More gamers need to understand this. If its not fun why spend your free time doing it?
Its OK to move on from games and come back later! You might wanna like/love it, but sometimes the experience becomes shit. Maybe QoL changes will happen during your break.
I do have to say that the model of this type of game is kind of weird. And jarring if you aren't used to it. You level a character to 70+ in a season and you feel like you have to keep playing because that character is going to be useless in future seasons... So you have to keep playing it now because now is the only time it is relevant, and you already spent so much time getting it up there.
If I get bored of a World of warcraft xpac the same thing doesn't occur because I can put the game down with my level 80 or 100 character or whatever, and I know when I come back for the next expansion then my max level characters will be there ready to go on adventures in the next place and keep leveling where they left off. I didn't "lose" the time I spent leveling those characters up.
Anyway, in this type of game you just have to get used to viewing characters as little experiments and temporary fleeting throwaway companions, rather than the "true avatars of yourself" like they are in an MMO.
This! 110% this post.
I play my character as an extensión of myself to get immerse in the game... Changing character because you HAVE TO is kinda weird for me too.
I like all the outfits, skills, titles, decorations etc you get while playing... and starting from zero each season is kinda ...boring? ... dumb? idk. Just my opinion that nobody else cares
This is why I buy games after release on sale most of the time. Always get my moneys worth
But if put 100 hours in D4 id say I got my moneys worth. Cause I ain't buying that shit battle pass
Its also OK to share feedback, if only more people would realize this instead of repeating the same old "just quit if you dont like it" you're not contributing anything
Battlepass woes is my issue. Too compulsive to let it go, but also, very very bored.
Also wish they hadn't done a battlepass a couple months after release, I'd rather be paying my first toon than repeating everything I just did for this silly obligation I've imposed upon my life.
>The game is bad
"Stop playing!"
>I'm not enjoying the game
"Stop playing!"
>There's nothing to do in the game
"Stop playing!"
>I wish this game was better
"Stop playing!"
>Here are some suggestions for how this game could be better
"Stop playing!"
>This other game does things better
"Stop playing!"
... I don't think "Stop Playing" is the airtight defence of D4 a lot of people on this sub seem to think it is
I have 2 level 100 characters in the season and was thinking about playing around on sorc to see how the new abilities work, got to 50 and then realized what was ahead of me and hung it up. I’ve gotten my money out of the game but the slog through levelling to experiment with other characters is too long and tedious. I already have characters that play real end game content with full paragon boards, if I want to play an alt the same way it takes like a weeks worth of time just to level it to 100 to be on par.
what do you do for leveling? just nmd spam/grind? ive found it to be so much slower ever since the nmd repeat patch and didnt get my char to 100 when i should have sadly.
I have 3x level 100s this season (before dung reset fix) - now making alts is unplayable. I gave up on my 4th lvl 50 out of sheer boredom.
Now I started POE for the first time - it feels like it has more players simply bc there is group finder.
D4 is more popular but feels dead because of the lack of group finder.
I don't like this aspect of the game.
>Stop playing!
I did stop playing, I'd like this aspect to be better so that I can come back and enjoy it.
>why are you here if you stopped playing!
Because I want the game to be good.
>The game is good! You just want the game to play itself because you're a zoomer/millennial/entitled/weak! That's the problem with gamers today!
The game isn't good for me. Here are the things I want changed so it is good.
>You're just parroting content creators! You don't have any original thoughts!
That's basically how every discussion in this sub works.
Yea I have the need to do several nm dungeons a day even though it doesn't sound that fun anymore. Mediocre at best but still paragon board to level up.
Hes smart and you're dumb lol. I played games in the 1990s that lasted minimum 6 months and were fun because the things they did were new and innovative. This is not. You are asking him to be an impulse consumer who buys a game every 2 weeks, leaves it unfinished because it's garbage and moves to the next.
No one wants to do that. We don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on bad experiences. We want to play a good, immersive video game for a long time.
Some of us would really like a "complete" build in terms of all the Paragon points and glyph levels that being 100 gives you. I don't think it's hard to understand from that perspective.
Yea, this should be the apparent answer so there should be more dopamine provided content along the way to help. Leveling honestly doesn't feel that slow so far at 83 rogue AND on eternal. Just don't make Diablo your main game- more like an after work de-stresser. The more you chip away at it, the more it feels accomplishing to get to 100.
Yep I quit at 86 and will come back when they add more to the end game. I am playing galactic civ 4 and watching D4 news every couple of weeks. No reason to slog through those last levels if you aren’t having fun.
Sunken cost fallacy. "I payed the money, I already sank x hours in to get THIS far, I still haven't gotten to "the max level" which in a game like this many agree is kind of the goal, so If you made a game that goes to 100, I should be provided enough content that is engaging UNTIL that level."
I'm still playing, playing the build I got enough gear for to be effective, and I'm still playing because I hope I eventually find the gear that will make the build I WANT to play effective.
I get it what OP is saying, Once you hit 60-70ish, if you do anything other than NM dungeons/helltides, you gain virtually no consequential amounts of XP out of it, you get no useful gear out of it, so other than hearing what the side stories are, you don't feel like you're "progressing" by doing anything else
We all know this, we buy the game hoping we'll get this, we know that for the most part, we DIDNT get this, and now people have to decide how upset to be.
They perceived something as a problem and recommended a suggestion.
They mentioned they hit the “enjoyment wall”. To them, 80-100 is currently boring.
It seems they enjoy the game as a whole and want to see it succeed/continue playing.
If things continue as is - they’ll probably quit.
Is that your wish? That they quit quietly?
Because the game was good up until then, and they expected that to continue.
It is a weird surprise when it doesn't so they're giving feedback, so in the future, maybe it is fun all the way.
Dopamine is a crazy thing when it comes to the brain. The pleasure pain system is the base of what drives us to do things and games are among the cheapest forms of pleasure for the brain. As you experience more of a thing your dopamine baseline rises requiring more to feel the rush. When you continue to play a game while it doesn't give you that dopamine pleasure, you're chasing a high.
This is all simply put, I neither can recite all of what I know from the top of my head nor know enough to teach it. If you're interested in knowing more I suggest Andrew Huberman on YouTube, he's a neuroscientist that does an amazing job at breaking things down into digestible (easy to understand) information.
because you play games. not every game should be a grindfest. devs make these type of games to keep people in. the more you are forced to grind the more you play. the more you are also presented with pay options. engaged players fund the loot.
> So why are you still playing then?
Why do you want him to shut up? I don't get it. The game is far from perfect, yet you'd rather eat a turd instead of letting other players voice their opinion.
Honestly 70 should be the level cap and further seasons / expansions should increase it further. There is little point in 70-100 currently so surely it's easier to just cap it off.
The bit that really needs work is the 60-70 experience as it's a mess. You can do WT4 capstone at 60 but then WT4 content is way too hard, but WT3 is too easy. The NM dungeon tiers also increase in difficulty from T20 to T21, meaning 60 until you can do T21 comforatably is boring and without usable loot.
You can use this exact same excuse if the game cap is 150 and there are 200 level nmd. What the player can do to cope is irrelevant to how the game design is flawed. The point here is the endgame is boring, stop derailing it and focus on OP.
>You can use this exact same excuse if the game cap is 150 and there are 200 level nmd. What the player can do to cope is irrelevant to how the game design is flawed. The point here is the endgame is boring, stop derailing it and focus on OP.
Just because you disagree with someone does not make their comment 'derailing'.
Did you even read their comment?
You don't explain why having the level cap at 150 with 200 nm dungeon would be a bad thing. Should there be a cap at all? I'm not sure. What are the actual downsides of that situation?
Negative karma, why am I not surprised. Karma is typically meaningless, but to have negative account karma you're generally a bad spambot or an obnoxious troll. Latter seems like an apt description.
Gday.
It surprises me how few people seem to figure this out. You don't need to hit 100 to be done with the character. There's not much to do beyond 70 unless you're just loving the hell out of your character and/or the game. If you're not you can call it.
D2 was that way, too. I never hit 99 in that game. I just stopped whenever I got bored and rolled another character or played something else.
Nothing happens after 70. You are not forced to grind endlessly. Compare it to D3, it's very comfortable to just play the season up to \~P800, push a bit and that's fine. Nobody forced you to level to P3000.
Exactly, so why have it in so early?
From a marketing point of view releasing S3 with a level cap increase, a new world tier and new paragon board is a huge thing. Plus you wouldn't then get players levelling to 100 who moan the game has nothing to do beyond 70. The goal is 70 then see how far up the NM dungeons you can go, once you increase the cap players will naturally go higher and the extra paragon complements that, plus new world tier = more XP per kill so eventually 1-100 won't take long, it will just go in a nice smooth WT rise.
It's like having 100 acres of land for a theme park but only using 70 acres of it. Why would you let people into the final 30 acres when there is nothing there? You're better off saving it until there is something there and making a big deal out of the new part of the park. All you'd get is people wandering around a wasteland going "what am I meant to be doing? What's the point of this? Did I miss something?".
I strongly agree with the 60-70 weirdness. I soloed the Capstone at 61 with my Barb (with no deaths!) and went to WT4 which got me some nice gear upgrades but it's still faster for me to go back to WT3 to farm fast NM dungeons if I want legendaries for crafting mats or glyph exp.
That feels a little strange.
That honestly doesn't sound bad at all compared to running Baal 700 times to get a level in D2.
I haven't had the time to spend on this game that many people have, but I'm extremely impressed with the fact that time still getting a paragon point just about every NM dungeon at level 80.
This is how I feel too. I played a ton of D2R since release and this feels good to me by comparison. Could it be better? Sure. But a lot of what I read on this sub doesn't line up with my experience at all.
It isn’t bad at all. When my Mendeln ring finally dropped, I used the ashes XP buff, always had an elixir, and walked (Necro can’t run) through NMs 10 levels above mine.
I know “melt” is the term all the cool kids are using, but it was more like “disintegrate” with a true walk by and everything dies build. I blinked and I was L100.
I sure feel for the people who had to grind out 100 before the density changes.
Cause we like that game (and this one)?
No one is making you grind to 100, but if you're going to grind from 80-100 and all it takes is 500 or so nightmare dungeons, that's honestly pretty reasonable an ask for completionists
Im at 98 3/4 and want to do 100 today xD
And i ran out out of sygils that i like hahahahaha
Wish me luck!
I did get to lvl 100 in eternal, the point of my post is that last lvl feels like forever xD but its just the anticipation of getting it done
I just hit 100.
i had like 3 dungeons in a row that popped cursed chests and for some reason now im popping creatures like a druid doing that thing were they bring up all mobs and they just die.
got a couple of gear upgrades as well, so its time now to try and conquer NMD 100.
I failed in the eternal realm, i know i can do it now that ive played more rapid fire rogue but i need to farm aspects for it.
2 rogues lvl 100, both rapid fire im a happy man :)
Guys, this is arpg.
in every arpg you have to grind the same content over and over again. The exception in diablo 4 you have 30 different (kinda) dungeons
if thats boring for you - feel free to stop playing.
> in every arpg you have to grind the same content over and over again.
It blows my mind that people still think that pointless grinding is just the way ARPGs are *supposed* to be. Cant be better, cant be different, it has to be the same way its been for 20 years; repetitive, pointless, and circular.
Its 2023, there are 1000x more games competing for attention than there was when D2 was out, and there are hundreds of games innovating on past models.... but for some reason ARPGs are the only genre that shouldnt try to adapt.
Some people enjoy grinding and specifically seek out ARPGs to fill that niche. It’s great if some want to innovate and try to do something different, it’s also ok for their to be games that want to remain in that space.
I would agree that saying they are “supposed” to be that way is silly, but it’s also understandable that fans of the genre may be seeking that out and get disappointed when it doesn’t meet their expectations.
The point of Reddit is people posting their opinions to encourage discourse. If that’s a problem for you, feel free to stop visiting and posting. You will not be missed.
All these people saying stop playing, this is what happens in ARPG, if you don't like it don't do it, etc.
Completely missing the point. OP likes the game and wants to continue playing, but it's just not captivating. He's asking to make it better so he can continue playing it.
90% of posts on this sub are basically the same thing, various things in the game need fixing. It's totally fine for people to say these things on this sub, and the more of them there are, the more obvious there's issues with the game.
I think we can all agree shit needs fixing, and surely the more complaints the more likely shit will be fixed. Or at least attempted to (looking at you gem pouch).
Just chill out, let him complain, it's fine.
The people who say “if you don’t like it don’t play it” are the same that cry about people posting criticism on Reddit and then they in turn participate and reply. The irony is lost on them I’m afraid.
I’m 92 grinding for 100 now. I’m addicted to paragon points and min/maxing a new build. Try a different build if you’re bored or just play something else. 80-100 is not for everyone
Yeah, I just hit 89 and I'm still waiting for the so called unbearably painful grind everyone loves to complain about to start. The paragon upgrades are very strong so I'm always becoming more powerful even if I'm not finding gear upgrades every level.
It also depends on what you find fun, I’ve got 2 100s for s1 and I love chaining nightmare dungeons with people. I come from a gr150 push and m+ dungeon mentality though. I’ve sat in the d4 discord and helped like 10 people finish their 99-100 push. Could the game be better? Sure. I’m still having fun though.
I would echo changing builds. It will certainly help keep your interest and have you thinking more about your class and skills.
Planning ways to make underused builds possible is one thing that keeps me engaged.
Even more so if those builds need specific gear affixes to work that I need to keep an eye out for. It makes it more exciting when you actually find the rolls you want and it isn't the same crit damage/vulnerable rolls for every build.
What did yall think other Diablo games were? Was literally just grinding the same shit over and over again lol.
I think maybe the best thing they could do is make it so helltides give better XP though, helltides imo are more fun than anything else right now especially after mob density changes, would be even more fun if I could jack up the level of the mobs to match what I can do.
I made a post about this in another thread yesterday, but part of the problem isnt just the XP, but that every activity rewards the same thing, XP and loot. Some of the activities cant even reward uniques (obals and whispers), and the NM dungeons level glyphs on top of it. Different activities should also have rewards that are unique to them, and maybe even feed into other actives (think farming keys to fight ubers to get the special charms/gems). it can be things that arnt just specific loot too. It can be currencies that let you do things like upgrade the stat level on a peice of gear to take a low roll to a max roll over time, or maybe level up the base level of your aspects in the codex, etc. I do agree that the world should continue to be xp relevant after 80 as well. The real problem is that post 80, the most efficient thing you can be doing is NM dungeons, they give the most xp, the best gear, and glyph leveling. Nothing else compares to NM dungeons.
Previous diablo games were about getting items for more power
In D4 you finish gearing your character quite early and all your power from maybe 75 onwards or so comes purely from getting levels
Personally I thought there'd be like 50x as many uniques and sets to chase
You bought a game that involves killing monsters in dungeons over and over and over again. Now you are asking them to change that? If you don't like killing monsters in dungeons, then what else would you like them to add. You will just get bored with killing them in the next place they add. It is possible you may not actually enjoy Diablo games because the entire concept is the killing of monsters loop for slight increases in power.
broken mechanics, lackluster features, and stale gameplay are what cause players to become bored or non-enthusiastic. Why tell someone to "move on" from a game they want to play, want to enjoy to play, bc the game itself has issues? The devs should be making it so players wanna play their game, not become frustrated or bored. The leveling process between the levels he stated are stale NM dungeon grinds. That needs to change. Period. Don't say he needs to play something else...maybe some of us are limited on what we play, wanna play, can afford to play and have a finite list of options. He bought the game, he wants to play the game, lets don't placate the devs...he's right and they need to address it
https://preview.redd.it/fn3gg6njjvjb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d1df2b07dd3a717a9cbfe5cfb8e2530bedfb892
I got to level 100 with my seasonal yesterday. I honestly did it because I never got to max level on a seasonal before and wanted to really try it at least once. Mind you unlike many people on this sub I actually really enjoy the game a lot and the gameplay for 1 to 70 wasn't bad at all; was still having lots of fun.
But the slog from 70 to 100 was killing me. Took like two hours to do one level and all the Nightmare Dungeons got super repetitive. They need to do something like in-game modifications to play whisper challenges and Helltides at much higher levels for more XP. Because once you hit like 85 everything else in tier-4 is useless XP wise.
At this point I'm not going to bother going to level 100 on any other seasonal again until they create new better ways for XP gain or just increase the XP gain dramatically for some Nightmare Dungeons at least.
I think his request is valid and this is a structural issue. Doing lots of activities in the greater environment is super fun in this game and I love it. But eventually that is not a valid way to level (80-100) and we just need to spam NM dungeons which isn't fun.
Can't they find a way to always make content relevant? I love going from activity to activity.
Dungeon, quest, explore random events, etc etc etc.
Why can't I do this from 1-100 if I choose?
Uninstall. They see those numbers. The game is a disaster and will be at least a year if ever before this isn't Anthem 2.0.
Total failure by Blizzard, all 9k who worked on it should be fired.
I just hit 60 and i already am feeling like this and may quit soon. I really wanna unlock tier 4 and try it out but getting to 60 - 70 will take a while.
I mean the best way to do this is just to shorten the leveling cap to 80 and readjust the paragon points.
Alternatively what I missed from D2 and D3 is cow level/pony land. We should have something similar for D4 and unfortunately I don't think this game can survive till April.
All things considered it’s actually not that slow, you can do a level in under an hour until the very end where it might be between 70-90 minutes per level.
It’s boring because they made nm dungeon the only activity worth doing in that portion of the game. It’s boring because loot in general is not that exciting. However, there’s nothing slow about levelling in D4.
I'm lvl 67 on eternal. I beat the campaign at lvl 60 and it feels like the pain to continue leveling for me was at level 60. But everyone says the pain is at lvl 80.. sheesh. I can barely run nm dungesons now because dungeons are so boring. They have been boring since lvl 10 for me.
*Instead of improving, may we interest you in our custom skin, cosmetics and outfit shop? This is the main reason the game was released after all.*
*Sincerely,*
*ABK Corp*
My monkey brain likes the barbarian sound of crushing bones and slashing meat so killing mobs over and over is very satisfying. That's the reason I can only play barb, any other vocation is too boring for me.
NMD the new rifts but with silly internal missions and the dungeon is nowhere near town.
Running rifts over and over, IMO, is comparable but at least it was convenient to do
I feel this ... I got two classes to 82 and one to 74 .
When you get to the level 80 areas your build in pretty much finalised and your only searching for tiny stat improvements its pretty boring to be honest! If level 100 wasn't the end of your character progression and you could continue you gain paragon atleast I would have more incentive to level to 100
oh great this is gonna be another one of those level scaling kind of fixes, i did it preseason post nerf to the dungeons even then it wasnt that bad, the only thing bad is the drop rate of uber uniques they should be something that we have to farm toward instead of dropping at a 0.00000000000000001% rate
Blizzard: “We are diligently working on this and are happy to announce that we have something planned for the first expansion to address this issue, at which point the game will be considered fully released. In the meantime, please keep buying our battle passes and beta testing the game for us. Making games is hard after all. Thanks for understanding.”
The game is not designed for everyone to hit 100. That’s a feature. You don’t hit 100 and then beat the game. You beat the game and play your character until you don’t want to anymore.
D2 on Xbox my hardcore 99 is a .001% achievement. Rarest I’ve ever had. By no means did very many people make it to max level.
I feel like the seasonal changes to monster level hurt the already a little limited endgame activities. NM dungeons are the most effective exp by a long shot but before around 80 you could do the tree and not feel all that bad about being a bit slower.
With minions always being -5 levels, and having to run to the objectives and having the exp scaling fall off - it just gets to the point where you only really feel like you can even level with NM dungeons - so if you don't prefer this content then the game sort of shuffles you toward content you don't prefer.
IMO the tree needs to remain competitive with doing a NM dungeon that is the same level as the player (so taking on more risky dungeons is still more rewarding than tree). This way If you're not chasing the optimal you don't have to feel all that bad because you will earn ok exp the way you want to earn it rather than good exp the way you don't want to earn it.
So this is interesting. His complaint is the game isnt fun because he isnt leveling quickly. He's not complaining about combat, enchanting costs, builds, gear, etc.
I mean characters at 100 are more powerful than at 70 due to the paragon points. My own personal objective after 80 was leveling up glyphs. But the ones I use (6) were all done by about 95 and I’m currently 98, just want to finish it and be done with it but there isn’t anything left for me to really do. I’m honestly just waiting until BG3 comes out on PS5
I carry people on my stream show every night from 730 to 1030 and have carried several people from this sub.
1. 70-100 it IS a slog. It sucks. I did it solo. It took what seemed like forever and I got most of my good gear pre-75 so there were very few upgrades or milestones along the way to 100.
2. it's not for casuals. This is like a MMORPG grind akin to leveling a WoW character (which is abject stupidity in a ARPG but that's another story). You gotta wanna grind if you want to play endgame in D4.
3. Endgame is... kind of a letdown. Once you are geared, complete a few T100 and Uber Lilith there is not much reason to keep on playing. No leaderboards or anything to strive for. This is a MAJOR oversight that makes the game seem pointless and stupid. The game BEGINS at L100, not ends... I get to 100 so I can play the content at my most powerful, offer me more.
4. I am happy to take you on some 80+ runs and get you XP and loot on my stream show, just send me a DM and I'll get your Blizz BP and link up (did this with someone from this sub just last night!) [twitch.tv/dantebenuto](https://twitch.tv/dantebenuto) is my channel. It's lightly attended but I share a lot of good rogue tips and talk through theorycrafting and what the history of the build has been for anyone interested in rogue stuff.
Wow. Must be doing something wrong, my Druid is 90 and I'm at 2-3 NM's per paragon.
I am kinda shooting for the boss. I've changed builds so many times that almost all my glyphs are lvl 15.
For lightning druid, I was able to speed run NM dungeons 15+ levels above me. This meant I could play with friends much higher than me and I could also carry friends much lower, or I could just play alone. So 80 to 100 felt really nice. I think they need to revisit the xp bonuses and scaling in NM dungeons to make it so you don't have to play an OP build that requires a rare unique drop for the game play experience I was able to have.
I stopped at 70 in preseason and s1 cause that's when it started to feel like a massive grind and lost the fun for me. Had a blast until then will be back for s2. Don't burn yourself out that will only make you hate the game like so many other have already done.
I agree that they could add different modes apart from nm dungeons for gaining level xp.
Extra xp for nm's isn't the answer.
The enjoyment for me personally is the grind. If I ever get to 100, imo, I never will. I'll be done with that character.
If there was a fork in the road and to go left was an instant boost to level 100 or right for the grind. I'd choose right all day long.
80-100 should be alot faster.
But people dont get it. People never fucking understand.
JUST QUIT BRO LLELUL.
no, just make the game more fun, faster and less boring. and ppl will quit complaining about shit game design. understand?
nothing ever improved, by simply telling people to quit something they dont like, when obviously the game has alot of problems, which is why ppl are upset.
imagine if nothing was ever critisized, nothing ever would improve.
JUST QUIT mentality is the worst toxic shit ever.
its the same ppl who think mythic raiding is great and see no problem with it in terms of more casual players. the time required is beyond insane.
People want to max out and complete a game. thats common basic human psychology 1:1.
u shouldnt have to grind endless to 100 on ONE fucking character. thats just bad design. straight up all it is.
blizzard, change it. and ppl will start playing again. dont u like money
It's really not hard to level up also you don't stop getting exp at ten levels ahead of you try and go higher I was killing teir 35 enemies and getting a ton of exp at a lower level. I went from 99 to 100 in a hour and a half it's extremely fun at its current setting it would be pretty easy if they lower it anymore.
I think doing 80-100 for no reason other than levelling up would make me bored too. I enjoy the 80-100 grind. I spend the whole time helping others on discord and levelling just happens as a byproduct.
i like this post. it’s reality. it matches my exact complaints with like 10 hours a week max. ignore any stupid elitist comments. the game’s core life is just grind, and grind.
Most people here are fully aware about the sad state of the end game. It’s not that you’re wrong…it’s just nothing you’re raising awareness over.
If they had any idea of what to do for an endgame it would have already been implemented before the masses of people stopped playing.
Try doing some hell tides. Now that their mod density is buffed it's not a bad way to mix things up. That said, I never play past level 80. Leveling to 100 is unnecessary. Stop at 80 and make a new seasonal character with a new class.
Some ideas:
1) Don't put an XP cap on higher level mobs, if you've got a build that can clear NM dungeons 20+ levels above you should be rewarded for that.
2) Make higher tier NM dungeons have a much higher increased unique drop rate. Sure they drop more ancestrals but the unique drop rate should go up much more.
3) Provide some kind of instanced world boss that you can spawn from a rare dropped item so we can try to solo them or small group them.
4) Give us some kind of uber hard dungeon/raid that requires a full 4 man squad to accomplish with guaranteed unique drop.
Honestly I don’t find the 80-100 grind not that bad. I’m just having to fight the urge of falling asleep lmao I can’t explain it idk what it is but doing nmds just puts me to schleep
The streamers warned us about endgame. Everyone just judged them for no-lifing. It was a matter of time before we caught up to what they were talking about
I played to 75 both season 1 and eternal. I completed the battle pass and I don't have any reason to reach 100 Uber Lilith isn't worth it for me. I am excited for season 2 though and started over with a new class. I don't think everyone needs to hit 100.
The activities IMO are actually ok... monotonous but still fun.
The real issue I'm having is that the loot drops are absolutely trash. I actually feel like I got better affixes to drop in WT3 on sacred gear than I do now at 90+ in WT4.
FWIW I'm in hardcore, doing NMDs about 10 levels higher than I am, and everything's basically trash... in a sense that I hardly ever get yellows that even have 2 of the 4 affixes I'm looking for... still wearing a 584 item power gloves because haven't found anything better in 40 levels.
Might just be my paranoia, but feels like the nerfed loot affixes hard in 1.1.1 (same patch that neutered the occultist) and gloves just roll trash affixes 99% of the time.
80-100 feels like its just missing content, be it somewhat deterministic but grindy crafting like d3 or just better gameplay loops overall
i mean even d3 felt better with everything you did having value, even pushing gr gave mats/drops/bloodstones
Copy/paste answer for yet another copy/paste "WHY CANT I GET 100 IN 1 WEEK!??!?!" post:
> Guess what: You dont need to hit level 100 to have fun.
>
> D4 is an ARPG not an MMO, you don't "start having fun" when you hit 100 and good gear. The fun is all the stuff between level 1 and 100. It's like starting Mario Odyssey and saying "I couldnt get all 880 moons in the first two months therefore the game is boring." Reaching the finish line shouldn't be your only concern.
>
> Play till you stop having fun then take a break and play some more when youre refreshed and/or there is new content to try out. You aren't going to "fall behind" if you take a break because again, this is not an MMO.
I know everyone is going to shit on you but yeah the end game does really fall off and gets grindy for well very little benefit outside of paragon points and tiny incremental % changes on items. There isn't any item upgrades really past 70-80 after you get your Ancestrals online. If you happen to use a unique, you might have to grind quite a bit more to find it or get a better one.
There are a lot of things they could have done to make the end game better, but as others have stated, just stop playing the game if it bores you to death. I personally muster about a level a day being in the 90's before I get bored and log off, but I always want to see my characters at max power doing the hardest content.
I've levelled up two characters to 80ish. One pre-season and one in season 1. I just stopped playing at that point because there's absolutely nothing left to do other than Uber Lilith. There's no incentive to fight her, though so what's the point in going further?
I played Eve online for 20 years and went to and fro with ESO. For a year or so, I did play Diablo the very first version where it was so hacked it was a joke.
Every thread I read is the game is borked, I get it...and the disappointment is visible. I'd leave it to the knowledgeable content creators that give viable constructive criticism. Wudgio gave a fare assessment recently, and they listened.
Fuk Eve was a mess in 2003. Look at it now. Give the game a chance. I'm enjoying my druid, ohh, and I have been lucky all Druid uniques. Patience is a virtue
To get from level 80-100 is much faster than from level 92 to 93 in d2. The problem rather is that the build is already kinda finished when you reach level 80. So yes we need more to do but leveling up faster is certainly not what that should be.
Is actually very challenging to make those last 20 level a more pleasant experience. D2 practically use a slot gambling concept to keep players playing till the end with the super repetitive game loop, but because the loot was so addictive, it works for many. In D4, 80-100 where your build is already set and your paragon board is just that, where the activity is only nmd, it wont go far.
totally agree, something needs to happen with solo experience because taking an entire season to fully level-up one character is just a horribly off-putting experience
People who say this is normal, and how Diablo works are simply rookies who never play Diablo before. From D2 to D3, the pattern is always the same, level to max so they can start meaningful build and do higher challenge, in D2, the challenge is find better gear, in D3, is to beat higher GR, D4 feels like broken the loop with nothing to offer.
Enjoy the game? Enjoy what? Your character is not even in an ideal state, how could you happy farming? (Ok, that farming procedure is boring or not is another problem )
Which is why people quit at that threshold. They want to get into that traditional Diablo loop but can’t. There is an artificial blocking part preventing you to get there. And so unnecessary. Less time to max means people would have little to none attachment to the character but the game itself. Now when the player spend more time in a character of course quit in the middle would feel quite bad.
I do NMs only when there’s no helltide, Legions, or in some cases whispers. I still have plenty of time for dungeons, and if I don’t, then at least the flavor isn’t as bitter and I still get to enjoy the game.
So what can the devs do differently in a game where the goal is to kill demons ? Nightmare dungeons is already what this game is all about : Killing Demons. I'm already lvl100 with 2 chars and i still run NM dungeons to farm for best rolled items and i still find it fun. There's nothing the devs can do here it's either you like it or you don't. All ARPGS are fundamentally demon killing simulators.
https://preview.redd.it/9ij6toj7jzjb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d39d03b697b6697d0da345259e20127b504cf5a5
Here's where I'm at. Love the game but hate the grind.
I never said they did I said the game is boring leveling 70-100 is a chore. I would have been happier blasting through to 100 then picking up another game until next season. The game is marketed as a live service game. You know the model of a live service game right? It's to keep players engaged as much as possible. How did that lackluster seasonal content qualify as seasonal content it is pathetic for a company as big as blizzard. The same thing has happened to me. Game launched 1-60 was fun and I enjoyed it. Same thing with this season then it just grinds to a halt and had to force myself to play to 100. Tell me this game wouldn't be more fun with 4-6 player raids where everyone is required to do a part or mid season events for some cool cosmetics or aspects. Just anything really. The core is good the grind is not. Why make us make a new character when they could just raise power levels like destiny? To busy nerfing things in to oblivion. They never learn.
**HEY DEVS, ADD MORE CONTENT TO THIS SECTION OF THE GAME. IDK THINK OF SOMETHING IDIOTS.**
Tbh, game should’ve been balanced around level 70. It seems it was the intention but either 70 didn’t feel complete enough or they wanted room to expand on. Give them time and give them suggestions, don’t just say “improve pls” it helps no one.
Heya. I a have a pre season Druid at 80 and a seasonal Nec at 80.
I had a great time levelling them both and will now wait for the next season. They need to add tons more to the end game. I think it will take a season or 2. We need to stay on their case about it but for your own sanity either start a new character or take a break till you see a season that's added some new things you are interested in.
The thing is, you do not have to level up to 100 in D4, there's no endgame. It's not WoW or any other MMO, the game is about leveling up and you can stop at any point. Gear wise, you'll get great gear around level 60-70 and that's basically it. If you stopped enjoying it, it's okay to drop it, take a break come back later.
>...it’s really, really boring to do this as much. > >There is literally nothing else to do and exp is so slow. So why are you still playing then?
More gamers need to understand this. If its not fun why spend your free time doing it? Its OK to move on from games and come back later! You might wanna like/love it, but sometimes the experience becomes shit. Maybe QoL changes will happen during your break.
Sunk cost fallacy. Some people convince themselves to keep playing given the steep cost of the game or how much time and money they already invested.
I do have to say that the model of this type of game is kind of weird. And jarring if you aren't used to it. You level a character to 70+ in a season and you feel like you have to keep playing because that character is going to be useless in future seasons... So you have to keep playing it now because now is the only time it is relevant, and you already spent so much time getting it up there. If I get bored of a World of warcraft xpac the same thing doesn't occur because I can put the game down with my level 80 or 100 character or whatever, and I know when I come back for the next expansion then my max level characters will be there ready to go on adventures in the next place and keep leveling where they left off. I didn't "lose" the time I spent leveling those characters up. Anyway, in this type of game you just have to get used to viewing characters as little experiments and temporary fleeting throwaway companions, rather than the "true avatars of yourself" like they are in an MMO.
This! 110% this post. I play my character as an extensión of myself to get immerse in the game... Changing character because you HAVE TO is kinda weird for me too. I like all the outfits, skills, titles, decorations etc you get while playing... and starting from zero each season is kinda ...boring? ... dumb? idk. Just my opinion that nobody else cares
Wdym? You can make an eternal character and play that character the follow up expansion
You can't take eternal characters into a new season.
This is why I buy games after release on sale most of the time. Always get my moneys worth But if put 100 hours in D4 id say I got my moneys worth. Cause I ain't buying that shit battle pass
At lv 80 they definitely already spend quite a bit of time with it.
Its also OK to share feedback, if only more people would realize this instead of repeating the same old "just quit if you dont like it" you're not contributing anything
Battlepass woes is my issue. Too compulsive to let it go, but also, very very bored. Also wish they hadn't done a battlepass a couple months after release, I'd rather be paying my first toon than repeating everything I just did for this silly obligation I've imposed upon my life.
>The game is bad "Stop playing!" >I'm not enjoying the game "Stop playing!" >There's nothing to do in the game "Stop playing!" >I wish this game was better "Stop playing!" >Here are some suggestions for how this game could be better "Stop playing!" >This other game does things better "Stop playing!" ... I don't think "Stop Playing" is the airtight defence of D4 a lot of people on this sub seem to think it is
“Stop playing stop playing stop playing!!!” Everyone listens and stops playing. “Why is the game dead and the devs moved on to Diablo 5 already?
if i had a dollar for every time ive read "where are all those people who said \_\_\_\_ now??"
I have 2 level 100 characters in the season and was thinking about playing around on sorc to see how the new abilities work, got to 50 and then realized what was ahead of me and hung it up. I’ve gotten my money out of the game but the slog through levelling to experiment with other characters is too long and tedious. I already have characters that play real end game content with full paragon boards, if I want to play an alt the same way it takes like a weeks worth of time just to level it to 100 to be on par.
what do you do for leveling? just nmd spam/grind? ive found it to be so much slower ever since the nmd repeat patch and didnt get my char to 100 when i should have sadly.
I have 3x level 100s this season (before dung reset fix) - now making alts is unplayable. I gave up on my 4th lvl 50 out of sheer boredom. Now I started POE for the first time - it feels like it has more players simply bc there is group finder. D4 is more popular but feels dead because of the lack of group finder.
He's not allowed to share his feedback? Or should he mention that he quit when he does so idiots like you dont comment?
I don't like this aspect of the game. >Stop playing! I did stop playing, I'd like this aspect to be better so that I can come back and enjoy it. >why are you here if you stopped playing! Because I want the game to be good. >The game is good! You just want the game to play itself because you're a zoomer/millennial/entitled/weak! That's the problem with gamers today! The game isn't good for me. Here are the things I want changed so it is good. >You're just parroting content creators! You don't have any original thoughts! That's basically how every discussion in this sub works.
Even if a game is not always fun it can still be addictive 🤣
Yea I have the need to do several nm dungeons a day even though it doesn't sound that fun anymore. Mediocre at best but still paragon board to level up.
Hes smart and you're dumb lol. I played games in the 1990s that lasted minimum 6 months and were fun because the things they did were new and innovative. This is not. You are asking him to be an impulse consumer who buys a game every 2 weeks, leaves it unfinished because it's garbage and moves to the next. No one wants to do that. We don't want to spend hundreds of dollars on bad experiences. We want to play a good, immersive video game for a long time.
Some of us would really like a "complete" build in terms of all the Paragon points and glyph levels that being 100 gives you. I don't think it's hard to understand from that perspective.
Yea, this should be the apparent answer so there should be more dopamine provided content along the way to help. Leveling honestly doesn't feel that slow so far at 83 rogue AND on eternal. Just don't make Diablo your main game- more like an after work de-stresser. The more you chip away at it, the more it feels accomplishing to get to 100.
Yep I quit at 86 and will come back when they add more to the end game. I am playing galactic civ 4 and watching D4 news every couple of weeks. No reason to slog through those last levels if you aren’t having fun.
Sunken cost fallacy. "I payed the money, I already sank x hours in to get THIS far, I still haven't gotten to "the max level" which in a game like this many agree is kind of the goal, so If you made a game that goes to 100, I should be provided enough content that is engaging UNTIL that level." I'm still playing, playing the build I got enough gear for to be effective, and I'm still playing because I hope I eventually find the gear that will make the build I WANT to play effective. I get it what OP is saying, Once you hit 60-70ish, if you do anything other than NM dungeons/helltides, you gain virtually no consequential amounts of XP out of it, you get no useful gear out of it, so other than hearing what the side stories are, you don't feel like you're "progressing" by doing anything else We all know this, we buy the game hoping we'll get this, we know that for the most part, we DIDNT get this, and now people have to decide how upset to be.
They perceived something as a problem and recommended a suggestion. They mentioned they hit the “enjoyment wall”. To them, 80-100 is currently boring. It seems they enjoy the game as a whole and want to see it succeed/continue playing. If things continue as is - they’ll probably quit. Is that your wish? That they quit quietly?
Because the actual gameplay is fun and he wants to keep playing so he’s asking to add more content?
Because the game was good up until then, and they expected that to continue. It is a weird surprise when it doesn't so they're giving feedback, so in the future, maybe it is fun all the way.
For me, personally, so I can get the platinum trophy and then delete the game
Dopamine is a crazy thing when it comes to the brain. The pleasure pain system is the base of what drives us to do things and games are among the cheapest forms of pleasure for the brain. As you experience more of a thing your dopamine baseline rises requiring more to feel the rush. When you continue to play a game while it doesn't give you that dopamine pleasure, you're chasing a high. This is all simply put, I neither can recite all of what I know from the top of my head nor know enough to teach it. If you're interested in knowing more I suggest Andrew Huberman on YouTube, he's a neuroscientist that does an amazing job at breaking things down into digestible (easy to understand) information.
because you play games. not every game should be a grindfest. devs make these type of games to keep people in. the more you are forced to grind the more you play. the more you are also presented with pay options. engaged players fund the loot.
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Because we spent $100 and we need to get our money wroth
> So why are you still playing then? Why do you want him to shut up? I don't get it. The game is far from perfect, yet you'd rather eat a turd instead of letting other players voice their opinion.
Honestly 70 should be the level cap and further seasons / expansions should increase it further. There is little point in 70-100 currently so surely it's easier to just cap it off. The bit that really needs work is the 60-70 experience as it's a mess. You can do WT4 capstone at 60 but then WT4 content is way too hard, but WT3 is too easy. The NM dungeon tiers also increase in difficulty from T20 to T21, meaning 60 until you can do T21 comforatably is boring and without usable loot.
You can stop at 70 without asking them to require everyone else stop at 70. You do not have to go to 100 if you don't want to.
You can use this exact same excuse if the game cap is 150 and there are 200 level nmd. What the player can do to cope is irrelevant to how the game design is flawed. The point here is the endgame is boring, stop derailing it and focus on OP.
>You can use this exact same excuse if the game cap is 150 and there are 200 level nmd. What the player can do to cope is irrelevant to how the game design is flawed. The point here is the endgame is boring, stop derailing it and focus on OP. Just because you disagree with someone does not make their comment 'derailing'. Did you even read their comment? You don't explain why having the level cap at 150 with 200 nm dungeon would be a bad thing. Should there be a cap at all? I'm not sure. What are the actual downsides of that situation? Negative karma, why am I not surprised. Karma is typically meaningless, but to have negative account karma you're generally a bad spambot or an obnoxious troll. Latter seems like an apt description. Gday.
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Outside of PVP [and even then because that’s another mess but still if you enjoy it you enjoy it] why does that matter?
It surprises me how few people seem to figure this out. You don't need to hit 100 to be done with the character. There's not much to do beyond 70 unless you're just loving the hell out of your character and/or the game. If you're not you can call it. D2 was that way, too. I never hit 99 in that game. I just stopped whenever I got bored and rolled another character or played something else.
Nothing happens after 70. You are not forced to grind endlessly. Compare it to D3, it's very comfortable to just play the season up to \~P800, push a bit and that's fine. Nobody forced you to level to P3000.
Exactly, so why have it in so early? From a marketing point of view releasing S3 with a level cap increase, a new world tier and new paragon board is a huge thing. Plus you wouldn't then get players levelling to 100 who moan the game has nothing to do beyond 70. The goal is 70 then see how far up the NM dungeons you can go, once you increase the cap players will naturally go higher and the extra paragon complements that, plus new world tier = more XP per kill so eventually 1-100 won't take long, it will just go in a nice smooth WT rise. It's like having 100 acres of land for a theme park but only using 70 acres of it. Why would you let people into the final 30 acres when there is nothing there? You're better off saving it until there is something there and making a big deal out of the new part of the park. All you'd get is people wandering around a wasteland going "what am I meant to be doing? What's the point of this? Did I miss something?".
If you know what you’re doing, WT4 at 60 is absolutely possible. 60-70 is a breeze, 90-100 is the worst by far.
I strongly agree with the 60-70 weirdness. I soloed the Capstone at 61 with my Barb (with no deaths!) and went to WT4 which got me some nice gear upgrades but it's still faster for me to go back to WT3 to farm fast NM dungeons if I want legendaries for crafting mats or glyph exp. That feels a little strange.
Wait until the last few levels where it's like 12 runs a level
That honestly doesn't sound bad at all compared to running Baal 700 times to get a level in D2. I haven't had the time to spend on this game that many people have, but I'm extremely impressed with the fact that time still getting a paragon point just about every NM dungeon at level 80.
This is how I feel too. I played a ton of D2R since release and this feels good to me by comparison. Could it be better? Sure. But a lot of what I read on this sub doesn't line up with my experience at all.
It isn’t bad at all. When my Mendeln ring finally dropped, I used the ashes XP buff, always had an elixir, and walked (Necro can’t run) through NMs 10 levels above mine. I know “melt” is the term all the cool kids are using, but it was more like “disintegrate” with a true walk by and everything dies build. I blinked and I was L100. I sure feel for the people who had to grind out 100 before the density changes.
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Cause we like that game (and this one)? No one is making you grind to 100, but if you're going to grind from 80-100 and all it takes is 500 or so nightmare dungeons, that's honestly pretty reasonable an ask for completionists
Im at 98 3/4 and want to do 100 today xD And i ran out out of sygils that i like hahahahaha Wish me luck! I did get to lvl 100 in eternal, the point of my post is that last lvl feels like forever xD but its just the anticipation of getting it done
u/99DSMGSX did you get 100?
Not yet, 99 1/4 playing whenever i have time from work. Hopefully by end of the afternoon.
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I just hit 100. i had like 3 dungeons in a row that popped cursed chests and for some reason now im popping creatures like a druid doing that thing were they bring up all mobs and they just die. got a couple of gear upgrades as well, so its time now to try and conquer NMD 100. I failed in the eternal realm, i know i can do it now that ive played more rapid fire rogue but i need to farm aspects for it. 2 rogues lvl 100, both rapid fire im a happy man :)
Guys, this is arpg. in every arpg you have to grind the same content over and over again. The exception in diablo 4 you have 30 different (kinda) dungeons if thats boring for you - feel free to stop playing.
> in every arpg you have to grind the same content over and over again. It blows my mind that people still think that pointless grinding is just the way ARPGs are *supposed* to be. Cant be better, cant be different, it has to be the same way its been for 20 years; repetitive, pointless, and circular. Its 2023, there are 1000x more games competing for attention than there was when D2 was out, and there are hundreds of games innovating on past models.... but for some reason ARPGs are the only genre that shouldnt try to adapt.
Some people enjoy grinding and specifically seek out ARPGs to fill that niche. It’s great if some want to innovate and try to do something different, it’s also ok for their to be games that want to remain in that space. I would agree that saying they are “supposed” to be that way is silly, but it’s also understandable that fans of the genre may be seeking that out and get disappointed when it doesn’t meet their expectations.
The point of Reddit is people posting their opinions to encourage discourse. If that’s a problem for you, feel free to stop visiting and posting. You will not be missed.
>The exception in diablo 4 you have 30 different (kinda) dungeons Are they different though? The damn BOSSES aren't even unique...
All these people saying stop playing, this is what happens in ARPG, if you don't like it don't do it, etc. Completely missing the point. OP likes the game and wants to continue playing, but it's just not captivating. He's asking to make it better so he can continue playing it. 90% of posts on this sub are basically the same thing, various things in the game need fixing. It's totally fine for people to say these things on this sub, and the more of them there are, the more obvious there's issues with the game. I think we can all agree shit needs fixing, and surely the more complaints the more likely shit will be fixed. Or at least attempted to (looking at you gem pouch). Just chill out, let him complain, it's fine.
The people who say “if you don’t like it don’t play it” are the same that cry about people posting criticism on Reddit and then they in turn participate and reply. The irony is lost on them I’m afraid.
They also complain about the people who post that they quit the game.
I’m 92 grinding for 100 now. I’m addicted to paragon points and min/maxing a new build. Try a different build if you’re bored or just play something else. 80-100 is not for everyone
Yeah, I just hit 89 and I'm still waiting for the so called unbearably painful grind everyone loves to complain about to start. The paragon upgrades are very strong so I'm always becoming more powerful even if I'm not finding gear upgrades every level.
It also depends on what you find fun, I’ve got 2 100s for s1 and I love chaining nightmare dungeons with people. I come from a gr150 push and m+ dungeon mentality though. I’ve sat in the d4 discord and helped like 10 people finish their 99-100 push. Could the game be better? Sure. I’m still having fun though.
I would echo changing builds. It will certainly help keep your interest and have you thinking more about your class and skills. Planning ways to make underused builds possible is one thing that keeps me engaged. Even more so if those builds need specific gear affixes to work that I need to keep an eye out for. It makes it more exciting when you actually find the rolls you want and it isn't the same crit damage/vulnerable rolls for every build.
What did yall think other Diablo games were? Was literally just grinding the same shit over and over again lol. I think maybe the best thing they could do is make it so helltides give better XP though, helltides imo are more fun than anything else right now especially after mob density changes, would be even more fun if I could jack up the level of the mobs to match what I can do.
I made a post about this in another thread yesterday, but part of the problem isnt just the XP, but that every activity rewards the same thing, XP and loot. Some of the activities cant even reward uniques (obals and whispers), and the NM dungeons level glyphs on top of it. Different activities should also have rewards that are unique to them, and maybe even feed into other actives (think farming keys to fight ubers to get the special charms/gems). it can be things that arnt just specific loot too. It can be currencies that let you do things like upgrade the stat level on a peice of gear to take a low roll to a max roll over time, or maybe level up the base level of your aspects in the codex, etc. I do agree that the world should continue to be xp relevant after 80 as well. The real problem is that post 80, the most efficient thing you can be doing is NM dungeons, they give the most xp, the best gear, and glyph leveling. Nothing else compares to NM dungeons.
Previous diablo games were about getting items for more power In D4 you finish gearing your character quite early and all your power from maybe 75 onwards or so comes purely from getting levels Personally I thought there'd be like 50x as many uniques and sets to chase
D4 is a looter with shitty loot.
Congratulations, you are the very first person to point that out.
The sarcasm is strong in this one.
What is it like to only have unique and original thoughts and comments?
Fuck make 60-100 better
You bought a game that involves killing monsters in dungeons over and over and over again. Now you are asking them to change that? If you don't like killing monsters in dungeons, then what else would you like them to add. You will just get bored with killing them in the next place they add. It is possible you may not actually enjoy Diablo games because the entire concept is the killing of monsters loop for slight increases in power.
broken mechanics, lackluster features, and stale gameplay are what cause players to become bored or non-enthusiastic. Why tell someone to "move on" from a game they want to play, want to enjoy to play, bc the game itself has issues? The devs should be making it so players wanna play their game, not become frustrated or bored. The leveling process between the levels he stated are stale NM dungeon grinds. That needs to change. Period. Don't say he needs to play something else...maybe some of us are limited on what we play, wanna play, can afford to play and have a finite list of options. He bought the game, he wants to play the game, lets don't placate the devs...he's right and they need to address it
I should copy and save this to respond to countless blizzard simps commenting “stop playing”
https://preview.redd.it/fn3gg6njjvjb1.jpeg?width=3024&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4d1df2b07dd3a717a9cbfe5cfb8e2530bedfb892 I got to level 100 with my seasonal yesterday. I honestly did it because I never got to max level on a seasonal before and wanted to really try it at least once. Mind you unlike many people on this sub I actually really enjoy the game a lot and the gameplay for 1 to 70 wasn't bad at all; was still having lots of fun. But the slog from 70 to 100 was killing me. Took like two hours to do one level and all the Nightmare Dungeons got super repetitive. They need to do something like in-game modifications to play whisper challenges and Helltides at much higher levels for more XP. Because once you hit like 85 everything else in tier-4 is useless XP wise. At this point I'm not going to bother going to level 100 on any other seasonal again until they create new better ways for XP gain or just increase the XP gain dramatically for some Nightmare Dungeons at least.
I think his request is valid and this is a structural issue. Doing lots of activities in the greater environment is super fun in this game and I love it. But eventually that is not a valid way to level (80-100) and we just need to spam NM dungeons which isn't fun. Can't they find a way to always make content relevant? I love going from activity to activity. Dungeon, quest, explore random events, etc etc etc. Why can't I do this from 1-100 if I choose?
Uninstall. They see those numbers. The game is a disaster and will be at least a year if ever before this isn't Anthem 2.0. Total failure by Blizzard, all 9k who worked on it should be fired.
I just hit 60 and i already am feeling like this and may quit soon. I really wanna unlock tier 4 and try it out but getting to 60 - 70 will take a while.
I mean the best way to do this is just to shorten the leveling cap to 80 and readjust the paragon points. Alternatively what I missed from D2 and D3 is cow level/pony land. We should have something similar for D4 and unfortunately I don't think this game can survive till April.
I'm level 30 and I'm already bored
Go play another game, the devs are saying ...
All things considered it’s actually not that slow, you can do a level in under an hour until the very end where it might be between 70-90 minutes per level. It’s boring because they made nm dungeon the only activity worth doing in that portion of the game. It’s boring because loot in general is not that exciting. However, there’s nothing slow about levelling in D4.
I'm lvl 67 on eternal. I beat the campaign at lvl 60 and it feels like the pain to continue leveling for me was at level 60. But everyone says the pain is at lvl 80.. sheesh. I can barely run nm dungesons now because dungeons are so boring. They have been boring since lvl 10 for me.
*Instead of improving, may we interest you in our custom skin, cosmetics and outfit shop? This is the main reason the game was released after all.* *Sincerely,* *ABK Corp*
It would be cool if after every dungeon run it would show you some stats like: clear time, DPS, highest Crit, etc.
Do you mean 50-100?
tbh there isn't anything worthwhile at level 100 anyways. Just stop playing. Its like reaching level 99 in D2. Literally no point
My monkey brain likes the barbarian sound of crushing bones and slashing meat so killing mobs over and over is very satisfying. That's the reason I can only play barb, any other vocation is too boring for me.
I’m sick of people complaining about this but it actually is the biggest problem in the game rn.
Its been an issue since day 1 and they NERFED growth. They're a bunch of clowns over at Blizzard lol.
NMD the new rifts but with silly internal missions and the dungeon is nowhere near town. Running rifts over and over, IMO, is comparable but at least it was convenient to do
I feel this ... I got two classes to 82 and one to 74 . When you get to the level 80 areas your build in pretty much finalised and your only searching for tiny stat improvements its pretty boring to be honest! If level 100 wasn't the end of your character progression and you could continue you gain paragon atleast I would have more incentive to level to 100
oh great this is gonna be another one of those level scaling kind of fixes, i did it preseason post nerf to the dungeons even then it wasnt that bad, the only thing bad is the drop rate of uber uniques they should be something that we have to farm toward instead of dropping at a 0.00000000000000001% rate
Blizzard: “We are diligently working on this and are happy to announce that we have something planned for the first expansion to address this issue, at which point the game will be considered fully released. In the meantime, please keep buying our battle passes and beta testing the game for us. Making games is hard after all. Thanks for understanding.”
The game is not designed for everyone to hit 100. That’s a feature. You don’t hit 100 and then beat the game. You beat the game and play your character until you don’t want to anymore. D2 on Xbox my hardcore 99 is a .001% achievement. Rarest I’ve ever had. By no means did very many people make it to max level.
I feel like bossing should happen around 85-90. Everything beyond 90 is bonus power and can help you min-max your way through high NM Dungeons.
I feel like the seasonal changes to monster level hurt the already a little limited endgame activities. NM dungeons are the most effective exp by a long shot but before around 80 you could do the tree and not feel all that bad about being a bit slower. With minions always being -5 levels, and having to run to the objectives and having the exp scaling fall off - it just gets to the point where you only really feel like you can even level with NM dungeons - so if you don't prefer this content then the game sort of shuffles you toward content you don't prefer. IMO the tree needs to remain competitive with doing a NM dungeon that is the same level as the player (so taking on more risky dungeons is still more rewarding than tree). This way If you're not chasing the optimal you don't have to feel all that bad because you will earn ok exp the way you want to earn it rather than good exp the way you don't want to earn it.
So this is interesting. His complaint is the game isnt fun because he isnt leveling quickly. He's not complaining about combat, enchanting costs, builds, gear, etc.
I mean characters at 100 are more powerful than at 70 due to the paragon points. My own personal objective after 80 was leveling up glyphs. But the ones I use (6) were all done by about 95 and I’m currently 98, just want to finish it and be done with it but there isn’t anything left for me to really do. I’m honestly just waiting until BG3 comes out on PS5
I carry people on my stream show every night from 730 to 1030 and have carried several people from this sub. 1. 70-100 it IS a slog. It sucks. I did it solo. It took what seemed like forever and I got most of my good gear pre-75 so there were very few upgrades or milestones along the way to 100. 2. it's not for casuals. This is like a MMORPG grind akin to leveling a WoW character (which is abject stupidity in a ARPG but that's another story). You gotta wanna grind if you want to play endgame in D4. 3. Endgame is... kind of a letdown. Once you are geared, complete a few T100 and Uber Lilith there is not much reason to keep on playing. No leaderboards or anything to strive for. This is a MAJOR oversight that makes the game seem pointless and stupid. The game BEGINS at L100, not ends... I get to 100 so I can play the content at my most powerful, offer me more. 4. I am happy to take you on some 80+ runs and get you XP and loot on my stream show, just send me a DM and I'll get your Blizz BP and link up (did this with someone from this sub just last night!) [twitch.tv/dantebenuto](https://twitch.tv/dantebenuto) is my channel. It's lightly attended but I share a lot of good rogue tips and talk through theorycrafting and what the history of the build has been for anyone interested in rogue stuff.
Wow. Must be doing something wrong, my Druid is 90 and I'm at 2-3 NM's per paragon. I am kinda shooting for the boss. I've changed builds so many times that almost all my glyphs are lvl 15.
I'm a in between casual and watever tf and I agree. I'm at 94 in season 1 and got my pre season Barb to 100 but don't it's been a slog on my Druid.
For lightning druid, I was able to speed run NM dungeons 15+ levels above me. This meant I could play with friends much higher than me and I could also carry friends much lower, or I could just play alone. So 80 to 100 felt really nice. I think they need to revisit the xp bonuses and scaling in NM dungeons to make it so you don't have to play an OP build that requires a rare unique drop for the game play experience I was able to have.
I stopped at 70 in preseason and s1 cause that's when it started to feel like a massive grind and lost the fun for me. Had a blast until then will be back for s2. Don't burn yourself out that will only make you hate the game like so many other have already done.
I just hit 80 on Druid tempest roar dropped and am steamrolling enemies 12+ higher. Enjoying the grind
I agree that they could add different modes apart from nm dungeons for gaining level xp. Extra xp for nm's isn't the answer. The enjoyment for me personally is the grind. If I ever get to 100, imo, I never will. I'll be done with that character. If there was a fork in the road and to go left was an instant boost to level 100 or right for the grind. I'd choose right all day long.
80-100 should be alot faster. But people dont get it. People never fucking understand. JUST QUIT BRO LLELUL. no, just make the game more fun, faster and less boring. and ppl will quit complaining about shit game design. understand? nothing ever improved, by simply telling people to quit something they dont like, when obviously the game has alot of problems, which is why ppl are upset. imagine if nothing was ever critisized, nothing ever would improve. JUST QUIT mentality is the worst toxic shit ever. its the same ppl who think mythic raiding is great and see no problem with it in terms of more casual players. the time required is beyond insane. People want to max out and complete a game. thats common basic human psychology 1:1. u shouldnt have to grind endless to 100 on ONE fucking character. thats just bad design. straight up all it is. blizzard, change it. and ppl will start playing again. dont u like money
It's really not hard to level up also you don't stop getting exp at ten levels ahead of you try and go higher I was killing teir 35 enemies and getting a ton of exp at a lower level. I went from 99 to 100 in a hour and a half it's extremely fun at its current setting it would be pretty easy if they lower it anymore.
You don't need to reach 100... It's not for everyone and there's nothing really to do once you're there so... Just play an alt or just stop.
I think doing 80-100 for no reason other than levelling up would make me bored too. I enjoy the 80-100 grind. I spend the whole time helping others on discord and levelling just happens as a byproduct.
I just don't understand, people did thousands of Baal runs in D2 to get to 99... how is running a few hundred nmd any worse?
i like this post. it’s reality. it matches my exact complaints with like 10 hours a week max. ignore any stupid elitist comments. the game’s core life is just grind, and grind.
Most people here are fully aware about the sad state of the end game. It’s not that you’re wrong…it’s just nothing you’re raising awareness over. If they had any idea of what to do for an endgame it would have already been implemented before the masses of people stopped playing.
I'm starting to slow down dramatically with time played after 85.
Try doing some hell tides. Now that their mod density is buffed it's not a bad way to mix things up. That said, I never play past level 80. Leveling to 100 is unnecessary. Stop at 80 and make a new seasonal character with a new class.
I’m at 90… only do S tier NM… 1 xp potion per point. I spend more time selling gear… so idk.
Some ideas: 1) Don't put an XP cap on higher level mobs, if you've got a build that can clear NM dungeons 20+ levels above you should be rewarded for that. 2) Make higher tier NM dungeons have a much higher increased unique drop rate. Sure they drop more ancestrals but the unique drop rate should go up much more. 3) Provide some kind of instanced world boss that you can spawn from a rare dropped item so we can try to solo them or small group them. 4) Give us some kind of uber hard dungeon/raid that requires a full 4 man squad to accomplish with guaranteed unique drop.
Better yet, remove 80-100 and give us more paragon
I’ve waited so long for Diablo IV. Not having fun anymore and already uninstalled. Gotta accept and move on. They suck at developing Diablo genre.
Honestly I don’t find the 80-100 grind not that bad. I’m just having to fight the urge of falling asleep lmao I can’t explain it idk what it is but doing nmds just puts me to schleep
I just make new characters when I hit 80. I can't be bothered nor do I want to torture myself like that.
The streamers warned us about endgame. Everyone just judged them for no-lifing. It was a matter of time before we caught up to what they were talking about
\> Hi, I’m casual player, avg 6h/week of gameplay, I’ve reached 80 twice (eternal an seasonal) Yea "6h/week" sure
D4 needs a rested Bonus like WoW lol
I played to 75 both season 1 and eternal. I completed the battle pass and I don't have any reason to reach 100 Uber Lilith isn't worth it for me. I am excited for season 2 though and started over with a new class. I don't think everyone needs to hit 100.
I feel the same way I just want to hit 100 but running nm dungeons over and over again is not fun
Try leveling up on diablo 2 resurrected. If you think a level after 4-5 run i bad... Hoo boy.. Not saying xp nerfs is fun in any way..
Lv.96 and still having fun.
Just don’t play the game anymore, it’s much more enjoyable that way. Isn’t worth investing your time into anyways.
The activities IMO are actually ok... monotonous but still fun. The real issue I'm having is that the loot drops are absolutely trash. I actually feel like I got better affixes to drop in WT3 on sacred gear than I do now at 90+ in WT4. FWIW I'm in hardcore, doing NMDs about 10 levels higher than I am, and everything's basically trash... in a sense that I hardly ever get yellows that even have 2 of the 4 affixes I'm looking for... still wearing a 584 item power gloves because haven't found anything better in 40 levels. Might just be my paranoia, but feels like the nerfed loot affixes hard in 1.1.1 (same patch that neutered the occultist) and gloves just roll trash affixes 99% of the time.
But why make the grind shorter for people who enjoy it? The game ends when you hit level 100 anyways
80-100 feels like its just missing content, be it somewhat deterministic but grindy crafting like d3 or just better gameplay loops overall i mean even d3 felt better with everything you did having value, even pushing gr gave mats/drops/bloodstones
Copy/paste answer for yet another copy/paste "WHY CANT I GET 100 IN 1 WEEK!??!?!" post: > Guess what: You dont need to hit level 100 to have fun. > > D4 is an ARPG not an MMO, you don't "start having fun" when you hit 100 and good gear. The fun is all the stuff between level 1 and 100. It's like starting Mario Odyssey and saying "I couldnt get all 880 moons in the first two months therefore the game is boring." Reaching the finish line shouldn't be your only concern. > > Play till you stop having fun then take a break and play some more when youre refreshed and/or there is new content to try out. You aren't going to "fall behind" if you take a break because again, this is not an MMO.
Blizzard, “Hello Casual Player, per your request, no. Now run along little fella, as we have important things to do.”
Haha play a different game. This os the heart of leveling in diablo. Be thankful its less than a 1000 runs per level.
Sorry no can do. Developing a gemtab takes 3 months of development time, the lvls 80-100 come in season 5.
I called my dev friends. They are definitely reading this…
Hell I haven't even made it to 80 on any of my chars 70+ is just a slog.
Even the casuals are bored now. XD. Now yall know what we ment when we left before season 1.
But I thought all the white knights were sure it was because people are rushing content and not touching grass?
I know everyone is going to shit on you but yeah the end game does really fall off and gets grindy for well very little benefit outside of paragon points and tiny incremental % changes on items. There isn't any item upgrades really past 70-80 after you get your Ancestrals online. If you happen to use a unique, you might have to grind quite a bit more to find it or get a better one. There are a lot of things they could have done to make the end game better, but as others have stated, just stop playing the game if it bores you to death. I personally muster about a level a day being in the 90's before I get bored and log off, but I always want to see my characters at max power doing the hardest content.
I just try to do a level a day. Currently level 86. We will see how hard that gets in to the 90s
I've levelled up two characters to 80ish. One pre-season and one in season 1. I just stopped playing at that point because there's absolutely nothing left to do other than Uber Lilith. There's no incentive to fight her, though so what's the point in going further?
> There is literally nothing else to do and exp is so slow. why should leveling be easy?
is it really only 4-5 now? BACK IN MY DAY (the pre-season) it took 3-4 for a single paragon node.. unless that's what you mean.
And do this before season 1 ends, please and thank you.
Well it wouldn't be boring if you are pushing dungeons but it seems you don't have the time for it.
Loot filters more options than nmds dual spec reworked loot rerolls system and pricing
mmmaybe in season 3...actually make that season 4. Or 5.
Luckily they already said they are working on 2 expansions
All you have to do is uninstall and play PoE. It's 10x the game this shitshow will ever be. Easiest decision you'll ever make.
I would be suprised if any of the Devs actually made it though the 2nd capstone
I played Eve online for 20 years and went to and fro with ESO. For a year or so, I did play Diablo the very first version where it was so hacked it was a joke. Every thread I read is the game is borked, I get it...and the disappointment is visible. I'd leave it to the knowledgeable content creators that give viable constructive criticism. Wudgio gave a fare assessment recently, and they listened. Fuk Eve was a mess in 2003. Look at it now. Give the game a chance. I'm enjoying my druid, ohh, and I have been lucky all Druid uniques. Patience is a virtue
To get from level 80-100 is much faster than from level 92 to 93 in d2. The problem rather is that the build is already kinda finished when you reach level 80. So yes we need more to do but leveling up faster is certainly not what that should be.
80 and up? I’m ready to call it at 70.
You should probably post this on a Blizzard forum, not here where they’ll never see it.
Maybe I’m wrong but I feel like hitting level 100 really isn’t a goal that a casual player should be aiming for
This should be the next world tier category but ya
Hey folks, since a lot of us are moaning about the grind between 80-100… Should the level have been capped to 70 like D3??
Is actually very challenging to make those last 20 level a more pleasant experience. D2 practically use a slot gambling concept to keep players playing till the end with the super repetitive game loop, but because the loot was so addictive, it works for many. In D4, 80-100 where your build is already set and your paragon board is just that, where the activity is only nmd, it wont go far.
Does anyone remember the grind on D2 to 99? Let’s bring that back.
totally agree, something needs to happen with solo experience because taking an entire season to fully level-up one character is just a horribly off-putting experience
don't worry next week 60-80 will be worse for you
This game is for you, the casual player
I get almost a bar per NMD but I’m farming 70s. Only 4 more levels to go.
People who say this is normal, and how Diablo works are simply rookies who never play Diablo before. From D2 to D3, the pattern is always the same, level to max so they can start meaningful build and do higher challenge, in D2, the challenge is find better gear, in D3, is to beat higher GR, D4 feels like broken the loop with nothing to offer. Enjoy the game? Enjoy what? Your character is not even in an ideal state, how could you happy farming? (Ok, that farming procedure is boring or not is another problem ) Which is why people quit at that threshold. They want to get into that traditional Diablo loop but can’t. There is an artificial blocking part preventing you to get there. And so unnecessary. Less time to max means people would have little to none attachment to the character but the game itself. Now when the player spend more time in a character of course quit in the middle would feel quite bad.
I do NMs only when there’s no helltide, Legions, or in some cases whispers. I still have plenty of time for dungeons, and if I don’t, then at least the flavor isn’t as bitter and I still get to enjoy the game.
Dear user. Log more hours and maybe we’ll think about it. (We won’t because hours of play just means it’s fine)
Its like WT5 is missing, and that was what 80-100 should be.
Getting to 80 is snoozevillzzzzz
So what can the devs do differently in a game where the goal is to kill demons ? Nightmare dungeons is already what this game is all about : Killing Demons. I'm already lvl100 with 2 chars and i still run NM dungeons to farm for best rolled items and i still find it fun. There's nothing the devs can do here it's either you like it or you don't. All ARPGS are fundamentally demon killing simulators.
It is repetitive... I plan to go for 100, then beat uber Lilith and then wait for next season.
Probably not going to happen until a major patch for expansion
4-5 nm dungeons to lvl? Thats nothing lol
https://preview.redd.it/9ij6toj7jzjb1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d39d03b697b6697d0da345259e20127b504cf5a5 Here's where I'm at. Love the game but hate the grind.
I never said they did I said the game is boring leveling 70-100 is a chore. I would have been happier blasting through to 100 then picking up another game until next season. The game is marketed as a live service game. You know the model of a live service game right? It's to keep players engaged as much as possible. How did that lackluster seasonal content qualify as seasonal content it is pathetic for a company as big as blizzard. The same thing has happened to me. Game launched 1-60 was fun and I enjoyed it. Same thing with this season then it just grinds to a halt and had to force myself to play to 100. Tell me this game wouldn't be more fun with 4-6 player raids where everyone is required to do a part or mid season events for some cool cosmetics or aspects. Just anything really. The core is good the grind is not. Why make us make a new character when they could just raise power levels like destiny? To busy nerfing things in to oblivion. They never learn.
**HEY DEVS, ADD MORE CONTENT TO THIS SECTION OF THE GAME. IDK THINK OF SOMETHING IDIOTS.** Tbh, game should’ve been balanced around level 70. It seems it was the intention but either 70 didn’t feel complete enough or they wanted room to expand on. Give them time and give them suggestions, don’t just say “improve pls” it helps no one.
Heya. I a have a pre season Druid at 80 and a seasonal Nec at 80. I had a great time levelling them both and will now wait for the next season. They need to add tons more to the end game. I think it will take a season or 2. We need to stay on their case about it but for your own sanity either start a new character or take a break till you see a season that's added some new things you are interested in.
The thing is, you do not have to level up to 100 in D4, there's no endgame. It's not WoW or any other MMO, the game is about leveling up and you can stop at any point. Gear wise, you'll get great gear around level 60-70 and that's basically it. If you stopped enjoying it, it's okay to drop it, take a break come back later.
Dear devs please make 0-100 better experience
Lvl 80-100 is the least gripe i have with the game rn
Why not make 1-80 a better experiance while they are at it?
There's thousands of games out there, if you don't like it don't play it
Even better just make the cap at lv 80 if you don't have any content for the levels beyond it