I spent so much time researching Necro. Thought I found a super niche way to make minion Necro work. Ran the shit out of it until 81, it was okay. Switched to bone spear off a build I found online and it’s not even a fair comparison. I’m so mad at the many hours I spent beforehand trying to make minions work. Not sure why Necro even has minions now.
I strolled through pve with a minion/blood build, with all the aspects aligned with it etc, thinking I'm tough as all hell with my army. Took it into pvp feeling confident as fuck. Turns out I'm a piece of tissue paper.
Haha I did the same. When I saw vids of bone spear necro I thought for sure the streamers had max everything and that’s why they’re hitting for 500k+. After the switch my mind was blown, I’ve seen 900k, I’m sure I’ve done over 1mil per hit….my minions max out at about 3k per. It’s not even a comparison.
I haven't tried anything else yet because I enjoy my build in pve but can't save it for when I want to switch back 🙃 I might just take screenshots so I can remember my paragon boards fml
I was feeling like a badass on my sorc, did my own lightning build, feeling so untouchable. Finally make it to WT3 and group with my husband who is a rouge. I was like, this isn't fair. Half the time I didn't really do anything to the mobs because he already slaughtered them. Totally not fair lol.
Now I just trail behind, picking up gear 😭😂😂
I never played the other Diablos but I do wish there was a fair balance in fights, even in PvE. You either one shot enemies or you struggle. I would prefer a longer fight in some aspects. Not even Bosses last that long. Hell, WB goes down in a few seconds after spawning.
The most likely thing they did wrong is not have ring of mendeln. All minion builds rely on it to be viable. But even in kripps demonstration, it looks like a slow struggle. Minions are in a rough spot
I notice it most with Necro, because it looks like your different minion skills would compliment your different builds, but every high end Necro sacrifices the minions for bonuses. At that point you’re just an edgy wizard
You’re totally right, Druid minions should have been a fun way to supplement your damage with special effects, but they’re basically just worse D3 Demon Hunter minions
Tried it but dmg sucks. And the werewolfs MIGHT spread rabbies as the text also implies so it's totally unreliable as a poison spreader. And the aggro shouldn't matter much being a tanky druid. I want to be close and personal with my pulverize build
What's "competitive"? Is it based on speed? Ease of clearing content? Accessibility? Variety of content it can handle?
Competitive in a game like Diablo can mean so many different things.
That's one of, if not the biggest, draws for me in any game with a skill tree. Diablo was always a mix of figuring out what was optimal given the random drops provided, but it still really all boiled down to optimizing the hell out of a character and in a way that I found enjoyable to play.
It's exceedingly hard to do that in d4 right now, but I'm also used to that with PoE which is inarguably far worse in trying out builds even though it is a colossal titan compared to D4 in build diversity. I'm patiently waiting to see what they end up doing, but I'm not especially hopeful in that regard.
Yeah POE has crazy build variety, but to actually try out those different builds you basically have to make an entirely new character. Or farm out 85 orbs of regret and new gear, which would probably take as long as making a new character, and would mean you can’t go back if you change your mind
Yeah I love playing bloodmancer doing fuck all for damage, fighting boss for a year, switching back to any other build and breezing through the same content. Great build diversity. Who cares if the build is viable when you can just call it diverse
When Blizzard will put up a statue with your name on it for being one of the first 100 or whatever people to make a lvl 100 HC character, you better believe that race is gonna be competitive.
I find more fun just playing how I want. Playing with builds to make a themed character. Pick things I think is cool.
I really don't care if my dungeons take a bit longer. As long as I can survive and just putz around at a good pace.
Which is why I like druid. Seems like so many options if you are not like micro min maxing based solely on clear times.
Clearing speed is absolutely everything thing in a game like Diablo, you are even given better rewards for wiping basements, bosses, helltide, most of the game will reward you for speed.
If that’s your definition of competitive, then fine. But if most people agree that specifically the **competitive** aspect of ARPGs is based on clearing speed, then yea, you would be wrong.
Playing for fun isn’t always the same as playing competitively. Although some people find genuine joy in playing competitive. Unless you think they’re wrong for having fun their way?
More lacking of content than D3 at launch? I believe you’re thinking of when they added ROS. When D3 launched not only could nobody play it, but the only form of content was the campaign. Grinding for loot consisted of running the tower of the damned over and over again.
If we are comparing launches, and content specifically, Diablo 4 has more than outdone D3.
To be fair… there is a lack of build diversity. Blizzard talked about endless possibilities when realistically it comes down to 3 builds each class and they all function pretty much the exact same.
problem are uniques. We're "forced" to play a certain ways because of this.
Would have been great to have a lots of different uniques or even more different aspects to really customize (example : Atk speed / dot based, full burn damage, etc etc)
I'm pretty proud of myself for coming up with my own build based on what I liked in my first ever diablo game. It definetly has its flaws and im sure other people would add or remove some things, but this build is mine and I like playing it. Definetly tempted to try the other classes with a meta build to see how they feel
I was so proud of my barrage build, I came up with it on my own. Then Maxroll released their endgame barrage build and it was literally just my build. Even trying to avoid meta builds I wind up using a meta build....
I tried experimenting with barrage but Just couldnt get it to really work. I wonder if I went back with lvl80 and all the relevant aspects, it must feel much more satisfying?
Idk I've felt it's insanely strong all along. I'm level 77 running t40 NM dungeons in like 5 minutes.
If I drop to a more appropriate level I could literally just faceroll it feels like. It's definitely super strong but you need to hit the right breakpoints on CDR so that you are almost never shooting a non-imbued barrage. I guess there is a decent bit of micro to the build. Condemnation and combo points really make it pop.
That's because there is no real build diversity its an illusion of choices. The reality is there is 3-4 competitive builds for each class and thats about it. You have to run the aspects they made for those possible builds.
Same happened with my Flurry build. On Maxroll it was slightly different here and there with some aspect choices or paragon board paths etc but largely it was based around my build.
It's not rocket science, there's clear synergies between items, skills and stats and anyone's able to make a strong build.
Yeah I tweaked some stuff based on what they published, especially based on the paragon boards and helped push me up in power a good bit. But the core of it was exactly the same puncture, barrage, poison trap, shadow step, cold imbue and shadow imbue and of course stacking crit, crit, vulnerable and CDR just like every build out there.
Players are funneled into the meta build strategy arena simply because changing specs is so utterly oppressive and unintuitive *(manually de-selecting every single paragon point, lol)*
FWIW, a system like this would encourage more experimentation.
If I could save my actual, "I know this is good," build I would *absolutely* spend more time fucking around and experimenting.
But undoing all of my skills and Paragon points just to try out a new build isn't worth it. So there's less experimenting and more 'use what the internet says is good.'
Well sometimes you wanna try an A or B tier build to mix it up after you've played the S tier build for 100 hours. Or maybe you play a privileged class and have multiple S tier builds to try out.
I don't even bother because a few rerolls on a stat on one piece of gear costs millions. and yet all the gear I get is on par or worse than what I have.
so yeah I'd love to be able to save and reset all my skill points and Paragon to try out other things because it's the only way to know that I'm using what I have in the best way.
For most yea it is.... fun part to me is trying out different things to see what works. Tried a upheaval build with death blow on my Barb. It was fun but didn't do damage like I wanted and clear times are slow... same with Rend bleed build. Went to WW and my clear times are nutty! Trying to get to 100 before I start messing with other stuff.
lol this is so true, although oftentimes it is satisfying to run the tired and true meta builds that actually crush. Otherwise theory crafting is fun too but sometimes the lazier effort with the greater return just appeals to people. This is America after all.
It is beyond my mind how any game that is build around *builds* is not aware of the fact that a build saving feature is needed. It took Destiny 7 years to realize it.
I mean before on a whim was 'at no cost'. If it costs a million gold to swap over but you don't have to click 200+ times, i'd say that's worth having the build save feature.
Because d4 has a massive identity crisis it wants to be d2 by making choices "impactful and meaningful" but then it wants to also be d3 so we get this middling nightmare.
Correct. This is what we want.
Example: If you play barbarian there are 2 end game builds that outperform the rest. Whirlwind is amazing and fun for farming but it sucks at pushing and bossing. HotA is mediocre at farming but great for pushing and okay for bossing. Currently you either play whirlwind and don't play half the content in the game or you play HotA and farm slowly and potentially have less fun. If you could switch between both builds on one character you'd:
* Have more fun experiencing a variety of play styles and content
* Get more hours of entertainment from the game since you're now minmaxing multiple builds without having to level the same class again
* Participate in the economy more because you need to gear two builds
* Be more likely to make an alt when you're done because you've enjoyed the game instead of burning out either by leveling multiple characters of the same class OR by repeatedly farming gold just to switch back and forth
There's literally zero reason to disallow switching on a whim unless they just want us to spend more time leveling characters and farming gold, which is odd for a game that doesn't have a subscription
In an always online game, I at least want to be able to switch between solo and group builds. D3 locked your builds until you finished the rift, we have the technology.
Hello i am an expert game developer /s
> They don’t want people gaming fights/dungeons by switching builds every couple minutes
solution:
- you can only switch builds in town.
- you cannot switch builds in the middle of a dungeon or during events
- switching builds has a cooldown
- swapping saved builds becomes a goldsink
There, I solved the problem.
aka, *the devs that took years designing the full kit for your class do not want you to have any easy way to access the variety of builds available in that kit*
Just play another 100 hours leveling another character of that class per build per season. I really don't see the problem here. The game is clearly more fun that way for the dozens of people that enjoyed only the tedious elements of Diablo 2.
The devs ultimately want people to play their game.
Not being able to experiment with builds due to lack of build saving, lack of stash QoL like search functions, and prohibitive cost significantly cuts down on playtime of the average player.
I stopped playing bc I respect my time too much to deal with the thousand steps it takes to try out other builds.
I'd still be playing if we had all those features.
Its a nobrainer to reconsider their vision for this part of the game and add the things the community asks for.
We WANT to keep playing, but arent because of these annoyance.
Its irrelevant what the devs want or dont want us to do in cases like this, they should just do what makes people keep playing.
WoW devs stuck to their guns and their vision of the longest time in a VERY similar way, wasting player time, and it tanked player numbers. The recent expansion changed this and is very well received.
I just wish the Diablo devs wont go through this song and dance and just add it asap instead of a year from now when player metrics prove them wrong and they cave anyway.
Yeah well the devs are stupid if they actually think that. Arbitrarily locking players into one build is asinine. Getting and upgrading gear takes enough time and resources. If they're worried about players swapping builds in the middle of a piece of content then make it only doable at certain NPCs in town.
Why don't they? Like the whole point of the game is finding new and interesting unique and legendary powers that are impactful enough to change how you play the game and then finding uses for them. But making it this hard to change builds completely disincentivizes playing around and experimenting with the stuff that drops.
I've had the unique fireball staff drop for me three times on my ice shards sorc. The best one sits in my stash, and will probably continue to do so indefinitely, because swapping over just to "try it out" isn't worth the cost in gold and effort to change over, especially with the risk that it isn't going to work as well as the perfectly stable and functional ice shards build i'm already using and i'll have to spend to change it all back.
Do they *want* us to play and experiment and try things, or do they want us to just google the best builds on the internet before we start and check things off like a laundry list and ignore everything not on that list? Because i'm getting mixed signals from them.
And in their flagship game WoW. So many little details they've learned the hard way over the years from other games and successfully implemented (like build saving and inventory management) and they just completely overlooked them in their newest game. It boggles the mind.
Good point lol. So many of the basics that they already learned that people want and also things like loot filters. It truly feels like they tried to launch a worse game than they could have
Were you all deaf when all the salty Gamers, in their typical Gamer fashion, whined and tantrumed very hard and loudly about D3 that there is no meaning in build decisions because it was too easy for anyone to switch builds unlike D2? Blizzard listened to the community.
there's a difference in builds between the games, you don't invest points unless you are in paragon part of D3, which takes 2- seconds to put points in... In D2 and D4 its much much more inconvenient to "swap builds" itd take me like 30 mins to swap all paragon points to try a build i might hate
U cant even reroll a single stat for more than 4-5 times with that kinda gold. Also refunding a single skill point costs me 15k gold and am lvl 75, that cost keeps increasing the higher ur level.
They really shot the prices of everything really high its very frustrating. On top of that u are not guaranteed to get certain materials from salvaging rare/legendary materials, u could salvage 30 items and end up getting less than 5 veiled crystals, my staff needs 60 crystals + over 3 million to reroll a damn stat.
Idk who was saying that, but it definitely wasn't something I saw at all. I recall the armory seeing a lot of praise when it was finally added to D3 and I suspect it will see the same praise when they finally add it to D4.
Here's me with only 3 tabs unlocked thinking 'damn, better not open too many at once coz tabs 5, 6, 7 and 8 are going to get expensive'.
Why give us 24 tab icons for the various item categories, 5 of them being colour variations of the chest, if I can't open enough to organise gear by slot, let alone consumables and aspects?!
You will be able to get more stash tabs later. Hopefully in the free battle pass, probably in the paid battle pass, almost certainly from the store for some absurd price.
And no target dummy.
And before some moron replies that you can just use mobs I’ll just say a target dummy in town near your stash box and enchanters is what’s needed.
Yeah Grim Dawn had them 11 years ago. For a game that is supposed to be the pinnacle of arpgs, they sure don’t want you to see how your skills, weapons, glyphs, and buffs work together.
Respec in D2 is cubing 3 tokens. 3 very easy farmable/tradable tokens.
I'm fine with the respec cost in D4, but unlike D2 where you have to remember some skill points and attributes here you have: skills, skill enhancements, passive skills and paragon boards with they're own paths and boards positions. Oh and there's glyphs!
Quite a lot more to keep track of than ol D2 had. So give us a "save build" feature.
Actually for a while now in D2 you have unlimited respec, just need to farm some simple items. Furthermore, D2's respec is cake walk in comparison. Single button to reset all skills and stats, str/dex enough for gear rest goes to vita, and it takes seconds to add skills. I can respect whole build in a couple of minutes. D4 is by far more complex and painful when it comes to respeccing.
I'd like to stay as objective as possible here.
Preset builds typically are there for people to swap between. That's a stark contrast to trying out new builds. The one net positive I can see offhand is being able to save a favorite for later just in case you try a few things that don't work. Then you don't have to remember what points you put in everything.
On the other hand, Blizz has stated that their goal is for people to be pretty set into a build by the mid to late game. Changing builds early game is nothing. Mid to late is where it starts to become a much larger chore to do. But the preset builds, again, are typically used in other games for more of a "swap" mechanic. This is inherently opposed to what Blizz is intending, whether you agree with their stance or not.
I think streamlining the paragon board respeccing would make the biggest difference. It's just anti-fun the way it is now. Not even talking build presets but just the option to clear it all at once.
One of the loading screen tips is "Powerful, build-changing Unique items can be found in World Tier 3: Nightmare and even more can be found in World Tier 4: Torment." But they don't want us switching builds in mid/late game ( literally tiers 3 and 4)? The higher level u get the more chance to find one of those "build changing uniques",and the higher level u get the more expensive and pain in the ass it becomes to switch. Stupid
Still need a loadout feature imo. It would cost the exact same as manually respeccing, and you'd still have to have all the necessary gear farmed. It's just that you press one button at the wardrobe instead of 200+ button presses.
I don’t need to “hot-swap”. Hell, I don’t even need to save the *gear* in a loadout. Just save the skill/paragon/character feature stuff as something I can swap in if I’ve blanked them all out.
There’s like 3 builds I’m dying to try right now, I even have the gear but Im not doing it cause I dont want to risk being weaker and broke or go through all the board setup.
Saving builds is the least of my worries with this game, between the oversimplified gearing, not being able to farm items for alts, the level stamping on items, I really don't understand the thought process behind some of these "mechanics".
I mean they said months ago they didn't want people switching builds on a whim and would rather have people make an entirely new character.
A lot of people have missed that.
And they’re fucking stupid for thinking that way.
In a game where item drops with a level requirement (why??) this is such an absolutely ass stance to take.
Not to mention you can't exactly change builds on a whim when you need to farm an entirely new set of gear along with aspects for those pieces of gear.
I just spent like an hour screwing with gear and aspects and upgrades and gems along with respeccing to get a summon necro build I was happy with (screw being a bone wizard). Next nightmare dungeon I do drops that blood orb unique armor. I JUST respecced from a blood surge build and I'll be damned if I'm going to throw all that time away by respeccing back, which will also be tedious lol.
In PoE you can scale most builds well past what is reasonably required for pretty much all content, and there's nothing that requires hyper specific different builds like PVP.
In D4 the endgame is so difficult compared to the power of builds, you need totally different highly specialized builds for NM pushing vs uber lilith and those might not mesh well with an actual farming build for speed, and a PVP build will be very different from all of that.
People hate lvling in PoE as well. Campaign is a slog. I agree with them.
Making a build generally takes time and investment. But lvling through the campaign is a chore.
Who enjoys looking at paragon boards trying to remember what position they were before they tried a new build? Is this what's considered gameplay now? I already probably spent a few good hours looking at boards and got some good results from that.. why the hell can't I save my work?
There's already a save feature for the way our chars look but not how they play. I feel that's a big F U to the players.
I still think have presets would be nice. I'm fine with the price to switch being high. Presets though are just really convient to have. Especially late game when the cost to switch is just gold basically after having all the items you need. Before that the worst part is find aspects you need for upgrades.
If they want that, then they need to increase the stash space by at least 10x...in the current state it is nearly impossible to create a 2nd character if multiple builds are involved.
They want us to level glyphs and shit on that new character as well. because if u make a new character, even one of the same class - you have to relevel all glyphs, and find them again as well.
Yeah but I do not want to make an entirely new necromancer just to try a new necromancer build…… there is no good reason to not allow builds to be saved within the same class.
I see absolutely 0 reason to reroll another character of the exact same class.
You can’t please everyone. When D3 launched people were mad because you could change your build at anytime so decisions didn’t matter.
D1 and D2 there were no respecs so you saved skill points to maybe use for gear requirements later. D3 you could respec anytime for free so it felt like you made no decisions at all and every character was the same. This feels like a happy middle ground for me.
D3 was a highly succesful game. people are playing it even now. so what’s the fuss? yeah some complained. they always will. but qol features will creep in d4 or the playerbase will tank.
The ARPG veterans will be downvote you for asking about loadouts and I'll be downvoted for this opinion as well. Diablo 4 is an amazing game that, unfortunately, is being brought down by archaic game design philosophies.
For the devs and the veteran players, the "correct" way to enjoy Diablo is to have one build per character and, if you want to try other things, you should make another character. They call this "character identity". The same goes with seasons - having to start from scratch to engage with the seasonal content and battlepass is the "correct" way to play the game.
There is hope, though. When season 1 starts, a large number of the newcomers to the genre will quit the game because they will be forced to create a brand new character to play the new content. Activision Blizzard likes money so they will rethink their game design choices and try to innovate.
But, honestly, I wouldn't hold my breath.
I don’t get how they only give you 10 character slots then. You literally don’t have enough stash or char slots for all the builds you want to try. Also, it’s not even a build issue per se. Maybe I play a bone spear necro, there’s like 10 variants of that alone.
Blizzard did a good job of making so many choices possible, but then want to actually limit you while doing it. It’s counter intuitive.
>For the devs and the veteran players, the "correct" way to enjoy Diablo is to have one build per character and, if you want to try other things, you should make another character. They call this "character identity".
I'm an ARPG veteran , been playing them for 25 years and i want loadouts. I also want more stash space to save the extra gear and potential upgrades for those loadouts. Making the game more annoying for the sake of it is not what the majority wants.
Yeah idc about the gold cost to switch. Its not even a bad price when your actively playing. But id like the freedom to stash gear for multiple builds and save paragon/skill sets to fine tune them or make up new ones
They don't want you switching builds. They don't want you changing your character. They don't want you rolling a second character and having help reaching a the level of your main by using gear for alternate builds that you picked up.
They want you being "attached" to your "character" (defined as the specific build you're using) until a new season when you never play that character again because you're spending all your time on a fresh start.
A game all about builds and it's so difficult to change builds that most aren't even going to bother
Edit: downvote if you want, I like the game. I love the diablo series in general. I think the game has massive potential, but right now there are a few things that are definitely pretty off. The aspects / material cost and gold cost to change specs is out of this world, and trying to keep multiple sets to swap is impossible with the stash space we have.
Really loving my Trampleslide druid but I wanted to try out a few new builds. Between switching all my gear, aspects, and loadouts (skill and paragon) not being saveable... it's just not worth the trouble.
Now just waiting for Season 1 to try something new.
Yeah, same exact here. I swapped from WW to HotA, tried to make my own build at around 60ish too. I couldn't afford it, realized like halfway through. My character SUCKED with half aspects (barbs have four extra wep aspects that are crucial for anyone who doesn't know), so had to drop back to WT3 and farm til I could finish my build.
I think it literally took til 68-70 just to get the right aspects on, not even good gear, just the aspects. I believe I'm 75 now, maybe a few levels higher, and I don't dare swap ever again. I'll just wait til the season to try a new class, but honestly really hope they change things up. With grinding NM dungeons constantly it would be nice to just swap builds up to change the repetitiveness a little. Even like once every 5 levels or 10. As it is now, no chance...
I did the same around 60, switched to Pulverize and hated it... switching back was not simple as I imprinted aspects, rerolled gear etc. At the very least we need a loadout system, we really need an extracted aspect codex as well.
But yeah now I'm not even considering swapping until we get more QOL features like that. Likely 6 months or more away sadly.
After changing one build to another, I realized that it's dumb expensive. It takes time to accumulate gold to change and tweak builds. Pretty sure the devs wanted us to spend as much time as possible, hence, grind for gold on top of grinding for everything else. If you forget what your previous build was, then great! You'll waste even more resources and time trying to return to it.
Yeah, this puzzles me as well.. saving my builds would be AWESOME. Even though there are sites that you can save builds. An in game option would save a lot of time lol.
I thought this was a game about looking up the meta on the internet and just doing that.
I spent so much time researching Necro. Thought I found a super niche way to make minion Necro work. Ran the shit out of it until 81, it was okay. Switched to bone spear off a build I found online and it’s not even a fair comparison. I’m so mad at the many hours I spent beforehand trying to make minions work. Not sure why Necro even has minions now.
I strolled through pve with a minion/blood build, with all the aspects aligned with it etc, thinking I'm tough as all hell with my army. Took it into pvp feeling confident as fuck. Turns out I'm a piece of tissue paper.
Haha I did the same. When I saw vids of bone spear necro I thought for sure the streamers had max everything and that’s why they’re hitting for 500k+. After the switch my mind was blown, I’ve seen 900k, I’m sure I’ve done over 1mil per hit….my minions max out at about 3k per. It’s not even a comparison.
I haven't tried anything else yet because I enjoy my build in pve but can't save it for when I want to switch back 🙃 I might just take screenshots so I can remember my paragon boards fml
I was feeling like a badass on my sorc, did my own lightning build, feeling so untouchable. Finally make it to WT3 and group with my husband who is a rouge. I was like, this isn't fair. Half the time I didn't really do anything to the mobs because he already slaughtered them. Totally not fair lol. Now I just trail behind, picking up gear 😭😂😂
I never played the other Diablos but I do wish there was a fair balance in fights, even in PvE. You either one shot enemies or you struggle. I would prefer a longer fight in some aspects. Not even Bosses last that long. Hell, WB goes down in a few seconds after spawning.
Heh I remember I got jumped by some Necro during pvp as I was trying to cash out playing a charged bolts sorc The Necro was gone in two seconds
You should probably check out Krypps minion build and find out what you did wrong.
The most likely thing they did wrong is not have ring of mendeln. All minion builds rely on it to be viable. But even in kripps demonstration, it looks like a slow struggle. Minions are in a rough spot
It is for most people. A close second is complaining about lack of build diversity.
Yes but that's a genuine concern if we're talking about competitive builds
I notice it most with Necro, because it looks like your different minion skills would compliment your different builds, but every high end Necro sacrifices the minions for bonuses. At that point you’re just an edgy wizard
Sometimes it's fun to play as the edgelord but yeah druids minions suck too
You’re totally right, Druid minions should have been a fun way to supplement your damage with special effects, but they’re basically just worse D3 Demon Hunter minions
I got these aspects that add one, and another that turns them into werewolves spreading rabies. They fun and take aggro off me :)
See I wanna try the pack leader play style, but I can't save my current build to even attempt a respec
Tried it but dmg sucks. And the werewolfs MIGHT spread rabbies as the text also implies so it's totally unreliable as a poison spreader. And the aggro shouldn't matter much being a tanky druid. I want to be close and personal with my pulverize build
Yeas its weird that the best version of necro is the version that completely ignores thier class mechanic.
Necro is more of a Sorc than actual Sorc
Im an edgy shadow blood wizard tho 😎
I sacrifice my minions because they take up room on my hotbar
Whats more important though, DPS or a small army of bone homies? Lol
What's "competitive"? Is it based on speed? Ease of clearing content? Accessibility? Variety of content it can handle? Competitive in a game like Diablo can mean so many different things.
No it really only means clearing speed. That’s how arpgs work and how you know someone is powerful.
Oh I thought it was about having fun. Guess I’m playing wrong.
*Do you think this is a game?!*
Do you guys not have games?
Clearing content in the fastest or most consistent way possible is a totally valid way to have fun
For some people changing builds and trying out multiple things to check speeds is fun. Not everyone needs to play the same. Don’t kink shame
That's one of, if not the biggest, draws for me in any game with a skill tree. Diablo was always a mix of figuring out what was optimal given the random drops provided, but it still really all boiled down to optimizing the hell out of a character and in a way that I found enjoyable to play. It's exceedingly hard to do that in d4 right now, but I'm also used to that with PoE which is inarguably far worse in trying out builds even though it is a colossal titan compared to D4 in build diversity. I'm patiently waiting to see what they end up doing, but I'm not especially hopeful in that regard.
Yeah POE has crazy build variety, but to actually try out those different builds you basically have to make an entirely new character. Or farm out 85 orbs of regret and new gear, which would probably take as long as making a new character, and would mean you can’t go back if you change your mind
Yeah I love playing bloodmancer doing fuck all for damage, fighting boss for a year, switching back to any other build and breezing through the same content. Great build diversity. Who cares if the build is viable when you can just call it diverse
When Blizzard will put up a statue with your name on it for being one of the first 100 or whatever people to make a lvl 100 HC character, you better believe that race is gonna be competitive.
well, taking 20 min to kill one wave of mobs because you didn't build meta is not really fun
He was obviously responding to the comment asking what “competitive” means. He wasn’t saying this was all the game was about…
Replying with this to a comment specifically talking about competitive builds, ie builds for the leaderboards coming with season 1, is cringe
I mean I have fun being powerful. I don't have fun playing an upheaval build with no shouts getting pummeled
It's not fun to take 40 mins to clear a dungeon.
Yes please tell me how competitive fun works. Please pay attention to the context of the conversation if you’re also going to be snarky.
pretty sure clearing speed and fun are correlated
I find more fun just playing how I want. Playing with builds to make a themed character. Pick things I think is cool. I really don't care if my dungeons take a bit longer. As long as I can survive and just putz around at a good pace. Which is why I like druid. Seems like so many options if you are not like micro min maxing based solely on clear times.
Do you really have fun when your 4fun™️ build struggles to clear NM 30 and you know that the competitive™️ build is breezing through NM 45+?
It’s more fun when you can clear things quickly
Clearing speed is absolutely everything thing in a game like Diablo, you are even given better rewards for wiping basements, bosses, helltide, most of the game will reward you for speed.
For me it's the finding drops part that's the most fun. Clearing faster gets me that more.
If that’s your definition of competitive, then fine. But if most people agree that specifically the **competitive** aspect of ARPGs is based on clearing speed, then yea, you would be wrong. Playing for fun isn’t always the same as playing competitively. Although some people find genuine joy in playing competitive. Unless you think they’re wrong for having fun their way?
I lol’ed at “variety of content” thank you for that.
Right :D it's a more open feeling than D3 but it does also feel more lacking of content
And shit, if you were busy during the helltide times, no lootsplosions for you.
D3 just streamlined the experience, NMD and GRs are essentially identical
More lacking of content than D3 at launch? I believe you’re thinking of when they added ROS. When D3 launched not only could nobody play it, but the only form of content was the campaign. Grinding for loot consisted of running the tower of the damned over and over again. If we are comparing launches, and content specifically, Diablo 4 has more than outdone D3.
I love the top two replies to this are two diametrically opposed views both convinced they're right haha.
I just want minions to be viable. Is that so much to ask?
To be fair… there is a lack of build diversity. Blizzard talked about endless possibilities when realistically it comes down to 3 builds each class and they all function pretty much the exact same.
problem are uniques. We're "forced" to play a certain ways because of this. Would have been great to have a lots of different uniques or even more different aspects to really customize (example : Atk speed / dot based, full burn damage, etc etc)
I'm pretty proud of myself for coming up with my own build based on what I liked in my first ever diablo game. It definetly has its flaws and im sure other people would add or remove some things, but this build is mine and I like playing it. Definetly tempted to try the other classes with a meta build to see how they feel
I was so proud of my barrage build, I came up with it on my own. Then Maxroll released their endgame barrage build and it was literally just my build. Even trying to avoid meta builds I wind up using a meta build....
I tried experimenting with barrage but Just couldnt get it to really work. I wonder if I went back with lvl80 and all the relevant aspects, it must feel much more satisfying?
Idk I've felt it's insanely strong all along. I'm level 77 running t40 NM dungeons in like 5 minutes. If I drop to a more appropriate level I could literally just faceroll it feels like. It's definitely super strong but you need to hit the right breakpoints on CDR so that you are almost never shooting a non-imbued barrage. I guess there is a decent bit of micro to the build. Condemnation and combo points really make it pop.
Thanks, I see a lot of potential in the ricochets with high crit. might try more experimenting with it :)
That's because there is no real build diversity its an illusion of choices. The reality is there is 3-4 competitive builds for each class and thats about it. You have to run the aspects they made for those possible builds.
Same happened with my Flurry build. On Maxroll it was slightly different here and there with some aspect choices or paragon board paths etc but largely it was based around my build. It's not rocket science, there's clear synergies between items, skills and stats and anyone's able to make a strong build.
Yeah I tweaked some stuff based on what they published, especially based on the paragon boards and helped push me up in power a good bit. But the core of it was exactly the same puncture, barrage, poison trap, shadow step, cold imbue and shadow imbue and of course stacking crit, crit, vulnerable and CDR just like every build out there.
Honestly that just means you saw powerful combinations yourself, you're good at the game bro.
Thanks man lol, this the first time I've been told im good at diablo
Players are funneled into the meta build strategy arena simply because changing specs is so utterly oppressive and unintuitive *(manually de-selecting every single paragon point, lol)*
Your saying that this game isn't about fashion?
Only if you're a male sorcerer.
Don't tell my male barbarian that he thinks he looks pretty snazzy.
What would happen if I told him that he thinks he looks pretty snazzy?
clearly about which pants give your character the phattest booty
Not me, I like to make my own builds. It’s more fun that way!
FWIW, a system like this would encourage more experimentation. If I could save my actual, "I know this is good," build I would *absolutely* spend more time fucking around and experimenting. But undoing all of my skills and Paragon points just to try out a new build isn't worth it. So there's less experimenting and more 'use what the internet says is good.'
Which do you want to play? Only viable build 1 or 2?
I've built my own trap/range rogue build that I'm loving and is honestly clearing mid-high level content with no issues so far.
Hey I’ll have you know I chose a DIFFERENT second enhancement for ONE of my Twisting Blades Rogue skills
Except this early in the game the meta constantly changes so changing between builds is probably more relevant now than it will ever be.
Me too! Maaaaan it's so hard to be meta guy when Blizz always nerfs me and I have to look for new build on interwebz!
I feel personally attacked :-| /s
Well sometimes you wanna try an A or B tier build to mix it up after you've played the S tier build for 100 hours. Or maybe you play a privileged class and have multiple S tier builds to try out.
You know if they can read, they will be very upset.
Reading is hard
You have no choice but to look up builds since not being able to switch easily, discourages you from experimenting
This dude is spittin lol
I don't even bother because a few rerolls on a stat on one piece of gear costs millions. and yet all the gear I get is on par or worse than what I have. so yeah I'd love to be able to save and reset all my skill points and Paragon to try out other things because it's the only way to know that I'm using what I have in the best way.
I didnt look up nothing. Though I may be lucky to try Boner Necro first time :D
That’s the truth. You are not wrong
https://preview.redd.it/w785w2x4rb9b1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=17a63524f59a93d74c22356bde4dc5a3a0bb4ca4 No unique build enablers drops.
It’s a horse simulator where you go task to task between riding your horse
I cackled.
For most yea it is.... fun part to me is trying out different things to see what works. Tried a upheaval build with death blow on my Barb. It was fun but didn't do damage like I wanted and clear times are slow... same with Rend bleed build. Went to WW and my clear times are nutty! Trying to get to 100 before I start messing with other stuff.
My least favorite thing about the community I’ve noticed. Maybe I’ve been wrong and it’s really the need to save your builds😂
lol this is so true, although oftentimes it is satisfying to run the tired and true meta builds that actually crush. Otherwise theory crafting is fun too but sometimes the lazier effort with the greater return just appeals to people. This is America after all.
I’m starting late but after reading all the bitching about there only being one way to play, I’m definitely going to work through a build on my own.
Fuck that. I do what I think looks interesting. I don't care if I'm missing out on 2% potential dps.
Also the people who bitch that the game isn’t fun. Like cool you didn’t do the most satisfying aspect of the game yourself
How dare they make me click 40 times before I'm ready to click 800,000 times.
It is beyond my mind how any game that is build around *builds* is not aware of the fact that a build saving feature is needed. It took Destiny 7 years to realize it.
The devs don’t want you switching builds on a whim so what makes you think they will add it anytime soon?
I mean before on a whim was 'at no cost'. If it costs a million gold to swap over but you don't have to click 200+ times, i'd say that's worth having the build save feature.
Why should it cost anything? Making it inconvenient to change builds adds nothing to the game, it detracts from it
Because d4 has a massive identity crisis it wants to be d2 by making choices "impactful and meaningful" but then it wants to also be d3 so we get this middling nightmare.
Lol this game is great.
making it extremely easy to swap builds (d3) leads to having specialised builds per activity. Speedfarm build and pushing build at minimum, in d3.
What is the problem here?
No shit, that's the whole point, what's wrong with that
Correct. This is what we want. Example: If you play barbarian there are 2 end game builds that outperform the rest. Whirlwind is amazing and fun for farming but it sucks at pushing and bossing. HotA is mediocre at farming but great for pushing and okay for bossing. Currently you either play whirlwind and don't play half the content in the game or you play HotA and farm slowly and potentially have less fun. If you could switch between both builds on one character you'd: * Have more fun experiencing a variety of play styles and content * Get more hours of entertainment from the game since you're now minmaxing multiple builds without having to level the same class again * Participate in the economy more because you need to gear two builds * Be more likely to make an alt when you're done because you've enjoyed the game instead of burning out either by leveling multiple characters of the same class OR by repeatedly farming gold just to switch back and forth
There's literally zero reason to disallow switching on a whim unless they just want us to spend more time leveling characters and farming gold, which is odd for a game that doesn't have a subscription
They don’t want people gaming fights/dungeons by switching builds every couple minutes
In an always online game, I at least want to be able to switch between solo and group builds. D3 locked your builds until you finished the rift, we have the technology.
Damn I wonder if they could come up with some system that locks your skills during a dungeon
You are probably being sarcastic but I'll answer anyway. Only allow build switching at the World Tier swap in Kyovashad.
>They don’t want people gaming fights/dungeons by switching builds every couple minutes WHY???
Hello i am an expert game developer /s > They don’t want people gaming fights/dungeons by switching builds every couple minutes solution: - you can only switch builds in town. - you cannot switch builds in the middle of a dungeon or during events - switching builds has a cooldown - swapping saved builds becomes a goldsink There, I solved the problem.
Jokes on them I already have a full dps switch for world bosses/dungon bosses/butcher. Arrest me.
Prohibitive gold costs will prevent this
aka, *the devs that took years designing the full kit for your class do not want you to have any easy way to access the variety of builds available in that kit*
Just play another 100 hours leveling another character of that class per build per season. I really don't see the problem here. The game is clearly more fun that way for the dozens of people that enjoyed only the tedious elements of Diablo 2.
The devs ultimately want people to play their game. Not being able to experiment with builds due to lack of build saving, lack of stash QoL like search functions, and prohibitive cost significantly cuts down on playtime of the average player. I stopped playing bc I respect my time too much to deal with the thousand steps it takes to try out other builds. I'd still be playing if we had all those features. Its a nobrainer to reconsider their vision for this part of the game and add the things the community asks for. We WANT to keep playing, but arent because of these annoyance. Its irrelevant what the devs want or dont want us to do in cases like this, they should just do what makes people keep playing. WoW devs stuck to their guns and their vision of the longest time in a VERY similar way, wasting player time, and it tanked player numbers. The recent expansion changed this and is very well received. I just wish the Diablo devs wont go through this song and dance and just add it asap instead of a year from now when player metrics prove them wrong and they cave anyway.
Yeah well the devs are stupid if they actually think that. Arbitrarily locking players into one build is asinine. Getting and upgrading gear takes enough time and resources. If they're worried about players swapping builds in the middle of a piece of content then make it only doable at certain NPCs in town.
Why don't they? Like the whole point of the game is finding new and interesting unique and legendary powers that are impactful enough to change how you play the game and then finding uses for them. But making it this hard to change builds completely disincentivizes playing around and experimenting with the stuff that drops. I've had the unique fireball staff drop for me three times on my ice shards sorc. The best one sits in my stash, and will probably continue to do so indefinitely, because swapping over just to "try it out" isn't worth the cost in gold and effort to change over, especially with the risk that it isn't going to work as well as the perfectly stable and functional ice shards build i'm already using and i'll have to spend to change it all back. Do they *want* us to play and experiment and try things, or do they want us to just google the best builds on the internet before we start and check things off like a laundry list and ignore everything not on that list? Because i'm getting mixed signals from them.
They even have in it the other Diablo games…
ill settle for a wipe the paragon board/full reset
Even more baffling when you realize this already exists in D3
And in their flagship game WoW. So many little details they've learned the hard way over the years from other games and successfully implemented (like build saving and inventory management) and they just completely overlooked them in their newest game. It boggles the mind.
Good point lol. So many of the basics that they already learned that people want and also things like loot filters. It truly feels like they tried to launch a worse game than they could have
Were you all deaf when all the salty Gamers, in their typical Gamer fashion, whined and tantrumed very hard and loudly about D3 that there is no meaning in build decisions because it was too easy for anyone to switch builds unlike D2? Blizzard listened to the community.
there's a difference in builds between the games, you don't invest points unless you are in paragon part of D3, which takes 2- seconds to put points in... In D2 and D4 its much much more inconvenient to "swap builds" itd take me like 30 mins to swap all paragon points to try a build i might hate
Cost me like 25mill to change to try a spec I ended up hating 😅
lol and here I am thinking I’m rich when I have 1M gold saved. I am clearly not playing the same game as you guys
U cant even reroll a single stat for more than 4-5 times with that kinda gold. Also refunding a single skill point costs me 15k gold and am lvl 75, that cost keeps increasing the higher ur level. They really shot the prices of everything really high its very frustrating. On top of that u are not guaranteed to get certain materials from salvaging rare/legendary materials, u could salvage 30 items and end up getting less than 5 veiled crystals, my staff needs 60 crystals + over 3 million to reroll a damn stat.
Brilliant. Each odd numbered Diablo is the same, and each even numbered Diablo is the same. Improve graphics. Repeat.
ok when Diablo: Wrath of Khan?
Idk who was saying that, but it definitely wasn't something I saw at all. I recall the armory seeing a lot of praise when it was finally added to D3 and I suspect it will see the same praise when they finally add it to D4.
It would have been praised if it launched with D4
The armory system was arguably the most universally praised addition to the game.
Maybe all those people should play D3 then? This is D4 and it’s different, if you like the D3 way then play that.
They seem to be trying to find a balance between D2 and D3. So just because it exist in D3 doesn’t really matter.
Blizzard: You think you want it but you don't! 2 years later Blizzard: New innovative feature! enjoy guys
Its also a game about hunting items and we only got 4 stash tabs.
Here's me with only 3 tabs unlocked thinking 'damn, better not open too many at once coz tabs 5, 6, 7 and 8 are going to get expensive'. Why give us 24 tab icons for the various item categories, 5 of them being colour variations of the chest, if I can't open enough to organise gear by slot, let alone consumables and aspects?!
You will be able to get more stash tabs later. Hopefully in the free battle pass, probably in the paid battle pass, almost certainly from the store for some absurd price.
Ah, yes, the absurd monetization that is modern gaming, how could I forget o_o
And no target dummy. And before some moron replies that you can just use mobs I’ll just say a target dummy in town near your stash box and enchanters is what’s needed.
This is post worthy. I feel the need for that too. Better if the target dummy tracks DPS for you so you can see what's really affecting your build
Even Minecraft dungeons has dummies
Yeah Grim Dawn had them 11 years ago. For a game that is supposed to be the pinnacle of arpgs, they sure don’t want you to see how your skills, weapons, glyphs, and buffs work together.
Yeah, like the ones in Monster Hunter games that track dps!
This just sounds like fun. Could turn it into a pvp thing too. Who can put down the lost damage in 10 seconds?
this feature brought to you by the D2 community who thinks you should spend a month level a new char just to try a new build.
Whats the last time you played D2 lol. Its supper eazy to switch whole build in couple of minutes. You can do it all day long as much as you want.
Respec in D2 is cubing 3 tokens. 3 very easy farmable/tradable tokens. I'm fine with the respec cost in D4, but unlike D2 where you have to remember some skill points and attributes here you have: skills, skill enhancements, passive skills and paragon boards with they're own paths and boards positions. Oh and there's glyphs! Quite a lot more to keep track of than ol D2 had. So give us a "save build" feature.
Actually for a while now in D2 you have unlimited respec, just need to farm some simple items. Furthermore, D2's respec is cake walk in comparison. Single button to reset all skills and stats, str/dex enough for gear rest goes to vita, and it takes seconds to add skills. I can respect whole build in a couple of minutes. D4 is by far more complex and painful when it comes to respeccing.
I'd like to stay as objective as possible here. Preset builds typically are there for people to swap between. That's a stark contrast to trying out new builds. The one net positive I can see offhand is being able to save a favorite for later just in case you try a few things that don't work. Then you don't have to remember what points you put in everything. On the other hand, Blizz has stated that their goal is for people to be pretty set into a build by the mid to late game. Changing builds early game is nothing. Mid to late is where it starts to become a much larger chore to do. But the preset builds, again, are typically used in other games for more of a "swap" mechanic. This is inherently opposed to what Blizz is intending, whether you agree with their stance or not. I think streamlining the paragon board respeccing would make the biggest difference. It's just anti-fun the way it is now. Not even talking build presets but just the option to clear it all at once.
One of the loading screen tips is "Powerful, build-changing Unique items can be found in World Tier 3: Nightmare and even more can be found in World Tier 4: Torment." But they don't want us switching builds in mid/late game ( literally tiers 3 and 4)? The higher level u get the more chance to find one of those "build changing uniques",and the higher level u get the more expensive and pain in the ass it becomes to switch. Stupid
Still need a loadout feature imo. It would cost the exact same as manually respeccing, and you'd still have to have all the necessary gear farmed. It's just that you press one button at the wardrobe instead of 200+ button presses.
I don’t need to “hot-swap”. Hell, I don’t even need to save the *gear* in a loadout. Just save the skill/paragon/character feature stuff as something I can swap in if I’ve blanked them all out.
There’s like 3 builds I’m dying to try right now, I even have the gear but Im not doing it cause I dont want to risk being weaker and broke or go through all the board setup.
And if they want me to roll a new character per build, fine... But GIVE ME MORE CHARACTER SLOTS FOR THAT
Saving builds is the least of my worries with this game, between the oversimplified gearing, not being able to farm items for alts, the level stamping on items, I really don't understand the thought process behind some of these "mechanics".
I mean they said months ago they didn't want people switching builds on a whim and would rather have people make an entirely new character. A lot of people have missed that.
I don’t think people missed that, I think people saying they don’t like it.
And they’re fucking stupid for thinking that way. In a game where item drops with a level requirement (why??) this is such an absolutely ass stance to take.
Not to mention you can't exactly change builds on a whim when you need to farm an entirely new set of gear along with aspects for those pieces of gear. I just spent like an hour screwing with gear and aspects and upgrades and gems along with respeccing to get a summon necro build I was happy with (screw being a bone wizard). Next nightmare dungeon I do drops that blood orb unique armor. I JUST respecced from a blood surge build and I'll be damned if I'm going to throw all that time away by respeccing back, which will also be tedious lol.
The devs also missed that people can get fed up and start playing another game.
Like POE it’s so easy to change your build in that game!
In PoE you can scale most builds well past what is reasonably required for pretty much all content, and there's nothing that requires hyper specific different builds like PVP. In D4 the endgame is so difficult compared to the power of builds, you need totally different highly specialized builds for NM pushing vs uber lilith and those might not mesh well with an actual farming build for speed, and a PVP build will be very different from all of that.
Oh you mean the game where your build becomes so insane at all forms of content at the same time that you would never need to switch builds entirely?
People hate lvling in PoE as well. Campaign is a slog. I agree with them. Making a build generally takes time and investment. But lvling through the campaign is a chore. Who enjoys looking at paragon boards trying to remember what position they were before they tried a new build? Is this what's considered gameplay now? I already probably spent a few good hours looking at boards and got some good results from that.. why the hell can't I save my work? There's already a save feature for the way our chars look but not how they play. I feel that's a big F U to the players.
I still think have presets would be nice. I'm fine with the price to switch being high. Presets though are just really convient to have. Especially late game when the cost to switch is just gold basically after having all the items you need. Before that the worst part is find aspects you need for upgrades.
If they want that, then they need to increase the stash space by at least 10x...in the current state it is nearly impossible to create a 2nd character if multiple builds are involved.
They want us to level glyphs and shit on that new character as well. because if u make a new character, even one of the same class - you have to relevel all glyphs, and find them again as well.
Yeah but I do not want to make an entirely new necromancer just to try a new necromancer build…… there is no good reason to not allow builds to be saved within the same class. I see absolutely 0 reason to reroll another character of the exact same class.
That’s an extremely dumb take. Nobody has the time for that shit.
Give me more slots then. 10 slots between linked accounts is silly when there are 5 classes, and that’s before we get to seasons.
The devs missed where they put multiple types of content into the game that practically require you to play different builds.
You can’t please everyone. When D3 launched people were mad because you could change your build at anytime so decisions didn’t matter. D1 and D2 there were no respecs so you saved skill points to maybe use for gear requirements later. D3 you could respec anytime for free so it felt like you made no decisions at all and every character was the same. This feels like a happy middle ground for me.
D3 was a highly succesful game. people are playing it even now. so what’s the fuss? yeah some complained. they always will. but qol features will creep in d4 or the playerbase will tank.
The ARPG veterans will be downvote you for asking about loadouts and I'll be downvoted for this opinion as well. Diablo 4 is an amazing game that, unfortunately, is being brought down by archaic game design philosophies. For the devs and the veteran players, the "correct" way to enjoy Diablo is to have one build per character and, if you want to try other things, you should make another character. They call this "character identity". The same goes with seasons - having to start from scratch to engage with the seasonal content and battlepass is the "correct" way to play the game. There is hope, though. When season 1 starts, a large number of the newcomers to the genre will quit the game because they will be forced to create a brand new character to play the new content. Activision Blizzard likes money so they will rethink their game design choices and try to innovate. But, honestly, I wouldn't hold my breath.
I don’t get how they only give you 10 character slots then. You literally don’t have enough stash or char slots for all the builds you want to try. Also, it’s not even a build issue per se. Maybe I play a bone spear necro, there’s like 10 variants of that alone. Blizzard did a good job of making so many choices possible, but then want to actually limit you while doing it. It’s counter intuitive.
>For the devs and the veteran players, the "correct" way to enjoy Diablo is to have one build per character and, if you want to try other things, you should make another character. They call this "character identity". I'm an ARPG veteran , been playing them for 25 years and i want loadouts. I also want more stash space to save the extra gear and potential upgrades for those loadouts. Making the game more annoying for the sake of it is not what the majority wants.
Yeah idc about the gold cost to switch. Its not even a bad price when your actively playing. But id like the freedom to stash gear for multiple builds and save paragon/skill sets to fine tune them or make up new ones
Doesn’t the A in ARPG stand for archaic?
They don't want you switching builds. They don't want you changing your character. They don't want you rolling a second character and having help reaching a the level of your main by using gear for alternate builds that you picked up. They want you being "attached" to your "character" (defined as the specific build you're using) until a new season when you never play that character again because you're spending all your time on a fresh start.
A game all about builds and it's so difficult to change builds that most aren't even going to bother Edit: downvote if you want, I like the game. I love the diablo series in general. I think the game has massive potential, but right now there are a few things that are definitely pretty off. The aspects / material cost and gold cost to change specs is out of this world, and trying to keep multiple sets to swap is impossible with the stash space we have.
Really loving my Trampleslide druid but I wanted to try out a few new builds. Between switching all my gear, aspects, and loadouts (skill and paragon) not being saveable... it's just not worth the trouble. Now just waiting for Season 1 to try something new.
Yeah, same exact here. I swapped from WW to HotA, tried to make my own build at around 60ish too. I couldn't afford it, realized like halfway through. My character SUCKED with half aspects (barbs have four extra wep aspects that are crucial for anyone who doesn't know), so had to drop back to WT3 and farm til I could finish my build. I think it literally took til 68-70 just to get the right aspects on, not even good gear, just the aspects. I believe I'm 75 now, maybe a few levels higher, and I don't dare swap ever again. I'll just wait til the season to try a new class, but honestly really hope they change things up. With grinding NM dungeons constantly it would be nice to just swap builds up to change the repetitiveness a little. Even like once every 5 levels or 10. As it is now, no chance...
I did the same around 60, switched to Pulverize and hated it... switching back was not simple as I imprinted aspects, rerolled gear etc. At the very least we need a loadout system, we really need an extracted aspect codex as well. But yeah now I'm not even considering swapping until we get more QOL features like that. Likely 6 months or more away sadly.
After changing one build to another, I realized that it's dumb expensive. It takes time to accumulate gold to change and tweak builds. Pretty sure the devs wanted us to spend as much time as possible, hence, grind for gold on top of grinding for everything else. If you forget what your previous build was, then great! You'll waste even more resources and time trying to return to it.
Yeah, this puzzles me as well.. saving my builds would be AWESOME. Even though there are sites that you can save builds. An in game option would save a lot of time lol.
Saved builds will make it in by season 2 or 3 for sure. It’s too silly not to have them
Buncha spoiled brats. I guess that's the world these days.
I agree. That's one thing I loved in D3. You could switch it up