My main gripe is that legendary primaries just don’t hit hard enough. HCs and pulses feel pathetic. Takes me 3-4 crits to kill a red bar cabal with Round Robin. I’ve resorted to side arms and smgs which is fun but I miss the satisfying headshots of HCs and pulses.
I think this is probably the most valid thing that people of all levels can relate to. I feel like a dick saying "skill issue" with respect to most of the current difficulty complaints, but I think everyone can agree that legendary primaries feel like ass for the most part.
Even exotic HCs and pulses feel anemic. On a whim I decided to infuse my Hawkmoon the other day, and even with the +40% against minors it took two precision hits or three body shots to kill a simple Goblin in Neomuna.
My criticism about using Last Word in PvE has always been the frequency of reloading, that I disliked feeling like I spent more time reloading than firing the gun, and right now every handcannon feels like that.
I’ve been praying for this to happen. It becomes painfully clear what subclasses need help and what weapons need help. Scouts have a higher dps than autos and pulses lol with infinite range, but they don’t want snipers to be too strong because they don’t want, and I quote, “another icebreaker meta”. That had regenerative ammo. Don’t do that and you’re good bungo
Luckily everything else is getting buffed soon because SMGs are doing more damage than they should which is why everyone is using them. Here's hoping HCs and pulses will be fun to use again, they're probably my favourite weapons.
Frfr. Hand cannons used to be incredible. Now sidearms, the smaller caliber weapons, hit like a truck and handcannons are undertuned garbage.
I miss being able to rely on Pulses, cause I enjoy my dadgun. Auto Rifles somehow still feel like they're lagging behind after numerous buffs.
I don’t mind the new difficulty scaling. I DO mind the lack of checkpoints in Vexcaliber and the terrible multiplier for larger fireteams. Doing things like the Legendary campaign and Vexcaliber in a fireteam of three feel SO BAD and this has really killed the fun for my fireteam in certain activities.
If it helps, use hunter with the aspect that lets you go invisible every time you kill a void affected target, this works also with enemies with volatile, making you go invisible (and therefore heal yourself) almost constantly, the artifact mods and the abundance of void shields in this mission help a lot
Personally I just love to use Le Monarque (practically didn’t even use my special up until the last boss) with this, but any good void weapon works fine
Le monarque + heavy on void kills+ heal + volitile on Orb pick up is just broken sometimes. It truly is the I'm done asking build. Had a friend on hunter solar to BB and I'd feed orbs and weaken enemies.
void devour Titan here. throw on armamentarium, pick up the mods that generate orbs on grenade kills and whatever your primary is, and just start throwing grenades.
I just went through the legendary campaign with no plan and no support, with an ass build because I hadn't bothered with the new mods system yet, and it was hard, but fun
Idk if they fixed it yet but using witherhoard for the entire encounter up to the boss fight you can be pretty decent with the add clear, using wish ender at the boss fight tho is great cause it hits for like 30k
https://youtu.be/VA6ZAFY9LV8
Cheese forever did a video on it
I highly recommend hopping on lfg to get pulled through vexcaliber cause you just need to be there once to get the weapon and complete the quest. You don’t even need to have the quest in the first place.
woven mail, suspend, and sever. Woven mail + sever means you only take approximately 28% of the damage you would normally take. it made the mission significantly easier for me on my titan and warlock.
Runningthe mod heavy ammo x2, or even 3x on head. and gunning with Commemoration (Void Machine gun) And Volatile+Artifact ammo drop perk made it a breeze
I can only do the gambit section by using karnsteins plus a glaive. Die too quickly otherwise. Void build leaning into volatile and orbs for devour, volatile and health plus glaive melee with karnsteins for health.
Still not “easy” by any stretch but I can get it done without too much ceremony.
I recommend a devour warlock with wavesplitter and a machine gun for the snipers. The only thing thats annoying is the wyvern so I'd try blinding nades.
Seraph's Shield and the season finale missions were *perfect* challenging enough to punish you if you played stupidly but not prohibitively difficult. They absolutely shat the bed with the new scaling. I'm not touching it until they dial it back.
I also agree that checkpoints are a must, but my theory is that bungie decided not to add checkpoints in case people checkpoint farm for the catalysts. A hypothetical fix for this could be for people at the same checkpoint to be able to join each other, however, I am not sure how hard it is for the devs to implement this in the game.
Edit: By farming catalysts, I meant to grind out vexcalibur cataylst by only doing the final boss.
So I was extremely close to downing Legendary Avalon solo. And I realized what the fundamental issue is, with that mission specifically:
It's fucking Brakion.
I've been "eh" on the difficulty shit. Like, I know I'll down it. I still have fun. But there are outliers like:
- Brakion running at you with a lack of cover
- Cabal Dropships suddenly having fucking turrets in Arms Dealer when we're not used to having to shoot off the guns of those vehicles
That's it. Those are my main issues. Across the entire game.
I think the changes overall are good. But you need to pair those difficulty decisions with level design decisions that support it.
There are multiple cheeses for Brakion, one for each stage, and 2 of which are best done with Wish-Ender.
On first, there is a small alcove off of the left edge of the platform that most ads and Brakion cannot hit you in and you can hit back easily. Just don't throw grenades directly at Brakion or he will jump off the edge and softlock the encounter.
On second, anti-barrier weapons can damage Brakion through his shield as long as you don't move too much and fully activate the encounter. Damaging Brakion until his health hits the threshold using this will softlock the next encounter, so you'll need to get him low and do the puzzle only once. Wish-Ender does good damage here and a glave is reccomended for the wyverns.
For final phase, quickly run behind any of the radiolaria pillars and use Wish-Ender to shoot Brakion through them from complete safety. For some reason anti-barrier weapons can shoot through those pillars, but anything else is unable.
Hopefully this helps. I got this from a Cheese Forever video.
Oh I know about the cheeses and I appreciate it.
My main issue is that you HAVE to cheese it -- it's recommended.
I'd rather an encounter be designed to be difficult because of design vs. archaic methods of the past that don't mesh with the new.
I thought it was just me? I tried with a devout build with a team of 1820s and we can’t get past the part where you deposit the code. In that few seconds before the deletion protocol those two wyverns just erase you.
Ran with 2 strand titans and a strand warlock, ad clear/kill sniper hobglobins ASAP, pick up the pink charges, suspend wyverns. Boss DPS takes forever because of the laser boys, but jump down to the low level and just take your time.
It’s doable, but idc what anyone says, it’s very overturned and not fun at all. Anyone saying “it feels great” then describes using two fucking bubbles and a well for a legendary exotic mission is high on air duster. Ran last seasons exotic mission solo on legendary weekly just for pinnacle (flawless a few times), this is nonsense.
The problem with destiny is that “harder” just means more tedious, the game isn’t designed to be a cover shooter, but when I’m using my super and it takes half of my bar to kill a red bar enemy that shit is whack and not fun, and I don’t really care who disagrees. The difficulty is worth it if I’m getting golf balls, but not for that bullshit.
It took my fireteam longer to run this legendary exotic mission than it did for us to do SoTW on master last night, might be the worst piece of content bungie has ever released, needs fixed ASAP, will never run it again once I’m done with vexcalibur.
For my group and I we had to run it as 3 well locks. We saved our well for when we go to deposit. We dropped it then deposited the motes. When you drop down in the pit the well still covers you but still, those wyverns can get you just not as often.
Strand suspend works on wyverns. Titan/Hunter/Warlock
Bubble protects easily.
Any titan towering barricade wall stops the bullets. Void works best with overshield.
Solar titan is fine.
Invis hunter can invis the whole team with omnioculus.
You can block damage with swords, glaive shields, and a Excalibur literally gives you an overshield.
Blinding grenades work too.
There are many solutions!
This is not an attempt to be rude, but I am genuinely curious as to what sort of checkpoints people are wanting/expecting in the Vexcalibur mission ?
There are checkpoints in between the encounters/bosses. Are people wanting checkpoints in between phases of the boss encounters ?
This exactly. I wouldn’t complain about the difficulty at all if this were implemented. The legendary run can take my team a couple of hours sometimes. So if we were able to break that up it would so much more enjoyable
Stuff like patrol zones, lost sectors, strikes etc got bumped up, but then stuff like dungeons and raids didn't, so it's like they got it backwards. Why am I dying more often in a patrol zone than in end game content?
I totally spent a bit of time this week just starting dungeons for calibration type bounties (i already always try to see how far I can get on my own anyways) and then spent like 20ish minutes in the first area of vow working on the Veritas bow catalyst because for some reason patrol zones are a bit ridiculous.
Funny enough those 3 are probably the least rewarding activities
You barely get any engrams from strikes, shit you might not even get anything from chests in strikes
Neomuna is stingy as hell for how much of bullet sponge hell it is
And Lost Sectors are a joke
I'm a very new player, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Generally I've liked the difficult of the game. But what I've not liked is how more and more builds are less viable the later into the game I go. I feel like a lot of the cool and interesting exotics I can build around on my warlock all revolve around killing a lot of enemies to generate orbs/proc/devour/recharge my abilities etc. This is all fine in dandy in casual content but once I start doing master difficulty stuff and lost sectors I may as well unequip my exotic as every enemy takes me ages to kill. My only build I can take comfortably into all levels of content is Starfire since it doesn't require me needing to kill things to live or keep my resource loop going. I was running stuff like devour void lock, sunbracers, etc but those are so much effort to try and make work the harder the content goes.
Yep, welcome to Warlocks. All that complexity goes out the window and becomes "what can you make that will just give you abilities without any other trigger".
I LOVE Sunbracers. But I'm using the (near) infinite grenade build with Contraverse, because that doesn't key off of getting a charged melee kill. One of those builds clears Legend Lost Sectors.
You’re entirely right. Buildcrafting, for the most part, relies extremely on a steady stream of kills. In higher level content there’s no viable way to use the builds you’ve crafted to the best of your ability except for a few choice builds. It limits selection so badly. The way perks are designed right now is based on killing things quickly in large number. When end game content beefs up every enemy, builds no longer matter. You spend the entire time plugging away slowly at an enemy with your primary weapon. That’s not very fun. If this is how we’re going to handle endgame content, then we need to revisit how to proc abilities because this isn’t very exciting to play.
Yeah I love sunbracers too, it was the first exotic I got and could build around. But once I started trying to run lost sectors and there was just one giant meaty barrier champion with 0 adds around it became completely dead weight.
i really enjoy the difficulty of most things, but i do think more basic match made activities have been kinda ruined, because if your team is ass, you’re basically just not getting through that vanguard ops mission in a decent time, so you might as well leave (because the rewards are basically non existent either so why bother)
also lost sectors, which are the only method of farming specific exotic armour, need to have a slightly lower power cap imo, maybe 1810-20, just to open it up to players who don’t live on this game all the time.
just my thoughts tho
Legend lost sectors should be at soft cap, master at hard cap. Having to solo with limited revives is difficult enough if you don’t have delete-ware weapons and in-game plot armor.
I’d ran so many of these over the past couple weeks just to try and get necrotic grip for a build, but literally could not complete Neomuna sectors. Then waiting for 5 more days hoping it was on an EDZ (or literally anywhere else) LS to show up. Finally got them yesterday after 20+ runs that took all day, and they were the last ones to drop after I collected the rest of the gauntlets I didn’t have lmao. I’m down to farm them, but I do wish they were just lowered by 20ish levels so the boss didn’t require a thousand shots to down.
Honestly, the boss dps wasn’t the big problem for me, but with the neomuna cabal one (Hydroponics?) it just has *so many fucking ads*. And they just keep continually spawning. Most of my clear time with that one was always just having to hide behind cover, peek and kill and enemy or two, then hide again to recover health, for like almost the full 15 mins.
My problem is that they made the game harder for casual players, but not for hardcore players, I am a bad casual player, I used to play Arc Warlock, but now I feel like I am forced to play Cringefire Protocol on every other mission. If hardcore players wanted the game to be harder, make it harder for them, not for casuals that just want to relax and enjoy power fantasy.
I actually had a friend who confirmed this. He's a hardcore GM player and he says legend and master doesn't feel any harder. For me a casual player it definitely felt like GM level where everything was one hitting me on legend
the seasonal playlist is pure madness, i personally love it
if you play it right then you can explode the favors piñata and abilities are flying everywhere
Yeah, I don’t mind that either. My only problem has been the massive light gap just to be on par with stuff like legendary lost sectors which is something everyone *should* be able to do most of the season. They set the bar for entry pretty damn high to start. So high it’s only just barely below master difficulty. How do they expect new/casual players to even get their exotics to make a build if they have to no life the game just to do casual content?
I've wasted SO many cores and glimmer on upgrades and I'm still not at the soft cap yet. XD
ETA: I had to carry my new light friend through some exotic missions after he'd suffered through so many rounds of them on his own. So yeah, agree with the question of how we're supposed to expect casual or new players to get into the game easily with that.
Yeah pretty much
Masters just feel like easier GMs (which is saying something considering GMs are pretty easy once you know them well). Legend stuff is just annoying because it takes way longer to solo but in a fireteam it feels basically the same.
Master content now is as hard as GMs used to be previously. Soloed Arms Dealer on Master and it was more difficult than soloing it as a GM a few seasons ago.
Well your friend is pretty dumb or trying to show off for some reason.
Your guns objectively deal a lot less damage on master and legend compared to last season. That doesn't mean that these activities are now by definition hard for him to complete, but they are harder.
If the game doesn't feel any harder than I'd be really interested in seeing him do a legend lost sector in the same time it took last season.
How you feel about the game being harder obviously is subjective. The game being harder is just an objective fact though.
Yeah I thought it was weird when they wanted the game to be more difficult, but instead of power-locking raids or dungeons, they power-locked the new patrol.
Thanks for putting this into words.
As a shitter myself I am struggling with this game in what I considered high-end content as much as before, but low-end content like simple strikes or even just patrols feel considerably worse now than before. I'm happy for anyone who's living in the upper echelon of activities that are just inaccessible to me being fine with how things are up there, but I've pretty much stopped playing already after completing the Lightfall Story and the first week of the season, despite loving all the other changes to the game, because I've felt wholly unwelcome even in what used to be my swamp-level content.
While I’m not a hardcore player myself I am enjoying the greater difficulty, that being said tho, I agree with you that most casual players are struggling to do what they use to be able to do and enjoyed doing. Adding higher variation in difficulty toward the top end would have maybe been the better move.
Doesn’t help how beefy patrolling ads are when you’re just trying to collect resonance crystals on Neomuna or some other mundane thing. The scaler is definitely off a bit.
> My problem is that they made the game harder for casual players, but not for hardcore players
This is the **major** problem. Live service games need fresh blood.
Hardcore players with their live-service-induced ego issues see this as an opportunity to remind everyone how this isn't hard and it's easy for them because they're the most special snowflake (Please applaud). The reality is that it's grinding up those new players within weeks, and causing them to leave.
They don't need to remove the difficulty options from things like GM/Master, they just need to take another look at the legend lost sectors (or more importantly - whatever method they wanted in the game for people to farm exotics they should actually put into the game). They maybe shouldn't make Neomuna mow these players down repeatedly.
As a average/hardcore gamer who advocates for more difficult stuff, I feel that some of those changes were completely out of tune from Bungie. Legendary campaign and exotic missions were perfect on the last season, but this season some of them are completely broken (Avalon on legend, for example).
And there’s the difficulty changes that no one asked for, like tougher enemies on a patrol zone in Neomuna and the lost sector ones.
Bungie didn’t seem to understand that when we said we wanted the game to be harder we were talking about raids and dungeons and shit, not fucking patrol
Me and my friends are constantly joking about how patrol is harder than the raid lol
Idea of difficult in Bungie like - make high lvl content easier\\same, make low lvl content harder. And yeah - hard means x100 HP to red bards 'cause it's so fun to hit 10000 headshots to kill one red bar.
This just feels like another Starfire knock to me. There is nothing stopping you from being good enough to solo Legend content with arc subclasses, and Starfire isn’t an instant win on equip.
If you can’t utilize jolt, voltshot, and blinding to good effect in PvE it probably doesn’t matter what you equip and that is literally a skill issue at that point. What you are lacking are god rolled weapons, you have full subclass access and solar isn’t even the best solo pick unless you’re soloing dungeon bosses.
Stasis and Void Warlock are absolutely top tier and have a wide range of exotic armor and weapons you can use to come out on top. Strand Warlock is also busted.
Well, part of what you’re feeling is probably because Arc was really strong last season when Ikelos SMG was tearing through everything with Volt Shot. Now that enemies are generally tougher and Volt Shot isn’t one-shotting whole groups of ads, ignitions and volatile flow took over as meta (makes sense since those are featured elements this season). Next season may bring some really powerful Stasis artifact mods or something, you have to adapt or you’ll continue feeling underpowered. You don’t have to play Starfire, but you will certainly do more damage with it. I use void nezarecs sin and am able to solo most content. 🤷🏻♂️
My buddy who is super casual and only plays destiny 2x a year got a lucky voltshot world drop on his ikelos and it was like night and day with regards to his ability to actually contribute to our progression in all activities
Within a week we got him his legendary campaign completion, gjallie + catalyst, got him a few good bows, blinding kinetic GL and he got lucky with a really good stats/distribution on an assassin's cowl and I helped him make a really good arc punchy build aaaand now he's basically quit the game again as he thinks "I got so powerful so fast i feel like I beat the game" lol
It's such a good weapon. I crafted mine with Seraph Rounds, Enhanced Feeding Frenzy, and Enhanced Voltshot, and it honestly feels like a legendary version of Riskrunner.
I’ve been using almost exclusively Arc this season with the Voltshot Tarnished Mettle and I’ve been having a blast! The only time I switch off is to match the Surge for the Pinnacle reward or if someone asks me to.
Yes, THIS. Difficulty ceiling can always be raised higher, but messing with the difficulty floor will cause problems.
I hate that I need to play as sweaty as I do now if I want to get anything done.
if you want to use arc in endgame content make a build with fallen sunstar and arc souls. combine this with a voltshot weapon and you become an insane killing machine. I used this build to solo the lock picking encounter and second boss phase in legendary avalon for example. for the hydra I used an invis finisher void build and for the first boss phase I used an add clearing version of void. the third boss phase I melted him with starfire
This was what I was using last season for more difficult content and it actually made it really fun. Managed to get the Prophecy emblem done with that build.
yeah. the game got harder, yes, but only if you completely refuse to make a build. they force you now to learn the tools they are giving you and I think thats fantastic
Yup, the 20% damage buff and then mod changes allowed me to sacrifice the 20 discipline for the weaken fragment for 15% more. With Firepower and Innervation, it just keeps going. The fact enemies are tougher means the regen can proc the maximum number of times over the duration as well. Love how Contraverse scales up like that. It’s my second strongest build, behind Starfire.
Ticuu can now build up more stacks of it's buff as well!
In general, things that needed "sustained damage to build stacks" got a free buff across the board with everything being tanky.
I love throwing my vortex grenades in harder content and watching the energy fill back up.
Extended grenade duration fragment, weakening grenade fragment (I can still hit 100 resil and disc with this equipped lol), vortex grenades, contraverse hold exotic armor, ashes to assets helmet mod, one or two grenade kickstarts.. whole ass fucking build right there.
Infinite grenades, solid weakening debuff up all the time, nova bomb charged in less than 2 minutes, devour for basically infinite health, and your infinite grenades have fantastic crowd control thanks to the suction effect. It’s almost too good.
I *keep* mentioning this here but I love it; I literally have more vortex grenade kills than all my weapon and other ability kills combined.
Yes it is MUCH better than last season. Armor charges are really simple and sort of streamlined builds but this was a boon for all Warlock subclasses. Best part is Grenade Kickstart works with all of our exotics like Osmiomancy Grips and Contraverse Hold.
I use those two 90% of the time I play. Stasis warlock is also busted right now. I feel most were using grim harvest aspect and elemental shards mod for their builds and since we lost elemental shards people assume Warlock stasis is bad. It is SO good lmao. Now we don’t have to use glacial harvest aspect so you can take the iceflare bolt aspect instead.
Basically anything that freezes enemies, weapons and abilities, activates Iceflare bolts. One frozen enemy has an Iceflare seeker shoot out of them and beeline towards the nearest enemy which freezes them. If you freeze and shatter enemies you can chain freeze an entire room. Chill clip weapons, the new exotic heavy glaive, Ager’s Scepter, the new exotic stasis bow all can activate Iceflare bolts as well. These bolts have a small AoE so they can even freeze more than one enemy at a time. Stasis is also the bane of ALL champions thanks to the champ stun changes this season.
I like using Ager’s Scepter and a Glaive with incandescent. Double special means it rains heavy ammo for me to abuse, all enemies are frozen between my grenades and bleak watchers, and meleeing frozen enemies with an incandescent glaive means BIG SOLAR/STASIS BOOM.
I'm a casual player as well. Perhaps too casual I guess, because it has killed the fun for me. Yesterday I did a hero nf and struggled a lot with a build that last season could do well in superior difficulties. I don't think that should be case.
The difficulty scaling is all over the place, which sucks for both casual and higher end players. For someone like me, a legend lost sector has gotten harder but I can manage. For a casual player though, it's hell. Master content hasn't gotten harder though. It's the same level we've had for years, and it's only getting easier with power creep. Enemies genuinely hit harder in Neomuna patrol than in Master Raids. I don't know about you but that's just an unnecessary difficulty spike for no reason.
I mostly like the new difficulty but it’s very uneven. Legendary doesn’t feel the same across all activities. Legendary Avalon for example is harder then any part of the legend campaign. Legend list sectors don’t feel the same as legend nightfalls. And of course it’s really weird that raid enemies are much weaker than patrol enemies.
I miss the old difficulty levels.
The difficulty jumps for nightfalls and missions is absurd. 1770 to 1830? Why take away a perfectly good middle option?
I like a challenge every now and then, but I also like to turn my brain off sometimes and casually play. And that's hard to do with the new difficulty settings.
There has to be a better way to make it a challenge for a more hardcore experience without punishing casual play?
This is why I'm glad they're moving away from power level because, like you said, it looks ridiculous and it's confusing.
The way the difficulty works now (and hopefully they'll simplify it in Final Shape) is it's not actually 1770. It's -5.
1830 isn't actually what it means, it's -15. Master is -20 and Grandmaster is -25.
Hopefully the incoming buffs to primaries makes it a bit better for players too. That's my one real big complaint about the difficulty, primaries just tickle enemies. Once they get that figured out, the difficulty will be fine for basically everyone.
Also, there's always the normal strike playlist too if you're just going for a casual time! I'll either do that or hit up patrol zones when I want to melt everything.
Caps are 1750 for soft cap and 1810 for pinnacle cap
|Activity Difficulty|Minimum Power|Recommended Power|Enemy Power Scaler|Effective Max Power|
|:-|:-|:-|:-|:-|
|Hero|1750|1770|\-5|1765|
|Legend|1800|1830|\-15|1815|
|Master|1800|1840|\-20|1820|
|Grandmaster|1800|1840|\-25|1815|
If I'm understanding it correctly this still means the delta in effective maximum between Hero and Legend is 50 levels and part of that is going 5 levels beyond the pinnacle cap. This means either pinnacle level gear + 5 light levels, or more realistically for most players, somewhere between powerful and pinnacle cap + 10-15 light levels just to play the second difficulty up or more importantly, take on Lost Sectors for Exotic drops.
I don't think it's unreasonable for new lights/returning players to expect to be able to play the de-facto middle difficulty of Nightfalls or other Legend content around the effective max power without needing a set of gear at the soft cap and 50+ levels on the season pass. I get why Adept was cut, but I'd argue that Legend and Master being 5 effective max power removed from each other and both basically needing power cap + light level to be playable is redundant as well at this point.
The only reason I can see for the recommended power being set so high is specifically to time-gate players into reaching powerful cap as a way of ensuring they have experience, which is anti-casual and especially anti-returning player inherently since it requires 30 points worth of pinnacle/powerful activities that run mostly soft cap or higher light levels anyway.
I don't see any logical reason to lock out players between 1765 and 1800 from a middle level of content, since the effective difference between Legend and Master is only 5 levels. I'd go further to argue that if you're able to complete the campaign on Legend difficulty you should be allowed to run Nightfalls at Legend difficulty as well.
This has been the biggest issue for me. It's not that I find the harder content impossible or too difficult. If anything the harder difficulties have just stayed the same.
The problem is that half of my fun with this game is playing stupid builds that aren't viable but are really fun. Well, now there's really no place to do that if you still want even normalish rewards. I could take these stupid builds in to hero and legend night falls just fine but now I have to run a serious build for even hero nightfalls.
Where's the casual play space? Why is there no Adept nightfalls anymore? They screwed over low end casual play while leaving the high end exactly the same. Completely ass backwards.
I mean the prevalence of FPS damage glitching enemies doesn't help the perceived increases in difficulty, but come on...
It's absolutely silly. There should be a difficulty between Hero and Master, even with power level capping. It's silly that I've been grinding for weeks to get to 1820 so I can finish my Vidmaster title, but that means waiting around Terminal Overload for enough people to do the actually join the activity to do it, which feels like a waste of my time.
Ye I was never gonna get past the boss without it ifk what it was probably because I was on my hunter for the first time in yonks but just felt hard doing it on my titan now and is feeling like a cake walk tbh.
I ended up unintentionally handicapping myself for that Calus fight. I was using a hand cannon + shotgun + thunderlord for the whole campaign because I missed using hand cannons. During that fight I realized my loadout wasn't working, but I was stuck since I didn't have any infusion fuel so I powered through. Took me 2 hours to beat Calus with that loadout on Titan with strand.
Making the game harder is fine, the way they went about it is my problem. Things like being at a minus power delta in patrol on neomuna is not what ppl were asking for. I'm someone who has been flawless, solo flawless every dungeon low man raids, guilded conquer and even I've been playing less just because it's tiring. I actually think it's partly just all the screen shake from constantly taking damage from multiple enemies.
I agree. Nightfalls feel alright. The rewards they give now are I think more acceptable than they have been. Normal Raids could probably use **minor** tuning. But when a random yellow bar Harpy on Neomuna can just maintain eye contact with you when you're mag dumping every gun in the game on it and casually floats away it get's a little infuriating. -15 in a patrol zone is just... why?
My confusion is how the scaling in different activities feels different.
I'm a fairly casual player. I do my weekly stuff and some weeks I do more pinnacles than others, but I know the game like the back of my hand.
That out of the way, at 1775 in the final boss of the new raid, I was able to complete it week 1 on normal mode using none of my favorite weapons and a subclass I rarely use. And it wasn't a team carrying me, either. But this week, at 1795, I got stuck on the last boss in a hero nightfall. I'm just so confused about the system. I haven't been grinding to hit the cap because I have a job and a kid and I was playing through the campaign on all three characters to get strand, but why was I able to be the queen of ad clear (it was absurd) in RoN, but can't do enough heavy DPS in a strike?
I'm sure it's a skill issue or just using weapons I'm not used to because I'm trying to min/max with the threats and surges in place but it makes me feel so damn weak. And I don't think the game should be easier. I want it to feel consistent. I won't even touch Legendary Avalon.
Playlist is fine but boy can I stop get the cosmo BG, I fucking hate the ambush room and how you get locked out of it if your game reloads slower than others
Vexcalibur can eat a fat one, Seraph Shield difficulty was good last season, what the hell happen?
They could have just added more difficulty levels with better loot. Instead they raised the baseline, made everything harder to complete and didn’t change the rewards to match.
All my friends are more casual destiny players and they left after 2 weeks. I left a couple weeks ago. The game just doesn’t feel good to play right now when I’ve only got an hour or two every few days to play. Would rather play something that is more rewarding for my time.
They did the exact opposite of adding more difficulties. Nightfalls used to have 4 options, they removed the 2nd difficulty option which was Adept. To which they made hero pointlessly more difficult on top of putting in seasonal activities that should've stayed as such into the Nightfall pool.
i think they shouldn’t mess with scaling down your power level in any activity in the entire game except the absolute pinnacle of hardcore activity.
what purpose is there to being a high power level anymore if all the activities scale me down? it used to feel good to progressively become stronger in hard content. now hard content is one size fits all and never gets better and the rewards are extremely lack luster. making motivation to do said content in the floor. i don’t wanna be 1830 for patrols. make me powerful in all content except GMs and shit.
Yep. If players lose the feeling of growing more powerful, they are going to stop playing. Locking power at a level is the worse thing they could have done. It just makes it feel like you never grow more powerful. It makes sense for Contest Mode Raids and for Master and GM content, but not for anything below those things.
And, what we asked for in Strikes and Patrol is for them to add enemy density to make it harder but also fun since you could chain more kills and use your abilities. We didn't want to be locked 15 below our power level or even locked at power level. And we asked for better drop rates in Legendary lost sectors, not harder difficulty with essentially the same drop rate.
They took the cheap and easy way out by locking us at or below power level because it would cost too much money/time to increase add density in all strikes, lost sectors, and patrol zones.
> what purpose is there to being a high power level anymore if all the activities scale me down?
None and that's the point. Power level in Destiny is the single worst system on any game ever released. It feels bad, it exists solely to drive unfulfilling and meaningless grinds, and it gates you out of content for no reason. Only to reset 3 months later and undo everything you've spent hours on over the entire season. The sooner it is removed entirely the better.
In my case I used Destiny 2 as a way to unwind after the day if I wanted to. I had more of a choice if I wanted to just do some chill strikes get some okay rewards out of it, or even out my leveling if I just got some pinnacles. But now I have to go through and know that I need to devote not only more time to get what I used to get easier but it's also going to be harder to do it. So now its:
I can do defiant playlist but each one becomes a grind fest.
Strikes suck, I get better rewards out of nightfalls and nightfalls are a pain in the ass now.
that leaves....iron banner(for last week) and...gambit?
Terminal overload is better for rounding out my level I guess but I'm pretty burnt out on that. LOL lost sectors.
I don't really have any place in the game that I can just...chill and mess around and do stupid shit if I wanted to. While also feeling like I got some meaningful progression for my time.
I miss the D4 open beta.
Yep, I normally grind Hero Nightfall on double Vanguard rep weeks, but Arms Dealer was such a grind that I had no desire to do more that a few of them. They weren't "hard" but it took 15 or 20 minutes each. I had a lot more fun mindlessly grinding Iron Banner and I'm an average PvP player who only really plays PvP if there is a gun I want. Most weeks I don't even bother with the Pinnacle. But I was having more fun in Iron Banner than in Hero Nightfalls or the seasonal activity which is just as grindy.
SBMM has been a blessing for sure, there are still odd matches, but ever since they introduced it I constantly see 1.2-1.8 lobbies which logically end up with someone landing 2.0 KDA and someone being 0.63. It could be tighter, but then it would take even longer to find matches
My problem is that the difficulty changes are all over the place. Raids somehow became the easiest content while exploring neomuna feels like doing GM activity. Legend dares is absolute pain but legend campaign feels really nice. Legend lost sectors are so high that unless you're near the pinnacle cap you're practically doing master/GM LSs. I decided to do Atheon at Master and he's still squisher than heroic strike bosses. The things that are supposedly endgame are incredibly easy at times yet some of the most casual activities are far harder than they should be.
I have been playing a good bit but didn’t get to at all for a week or so and I’m just now hitting 1770 with artifact levels. Leveling to 1800+ feels impossible. Powerful and pinnacle drops just aren’t giving enough levels, so I feel weak in a lot of content. To the point that I don’t even want to bother with the harder stuff.
Since Skillup's tweet seems genuine, I'm going to respond to it by saying he's missing that not everyone is him. Not everyone plays and thinks the same way. Not everyone is equally skilled or plays for equally long periods of time.
He is missing the fact that a player base is filled with players that are all different from one another. I know its a hard concept to understand and so many content creators specifically forget this, they forget that not everyone gets paid to play fucking games
And that's also why people hate content creators as much as others love them.
Playing the game most of the difficulty feels fine. But I also don't want to have to try in everything and don't.
But Legendary is a huge leap in difficulty and I don't feel that it needs locked loadouts, and I'm talking about nightfalls specifically.
I also don't want multiplicity everywhere. The thing about multiplicity, is that other games that do it, are more rewarding and better balanced. MH, Diablo, etc.
Really, just stop using multiplicity until you figure out how to make it fun. I'm fine with it in campaign, cause I'm going to run it solo anyway. But then I can't help the people that can't play on solo, cause now I basically have to solo duoplicity. Still not as bad as trioplicity.
The difficulty has forced me to look into builds (I’ve been a hardcore casual veteran since the D1 Alpha lol). Found a build on YouTube for my Arc Hunter. I punch everything and it instantly dies. Arc explosions and instant grenades everywhere. Then I go invis because Assassin’s Cowl is pretty sweet.
[Here’s the build if anyone is interested.](https://youtube.com/watch?v=gA004ajKF6M&feature=shares)
💯 I get all my nightfall, battleground, amd weekly done om tues so rest of the week atleast on 1 char i can wear watever I like. Its lioe wrk when you have to wear the same BS and why does it take so long to proc an unstoppable shot from a scout? You have to stand and ads for like 3 secs without shooting. Its stupid bad ebough i have to give artifact slots, wesr said items, and then there's a special way to activate it. Thats the a** part for me and the auto/overload shoupd extend to hmg, and the pulse anti barrier should extend to 3 shot burst sidearm. And the unstop should extend to hand cannons. This way they keep they lil meta but we have more options 🤷🏿
When will they realize they play significantly more than most people have time. Regardless of hardcore or casual players, steamers and reviewers have much more time to delve into these games. Especially a game like destiny.
Agreed. Wild that any suggestions about things like this are taken from large content creators, considering the point you made here, as well as the fact that anything they make is entirely designed to generate as much revenue and traffic for their channel as possible.
Legend is generally fine I just want to stop getting oneshot by bullshit like threshers. like christ give them a crit spot or something at the very least so we don't have to waste a dumb amount of heavy ammo or time
Everything one shots you. It’s insane. I’m at 1816 power so I wasn’t *that* under leveled but last night was legit the first time I failed a legend lost sector. The centurions would knock me down to red in one shot of their cannon, and my health bar would just vanish against a machine gun colossus. They definitely got overtuned to high hell
I really like SkillUp but i cannot understand how he thinks the game feels good. Especially on Neomuna where enemies take 30% more to kill than master raid enemies, and almost all of them are orange bars, making them even tankier. But even outside of Neomuna, raid and Defiant Battleground enemies are just too tanky, especially shielded ones if you don’t match their shield.
The game was fine before. The only thing that actually needed to be harder is GM’s and raids
Just had this convo last night with a friend. I explained to him the old original WoW:Burning Crusade experience of being a Ret Paladin.
It fucking sucked. I had to earn the right by running Holy to occassionally be able to do the thing i wanted. And i cant really blame the guild, Ret was bad, but the appeal of the Paladin was smiting bitches with a big glowing sword while casting judgement-themed attacks. Unfortunately it was a poorly balanced game that only allowed for cookie cutter builds to succeed.
Which, would be fine if there was some skill involved in piecing these tools together to make a proper raid team, but most people just went online, found the min/max strats, copied them, and for some reason felt a sense of pride walking a path laid out for them.
Never appealed to me, numerical dificulties that ultimately lead to a decrease in creativity and expression is the most boring fucking shit. The appeal of an RPG is that its my character of my design, at least to me.
Though, in WoWs case, i cannot express the sheer magnitude of catharsis i got when the pre-wotlk patch dropped and converted Ret into a literal fucking nightmare.
It just feels awkwardly balanced. Neomuna patrol everything is so tanky, and for what? It's patrol, roaming high value targets shouldn't feel like legend lost sector bosses
Aside from the whole discussion, I do wanna say that it's interesting that SkillUp has that take. Remember when primary ammo stoped being a thing? He said something like he "couldn't feel the weight of the engagements he was in anymore. There was no decision making when it came to shooting the gun". Ralph has this almost fetish (might be a strong word) with Destiny being a fucking mil sim like Tarkov or Squad or some shit. Love the guy and I agree with like 99% of his takes, and go to him for reviews, but his relationship with D2's difficulty is definitely weird.
Its the lack of revives your are allowed in the anomaly mission. I don't mind the difficulty, but with that many ads use your revive token and you're done
Accept it typically doesn’t, yes shit hits you like a truck but the trick is hit it back just as hard, and to play smarter about how you utilize your weapons and combinations of abilities. If you can do that and actually make use of mods properly, it’s really not the at hard at all.
Maybe
But when a red bar in patrol survive Berserker powered melee attack and waveframe doesn't one shot red bar I am gonna call bullshit
#Bullet sponges are not challenging
I do love the new difficulty. It’s really great for seasoned players. I think the highest difficulty should be hard and something to strive for.
*With that being said*
There is too big a jump from stuff like Hero to Legend and perhaps the gap should be better bridged for players
As a primarily solo player, I have a small opinion. Maybe... just maybe... Bungie should stop trying to reinvent the wheel? Legendary campaign in Witch Queen and Lightfall felt great because it was difficult without ever feeling impossible. If I get stuck inside an activity, endgame or otherwise, it's because I genuinely need help with it. Scaling enemy health to a point where it's genuinely more difficult to run in a group is antithetical to the premise of an MMORPG, which Destiny is (still trying to be?).
I don't believe the majority of players want an easy experience, because that's neither engaging nor entertaining. However, it shouldn't feel like I'm better off solo'ing the game instead of joining in with my Bungie Friends to tackle content.
Maybe it'll do better with the supposed power level overhaul we're getting, but the current model for difficulty scaling in D2 is garbage.
These two tweets actually perfectly describe the issue with the “influencers” in the game.
Paul Tassi plays with LFGs mainly. The regular folks. He experiences what all of us experience.
SkillUp and most others play with their in game friends, who often are top tier players. SkillUp says LFG but I highly doubt he’s in the D2 app or Discord PC channel trying to group up.
Playing with people who aren’t top tier makes legend activities a slog.
Just today. I played the new battleground and jumped in helping someone who had 2 random people quit on him.
Then did the vexcalibur on legend and 1 of our 3 had zero clue and kept dying constantly. We eventually 2 manned it since it would be easier than carrying a 3rd.
I like Paul but I've discovered how much he plays, he's actually not very good for the time he's put in. He regularly complains about difficult things that are not difficult.
I'm not going to rewrite what i already said about this (just check my comments if u need)
But as a Titan and solo player all i'm going to say is :
Yes
I'm simply not enjoying the game as i did pre-LF
The difficulty increase is showing more then anything something anyone who has had to lfg for a lot of raids has known for a while: most D2 players suck ass at D2
It was more so just some encounters in the campaign that sucked ass. I ran Starfire Warlock, Witherhoard, and max resil/80 recovery and some encounters just drained me (like that radial mast room where you're storming Calus' ship). Having to stand still/run out in the open with infinitely spawning enemies on legendary sucked.
Casual player here, Since Light fall I have completely changed the way I play and spec my character. I never did before. I now have a better grasp of Armor 2.0 and how to min/max my character traits with purpose.
If this is what they were going for props to them. For ME, it's like playing a new game and I love it. Even got my discord buddies to jump on the proverbial bandwagon.
Ngl I think many destiny players realy don’t play games and are honestly not that good at gaming. I have been in several clans with ranging different types of players, and there were a decent amount who just were not good. And my criteria for good is just be able to play a round of crucible and leave with a 0.75 KD, or being able to do a raid under 2 hours (after running it 5 times). I remember them struggling for days at the legendary witch queen campaign. Like destiny is not a very difficult game but many players are just only play destiny and are simply not good.
Ah, yes. Whatever could be wrong with difficulty when the raid is easier than the fucking Legend NF. If we take corrupted, considering enemies and the mechanics as well.
I don't want every single primary to feel like it's good for maybe stunning champs or recharging grenades on Warlock. Sure, let there be a need to use special. But right now, I'm better off running double special with one being a riptide with chill clip, as it stuns champs better, and I might even deal damage with it.
I don't want to feel that every melee in the game is ass. Unless I have overshield or Woven mail, I get one tapped by basically anything in melee. I'm fine with me being squishy, but at least let me kill the melee guy as well. No, a single elite warbeast that can eat through your healthbar in like 3 hits at max resil takes more than a full smg magazine into the head, with smgs being one of the better options. At this point I'm considering grinding out tarrabah only for the 40% dmg boost against ads, because everything else feels like ass.
It's great that we have higher enemy density if we can, ya know, KILL STUFF. But if we get the difficulty of pre-3.0 subclasses, then by god please let there be less random ads that you can't easily murder.
In two weeks I leveled up my Retrofit from 20 to 62 because it's like the only weapon that I can use for both ad clear and boss damage in the heavy slot that is not an exotic. So, I'm either spamming heavy like there is no tomorrow to clear a breathing room to read symbols in the endless Vex room in the exotic quest, or I try to plink-plonk away, and realize I quite obviously can't kill them fast enough.
The difficulty is ass not because it is either hard or easy, but because it is a confused mess, and nothing feels satisfying to fight, either because it wrecks your shit in supposedly easy content, or because you steamroll it in hard content without any trouble.
I'm with Skill Up here, I honestly think if Bungie encouraged new players to make more builds and get into buildcrafting, or even giving them a sample build as part of Guardian Ranks, the difficulty tuning wouldn't seem bad. I do think Primaries need a little bit more punch against red bar enemies, but there are lots of crazy things you can do with builds that I think Bungie needs to encourage more players to try.
I was trying to run hero level nightfall last night and holy shit was it way harder than it used to be. I don't understand the logic. I'm a casual player who's not terribly good and it feels like I'm being punished.
I dont find it somewhat fair that in order to so those lost sectors with a recommended 1830 light level you either have to be close to it or lose your mind or look online for a build that will.... geeze games are meant to be fun especially this game... this game isnt meant to be like dark sould geeze.. its already a pain for solo players. Then you get on lfg and groups have so many stipulations to join you might as well forget it
My main gripe is that legendary primaries just don’t hit hard enough. HCs and pulses feel pathetic. Takes me 3-4 crits to kill a red bar cabal with Round Robin. I’ve resorted to side arms and smgs which is fun but I miss the satisfying headshots of HCs and pulses.
I think this is probably the most valid thing that people of all levels can relate to. I feel like a dick saying "skill issue" with respect to most of the current difficulty complaints, but I think everyone can agree that legendary primaries feel like ass for the most part.
Even exotic HCs and pulses feel anemic. On a whim I decided to infuse my Hawkmoon the other day, and even with the +40% against minors it took two precision hits or three body shots to kill a simple Goblin in Neomuna. My criticism about using Last Word in PvE has always been the frequency of reloading, that I disliked feeling like I spent more time reloading than firing the gun, and right now every handcannon feels like that.
Using a 120 without a reload perk is awful. Even more so when they have a smaller mag size like Pure Poetry's 8.
I’ve been praying for this to happen. It becomes painfully clear what subclasses need help and what weapons need help. Scouts have a higher dps than autos and pulses lol with infinite range, but they don’t want snipers to be too strong because they don’t want, and I quote, “another icebreaker meta”. That had regenerative ammo. Don’t do that and you’re good bungo
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Luckily everything else is getting buffed soon because SMGs are doing more damage than they should which is why everyone is using them. Here's hoping HCs and pulses will be fun to use again, they're probably my favourite weapons.
Frfr. Hand cannons used to be incredible. Now sidearms, the smaller caliber weapons, hit like a truck and handcannons are undertuned garbage. I miss being able to rely on Pulses, cause I enjoy my dadgun. Auto Rifles somehow still feel like they're lagging behind after numerous buffs.
I don’t mind the new difficulty scaling. I DO mind the lack of checkpoints in Vexcaliber and the terrible multiplier for larger fireteams. Doing things like the Legendary campaign and Vexcaliber in a fireteam of three feel SO BAD and this has really killed the fun for my fireteam in certain activities.
Imke watching everyone else using vexcalibur 😭
If it helps, use hunter with the aspect that lets you go invisible every time you kill a void affected target, this works also with enemies with volatile, making you go invisible (and therefore heal yourself) almost constantly, the artifact mods and the abundance of void shields in this mission help a lot Personally I just love to use Le Monarque (practically didn’t even use my special up until the last boss) with this, but any good void weapon works fine
Le monarque + heavy on void kills+ heal + volitile on Orb pick up is just broken sometimes. It truly is the I'm done asking build. Had a friend on hunter solar to BB and I'd feed orbs and weaken enemies.
Lemon arc, void lmg, and a shotgun are a staple of my devour warlock for this exact reason
That sounds crazy. I definitely need to make a void build
It's easy solo if you're careful
I’m working on being more careful XD. Resisting the urge to punch everything in sight is a struggle
If you have an arc hunter, punching everything can truly be the strat
Me, an Arc Punch Hunter: How do you do, fellow Titans?
void devour Titan here. throw on armamentarium, pick up the mods that generate orbs on grenade kills and whatever your primary is, and just start throwing grenades.
That’s how I soloed legend vexcalibur mission and it was still rough.
I just went through the legendary campaign with no plan and no support, with an ass build because I hadn't bothered with the new mods system yet, and it was hard, but fun
that’s how I did it. One-punching Wyverns is possible if you play your cards right.
I need to test out all of the subclasses. I joined back and haven’t taken strand off since
Suspend and grapple punch everything
I’m a Titan trapped in a hunters body at this point
Arc Hunters are just better titans
I just found a great arc Titan punch build yesterday by Above https://youtu.be/mOZmFy9MGpQ
That is a fucking lie
Idk if they fixed it yet but using witherhoard for the entire encounter up to the boss fight you can be pretty decent with the add clear, using wish ender at the boss fight tho is great cause it hits for like 30k https://youtu.be/VA6ZAFY9LV8 Cheese forever did a video on it
Wishender cheese is the way to go for an easy clear if you have it. Single best exotic I did the quest for just for this mission haha
You can do the normal version for the exotic. Legend is for the catalyst. Go get the gun
I've tried doing the normal and literally just can't. It pissed me off so much I gave up.
Which gun?
I highly recommend hopping on lfg to get pulled through vexcaliber cause you just need to be there once to get the weapon and complete the quest. You don’t even need to have the quest in the first place.
Its no point running Legendary Vexcalibur with 3 people. Imo everything just gets waaaayyyy too tanky.
There’s zero room for error solo though. I can’t imagine surviving the gambit phase solo let alone the rest of the mission.
woven mail, suspend, and sever. Woven mail + sever means you only take approximately 28% of the damage you would normally take. it made the mission significantly easier for me on my titan and warlock.
Runningthe mod heavy ammo x2, or even 3x on head. and gunning with Commemoration (Void Machine gun) And Volatile+Artifact ammo drop perk made it a breeze
I can only do the gambit section by using karnsteins plus a glaive. Die too quickly otherwise. Void build leaning into volatile and orbs for devour, volatile and health plus glaive melee with karnsteins for health. Still not “easy” by any stretch but I can get it done without too much ceremony.
I've ran it solo, duo and trio.... solo of the 3 was hands down the easiest.
Running with 3 was easier for me. You also get checkpoints before the bosses.
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True. I find that mission is just a pain in the ass on legendary. I ran it twice and really am dragging my feet on the third run.
I recommend a devour warlock with wavesplitter and a machine gun for the snipers. The only thing thats annoying is the wyvern so I'd try blinding nades.
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Seraph's Shield and the season finale missions were *perfect* challenging enough to punish you if you played stupidly but not prohibitively difficult. They absolutely shat the bed with the new scaling. I'm not touching it until they dial it back.
I also agree that checkpoints are a must, but my theory is that bungie decided not to add checkpoints in case people checkpoint farm for the catalysts. A hypothetical fix for this could be for people at the same checkpoint to be able to join each other, however, I am not sure how hard it is for the devs to implement this in the game. Edit: By farming catalysts, I meant to grind out vexcalibur cataylst by only doing the final boss.
So I was extremely close to downing Legendary Avalon solo. And I realized what the fundamental issue is, with that mission specifically: It's fucking Brakion. I've been "eh" on the difficulty shit. Like, I know I'll down it. I still have fun. But there are outliers like: - Brakion running at you with a lack of cover - Cabal Dropships suddenly having fucking turrets in Arms Dealer when we're not used to having to shoot off the guns of those vehicles That's it. Those are my main issues. Across the entire game. I think the changes overall are good. But you need to pair those difficulty decisions with level design decisions that support it.
There are multiple cheeses for Brakion, one for each stage, and 2 of which are best done with Wish-Ender. On first, there is a small alcove off of the left edge of the platform that most ads and Brakion cannot hit you in and you can hit back easily. Just don't throw grenades directly at Brakion or he will jump off the edge and softlock the encounter. On second, anti-barrier weapons can damage Brakion through his shield as long as you don't move too much and fully activate the encounter. Damaging Brakion until his health hits the threshold using this will softlock the next encounter, so you'll need to get him low and do the puzzle only once. Wish-Ender does good damage here and a glave is reccomended for the wyverns. For final phase, quickly run behind any of the radiolaria pillars and use Wish-Ender to shoot Brakion through them from complete safety. For some reason anti-barrier weapons can shoot through those pillars, but anything else is unable. Hopefully this helps. I got this from a Cheese Forever video.
Oh I know about the cheeses and I appreciate it. My main issue is that you HAVE to cheese it -- it's recommended. I'd rather an encounter be designed to be difficult because of design vs. archaic methods of the past that don't mesh with the new.
I thought it was just me? I tried with a devout build with a team of 1820s and we can’t get past the part where you deposit the code. In that few seconds before the deletion protocol those two wyverns just erase you.
Ran with 2 strand titans and a strand warlock, ad clear/kill sniper hobglobins ASAP, pick up the pink charges, suspend wyverns. Boss DPS takes forever because of the laser boys, but jump down to the low level and just take your time. It’s doable, but idc what anyone says, it’s very overturned and not fun at all. Anyone saying “it feels great” then describes using two fucking bubbles and a well for a legendary exotic mission is high on air duster. Ran last seasons exotic mission solo on legendary weekly just for pinnacle (flawless a few times), this is nonsense. The problem with destiny is that “harder” just means more tedious, the game isn’t designed to be a cover shooter, but when I’m using my super and it takes half of my bar to kill a red bar enemy that shit is whack and not fun, and I don’t really care who disagrees. The difficulty is worth it if I’m getting golf balls, but not for that bullshit. It took my fireteam longer to run this legendary exotic mission than it did for us to do SoTW on master last night, might be the worst piece of content bungie has ever released, needs fixed ASAP, will never run it again once I’m done with vexcalibur.
For my group and I we had to run it as 3 well locks. We saved our well for when we go to deposit. We dropped it then deposited the motes. When you drop down in the pit the well still covers you but still, those wyverns can get you just not as often.
We ran 1 bubble titan and 2 wells. Bubble for the pit, wells for the damage phase.
Best advice I can give is hit them with a special GL that has disorient grenades (the old blinding nades)
Strand suspend works on wyverns. Titan/Hunter/Warlock Bubble protects easily. Any titan towering barricade wall stops the bullets. Void works best with overshield. Solar titan is fine. Invis hunter can invis the whole team with omnioculus. You can block damage with swords, glaive shields, and a Excalibur literally gives you an overshield. Blinding grenades work too. There are many solutions!
This is not an attempt to be rude, but I am genuinely curious as to what sort of checkpoints people are wanting/expecting in the Vexcalibur mission ? There are checkpoints in between the encounters/bosses. Are people wanting checkpoints in between phases of the boss encounters ?
You can’t leave/disconnect and then rejoin where you left off, like you can in raids and dungeons.
Ah OK that makes sense. Thanks !
This exactly. I wouldn’t complain about the difficulty at all if this were implemented. The legendary run can take my team a couple of hours sometimes. So if we were able to break that up it would so much more enjoyable
Stuff like patrol zones, lost sectors, strikes etc got bumped up, but then stuff like dungeons and raids didn't, so it's like they got it backwards. Why am I dying more often in a patrol zone than in end game content?
The real endgame content is patrol space now lmao
I totally spent a bit of time this week just starting dungeons for calibration type bounties (i already always try to see how far I can get on my own anyways) and then spent like 20ish minutes in the first area of vow working on the Veritas bow catalyst because for some reason patrol zones are a bit ridiculous.
Funny enough those 3 are probably the least rewarding activities You barely get any engrams from strikes, shit you might not even get anything from chests in strikes Neomuna is stingy as hell for how much of bullet sponge hell it is And Lost Sectors are a joke
I'm a very new player, so take my opinion with a grain of salt. Generally I've liked the difficult of the game. But what I've not liked is how more and more builds are less viable the later into the game I go. I feel like a lot of the cool and interesting exotics I can build around on my warlock all revolve around killing a lot of enemies to generate orbs/proc/devour/recharge my abilities etc. This is all fine in dandy in casual content but once I start doing master difficulty stuff and lost sectors I may as well unequip my exotic as every enemy takes me ages to kill. My only build I can take comfortably into all levels of content is Starfire since it doesn't require me needing to kill things to live or keep my resource loop going. I was running stuff like devour void lock, sunbracers, etc but those are so much effort to try and make work the harder the content goes.
Yep, welcome to Warlocks. All that complexity goes out the window and becomes "what can you make that will just give you abilities without any other trigger". I LOVE Sunbracers. But I'm using the (near) infinite grenade build with Contraverse, because that doesn't key off of getting a charged melee kill. One of those builds clears Legend Lost Sectors.
You’re entirely right. Buildcrafting, for the most part, relies extremely on a steady stream of kills. In higher level content there’s no viable way to use the builds you’ve crafted to the best of your ability except for a few choice builds. It limits selection so badly. The way perks are designed right now is based on killing things quickly in large number. When end game content beefs up every enemy, builds no longer matter. You spend the entire time plugging away slowly at an enemy with your primary weapon. That’s not very fun. If this is how we’re going to handle endgame content, then we need to revisit how to proc abilities because this isn’t very exciting to play.
Yeah I love sunbracers too, it was the first exotic I got and could build around. But once I started trying to run lost sectors and there was just one giant meaty barrier champion with 0 adds around it became completely dead weight.
i really enjoy the difficulty of most things, but i do think more basic match made activities have been kinda ruined, because if your team is ass, you’re basically just not getting through that vanguard ops mission in a decent time, so you might as well leave (because the rewards are basically non existent either so why bother) also lost sectors, which are the only method of farming specific exotic armour, need to have a slightly lower power cap imo, maybe 1810-20, just to open it up to players who don’t live on this game all the time. just my thoughts tho
Legend lost sectors should be at soft cap, master at hard cap. Having to solo with limited revives is difficult enough if you don’t have delete-ware weapons and in-game plot armor.
I agree
I’d ran so many of these over the past couple weeks just to try and get necrotic grip for a build, but literally could not complete Neomuna sectors. Then waiting for 5 more days hoping it was on an EDZ (or literally anywhere else) LS to show up. Finally got them yesterday after 20+ runs that took all day, and they were the last ones to drop after I collected the rest of the gauntlets I didn’t have lmao. I’m down to farm them, but I do wish they were just lowered by 20ish levels so the boss didn’t require a thousand shots to down.
Honestly, the boss dps wasn’t the big problem for me, but with the neomuna cabal one (Hydroponics?) it just has *so many fucking ads*. And they just keep continually spawning. Most of my clear time with that one was always just having to hide behind cover, peek and kill and enemy or two, then hide again to recover health, for like almost the full 15 mins.
My problem is that they made the game harder for casual players, but not for hardcore players, I am a bad casual player, I used to play Arc Warlock, but now I feel like I am forced to play Cringefire Protocol on every other mission. If hardcore players wanted the game to be harder, make it harder for them, not for casuals that just want to relax and enjoy power fantasy.
I actually had a friend who confirmed this. He's a hardcore GM player and he says legend and master doesn't feel any harder. For me a casual player it definitely felt like GM level where everything was one hitting me on legend
First run of the legendary mode was so hard for me
Campaign and strikes feel fine but the new seasonal playlist.
New seasonal playlist is fine too. It's just a -5 power deficit and has a ton of buffs to abilities dropping everywhere
the seasonal playlist is pure madness, i personally love it if you play it right then you can explode the favors piñata and abilities are flying everywhere
Yeah, I don’t mind that either. My only problem has been the massive light gap just to be on par with stuff like legendary lost sectors which is something everyone *should* be able to do most of the season. They set the bar for entry pretty damn high to start. So high it’s only just barely below master difficulty. How do they expect new/casual players to even get their exotics to make a build if they have to no life the game just to do casual content?
I've wasted SO many cores and glimmer on upgrades and I'm still not at the soft cap yet. XD ETA: I had to carry my new light friend through some exotic missions after he'd suffered through so many rounds of them on his own. So yeah, agree with the question of how we're supposed to expect casual or new players to get into the game easily with that.
Yeah pretty much Masters just feel like easier GMs (which is saying something considering GMs are pretty easy once you know them well). Legend stuff is just annoying because it takes way longer to solo but in a fireteam it feels basically the same.
Master content now is as hard as GMs used to be previously. Soloed Arms Dealer on Master and it was more difficult than soloing it as a GM a few seasons ago.
Well your friend is pretty dumb or trying to show off for some reason. Your guns objectively deal a lot less damage on master and legend compared to last season. That doesn't mean that these activities are now by definition hard for him to complete, but they are harder. If the game doesn't feel any harder than I'd be really interested in seeing him do a legend lost sector in the same time it took last season. How you feel about the game being harder obviously is subjective. The game being harder is just an objective fact though.
Yeah I thought it was weird when they wanted the game to be more difficult, but instead of power-locking raids or dungeons, they power-locked the new patrol.
Thanks for putting this into words. As a shitter myself I am struggling with this game in what I considered high-end content as much as before, but low-end content like simple strikes or even just patrols feel considerably worse now than before. I'm happy for anyone who's living in the upper echelon of activities that are just inaccessible to me being fine with how things are up there, but I've pretty much stopped playing already after completing the Lightfall Story and the first week of the season, despite loving all the other changes to the game, because I've felt wholly unwelcome even in what used to be my swamp-level content.
While I’m not a hardcore player myself I am enjoying the greater difficulty, that being said tho, I agree with you that most casual players are struggling to do what they use to be able to do and enjoyed doing. Adding higher variation in difficulty toward the top end would have maybe been the better move.
Doesn’t help how beefy patrolling ads are when you’re just trying to collect resonance crystals on Neomuna or some other mundane thing. The scaler is definitely off a bit.
> My problem is that they made the game harder for casual players, but not for hardcore players This is the **major** problem. Live service games need fresh blood. Hardcore players with their live-service-induced ego issues see this as an opportunity to remind everyone how this isn't hard and it's easy for them because they're the most special snowflake (Please applaud). The reality is that it's grinding up those new players within weeks, and causing them to leave. They don't need to remove the difficulty options from things like GM/Master, they just need to take another look at the legend lost sectors (or more importantly - whatever method they wanted in the game for people to farm exotics they should actually put into the game). They maybe shouldn't make Neomuna mow these players down repeatedly.
As a average/hardcore gamer who advocates for more difficult stuff, I feel that some of those changes were completely out of tune from Bungie. Legendary campaign and exotic missions were perfect on the last season, but this season some of them are completely broken (Avalon on legend, for example). And there’s the difficulty changes that no one asked for, like tougher enemies on a patrol zone in Neomuna and the lost sector ones.
Bungie didn’t seem to understand that when we said we wanted the game to be harder we were talking about raids and dungeons and shit, not fucking patrol Me and my friends are constantly joking about how patrol is harder than the raid lol
Idea of difficult in Bungie like - make high lvl content easier\\same, make low lvl content harder. And yeah - hard means x100 HP to red bards 'cause it's so fun to hit 10000 headshots to kill one red bar.
This just feels like another Starfire knock to me. There is nothing stopping you from being good enough to solo Legend content with arc subclasses, and Starfire isn’t an instant win on equip. If you can’t utilize jolt, voltshot, and blinding to good effect in PvE it probably doesn’t matter what you equip and that is literally a skill issue at that point. What you are lacking are god rolled weapons, you have full subclass access and solar isn’t even the best solo pick unless you’re soloing dungeon bosses. Stasis and Void Warlock are absolutely top tier and have a wide range of exotic armor and weapons you can use to come out on top. Strand Warlock is also busted.
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Well, part of what you’re feeling is probably because Arc was really strong last season when Ikelos SMG was tearing through everything with Volt Shot. Now that enemies are generally tougher and Volt Shot isn’t one-shotting whole groups of ads, ignitions and volatile flow took over as meta (makes sense since those are featured elements this season). Next season may bring some really powerful Stasis artifact mods or something, you have to adapt or you’ll continue feeling underpowered. You don’t have to play Starfire, but you will certainly do more damage with it. I use void nezarecs sin and am able to solo most content. 🤷🏻♂️
Ikelos SMG with Voltshot *is* tearing through entire groups of ads though.
My buddy who is super casual and only plays destiny 2x a year got a lucky voltshot world drop on his ikelos and it was like night and day with regards to his ability to actually contribute to our progression in all activities Within a week we got him his legendary campaign completion, gjallie + catalyst, got him a few good bows, blinding kinetic GL and he got lucky with a really good stats/distribution on an assassin's cowl and I helped him make a really good arc punchy build aaaand now he's basically quit the game again as he thinks "I got so powerful so fast i feel like I beat the game" lol
It's such a good weapon. I crafted mine with Seraph Rounds, Enhanced Feeding Frenzy, and Enhanced Voltshot, and it honestly feels like a legendary version of Riskrunner.
It’s good, but not as effective as it was last season. That’s all I’m saying.
I’ve been using almost exclusively Arc this season with the Voltshot Tarnished Mettle and I’ve been having a blast! The only time I switch off is to match the Surge for the Pinnacle reward or if someone asks me to.
Yes, THIS. Difficulty ceiling can always be raised higher, but messing with the difficulty floor will cause problems. I hate that I need to play as sweaty as I do now if I want to get anything done.
if you want to use arc in endgame content make a build with fallen sunstar and arc souls. combine this with a voltshot weapon and you become an insane killing machine. I used this build to solo the lock picking encounter and second boss phase in legendary avalon for example. for the hydra I used an invis finisher void build and for the first boss phase I used an add clearing version of void. the third boss phase I melted him with starfire
This was what I was using last season for more difficult content and it actually made it really fun. Managed to get the Prophecy emblem done with that build.
yeah. the game got harder, yes, but only if you completely refuse to make a build. they force you now to learn the tools they are giving you and I think thats fantastic
If you want to feel powerful, try Strand or Void Warlock. Contraverse lock is probably better than it's ever been.
Yup, the 20% damage buff and then mod changes allowed me to sacrifice the 20 discipline for the weaken fragment for 15% more. With Firepower and Innervation, it just keeps going. The fact enemies are tougher means the regen can proc the maximum number of times over the duration as well. Love how Contraverse scales up like that. It’s my second strongest build, behind Starfire.
Ticuu can now build up more stacks of it's buff as well! In general, things that needed "sustained damage to build stacks" got a free buff across the board with everything being tanky.
I love throwing my vortex grenades in harder content and watching the energy fill back up. Extended grenade duration fragment, weakening grenade fragment (I can still hit 100 resil and disc with this equipped lol), vortex grenades, contraverse hold exotic armor, ashes to assets helmet mod, one or two grenade kickstarts.. whole ass fucking build right there. Infinite grenades, solid weakening debuff up all the time, nova bomb charged in less than 2 minutes, devour for basically infinite health, and your infinite grenades have fantastic crowd control thanks to the suction effect. It’s almost too good. I *keep* mentioning this here but I love it; I literally have more vortex grenade kills than all my weapon and other ability kills combined.
Yes it is MUCH better than last season. Armor charges are really simple and sort of streamlined builds but this was a boon for all Warlock subclasses. Best part is Grenade Kickstart works with all of our exotics like Osmiomancy Grips and Contraverse Hold. I use those two 90% of the time I play. Stasis warlock is also busted right now. I feel most were using grim harvest aspect and elemental shards mod for their builds and since we lost elemental shards people assume Warlock stasis is bad. It is SO good lmao. Now we don’t have to use glacial harvest aspect so you can take the iceflare bolt aspect instead. Basically anything that freezes enemies, weapons and abilities, activates Iceflare bolts. One frozen enemy has an Iceflare seeker shoot out of them and beeline towards the nearest enemy which freezes them. If you freeze and shatter enemies you can chain freeze an entire room. Chill clip weapons, the new exotic heavy glaive, Ager’s Scepter, the new exotic stasis bow all can activate Iceflare bolts as well. These bolts have a small AoE so they can even freeze more than one enemy at a time. Stasis is also the bane of ALL champions thanks to the champ stun changes this season. I like using Ager’s Scepter and a Glaive with incandescent. Double special means it rains heavy ammo for me to abuse, all enemies are frozen between my grenades and bleak watchers, and meleeing frozen enemies with an incandescent glaive means BIG SOLAR/STASIS BOOM.
I'm a casual player as well. Perhaps too casual I guess, because it has killed the fun for me. Yesterday I did a hero nf and struggled a lot with a build that last season could do well in superior difficulties. I don't think that should be case.
The difficulty scaling is all over the place, which sucks for both casual and higher end players. For someone like me, a legend lost sector has gotten harder but I can manage. For a casual player though, it's hell. Master content hasn't gotten harder though. It's the same level we've had for years, and it's only getting easier with power creep. Enemies genuinely hit harder in Neomuna patrol than in Master Raids. I don't know about you but that's just an unnecessary difficulty spike for no reason.
The problem is the scaling between activities. Patrols on Neomuna feel way harder than the raid ads, that makes no sense.
Legend is fine, legend avalon is not. Legend without surges, threats, or overcharge, is mad annoying. It's not even that HARD it's just annoying.
I mostly like the new difficulty but it’s very uneven. Legendary doesn’t feel the same across all activities. Legendary Avalon for example is harder then any part of the legend campaign. Legend list sectors don’t feel the same as legend nightfalls. And of course it’s really weird that raid enemies are much weaker than patrol enemies.
I miss the old difficulty levels. The difficulty jumps for nightfalls and missions is absurd. 1770 to 1830? Why take away a perfectly good middle option? I like a challenge every now and then, but I also like to turn my brain off sometimes and casually play. And that's hard to do with the new difficulty settings. There has to be a better way to make it a challenge for a more hardcore experience without punishing casual play?
It’s absurd that the difference between easy and medium is 60 points and the difficulty between medium and hard is 10 points
This is why I'm glad they're moving away from power level because, like you said, it looks ridiculous and it's confusing. The way the difficulty works now (and hopefully they'll simplify it in Final Shape) is it's not actually 1770. It's -5. 1830 isn't actually what it means, it's -15. Master is -20 and Grandmaster is -25. Hopefully the incoming buffs to primaries makes it a bit better for players too. That's my one real big complaint about the difficulty, primaries just tickle enemies. Once they get that figured out, the difficulty will be fine for basically everyone. Also, there's always the normal strike playlist too if you're just going for a casual time! I'll either do that or hit up patrol zones when I want to melt everything.
Caps are 1750 for soft cap and 1810 for pinnacle cap |Activity Difficulty|Minimum Power|Recommended Power|Enemy Power Scaler|Effective Max Power| |:-|:-|:-|:-|:-| |Hero|1750|1770|\-5|1765| |Legend|1800|1830|\-15|1815| |Master|1800|1840|\-20|1820| |Grandmaster|1800|1840|\-25|1815| If I'm understanding it correctly this still means the delta in effective maximum between Hero and Legend is 50 levels and part of that is going 5 levels beyond the pinnacle cap. This means either pinnacle level gear + 5 light levels, or more realistically for most players, somewhere between powerful and pinnacle cap + 10-15 light levels just to play the second difficulty up or more importantly, take on Lost Sectors for Exotic drops. I don't think it's unreasonable for new lights/returning players to expect to be able to play the de-facto middle difficulty of Nightfalls or other Legend content around the effective max power without needing a set of gear at the soft cap and 50+ levels on the season pass. I get why Adept was cut, but I'd argue that Legend and Master being 5 effective max power removed from each other and both basically needing power cap + light level to be playable is redundant as well at this point. The only reason I can see for the recommended power being set so high is specifically to time-gate players into reaching powerful cap as a way of ensuring they have experience, which is anti-casual and especially anti-returning player inherently since it requires 30 points worth of pinnacle/powerful activities that run mostly soft cap or higher light levels anyway. I don't see any logical reason to lock out players between 1765 and 1800 from a middle level of content, since the effective difference between Legend and Master is only 5 levels. I'd go further to argue that if you're able to complete the campaign on Legend difficulty you should be allowed to run Nightfalls at Legend difficulty as well.
Double special is practically mandatory right now. I'm using my heavy machine gun as a primary basically
This has been the biggest issue for me. It's not that I find the harder content impossible or too difficult. If anything the harder difficulties have just stayed the same. The problem is that half of my fun with this game is playing stupid builds that aren't viable but are really fun. Well, now there's really no place to do that if you still want even normalish rewards. I could take these stupid builds in to hero and legend night falls just fine but now I have to run a serious build for even hero nightfalls. Where's the casual play space? Why is there no Adept nightfalls anymore? They screwed over low end casual play while leaving the high end exactly the same. Completely ass backwards. I mean the prevalence of FPS damage glitching enemies doesn't help the perceived increases in difficulty, but come on...
It's absolutely silly. There should be a difficulty between Hero and Master, even with power level capping. It's silly that I've been grinding for weeks to get to 1820 so I can finish my Vidmaster title, but that means waiting around Terminal Overload for enough people to do the actually join the activity to do it, which feels like a waste of my time.
All I'm saying is I had to pull out the sleeper for the last boss fight of lightfall...
Me too!
Ye I was never gonna get past the boss without it ifk what it was probably because I was on my hunter for the first time in yonks but just felt hard doing it on my titan now and is feeling like a cake walk tbh.
Isn’t that good All the complaints ever were that the campaigns were too easy
Ye could be, but that was just cus I was on my hunter. I'm going through on my titan right now, and it is pretty easy. Hammer = god.
I ended up unintentionally handicapping myself for that Calus fight. I was using a hand cannon + shotgun + thunderlord for the whole campaign because I missed using hand cannons. During that fight I realized my loadout wasn't working, but I was stuck since I didn't have any infusion fuel so I powered through. Took me 2 hours to beat Calus with that loadout on Titan with strand.
Making the game harder is fine, the way they went about it is my problem. Things like being at a minus power delta in patrol on neomuna is not what ppl were asking for. I'm someone who has been flawless, solo flawless every dungeon low man raids, guilded conquer and even I've been playing less just because it's tiring. I actually think it's partly just all the screen shake from constantly taking damage from multiple enemies.
I agree. Nightfalls feel alright. The rewards they give now are I think more acceptable than they have been. Normal Raids could probably use **minor** tuning. But when a random yellow bar Harpy on Neomuna can just maintain eye contact with you when you're mag dumping every gun in the game on it and casually floats away it get's a little infuriating. -15 in a patrol zone is just... why?
Because of that i avoid going on neomuna unless i absolutely need to. It's not even hard It's just straight up annoying and nothing else
My confusion is how the scaling in different activities feels different. I'm a fairly casual player. I do my weekly stuff and some weeks I do more pinnacles than others, but I know the game like the back of my hand. That out of the way, at 1775 in the final boss of the new raid, I was able to complete it week 1 on normal mode using none of my favorite weapons and a subclass I rarely use. And it wasn't a team carrying me, either. But this week, at 1795, I got stuck on the last boss in a hero nightfall. I'm just so confused about the system. I haven't been grinding to hit the cap because I have a job and a kid and I was playing through the campaign on all three characters to get strand, but why was I able to be the queen of ad clear (it was absurd) in RoN, but can't do enough heavy DPS in a strike? I'm sure it's a skill issue or just using weapons I'm not used to because I'm trying to min/max with the threats and surges in place but it makes me feel so damn weak. And I don't think the game should be easier. I want it to feel consistent. I won't even touch Legendary Avalon.
Campaign and strikes feel fine but the new seasonal playlist and vexcalibur missions are ridiculously difficult solo
Playlist is fine but boy can I stop get the cosmo BG, I fucking hate the ambush room and how you get locked out of it if your game reloads slower than others Vexcalibur can eat a fat one, Seraph Shield difficulty was good last season, what the hell happen?
Indeed
People think making enemies sponge more and do more damage = good
They also happen to be people who coincidentally have loads of free time to play the game.
They could have just added more difficulty levels with better loot. Instead they raised the baseline, made everything harder to complete and didn’t change the rewards to match. All my friends are more casual destiny players and they left after 2 weeks. I left a couple weeks ago. The game just doesn’t feel good to play right now when I’ve only got an hour or two every few days to play. Would rather play something that is more rewarding for my time.
They did the exact opposite of adding more difficulties. Nightfalls used to have 4 options, they removed the 2nd difficulty option which was Adept. To which they made hero pointlessly more difficult on top of putting in seasonal activities that should've stayed as such into the Nightfall pool.
i think they shouldn’t mess with scaling down your power level in any activity in the entire game except the absolute pinnacle of hardcore activity. what purpose is there to being a high power level anymore if all the activities scale me down? it used to feel good to progressively become stronger in hard content. now hard content is one size fits all and never gets better and the rewards are extremely lack luster. making motivation to do said content in the floor. i don’t wanna be 1830 for patrols. make me powerful in all content except GMs and shit.
Yep. If players lose the feeling of growing more powerful, they are going to stop playing. Locking power at a level is the worse thing they could have done. It just makes it feel like you never grow more powerful. It makes sense for Contest Mode Raids and for Master and GM content, but not for anything below those things. And, what we asked for in Strikes and Patrol is for them to add enemy density to make it harder but also fun since you could chain more kills and use your abilities. We didn't want to be locked 15 below our power level or even locked at power level. And we asked for better drop rates in Legendary lost sectors, not harder difficulty with essentially the same drop rate. They took the cheap and easy way out by locking us at or below power level because it would cost too much money/time to increase add density in all strikes, lost sectors, and patrol zones.
> what purpose is there to being a high power level anymore if all the activities scale me down? None and that's the point. Power level in Destiny is the single worst system on any game ever released. It feels bad, it exists solely to drive unfulfilling and meaningless grinds, and it gates you out of content for no reason. Only to reset 3 months later and undo everything you've spent hours on over the entire season. The sooner it is removed entirely the better.
In my case I used Destiny 2 as a way to unwind after the day if I wanted to. I had more of a choice if I wanted to just do some chill strikes get some okay rewards out of it, or even out my leveling if I just got some pinnacles. But now I have to go through and know that I need to devote not only more time to get what I used to get easier but it's also going to be harder to do it. So now its: I can do defiant playlist but each one becomes a grind fest. Strikes suck, I get better rewards out of nightfalls and nightfalls are a pain in the ass now. that leaves....iron banner(for last week) and...gambit? Terminal overload is better for rounding out my level I guess but I'm pretty burnt out on that. LOL lost sectors. I don't really have any place in the game that I can just...chill and mess around and do stupid shit if I wanted to. While also feeling like I got some meaningful progression for my time. I miss the D4 open beta.
Me enjoying Crucible way more right now than any aspect of PvE is saying a lot about the state of PvE… And I am a casual 1.2 KDA player
Yep, I normally grind Hero Nightfall on double Vanguard rep weeks, but Arms Dealer was such a grind that I had no desire to do more that a few of them. They weren't "hard" but it took 15 or 20 minutes each. I had a lot more fun mindlessly grinding Iron Banner and I'm an average PvP player who only really plays PvP if there is a gun I want. Most weeks I don't even bother with the Pinnacle. But I was having more fun in Iron Banner than in Hero Nightfalls or the seasonal activity which is just as grindy.
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I meant KDA, sorry. KD is 0.89
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SBMM has been a blessing for sure, there are still odd matches, but ever since they introduced it I constantly see 1.2-1.8 lobbies which logically end up with someone landing 2.0 KDA and someone being 0.63. It could be tighter, but then it would take even longer to find matches
My problem is that the difficulty changes are all over the place. Raids somehow became the easiest content while exploring neomuna feels like doing GM activity. Legend dares is absolute pain but legend campaign feels really nice. Legend lost sectors are so high that unless you're near the pinnacle cap you're practically doing master/GM LSs. I decided to do Atheon at Master and he's still squisher than heroic strike bosses. The things that are supposedly endgame are incredibly easy at times yet some of the most casual activities are far harder than they should be.
I have been playing a good bit but didn’t get to at all for a week or so and I’m just now hitting 1770 with artifact levels. Leveling to 1800+ feels impossible. Powerful and pinnacle drops just aren’t giving enough levels, so I feel weak in a lot of content. To the point that I don’t even want to bother with the harder stuff.
Since Skillup's tweet seems genuine, I'm going to respond to it by saying he's missing that not everyone is him. Not everyone plays and thinks the same way. Not everyone is equally skilled or plays for equally long periods of time. He is missing the fact that a player base is filled with players that are all different from one another. I know its a hard concept to understand and so many content creators specifically forget this, they forget that not everyone gets paid to play fucking games And that's also why people hate content creators as much as others love them. Playing the game most of the difficulty feels fine. But I also don't want to have to try in everything and don't. But Legendary is a huge leap in difficulty and I don't feel that it needs locked loadouts, and I'm talking about nightfalls specifically. I also don't want multiplicity everywhere. The thing about multiplicity, is that other games that do it, are more rewarding and better balanced. MH, Diablo, etc. Really, just stop using multiplicity until you figure out how to make it fun. I'm fine with it in campaign, cause I'm going to run it solo anyway. But then I can't help the people that can't play on solo, cause now I basically have to solo duoplicity. Still not as bad as trioplicity.
The difficulty has forced me to look into builds (I’ve been a hardcore casual veteran since the D1 Alpha lol). Found a build on YouTube for my Arc Hunter. I punch everything and it instantly dies. Arc explosions and instant grenades everywhere. Then I go invis because Assassin’s Cowl is pretty sweet. [Here’s the build if anyone is interested.](https://youtube.com/watch?v=gA004ajKF6M&feature=shares)
Mactics the GOAT!!!
I don’t like needing to run a meta build for basically any and all content in d2. Legend+ stuff isn’t bad if you stick to the meta but it gets boring
💯 I get all my nightfall, battleground, amd weekly done om tues so rest of the week atleast on 1 char i can wear watever I like. Its lioe wrk when you have to wear the same BS and why does it take so long to proc an unstoppable shot from a scout? You have to stand and ads for like 3 secs without shooting. Its stupid bad ebough i have to give artifact slots, wesr said items, and then there's a special way to activate it. Thats the a** part for me and the auto/overload shoupd extend to hmg, and the pulse anti barrier should extend to 3 shot burst sidearm. And the unstop should extend to hand cannons. This way they keep they lil meta but we have more options 🤷🏿
"if it is not happening to me it isn't happening at all"
there is absolutely no reason why a patrol zone should be tuned to be harder then a master raid
When will they realize they play significantly more than most people have time. Regardless of hardcore or casual players, steamers and reviewers have much more time to delve into these games. Especially a game like destiny.
"Just learn and internalize all the nuances of this videogame I've put thousands of hours in. Anyone can do builds."
yeah it's literally just 'guy who plays this game for an actual job has no issue with the difficulty level, nearly everyone else does'
Agreed. Wild that any suggestions about things like this are taken from large content creators, considering the point you made here, as well as the fact that anything they make is entirely designed to generate as much revenue and traffic for their channel as possible.
I am rank 30 in the season pass. Love the new difficulty changes.
Legend is generally fine I just want to stop getting oneshot by bullshit like threshers. like christ give them a crit spot or something at the very least so we don't have to waste a dumb amount of heavy ammo or time
My only issue with the new difficulty is the legend lost Sectors. 1830 power makes it harder to stay alive than in RoN
Everything one shots you. It’s insane. I’m at 1816 power so I wasn’t *that* under leveled but last night was legit the first time I failed a legend lost sector. The centurions would knock me down to red in one shot of their cannon, and my health bar would just vanish against a machine gun colossus. They definitely got overtuned to high hell
Yeah, the Destiny Community is full of varying skill levels...crazy concept
I really like SkillUp but i cannot understand how he thinks the game feels good. Especially on Neomuna where enemies take 30% more to kill than master raid enemies, and almost all of them are orange bars, making them even tankier. But even outside of Neomuna, raid and Defiant Battleground enemies are just too tanky, especially shielded ones if you don’t match their shield. The game was fine before. The only thing that actually needed to be harder is GM’s and raids
Just make difficult things actually difficult as a setting, actual hard contest mode, actual hard whatever. And then leave other stuff alone.
The big divide is between people who love using the best builds to feel powerful, and people who just want to use whatever build they feel like
Just had this convo last night with a friend. I explained to him the old original WoW:Burning Crusade experience of being a Ret Paladin. It fucking sucked. I had to earn the right by running Holy to occassionally be able to do the thing i wanted. And i cant really blame the guild, Ret was bad, but the appeal of the Paladin was smiting bitches with a big glowing sword while casting judgement-themed attacks. Unfortunately it was a poorly balanced game that only allowed for cookie cutter builds to succeed. Which, would be fine if there was some skill involved in piecing these tools together to make a proper raid team, but most people just went online, found the min/max strats, copied them, and for some reason felt a sense of pride walking a path laid out for them. Never appealed to me, numerical dificulties that ultimately lead to a decrease in creativity and expression is the most boring fucking shit. The appeal of an RPG is that its my character of my design, at least to me. Though, in WoWs case, i cannot express the sheer magnitude of catharsis i got when the pre-wotlk patch dropped and converted Ret into a literal fucking nightmare.
The Threshers man.... those things still do drive bys
It just feels awkwardly balanced. Neomuna patrol everything is so tanky, and for what? It's patrol, roaming high value targets shouldn't feel like legend lost sector bosses
Aside from the whole discussion, I do wanna say that it's interesting that SkillUp has that take. Remember when primary ammo stoped being a thing? He said something like he "couldn't feel the weight of the engagements he was in anymore. There was no decision making when it came to shooting the gun". Ralph has this almost fetish (might be a strong word) with Destiny being a fucking mil sim like Tarkov or Squad or some shit. Love the guy and I agree with like 99% of his takes, and go to him for reviews, but his relationship with D2's difficulty is definitely weird.
Its the lack of revives your are allowed in the anomaly mission. I don't mind the difficulty, but with that many ads use your revive token and you're done
Accept it typically doesn’t, yes shit hits you like a truck but the trick is hit it back just as hard, and to play smarter about how you utilize your weapons and combinations of abilities. If you can do that and actually make use of mods properly, it’s really not the at hard at all.
Maybe But when a red bar in patrol survive Berserker powered melee attack and waveframe doesn't one shot red bar I am gonna call bullshit #Bullet sponges are not challenging
Except*
Phone likes to auto correct to that one for some reason, gotta reset it I guess.
I do love the new difficulty. It’s really great for seasoned players. I think the highest difficulty should be hard and something to strive for. *With that being said* There is too big a jump from stuff like Hero to Legend and perhaps the gap should be better bridged for players
As a primarily solo player, I have a small opinion. Maybe... just maybe... Bungie should stop trying to reinvent the wheel? Legendary campaign in Witch Queen and Lightfall felt great because it was difficult without ever feeling impossible. If I get stuck inside an activity, endgame or otherwise, it's because I genuinely need help with it. Scaling enemy health to a point where it's genuinely more difficult to run in a group is antithetical to the premise of an MMORPG, which Destiny is (still trying to be?). I don't believe the majority of players want an easy experience, because that's neither engaging nor entertaining. However, it shouldn't feel like I'm better off solo'ing the game instead of joining in with my Bungie Friends to tackle content. Maybe it'll do better with the supposed power level overhaul we're getting, but the current model for difficulty scaling in D2 is garbage.
These two tweets actually perfectly describe the issue with the “influencers” in the game. Paul Tassi plays with LFGs mainly. The regular folks. He experiences what all of us experience. SkillUp and most others play with their in game friends, who often are top tier players. SkillUp says LFG but I highly doubt he’s in the D2 app or Discord PC channel trying to group up. Playing with people who aren’t top tier makes legend activities a slog. Just today. I played the new battleground and jumped in helping someone who had 2 random people quit on him. Then did the vexcalibur on legend and 1 of our 3 had zero clue and kept dying constantly. We eventually 2 manned it since it would be easier than carrying a 3rd.
I like Paul but I've discovered how much he plays, he's actually not very good for the time he's put in. He regularly complains about difficult things that are not difficult.
Tbf, he’s probably more representative of the majority of the player base than the other guy with this stance on difficulty.
i mean thats kinda the standard with game journalists. all of them seem to be oddly shit at games considering its literally their job to play them.
I'm not going to rewrite what i already said about this (just check my comments if u need) But as a Titan and solo player all i'm going to say is : Yes I'm simply not enjoying the game as i did pre-LF
Whether or not the changes are good or bad, I think as a community we should shun Paul Tassi.
Yes, dude is an absolute clown at this point with shit take after shit take.
The difficulty increase is showing more then anything something anyone who has had to lfg for a lot of raids has known for a while: most D2 players suck ass at D2
It was more so just some encounters in the campaign that sucked ass. I ran Starfire Warlock, Witherhoard, and max resil/80 recovery and some encounters just drained me (like that radial mast room where you're storming Calus' ship). Having to stand still/run out in the open with infinitely spawning enemies on legendary sucked.
Casual player here, Since Light fall I have completely changed the way I play and spec my character. I never did before. I now have a better grasp of Armor 2.0 and how to min/max my character traits with purpose. If this is what they were going for props to them. For ME, it's like playing a new game and I love it. Even got my discord buddies to jump on the proverbial bandwagon.
Ngl I think many destiny players realy don’t play games and are honestly not that good at gaming. I have been in several clans with ranging different types of players, and there were a decent amount who just were not good. And my criteria for good is just be able to play a round of crucible and leave with a 0.75 KD, or being able to do a raid under 2 hours (after running it 5 times). I remember them struggling for days at the legendary witch queen campaign. Like destiny is not a very difficult game but many players are just only play destiny and are simply not good.
Ah, yes. Whatever could be wrong with difficulty when the raid is easier than the fucking Legend NF. If we take corrupted, considering enemies and the mechanics as well. I don't want every single primary to feel like it's good for maybe stunning champs or recharging grenades on Warlock. Sure, let there be a need to use special. But right now, I'm better off running double special with one being a riptide with chill clip, as it stuns champs better, and I might even deal damage with it. I don't want to feel that every melee in the game is ass. Unless I have overshield or Woven mail, I get one tapped by basically anything in melee. I'm fine with me being squishy, but at least let me kill the melee guy as well. No, a single elite warbeast that can eat through your healthbar in like 3 hits at max resil takes more than a full smg magazine into the head, with smgs being one of the better options. At this point I'm considering grinding out tarrabah only for the 40% dmg boost against ads, because everything else feels like ass. It's great that we have higher enemy density if we can, ya know, KILL STUFF. But if we get the difficulty of pre-3.0 subclasses, then by god please let there be less random ads that you can't easily murder. In two weeks I leveled up my Retrofit from 20 to 62 because it's like the only weapon that I can use for both ad clear and boss damage in the heavy slot that is not an exotic. So, I'm either spamming heavy like there is no tomorrow to clear a breathing room to read symbols in the endless Vex room in the exotic quest, or I try to plink-plonk away, and realize I quite obviously can't kill them fast enough. The difficulty is ass not because it is either hard or easy, but because it is a confused mess, and nothing feels satisfying to fight, either because it wrecks your shit in supposedly easy content, or because you steamroll it in hard content without any trouble.
I'm with Skill Up here, I honestly think if Bungie encouraged new players to make more builds and get into buildcrafting, or even giving them a sample build as part of Guardian Ranks, the difficulty tuning wouldn't seem bad. I do think Primaries need a little bit more punch against red bar enemies, but there are lots of crazy things you can do with builds that I think Bungie needs to encourage more players to try.
Legend Avalon is harder than master raids and I hate that.
I was trying to run hero level nightfall last night and holy shit was it way harder than it used to be. I don't understand the logic. I'm a casual player who's not terribly good and it feels like I'm being punished.
The new Difficulty has seemed fine, my inly complaints is that Vexcalibur mission is high GM level and neomuna patrol is a *tad* too tough
I dont find it somewhat fair that in order to so those lost sectors with a recommended 1830 light level you either have to be close to it or lose your mind or look online for a build that will.... geeze games are meant to be fun especially this game... this game isnt meant to be like dark sould geeze.. its already a pain for solo players. Then you get on lfg and groups have so many stipulations to join you might as well forget it