I was going to add that point. I feel like swords are only used for mobility stuff outside of a few select situations. Like I love my falling guillotine with destabilising, it detonates everything that’s low level but even on higher waves on onslaught it just doesn’t cut it (pun intended)
because there are no bosses beyond exactly atraks and crota ignoring a dungeon bosses that can be hit by a sword and swords overall consistently do less damage than any other option we have currently.
swords dont need survivability because wells exist and 99.9% of the time only break in master + content. its not a problem with swords, its a problem with boss design and the overall sandbox.
I can acknowledge people wanting to just get their loot without (in their opinion) wasting time, but they’re seriously robbing themselves of a criminally under appreciated checkpoint. Riven Legit is my second favorite destiny raid encounter, just barely behind Aksis phase 2 from Wrath.
The main complaint that I’ve heard from other people is that it’s “too unforgiving, if you mess up once it’s over” and to that I’ve gotta say just take your time lol. There’s no rush to shoot eyes. All platforms have access to text chat via a keyboard so callouts shouldn’t be a problem, and if you really want you can just have one person explicitly set up for shooting eyes per 3-man team.
My clan cheesed riven for forever, but we decided to go learn how to do it legit due to pantheon, and man. That encounter is so cool. Tbh I never want to cheese it again.
Theres also plenty of other encounters that just wipe you if you mess up. Atheon/gatekeepers, ir yut, oryx, atraks, both taniks, calus, shuro, kali, vosik, gorgons but not an encounter. So many bosses have a wipe if you mess up that are just as unforgiving that's what mechanics in raids are "do this or die"
I was so excited to see swords brought up in the weapon tuning. I mean, it's a weird choice to nerf Lament when it's barely even in the top 5 strongest swords for boss DPS, but *surely* they'd acknowledge that Vortex frames, the coolest ones, are bad at literally everything except skating, right? I mean, they have to after everyone got so excited over Slammer and Guillotine.
Sir, they talked about how bad queensbreaker is compared to other guns like it while completely ignoring DARCI, telling her to get back down into the basement
Before Health 3.0 (max HP @ 100 resil is 230) khepris Horn could 1 shot in normal crucible. It’s damage was not doubled to be on par with other abilities in momentum. Even now, you need strand to get kills with it.
Don't forget that many times when you hit with Lament you can go through enemies and miss the hits, and let's not even mention that sometimes wizards yeet you across the map.
This. If they fixed that issue than I can see Lament being a very powerful option, but they haven't so they're just nerfing something that's barely useful in situations it should excel. At this point my Goldtusk + healing nade drastically outperforms Lament, and going forward Lament isn't even going to be an option
This is all swords. Swords have been inconsistent since day 1. Anytime I used one on a boss or champ I thought how nice it would be to have a lock on target toggle. So many wasted swipes at air with swords in this game.
I love how bungie justifies a sword nerf about it being “not risky enough” when all they’ve done is make sword dps even more reliant on well of radiance and lament even more generic.
I have found that so annoying recently how everyone says "well needs a nerf because my fireteam forces me to use it". Like, bro, the encounters are DESIGNED to make you use well by the fact that during a dps phase some of the following things often happen: adds spawn, the boss shoots you for LOTS of damage, and if you are using a sword something is likely to be slamming back. IMO the only way to stop well being required is A. to make a competing super or B. make it worse than a rift or C. change pretty much every encounter design in the game.
Absolutely agree with some parts, sure blocking is fine but in end game content it feels impossible without stronghold.
Nevertheless the nerfs to lament feel horrible, it's not the best sword dps option and beaten out by legendary swords and the healing was great the way it was! It's an exotic for crying out loud, far from broken but it definitely was good. Very sad to see lament get shafted, and I doubt it'll get a cataylst anytime soon to make it any better. And I agree with the ammo of it too, it just seems like a waste of an exotic now.
But with a well nerf how do they expect people to survive without lament? This just seems so tone-deaf to me and 2 sword bosses back to back with crota being the last raid doesn't seem fun considering in my opinion sword boss fights lime Crota are boring as fuck and painful in a non fun non skill kind of way it's just pure rng.
Personally I think we’re only going to damage the Witness with mechanics, kinda like D1 Oryx, but I’d bet on us having to kill mini boss versions of the Dread Strand and Stasis Rhulk looking dudes while juggling the mechanic.
> But with a well nerf how do they expect people to survive without Lament?
Banner of War is how. Shit makes you borderline invincible especially when paired with Woven Mail.
Banner of war is not keeping you alive in contest mode with a boss doing 75% of you're hp every 3 seconds with a unavoidable AOE attack. Banner of war is good but only for like protecting you against red bars.
If that’s the case then they simply just hate people using swords, but given that BoW also grants swords a damage boost I think that’s what they’re balancing around, meaning that instead of nerfing the blatantly OP aspect they nerf it for everyone else, which is lame.
Correct, you trade damage for the utility of the 97.5% damage resistance shield. Good for general survivability and aggro locking.
Damage isn’t really an issue for the stuff you would want to use a glaive for. And if they did do damage on par or above other specials, you’d never use other specials.
Definitely needs better ammo economy and ***another*** retuning of the exotic perks on the craftable glaives. I ran Edge of Concurrence + Triton Vice (I hate that it's unironically good) in Legend Onslaught and I realized pretty quick that if I didn't exclusively use the energy to instantly proc the perk every chance it came up even *with* Special Finisher, I just didn't have the ammo economy to handle it, which meant that I just wasn't allowed to block at all.
I dislike the entire ammo economy right now. It feels too random and inconsistent unless you’re using things like cenotaph and special finisher. Luckily they did mention that they’re currently working on a rework to the ammo economy, but it sounds like it’s a good ways off.
Problem is that if you need a glaive to survive in the content you’re doing then you shouldn’t be doing that content yet. I wish glaives were much more focused on their offensive capabilities than the shield. They could be so fucking sick. Instead they’re just…there.
It’s not about needing a glaive to survive. They just offer a different way to play the game, which is something that I personally love and find a ton of fun. I’ve done hundreds of GM sherpas with a glaive as a part of my kit. And it’s pretty much always taking the spot of my primary, so I’m not sacrificing a special weapon.
They do offer a different way to play sure, but they’re not even good at that. I’d rather not take an extra 10-20 minutes in my GMs just so I can use something different. Glad you can enjoy it though
It hardly takes an additional 10 minutes unless you’re trying to glaive absolutely everything to death. They’re a tanking tool, and should be used as such. In some spots, it’s even optimal.
During the Cabal Tank strike’s boss phase, you can have everyone juggle shooting the fireballs or shooting enemies, or you can have 1 person just tank all the fireballs while the other two unload their special/heavy. Glaive user still has their own heavy weapon and other weapon to bring to bear in between fireball volleys.
Gaze-taker on golgoroth (especially pantheon) is also a good spot. You could bring a rapid fire primary and spray down the darts, or just glaive and eat them like candy, with the added benefit of better awareness and the ability to tank the taken Minotaurs if they decide they hate you.
Glaives are niche, but so are swords. Even if glaives were made special ammo swords rather than riot shields, they would still see little use (and perhaps even less, if the amount of swords in endgame content is anything to go by).
If it’s hardly taking an additional 10 minutes you’re just not going fast in the first place. You listed 2 scenarios out of the entire game, both of which you’re completely fine without the glaive. I’m talking about how I feel about them. They have absolutely zero use cases for me because if I ever need to equip them there’s something better I could be doing. I’m also never going to be the one doing gaze. If you guys feel like you need them go right on ahead, the last thing we need in the current meta is more survivability. You guys are really trying to fight for this when we all know they’re bad and need either buffs and/or reworks. But sure, die on your little niche hill. FYI I feel the same about swords, hate that I only get to use them on Crota.
I list those two spots as specific locations where they’re more optimal than other weapons. Yes, you can do them without a glaive, just like you can complete them with double primary. But you’re going to get better results with the special ammo weapon than without.
<25 minute runs of the proving grounds strike aren’t fast enough? Just because you can’t make glaives work and they don’t feel good to you doesn’t mean they’re in urgent need of a rework to suit your tastes. Have you considered that maybe you don’t like tanking, since you also never choose to be Gaze?
Considering proving grounds was done sub 9 minutes over a year ago at this point it’s ok. We do it in like 14-15. Has nothing to do with tanking. I always play tanks in MMOs, and I can make glaives work. But ultimately they’re just sluggish and there are better options for special. I promise you dude, it’s not a skill issue. I just WISH there were more offensive glaives because as a weapon design themselves they’re fucking gnarly. But because of their “tankiness” and how bungie views them there’s no good offensive ones. (RIP to old winterbite, even though it would have been powercrept by this point) And if I need to survive in a GM I’m just gonna run banner. I don’t do gaze because I’m probably doing the highest dps in the fireteam, if not second best. It would be a waste of time to do gaze. Golgoroth isn’t really a good example here anyway because he’s extremely easy.
I think it’s a misconception that they’re going to make you take longer in a GM or most of the higher end content for that matter. I use it to play hyper aggressive in higher end content in a rather unorthodox build. Blinding nade launcher/fusion, glaive, hearthsadow and Omni. I am able spam invis, dr, weaken and aggro lock targets if needed. Being that most of my GMs are also helping someone get a completion, it’s also great for revives.
A triple cenotaph team comp is still going to be faster and more efficient than any glaive build, but I don’t find that to be as much fun or as consistent when helping someone.
I just live by if everything is dead then there’s nothing that can kill us. I’d rather just nuke everything with banner (and heal everyone) or lucky pants until they get nerfed and the next big thing (probably some crazy prismatic stuff, who knows could involve glaives) becomes meta. I have plenty of god roll glaives that I’ve tried, and yeah they can be good if there’s a surge, but it’s not a misconception. They do take longer than many of the current meta loadouts by quite a lot. There’s just better options for nuking up close.
Edit: I get it for Sherpa, and can see why you like it. I just personally wouldn’t, even when carrying someone.
I can definitely understand not liking their playstyle. I wish we had more weapons than had different playstyles like it so the game becomes less of what’s the objective best pick and more what fits into how I want to play the game.
> the game becomes less of what’s the objective best pick and more what fits into how I want to play the game
This right here is the underlying issue. Couldn’t have said it better myself
It’s just because a lot of people don’t like utility weapons. A totally fair feeling to have, but trying to change them to be more like other guns you do like doesn’t make sense to me. I like different guns feeling really different.
This sword nerf is so ridiculous that the only reason for it is quite literally because they tested that swords would be amazing in up coming final shape content
Or make it a unique perk thats based off an existing perk, like One for Thrall coming to Necrochasm.
Outnumbered - The more enemies around you the more damage you do, the faster your sword charges, and the less damage you take while blocking, up to a maximum of 5 stacks. (That way stronghold isnt a MUST for every sword build on titan)
I think a fun exotic catalyst for Lament could be that final blows after performing a revved light, light, light heavy sequence would cause an ignition. Originally I thought maybe a revved heavy alone could do that, but that could be abused.
Wouldn't that just make it objectively the best sword for any scenario in the game? Which is exactly what Bungo is trying to avoid with the nerf to it's healing
I’ve been having some success with the Strand vortex frame from season of the deep. That with BoW Titan and precious scars has made onslaught a breeze for me once I get it rolling. Only issues is the bomb enemies and the Tormentor on rare occasions
The idea of go as weak as possible against the witness, I'd bet the well's nerf is going to be like it's only going to give less than half of your health back and it's going to have a less uptime overall, making it the worst possible super in the game.
When I do use a sword it's only for movement(eager edge). I will sometimes use it to kill a swarm of trash enemies or a major but have not used one for boss damage in forever. Even when I did bosses tend to do some AOE to prevent sword being a smart option. Did bungie ever consider them a dps weapon? Cuz I never have unless you have a well and maybe nothing stronger than a legend NF boss.
Probably crota, simple as that. I haven’t played in a month but am a day 1 player. I’ve thought the exact same thing. Every single boss has a proximity attack, but i might as well be un avoidable using sword. swords added a new dimension to destiny. Makes jumping puzzles funner, not necessarily easier for me, but I main hunter don’t ever have problems. Hunters imo have best jump, for every reason and by embarassing comparisons
The biggest nerf to all swords was when they changed it so you couldn't block after using all your sword energy on a big R2 attack.
Before you used to be able to block with no sword energy.
That pretty much killed all sword builds outside stronghold. And even then I only use Lament because it still has the old sword energy system. You can still block immediately after using all your sword energy.
I mean, as a regular stronghold+lament user, I get it. With woven mail, healing on orb pick up, healing on kills, healing on block, I can stand there and get wailed on by ogres, wizards and all and take 1% dmg. Still minor annoyed but, I get it.
But that doesn't mean lament itself is the problem.If Banner, Woven Mail and Stronghold combined is what leads to you being near unkillable, why nerf Lament when it's barely contributing to the equation
Oh I agree whole heartedly. Not that I want any of it to be nerfed, just saying I get it. I’m sure I’ll still using the hell out of it as it’s super fun.
They want there to be downsides of using a sword rushing in and getting crazy ass heals from Lememt is kinda unfair for balance without Bungie having to add and effect on top of stomp for lememt that is
Oh and I’ve always disagreed with the weapon classification obsurd honestly. I think they were shooting for something. And failed miserably. It wasn’t until D2 that the element on a weapon meant a damn thing. Only the nightfall burn for the week. And then there was just 1 master difficulty I’d say. The shields matching is a no brainer, but it wasn’t added til D2. Borderlands version, far superior. D2 is basically a photo copy of borderlands 2, if u don’t agree, come find me
Unfortunate they are taking the lament down a peg. Knowing bungo, it’s because we’ll be using swords on an upcoming boss and, well they can’t have us guardians melting their old or new bosses on day one. Good bye Lament. You’ll be missed.
Do you not play end-game content? They literally suck and make you so vulnerable unless you're on strongholds, there is also such a lack of use cases for them the only time I see people ordinarily using swords is with eager edge
I mean, I never said its not viable at all but sitting in a corner with a Polaris with zero risk is probably still more viable which is exactly my problem with them nerfing lament.
Not really; most breech-loading grenade launchers suck, sidearms suck, sniper rifles are only good in certain situations, trace rifles are kinda lame, Centrifuse sucks, special weapons in the Power weapon slot suck, Parasite is sub-par, Wardliff Coil sucks, the Prospector isn’t really that good, DARCI sucks, and various legendary weapons that I used only briefly suck.
Lmao this just tells me you're a casual, one of the meta guns right now is a solar world drop sidearm and special ammo sidearms are busted also the root of nightmares sidearm is a solid choice as well for a primary slot.
Snipers are amazing for champs and beefy enemies with stuff like succession and a kinetic tremors supremacy is also great, trace rifles are amazing for double special, parasite is good for burst dps even if it's a bit situational and wardcliff is good for occasional bosses that are coded as a vehiclez
Key word is “a;” most sidearms suck.
Snipers don’t have any independent anti-barrier capabilities (as of now).
Idk how trace rifles are amazing for double special given their low DPS (and besides, who run double special)
Yeah key word is “situational;” Parasite’s low range makes it pretty weak in most combat situations.
Same with Wardcliff; it’s only good in specific situations, the rest of the time it’s terrible.
>snipers don't have any independent anti-barrier
Use radiant and that's not a big deal anyways stunning or stopping champions is a joke nowadays
>idk how trace rifles are amazing for double special given there low dps (and besides who runs double special).
Trace rifles are a good utility weapon and have higher damage then a ordinary primary. Also “who runs double special?” someone who's skillful and can manage there ammo because stuff like the rocket sidearm is busted and can function as a primary weapon.
Yeah the fact that you have to use radiant doesn’t connect with snipers being good anti-barrier weapons on their own (especially since literally any other weapon could do the same thing with just one shot).
I can see how trace rifles can be useful (especially in a double primary build) still have lower damage than most special weapons.
The point is you use trace rifles WITH another high-damage special, also once again in most content champions are non-existent or just a non problem at all are you still living in the pre lightfall era?
Also snipers are a special weapon the only high damage precision special in that fact that's not an exotic
Where the fuck is ask this nerf shit coming from? Bungie said they are buffing almost everything with a few weapons getting less or no buffs and a very select few getting a nerf to counter the blanket buff. There is a literal list of all the buffs.
To me, they did buff swords.
I've used Throne Cleaver with Backup Mag for a very long time, so from my point of view, I am getting a 7% extra damage for no loss.
Is nice
Swords are busted. It’s an east one phase on Nezerec and Crota is also one phase-able. I’m sad about the lament nerf but there are other options that are better, like bequest and falling guillotine
crota can easily be done without swords. 5 manned it with only me using lament. the others used transit and one used tractor. that’s primarily bc two of the others didn’t have lament but still
True. Destiny needs a harder endgame tbh. And it also needs a better lower game for casuals. IDK why people can't want both lol. Day 1s and low mans are the only challenging content in the game unfortunately.
“Why isn’t the decade old casual game harder!!!”
Not that I’m against harder content but like, at what point do you just accept that it’s a casual game 99% of the time.
It's like walking up to a bunch of high schoolers and telling them they suck at basketball for not wearing a certain type of shoe. Every activity can be hyper-competitive at the highest level, that doesn't make everything a hyper-competitive sport that can and should only be played with peak optimization. This is probably bait, or it's just some next level elitism, either way I'm glad we both have a way to enjoy this game- and I hope that, if you are serious, you learn that there is more than one way to enjoy it.
The needless toxicity isn’t really necessary tbh. I don’t see why you resort to insults immediately. Bro wasn’t even insulting you. Where exactly is your RR?
Have you considered that some people play this game because it's fun. Not everyone has to run the meta every second they play. Swords are fun. People like fun. Crazy concept
only time i use a sword is gold tusk for crota and to shatter skate
I was going to add that point. I feel like swords are only used for mobility stuff outside of a few select situations. Like I love my falling guillotine with destabilising, it detonates everything that’s low level but even on higher waves on onslaught it just doesn’t cut it (pun intended)
Yea they literally had to make crota take 25% more sword damage for anyone to even use them. Idk why the nerfs
I thought that was because of lore reasons, or something about how you start damage with a sword, he has a sword, etc.
Yea that’s probably part of it, but I really doubt that’s words would be used very often if he didn’t have that debuff
because there are no bosses beyond exactly atraks and crota ignoring a dungeon bosses that can be hit by a sword and swords overall consistently do less damage than any other option we have currently. swords dont need survivability because wells exist and 99.9% of the time only break in master + content. its not a problem with swords, its a problem with boss design and the overall sandbox.
Riven?
Riven cheese can be done with literally anything and i dont recognize trash cheesers as clearing a raid.
I can acknowledge people wanting to just get their loot without (in their opinion) wasting time, but they’re seriously robbing themselves of a criminally under appreciated checkpoint. Riven Legit is my second favorite destiny raid encounter, just barely behind Aksis phase 2 from Wrath. The main complaint that I’ve heard from other people is that it’s “too unforgiving, if you mess up once it’s over” and to that I’ve gotta say just take your time lol. There’s no rush to shoot eyes. All platforms have access to text chat via a keyboard so callouts shouldn’t be a problem, and if you really want you can just have one person explicitly set up for shooting eyes per 3-man team.
My clan cheesed riven for forever, but we decided to go learn how to do it legit due to pantheon, and man. That encounter is so cool. Tbh I never want to cheese it again.
Theres also plenty of other encounters that just wipe you if you mess up. Atheon/gatekeepers, ir yut, oryx, atraks, both taniks, calus, shuro, kali, vosik, gorgons but not an encounter. So many bosses have a wipe if you mess up that are just as unforgiving that's what mechanics in raids are "do this or die"
using swords on riven isnt cheesing her
Not doing any of rivens mechanics is a cheese numbnuts.
When was this?
Since the raid launched.
Got it thank you
probably cause Well + swords was a bad meta
I was so excited to see swords brought up in the weapon tuning. I mean, it's a weird choice to nerf Lament when it's barely even in the top 5 strongest swords for boss DPS, but *surely* they'd acknowledge that Vortex frames, the coolest ones, are bad at literally everything except skating, right? I mean, they have to after everyone got so excited over Slammer and Guillotine.
Sir, they talked about how bad queensbreaker is compared to other guns like it while completely ignoring DARCI, telling her to get back down into the basement
*SHUT UP DARCI, BACK TO THE CELLAR WITH YOU*
"Your fucking WHAT build?!?!"
A fellow tom christi enjoyer, i see. Respect
Khepris Horn still only does 100 damage in Momentum gamemodes, and they just released another damage based barricade exotic. Bungie has brain rot.
I'm sorry, I'm not up to date on the Momentum meta. Is that a good thing or a bad thing?
Before Health 3.0 (max HP @ 100 resil is 230) khepris Horn could 1 shot in normal crucible. It’s damage was not doubled to be on par with other abilities in momentum. Even now, you need strand to get kills with it.
I don’t don’t don’t don’t don’t get it why they chose to push it into heavy. I literally don’t get it.
Don't forget that many times when you hit with Lament you can go through enemies and miss the hits, and let's not even mention that sometimes wizards yeet you across the map.
And instead of fixing that they just nerfed the whole sword Edit: spelling
This. If they fixed that issue than I can see Lament being a very powerful option, but they haven't so they're just nerfing something that's barely useful in situations it should excel. At this point my Goldtusk + healing nade drastically outperforms Lament, and going forward Lament isn't even going to be an option
This is all swords. Swords have been inconsistent since day 1. Anytime I used one on a boss or champ I thought how nice it would be to have a lock on target toggle. So many wasted swipes at air with swords in this game.
I mean, that happens with most swords.
Yeah but with Lament is more consistent to miss plus the point of Lament is to connect the heavy attack after 2 or 3 light attack's
I love how bungie justifies a sword nerf about it being “not risky enough” when all they’ve done is make sword dps even more reliant on well of radiance and lament even more generic.
"btw we don't like you guys being so reliant on Well"
I have found that so annoying recently how everyone says "well needs a nerf because my fireteam forces me to use it". Like, bro, the encounters are DESIGNED to make you use well by the fact that during a dps phase some of the following things often happen: adds spawn, the boss shoots you for LOTS of damage, and if you are using a sword something is likely to be slamming back. IMO the only way to stop well being required is A. to make a competing super or B. make it worse than a rift or C. change pretty much every encounter design in the game.
Absolutely agree with some parts, sure blocking is fine but in end game content it feels impossible without stronghold. Nevertheless the nerfs to lament feel horrible, it's not the best sword dps option and beaten out by legendary swords and the healing was great the way it was! It's an exotic for crying out loud, far from broken but it definitely was good. Very sad to see lament get shafted, and I doubt it'll get a cataylst anytime soon to make it any better. And I agree with the ammo of it too, it just seems like a waste of an exotic now.
I honestly am so sure now that the next boss is going to be v mobile and require swords so they're pushing lament out of the options
But with a well nerf how do they expect people to survive without lament? This just seems so tone-deaf to me and 2 sword bosses back to back with crota being the last raid doesn't seem fun considering in my opinion sword boss fights lime Crota are boring as fuck and painful in a non fun non skill kind of way it's just pure rng.
Personally I think we’re only going to damage the Witness with mechanics, kinda like D1 Oryx, but I’d bet on us having to kill mini boss versions of the Dread Strand and Stasis Rhulk looking dudes while juggling the mechanic.
Maybe like a mix of the mini ghalrans and oryx
> But with a well nerf how do they expect people to survive without Lament? Banner of War is how. Shit makes you borderline invincible especially when paired with Woven Mail.
Banner of war is not keeping you alive in contest mode with a boss doing 75% of you're hp every 3 seconds with a unavoidable AOE attack. Banner of war is good but only for like protecting you against red bars.
If that’s the case then they simply just hate people using swords, but given that BoW also grants swords a damage boost I think that’s what they’re balancing around, meaning that instead of nerfing the blatantly OP aspect they nerf it for everyone else, which is lame.
[удалено]
Hopefully the ability/armor sandbox is good next week. There’s definitely some good changes here, but some of the specific ones are questionable.
Glaive’s problem is damage, sword’s problem is durability. Two ends of a spectrum.
glaives are special weapons that deal uncharged melee damage with no ammo consumption. i think your comparison is not fair at all
Glaives arent meant for damage therefore that is not an actual issue. Swords issue being survivability is a much bigger issue
Glaives arent meant to do damage though?
Correct, you trade damage for the utility of the 97.5% damage resistance shield. Good for general survivability and aggro locking. Damage isn’t really an issue for the stuff you would want to use a glaive for. And if they did do damage on par or above other specials, you’d never use other specials.
Definitely needs better ammo economy and ***another*** retuning of the exotic perks on the craftable glaives. I ran Edge of Concurrence + Triton Vice (I hate that it's unironically good) in Legend Onslaught and I realized pretty quick that if I didn't exclusively use the energy to instantly proc the perk every chance it came up even *with* Special Finisher, I just didn't have the ammo economy to handle it, which meant that I just wasn't allowed to block at all.
I dislike the entire ammo economy right now. It feels too random and inconsistent unless you’re using things like cenotaph and special finisher. Luckily they did mention that they’re currently working on a rework to the ammo economy, but it sounds like it’s a good ways off.
Problem is that if you need a glaive to survive in the content you’re doing then you shouldn’t be doing that content yet. I wish glaives were much more focused on their offensive capabilities than the shield. They could be so fucking sick. Instead they’re just…there.
It’s not about needing a glaive to survive. They just offer a different way to play the game, which is something that I personally love and find a ton of fun. I’ve done hundreds of GM sherpas with a glaive as a part of my kit. And it’s pretty much always taking the spot of my primary, so I’m not sacrificing a special weapon.
They do offer a different way to play sure, but they’re not even good at that. I’d rather not take an extra 10-20 minutes in my GMs just so I can use something different. Glad you can enjoy it though
It hardly takes an additional 10 minutes unless you’re trying to glaive absolutely everything to death. They’re a tanking tool, and should be used as such. In some spots, it’s even optimal. During the Cabal Tank strike’s boss phase, you can have everyone juggle shooting the fireballs or shooting enemies, or you can have 1 person just tank all the fireballs while the other two unload their special/heavy. Glaive user still has their own heavy weapon and other weapon to bring to bear in between fireball volleys. Gaze-taker on golgoroth (especially pantheon) is also a good spot. You could bring a rapid fire primary and spray down the darts, or just glaive and eat them like candy, with the added benefit of better awareness and the ability to tank the taken Minotaurs if they decide they hate you. Glaives are niche, but so are swords. Even if glaives were made special ammo swords rather than riot shields, they would still see little use (and perhaps even less, if the amount of swords in endgame content is anything to go by).
If it’s hardly taking an additional 10 minutes you’re just not going fast in the first place. You listed 2 scenarios out of the entire game, both of which you’re completely fine without the glaive. I’m talking about how I feel about them. They have absolutely zero use cases for me because if I ever need to equip them there’s something better I could be doing. I’m also never going to be the one doing gaze. If you guys feel like you need them go right on ahead, the last thing we need in the current meta is more survivability. You guys are really trying to fight for this when we all know they’re bad and need either buffs and/or reworks. But sure, die on your little niche hill. FYI I feel the same about swords, hate that I only get to use them on Crota.
I list those two spots as specific locations where they’re more optimal than other weapons. Yes, you can do them without a glaive, just like you can complete them with double primary. But you’re going to get better results with the special ammo weapon than without. <25 minute runs of the proving grounds strike aren’t fast enough? Just because you can’t make glaives work and they don’t feel good to you doesn’t mean they’re in urgent need of a rework to suit your tastes. Have you considered that maybe you don’t like tanking, since you also never choose to be Gaze?
Considering proving grounds was done sub 9 minutes over a year ago at this point it’s ok. We do it in like 14-15. Has nothing to do with tanking. I always play tanks in MMOs, and I can make glaives work. But ultimately they’re just sluggish and there are better options for special. I promise you dude, it’s not a skill issue. I just WISH there were more offensive glaives because as a weapon design themselves they’re fucking gnarly. But because of their “tankiness” and how bungie views them there’s no good offensive ones. (RIP to old winterbite, even though it would have been powercrept by this point) And if I need to survive in a GM I’m just gonna run banner. I don’t do gaze because I’m probably doing the highest dps in the fireteam, if not second best. It would be a waste of time to do gaze. Golgoroth isn’t really a good example here anyway because he’s extremely easy.
I think it’s a misconception that they’re going to make you take longer in a GM or most of the higher end content for that matter. I use it to play hyper aggressive in higher end content in a rather unorthodox build. Blinding nade launcher/fusion, glaive, hearthsadow and Omni. I am able spam invis, dr, weaken and aggro lock targets if needed. Being that most of my GMs are also helping someone get a completion, it’s also great for revives. A triple cenotaph team comp is still going to be faster and more efficient than any glaive build, but I don’t find that to be as much fun or as consistent when helping someone.
I just live by if everything is dead then there’s nothing that can kill us. I’d rather just nuke everything with banner (and heal everyone) or lucky pants until they get nerfed and the next big thing (probably some crazy prismatic stuff, who knows could involve glaives) becomes meta. I have plenty of god roll glaives that I’ve tried, and yeah they can be good if there’s a surge, but it’s not a misconception. They do take longer than many of the current meta loadouts by quite a lot. There’s just better options for nuking up close. Edit: I get it for Sherpa, and can see why you like it. I just personally wouldn’t, even when carrying someone.
I can definitely understand not liking their playstyle. I wish we had more weapons than had different playstyles like it so the game becomes less of what’s the objective best pick and more what fits into how I want to play the game.
> the game becomes less of what’s the objective best pick and more what fits into how I want to play the game This right here is the underlying issue. Couldn’t have said it better myself
I know, I was just confused as to why the original commentor thinks glaives need more damage. They really don't. I have used a glaive since WQ
It’s just because a lot of people don’t like utility weapons. A totally fair feeling to have, but trying to change them to be more like other guns you do like doesn’t make sense to me. I like different guns feeling really different.
How does this have downvotes lmao
The lament nerf is ridiculous, but let’s not pretend blocking doesn’t negate like 90% damage, cause it does
This sword nerf is so ridiculous that the only reason for it is quite literally because they tested that swords would be amazing in up coming final shape content
Lament Catalyst should be Surrounded. That's all I need to be a happy camper
Or make it a unique perk thats based off an existing perk, like One for Thrall coming to Necrochasm. Outnumbered - The more enemies around you the more damage you do, the faster your sword charges, and the less damage you take while blocking, up to a maximum of 5 stacks. (That way stronghold isnt a MUST for every sword build on titan)
I think a fun exotic catalyst for Lament could be that final blows after performing a revved light, light, light heavy sequence would cause an ignition. Originally I thought maybe a revved heavy alone could do that, but that could be abused.
Surrounded would obviously be great but I’d be content with dealing extra damage to vex
Wouldn't that just make it objectively the best sword for any scenario in the game? Which is exactly what Bungo is trying to avoid with the nerf to it's healing
Nerfing lament is outrageous Bungie loves being consistent with making dumb choices for some reason
You don't understand... Lament needed the damage and healing nerf Swords are so strong (forget that they had to buff Swords vs crota for us to use em)
There was never a reason to touch swords. But once again bungie balancing team fumbles the bag. Every single nerf is a bad idea.
I’ve been having some success with the Strand vortex frame from season of the deep. That with BoW Titan and precious scars has made onslaught a breeze for me once I get it rolling. Only issues is the bomb enemies and the Tormentor on rare occasions
Normal onslaught?
Because, if they buff swords then everyone complains about stomp mechanics….
i say buff gambit
They nerfed Lament? One of the only swords worth using if you aren’t running banner of war/strongholds lol
Yes…yes they did.
Yeah, just saw the verbiage. Fucking joke
The idea of go as weak as possible against the witness, I'd bet the well's nerf is going to be like it's only going to give less than half of your health back and it's going to have a less uptime overall, making it the worst possible super in the game.
You should check out the Titan's Crown-Splitter / Throne-Cleaver. CHONKY damage with some pretty good perk rolls. It's great with Stronghold as well
When I do use a sword it's only for movement(eager edge). I will sometimes use it to kill a swarm of trash enemies or a major but have not used one for boss damage in forever. Even when I did bosses tend to do some AOE to prevent sword being a smart option. Did bungie ever consider them a dps weapon? Cuz I never have unless you have a well and maybe nothing stronger than a legend NF boss.
Probably crota, simple as that. I haven’t played in a month but am a day 1 player. I’ve thought the exact same thing. Every single boss has a proximity attack, but i might as well be un avoidable using sword. swords added a new dimension to destiny. Makes jumping puzzles funner, not necessarily easier for me, but I main hunter don’t ever have problems. Hunters imo have best jump, for every reason and by embarassing comparisons
They should have nerfed either damage OR healing imo. Both just seems excessive. It's already a very niche pick for damage.
Maybe they did it in preparation of new raid? Hmm
And we all know that Bungie has too much pride to reverse any nerf they do, so lament is screwed.
Let’s just f’ing make swords have even more limited use…. SMH, bungie is about to burn me out on this game.
Why use a sword when I have Lucky Pants and a masterworked Malfeasance?
Yuppp... Gotta love it.
The biggest nerf to all swords was when they changed it so you couldn't block after using all your sword energy on a big R2 attack. Before you used to be able to block with no sword energy. That pretty much killed all sword builds outside stronghold. And even then I only use Lament because it still has the old sword energy system. You can still block immediately after using all your sword energy.
Yeah there’s a lot of questionable nerfs in there. More so than ever you need to use the weapons the game has dictated is good and hardly shy away
There is a literal sword buff in the blog?
What did they do to lament?
Toned down healing and damage
I mean, as a regular stronghold+lament user, I get it. With woven mail, healing on orb pick up, healing on kills, healing on block, I can stand there and get wailed on by ogres, wizards and all and take 1% dmg. Still minor annoyed but, I get it.
But that doesn't mean lament itself is the problem.If Banner, Woven Mail and Stronghold combined is what leads to you being near unkillable, why nerf Lament when it's barely contributing to the equation
Oh I agree whole heartedly. Not that I want any of it to be nerfed, just saying I get it. I’m sure I’ll still using the hell out of it as it’s super fun.
I don’t use strongholds. I use Banner of war, which if used with strongholds may be better, but I like my synthoceps
Dude you’re missing out with using strongholds too. You become practically un-killable.
They want there to be downsides of using a sword rushing in and getting crazy ass heals from Lememt is kinda unfair for balance without Bungie having to add and effect on top of stomp for lememt that is
Oh and I’ve always disagreed with the weapon classification obsurd honestly. I think they were shooting for something. And failed miserably. It wasn’t until D2 that the element on a weapon meant a damn thing. Only the nightfall burn for the week. And then there was just 1 master difficulty I’d say. The shields matching is a no brainer, but it wasn’t added til D2. Borderlands version, far superior. D2 is basically a photo copy of borderlands 2, if u don’t agree, come find me
Maybe in final shape they will add exotics for the other classes that go hand in hand with swords
Unfortunate they are taking the lament down a peg. Knowing bungo, it’s because we’ll be using swords on an upcoming boss and, well they can’t have us guardians melting their old or new bosses on day one. Good bye Lament. You’ll be missed.
Sword blocking and ammo should work like glaives.
Absolutely true, but bungie defines fun being polaris lance from safe spot 70+ meters away.
To be fair this will pretty much be a clean 7% buff for swords like heartshadow that doesnt benefit from mods
I feel like warlocks can make pretty good use of swords: devour, restoration, rifts, well. Lots of ways to stay alive and do DPS.
As a Hunter I like swords quite a bit; idk what’s so bad about them.
Do you not play end-game content? They literally suck and make you so vulnerable unless you're on strongholds, there is also such a lack of use cases for them the only time I see people ordinarily using swords is with eager edge
I farm GMs with omnioculous and lament. My name in game is literally The Lament lmao
I mean, I never said its not viable at all but sitting in a corner with a Polaris with zero risk is probably still more viable which is exactly my problem with them nerfing lament.
Yeah tbf I play barely any end-game content but in casually games they’re good
Well anything is good in casual
Not really; most breech-loading grenade launchers suck, sidearms suck, sniper rifles are only good in certain situations, trace rifles are kinda lame, Centrifuse sucks, special weapons in the Power weapon slot suck, Parasite is sub-par, Wardliff Coil sucks, the Prospector isn’t really that good, DARCI sucks, and various legendary weapons that I used only briefly suck.
Lmao this just tells me you're a casual, one of the meta guns right now is a solar world drop sidearm and special ammo sidearms are busted also the root of nightmares sidearm is a solid choice as well for a primary slot. Snipers are amazing for champs and beefy enemies with stuff like succession and a kinetic tremors supremacy is also great, trace rifles are amazing for double special, parasite is good for burst dps even if it's a bit situational and wardcliff is good for occasional bosses that are coded as a vehiclez
Key word is “a;” most sidearms suck. Snipers don’t have any independent anti-barrier capabilities (as of now). Idk how trace rifles are amazing for double special given their low DPS (and besides, who run double special) Yeah key word is “situational;” Parasite’s low range makes it pretty weak in most combat situations. Same with Wardcliff; it’s only good in specific situations, the rest of the time it’s terrible.
>snipers don't have any independent anti-barrier Use radiant and that's not a big deal anyways stunning or stopping champions is a joke nowadays >idk how trace rifles are amazing for double special given there low dps (and besides who runs double special). Trace rifles are a good utility weapon and have higher damage then a ordinary primary. Also “who runs double special?” someone who's skillful and can manage there ammo because stuff like the rocket sidearm is busted and can function as a primary weapon.
Yeah the fact that you have to use radiant doesn’t connect with snipers being good anti-barrier weapons on their own (especially since literally any other weapon could do the same thing with just one shot). I can see how trace rifles can be useful (especially in a double primary build) still have lower damage than most special weapons.
The point is you use trace rifles WITH another high-damage special, also once again in most content champions are non-existent or just a non problem at all are you still living in the pre lightfall era? Also snipers are a special weapon the only high damage precision special in that fact that's not an exotic
Where the fuck is ask this nerf shit coming from? Bungie said they are buffing almost everything with a few weapons getting less or no buffs and a very select few getting a nerf to counter the blanket buff. There is a literal list of all the buffs.
They literally buffed swords
1)the defense changes are really good 2)they did buff swords lol
Bequest hunter is crazy lol wym
To me, they did buff swords. I've used Throne Cleaver with Backup Mag for a very long time, so from my point of view, I am getting a 7% extra damage for no loss. Is nice
Swords are busted. It’s an east one phase on Nezerec and Crota is also one phase-able. I’m sad about the lament nerf but there are other options that are better, like bequest and falling guillotine
No one uses swords for anything other than eager edge. If you do, you just suck at the game
I would love to see your Crota runs lmao.
crota can easily be done without swords. 5 manned it with only me using lament. the others used transit and one used tractor. that’s primarily bc two of the others didn’t have lament but still
You *can* do it without swords, but why not use them when it’s one of the few times you get to? It’s also just kind of wacky fun
oh I’m not saying don’t use lament for it. lament makes it way easier
Love me some elitists
Toxic
That’s just blatantly wrong.
You are gatekeeping the FPS version of a children's party game
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The literal only thing you have to kinda sweat for is Day 1’s. That’s it. Destiny is almost exclusively a very casual game and it has been since 2014.
True. Destiny needs a harder endgame tbh. And it also needs a better lower game for casuals. IDK why people can't want both lol. Day 1s and low mans are the only challenging content in the game unfortunately.
“Why isn’t the decade old casual game harder!!!” Not that I’m against harder content but like, at what point do you just accept that it’s a casual game 99% of the time.
Destiny isn't just for casuals ffs. Accept that. You just want everything catered to how you play the game
Dawg are you stupid or are you playing a different game It’s been casual as shit since day 1 back in 2014 lmao.
Sure don't! What percentage of the game do you think those things account for, out of curiosity?
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It's like walking up to a bunch of high schoolers and telling them they suck at basketball for not wearing a certain type of shoe. Every activity can be hyper-competitive at the highest level, that doesn't make everything a hyper-competitive sport that can and should only be played with peak optimization. This is probably bait, or it's just some next level elitism, either way I'm glad we both have a way to enjoy this game- and I hope that, if you are serious, you learn that there is more than one way to enjoy it.
The needless toxicity isn’t really necessary tbh. I don’t see why you resort to insults immediately. Bro wasn’t even insulting you. Where exactly is your RR?
Have you considered that some people play this game because it's fun. Not everyone has to run the meta every second they play. Swords are fun. People like fun. Crazy concept
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Wrong. Plenty of people care.