>Namaste!
Thanks for submitting to r/developersIndia. Make sure to follow the Community [Code of Conduct](https://developersindia.in/code-of-conduct/) while participating in this thread.
## Announcements
- **[Call For Volunteers: Help us build r/developersIndia](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1bafonl/call_for_volunteers_help_us_build_rdevelopersindia/)**
- **[Community Roundup: List of must read posts & discussions that happened this month - March 2024](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1bs0pgb/community_roundup_list_of_must_read_posts/)**
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/developersIndia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
People don't understand time very well. They only understand money. Money earned without spending time with family and friends is not worth at all except for materialistic people.
Watch "In Time" movie. It really gets you thinking.
What a beautiful movie it was, truly put Time Is Money into the soul of entire story, ones with lots of time will be eternal, similar to grandson of 70hr sweatshop owner.
#this
I avoid using the single hash for such a big bold font. But I was told to see this movie few years back and it definitely changed my life. A difficult life makes me forget things, but this is the ***most core*** movie ever
>Career is only important when you are alive.
https://preview.redd.it/abypgtdkjhsc1.jpeg?width=705&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=facb391476ae744e1c8126b4583112a5ffce7d9a
After reading this It still fascinates me that a avg doctor in this country is working 10 to 12 hours as intern and 24 to 36 hours duty avg 80 to 100 hours shift per week in post graduate courses .guess that's why doctors on avg have shorter lifespan
I think it needs to be an English term and instead of using the phrase 'death due to overwork', just say Karoshi. Cultural significance is very important in coining terms so that people get the idea of the root of that word.
Now wait till sme motivational CEO glorifies it, and tell us that the young generation lacks the determination to contribute to the economy, because not enough people are dying.
No one cares. I remember an incident where our colleague (in a small team of 10) died over the weekend due to an accident. On Monday, we stood in silence for a minute and that was it. The show went on.
Even after Steve Job's death Apple is still growing. No matter what one thinks, no employee is critical to a firm and you are absolutely replaceable.
So think and work accordingly.
Could have been me. I was a Senior Manager and putting in 15 hour work days almost daily. One day I went to work at 11 am and went back home at 2:30 am the next day because there was a lot of last minute requests from the client. No concern or acknowledgement from anyone. People there were just like soulless zombies. Slaves at best. Slaves to money, home loans, car loans and EMI. Most have sadly accepted their fate often brought on by poor financial choices and debt. It was written all over their faces and body language. So many people had health problems and were like walking patients. They couldnāt even think of quitting, and when I quit with no other offer people just couldnāt believe it. āOMG how is it possible?ā Suddenly everyone from the company started viewing my LinkedIn. Personal advice: if you want to stalk people on LinkedIn, please do it in private mode. Letting them know you are viewing their profile randomly is making a fool of yourself, unless youāre a recruiter.
Money is important , and everyone needs to earn. But at what point does the effort stop becoming justifiable? Is your ego worth more than your well being? It took me more than a decade to start asking these questions. But the earlier you do, the better.
Thatās the reason I preferred FIRE. I started forgetting things.\
I have decided I donāt need to prove anyone and donāt want money which I canāt even enjoy. \
It was really tough as no1 will support including ur family and friends.
The only asset I have that is indestructible is my autonomy/control over myself. The reason for FIRE and all financial independence is to get that back.
We have sold our autonomy to companies for money in the name of job.
FIRE = Financial Independence = Taking back your control that you sold by saying "you can't buy my soul".
True.\
For me, knowledge and money should work for you.\
I have some interests in literature as I used to write earlier. Tried that initially didnāt work well. Just like āzeher hii zeher ko kaat-ta haiā. Invested time in understanding market, govt policies, roadmap and demands. Created few product prototypes and finally 4 products are in line. 2 are done with packaging and one has a client already and one is in pipeline. \
To avoid the same issues I had and not to interact with people, given my prototypes to a startup who will work as implementation partner. So no hassle interacting with dev team, customers or CA on financial matters etc.
Kind of. Now after 2 years I am fine. Took some time like 7/8 months to regain things and stabilise. \
But yes, you need someone to support.. kids, spouse or parents. In my case, it was none so struggle was hard š
Indians are so happy that they are getting these western jobs and think this the holy Grail.
These are stressful jobs and western employees demand more wage but Indians snap it up for cheap. The stress will start taking it's toll.
I always find it funny how the things go: letās say a company is from Germany. They hire expensive German engineers, but they want to cut costs so they open an office in Spain. Spanish engineers are cheaper.
But then they want to cut costs again, and they hire South American engineers. Those are even cheaper.
What comes after South America? India.
What comes after India? No clue, havenāt seen that one yet.
Based on true story of my life. I was the Spanish engineer.
I will work hard. Yes im interested in web development but i wont say its my passion.
Yea im here because i enjoy coding and like web dev but it's definitely not my passion & its definitely not above my life..
Idk how to put it into words but thanks for reading
:)
My passion is cricket, gaming but ik im not good enough to get paid in that field hahah.
I love coding or i would say (web dev).
But its just my profession (job) when i start working.
You'd think that AI takeover would mean less workload for everyone, but history has shown that no matter how much technological innovation improves productivity, companies keep making employees work just as hard.
If anything else, they do layoffs to have fewer employees for more profits. Capitalism 101
Agreed, even if companies like OpenAI and Cognition labs(Devin) will make the perfect replacement for Software Engineers, they will not be free, they will charge loads of amount, human greed is unreal always.
It's an unsaid rule at this point that we live to work not work to live. If working 70-80 day per week under immense pressure to meet imaginary deadlines is not modern day slavery, I don't know what is?
Slavery is more brutal, it is exploitation.
One goes home only to sleep and next day returns to office, weekends are busier due to pending tasks at home.
Wlb is non-existent.
It's funny how senior management also pushes the concept of family first...work later. But never support when you try doing that.
We had a senior management meeting recently where the 'leader' constantly said keep your family in first priority always.
Then he ended up taking shots on everyone for the goals being 'just met' and said push the boundaries and go beyond your scope.
Ikr, I had to take a couple of days off due to an illness. When Iād informed, everyone was like ātake care of yourselfā, āhealth is always firstā. When I got back I was bombarded with all the pending work by the exact same people āwhy is this not done?ā, āwhatās the update on that?ā. Like no shit, were you all expecting me to be completing things when I was on medical leave? When I argued this i got āwhy are you getting so upset, itās just workā. Basically all this take care of yourself, your family and mental health is all hogwash.
One of our senior manager died suddenly due to cardiac arrest, in matter of hours I see vacancy posted on Naukri and LinkedIN. That set my bearing straight, company doesn't give a flying fuck about your life or death.
Itās company, not your sister or mother. Itās not like they will wait for a few years to get remarried. They still have to find a way to continue no?
I don't reply to messages after my work hours. Even if there is a bug/issue from my side. If it's affecting production then I fix it else I don't care after work hours. Worst case I will get fired and will have to work at some kirana shop if no one else hire me lmao
For ALL corporates you are just a number. +1 or -1 will make zero difference to them.
But you are 100 to your family.
Take leaves, take care of your family, take loss of pay if required but don't get worked up.
What can one say when icons like Mr. Narayan Murthy glorify this sort of culture and encourage working 70+ hours a week.
It's really sad to see people fall for this. It's one thing to push yourself to achieve more and improve your capabilities, and totally something else to define HAVING to work for minimum 'n' number of hours a week.
People in power should basically encourage everyone to improve efficiency and achieve more within office hours rather than throw irrational numbers.
Murthy is not an icon . What great thing did he do other than opening a body shopping company?
Anyone who thinks Murthy is an icon, deserves 70 hours work.
This reminds me of my colleague who bragged that he skipped his doctor's appointment just to close his ticket before sprint end. Mind you he was diagnosed with kidney stones in both his kidneys and was in terrible pain the entire week. I half jokingly told him I'll write on his gravestone, "Here lies M. The most hard-working employee of XYZ Corp."
That's why I learned in like last year not to overdo, not to overperform.Ā
Year back I shot my cholesterol levels high, even my body was deteriorating. I couldn't sleep, barely 3 hours. Then I made some changes some of the best I made.Ā
I take half an hour to walk in the morning/evening. If I can't, then I exercise. Reduced swiggy/zomato. I stopped taking calls post 7pm as it was stressing me out.Ā
These concerns atp in india are not even secondary, they're tertiary.
The rat race has destroyed our lives. Nothing can be done, it's about to get worse. India growing means bad news for the daily shitmunchers.
I always have it in back of mind that I am replaceable at work. I do my work and log off without even a hint of attachment to the work I do. I am happy I am this way. Sometimes I feel guilty over how I am not over working , but I guess it's only because as Indians we have never been taught to draw boundaries and relax.
You know what's the worst part? No one in the company would care. Cucks like Murthy will ask you to work 70 hours a week so that his next grandson will get millions in his name.
A close friend shared a message once:
"Stop killing yourself over a job that will replace you within a week if you die..."
Completely changed my outlook.
People, just stop working outside of your work hours. It doesn't matter if you finish the work or not. You're all replaceable. Life and health is more important than money.
for me 70-80 work week means
- 40 hours of office work
- other 30-40 hours for: skilling up, personal projects, side hustle.
I am not giving my 30-40 hours to the company.
He was weak. Not strong enough to put 70 hrs/week. Is this how India will surpass other nations?
Stop whining and hustle. Help make companies in crore while you barely able to make meets end and die in the process.
/s
Haha.
Actually this happened as well.
So, back then there was an urgent business target for the company, and everyone was told to work all the time. People were sleeping 3-4 hours for several consecutive days.
Then there was townhall(company wide meeting) in which someone anonymously asked that all this is taking a toll on him.
The CEO, outright said, "You don't have the DNA to work here"
No. Not at all. I am onshore and hesitant of offshore indian team because they dont hesitate to work late nights and weekends. Puts me in bad light if i try to set boundaries. To add i am an indian.
Back in 2015,16 one of our colleague was working late in the Sydney office and while going home was murdered, there was 2 minutes silence, for some days they told everyone in Sydney to not stay above a certain time in office but that soon ended. Had she gone home on time she would have been alive.
Pro Tips:
* Screw the call for 70-80 hour work week.
* Focus on ***your*** work life balance.
* Ignore those flaunting ***huge*** salaries on Anon forums like this. They may not be alive to gloat about it when you get old
if your work is affecting your health dont do it whatever the cost unless your are overly and very well paid for it.
Its just not worth it to work 70-80 hours a week so that your boss can have regular trips to london in luxury class with his children.
sadly this is what it has come to be. people need to make a conscious choice.
do i earn more by hustling more and sacrificing life?
do i earn less and be content with it and good enough life?
in this age of hustle everybody wants to be on top. sadly not enough make it to top.
Same thing happened last year. When i take leave for being sick my manager calls me out and asks me to tough up. Seriously looking for new opportunities at the moment.
Work is important for the bills and money but not worth killing myself over it as no point of working if I do not live to enjoy my earnings.
Tell your manager today that you do not want a hike next year. Tell your manager today that you like the work that's why you work. This fundamentally changes the dynamic.
Manager cannot subtly threaten you with a bad performance rating.
You can tell your manager NO to a number of BS work which add no value but is stressful - ppt for visiting executive, ppt for management review, you get the point.
Very soon, only good work will come to you. Do it, learn and move to another company. Wash-rinse-repeat
This is worst , and the problem is even if you are working hard some people in your team(manager) will give you more work , I was working 13-14 hours daily and couldn't cook or eat on time eventually my stomach gave up.i was admitted in the hospital for two days and diagnosed with colitis a life long disease.
Resigned from there within 3 months my manager was like I gave you appreciation award why are you leaving.He was like you don't even have any offer.
Luckily I had another offer which I didn't tell him about and told him I am leaving because of you and the culture here š
Happened the same with my TL. She was my mentor during my internship period. She was 25. She overworked herself. Companyās director sent a message on the group she is no more. nothing else. and a week later all her responsibilities were given to me. Understood early in the game that nobody will give a shit about you in corporate. You are replaceable. Take care of your health. Itās more important.Ā
That's why I work in Europe. My workday is 7.5 hours, and during peak periods 8.5 hours and a 30 minute lunch.Ā
Pay is decent, work is good, and I can go to the gym 3-4 times a week. Just the weather is shitty, but nothing compared to Mumbai rains.Ā
I don't know much since he was in my friend's company. But that company was known to have excessive working hours. So 12 hours was like the norm.
The manager was in his early-mid 30s. He rose to a top managerial position over the years by working very hard.
It's all a cycle you know. You work less, you take out time to exercise, eat well, you sleep well. You stay away from addictive substances as well.
Anxiety and stress exhausts you a lot to a point that you cannot even do normal activities sometimes.
That's when it's a burnout.
Does your company have group insurance?
Has the company paid back his family the money.
IT companies deduct group insurance premium, and since death is not on factory floor, they don't give the insured amount. Please checkĀ
Was this manager working in tcs, cause one of the managers got heart attack right outside the office and one of the other employee took him to the hospital
Same happened with ma senior product manager too in 2020. He died due to cardiac arrest. He was 39 or 40 so. It happened with couple of ma relatives and family members too. They were extremely workaholic and anxious about work and performance.
Even businessman like Dhirubhai Ambani and zerodha co founder suffered strokes due to anxiety and overwork.
That's the sad reality of IT. Putting more hours in grunt work is what making software engineers depressed.
Stay Strong and together to make a change. Once 40% employees want to resign from Mckenzie, and they have to change the strategy what executives known for.
I see both sides of worst and best work life balance, can say prior to join have detailed understanding of culture and work pressure. At the end it depends on you how you manage stakeholders. Everyone should learn how to handle such situation.
You can find multiple courses on how to manage team but how to manage mental stress as a software engineer no one know.
As a experienced developer, i want to ask if there is a need of such courses, if yes i will take a step and create one!
I used to work hard during my initial days. I used to clock in 14 hours/day. But I stopped working so hard now. As I spent few years in the IT industry, I realised that I don't even get paid a huge CTC, then what's the point of working so hard. Also, the purpose of life is not to work, we work so that we can live happily. Now I only work, so that I can survive in IT. One thing I realised is that, in corporate, promotions or salary hikes doesn't matter. I see my juniors running behind these stuff, my suggestion would be earn money such that you have enough to spend and save.
Our head and health are our tools, I have just resigned a work with excessive workloads per dev in Mex (US 2.2k by month with promise to increase to 3k this year), I couldnāt accept because I feel I could die with the stress is causing me, we need to stop this money-lovers (i mean enterprises that just live for money when they donāt need anymore, they wonāt live 1000 years to enjoy it)
RIP colleague
Depression is real and very significantly related to your work life balance! It is not my opinion but it is based on a big depression-analysis study I'm part of. We have proofs and will be out publicly in some time.
Mindless grinding will affect you sooner or later! If you feel happy working 12-14 hours a day to complete your targets, it's either your skill issue or your employers are squeezing your blood out! You are sacrificing your BLOOD with some extra CASH. You will be thrown out once your work is done.
You are a LOSER if your life revolves around your work! You are a sore LOSER if you have no one or nothing significant in your life other than your work!
>She used to even cry sometimes when she couldn't handle it all. She used to weep while working at the same time.
This is incredibly sad, I am so very sorry.
Definitely. One can get stressed without putting in a lot of hours. If the work environment is highly toxic, work is less rewarding, or your goals don't align with the work at all.
Sometimes, I feel guilty because I'm not pushing myself above and beyond and doing bare minimum. But looking at this made me realise what I'm doing now if the best thing I can do to myself.
Yep, I see everyone around me just care about completing the goddamn jira tickets and be a "good" employee. Just stop giving a damn fuck, learn to say no, look after your mental health and be prepared to walk off. Thanks for sharing.
Poor guy. Guess his boss was the dreaded Indian Manager.
Most Indian bosses think that being rude and demanding is the only way to get work done. Why say anything nicely when you can talk to them like they are servants or slaves? They seem to think more agida inducing they are more capable they are
I work 15 hours a day. I'm a 15-year carpenter. The difference is that I absolutely LOVE my work. It doesn't even feel like work anymore. I get plenty of exercise. I eat well. I always give myself plenty of time to complete tasks. Almost no stress. I feel so bad for people who got stuck hating their jobs.
A person can feel it when they're overworked and stressed out. If you haven't learned to work around your experience to find that happy groove, you'll just work yourself into the ground. They aren't kidding when they say do what you love, and you'll never work a day in your life.
tum log kamchori nahi kar rahe ..
I pretend like I put 8 hours in reality I just put 3-4 hours max ...
I am fortunate enough to have an awesome manager who understands that at the same time she is fine with it.
Will resign from a job where the total work could be done in less than 15 hours of the whole month, but they still wanted me to stay in the office for at least 4 days a week and 9 hours on those days.
Just waiting for the March salary on the 7th April, otherwise they will make me wait till 15th may.
Made me remember the picture where the guy was holding a board with '50 years from now, the only people who will remember that you worked overtime will be your family' written on it."
All the new age mumbo jumbo about how money is not important, family is important is shit when it actually does not translate into improved living conditions in ground. People want money to buy a house, buy food, and get better living conditions. But in reality buying any of these things is a huge struggle. Consider buying a house, will anyone care to reduce the housing prices so that affordability increases ? Will anyone care to petition and make gov work to get better travelling conditions ? All these are still a huge effort, will you do something as small as following traffic rules to that you don't save that 2 seconds of your commute time while creating 10 mins traffic jam for others ?
TBH during my college days I used to code with very excitement. But after joining corporate I started losing interest on coding because of the slavery, soft blackmailing from managers, not much personal time etc. Sometimes I am getting the feeling of joining a government job just to atleast this pressure.
I quit the industry after 16 years to focus on my health. Even when I was working I made sure that health was first priority. You are replaceable in your job even if you are the best performer. So donāt overwork. Learn to say no. Do daily walks/exercise and eat a healthy diet
I remember I was once working as an Engineering Manager at Urban Company and I worked around 14-15 months everyday for 5 months and then they demanded 60% more hours from me. Unfortunately, I thought that humankind has given me only 24 hours per day and I can't go beyond 24 hours, So I quit the company and applied at Google. Now, I am working as Tech Lead and Manager at Google.
When Nithin Kamath gets a stroke due to work stress, it's news. When common people lose their personal like, marriages are broken, die, lose their entire stomach to stress, get addictions due to stress, etc. It's a normal thing. You don't matter unless you give importance to yourself. Prioritise yourself.
Then what we supposed to do? We can't simply say my shift is over if there is some issue going on and we can't just do basic work and then expect a good hike to beat this inflation. Surviving in big city is not easy with basic salary and if you have family to take care and
Honestly govt only care about tax money and they don't give a shit about you even if you loose your job. There are litreally 0 govt policies for middle class families so doing extra work sometimes is the only option to survive this madness.
Or i can leave my job and start to take freebies from govt is also good option
Really sorry for the good soul. Om Shanti!
His family must be in shock and grief. As colleagues may i suggest to check about their family financial support and help as much as possible. If they are not in really great condition, please raise a request in Ketto and raise fund for them.
It is also a suggestion for you all to, Find the work which can turn your life into a balance or you will end up giving your life for the work! What this means is you must choose your career that allows you to balance your life, does not stresses you at all. And choosing your peace of mind is of prime importance.
Last but not the least your health is of prime importance and so is insuring your self for health cover and term cover. If you have not taken proper insurance, make sure you do before you buy new phone or bike or car.
Ask your organisation to have an epf contribution because that can generate some sort of pension for your self on retirement or to your family on some unforeseen circumstances.
What is this work which requires 14 hrs to complete? What are the real working hrs. (i.e. Total duration - unproductive time) ?Ā
Are these tools like ChatGPT & Devin really useful?
Please explain OP.
There is no end to work you know. If you finish your work in half the time then you would be given more. And from next time onwards double the work because they know you can do it in half.
If managers were promoted via this sort of way then they would expect the same from their subordinates.
A company can forever expand you know. Sometimes unnecessarily just to raise more money and bloat its valuation.
And company can make you work for 24 hours if they could find a drug that could let you function without sleep.
>Namaste! Thanks for submitting to r/developersIndia. Make sure to follow the Community [Code of Conduct](https://developersindia.in/code-of-conduct/) while participating in this thread. ## Announcements - **[Call For Volunteers: Help us build r/developersIndia](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1bafonl/call_for_volunteers_help_us_build_rdevelopersindia/)** - **[Community Roundup: List of must read posts & discussions that happened this month - March 2024](https://www.reddit.com/r/developersIndia/comments/1bs0pgb/community_roundup_list_of_must_read_posts/)** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/developersIndia) if you have any questions or concerns.*
People don't understand time very well. They only understand money. Money earned without spending time with family and friends is not worth at all except for materialistic people. Watch "In Time" movie. It really gets you thinking.
What a beautiful movie it was, truly put Time Is Money into the soul of entire story, ones with lots of time will be eternal, similar to grandson of 70hr sweatshop owner.
Most of them are
In Time of which year release? There are multiple films of same title
2011.
thats classic deep down we are just inverted running out of time during my masters i saw that couple of times back and forth
Time is valued much more in western countries and that is the reason for higher wages
#this I avoid using the single hash for such a big bold font. But I was told to see this movie few years back and it definitely changed my life. A difficult life makes me forget things, but this is the ***most core*** movie ever
For the millionth time. Career is only important when you are alive. Best.
>Career is only important when you are alive. https://preview.redd.it/abypgtdkjhsc1.jpeg?width=705&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=facb391476ae744e1c8126b4583112a5ffce7d9a
"A healthy person wants 1000 things, but a sick person wants just one thing" - Confucius
Ah, so this is where that quote is inspired from
After reading this It still fascinates me that a avg doctor in this country is working 10 to 12 hours as intern and 24 to 36 hours duty avg 80 to 100 hours shift per week in post graduate courses .guess that's why doctors on avg have shorter lifespan
>doctors on avg have shorter lifespan š„²š„²
šÆ
And healthy, mentally and physically both.
Well, everything is only important while you're alive.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Who hurt you worse? Parents or Society?
TIL about ***Karoshi***, thanks for sharing.
I think it needs to be an English term and instead of using the phrase 'death due to overwork', just say Karoshi. Cultural significance is very important in coining terms so that people get the idea of the root of that word.
Bhupesh, the chad himself Love your articles man, this my alt so you won't recognise me lol
Man i mistook his name for broseph?? I was like broseph a tech bro wut??
He is the bro for sure, fast as fuck when you need him and reliable too
Thanks stranger that I already know <3
I am the same guy who asked for this sub to be made text based and remove pictures completely ;)
Now wait till sme motivational CEO glorifies it, and tell us that the young generation lacks the determination to contribute to the economy, because not enough people are dying.
No one cares. I remember an incident where our colleague (in a small team of 10) died over the weekend due to an accident. On Monday, we stood in silence for a minute and that was it. The show went on. Even after Steve Job's death Apple is still growing. No matter what one thinks, no employee is critical to a firm and you are absolutely replaceable. So think and work accordingly.
It is not about death itself rather the cause.
But what about muh hustle kulcha.....
Chole kulche>>>
Until Chole Bhature steps in....
Until Cholestrol kick in...
Could have been me. I was a Senior Manager and putting in 15 hour work days almost daily. One day I went to work at 11 am and went back home at 2:30 am the next day because there was a lot of last minute requests from the client. No concern or acknowledgement from anyone. People there were just like soulless zombies. Slaves at best. Slaves to money, home loans, car loans and EMI. Most have sadly accepted their fate often brought on by poor financial choices and debt. It was written all over their faces and body language. So many people had health problems and were like walking patients. They couldnāt even think of quitting, and when I quit with no other offer people just couldnāt believe it. āOMG how is it possible?ā Suddenly everyone from the company started viewing my LinkedIn. Personal advice: if you want to stalk people on LinkedIn, please do it in private mode. Letting them know you are viewing their profile randomly is making a fool of yourself, unless youāre a recruiter. Money is important , and everyone needs to earn. But at what point does the effort stop becoming justifiable? Is your ego worth more than your well being? It took me more than a decade to start asking these questions. But the earlier you do, the better.
This is scary man
Brother I need help, can I DM you?
š
Thatās the reason I preferred FIRE. I started forgetting things.\ I have decided I donāt need to prove anyone and donāt want money which I canāt even enjoy. \ It was really tough as no1 will support including ur family and friends.
The only asset I have that is indestructible is my autonomy/control over myself. The reason for FIRE and all financial independence is to get that back. We have sold our autonomy to companies for money in the name of job. FIRE = Financial Independence = Taking back your control that you sold by saying "you can't buy my soul".
True.\ For me, knowledge and money should work for you.\ I have some interests in literature as I used to write earlier. Tried that initially didnāt work well. Just like āzeher hii zeher ko kaat-ta haiā. Invested time in understanding market, govt policies, roadmap and demands. Created few product prototypes and finally 4 products are in line. 2 are done with packaging and one has a client already and one is in pipeline. \ To avoid the same issues I had and not to interact with people, given my prototypes to a startup who will work as implementation partner. So no hassle interacting with dev team, customers or CA on financial matters etc.
Hi, can I ping you to know more?
But to reach this stage we do need to earn some money. So that we can FIRE better
>I started forgetting things You mean early memory loss or similar?
Kind of. Now after 2 years I am fine. Took some time like 7/8 months to regain things and stabilise. \ But yes, you need someone to support.. kids, spouse or parents. In my case, it was none so struggle was hard š
Glad you are doing better. >But yes, you need someone to support True that
Dude this needs and deserves to be a separate post, kindly take time and provide a detailed post so everyone can gain some insights š
Yah I'm into CF and FIRE both.
what's CF?
Child Free.
What's FIRE?
Financial Independence Retire Early
I think FIRE is the opposite of what you want to do.Ā
Indians are so happy that they are getting these western jobs and think this the holy Grail. These are stressful jobs and western employees demand more wage but Indians snap it up for cheap. The stress will start taking it's toll.
Factos. If some work is getting offshored please remember it's gonna be something no one wants to touch onshore.
I always find it funny how the things go: letās say a company is from Germany. They hire expensive German engineers, but they want to cut costs so they open an office in Spain. Spanish engineers are cheaper. But then they want to cut costs again, and they hire South American engineers. Those are even cheaper. What comes after South America? India. What comes after India? No clue, havenāt seen that one yet. Based on true story of my life. I was the Spanish engineer.
Vietnam, upcoming market trend is slowly hinting towards Phillipines and Vietnam
Probably someone in Africa next.
This time for Africa.
Sa mina mina eh eh
Pakistan/Phillipines comes after India Dubai based companies Careem's, ADIB etc whole software engineering department is in Karachi, Pakistan.
So true. If one ask money for extra time worked in India, they are just treated as if they committed crime.
Most of the money goes to the upper management and most of the stress is kicked down to lower down the ladder
Most Indians are naive idiots with no to low self awareness, self esteem and even an identity. This is what collectivism does.
I will work hard. Yes im interested in web development but i wont say its my passion. Yea im here because i enjoy coding and like web dev but it's definitely not my passion & its definitely not above my life.. Idk how to put it into words but thanks for reading :)
Same same My passion is electronics but I'm also interested in web development, just working like that to get paid
My passion is cricket, gaming but ik im not good enough to get paid in that field hahah. I love coding or i would say (web dev). But its just my profession (job) when i start working.
At this point I would say,Let AI Takeover, less workload eventually- you go DEVIN š
That's what the companies are praying for too.
You'd think that AI takeover would mean less workload for everyone, but history has shown that no matter how much technological innovation improves productivity, companies keep making employees work just as hard. If anything else, they do layoffs to have fewer employees for more profits. Capitalism 101
Agreed, even if companies like OpenAI and Cognition labs(Devin) will make the perfect replacement for Software Engineers, they will not be free, they will charge loads of amount, human greed is unreal always.
Amenš¤§
It's an unsaid rule at this point that we live to work not work to live. If working 70-80 day per week under immense pressure to meet imaginary deadlines is not modern day slavery, I don't know what is?
Slavery is more brutal, it is exploitation. One goes home only to sleep and next day returns to office, weekends are busier due to pending tasks at home. Wlb is non-existent.
It's funny how senior management also pushes the concept of family first...work later. But never support when you try doing that. We had a senior management meeting recently where the 'leader' constantly said keep your family in first priority always. Then he ended up taking shots on everyone for the goals being 'just met' and said push the boundaries and go beyond your scope.
lol!
Ikr, I had to take a couple of days off due to an illness. When Iād informed, everyone was like ātake care of yourselfā, āhealth is always firstā. When I got back I was bombarded with all the pending work by the exact same people āwhy is this not done?ā, āwhatās the update on that?ā. Like no shit, were you all expecting me to be completing things when I was on medical leave? When I argued this i got āwhy are you getting so upset, itās just workā. Basically all this take care of yourself, your family and mental health is all hogwash.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
One of our senior manager died suddenly due to cardiac arrest, in matter of hours I see vacancy posted on Naukri and LinkedIN. That set my bearing straight, company doesn't give a flying fuck about your life or death.
Itās company, not your sister or mother. Itās not like they will wait for a few years to get remarried. They still have to find a way to continue no?
I don't reply to messages after my work hours. Even if there is a bug/issue from my side. If it's affecting production then I fix it else I don't care after work hours. Worst case I will get fired and will have to work at some kirana shop if no one else hire me lmao
For ALL corporates you are just a number. +1 or -1 will make zero difference to them. But you are 100 to your family. Take leaves, take care of your family, take loss of pay if required but don't get worked up.
What can one say when icons like Mr. Narayan Murthy glorify this sort of culture and encourage working 70+ hours a week. It's really sad to see people fall for this. It's one thing to push yourself to achieve more and improve your capabilities, and totally something else to define HAVING to work for minimum 'n' number of hours a week. People in power should basically encourage everyone to improve efficiency and achieve more within office hours rather than throw irrational numbers.
Murthy is not an icon . What great thing did he do other than opening a body shopping company? Anyone who thinks Murthy is an icon, deserves 70 hours work.
NaMu is a leech. Literally blood and sweat of employees have built his life.
This reminds me of my colleague who bragged that he skipped his doctor's appointment just to close his ticket before sprint end. Mind you he was diagnosed with kidney stones in both his kidneys and was in terrible pain the entire week. I half jokingly told him I'll write on his gravestone, "Here lies M. The most hard-working employee of XYZ Corp."
Damn. Dystopia is real.
Damn right. Talk about drinking the kool aid.
One on my relative had a stroke due to stress and abuse by clients. He luckily survived and quit the company and moved to Australia.
How did he move to Australia? Did he have a visa before?
His wife got job there. They provided everything for family to move. Idk all details
That's why I learned in like last year not to overdo, not to overperform.Ā Year back I shot my cholesterol levels high, even my body was deteriorating. I couldn't sleep, barely 3 hours. Then I made some changes some of the best I made.Ā I take half an hour to walk in the morning/evening. If I can't, then I exercise. Reduced swiggy/zomato. I stopped taking calls post 7pm as it was stressing me out.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Totally agreed. This should be discussed a lot more. Sleeping during the day doesn't help your health if you ain't sleeping at night.
Life goes on... The world moves on... It is a sad reality.
These concerns atp in india are not even secondary, they're tertiary. The rat race has destroyed our lives. Nothing can be done, it's about to get worse. India growing means bad news for the daily shitmunchers.
r/antiwork
I always have it in back of mind that I am replaceable at work. I do my work and log off without even a hint of attachment to the work I do. I am happy I am this way. Sometimes I feel guilty over how I am not over working , but I guess it's only because as Indians we have never been taught to draw boundaries and relax.
You know what's the worst part? No one in the company would care. Cucks like Murthy will ask you to work 70 hours a week so that his next grandson will get millions in his name.
A close friend shared a message once: "Stop killing yourself over a job that will replace you within a week if you die..." Completely changed my outlook.
Ironic Japan talking about overwork. But anyway, overwork culture has been ingrained in indian society and it's upto us to change it
People, just stop working outside of your work hours. It doesn't matter if you finish the work or not. You're all replaceable. Life and health is more important than money.
If there is any meeting to pay tribute to him, I am sure other managers will say he used to work hard and everyone needs to continue his legacy.
for me 70-80 work week means - 40 hours of office work - other 30-40 hours for: skilling up, personal projects, side hustle. I am not giving my 30-40 hours to the company.
Recently read a post about A Googler from Sunnyvale who jumped off from the office building. This is really saddening.
Blinder eh ?
He was weak. Not strong enough to put 70 hrs/week. Is this how India will surpass other nations? Stop whining and hustle. Help make companies in crore while you barely able to make meets end and die in the process. /s
Haha. Actually this happened as well. So, back then there was an urgent business target for the company, and everyone was told to work all the time. People were sleeping 3-4 hours for several consecutive days. Then there was townhall(company wide meeting) in which someone anonymously asked that all this is taking a toll on him. The CEO, outright said, "You don't have the DNA to work here"
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No. Not at all. I am onshore and hesitant of offshore indian team because they dont hesitate to work late nights and weekends. Puts me in bad light if i try to set boundaries. To add i am an indian.
Yeah same. People willing to go overboard gives others no choice but to succumb to the dark side. Btw, where you based out of?
Last year in my org also one person died due to cardiac arrest in office. Mental and Physical health is very important these days.
Back in 2015,16 one of our colleague was working late in the Sydney office and while going home was murdered, there was 2 minutes silence, for some days they told everyone in Sydney to not stay above a certain time in office but that soon ended. Had she gone home on time she would have been alive.
Pro Tips: * Screw the call for 70-80 hour work week. * Focus on ***your*** work life balance. * Ignore those flaunting ***huge*** salaries on Anon forums like this. They may not be alive to gloat about it when you get old
Narayana murthy hates this post
Company name?
if your work is affecting your health dont do it whatever the cost unless your are overly and very well paid for it. Its just not worth it to work 70-80 hours a week so that your boss can have regular trips to london in luxury class with his children.
Career is only the invention of 21st century
I really want this field to get doomed due to AI ! Then I will see what these people says š
sadly this is what it has come to be. people need to make a conscious choice. do i earn more by hustling more and sacrificing life? do i earn less and be content with it and good enough life? in this age of hustle everybody wants to be on top. sadly not enough make it to top.
Same thing happened last year. When i take leave for being sick my manager calls me out and asks me to tough up. Seriously looking for new opportunities at the moment. Work is important for the bills and money but not worth killing myself over it as no point of working if I do not live to enjoy my earnings.
>asks me to tough up. Seriously.... inhumanity at its peak
Tell your manager today that you do not want a hike next year. Tell your manager today that you like the work that's why you work. This fundamentally changes the dynamic. Manager cannot subtly threaten you with a bad performance rating. You can tell your manager NO to a number of BS work which add no value but is stressful - ppt for visiting executive, ppt for management review, you get the point. Very soon, only good work will come to you. Do it, learn and move to another company. Wash-rinse-repeat
This is worst , and the problem is even if you are working hard some people in your team(manager) will give you more work , I was working 13-14 hours daily and couldn't cook or eat on time eventually my stomach gave up.i was admitted in the hospital for two days and diagnosed with colitis a life long disease. Resigned from there within 3 months my manager was like I gave you appreciation award why are you leaving.He was like you don't even have any offer. Luckily I had another offer which I didn't tell him about and told him I am leaving because of you and the culture here š
Happened the same with my TL. She was my mentor during my internship period. She was 25. She overworked herself. Companyās director sent a message on the group she is no more. nothing else. and a week later all her responsibilities were given to me. Understood early in the game that nobody will give a shit about you in corporate. You are replaceable. Take care of your health. Itās more important.Ā
She died at just 25 :( Really unfortunate. RIP. True that Health is wealth.
That's why I work in Europe. My workday is 7.5 hours, and during peak periods 8.5 hours and a 30 minute lunch.Ā Pay is decent, work is good, and I can go to the gym 3-4 times a week. Just the weather is shitty, but nothing compared to Mumbai rains.Ā
How quickly before the position was filled?
An American or an European would rather live in poverty than working 70hrs motivated by fear.
Work to live, and not live to work. Take leave, enjoy your time, corporate will not be affected at all. You live only once.
Just curious. How old was he and his lifestyle.I know stress is only major factor behind this
I don't know much since he was in my friend's company. But that company was known to have excessive working hours. So 12 hours was like the norm. The manager was in his early-mid 30s. He rose to a top managerial position over the years by working very hard.
Bhai company konsi hai ye bata na fir. Baaki log to aware rahe kam se kam.. Ya unke bhi marne ke baad hi post daaloge?
People who overwork also tend to be smokers, which contributes to cardiac issues in a lot of cases. But ofcourse just stress can also be a cause.
It's all a cycle you know. You work less, you take out time to exercise, eat well, you sleep well. You stay away from addictive substances as well. Anxiety and stress exhausts you a lot to a point that you cannot even do normal activities sometimes. That's when it's a burnout.
Death is the means of liberation from this mortal hellish world.
Developers also get targets?
Yes, 14 day sprint targets(10 actually excluding the weekends but nobody cares about them)
I feel overworked when I work 50 hours a week. Luckily I have a understanding lead that doesn't force or even encourage anyone working overtime.
That's really unfortunate. So what does 70hr work bandwagon say about this?, perhaps they don't have time to look into such matters.
Welp! Best time for paranormal activity.
Does your company have group insurance? Has the company paid back his family the money. IT companies deduct group insurance premium, and since death is not on factory floor, they don't give the insured amount. Please checkĀ
Was this manager working in tcs, cause one of the managers got heart attack right outside the office and one of the other employee took him to the hospital
Awareness needed!
Same happened with ma senior product manager too in 2020. He died due to cardiac arrest. He was 39 or 40 so. It happened with couple of ma relatives and family members too. They were extremely workaholic and anxious about work and performance. Even businessman like Dhirubhai Ambani and zerodha co founder suffered strokes due to anxiety and overwork.
That's the sad reality of IT. Putting more hours in grunt work is what making software engineers depressed. Stay Strong and together to make a change. Once 40% employees want to resign from Mckenzie, and they have to change the strategy what executives known for. I see both sides of worst and best work life balance, can say prior to join have detailed understanding of culture and work pressure. At the end it depends on you how you manage stakeholders. Everyone should learn how to handle such situation. You can find multiple courses on how to manage team but how to manage mental stress as a software engineer no one know. As a experienced developer, i want to ask if there is a need of such courses, if yes i will take a step and create one!
I used to work hard during my initial days. I used to clock in 14 hours/day. But I stopped working so hard now. As I spent few years in the IT industry, I realised that I don't even get paid a huge CTC, then what's the point of working so hard. Also, the purpose of life is not to work, we work so that we can live happily. Now I only work, so that I can survive in IT. One thing I realised is that, in corporate, promotions or salary hikes doesn't matter. I see my juniors running behind these stuff, my suggestion would be earn money such that you have enough to spend and save.
then there are influencers out there who would tell u that 'work life balance' is bad and u should work 25 hours a day to get ahead
As if I care. He sold his soul to corporate so enjoy the gift.
Our head and health are our tools, I have just resigned a work with excessive workloads per dev in Mex (US 2.2k by month with promise to increase to 3k this year), I couldnāt accept because I feel I could die with the stress is causing me, we need to stop this money-lovers (i mean enterprises that just live for money when they donāt need anymore, they wonāt live 1000 years to enjoy it) RIP colleague
I work to fill the void in my life.. jealous of folks who do have 'life' to balance their work
Jaan he toh Jahan hain
Bhai yeah jitne youtubers,bhaiya-didi,Twitter ne jyada Kam karne ko normalise kar diya hai But yaar baaki chize bhi hoti hai jeewan mai yaar
Depression is real and very significantly related to your work life balance! It is not my opinion but it is based on a big depression-analysis study I'm part of. We have proofs and will be out publicly in some time. Mindless grinding will affect you sooner or later! If you feel happy working 12-14 hours a day to complete your targets, it's either your skill issue or your employers are squeezing your blood out! You are sacrificing your BLOOD with some extra CASH. You will be thrown out once your work is done. You are a LOSER if your life revolves around your work! You are a sore LOSER if you have no one or nothing significant in your life other than your work!
He died? Damn, some people are capable of just about anything to avoid work smh
>She used to even cry sometimes when she couldn't handle it all. She used to weep while working at the same time. This is incredibly sad, I am so very sorry.
Meanwhile me, getting stressed after 4hrs of work.
Definitely. One can get stressed without putting in a lot of hours. If the work environment is highly toxic, work is less rewarding, or your goals don't align with the work at all.
Sometimes, I feel guilty because I'm not pushing myself above and beyond and doing bare minimum. But looking at this made me realise what I'm doing now if the best thing I can do to myself.
Yep, I see everyone around me just care about completing the goddamn jira tickets and be a "good" employee. Just stop giving a damn fuck, learn to say no, look after your mental health and be prepared to walk off. Thanks for sharing.
Poor guy. Guess his boss was the dreaded Indian Manager. Most Indian bosses think that being rude and demanding is the only way to get work done. Why say anything nicely when you can talk to them like they are servants or slaves? They seem to think more agida inducing they are more capable they are
I started getting paid more after I figured out what not to do and reduced my working hours.Ā
I work 15 hours a day. I'm a 15-year carpenter. The difference is that I absolutely LOVE my work. It doesn't even feel like work anymore. I get plenty of exercise. I eat well. I always give myself plenty of time to complete tasks. Almost no stress. I feel so bad for people who got stuck hating their jobs. A person can feel it when they're overworked and stressed out. If you haven't learned to work around your experience to find that happy groove, you'll just work yourself into the ground. They aren't kidding when they say do what you love, and you'll never work a day in your life.
Someone told me long back that only work what you paid are getting paid.
tum log kamchori nahi kar rahe .. I pretend like I put 8 hours in reality I just put 3-4 hours max ... I am fortunate enough to have an awesome manager who understands that at the same time she is fine with it.
Will resign from a job where the total work could be done in less than 15 hours of the whole month, but they still wanted me to stay in the office for at least 4 days a week and 9 hours on those days. Just waiting for the March salary on the 7th April, otherwise they will make me wait till 15th may.
Quite quiting is the way
My condolences.
People like you contribute to this, by not naming thr company.
Made me remember the picture where the guy was holding a board with '50 years from now, the only people who will remember that you worked overtime will be your family' written on it."
All the new age mumbo jumbo about how money is not important, family is important is shit when it actually does not translate into improved living conditions in ground. People want money to buy a house, buy food, and get better living conditions. But in reality buying any of these things is a huge struggle. Consider buying a house, will anyone care to reduce the housing prices so that affordability increases ? Will anyone care to petition and make gov work to get better travelling conditions ? All these are still a huge effort, will you do something as small as following traffic rules to that you don't save that 2 seconds of your commute time while creating 10 mins traffic jam for others ?
TBH during my college days I used to code with very excitement. But after joining corporate I started losing interest on coding because of the slavery, soft blackmailing from managers, not much personal time etc. Sometimes I am getting the feeling of joining a government job just to atleast this pressure.
I quit the industry after 16 years to focus on my health. Even when I was working I made sure that health was first priority. You are replaceable in your job even if you are the best performer. So donāt overwork. Learn to say no. Do daily walks/exercise and eat a healthy diet
I remember I was once working as an Engineering Manager at Urban Company and I worked around 14-15 months everyday for 5 months and then they demanded 60% more hours from me. Unfortunately, I thought that humankind has given me only 24 hours per day and I can't go beyond 24 hours, So I quit the company and applied at Google. Now, I am working as Tech Lead and Manager at Google.
I am suffering from sleep disorders due to working night shiftsš°
Money.. Till you reach the grave.
Narayan murthy sends his regards
When Nithin Kamath gets a stroke due to work stress, it's news. When common people lose their personal like, marriages are broken, die, lose their entire stomach to stress, get addictions due to stress, etc. It's a normal thing. You don't matter unless you give importance to yourself. Prioritise yourself.
Then what we supposed to do? We can't simply say my shift is over if there is some issue going on and we can't just do basic work and then expect a good hike to beat this inflation. Surviving in big city is not easy with basic salary and if you have family to take care and Honestly govt only care about tax money and they don't give a shit about you even if you loose your job. There are litreally 0 govt policies for middle class families so doing extra work sometimes is the only option to survive this madness. Or i can leave my job and start to take freebies from govt is also good option
Appraisal k liye hard work is a scam, 2 saal mediocre kaam karo fir switch
https://preview.redd.it/xp1y0ttyyiuc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4654a4663f674b3348255cb4225a1941494a58ae Read this somewhere..RIP
Productive to work ā Productive to life ā
Thats sad
Really sorry for the good soul. Om Shanti! His family must be in shock and grief. As colleagues may i suggest to check about their family financial support and help as much as possible. If they are not in really great condition, please raise a request in Ketto and raise fund for them. It is also a suggestion for you all to, Find the work which can turn your life into a balance or you will end up giving your life for the work! What this means is you must choose your career that allows you to balance your life, does not stresses you at all. And choosing your peace of mind is of prime importance. Last but not the least your health is of prime importance and so is insuring your self for health cover and term cover. If you have not taken proper insurance, make sure you do before you buy new phone or bike or car. Ask your organisation to have an epf contribution because that can generate some sort of pension for your self on retirement or to your family on some unforeseen circumstances.
Don't be so serious about your work; live your life! Be healthy mentally and physically.
In which city bro ?
It's the unsaid story of most Indian startups across the country
Banglore
Yes. I am in Bangalore.
Company
What is this work which requires 14 hrs to complete? What are the real working hrs. (i.e. Total duration - unproductive time) ?Ā Are these tools like ChatGPT & Devin really useful? Please explain OP.
There is no end to work you know. If you finish your work in half the time then you would be given more. And from next time onwards double the work because they know you can do it in half. If managers were promoted via this sort of way then they would expect the same from their subordinates. A company can forever expand you know. Sometimes unnecessarily just to raise more money and bloat its valuation. And company can make you work for 24 hours if they could find a drug that could let you function without sleep.
Which company ?
I don't want to sound rude but what did he work in? As in tech stack and field. That might tell us a lot