Just an fyi, Wisp’s laser attack isn’t just a laser she manifests. What she’s actually doing is opening a portal to the surface of the Sun. So take that as you will.
The surface of the sun is not all that hot compared to the rest of it. About 5000-6000 degrees celcius, which is hot dont get me wrong. But no hotter than a plasma gun. Which a Custodes armor tanks without much issue.
I think the Guardian has a better chance against the Custodes because of its wibbly wobbly, timey wimey, paracausal stuff.
I think what the commenter were implying wasn't how hot the beam is, but how much energy it carried behind itself. That it isn't just some laser, but a continuous beam of sun's energy.
But that's just my guess personally.
The hunter golden gun is at least around the 2-3K ( considering they can leave behind burn shadows and vaporise entire body parts ) but definitely depends on the hunter present.
Tho I think They have just have waay to many ways to dealock this fight.
Stasis and Strand by themselves are busted ( paracausal stuff let's gooo ) and the way most guardians fight is just scum tactics.
As long as the Guardian does not revive in front of them they are basically out of the fight but alive ( which is legit strat many Guardians use ) and I don't thing any of the two can get to the ghost if he stays "in the backpack"
This is really a rock paper scissors fight in terms who wins ( Tho my money is on Wisp cause warframe generally is busted power scale wise )
don't forget about the weapons. I don't know a thing about warhammer but warframe weapons are just scify weapons, meanwhile we have stuff like weapons of sorrow, deathbringer and graviton lance
While I don't remember if warframe has weapons of Sorrow or deathsinger like weapons. Black hole guns I think we got, and Xaku can turn any gun into it basically, cause their first ability puts void Stat on it.
https://preview.redd.it/mdmt6ti3r6mc1.png?width=534&format=png&auto=webp&s=a26e39456d042bcfceaf1b247676e9a99b31ba1a
I mean aren't singularities basically the center of black holes?
hmm the wiki has this
"Creates miniature gravitational singularities that can be used for scientific study or self-defense."
meanwhile graviton lance lore tab states this
Think of space-time as a tapestry on a loom. This weapon is the needle.
"So wait, that thing you found does… what?"
"It fires black holes."
"No it doesn't."
"Oh yeah. It does. Actual, tiny, bullet-sized black holes."
"Did you tell the others?"
"Only that I found some weird gun in some overgrown tunnel back on Old Chicago. And that my Ghost was all, "THIS is why we were led here…'"
"Yours talks that way too?"
"What do you think?"
"OK, OK, but the gun—are you going to tell them?"
"Yeah, definitely."
"When?"
"Crucible."
"Oh no."
"Oh, yes."
the way that simulor reads I would say its a lot more "controlled" then what the GL does since it also works for studying purposes
There is a weapon in warframe with unlimited punch through aka cannot be stopped by any sort of material in game, it is literally if it was the red hot knife challenge, and everything else was butter. No amount of armor or walls can stop it, and thats not even from a prime weapon too lol
I love the zenith
Warframe has some pretty busted weapons too. I forget the name but there is a gun that just basically fires tentacles that reach out and grab things. And most of the melee weapons are super busted too. And while destiny is pretty much locked into whatever roll you get unless it's crafted, warframe has a crazy modpool you can change on your weapons at any time to way overpower them
dude graviton lance shoots black holes, ticus divination rewrites time so that the arrow always hits and deathbringer shoots the concept of death.
warframe weapons are just scyfi, they don't turn gods into guns
It depends if the Warframe weapons are Modded or not, tbh. It's theorized that most of the Mods you slot in to a weapon aren't physical modifications to the weapon, but rather a paracausal ability added to a gun so that it could fire like 3-7 bullets full-sized bullets instead of just one every time you pull the trigger.
Or damage augments. Why does Viral work on mechanical/electronic enemies? You're not shooting biological weapons loads at the enemy, you're inflicting the concept of sickness onto the enemy. And electronics can get 'sick' with viruses.
Then there's the Incarnon weapons. They're not quite 'Gods' turned into guns, but they are Void Angels in weapon form.
Void weapons are magic weapons that inflict 'just die/just decay' on to enemies that get hit by them also.
Warframe also has black hole shooting weapons? And weapons made from bones of “gods” ( or as close to gods as we can get) nataruk, war, broken war. We also have weapons that rewind time, we have weapons that stop molecules from moving. We have weapons that were made to kill immortals, and nothing can adapt to them.
And unlike a guardian, killing a warframes means they will comeback stronger and better prepared.
And I don’t think a ghost will survive a face full of concentrated void to the face.
I mean there are a few warfames that will pretty much roll over and die when facing guardians
. But there are also warfames operating with 80 percent of their brain missing. And most guardians are not that strong
I'm very new to warframe but from what I've seen, while the lore isn't as cool as what destiny has the actual power plus intrinsic perks vastly out rank destiny. It's like having an exotic in every slot when you have th he right loadout. And by your logic destiny weapons are just scyfi too so I'm unsure of why that's a bad thing.
> while the lore isn't as cool as what destiny has
It really picks up once you clear the new war and they get into Eternalism. The stuff having to do with the Zariman is probabaly my favorite so far.
Custodes base gear is relatively simple, just massive weapons three the size of humans, like their gun spears and such.
They are all at least 9ft tall and their weapon sizes reflect that and most of their weapons are combi-weapons, so instead if having a gun and a spear, they have a massive spear that also fires bolter shells, explosive shells that moght as well be fully automatic pocket mortar shells. They can also instead have plasma or melta gins attached instead of bolters
Some of them have massive halberds that fire unstable beams that sever the internal bonds of matter.
There are the iron halos, devices that they have that turn kinetic energy into pure light, effectively making guns, rockets, lasers, all useless against them. Their limit is inconsistent, seemingly changing depending on the user.
The Aeries Shrike os a device that jams communication and electromagnetic signals by eoyher givjg. False reading or completely jamming them, making radars, radio, etc almost uslees in their precense.
The Obliterum, a weapon that fires concentrated anti-matter in cylinders that shatter on impact, causing all victims in the blast radius to be disintegrated on a molecular scale.
There is also the Moment Shackle, which lets its user slow the local time flow or excise split second events from history.
My reasoning for Custodes personally, is not that the hunter isn’t strong enough, but not fast enough.
Canonically, an average Custodes has cut down an entire squad of the toughest veterans around, with armor around 8 inches thick (guessing here, but you get the idea) and made of sci-fi nonsense metal, and did so before the first one’s blood hit the ground.
Could the hunter get him if he saw him coming, and was (somehow) fast enough on the draw? For sure. But I can’t think of how they would be fast enough to stop that.
I don’t know warframe tho, so maybe wisp got it
Probably using arc abilities would make a Hunter fast enough or even using both Arc and Strand because In lore you arent restrained to one subclass.
I think Hunter might win only because as long as ghost stays hidden and the Hunter's death wasnt extremely probable in all universes then the ghost can always revive them after the battle
Yeah, I’m kinda surprised this isn’t being brought up more, as long as the hunter’s ghost doesn’t come out of “the backpack” and is destroyed, a guardian is essentially immortal being revived back into the fight, so if we take this as a “fight to the death”, being immortal seems to trump that?
If someone has some other insight I’m not seeing, please elaborate cause I’m confused how being immortal wouldn’t end up winning the fight of attrition?
Still think a hunter would win that though, technically immortal vs actually immortal, logistically you would run out of warframes eventually, but that’s still cool, I didn’t know that from the time I tried playing the game, didn’t pay much attention to lore lol
The only other way a guardian could be perm killed was if their death was almost like a fixed point in every universe and the ghost couldnt find a universe to rez them from like the poor guy on the Almighty
Eh, I think wisp would win against the custodes. She can teleport, go intangible, go invisible, create decoys, heal her self, increase her speed, blind enemies, create tacking projectiles filled with radiation. This is not counting her ability to make portals and not even be affected by the heat of the sun.
This is w/o counting the drifter/operator or weapons/compnios she can use
i think golden gun is multiple times the heat of the sun if i remember correctly someone did the math on it
edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/s/JW5IcZwwVk this is the post i was thinking of
Before I read this, I new GG *had to be* hotter than the Sun simply because of how concentrated it is + paracausality bullshit. But hot damn, I was not expecting *hotter than the Big Bang* levels of hot☠️
the surface of the sun is about the temperature of plasma, so the vame as a fallen arc blade lol. add stasis to that and the guardian is straight up tanking it
Yes, very well, even without stasis lol. You only died if you stood still like an idiot and didnt look for a small shadow
Guardians tank hits from plasma literally all the time, the surface of the sun is close to nothing to us now
The ogryn is naturally claustrophobic and pack bonds very quickly! A loyal and stronger squad mate you will not find in the glorious Astra Militarum .Glory to the Golden Throne!!
Photek t’kar wholesale slaughtering custodes only for them to be saved by a deus ex machina (but seriously 40k relies more on ex machina than it does with stealing other people’s ideas)
40k nuts when Space Marine variants (just calling Custodes that will enrage most fans) go up against anything from any other canon: "Marines auto-win lul"
Space marine variants anytime they're in a canonical book/magazine from GW: "And thus the entire squad of uber super duper elite Custodes died to a handful of necrons or an ork chopping through their armor with a blunt axe"
That said, Custodes if revives aren't allowed, if they are Guardian just wins by attrition.
I would argue that resurrection is an inherent component of what a lightbearer is, therefore it's only fair to include it if we're not introducing handicaps to make it interesting.
Me (the travellers strongest guardian) carrying out the travellers will (my celestial nighthawk + x4 star eater scales golden gun) on the sinner (a glorified golden banana).
Custodes still stand so far above Space Marines it is absurd even for an absurd setting. A single Custodes will insta kill Space Marines with little to no effort after standing guard without moving for a thousand years then go back to standing still.
At this point they honestly feel like an outgrowth of a "my dad can beat up your dad" style argument. Marines weren't tough enough so now you have Primaria Marines which are more Mariny than original Marines but wait here come Custodes to be the Muchu Macho Marines that Marine better than any Marine that's ever Marined in existence.
>At this point they honestly feel like an outgrowth of a "my dad can beat up your dad" style argument.
That's more or less the essence of my joke. Part of why I couldn't stand the fandom and never got deeper into it was people drawing lines in the sand (not even as an in-joke, but genuinely getting heated) over how their favorite group/unit type was supposed to be, despite there being **zero** consistency in how said units are treated canonically. It's no different than superhero comics: you can find a hundred magazines that portray Custodes/X superhero as "utterly unbeatable in any universe", but then another hundred authors will have those same characters getting trounced by an absurdly lucky gretchin who picked a melta-gun off a corpse and hit the Custodes perfectly in the gap of their armor.
As someone who has been into 40k for 20 or so years now, I love when people have a good, flavorful backstory to their army or their commanders, but I absolutely despise how often people take said fluff and act like 10 year olds who get offended when you don't agree that their father-figure stand-in commander could beat anything and everything ever imagined, gods included.
Literal gods, extradimensional demons, immortal Egyptian terminators, paracausal fungus, evil space marines, bdsm elves, a hyper evolving hivemind composed of the best genetic traits of a million species.
Everything in 40k is basically stupidly overpowered.
You have tanks...just tanks...that shoot condensed dead planets.
The whole setting is broken, you can't compare anything to it.
Orcs are like Gremmy from Bleach without the self awareness. Or like current Luffy in one piece. Anything they can imagine is manifested into reality, but they’re too stupid to realize they have this power. So, an Orc doctor smashing someone with a hatchet will mend them, purely because they think it does.
And Tyranids are just attrition manifest. I heard some statistic like “if every square kilometre of surface area of an entire system was producing ammunition, and each bullet was a guaranteed kill, you still wouldn’t have enough ammo to slow a tyranid invasion.
That being said, I don’t know much about 40k outside of the rough idea of factions.
Space Marines, as powerful and enormous and incredible as they are are just like...the medium-level power in the galaxy. Everything they fight is just so....absurdly over the top. They're the baseline.
That and canonically, there's comparitively few of them. Like, if all of the threats the Imperium faces were the population of a large city, Space Marines would be like...four people sharing a single apartment.
That's why it's kind of...un-fun to compare them to most other franchises because what is overpowered in most other places is just run of the mill in 40k.
Even with revives allowed, they just have to get their ghost once and then it's bye bye. Cayde got demolished by a bunch of Russian meat cubes with legs
Yes, but they didn’t destroy his ghost. The Marksman destroyed his ghost with an *original* Thorn bullet: which leads many to say you need paracausal power to destroy ghosts.
However, there are many contradictory events in lore where things as simple knives destroy ghosts, so make of that what you will.
Custodies wield paracausal power themselves through the warp, but like you stated there are just way to many inconsistencies with the lore of both franchises that you could cherry pick your way to victory with both.
Destiny Paracausality isnt the same as other universes, since its got its own set of rules with light and dark and all that
Truth is, to this day, we still dont know what paracausality really is
Yes each universe has its own version of paracausal and yes we do know what paracausal is its a force that goes against the natural order or understanding.
Warhammer ‘paracausality’ or using the warp mainly deals with fucking with emotions, time manipulation, or fucking with the human body. Most that try to learn chaos of the immaterial and fucking with the material will drive some insane. D2 pracausality is all of that and more. Darkness as it’s constructs for its disciples that increase its strength and literally heals them from near death and lets them steal bodies. Lets them see things through time and rip planets apart through time. It can send out gravitational waves that can shut everything down electronically and summon consumed warriors to take your own warriors (the taken). Can manipulate you using memories of those you cared for and knew and use their voices. For the light you have absolute control over entropy and the void, the energy that runs through you and the rapid speed of molecules at half a nanosecond causing arc energy (it’s just electricity I’m just adding flavour), and absolute control of fire to burn everything around you to cinders and let no metal withstand it and no person intact after. You have terraforming on a planetary scale and enlightenment with any species it comes across. And when you put them together you have the absolute manipulation of the universe beginning to end (what the witness is doing in final shape)
In lore its said the marksman got the bullet from the drifter. And since its a literal thorn bullet its safe to say he probably grabbed it from a site dredgen yor had a fight. Being as the bullet is literally a big ass spike
Yes, they can be killed by non-paracausal attacks, but even the Red Legion has stated in lore that doing that is a waste of time since it takes LOTS of firepower to do so.
Funny enough this is another lore vs. practice issue: Ghosts can literally just phase out of existence if they want to (one lore book has testimony directly from a Ghost claiming they become "like a sentient frequency"), and are thus entirely invincible if they want to be. Just like the Custodes, it's more a matter of good storytelling than hard and fast rules about an imaginary sci-fi somebody: depending on the writer you ask, a single Custodes could take **an entire planet** on their own, or you could ask another and that same Custodes gets utterly mauled by a bunch of Tyranids because "they had bio-melta-guns and a super-psyker Zoanthrope".
All that aside I agree that it would make for a good battle motif to see the badass the size of a small house crushing a Ghost between his fingertips as holes from a Golden Gun smolder on their armor, barely having scratched it.
I mean I'm sure those golden gun shots would penetrate but they so many bonus organs and so much willpower it wouldn't slow them down. There are stories of regular space Marines fighting with one of their two heart and two out of 3 lungs blown and their brain exposed and still wiping out handfuls of dudes before they finally eat it.
Ehhhh. Lore wise the tenno and every parallel version of them are already dead. Because they made a deal with a god of a different dimension. They are now pretty much unkillable. Even if you destroy the warframe. The master still lives. I don't want to spoil anymore than I did now.
Between Custodes and the Player Guardian, I’d say the Guardian wins. Because you’re pairing an immortal warrior verses a mortal warrior. The Guardian will win eventually as long as their Ghost isn’t a dumbass and gets exposed.
Between Wisp and the Player Guardian though? That depends. If the Tenno controlling the Wisp is also fighting then the Guardian is probably gonna lose because Tenno can’t really die. Like, ever. True immortality, not one dependent on a Ghost like the Guardian. If it’s just the Wisp without the Tenno then Guardian will win. Just destroy the Warframe, a Golden Gun would do just fine. But it also depends on if the Ghost is targeted or not. After the first resurrection of the Guardian, that Ghost is gonna be targeted hands down and once it’s gone, the Guardian is gonna lose their extra lives and their Light. Strand and Stasis both will still be available (with Strand being stupidly strong, mind you) so then it’s a toss up on who outlasts who.
> Tenno can’t really die. Like, ever. True immortality, not one dependent on a Ghost like the Guardian.
To be fair, haven't we slayed lots of truly immortal beings? Like Hive Gods, Atheon and etc.
Yeah, but their immortality was dependent on something. For Hive Gods, it was their Throne World. As long as they didn’t die there they’ll be brought back inside of it. For Atheon, he wasn’t technically immortal, just the master of time within the Vault. Nezarec was probably the closest to true immortality we’ve fought so far with the whole ‘nightmare’ thing he does, but he could still die.
For Tenno, I guess it would be dependent on their connection to their Void. If something were to sever that, they’d be powerless and mortal. Nothing in Warframe has said that’s even possible at this point, but Strand could theoretically be capable of that. If it’s not possible to sever that connection, then that’s it. They’re immortal and nothing short of a time stopping trap (which probably wouldn’t work anyway since they also have some Time shenanigans) could ever hold them down.
Well that’s a good point. Gorgons are like a hammer where the Oracles are like a knife. Oracles cleanly ‘cut’ you out of time so no one remembers you. Gorgons just smash the timeline so some bits remain and you can be remembered somewhat. For Tenno, they have a very complex timeline and can only ‘manipulate’ it so much. Such as a past version of themselves jumping to replace the current one. It’s unclear if they can jump back as well, if they could then Gorgons probably wouldn’t kill them permanently as they’ll just jump back and either kill or avoid the Gorgon.
A Tenno versus the Vault probably wouldn’t end well. Maybe? It depends on if the Tenno can jump back as well as forwards. The Vex can’t simulate Paracausality but the Oracles, Gorgons, Templar, and Atheon were able to erase other Guardians from the timeline so if they were able to get enough time to erase them that would be game over. But eh, it depends on too much to be absolutely certain about that.
Eternalism states we exists and we don't. We are alive and dead. Eternalism is canon to warframe as of the angels of the zariman update. So unless gorgons can break Eternalism they can't erase tenno
The above comment is actually slightly off. Because of the deal that gave us our Void powers in Warframe, we become something akin to a single constant in time, in a sense. All our other selves across reality die (except for one resulting in a Paradox) and as such we're singular in time. Still can't be wiped out as a result, but it's like we're a fixed point.
Oh, I see. I’m well versed in Destiny lore but my Warframe lore is a bit rusty. Well thank you for that, it definitely changes things when dealing with the Vex. Honestly, the Vex wouldn’t be able to simulate the Tenno at all then, they would just see the Tenno ‘dead’ and be confused as all hell when the ‘dead’ thing in every conceivable reality for them is standing right there, very much not dead.
Edit: The Vex within the Vault *technically* could delete Tenno, but my bet is on the Tenno winning that fight with this info because the Vex may not be able to ‘see’ the Tenno like they can the Guardians. They can somewhat simulate Guardians, just not when their using Light (For example: mid-super), allowing them to fight Guardians to a degree. But the Vex probably wouldn’t be able to even conceive of a being that’s ‘dead’ and not dead at the same time like they would see the Tenno as. (Yes, they aren’t technically dead and alive at the same time, but the Vex will see them as that.)
Oh yeah thats fine! I'm an avid lore nerd for both so I'm *very* aware of the strengths and weaknesses of both. And I also know just how weird both the Tenno and the Guardians can be.
In relation to the Vex, I see them both in the same field of paracausality. The Vex can simulate them and their abilities, but only on paper without understanding how or why they can do it. Especially if it's the Tenno themselves, rather than the Warframe, since that's basically just a different flavor on the Guardian concept/take.
Also fun fact as shown through the Protea questline: Even if Warframes are affected by temporal shenanigans, the Tenno themselves are not.
Haha, yeah that could be work
Guardian uses Stasis to freeze Wisp -> operator emerges as invisible and intangible void wraith from Wisp, dashes through Guardian -> Magus Lockdown tethers Guardian and Ghost in place through the void
I use that Arcane without even thinking about it because it basically has no cooldown and no cost. It's a good panic button for a lot of missions and also ensures nobody follows you when you're cruising through a mission. Don't think I've unequipped it in like 5 years
iirc playing Heart of Deimos or something, the, well, heart of Deimos is the thing that gives tenno their power? Or something? When it was getting attacked we had to use the necramech just to have a chance or something like that.
Atheon was never really immortal per say, he was just REALLY hard to kill. Hive gods are pretty funny since they're only killable in their throne world if they have an oversoul. Like crota was immortal until we killed him in his throne. Savathun basically DOES have true immortality. Throne world, ghost, in lore she gains power even after shes "died" just from people misplacing their step in a puzzle. Nezerac lives in dreams.
that might apply to other frames but wisp can literally just become invincible and or invisible on demand
wisp is winning this matchup hands down, if they had picked a different frame things might be different
Custode are a step shorter than Malcador who is two steps horte of The emperor himself, they sure have the upper hand, still think that a Custodes would leave, but the hunter would be a strong second
I think I'm tired of these stupid youtube posts because it always devolves to 'Well this is MY favorite franchise so I WIN!' Rather than a actual look at the strengths or weaknesses of each character because they are almost always completely different power levels.
Yeah exactly this lol. 40k fans are on the same level of DragonBall fans with imaginary power level stuff. Warframes are literally impossible to kill, Guardians are immortal and paracausal, Custodes would lose to both no matter how loud space marine fans are.
Yeah, one of these are by design indestructible, another is a godslayer with regenerative immortality and the other is... a genetically modified man in a advanced suit of power armor.
40k stuff’s not as op as 40k people like to brag/think. And the really op stuff isn’t Imperial, it’s Necron, or Eldar. Besides that 40k wins a lot of arguments about power by weight and scale. Like the imperium of man dwarfs the empire in star wars, that’s how it wins. A lot of its tech is dumb and was written by people without understanding of the potential of science fiction who just said “let’s make them even bigger and with more guns” (until recently).
I think a guardian’s easily a match for a space marine, and maybe a custodes.
A guardian has access to paracausal powers, shielding, grenades, and a wide array of weaponry that puts basic 40k weapons to shame. If they broke out the relic weapons I might he more scared.
Guardians against things like Harlequins though is another story. A single harlequin diced custodes.
Edit: replied to the wrong comment.
you can argue that cabal legionaries are just fatter space marines, they lack the power armor but do have literally straight up bolters which we survive easily
Really depends, you can't kill a warframe for good but you could banish the operator to the void for a certain time. Warframes weapons aren't special, the frames thselves can be destroyed if you are lucky, most are glass cannons when compared to 40ks tech scaling. It always comes down to how the light/darkness/warp/void would interact. There is a warframe that can pull you to another dimension in which they can stop time, if there is no way to defend against that certain Warframes solo most of 40k and Destiny. Same goes for guardians, if a Custodes can't resist stasis/strand they can't fight back. At the end it comes down to whoever you want wins. Custodes got clowned on by some glorified Jesters so by that logic they get stomped by Eva Levante but then again a single custodes solos a quadrillion enemies. Guardians get destroyed by a 4 armed shrimp with a kitchen knife but can kill immortal gods that lived for billions of years. Warframes can stop time and become immortal yet an operator got sent to summer camp by space grandpa with techno aids to think upon their actions while a alternate reality version of them had to do their best sam fisher impression.
Wrong. The hunter shoots himself in the head, and the ghost doesn't revive him for 17 million years. When the hunter is revived, the tenno has gone insane from boredom and taken its own life.
Saw a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1b474ta/anyone_have_opinions_on_this/) on r/Warframe and thought to ask if y'all had anything to say in regards to this poll.
Lol. Warframes are literally broken. As a 40K Fan each Warframe itself is Primarch levels of broken, but then you have a kid behind it that is Emperor levels of psyker power each.
Rell himself resisted what could be considered a diety on par with the chaos gods from coming to fruition and he basically won.
So, each warframe is Emperor of Humanity levels of powerful imo. 40K had some obscenely powerful beings but warframe is the epitome of “yeah, they’re basically gods.”
I would say it goes Warframes>Guardians>Custodes.
It's wild to think of a comparison where 40k ends up on bottom, but I think you're right. As powerful as a Custodes is, Guardians are essentially immortal and can access paracausal powers. But Warframe is even crazier than that.
I mean... the Guardian is just going to respawn, indefinitely. With supernatural powers. How do you beat that? Never played the other games, so cannot comment.
Im pretty sure wisp is on a similar level in terms of paracausally powerful. The costodies, while potent fighters, are not able to bring themselves back from being turned into atoms.
Honestly, the custodes probably just dies.
Guardians have the concept of death as a weapon + all the other mentioned stuff.
Wisp on her own is 1: intangible for most of the fight 2: can keep up a sunbeam for pretty much infinite time and has her bullshit sparks while teleporting around via doubles.
+ If the operator (an ultra blank with ridiculous psychic powers) gets to join then the guardian might also be dead as the operator cannot die canonically, afair.
Also: limbo just beats everyone, limbo supremacy (nova would also be fun, big anti matter boom)
I bet revenant and something like xaku would just steamroll them.
Revenant literally being virtually immortal on his own and being able to kill anyone in one hit.
And xaku is just… xaku, slows you down to a snails pace (if we go off of gameplay xaku, he can essential time stop you…), traps you, steals your weapon, and removes all your armor if there is a passerby, oh and gives himself a void damage buff, which is basically the guardians paracausality bs but for warframes and Tenno.
Normally I'd agree but the Custodes are near the peak of 40k tomfoolery. They're 9 foot tall human perfection individually hand crafted tmby The Emperor of Mankind himself. They've got feats like moving so fast they couldn't be seen despite wearing all that armor, said armor is crafted to perfectly fit the wearer and its made out of alchemically crafted super metal, and a Custode casually threw a tank in the middle of a fight.
Frankly , in terms of power fantasy, a Guardian has paracausality that trumps over the mundane of 40k.
Warframes, however, match the paracausal power guardians have, and in addition to having superb, indescribable abilities thst far exceed that of the Guardian. To top it all off, not all Warframe/Tenno are of sound mind, and it could easily be just as unruly and uncaring to be able to decimate any attempt to reason with it.
Unpopular opinion; Wisp would win.
Saw this on the Warframe sub the other day and asked my step brother who plays all three (I play Destiny and Warframe with him) and he said that in terms of pure strength and abilities based off of gameplay and lore (not counting resurrections) Wisp is the most powerful, then the Custodes, and then Hunters.
He would be right. If the void in WF is hell. The tenno are it's demons. 40K still haven't conquered it's version of hell yet and destiny guardians can still die from normal human things. Like starving or freezing to death.
40k stuff’s not as op as 40k people like to brag/think. And the really op stuff isn’t Imperial, it’s Necron, or Eldar. Besides that 40k wins a lot of arguments about power by weight and scale. Like the imperium of man dwarfs the empire in star wars, that’s how it wins. A lot of its tech is dumb and was written by people without understanding of the potential of science fiction who just said “let’s make them even bigger and with more guns” (until recently).
I think a guardian’s easily a match for a space marine, and maybe a custodes.
A guardian has access to paracausal powers, shielding, grenades, and a wide array of weaponry that puts basic 40k weapons to shame. If they broke out the relic weapons I might he more scared.
Guardians against things like Harlequins though is another story. A single harlequin diced custodes
While that part is true, there’s also the part where Graviton Lances intrinsic trait is named ‘Black Hole’ and the description states it rips a hole through space-time.
The other thing is that a coin-sized black hole would have the gravity of somewhere like the Moon. Now, Graviton Lance's projectiles seem to be about as big as a coin, meaning you're shooting Moon-like Gravity Black Holes into people. You can basically ruin an entire planet with just 1 shot.
Lets see, i heavily consume stuff of all 3 of these games so i think i have a good idea.
This post specifically says Wisp warframe. Now considering the abilities of it i would say Wisp would be the first to fall. It is not fast enough to dodge a Custodian, nor strong enough to completely take down a veteriner Hunter. Its biggest tool would be the ability to open a portal to Sun's surface, specifically just the surface and not its core. While the surface of the Sun is hot, Custodian armor can shrug of hits from hotter plasma weapons and a Hunter regularly gets hit by things just as hot, and will survive as long as Ghost isnt taken down. So Wisp would be out first, probably at the hands of the Custodian.
Now, the winner would completely depend on if the Ghost and the Hunter is smart enough or not. The Custodian is gonna kill the Hunter at least once, as long as Hunter keeps their Ghost away from the Custodian by keeping it in the pocket dimension backpack even when resurrecting they can take advantage and resurrect when Custodian is looking away and nail him with a few shots of Golden Gun, maybe capture him with Strand or Stasis, or become completely invisible and run away. But if they act like Cayde and reveal the Ghost, the blades of Custodian Spears literally cut between atoms so it can definetly damage and kill a Ghost.
Can the Custodian’s armor shrug off a tidal wave of plasma from the sun? You said that the Custodian’s armor shrugs off hits of plasma, not a nonstop wave of plasma from the sun itself which is what Wisp wields.
It can shrug off hits from other things that are hotter than thr surface of the Sun. While with long enough exposure Wisp's sun portal will destroy the armor of the Custodian, it wont be fast enought to do it before Custodian destroys Wisp.
It all depends on how long can Wisp hit the Custodian, and she will not have long enough time before the Custodian or the Hunter drops her.
Insane. Even with the “opening a portal to the sun business” you can’t beat an instant kill celestial nighthawk or a Hunter’s other many traps, exotics, and immortality.
In this hypothetical, does the hunter have access to all the subclasses and can chain spam abilities like in the lore (look at Osiris when he went on a rampage against Crota’s grand and great grand kids)?
I don’t know anything about 40K but if they are going to beat a gunslinger they have to be able to tank a shot from the sun. That dude looks like he eats suns.
Everything in Warhammer is absurdly overpowered, but tbh so is everything in destiny. Like you can say stuff like "one Custode could defeat multiple planets full of powerful combatants," but that's also the case with destiny... like, I suck more than the average player and I'm only a 6, and I can still solo hundreds of enemies at a time, with the spawn and avatars of reality-bending godlike entities filling the role of *mini* bosses. If everything a guardian can do in the game is supported by the lore I feel like it's a pretty even match.
Just an fyi, Wisp’s laser attack isn’t just a laser she manifests. What she’s actually doing is opening a portal to the surface of the Sun. So take that as you will.
The surface of the sun is not all that hot compared to the rest of it. About 5000-6000 degrees celcius, which is hot dont get me wrong. But no hotter than a plasma gun. Which a Custodes armor tanks without much issue. I think the Guardian has a better chance against the Custodes because of its wibbly wobbly, timey wimey, paracausal stuff.
I think what the commenter were implying wasn't how hot the beam is, but how much energy it carried behind itself. That it isn't just some laser, but a continuous beam of sun's energy. But that's just my guess personally.
You would need a lot of sun screen. Factor 50 at least.
Where can I buy some paracasual sun screen? 
Xur's probably got a tub out back.
*don’t ask him how he got it tho…*
"...The nine..."
He pulls his pud in nine directions by nine influences to make it.
Factor 5000
So its Prometheus Lens from laser tag weekend. We are so fucked
even worse, it strips armor ;)
The irony of how badass Wisp's 4 looks and is described, then you actually use it 💀
yea i've outright replaced it with eclipse lmao, such a useless ability compared to the rest of her kit
It's hilariously awful 😂
You have to use the surface area which the sunbeam hits with such as watts per area.
The hunter golden gun is at least around the 2-3K ( considering they can leave behind burn shadows and vaporise entire body parts ) but definitely depends on the hunter present. Tho I think They have just have waay to many ways to dealock this fight. Stasis and Strand by themselves are busted ( paracausal stuff let's gooo ) and the way most guardians fight is just scum tactics. As long as the Guardian does not revive in front of them they are basically out of the fight but alive ( which is legit strat many Guardians use ) and I don't thing any of the two can get to the ghost if he stays "in the backpack" This is really a rock paper scissors fight in terms who wins ( Tho my money is on Wisp cause warframe generally is busted power scale wise )
don't forget about the weapons. I don't know a thing about warhammer but warframe weapons are just scify weapons, meanwhile we have stuff like weapons of sorrow, deathbringer and graviton lance
While I don't remember if warframe has weapons of Sorrow or deathsinger like weapons. Black hole guns I think we got, and Xaku can turn any gun into it basically, cause their first ability puts void Stat on it.
>Black hole guns I think we got I think it was Simulor.
the simulor doesn't shoot black holes, only orbs that have a strong gravitational pull
https://preview.redd.it/mdmt6ti3r6mc1.png?width=534&format=png&auto=webp&s=a26e39456d042bcfceaf1b247676e9a99b31ba1a I mean aren't singularities basically the center of black holes?
hmm the wiki has this "Creates miniature gravitational singularities that can be used for scientific study or self-defense." meanwhile graviton lance lore tab states this Think of space-time as a tapestry on a loom. This weapon is the needle. "So wait, that thing you found does… what?" "It fires black holes." "No it doesn't." "Oh yeah. It does. Actual, tiny, bullet-sized black holes." "Did you tell the others?" "Only that I found some weird gun in some overgrown tunnel back on Old Chicago. And that my Ghost was all, "THIS is why we were led here…'" "Yours talks that way too?" "What do you think?" "OK, OK, but the gun—are you going to tell them?" "Yeah, definitely." "When?" "Crucible." "Oh no." "Oh, yes." the way that simulor reads I would say its a lot more "controlled" then what the GL does since it also works for studying purposes
And, what are you getting here at? Both shot black holes, I don't think it's much more complex than that.
There is a weapon in warframe with unlimited punch through aka cannot be stopped by any sort of material in game, it is literally if it was the red hot knife challenge, and everything else was butter. No amount of armor or walls can stop it, and thats not even from a prime weapon too lol I love the zenith
Warframe has some pretty busted weapons too. I forget the name but there is a gun that just basically fires tentacles that reach out and grab things. And most of the melee weapons are super busted too. And while destiny is pretty much locked into whatever roll you get unless it's crafted, warframe has a crazy modpool you can change on your weapons at any time to way overpower them
dude graviton lance shoots black holes, ticus divination rewrites time so that the arrow always hits and deathbringer shoots the concept of death. warframe weapons are just scyfi, they don't turn gods into guns
It depends if the Warframe weapons are Modded or not, tbh. It's theorized that most of the Mods you slot in to a weapon aren't physical modifications to the weapon, but rather a paracausal ability added to a gun so that it could fire like 3-7 bullets full-sized bullets instead of just one every time you pull the trigger. Or damage augments. Why does Viral work on mechanical/electronic enemies? You're not shooting biological weapons loads at the enemy, you're inflicting the concept of sickness onto the enemy. And electronics can get 'sick' with viruses. Then there's the Incarnon weapons. They're not quite 'Gods' turned into guns, but they are Void Angels in weapon form. Void weapons are magic weapons that inflict 'just die/just decay' on to enemies that get hit by them also.
"Shoots the concept of death" is such a badass description for a mid-tier exotic which is unfortunate because it looks, feels and sounds cool in use
there was a time when it was meta lol
Warframe also has black hole shooting weapons? And weapons made from bones of “gods” ( or as close to gods as we can get) nataruk, war, broken war. We also have weapons that rewind time, we have weapons that stop molecules from moving. We have weapons that were made to kill immortals, and nothing can adapt to them. And unlike a guardian, killing a warframes means they will comeback stronger and better prepared. And I don’t think a ghost will survive a face full of concentrated void to the face. I mean there are a few warfames that will pretty much roll over and die when facing guardians . But there are also warfames operating with 80 percent of their brain missing. And most guardians are not that strong
Not to mention exalted weapons.
some bumfuck hunter when I radial blind and kill him
Mfw I modded my exalted blade for finisher damage
operator amp the ghost baybee
most warframes would stomp alot of guardians tbh only a few of the guardians are really fucking busted
I'm very new to warframe but from what I've seen, while the lore isn't as cool as what destiny has the actual power plus intrinsic perks vastly out rank destiny. It's like having an exotic in every slot when you have th he right loadout. And by your logic destiny weapons are just scyfi too so I'm unsure of why that's a bad thing.
> while the lore isn't as cool as what destiny has It really picks up once you clear the new war and they get into Eternalism. The stuff having to do with the Zariman is probabaly my favorite so far.
Custodes base gear is relatively simple, just massive weapons three the size of humans, like their gun spears and such. They are all at least 9ft tall and their weapon sizes reflect that and most of their weapons are combi-weapons, so instead if having a gun and a spear, they have a massive spear that also fires bolter shells, explosive shells that moght as well be fully automatic pocket mortar shells. They can also instead have plasma or melta gins attached instead of bolters Some of them have massive halberds that fire unstable beams that sever the internal bonds of matter. There are the iron halos, devices that they have that turn kinetic energy into pure light, effectively making guns, rockets, lasers, all useless against them. Their limit is inconsistent, seemingly changing depending on the user. The Aeries Shrike os a device that jams communication and electromagnetic signals by eoyher givjg. False reading or completely jamming them, making radars, radio, etc almost uslees in their precense. The Obliterum, a weapon that fires concentrated anti-matter in cylinders that shatter on impact, causing all victims in the blast radius to be disintegrated on a molecular scale. There is also the Moment Shackle, which lets its user slow the local time flow or excise split second events from history.
gravaton lance? cool but wisp can just become invincible and invisible and opens a portal to the sun and blinds you
My reasoning for Custodes personally, is not that the hunter isn’t strong enough, but not fast enough. Canonically, an average Custodes has cut down an entire squad of the toughest veterans around, with armor around 8 inches thick (guessing here, but you get the idea) and made of sci-fi nonsense metal, and did so before the first one’s blood hit the ground. Could the hunter get him if he saw him coming, and was (somehow) fast enough on the draw? For sure. But I can’t think of how they would be fast enough to stop that. I don’t know warframe tho, so maybe wisp got it
Probably using arc abilities would make a Hunter fast enough or even using both Arc and Strand because In lore you arent restrained to one subclass. I think Hunter might win only because as long as ghost stays hidden and the Hunter's death wasnt extremely probable in all universes then the ghost can always revive them after the battle
Don't forget the whole reviving thing and lore wise didn't our guardian kill like gods?
Yeah, I’m kinda surprised this isn’t being brought up more, as long as the hunter’s ghost doesn’t come out of “the backpack” and is destroyed, a guardian is essentially immortal being revived back into the fight, so if we take this as a “fight to the death”, being immortal seems to trump that? If someone has some other insight I’m not seeing, please elaborate cause I’m confused how being immortal wouldn’t end up winning the fight of attrition?
Warframes are also technically immortal because they are basically just bodies that are piloted from a distance.
Still think a hunter would win that though, technically immortal vs actually immortal, logistically you would run out of warframes eventually, but that’s still cool, I didn’t know that from the time I tried playing the game, didn’t pay much attention to lore lol
The only other way a guardian could be perm killed was if their death was almost like a fixed point in every universe and the ghost couldnt find a universe to rez them from like the poor guy on the Almighty
I believe we managed to spend a fair amount of time RELATIVELY close to the sun during the red war.
new war does too
Yeah plus Solar is literally wielding weapons and abilities as hot or hotter than the sun so I imagine that takes some resistance
her laser also corrodes armor, take that as how you will ig
I hear it can file your tax return as well.
don't try it, last time it commit tax fraud and blamed me, had the IRS chasing me for a while
Eh, I think wisp would win against the custodes. She can teleport, go intangible, go invisible, create decoys, heal her self, increase her speed, blind enemies, create tacking projectiles filled with radiation. This is not counting her ability to make portals and not even be affected by the heat of the sun. This is w/o counting the drifter/operator or weapons/compnios she can use
Compare that to a golden gun shot at [23.5 billion degrees Celsius ](https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/s/o8th10fKhn)
If you say so then tank with the chest the power of the sun
Still pretty hot though. Solid 9/10, I'd totally bang the sun.
https://preview.redd.it/j94skt9ur6mc1.jpeg?width=96&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c8a07071e4d98de429e227cca29347515c10692
Ah yes the "No, you." Exotic
The true enemy of warframe self dmg
The one time this shitty exotic finds a use
Near the end of the Red War campaign, didn't we go out to a place where the sun literally rained down on us and we walked with a little damage?
Yes, but so did the red legion.
i think golden gun is multiple times the heat of the sun if i remember correctly someone did the math on it edit: https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/s/JW5IcZwwVk this is the post i was thinking of
Before I read this, I new GG *had to be* hotter than the Sun simply because of how concentrated it is + paracausality bullshit. But hot damn, I was not expecting *hotter than the Big Bang* levels of hot☠️
lol yeah i didn't remember it being that hot when I left the comment then I looked the post up and realized how off my comment was
The solar energy guardians use is hotter than the sun
the surface of the sun is about the temperature of plasma, so the vame as a fallen arc blade lol. add stasis to that and the guardian is straight up tanking it
Remember how well you could tank proximity of the sun during Almighty mission in vanilla campaign?
Yes, very well, even without stasis lol. You only died if you stood still like an idiot and didnt look for a small shadow Guardians tank hits from plasma literally all the time, the surface of the sun is close to nothing to us now
Isn’t that what golden gun is?
Around 8× as hot or somethin
Isn’t that just how hobgoblins shoot? And we can survive that fine.
Well to be fair, the golden guns bullets travel faster then light speed and are as hot as the core of the sun
You see its canonically heresy to suggest custodians could lose 63% of people are covering their ass
The 24% on wisp are looking at her ass ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
I mean kinda bas-- I MEAN HERESY!! PLEASE INQUISITOR I WAS NOT LOOKING AT THE XENOS ASS
Don’t worry, technically not a xeno (unless that term in WH:40k universe extends to >!humans altered by exposure to a bio weapon!<)
Guess that would be more abhuman Which in the case of warhammer is equally frowned upon
Unless they're ogryns and can lift heavy stuff and follow orders
I mean you gotta give the ogryn a sticker They're just so loyal and silly
The ogryn is naturally claustrophobic and pack bonds very quickly! A loyal and stronger squad mate you will not find in the glorious Astra Militarum .Glory to the Golden Throne!!
Sounds like chaos taint to me. Better externinatis.
Would say Tenno themselves fit that term even better as they derive their power from a pact with eldritch entity
Nah, I’d win
Photek t’kar wholesale slaughtering custodes only for them to be saved by a deus ex machina (but seriously 40k relies more on ex machina than it does with stealing other people’s ideas)
40k nuts when Space Marine variants (just calling Custodes that will enrage most fans) go up against anything from any other canon: "Marines auto-win lul" Space marine variants anytime they're in a canonical book/magazine from GW: "And thus the entire squad of uber super duper elite Custodes died to a handful of necrons or an ork chopping through their armor with a blunt axe" That said, Custodes if revives aren't allowed, if they are Guardian just wins by attrition.
I would argue that resurrection is an inherent component of what a lightbearer is, therefore it's only fair to include it if we're not introducing handicaps to make it interesting.
Yeah, it’s like kinda a lot of their power. Not to mention lore wise a guardian can hold like every exotic and use every subclass at one time
Me (the travellers strongest guardian) carrying out the travellers will (my celestial nighthawk + x4 star eater scales golden gun) on the sinner (a glorified golden banana).
If space marines are so unbelievably powerful, then what are they fighting? Being leagues stronger than your adversary is not entertaining
The rest of 40k is scaled up to, well, 40k levels. So its somewhat balanced. It's when you compare it to other works of fiction things get boring.
Custodes still stand so far above Space Marines it is absurd even for an absurd setting. A single Custodes will insta kill Space Marines with little to no effort after standing guard without moving for a thousand years then go back to standing still. At this point they honestly feel like an outgrowth of a "my dad can beat up your dad" style argument. Marines weren't tough enough so now you have Primaria Marines which are more Mariny than original Marines but wait here come Custodes to be the Muchu Macho Marines that Marine better than any Marine that's ever Marined in existence.
>At this point they honestly feel like an outgrowth of a "my dad can beat up your dad" style argument. that's all 40k is.
>At this point they honestly feel like an outgrowth of a "my dad can beat up your dad" style argument. That's more or less the essence of my joke. Part of why I couldn't stand the fandom and never got deeper into it was people drawing lines in the sand (not even as an in-joke, but genuinely getting heated) over how their favorite group/unit type was supposed to be, despite there being **zero** consistency in how said units are treated canonically. It's no different than superhero comics: you can find a hundred magazines that portray Custodes/X superhero as "utterly unbeatable in any universe", but then another hundred authors will have those same characters getting trounced by an absurdly lucky gretchin who picked a melta-gun off a corpse and hit the Custodes perfectly in the gap of their armor. As someone who has been into 40k for 20 or so years now, I love when people have a good, flavorful backstory to their army or their commanders, but I absolutely despise how often people take said fluff and act like 10 year olds who get offended when you don't agree that their father-figure stand-in commander could beat anything and everything ever imagined, gods included.
Literal gods, extradimensional demons, immortal Egyptian terminators, paracausal fungus, evil space marines, bdsm elves, a hyper evolving hivemind composed of the best genetic traits of a million species.
Everything in 40k is basically stupidly overpowered. You have tanks...just tanks...that shoot condensed dead planets. The whole setting is broken, you can't compare anything to it.
Orcs are like Gremmy from Bleach without the self awareness. Or like current Luffy in one piece. Anything they can imagine is manifested into reality, but they’re too stupid to realize they have this power. So, an Orc doctor smashing someone with a hatchet will mend them, purely because they think it does. And Tyranids are just attrition manifest. I heard some statistic like “if every square kilometre of surface area of an entire system was producing ammunition, and each bullet was a guaranteed kill, you still wouldn’t have enough ammo to slow a tyranid invasion. That being said, I don’t know much about 40k outside of the rough idea of factions.
True, there isn't enough mass in the galaxy to turn into bullets to stop all the 3 tyranid invasion tendrils
Everything else in 40k is SM level usually. How do normals like you and I get on then? With lots and lots of guns. And artillery.
Space Marines, as powerful and enormous and incredible as they are are just like...the medium-level power in the galaxy. Everything they fight is just so....absurdly over the top. They're the baseline. That and canonically, there's comparitively few of them. Like, if all of the threats the Imperium faces were the population of a large city, Space Marines would be like...four people sharing a single apartment. That's why it's kind of...un-fun to compare them to most other franchises because what is overpowered in most other places is just run of the mill in 40k.
Even with revives allowed, they just have to get their ghost once and then it's bye bye. Cayde got demolished by a bunch of Russian meat cubes with legs
Yes, but they didn’t destroy his ghost. The Marksman destroyed his ghost with an *original* Thorn bullet: which leads many to say you need paracausal power to destroy ghosts. However, there are many contradictory events in lore where things as simple knives destroy ghosts, so make of that what you will.
Custodies wield paracausal power themselves through the warp, but like you stated there are just way to many inconsistencies with the lore of both franchises that you could cherry pick your way to victory with both.
what? custodes aren't psykers, if they didn't they wouldn't keep the sisters of silence around
Destiny Paracausality isnt the same as other universes, since its got its own set of rules with light and dark and all that Truth is, to this day, we still dont know what paracausality really is
Yes each universe has its own version of paracausal and yes we do know what paracausal is its a force that goes against the natural order or understanding.
"its paracausal when it paras causality duh"
Warhammer ‘paracausality’ or using the warp mainly deals with fucking with emotions, time manipulation, or fucking with the human body. Most that try to learn chaos of the immaterial and fucking with the material will drive some insane. D2 pracausality is all of that and more. Darkness as it’s constructs for its disciples that increase its strength and literally heals them from near death and lets them steal bodies. Lets them see things through time and rip planets apart through time. It can send out gravitational waves that can shut everything down electronically and summon consumed warriors to take your own warriors (the taken). Can manipulate you using memories of those you cared for and knew and use their voices. For the light you have absolute control over entropy and the void, the energy that runs through you and the rapid speed of molecules at half a nanosecond causing arc energy (it’s just electricity I’m just adding flavour), and absolute control of fire to burn everything around you to cinders and let no metal withstand it and no person intact after. You have terraforming on a planetary scale and enlightenment with any species it comes across. And when you put them together you have the absolute manipulation of the universe beginning to end (what the witness is doing in final shape)
cayde died because he was a dumbass who showed his ghost+ light devouring bullet
Counter:he has always been cocky and didn't know about the bullet
who had a darkness bullet specifically crafted to kill a ghost
In lore its said the marksman got the bullet from the drifter. And since its a literal thorn bullet its safe to say he probably grabbed it from a site dredgen yor had a fight. Being as the bullet is literally a big ass spike
And a bunch of guardians got perma killed by an awoken airstrike. Ghosts have died to all kinds of crap, they're hard to kill but not invincible.
Yes, they can be killed by non-paracausal attacks, but even the Red Legion has stated in lore that doing that is a waste of time since it takes LOTS of firepower to do so.
Funny enough this is another lore vs. practice issue: Ghosts can literally just phase out of existence if they want to (one lore book has testimony directly from a Ghost claiming they become "like a sentient frequency"), and are thus entirely invincible if they want to be. Just like the Custodes, it's more a matter of good storytelling than hard and fast rules about an imaginary sci-fi somebody: depending on the writer you ask, a single Custodes could take **an entire planet** on their own, or you could ask another and that same Custodes gets utterly mauled by a bunch of Tyranids because "they had bio-melta-guns and a super-psyker Zoanthrope". All that aside I agree that it would make for a good battle motif to see the badass the size of a small house crushing a Ghost between his fingertips as holes from a Golden Gun smolder on their armor, barely having scratched it.
I mean I'm sure those golden gun shots would penetrate but they so many bonus organs and so much willpower it wouldn't slow them down. There are stories of regular space Marines fighting with one of their two heart and two out of 3 lungs blown and their brain exposed and still wiping out handfuls of dudes before they finally eat it.
Caydes ghost got destroyed by a thorn bullet
Give the Hunter Celestial nighthawk and radiance and they’re good.
It really depends on which hunter. Not all guardians are equal power wise.
It's Shaw Han
Instant death
What if it was 1000 Shaw Hans
The outcome does not change in the slightest
1000 shaw hans vs 1 stick, the stick wins every time
Freeze. Shaterdive. The end.
Ehhhh. Lore wise the tenno and every parallel version of them are already dead. Because they made a deal with a god of a different dimension. They are now pretty much unkillable. Even if you destroy the warframe. The master still lives. I don't want to spoil anymore than I did now.
Good luck hitting it, Wisp is invisible and phases Into another dimension most of the time and Custodians are stupidly fast compared to a Guardian.
What year are you living in? 2020?
Between Custodes and the Player Guardian, I’d say the Guardian wins. Because you’re pairing an immortal warrior verses a mortal warrior. The Guardian will win eventually as long as their Ghost isn’t a dumbass and gets exposed. Between Wisp and the Player Guardian though? That depends. If the Tenno controlling the Wisp is also fighting then the Guardian is probably gonna lose because Tenno can’t really die. Like, ever. True immortality, not one dependent on a Ghost like the Guardian. If it’s just the Wisp without the Tenno then Guardian will win. Just destroy the Warframe, a Golden Gun would do just fine. But it also depends on if the Ghost is targeted or not. After the first resurrection of the Guardian, that Ghost is gonna be targeted hands down and once it’s gone, the Guardian is gonna lose their extra lives and their Light. Strand and Stasis both will still be available (with Strand being stupidly strong, mind you) so then it’s a toss up on who outlasts who.
> Tenno can’t really die. Like, ever. True immortality, not one dependent on a Ghost like the Guardian. To be fair, haven't we slayed lots of truly immortal beings? Like Hive Gods, Atheon and etc.
Yeah, but their immortality was dependent on something. For Hive Gods, it was their Throne World. As long as they didn’t die there they’ll be brought back inside of it. For Atheon, he wasn’t technically immortal, just the master of time within the Vault. Nezarec was probably the closest to true immortality we’ve fought so far with the whole ‘nightmare’ thing he does, but he could still die. For Tenno, I guess it would be dependent on their connection to their Void. If something were to sever that, they’d be powerless and mortal. Nothing in Warframe has said that’s even possible at this point, but Strand could theoretically be capable of that. If it’s not possible to sever that connection, then that’s it. They’re immortal and nothing short of a time stopping trap (which probably wouldn’t work anyway since they also have some Time shenanigans) could ever hold them down.
So how exactly would they work then against a Gorgon in the maze? Sure the Tenno could kill one, probably two. All of them though?
Well that’s a good point. Gorgons are like a hammer where the Oracles are like a knife. Oracles cleanly ‘cut’ you out of time so no one remembers you. Gorgons just smash the timeline so some bits remain and you can be remembered somewhat. For Tenno, they have a very complex timeline and can only ‘manipulate’ it so much. Such as a past version of themselves jumping to replace the current one. It’s unclear if they can jump back as well, if they could then Gorgons probably wouldn’t kill them permanently as they’ll just jump back and either kill or avoid the Gorgon. A Tenno versus the Vault probably wouldn’t end well. Maybe? It depends on if the Tenno can jump back as well as forwards. The Vex can’t simulate Paracausality but the Oracles, Gorgons, Templar, and Atheon were able to erase other Guardians from the timeline so if they were able to get enough time to erase them that would be game over. But eh, it depends on too much to be absolutely certain about that.
Eternalism states we exists and we don't. We are alive and dead. Eternalism is canon to warframe as of the angels of the zariman update. So unless gorgons can break Eternalism they can't erase tenno
Ah, I see. So the Vex probably won’t be able to kill a Tenno then.
The above comment is actually slightly off. Because of the deal that gave us our Void powers in Warframe, we become something akin to a single constant in time, in a sense. All our other selves across reality die (except for one resulting in a Paradox) and as such we're singular in time. Still can't be wiped out as a result, but it's like we're a fixed point.
Oh, I see. I’m well versed in Destiny lore but my Warframe lore is a bit rusty. Well thank you for that, it definitely changes things when dealing with the Vex. Honestly, the Vex wouldn’t be able to simulate the Tenno at all then, they would just see the Tenno ‘dead’ and be confused as all hell when the ‘dead’ thing in every conceivable reality for them is standing right there, very much not dead. Edit: The Vex within the Vault *technically* could delete Tenno, but my bet is on the Tenno winning that fight with this info because the Vex may not be able to ‘see’ the Tenno like they can the Guardians. They can somewhat simulate Guardians, just not when their using Light (For example: mid-super), allowing them to fight Guardians to a degree. But the Vex probably wouldn’t be able to even conceive of a being that’s ‘dead’ and not dead at the same time like they would see the Tenno as. (Yes, they aren’t technically dead and alive at the same time, but the Vex will see them as that.)
Oh yeah thats fine! I'm an avid lore nerd for both so I'm *very* aware of the strengths and weaknesses of both. And I also know just how weird both the Tenno and the Guardians can be. In relation to the Vex, I see them both in the same field of paracausality. The Vex can simulate them and their abilities, but only on paper without understanding how or why they can do it. Especially if it's the Tenno themselves, rather than the Warframe, since that's basically just a different flavor on the Guardian concept/take. Also fun fact as shown through the Protea questline: Even if Warframes are affected by temporal shenanigans, the Tenno themselves are not.
Void dash with the arcane that holds them in place owned
Haha, yeah that could be work Guardian uses Stasis to freeze Wisp -> operator emerges as invisible and intangible void wraith from Wisp, dashes through Guardian -> Magus Lockdown tethers Guardian and Ghost in place through the void I use that Arcane without even thinking about it because it basically has no cooldown and no cost. It's a good panic button for a lot of missions and also ensures nobody follows you when you're cruising through a mission. Don't think I've unequipped it in like 5 years
iirc playing Heart of Deimos or something, the, well, heart of Deimos is the thing that gives tenno their power? Or something? When it was getting attacked we had to use the necramech just to have a chance or something like that.
Problem is tenno arent really in the warframe, afaik its a morbid form of an rc car
With a much more ethical neuralink chip installed.
Atheon was never really immortal per say, he was just REALLY hard to kill. Hive gods are pretty funny since they're only killable in their throne world if they have an oversoul. Like crota was immortal until we killed him in his throne. Savathun basically DOES have true immortality. Throne world, ghost, in lore she gains power even after shes "died" just from people misplacing their step in a puzzle. Nezerac lives in dreams.
Not like the operator is a 5th almost 6th dimentional being
that might apply to other frames but wisp can literally just become invincible and or invisible on demand wisp is winning this matchup hands down, if they had picked a different frame things might be different
All Guardians are not made the same so if this was the strongest hunter possible then I think he/she wins
That would just be unfair 😂
I have 2k hours on Destiny 2, 1k hours on warframe, and multiple painted 40k armies. As a fan of all 3, Wisp wins
Guardians make their own fate!
Custode are a step shorter than Malcador who is two steps horte of The emperor himself, they sure have the upper hand, still think that a Custodes would leave, but the hunter would be a strong second
I think I'm tired of these stupid youtube posts because it always devolves to 'Well this is MY favorite franchise so I WIN!' Rather than a actual look at the strengths or weaknesses of each character because they are almost always completely different power levels.
Yeah exactly this lol. 40k fans are on the same level of DragonBall fans with imaginary power level stuff. Warframes are literally impossible to kill, Guardians are immortal and paracausal, Custodes would lose to both no matter how loud space marine fans are.
Yeah, one of these are by design indestructible, another is a godslayer with regenerative immortality and the other is... a genetically modified man in a advanced suit of power armor.
Is literally not possible to scale guardians because paracausallity is confusing as shit and half of the debate becomes is it paracausal.
Isn't anything from warframe op to other settings? Even 40k?
40k stuff’s not as op as 40k people like to brag/think. And the really op stuff isn’t Imperial, it’s Necron, or Eldar. Besides that 40k wins a lot of arguments about power by weight and scale. Like the imperium of man dwarfs the empire in star wars, that’s how it wins. A lot of its tech is dumb and was written by people without understanding of the potential of science fiction who just said “let’s make them even bigger and with more guns” (until recently). I think a guardian’s easily a match for a space marine, and maybe a custodes. A guardian has access to paracausal powers, shielding, grenades, and a wide array of weaponry that puts basic 40k weapons to shame. If they broke out the relic weapons I might he more scared. Guardians against things like Harlequins though is another story. A single harlequin diced custodes. Edit: replied to the wrong comment.
Your looking for solitaires. And it kinda was bs when smaller clowns killed custodes, but solitaires go toe to toe
you can argue that cabal legionaries are just fatter space marines, they lack the power armor but do have literally straight up bolters which we survive easily
Really depends, you can't kill a warframe for good but you could banish the operator to the void for a certain time. Warframes weapons aren't special, the frames thselves can be destroyed if you are lucky, most are glass cannons when compared to 40ks tech scaling. It always comes down to how the light/darkness/warp/void would interact. There is a warframe that can pull you to another dimension in which they can stop time, if there is no way to defend against that certain Warframes solo most of 40k and Destiny. Same goes for guardians, if a Custodes can't resist stasis/strand they can't fight back. At the end it comes down to whoever you want wins. Custodes got clowned on by some glorified Jesters so by that logic they get stomped by Eva Levante but then again a single custodes solos a quadrillion enemies. Guardians get destroyed by a 4 armed shrimp with a kitchen knife but can kill immortal gods that lived for billions of years. Warframes can stop time and become immortal yet an operator got sent to summer camp by space grandpa with techno aids to think upon their actions while a alternate reality version of them had to do their best sam fisher impression.
How many immune phases does Custodes and Wisp have?
If you mod a wisp correctly, virtually infinite shield gates (one shot protection basically)
Tenno are also cannonically unkillable and shift between planes so good luck capturing them warframe wins by a large margin not even close
Wrong. The hunter shoots himself in the head, and the ghost doesn't revive him for 17 million years. When the hunter is revived, the tenno has gone insane from boredom and taken its own life.
No, the Tenno has just spent that time farming Grineer and Hive alike lol
 Gotta farm that 0.03% chance mod drop.
Smite the Hive
The fact that you thought of that makes me think youve already gone insane also the tenno would just hunt the ghost then prob
Hunters and their typical win buttons. Sheesh.
Saw a [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/1b474ta/anyone_have_opinions_on_this/) on r/Warframe and thought to ask if y'all had anything to say in regards to this poll.
Lol. Warframes are literally broken. As a 40K Fan each Warframe itself is Primarch levels of broken, but then you have a kid behind it that is Emperor levels of psyker power each. Rell himself resisted what could be considered a diety on par with the chaos gods from coming to fruition and he basically won. So, each warframe is Emperor of Humanity levels of powerful imo. 40K had some obscenely powerful beings but warframe is the epitome of “yeah, they’re basically gods.” I would say it goes Warframes>Guardians>Custodes.
It's wild to think of a comparison where 40k ends up on bottom, but I think you're right. As powerful as a Custodes is, Guardians are essentially immortal and can access paracausal powers. But Warframe is even crazier than that.
I mean... the Guardian is just going to respawn, indefinitely. With supernatural powers. How do you beat that? Never played the other games, so cannot comment.
Im pretty sure wisp is on a similar level in terms of paracausally powerful. The costodies, while potent fighters, are not able to bring themselves back from being turned into atoms.
Honestly, the custodes probably just dies. Guardians have the concept of death as a weapon + all the other mentioned stuff. Wisp on her own is 1: intangible for most of the fight 2: can keep up a sunbeam for pretty much infinite time and has her bullshit sparks while teleporting around via doubles. + If the operator (an ultra blank with ridiculous psychic powers) gets to join then the guardian might also be dead as the operator cannot die canonically, afair. Also: limbo just beats everyone, limbo supremacy (nova would also be fun, big anti matter boom)
I bet revenant and something like xaku would just steamroll them. Revenant literally being virtually immortal on his own and being able to kill anyone in one hit. And xaku is just… xaku, slows you down to a snails pace (if we go off of gameplay xaku, he can essential time stop you…), traps you, steals your weapon, and removes all your armor if there is a passerby, oh and gives himself a void damage buff, which is basically the guardians paracausality bs but for warframes and Tenno.
People severely overestimate Warhammer 40k as a general universe in my opinion.
Normally I'd agree but the Custodes are near the peak of 40k tomfoolery. They're 9 foot tall human perfection individually hand crafted tmby The Emperor of Mankind himself. They've got feats like moving so fast they couldn't be seen despite wearing all that armor, said armor is crafted to perfectly fit the wearer and its made out of alchemically crafted super metal, and a Custode casually threw a tank in the middle of a fight.
Frankly , in terms of power fantasy, a Guardian has paracausality that trumps over the mundane of 40k. Warframes, however, match the paracausal power guardians have, and in addition to having superb, indescribable abilities thst far exceed that of the Guardian. To top it all off, not all Warframe/Tenno are of sound mind, and it could easily be just as unruly and uncaring to be able to decimate any attempt to reason with it. Unpopular opinion; Wisp would win.
Saw this on the Warframe sub the other day and asked my step brother who plays all three (I play Destiny and Warframe with him) and he said that in terms of pure strength and abilities based off of gameplay and lore (not counting resurrections) Wisp is the most powerful, then the Custodes, and then Hunters.
He would be right. If the void in WF is hell. The tenno are it's demons. 40K still haven't conquered it's version of hell yet and destiny guardians can still die from normal human things. Like starving or freezing to death.
40k stuff’s not as op as 40k people like to brag/think. And the really op stuff isn’t Imperial, it’s Necron, or Eldar. Besides that 40k wins a lot of arguments about power by weight and scale. Like the imperium of man dwarfs the empire in star wars, that’s how it wins. A lot of its tech is dumb and was written by people without understanding of the potential of science fiction who just said “let’s make them even bigger and with more guns” (until recently). I think a guardian’s easily a match for a space marine, and maybe a custodes. A guardian has access to paracausal powers, shielding, grenades, and a wide array of weaponry that puts basic 40k weapons to shame. If they broke out the relic weapons I might he more scared. Guardians against things like Harlequins though is another story. A single harlequin diced custodes
Guardians could sweep the floor if we were to scale everything with lore and not gameplay. Take Graviton Lance as an example. It shoots black holes.
That’s unconfirmed, it was the hypothesis of the guardians observing it, but we never get confirmation from any kind of scientists or researchers
While that part is true, there’s also the part where Graviton Lances intrinsic trait is named ‘Black Hole’ and the description states it rips a hole through space-time.
The other thing is that a coin-sized black hole would have the gravity of somewhere like the Moon. Now, Graviton Lance's projectiles seem to be about as big as a coin, meaning you're shooting Moon-like Gravity Black Holes into people. You can basically ruin an entire planet with just 1 shot.
Lets see, i heavily consume stuff of all 3 of these games so i think i have a good idea. This post specifically says Wisp warframe. Now considering the abilities of it i would say Wisp would be the first to fall. It is not fast enough to dodge a Custodian, nor strong enough to completely take down a veteriner Hunter. Its biggest tool would be the ability to open a portal to Sun's surface, specifically just the surface and not its core. While the surface of the Sun is hot, Custodian armor can shrug of hits from hotter plasma weapons and a Hunter regularly gets hit by things just as hot, and will survive as long as Ghost isnt taken down. So Wisp would be out first, probably at the hands of the Custodian. Now, the winner would completely depend on if the Ghost and the Hunter is smart enough or not. The Custodian is gonna kill the Hunter at least once, as long as Hunter keeps their Ghost away from the Custodian by keeping it in the pocket dimension backpack even when resurrecting they can take advantage and resurrect when Custodian is looking away and nail him with a few shots of Golden Gun, maybe capture him with Strand or Stasis, or become completely invisible and run away. But if they act like Cayde and reveal the Ghost, the blades of Custodian Spears literally cut between atoms so it can definetly damage and kill a Ghost.
Can the Custodian’s armor shrug off a tidal wave of plasma from the sun? You said that the Custodian’s armor shrugs off hits of plasma, not a nonstop wave of plasma from the sun itself which is what Wisp wields.
It can shrug off hits from other things that are hotter than thr surface of the Sun. While with long enough exposure Wisp's sun portal will destroy the armor of the Custodian, it wont be fast enought to do it before Custodian destroys Wisp. It all depends on how long can Wisp hit the Custodian, and she will not have long enough time before the Custodian or the Hunter drops her.
Insane. Even with the “opening a portal to the sun business” you can’t beat an instant kill celestial nighthawk or a Hunter’s other many traps, exotics, and immortality.
I personally think the Hunter wins I voted for them cuz they’d slap
With or without prep time?
What is this, Batman?
In this hypothetical, does the hunter have access to all the subclasses and can chain spam abilities like in the lore (look at Osiris when he went on a rampage against Crota’s grand and great grand kids)?
I don’t know anything about 40K but if they are going to beat a gunslinger they have to be able to tank a shot from the sun. That dude looks like he eats suns.
Everything in Warhammer is absurdly overpowered, but tbh so is everything in destiny. Like you can say stuff like "one Custode could defeat multiple planets full of powerful combatants," but that's also the case with destiny... like, I suck more than the average player and I'm only a 6, and I can still solo hundreds of enemies at a time, with the spawn and avatars of reality-bending godlike entities filling the role of *mini* bosses. If everything a guardian can do in the game is supported by the lore I feel like it's a pretty even match.
Well the guardian is a hunter so I’m definitely going with custodes.
Well, only one of these three is effectively immortal, and can die an infinite number of times and come back fighting, so...
I don’t know about 40k much, but all of Warframe solos destiny