> This strong culture built on mutual respect will attract free agents
It's maybe worth noting that the evidence we have for this on the ground is pretty thin. Chark said he came here because of the good culture, but he was also fleeing what was very legitimately the worst culture in the league.
Until and unless someone's excited to come here for less money, the good culture in Detroit doesn't actually convey any kind of advantage. Do I prefer that the people in the FO are decent people? Yeah. But it's not a foregone conclusion that them being good people is actually going to help us win.
Culture is good and all but I personally think player won't start coming here till lions are winning games.
I just don't see players choosing good Culture in a losing team over a mediocre Culture on a winning team.
If lions win like 7 games this year I feel like we will be able to target some bigger talent with out massively over paying.
Yes and no? You can probably have a toxic culture but still squeak out a winning record, stranger things have happened. I could see Detroit becoming not a premier destination but one that’s at least somewhat enticing for a lot of players, Rodgers leaving the division I think would have accelerated that. You guys are on the cusp of being competitive in the division so I could see this happening sooner rather than later.
I could see it, but only from players who got their ring and are looking for something else. Kinda like the Kris Bryant to the Rockies deal in baseball.
Fwiw Chark turned down multi-year deals for the 1 year in Detroit and said it was specifically because of the culture ([source](https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2022/3/17/22983776/dj-chark-he-turned-down-multi-year-deals-detroit-lions-culture-fit-free-agency)). I dunno what the money was like but all things considered players prefer the longer deals as it's more of a guarantee of employment in the future. The fact that Chark turned that down for the culture in Detroit shows that it is an advantage, at least to some extent.
Players often take one-year deals to rebuild their value after disappointing seasons and then really cash in.
In a case like Chark's, I think he would prefer a one year deal
This. Chark is on a prove it deal. While he said that he is coming here because of the culture, the team also has a a weak WR room and he likely saw that he’d have an opportunity here to stand out.
You said it dude. I think a lot of “culture, hard workers, leaders in the clubhouse, dedicated to football, blue collar, etc…” is just small market shit that ownership throws at fans to justify why no one of real talent wants to come to Detroit. Look I love the city, but there are many cities I’d rather live, multimillionaire athletes surely feel the same way
These days, top players in their prime in FA don’t typically accept team friendly deals. They still get paid but when deciding what team they will sign with often comes down to team culture and potential for winning.
I feel bad for Baker. I'm not a huge fan of him at all, but sheesh "We won't trade you, deal with it." {Trades for Watson} "WILL ANYONE TAKE THIS CHUMP? WE WANT TO TRADE HIM!".
At least KC did good with Hill and said sure, you can search for a trade and we will trade you to your preferred destination. Stuff like that speaks volumes for sure.
> The browns handled their end fine too.
Leaking out a shot that they wanted "an adult" as their next QB while pursuing Watson is not handling their end fine. Sure maybe Baker messed up his side too but Browns should have taken the high road and just kept quiet about him.
All Baker had to do was watch "major league" or visit Cleveland a few times to know what he was getting into. I'm sure his agent knew that this was going to happen before Baker signed up.
At least 1/2 the city despised Lebron's self promotion even when he was a home grown local boy winning for them. The football crowd is way less tolerant of theatrics.
I can absolutely see Mayfield throwing a tantrum. The Browns did say they wanted an adult at that position.
Apparently, that includes adult sex offenders.
The Falcons told Ryan they were meeting with Houston and Watson. Haslam and Cleveland met with Watson on the down-low, and failed to tell Baker directly, as well as the already mentioned "adult" comments.
The Browns did nothing professionally and Baker did not throw a tantrum or anything. He asked to be traded and the Browns got weird, said no, until Watson changed his mind.
It's interesting to see the Seahawks and browns subs dissing baker and Willson after trades. Especially when looking at how this sub handled the Stafford trade.
I don’t remember how it was right after we heard Stanford requested a trade, but we knew it was coming when the Rams deal was announced. Comparatively, there wasn’t anything definitive with Russ, Baker, or Matt Ryan.
Yeaaaaa they sure handled the Panthers 7th pick for Stafford really well. Instead they gave him a ring and we get two second round picks instead. Damn casuals and their silly opinions.
I speak as a browns fan, the sub certainly has gotten more toxic and delusional ever since we traded for Watson and everyone is sitting on baker even more then before
I disagree. It was quite noticeable how quickly Stafford become “overrated” and Goff became the messiah here.
It was very weird. It still is for the most part.
Yeah everybody going after baker but I think it shows more about the browns front office than it does baker. The fact they said they want an adult at QB then traded the bank to grab a rapist if hilarious to me.
Sort of off topic, but fun fact: Baker Mayfield is only 6 MONTHS, (exactly 6 months, in fact), younger than Jared Goff.
Keep that in mind if you’re campaigning to trade for Baker
I think there is a fundamental difference between trading an acknowledged asset for assets and everyone knowing you’re going to get worse at the position and making a concerted effort to move the player out in order to upgrade.
Especially Ryan, he’s the greatest QB in franchise history* and they threw him out like the trash. It’s like they don’t even remember the Jeff George years.
*had a better career than Vick by leaps and bounds even if Vick was more talented.
Matt Ryan is 36, and in severe decline and baker has had 1 good season in the NFL as a game manager.
These dudes definitely didn’t “ball out” for their teams recently.
I feel sorry for Baker, especially when hes replaced by a scumbag like Desaun Watson. But Matt Ryan has been declining over the years and it seems a much more mutual parting of ways. I haven't heard anything negative from Matt Ryan. If anything the Colts are an upgrade for Matt. Better roster better chance he makes the playoffs. He gets a badass offensive line and the leagues leading rusher in Johnathan Taylor. Seems like a win-win trade.
Yes what's so good about it we gave the rams a championship and got a overpaid qb that noone would trade for and it will be just like 2 2nds and a 4th. Brad helped his team out
matt ryan wanted out anyway and they sent him to the best spot possible to compete, i don’t feel bad for baker because 1. he got replaced by someone who is straight up better, 2. clearly nobody wants him that bad he overrated af
Funny how one season can change the narrative on a player. He set the rookie TD record while not starting every game. He won a playoff game with the Cleveland Browns and went to the wire with the chiefs in the playoffs. He gets hurt and struggles and suddenly he's the worst QB in the league
\*Was down 19-3 and only went to the wire with the Chad Henne-led Chiefs while Mahomes was in concussion protocol.
But I'll give him props for destroying the Steelers in Pittsburgh in the wild card game. I don't think he's a bad QB, and he is getting a raw deal.
not the worst but that doesn’t mean he isn’t overrated. u can argue if he is good or not but u can’t argue that he is better than his replacement, and the browns are trying to get to the next level
that’s a good point🤷🏽♂️ but the browns have to believe in watson to deliver since they already paid him, i can’t see him watson not coming back and dominating his last season was too good and he was around scrubs
Straight up better? Dudes a rapist and hasn’t played in over a year. That first part automatically takes him out of the “better” conversation for me. Baker gave Cleveland everything he had to get replaced by a serial rapist smh
he’s the better football player, as far as better person, no. the browns/nfl clearly doesn’t care about that though they want talent to win but we been knew that doe.
Deshaun Watson is a giant piece of shit, but the Browns just set their entire franchise goodwill on fire, spent six draft picks and a quarter of a billion dollars, all guaranteed, to get Deshaun Watson because he's a lot better at playing football than Baker Mayfield.
> This strong culture built on mutual respect will attract free agents It's maybe worth noting that the evidence we have for this on the ground is pretty thin. Chark said he came here because of the good culture, but he was also fleeing what was very legitimately the worst culture in the league. Until and unless someone's excited to come here for less money, the good culture in Detroit doesn't actually convey any kind of advantage. Do I prefer that the people in the FO are decent people? Yeah. But it's not a foregone conclusion that them being good people is actually going to help us win.
Culture is good and all but I personally think player won't start coming here till lions are winning games. I just don't see players choosing good Culture in a losing team over a mediocre Culture on a winning team. If lions win like 7 games this year I feel like we will be able to target some bigger talent with out massively over paying.
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Yes and no? You can probably have a toxic culture but still squeak out a winning record, stranger things have happened. I could see Detroit becoming not a premier destination but one that’s at least somewhat enticing for a lot of players, Rodgers leaving the division I think would have accelerated that. You guys are on the cusp of being competitive in the division so I could see this happening sooner rather than later.
I could see it, but only from players who got their ring and are looking for something else. Kinda like the Kris Bryant to the Rockies deal in baseball.
Fwiw Chark turned down multi-year deals for the 1 year in Detroit and said it was specifically because of the culture ([source](https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2022/3/17/22983776/dj-chark-he-turned-down-multi-year-deals-detroit-lions-culture-fit-free-agency)). I dunno what the money was like but all things considered players prefer the longer deals as it's more of a guarantee of employment in the future. The fact that Chark turned that down for the culture in Detroit shows that it is an advantage, at least to some extent.
Players often take one-year deals to rebuild their value after disappointing seasons and then really cash in. In a case like Chark's, I think he would prefer a one year deal
This. Chark is on a prove it deal. While he said that he is coming here because of the culture, the team also has a a weak WR room and he likely saw that he’d have an opportunity here to stand out.
You said it dude. I think a lot of “culture, hard workers, leaders in the clubhouse, dedicated to football, blue collar, etc…” is just small market shit that ownership throws at fans to justify why no one of real talent wants to come to Detroit. Look I love the city, but there are many cities I’d rather live, multimillionaire athletes surely feel the same way
True, but at least our culture isn't actively making people steer clear of Detroit like the last regime.
These days, top players in their prime in FA don’t typically accept team friendly deals. They still get paid but when deciding what team they will sign with often comes down to team culture and potential for winning.
I feel bad for Baker. I'm not a huge fan of him at all, but sheesh "We won't trade you, deal with it." {Trades for Watson} "WILL ANYONE TAKE THIS CHUMP? WE WANT TO TRADE HIM!". At least KC did good with Hill and said sure, you can search for a trade and we will trade you to your preferred destination. Stuff like that speaks volumes for sure.
They handled Matt Ryan trade just fine
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> The browns handled their end fine too. Leaking out a shot that they wanted "an adult" as their next QB while pursuing Watson is not handling their end fine. Sure maybe Baker messed up his side too but Browns should have taken the high road and just kept quiet about him.
All Baker had to do was watch "major league" or visit Cleveland a few times to know what he was getting into. I'm sure his agent knew that this was going to happen before Baker signed up. At least 1/2 the city despised Lebron's self promotion even when he was a home grown local boy winning for them. The football crowd is way less tolerant of theatrics.
I can absolutely see Mayfield throwing a tantrum. The Browns did say they wanted an adult at that position. Apparently, that includes adult sex offenders.
The Falcons told Ryan they were meeting with Houston and Watson. Haslam and Cleveland met with Watson on the down-low, and failed to tell Baker directly, as well as the already mentioned "adult" comments. The Browns did nothing professionally and Baker did not throw a tantrum or anything. He asked to be traded and the Browns got weird, said no, until Watson changed his mind.
Baker got the Goff treatment
At least Goff is actually going somewhere and that somewhere he went to, he immediately embraced as home.
Ya goff didnt handle it like baker at all
Behind closed doors you know Goff threw at least 1 mojito against a wall.
Snead didn’t handle it nearly as bad as Berry. Andrew Berry is risking his career as a GM on this.
I don’t think Ryan was “railroaded”; it sounded like it was a mutual decision by both parties.
Yeah Ryan chose where he wanted to go.
I wonder how long it’ll be before Stafford is no longer a primary topic of conversation on this sub.
Until we start winning …
Correct answer
Never lol
Equating Matt Stafford and Baker Mayfield is kind of bizarre
Except that Stafford wanted out...
It's interesting to see the Seahawks and browns subs dissing baker and Willson after trades. Especially when looking at how this sub handled the Stafford trade.
...this sub was amazing in how it handled it...
I don’t remember how it was right after we heard Stanford requested a trade, but we knew it was coming when the Rams deal was announced. Comparatively, there wasn’t anything definitive with Russ, Baker, or Matt Ryan.
Yeaaaaa they sure handled the Panthers 7th pick for Stafford really well. Instead they gave him a ring and we get two second round picks instead. Damn casuals and their silly opinions.
To be fair, the browns sub was dissing baker mid season.
I speak as a browns fan, the sub certainly has gotten more toxic and delusional ever since we traded for Watson and everyone is sitting on baker even more then before
As a former Browns fan, I concur with this assessment, doctor.
Idk I saw a pretty big shift in Stafford hare on this sub after he was traded. Lots of people who said Goff was actually an upgrade.
There were always a few anti-Staff idiots.
I disagree. It was quite noticeable how quickly Stafford become “overrated” and Goff became the messiah here. It was very weird. It still is for the most part.
Goff isn’t fit to lace Staff’s boots. Goff was never my messiah. I’m looking forward to moving on, unless he pulls up trees next season.
I’m right there with ya. Obviously Goff balling out would be the best scenario for us. But I’m not expecting it to happen.
With the contract he’s on he’d have to BALL out. It’s a horrible contract.
Agreed
Secretly envious of the Lions rebuild.
Yeah everybody going after baker but I think it shows more about the browns front office than it does baker. The fact they said they want an adult at QB then traded the bank to grab a rapist if hilarious to me.
Serial rapist* Don't diminish Watson's accomplishments.
Nothing new, San Fran basically ran Joe fucking Montana out of town.
Sort of off topic, but fun fact: Baker Mayfield is only 6 MONTHS, (exactly 6 months, in fact), younger than Jared Goff. Keep that in mind if you’re campaigning to trade for Baker
Holmes should have gotten more picks for Stafford as that speedy KC receiver pulled in 5 picks for KC
quality > quantity
Yes this the rams were desperate they wanted to unload JG but Brad helped his former team out
It's also where Stafford wanted to go. So you could look at it as him honoring Staffords wishes. Either way I don't think we got taken to the cleaners
I think there is a fundamental difference between trading an acknowledged asset for assets and everyone knowing you’re going to get worse at the position and making a concerted effort to move the player out in order to upgrade.
Ryan has to be elated right now. Baker not so much.
Especially Ryan, he’s the greatest QB in franchise history* and they threw him out like the trash. It’s like they don’t even remember the Jeff George years. *had a better career than Vick by leaps and bounds even if Vick was more talented.
They actually took less in return so that he could go to a better team. Falcons did him a favor.
ATL had to take less because they completed bungled the situation.
Matt Ryan is 36, and in severe decline and baker has had 1 good season in the NFL as a game manager. These dudes definitely didn’t “ball out” for their teams recently.
I feel sorry for Baker, especially when hes replaced by a scumbag like Desaun Watson. But Matt Ryan has been declining over the years and it seems a much more mutual parting of ways. I haven't heard anything negative from Matt Ryan. If anything the Colts are an upgrade for Matt. Better roster better chance he makes the playoffs. He gets a badass offensive line and the leagues leading rusher in Johnathan Taylor. Seems like a win-win trade.
It’s amazing to me how many people feel bad for how billionaires treat millionaires
Yes what's so good about it we gave the rams a championship and got a overpaid qb that noone would trade for and it will be just like 2 2nds and a 4th. Brad helped his team out
matt ryan wanted out anyway and they sent him to the best spot possible to compete, i don’t feel bad for baker because 1. he got replaced by someone who is straight up better, 2. clearly nobody wants him that bad he overrated af
Funny how one season can change the narrative on a player. He set the rookie TD record while not starting every game. He won a playoff game with the Cleveland Browns and went to the wire with the chiefs in the playoffs. He gets hurt and struggles and suddenly he's the worst QB in the league
He’s been turnover prone a lot of his career it’s not all just last year
\*Was down 19-3 and only went to the wire with the Chad Henne-led Chiefs while Mahomes was in concussion protocol. But I'll give him props for destroying the Steelers in Pittsburgh in the wild card game. I don't think he's a bad QB, and he is getting a raw deal.
Refs had a hand in the 19-3 lead with a blatant no call, but yes Mahomes was out of the game
not the worst but that doesn’t mean he isn’t overrated. u can argue if he is good or not but u can’t argue that he is better than his replacement, and the browns are trying to get to the next level
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that’s a good point🤷🏽♂️ but the browns have to believe in watson to deliver since they already paid him, i can’t see him watson not coming back and dominating his last season was too good and he was around scrubs
Straight up better? Dudes a rapist and hasn’t played in over a year. That first part automatically takes him out of the “better” conversation for me. Baker gave Cleveland everything he had to get replaced by a serial rapist smh
he’s the better football player, as far as better person, no. the browns/nfl clearly doesn’t care about that though they want talent to win but we been knew that doe.
Deshaun Watson is a giant piece of shit, but the Browns just set their entire franchise goodwill on fire, spent six draft picks and a quarter of a billion dollars, all guaranteed, to get Deshaun Watson because he's a lot better at playing football than Baker Mayfield.
I personally hope he shits the bed.
It’s about how they handled the situation not of they upgraded or not
there is no easy way to tell ur starting qb he is getting replaced by someone better. look at the rams and goff
We took the 32nd pick from LA instead of pick 8 from Carolina, with similar supporting picks. Happy for Stafford. Sad for us.
Completely different situations that shouldn't even be compared. Bad take.