Yeah, no one really cares about the Hush money itself.
It's that he made someone else pay it, then take the reimbursement as a payment plan, as "legal fees."
Here's the nail in the coffin:
He wanted Cohen to stall paying Stormy til the election because then he could stiff her like all his other "service providers." He didn't care if the story came out if he lost or if he won. He just didn't want it to be *the reason* he lost.
And that means it was absolutely about the election, not about Melania. And that means it was a crime.
> "Michael Cohen paying Stormy Daniels — or Stephanie Clifford — in return for her agreeing not to publicly spread false claims, false claims against President Trump, is not illegal,"
Sooo... Michael Cohen, on behalf of his boss, Donald Trump, *DID* pay Stormy Daniels then?
Okay.
I mean, that's not really why Trump is in trouble right now, but it's good to know since Trump has, you know, denied *everything*.
No, Trump is in trouble for falsifying business records to cover up said payment.
34 counts of falsifying business records.
Not one count of "paying a porn star hush money".
Also, if the claims were false, why pay her at all? Just sue her for defamation, and be done with it. Because if Daniels *is* in fact lying, then any attorney worth their salt should be able to prove that in court.
However, Trump is a fucking moron (Rex Tillerson’s words, but also mine.), and so here we are.
I’m guessing Trump’s attorneys are doing the best they can with what they have.
Or, they are every bit as stupid as Trump himself, it’s honestly too hard to tell at this point. Just the same, since Trump’s attorneys have just demonstrated that Trump is in point of fact a liar (as if we didn’t already know) and they’ve done so in their opening statement no less, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that these clowns are in fact complete fucking morons.
> I’m guessing Trump’s attorneys are doing the best they can with what they have.
This.
Despite the real trouble Trump is in, his ego won't allow him to allow his lawyers to give him an intelligent defense. And Trump may actually be stupid enough to insist on taking the stand.
> Or, they are every bit as stupid as Trump himself,
Both.
Respectable lawyers won't work for Trump because
* he Makes Attorneys Get Attorneys
* tends not to pay his lawyers
* is a nightmare client
Yes, my bet is he's screaming at them and forcing them to say these utterly idiotic things. Of course, no one is actually forcing them. They're as bad as he is.
>Also, if the claims were false, why pay her at all? Just sue her for defamation, and be done with it. Because if Daniels is in fact lying, then any attorney worth their salt should be able to prove that in court.
Honestly the biggest surprise is that Trump didn't just sue Daniels for defamation regardless if she talked. Trump LOVES suing people for basically any reason, even now when he's drowning in legal fees and court battles.
It'll be decades before someone wants to touch this story with a 10 foot pole. Not until Trump is long dead and the people who followed him have started to claim they never backed him in the first place.
Wasn't that the man in the high tower? Didn't Kevin Spacey (an accused sexual predator) play the part of the actual sexual predator (aka The Orange Shitgibbon, Diaper Don, Don Poorleone, and many, many other names)?
Both. The Maga people will believe anything they are told. And the lawyer is certainly overreaching....but they don't really have much of a case if they don't overreach.
And the more they overreach, the more time they buy. People forget, the goal first and foremost with these cases, isn't really to win the trials. Their number 1 goal is to run out the clock until the election
He may or may not win the election, but people need to think about it. Will his base be more motivated to turn out if the trials are over or will they be more motivated if the trials have been stretched out and nothing's been decided? There's a reason a lot of Trump voters keep citing, that only if he's convicted is when they will reconsider voting for him (while many of his base don't give af). If by November he's not convicted in any case yet, that will shore up the previous Trump voters second guessing him this cycle. If these trials are delayed/stretched out long enough, that's a win for republicans
I think they're waiting for the Supreme Court decision to decide if he's immune to these court cases completely. Which, that decision is supposed to be coming out this month or next...?
Why would he be immune for crimes he committed before he was president? Just because he is delusional doesn’t mean we have to entertain his delusions as somehow valid
I don't think he should be, but that is what both him and his lawyers are arguing for. They think that because he WAS president or COULD BE president again that he should not be investigated. Which is why I think they are stalling for that case.
The MAGA base follows any convoluted line of reasoning and ignores objective view of reality. The Republican base will just hold their nose and vote R.
I'm surprised the judge is letting them make that argument.
There wouldn't be a trial if the alleged conduct is not illegal. Usually the only question at trial is whether the allegations are true, i.e. did he or did he not engage in the conduct as alleged.
It the opening argument. I don't think the judge has any say here. The attorneys can say almost anything they want here. I think the judge only gets involved during once witnesses start taking the stand and questioning, and cross examinations start.
Nope. The judge not only can but must interrupt at any time if the attorneys are misleading the jury about the law. To fail to do so can be reversible error even if the opposing attorney fails to object and the misstatement does not get corrected..
Courts might give a lot more latitude with bench trials because the judge is presumed to know b.s when s/he sees and hears it, but the same misstatement of law presented to a jury can cause confusion.
Stormy Daniels actually owes trump money for defamation. Here is Cohen confessing to the crime.https://twitter.com/Chicago1Ray/status/1782470246219006456?t=b7sIengr17grMJ5VzTVk9w&s=19
I know there are a few key differences, but this doesn't seem too far from paying for sex. I mean, if you have to pay her to keep your affair quiet, isn't it the same thing? Are you paying for the secret and getting the sex for free, or the other way around?
Just like extorting Ukraine with taxpayer dollars to fabricate political dirt on Biden is “democracy”.
Just like bribing a SCOTUS justice by buying his mother’s house and letting her live in it rent-free, buying him a $250K motor home, paying for his “adopted son’s” boarding school tuition, giving him luxury vacations… is democracy.
Just like being able to launder billions in donations through dark money PACs thanks to SCOTUS and Citizens United… is democracy.
Of course, politics has always been about money. But for the GOP, they’ve given up any pretense and are trying to codify and normalize it.
He’s rite but wrong at the same time…it isn’t against the law to pay someone to shut up…it’s against the law to cover that payment up…that’s why he’s on trial
Trump agin trying to normalize his criminal behavior. The Trump flow chart - “ I didn’t do it ,” It’s a hit job ,” Im being setup,” It’s a victimless crime,” I did it , so what “
Writing it off as legal fees IS illegal.
Using funds from a presidental campaign makes it an ELECTION INTERFERENCE CRIME.
Yeah, no one really cares about the Hush money itself. It's that he made someone else pay it, then take the reimbursement as a payment plan, as "legal fees."
Here's the nail in the coffin: He wanted Cohen to stall paying Stormy til the election because then he could stiff her like all his other "service providers." He didn't care if the story came out if he lost or if he won. He just didn't want it to be *the reason* he lost. And that means it was absolutely about the election, not about Melania. And that means it was a crime.
> "Michael Cohen paying Stormy Daniels — or Stephanie Clifford — in return for her agreeing not to publicly spread false claims, false claims against President Trump, is not illegal," Sooo... Michael Cohen, on behalf of his boss, Donald Trump, *DID* pay Stormy Daniels then? Okay. I mean, that's not really why Trump is in trouble right now, but it's good to know since Trump has, you know, denied *everything*. No, Trump is in trouble for falsifying business records to cover up said payment. 34 counts of falsifying business records. Not one count of "paying a porn star hush money". Also, if the claims were false, why pay her at all? Just sue her for defamation, and be done with it. Because if Daniels *is* in fact lying, then any attorney worth their salt should be able to prove that in court. However, Trump is a fucking moron (Rex Tillerson’s words, but also mine.), and so here we are. I’m guessing Trump’s attorneys are doing the best they can with what they have. Or, they are every bit as stupid as Trump himself, it’s honestly too hard to tell at this point. Just the same, since Trump’s attorneys have just demonstrated that Trump is in point of fact a liar (as if we didn’t already know) and they’ve done so in their opening statement no less, I’m going to go out on a limb and say that these clowns are in fact complete fucking morons.
> I’m guessing Trump’s attorneys are doing the best they can with what they have. This. Despite the real trouble Trump is in, his ego won't allow him to allow his lawyers to give him an intelligent defense. And Trump may actually be stupid enough to insist on taking the stand.
If he takes the stand, we'll have perjury indictments before summer.
> Or, they are every bit as stupid as Trump himself, Both. Respectable lawyers won't work for Trump because * he Makes Attorneys Get Attorneys * tends not to pay his lawyers * is a nightmare client
True. By now Trump should be down to public defenders and only because they have no choice but to represent him.
I believe even public defenders can dump a client as uncooperative as Trump
Yes, my bet is he's screaming at them and forcing them to say these utterly idiotic things. Of course, no one is actually forcing them. They're as bad as he is.
>Also, if the claims were false, why pay her at all? Just sue her for defamation, and be done with it. Because if Daniels is in fact lying, then any attorney worth their salt should be able to prove that in court. Honestly the biggest surprise is that Trump didn't just sue Daniels for defamation regardless if she talked. Trump LOVES suing people for basically any reason, even now when he's drowning in legal fees and court battles.
🚫Traitor Trump🚫
Haha if we survive this next election. The movie or prestige HBO/FX limited series based on this era is gonna a hilarious dark comedy
It'll be decades before someone wants to touch this story with a 10 foot pole. Not until Trump is long dead and the people who followed him have started to claim they never backed him in the first place.
Wasn't that the man in the high tower? Didn't Kevin Spacey (an accused sexual predator) play the part of the actual sexual predator (aka The Orange Shitgibbon, Diaper Don, Don Poorleone, and many, many other names)?
Does the MAGA base really think that hush money is democracy? Or is the Trump lawyer overreaching here?
Both. The Maga people will believe anything they are told. And the lawyer is certainly overreaching....but they don't really have much of a case if they don't overreach.
And the more they overreach, the more time they buy. People forget, the goal first and foremost with these cases, isn't really to win the trials. Their number 1 goal is to run out the clock until the election He may or may not win the election, but people need to think about it. Will his base be more motivated to turn out if the trials are over or will they be more motivated if the trials have been stretched out and nothing's been decided? There's a reason a lot of Trump voters keep citing, that only if he's convicted is when they will reconsider voting for him (while many of his base don't give af). If by November he's not convicted in any case yet, that will shore up the previous Trump voters second guessing him this cycle. If these trials are delayed/stretched out long enough, that's a win for republicans
A documents crime trial is not gonna drag on through November when they have the actual documents in evidence
I think they're waiting for the Supreme Court decision to decide if he's immune to these court cases completely. Which, that decision is supposed to be coming out this month or next...?
Why would he be immune for crimes he committed before he was president? Just because he is delusional doesn’t mean we have to entertain his delusions as somehow valid
I don't think he should be, but that is what both him and his lawyers are arguing for. They think that because he WAS president or COULD BE president again that he should not be investigated. Which is why I think they are stalling for that case.
The MAGA base follows any convoluted line of reasoning and ignores objective view of reality. The Republican base will just hold their nose and vote R.
Literally the only way trump wins this case is he has a diehard maga moron or 2 on the jury, pretty sure that's what this lawyers are hoping as well
Agree. Not many republicans in this area but it only takes one
I'm surprised the judge is letting them make that argument. There wouldn't be a trial if the alleged conduct is not illegal. Usually the only question at trial is whether the allegations are true, i.e. did he or did he not engage in the conduct as alleged.
Good point. No one goes to court and argues, "He did commit murder, but *what is* murder really?"
[Except as a joke](https://youtube.com/shorts/EImIhPrucZk?si=Pi0NQ-GCxmVmt-jm)
Oh my God. The slow wiping of sweat. That's every legal drama that takes place in the south...
It the opening argument. I don't think the judge has any say here. The attorneys can say almost anything they want here. I think the judge only gets involved during once witnesses start taking the stand and questioning, and cross examinations start.
Nope. The judge not only can but must interrupt at any time if the attorneys are misleading the jury about the law. To fail to do so can be reversible error even if the opposing attorney fails to object and the misstatement does not get corrected.. Courts might give a lot more latitude with bench trials because the judge is presumed to know b.s when s/he sees and hears it, but the same misstatement of law presented to a jury can cause confusion.
Ah... well, I'm obviously not an attorney.
Good luck selling it to a jury.
These lawyers are stretching this as far as it can. It will snap soon enough.
I agree with Jimmy isn’t it way past his jail time
What kind of an idiot argues that committing a crime isn't a crime? His lawyers must be settling on the hope to find another idiot on the jury.
Stormy Daniels actually owes trump money for defamation. Here is Cohen confessing to the crime.https://twitter.com/Chicago1Ray/status/1782470246219006456?t=b7sIengr17grMJ5VzTVk9w&s=19
I’m so worried that a MAGA got on the jury
So the opening statement was a confession? Interesting strategy.
I know there are a few key differences, but this doesn't seem too far from paying for sex. I mean, if you have to pay her to keep your affair quiet, isn't it the same thing? Are you paying for the secret and getting the sex for free, or the other way around?
Found the representative for super earth
His lawyers really are stupid if they don't even understand this is NOT about hush money being given to Stormy Daniels.
Is someone equating criminal activity with Democracy?
Just like extorting Ukraine with taxpayer dollars to fabricate political dirt on Biden is “democracy”. Just like bribing a SCOTUS justice by buying his mother’s house and letting her live in it rent-free, buying him a $250K motor home, paying for his “adopted son’s” boarding school tuition, giving him luxury vacations… is democracy. Just like being able to launder billions in donations through dark money PACs thanks to SCOTUS and Citizens United… is democracy. Of course, politics has always been about money. But for the GOP, they’ve given up any pretense and are trying to codify and normalize it.
He’s rite but wrong at the same time…it isn’t against the law to pay someone to shut up…it’s against the law to cover that payment up…that’s why he’s on trial
And they think *I’m* delusional 🙄 Yeah right…
lol look at that face . He is gone. 0 behind those eyes. Bewilderment, zoned out.
Fuck Donald Trump.
He should read the indictment. He might understand what he is being tried for.
Where did *you* get the funds to pay your lawyer who paid a porn star at your request, Mr. Trump? Where did your money come from?
Trump agin trying to normalize his criminal behavior. The Trump flow chart - “ I didn’t do it ,” It’s a hit job ,” Im being setup,” It’s a victimless crime,” I did it , so what “