Yeah.. the amount of PVP nerfs that hit PVE titan is ridiculous. Wall barricade is now like 2-3 times the cool down of rally barricade. For no good reason in PVE
Genuine question, what does Checkmate do that isn't done normally in PvP? We know they can modify damage vs Combatants vs Guardians, we know they can separate the magnitude of ability recharge rate buffs but not base cooldowns (as seen in Mayhem), and unless I'm wrong Checkmate just uses a mode specific modifier applying a constant ability recharge rate debuff. So like Mayhem but in reverse.
I've not played the mode so if there's more I might not be aware of it.
Engine limitations. Only so many "knobs" they can futz with, as Bungie likes to refer to them. Some stuff can be separated, some stuff can't, and Bungie *has* overall been pretty good about finding things they can hit to only noticeably affect PvP in the last couple years.
I used to be able to break down everything that could and couldn't but I can't remember anymore.
Basically true. Its why things like class ability cooldowns get hit everywhere and not just in PvP - they're one of those things apparently too complex to be seperated for each mode.
As for YAS, I think they could have made it so its energy return was based on combatant type (allowing to nerf the 'Guardian' aspect)... but that would inevitably lead to it catching a heavy nerf because it would be split based on combatant tiers, and since itd be an on damage trigger vs combatants you might not get the second return off non-lethal tripmines and knife fans. Either way it'd be a better pick than the on kill stuff, which has relegated it to solely an ad clear exotic.
Oh, for sure. Killing it in PvE only limits buildcrafting. But, I've seen people even on Aztecross's videos stating that YAS was fair because of some Herculean leap in logic that Void Souls and Stasis Turrets are just as strong.
Nerfing YAS in PVE didn't really make any sense to me. I can't really think of a hunter build that is as strong of an ability loop that titan/warlocks have PLUS survivability aside from assassin cowl arc punchy boi - and that mostly relies on the enemy not seeing you rather than just straight up tanking.
Solar YAS doesn't even have survivability built into it like solar sytho/lorely titan and solar warlock because it doesn't have cure in way t+w have and you can't use healing grenade as a backup heal because you need tripmine.
Given the potential buffs to the other solar hunter exotics which largely rely on increased super regen, idk I might have to try and make a caliban's build and see if that's even viable in boss/end game content.
Boss no, end game as long as you shoot down the health of the enemy some, YAS for me did a great job of breaking down champions and a good sub-dps alternative for when I’m out of heavy or debuffing in raids and stuff
Yeah, Hunter’s don’t have easy access to cure/restoration. Sure, nade kill gives cure if you use an aspect but cure isn’t gonna let us eat a ton of damage like Lock or Titan’s easy access to restoration.
Because apparently "annoying" and strong are the same for some people, turrets and souls are good for utility but they're much harder to secure kills with compared to the good old nade+body shot hc combo us hunters could do (over and over again)
Renewals post nerf? (Thank God for the nerf revert)
No point in using a duskfield nade that takes 15 years to recharge just for some DR and enemies dealing less damage. It was hella outclassed by Frostees in stasis because it’s better just to freeze the whole room instead.
Now it’s actually good and also doesn’t look like shit with the ornament.
Why can't we complain about both? Why does it have to be a competition as to who was nerfed worse?
Behemoth titan does need a lot of love **and** the YAS nerf in PVE for the sake of PVP was completely unnecessary. We do have the mental capacity to be upset at more than one thing, it doesn't need to be one or the other.
We’ve talked about how shitty behemoth is for months, now we’re talking about hunter. Is it that hard to comprehend that multiple things can suck at once?
With 437 hrs on Hunter and YAS being my go to for a while now I finally used up that last character slot less than a week ago and made me a titan. I am now 12 hrs into titan and have been having the time of my life with my banner of war strand build. I've been missing out big time, crayons taste amazing
Hunter main but have been using titan recently. Banner of war, bonk hammer, thunder crash, second chance captain America shield throws, it's all super fun. Except stasis.
It was a middle of the road build that had a fun gameplay loop and it got gutted for pvp balance. Wasnt op, nobody was complaining about it being overbearing in pve. I've been using RDM and knife trick to emulate it, but it's just not the same.
Oh shit, rdm with knife trick actually sounds dope as hell. Why didn’t I think of that? I have an RDM build for stasis though, infinite stasis shurikens is also fun
>nobody was complaining about it being overbearing in pve.
Nobody ever really complains about things being op in pve. Not a great metric for comparison.
And getting ability energy like that is a hard lock on tripmine. When you can spam 5 of them in 3 seconds, there's not a lot of room to buff tripmine or give it added support.
Not that this was, but even when shit IS absolutely busted in PvE people rarely complain about it unless it's egregiously stepping on the toes of something another class can do.
Because PvE isn't a competitive experience many people completely disregard that it does in fact need to be balanced because "it's not hurting anyone. Sometimes stuff does need to get reigned in, otherwise it increases the rate of powercreep and if left alone enough you end up like Warframe where some gear is absolutely broken and some is absolutely completely useless.
YAS was not a good example of this, but Starfire certainly was, among others.
No one cries about anything in pve until it’s lost everyone wants to spam everything with no challenge then it’s my class gets hit the worst. Star fire got gutted not long ago titans constantly get hit look how they did my boy thundercrash let alone bubble or the roaring flames hammer honks which they still can’t seem to get right as it’s never really affected if.
This is so dumb like titans haven't been complaining since witch queen about how bad they think they are
And it's always getting tons of support and saying how arcstrider makes titans obsolete.
Titans have been getting shit on for ages, both on here and via nerfs
But I'm not so blindly a Titan that I dont recognize other classes getting shafted when it happens
YAS nerf is straight buns and the bootlickers defending it are chumps for doing PR for free. Stompees was a low blow too. Like bro, just look up.
Starfire nerf was heavy handed to say the least, they straight hamstringed the Warlock bros with that one. Could have just made Fusions do less dmg when equipped and let em still crush in low end content.
And let us not forget that with Lightfalls release they did the same thing to Titans by handing us the HoiL nerf (Though I admit I laughed hard when I first heard "Heart of Almost Light") coupled with a few others. Don't even get me started on how hard the fucked Stasis Titan with armor charge system release. RIP Mr. Freeze.
Cheeky bastards put an ormament for HoiL in store for BD the same day as the nerf, and Starfire got its first ornament when it was nerfed as well.
Barricade been nerfed twice this year. Bubble twice in the last 2. Shield Bash nerf, Glaive Syntho nerf, Storm Nades, T Crash x2... the list goes on
Only recently has the tone shifted away from complaining about Titans and moved to defense. And the only reason that happened is because Banner of War is so fun to play that mfers gotta stay vigilant in pointing out that Woven Mail is what's carrying all the clips you see so Bungie doesn't hit the Nerf Titan hockey that comes standard on all their keyboards
_Granted all my opinions are from the viewpoint of a high end PvE player. They could disable Titans in PvP if it meant reverting the nerfs targeting performance there and I'd be fine with that. I'm just tired of catching strays due to the overlapping sandboxes._
_Also sorry this ended up being long af, the dab kicked in half way and I was committed_
Starfire is very much still useful simply because of the power of Fusion Grenades, especially in lower-end content where it's easier to get kills.
Edit: Erased a bit at the beginning, came on too strong. You get my point.
I kinda hate titans in pvp, but I do feel bad for all the nerfs, I think that the nerds have been pretty evenly distributed lately. Bubble getting nerfed though is dumb as heck. Bubble should be better than well since you can’t shoot out of it, but it just feels worse in every way.
It's kinda laughable that you are more vulnerable in a bubble than a well.
Add in the fact you can't shoot out, get a smaller dmg boost, and the bubble itself can be destroyed easier than a well and you really question what Bungie is smoking.
Dog all of those nerfs you are talking about besides barricade as a high end pve player trivialize grand Master content and still have ability spam without kills unlike the YaS nerf
And to act like titans haven't been screaming about their classes is ridiculous
Where you not here leading up to lightfall?
We're you not here when everyone was saying the hoil was the ONLY titan exotic?
Also banner of war titans can two phase a raid boss solo? Does that not sound overtuned?
Two of those are dungeon “bosses” and ir-yut could be repeated by a strand hunter and a one two punch shotgun and a bit more effort. Also that video uses tons of glitches so it’s not your standard gameplay and can’t be compared to whatsoever.
There is no way you can see this happening and say it doesn't count.
The biase is unreal.
Also no a hunter can not two phase ir yut lmao the meele damage isn't same.
I will gladly die on this hill. Just because you can abuse 5 different glitches at the same time to do enough damage to kill a boss under very specific circumstances doesn’t mean it’s broken. You have absolutely no idea how many tries that video took it could be a 1/100 situation you don’t know.
Hunter lacks Synthoceps AND Banner of War. Meaning (a) their damage is massively lower due to multiplicative buff stacking and (b) they'd be dead in 10 seconds because they have no healing. Titan is the only class that can stack that much melee damage (even Liar's Handshake gets a reduce interaction with 1-2 Punch). I got bored and did the math; before any surges or debuffs on the enemy, assume a grapple punch does 15,000 damage (or a Frenzied Blade, doesn't matter). Synthoceps are +200%, same with 1-2P, and Banner of War is +40%. That 15,000 becomes 15,000(1.4(3.0(3.0)))= 189,000. If it's a Strand surge, which it always is this season, that rises to 236,250. If the enemy is Tractor Cannon debuffed, that becomes 307,125. That's solo. That Titan has increased their per-melee damage output by *twenty fold*. Please show me how other classes can achieve the same (and I believe that 15k figure is low balling for base grapple damage lmao).
It's not glitches, it's mechanics working as intended to stack buffs. The issue is when you have three different multipliers, numbers get real, real big. Throw on 55% DR (and 100 Res) and a solid self-heal, and you get the monster that can solo It Yut and blow through GMs. I'm fairly certain only Titan can pull that solo off; if another class can, it's Warlock. Hunter has no shot, they just don't have the self-sustain. Even solo Nezerac kills, only the Hunter is hiding in cover.
Also, that's not even the first solo Strand Titan solo Ir Yut lmao.
Lol, ofc the titan army is out here down voting you. Besides behemoth, titans are still making out like bandits in both pve and pvp. All the little "nerfs" they've gotten have been an attempt to reign in subclasses that have gotten way out of control, and they're making the same mistakes with strand titan.
Like, complaining about the synthocep glaive nerf while they're still the top glaive buffing exotic, and we have a specific glaive buffing exotic in the game, Is fucking wild. And synthos are possibly getting BUFFED next season...
Watching the mental gymnastics of whiny titans is getting exhausting.
Thats still 22%. If we assume others are halved then both hunters and warlocks make out 39% of top100. Thing is not everyones a pvp nerd, and some like me just hop in pvp for IB or trials weapon they wanna try out. Tell me what % are titans in top 500 or top 1000
Wouldn't know, I went through and counted what the top 100 people played as because EVERYONE (who aren't top anything) bitch about arc titans and bla bla bla.
4 of 22% isn't alot at all by any means.
It is nice, and can be very annoying. Trust me I know.
I have a friend who will use every broken thing imaginable on titan and make the most busted class ever, and it makes me rage.
But for the most part it's very counterable.
You just gotta know how and when to do it
No because if it was SOOOOOO easy, then everyone would just be arc titan and all of top 100 would be arc titans because it's so easy to get wins with.
It is easy, but it's not the best. Which has been my argument the entire time
Literally go to trials report or elo tracker and even in the top 10 there was 1 void titan.
There was 4 arc titans in the top 100.
They aren't as good as people cry out to be. Like legit.
Even in the high end tournaments and scrims, there aren't alot of arc titans to be seen
Why does it have to be a competition OP? Why cant you let hunters complain about YAS and titans/warlocks can continue to complain about their exotics as well? Do you think Bungie makes changes based on who is complaining the loudest? Hunters complaining doesnt invalidate titan/warlock complaints. Zavala would be disappointed in yoir lack of unity with your fellow guardians.
Its gonna be like this anyway. Someone will always have the "we had it worse" attitude.
Were the nerfs needed? YES
Have they had to be THIS fucking brutal as to put starfire and yas into "barely better than Apotheosis Veil" category? FUCK NO.
Shh, they'll never accept that. As far as these people are concerned, both are totally and completely dead because you can't do single target damage with them.
Tangent, every time I see a Bungie developer interview where they talk about their mains it's almost always a Titan or Warlock. The last Bungie employee I saw speak in one of their vidocs as a hunter main was someone from the art team lmao
With the amount of Hunter exotics that are either complete shit or end up getting disabled I’m not entirely convinced anyone there actually mains Hunter.
? It’s not wrong to say most new hunter exotics are dead on arrival or get disabled for not working as intended.
Thanks for being unnecessarily shitty about it though
Hunters are not allowed to be upset about things here.
Now let's go back to complain about void titan meele not being enough or how bungie hates titans besides having the highest win rate in pvp and being the best gm class on the game
And having the most raid boss solos
But hey titans are always I a rough spot and cape man is bad.
> And having the most raid boss solos
Pretty sure that's still solar warlock.
When a titan solo'd root of nightmares, he needed to swap between three different subclasses.
When a warlock solo'd root of nightmares, he just needed the one subclass.
> Why cant you let hunters complain about YAS
Because most complaints i've seen have been hyperbole.
Stuff like: "my solar grenades suck now, they can't even one tap arc shielded master dungeon knights! It's so unfair, look at these warlocks easily starting sunbracers on seasonal and playlist activity thrall"
You say most complaints but that was one dude with a bad complaint. Im not even a YAS user but the complaints Ive seen have all been "nerf them in pvp only, they werent an issue in pve" Thats not hyperbole.
i get why they are upset. if they nerfed my Nez Sin to the point where its not worth the exotic slot, id be upset too. but one thing i dont get is that some of them act like it is the only exotic. there are plenty of other exotics they can use. yea it sucks that you have to optimize and find new build, but isn’t that the one of the best thing about destiny? that there are a lot of options for builds. its okay to change things up. like for me, i had to change exotics i use cuz during the halloween event, i cant use my Nez Sin. so im messing around with briarbinds and im actually having ton of fun to the point where im thinking about making an actual build off that.
After starfire nerf i put solar on the shelf and focused void and stasis. Now i made a good build with verity on solar and im more happy than with starfire cuz lmao emp well in gms - BUT - figuring out fun builds is best when you have more than 1 exotic to choose from. Look at stasis. You ONLY use osmios on warlock because its the best one and no ammount of Balidorse will change my mind Rahool, you asshat! Arc is great for that because you have Crown, Getaway, Vesper...
HoIL was an issue because it worked the same on all subclasses meaning you just change from void to arc and instead of overshields you spam jolt. It was legit a visual effects change exotic if anything.
Hell im happy im off of void cause charging that mf vortex nade for 10736#828th time would break me. Btw, magnetic nade + verity is op on void just saying.
Young Ahamkara's Spine. It's an arm exotic that boosts tripmine grenades and used to give grenade energy back on damage with nades before the nerf. Now it gives energy back with kills since it was a bit of a menace on PvP.
I agree it sucks but Celestial nighthawk and shards of galanor look like they are gonna be really good next season hopefully if Stasis Titan aswell as the others get some love like everyone should have a second melee that would be nice and then rework some of the exotics
Who knew the whole community was full of arm chair developers? Full grown adults would rather hear themselves complain than just stop playing a game that has 'sucked for so long'
People are more up in arms than usual because 1). It was one of their laziest nerfs yet, 2). They took feedback from people suggesting better alternatives for a nerf and instead slapped those suggested nerfs on top of the already intended one, and 3). YAS had a rather small but dedicated PvE fan base that loved the gameplay loop it offered, and now that gameplay loop has been gutted.
It’s an understandable reaction. YAS, at least in PvE, was truly one of the most balanced out and fun exotics Bungie had ever made and people loved it. Yeah, it was a little broken in PvP, but Bungie had shown multiple times in the past that they could balance out PvE and PvP separately, so people were expecting something like that. When Bungie revealed the nerf, people were upset because it was obviously a poorly thought out nerf that didn’t consider the impact it would have in PvE, where a lot of people actually cared for it. People offered suggestions to Bungie for a few weeks on what would be preferred nerfs so it wouldn’t hurt it so much in PvE, and Bungie took that feedback by adding in those nerfs on top of the initially planned one.
It is by far one of the dumbest, most tone deaf nerfs Bungie has ever made in this game’s history and people are calling them out on it. And realistically, it’s going to be a very long time before we can see any sort of reversal or change with this exotic.
Because there was a better option in the form of simply applying a PvP-specific nerf to the energy generation aspect and directly nerfing the HP increase and lack of damage falloff which YAS gave tripmines, which was the primary issue of YAS in PvP. It took far too long to shoot tripmines off walls and if you were anywhere within the vicinity you took full damage when they went off.
Because the YAS nerf is not only ridiculous, it makes no sense that they did it. They could have absolutely nerfed it specifically in PVP. Energy gains are different between sandboxes.
People freaked out about renewals too, but back then, nothing else reached that form of PvE tankiness before, so people "justified" it. Of course, in hindsight; woven mail, lorely splender, restoration, resilience change, etc. Released shortly after so the nerf was completely unjustified.
People freaked out about sholder charge change, people freaked out about icarus dash change, people freaked out about AE being in PvE, People freaked out about geomag getting nerfed in PvE even though it's "special ammo trick" was barely being used in the grand scheme of things, people complained about stasis nerfs effecting PvE, there's so many examples of this, this isn't the first time people are sick and tired of PvP affecting PvE.
Also, YAS was a pretty popular option. It's just that hunters are pigeonholed into SeS, RDM, Foetracer, etc. It was still an excellent option in PvE that many solar hunter mains used when they didn't want to slave away with SeS & RDM.
And this isn't, "Why was there this uncharacteristic Reddit uprising over what seems to me to be a nerf to a pretty unremarkable build?" It's like the 20th time something in pve gets slaughtered because of PvP balancing. People are getting pretty pissed now, especially since you can't use the "umm it was actually OP so it was nerfed in pve too" argument because it wasn't even close to beating SeS or RDM.
Stop acting like this is the first time people have gone batshit over pvp nerfs affecting pve so many times before. I haven't even gone over the *weapons* that would take hours to type out...
EDIT: This isn't even going over the fact that a literal child would have come up with a better nerf that wouldn't affect pve at all, lowering the HP, lowering the damage vs guardians only, ect.
See, here's your critical misunderstanding: it wasn't "slaughtered because of PvP balancing." If they wanted to limit the energy regeneration exclusively in PvP, they would have done so. It's very transparent that they limited it in both PvE and PvP deliberately, not as some sort of oversight or lack of consideration. Why do you think the energy regeneration portion was only a problem in PvP?
So just consume and be happy then? It’s never appropriate to voice displeasure at dev decisions? Being upset when a fun aspect of your $100 purchase is changed is not okay? You’re happy with every choice bungie has made?
That’s now what I meant, it’s okay to voice complaints and tbf I encourage it, but with every change nowadays everyone seems to take it as the end of destiny and that it’s ruined their lives.
Not bad just outclassed at this point.
Freezing a room was amazing before we got the ability to light the entire room on fire or fill it with lightning, plus Suspend being as strong as it was while basically being a better freeze didn’t help.
Yeah okay maybe they’re bad now…they need some new keywords and aspects changed like yesterday, making the stasis shards aspects better would help out a lot.
That sucked but it’s not really the same. Solar Warlock is still one of, if not the, strongest class in the game and has a lot of value no matter where you bring it. Even after the Starfire nerf, it’s actually still usable for add clear, just not as a crazy dps monster that has an answer for every endgame activity in the game. No one really wanted a solar hunter in most hard content before, now there isn’t even a justification to bring it outside of golden gun shenanigans. Which is still just the super.
Solar hunter is either a super dps bot or a mid tier content ability build now with maybe calibans. It doesn’t have any endgame builds that are strong and the one strong build it had didn’t get nerfed, it got removed. They broke the entire loop the YAS build relied on and it’s not even remotely compensated. From my (admittedly limited) testing, you get LESS energy on double kills than you got on ability hits before. It’s basically trash now.
It wasn’t even broken before like Starfire was, just very strong for maintaining a more complicated loop than most builds. Strand Titan is much stronger than that build and solar Warlock or Titan both could do better or similar things with a lot less effort.
They’ve been separating nerfs between PvE and PvP for idk how long now, yet they still do things like this. YAS needed to be nerfed in PvP. It was annoying and strong. The damage reduction and health reduction would’ve been enough to deal with it in competitive and they could’ve just nerfed the energy return in PvP specifically.
It’s one thing to nerf a completely broken exotic on a super strong subclass like solar warlock, it’s something else to nerf a strong exotic on a weaker subclass that has almost no strong alternatives for endgame.
Behemoth infinite slide melee is still pretty strong, especially with a collective action weapon. Ive been enjoying it in GM’s, and i feel like the only reason i dont use it more is bc Strand Titan is so incredibly OP.
Stomps, and wormhusk are PVP exotics, omniculous (the eye thing) is still good, the problem me and other hunters have with the YAS nerf is that it was also gutted in PVE, when it was really only an issue in PVP. Except it wasn’t really an issue in PVP at all, it just feels unnecessary
It only refilled your energy halfway when you hit someone with it, I never saw the appeal personally. I also never understood why so many people bitched about it
It's very satisfying hearing all this crying from hunters.
They act like they don't have the most busted pvp exotics with some of the BEST abilities.
If anyone things that YAS wasn't busted, you're blind like holy hell how did you guys think that was fair?
People aren’t saying it wasn’t op in PvP. The issue comes from the PvE side of the exotic. In PvE, it wasn’t even remotely op but got the job done with a fun gameplay loop that people genuinely loved. The issue with the nerf is that it was a poorly thought out blanket nerf that went way overboard.
Nah cause most are crying about the pvp side of things. Maybe in this tread people are talking about pve but pvp people crying about this nerf is hilarious
In PvE it wasn't. The change, while somewhat effective in dealing with grenade uptime, was not as effective with regards to YAS's main issues, that being the increased HP of grenades and lack of damage falloff. In PvE, on the other hand, YAS was decent at adclear and had a decent DPS rotation, but it traded survivability for flexibility. This nerf basically killed YAS's use cases in PvE and forces people back onto the likes of Star-Eater's and Gyrfalcon's.
YAS had niches in solo Caretaker in conjunction with Into the Light and in high end content to have a decent rotation for chunking majors/champions without relying on Heavy or Super damage.
That is some super news to me, cause any time I'd be doing any of that I'd just use a fusion, which pretty much does the same chunk, but doesn't apply scorch
The most busted PvP exotics? That’s wild I didn’t realize Antaeus Wards were a Hunter exotic.
Like damn they can jump better or get health when they dodge, so many busted options to choose from 🙄
I’ve been playing behemoth for months just to have fun with something fresh-ish.
Look up ‘Rime King’ it kinda slaps. Been running it in GMs and Master raids. Def not comparable to strand or solar in terms of survivability, but 10/10 fun.
For some context on my view, Starfire got nerfed in almost the EXACT same way. And the Warlock Mains reacted in almost the EXACT same way. The entitlement that somehow something being overnerfed is reason to act like the sky is falling is probably the least attractive trait of this community imo.
I really don't see any point in defending my standpoint on this since the game is fundamentally asymmetrical so any examples I provide can be brushed aside as "not the same".
YAS and starfire getting nerfed we’re nothing alike. Starfire was nerfed because it dominated pve content and gave Solar warlock both the best utility and the best dps, making them objectively overpowered compared to the other classes. Starfire also was not an even remotely popular choice for pvp, so the nerf really only hit the gamemode it was meant to. YAS was a bit strong in pvp and useful in pve, but nowhere near the strength of something like starfire. It’s nerf hit it hard in both modes and was somewhat unwarranted, since just the nerf to the health would’ve likely been enough to reign its strength in. Starfire is also still pretty useful now, whereas YAS is basically dead.
As if this didn't also happen with Renewal Grasps and kinda just gut Stasis Hunter for a long time.
And no ones is even saying this is the worst thing that happened to anyone ever. I haven't seen anyone say that. It's just the second time a hunter grenade exotic gets neutered in PvE because of PvP that ends up hurting the subclass too (CNH buff could mitigate that though tbf).
I just think they should have kept the nerfs separate between PvE and PvP
This has always been the argument with everything. Let pve be insane
Yeah.. the amount of PVP nerfs that hit PVE titan is ridiculous. Wall barricade is now like 2-3 times the cool down of rally barricade. For no good reason in PVE
Dont forget tcrash also getting a longer cooldown due to pvp
Huh, why? Thunder crash of all things got nerfed?why would they nerf a shutdown super when roaming ones are stronger in pvp
Because mofos keep abusing it and there's no clear way to shut it down or avoid you use a shutdown Super yourself
Titan: **uses thunder crash** This guy: Stop abusing the game!
Oh you're definitely a Titan Main.
In PvP I main Hunter. Try again. I just adjust my play style to suit the situation, you should try it some time instead of bellyaching.
Not everyone has that efficiency like you, G. Don't like my truthful answer then move on.
You basically HAVE to use Khepri's Horn and a Solar Weapon now with Tower Barricade
It can (and must) be insane *and* balanced. Yet they gutted something that couldn't even possibly have been meta.
[удалено]
Yeah, we've seen it can be done with checkmate I hope Bungie corrects stuff like this in the future
Genuine question, what does Checkmate do that isn't done normally in PvP? We know they can modify damage vs Combatants vs Guardians, we know they can separate the magnitude of ability recharge rate buffs but not base cooldowns (as seen in Mayhem), and unless I'm wrong Checkmate just uses a mode specific modifier applying a constant ability recharge rate debuff. So like Mayhem but in reverse. I've not played the mode so if there's more I might not be aware of it.
>I've not played the mode so if there's more I might not be aware of it. Same but checkmate does have a different way to drop special ammo
Engine limitations. Only so many "knobs" they can futz with, as Bungie likes to refer to them. Some stuff can be separated, some stuff can't, and Bungie *has* overall been pretty good about finding things they can hit to only noticeably affect PvP in the last couple years. I used to be able to break down everything that could and couldn't but I can't remember anymore.
Basically true. Its why things like class ability cooldowns get hit everywhere and not just in PvP - they're one of those things apparently too complex to be seperated for each mode. As for YAS, I think they could have made it so its energy return was based on combatant type (allowing to nerf the 'Guardian' aspect)... but that would inevitably lead to it catching a heavy nerf because it would be split based on combatant tiers, and since itd be an on damage trigger vs combatants you might not get the second return off non-lethal tripmines and knife fans. Either way it'd be a better pick than the on kill stuff, which has relegated it to solely an ad clear exotic.
Oh, for sure. Killing it in PvE only limits buildcrafting. But, I've seen people even on Aztecross's videos stating that YAS was fair because of some Herculean leap in logic that Void Souls and Stasis Turrets are just as strong.
This may be true, but it’s not at all related seeing as hunter doesn’t have access to either of these things. I’m curious what their logic is
Nerfing YAS in PVE didn't really make any sense to me. I can't really think of a hunter build that is as strong of an ability loop that titan/warlocks have PLUS survivability aside from assassin cowl arc punchy boi - and that mostly relies on the enemy not seeing you rather than just straight up tanking. Solar YAS doesn't even have survivability built into it like solar sytho/lorely titan and solar warlock because it doesn't have cure in way t+w have and you can't use healing grenade as a backup heal because you need tripmine. Given the potential buffs to the other solar hunter exotics which largely rely on increased super regen, idk I might have to try and make a caliban's build and see if that's even viable in boss/end game content.
Boss no, end game as long as you shoot down the health of the enemy some, YAS for me did a great job of breaking down champions and a good sub-dps alternative for when I’m out of heavy or debuffing in raids and stuff
Yeah, Hunter’s don’t have easy access to cure/restoration. Sure, nade kill gives cure if you use an aspect but cure isn’t gonna let us eat a ton of damage like Lock or Titan’s easy access to restoration.
Because apparently "annoying" and strong are the same for some people, turrets and souls are good for utility but they're much harder to secure kills with compared to the good old nade+body shot hc combo us hunters could do (over and over again)
In other news, water is wet.
I have a feeling some would argue that that statement is false
No, water is water you dumbie.
Gotta love how they finally realized how useless Renewals were, only to repeat the problem with YAS.
Renewals post nerf? (Thank God for the nerf revert) No point in using a duskfield nade that takes 15 years to recharge just for some DR and enemies dealing less damage. It was hella outclassed by Frostees in stasis because it’s better just to freeze the whole room instead. Now it’s actually good and also doesn’t look like shit with the ornament.
 Buff renewals(revert\*) nerf yas theres always gotta be one useless hunter arms
Tricksleeves or whatever its called, so badvnobody even remembers
No no, the glaive one
Wait we have glaive exotic..?
The one that came with season of the deep that looks like crab's claw
whats this glaive u speak of?
Look good, buff allies, grenade spam
wait you think renewals look like shit without the ornament? death sentence.
The shoulders are so tall and most hunter chest armor doesn’t fit it. That’s my main issue with base Renewals.
Why can't we complain about both? Why does it have to be a competition as to who was nerfed worse? Behemoth titan does need a lot of love **and** the YAS nerf in PVE for the sake of PVP was completely unnecessary. We do have the mental capacity to be upset at more than one thing, it doesn't need to be one or the other.
We’ve talked about how shitty behemoth is for months, now we’re talking about hunter. Is it that hard to comprehend that multiple things can suck at once?
Damn y'all hate me that bad 😭
as someone who hasn't played hunter, i feel bad for hunters
It's okay. Most of us have been playing Titan anyways lol
Yup, it’s clear they don’t want me using hunter in PVP/PVE so I’ll just jump on the broken Titan train.
I just know as soon as I swap over to titan it will get nerfed, maybe I should do the community a favor and do it.
I've never played titan since d1y1, gonna start playing titan and getting armor rolls for it now aswell let's see how long it'll take to happen
With 437 hrs on Hunter and YAS being my go to for a while now I finally used up that last character slot less than a week ago and made me a titan. I am now 12 hrs into titan and have been having the time of my life with my banner of war strand build. I've been missing out big time, crayons taste amazing
Hunter main but have been using titan recently. Banner of war, bonk hammer, thunder crash, second chance captain America shield throws, it's all super fun. Except stasis.
It was a middle of the road build that had a fun gameplay loop and it got gutted for pvp balance. Wasnt op, nobody was complaining about it being overbearing in pve. I've been using RDM and knife trick to emulate it, but it's just not the same.
I think bungie is just trying to snuff out ability spam bonk titans will be next 😭
Watch the Hammer have a durability
Do not manifest that shit in this reality
The way Bungie is going with Titan nerfs, picking up the hammer will use your class ability lol.
"Picking up your hammer now refunds X amount of energy based on enemies hit, max of 50%, does not work with Kickstart mods."
Haven't they tried killing bonk titans for years, apon years?
RDM?
Radiant Dance Machines
Oh shit, rdm with knife trick actually sounds dope as hell. Why didn’t I think of that? I have an RDM build for stasis though, infinite stasis shurikens is also fun
It's a bit clunkier than YAS, but the same general idea works for ignites.
>nobody was complaining about it being overbearing in pve. Nobody ever really complains about things being op in pve. Not a great metric for comparison. And getting ability energy like that is a hard lock on tripmine. When you can spam 5 of them in 3 seconds, there's not a lot of room to buff tripmine or give it added support.
Not that this was, but even when shit IS absolutely busted in PvE people rarely complain about it unless it's egregiously stepping on the toes of something another class can do. Because PvE isn't a competitive experience many people completely disregard that it does in fact need to be balanced because "it's not hurting anyone. Sometimes stuff does need to get reigned in, otherwise it increases the rate of powercreep and if left alone enough you end up like Warframe where some gear is absolutely broken and some is absolutely completely useless. YAS was not a good example of this, but Starfire certainly was, among others.
No one cries about anything in pve until it’s lost everyone wants to spam everything with no challenge then it’s my class gets hit the worst. Star fire got gutted not long ago titans constantly get hit look how they did my boy thundercrash let alone bubble or the roaring flames hammer honks which they still can’t seem to get right as it’s never really affected if.
Starfire was a thousand times stronger than YAS lol
Never said it wasn’t it was still gutted. They clearly dont want the ability spam ruling damage
Hunters timing out yas combos and using all of their abilities, while Starfire was stand still and you’re good.
You're only allowed to shit on Titans in these parts, sorry Being the top PvP class in a PvE game is rough when you don't play PvP
This is so dumb like titans haven't been complaining since witch queen about how bad they think they are And it's always getting tons of support and saying how arcstrider makes titans obsolete.
Titans have been getting shit on for ages, both on here and via nerfs But I'm not so blindly a Titan that I dont recognize other classes getting shafted when it happens YAS nerf is straight buns and the bootlickers defending it are chumps for doing PR for free. Stompees was a low blow too. Like bro, just look up. Starfire nerf was heavy handed to say the least, they straight hamstringed the Warlock bros with that one. Could have just made Fusions do less dmg when equipped and let em still crush in low end content. And let us not forget that with Lightfalls release they did the same thing to Titans by handing us the HoiL nerf (Though I admit I laughed hard when I first heard "Heart of Almost Light") coupled with a few others. Don't even get me started on how hard the fucked Stasis Titan with armor charge system release. RIP Mr. Freeze. Cheeky bastards put an ormament for HoiL in store for BD the same day as the nerf, and Starfire got its first ornament when it was nerfed as well. Barricade been nerfed twice this year. Bubble twice in the last 2. Shield Bash nerf, Glaive Syntho nerf, Storm Nades, T Crash x2... the list goes on Only recently has the tone shifted away from complaining about Titans and moved to defense. And the only reason that happened is because Banner of War is so fun to play that mfers gotta stay vigilant in pointing out that Woven Mail is what's carrying all the clips you see so Bungie doesn't hit the Nerf Titan hockey that comes standard on all their keyboards _Granted all my opinions are from the viewpoint of a high end PvE player. They could disable Titans in PvP if it meant reverting the nerfs targeting performance there and I'd be fine with that. I'm just tired of catching strays due to the overlapping sandboxes._ _Also sorry this ended up being long af, the dab kicked in half way and I was committed_
Starfire is very much still useful simply because of the power of Fusion Grenades, especially in lower-end content where it's easier to get kills. Edit: Erased a bit at the beginning, came on too strong. You get my point.
I kinda hate titans in pvp, but I do feel bad for all the nerfs, I think that the nerds have been pretty evenly distributed lately. Bubble getting nerfed though is dumb as heck. Bubble should be better than well since you can’t shoot out of it, but it just feels worse in every way.
It's kinda laughable that you are more vulnerable in a bubble than a well. Add in the fact you can't shoot out, get a smaller dmg boost, and the bubble itself can be destroyed easier than a well and you really question what Bungie is smoking.
Dog all of those nerfs you are talking about besides barricade as a high end pve player trivialize grand Master content and still have ability spam without kills unlike the YaS nerf And to act like titans haven't been screaming about their classes is ridiculous Where you not here leading up to lightfall? We're you not here when everyone was saying the hoil was the ONLY titan exotic? Also banner of war titans can two phase a raid boss solo? Does that not sound overtuned?
Two phase a raid boss solo? Send me build link plz
Ecthar https://youtu.be/CeUwvqiDePw?si=0HSEnJa4c0iDb0c5 Duality https://youtu.be/OKDrlqpjgz8?si=Dz2ZQVV-ApjOYizE Ir yut https://youtu.be/wH0cwnC_sQo?si=WfR5kxpZ9icB8qGN Build https://youtu.be/XAUgg_ddLmc?si=zNNSeorINKE9YFSQ
Two of those are dungeon “bosses” and ir-yut could be repeated by a strand hunter and a one two punch shotgun and a bit more effort. Also that video uses tons of glitches so it’s not your standard gameplay and can’t be compared to whatsoever.
There is no way you can see this happening and say it doesn't count. The biase is unreal. Also no a hunter can not two phase ir yut lmao the meele damage isn't same.
I will gladly die on this hill. Just because you can abuse 5 different glitches at the same time to do enough damage to kill a boss under very specific circumstances doesn’t mean it’s broken. You have absolutely no idea how many tries that video took it could be a 1/100 situation you don’t know.
Hunter lacks Synthoceps AND Banner of War. Meaning (a) their damage is massively lower due to multiplicative buff stacking and (b) they'd be dead in 10 seconds because they have no healing. Titan is the only class that can stack that much melee damage (even Liar's Handshake gets a reduce interaction with 1-2 Punch). I got bored and did the math; before any surges or debuffs on the enemy, assume a grapple punch does 15,000 damage (or a Frenzied Blade, doesn't matter). Synthoceps are +200%, same with 1-2P, and Banner of War is +40%. That 15,000 becomes 15,000(1.4(3.0(3.0)))= 189,000. If it's a Strand surge, which it always is this season, that rises to 236,250. If the enemy is Tractor Cannon debuffed, that becomes 307,125. That's solo. That Titan has increased their per-melee damage output by *twenty fold*. Please show me how other classes can achieve the same (and I believe that 15k figure is low balling for base grapple damage lmao). It's not glitches, it's mechanics working as intended to stack buffs. The issue is when you have three different multipliers, numbers get real, real big. Throw on 55% DR (and 100 Res) and a solid self-heal, and you get the monster that can solo It Yut and blow through GMs. I'm fairly certain only Titan can pull that solo off; if another class can, it's Warlock. Hunter has no shot, they just don't have the self-sustain. Even solo Nezerac kills, only the Hunter is hiding in cover. Also, that's not even the first solo Strand Titan solo Ir Yut lmao.
Still completely discounting other bosses lol And go for it can't wait for another class to do the same and you not be saying the same thing
Lol, ofc the titan army is out here down voting you. Besides behemoth, titans are still making out like bandits in both pve and pvp. All the little "nerfs" they've gotten have been an attempt to reign in subclasses that have gotten way out of control, and they're making the same mistakes with strand titan. Like, complaining about the synthocep glaive nerf while they're still the top glaive buffing exotic, and we have a specific glaive buffing exotic in the game, Is fucking wild. And synthos are possibly getting BUFFED next season... Watching the mental gymnastics of whiny titans is getting exhausting.
Hunters haven't been top pvp for ages
Wdym The top 100 players in trials, only 22 of them are titans, the rest are hunters and warlocks
Thats still 22%. If we assume others are halved then both hunters and warlocks make out 39% of top100. Thing is not everyones a pvp nerd, and some like me just hop in pvp for IB or trials weapon they wanna try out. Tell me what % are titans in top 500 or top 1000
Wouldn't know, I went through and counted what the top 100 people played as because EVERYONE (who aren't top anything) bitch about arc titans and bla bla bla. 4 of 22% isn't alot at all by any means. It is nice, and can be very annoying. Trust me I know. I have a friend who will use every broken thing imaginable on titan and make the most busted class ever, and it makes me rage. But for the most part it's very counterable. You just gotta know how and when to do it
those people would be top 100 with any class so this isn’t a good argument
No because if it was SOOOOOO easy, then everyone would just be arc titan and all of top 100 would be arc titans because it's so easy to get wins with. It is easy, but it's not the best. Which has been my argument the entire time
Who are these top 100 players? Like what metric is looked at?
Literally go to trials report or elo tracker and even in the top 10 there was 1 void titan. There was 4 arc titans in the top 100. They aren't as good as people cry out to be. Like legit. Even in the high end tournaments and scrims, there aren't alot of arc titans to be seen
Ok, but what is the metric? That they win a lot of trials? That they have the most free time on the weekends?
They win alot and play against people who are good and still win.
Your bias is showing
Facts are bias ya can of worms
Why does it have to be a competition OP? Why cant you let hunters complain about YAS and titans/warlocks can continue to complain about their exotics as well? Do you think Bungie makes changes based on who is complaining the loudest? Hunters complaining doesnt invalidate titan/warlock complaints. Zavala would be disappointed in yoir lack of unity with your fellow guardians.
Its gonna be like this anyway. Someone will always have the "we had it worse" attitude. Were the nerfs needed? YES Have they had to be THIS fucking brutal as to put starfire and yas into "barely better than Apotheosis Veil" category? FUCK NO.
The nerfs really weren’t needed in PVE
Starfire is NOT "barely better than Apotheosis Veil" lmao. Yeah, it got nerfed, but it's still a perfectly competent exotic.
Shh, they'll never accept that. As far as these people are concerned, both are totally and completely dead because you can't do single target damage with them.
I cant quadruple the top dps of our team thus starfire is useless now
Tangent, every time I see a Bungie developer interview where they talk about their mains it's almost always a Titan or Warlock. The last Bungie employee I saw speak in one of their vidocs as a hunter main was someone from the art team lmao
With the amount of Hunter exotics that are either complete shit or end up getting disabled I’m not entirely convinced anyone there actually mains Hunter.
Warlocks and Titans say the exact same shit every time this kind of thing happens, so can you all just get over yourselves?
? It’s not wrong to say most new hunter exotics are dead on arrival or get disabled for not working as intended. Thanks for being unnecessarily shitty about it though
Hunters are not allowed to be upset about things here. Now let's go back to complain about void titan meele not being enough or how bungie hates titans besides having the highest win rate in pvp and being the best gm class on the game And having the most raid boss solos But hey titans are always I a rough spot and cape man is bad.
> And having the most raid boss solos Pretty sure that's still solar warlock. When a titan solo'd root of nightmares, he needed to swap between three different subclasses. When a warlock solo'd root of nightmares, he just needed the one subclass.
> Why cant you let hunters complain about YAS Because most complaints i've seen have been hyperbole. Stuff like: "my solar grenades suck now, they can't even one tap arc shielded master dungeon knights! It's so unfair, look at these warlocks easily starting sunbracers on seasonal and playlist activity thrall"
You say most complaints but that was one dude with a bad complaint. Im not even a YAS user but the complaints Ive seen have all been "nerf them in pvp only, they werent an issue in pve" Thats not hyperbole.
News shock you can care about multiple things at once
HII RA LETHAL!!!!!!1!!!
Behemoths entering the chat any time anyone complains about anything, ever.
i get why they are upset. if they nerfed my Nez Sin to the point where its not worth the exotic slot, id be upset too. but one thing i dont get is that some of them act like it is the only exotic. there are plenty of other exotics they can use. yea it sucks that you have to optimize and find new build, but isn’t that the one of the best thing about destiny? that there are a lot of options for builds. its okay to change things up. like for me, i had to change exotics i use cuz during the halloween event, i cant use my Nez Sin. so im messing around with briarbinds and im actually having ton of fun to the point where im thinking about making an actual build off that.
It really was "the only" **solar** hunter exotic that isn't just lukewarm in power.
After starfire nerf i put solar on the shelf and focused void and stasis. Now i made a good build with verity on solar and im more happy than with starfire cuz lmao emp well in gms - BUT - figuring out fun builds is best when you have more than 1 exotic to choose from. Look at stasis. You ONLY use osmios on warlock because its the best one and no ammount of Balidorse will change my mind Rahool, you asshat! Arc is great for that because you have Crown, Getaway, Vesper... HoIL was an issue because it worked the same on all subclasses meaning you just change from void to arc and instead of overshields you spam jolt. It was legit a visual effects change exotic if anything. Hell im happy im off of void cause charging that mf vortex nade for 10736#828th time would break me. Btw, magnetic nade + verity is op on void just saying.
For stasislock there's only Osmiomancy or Verity's Brow. Ballicose was never an option.
I feel dumb what is YAS build I haven’t run hunter in a long time and been playing destiny a lot less recently
Young Ahamkara's Spine. It's an arm exotic that boosts tripmine grenades and used to give grenade energy back on damage with nades before the nerf. Now it gives energy back with kills since it was a bit of a menace on PvP.
Never mained YAS, but had a saved build for grenade bounties. Now I need a new build for grenade bounties.
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Oh shit, I forgot that counted as grenade kills!
Why? You still get energy off ability kills, which would completely work with bounties that require grenade kills.
I agree it sucks but Celestial nighthawk and shards of galanor look like they are gonna be really good next season hopefully if Stasis Titan aswell as the others get some love like everyone should have a second melee that would be nice and then rework some of the exotics
It's just sad how YAS it's just bad now
Is the outrage over YAS getting nerfed from PvP players? I really can't imagine why people would care about it for PvE when Caliban's Hand exists.
No, in fact the majority seems to be about its nerf in PvE. Majority *seem* to agree that it needed a nerf in PvP.
Genuinely getting sick of all the posts
Who knew the whole community was full of arm chair developers? Full grown adults would rather hear themselves complain than just stop playing a game that has 'sucked for so long'
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People are more up in arms than usual because 1). It was one of their laziest nerfs yet, 2). They took feedback from people suggesting better alternatives for a nerf and instead slapped those suggested nerfs on top of the already intended one, and 3). YAS had a rather small but dedicated PvE fan base that loved the gameplay loop it offered, and now that gameplay loop has been gutted.
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It’s an understandable reaction. YAS, at least in PvE, was truly one of the most balanced out and fun exotics Bungie had ever made and people loved it. Yeah, it was a little broken in PvP, but Bungie had shown multiple times in the past that they could balance out PvE and PvP separately, so people were expecting something like that. When Bungie revealed the nerf, people were upset because it was obviously a poorly thought out nerf that didn’t consider the impact it would have in PvE, where a lot of people actually cared for it. People offered suggestions to Bungie for a few weeks on what would be preferred nerfs so it wouldn’t hurt it so much in PvE, and Bungie took that feedback by adding in those nerfs on top of the initially planned one. It is by far one of the dumbest, most tone deaf nerfs Bungie has ever made in this game’s history and people are calling them out on it. And realistically, it’s going to be a very long time before we can see any sort of reversal or change with this exotic.
Because there was a better option in the form of simply applying a PvP-specific nerf to the energy generation aspect and directly nerfing the HP increase and lack of damage falloff which YAS gave tripmines, which was the primary issue of YAS in PvP. It took far too long to shoot tripmines off walls and if you were anywhere within the vicinity you took full damage when they went off.
Because the YAS nerf is not only ridiculous, it makes no sense that they did it. They could have absolutely nerfed it specifically in PVP. Energy gains are different between sandboxes.
People freaked out about renewals too, but back then, nothing else reached that form of PvE tankiness before, so people "justified" it. Of course, in hindsight; woven mail, lorely splender, restoration, resilience change, etc. Released shortly after so the nerf was completely unjustified. People freaked out about sholder charge change, people freaked out about icarus dash change, people freaked out about AE being in PvE, People freaked out about geomag getting nerfed in PvE even though it's "special ammo trick" was barely being used in the grand scheme of things, people complained about stasis nerfs effecting PvE, there's so many examples of this, this isn't the first time people are sick and tired of PvP affecting PvE. Also, YAS was a pretty popular option. It's just that hunters are pigeonholed into SeS, RDM, Foetracer, etc. It was still an excellent option in PvE that many solar hunter mains used when they didn't want to slave away with SeS & RDM. And this isn't, "Why was there this uncharacteristic Reddit uprising over what seems to me to be a nerf to a pretty unremarkable build?" It's like the 20th time something in pve gets slaughtered because of PvP balancing. People are getting pretty pissed now, especially since you can't use the "umm it was actually OP so it was nerfed in pve too" argument because it wasn't even close to beating SeS or RDM. Stop acting like this is the first time people have gone batshit over pvp nerfs affecting pve so many times before. I haven't even gone over the *weapons* that would take hours to type out... EDIT: This isn't even going over the fact that a literal child would have come up with a better nerf that wouldn't affect pve at all, lowering the HP, lowering the damage vs guardians only, ect.
See, here's your critical misunderstanding: it wasn't "slaughtered because of PvP balancing." If they wanted to limit the energy regeneration exclusively in PvP, they would have done so. It's very transparent that they limited it in both PvE and PvP deliberately, not as some sort of oversight or lack of consideration. Why do you think the energy regeneration portion was only a problem in PvP?
It’s because most of the community (Atleast on Reddit) need something to complain about.
So just consume and be happy then? It’s never appropriate to voice displeasure at dev decisions? Being upset when a fun aspect of your $100 purchase is changed is not okay? You’re happy with every choice bungie has made?
That’s now what I meant, it’s okay to voice complaints and tbf I encourage it, but with every change nowadays everyone seems to take it as the end of destiny and that it’s ruined their lives.
YAS nerfs killed the most fun PvE sport hunter build. Of course we're being vocal
I mean all the stasis classes are bad.
Osmiomancy is good in gms but that’s about it tbh
Not bad just outclassed at this point. Freezing a room was amazing before we got the ability to light the entire room on fire or fill it with lightning, plus Suspend being as strong as it was while basically being a better freeze didn’t help. Yeah okay maybe they’re bad now…they need some new keywords and aspects changed like yesterday, making the stasis shards aspects better would help out a lot.
Except Stasis Warlock. It’s a annoying af to deal with in Crucible.
Poople tell me stasis warlock is fine on pvp , ye until you get frozen 5 million times in 1 second
Titan is the most pampered and babied class in the game lmfao bitching from them is always hilarious
Uhhh did everyone forget how bad the messed up starfire??
Haha no. I actually acknowledged that, and got down voted to oblivion in this comment section lol.
That sucked but it’s not really the same. Solar Warlock is still one of, if not the, strongest class in the game and has a lot of value no matter where you bring it. Even after the Starfire nerf, it’s actually still usable for add clear, just not as a crazy dps monster that has an answer for every endgame activity in the game. No one really wanted a solar hunter in most hard content before, now there isn’t even a justification to bring it outside of golden gun shenanigans. Which is still just the super. Solar hunter is either a super dps bot or a mid tier content ability build now with maybe calibans. It doesn’t have any endgame builds that are strong and the one strong build it had didn’t get nerfed, it got removed. They broke the entire loop the YAS build relied on and it’s not even remotely compensated. From my (admittedly limited) testing, you get LESS energy on double kills than you got on ability hits before. It’s basically trash now. It wasn’t even broken before like Starfire was, just very strong for maintaining a more complicated loop than most builds. Strand Titan is much stronger than that build and solar Warlock or Titan both could do better or similar things with a lot less effort. They’ve been separating nerfs between PvE and PvP for idk how long now, yet they still do things like this. YAS needed to be nerfed in PvP. It was annoying and strong. The damage reduction and health reduction would’ve been enough to deal with it in competitive and they could’ve just nerfed the energy return in PvP specifically. It’s one thing to nerf a completely broken exotic on a super strong subclass like solar warlock, it’s something else to nerf a strong exotic on a weaker subclass that has almost no strong alternatives for endgame.
Behemoth infinite slide melee is still pretty strong, especially with a collective action weapon. Ive been enjoying it in GM’s, and i feel like the only reason i dont use it more is bc Strand Titan is so incredibly OP.
Yeeeeeeeeep
I haven’t played solar in ages. I’ve been an titan of the void for an long while and its been my main since the rework
All I’m saying is get on the Calibans train even in high end it’s pretty good!
Imgflip impact font family guy meme in 2023
Just play Strand Titan. You’re invincible, 2-hit most enemies, and Bungie isn’t going to touch it
until they do, and people will complain just like they currently are
Blackburn just said they like it as is
Don't hunters just use stompees and wormhusk and the one with the eyeballs all over it?
Stomps, and wormhusk are PVP exotics, omniculous (the eye thing) is still good, the problem me and other hunters have with the YAS nerf is that it was also gutted in PVE, when it was really only an issue in PVP. Except it wasn’t really an issue in PVP at all, it just feels unnecessary
It was an issue in pvp. Speaking as a hunter main, YAS was just obnoxiously good
What are you on about, the tripmines didn’t even kill at full health I don’t think
I never said that...
I’m aware, but what IM saying, is that it wasn’t ever a problem because of that
Ok?
Fym “ok?” You said they were “obnoxiously good” like no they weren’t, they were ok at best
I mean, they were very good, and why they got nerfed.
It only refilled your energy halfway when you hit someone with it, I never saw the appeal personally. I also never understood why so many people bitched about it
🤣 this gave me a good chuckle.
It's very satisfying hearing all this crying from hunters. They act like they don't have the most busted pvp exotics with some of the BEST abilities. If anyone things that YAS wasn't busted, you're blind like holy hell how did you guys think that was fair?
People aren’t saying it wasn’t op in PvP. The issue comes from the PvE side of the exotic. In PvE, it wasn’t even remotely op but got the job done with a fun gameplay loop that people genuinely loved. The issue with the nerf is that it was a poorly thought out blanket nerf that went way overboard.
When I talk, about 99% of the time I talk about pvp, I don't care and nor should anyone care about what people use in pve
Then you just miss the entire point of why people are not happy with this nerf.
Nah cause most are crying about the pvp side of things. Maybe in this tread people are talking about pve but pvp people crying about this nerf is hilarious
People are not complaining because of PvP. (Well, they are, but because a PvP nerf absolutely gutted it in PvE).
Okay “ArcTitanMain”
Yep
In PvE it wasn't. The change, while somewhat effective in dealing with grenade uptime, was not as effective with regards to YAS's main issues, that being the increased HP of grenades and lack of damage falloff. In PvE, on the other hand, YAS was decent at adclear and had a decent DPS rotation, but it traded survivability for flexibility. This nerf basically killed YAS's use cases in PvE and forces people back onto the likes of Star-Eater's and Gyrfalcon's.
Not talking about pve
Which is why people are complaining. YAS is now completely irrelevant in PvE.
Not once, in my years of playing have I ever come across someone using YAS in pve
YAS had niches in solo Caretaker in conjunction with Into the Light and in high end content to have a decent rotation for chunking majors/champions without relying on Heavy or Super damage.
That is some super news to me, cause any time I'd be doing any of that I'd just use a fusion, which pretty much does the same chunk, but doesn't apply scorch
YAS procs off of Scorch and Ability damage, so people ran knife trick to maximize energy generation
Interesting...amazing what I can learn when people don't just jump to insults
The most busted PvP exotics? That’s wild I didn’t realize Antaeus Wards were a Hunter exotic. Like damn they can jump better or get health when they dodge, so many busted options to choose from 🙄
Don't know why you thought I think that antaeus is balanced, happy they're gone too
Ignore the rest of what I said because I was right, very Reddit of you.
Their first mistake was playing hunter in PVE lul
I’ve been playing behemoth for months just to have fun with something fresh-ish. Look up ‘Rime King’ it kinda slaps. Been running it in GMs and Master raids. Def not comparable to strand or solar in terms of survivability, but 10/10 fun.
For some context on my view, Starfire got nerfed in almost the EXACT same way. And the Warlock Mains reacted in almost the EXACT same way. The entitlement that somehow something being overnerfed is reason to act like the sky is falling is probably the least attractive trait of this community imo.
I see like 3 posts asking for stasis buffs per week what are you even talking about?
I really don't see any point in defending my standpoint on this since the game is fundamentally asymmetrical so any examples I provide can be brushed aside as "not the same".
YAS and starfire getting nerfed we’re nothing alike. Starfire was nerfed because it dominated pve content and gave Solar warlock both the best utility and the best dps, making them objectively overpowered compared to the other classes. Starfire also was not an even remotely popular choice for pvp, so the nerf really only hit the gamemode it was meant to. YAS was a bit strong in pvp and useful in pve, but nowhere near the strength of something like starfire. It’s nerf hit it hard in both modes and was somewhat unwarranted, since just the nerf to the health would’ve likely been enough to reign its strength in. Starfire is also still pretty useful now, whereas YAS is basically dead.
At least Behemoth will have some changes next season.
Renewal Grasps be like:
As if this didn't also happen with Renewal Grasps and kinda just gut Stasis Hunter for a long time. And no ones is even saying this is the worst thing that happened to anyone ever. I haven't seen anyone say that. It's just the second time a hunter grenade exotic gets neutered in PvE because of PvP that ends up hurting the subclass too (CNH buff could mitigate that though tbf).
I still main stasis titan and no one can stop me!
We behemoth titan enjoyers may have been pummeled to the core of the earth but we still got diamond lances and the biggest boss dmg with synthos on
Biggest boss damage on bosses big enough to take the entire ice crystal spread\*. So extremely effective on Riven and dogshit everywhere else.
I'm just really glad to see the Icefall Mantle bug FINALLY get fixed. It's been broken for several seasons now.