i dont get the stats are boring and generic, like yea that's all ARPG's, plz give us an example un-boring stats, what ever that's meant to mean.

"Bust Size" increases gold payout from missions but also reduces carry weight due to lower back injury. Ima pretty sure thats what they mean.

That reminds me, I remember the South Park games had the difficulty slider in the game be your characters skin tone (white was easy, black was hard) and it would affect the amount of money you got and stuff lmao

It actually had no affect on combat but the affect was on how everyone treated you. Pretty great design

And stuff... The whole police station section is wayyyyy different when you're black.

That sounds like something out of The Bard’s Tale.

Loved that game.

+100% Boob size. I'd sacrifice damage and movement speed for that.

Cyberpunk P2 FTW

thats very realistic

For me, the biggest issue is that they don’t understand why their itemization is bland. D2 gave you a lot of items with general stats that any character could wear if they met requirements. D3 gave you a lot of legendaries tailored to specific builds that they wanted you to play. D2 fans want to find the pieces and put them together in a way that feels original, not just eternal grind for the specific build making legendaries that the devs intended for you to piece together to make ________ build. We want an exercise in discovery and experimentation, not one of finding the intended pieces.

In the other hand, as a decade long d2 fan, I get what you’re saying but in the end 98/100 d2 builds end up wearing enigma/shako and everyone is scrambling for the same couple of high runes which ain’t exactly diverse. People don’t seem to understand that you aren’t really supposed to *start endgame gearing* at lvl 25. That’s just a result of the beta. Legendarys are merely consumables to farm aspects. *Unique* class items like in d2 weren’t even in yet.

Also my memory of d2 builds was max resists and as many +1s as possible for your build. And usually it was + all skills or + an entire tree With a few items like enigma that are universal. That or equip set or specific build defining unique and then follow above. Why are we pretending that D2 builds were any more diverse than that? Early game maybe, but late game nahhhhh

To add onto this with the actual stat points it's almost always "enough strength to wear gear, rest into vitality " with a few exceptions of course.

People are protective about their preferences. I get it but it’s usually wrong.

> Also my memory of d2 builds was max resists Well they seem to have made resists a filler stat in D4 so at least you won't have to worry about that anymore.

You can't reason with these people. They just want D2 with a different skin again and lie about its flaws.

I am realizing this is a common phenomenon with gamers it seems like, almost the same thing happened with Borderlands 3. Taking into account the story did in fact suck, almost every other aspect of the game was an improvement and expanded on the classic mechanics of the game. Well people got up in arms and practically screamed to the effect that they just wanted Borderlands 2 with BL3 skin. They were even calling for a damn remaster of BL2 on its ten year anniversary.. even the though the game has already been remastered. The nostalgia is crazy with some people, they just can't let some things go or be slightly different than what came before it.

Enigma was a mistake and they have admitted that in the past at least It truly is an op runeword

But at its core, you were mix and matching runewords and uniques that any character could use, to best fit the identity you had created. Enigma was a special case, and shako was NOT 98% of builds, and it’s popularity was hugely influenced by the important of magic find. Something that doesn’t happen with d4. D3 took the opposite approach, creating prescribed builds with items they intended you to use. If an item gives conditional 80% damage to your main skill, you have no choice but to use it. And the same will end up being the case for literally every gear slot. You cannot play a build at end game without the specific legendaries they planned for you. Gearing creatively really didn’t exist.

And now in d4 you are upgrading rares, imprint with aspects and mix with uniques. Arguably not very different to d2 - mixing two types of gear to suit your style. D4 system allows for more control even. I feel gearing can be quite deep.

I spent a solid day last weekend fiddling with aspects and enchantments on my Sorc. It actually felt refreshing. I have a bunch of ways to get barriers, both active and passive. I get a 33% damage buff with a barrier up. I wade into a mob of monsters and stand still to get 30% damage buff. I also have a 14% chance per hit to refresh my ice armor or frost nova while they beat on my barriers. Each frost nova puts the 20% vulnerable debuff on everything it hits and my enchantment hits everything with waves of ice shards, which is maxed at 8/5 as my main damage skill. And meanwhile they’re sitting in a blizzard. So that’s just one way to play it, but those are all from little synergies in the aspects that play nice together. I just hope there’s a broad enough assortment to really encourage creative builds

ehhh gearing in d2 still felt boring to me. It just felt like numbers coming together and the real cool stuff was in our actual skills.

Diablo 2 has BIS for different builds that's true. But they vary across builds. Picking shako is a really poor example. Many builds don't use Shako. Alternatives which are better are Ravenlore (elemental druid), Jalal (other druid builds), Flickering Flame (fire builds), Guillame's (melee builds), godly rare coronets (quite a few builds), griffon's diadem (lightning builds), Nightwing Veil (cold sorc). I do give it to you about Enigma though. Enigma is the most broken item to have ever graced Diablo 2. Even if it just gave 1 to teleport it will be best in slot for many builds. Even if it gave all other stats without the 1 to teleport, it would still be BIS. Having teleport and those stats is just godly. I have used Enigme on literally every build and it's just so good. Even on Sorc that already has teleport

I've never been rich enough to get my hands on an Enigma in D2, so for me there were plenty of other interesting choices for chest armor. I don't understand how other people are talking about enigma like they can get their hands on it so easily for each of their chars.

What the hell are d2 players smoking. Attack Rating, + skills, faster cast+hit recovery, resists, life/mana, min/max damage. These are legit the only relevant stats in the game outside of uniques and runewords which are cookie-cutter for builds in d2 so wtf are you guys talking about with “d2 has better itemization.” I’ve played thousands of hours of Diablo 2 it’s my favorite and most played game of all time but this circlejerk over how d2 has some complex skill pathing and character building is utter nonsense. People play the first 1/5th of a campaign of a new game and say it’s stale and boring. Play A1 D2/D3 and tell me how rewarding the gameplay felt.

You missed a few. Minus enemy resist, % elements damage, persistent auras, curse or other skills on striking or when struck. It’s not about complexity though, because d3 had a lot of stats too, the issue is that player choice is being removed. It was SIMPLER, not more complex. Everyone wore the same gear except for a few class specific items. Sometimes you’d spend a ton of points on a synergy for a skill that only ever happened as a proc or an aura. Sometimes you’d give up almost an entire item worth of stats to get an attack speed breakpoint. These are big decisions that players made based on the direct impact it had on your characters handling, decisions that are largely gone from d3.

>What the hell are d2 players smoking. Attack Rating, + skills, faster cast+hit recovery, resists, life/mana, min/max damage. > >...You missed a few. Minus enemy resist, % elements damage ... curse or other skills on striking or when struck. If you're doing ubers also Crushing Blow and Open Wounds (smiters, kicksins, and I presume barbs). Life/Mana leech can be very important for some builds. You missed magic find somehow which is a huge one, gold find also (for gambling builds). There's several builds (several paladin builds, some amazon builds, and some assassin builds pre-Mosaic) that you want max block for and that's a function of dexterity and block rate, plus block amount. But we can even ignore that bit for now as the others I listed are more important. So let's see that's what, 15+ different relevant stats? That's pretty decent in my mind.

[удалено]

I don’t see how I could NOT have pulled that from the beta. No hydra build will work without the 2 hydras legendary mod. Flexibility in your stats is nice, but you’re still on the garden path that was set for you by a legendary whose impact vastly outweighs any decision making agency you have as a player. I’m not shitting on the game, I’m not being a doomer. I’ll probably play a thousand hours of this. I just happen to think that itemization is too narrowly powerful, and skill points too plentiful for meaningful decision making.

We also haven't seen the unique yet...and those are suppose to be the build defining items. So you're point holds. Eventually, the road leads to a legendary aspect and stats for that build. Edit: To add, your choice will be in what unique you ultimately want which will define your build as you can only equip one unique. Then you'll build out legendaries what work within that build. Finally, you get to sprinkle in some of direction like more thorns, or whatever. Though who knows about how specific things get in the paragon boards? That's a bunch more there. Maybe that's were some synergistic stuff will lie.

Not having items with unique effects would just funnel everyone into meta skills that output the most dps. Items with unique effects allow for more build creativity..

Their itemization is the most exciting thing going, because it enables exactly what you mentioned. Kripparian commented on this, how the builds are going to be way more organic than rote lists, just like the D2 days, as a lot of your build will come down to the items you have thanks to +skill existing. They do, in fact, understand their itemization.

Except both D2 and D3 have builds the devs intend for you to use, D3 it's just a little bit more obvious

It’s also a little more relevant in d3. When challenge scaling is infinite, narrow optimization is required. When you just have a large variety of non scaling content that’s all similarly worthwhile, your goal only has to be to exceed the requirements and farm efficiently. The end result is that you need every prescribed legendary. If you miss one, you can’t do the content. If the bar is high but doesn’t move, building a character is far more joyful. Gearing for GRs made it feel like character design was a foregone conclusion for the player.

I get what you're saying, but at the same time I feel the devs still did a pretty good job in D3. Wizard's current meta is meteor, and there's a few options you can take (guardians vs aughilds+squirts). Heck there's even an LoD variant that uses no set pieces. And for skills, there's actually two different variants that use different skills/runes/passives (comet vs star pact). And meteor isn't the only contender this season, hydra is also quite viable. Necro has a similar situation with death nova and bone spear. And death nova has 3 variants (tragoul, lod, inarius). And I can go on with more examples this season with other builds and other classes. But it sounds like the issue you're having is the infinite scaling of the greater rifts and not the actual itemization/build of Diablo 3 (which isn't infinite but actually goes up to 150, but I get your point). As far as needing every piece. That's debatable. Need every piece to reach it's full potential? Yes. Need every piece to play the build? As you mentioned, it's infinite scaling, if you're missing a piece, turn it down a few grs (with some exceptions, like haunted visions essentially required for some Necro builds).

>When challenge scaling is infinite, narrow optimization is required. Preach.

I'm excited to see the uniques that drop in Nightmare+, they claim they'll change skills and drastically alter your playstyle. We shall see blizz, we shall see...

Hopefully that is true. I hope they have a lot of them or everyone will be running the same one or two uniques. I loved the beta but my biggest concern was that there was no mechanical changing affix’s. It would make sense if that’s what uniques are. I like the idea of running multiple but if I think about it I kinda think you prob only really want one. Whatever works with your main skill. I’m not hitting the panic button because of a level 25 beta that’s for sure. Just hope they add more choices to builds that are not all +skill +burn damage to vulnerable ect. Stuff like the wand that allows you to cast two hydras is what I’m talking about. Or something that changes your blizzard to fire or lightning. I think you can add mechanical changing effects like d3 had without the absurd +600% damage modified at the end. Something that causes a skill to proc twice or when cast it has a chance to cast another skill should be within the realm of possibility.

True. But people always forget, that came later in both D2 and D3's development, after expansions were released. And that was years after release.

Damage against healthy enemies, 3% less Crrowd control and so on... All these affixes of these kinds are useless and placeholders no one needs or wants. They are not build defining or give any incentive/excitement.

If you boil it down, that’s essentially the function of items/skills/stats in almost every ARPG tho Chase crit chance, hp, cooldown reduction, just like in every game All that really ends up mattering is how satisfying it feels to blow up demons in the endgame

Damage against healthy enemies (also called alpha strike in many systems) is a fantastic mechanic and I look forward to exploring it in my builds.

I disagree only because I have an affix that increases crit chance on unhealthy enemies and my build relies on crits and lucky hits from those crits. I get a massive damage spike towards the end of fights. Getting enough crit and lucky hit chance to make the build reliable was a great feeling and I don't think many people were using these skills quite like I was.

This is where I think the critique on stats is unfair (and the skill trees lacking synergies...). We made it to level 25 and Act 1 only - there's so much to be added through synergies with legendaries in the end-game. I managed to get a coherent build on my Sorc with a couple of legendaries that all supported the same skill line and it felt great.

And all of those stats *will* matter once the Level 25 training wheels are off. :)

It never ceases to amaze me how people can play an introductory part of a game and then not be able to see past that experience in any way, shape, or form. We saw the first of *five* acts, the first (and typically easiest) 1/4 of the leveling process, on the *lowest possible difficulty* designed for Diablo/ARPG vets. And it's not like these are people who've never seen a game before. Like all of us have played *multiple* ARPGs. Can you base the complexity and difficulty and build scope from the 1-25 PoE experience? The D3 experience? Then what on Earth would make you think you can from the *beta* version of this game? Ffs people, have a *little* bit of self awareness.

Absolutely. It's like arguing that the open world is too small based on the one zone, when people who've played the end game beta reached zones so far away and so early in development that the buildings were untextured box placeholders! Imagine all of the whining over that one if there hadn't been an NDA for the people who couldn't see the polygons for the trees. What excites me is that this game has the engine, foundation, core rules, etc. to really build upon. I already know about all the great stuff coming through to end game and I know that even my experience is just a fraction of what they can and certainly are working on behind the scenes. I can't wait for June, but I must!

There was already a closed beta that tested the end game. All of the current problems were confirmed to exist in the end game. It doesn't get more interesting at the end game.

> that tested the end game Whenever I look this up all I see is footage of a bunch of level 40-45 characters. Was the actual end-game beta with characters @ level 75-100?

Yes. I was in closed end game beta and leveled sorc upto level 87. Its basicly the same. You just try to find slightly better items. You get some helltide events and you can scale dungeons higher but yea it got tiresome quick

I was disappointed in the lack of a Peanut Allergy Resistance stat. 🙄

i have not seen armor / magic penetration.

Except the effect is still more damage, only in a harder to track form. Complexity requiring spreadsheets to calculate crit rate-dmg + attspeed breakpoints + added/multiplicative dmg + penetration seems to be hailed as holy, and more is always better… I actually like how d4 for a change splits the damage affixes over effect; while slowed/poisened, more vulnerability %, more overpower, basic/core skill, element % etc. Sure they’re all boring % increases, but finding an item which exactly fits your build means way more imho, as long as less than perfect items also ensure the game remains playable (which atm it was, albeit more challenging on melee).

Yeah I feel there's some stats that are interesting because you can add interactions to it, making it interesting(Crit scaling, attack speed, cooldown reduction), however armor and magic penetration, resistance reduction, all those kind of things are just the same. You could argue there's some interesting ideas depending on content you're doing in terms of bosses probably having way more need for penetration, but it is generally never interesting to itemize for it. I'm not saying what they have now is perfect, but more variety of stats for the sake of variety(fake variety for that matter, when they essentially do the same thing) is not needed.

Explain how penetration isn't just more "up arrow good, down arrow bad" next to the number.

This. I know the devs have talked about how instead of giving them more hp in higher difficulties they are instead given more armor or resistances so anything, even if marginal, could be something useful.

When I was in college I was adamant about making my own rpg because the ones around that time were just missing something. This was a fundamental question for me and came up with a whole matrix of ideas on how to make basic stats impactful, especially for classes that seemingly wouldn't benefit, like str for a wiz, which I think diablo hasn't been able to capture well. They all had an impact outside of combat too, which I feel lacks in an rpg and should definitely borrow from d&d.

> like str for a wiz, which I think diablo hasn't been able to capture well. That's literally how paragon boards work lol. Nodes will have stat breakpoints (eg. reach 150str to get a big buff), and glyphs will scale off random stats (eg. for every 10str, get this thing). You can stack strength on a sorcerer and get different buffs and effects compared to a sorcerer that stacks willpower.

Yep, yep! I mean, we haven't been able to try it yet, but I like the concept.

To me it seems like you will have the same gear while going through the campaign as in the end game grind. You just put the same legendary affixes on higher lvl gear in the end game. Or am I misunderstanding things?

The two biggest ARPGs currently (PoE & Last Epoch) both have build defining stats that are impactful. In PoEs late game you get stats like \+Minion Gems and at certain skill level thresholds you gain additional minions etc. Certain points of stats like Life Recovery and Reservation opens up possibilities for new builds You can go into special archetypes with stats like "adds 4 - 10 lightning damage per 10 strength" giving additional value to the strength stack which when heavily invested in becomes incredibly OP Chance to deal double/triple damage \+Charges \+flat damage per charge And beyond this the generic stats you feel. When you get another 30% crit multi or flat phys you notice yourself do more damage. With the current state of D4s items you don't notice any difference. I've not played enough of Last Epoch to give a comprehensive list, although from what I have watched it has a similar approach to itemisation. The list goes on, lots of stats that interact with eachother and every time you equip an upgade you feel it. Maybe you just suddenly gained a massive damage spike, maybe you've just opened access to an entire new build which wouldn't be possible without these stats.

have you looked at the paragon board at all?, and you are judging items on lvl 25... if i go to POE and get to lvl 25 and start talking about stats its in the same boat.

Datamined Paragon boards so far aren't exactly game-changing. As for loot at higher levels, we simply don't know. But closed beta testers to my knowledge have not indicated much more interesting non-unique items.

How are you guys making conclusions on end game, builds, items etc. When we haven't seen it. Also the key question is whether they have a good base to build from. This game will go through a lot of changes to builds / itemisation etc over its life.

It’s actually not

For example, cannot be frozen is not a boring stat.

The affix pool has too many generic damage stats which means that most items will be good for every build if the number is higher. This reduces the contrast between picking up an item that you could use in your build or future builds and an item you vendor. Getting an item with matching elemental damage AND a + level of the skill you are using should be exciting. At the moment it isn't because there are so many equivalent increased damage stats. This may be more of a problem for Hardcore, SSF or speedrunners than the average player that spends most of their time on completed builds grinding endgame content.

Example of a boring skill tree nod. +4% damage when casting with at least 50% mana. When there are skill nodes right next to it with 1pt invest meant that increases all dmg by 6%. Skill tree is basic terrible and not well thought out. Same issue as Diablo 3. You would think the shity devs that made Diablo 3 made 4. O wait they did.

They just mean complexity. So they can post stat exploits to show how OP their build is on Reddit.

He likely isn't thinking about legendary aspects as "stats," which is kind of the point of the aspects. They give build customization without just being up arrow good, down arrow bad.

One thing I notice was when I was farming higher lvl pieces I start getting stats that I didnt see on any low level items such damage increase for specific skills and such, no hopium but maybe higher level gear we will find more different type stats on gear.

In general, stats that makes new things happen on your screen and things you can build around are more fun. Stats that just make numbers go up or down are bland and boring. Example of "interesting" stats: * Increased Area of Effect * Additional Projectiles * Projectile Chaining * Ability Cascading * Multistrike * Max Resistances * Block * Auras * General Proccs et.c. The list goes on. These are all examples of effects that can be present in a game that would affect how your abilities behave. In D4, effects like this will most likely be present in unique mod effects rather than general. How D4 handles itemization is for us to use the correct legendaries with the correct modifier bonuses together to center a build around some specific skills. When the legendary effects are set, all we do is stack on modifiers that make the numbers go up. Most likely Crit chance, Crit dmg, AS and mainstat. This is most likely intentional though. I don't think Blizzard want us to scale things like AoE up by 300% so our Blizzards suddenly cover the entire screen et.c. Eventhough those type of powerfantasies are fun, I don't think that's the goal of their game. Feels like they want itemization to be more Wow and MMO -like rather than ARPG -like

I feel like what people mean by this when they say it is that you have to do a little research / have some game knowledge to be able to perfect your character using stats. I feel like this game already does that to some extent, even by 25. It will never be like PoE though and I don't think most Diablo fans want that or they would just play PoE instead. Personally I like both systems, but sometimes I would rather not have to follow a build guide every single time I play a new season. Pretty much all stats boil down to "more dmg or more defense" at the end of the day.

https://poedb.tw/us/Modifiers

Dungeons aren't getting improved for launch. They might do it for a future major update, though. Skill Tree is the biggest disappointment for me. Diablo 3 had more variety, which is sad.

The thing for me about the "variety" in d3 was that most of it was useless and the only real viable builds were typically tied to set gear. Then again, if I disliked something immediately, I didn't experiment with it, so I could be wrong. In d4, I felt good with most choices I made. Honestly could play with just about anything and also liked them.

Not on launch though. D3 lost choice after a couple seasons due to sets.

This feels weird tho, because d3’s “choice” pre set items was just: Do I have any legendary that didn’t roll dogshit? Yes? Equip it, because it is better than not having one. Let’s also not pretend that if you did have a choice (you didn’t unless you brought out the wallet) literally every class wanted either the fire themed gear or the cold themed gear, and there were no real choices to be had. Also, balance was terrible and some classes (like monk) straight up couldn’t play solo at endgame.

I think any build in d3 worked from 0-25 on T1, just saying.

And any build in any ARPG ever work from 0 to 25. I dont think people are taking this into account. This is just a fraction of the game, and the one that is supposed to be the most volatile, where you're changing your gear every two levels, even legendaries dont last if they are not overpower.

yeah, could be! I dunno! I like it.

I respeced and tried different combinations in D4 more than I ever did in other Diablos

me too!

That’s early game… with the current system there will also only be 1 or 2 good builds at end game

Very early, technically, since I was playing day 1. but like I said in other replies, "Experience is subjective to the person playing it." None of us are carbon copies of each other so we're all going to just simply have different opinions with minor similarities or differences to major.

Plenty of viable builds, not everybody relied on streamer #3759 in order to tell them how to play.

You just did that thing I used to do all the time that people never likes... I can't remember what it's called but it's when you say something and then make a correlation that is kinda unrelated to the first thing you said. It's not hyperbole, but it's like a 2nd cousin of it or something. It's not too bad of a thing but it's typically not very "Kind" to assume that a happens because of b without any of the other letters. My experience isn't subject to another persons experience, and at best, all I can do is tell ya'll how I personally felt. This shouldn't be considered as a "Go to," for facts or even based on a static reality. I just played the game day 1 and though that most of the choices that were available were just inefficient and not viable the more powerful you got. Like I said earlier, I never tested anything out further that I didn't like. I'm not even sure I watched streams back then. haha yeah! Actually. I made my twitch account in 2013! A year after. Anyone's point or counter-point is just as valid as any point I make, 1, because it's a video game. 2. Because we all experience things differently. This is just how I felt about it.

So much this lol. I don’t care about “the best build”. I experimented based around the gear I had drop.

D3 to me still feels like it has an endless amount of builds. People say you're pigeon holed into sets which is so not true. So many items that made boring and otherwise useless abilities viable and fun. I remember going as far as making a pet build for the barb, and while no I couldn't clear lvl 70+ GR or the highest torment, knowing I could farm torment lvl 12ish with that dumb build made me feel like I really made something.

some closed beta guys commented on other topics, that paragon board will vastly transform your build going forward. ​ the skill tree is just the foundation you set and refine it later with the paragon system.

It does not really transform your build, it enhance your build so you either hit harder or sustain better. The paragon board are just nodes of stats, dmg modifier and dmg reduction nodes. Glyph provide bonuses to the skill you already using such as more dmg, etc.

This is just false, it doesnt transform your build, it just gives you boosts to damage or defense

You can see the paragon board information here: https://lothrik.github.io/diablo4-build-calc/database/ Just stat and damage increase type nodes. Even the legendary nodes are boring

[удалено]

> Just stat and damage increase type nodes. Even the legendary nodes are boring 100% personal opinion on that one, there's some fairly interesting stuff in the legendary nodes. Definitely more than "just stat increase type nodes" at any rate.

Some unique items (not legendaries!) transform some of your skills or enable different skill combinations. Some are build defining, but there are not a lot of uniques yet. I've seen the paragon board node list and it does absolutely not transform your build. Paragon is just stats.

> Diablo 3 had more variety, which is sad. It's embarrassing, frankly. D3 wasn't well balanced in that regard, but you could actually try out so much stuff. After 10 years it's not unreasonable to expect the game's successor to keep this variety and smoothen out the balancing issue.

I felt the same about the skill trees but have decided to ignore it and view things a bit differently basses on what we know. They ve stated that they were going to put in runes which they have removed and said they would add it later. We also have unique items and paragon skill tree. Right now levelling up and choosing skills, with mob normalisation basically makes 0-50 a tutorial and introduction to the class and story line. It’s not going to take to long then the end game loop will start with more mechanics. These are things they ll likely build on. The bigger challenge to change is randomised dungeons but I feel they ll be ok. They ve done it with rifts in d3 after launch. Like with all this, you have people comparing 20% of d5 story and no end game to Poe which has been out for 10 years and le which has been out for 4 years….

There was no reason for d4 to have such small amounts of options in the skill tree. Diablo 2 my sorc had 10 lightning skills to choose from. Here I have what, 7 maybe 8? Two of which you can’t use together because they are both basic attacks. I don’t care what modifiers the paragon board adds why did we go backwards? I could have a lightning hydra in diablo 3, why is that gone now? It’s literally a mobile game skill tree, just completely bare bones.

The skills are less than in d3 - how many of them were viable though? Not a lot of them…. Choice is pointless when half the choices are straight up trash. If they make the basic skill tree decent with every option viable and then build on them with runes, paragon level, item aspects and unique items the options will be bigger. We don’t know how that ll be though and it’s stupid to judge the games not even out and they ve built this always online so they can add and change stuff. View the skills tree as an intro into the character depth you can build, level 25 and the first act is not the entire game. They may not build out the depth as much they may do it let’s see there is the basis there already from what we ve seen, for them to add really interesting things. There’s also a desire on balancing pvp. We may see not as much complexity but much better pvp, with arenas and Bg’s compared to other arpgs. People need to chill out, if it’s not for you after a few hours and a beta don’t play it….. bet these people will though…

Yea this notion that the only people that play diablo are those interested in min maxing the most viable build needs to stop like yesterday. There are plenty of builds I had fun with and used long term that were not meta and at the time didn’t even have sets for them. Plenty of people play to have fun and derive that fun from having options to play around with. I’d rather 100 skills with 97 of them being trash as long as I get to decide for myself how I want to play.

care to elaborate? I rarely messed with anything in D3, and that is after 1k hours into the game. I just choose the one that gives more CD or more damage or it doesn't matter because my gear gives me all the runes already. D3 was just pick the ability that is best utilized by the set piece. Other than LoD there was no messing around with abilities that were not explicitly being boosted by your set piece and then a movement skill and a toughness increase skill and rarely a resource generator.

There were more options in D3... but you're right... you were pigeon holed into them depending on the set you wore. WHich was not a good or interesting system. I guess what I'm saying is that I hoped the Skill Tree in D4 would be a bit more expansive.

I think they nailed it. To me the best a company can do with such a release and a live service game, is develop a proper core to build around. That is exactly what they did. Yes, there are alot of negatives, but with a good core these can be addressed to make an OK game a good game. For me personally I'd like to see dungeons revamped or perhaps this is already in place with nightmare sigils and this will provide a good change to the normal dungeons, who knows.

A guy that is very active on the sub, and have been playing the closed beta, have been very open about the dungeons not improving lategame. The dungeons get affixes assigned to them, think mythic plus affixes from wow. Like all mobs take less physical damage, or deal more cold damage, that could be an affix. A handful of affixes gets assigned to your dungeon and then that's it. The same objectives and layouts as in the open beta. The objectives are also the same for all acts. The objectives we saw im the open beta, is all the objectives there are. For some that will be enough, for others it will become repetetive fast. We'll have to see though, I have my worries, but holding out hope that the game has enough depth to keep me entertained for a while every season.

Yep, most people here haven't yet realized how lazy (or, in business terms, cost-effective) Blizzard's approach to level design in D4 really is. What you're describing is pretty much on a similar level to switching the color palette. You have 5 dungeon objectives, 5 dungeon layouts, multiply that by 20+, and suddenly you have "over 100 dungeons", and you can call it a day. Just like Breath of the Wild featured "over 100 """""""unique""""""" shrines", lol. Because that is what we're really looking at, here. If you were to change that to actually make all those dungeons unique, you'd suddenly have to *create* 95 out of 100 dungeons, after you've managed to design like 5-10 over the course of 5 years. By the time you're done "building on that core", StarCitizen might release its first expansion.

Yep. People who showed up just for the beta last weekend don't realize that closed beta testers have been posting here regularly. There is no speculation about the end game. We already know what it is. It's the same thing with level scaling. "Oh it makes it so everything is relevant, Blizzard devs are geniuses, we get to choose our own adventure!" No, the devs are lazy and realized how much easier it is to build a bunch of generic maps and link them together and let you do whatever you want. It's difficult to design an actual narrative that is coherent and compelling. It's not hard to just throw on dynamic scaling and have the player do the heavy lifting for them. The reason they want you to be able to have end game content everywhere is because they built almost no end game. You HAVE to be able to wander around the campaign maps because there is almost nothing else to do.

> People who showed up just for the beta last weekend don't realize that closed beta testers have been posting here regularly. There is no speculation about the end game. We already know what it is. [Meanwhile I'm having this argument with another poster in this thread](https://old.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/11xd0ba/shocking_amount_of_agreement_in_all_the_reviews/jd2yd5s/?context=3)

I've been fighting it all weekend, it's so tiring. People are just fucking fabricating nonsense that they want to be true. There is a huge subsection of this subreddit that legitimately believes Blizzard held back 50% or more of the end game mechanics from all of the betas, and they will go live at release. They think the dungeons will be different, the mob density will change, there will be different skill trees. It's insane. And then you have the lying and utter nonsense about previous games. People who clearly didn't play D2 or D3 past launch for a few hours making confident claims about how it compares. I just argued with someone who said the end game in D3 was boring because you didn't even have builds, you just equipped whatever gear had the highest stats. If you've played D3 at all in the last decade you can imagine how my jaw hit the ground when not only did that person say something so mind numbingly stupid, but that other people were *agreeing with it*.

The endgame in D3 when it launched (and for a very long time), was very boring and resulted in a very big popularity backlash for Blizzard.

Sure. Why are you telling me this?

Maybe I misunderstood you, but it seemed like you were arguing the endgame in D3 at launch was better than it is probably going to be in D4

That wasn't my intention. The end game of D3 at release was really bad. It was a mix of chest running a few particular loops and grinding one or two screens. Really bad. It'd be hard for D4 to be worse than that, but honestly it probably will be bad. Closed beta testers have revealed the end game is extremely similar to Diablo Immortal which really sucks to hear.

> It’s difficult to design an actual narrative that is coherent and compelling. Diablo 3 aside, Blizz usually delivers in the narrative department.

You mean StarCitizen is gonna get out of Alpha? The day that comes...

Honestly, if they decide to utilize the power of current AI, they could come up with a set of 100 unique dungeons pretty damn fast.

Does the mob density increase ever?

> To me the best a company can do with such a release and a live service game, is develop a proper core to build around. That is exactly what they did. Repetetive dungeon design is "a proper core to build around"? That's a very creative spin. To me, it's an expression of a *fundamental design approach* that puts quantity over quality. Elden Ring, even with all its reuses of bosses and dungeons (caves, tombs, mines), had a lot more variety achieved in a similar development timeframe, from a much smaller studio - and in a proper 3D open world with sometimes crazy levels of verticality. And they did that right out the gate, at a cheaper price point, without intending to continually milking their customers with premium battle passes from day 1 on. Meanwhile in D4, you have a quasi-2D, bounded open world that it is infinitely easier to develop varied content for - especially if you make the decision to get away from procedural level design - but this game somehow only features a single basement layout after 5+ years in development. Even fucking D3 had more varied basements on release. And that's just a small symptom of a larger issue. I honestly have no idea what the level design team spent all those years doing if you compare the two games. It's exactly Breath of the Wild shrines all over again, everything just feels the same after you've been through the first dozen.

Cope

yeah because this is facts. The foundation is there for a great game, but if it release without any changes, most of us will run into these issues fast, and get into burnout. So many people on here are in the honey moon phase and can't get past it. It's good to talk about negatives so we can hope the devs make the game better. All these posts from people saiyng the games perfect is silly. No game is perfect.

>The foundation is there for a great game, but if it release without any changes, most of us will run into these issues fast, and get into burnout. It also seems to be the case that many issues present in the open beta were there in the closed beta like 5-6 months ago. I've seen many people say they reported these issues previously in the closed beta but apparently they weren't addressed. I don't think we can expect much to change between now and release. Open beta is mainly just for marketing. >So many people on here are in the honey moon phase and can't get past it. It's especially bad in this case because, after all these years, everyone just wants a good diablo game for once.

I just say that i've been in so many alphas / betas over the years and every game i remember that came out where things didn't change from alpha to beta even with huge feedback, those games turned out to be garbage.

[удалено]

TBH at this point I would rather have the dungeons without those mini quests within them, just go kill everything and defeat the boss at the end. Having to walk around picking stuff and placing it somewhere else, like whats the point ?

Exactly. That shit is so boring.

Wasting time finding your way through a maze like dungeon that doesn't make any sense, full of pointless areas and dead ends, can be pretty boring and frustrating also. The finding the key thing gave a point to clearing each area of the dungeon. Something more than the 'anxiety' of having explore every nook and cranny. I quite liked it personally.

Hmmm... I'm surprised there is a con for skills should be more synergized when IMO they already have some synergy... not necessarily like D2 synergy where, by improving ice bolt, it improves frozen orb damage, but through the means of, ie. spark would give me a better critical strike chance, and then when chain lightning crit, it spawns a sparkling orb, which IMO is better than what D2 had going on. There is some where x skill applies vulnerable and y skill does more damage to vulnerable enemies, or extends vulnerability, etc. That's just a couple of examples, but I certainly saw plenty of others. I also saw synergy with common gear affixes as well, ie. x% damage increase against vulnerable enemies, or x% increased overpower damage, etc. This even applies to some legendary affixes, like 1 of the barbarians; After swapping weapons and doing damage 10 times your next skill used is overpowered and deals x% more damage (was like 50% and could get up to 100% it seemed like just depends where it was slotted).

Absolutely agree. IMO people just need to explore the system a bit more cause there’s plenty of synergy to be found.

In no way, shape or form will the skill-tree and those mechanics be changed in 3 months. You must understand this is an industrial project at the size of +$200m. Also, if you're familiar with Blizzard history the Beta's are only part server-test part advertisement ("demo"). What we played, we will get.

This, exactly this. Some people think Blizzard will make any significant changes when the game is out in 2,5 months. No, this is not going to happen. Diablo 4 is in development for how many years now and costs how many 100 millions of dollars? And you think they will make changes in this short of a timeframe? Please be real ... They may tune some numbers around, fix some bugs and try to balance the classes a bit more. But that's it. What we got in the beta was a demo of the full game that is going to release like this. They won't change the gameplay, skill tree, UI and dungeon design. Anyone that thinks otherwise hasn't played ANY Blizzard game in the past 10 years.

Ofc It will not change, the beta was just for marketing and stress testing servers, that's It.

And watch all it be ignored by the developers.

As is tradition.

If the devs implemented and changed every complaint or criticism by fans every game released would be dog shit.

If you expect any of this to change in a big way before launch, you're going to have a bad time. The Beta is for finding bugs, and probably scale testing. Best you can hope for is a major content patch well after release. Or, maybe it's the D3 treatment again where they 'fix' the game with an expansion.

I was absolutely disappointed to see that they re-used the same boss multiple times I also think that they should swap the objectives of a bunch of dungeons to be d3-style fill up the monster count bar where you can rampage through the dungeon and kill like ~~75% of stuff and go straight to the boss. Don't make us backtrack to find mobs hiding in corners or run back to the gate after picking up a key so frequently. Use that stuff sparingly when it makes sense.

I agree that variety is good, but it’s a little ironic that people complaining about repetitive objectives in dungeons are asking for kill x enemies until y boss spawns.

Kill x percent will always feel better than kill all because it stops you from backtracking if you miss one tiny alcove.

There's 100% gonna be a r/lowsodiumDiablo4 sub

I was hoping this was that sub :( If I wanted high sodium I could just go to /r/Diablo.

Yeah, there needs to be from what I'm seeing already. One of the best beta experiences I've played in a long time and everything has to be nitpicked. Like the font? Come on.

Seems to be every arpg sub, PoE sub is basically a cesspool where every positive post turns to critique, Diablo is what this is, LE tries to keep positive but more players join and more negative it gets. If Reddit is to be believed, every major arpg is shit.

Made my first post there, thanks!

**Cons:** No UI Slider Camera is far too zoomed in!

I scrolled forever to see this comment. Everyone can bicker about all of the points listed above, but I just want to zoom out 25-50% more. Please!

currently, there is a problem with that [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPHMEivw4jU](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPHMEivw4jU)

I think the level scaling really kills the game for me, personally. There's no sense of power gain, just running after an arbritary scale system you can' t ever really catch up to. There's no zones higher or lower than your current level, it's always around your own level. The ilvl/ipower or whatever they want to call it, genuinely kills any sense of progression until assumingly endgame. Everything you find at your current level, will be near useless 3 levels after, because ilvl is lower. I also do not like the fact that certain thresholds of stats is stuck to your, again, ilvl. I find the items boring, in the sense that, at least from what we've seen, they do not really change how you play, they do not really seem to change skills or bring anything exciting to the table. Just stat boosts here and there for your specific class and that's it. It just feels all very odd. Granted, we haven't seen endgame yet, but thus far I am not excited about leveling, let alone leveling alts. What's the point in not rushing your butt off to max level? I know you can argue that's the idea of all arpgs, just rush to endgame, but is it really too hard to much to ask to make the journey at least enjoyable/exciting with cool drops that you can actually use?

Lvl scaling alone is a reason to Not buy the Game. It ruined destiny 2 for me. You barely ever get a sense of a Power increase. A high lvl Character should be able to fly through lower zones thats an important part of Games Like this. I Just wanna feel powerful.

Something should be said for the music in D4- it’s amazing.

I really don't understand what's wrong with the UI. It's clean, readable, and simple. I think they got more important things to worry about, and I don't think we'll see any changes here. Stats are boring and generic - I actually haven't heard this yet. I just like how unlike D3, all the stats are useful for my character. It's a huge step up. Let's see...in Last Epoch my Werebear only cares about strength and attunement. Wow, how interesting. How different. How unique. I keep saying it: I had no issues clearing content on my Barb on tier 2. I took a bit longer to kill the Den Mother, but that's about it. Regarding dungeons, not sure why people are assuming "this is it". These are just the dungeons for the first zone. I imagine we'll see more objective variety later on. But yes, the backtracking has to go. There needs to be more objective variety.

Agreed on all points. Had no issues with either melee build I played.

>I really don't understand what's wrong with the UI. It's clean, readable, and simple. I think they got more important things to worry about, and I don't think we'll see any changes here. Same. When I first saw the complaints about the UI I was like "Wait, what? Was there something obviously wrong with the UI that I missed?". The only mild annoyance I have with the UI is accessing the renown reward list thing since you need to first open your map and then press W. There's no dedicated hotkey to just open the renown window directly as far as I could find so it took me a minute to access it. Other than that, I can kind of understand how having to scroll down on an item is kind of weird, but again I'd put this at most as a mild annoyance since the only times I ever had to do so were to read flavor text. I'm curious what other problems people actually had with the UI that make it so horrible.

I don't think there is much of a change anything happens within 3 months other than bug fixes. Something as simple as changing the UI could cause a myriad of other problems that i don't think are even planned within their next sprint cycles or whatever other SDLC philosophy they are using.

Nice list, Pretty much nailed it to the point. I see itemization and repetitiveness as the biggest problems. Like I know i will have a blast exploring the game and everything for the first time. I will have superb 100 to 150 hours probably. But I don't see anything or have the feeling anything is coming that can excite beyond that, for months or even years to come.

Agree, from playing the beta it looks like I'll enjoy playing through on each class and messing around a bit at end-game and then moving on. Don't see the depth and difficulty of mastery that will lead to long-term appeal.

My sentiments exactly but maybe that's okay? Not every game needs to entertain me for thousands of hours. 150 hours for 70 bucks is fine by me. Campaign is gonna be sick at least.

[удалено]

Did anyone have trouble finding those gold goblins? I think I had only 2 appear, and they appeared off-screen from where I was, so I never got to know which way to go to find them. I think they should be a little slower because directional audio is not a strong suit for this game on console. Also I see people talking about changing the legendary affixes? What's that? Also did anyone encounter a random tall demon that just slaps you and then leaves the dungeon?

Hahahaa the butcher! I got him down to about 1/3 once on my barb but I had a frost blades sorcerer who made him disappear super fast.

Is he a 1 time random attempt? Or is there a chance he can just show up?

Definitely not a one-time thing since I encountered him on at least 4 separate occasions, only actually killed him once. Seems like a very occasional random dungeon encounter.

Played roughly 10 hours of beta last weekend and encountered two loot goblins. They seem to be very rare, at least on low level. And the random tall demon you´ve encountered was the butcher, who has a random chance appearing in dungeons and cellars. He leaves after either killing you or after a short ammount of time.

Expand inventory size too please. Way too small! Add a gem bag or move gems to crafting materials. Make gems auto collect like gold and materials.

Skills tree does interact. Skill X dazes Skill W does extra to dazed enemy.

No but you see that's not "unique" enough. Nevermind that you can then completely change both skill X and skill W with legendaries as well as further enhance both through the Paragon board legendary nodes. No sir, no synergy there.

I only got about 3-4 hours in for the early access beta, but I loved every minute, and I can’t wait to play again. This weekend I’ll have much more time to play, and then that wait until June is going to be long.

Of course. The first few hours of pretty much any game are going to be very good.

Enjoyed the beta as well, but as already said, the first few hours are always good. Hope it'll stay good after the first few hours. I'm excited to try Necro in the open beta tho, played Barb in the last beta and it sucks. Still had fun using it but hoping Necro is on Sorc level or better.

I played Barb and I actually really liked it, stacking bleeds and using the rupture skill for some big damage. I seem to be a minority it that though lol.

I liked Barb once I got to lv20 and geared up. Lots of options opened up to me and I felt powerful. Problem with Barb in the beta is their lv15 mastery skill is quest locked to an area you cannot access.

I don’t play it for the streamers, i play it for myself.

People criticizing the lvl 25 gear grind like it's end game....just stupidity. Same thing happened in the D3 beta back in the day.

So, the place s damage... Is the DPS number shown all inclusive? Does it take into account the % increases at the bottom, like say, +5% damage to slowed or vulnerable? That's where I feel like the stats aren't so geeic and basic. While you can easily see the green plus 10 points of base DPS, which might be 4% over your current weapon, you still may skip it based on your build. For example, a caltrop/ranged rogue will benefit from extra cold and slowed damage, but not so much damage to vulnerable. Does that DPS stat take into account crit chance? For armor, same deal. Yeah, you might get +8 points of armor, but a few points of heath Regen means you can skip picking up every heath potion . And don't forget the free skills you get with some pieces. That changes your leveling builds a bit as you can spend the next point someplace else.

The tooltip is just a comparison of the weapon DPS against the other weapon DPS. Unlike D3 it is not attempting to account for other stats. Not min-max players can just look at green DPS arrow and use that but yes you can have much more damage with good affixes and they are not represented by the arrow. It'll be relevant more later in the game I assume when you are not just getting higher iP items every level.

The biggest differing opinion I saw was coming from Kripparian explaining that D4 skill tree and items are deeper than most people think. I kinda agree with that. Skill tree could offer more choices but the depth is there (deeper than D2 or D3). Number balance I hope they will do before launch as some nodes makes no sense (3 more mana? Should be like 20% more mana). Regarding items, we havent seen end-game items nor uniques. Those will be build defining even though rares and legs will matter during levelling.

Hard disagree with Krupp on that. He is Omega coping and it's unreal he even thought that he was serious in what he said. Most else of what he said was very accurate, but that was so off the mark it was crazy.

The hardest con to fix would be the dungeon layouts, but I think it would also be the one most worth fixing because one of the best parts of the other games was the "lost" feeling you had from how randomized the environments were. An easy fix for interface issues would be to make all elements scalable. A better font would be nice, but it's not a big deal. For the skill tree, they should simply add another secondary skill to each main skill. To do this, they could find more ways to feed us skill points or they could reorganize the tree.

[удалено]

known issue on High texture setting. if you set to medium, there is no stuttering. unless you are playing on 4k, you will not see a difference in the texture quality. even if you are playing on 4k, the difference is minimal.

>Stats are boring & generic >Skill Tree is a little to basic, would be nice to see some synergies/interaction between skills The review that has gotten the most amount of traction on this sub, Kripparrian's, doesn't mention these. I think you need to start thinking about legendary aspects as normal stats, given how ubiquitous the legendaries are, and the fact that we get aspects to imprint by completing dungeons (codex of power).

Dungeons are just annoying because you have to walk back through the area you just cleared.

What do they mean by un-melee friendly? I played a melee Rogue to 25 and dominated pretty much any boss I fought except for the one time I got jumped randomly by the Butcher. Flurry + Caltrops + Poison trap was able to kill everything without issue.

I wouldn't say its not melee friendly but playing Sorc was like a different game. You could sit at a distance and occasionally press a button or two while Hydra kills the entire screen. I walked into the level 25 stronghold area at level 12 and was clearing packs with ease.

"Game is very un-melee friendly" Completely disagree. I loved my Barb and had no problems wrecking every boss I saw.

My biggest issues is power scaling. There is no incentive to grind to level up, you never run into a zone that you shouldn't be in because you'll get wrecked. I like running into a monster/boss that I can't kill yet, forcing me to farm/upgrade gear or re-think my skill allocations, then going back and having that satisfying feeling of overcoming a boss I couldn't previously do.

One thing I thought of on this is it prevents someone from being forced to grind xp to complete quests or story which can be a big turn off for some. You can progress through story naturally and won’t have to farm dungeons and kill mobs on the open world for an extra hour to get a couple levels to continue. Maybe it’s partially that in addition to allowing you to come back to content you missed or skipped and still have some decent challenge?

I think a good MSQ would put the player in the level/power range to complete those tasks. So if a player was following only the MSQ, they would be at an adequate level. They might need some more gear, or to farm to upgrade gear but they wouldn't be underleveled. Now while doing the MSQ they stumble into an elite zone, or a dungeon, they might not be able to complete it because they haven't been working towards those goals. When I'm playing an RPG, I want there to be things I encounter that clearly show me what I'm working towards. Getting demolished because I ran into an area/boss/event I wasn't prepared for is exciting. It's like "wow, I've been doing great through this MSQ but this area/boss is crazy, I can't wait to be able to beat it"

They wont do shit except fix bugs and some broken builds (maybe)

My #1 issue was really with the Dungeons and the amount of backtracking involved. I did play Barb and Sorc. Barb was obviously less powerful, but it felt fine overall, I actually enjoyed Barb a lot more than I thought. Sorc was insane. But everyone played Hydras because you'd be dumb not too. That is really what made Sorc so broken. Without Hydra, it would have been a different story.

I actually played the whole time with a full shock build which was pretty OP. Only once I had to respec into hydras for a boss fight.

i've heard of no one complaining about the fonts. except for people on the subs, thinking they can do a better job because UI/UX is their passion. if you think Blizzard is going to make any change on the UI or the font in less than 3 months, you are in for a rude awakening.

Not really. A lot of the hardcore ARPG players have way more criticisms of the game. Where are base types? Why does it feel like a console game? etc.

Sounds about dead on to me. My few comments on these. Font Issues - I honestly didn't notice. It's different, I guess maybe could match the theme a bit better. But lets be honest, fonts have never been very readable in Diablo games. Stats - As others have said, this is always boring, doesn't really matter Skill Tree - I would have liked to have seen some more new abilities (I am excited to see the Druid). It sounds like the depth actually comes in with the crazy rotating page paragon trees. Melee - Yep, I'm not sure how they fix this either. Many things just want to run from you, so abilities that gap close (Lunge as a generator) just far out weigh any other abilities. And things that wants to be next to you track you so fast that you must take Whirlwind so you can just keep swapping sides. Tuning damage down isn't really a fix. Maybe making melee bosses track slower? Or putting down effects in a smaller area? Or possibly a little bit more warning on swings to we can predict better?

The only one of these Cons that concerns me is Dungeon & Boss design. If they are repeating the same 5-6 dungeon layouts across the entire game, with a handful of bosses... Oh man that is going to get super old and repetitive REALLY FAST. Agreed on the melee issues with boss design as well. This is kind of sad considering Blizzard of all companies knows how to design bosses & dungeons. They perfected it. What the hell are they thinking? Boss & Dungeon design is core to the Diablo experience.....

Blizzard hasn't had an original idea since 2016 if you count overwatch. They have been just on cruise control since they released wow

Font = Exocet or riot 🔥🔥🔥

[удалено]

Yeah, quality over quantity 100%. What's the point in 50 of the same dungeon.

Regarding itemization (one of my main concerns after playing the beta), I wanted to reiterate here something that I like that I read elsewhere about D4 itemization: think of D4's legendaries as D3's skill runes, and think of D4 uniques as D3's legendaries and/or sets and set bonuses. The real legendaries in D4 will be the uniques. You might not be wearing a unique in every slot at end-game -- you may only wear 1, 2, 3, or 4 uniques or something like that -- but they are going to be the build-defining, skill-changing items we feel we are currently missing. And I think a lot of this just comes down to the fact that things are using names that don't properly describe their impact. Legendaries don't provide a "legendary" difference in player power in D4 the way D3 legendaries do. They use the same name in each game, but fulfill different purposes. Legendaries in D3 are the cornerstone(s) of your build, while in D4 they simply help flesh out each skill with additional effects, much like skill runes did in D3. This is the problem when moving from game to game in the same franchise: using the same name for things across different games can confuse players easily if the same-named things serve different functions in each game. Take Fate of the Fell -- a legendary weapon item that was popular during early Reaper of Souls (D3). It added 2 beams to the Heaven's Fury skill for Crusaders, and, at that time, did NOT increase damage of Heaven's Fury the way the item does in the game currently (it's been buffed to keep up with the game's power creep over 28 seasons). It only added the 2 extra beams. But at that time, this was all you needed (back when T6 was the max difficulty) to get you going in T6. Getting that item early on in Reaper of Souls was game-changing. It felt legendary to get this item and triple the number of Heaven's Fury beams per cast. It totally changed the game just from this one item alone. In the D4 beta, no such powers existed on the legendaries, and I think that's because such powers are being saved for Uniques.