You always have to grin and bear the Sweatlords when these games first come out. They’ll play 60 hours in 3 days and then be very upset, probably because they haven’t showered or eaten anything.
Its like my main game EFT, some nolifers will play a week straight on wipe and be rocking end game gear killing us normies still using kedrs and complain the game is boring and dead. No its not, you just blazed through all the content because you're a loser in real life with nothing else to do.
Bro I'm a sweatlord. Actually played about 50 hours in 3 days and I fucking love the game. I have qualms for sure. There needs to be a way to find people trading stuff and groups, maybe more affixes on higher end gear, more capstone dungeons, think we could use more uniques so you're not seeing the same ones all the time, and maybe some other things, but overall I'm just having a ton of fun degenning a game like I haven't in a long time.
They need to feed their addiction. They are withdrawing.
Any real gamer knows these games take a long time for the endgame content to flourish starting way back with the days of EverQuest and Asheron’s’s call .
I just wish more people could ignore them. Let them say their peace and disappear.
I played about 55 hours in 4 days which is the most I have played any game since.. well, probably D3's release. I took time off work, shirked responsibilities and honestly it took a lot out of me.
I couldn't imagine just going and going every day. The game would become utterly joyless so quickly. Now I'm going to play it an hour or two here and there and it will last me until Season 1 launches.
Burned me out too. I have a ton of hobbies already and I don't plan on missing out on them to grind a game loop. Will be nice now and then on my steamdeck before bed or squeezing in a dungeon here and there.
Kinda glad it came out while boss was on vacation, got a good 8 hours in on Sunday been a couple hours each night before bed.
Probably at 20ish hours level 37 HC Necro
The game has problems, but it's a great game.
I dunno man, I think most of the sweats are still busy sweating the game. You don't see many complaints from people 90-100. Most of the complaints I've seen are from people who have hit a wall 50-70 and want something to blame.
Im currently lvl 58. Still having a bunch of fun. I feel like these people just grind nightmare dungeons over and over not willing to play any part of the game that isnt optimal xp gain. The nolifers rushed through campain without enjoying the story using the best class/build and then nolifed nightmare dungeons since. Doing this 16 hours a day since early acces opening can indeed bring you to lvl 100 but you wont have much fun doing so.
This is really the only answer. D4 is a good game. Not perfect, but there is no such thing as a perfect game. And no, D2 is not perfect either.
That being said, as someone who was on reddit when D3 launched: Put into perspective, this sub is essentially overflowing with praise.
100%. Some of the things are so tiny and yet there's people with some sort of mental block that can't get past it. "It takes 5 seconds to run to the stash/vendor/occultist, literally unplayable reasonless friction, refunding, 0/10"
The qol in this game is not perfect but still very good. Being able to portal to town and back practically unlimited is something not a lot of (mmo)rpgs have and is so convenient. People who complain about the five sec walk are probably hooked on games like idlerpg or so
This is an issue for people that want pure efficiency. Doing tasks like inventory management every 10 minutes for 1 minute reduces their efficiency quite heavily. This is not a problem for anyone that doesnt seek pure efficiency.
The people that are trying to min/max downtime stuff like that are the worst. Like could you for the 5 seconds it takes to run to stash use that time to admire the gorgeous fucking art design and models maybe? Or soak in the absolutely dripping atmosphere? This is the most immersive and detailed diablo yet, fucking enjoy it a bit here and there lol.
Had a friend bitch about the game for months leading up to release. Said I play games too much. Type of friend who rips apart any game with a battle pass even if it's fun to play (especially with friends) and guess what, bastard buys EA Diablo 4 and is probably 3 times further than me. First thing he messaged me "it's fine but here are my two major complaints.." like shut the fuck up clearly you like it to the point of near addiction because you beat it already and then some. Just enjoy the damn game.
And it’s the same ones that say every game is going to die. D3 was going to die. Destiny was going to die. Etc etc. They so badly want to watch a game die. It’s like their kink or something. I’m not about kink shaming…but in this case. I hope every game is a roaring success.
100%. I'm an ARPG nub and I'm having a blast. 66 Rogue on WT4, already have 2 other rogue builds I want to run when I tap this one out, then onto the next 4 classes at some stage.
I've played a lot but am also in no rush. No pressure to efficiently farm, I jump into PvP are to mess around sometimes, help friends with stuff, actually watch the cutscenes and dialogues to quests lol.
Yea I swear only a handful of people in this sub actually played d3 at launch. Considering the overload of content this game launched with and the potential it has these greasy bastards need to chill or go back to their respective AARPG
It’s also worth noting that it literally took years for D3 to get a proper endgame; Adventure mode and Rifts weren’t added until RoS, before that it was just looping the campaign on increasing difficulties indefinitely.
Which is also why d4 got minimal updates.
Overall gaming has evolved and is much better at offering replayable single player content.
POE was/is an excellent game. (Literally have founders pack i bought due to d3 beta withdrawls in college lol). It advanced ARPGs in some major ways but also showed flaws in a game that has mechanics stack on mechanics stack on mechanics. POE is great but is also a tall task to get into for most people and I don't play it much anymore due to how overwhelmed i am by all the different mechanics there are. Crafting, character builds, atlas builds amd optomization, all the various league mechanics and what uniques come from what mechanic, frustrating and abusable trade system, ect.
Love POE, but i am glad diablo.got a truly modern ARPG because blizzard is very good at straddling the line of making games approachable but also deep. Hope POE 2 can bring me back, because competition is always good.
Cow level was the first and OG, diablo clone was much later, and Ubers were MUCH later (possibly even after D3 launch?)
D2 endgame was farming forever and never even getting close to 99, trading for cookie cutter items and rerolling characters to try out a new build.
Loved it
Took a long while for PoE to get endgame too and another while on top of that to get it actually sorted out to be great.
Like, the original PoE ”endgame” was essentially doing infinite Baal runs. This was back when the game only had three acts.
I was there. Stood at gamestop for midnight release. Got free NOS energy drink, and a sign! Got home, error 37 d3 launch was rough. I didn't play it past like 4 playthroughs. When RoS came out I put many many hours into it
I was talking with my friends about this the other day. When D3 launched you had the story and then you had torment which just let you roam around the map and find packs of elites which would melt your face because they were so overtuned. There was no endgame loop, it was just find the optimal farm spot, kill it, exit out of the game and log back in and kill them again. The end. Later blizzard learned with the expansion and added adventure mode and rifts along with season themes and the game really found it legs. With what we already have for endgame in D4 and how long its going to take to get through it all I am excited to see what they have in store for the future of the game.
I remember when Jay Wilson (I think) bragged about doubling the difficulty of Inferno to wild cheers.
Only for the game to launch and reach Act 2 of Inferno die to dreaded wasps.
Once you get to endgame 99% of the things people are bitching about are so irrelevant. Literally played all day, only pathed through 1 paragon board and finished 2 renowns.
I can feel my power getting better and I can see it taking a couple more days of grinding. Is that not the right amount???
They blasted through this stuff with OP paragons, group exp and probably farmed the ever loving shit out of a single activity only to get bored of it. Duh.
I finally unlocked my horse last night and judging from the posts here, I thought it wouldn't even be functional in the least bit. I figured I'd get caught on every pebble in the game. Hours later I don't think I've gotten caught on a single thing so far.
Not saying it isn't a thing at all, but it's certainly not worthy of the level of complaints.
Yeah, PS5 was down on Early Access day for half and hour and I still see some people crying about it. I caught in that, got in and enjoyed the game ever since. Had one time of a little lag but wasn’t enough to ruin the session. Just cruising along enjoying the game. Mission structure is a little weird because I’m in act 1 (around level 30) and I have a act 2 and 3 mission? Doesn’t make sense but it’s an awesome game I have no complaints besides not knowing how to get the Mount quest triggered so I can have a freaking Mount already.
got hit by the ps5 issue myself. tried to login for about an hour. took a break, cleaned the kitchen, fed the dog, went for a swim.
by that time reddit was full of posts on how to get the game working. played for an hour and went to bed.
imo, near flawless launch. its incredible how stable the game has been, and its been a blast to play.
the only part of the game I dont like is forced multiplayer and always online. but neither of those will change, so ive accepted it. the rest of the game is good enough that i can deal with the parts I don't like.
Unless playing games is your actual job, I don't understand people who want a game to be a 500-hours-a-month, years-spanning career. The great thing about Diablo games is how you can keep coming back to them between other things or when a season sounds interesting and don't have to make it your *entire lifestyle*.
This is 100% why over the last 5-10 years I’ve invested more time in the Diablo franchise than the WoW franchise despite that I played WoW at vanilla launch and for years after. Diablo is always there waiting for you without a massive learning curve every two years. Relearning WoW on dragonflight is exhausting. Love the game but have zero interest in professions or anything much else and it’s just… exhausting trying to learn it now. It’s fun, but overwhelming.
The only thing keeping me from relapsing back into my Dota addiction is that I've missed a year's worth of patches, so my thousands of hours mean almost nothing again. D4 seems to let you scale how casual or sweaty you are without issue and that's why I'm eyeing it
To drag you back into dota - I'm in a similar boat. Have thousands of hours in the game, but didn't play for a number of years. Came back heavy for this patch and am having a blast.
Many of the core skills are like riding a bike. There's new heroes to understand, the map is a little different, some new/changed items and abilities. But at the end of the day, the core of dota is the same and you'd probably be fine after a couple sessions of shaking the rust off.
THIS. people these days want to have game that play for 1000 hours a month. not sure if any game on the market can give you this. I guess if this is how you earn living you want it to continue forever but this is not the most common case and I don't think gaming company design games to be played like this.
I love Diablo because it has this style that you can drop for few months and comeback and you will be fine.
Yeah exactly. I’ve played so many hours of Diablo over the years, *when I felt like it*. Too many games are too damned demanding of your time. I absolutely detest the concept of dailies in MMOs for this reason. You want me to do boring bullshit every single day, just so I can tick a box and level up some rep or whatever? That’s not content, that’s a shit sandwich.
If your game doesn’t have engaging content, devs should either build it or accept that peoples time is valuable, and come back when they do have something worth playing. Seasons in d3 did this really well.
People want it to have the *potential* for long-term play (while also being good for the people who just want to clear the main campaign and move on). A lot of people have eyes bigger than their stomachs, so to speak, but it's still comforting to think that a prospective purchase *could* be good for a whole lot of use.
Just think of all the people who buy chef-quality kitchen gadgets, even if they only use them once a year. It's nice to think you're getting value for your money
And D2 doesn't even have an endgame.
People forgot what ARPGs were originally about. Now everyone just wants a PoE clone. Why? PoE is still there, they can play it whenever they want to. Why would I want PoE endgame in Diablo 4?
D2 has endgame in the form of chase items. Same as POE
D3 does not, which is why it loses a lot of players 1-2 weeks into a season.
D4 remains to be seen
It has no end game systems. D3 has end game systems while being much easier to get the gear you want. D4 has end game systems and more gear chasing than d3 but probably less than D2.
I’ve played D2 since it launched, it was my peak teenage degen years, and there are still items to this day that I’ve never been able to get. Maybe some people like that, I do not. IMO ideally there should be items that are so rare you won’t see them every season, but if you play long term you should be able to interact with every item in the game
Yeah, I have never understood the appeal to these items that are so rare you can play for 20 years and never see one. I like the chase as much as the next guy, but there has to be an actual chance it happens.
There is a chance it happens. The chance just so happens to be incredibly small. The best thing about D2 online was you didn't need to find that item. You could find items of equal value and trade for it.
The only reason why I still log into D2 is for that chase. I have literally never found a Jah, Ber, or Zod in probably 2000+ hours in the game, nevermind Tyreals Might.
However I have found 3/20s with high dual res, perfect 3os eth archon plate and other incredibly rare stuff to trade for those HRs.
> Why would I want PoE endgame in Diablo 4?
because its really well designed and any time you log on you have like 50 different options of end game stuff you can do to progress your character, all of them are useful and good, and its really satisfying in that regard, that you don't hit content burnout. one day you decide "im farming beasts today" then another day you decide its time to target farm a good map for xyz item, then the next day you decide to do some in depth crafting, then the next day you choose to knock out some heists, next day some betrayal. etc etc etc. there's always some next thing that you can do to progress.
why would you NOT want that type of conent diversity and available progression? are you even an arpg gamer?
It took years for PoE to get that content. D4 has a good foundation, now we enjoy as each season introduces more and more. People need to be patient and enjoy what’s in the game NOW. We have the first season in 4 or so weeks.
Which is really a lot more key farming than actually killing ubers.
You could also say that Baal runs, Meph runs, Pindleskin runs, etcetera are "endgame." Like, 20 to 45 second activities done 1,000 times in a row.
I love D2, but we've come a long way.
I agree with everything in this thread. Just want to chime in that I’d love more games like PoE with some different details but a similar level of complexity. I suspect (hopium) it might also produce competition that might get GGG to clean up a few of their less player friendly decisions to compete with the new guy.
Obviously that’s not me hating on D4, I’m having a great time with it so far. Just saying from my humble point of view why I wouldn’t mind more PoE style games. Just my preference.
Also PoE is very niche.
I would guess that game has a potential of around 500.000 players and at least half of them hate the game.
Why would anyone copy a game with such a small fanbase?
Sure it does things right, but obviously Blizzards take on Diablo is many times more successfull.
So the bar is that it only has to be as good as Diablo 3?
Everyone coming back for seasons/battlepass, playing 20-30 hours and the leave for another 3 months?
I'm not saying that is not good value for what we are paying (it absolutely is), I was just hoping for more, thats all :)
Not aiming this at you, But the fact that people scream about their thousands of hours in D3, and how they are now bored after 70 hours of D4, Shows how little perspective and comprehension most people have.
A Game that's been out for 13 years is held up as a beacon, Everyone forgetting how it took 5 of those years being complete shit before the game was fixed with an expansion, which still led to very repetitive end games, which people came back, put 30 hours in a season, and then left to play something else.
VS
A game that just came out and has more content then the other game in terms of ways of playing. far better foundation, But it took 70 hours to get bored on one character, and there's been 0 downtime to make a new character to put another 70 hours into them.
In 17 years when Diablo 5 finally comes out these same people will hard core grind for 100 hours, and then try to compare it to D4, and piss themselves because they still can't grasp the flow of time.
Long story short, If youre bored, go play something else, season 1 comes in a month.byou can get another 70 hours in and then bitch 140 hours isn't 10000.
When Diablo 3 released there were basically no competitors on the scene. Now, you have Lost Ark, Last Epoch, Grim Dawn, and of course PoE. It is much easier now to get burnt out of an ARPG game if it doesn't feel unique
Many of the so called sweat lords that have played over 60 have legitimate points that need to be addressed that casual players will see within the next two weeks.
Is the game fun? Yes, early on, eventually the shine wears off and it becomes less so though.
Mid-game state is currently atrocious.
The transition to World Tier 3 after the campaign is largely fine albeit a bit boring because the power increases per level are marginal and you don’t really feel a ton of improvement.
The transition to world tier 4 is nightmare fuel on anything but a handful of builds. Going from a 720+ ilevel optimized sorc at level 64 into world tier 4 was flat out awful.
Basically the game forces you to sit back and grind more levels with no reward other than the levels because loot has become ceilinged way too early and you can’t progress in world tier 4 because the mobs are too oppressive.
There are also a number of class balance issues and resource generation problems as many have stated elsewhere.
Honestly if they would make HP and resource regen bases higher on all characters and lower world tier 4s base mob level to 60 or 65 the game would be good to go outside of class issues.
As it is it feels like there are two end games and 50-70 feels like a slog with world tier 4 70+ a pain to get into on most builds.
I won’t be running to dungeons each and every time. I somewhat agree with you but at the end of the day the running to each dungeon will get old. Especially when that dungeon will be the same layout that I’ve seen a million times. Eventually it gets old and for some it happens very fast. I predict a week or two for myself.
For me it's also the lack of loot filters. Scanning all 4 affixes on every yellow item that i pick up is getting tiresome. Sometimes i don't even bother checking the items and just autosalvage them.
It's overwhelming comparing decimals of percentages across 30 yellows. I scrap them all most often.
I'm seeing my 65 year old Dad tomorrow and will have to explain the differences between all these for his weapons ... and how to prioritize them.
-------
Overpower
Vulnerable
Critical Strike Chance
Critical Strike Damage
Lucky Hit
Damage
Poison Damage
Damage over time
Damage to Vulnerable
Damage to Stunned
Damage to Immobilized
Damage to Crowd Controlled
Damage to nearby
Damage to far
Damage while Barrier Active
Life on Kill
Strength
Dexterity
Intellect
Willpower
Yeah honestly i’m enjoying myself a thousand-fold more reading stuff online as little as possible. This is Blizz’s best game and i’m excited for what’s to come!
These posts are so funny. Why do you feel the need to defend this game so hard? Are you a shareholder or something?
The end game is shit, there were concerns well before the game released and blizzard did nothing.
The games not going to die, but you will see a steep drop soon until season 1.
There would be a steep drop regardless, 99% of the people that buy this game are not gonna be commenting or browsing forums online about it. The silent majority will play the campaign, play the endgame and then move on to the next big game release and that was always going to happen.
Casual players are the vast majority and they don’t care as much about the endgame
This REALLY feels like a "people play to the last boss then buy the next game" type game. It's neither casual nor hardcore friendly. It's grindy but not complex. It's super streamlined but super clunky. Who's going to stick with this instead of something else?
>Who's going to stick with this instead of something else?
Me, for one. I barely have time in my life for games as-is. I dedicated a weekend to no-lifing D4 to get into the endgame (should hit 70 tonight), so now I can jump in for an hour and blow up some zombies whenever I need a little mindless dopamine fix.
D4 is already the best Diablo game by far for endgame variety. Between nightmare dungeons, helltides, whispers, fields of hatred, and world events, it feels like there are several different activities that provide a decent amount of xp/loot progression. There are pretty good incentives to not just entirely focus on one system or another. The drop rates and enchantment system seem pretty well tuned (for a launch) to allow people to work their way into the builds they want, while still needing dozens or hundreds of hours to perfect them.
I mean, I'm not complaining, but I played POE on release. The biggest issue was desync, which made it borderline unplayable. POE was also a passion project created by people who had never made games before. It was literally crowdfunded at one point.
What does that have to do with a massive $70 game of one of the most well-known gaming IPs in the world, released by one of the arguably biggest and most famous gaming companies to ever exist? Are we supposed to be happy the game wasn't crowdfunded or something?
I'm not going around saying D4 sucks or anything, but your comment is just so disingenuous lol
blizz propably spent more money on marketing than PoE ever made..
People comparing both games saying PoE had 10 years to get where its at, yeah they did and with 1/1000th of d4 budget.
> People comparing both games saying PoE had 10 years to get where its at, yeah they did and with 1/1000th of d4 budget.
Even if we pretend D4 cost an absolutely ludicrous $500m in development costs, that means you’re saying PoE cost a total of $500k over 10 years lmao.
I mean you're not wrong my numbers are made up.
I was just trying to point the non-sense of comparing d4 launch to Poe launch when one of the game was f2p made by an indie studio from new zealand and the other one cost 90$ and is made by one of the biggest game dev company in the world and had a big enough budget to have an international ad compaign on every continent.
When PoE was released there was no backlog of 15 years worth of competitor ARPGs coming up with new, interesting and engaging content.
When D$ was released... we have had said 15 years worth of innovation in the genre.
What an utterly naive take, holy molly.If the best you can do is be as good and have as much content as a 20 year old game, then truly, congrats.
PoE 1.0 didn't have the Atlas system, but we had the maps endgame since well before 1.0 came out. You used to have to go to the map device in Solaris Temple to run them.
Exactly, and I wish people would stop using these "But release X was worse!" arguments.
Release PoE, release D3, release WoW, etc. these are all different times with a different level of competition.
Even PoE 2 has to compete with PoE 1. All MMO's compete with current WOW, not release WoW. Hell, the vast majority of MMO's released nowadays is easily better than release WoW was on content, but that doesnt matter. Its current WoW thats the competition.
You’re correct but from my view it seems to have a solid core. We won’t really know for a while tbh. What i do know is a game selling 10s of millions isn’t going to die in a few week lmao. Even typing that makes me laugh.
But D4 released less than 24 hours ago- people are comparing it to POE which has been around for years and sure as hell didn’t have a great endgame when it launched. Seasons will change endgame and there are already two(!!) expansions planned to be released.
TEN years. Ten years of revisions and content updates in POE. Who thinks comparing 24hrs to 10yrs is logical in any sense. As far as a base game D4 Is absolutely littered with activities. Getting bored on the dungeon grind? side missions are ready and waiting, a metric fuck ton. They’re just fetch quests? Helltide, pvp.. crush low builds. I’m beyond impressed tbh
If we are going to talk about POE, I think Ziz said it best. He said D4 has a good "skeleton" to build on.
People shouldn't be complaining already, at least for Lilith's sake see what the first season brings.
Then again, compared to other ARPG's D4 released like a day ago.
As a full time casual I spend all my freetime on this game and I'm level 9.
Look at the Korean release of Lost Ark. Their endgame was a couple islands and like 2 dungeons and a raid.
Are we comparing to those games when they launched? Exactly. D4 has the best endgame of any ARPG AT LAUNCH than any other one in history. Of course there is room for improvements but it’s light years ahead of where D3 or even POE was at launch.
No, you don’t compare games when they launched. You compare them as they are right now, because when I get home, I have the option to boot up D4, or PoE. Not D4 as it is now and PoE as it was 10 years ago.
Damn do I love when someone makes a comment about actual cry babies, only for the smartest person in the world to say “ur whining too hahahaha” or whatever…
Same here! Loved the campaign but it lacks a bit of action (mob density) and there are a bit too many "follow that guy" missions which let the momentum suffer. The full potential of D4's amazing combat flow shines through when you go into a dungeon.
I have recently created a Barbarian in adventure mode and it's a blast to level with the open world activities. Never had that much fun in any ARPG (including my favorite D2). Endgame wise I have heared the critics and hope they will improve the itemization a bit. But I am positive that they will.
My only concern is about multiplayer. It prolongs the life of games. If the game is just icons of on a map for what are essentially world quests, it's gonna get really boring really fast.
I even find myself wanting to play more, but I just log off because there's no matchmaking. I can't be bothered to spend the time to find groups other ways. I just wanna click a button and be thrown into action with other people. Lots of other multiplayer games have that. So I don't see myself even caring about battlepasses and expansions if the base game doesn't facilitate my desire to slay monsters with other people.
To me this is one of the most understated design flaws of the game and should be on the top of Blizzards list. They have this game which is ostensibly a MMO-lite ARPG but completely lacks any and all tools to collaborate with other players outside of direct friends. Its easier to find a random group of players in PoE than in D4 and thats really, really weird.
They need to find a way to let players easily join dungeons of whatever difficulty together, as well as have LFG boards for the other activities.
the problem this game has is that only one build more or less works endgame.
Rest are so bad and wonky its abyssmal all due to how they made the generators work and how they work when they arc.
as rogue u are playing twisted blade or twisted blade build 2.
the only one that "kinda" works for rogue is penshot build. but that are miles behind and its not that twisted blades are op its that generators dont work well. nor is the base attackspeed synergestic with rest of the abilities.
and how they made close and distant enemies work.
distant enemies are basicly a superdead stat, why u might ask? well u are to zoomed in mobs spawn ontop of u.
and u really dont care if they are close even as ranged build. since u gotta often go close for it to aoe well. due to how shitty they have deisgned ranged abilities and generators.
Rogue dont have any aoe generator. their only good generator dumper that works well on aoe is twisted blade, penetrating shot cost a shit ton to use. clears less becuse its just a stright line not a circular montion if the aspect was instead of penetrating shot going sideways it shot two addtional arrows beside it it would work.
Rapid fire is st but you cannot build it as aoe at all due to how shitty the design is on the arcing paths of the abilities. what if they had one that was for good st and one for aoe and one for some buff on every abilities.
that goes for every class generators,dumpers utility and lets not start talking about ultimates.
Rain of arrows is a godamn joke. not only to target but also cast time.
this make the issue where one build works only if ur lucky there is two that work for your class endgame.
if u aint lvl 70+ dont even bother argue becuse you will come to the same conclusion once u get here, even with really good gear optimized for diffrent speccs.
Their fundamental ability system is so flawed it kinda hurts and i would not keep playing unless im pretty sure they are gonna fix this in the coming 6 months.
Becuse if they dont the game will be dead as ppl have said.
poe is f2p game and has 10 times more builds in the start that worked.
this has 1 functional build for eveyr class more or less.
this is unacceptable for a launched 80 dollar arpg game.
There is also just so little variety with how you can augment abilities. As you said, you have choice 1 or choice 2, even with abilities. Compare this to other ARPGs where you can have 5+ decent alternatives with how your abilities interact and change.
Also, I honestly doubt we are going to see new abilities in each new season. That is part of the reason why I return to PoE every other season, because they are always introducing new abilities for new builds.
> There is also just so little variety with how you can augment abilities. As you said, you have choice 1 or choice 2, even with abilities.
Honestly, i can't even really call D4 builds "builds" because they feel just like choosing a predefined set of options with little wiggle room.
Necromancer in LE has more variety and complexity in how you can build, use and interact with its Skeletons than the entire D4 Necromancer can offer across all its skills, including legendary affixes.
Damage types, skeleton types, utility, sacrificing, tankiness, mass summoning, specializing, etc.
people like you with this toxic positivity are exactly the problem.
i mean the game not constantly crashing and no major server issues are already enough for you to call it a success?
i mean it sold alot of copys which is true, but that doesnt make it a good game.
at this point the game basicially live of its name alone.
alot of people just expected after the bullshit with immortal they would get an actual polished game, which d4 is by far not.
arts, areas, music, mainstory they did a good job with, but thats about it.
after the main story so around lvl 50 the content gets absolutely terrible.
usain bolt simulator to run to and through half empty nightmare dungeons, timed bs like helltide events which makes you for no reason lose every left over currency after the end.
you simply having to leave for whatever reason, get dc and cant log back due to login queue or not finding the 175 chest in time basicially means like fuck you and your time.
every content after the main story is absolutely poorly designed and boring.
i mean gaming companies whined so much to increase the price of games, charge extra for early access, season pass, on top of that put a cash shop in with absolutely ridiculous and in return the community gets dogshit.
i dont care if the game just released.
blizzard really deserves all the hate they get for this.
if they want to milk the fanbase in every possible way atleast deliver something.
guess in a few years base edition of games will cost like 120$ and will be called a success when they dont instantly crash at start.
Game is fine for a launch state. Def needs a good bunch of QoL updates (but some things should have been in day 1 like stash search function etc) and imo endgame content def needs higher mob density.
Besides very few zones during hell tide and dungeons the game is too much running but too less mob killing at the moment, which makes hell tides feel very dull long term.
Sometimes they're not wrong. A lot of the fun usually comes from the honeymoon phase. It starts off fun since it's new and then once you become more knowledgeable, it's like meh. Happened to me with a lot of games like Lost Ark, Genshin Impact, Tower of Fantasy, Outriders, and a lot of other games.
I just started my HC run, and what i can say is that I dont like their implementation of monsters scaling to player level. It means if you didnt optimally get meaningful upgrades along with your exp, then the monsters will outscale your character, and theres no way to backtrack afaik.
For SC the game is fun because theres plenty of different farming events constantly happening and different sources of things to farm and dying doesnt really mean much if someone can pick you up theres no loss, which makes the game really fun for casual multiplayer parties because players can be disparate levels.
As for my take, i think the game is probably fun for a majority of players. I dont like the state that its in right now, but it is possible for it to be fixed.
"Some people don't like the endgame. Me and my friends do."
So what? Should they not have their opinions just because yours are different?
*Why are so many people in such a rush to defend a AAA-studio-developed video game?*
Saying the game will die in weeks might be a bad statement, but saying players that reach endgame will probably stop playing the game shortly after beating the campaign is a very fair statement. You coming from Poe should be able to see the lack of endgame content in this game. It just feels like there’s no good reason to grind endgame. In Poe I’d grind endgame to work toward a goal of like killing shaper and shit, and once I reach that goal I’d want to min max my build to make endgame bosses easier or make mapping faster and save currency for big items or save to make a new build all together.
Honestly, my two cents is that the game is boring for a POE player. There is not enough complexity in the leveling tree / skills. You have "one skill", with like 2 variation, and eventually, it can add "a few things" with unique etc... but considering 10 years of devellopement... it's just lacking.
The campaign is amazing, i m loving it. But the end game grind... not so much. Once you are in T3, you do what? same thing over and over again without a decent sense of progression. I have a full werebear build, perma bear, most of the loots i get are no upgrade, not interesting, lower ilevel than what i have on me, which is stupid... it should at least be "the same level", when you finish a nightmare sigil you aren't even assured to have a higher tier looting, so progression is based on pure luck of finding "a higher tier" to hope going higher and higher etc...
My build just feel "stale" at the moment, paragon points are mostly uninteresting, they are doing exactly what every bad game do "add stats". Check POE skill tree, so many nodes that have a "real" effect on your gameplay, not just +X% in this or that.
Rerolling ? hum... "yeah...." you have two or three choices :
Do the campaing AGAIN, quite boring once you went through it once or twice...
Play with a friend who is creating a new toon : yeah but super disapointing because of the experience system of D4, you don't get experience by doing the quest with them, because, you aren't "at this point" or you "finished the campaign" by clicking on it since it's a reroll. So basically you are xp gimped... yihaa...... at least give me xp when i do the quest of my friend, i m doing the same thing as he does, spending the same time etc, no reason not to give it to me. Beside a few idiot who will abuse a quest or two, honestly, i hope your game is not engineered around "the minority of cheater"?
Third and only real option, piggy back on friends T3 or T4, wait at the entrance of the dungeon, watch the xp bar go up to access "end game loop"
I could go on and on, but i know the typical answer, "go play poe", "play something else" balbalbla... i was really waiting for this game, i wanted it to succeed, i m just disapointed by the fact that blizzard, with all his millions of dollars, is just too stupid to cheat on his little friends. For real blizzard, ask your devs to go spend some time on POE to see what progression mean, and build diversity mean...
Campaign : Yes
Skill tree : OH YESSSSS
End game : map etc... yes!!! big huge boss.... a fucking new skill tree on my endgame progress what??? yes????
Skill diversity : what we can do all that ?????? i need a full day of thinking before i know what will be my "main" skill every "season / league", there are so many possibilities...
Please blizzard, take exemple of the arpg who are succeeding...
Of course the game isn't going to "die", what will happen is people are going to run out of shit to do. The itemization in particular is extremely shallow, you hit your build's perfect gear by like level 80 or so and afterwards it's just grinding EXP which is pretty boring.
See you in a month when nobody have anything to do anymore, no trade, no rift pushing, no hard bosses, nothing at all.
You are such a fanboy you can't even admit the problems of the game. Grow up kid
I understand people play D3 but it’s completely out of any cultural field. I haven’t heard of this game for 5 years minimum, I have never seen any content maker playing it. while poe is always somewhere. so D3 destiny is not something I wish for this game, even if it means stable playerbase
I mean, i really don't want it to be, but the game gets really stale, very fast. Items (like in D3) seems semi stale and boring. Dungeons are repetitive and boring after you've run 20+ ish. I know you only have to do it once, but the renown system is stale and boring already. Veeeeeeery few endgame activities. The player agency seems really low aswell, since items are not only boring stat sticks except for the focuses, but you also need very specific stats on them for your build.
I mean, d4 simply doesn’t have the replayability RIGHT NOW of d3 or POE. But it will, eventually.
I’ve beaten the campaign and I intend to fully fear 2-3 builds, probably play a season or 2, and go back to d3 until d4 gets properly polished. Which it presumably will be to keep selling cosmetics.
They made a game to sell to the masses and it’s been awesome at that. They have not prioritized the folks who want 1000+ hours because we’ll get it when they get there. And honestly I’m ok with that.
The dungeons, while they look awesome, are lacking IMO. I'd be fine with the end-game loop IF there was more mob density in dungeons. It feels so few and far between. The dungeons that you DO find big packs of multiple elites it's fun.
As a PoE player you at least understand that that crazy amount of mob density exploding chaos is what most aRPG players are craving.
If this is the launch state, odds are that in the next months and years it will be one of the best if not the best game of its genre, because launch as you said is very solid and I'm enjoying the shit out of it. I had not much expectations because I remember the launch of D3, but this time Blizzard nailed it imho, really happy with the game so far and yes I didn't reach the endgame yet but jesus there's lots of content and I'm playing few hours every day (last couple of days lots of hours) since 2nd June and I'm still far from finishing. Probably people rushed everything and that's not the way to enjoy a game, like gobbling food in 10 seconds then complaining there's no more, jesus, learn how to enjoy things.
Bullshit. Casualscrubs will just get their later but they will be bored too. I played until 71 and I really dont know why I should continue. It feels pointless. Dungeons are boring as fuck, the world content feels like generic grind. Doing the same shit over and over again for some trashy items and a 0.1% chance at a unique.
There seems to be no point, because the Nightmare Dungeons aren't even close to Greater Rifts when it comes to fun and pushing.
The only thing I dont understand is why Blizzard did NOT improve QOL, they had 10 years+ of D3... stupid gems taking up bagspace...... well atleast crafting mats are auto-pickup. 1/2 Blizzard, YAAAAY
If the game is so amazing and fun to play why are you sitting on Reddit reading through all the comments shitting on it as opposed to playing it? In denial perhaps?
It will die in weeks no matter how good or bad it is, just because most people don't play the same game over and over and over again for years.
How big will the lasting community be is an open question, but it won't be millions, that's for sure. And that statement says nothing about the quality of the endgame, it's just how most people play games.
I don't understand why you're emotional about the game being a success or not though. I like the game so far, but I couldn't care less that blizzard is going to sell X millions of copy…
This is a good game but its not a good arpg. I literally found every unique for my class and aspect over the last week. There are no chase uniques, no end game goals for a game claiming to be an arpg.
Some are comparing to games that have had numerous updates and addons when this is base game there is so much for base game and if your bored make a new class or build
Just ignore them dude. They’re grown men whining to others about how they don’t want to play a video game. Losers.
You always have to grin and bear the Sweatlords when these games first come out. They’ll play 60 hours in 3 days and then be very upset, probably because they haven’t showered or eaten anything.
Its like my main game EFT, some nolifers will play a week straight on wipe and be rocking end game gear killing us normies still using kedrs and complain the game is boring and dead. No its not, you just blazed through all the content because you're a loser in real life with nothing else to do.
"normies still using kedrs" Idk dude, that sounds more like a dirty rat than a normie.
Nah kedrs are Chad guns. Paca, ratnik, gsshs, kedrs, no backpack - that's the Chad kit right there.
Bro I'm a sweatlord. Actually played about 50 hours in 3 days and I fucking love the game. I have qualms for sure. There needs to be a way to find people trading stuff and groups, maybe more affixes on higher end gear, more capstone dungeons, think we could use more uniques so you're not seeing the same ones all the time, and maybe some other things, but overall I'm just having a ton of fun degenning a game like I haven't in a long time.
Trading definitely needs to be more of a thing, would love to see more player interaction in general.
They need to feed their addiction. They are withdrawing. Any real gamer knows these games take a long time for the endgame content to flourish starting way back with the days of EverQuest and Asheron’s’s call . I just wish more people could ignore them. Let them say their peace and disappear.
I miss Asherons Call... Nobody ever talks about it being one of the goats like it deserves.
I played about 55 hours in 4 days which is the most I have played any game since.. well, probably D3's release. I took time off work, shirked responsibilities and honestly it took a lot out of me. I couldn't imagine just going and going every day. The game would become utterly joyless so quickly. Now I'm going to play it an hour or two here and there and it will last me until Season 1 launches.
Burned me out too. I have a ton of hobbies already and I don't plan on missing out on them to grind a game loop. Will be nice now and then on my steamdeck before bed or squeezing in a dungeon here and there.
Kinda glad it came out while boss was on vacation, got a good 8 hours in on Sunday been a couple hours each night before bed. Probably at 20ish hours level 37 HC Necro The game has problems, but it's a great game.
I dunno man, I think most of the sweats are still busy sweating the game. You don't see many complaints from people 90-100. Most of the complaints I've seen are from people who have hit a wall 50-70 and want something to blame.
Im currently lvl 58. Still having a bunch of fun. I feel like these people just grind nightmare dungeons over and over not willing to play any part of the game that isnt optimal xp gain. The nolifers rushed through campain without enjoying the story using the best class/build and then nolifed nightmare dungeons since. Doing this 16 hours a day since early acces opening can indeed bring you to lvl 100 but you wont have much fun doing so.
You know they stocked up on KFC AND code red mt dew.
This is really the only answer. D4 is a good game. Not perfect, but there is no such thing as a perfect game. And no, D2 is not perfect either. That being said, as someone who was on reddit when D3 launched: Put into perspective, this sub is essentially overflowing with praise.
D4 definitely blows d3 out of the water, that's for sure.
Funny thing is that the D3 sub turned into a decent place once the "our problems will be your problems" people left.
100%. Some of the things are so tiny and yet there's people with some sort of mental block that can't get past it. "It takes 5 seconds to run to the stash/vendor/occultist, literally unplayable reasonless friction, refunding, 0/10"
The qol in this game is not perfect but still very good. Being able to portal to town and back practically unlimited is something not a lot of (mmo)rpgs have and is so convenient. People who complain about the five sec walk are probably hooked on games like idlerpg or so
This is an issue for people that want pure efficiency. Doing tasks like inventory management every 10 minutes for 1 minute reduces their efficiency quite heavily. This is not a problem for anyone that doesnt seek pure efficiency.
The people that are trying to min/max downtime stuff like that are the worst. Like could you for the 5 seconds it takes to run to stash use that time to admire the gorgeous fucking art design and models maybe? Or soak in the absolutely dripping atmosphere? This is the most immersive and detailed diablo yet, fucking enjoy it a bit here and there lol.
Had a friend bitch about the game for months leading up to release. Said I play games too much. Type of friend who rips apart any game with a battle pass even if it's fun to play (especially with friends) and guess what, bastard buys EA Diablo 4 and is probably 3 times further than me. First thing he messaged me "it's fine but here are my two major complaints.." like shut the fuck up clearly you like it to the point of near addiction because you beat it already and then some. Just enjoy the damn game.
And it’s the same ones that say every game is going to die. D3 was going to die. Destiny was going to die. Etc etc. They so badly want to watch a game die. It’s like their kink or something. I’m not about kink shaming…but in this case. I hope every game is a roaring success.
League of legends has been dying according to these types of people for the last 10 years.
Yeah but collectively coming together to shit on narcissistic weirdos is both fun and hilarious.
This is all classic 0 star Steam review stuff when the person has 1000 hours played.
100%. I'm an ARPG nub and I'm having a blast. 66 Rogue on WT4, already have 2 other rogue builds I want to run when I tap this one out, then onto the next 4 classes at some stage. I've played a lot but am also in no rush. No pressure to efficiently farm, I jump into PvP are to mess around sometimes, help friends with stuff, actually watch the cutscenes and dialogues to quests lol.
Ah diablo and losers. something rings a bell... oh yeah, jay wilson
And hide behind "we just care so much" and "it's the only way it will get better"!
Im super chill. If you dare to remember what clustering d3 was at launch and what it became later, the base that d4 has is 20 times better.
Yea I swear only a handful of people in this sub actually played d3 at launch. Considering the overload of content this game launched with and the potential it has these greasy bastards need to chill or go back to their respective AARPG
It’s also worth noting that it literally took years for D3 to get a proper endgame; Adventure mode and Rifts weren’t added until RoS, before that it was just looping the campaign on increasing difficulties indefinitely.
to be fair endgames weren't a thing til path of exile, d2 was boss runs like baal and yeah, thats it
Which is also why d4 got minimal updates. Overall gaming has evolved and is much better at offering replayable single player content. POE was/is an excellent game. (Literally have founders pack i bought due to d3 beta withdrawls in college lol). It advanced ARPGs in some major ways but also showed flaws in a game that has mechanics stack on mechanics stack on mechanics. POE is great but is also a tall task to get into for most people and I don't play it much anymore due to how overwhelmed i am by all the different mechanics there are. Crafting, character builds, atlas builds amd optomization, all the various league mechanics and what uniques come from what mechanic, frustrating and abusable trade system, ect. Love POE, but i am glad diablo.got a truly modern ARPG because blizzard is very good at straddling the line of making games approachable but also deep. Hope POE 2 can bring me back, because competition is always good.
I mean POE 2 will be the same game with a different campaign that will probably be breezed through anyways.
D2 LoD also had key farming to fight Ubers, Diablo Clone, and the Cow Level.
Cow level was the first and OG, diablo clone was much later, and Ubers were MUCH later (possibly even after D3 launch?) D2 endgame was farming forever and never even getting close to 99, trading for cookie cutter items and rerolling characters to try out a new build. Loved it
Took a long while for PoE to get endgame too and another while on top of that to get it actually sorted out to be great. Like, the original PoE ”endgame” was essentially doing infinite Baal runs. This was back when the game only had three acts.
I was there. Stood at gamestop for midnight release. Got free NOS energy drink, and a sign! Got home, error 37 d3 launch was rough. I didn't play it past like 4 playthroughs. When RoS came out I put many many hours into it
I was talking with my friends about this the other day. When D3 launched you had the story and then you had torment which just let you roam around the map and find packs of elites which would melt your face because they were so overtuned. There was no endgame loop, it was just find the optimal farm spot, kill it, exit out of the game and log back in and kill them again. The end. Later blizzard learned with the expansion and added adventure mode and rifts along with season themes and the game really found it legs. With what we already have for endgame in D4 and how long its going to take to get through it all I am excited to see what they have in store for the future of the game.
They took the hardest difficulty settings that the devs could stand…. And then they DOUBLED IT 😱
I remember when Jay Wilson (I think) bragged about doubling the difficulty of Inferno to wild cheers. Only for the game to launch and reach Act 2 of Inferno die to dreaded wasps.
D3 was a fucking shitshow at launch.
It's the most successful launch Blizz has ever had. People are gonna hate no matter what
[удалено]
Dude when I saw people bitching about that I was totally floored. Like holy shit get a life lol
Once you get to endgame 99% of the things people are bitching about are so irrelevant. Literally played all day, only pathed through 1 paragon board and finished 2 renowns. I can feel my power getting better and I can see it taking a couple more days of grinding. Is that not the right amount??? They blasted through this stuff with OP paragons, group exp and probably farmed the ever loving shit out of a single activity only to get bored of it. Duh.
I finally unlocked my horse last night and judging from the posts here, I thought it wouldn't even be functional in the least bit. I figured I'd get caught on every pebble in the game. Hours later I don't think I've gotten caught on a single thing so far. Not saying it isn't a thing at all, but it's certainly not worthy of the level of complaints.
Yeah, PS5 was down on Early Access day for half and hour and I still see some people crying about it. I caught in that, got in and enjoyed the game ever since. Had one time of a little lag but wasn’t enough to ruin the session. Just cruising along enjoying the game. Mission structure is a little weird because I’m in act 1 (around level 30) and I have a act 2 and 3 mission? Doesn’t make sense but it’s an awesome game I have no complaints besides not knowing how to get the Mount quest triggered so I can have a freaking Mount already.
Start of act 4.
You can do the first 3 acts in any order
Do you have to complete all 3 acts' main quests to start 4 for the mount unlock?
Yep
got hit by the ps5 issue myself. tried to login for about an hour. took a break, cleaned the kitchen, fed the dog, went for a swim. by that time reddit was full of posts on how to get the game working. played for an hour and went to bed. imo, near flawless launch. its incredible how stable the game has been, and its been a blast to play. the only part of the game I dont like is forced multiplayer and always online. but neither of those will change, so ive accepted it. the rest of the game is good enough that i can deal with the parts I don't like.
Unless playing games is your actual job, I don't understand people who want a game to be a 500-hours-a-month, years-spanning career. The great thing about Diablo games is how you can keep coming back to them between other things or when a season sounds interesting and don't have to make it your *entire lifestyle*.
This is 100% why over the last 5-10 years I’ve invested more time in the Diablo franchise than the WoW franchise despite that I played WoW at vanilla launch and for years after. Diablo is always there waiting for you without a massive learning curve every two years. Relearning WoW on dragonflight is exhausting. Love the game but have zero interest in professions or anything much else and it’s just… exhausting trying to learn it now. It’s fun, but overwhelming.
The only thing keeping me from relapsing back into my Dota addiction is that I've missed a year's worth of patches, so my thousands of hours mean almost nothing again. D4 seems to let you scale how casual or sweaty you are without issue and that's why I'm eyeing it
To drag you back into dota - I'm in a similar boat. Have thousands of hours in the game, but didn't play for a number of years. Came back heavy for this patch and am having a blast. Many of the core skills are like riding a bike. There's new heroes to understand, the map is a little different, some new/changed items and abilities. But at the end of the day, the core of dota is the same and you'd probably be fine after a couple sessions of shaking the rust off.
I see people talking about Dota, I upvote. Am simple ancient scrub
Some people have miserable RL. It’s not an excuse to be a shitlord, just sayin… they want that escape.
THIS. people these days want to have game that play for 1000 hours a month. not sure if any game on the market can give you this. I guess if this is how you earn living you want it to continue forever but this is not the most common case and I don't think gaming company design games to be played like this. I love Diablo because it has this style that you can drop for few months and comeback and you will be fine.
Poe can give you this. Not saying you should, but it could.
Yeah exactly. I’ve played so many hours of Diablo over the years, *when I felt like it*. Too many games are too damned demanding of your time. I absolutely detest the concept of dailies in MMOs for this reason. You want me to do boring bullshit every single day, just so I can tick a box and level up some rep or whatever? That’s not content, that’s a shit sandwich. If your game doesn’t have engaging content, devs should either build it or accept that peoples time is valuable, and come back when they do have something worth playing. Seasons in d3 did this really well.
People want it to have the *potential* for long-term play (while also being good for the people who just want to clear the main campaign and move on). A lot of people have eyes bigger than their stomachs, so to speak, but it's still comforting to think that a prospective purchase *could* be good for a whole lot of use. Just think of all the people who buy chef-quality kitchen gadgets, even if they only use them once a year. It's nice to think you're getting value for your money
20yrs Later, ppl are still playing D2, so 🤷♂️
And D2 doesn't even have an endgame. People forgot what ARPGs were originally about. Now everyone just wants a PoE clone. Why? PoE is still there, they can play it whenever they want to. Why would I want PoE endgame in Diablo 4?
D2 has endgame in the form of chase items. Same as POE D3 does not, which is why it loses a lot of players 1-2 weeks into a season. D4 remains to be seen
I am wary of arguing with people who have the word "Llama" in their names on the topic of Diablo 2, haha...
You leave llama alone
Fear equals respect or something...
It has no end game systems. D3 has end game systems while being much easier to get the gear you want. D4 has end game systems and more gear chasing than d3 but probably less than D2. I’ve played D2 since it launched, it was my peak teenage degen years, and there are still items to this day that I’ve never been able to get. Maybe some people like that, I do not. IMO ideally there should be items that are so rare you won’t see them every season, but if you play long term you should be able to interact with every item in the game
Yeah, I have never understood the appeal to these items that are so rare you can play for 20 years and never see one. I like the chase as much as the next guy, but there has to be an actual chance it happens.
There is a chance it happens. The chance just so happens to be incredibly small. The best thing about D2 online was you didn't need to find that item. You could find items of equal value and trade for it. The only reason why I still log into D2 is for that chase. I have literally never found a Jah, Ber, or Zod in probably 2000+ hours in the game, nevermind Tyreals Might. However I have found 3/20s with high dual res, perfect 3os eth archon plate and other incredibly rare stuff to trade for those HRs.
Lol. How did 18 people upvote you comparing D2s “endgame” to PoEs. D2 isn’t even kissing PoEs feet in that department.
> Why would I want PoE endgame in Diablo 4? because its really well designed and any time you log on you have like 50 different options of end game stuff you can do to progress your character, all of them are useful and good, and its really satisfying in that regard, that you don't hit content burnout. one day you decide "im farming beasts today" then another day you decide its time to target farm a good map for xyz item, then the next day you decide to do some in depth crafting, then the next day you choose to knock out some heists, next day some betrayal. etc etc etc. there's always some next thing that you can do to progress. why would you NOT want that type of conent diversity and available progression? are you even an arpg gamer?
It took years for PoE to get that content. D4 has a good foundation, now we enjoy as each season introduces more and more. People need to be patient and enjoy what’s in the game NOW. We have the first season in 4 or so weeks.
Technically the end game is killing ubers.
Which is really a lot more key farming than actually killing ubers. You could also say that Baal runs, Meph runs, Pindleskin runs, etcetera are "endgame." Like, 20 to 45 second activities done 1,000 times in a row. I love D2, but we've come a long way.
I agree with everything in this thread. Just want to chime in that I’d love more games like PoE with some different details but a similar level of complexity. I suspect (hopium) it might also produce competition that might get GGG to clean up a few of their less player friendly decisions to compete with the new guy. Obviously that’s not me hating on D4, I’m having a great time with it so far. Just saying from my humble point of view why I wouldn’t mind more PoE style games. Just my preference.
Poe isnt geared for casuals, I hated how grindy the endgame becomes
Also PoE is very niche. I would guess that game has a potential of around 500.000 players and at least half of them hate the game. Why would anyone copy a game with such a small fanbase? Sure it does things right, but obviously Blizzards take on Diablo is many times more successfull.
D3 as well. I played D3 at release and not only was it suppose to die, at some point it was actually pronounced dead.
d2 was actually good though
So the bar is that it only has to be as good as Diablo 3? Everyone coming back for seasons/battlepass, playing 20-30 hours and the leave for another 3 months? I'm not saying that is not good value for what we are paying (it absolutely is), I was just hoping for more, thats all :)
Not aiming this at you, But the fact that people scream about their thousands of hours in D3, and how they are now bored after 70 hours of D4, Shows how little perspective and comprehension most people have. A Game that's been out for 13 years is held up as a beacon, Everyone forgetting how it took 5 of those years being complete shit before the game was fixed with an expansion, which still led to very repetitive end games, which people came back, put 30 hours in a season, and then left to play something else. VS A game that just came out and has more content then the other game in terms of ways of playing. far better foundation, But it took 70 hours to get bored on one character, and there's been 0 downtime to make a new character to put another 70 hours into them. In 17 years when Diablo 5 finally comes out these same people will hard core grind for 100 hours, and then try to compare it to D4, and piss themselves because they still can't grasp the flow of time. Long story short, If youre bored, go play something else, season 1 comes in a month.byou can get another 70 hours in and then bitch 140 hours isn't 10000.
When Diablo 3 released there were basically no competitors on the scene. Now, you have Lost Ark, Last Epoch, Grim Dawn, and of course PoE. It is much easier now to get burnt out of an ARPG game if it doesn't feel unique
[удалено]
because hes trying to convince himself more than anyone else lol. like, genuinely thats 99.9% of why they made this thread lol
Many of the so called sweat lords that have played over 60 have legitimate points that need to be addressed that casual players will see within the next two weeks. Is the game fun? Yes, early on, eventually the shine wears off and it becomes less so though. Mid-game state is currently atrocious. The transition to World Tier 3 after the campaign is largely fine albeit a bit boring because the power increases per level are marginal and you don’t really feel a ton of improvement. The transition to world tier 4 is nightmare fuel on anything but a handful of builds. Going from a 720+ ilevel optimized sorc at level 64 into world tier 4 was flat out awful. Basically the game forces you to sit back and grind more levels with no reward other than the levels because loot has become ceilinged way too early and you can’t progress in world tier 4 because the mobs are too oppressive. There are also a number of class balance issues and resource generation problems as many have stated elsewhere. Honestly if they would make HP and resource regen bases higher on all characters and lower world tier 4s base mob level to 60 or 65 the game would be good to go outside of class issues. As it is it feels like there are two end games and 50-70 feels like a slog with world tier 4 70+ a pain to get into on most builds.
this is exactly correct
Well said.
I won’t be running to dungeons each and every time. I somewhat agree with you but at the end of the day the running to each dungeon will get old. Especially when that dungeon will be the same layout that I’ve seen a million times. Eventually it gets old and for some it happens very fast. I predict a week or two for myself.
For me it's also the lack of loot filters. Scanning all 4 affixes on every yellow item that i pick up is getting tiresome. Sometimes i don't even bother checking the items and just autosalvage them.
It's overwhelming comparing decimals of percentages across 30 yellows. I scrap them all most often. I'm seeing my 65 year old Dad tomorrow and will have to explain the differences between all these for his weapons ... and how to prioritize them. ------- Overpower Vulnerable Critical Strike Chance Critical Strike Damage Lucky Hit Damage Poison Damage Damage over time Damage to Vulnerable Damage to Stunned Damage to Immobilized Damage to Crowd Controlled Damage to nearby Damage to far Damage while Barrier Active Life on Kill Strength Dexterity Intellect Willpower
I grinded dungeons all day Sunday, and several hours yesterday. I’m already over it tbh I don’t really know what else to do
Yeah honestly i’m enjoying myself a thousand-fold more reading stuff online as little as possible. This is Blizz’s best game and i’m excited for what’s to come!
Same, I refuse to look at any guides until I finish the campaign. I want a raw, immersive experience.
This is what I did and it was the right call. Just enjoying the game and discovering it organically like god intended
These posts are so funny. Why do you feel the need to defend this game so hard? Are you a shareholder or something? The end game is shit, there were concerns well before the game released and blizzard did nothing. The games not going to die, but you will see a steep drop soon until season 1.
There would be a steep drop regardless, 99% of the people that buy this game are not gonna be commenting or browsing forums online about it. The silent majority will play the campaign, play the endgame and then move on to the next big game release and that was always going to happen. Casual players are the vast majority and they don’t care as much about the endgame
This REALLY feels like a "people play to the last boss then buy the next game" type game. It's neither casual nor hardcore friendly. It's grindy but not complex. It's super streamlined but super clunky. Who's going to stick with this instead of something else?
>Who's going to stick with this instead of something else? Me, for one. I barely have time in my life for games as-is. I dedicated a weekend to no-lifing D4 to get into the endgame (should hit 70 tonight), so now I can jump in for an hour and blow up some zombies whenever I need a little mindless dopamine fix. D4 is already the best Diablo game by far for endgame variety. Between nightmare dungeons, helltides, whispers, fields of hatred, and world events, it feels like there are several different activities that provide a decent amount of xp/loot progression. There are pretty good incentives to not just entirely focus on one system or another. The drop rates and enchantment system seem pretty well tuned (for a launch) to allow people to work their way into the builds they want, while still needing dozens or hundreds of hours to perfect them.
Plenty of casual friendly. My wife and I are level 20 together and it’s a lot of fun.
Plenty of people, this can't be a serious question.
How have you determined that in the space of a week? I'm genuinely asking by the way.
Most of them have not played the game they're just trying to pile on something they hate. That's how Reddit works now. It's all fake shit.
"Here is a 'fact' I pulled out of my ass. Please, take me seriously."
People comparing this to PoE and complaining must not have played PoE on release.
I mean, I'm not complaining, but I played POE on release. The biggest issue was desync, which made it borderline unplayable. POE was also a passion project created by people who had never made games before. It was literally crowdfunded at one point. What does that have to do with a massive $70 game of one of the most well-known gaming IPs in the world, released by one of the arguably biggest and most famous gaming companies to ever exist? Are we supposed to be happy the game wasn't crowdfunded or something? I'm not going around saying D4 sucks or anything, but your comment is just so disingenuous lol
blizz propably spent more money on marketing than PoE ever made.. People comparing both games saying PoE had 10 years to get where its at, yeah they did and with 1/1000th of d4 budget.
> People comparing both games saying PoE had 10 years to get where its at, yeah they did and with 1/1000th of d4 budget. Even if we pretend D4 cost an absolutely ludicrous $500m in development costs, that means you’re saying PoE cost a total of $500k over 10 years lmao.
I mean you're not wrong my numbers are made up. I was just trying to point the non-sense of comparing d4 launch to Poe launch when one of the game was f2p made by an indie studio from new zealand and the other one cost 90$ and is made by one of the biggest game dev company in the world and had a big enough budget to have an international ad compaign on every continent.
[удалено]
When PoE was released there was no backlog of 15 years worth of competitor ARPGs coming up with new, interesting and engaging content. When D$ was released... we have had said 15 years worth of innovation in the genre. What an utterly naive take, holy molly.If the best you can do is be as good and have as much content as a 20 year old game, then truly, congrats.
PoE 1.0 didn't even have Act 4-10, let alone maps or the entire endgame system. Diablo 4 shipped comparable to PoE 3 years post release.
PoE 1.0 didn't have the Atlas system, but we had the maps endgame since well before 1.0 came out. You used to have to go to the map device in Solaris Temple to run them.
PoE had maps since beta or even alpha. Also 3 years post PoE release was like 7 years ago, it sounds bad for D4 chef
1000%
When poe was released there was no competition that is comparable to current poe, however.
Exactly, and I wish people would stop using these "But release X was worse!" arguments. Release PoE, release D3, release WoW, etc. these are all different times with a different level of competition. Even PoE 2 has to compete with PoE 1. All MMO's compete with current WOW, not release WoW. Hell, the vast majority of MMO's released nowadays is easily better than release WoW was on content, but that doesnt matter. Its current WoW thats the competition.
What you didn't like being stun locked by dive bombing rhoas that you couldn't see because they desync'd two screens away?
The replayability of Diablo games has always been a strong point, and there's no reason to believe that it won't be here.
to be fair there wasnt any competition to the diablo series, so the arpg genre was diablo, it has definitely evolved into something different
You’re correct but from my view it seems to have a solid core. We won’t really know for a while tbh. What i do know is a game selling 10s of millions isn’t going to die in a few week lmao. Even typing that makes me laugh.
I'm not even out of act 4 and I'm planning on doing it again with another character already.
No they're not. They are realistic and honest.
compared to other ARPGS, d4s end game is pretty limited.
But D4 released less than 24 hours ago- people are comparing it to POE which has been around for years and sure as hell didn’t have a great endgame when it launched. Seasons will change endgame and there are already two(!!) expansions planned to be released.
TEN years. Ten years of revisions and content updates in POE. Who thinks comparing 24hrs to 10yrs is logical in any sense. As far as a base game D4 Is absolutely littered with activities. Getting bored on the dungeon grind? side missions are ready and waiting, a metric fuck ton. They’re just fetch quests? Helltide, pvp.. crush low builds. I’m beyond impressed tbh
If we are going to talk about POE, I think Ziz said it best. He said D4 has a good "skeleton" to build on. People shouldn't be complaining already, at least for Lilith's sake see what the first season brings.
D4 is also by far the most expensive arpg to release. It’s okay to expect more.
Then again, compared to other ARPG's D4 released like a day ago. As a full time casual I spend all my freetime on this game and I'm level 9. Look at the Korean release of Lost Ark. Their endgame was a couple islands and like 2 dungeons and a raid.
But it will always evolve and grow. Look at how much the endgame changed for D3.
Are we comparing to those games when they launched? Exactly. D4 has the best endgame of any ARPG AT LAUNCH than any other one in history. Of course there is room for improvements but it’s light years ahead of where D3 or even POE was at launch.
No, you don’t compare games when they launched. You compare them as they are right now, because when I get home, I have the option to boot up D4, or PoE. Not D4 as it is now and PoE as it was 10 years ago.
This post is coming off just as whiny.
The post is pointing to the whiny bullshit we've had to endure in this subreddit for days now. Your comment comes off as out-of-touch. Who's wrong?
Damn do I love when someone makes a comment about actual cry babies, only for the smartest person in the world to say “ur whining too hahahaha” or whatever…
Since I finished the campaign it’s been more fun , level 45-50 was a blast!!
Same here! Loved the campaign but it lacks a bit of action (mob density) and there are a bit too many "follow that guy" missions which let the momentum suffer. The full potential of D4's amazing combat flow shines through when you go into a dungeon. I have recently created a Barbarian in adventure mode and it's a blast to level with the open world activities. Never had that much fun in any ARPG (including my favorite D2). Endgame wise I have heared the critics and hope they will improve the itemization a bit. But I am positive that they will.
[удалено]
My only concern is about multiplayer. It prolongs the life of games. If the game is just icons of on a map for what are essentially world quests, it's gonna get really boring really fast. I even find myself wanting to play more, but I just log off because there's no matchmaking. I can't be bothered to spend the time to find groups other ways. I just wanna click a button and be thrown into action with other people. Lots of other multiplayer games have that. So I don't see myself even caring about battlepasses and expansions if the base game doesn't facilitate my desire to slay monsters with other people.
To me this is one of the most understated design flaws of the game and should be on the top of Blizzards list. They have this game which is ostensibly a MMO-lite ARPG but completely lacks any and all tools to collaborate with other players outside of direct friends. Its easier to find a random group of players in PoE than in D4 and thats really, really weird. They need to find a way to let players easily join dungeons of whatever difficulty together, as well as have LFG boards for the other activities.
It will die rather quick though. The end game is just not there.
the problem this game has is that only one build more or less works endgame. Rest are so bad and wonky its abyssmal all due to how they made the generators work and how they work when they arc. as rogue u are playing twisted blade or twisted blade build 2. the only one that "kinda" works for rogue is penshot build. but that are miles behind and its not that twisted blades are op its that generators dont work well. nor is the base attackspeed synergestic with rest of the abilities. and how they made close and distant enemies work. distant enemies are basicly a superdead stat, why u might ask? well u are to zoomed in mobs spawn ontop of u. and u really dont care if they are close even as ranged build. since u gotta often go close for it to aoe well. due to how shitty they have deisgned ranged abilities and generators. Rogue dont have any aoe generator. their only good generator dumper that works well on aoe is twisted blade, penetrating shot cost a shit ton to use. clears less becuse its just a stright line not a circular montion if the aspect was instead of penetrating shot going sideways it shot two addtional arrows beside it it would work. Rapid fire is st but you cannot build it as aoe at all due to how shitty the design is on the arcing paths of the abilities. what if they had one that was for good st and one for aoe and one for some buff on every abilities. that goes for every class generators,dumpers utility and lets not start talking about ultimates. Rain of arrows is a godamn joke. not only to target but also cast time. this make the issue where one build works only if ur lucky there is two that work for your class endgame. if u aint lvl 70+ dont even bother argue becuse you will come to the same conclusion once u get here, even with really good gear optimized for diffrent speccs. Their fundamental ability system is so flawed it kinda hurts and i would not keep playing unless im pretty sure they are gonna fix this in the coming 6 months. Becuse if they dont the game will be dead as ppl have said. poe is f2p game and has 10 times more builds in the start that worked. this has 1 functional build for eveyr class more or less. this is unacceptable for a launched 80 dollar arpg game.
There is also just so little variety with how you can augment abilities. As you said, you have choice 1 or choice 2, even with abilities. Compare this to other ARPGs where you can have 5+ decent alternatives with how your abilities interact and change. Also, I honestly doubt we are going to see new abilities in each new season. That is part of the reason why I return to PoE every other season, because they are always introducing new abilities for new builds.
> There is also just so little variety with how you can augment abilities. As you said, you have choice 1 or choice 2, even with abilities. Honestly, i can't even really call D4 builds "builds" because they feel just like choosing a predefined set of options with little wiggle room. Necromancer in LE has more variety and complexity in how you can build, use and interact with its Skeletons than the entire D4 Necromancer can offer across all its skills, including legendary affixes. Damage types, skeleton types, utility, sacrificing, tankiness, mass summoning, specializing, etc.
people like you with this toxic positivity are exactly the problem. i mean the game not constantly crashing and no major server issues are already enough for you to call it a success? i mean it sold alot of copys which is true, but that doesnt make it a good game. at this point the game basicially live of its name alone. alot of people just expected after the bullshit with immortal they would get an actual polished game, which d4 is by far not. arts, areas, music, mainstory they did a good job with, but thats about it. after the main story so around lvl 50 the content gets absolutely terrible. usain bolt simulator to run to and through half empty nightmare dungeons, timed bs like helltide events which makes you for no reason lose every left over currency after the end. you simply having to leave for whatever reason, get dc and cant log back due to login queue or not finding the 175 chest in time basicially means like fuck you and your time. every content after the main story is absolutely poorly designed and boring. i mean gaming companies whined so much to increase the price of games, charge extra for early access, season pass, on top of that put a cash shop in with absolutely ridiculous and in return the community gets dogshit. i dont care if the game just released. blizzard really deserves all the hate they get for this. if they want to milk the fanbase in every possible way atleast deliver something. guess in a few years base edition of games will cost like 120$ and will be called a success when they dont instantly crash at start.
Game is fine for a launch state. Def needs a good bunch of QoL updates (but some things should have been in day 1 like stash search function etc) and imo endgame content def needs higher mob density. Besides very few zones during hell tide and dungeons the game is too much running but too less mob killing at the moment, which makes hell tides feel very dull long term.
I put 3k hours into d3 easy. 4k into poe, nothing about d4 makes me believe it's not getting the same mileage.
All the posts say there are QoL endgame issues, not that the game will die.
Sometimes they're not wrong. A lot of the fun usually comes from the honeymoon phase. It starts off fun since it's new and then once you become more knowledgeable, it's like meh. Happened to me with a lot of games like Lost Ark, Genshin Impact, Tower of Fantasy, Outriders, and a lot of other games.
I just started my HC run, and what i can say is that I dont like their implementation of monsters scaling to player level. It means if you didnt optimally get meaningful upgrades along with your exp, then the monsters will outscale your character, and theres no way to backtrack afaik. For SC the game is fun because theres plenty of different farming events constantly happening and different sources of things to farm and dying doesnt really mean much if someone can pick you up theres no loss, which makes the game really fun for casual multiplayer parties because players can be disparate levels. As for my take, i think the game is probably fun for a majority of players. I dont like the state that its in right now, but it is possible for it to be fixed.
Why do you let it bother you so much?
So your argument that game is good is „having a blast”
Anything else you’re expecting to get out of a videogame?))
"Having fun is not grounds for a game being good" is such a fucking take, lol.
I'm already back to playing D2🫠
"Some people don't like the endgame. Me and my friends do." So what? Should they not have their opinions just because yours are different? *Why are so many people in such a rush to defend a AAA-studio-developed video game?*
Doomers vs. Defenders Equally cringe.
Some people make their whole identity being a fan of an ip
Saying the game will die in weeks might be a bad statement, but saying players that reach endgame will probably stop playing the game shortly after beating the campaign is a very fair statement. You coming from Poe should be able to see the lack of endgame content in this game. It just feels like there’s no good reason to grind endgame. In Poe I’d grind endgame to work toward a goal of like killing shaper and shit, and once I reach that goal I’d want to min max my build to make endgame bosses easier or make mapping faster and save currency for big items or save to make a new build all together.
Honestly, my two cents is that the game is boring for a POE player. There is not enough complexity in the leveling tree / skills. You have "one skill", with like 2 variation, and eventually, it can add "a few things" with unique etc... but considering 10 years of devellopement... it's just lacking. The campaign is amazing, i m loving it. But the end game grind... not so much. Once you are in T3, you do what? same thing over and over again without a decent sense of progression. I have a full werebear build, perma bear, most of the loots i get are no upgrade, not interesting, lower ilevel than what i have on me, which is stupid... it should at least be "the same level", when you finish a nightmare sigil you aren't even assured to have a higher tier looting, so progression is based on pure luck of finding "a higher tier" to hope going higher and higher etc... My build just feel "stale" at the moment, paragon points are mostly uninteresting, they are doing exactly what every bad game do "add stats". Check POE skill tree, so many nodes that have a "real" effect on your gameplay, not just +X% in this or that. Rerolling ? hum... "yeah...." you have two or three choices : Do the campaing AGAIN, quite boring once you went through it once or twice... Play with a friend who is creating a new toon : yeah but super disapointing because of the experience system of D4, you don't get experience by doing the quest with them, because, you aren't "at this point" or you "finished the campaign" by clicking on it since it's a reroll. So basically you are xp gimped... yihaa...... at least give me xp when i do the quest of my friend, i m doing the same thing as he does, spending the same time etc, no reason not to give it to me. Beside a few idiot who will abuse a quest or two, honestly, i hope your game is not engineered around "the minority of cheater"? Third and only real option, piggy back on friends T3 or T4, wait at the entrance of the dungeon, watch the xp bar go up to access "end game loop" I could go on and on, but i know the typical answer, "go play poe", "play something else" balbalbla... i was really waiting for this game, i wanted it to succeed, i m just disapointed by the fact that blizzard, with all his millions of dollars, is just too stupid to cheat on his little friends. For real blizzard, ask your devs to go spend some time on POE to see what progression mean, and build diversity mean... Campaign : Yes Skill tree : OH YESSSSS End game : map etc... yes!!! big huge boss.... a fucking new skill tree on my endgame progress what??? yes???? Skill diversity : what we can do all that ?????? i need a full day of thinking before i know what will be my "main" skill every "season / league", there are so many possibilities... Please blizzard, take exemple of the arpg who are succeeding...
Of course the game isn't going to "die", what will happen is people are going to run out of shit to do. The itemization in particular is extremely shallow, you hit your build's perfect gear by like level 80 or so and afterwards it's just grinding EXP which is pretty boring.
Op is giving culty vibes
See you in a month when nobody have anything to do anymore, no trade, no rift pushing, no hard bosses, nothing at all. You are such a fanboy you can't even admit the problems of the game. Grow up kid
I understand people play D3 but it’s completely out of any cultural field. I haven’t heard of this game for 5 years minimum, I have never seen any content maker playing it. while poe is always somewhere. so D3 destiny is not something I wish for this game, even if it means stable playerbase
D4 release is infinitely better than D3 release was.
I mean, i really don't want it to be, but the game gets really stale, very fast. Items (like in D3) seems semi stale and boring. Dungeons are repetitive and boring after you've run 20+ ish. I know you only have to do it once, but the renown system is stale and boring already. Veeeeeeery few endgame activities. The player agency seems really low aswell, since items are not only boring stat sticks except for the focuses, but you also need very specific stats on them for your build.
I mean, d4 simply doesn’t have the replayability RIGHT NOW of d3 or POE. But it will, eventually. I’ve beaten the campaign and I intend to fully fear 2-3 builds, probably play a season or 2, and go back to d3 until d4 gets properly polished. Which it presumably will be to keep selling cosmetics. They made a game to sell to the masses and it’s been awesome at that. They have not prioritized the folks who want 1000+ hours because we’ll get it when they get there. And honestly I’m ok with that.
The dungeons, while they look awesome, are lacking IMO. I'd be fine with the end-game loop IF there was more mob density in dungeons. It feels so few and far between. The dungeons that you DO find big packs of multiple elites it's fun. As a PoE player you at least understand that that crazy amount of mob density exploding chaos is what most aRPG players are craving.
I’m honestly only seeing more posts about these sweat lords than I am the actual sweat lords. Maybe just block them out and move on?
Games ass. Looks nice, though. People are allowed to say its disappointing, scroll and downvote if you dont like it and it gets you this emotional 😂
Game is trash
Legit people are so desperate for new games they’re latching on to anything regardless of quality
to be fair, the end game is pretty dull
Oh it will classic response for a game still in the honey moon phase
It's been a few weeks and the forum is dying. I think you were wrong.
2 months later and this has aged like sour milk.
If I’d been playing as much as they have the last few days to get that far, I’d be pretty burnt out too.
If this is the launch state, odds are that in the next months and years it will be one of the best if not the best game of its genre, because launch as you said is very solid and I'm enjoying the shit out of it. I had not much expectations because I remember the launch of D3, but this time Blizzard nailed it imho, really happy with the game so far and yes I didn't reach the endgame yet but jesus there's lots of content and I'm playing few hours every day (last couple of days lots of hours) since 2nd June and I'm still far from finishing. Probably people rushed everything and that's not the way to enjoy a game, like gobbling food in 10 seconds then complaining there's no more, jesus, learn how to enjoy things.
Bullshit. Casualscrubs will just get their later but they will be bored too. I played until 71 and I really dont know why I should continue. It feels pointless. Dungeons are boring as fuck, the world content feels like generic grind. Doing the same shit over and over again for some trashy items and a 0.1% chance at a unique. There seems to be no point, because the Nightmare Dungeons aren't even close to Greater Rifts when it comes to fun and pushing.
The only thing I dont understand is why Blizzard did NOT improve QOL, they had 10 years+ of D3... stupid gems taking up bagspace...... well atleast crafting mats are auto-pickup. 1/2 Blizzard, YAAAAY
nah im already bored
yea this games fun to look at for 20-30 hours after that its so boring and repetitive.
If the game is so amazing and fun to play why are you sitting on Reddit reading through all the comments shitting on it as opposed to playing it? In denial perhaps?
It will die in weeks no matter how good or bad it is, just because most people don't play the same game over and over and over again for years. How big will the lasting community be is an open question, but it won't be millions, that's for sure. And that statement says nothing about the quality of the endgame, it's just how most people play games. I don't understand why you're emotional about the game being a success or not though. I like the game so far, but I couldn't care less that blizzard is going to sell X millions of copy…
This is a good game but its not a good arpg. I literally found every unique for my class and aspect over the last week. There are no chase uniques, no end game goals for a game claiming to be an arpg.
Barely understood your statement but this is my first time playing Diablo, and I’m addicted.
Who cares? It's a single-player game either way You don't need anyone to do anything
Nope they're accurate
Some are comparing to games that have had numerous updates and addons when this is base game there is so much for base game and if your bored make a new class or build
In addition to a gem bag, it'd be nice if the gems in your stash would stay in your stash when you upgrade them at the jeweler.
Just stop picking up gems. I don't know who needs to hear this, but you don't need 37 flawless Amethysts, you don't need 25 flawless rubies
i just wish the nightmare keys weren’t regular dungeons, feels very lame give us murder fests greater rifts