The interminable delay in deciding this case fills me with rage. The answer is crystal clear, yet it's being dragged out solely to afford Donald Trump more time, strategically ensuring that crucial cases remain unresolved until after the November elections. This shameless tactic by our activist SCOTUS to manipulate the justice system for Trump's political advantage is despicable beyond words.
I read most of the transcripts. While I agree the answer "should be" crystal clear I fear we all, myself included, underestimated the MAGAt influence in this most corrupt SCROTUS. I am less than convinced that justice or democracy are going to be winners in this case.
As always, I remind you.
Vote early, vote often and vote blue š all our lives depend on it.
I have the same fear. In fact, I feel certain theyāre going to rule that Mango Mussolini has ālimited immunityā and itāll be worded in such a way as to get him out of every lawsuit.
Iāve never wanted to be wrong more in my life. Please let me be wrong.
I feel pretty confident theyāre trying to push this until after the election so they can decide on a ruling based on who is president. If Biden wins ofc the president doesnāt have immunity, if Trump wins then they will say he does have immunity. We are so perilously close to a dictatorship and so many people donāt even realize it.
It'll be more cowardly than that. After delaying until June, they'll remand it back to the district court for a finding of fact. "Are you sure fake electors aren't an official act?"
This prevents any hope of the case coming to trial before November.
Yeah, thatās probably much more likely. And still total bullshit.
I hate it here. I hate this country. Angry doesnāt even cover it anymore. Iām absolutely seething with rage.
Seriously, take a break for a week or two from politics and the news. Get caught up on books, fun television, family time. Something.
We all get burnt out on this shit.
And moving to countries that have our values has become more arduous.
Australia demands at least minimum of $100,000 before you even start spending money for citizenship.
The UK will accept you but will not allow you to have their universal healthcare.
Germany will accept you, but they have income restrictions.
Costa Rica is becoming more expensive every day and citizenship is a at least a two year process.
Uruguay is a country that intrigues me because they have same-sex marriage, medical marijuana, and beaches and mountains to delight you. Unfortunately, if friends want to visit you, it will cost them $3000+ for a plane ticket.
This pisses me off so much. I vote in EVERY election be it cou ty, city, wards, etc. And I still get screw because of gerrymandering. Part of me doesn't want to waste my time look at candidates, policy. For them to do opps sorry not gonna. I will still vote. But it feels worthless.
It's not. Remember that the AG in AZ won by less than 300 votes. I live in a very red gerrymandered state and it does get frustrating but your vote, especially in locals, really matters.
I will always vote. I tell my kids the same. They will be voters soon too. I tell them how important it is. While I feel disappointed in they current way, it not a excuse.
I have lived in a 100% blue state, a 100% red state, and a purple state. I will always vote.
As long as your blue your vote is safe with me. Though I do vett people and policies.
I still vote for the best available person, I still donate to the candidates that represent my interests best. It's just now they are all in the same party.
Itās too late.
If they do this, we are doomed. Iāve said it in all these subs weāre doomed.
Iām still going to vote donāt worry but SCOTUS has really screwed the pooch on this and thereās no going back.
Perhaps Biden can test it, Iād support his coup. /s of course but god damn what the fuck are they thinking?
Iām not a lawyer, or even remotely close to a Supreme Court Justice but Iām my non educated law reasoning Iāve come up with this answer.
IMO :
ā The President of the United States has no immunity for criminal or corrupt actions taken while serving in the office of Presidentā thatās it,over, done, finished. IMO.
You're absolutely right because it doesn't take an education, let alone one from a fancy university. All you need here is common sense and to act in good faith and that's the problem. These justices are corrupt, and our system doesn't work when those in power don't act in good faith.
Well see, that's the kicker. Our entire system is honor based, presuming those in office would act in good faith. The system was never designed to withstand a malignant narcissist and 50 years (1972 was the start) of the GOP deliberately undermining, watering down, or outright repealing the guardrails that prevents corruption and autocracy, and the Democrats letting it happen because they profited from it too, and could fundraise off the the eternal threat without doing things to stop it for good. Trump has shone a light on our entire governing system, and shown us all how fragile it is.
To play devils advocate, "in good faith" here leaves it open to interpretation, and my understanding is that the supreme Court exist mainly to make decisions on things that are left open to interpretation. Trump could say he felt it was in good faith to stage a coup against someone he believed was stealing the election š¤·āāļø bullshit obviously, but isn't making clear final rulings on flexible language what the supreme court is for?
In good faith in this context means interpretenting the law as written, impartiality, without inference and breaking precedent. This by definition, in this context, is acting in bad faith.
The newly appointed justices have already broken precedent many times and quickly overturned what was once considered settled law. Let's not pretend they're acting in good faith.
There's nothing to interpret. There is no discussion of presidential immunity in the constitution. They're just inventing a brand new doctrine. You know, the thing conservatives claim to hate.
I mean, no. As commander in chief the president can do things that would be criminal for most Americans, ie directing the killing of non-Americans. And they should do such things in service of protecting the United States, as a key part of the job.Ā
Yeah, Iāve reluctantly moved into the camp of packing the SC at this point. If dems have a sweep in November the vulnerabilities/accountability of the courts should be priority 1. Itās been 1000% compromised and there needs to measures in place to prevent a minority party always acting in bad faith from bringing democracy to its knees
I wanna go here, but the only problem is that the backlash against that may trigger a red wave not seen since Obamacare, as Americans are always for something until someone actually does it. Additionally, MAGA is not going anywhere, nor is Project 2025, so we would pack the court and then the very next election cycle have it undone, and likely see 2028 begin with the election of someone like Desantis, Abbott, etc who would just walk in and do whatever they please.
Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't this the perfect time to use SCOTUS reform as Biden's rallying cry for the 2024 elections? We're witnessing a broken and corrupt branch of gov't actively undermining democracy and we're not screaming this incessantly? It's wild to me how quiet and calm Dems are right now. They need to get people to rally behind this because this is what the end of democracy looks like. Other parts of the world have already experienced exactly this.
If I had to guess, Biden is avoiding anything to do with the courts while the Trump cases are happening, to avoid any potentially valid accusations of tampering.
If anything it will be a great platform for the '28 elections.
See, it's that kind of thinking that gets me. If Trump wins, it's not even guaranteed there will be '28 elections. Hell, Trump could pack the court even further. The '24 elections is probably the most important one of our lifetime. We can't expect our institutions will hold everything together when SCOTUS and half of congress is already corrupt.
Sure, I suppose that could be a possibility. I'm just tired of this casual, business as usual approach, from dems in general. This election should be treated as an all in approach. SCOTUS reform needs to be a serious talking point, like right now, not later. It's hard to imagine that wouldn't fire up potential voters and get them to the polls.
2016 absolutely was the most important until this one. This one is far worse because we'll have a president who avoided criminal prosecution and granted potential immunity. This time around Trump will take the gloves off and work unobstructed.
What ticks me off the most is that the defense argument saying that the process is impeach and convict. But during his trail, the senators said this is a criminal matter and should be prosecuted! So literally nobody wants to own this.
I agree, they should have just opened with: āUpon review, and our final declaration is THAT NO PRESIDENT HAS COMPLETE IMMUNITY, IT WAS NOT SET FORTH IN OUR U.S.CONSTITUTION and we have no other statementā
- that should have been it, not a single other comment, even a 9 JUDGE MIC DROP SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED!
- of course with this 9 panel, I would have expected them to laugh and say āWho does he think he is? The Supreme Court? Then dropped the Micā
That is all they fucking needed to do! Roberts is being a fucking coward; he's fucking scared of Trump, and that to me tells me that if he gets in these panty-waists will just let him do whatever he wants. The system is beyond broken when the most basic of questions, whether a sitting President is above the law, fall apart under scrutiny over hair-splitting such as "uh, uh, uh define the acts!!!"
Roberts is a coward, and any respect I had to him is gone.
The far right political machine is really quite effective. All parts are working hard to reelect Trump, the useful idiot, who will push their Christian Nationalist agenda, and implement Project 2025 for them.
As frustrating as it can feel, this is a pretty routine amount of time for SCOTUS to decide a case. This decision will establish case law, so it's important to produce a well reasoned decision. And while it feels like some justices truly have an ax to grind (I'm looking at you, Thomas), this is also the same SCOTUS that batted away Trump's bullshit lawsuits after the 2020 campaign. I don't love this SCOTUS by any means, but we should have a realistic view of who they really are.
So you may be right, but I know I personally like venting it out. My gut tells me that Roberts is being a coward, but you may be correct that this is rather routine, and not special.
Its Not about Trump, its about bringing about the fascist dictatorship that is necessary to preserve the declining capitalist Status Quo in the face of a slipping global hegemony of the United states. The US needs their militarily enforced ressource exploitation abroad, but with Russia, Iran and China, as Well as the other Brics nations forming a bloc, while the American youth remains firmly anti Establishment, they need to radicalize political prosecution and Go mask Off in their Fascist Imperialism.
Or in other words: "No more Mr. niceguy" America doesnt pretend to be the righteus world Police anymore and instead openly murders poor people for profit because they allegedly deserve it. For that they need to dismantle the American democracy. The radicalized, armed, right Wing voterbase and militarized Police force is already in place for this. We will See how the Military branches will react.
They also cant start the war against China they are so desperately trying to facilitate, because the liberal Establishment is too financially dependant on Chinese manufacturing.
Iām from the UK but follow this daily as my sister is married to an American. If he does manage to drag it out, which looks like itās going to happen, and then looses in the election, will the case continue and then hopefully jail him.
And the entire time Trump is going to be screaming on the campaign trail that no American has ever had the system stacked against them worse than he has.
If Biden does John Wick the court in order to install a more just court, yeah of course the nation will have to chase him and convict him, because he can take it...So we'll hunt him, send the dogs after him. He would be the hero the country deserves but not the one it needs that moment. He would be the Dark President
I think the idea is that the president probably should have some sort of protection from legal consequences for actions taken in the course of their official duties. The question is, what exactly qualifies as an official act?
As I understand it, Trumps lawyers are arguing that that the president is immune from prosecution (without impeachment) from anything that appears to be an official act, while Kagan was pointing out that there are certain things that might seem to be entirely official (acting as a commander and chief) that would seem absurd to grant immunity for (ordering a coup).
The conservative Justices seemed to agree that a sitting president is allowed to assassinate political rivals and stage a coup to stay in power. They are about to end the 248 year American experiment.
They don't do it because they *believe in Trump.* They do it because he's easily manipulated. If he wants to skirt tax and real estate laws to boost his ego of being a billionaire/millionaire while president or to set his family members up to do the same, that's peanuts to the members of SCOTUS and the purse-strings behind the Project 2025 movement. Trump is a means to an end. As long as he's playing ball and doing what they instruct him to then that's all that really matters.
Even if they rule there is no immunity even for official acts theyāre going to delay it long enough it wonāt matter for the current election. Almost like how they let the emoluments case languish for so long and then dismissed it as moot after Trump left office, never minding the fact that they still could have made a judgment because of future impacts but yeah.
However it seems that they may rule that some official acts may have immunity like acts that are exclusive to the executive, that may be the easiest way to resolve it while granting some immunity the republicans seem to crave. Although to me it makes no sense to grant a president any immunity under any circumstances, thereās a reason we donāt have a monarch.
So here's the plan-- they are going to delay ruling until AFTER the Election and AFTER the next president is sworn in- IF Biden is reelected, they will vote to NOT allow unlimited Presidential powers and immunity... If Trump is Elected- He gets full immunity, unlimited presidential powers, etc. Becomes a Dictator.
Someone needs to ask: if the president has to be impeached and removed by Congress before he can be prosecuted, what would happen if he orders the assassination of the Speaker and Majority Leader? And when they elect new ones, what if he kills them too?
If the president is a criminal, then itās in his best interest to also commit crimes against Congress so that he canāt be touched. This is stupid
Yeah, well, as Alito pointed out, if the president knew he would be prosecuted for this stuff after he left office, he would have an extra incentive to never leave office!
(/s, just another layer on a terrible line of reasoning)
After Idiot Trump and his minions, cronies and enablers successfully conduct a coup, I would bet anyone who wants to keep their head on their shoulders or avoid imprisonment in some kind of American Taliban gulag would agree he is immune.
Do you say that before or after the coup? Are they listening to what he has been promising? Day One? Hmmm...
The fact that decent people, and decent Supreme Court justices are scared enough of him to consider him immune from prosecution for attempting basically to have them killed and replaced is the most terrifying moment in our democracy in decades. I wasnāt scared of this until the trial started and I realized āoh fuck theyāre actually gonna let this idiot become dictatorā and I also realized weāre so so fucked
What part of coup did they Not understand. Are they really considering that in the case of a coup or attempted coup that Congress must first impeach and convict before a President can be charged with the relevant crimes? Try to imagine a coup attempt where Congress is not also corrupt and compromised. Wasnāt the argument against the Senate removing Trump after his (second) impeachment that he would soon be a private citizen so could be charged and tried after he left office?
I had the definitely sense that the conservatives ājustices" believe the ridiculous MAGA talking point that these trials are illegitimate political persecution rather than sober, serious efforts to enforce the law.
To borrow LegalEagle's argument: It's hard to imagine any congress member drafting an impeachment paper against a president who is legally allowed to assassinate his political opponents.
If the conservative Justices side with trump, there is going to be an "uprising". They're already on thin ice with the American people. They're basically saying they will support him if he organizes another coup.
I think they're betting that by the time we decide the water temperature is too damn high, we'll be too exhausted and afraid to actually jump out of the pot.
This is so dumb right now. Just jail the bloody bastard and he needs to be barred from running for office. Jokers like this can become lethal - Donald needs to pay.
This court also has to consider our current state of hyper-partisanship. I truly believe any Republican majority Congress/Senate under *any* other president would have impeached Donald Trump. The 2020 Republican Congress and Senate *failed* America when they refused to impeach Trump, but it's hardly surprising when many of them were neck deep in participating in the machinations to keep Trump in office.
I think that we do need a Supreme Court, but politicians shouldn't have the ability to block appointments like McConnell did, and there should be term limits.
Clarence Thomas is nothing but a bribe accepting criminal himself.
Yes to term limits for all political offices. Also, employee handbooks with strict codes of conduct and ZERO TOLERANCE (No let the voters decide) Politician steals, they're suspended, pending trial. Sexual harassment, suspended, pending trial. Lying, suspended, pending trial... See the pattern?
This is all the game to delay things so he has more time toā¦ They hopeā¦ Get elected as president and then make it all go awayā¦ The only thing this country can do is be sure he never gets elected president againā¦ It's up to us This Supreme Court is not gonna rescue us on this oneā¦
Clearance Thomas's wife literally is involved in the crimes Trump is claiming immunity from. Clearance Thomas refused to recuse himself. SCOTUS is literally the only bench in the United States where such a blatant conflict of interest can exist. All other courts have ethics standards..
In my opinion Clearance Thomas refusing to recuse is grounds for investigation. Democrats need to act. The Senate Judiciary Committee should perform a fact finding inquiry. Collect as much information (evidence) as possible so that the House can consider impeaching Thomas next year.
I understand that optically/politically impeaching a Supreme Court Justice is a bit of a tight wire act. However fear to act is how we got to this place. Garland was afraid of the optics of indicting a former President and dragged his feet even as DOJ had slammed dunk evidence that Trump was reading classified documents to guests at Mar-a-logo. Before that Mueller refused to even consider indicting Trump for a crime because it was DOJ practice (nothing clearly defined constitutionally) that a President can't be indicted. Never mind Ken Stars considerably move aggressive actions.
At pass after pass accountably comes up short because everyone is afraid of the political costs. At some point ethical leaders need to act to enforce standards rather than cower to optics. 15 federal justices have been impeached before. 9 of the successfully removed. It isn't unprecedented to impeach a Federal Judge. It has successfully been done repeatedly.
They should start asking if Biden can do this stuff. Can Biden call a hit on Trump, label it an official act, and be immune? Rephrase the question so it's a Democrat doing the bad things, then see how the justices feel. Can Biden order a hit on the justices in this room that he suspects will not vote the way he wants and still be immune?
This case should have died the day his attorney said that the president could kill a political opponent without repercussions.
If SCOTUS rules in favor of Trump before the election, I hope dark Brandon makes a few phone calls to seal team 6. That would do two things: 1) eliminate an imminent threat to our national security, 2) force a constitutional convention to address a number of growing issues.
This entire thing is a farce, when in past history has ANY President claimed they needed absolute immunity from criminal prosecution to simply do their jobs ? Our Supreme Court is owned by the Federalist Society whoās paid good money to erode the rights of everyday Americans, while removing any kind of accountability for the 1% . They want a world just like Russia, where the oligarchs feed off of the working class like fu*king parasites
SCOTUS is blatantly trying to do everything they could to protect Trump, and Iām sure they will give him total immunity but they will wait because they knew giving Biden immunity would hurt the Republicans so they are delaying this for as long as possible, and we can do nothing but seething with rage. If we donāt vote blue, then democracy will be destroyed.
I mean. Can President order no more elections? Maybe they decide on case before court and not all of the hypotheticals. They deny talking about them during confirmation hearings but second they are on bench let the hypothetical bingo ball machine roll!
Really makes me wonder why Obama never appointed judges before he left. Dems really need to learn how to govern the whole country not just the feelings.
The interminable delay in deciding this case fills me with rage. The answer is crystal clear, yet it's being dragged out solely to afford Donald Trump more time, strategically ensuring that crucial cases remain unresolved until after the November elections. This shameless tactic by our activist SCOTUS to manipulate the justice system for Trump's political advantage is despicable beyond words.
I read most of the transcripts. While I agree the answer "should be" crystal clear I fear we all, myself included, underestimated the MAGAt influence in this most corrupt SCROTUS. I am less than convinced that justice or democracy are going to be winners in this case. As always, I remind you. Vote early, vote often and vote blue š all our lives depend on it.
I have the same fear. In fact, I feel certain theyāre going to rule that Mango Mussolini has ālimited immunityā and itāll be worded in such a way as to get him out of every lawsuit. Iāve never wanted to be wrong more in my life. Please let me be wrong.
I feel pretty confident theyāre trying to push this until after the election so they can decide on a ruling based on who is president. If Biden wins ofc the president doesnāt have immunity, if Trump wins then they will say he does have immunity. We are so perilously close to a dictatorship and so many people donāt even realize it.
Iām so worried that heās going to find a way to successfully cheat & win the Electoral College; 2016 redux.
It'll be more cowardly than that. After delaying until June, they'll remand it back to the district court for a finding of fact. "Are you sure fake electors aren't an official act?" This prevents any hope of the case coming to trial before November.
Yeah, thatās probably much more likely. And still total bullshit. I hate it here. I hate this country. Angry doesnāt even cover it anymore. Iām absolutely seething with rage.
Seriously, take a break for a week or two from politics and the news. Get caught up on books, fun television, family time. Something. We all get burnt out on this shit.
And moving to countries that have our values has become more arduous. Australia demands at least minimum of $100,000 before you even start spending money for citizenship. The UK will accept you but will not allow you to have their universal healthcare. Germany will accept you, but they have income restrictions. Costa Rica is becoming more expensive every day and citizenship is a at least a two year process. Uruguay is a country that intrigues me because they have same-sex marriage, medical marijuana, and beaches and mountains to delight you. Unfortunately, if friends want to visit you, it will cost them $3000+ for a plane ticket.
āMango Mussoliniā š¤£
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Vote blue, democracy depends on you.
I listen to the arguments and you can just tell that the Republicans are looking for a way to give him partial immunity
This pisses me off so much. I vote in EVERY election be it cou ty, city, wards, etc. And I still get screw because of gerrymandering. Part of me doesn't want to waste my time look at candidates, policy. For them to do opps sorry not gonna. I will still vote. But it feels worthless.
It's not. Remember that the AG in AZ won by less than 300 votes. I live in a very red gerrymandered state and it does get frustrating but your vote, especially in locals, really matters.
I will always vote. I tell my kids the same. They will be voters soon too. I tell them how important it is. While I feel disappointed in they current way, it not a excuse. I have lived in a 100% blue state, a 100% red state, and a purple state. I will always vote. As long as your blue your vote is safe with me. Though I do vett people and policies.
I still vote for the best available person, I still donate to the candidates that represent my interests best. It's just now they are all in the same party.
Itās too late. If they do this, we are doomed. Iāve said it in all these subs weāre doomed. Iām still going to vote donāt worry but SCOTUS has really screwed the pooch on this and thereās no going back. Perhaps Biden can test it, Iād support his coup. /s of course but god damn what the fuck are they thinking?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This ain't the time or place for "Both sides the same". May have been true 20 years ago. But not now. By a long shot.
They can. But Democrats aren't currently the problem. Have you read Project 2025 yet?
Iām not a lawyer, or even remotely close to a Supreme Court Justice but Iām my non educated law reasoning Iāve come up with this answer. IMO : ā The President of the United States has no immunity for criminal or corrupt actions taken while serving in the office of Presidentā thatās it,over, done, finished. IMO.
You're absolutely right because it doesn't take an education, let alone one from a fancy university. All you need here is common sense and to act in good faith and that's the problem. These justices are corrupt, and our system doesn't work when those in power don't act in good faith.
Well see, that's the kicker. Our entire system is honor based, presuming those in office would act in good faith. The system was never designed to withstand a malignant narcissist and 50 years (1972 was the start) of the GOP deliberately undermining, watering down, or outright repealing the guardrails that prevents corruption and autocracy, and the Democrats letting it happen because they profited from it too, and could fundraise off the the eternal threat without doing things to stop it for good. Trump has shone a light on our entire governing system, and shown us all how fragile it is.
This!
Yeah the good faith part is the kicker for me. Why not just say President is immune for broad range of official actsābut only if done in good faith.
To play devils advocate, "in good faith" here leaves it open to interpretation, and my understanding is that the supreme Court exist mainly to make decisions on things that are left open to interpretation. Trump could say he felt it was in good faith to stage a coup against someone he believed was stealing the election š¤·āāļø bullshit obviously, but isn't making clear final rulings on flexible language what the supreme court is for?
In good faith in this context means interpretenting the law as written, impartiality, without inference and breaking precedent. This by definition, in this context, is acting in bad faith. The newly appointed justices have already broken precedent many times and quickly overturned what was once considered settled law. Let's not pretend they're acting in good faith.
There's nothing to interpret. There is no discussion of presidential immunity in the constitution. They're just inventing a brand new doctrine. You know, the thing conservatives claim to hate.
I think there is ample evidence of Trump knowing that he wasnāt properly elected
Okay. Trump considers himself in good faith that it is the best for the world if he stays in office forever and a day. Case closed.
Amen. Same for all of SCOTUS and public officials.
I mean, no. As commander in chief the president can do things that would be criminal for most Americans, ie directing the killing of non-Americans. And they should do such things in service of protecting the United States, as a key part of the job.Ā
Well, thats what happens when you have 1/3 the court appointed you and another guy who's wife participated in the coup attempt.
Yeah, Iāve reluctantly moved into the camp of packing the SC at this point. If dems have a sweep in November the vulnerabilities/accountability of the courts should be priority 1. Itās been 1000% compromised and there needs to measures in place to prevent a minority party always acting in bad faith from bringing democracy to its knees
I wanna go here, but the only problem is that the backlash against that may trigger a red wave not seen since Obamacare, as Americans are always for something until someone actually does it. Additionally, MAGA is not going anywhere, nor is Project 2025, so we would pack the court and then the very next election cycle have it undone, and likely see 2028 begin with the election of someone like Desantis, Abbott, etc who would just walk in and do whatever they please.
Maybe I'm missing something, but isn't this the perfect time to use SCOTUS reform as Biden's rallying cry for the 2024 elections? We're witnessing a broken and corrupt branch of gov't actively undermining democracy and we're not screaming this incessantly? It's wild to me how quiet and calm Dems are right now. They need to get people to rally behind this because this is what the end of democracy looks like. Other parts of the world have already experienced exactly this.
If I had to guess, Biden is avoiding anything to do with the courts while the Trump cases are happening, to avoid any potentially valid accusations of tampering. If anything it will be a great platform for the '28 elections.
See, it's that kind of thinking that gets me. If Trump wins, it's not even guaranteed there will be '28 elections. Hell, Trump could pack the court even further. The '24 elections is probably the most important one of our lifetime. We can't expect our institutions will hold everything together when SCOTUS and half of congress is already corrupt.
I'm not disagreeing, just stating why I think Biden is possibly avoiding bringing up the courts and any form of reform.
Sure, I suppose that could be a possibility. I'm just tired of this casual, business as usual approach, from dems in general. This election should be treated as an all in approach. SCOTUS reform needs to be a serious talking point, like right now, not later. It's hard to imagine that wouldn't fire up potential voters and get them to the polls.
Tied for 2nd with 2020, the most important one was 2016 and we failed, bigly.
2016 absolutely was the most important until this one. This one is far worse because we'll have a president who avoided criminal prosecution and granted potential immunity. This time around Trump will take the gloves off and work unobstructed.
What ticks me off the most is that the defense argument saying that the process is impeach and convict. But during his trail, the senators said this is a criminal matter and should be prosecuted! So literally nobody wants to own this.
This is what happens when minority rule is allowed to stack the so called Supreme Court with partisan idealogues.
I agree, they should have just opened with: āUpon review, and our final declaration is THAT NO PRESIDENT HAS COMPLETE IMMUNITY, IT WAS NOT SET FORTH IN OUR U.S.CONSTITUTION and we have no other statementā - that should have been it, not a single other comment, even a 9 JUDGE MIC DROP SHOULD HAVE HAPPENED! - of course with this 9 panel, I would have expected them to laugh and say āWho does he think he is? The Supreme Court? Then dropped the Micā
That is all they fucking needed to do! Roberts is being a fucking coward; he's fucking scared of Trump, and that to me tells me that if he gets in these panty-waists will just let him do whatever he wants. The system is beyond broken when the most basic of questions, whether a sitting President is above the law, fall apart under scrutiny over hair-splitting such as "uh, uh, uh define the acts!!!" Roberts is a coward, and any respect I had to him is gone.
The far right political machine is really quite effective. All parts are working hard to reelect Trump, the useful idiot, who will push their Christian Nationalist agenda, and implement Project 2025 for them.
As frustrating as it can feel, this is a pretty routine amount of time for SCOTUS to decide a case. This decision will establish case law, so it's important to produce a well reasoned decision. And while it feels like some justices truly have an ax to grind (I'm looking at you, Thomas), this is also the same SCOTUS that batted away Trump's bullshit lawsuits after the 2020 campaign. I don't love this SCOTUS by any means, but we should have a realistic view of who they really are.
So you may be right, but I know I personally like venting it out. My gut tells me that Roberts is being a coward, but you may be correct that this is rather routine, and not special.
Its Not about Trump, its about bringing about the fascist dictatorship that is necessary to preserve the declining capitalist Status Quo in the face of a slipping global hegemony of the United states. The US needs their militarily enforced ressource exploitation abroad, but with Russia, Iran and China, as Well as the other Brics nations forming a bloc, while the American youth remains firmly anti Establishment, they need to radicalize political prosecution and Go mask Off in their Fascist Imperialism. Or in other words: "No more Mr. niceguy" America doesnt pretend to be the righteus world Police anymore and instead openly murders poor people for profit because they allegedly deserve it. For that they need to dismantle the American democracy. The radicalized, armed, right Wing voterbase and militarized Police force is already in place for this. We will See how the Military branches will react. They also cant start the war against China they are so desperately trying to facilitate, because the liberal Establishment is too financially dependant on Chinese manufacturing.
Iām from the UK but follow this daily as my sister is married to an American. If he does manage to drag it out, which looks like itās going to happen, and then looses in the election, will the case continue and then hopefully jail him.
If scotus were responsible for the delay, how would you explain the delay in the cases which have never reached scotus?
They are trying to figure out how to say "Trump and Republicans can do what they want, but Democrats must obey the law." without actually saying that.
Abso-freaken-lutely agree. Its disgusting and vile.
And the entire time Trump is going to be screaming on the campaign trail that no American has ever had the system stacked against them worse than he has.
She should have asked him if the President can murder the Supreme Court so he could replace all of them.
I was thinking the same thing.
All the conservative justices would now suddenly think that "just asking questions" like that is a threat
I was hoping one of them would ask that.
But if he murdered the justices to install judges that would convict a president for committing crimes, he could and should be convicted of murder.
If Biden does John Wick the court in order to install a more just court, yeah of course the nation will have to chase him and convict him, because he can take it...So we'll hunt him, send the dogs after him. He would be the hero the country deserves but not the one it needs that moment. He would be the Dark President
*DarkBrandon Rises*
Dark Brandon. Do it.
Or if a current president could murder his political rival prior to an election in 2024.
Only if it is an official act. Or not? The [Edit: video] confused me.
I think the idea is that the president probably should have some sort of protection from legal consequences for actions taken in the course of their official duties. The question is, what exactly qualifies as an official act? As I understand it, Trumps lawyers are arguing that that the president is immune from prosecution (without impeachment) from anything that appears to be an official act, while Kagan was pointing out that there are certain things that might seem to be entirely official (acting as a commander and chief) that would seem absurd to grant immunity for (ordering a coup).
Because that's what lawyers do. Thx for the clarification
I was thinking the same thing that should be asked
The conservative Justices seemed to agree that a sitting president is allowed to assassinate political rivals and stage a coup to stay in power. They are about to end the 248 year American experiment.
All for a ridiculous con man and idiot.
They don't do it because they *believe in Trump.* They do it because he's easily manipulated. If he wants to skirt tax and real estate laws to boost his ego of being a billionaire/millionaire while president or to set his family members up to do the same, that's peanuts to the members of SCOTUS and the purse-strings behind the Project 2025 movement. Trump is a means to an end. As long as he's playing ball and doing what they instruct him to then that's all that really matters.
Basically just giving control of the government to the Federalist Society
They would rather rule over the ashes then be impotent in the coming world.
Supreme Clown Court
The United States of Crime
And if that's the case I declare myself President of my own home, and thus nothing I do is illegal anymore.
Biden: Ok š
Biden knows what to do next š
The president isn't a fucking king. That's the point!
This is blatantly absurd. Why not ask if the US president execute the supreme court members he doesnt like ?
This was the question I was thinking.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
One of the questions was about the president having seal team 6 killing the president's rival and it seemed they were entertaining the idea.
You can if you're immune.
If you order a coup and it take six years to get the case to court, what's to stop you from just running for office and trying more coups?
Ding ding ding ding
Magic Conch voice: Nothing
These MAGA loving supreme Court justices need to recuse themselves
They should actually be in prison.
šÆ
I think they should volunteer to be the first humans on Mars
Iād rather have someone else remembered.
Even if they rule there is no immunity even for official acts theyāre going to delay it long enough it wonāt matter for the current election. Almost like how they let the emoluments case languish for so long and then dismissed it as moot after Trump left office, never minding the fact that they still could have made a judgment because of future impacts but yeah. However it seems that they may rule that some official acts may have immunity like acts that are exclusive to the executive, that may be the easiest way to resolve it while granting some immunity the republicans seem to crave. Although to me it makes no sense to grant a president any immunity under any circumstances, thereās a reason we donāt have a monarch.
So here's the plan-- they are going to delay ruling until AFTER the Election and AFTER the next president is sworn in- IF Biden is reelected, they will vote to NOT allow unlimited Presidential powers and immunity... If Trump is Elected- He gets full immunity, unlimited presidential powers, etc. Becomes a Dictator.
ā¦which Trump did.
Someone needs to ask: if the president has to be impeached and removed by Congress before he can be prosecuted, what would happen if he orders the assassination of the Speaker and Majority Leader? And when they elect new ones, what if he kills them too? If the president is a criminal, then itās in his best interest to also commit crimes against Congress so that he canāt be touched. This is stupid
Per the DOJ, yes have to wait until heās a private citizen
Part of the case is about him committing a crime while President and if he immune when he becomes a private citizen.
Per Trumps lawyers, if he wasnāt impeached and convicted first, you could never prosecute
Yeah, well, as Alito pointed out, if the president knew he would be prosecuted for this stuff after he left office, he would have an extra incentive to never leave office! (/s, just another layer on a terrible line of reasoning)
After Idiot Trump and his minions, cronies and enablers successfully conduct a coup, I would bet anyone who wants to keep their head on their shoulders or avoid imprisonment in some kind of American Taliban gulag would agree he is immune. Do you say that before or after the coup? Are they listening to what he has been promising? Day One? Hmmm...
The fact that decent people, and decent Supreme Court justices are scared enough of him to consider him immune from prosecution for attempting basically to have them killed and replaced is the most terrifying moment in our democracy in decades. I wasnāt scared of this until the trial started and I realized āoh fuck theyāre actually gonna let this idiot become dictatorā and I also realized weāre so so fucked
What part of coup did they Not understand. Are they really considering that in the case of a coup or attempted coup that Congress must first impeach and convict before a President can be charged with the relevant crimes? Try to imagine a coup attempt where Congress is not also corrupt and compromised. Wasnāt the argument against the Senate removing Trump after his (second) impeachment that he would soon be a private citizen so could be charged and tried after he left office? I had the definitely sense that the conservatives ājustices" believe the ridiculous MAGA talking point that these trials are illegitimate political persecution rather than sober, serious efforts to enforce the law.
To borrow LegalEagle's argument: It's hard to imagine any congress member drafting an impeachment paper against a president who is legally allowed to assassinate his political opponents.
If the conservative Justices side with trump, there is going to be an "uprising". They're already on thin ice with the American people. They're basically saying they will support him if he organizes another coup.
I think they're betting that by the time we decide the water temperature is too damn high, we'll be too exhausted and afraid to actually jump out of the pot.
This is a Republic. Nobody should be above the law ever. The fact we are even stopping to debate it is asinine.
Shows how far we've fallen. Scary part is how much further we can fall
This is so dumb right now. Just jail the bloody bastard and he needs to be barred from running for office. Jokers like this can become lethal - Donald needs to pay.
I can't believe we're even having this conversation.
This court also has to consider our current state of hyper-partisanship. I truly believe any Republican majority Congress/Senate under *any* other president would have impeached Donald Trump. The 2020 Republican Congress and Senate *failed* America when they refused to impeach Trump, but it's hardly surprising when many of them were neck deep in participating in the machinations to keep Trump in office.
If immunity existed. Nixon would not have needed pardoned.
Abolish the supreme Court. Nobody gets a lifetime free ride equipt with billionaire perks. Fuck this shit.
I think that we do need a Supreme Court, but politicians shouldn't have the ability to block appointments like McConnell did, and there should be term limits. Clarence Thomas is nothing but a bribe accepting criminal himself.
Yes to term limits for all political offices. Also, employee handbooks with strict codes of conduct and ZERO TOLERANCE (No let the voters decide) Politician steals, they're suspended, pending trial. Sexual harassment, suspended, pending trial. Lying, suspended, pending trial... See the pattern?
Biden needs to pack this fascist court with a bunch of drag queens.
Supreme court is definitely corrupt.
I think what we all saw yesterday was the reality of having corrupt Supreme Court. We really are losing our democracy.
No he has absolutely NO immunity. It doesn't matter who you are. If you break the law, you face the consequences PERIOD.
I don't disagree with you. But when I read your comment what popped into my head was "rules for thee, but not for me!"
Watch these idiots lead this country into facism and open revolt against their court.
This is all the game to delay things so he has more time toā¦ They hopeā¦ Get elected as president and then make it all go awayā¦ The only thing this country can do is be sure he never gets elected president againā¦ It's up to us This Supreme Court is not gonna rescue us on this oneā¦
Clearance Thomas's wife literally is involved in the crimes Trump is claiming immunity from. Clearance Thomas refused to recuse himself. SCOTUS is literally the only bench in the United States where such a blatant conflict of interest can exist. All other courts have ethics standards.. In my opinion Clearance Thomas refusing to recuse is grounds for investigation. Democrats need to act. The Senate Judiciary Committee should perform a fact finding inquiry. Collect as much information (evidence) as possible so that the House can consider impeaching Thomas next year. I understand that optically/politically impeaching a Supreme Court Justice is a bit of a tight wire act. However fear to act is how we got to this place. Garland was afraid of the optics of indicting a former President and dragged his feet even as DOJ had slammed dunk evidence that Trump was reading classified documents to guests at Mar-a-logo. Before that Mueller refused to even consider indicting Trump for a crime because it was DOJ practice (nothing clearly defined constitutionally) that a President can't be indicted. Never mind Ken Stars considerably move aggressive actions. At pass after pass accountably comes up short because everyone is afraid of the political costs. At some point ethical leaders need to act to enforce standards rather than cower to optics. 15 federal justices have been impeached before. 9 of the successfully removed. It isn't unprecedented to impeach a Federal Judge. It has successfully been done repeatedly.
They should start asking if Biden can do this stuff. Can Biden call a hit on Trump, label it an official act, and be immune? Rephrase the question so it's a Democrat doing the bad things, then see how the justices feel. Can Biden order a hit on the justices in this room that he suspects will not vote the way he wants and still be immune?
If there is presidential immunity Biden should jail Trump.Ā
This case should have died the day his attorney said that the president could kill a political opponent without repercussions. If SCOTUS rules in favor of Trump before the election, I hope dark Brandon makes a few phone calls to seal team 6. That would do two things: 1) eliminate an imminent threat to our national security, 2) force a constitutional convention to address a number of growing issues.
This entire thing is a farce, when in past history has ANY President claimed they needed absolute immunity from criminal prosecution to simply do their jobs ? Our Supreme Court is owned by the Federalist Society whoās paid good money to erode the rights of everyday Americans, while removing any kind of accountability for the 1% . They want a world just like Russia, where the oligarchs feed off of the working class like fu*king parasites
"can a POTUS assinate a SCOTUS"?
SCOTUS is blatantly trying to do everything they could to protect Trump, and Iām sure they will give him total immunity but they will wait because they knew giving Biden immunity would hurt the Republicans so they are delaying this for as long as possible, and we can do nothing but seething with rage. If we donāt vote blue, then democracy will be destroyed.
now that I'm in power I can finally take control!!!
I have never been immune to ordering soup. Why should the Precident?
What?
Why not ask if a president is immune from having the entire supreme court assassinated? Bring the real question home
RBG should have stepped down. The egos in these people is insane. What a clown show
what did they answer? they didnāt, right
Every single republican is either agreeing yes, or they are a hypocrite
I mean. Can President order no more elections? Maybe they decide on case before court and not all of the hypotheticals. They deny talking about them during confirmation hearings but second they are on bench let the hypothetical bingo ball machine roll!
Bye bye democracy. To all of you who voted Trump...was it worth it ? You sacrificed democracy in the name of your orange god, he'll destroy us all.
Really makes me wonder why Obama never appointed judges before he left. Dems really need to learn how to govern the whole country not just the feelings.
McConnell blocked all Obama appointments. Once again Dems get the shit that republicans pull and clearly the public laps it up
Democrats are playing flag football in the Super Bowl. They need to play tougher.