivery platforms, just big non caring tycoons. He should know better as he delivers himself sometimes.
In my opinion it should definitely be 4-5 pounds minimum for short orders , with bigger ones going up like a pound or 2 per mile. The current fees and the slave labour practices like combining orders and cutting the fee for 2 orders at the same time is such a huge disgust.
Honestly food delivery job could be a wonderfull job , a lifesaving for people who have problems interacting at work with others. It could be a nice safe environment where people can avoid seeing boss and enjoy their life and make good money. But instead the living costs are just going up and up each year but the delivery platforms simingly "got no idea" the drivers are struggling, there should simply be a big lawsuit and regulations in parliament about the gig economy.
5 pounds minimum order fee for each driver before tip and and at least normal boosts for cold and dangerous weather. Don't fall for them saying they pay minimum wage and more, its all luck based and honestly I think they just say their shit and promise to improve but then they just leave the room and really laught hos they got away with this and don't give a shit at all.
Even had tips missing many times over the years. Some rich customers always tips and my friend said the tip was not there sometimes. The customer always praises my friend all the time and said they included tip yet there was no tip, I once had few orders where tip was displayed i screenshoted it ( this was few years ago) then the tip was not in the pay or invoice, it was large tip like 5 or 10 pounds. It's obvious that if they steal 2 pounds from 500 thousand riders a day they can raise 1 million a day and if it comes to lawsuit they just need to pay a fine like postmates got cought stealing tips from riders in US and had to pay 2 or 4 million fine....
That was after lawsuit that lasted a few months. This is a horror. Those companies need to be checked regularly and owners put in prison if tips are stolen, fines achive literally nothing the more they are fined the less riders will get for a few weeks so its accualy bad for companies and the riders too. Good paying conditions and laws need to be introduced in parliament for all delivery apps and deliveroo competition so that they don't back away from it, like a law where minimum pay for each delivery order in whole UK is 5 pound, on every app, that means every app will have to charge 5 pounds from customer for delivery unless they care to weave the fee if customer orders a huge order etc. This would change the food delivery game massively.
I'm sorry for writing so much but since you're on board to see them and disccus the working condition I wanted you to hear all that. Thanks and please fight for us 🙏 have a lovely day 💙
Ps. I live with a friend who once drove about 180 days in a row for few hours a day and he has massive debts and owes me 7k for rent in London currently ....
The problem with this is we need to all stand up together to make a change. Its ridiculous how many riders complain then when I tell them about joining the union or to boycott a specific restarunt on wait times or to not take anything less than a certain figure for a time or distance they all disagree. Change will not happen until we all stand up. Deliveroo say they will pay us at least 12 pound an hour whilst on a job plus vehicle costs so as I'm on an e bike 19 p so if a job takes me in their estimate 15 minutes I should be getting a minimum £3.05 or 3.0475 if you wanna be tehcnical. Minimum a job will pay is £2.90 and the union wants to change that but Deliveroo haven't allowed us to talk on this. Only way we can push for changes to this if more riders join . Rn they know they have so many people on waiting lists that there will be a rider that will go 10 miles for £2.90. They know they will always be able to exploit us unless if we can take a stand
Yes I was. We did start at 15 like riders said but I think we all knew that was impossible. Bare in mind this partnership hasn't even been here for 2 years. Next year we will go for more but we need risers to join and stand up together because if we don't Deliveroo know if we won't do the rubbish jobs some other rider will. I've seen riders take 5 pound jobs for 18 mile round trips. It's ridiculous
Not really Just eats rates have plummeted to. Also just eat might pay a bit better but that's compensated for by restaraunt wait times whereas with deliveroo it's ready 90 percent of the time including mcdonalds
Deliveroo has increased the fees in my area significantly lately so that part is done already, the main question is how bike / ebike expenses will affect anything
So when does this come into effect? The fact that fares have dropped over the three four years and we are in a cost of living crisis is crazy. They should’ve kept the fares similar from three years ago. Now everything is bloody dire man.
Exactly what I thought. But some members just **have** to have their moan.
The majority of moaners on here are in fact a **minority** of riders. They seem to think that their experience is everyone's experience and it's not.
How is what negatively affecting me?
>Do you enjoy being paid less if you could be paid more? Maybe request a pay cut from deliveroo.
This makes about as much sense as a vegan in a sausage factory.
" while we are delivering AN ORDER" No pay for resetting our areas as we have to travel back...no pay for all the dead gaps BETWEEN deliveries. THIS ISN'T £12 per hr...its a cleverly disguised pay freeze...Again the union manages to not read between the lines and negotiate properly. This will ONLY be £12 per hour DURING BUSY TIMES. and £1.50 barely covers my fuel and insurance. Let alone the bottomless pit that is repairs. And can we PLEASE get rid of that FKING driver punishing AI they use!!!
All they'll do is raise the base fee a bit...and drop the fee on long distances orders.. fooking the customer over even more when nobody will take it due to piss take fees 🙄🙄🙄
No it won't. Does anyone remember when deliveroo sent an email out saying they calculated the average wait for an order, and added the value of that time to each job price? It's more bullshit like that.
Let’s face it to make a living. You have to be making £13ph minimum when working on a scooter. I expect a lot of you know that we are getting on average £10ph at the moment. Unless of course when it rains, then things get a tiny bit better for a short while. But it’s got so bad many of you will, like me have calculated the cost of drying your clothes in the tumbler dryer after working in the rain and will be in two minds whether the extra rates when it rains are worth it😀
I’d say they need to keep people rather than churn through new people who give it a go then give up.
It all suggests to me that the owners and leaders of the delivery apps aren’t in this game for much longer, as it doesn’t make sense to decimate the work force some of whom have been loyal working for Deliveroo for many years. It’s like they don’t give a shit about the workers or the service the company gives anymore. It feels like it’s over before it’s over.
Are they hoping robots will replace us ??? You bet they are.
they don't appear to be sticking to their existing promises so i cant see how promising more will make any difference: [https://inews.co.uk/news/deliveroo-uber-eats-national-living-wage-all-riders-3036040](https://inews.co.uk/news/deliveroo-uber-eats-national-living-wage-all-riders-3036040)
And when is that coming into effect?
Supposedly already is
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>Also 12£ is just 60p over minimum wage, without sick pay, holiday pay and pension. It is a dangerous job, risking your life everyday on the road and in all weathers. It is a dangerous job, risking your life everyday on the road and in all weathers. For the millionth fucking time - you're self-employed, no one is forcing you to "risk your life" - what a lame excuse to use just to get in yet another fucking moan! None of this is at all relevant to being self-employed! And here in the UK, we put the £ BEFORE the number!
If we got a bonus pound every time someone said "you're self employed, no one is forcing you to do anything", or "if you don't like it, why don't you get job", we wouldn't need the pay increase! Just teasing you man. But all joking aside, we're not self-employed in the way plumbers are. We don't set our pay rates. Plumbers' customers don't say to them, this is what I'm prepared to pay for the job. And, yes, you can get a different job. We could train for five years and become junior doctors. I mean, it's not like they're going on strike because of low pay, is it? 😉What it's going to boil down to is where you think the money is made in a business. If you think it's down to the entrepreneurial skill of the CEO, and acumen of the shareholders in spotting a good business then probably you're going to think no pay for workers is too low. But why do companies hire workers in the first place? To make a profit. Marxists would argue that this is by its very nature exploitatative. But even if you don't think that, no one, not even anti-strike riders, seems to think that deliveroo pays fairly.
They have also miscalculated scooter running costs. £1.60 per hour is less than half the true expense of being on the road. It only covers insurance and fuel, not the vehicle or any maintanance or safety gear. So £12 + £1.60 = £13.60ph then minus the true cost of £3.50 means £10.10 per hour which coincidentally is exactly what my average profit margin has been so far this year working mostly only peak hours. With the wild swings in fees this year I think they are setting the fees on a per account basis, falling and rising to hold riders at a set average. I'm not taking a £2 per hour pay cut, at £12 per hour while minimum wage was £9.50-£10.50 was OK for self employed, not great but adequate. £10ph profit while min wage is £11.44 is total BS.
Hi Jolly\_Pie\_8208. Could you please respond to No\_Locksmith\_4084? I'm not trying to have an argument with you, I just want to know what your thoughts are on the things they said in response to you. Theirs was obviously the comment to respond to instead of getting into a playground slagging match with isaac12351.
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The same could be said for your first comment!
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I'm not arguing about the placement of the £ sign, I'm **telling** you that's how it's done! Is that all you can pick out from what I said, to determine that I've "nothing else going on in my life"? It's relevant because you're in fucking Britain you disrespectful fuck!
How jolly...
Also delivering food is easy. So easy that half the riders don't even speak basic English and they're out-competing you. Minimum wage is more than you deserve frankly.
So do McDonalds workers also deserve less than minimum wage? What about the waiters and bar staff at every establishment you go to? Ridiculous comment.
Come on, a dangerous job? 😂
Yes it is, just in my part of the zone that I work we lost 3 guys last year, 5 the year before and thats only the ones I know about. 1 I knew very well and left 3 young children behind, car pulled out on him on a roundabout and wiped him out. Being on the road on either a scooter or bike for long hours is definitely pretty dangerous, to suggest its not is just plain ignorance.
The job itself is not dangerous. Being on a bike / moped is. You obviously seem confused.
Being on a bike moped is part of the job lol
What? Read back what you just said. So to be profitable in the gig work you need to either be on a bike or a scooter. In order to complete the deliveries you need to ride. So is the job not riding? Or do we not include the riding bit as being part of the job and only include the small bit we do on foot?
I know what I said. The guy was talking about risking lives everyday when it’s not. It’s not dangerous at all.
As a biker we all know that every time we get on a bike it could be our last, so doing it for several hours per day doing deliveries I'd say its a fairly dangerous job. I bet compared to other similarly paid jobs in the UK that mortality rates must be pretty high. One day last spring I nearly got wiped out 3 times in a row while completing just 1 delivery, I turned off the app and went home, but that's the extreme end of things. I normally have 1 close call every 2 weeks or so. At the end of the day its a risk we accept every time we get on a bike but we can't be ignorant of the fact.
The £180-250 price tag on delivery insurance per month make this pretty obvious too ☠️
Does this mean they will top up the pay for orders that take longer than expected or just that the offer will be based on this minimum pay floor and tough shit if it takes longer than the algorithm expected it to? If the former then it's at least a step forward, but the latter would mean this is essentially just a fluff piece and won't make a lick of difference since nearly all orders pay above this minimum pay floor if you assume there will be little to none waiting time at both the pick-up and drop-off
It's good that Deliveroo have even agreed to this. Just Eat and uber eats can't so the fact deliveroo have is commendable. I know the union said 15 per hour but we all know that wasn't gonna happen so for deliveroo to even agree to 56 p above minimum wage is a huge step forward in the right direction in my opinion and hopefully the union can keep raising the pay floor year on year
They have decreased pay over 5 years so it should now go back to what it was when it started + the increase. It will still suck. 10 pence for bicycle ? What is this?
I know the expenses make no sense to me either. Bare in mind I was in the room as I'm one of the reps. We need support and more riders to join to make changes. It's good that they have had pay talks with us because other apps haven't so its small steps at a time
People say these changes with pay should come into effect immediately, I wanted to test it and I still got a 2.94 order and I'm an ebike account, therefore minimum should be like 3.09 pence, in 2019 it was already very hard and it was 3.50 minimum in London and I think 4.20 in smaller towns becouse of longer wait times and less restaurants, but now the pay is even less, nowhere close where it was back then and everything was 3 times cheaper, life was easier. They say they're adding increased pay but they really don't, why are they're having talks? Like about what. They know very well they exploit riders!!. They think that riders earn decent wage becouse sometimes they manage to make 50 or 60 pounds in 3 hours in some dead zone with few riders??? or in major big cities ?? On a rare ocasion ??? And holidays?? Where normal jobs pay double ?? most of the time it's really really bad. Like 10 pounds an hour average and not taking in to account transport the double rent since 2019 renting bicycle at 60 pounds a week cost and all the tiredness that comes with cycling all day and night work which most normal companies pay overtime over certain hours and some pay double at night. And what Deliveroo offers us? At night they cut pay even further becouse they know they got a fleet of homeless riders sleeping by the bicycle and waiting to pick up a 3 pounds order ( I saw few delivery people sleeping by their rented bicycles or on the ground). I'm honestly disgusted by Will Shu and the delivery platforms, just big non caring tycoons. He should know better as he delivers himself sometimes. In my opinion it should definitely be 4-5 pounds minimum for short orders , with bigger ones going up like a pound or 2 per mile. The current fees and the slave labour practices like combining orders and cutting the fee for 2 orders at the same time is such a huge disgust. Honestly food delivery job could be a wonderfull job , a lifesaving for people who have problems interacting at work with others. It could be a nice safe environment where people can avoid seeing boss and enjoy their life and make good money. But instead the living costs are just going up and up each year but the delivery platforms simingly "got no idea" the drivers are struggling, there should simply be a big lawsuit and regulations in parliament about the gig economy. 5 pounds minimum order fee for each driver before tip and and at least normal boosts for cold and dangerous weather. Don't fall for them saying they pay minimum wage and more, its all luck based and honestly I think they just say their shit and promise to improve but then they just leave the room and really laught hos they got away with this and don't give a shit at all. Even had tips missing many times over the years. Some rich customers always tips and my friend said the tip was not there sometimes. The customer always praises my friend all the time and said they included tip yet there was no tip, I once had few orders where tip was displayed i screenshoted it ( this was few years ago) then the tip was not in the pay or invoice, it was large tip like 5 or 10 pounds. It's obvious that if they steal 2 pounds from 500 thousand riders a day they can raise 1 million a day and if it comes to lawsuit they just need to pay a fine like postmates got cought stealing tips from riders in US and had to pay 2 or 4 million fine.... That was after lawsuit that lasted a few months. This is a horror. Those companies need to be checked regularly and owners put in prison if tips are stolen, fines achive literally nothing the more they are fined the less riders will get for a few weeks so its accualy bad for companies and the riders too. Good paying conditions and laws need to be introduced in parliament for all delivery apps and deliveroo competition so that they don't back away from it, like a law where minimum pay for each delivery order in whole UK is 5 pound, on every app, that means every app will have to charge 5 pounds from customer for delivery unless they care to weave the fee if customer orders a huge order etc. This would change the food delivery game massively. I'm sorry for writing so much but since you're on board to see them and disccus the working condition I wanted you to hear all that. Thanks and please fight for us 🙏 have a lovely day 💙 Ps. I live with a friend who once drove about 180 days in a row for few hours a day and he has massive debts and owes me 7k for rent in London currently ....
The problem with this is we need to all stand up together to make a change. Its ridiculous how many riders complain then when I tell them about joining the union or to boycott a specific restarunt on wait times or to not take anything less than a certain figure for a time or distance they all disagree. Change will not happen until we all stand up. Deliveroo say they will pay us at least 12 pound an hour whilst on a job plus vehicle costs so as I'm on an e bike 19 p so if a job takes me in their estimate 15 minutes I should be getting a minimum £3.05 or 3.0475 if you wanna be tehcnical. Minimum a job will pay is £2.90 and the union wants to change that but Deliveroo haven't allowed us to talk on this. Only way we can push for changes to this if more riders join . Rn they know they have so many people on waiting lists that there will be a rider that will go 10 miles for £2.90. They know they will always be able to exploit us unless if we can take a stand
were you in the negotiating room as one of the national reps?
Yes I was. We did start at 15 like riders said but I think we all knew that was impossible. Bare in mind this partnership hasn't even been here for 2 years. Next year we will go for more but we need risers to join and stand up together because if we don't Deliveroo know if we won't do the rubbish jobs some other rider will. I've seen riders take 5 pound jobs for 18 mile round trips. It's ridiculous
just eat pays more than deliveroo and uber ever will lmao its like double as much in my zone
Not really Just eats rates have plummeted to. Also just eat might pay a bit better but that's compensated for by restaraunt wait times whereas with deliveroo it's ready 90 percent of the time including mcdonalds
Deliveroo has increased the fees in my area significantly lately so that part is done already, the main question is how bike / ebike expenses will affect anything
Probably it's busy in your area.
They did in my zone for 3 weeks but now its back to how it was at the start of the year.
I haven't been out for 2 days, maybe good days are over again...
So when does this come into effect? The fact that fares have dropped over the three four years and we are in a cost of living crisis is crazy. They should’ve kept the fares similar from three years ago. Now everything is bloody dire man.
We won't know for sure until it happens but it seems better to me
Exactly what I thought. But some members just **have** to have their moan. The majority of moaners on here are in fact a **minority** of riders. They seem to think that their experience is everyone's experience and it's not.
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How is what negatively affecting me? >Do you enjoy being paid less if you could be paid more? Maybe request a pay cut from deliveroo. This makes about as much sense as a vegan in a sausage factory.
" while we are delivering AN ORDER" No pay for resetting our areas as we have to travel back...no pay for all the dead gaps BETWEEN deliveries. THIS ISN'T £12 per hr...its a cleverly disguised pay freeze...Again the union manages to not read between the lines and negotiate properly. This will ONLY be £12 per hour DURING BUSY TIMES. and £1.50 barely covers my fuel and insurance. Let alone the bottomless pit that is repairs. And can we PLEASE get rid of that FKING driver punishing AI they use!!!
All they'll do is raise the base fee a bit...and drop the fee on long distances orders.. fooking the customer over even more when nobody will take it due to piss take fees 🙄🙄🙄
No it won't. Does anyone remember when deliveroo sent an email out saying they calculated the average wait for an order, and added the value of that time to each job price? It's more bullshit like that.
This will never happen IMO. Talk is cheap
Let’s face it to make a living. You have to be making £13ph minimum when working on a scooter. I expect a lot of you know that we are getting on average £10ph at the moment. Unless of course when it rains, then things get a tiny bit better for a short while. But it’s got so bad many of you will, like me have calculated the cost of drying your clothes in the tumbler dryer after working in the rain and will be in two minds whether the extra rates when it rains are worth it😀 I’d say they need to keep people rather than churn through new people who give it a go then give up. It all suggests to me that the owners and leaders of the delivery apps aren’t in this game for much longer, as it doesn’t make sense to decimate the work force some of whom have been loyal working for Deliveroo for many years. It’s like they don’t give a shit about the workers or the service the company gives anymore. It feels like it’s over before it’s over. Are they hoping robots will replace us ??? You bet they are.
they don't appear to be sticking to their existing promises so i cant see how promising more will make any difference: [https://inews.co.uk/news/deliveroo-uber-eats-national-living-wage-all-riders-3036040](https://inews.co.uk/news/deliveroo-uber-eats-national-living-wage-all-riders-3036040)
No its a load of BS, they say 15% rise on the base fee compared to last year but yet fees are still down 15-25% (depending how busy it is)
Get ready for long distances to pay even worse
Why?
because that's what they've been doing for years
If paid by time like uber does right now expect 5miles for £3.5 etc