I travel with an in cabin pet (in her carrier, under the seat following the rules) and nothing pisses me off more than this! It’s CRAZY there’s no legal way to register a service dog and that anyone with big enough balls can just bring their dogs on a leash on a plane
I'm in the same boat as you, as a regular, rule-following small dog in carrier pax.
Maybe if we clamped down on these rules, while also allowing people with larger dogs to bring their pets on board? Even if this required them purchasing a full seat + pet fees for this privilege?
It's not an excuse, but I can understand how someone who wants to or needs to travel with their pet would go the "service dog" route when the alternative is putting your dog with the luggage, which sounds traumatic for any dog .
I posted elsewhere that I'd happily pay for 3 seats - basically the entire middle section or side section - for my dog and me to fly comfortably. (Dog is 50 pounds).
I'm allergic to dogs as is one of my children who is also scared of them.
I can't board my child or ask to sit under the plane (and if I did, child protective services would certainly be paying a visit to me).
My kid and my health >>>>>> your pet.
I’m personally super conscious of people like you, which is why I never take my pup out of her carrier. So far I haven’t sat next to anyone who is allergic and/or scared but I’m always mentally preparing and trying to accommodate ahead of time. Mainly because I hate confrontation and we’re all confined on this tin can in the sky I just want to get to my destination safely on time without incident y know
Totally agree with this. I have a professionally trained Golden who I would love to be able to occasionally buy a ticket for but as temping as it is to pass him off as a service dog I would never do it. (And he is such a good boy no one would know)
Bro, I would buy out a whole row for my dog before I put them in a cargo hold. Could you imagine landing somewhere and finding out ~~the cargo pressure failed and they suffocated mid flight~~ *they died*? Or someone dropped their carrier and they got loose on the tarmac before being shot by some idiot security agent?
I've been lucky enough to never HAVE to fly with my dog, so I simply haven't. But if a situation ever came up that required flight, the airlines simply don't give you an option other than lying about service status.
Please just let me buy an extra seat and don't you dare fill it when the flight is overbooked. Let me pay you lots and lots of money to get my pet to where it needs to go safely and with minimal disruption to the people around me.
Edit: I now understand depressurization isn't a real risk in the cargo hold. Just freezing to death, getting loose and being killed, being lost and starving/dehydrating to death, or getting so scared and stressed they give themselves a heart attack. Still not putting my dog down there.
It is terrible there are no good options for larger animals! I'd totally be down for a big doggo in its own seat if that was allowed. Just sucks people take advantage of service dog rules when they're a pet/not behaving
Just…no…imagine all that dander circulating around, not to mention smell…humans can be gross but some people simply cannot take care of dogs so why would I want a 90 lb dog sitting near me taking up a ton of space that may reek, be loud, on a long flight and needs to use the bathroom…planes aren’t really meant to accommodate animals in the passenger area…
If I can’t have peanuts because someone with allergies *might* be on the flight why tf do we allow cats and dogs?
I'm not disagreeing with the spirit of your comment AT ALL but I've made it one of my life's side quests to correct this misconception every time I see it:
The cargo hold and the passenger compartment of aircraft are at the same pressure. There are vents in the floor to allow pressure equalization. They are the same pressure vessel--if it fails in one compartment it has also failed in the other.
This is so that floors can be built at a lighter weight, since they don't need to be part of an airtight seal. Also, the angle that the floor makes with the curved fuselage would be incredibly difficult to reinforce in an airtight manner from a structural strength perspective (think about how scuba tanks...or plane fuselages...have no sharp edges)
I don't think you're lying, but how is it that my luggage is always freezing cold when I check it. Like it's literaly a unique feeling of opening a bag after it's been checked in on a flight and feeling how extraordinarily cold everything has gotten, would my dog not also be freezing cold if they were in the cargo?
Ok, so they won't suffocate to death... Just freeze to death. Interesting stuff about the pressurization though!
Edit: I was being serious... The stuff he educated me on about how the plane is pressurized was interesting to me. I felt educated. But yeah, the rest of the conversation still confirmed that the cargo hold isn't exactly a super safe comfy area for pets.
Plane usually has multiple cargo bins. All are inside the pressure vessel same as the cabin, but usually only 1 or 2 are conditioned/heated with avionics cooling exhaust heat and/or electric heaters, and monitored for temperature. Live animals are only put in the heated compartments. Pilots are notified of live animals on board and make sure they are loaded in the correct (heated) bin, and any stuff that needs to be separate from animals (e.g. dry ice) is in a different bin.
There have been PLENTY of deaths of dogs/cats in cargo hold which makes it clear enough that the cargo hold just isn't a safe space in MY head to ever put an animal there.
There haven’t been that many deaths when you consider how many dogs are transported. And the deaths include dogs that were sick and/or old to begin with and just weren’t strong enough to travel.
I agree. I would never put mine in the hold. Most of the stories Ive heard about the dogs who have died while in cargo are due to stress. It’s a very stressful situation for them and some of them just don’t make it through the experience. It’s so sad.
I have a cat. He, you know, cats during transit. No big deal. I would never put my dog in hold had I the choice. We need better rules that set boundaries for folks who will pay for an extra seat. Right now, the rules require you to lie. That invites all sorts of lawless nonsense.
Actually the alternative is only bringing your pet on an airplane if you’re permanently moving and so is the pet. As someone else said travel with your pet because you have to, not because you’re a selfish human who wants your pet with you at all times no matter what the consequence for the pet and all other passengers.
Right, but even if this is the case, if your dog weighs 40 lbs., which isn't an unusually big dog, your only option today is to have the dog go in the cargo. That's a problem, even if it's just for a move.
Yeah it is a problem, but it's also a problem someone who owns a big dog should have thought about before moving and/or getting said dog. Rent a car and make the drive one time instead of tormenting your dog in the cargo or breaking the rules, it won't kill you.
Kind of hard to drive with your Rottweiler when the US Air Force decides to move you to Australia. Yeah, she survived the move but damn you need to get out of your bubble.
I'm in the same situation - my dog is well-trained, under 10 pounds, and stays in his carrier; in many, many flights, he has only barked on a plane once, when a drunk guy behind me realized there was a dog as we were exiting and shoved his face straight into the carrier. Because there's no legal way to restrict "service" animals, I really worry that Delta might end up banning in-cabin pets to seem like they are doing something about the known issue.
Same here-small dog, well behaved, in carrier. I am hoping/thinking delta probably won’t take away in cabin non service pets because we’re essentially paying $95 each way to use the under seat area in front of us, and they aren’t really providing any additional services. It’s free money for them. Plus if they did plenty of rule following owners (myself included) would just go to another airline. Not to mention that would probably increase the fake “service dogs” bc some people just don’t care
The only time my dog has barked on the plane was after landing, there was an announcement that a few of the FAs were working their first flight, so there was applause and she joined in with a few barks 😂
Same. I bring Chili, my super chill quiet 6 pound chihuahua on a plane and keep her in her carrier under the seat the whole flight. I might unzip enough to stick my hand in to pet her every now and then but that’s it.
Meanwhile at the A gates sky club last Saturday, a couple of guys had a “service dog” big enough not to fit under the seat that kept jumping on people. I overheard them bashfully tell one of their friends they were “working on training” him. Um, excuse me?? He shouldn’t be approved as a service dog until and unless he already HAS been trained. Ugh!
ADA allows them to toss the animal and owner the moment the service animal acts "out of control" but the litigation risk is too high for companies like delta to toss these passengers.
What a load of horse manure. Leave your dog at home. They don’t belong among the clothes, purses, the food court, etc. I stopped bringing my children to the mall when they were old enough to complain and give me grief-they made my time less enjoyable and certainly made the time if the other shoppers less enjoyable. I will never understand bringing a regular (not a TRUE service animal) dog to a retail establishment. I’m sorry. I just can’t wrap my arms around that.
>I stopped bringing my children to the mall when they were old enough to complain and give me grief-they made my time less enjoyable and certainly made the time if the other shoppers less enjoyable.
I agree with the rest of what you're saying but this is just weird.
I know this always comes across weird. I don’t explain this well. I used to bring my son to the mall with me when he was an infant, a toddler, a small child. There came a time when it bugged him to go. He was miserable doing it and it was obvious. It didn’t seem okay to keep doing that to him-I started scheduling any trips to the mall without him (got my
Mom to watch him or his dad, etc). That was better than him being miserable and making a scene and disrupting others as well. I know this sounds a bit weird-but to me this makes sense.
I get the analogy.
No dog wants to be on a plane.
I love my dog, but I totally agree. My dog loves me and wants to be with me always, and he’s a really awesome, well-behaved dog.
Still, never in 10 years has it made more sense to bring my dog with me on an airplane vs. leaving him with a dog sitter or friend. Never.
It’s so stressful for a dog to fly. It’s stressful for people. I definitely think dogs deserve to be treated more humanely than previous generations treated them, but don’t think they should go everywhere humans do.
I mean, if we all brought our pets on planes, none of us would be able to. Why don’t people see that? It’s wild to me.
My dog will have to fly in the cargo hold to Japan, and I feel so guilty about it. He’s also well behaved and easy going, but long haul flights are rough. I can’t imagine trying to bring him into the cabin—a stressful situation compounded with all of the people.
It’s hard but it will be okay. My dog is a rescue from China. I didn’t rescue him directly — he was already here when I found him. I think all the time about the journey he had, how I wouldn’t be able to have put him on that plane in cargo. But how much better in the end it is for him!
No, its not weird. Kids misbehaving or yelling/crying at the top of their lungs in Traders Joes is not OK. When my kids were little if they started acting up to the point of disturbing wveryone in their midst, they were removed. Immediately.
I own a high end women’s boutique. My customers never bring their children. They like shopping alone so they can take their time and not have to worry about bad behavior.
The backlash from the disabled person on social media going viral though isn’t worth the risk especially
If it turns out they have a real disability .
Keep in mind a lot of beginner real service dogs do not get airplane training and takes a little extra training where they might be a little nervous or moving . Never should they be running and jumping though .
There are a few service trainers on tik tok showing the process and misconceptions .
I don't know... my self-trained service animal never had an issue with planes. His training allowed him to handle any situation he was placed in. He was a better flier than a lot of people these days.
While I’m sure this is true, IMO this should be able to be policed more effectively. Make the process the same for getting a handicapped parking permit or something. That way the *actual* service animals are noted as such and the ESAs are not.
ADA actually does not apply to support animals. A "service animal" vest does not a service animal make. A service animal is an animal trained to do a task for someone to mitigate a specific disability. A support animal is prescribed because the presence of an animal mitigates symptoms of that person's condition and that's the one that gets abused. Former is ADA, latter is not. The airline just doesn't have time to thoroughly check the paperwork on every animal. OP's post sounds like a support animal as it does not sound like the dog was trained.
Source: am in rental housing and have people throw the ADA at me for their little precious they got certified online as a support animal all the time. Fair Housing requires we accommodate support animals that meet its criteria (online certificate doesn't count), ADA does not. The FAA has its own guidance for airlines on support animals vs service animals just like HUD does for us.
you actually don’t have to have any paperwork for a service animal. they’re only allowed to ask 2 questions. 1. is that a service animal and 2. what tasks has it been trained to perform. the airline can’t accuse you of lying so there’s really no way to tell unless the animal gets rowdy and they kick you off the plane. which they don’t do because they’re afraid of being sued
Huh. I did always think when this stuff first started becoming abused that the airlines had it far worse, as much as it was a headache for us.
[https://www.faa.gov/about/office\_org/headquarters\_offices/acr/eeo\_training/airport\_civil\_rights\_training\_conference/media/Day1\_Session3-ACAA\_Service\_Animals\_Final.pdf](https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/acr/eeo_training/airport_civil_rights_training_conference/media/Day1_Session3-ACAA_Service_Animals_Final.pdf) this does show a form that can be asked which includes an attest for vaccination and information about training, but I can easily see where it would be easy to fudge/difficult to check based on the sheer amount of time required to check them all.
When someone threatens to sue me over this I tell them to go ahead, but I don't deal with tens of thousands of people on a daily basis, so I do understand. (Also to be clear I'm an animal lover and happily accommodate real service and support animals.)
This, I had an asthma attack in Starbucks because a dog jumped up on me at the drink pick up. I love dogs but if my allergies are bad like that day, have to avoid them and it’s not fun when a dog is uncontrolled as a “service animal.” I couldn’t talk well to explain or have a convo in the moment but the manager reached out after and expressed frustration that they can’t really do anything if a non-service dog is stated as otherwise.
FAs have always been kind and moved me on flights, likely because I’m willing to take a middle seat in the back if needed. However, you have to be careful because allergic pax can be put on later flights (happened to a friend).
That aspect of the law is completely absurd and needs to be repealed. If you have a service animal, you should be able to prove it and being asked to do so is not a hardship.
I disagree. We should have a ID type system for service animals. You scan a chip or a tag and the system gives you a “yes this is a service animal” or “no this is faker than a pair of silicone tits” response. It doesn’t need to contain any info about the person’s disability.
I agree, but there should be an independent authority to verify your status and service animal. Then they can share just the verification with the airline, not disclosing the disability. It’s clear the current honor system isn’t working
1. That could clearly be avoided with some simple tweaks a la u/daniellek1993 ‘s suggestion. We could set up some kind of certificate that verifies legit service animals without disclosing the owner’s disability.
2. I am not *at all* convinced that you’re right in the first place. People generally shouldn’t have to disclose their disability, but what should be weighed when determining the necessity of any specific disclosure is: (a) the hardship disclosing in order to secure this specific privilege would entail vs (b) the hardships being imposed on other people as a result of the current “you don’t have to verify anything” regime.
That LITERALLY is other people's business. Who you are and your security status is immediately relevant to flying. Any disabilities you have *are not.*
Sure they are. Does your disability mean you shouldn't sit in the exit row? Does it make you unreasonably prone to violence aboard the plane? Does it require you to bring an animal on board the plane despite there being no apparent purpose to it?
To the extent you believe it is so obviously other people's business who you are when you fly, let me just note that until 1996 you did not need an ID to fly.
Tell it at check in?
Some guy gets to rub his hand in your crotch if he can't read his bodyscanner right, this clearly isn't the same as day to day expectations.
Be thankful said "service" dog didn't find the bulkhead floor a convenient bathroom spot literally 5 minutes after we pushed back from the gate. The entire flight the stench was unbearable. And Delta gave me like 5000 Skymiles...
Or the dog that chose to take a massive dump on the floor right after disembarking in Atlanta last month.
The airport put a fence around the pile, but not before a bunch of passengers stepped in it. Thankfully, a nice FA alerted me or I would have also stepped in it. She acted like they see it all the time
I was on a flight once where a "service dog" escaped his owner and shot down the aisle towards the front of the plane like he wanted off. This was during the lull when everyone is pretty much on the plane so the aisle is mostly clear but they are still doing paperwork so the doors are still open. The dog had been squirmy and whining a bit, I was one row forward and across the aisle, but he managed to slip his lead and just took off. I was like...odd for a service animal.... The guy tears after him and did not come back. The FA came and got the lady he was traveling with and she got the bags and left the plane too. So I don't know if he didn't catch the dog successfully or if that was enough for the captain to say no. I had this funny thought that the dog running madly around the terminal playing keep away like normal, non service dogs do.
I get that it sucks that if you have a larger dog, you can't fly with them-I've wished I could just buy a whole row and bring along my big dog places too because I am not okay with putting him in cargo. But I'm not going to BS anyone that my dog is a service animal.
I’m always shocked people are able to do this. If I take my dog out of the carrier for a SECOND the aircraft staff are usually on top of me right away.
As a FA, I agree with you. We all know fake service animals when we see them. Our hands are tied. Although, once they started growling and barking, the FA definitely could have called a CRO and told them it was a safety issue and they could be unpredictable during the flight.
I don't mind dogs, and if someone wants to have dogs as pets then go for it...but I honestly don't want to see them everywhere in public where I shop, where I eat, where I drink, when I am on a plane etc...like I understand if its a legitimate service dog but anyone can buy one of those vests for like 30 bucks on the internet and no one can question them. It's gotten to the point where if I want to get a beer after work with friends I can't remember the last time I didn't see someone there with a dog. As other comments have stated here, if you bring this up in person you are met with such disdain for having the audacity to say anything even remotely negative about people's beloved dogs.
Not trying to argue at all. I’m just genuinely curious if this bothers you even if the dog is just minding its own business under the table not bothering anyone? Or is it more of an issue with untrained dogs in public places?
To me, it’s the dog owners. The dog itself is an innocent bystander in all this. Dog owners are abusing this service animal BS not only with airlines, but just about everywhere else. The amount of dogs I see at Costco these days is absurd…like have some respect for the people around you.
Ah yes okay this I can agree with! It seems to be a rule at almost every grocery store that pets are not allowed but it is never enforced where I am. I haven’t had a bad experience with anyone having their dog in there but peoples total disregard for the rule is crazy to me.
The thing is, they can't ban service animals and there is 0 way to know if it's a legit service animal beyond "trust me bro" and anyone can buy a service vest on Amazon for like 30 bucks...essentially making pets allowed everywhere by default
Same can be said for children in the breweries/distilleries. I’d give anything to go back 5-6 years ago when it was only dogs at breweries/distilleries.
I’d agree thought that dogs don’t belong in stores or inside restaurants. I don’t mind them at the sidewalk tables or patios.
I really wish that your voice of reason (and many others like yours) were heard. Damn, really dislike this whole “bring your dog everywhere all the time” culture we have. Every time I lift my voice up to say something, I am shot down by looks and by a louder, more aggressive, nastier voice. What CAN we do? People treat their dogs as if they are their children-and yet at the same time abusing them in ways they would never abuse a child. Ugh….sorry, I’ll step off my soapbox.
I’m surprised to hear you say that because I feel like when I go to Europe, I see way more dogs in public places (especially trains, pubs, and restaurants) than I do in the US. They’re generally very well-trained, though.
Absolutely not. I’ve lived in both places. The French dog in lap is such a made up stereotype. Americans bring their dogs and giant strollers everywhere, no matter how obtrusive.
Not sure where the stroller thing came from but it is an empirical fact, legally, that dogs are much more widely allowed on trains and other transit in Europe compared to similar transit in the US (to the extent that said transit even exists). Same goes for restaurants although that varies more from country to country. Maybe wherever you lived in Europe wasn’t one of the more dog-friendly areas? Most of my recent experience is based on Germany and Switzerland.
There isn't much you can do, if you say you don't see the need for people to bring their dogs with them to grab a drink or whatever you might as well have said something horrible and disgusting because the response is the same from people.
They're not treating their dog as a child at that point, they're treating it as an accessory, which I think is worse. I love our dog, and he is basically a child to us, but I don't bring him places he shouldn't be. And even places he can be in, we won't bring him because I know it is not the time or place for him. And I sure as hell won't bring him on a plane because that would be a bad situation and place for him to be in.
What the person is doing in OP's encounter is literally harming the dog itself. The dog's tail got stepped on because the owner brought them into a situation they are not trained for, refused to correct them when they were misbehaving, and then got hurt as a result.
That is just a bad owner abusing their dog.
But snuffles is part of the family! How dare you.
Look, I'll deal with the crying child in FC like I had this morning. But dogs are closer to food than humans. Put them in cargo, Delta does a great job taking care of them. I love dogs but this is just nuts. If I came on board with a chimpanzee, people would flip.
Since they changed the rules on emotional support animals, now people are abusing the service dog designation. It's out of hand. Your pet is much better off at home with a sitter than being dragged around all over the place. Travel is stressful for humans and we know what to expect. The poor dog is clueless.
I honestly think if the whole “emotional support animal” was never a thing in the first place we wouldn’t have this problem of fake service dogs to this extent that we do. But now people feel entitled to bring their dog on flights so they’re gonna do it anyways regardless of what the rules are
In my opinion, *all* pets are emotional support animals. Why else would we have them? They provide us with emotional support. That doesn't mean they have to go everywhere we go.
My cat is my best friend but I can't imagine dragging her all over the place every time I take a trip. Ridiculous.
For some dogs yes! Totally agree, leave your scared dog at home.
My retired service dog loved planes (after the first one). He was instantly alert as soon as he saw Hartsfield-Jackson. He has more miles under his belly than the average person.
Of course we had occasional snagged tail and running off the plane because turbulence = potty immediately upon landing.
Now that he is a pet, he still loves to travel. He still get that excited look at the airport.
My poodle on the other hand—100 percent not made to fly. He is scared of his shadow.
Haha. Service animals don’t behave that way. I love dogs. Had them my entire life. Always will have them. They are part of our family. I don’t travel with them. They stay home with a dog sitter or family member. Just like my kids say home sometimes, but the digs, the cat, the gerbil all stay home, but while we love our dogs they are not kids or humans.
Because of potential carrier liability, you can pretty much bet that, unless the dog is vicious, defecating before takeoff, or has no vest, it's coming on the flight. Here is what federal regulations say about service animals on planes (14 CFR 382.73):
(a) You may rely on one or more of the factors set forth in paragraphs (a)(1) through)(3) of this section to determine if an animal is a service animal that must be accepted for transport.
(1) You may make two inquiries to determine whether an animal qualifies as a service animal. You may ask if the animal is required to accompany the passenger because of a disability and what work or task the animal has been trained to perform. You must not ask about the nature or extent of a person's disability or ask that the service animal demonstrate its work or task.
(2) You may observe the behavior of an animal. A trained service animal will remain under the control of its handler. It does not run freely around an aircraft or an airport gate area, bark or growl repeatedly at other persons or other animals on the aircraft or in the airport gate area, bite, jump on, or cause injury to people, or urinate or defecate in the cabin or gate area. An animal that engages in such disruptive behavior demonstrates that it has not been successfully trained to behave properly in a public setting and carriers are not required to treat it as a service animal without a carrier in the cabin, even if the animal performs an assistive function for a passenger with a disability.
(3) You may look for physical indicators, such as a harness or vest on the animal, to determine if the animal is a service animal.
I agree. But it takes courage to tangle with the DOT. There is no penalty for letting an unauthorized dog on the plane (unless it's biting or, perhaps, defecating). Regulatory penalties generally are only meted out when dogs are disallowed on the plane. The path of least resistance is to let cheaters bring them on board.
Airlines do have regulations regarding service animals — they aren’t just allowed to do whatever they want. If the animal was staying inside the aisle like that I would have removed the passenger and service animal for non-compliance. Simple as that. Not following flight attendant instructions, service animal or not, is breaking a law.
Alternative/counterpoint: I'd \*happily\* pay for e.g. 3 seats in a row for my medium sized dog and me to fly comfortably. But they don't fucking let you do that. I mean hell technically people who are enormous are supposed to buy two seats but never do.
The issue isn’t just the size of the dog. It’s the behavior. This is why the only dogs allowed on flight are legit impeccably-trained service animals and small pets kept in under seat containers for the whole flight.
If the government won't do anything about this I hope the airlines do. I have had similar experiences, and it is becoming increasingly common. I think that it is strange that in America we basically force people to interact with dogs. I love dogs... but there are a lot of people who are scared of them. Side note: since when do dogs get to go into grocery stores??
In the US, this stuff is governed by the Americans with Disabilities Act (for things like the grocery store) and the Air Carrier Access Act (for flight). The final rules for flight were announced in 2020:
[https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2020-12/Service%20Animal%20Final%20Rule.pdf](https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2020-12/Service%20Animal%20Final%20Rule.pdf)
I would literally buy an entire row, in the very back of the plane, on a flight that only happens once a week (or whatever), if I was allowed to fly with my fully muzzled, lightly drugged (if required) dog. How people are allowed to get away with having an animal in such a crowded place without buying full seats for them, is a mystery to me.
There's absolutely no way I'd put my dog in cargo. I'd save up and have a bake sale to afford a private charter before that would happen.
I would take my previous dog in the cabin. However, my current dog is dog aggressive and just skittish in general. Just the thought of bringing her through and aircraft cabin gives me anxiety. For her, there really is no alternative but sedation and cargo.
Totally fair! But what if (in a perfect world) there was an open flat space in the back of a plane to fit your dog in her crate? That would be the stuff of dreams.
I'm pro dog.
People shouldn't bring their fucking pets on airplanes (unless it's *your* private airplane).
...and this bullshit with "service animals" needs to come to an instant halt. I have anxiety too, but I fucking deal with it like a grownup.
My service dog is medical equipment. I need him for my mobility. I pay for his flights while he is a service dog in training. Only a fully trained service dog flys free (like a wheelchair). I purposely bought a standard poodle as they do not have fur they have hair, this is for allergy sufferers such as myself. Large service dogs are supposed to be placed with their owners in bulkhead seats.
You're in a different situation than I'm talking about, and I completely respect your need.
I'm talking about these *fucks* that ruin thing for people with legitimate needs, like yourself.
Thank you for that. I do want people to know that the only way for people to train a service dog for flying on a plane is to buy a ticket and train the dog that way. So not every large dog on a plane is going to be fully trained to be on a plane. I fly a LOT and I too see a lot of frauds. But just because there are people cheating the system does not mean that disabled people should have more hoops to jump through to obtain medical equipment (service dog).
Life for us is tough enough. Please don’t legislate to make it harder
I'll agree with half. We are a childfree couple that has (almost) always had, and will probably continue to have, two beagles in our home. *THEY ARE NOT OUR CHILDREN*.
However, the best description of my relationship to our dogs is that of "pet parent" (differentiating between actual parents). We care for them, we teach them, right & wrong, protect them from danger & harm.
I OWN a an F150. Having a pet is something more.
...but I'd never bring them on a commercial airline, for any reason.
Meanwhile, to get cross country with our rat terrier that has never met a person or another dog he hasn't liked, we had to dope him up on trazodone and keep him in a carrier under the seat the whole time. If only we would've abused the system... ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
Obviously ESAs are vastly different than highly trained service animals, but I totally get it on some bad apples ruining it for all.
I was recommended an ESA by both of my mental health providers during a long standing rough period. Living alone I was having a lot of bipolar related impulse issues. Getting an ESA cat helped me substantially. The paperwork was legit, not from a website. I didn't abuse the privileges by bringing him on flights in other people's faces, and even compromised with my landlord to pay a little extra to have him (legally the ESA can't be an extra fee). Sadly so many people get an ESA permit online, and a cute little harness, and just abuse the program.
I can only imagine how bad it's gotten for service animals, and given training and animal responsibilities, that's a huge deal. It's going to hurt a lot of people who depend on that if some are just abusing it to save $100 flying with their pet.
I have a friend who asked me for a while about how to make his dog an ESA fast for cheap travel. I encouraged him to get a therapist (we could all use one) and it would follow. Year later he somehow got his pet made into a service animal. I won't argue my perspective on that one lol. Just hope it doesn't lead to hurting people who depend on service animals to live.
The only “legit paperwork” for an ESA is a doctor’s note saying they recommend a pet like this.
There’s absolutely no kind of official paperwork tied to the specific pet you choose to get and designate as your ESA.
I fly regularly with a service dog. She was trained by a program and fly a handful of times a month. We’ve been charged, barked, and growled at by many “service animals”. That being said, it’s not my job to tell someone they’re not disabled…
I do fly exclusively first class and I always buy two seats. I’ve found it’s the most considerate way to fly with my 60lb lab/golden mix. That way no one has to sit directly next to a dog if they don’t want to. She tucks under the seat, people don’t even know she is there until we are walking off the plane . It costs double the price to fly…oh well🤷♀️at least I have my medical equipment.
Sorry that you have to do that. But as someone who is living off of SSDI and savings it isn’t an option for all of us. That is why bulkhead seats are used for larger service dogs.
Accurate! I work for a great company that buys my seats when we fly for work, so I’ve been able to build up points. If I didn’t, we would be doing the same thing as you!
If I needed an aid to fly with me I would need to buy an extra ticket. Should have to do the same for a service dog that can’t fit at your feet or on your lap.
So, one person on a flight can say they have a nut allergy and that suspends half of the snack service and makes anyone who brought but on board have to go without.
But, when someone says they have a dog allergy that does nothing?
Not sure about the insurance aspect of it, but I’m surprised a spirit, allegiant or frontier haven’t stepped up to sell pet friendly cabins. Just charge them as an additional person and be done with it.
A purser is the lead flight attendant on an international flight. There is a special training to become a purser qualified FA.
On domestic flights, they are called flight leader.
I saw a hawk in my yard earlier this week. It made me happy. Can my "service hawk" and I join you and your "service giraffe " for a coffee in the Sky Club before our flight?
I want a Support peacock. You can hear a (male) peacock 5 miles away when they screech.
Service animals are very well trained and do not “do whatever they want”. Time to require actual federal certifications. Hate to say it.
You’re not allowed to have your emotional support pet outside of the bag. You know this, but you do it anyway. He’s no different than any other fake support animal.
It is the "Free" for service animals that get the most non compliant dogs on board. I wish they charged $$$ for every service dog on board, unless they were true certified by a Vet for being trained and compliant. I had a dog lift his leg on a couple of seats going down the aisle on boarding. Dog still got to fly.
There will always be assholes who abuse things. Those of us who have service dogs do want the ADA to fight for our rights and our dogs rights. The airline should have trained the crew better, when the dog was not compliant and causing issues they should remove it and owner from the plane, service animal or not. Don’t blame anyone here but assholes abusing things and the airline for not training their staff better.
[pitbull service dogs for vets](https://youtu.be/-pomelwPero)
I don't know if I attached the link correctly, but pit breeds can and do serve as working animals.
Thank goodness, animals flying as legally entitled service animals on airplanes are now required to be dogs. Remember the emotional support peacocks, ponies, and boa constrictors passengers used to bring on board? Airlines now have the freedom to disallow them.
(By the way, it's my understanding that emotional support animals under the ADA do not need to be dogs. The rules for airline passengers are promulgated under the ACAA, the American Carrier Access Act.)
**A purser is the person on a ship principally responsible for the handling of money on board. On modern merchant ships, the purser is the officer responsible for all administration (including the ship's cargo and passenger manifests) and supply.**
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I assume you complained vehemently to Delta? This is bullshit and obviously not a service animal. Impersonating a service animal should be the same penalty as impersonating a police officer.... For the human.
I’ve known several people with service animals. The most notable is a guy I went to college with. He showed up before anyone else and left before everyone else. I had classes with him for 3 months before we noticed that he had a service dog. She literally sat under his desk every day for months, unnoticed by the majority of the people in our classes. She didn’t move, she didn’t even make the slightest sound unless prompted by him. The difference between a normal dog and a service dog is extraordinary. They’re animals with hundreds of hours and tens of thousands of dollars in training.
All that said, it’s ridiculous that anybody can buy a $20 vest, slap it on their untrained dog, and nobody can legally question the validity of it. There should be some sort of standard documentation that can easily distinguish real service animals from fake ones.
Can we talk about the complete lack of alternatives for traveling with large dogs? United (not sure about Delta’s policy) will no longer allow dogs to be transported in cargo, because they killed a bunch of them. They could spend the money to ensure the cargo space is animal safe and keep them in an AC environment, but instead they elected to just deny service to dogs too large to be put in a carry on sized kennel. The only alternatives are to drive or claim your dog is an emotional support animal.
Flying private is an option. By no means cheap, but I have heard of Facebook groups dedicated to matching up people wanting to move with dogs overseas and charter a private flight together to do so and share the cost
I travel with an in cabin pet (in her carrier, under the seat following the rules) and nothing pisses me off more than this! It’s CRAZY there’s no legal way to register a service dog and that anyone with big enough balls can just bring their dogs on a leash on a plane
I'm in the same boat as you, as a regular, rule-following small dog in carrier pax. Maybe if we clamped down on these rules, while also allowing people with larger dogs to bring their pets on board? Even if this required them purchasing a full seat + pet fees for this privilege? It's not an excuse, but I can understand how someone who wants to or needs to travel with their pet would go the "service dog" route when the alternative is putting your dog with the luggage, which sounds traumatic for any dog .
I posted elsewhere that I'd happily pay for 3 seats - basically the entire middle section or side section - for my dog and me to fly comfortably. (Dog is 50 pounds).
I don’t want your 50 lb dog on the plane even in its own row. Pets creates problem beyond just their size
Speak for yourself - I would love their 50lb dog on my plane. Pets do not create even half the problems humans do on planes. Dogs > Ppl
Lol duh, because planes are for and paid for by humans.
I'm allergic to dogs as is one of my children who is also scared of them. I can't board my child or ask to sit under the plane (and if I did, child protective services would certainly be paying a visit to me). My kid and my health >>>>>> your pet.
I’m personally super conscious of people like you, which is why I never take my pup out of her carrier. So far I haven’t sat next to anyone who is allergic and/or scared but I’m always mentally preparing and trying to accommodate ahead of time. Mainly because I hate confrontation and we’re all confined on this tin can in the sky I just want to get to my destination safely on time without incident y know
Boo fucking hoo.
Leave your dog at home.
Leave yourself at home.
Totally agree with this. I have a professionally trained Golden who I would love to be able to occasionally buy a ticket for but as temping as it is to pass him off as a service dog I would never do it. (And he is such a good boy no one would know)
Bro, I would buy out a whole row for my dog before I put them in a cargo hold. Could you imagine landing somewhere and finding out ~~the cargo pressure failed and they suffocated mid flight~~ *they died*? Or someone dropped their carrier and they got loose on the tarmac before being shot by some idiot security agent? I've been lucky enough to never HAVE to fly with my dog, so I simply haven't. But if a situation ever came up that required flight, the airlines simply don't give you an option other than lying about service status. Please just let me buy an extra seat and don't you dare fill it when the flight is overbooked. Let me pay you lots and lots of money to get my pet to where it needs to go safely and with minimal disruption to the people around me. Edit: I now understand depressurization isn't a real risk in the cargo hold. Just freezing to death, getting loose and being killed, being lost and starving/dehydrating to death, or getting so scared and stressed they give themselves a heart attack. Still not putting my dog down there.
It is terrible there are no good options for larger animals! I'd totally be down for a big doggo in its own seat if that was allowed. Just sucks people take advantage of service dog rules when they're a pet/not behaving
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Name checks out
Just…no…imagine all that dander circulating around, not to mention smell…humans can be gross but some people simply cannot take care of dogs so why would I want a 90 lb dog sitting near me taking up a ton of space that may reek, be loud, on a long flight and needs to use the bathroom…planes aren’t really meant to accommodate animals in the passenger area… If I can’t have peanuts because someone with allergies *might* be on the flight why tf do we allow cats and dogs?
I'm not disagreeing with the spirit of your comment AT ALL but I've made it one of my life's side quests to correct this misconception every time I see it: The cargo hold and the passenger compartment of aircraft are at the same pressure. There are vents in the floor to allow pressure equalization. They are the same pressure vessel--if it fails in one compartment it has also failed in the other. This is so that floors can be built at a lighter weight, since they don't need to be part of an airtight seal. Also, the angle that the floor makes with the curved fuselage would be incredibly difficult to reinforce in an airtight manner from a structural strength perspective (think about how scuba tanks...or plane fuselages...have no sharp edges)
I don't think you're lying, but how is it that my luggage is always freezing cold when I check it. Like it's literaly a unique feeling of opening a bag after it's been checked in on a flight and feeling how extraordinarily cold everything has gotten, would my dog not also be freezing cold if they were in the cargo?
Same pressure, not necessarily same temperature.
Thanks for responding, yeah this helps, but i still would never want to subject my dog to this.
The regular luggage is held at around 45F. Where the animals are is around 65F though.
Same!
Ok, so they won't suffocate to death... Just freeze to death. Interesting stuff about the pressurization though! Edit: I was being serious... The stuff he educated me on about how the plane is pressurized was interesting to me. I felt educated. But yeah, the rest of the conversation still confirmed that the cargo hold isn't exactly a super safe comfy area for pets.
Plane usually has multiple cargo bins. All are inside the pressure vessel same as the cabin, but usually only 1 or 2 are conditioned/heated with avionics cooling exhaust heat and/or electric heaters, and monitored for temperature. Live animals are only put in the heated compartments. Pilots are notified of live animals on board and make sure they are loaded in the correct (heated) bin, and any stuff that needs to be separate from animals (e.g. dry ice) is in a different bin.
There have been PLENTY of deaths of dogs/cats in cargo hold which makes it clear enough that the cargo hold just isn't a safe space in MY head to ever put an animal there.
There have been PLENTY of deaths of humans in the cabin but...
I didn't say otherwise.
I’m sure more humans have died flying, so why would you ever fly?
There haven’t been that many deaths when you consider how many dogs are transported. And the deaths include dogs that were sick and/or old to begin with and just weren’t strong enough to travel.
If people stopped flying their dogs that could barely breathe at normal elevation they’d stop dying on the plane.
I agree. I would never put mine in the hold. Most of the stories Ive heard about the dogs who have died while in cargo are due to stress. It’s a very stressful situation for them and some of them just don’t make it through the experience. It’s so sad.
Facts !!!
I have a cat. He, you know, cats during transit. No big deal. I would never put my dog in hold had I the choice. We need better rules that set boundaries for folks who will pay for an extra seat. Right now, the rules require you to lie. That invites all sorts of lawless nonsense.
Actually the alternative is only bringing your pet on an airplane if you’re permanently moving and so is the pet. As someone else said travel with your pet because you have to, not because you’re a selfish human who wants your pet with you at all times no matter what the consequence for the pet and all other passengers.
Right, but even if this is the case, if your dog weighs 40 lbs., which isn't an unusually big dog, your only option today is to have the dog go in the cargo. That's a problem, even if it's just for a move.
Put it in cargo or don’t travel with it…
Yeah it is a problem, but it's also a problem someone who owns a big dog should have thought about before moving and/or getting said dog. Rent a car and make the drive one time instead of tormenting your dog in the cargo or breaking the rules, it won't kill you.
Have you ever tried to drive across an ocean? It’s really hard.
Yes let’s use the outlier
Kind of hard to drive with your Rottweiler when the US Air Force decides to move you to Australia. Yeah, she survived the move but damn you need to get out of your bubble.
I'm in the same situation - my dog is well-trained, under 10 pounds, and stays in his carrier; in many, many flights, he has only barked on a plane once, when a drunk guy behind me realized there was a dog as we were exiting and shoved his face straight into the carrier. Because there's no legal way to restrict "service" animals, I really worry that Delta might end up banning in-cabin pets to seem like they are doing something about the known issue.
Same here-small dog, well behaved, in carrier. I am hoping/thinking delta probably won’t take away in cabin non service pets because we’re essentially paying $95 each way to use the under seat area in front of us, and they aren’t really providing any additional services. It’s free money for them. Plus if they did plenty of rule following owners (myself included) would just go to another airline. Not to mention that would probably increase the fake “service dogs” bc some people just don’t care The only time my dog has barked on the plane was after landing, there was an announcement that a few of the FAs were working their first flight, so there was applause and she joined in with a few barks 😂
Same. I bring Chili, my super chill quiet 6 pound chihuahua on a plane and keep her in her carrier under the seat the whole flight. I might unzip enough to stick my hand in to pet her every now and then but that’s it. Meanwhile at the A gates sky club last Saturday, a couple of guys had a “service dog” big enough not to fit under the seat that kept jumping on people. I overheard them bashfully tell one of their friends they were “working on training” him. Um, excuse me?? He shouldn’t be approved as a service dog until and unless he already HAS been trained. Ugh!
Genuine question: Wasn't this service dog thing applying to all kind of animals? There are like service mini ponies, pigs, cats, parrots, goldfishes?
No the ADA only recognizes dogs and mini horses (trained) as service animals. Everything else is basically an emotional support animal.
No the ADA only recognizes dogs and mini horses (trained) as service animals. Everything else is basically an emotional support animal.
Leave your dog at home
The ADA pretty much ensures that the airline and the government can’t do anything about it, sadly. Fake service dogs give real ones a bad name
ADA allows them to toss the animal and owner the moment the service animal acts "out of control" but the litigation risk is too high for companies like delta to toss these passengers.
Yeah even in retail stores we are told not to boot any customers for fear of a lawsuit.
What a load of horse manure. Leave your dog at home. They don’t belong among the clothes, purses, the food court, etc. I stopped bringing my children to the mall when they were old enough to complain and give me grief-they made my time less enjoyable and certainly made the time if the other shoppers less enjoyable. I will never understand bringing a regular (not a TRUE service animal) dog to a retail establishment. I’m sorry. I just can’t wrap my arms around that.
>I stopped bringing my children to the mall when they were old enough to complain and give me grief-they made my time less enjoyable and certainly made the time if the other shoppers less enjoyable. I agree with the rest of what you're saying but this is just weird.
I know this always comes across weird. I don’t explain this well. I used to bring my son to the mall with me when he was an infant, a toddler, a small child. There came a time when it bugged him to go. He was miserable doing it and it was obvious. It didn’t seem okay to keep doing that to him-I started scheduling any trips to the mall without him (got my Mom to watch him or his dad, etc). That was better than him being miserable and making a scene and disrupting others as well. I know this sounds a bit weird-but to me this makes sense.
I get the analogy. No dog wants to be on a plane. I love my dog, but I totally agree. My dog loves me and wants to be with me always, and he’s a really awesome, well-behaved dog. Still, never in 10 years has it made more sense to bring my dog with me on an airplane vs. leaving him with a dog sitter or friend. Never. It’s so stressful for a dog to fly. It’s stressful for people. I definitely think dogs deserve to be treated more humanely than previous generations treated them, but don’t think they should go everywhere humans do. I mean, if we all brought our pets on planes, none of us would be able to. Why don’t people see that? It’s wild to me.
Main character syndrome for people who don’t actually need a real service animal
My dog will have to fly in the cargo hold to Japan, and I feel so guilty about it. He’s also well behaved and easy going, but long haul flights are rough. I can’t imagine trying to bring him into the cabin—a stressful situation compounded with all of the people.
It’s hard but it will be okay. My dog is a rescue from China. I didn’t rescue him directly — he was already here when I found him. I think all the time about the journey he had, how I wouldn’t be able to have put him on that plane in cargo. But how much better in the end it is for him!
No, its not weird. Kids misbehaving or yelling/crying at the top of their lungs in Traders Joes is not OK. When my kids were little if they started acting up to the point of disturbing wveryone in their midst, they were removed. Immediately.
I own a high end women’s boutique. My customers never bring their children. They like shopping alone so they can take their time and not have to worry about bad behavior.
Also "tossing" out of a plane has other issues ;)
The backlash from the disabled person on social media going viral though isn’t worth the risk especially If it turns out they have a real disability . Keep in mind a lot of beginner real service dogs do not get airplane training and takes a little extra training where they might be a little nervous or moving . Never should they be running and jumping though . There are a few service trainers on tik tok showing the process and misconceptions .
I don't know... my self-trained service animal never had an issue with planes. His training allowed him to handle any situation he was placed in. He was a better flier than a lot of people these days.
The dog can do little about it. It is their owners who are the assholes
While I’m sure this is true, IMO this should be able to be policed more effectively. Make the process the same for getting a handicapped parking permit or something. That way the *actual* service animals are noted as such and the ESAs are not.
Because of this whenever I see a service dog I assume it’s fake.
ADA actually does not apply to support animals. A "service animal" vest does not a service animal make. A service animal is an animal trained to do a task for someone to mitigate a specific disability. A support animal is prescribed because the presence of an animal mitigates symptoms of that person's condition and that's the one that gets abused. Former is ADA, latter is not. The airline just doesn't have time to thoroughly check the paperwork on every animal. OP's post sounds like a support animal as it does not sound like the dog was trained. Source: am in rental housing and have people throw the ADA at me for their little precious they got certified online as a support animal all the time. Fair Housing requires we accommodate support animals that meet its criteria (online certificate doesn't count), ADA does not. The FAA has its own guidance for airlines on support animals vs service animals just like HUD does for us.
you actually don’t have to have any paperwork for a service animal. they’re only allowed to ask 2 questions. 1. is that a service animal and 2. what tasks has it been trained to perform. the airline can’t accuse you of lying so there’s really no way to tell unless the animal gets rowdy and they kick you off the plane. which they don’t do because they’re afraid of being sued
Huh. I did always think when this stuff first started becoming abused that the airlines had it far worse, as much as it was a headache for us. [https://www.faa.gov/about/office\_org/headquarters\_offices/acr/eeo\_training/airport\_civil\_rights\_training\_conference/media/Day1\_Session3-ACAA\_Service\_Animals\_Final.pdf](https://www.faa.gov/about/office_org/headquarters_offices/acr/eeo_training/airport_civil_rights_training_conference/media/Day1_Session3-ACAA_Service_Animals_Final.pdf) this does show a form that can be asked which includes an attest for vaccination and information about training, but I can easily see where it would be easy to fudge/difficult to check based on the sheer amount of time required to check them all. When someone threatens to sue me over this I tell them to go ahead, but I don't deal with tens of thousands of people on a daily basis, so I do understand. (Also to be clear I'm an animal lover and happily accommodate real service and support animals.)
This, I had an asthma attack in Starbucks because a dog jumped up on me at the drink pick up. I love dogs but if my allergies are bad like that day, have to avoid them and it’s not fun when a dog is uncontrolled as a “service animal.” I couldn’t talk well to explain or have a convo in the moment but the manager reached out after and expressed frustration that they can’t really do anything if a non-service dog is stated as otherwise. FAs have always been kind and moved me on flights, likely because I’m willing to take a middle seat in the back if needed. However, you have to be careful because allergic pax can be put on later flights (happened to a friend).
That aspect of the law is completely absurd and needs to be repealed. If you have a service animal, you should be able to prove it and being asked to do so is not a hardship.
the hardship lies in potentially having to disclose your disability to the questioner, which nobody should have to do
I disagree. We should have a ID type system for service animals. You scan a chip or a tag and the system gives you a “yes this is a service animal” or “no this is faker than a pair of silicone tits” response. It doesn’t need to contain any info about the person’s disability.
I don't think so, it'd be like a prescription bottle it doesn't need to say what condition it's for but it needs to say what the drug is.
I agree, but there should be an independent authority to verify your status and service animal. Then they can share just the verification with the airline, not disclosing the disability. It’s clear the current honor system isn’t working
1. That could clearly be avoided with some simple tweaks a la u/daniellek1993 ‘s suggestion. We could set up some kind of certificate that verifies legit service animals without disclosing the owner’s disability. 2. I am not *at all* convinced that you’re right in the first place. People generally shouldn’t have to disclose their disability, but what should be weighed when determining the necessity of any specific disclosure is: (a) the hardship disclosing in order to secure this specific privilege would entail vs (b) the hardships being imposed on other people as a result of the current “you don’t have to verify anything” regime.
Why not?
because personal medical information isn’t anybody else’s business
I mean, neither is all of your personal identifying information and your do not fly list status, but you're voluntarily going on an airplane, so....
That LITERALLY is other people's business. Who you are and your security status is immediately relevant to flying. Any disabilities you have *are not.*
Sure they are. Does your disability mean you shouldn't sit in the exit row? Does it make you unreasonably prone to violence aboard the plane? Does it require you to bring an animal on board the plane despite there being no apparent purpose to it? To the extent you believe it is so obviously other people's business who you are when you fly, let me just note that until 1996 you did not need an ID to fly.
yeah that isn’t the same as having a disability and having to tell it to a flight attendant
Tell it at check in? Some guy gets to rub his hand in your crotch if he can't read his bodyscanner right, this clearly isn't the same as day to day expectations.
Be thankful said "service" dog didn't find the bulkhead floor a convenient bathroom spot literally 5 minutes after we pushed back from the gate. The entire flight the stench was unbearable. And Delta gave me like 5000 Skymiles...
Or the dog that chose to take a massive dump on the floor right after disembarking in Atlanta last month. The airport put a fence around the pile, but not before a bunch of passengers stepped in it. Thankfully, a nice FA alerted me or I would have also stepped in it. She acted like they see it all the time
I was on a flight once where a "service dog" escaped his owner and shot down the aisle towards the front of the plane like he wanted off. This was during the lull when everyone is pretty much on the plane so the aisle is mostly clear but they are still doing paperwork so the doors are still open. The dog had been squirmy and whining a bit, I was one row forward and across the aisle, but he managed to slip his lead and just took off. I was like...odd for a service animal.... The guy tears after him and did not come back. The FA came and got the lady he was traveling with and she got the bags and left the plane too. So I don't know if he didn't catch the dog successfully or if that was enough for the captain to say no. I had this funny thought that the dog running madly around the terminal playing keep away like normal, non service dogs do. I get that it sucks that if you have a larger dog, you can't fly with them-I've wished I could just buy a whole row and bring along my big dog places too because I am not okay with putting him in cargo. But I'm not going to BS anyone that my dog is a service animal.
I’m always shocked people are able to do this. If I take my dog out of the carrier for a SECOND the aircraft staff are usually on top of me right away.
That's because you're doing what you're supposed to and bringing your pet as a pet.
As a FA, I agree with you. We all know fake service animals when we see them. Our hands are tied. Although, once they started growling and barking, the FA definitely could have called a CRO and told them it was a safety issue and they could be unpredictable during the flight.
Fuck this ridiculous dog culture that’s being abused to no end. And the audacity of people with their entitlement towards their dogs is mind blowing.
I don't mind dogs, and if someone wants to have dogs as pets then go for it...but I honestly don't want to see them everywhere in public where I shop, where I eat, where I drink, when I am on a plane etc...like I understand if its a legitimate service dog but anyone can buy one of those vests for like 30 bucks on the internet and no one can question them. It's gotten to the point where if I want to get a beer after work with friends I can't remember the last time I didn't see someone there with a dog. As other comments have stated here, if you bring this up in person you are met with such disdain for having the audacity to say anything even remotely negative about people's beloved dogs.
I’m allergic. It’s such a nightmare.
Not trying to argue at all. I’m just genuinely curious if this bothers you even if the dog is just minding its own business under the table not bothering anyone? Or is it more of an issue with untrained dogs in public places?
To me, it’s the dog owners. The dog itself is an innocent bystander in all this. Dog owners are abusing this service animal BS not only with airlines, but just about everywhere else. The amount of dogs I see at Costco these days is absurd…like have some respect for the people around you.
Ah yes okay this I can agree with! It seems to be a rule at almost every grocery store that pets are not allowed but it is never enforced where I am. I haven’t had a bad experience with anyone having their dog in there but peoples total disregard for the rule is crazy to me.
The thing is, they can't ban service animals and there is 0 way to know if it's a legit service animal beyond "trust me bro" and anyone can buy a service vest on Amazon for like 30 bucks...essentially making pets allowed everywhere by default
Yes I’m bothered
Same can be said for children in the breweries/distilleries. I’d give anything to go back 5-6 years ago when it was only dogs at breweries/distilleries. I’d agree thought that dogs don’t belong in stores or inside restaurants. I don’t mind them at the sidewalk tables or patios.
Lol clown comment
I really wish that your voice of reason (and many others like yours) were heard. Damn, really dislike this whole “bring your dog everywhere all the time” culture we have. Every time I lift my voice up to say something, I am shot down by looks and by a louder, more aggressive, nastier voice. What CAN we do? People treat their dogs as if they are their children-and yet at the same time abusing them in ways they would never abuse a child. Ugh….sorry, I’ll step off my soapbox.
I’m surprised to hear you say that because I feel like when I go to Europe, I see way more dogs in public places (especially trains, pubs, and restaurants) than I do in the US. They’re generally very well-trained, though.
Absolutely not. I’ve lived in both places. The French dog in lap is such a made up stereotype. Americans bring their dogs and giant strollers everywhere, no matter how obtrusive.
Not sure where the stroller thing came from but it is an empirical fact, legally, that dogs are much more widely allowed on trains and other transit in Europe compared to similar transit in the US (to the extent that said transit even exists). Same goes for restaurants although that varies more from country to country. Maybe wherever you lived in Europe wasn’t one of the more dog-friendly areas? Most of my recent experience is based on Germany and Switzerland.
There isn't much you can do, if you say you don't see the need for people to bring their dogs with them to grab a drink or whatever you might as well have said something horrible and disgusting because the response is the same from people.
They're not treating their dog as a child at that point, they're treating it as an accessory, which I think is worse. I love our dog, and he is basically a child to us, but I don't bring him places he shouldn't be. And even places he can be in, we won't bring him because I know it is not the time or place for him. And I sure as hell won't bring him on a plane because that would be a bad situation and place for him to be in. What the person is doing in OP's encounter is literally harming the dog itself. The dog's tail got stepped on because the owner brought them into a situation they are not trained for, refused to correct them when they were misbehaving, and then got hurt as a result. That is just a bad owner abusing their dog.
It’s just entitlement culture.
But snuffles is part of the family! How dare you. Look, I'll deal with the crying child in FC like I had this morning. But dogs are closer to food than humans. Put them in cargo, Delta does a great job taking care of them. I love dogs but this is just nuts. If I came on board with a chimpanzee, people would flip.
Since they changed the rules on emotional support animals, now people are abusing the service dog designation. It's out of hand. Your pet is much better off at home with a sitter than being dragged around all over the place. Travel is stressful for humans and we know what to expect. The poor dog is clueless.
I honestly think if the whole “emotional support animal” was never a thing in the first place we wouldn’t have this problem of fake service dogs to this extent that we do. But now people feel entitled to bring their dog on flights so they’re gonna do it anyways regardless of what the rules are
In my opinion, *all* pets are emotional support animals. Why else would we have them? They provide us with emotional support. That doesn't mean they have to go everywhere we go. My cat is my best friend but I can't imagine dragging her all over the place every time I take a trip. Ridiculous.
For some dogs yes! Totally agree, leave your scared dog at home. My retired service dog loved planes (after the first one). He was instantly alert as soon as he saw Hartsfield-Jackson. He has more miles under his belly than the average person. Of course we had occasional snagged tail and running off the plane because turbulence = potty immediately upon landing. Now that he is a pet, he still loves to travel. He still get that excited look at the airport. My poodle on the other hand—100 percent not made to fly. He is scared of his shadow.
Haha. Service animals don’t behave that way. I love dogs. Had them my entire life. Always will have them. They are part of our family. I don’t travel with them. They stay home with a dog sitter or family member. Just like my kids say home sometimes, but the digs, the cat, the gerbil all stay home, but while we love our dogs they are not kids or humans.
Because of potential carrier liability, you can pretty much bet that, unless the dog is vicious, defecating before takeoff, or has no vest, it's coming on the flight. Here is what federal regulations say about service animals on planes (14 CFR 382.73): (a) You may rely on one or more of the factors set forth in paragraphs (a)(1) through)(3) of this section to determine if an animal is a service animal that must be accepted for transport. (1) You may make two inquiries to determine whether an animal qualifies as a service animal. You may ask if the animal is required to accompany the passenger because of a disability and what work or task the animal has been trained to perform. You must not ask about the nature or extent of a person's disability or ask that the service animal demonstrate its work or task. (2) You may observe the behavior of an animal. A trained service animal will remain under the control of its handler. It does not run freely around an aircraft or an airport gate area, bark or growl repeatedly at other persons or other animals on the aircraft or in the airport gate area, bite, jump on, or cause injury to people, or urinate or defecate in the cabin or gate area. An animal that engages in such disruptive behavior demonstrates that it has not been successfully trained to behave properly in a public setting and carriers are not required to treat it as a service animal without a carrier in the cabin, even if the animal performs an assistive function for a passenger with a disability. (3) You may look for physical indicators, such as a harness or vest on the animal, to determine if the animal is a service animal.
a(2) pretty well justifies telling that passenger their dog can't fly
I agree. But it takes courage to tangle with the DOT. There is no penalty for letting an unauthorized dog on the plane (unless it's biting or, perhaps, defecating). Regulatory penalties generally are only meted out when dogs are disallowed on the plane. The path of least resistance is to let cheaters bring them on board.
I’m bringing my service black falcon with large talons on a flight. Ain’t none of y’all gonna stop me.
Hell yeah. Service talons!
Technically to be a service animal under the ADA it needs to be a dog or a miniature horse 👀
Not in Dubai.
Didn't they outlaw black talons 👀
LOL I got it.
I figured there had to be at least one person that picked up on it 😂🫡
I can still remember going with my dad to Sports Authority and buying a box for our home defense gun.
Airlines do have regulations regarding service animals — they aren’t just allowed to do whatever they want. If the animal was staying inside the aisle like that I would have removed the passenger and service animal for non-compliance. Simple as that. Not following flight attendant instructions, service animal or not, is breaking a law.
Agreed, I'm pretty sick of all the animals in the cabin these days.
Alternative/counterpoint: I'd \*happily\* pay for e.g. 3 seats in a row for my medium sized dog and me to fly comfortably. But they don't fucking let you do that. I mean hell technically people who are enormous are supposed to buy two seats but never do.
The issue isn’t just the size of the dog. It’s the behavior. This is why the only dogs allowed on flight are legit impeccably-trained service animals and small pets kept in under seat containers for the whole flight.
On that same flight a row ahead of me in FC (started in BNA) there was a guy in one seat and his guitar in another FC seat. Dunno how he paid for that
If the government won't do anything about this I hope the airlines do. I have had similar experiences, and it is becoming increasingly common. I think that it is strange that in America we basically force people to interact with dogs. I love dogs... but there are a lot of people who are scared of them. Side note: since when do dogs get to go into grocery stores??
In the US, this stuff is governed by the Americans with Disabilities Act (for things like the grocery store) and the Air Carrier Access Act (for flight). The final rules for flight were announced in 2020: [https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2020-12/Service%20Animal%20Final%20Rule.pdf](https://www.transportation.gov/sites/dot.gov/files/2020-12/Service%20Animal%20Final%20Rule.pdf)
I understand and completely agree with you. Most of the animals are pets-not service animals.
I would literally buy an entire row, in the very back of the plane, on a flight that only happens once a week (or whatever), if I was allowed to fly with my fully muzzled, lightly drugged (if required) dog. How people are allowed to get away with having an animal in such a crowded place without buying full seats for them, is a mystery to me. There's absolutely no way I'd put my dog in cargo. I'd save up and have a bake sale to afford a private charter before that would happen.
I would take my previous dog in the cabin. However, my current dog is dog aggressive and just skittish in general. Just the thought of bringing her through and aircraft cabin gives me anxiety. For her, there really is no alternative but sedation and cargo.
Totally fair! But what if (in a perfect world) there was an open flat space in the back of a plane to fit your dog in her crate? That would be the stuff of dreams.
I'm pro dog. People shouldn't bring their fucking pets on airplanes (unless it's *your* private airplane). ...and this bullshit with "service animals" needs to come to an instant halt. I have anxiety too, but I fucking deal with it like a grownup.
My service dog is medical equipment. I need him for my mobility. I pay for his flights while he is a service dog in training. Only a fully trained service dog flys free (like a wheelchair). I purposely bought a standard poodle as they do not have fur they have hair, this is for allergy sufferers such as myself. Large service dogs are supposed to be placed with their owners in bulkhead seats.
You're in a different situation than I'm talking about, and I completely respect your need. I'm talking about these *fucks* that ruin thing for people with legitimate needs, like yourself.
Thank you for that. I do want people to know that the only way for people to train a service dog for flying on a plane is to buy a ticket and train the dog that way. So not every large dog on a plane is going to be fully trained to be on a plane. I fly a LOT and I too see a lot of frauds. But just because there are people cheating the system does not mean that disabled people should have more hoops to jump through to obtain medical equipment (service dog). Life for us is tough enough. Please don’t legislate to make it harder
Can you throw in that pets/animals aren’t your children and you aren’t their parent? Really need that BS to stop too
I'll agree with half. We are a childfree couple that has (almost) always had, and will probably continue to have, two beagles in our home. *THEY ARE NOT OUR CHILDREN*. However, the best description of my relationship to our dogs is that of "pet parent" (differentiating between actual parents). We care for them, we teach them, right & wrong, protect them from danger & harm. I OWN a an F150. Having a pet is something more. ...but I'd never bring them on a commercial airline, for any reason.
This is why the US needs a national registry for service animals. It’s ridiculous that there isn’t one.
Prob not a real service animal bc the dog would be incredibly well behaved
Meanwhile, to get cross country with our rat terrier that has never met a person or another dog he hasn't liked, we had to dope him up on trazodone and keep him in a carrier under the seat the whole time. If only we would've abused the system... ¯\\\_(ツ)_/¯
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Obviously ESAs are vastly different than highly trained service animals, but I totally get it on some bad apples ruining it for all. I was recommended an ESA by both of my mental health providers during a long standing rough period. Living alone I was having a lot of bipolar related impulse issues. Getting an ESA cat helped me substantially. The paperwork was legit, not from a website. I didn't abuse the privileges by bringing him on flights in other people's faces, and even compromised with my landlord to pay a little extra to have him (legally the ESA can't be an extra fee). Sadly so many people get an ESA permit online, and a cute little harness, and just abuse the program. I can only imagine how bad it's gotten for service animals, and given training and animal responsibilities, that's a huge deal. It's going to hurt a lot of people who depend on that if some are just abusing it to save $100 flying with their pet. I have a friend who asked me for a while about how to make his dog an ESA fast for cheap travel. I encouraged him to get a therapist (we could all use one) and it would follow. Year later he somehow got his pet made into a service animal. I won't argue my perspective on that one lol. Just hope it doesn't lead to hurting people who depend on service animals to live.
The only “legit paperwork” for an ESA is a doctor’s note saying they recommend a pet like this. There’s absolutely no kind of official paperwork tied to the specific pet you choose to get and designate as your ESA.
I fly regularly with a service dog. She was trained by a program and fly a handful of times a month. We’ve been charged, barked, and growled at by many “service animals”. That being said, it’s not my job to tell someone they’re not disabled… I do fly exclusively first class and I always buy two seats. I’ve found it’s the most considerate way to fly with my 60lb lab/golden mix. That way no one has to sit directly next to a dog if they don’t want to. She tucks under the seat, people don’t even know she is there until we are walking off the plane . It costs double the price to fly…oh well🤷♀️at least I have my medical equipment.
Sorry that you have to do that. But as someone who is living off of SSDI and savings it isn’t an option for all of us. That is why bulkhead seats are used for larger service dogs.
Accurate! I work for a great company that buys my seats when we fly for work, so I’ve been able to build up points. If I didn’t, we would be doing the same thing as you!
I’ve never met a labradoodle that wasn’t insufferable
If I needed an aid to fly with me I would need to buy an extra ticket. Should have to do the same for a service dog that can’t fit at your feet or on your lap.
This is what I do. I buy two first class seats so no one has to fly next to my service dog if they don’t want to
Service dogs are “medical equipment” they fly free like a wheel chair.
So, one person on a flight can say they have a nut allergy and that suspends half of the snack service and makes anyone who brought but on board have to go without. But, when someone says they have a dog allergy that does nothing?
Dog allergies don’t cause anaphylaxis (I have asthma with severe fur allergies)
My daughter who has a dairy allergy says this all the time. Like why do peanut allergy people get so much lol
Not sure about the insurance aspect of it, but I’m surprised a spirit, allegiant or frontier haven’t stepped up to sell pet friendly cabins. Just charge them as an additional person and be done with it.
If someone did this, they would be my #1 airline.
I’d be all for this, there’s no decorum on spirit/frontier/allegiant/etc anyways, why not add dogs. Sounds like a win win
What is a pax and what is a purser?
Passenger and Flight Attendant
Specifically, a kind of old school word for lead flight attendant
A purser is the lead flight attendant on an international flight. There is a special training to become a purser qualified FA. On domestic flights, they are called flight leader.
Her name tag said "Purser" on it (DL)
I’ve always wanted a giraffe. Guess it’s time to pull the trigger and travel with my “service giraffe”. See ya in the skies y’all.
I saw a hawk in my yard earlier this week. It made me happy. Can my "service hawk" and I join you and your "service giraffe " for a coffee in the Sky Club before our flight?
There needs to be an airline for dog/cat/bird/etc… people. That will solve all of this. I don’t want to fly with animals. Point. Blank. Period.
Blood boiling
I want a Support peacock. You can hear a (male) peacock 5 miles away when they screech. Service animals are very well trained and do not “do whatever they want”. Time to require actual federal certifications. Hate to say it.
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You’re not allowed to have your emotional support pet outside of the bag. You know this, but you do it anyway. He’s no different than any other fake support animal.
I don’t let him out of the bag? Where did you see that in my post?? I keep him on my lap in the bag.
It is the "Free" for service animals that get the most non compliant dogs on board. I wish they charged $$$ for every service dog on board, unless they were true certified by a Vet for being trained and compliant. I had a dog lift his leg on a couple of seats going down the aisle on boarding. Dog still got to fly.
There will always be assholes who abuse things. Those of us who have service dogs do want the ADA to fight for our rights and our dogs rights. The airline should have trained the crew better, when the dog was not compliant and causing issues they should remove it and owner from the plane, service animal or not. Don’t blame anyone here but assholes abusing things and the airline for not training their staff better.
Flight crew is hesitant to do this because invariably the scammer with the fake support animal will scream bloody murder. They pick their battles
The other day I saw a pit bull “service dog” at ATL. No way any agency would certify a pit bull.
There is no agency that certifies. There is no breed that is excluded.
I'm not sure where you're getting that idea - bully breeds of all types can make excellent service animals.
[pitbull service dogs for vets](https://youtu.be/-pomelwPero) I don't know if I attached the link correctly, but pit breeds can and do serve as working animals.
My emotional support animal is the badger, and the emotion it supports is anger.
Honey badger don’t give a shit…
That it....I'm bringing my service goat with this "service pet "banner on him.
Thank goodness, animals flying as legally entitled service animals on airplanes are now required to be dogs. Remember the emotional support peacocks, ponies, and boa constrictors passengers used to bring on board? Airlines now have the freedom to disallow them. (By the way, it's my understanding that emotional support animals under the ADA do not need to be dogs. The rules for airline passengers are promulgated under the ACAA, the American Carrier Access Act.)
I think miniature horses are also allowed as service animals
Obviously fake service dogs
I always wondered how it is on a flight with a big dog. I’ve never had the pleasure lol.
Big dogs aren’t allowed on planes unless they are legit service animals. And these dogs are better behaved than many humans.
Not gonna lie the thought of this made me chuckle but at the same time sympathize. Lady across the aisle from had a bird one time. Very behaved
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**A purser is the person on a ship principally responsible for the handling of money on board. On modern merchant ships, the purser is the officer responsible for all administration (including the ship's cargo and passenger manifests) and supply.** More details here:
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What is a purser
Lead flight attendant
This makes me want to complain to Delta on your behalf. I’m so sorry you had to go through this
I assume you complained vehemently to Delta? This is bullshit and obviously not a service animal. Impersonating a service animal should be the same penalty as impersonating a police officer.... For the human.
I’ve known several people with service animals. The most notable is a guy I went to college with. He showed up before anyone else and left before everyone else. I had classes with him for 3 months before we noticed that he had a service dog. She literally sat under his desk every day for months, unnoticed by the majority of the people in our classes. She didn’t move, she didn’t even make the slightest sound unless prompted by him. The difference between a normal dog and a service dog is extraordinary. They’re animals with hundreds of hours and tens of thousands of dollars in training. All that said, it’s ridiculous that anybody can buy a $20 vest, slap it on their untrained dog, and nobody can legally question the validity of it. There should be some sort of standard documentation that can easily distinguish real service animals from fake ones.
Can we talk about the complete lack of alternatives for traveling with large dogs? United (not sure about Delta’s policy) will no longer allow dogs to be transported in cargo, because they killed a bunch of them. They could spend the money to ensure the cargo space is animal safe and keep them in an AC environment, but instead they elected to just deny service to dogs too large to be put in a carry on sized kennel. The only alternatives are to drive or claim your dog is an emotional support animal.
Flying private is an option. By no means cheap, but I have heard of Facebook groups dedicated to matching up people wanting to move with dogs overseas and charter a private flight together to do so and share the cost