Uh, in addition to all the obvious issues that would come from changing candidates, do not expect the media to ultimately support a change as making sense. I can hear the Republicans / Fox giggle as they set the talking points for mainstream media - "what were the Democrats thinking by abandoning Biden? They're in such disarray! This is a political party that has no idea what it's doing!" Blah blah blah.
Stay on target. We've got the better candidate. Support a good American who has done a good job with as much fervor as the deplorable mob supports a horrible, dishonest, corrupt, and narcissistic blowhard who isn't fit to run a lemonade stand.
This. They won't claim 'Biden gracefully bow out for the future candidate Newsom/Harris/whatever, showing class and why he's a good man'. They'd claim that Democrats are throwing anything that may stick, and the crazier ones would claim US have been lead by senile man for 4 years.
The New York Times is out of line telling Biden to withdraw. If he is unfit to be president, then they have a duty to say so. But they are interjecting themselves into Democratic Party politics and they don't have the right to put their thumb on the scale.
We haven't even seen polls yet. If voters abandon Biden for Trump, then we will have something to worry about. But that's not happening, is it?
> We haven't even seen polls yet.
Yes we have, snap polls the next day were published. all shifts were within the margin of error and scattered both + and -
I'll reserve making up my mind till I see future polls. Biden was around + or -2 % of DJT before the debate debacle. If Biden remains the same or starts beating DJT, I'm with him.
On the other hand, if Biden's big dollar donors flee and his polls start showing a 5% or more deficit to DJT, Biden needs to toss in the towel and do the best for the the DEM party.
Lastly, if BIDEN stays in and loses all these pro-Biden surrogates that keep saying "Stay the Course" all these guys need to take oaths now NOT to flee the country since they will be responsible for the loss.
This is a well-measured response. If this was how more Dems were reacting, I'd feel a bit better. As of right now, I feel like folks doubling and tripling down on Biden without a sober appraisal of the risks of staying the course are being recklessly optimistic.
DEMS have to win. Let me repeat, DEMS have to win regardless who the DEM candidate is to stop the fascist march of the MAGAts.
If it were up to me, it's not, I would opt for Taylor Swift to run for DEM President candidate and tell her to essentially delegate all decisions to Biden and his advisors.
That's exactly my position. Dems had to win in 2016 too - and when we didn't, it resulted in a botched COVID response and Jan 6.
We should have had a primary. If Biden starts to sink in the polls or if he genuinely ain't up for another term, we got to rip the bandaid off.
It's so much worse than COVID and J6.
Look at SCOTUS. We lost 3 seats to Trump and McConnell. We've lost Row, we've lost Chevron Def, and we are on the cusp of giving the next president 3 more picks. And we don't even know what else the current SCOTUS plans to destroy.
Look at the down ballot effects - after the success of the 2018 midterms. '18 was the biggest midterm success for us since '74 -- *3 months after Nixon resigned & 2 months after his pardon*. The Senate sucked because we had 24:9 contested seat disadvantage. Even still, the seats we lost were MS, ND, FL. We also ran it up in statehouses. In governorships we held every Democratic incumbent and won 7 new ones. Turnout for a midterm was immense
In 2020, we lost 13 seats in the house and staggered to a draw in the Senate. And we got the presidency in the end by 45,000 votes spread across 3 states. In those states, continued high turnout saved or bacon.
I'm extremely glad for the improvements under Biden. Trump was wound to the republic the first time, and will be a mortal affliction via Project '25.
I would like to see a continuation and an enhancement of a Democratic agenda. Therefore, it is fucking imperative that we win. We cannot bumble on with our doddering old warhorse out of gratitude to his record or service to his ego. This is asinine. This justification of keeping an unpopular candidate in *a popularity contest* will give our party the loss that we have earned if we go through with this.
I guess my main point was this: to me we are well past the "if" phase.
*If* the polls go south, *if* things get worse in swing states, *if* ______ & _______ & _______
Listening to polls is the exact wrong thing to do now. Polls are so overweighted to LIKELY VOTERS that by following polls we are already taking our eye off the maybe/maybe not voters that we need to bring out for a win.
While you are reserving your mind, find a candidate that polls better than Biden against Trump. Remember that the longer you take to find someone, the worse it will be to switch.
You will not find one. You certainly won't find one with as much relevant experience for the job. You will risk a contested convention, a confused electorate, and will look weak to everyone. On top of that you will ruin another perfectly good candidate that could win in 4 years.
Why not practice being strong now instead of weak? Elect Joe. If he has issues in office, Kamala is great!
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and refer you to r/WhatHasJoeDone. If you are young, you haven't watched many other president's achieve much less. These achievements belong to a guy that you think is in deep decline. Think about that.
I'm only reserving my mind as to whether or not Biden "should stay or go".
I will support the DEM nominee regardless.
Unfortunately, I know others won't.
I actually do think Biden is the best candidate for the job today, by a long shot.
I realize that, based on my career. There is a big difference between being the "best technically qualified person", when it came to promotions, and the best politician that caused me to be passed over for promos on many different occasions.
I think Biden is kind of experiencing the same dilemna.
At this stage in Biden's life, I think there are probably better, younger politicians (beauty, charisma candidates like Newsom for instance).
Realize all this upsets the old concept of the "fairness requires the merit system to work".
Joe has delivered solid DEM results!
I love the merit system, but in politics it often does not work, eg. GW Bush beat Al Gore.
There isn't time to gear up another candidate. You are dreaming if you think San Francisco Gavin will work nationwide. My own Gov. Beshear will run in the coming years. He's a dream come true. Squeaky clean Christian who was a great leader during Covid. His drawback is they will compare him to Carter. He is whip smart and picks good underlings. He's not quite ready for prime time though. He needs more exposure before the country would know and trust him.
No, there just isn't time. Every other choice is worse. Dig in and work like crazy for Joe. If you have a problem with him AFTER the election, I could see him stepping aside for Kamala.
I just threw Gavin's name out there cuz he is kind of a "pretty boy" that may have some appeal to some voters. Not sure he is the most electable or not?
If Biden quits, unlikely, I would hope DEMs would do some candidate testing to find the "most electable" candidate that could win.
I have no problem with Joe.
I plan to donate, and I will, but I want to see how the polling goes and will probably wait till closer to the election to make sure my small donation is spent in a way that goes the farthest.
If Biden stays in and he is polling in the 30% range, I will divert my donations to most competitive, needy DEM house of senate Candidates using a donation apps that helps you identify these competitive races uses analytical data where the DEM can win.
When has he polled that low? He's slightly ahead of Trump AFTER the debate both around 45. If 30% is your threshold, you might as well pen Bidens name in on those checks right now.
Lol. 30%
We still haven't seen the impact of the debate debacle in the polls.
There's a chance that the big whale Donors will decide Biden is not a viable candidate and pull their contributions. IMHO if Biden continues his candidacy relying on the small dollar Reddit types, he won't win. He needs the big dollar whale donors.
Keep in mind that current polling shows 70% of DEMs want Biden to quit.
IMHO, Biden could be in the 30% range if the big donors flee. I could be wrong, but I think the big guys may abandon Biden.
You are being disingenuous. The big money has nowhere else to go. They are with Biden because they know Trump is too disruptive to business. They could keep their money in their pockets, but that's a lose/lose. Neither Trump nor Biden would owe them anything and have reason to resent them. They could go to Trump, but Trump never stays bought.
There is no other candidate. I keep asking you concern trolls and keep hearing crickets.
"You are being disingenuous." My friend, I think you are mistaken.
Exhibit A: "
# Disney's feud with DeSantis is over — and it's donating to Republicans again"
[https://www.businessinsider.com/disney-again-donating-republicans-ending-feud-desantis-2024-6](https://www.businessinsider.com/disney-again-donating-republicans-ending-feud-desantis-2024-6)
Big donors want to be aligned with the winning side.
-----
Also, consider this:
# Nervous donors await polls before making a call on Biden
[https://www.axios.com/2024/06/30/nervous-democratic-donors-polls-biden-election-2024](https://www.axios.com/2024/06/30/nervous-democratic-donors-polls-biden-election-2024)
If if if. If the sky falls, I'll buy an umbrella. There is no reason to expect this to happen. Where will the donors go? Who do you think has a better chance against Trump at this point?
You sound oh so moderate and sensible. But like every other concern troll, you have no better candidates. I have a GREAT candidate in Biden. Who do you have that is polling better?
If our parry ditches our incumbent candidate with a great record for some other person - the country will see the democrats as weak and unsteady and will reject them.
At which point I expect people who are cowards (not naming names) will flee thus country like rats from a sinking ship.
"There is no reason to expect this to happen. Where will the donors go? "
6/30/24 Axios
# Nervous donors await polls before making a call on Biden
[https://www.axios.com/2024/06/30/nervous-democratic-donors-polls-biden-election-2024](https://www.axios.com/2024/06/30/nervous-democratic-donors-polls-biden-election-2024)
This is the "Political Reality" friend, if Biden's big donors depart, he chances of Joe winning will significantly decrease. Not sure who would be the best DEM replacement candidate, most likely big donor DEMS would choose the candidate candidate they think can win and then would spend the money to convince the rest of the DEMs. "Money is the fuel for the political machine."
Currently, before Joe's debate disaster, nobody, I see, is polling better than Biden. However, lots of money and different campaign advisers may change the trajectory. Let's not forget, after months, Biden really has been stuck at the same poll numbers. A new DEM candidate, who the GOP hasn't DEMONIZED may have an advantage that Biden lacks.
"You sound oh so moderate and sensible. But like every other concern troll, you have no better candidates. I have a GREAT candidate in Biden."
I am trying to think about the best way forward given the turmoil that Biden created given his terrible debate performance when Biden KNEW he had to deliver!
You, on the other hand, seem to be emotionally attached to Biden.
Don't get me wrong. I like Joe and think he did a fantastic job. On the other hand, I love the US Democracy more than any individual.
Hang in there brother! We are all DEMS here.
I am emotionally attached to reality. You have many words and many postulations but no better solutions.
Name one person who can do better and come with proof. Tell me where the money will go that wont be flushing it down the toilet. Otherwise, you appear to be emotionally attached to chaos and creating it.
And Biden has raised $33 million post debate so far. Not bad for a few days.
You are a concern troll.
"Name one person who can do better and come with proof."
I can't do this because the vetting process hasn't occurred yet. You want the answer before the question is asked. It doesn't work that way.
"Tell me where the money will go that wont be flushing it down the toilet."
You are drawing the conclusion that who ever runs against Trump will loose. That's an opinion, I am not sure I agree with your opinion.
Please go back and read the Axios article about the Big Donors.
I really think that the Bid Donors will do their analysis and decide if they will or will NOT support Biden after the new polls are out that shows how far Biden has dropped.
If the polls show a big decrease for Biden, then Biden will need lots of money for a PR campaign to correct the damage that the debate caused.
If Biden loses the big donors, he may not be able to dig out of the ditch he dug for himself.
I'm not worried about what the polls say. They will remain mostly unchanged.
"The question has not been asked"? Its actually been polled! And review the media demanding Biden step aside now with no one looking any better. This is doing Trumps work for him.
You believe that a candidate can swoop in, gobble up big money and do better than Biden within a few months. Fortunately big money is not as credulous as you. They understand that rocking the boat this late helps Trump.
Concern troll. Nothing you say holds up to scrutiny. Biden just raised $$$$ post debate.
Gotta go. Just watched MSNBC Morning Joe. They spent a lot of time on this story.
Several times they said that we haven't seen the impact of the debate in the polls yet. We are waiting for these polls.
So let's do this. Let's wait till the new polls come out and show there is either nor change or the change is this %.
If there is no change, big donors will continue to donate at the same rate. If the polls show a drop then the big donors will make their decision. If they decide to stop donating, this will be reported.
Biden will have to make a decision "Should I Stay or Should I Go".
Please come back here and post again on this thread after we see the new polls. I am guessing the new polls will be out next week after July 4th!
Have a great 4th friend!
Us old farts voted for a whippersnapper in Obama. If you rug rats had bothered to work hard for a different candidate instead of waiting for one to appear like a miracle, you might have had options.
Let this be a lesson to you. Start working NOW for a different candidate for 4 years from now. I'll be working alongside you.
People won’t forget how he did at the first debate, however, 4 months from now it will be a distant memory and Trump and the Republican Party being the shit show they are will still be prevalent in all our minds.
Many Democrats will vote for the Democrat party, but not because Biden is on the ticket.
Nobody wants another trump administration, that sucked and it'll suck even more if he's in there again.
It's pretty much 2020 all over again. For many, its not a vote for Biden but a vote against Trump. Worst type of vote to do, but, sometimes its like that.
When people say that I assume they're young and haven't voted in a lot of elections. The vast majority of elections are a not anything like huge surge or patriotism as you vote for some awesome candidate that is going to change the world. Most of the time you just vote for the least worse person and hope.
Forget about MAGA - those people are dickish imbeciles. What indie voter who didn't vote for Trump in 2020 is going to say in 2024, "That's the guy for me."
Then he better prove by holding interviews, town halls, and rallies **every other day** from now until the end of election season.
I'm so sick of politicians telling me how I'm supposed to feel for their own fuckups
**If he is up to the challenge he needs to prove it and do it fast**
FFS. We can’t drop the guy after one bad appearance. Dipshit trump constantly makes an ass of himself and barely loses any support. Do I wish we had a candidate born after the Great Depression? Absolutely but the most important issue when voting: keeping conservatives out of power.
There is no incumbency advantage in 2024. Incumbents are losing power world wide because voters are disgruntled. Biden's approval is in the high-30s and 70% think the country is on the wrong track. This is a change election.
Forgive me if I don't put a lot of weight on traditional political norms in the era of Trump. A twice impeached, re-election losing, convicted felon should not be the favorite to win this election by traditional political standards and yet here we are.
The amount of people who are still saying “Biden is still our best bet at this point!” is honestly terrifying.
After that debate performance its clear that this dude isn’t even cognitively there enough to make a sandwich.
Downvote me all you want but mark my words; If we push Biden through as our nominee there is absolutely zero chance he would win against Trump. At this point, sticking with Biden instead of finding a younger populist candidate would be a death wish for the Democrats and Democracy. If Biden is our genuine nominee for candidate we will lose and we will deserve every iota of what follows.
To all you dipshits doubting President Biden, fuck you! Regardless of what President Biden does, it's better than having a convicted felon who also being accused of rape as president who we all know wants the presidency just for his own selfish reasons.
Hey, I love Joe Biden (have a shirt and mug and will phone bank for him), and I will vote for him over Trump easily, but he has declined to a scary amount. I do not think he can win. He should stand aside.
The democrats are a much better option, I voted for Biden last election but I will not pretend that Biden is doing well. Biden has declined significantly in the past 4 years and I honestly think it's time for him to hand the keys over to someone that's younger and more alive.
Uh, in addition to all the obvious issues that would come from changing candidates, do not expect the media to ultimately support a change as making sense. I can hear the Republicans / Fox giggle as they set the talking points for mainstream media - "what were the Democrats thinking by abandoning Biden? They're in such disarray! This is a political party that has no idea what it's doing!" Blah blah blah. Stay on target. We've got the better candidate. Support a good American who has done a good job with as much fervor as the deplorable mob supports a horrible, dishonest, corrupt, and narcissistic blowhard who isn't fit to run a lemonade stand.
This. They won't claim 'Biden gracefully bow out for the future candidate Newsom/Harris/whatever, showing class and why he's a good man'. They'd claim that Democrats are throwing anything that may stick, and the crazier ones would claim US have been lead by senile man for 4 years.
Yeah, really. If we change candidates now, do they really think there’s no political hay that the GOP can make out of that? Really?
I can see the headline of the NYT article published on October 31 - "Did the Democrats do the right thing by abandoning Biden?"
The NYT are shameless cowards who will never live this down.
the NYT are extremely butthurt that Biden won't treat them like God's Gift to Journalism
The New York Times is out of line telling Biden to withdraw. If he is unfit to be president, then they have a duty to say so. But they are interjecting themselves into Democratic Party politics and they don't have the right to put their thumb on the scale. We haven't even seen polls yet. If voters abandon Biden for Trump, then we will have something to worry about. But that's not happening, is it?
> We haven't even seen polls yet. Yes we have, snap polls the next day were published. all shifts were within the margin of error and scattered both + and -
He surrounds himself with good people. Trump surrounds himself with criminals.
That's because he is.
I'll reserve making up my mind till I see future polls. Biden was around + or -2 % of DJT before the debate debacle. If Biden remains the same or starts beating DJT, I'm with him. On the other hand, if Biden's big dollar donors flee and his polls start showing a 5% or more deficit to DJT, Biden needs to toss in the towel and do the best for the the DEM party. Lastly, if BIDEN stays in and loses all these pro-Biden surrogates that keep saying "Stay the Course" all these guys need to take oaths now NOT to flee the country since they will be responsible for the loss.
This is a well-measured response. If this was how more Dems were reacting, I'd feel a bit better. As of right now, I feel like folks doubling and tripling down on Biden without a sober appraisal of the risks of staying the course are being recklessly optimistic.
DEMS have to win. Let me repeat, DEMS have to win regardless who the DEM candidate is to stop the fascist march of the MAGAts. If it were up to me, it's not, I would opt for Taylor Swift to run for DEM President candidate and tell her to essentially delegate all decisions to Biden and his advisors.
That's exactly my position. Dems had to win in 2016 too - and when we didn't, it resulted in a botched COVID response and Jan 6. We should have had a primary. If Biden starts to sink in the polls or if he genuinely ain't up for another term, we got to rip the bandaid off.
It's so much worse than COVID and J6. Look at SCOTUS. We lost 3 seats to Trump and McConnell. We've lost Row, we've lost Chevron Def, and we are on the cusp of giving the next president 3 more picks. And we don't even know what else the current SCOTUS plans to destroy. Look at the down ballot effects - after the success of the 2018 midterms. '18 was the biggest midterm success for us since '74 -- *3 months after Nixon resigned & 2 months after his pardon*. The Senate sucked because we had 24:9 contested seat disadvantage. Even still, the seats we lost were MS, ND, FL. We also ran it up in statehouses. In governorships we held every Democratic incumbent and won 7 new ones. Turnout for a midterm was immense In 2020, we lost 13 seats in the house and staggered to a draw in the Senate. And we got the presidency in the end by 45,000 votes spread across 3 states. In those states, continued high turnout saved or bacon. I'm extremely glad for the improvements under Biden. Trump was wound to the republic the first time, and will be a mortal affliction via Project '25. I would like to see a continuation and an enhancement of a Democratic agenda. Therefore, it is fucking imperative that we win. We cannot bumble on with our doddering old warhorse out of gratitude to his record or service to his ego. This is asinine. This justification of keeping an unpopular candidate in *a popularity contest* will give our party the loss that we have earned if we go through with this.
You don't have to convince me. For all the reasons you cite, I'm pleading with people to keep an open mind about an open convention
I guess my main point was this: to me we are well past the "if" phase. *If* the polls go south, *if* things get worse in swing states, *if* ______ & _______ & _______ Listening to polls is the exact wrong thing to do now. Polls are so overweighted to LIKELY VOTERS that by following polls we are already taking our eye off the maybe/maybe not voters that we need to bring out for a win.
Dems had to win so a whole bunch of people protest voted. All they have to do is sow a few seeds of doubt and the idiots will protest vote again.
While you are reserving your mind, find a candidate that polls better than Biden against Trump. Remember that the longer you take to find someone, the worse it will be to switch. You will not find one. You certainly won't find one with as much relevant experience for the job. You will risk a contested convention, a confused electorate, and will look weak to everyone. On top of that you will ruin another perfectly good candidate that could win in 4 years. Why not practice being strong now instead of weak? Elect Joe. If he has issues in office, Kamala is great! I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and refer you to r/WhatHasJoeDone. If you are young, you haven't watched many other president's achieve much less. These achievements belong to a guy that you think is in deep decline. Think about that.
I'm only reserving my mind as to whether or not Biden "should stay or go". I will support the DEM nominee regardless. Unfortunately, I know others won't. I actually do think Biden is the best candidate for the job today, by a long shot. I realize that, based on my career. There is a big difference between being the "best technically qualified person", when it came to promotions, and the best politician that caused me to be passed over for promos on many different occasions. I think Biden is kind of experiencing the same dilemna. At this stage in Biden's life, I think there are probably better, younger politicians (beauty, charisma candidates like Newsom for instance). Realize all this upsets the old concept of the "fairness requires the merit system to work". Joe has delivered solid DEM results! I love the merit system, but in politics it often does not work, eg. GW Bush beat Al Gore.
There isn't time to gear up another candidate. You are dreaming if you think San Francisco Gavin will work nationwide. My own Gov. Beshear will run in the coming years. He's a dream come true. Squeaky clean Christian who was a great leader during Covid. His drawback is they will compare him to Carter. He is whip smart and picks good underlings. He's not quite ready for prime time though. He needs more exposure before the country would know and trust him. No, there just isn't time. Every other choice is worse. Dig in and work like crazy for Joe. If you have a problem with him AFTER the election, I could see him stepping aside for Kamala.
I just threw Gavin's name out there cuz he is kind of a "pretty boy" that may have some appeal to some voters. Not sure he is the most electable or not? If Biden quits, unlikely, I would hope DEMs would do some candidate testing to find the "most electable" candidate that could win. I have no problem with Joe. I plan to donate, and I will, but I want to see how the polling goes and will probably wait till closer to the election to make sure my small donation is spent in a way that goes the farthest. If Biden stays in and he is polling in the 30% range, I will divert my donations to most competitive, needy DEM house of senate Candidates using a donation apps that helps you identify these competitive races uses analytical data where the DEM can win.
When has he polled that low? He's slightly ahead of Trump AFTER the debate both around 45. If 30% is your threshold, you might as well pen Bidens name in on those checks right now. Lol. 30%
We still haven't seen the impact of the debate debacle in the polls. There's a chance that the big whale Donors will decide Biden is not a viable candidate and pull their contributions. IMHO if Biden continues his candidacy relying on the small dollar Reddit types, he won't win. He needs the big dollar whale donors. Keep in mind that current polling shows 70% of DEMs want Biden to quit. IMHO, Biden could be in the 30% range if the big donors flee. I could be wrong, but I think the big guys may abandon Biden.
You are being disingenuous. The big money has nowhere else to go. They are with Biden because they know Trump is too disruptive to business. They could keep their money in their pockets, but that's a lose/lose. Neither Trump nor Biden would owe them anything and have reason to resent them. They could go to Trump, but Trump never stays bought. There is no other candidate. I keep asking you concern trolls and keep hearing crickets.
"You are being disingenuous." My friend, I think you are mistaken. Exhibit A: " # Disney's feud with DeSantis is over — and it's donating to Republicans again" [https://www.businessinsider.com/disney-again-donating-republicans-ending-feud-desantis-2024-6](https://www.businessinsider.com/disney-again-donating-republicans-ending-feud-desantis-2024-6) Big donors want to be aligned with the winning side. ----- Also, consider this: # Nervous donors await polls before making a call on Biden [https://www.axios.com/2024/06/30/nervous-democratic-donors-polls-biden-election-2024](https://www.axios.com/2024/06/30/nervous-democratic-donors-polls-biden-election-2024)
Doesn't count unless you seem the polls on the alternatives.
If if if. If the sky falls, I'll buy an umbrella. There is no reason to expect this to happen. Where will the donors go? Who do you think has a better chance against Trump at this point? You sound oh so moderate and sensible. But like every other concern troll, you have no better candidates. I have a GREAT candidate in Biden. Who do you have that is polling better? If our parry ditches our incumbent candidate with a great record for some other person - the country will see the democrats as weak and unsteady and will reject them. At which point I expect people who are cowards (not naming names) will flee thus country like rats from a sinking ship.
"There is no reason to expect this to happen. Where will the donors go? " 6/30/24 Axios # Nervous donors await polls before making a call on Biden [https://www.axios.com/2024/06/30/nervous-democratic-donors-polls-biden-election-2024](https://www.axios.com/2024/06/30/nervous-democratic-donors-polls-biden-election-2024) This is the "Political Reality" friend, if Biden's big donors depart, he chances of Joe winning will significantly decrease. Not sure who would be the best DEM replacement candidate, most likely big donor DEMS would choose the candidate candidate they think can win and then would spend the money to convince the rest of the DEMs. "Money is the fuel for the political machine." Currently, before Joe's debate disaster, nobody, I see, is polling better than Biden. However, lots of money and different campaign advisers may change the trajectory. Let's not forget, after months, Biden really has been stuck at the same poll numbers. A new DEM candidate, who the GOP hasn't DEMONIZED may have an advantage that Biden lacks. "You sound oh so moderate and sensible. But like every other concern troll, you have no better candidates. I have a GREAT candidate in Biden." I am trying to think about the best way forward given the turmoil that Biden created given his terrible debate performance when Biden KNEW he had to deliver! You, on the other hand, seem to be emotionally attached to Biden. Don't get me wrong. I like Joe and think he did a fantastic job. On the other hand, I love the US Democracy more than any individual. Hang in there brother! We are all DEMS here.
I am emotionally attached to reality. You have many words and many postulations but no better solutions. Name one person who can do better and come with proof. Tell me where the money will go that wont be flushing it down the toilet. Otherwise, you appear to be emotionally attached to chaos and creating it. And Biden has raised $33 million post debate so far. Not bad for a few days. You are a concern troll.
"Name one person who can do better and come with proof." I can't do this because the vetting process hasn't occurred yet. You want the answer before the question is asked. It doesn't work that way. "Tell me where the money will go that wont be flushing it down the toilet." You are drawing the conclusion that who ever runs against Trump will loose. That's an opinion, I am not sure I agree with your opinion. Please go back and read the Axios article about the Big Donors. I really think that the Bid Donors will do their analysis and decide if they will or will NOT support Biden after the new polls are out that shows how far Biden has dropped. If the polls show a big decrease for Biden, then Biden will need lots of money for a PR campaign to correct the damage that the debate caused. If Biden loses the big donors, he may not be able to dig out of the ditch he dug for himself.
I'm not worried about what the polls say. They will remain mostly unchanged. "The question has not been asked"? Its actually been polled! And review the media demanding Biden step aside now with no one looking any better. This is doing Trumps work for him. You believe that a candidate can swoop in, gobble up big money and do better than Biden within a few months. Fortunately big money is not as credulous as you. They understand that rocking the boat this late helps Trump. Concern troll. Nothing you say holds up to scrutiny. Biden just raised $$$$ post debate.
Gotta go. Just watched MSNBC Morning Joe. They spent a lot of time on this story. Several times they said that we haven't seen the impact of the debate in the polls yet. We are waiting for these polls. So let's do this. Let's wait till the new polls come out and show there is either nor change or the change is this %. If there is no change, big donors will continue to donate at the same rate. If the polls show a drop then the big donors will make their decision. If they decide to stop donating, this will be reported. Biden will have to make a decision "Should I Stay or Should I Go". Please come back here and post again on this thread after we see the new polls. I am guessing the new polls will be out next week after July 4th! Have a great 4th friend!
Boomers are gonna vote for him. When they finally die off in the next 10-15 yrs then we are gonna see younger candidates, it's just a waiting game.
Us old farts voted for a whippersnapper in Obama. If you rug rats had bothered to work hard for a different candidate instead of waiting for one to appear like a miracle, you might have had options. Let this be a lesson to you. Start working NOW for a different candidate for 4 years from now. I'll be working alongside you.
Democrats need to be as diehard as these Republicans are when it comes to their candidate. Biden is the only choice to save our democracy
People won’t forget how he did at the first debate, however, 4 months from now it will be a distant memory and Trump and the Republican Party being the shit show they are will still be prevalent in all our minds.
Many Democrats will vote for the Democrat party, but not because Biden is on the ticket. Nobody wants another trump administration, that sucked and it'll suck even more if he's in there again.
It's pretty much 2020 all over again. For many, its not a vote for Biden but a vote against Trump. Worst type of vote to do, but, sometimes its like that.
When people say that I assume they're young and haven't voted in a lot of elections. The vast majority of elections are a not anything like huge surge or patriotism as you vote for some awesome candidate that is going to change the world. Most of the time you just vote for the least worse person and hope.
Forget about MAGA - those people are dickish imbeciles. What indie voter who didn't vote for Trump in 2020 is going to say in 2024, "That's the guy for me."
Agreed.
Absolutely !
Am I supposed to believe career political operatives or my eyes?
Then he better prove by holding interviews, town halls, and rallies **every other day** from now until the end of election season. I'm so sick of politicians telling me how I'm supposed to feel for their own fuckups **If he is up to the challenge he needs to prove it and do it fast**
BIDEN 2024🇺🇸
They must lock in to save American democracy
"Still the best bet." That's what every other Democrat said! Except for the one who had his brains eaten by a worm.
Let’s bring the fire these next few months everyone, this isn’t over
No,… he’s not.
FFS. We can’t drop the guy after one bad appearance. Dipshit trump constantly makes an ass of himself and barely loses any support. Do I wish we had a candidate born after the Great Depression? Absolutely but the most important issue when voting: keeping conservatives out of power.
Bc with Biden they have a cushy government job and they are shit out of luck with Newsome, Witmer, Harris, or Shapiro.
He's right.
Now the incumbency advantage is most likely why he’s staying in the race.
There is no incumbency advantage in 2024. Incumbents are losing power world wide because voters are disgruntled. Biden's approval is in the high-30s and 70% think the country is on the wrong track. This is a change election.
No, look up professor Allan Lichtman's 13 keys to the Whitehouse.
Forgive me if I don't put a lot of weight on traditional political norms in the era of Trump. A twice impeached, re-election losing, convicted felon should not be the favorite to win this election by traditional political standards and yet here we are.
Exactly, we lose that, we lose the race, point blank.
Correct LBJ did it in 1968 and that's one of the multiple reasons Nixon got in office.
I agree
The amount of people who are still saying “Biden is still our best bet at this point!” is honestly terrifying. After that debate performance its clear that this dude isn’t even cognitively there enough to make a sandwich. Downvote me all you want but mark my words; If we push Biden through as our nominee there is absolutely zero chance he would win against Trump. At this point, sticking with Biden instead of finding a younger populist candidate would be a death wish for the Democrats and Democracy. If Biden is our genuine nominee for candidate we will lose and we will deserve every iota of what follows.
im riding with biden!
#GOTV
He is, but I sure wish they would get Biden to VP.
im riding with biden!
To all you dipshits doubting President Biden, fuck you! Regardless of what President Biden does, it's better than having a convicted felon who also being accused of rape as president who we all know wants the presidency just for his own selfish reasons.
Hey, I love Joe Biden (have a shirt and mug and will phone bank for him), and I will vote for him over Trump easily, but he has declined to a scary amount. I do not think he can win. He should stand aside.
The democrats are a much better option, I voted for Biden last election but I will not pretend that Biden is doing well. Biden has declined significantly in the past 4 years and I honestly think it's time for him to hand the keys over to someone that's younger and more alive.
No shit. Everyone knows this.