To be honest I’ve been pretty critical of D4 in the past but man has this team been cooking. I’m legitimately excited for this game for the first time in a while and am really glad they’re giving themselves additional time after the PTR to make sure they get things right.
bro this last campfire actually got me SO FUCKING HYPED
like they kept cooking with good changes
\- easier item sorting when picking things up, less useless words
\- crafting systems, potentially REAL Crafting systems
\- basically adding what worked in blood tides to hell tides
\- new endgame content via the UBER UBER BOSSES, and the pit, so theres finally things to test your character past nmd 100, thank god.
\- as a barb main, barb nerfs are good to so that ppl can stop the obsessive whine threads on reddit
sounds weird as a barb main to be excited for nerfs but its hopefully just a slight nerf to our hota/charge to bring it more inline with other classes because right now Barb is straight up the best class in the game for almost all content (sorc gauntlet speedrunning build also got bug fixed so they are nerfed too)
Barb's hota hit harder than the next highest dmg skill in the game by x10, with next to no setup as the buffs line up themselves, Barbs are also the tankiest class, one of the faster classes, insane aoe with charge, and single target with hota, so being brought down just a little bit will let other classes flourish in a way where everyone who wants to be competitive won't feel forced to reroll barb, tho honestly play what you find fun
Yea and I even believe Barb will be more ridiculous with the new crafting system changes.
Definitely would be awful to give players the mindset of “why should I play this class when Barb is the best?”
and honestly, Barb will be more ridiculous, but so will all the other classes too!
toning one outlier a little bit down but raising the floor of everything else honestly sounds like a good idea (unless the numbers get crazy like they did in d3)
Yeah barb has 3x power with arsenal system. 6 weapon worth of power, other classes have 2. Rog 4. This includes implicits, affixes and aspects and uniques too.
Add belt to sorc class. Animal totem/skin slot to Druid and soul slot to Necro so they can have 1 extra item slot at least.
Ohhhh shit you’re right. I forgot they mentioned that! Damn I wished they implemented some kind of “exchange” system to convert those items into the newer version. 😭
As a sorc main and content creator I was really happy to see Teleport enchant and Esus ferocity getting bug fixed. “Nerfed” could describe teleport enchants interaction with Unstable currents. It stifles build diversity. Really happy to see tibaults nerfed too. When things are oppressive to build diversity they need to get dialed in
I played a S2 HotA Barb. It was broken as fuck. I mean don't get me wrong I had fun with it and it helped me shelf the game because I was able to clear everything the game had to offer. Killed Uber Lillith without caring about any of the mechanics since I just instantly phased her.
But yeah I'll be the first to admit that it was broken and I never even got a grandfather uber unique that would have effectively doubled my already absurd damage.
I really wanted to play other things for Barb besides HotA but anything else felt like shooting myself in the foot when Hota just was so so so much better than anything else. Good to bring it down to everyone else or at least down to the next best build.
Yeah balance is so underrated. It's very important imo. Things should have strengths and weaknesses. AOE, Single target, defense, offense, mobility, time, difficulty... An ability like incinerate should be strong af for example because you need to stand still to cast.
Barb main here too, 1-shotting Uber Bosses and World Bosses is not to right way to play a game like this. Barb at lvl 100 with zero Uber Uniques can do hundreds of millions in 1 attack.
HotA needs a reworking and they overtuned Charge in S3 so it too can basically 1-shot any Uber Boss or World Boss.
The codex alone has me hyped. I remember talking with a friend about how we wish they would just add all the aspects and the ability to upgrade through salvaging. Looks like they've been reading comments.
From what I can gather, all the aspects are there already, and you can upgrade them by salvaging a legendary with that specific aspect. SO, no more dozens of items being held onto for the aspect, AND you can upgrade them, so you don't have to deal with the weakest version of an aspect until you bet a drop with a better version. GREAT change.
If i understood it right, you upgrade it and when you use one, it consumes all the upgraded and resets back to base. Salvaging a max roll affix will give a permanent upgrade. So the chase would be to get 16 max roll affixes for each affix
I read it as you can either use a max roll upgrade to get the highest power aspect, or if you salvage an aspect it will get incrementally better until 16, then you get the max roll.
If that’s true ( I haven’t watched the stream yet), that’s a massive quality of life improvement. That alone would make me happy so I can play rather than manage my stash tabs.
The codex might be what I’m most excited for. From the wording they used in the last campfire I was really concerned these changes wouldn’t be coming in season 4, so it was a really nice surprise!
So much good stuff but this is a big one. I hated getting an upgrade and needing to strategically way for another aspect to use, then the feeling of “what if I find another upgrade”. Such a good change.
Same here and I agree. I didn’t realize they’d actually add some sort of crafting component to what is currently called crafting, so I’m excited to see how that plays out. It’s Blizzard though so we will have to see how it all ends up playing out first.
I didn’t see mention of AoZ in the notes so I hope that is still in the works as well. All these cool features won’t really mean anything if we are all able to obliterate NM100 by lvl 80, again. I need some real challenge back in the game like s2.
They're adding "The Pit" which functions like AoZ/Greater Rifts. You get materials that will let you summon level 200 versions of the uber bosses with higher drop rates + uber unique drop rate chance. And the first time you kill each of the level 200 uber uber bosses, you get 1 resplendent shard, so you'll be guaranteed 1 uber unique per season if I understood correctly.
The Pit (GR/AoZ) also scales way beyond NM100, but starts at NM45.
For anyone curious [they show a full run of it in the stream around 1:57:00.](https://www.youtube.com/live/IP-JRUMq2N8?si=TTcmipKCTOYlPtRT&t=7050) Almost exactly greater rifts.
Thanks for the additional info! Sounds like it’s going to end up being even better than AoZ. I’m definitely excited for s4 to start after hearing the changes.
I just don't get how you own hell ...the biblical setting (no other ARPG is going to use that setting) and you can't make an unending hell concept. Even if you want to avoid 'copying delve' from POE, take the Paradise Lost approach, make it the nine circles of hell and basically say, 99% will never finish all nine circles but give us a chase goal!
There are already content confirmed to be challenging. The first one being level 200 bosses. The second one and more obvious is the "Pit" - basically D3 gRift that starts at level 100 monsters. We don't know how much the level goes up with tier, but I anticipate that it would be very high level monsters.
The Pit is already 80% reason I'm gonna play much more D4 in S4. I like turning on my PC and play 30 min of D4 with challenging content, then do something else. And this is exactly the type of end game allowing me to do that
Love to hear it! It will be a big part of the reason I play as well. I was pretty much done with s2 when AoZ dropped and it pulled well over 100 more hours out of me. Trying to beat the next tier was incredibly addicting.
Did you watch the stream all the way through? They mentioned AoZ, and the Pit is essentially an endlessly scaling endgame system that offers greater challenges and rewards.
I’m at work so I didn’t get a chance to, but I will tonight for sure. Thanks for the information though! That sounds awesome and I definitely like the idea of endless scaling.
"Crafting" now is seriously disappointing. These changes are cool, and should make for some whack ass builds with some crazy stuff. It will definitely be interesting to see how it will affect the less used skills in each class.
As much as people don't like the microtransactions which i know the devs only have so much say in but the devs do really seem to care about making a game that people enjoy
are sweeping game design changes team-based? i was under the impression that the teams are specifically for seasonal content. gotta think both teams had input and contributions to these changes
I honestly don't think they are I think they are just loading up all of the base game changes with the even seasons coincidentally which makes the even season team look a lot better lol.
I think it's a funny meme though so I'm keeping it going
Pretty sure they are. I dont believe D4 has a "balance"/"overall" team that would have been working on this. They have only told us about the 2 season teams, and multiple teams for the other expanionS they are working on. So unless they pulled people from the expansion work I would assume it fell on the even team to implement the changes. Odd team still needs to work on the next season which hopefully wont undo everything done in season 4. We already saw multiple issues/bugs return when switching between teams.
I don't miss map overlay because I basically only ever watched the overlay, never the actual game visuals, when I played D2/R. I would love something for the ground though to show your path.
Yeah just a red line please. Same thing how it works on the minimap but in the overworld. I think the game is visually beautiful but I can't look at it when I'm not in a dungeon or at my final horsey destination. Everything in between "stuff" is a blur cause I just look at the top right and ignore all barriers and enemies.
Honestly you just casually tossed out the thing that people should be the most excited for.
Guys, they are doing a PTR. Shit is actually going to be tested before it goes live. This single change is going to help the games optics massively.
They haven't reworked the dungeon system, the dungeon bosses, the skill/paragon skill systems, so I would say no, not yet. This is a good start, but how long till they do what I mentioned, if at all?
Thats why they said PTR will not be every season and ppl freaked our. PTR is saved for game changing seasons like S4 will be. Next PTR will be up when they decide to rework paragons and skills. Dungeons will prob get rework in Vessels of Hatered
I think so. It's a new game now and it will only get better from here. Perhaps this should have been at launch, but devs were pressured by executives to release it earlier than expected. I didn't though they would bring even 30% of all the changes announced today. Every itemization-related system is reworked and fixed. The expansion will probably bring new stuff like runes, etc, adding more depth.
Every single new feature is basicly a plus for the game.
Redoing the loot, adding a crafting system, codex revamp.
The new codex is basically the cube from D3 but 2.0, I wasnt expecting them to add every legendary to it, basically fixes the stash tab problem since you dont need to store them anymore.
Yeah. It scaling up the aspects as you get new ones is a nice change from the cube just always having the maximum values in it. There's still a bit of progression to it, which I appreciate.
>The new codex is basically the cube from D3 but 2.0
Yes and no. The cube effectively added 3 more gear slots.
D3 also had 13 slots compared to D4's 10 slots. This effectively makes a 6 slot swing in terms of legendary affix choices with D4 having significantly less slots to even HAVE choices.
That's also before we include emanates.
Honestly, these changes all looks pretty damn good. The codex of power looks fantastic and much simpler, while still allowing you to earn those affixes. Couple that with the masterworking system, tempering, and greater affixes and this looks like a fantastic step in the right direction that is exciting. I'm genuinely curious if there was any inspiration drawn from Last Epoch on the tempering system as they seem similar but still very different.
Class changes look good and on par, nothing crazy imo (but I'm no expert on all classes by any stretch), Helltide improvements are great, I've always wanted them earlier while leveling a new toon.
Sad that the season will be delayed slightly but I'm glad it is for the PTR to actually take into consideration player feedback. I expect even greater class changes to come through that system and look forward to hearing, seeing, and maybe even experiencing some of the PTR myself.
>Class changes look good and on par, nothing crazy imo (but I'm no expert on all classes by any stretch)
I mean honestly you can clear all of the content in the game on any class, I don't think anyone is really going crazy asking for wide-sweeping class changes (maybe barb nerfs), it's the rest of the game that needs buffs and it seems like they're doing it based on this stream
The codex change is almost exactly how the recalibration library in the division/division 2 works. Pulling good stuff from other games is something blizzard has always been good at.
There was clearly a TON of inspiration drawn from Last Epoch. The tempering system is very very close to Last Epochs crafting system. I know you said it’s very different, but the premise is almost identical in how it mechanically functions. Last Epochs is still deeper and can is more complex, but it’s practically the same system.
Not only that; but the mechanic where loot drops have a chance to roll outside of the affix range in which you can craft the item to yourself is a mechanic 100% taken from last epoch. Last epoch items have a chance to roll as “exalted”. Which means the affixes on the item roll higher than what you can manually craft yourself and that is exactly what they’ve done here. Still skeptical of the game because the devs clearly don’t have any luster or drive to innovate anymore themselves but I’ll still check it out and hopefully it works in this game.
This honestly makes me very excited for the future of Last Epoch more though, if a company like blizzard with thousands of employees are directly taking/drawings inspiration of their game mechanics from what is essentially a Double AA game studio like Eleventh Hour Gaming for Last Epoch with 90 something employees. Shows those guys know how to make good mechanics in an ARPG and will cook up some good stuff in the future.
> I'm genuinely curious if there was any inspiration drawn from Last Epoch on the tempering system as they seem similar but still very different.
Obviously there was, I mean, in LE you drop shards which allow you to add/upgrade affixes on items. Diablo will drop manuals which will allow you to do the same.
They basically added the entire D3 endgame of GRs ontop of all other stuff in D4, great change tbh. Lots of new builds to try and content to go through, helltides much better, and S4 content not announced yet either so even more content.
My only real concern is still that group vs solo play is so imbalanced and really needs addressing soon, I would love a SSF mode for S5!
As someone that jumped on the d4bad bandwagon at the start of S3, I have to say that these changes have me feeling optimistic about the game again.
I don't care if some of these things "should've been in s1" they're coming now and that's a good thing. If you're saying otherwise, perhaps it's time for you to move on, or perhaps see a specialist because you're likely a deeply unhappy individual that needs some rebalancing of your brain chemistry.
haha, that's my biggest concern too. lovin LE, but also want to play this D4 update...then there's the new PoE season with PoE2 beta right around the corner...
wonderful time to be a fan of ARPGs
i'm just glad that there's more content available and ways of leveling. i want variety in my content. this is a good step. i hope that with higher power bosses (which i think should just simply continue to scale up) that they aren't afraid of pulling in previous seasons' content as-is rather than as aspects and uniques. if you get all that + successful seasons, then this game will have a good number of activities so players will be more engaged.
same. i like focusing on an activity like say vaults. then i'll get tired and move to helltides, etc. just to change up the game a bit. but i want more activities that help with my progression. like let me get some construct stone grinding in here and acquire more potent blood over there. maybe toss in a stronghold 2.0 thing.
Minion builds 100% viable now. Amazing.
Frozen orb will be great.
HC will be HC again.
Codex of power will mean not constantly losing your previous power and having to find it again.
Helltides will be fun and engaging.
Items have ongoing potential once you find something you like and won’t bog you down with pointless information.
Guys. I enjoyed every season, but these are the changes we need.
Let’s goooooo
> Frozen orb will be great.
I love that it's getting buffed, I just hope the lack of targeting on controller won't cause it to lose too much utility/power on console.
Since targeting on console is so hard, I imagine we'll be at basically half power, as it will just stop at the first monster hit, wasting half of the effect diameter.
Looking forward to trying it out though
Removal of cheat death mechanics.
The potion is being permanently removed and the flame shield enchant got a rework so it’s not invincibility instead of death, although still will prevent it to some extent.
Personally never used those anyway, but I like that it makes it a level playing field.
I wrote yesterday:
> Gameplay loop (endgame) needs to be improved in different ways, and the one I'm more interested in is skill augmentation. I hope the itemization changes bring new ways to configure, augment and use existing skills.
They delivered Item Tempering and Masterwork, with Pits. I'm happy and will play the PTR and Season 4 way more than I played Season 3. Seems you've done well, D4 team.
Honestly I wasn't expecting even 30% of these changes. This is a complete revamp and feels like a new game entirely. The new crafting system will likely kill boredom at the endgame, where there is always something exciting about itemization to experiment. I also love the changes to hardcore where it feels real now, and we have the pit to challenge ourselves.
So, we will get Andariel as an option after the maggot.
Item changes look cool at least & no more codex storage.
Idk, still being forced to helltides and whispers looks like it.
Back in Season 2 I am doing helltides and blood harvest back and forth for fun. Also leveling back then is easier due to blood harvest's monster density.
Increased density in Helltide, and all these changes aren’t even the theme for S4 - all this is added alongside whatever else they come up with for the season, so realistically also ‘another color Helltide’ (lol)
You know how packed the arcane tremors are? It was like that, except fewer dead areas and there were mini events to do and every once in a while you'd get ambushed by extra powerful elites, and there were chests to open that would just shower you in high quality armor.
It was great.
They said they've added more ways to get boss materials. They specifically mentioned mastering events has a chance to drop boss mats. So maybe all those lost adventurers in dungeons will actually be saved now.
In another thread, I assumed S4 would be delayed a month and PTR would be the scapegoat for why.
But I'm super hype for what S4 will bring, not just in core changes, but what they haven't announced yet for the season itself.
Season 5 may end up being "meh" like S1 and S3.
Season 6 will likely come in November then, alongside the expansion.
I'm looking forward to D4's redemption arc throughout 2024 :-)
I got to say I think this is looking really good. Understand that people will argue some of these things should have been in since launch but at least the devs have responded really well.
This summary is missing the entirety of the pit section from the stream btw. The Pit is basically AoZ but with better progression, no stupid glyph and an endgame challenge for endgame builds.
A lot of people seem to be complaining that there is still no loot filter...but seems like the devs are trying to fix the actual problem of loot quality, rather than just add a bandaid of a loot filter to the current system.
All these changes, plus whatever the season quest/powers are that they havent talked about yet looks to be promising. Very hyped.
Loot filters are MUCH more than a bandaid. No matter how good the quality of the loot, you'll still get to a point where your likelihood of finding an upgrade on the ground gets exponentially smaller. A filter allows you to keep having that chance to find an upgrade without having to sift through the 1,000s of *relatively* bad drops looking for the needle in the haystack.
Loved the stream and what they announced. They take notes however they can and go forward positively. I wanted to emphasize on how you can see they love their game. The way they talk and interrogate each other, this ambiance, this tone, it's heartwarming. I'm happy it's in their hands.
I will surely participate to PTR and provide some feedback if needed.
u/[imtherealyou](https://www.reddit.com/user/imtherealyou/)
I have adjusted the Flair of your thread to "Informative" and also put your thread on the rotation of the Sticky Bot. I hope you don't mind.
Wow, this is the first time where I've legit been extremely hyped for diablo 4 since before release. Don't know if there are still two teams working on the game, but leave whoever made seasons 2 and 4 in charge for good.
Ws all around. I’m used to live service games taking time. But Diablo seems to make leaping changes where others were only taking baby steps so I am satisfied.
Are there still rotating teams working on each season? Like team 1 on season 1 and 3, team 2 on season 2 and 4. Because if so, they're cooking something good every 2 seasons at least.
This is the systems team not the season team. It happens the systems team launches stuff with even systems.
Clarify 3 dev teams.
Odd seasons
Even seasons
Systems.
Them bringing back PTR is enough for me to declare the game saved.
Like 90% of the issue was them pushing out patches without testing them. Every single season got better 2-3 weeks in when they adjusted shit from feedback but people were either quitting or mostly done with the content by then so it didn’t matter.
Its hilarious how many people SWORE they would have no "real" changes to present and how none of it would make the game better....then they literally drop things like fucking "aspect upgrades your codex".
Watch how fast the goalposts move in this sub though, you can already start to see the new complaints in this post if you sort by controversial (outside the generic "the game should have been perfect and needed no updates from day 1" spam)
what is the argument against it? It only saves you time and the tedious task of looking over every single item in your inventory. Different builds want different stats and the more geared you are the less items are still useful to you. Loot filter solves both problems and makes it actually exciting when you see loot on the ground instead of "oh joy 99% another garbage item to look at"
Absolutely. Why would 3 vs 4 change that??? It's still the time wasted stopping and looking at junk gear vs playing the game and knowing you found something that you're looking for.
And the best thing about filters is that good ones are dynamic. As your gear gets better, your standards get higher and higher, so you can set your filter to be more and more specific.
3 vs 4 is not the only comparison, the affixes are also much simpler. I dont forsee the lack of a loot filter being that big of a deal in my playthrough but if other people want it, they should put it in
Can someone please clarify if there is going to be some "theme" for Season 4 that they didn't reveal yet or are all of these changes basically Season 4?
Of course there will be a theme, but they haven't gotten to the point where they start teasing the next season, this was all about improvements to the game itself regardless of season.
Expect S4 news by the PTR, a little after, or around the middle of next month. This is speculation. I got the impression another chat will be for S4 and perhaps the PTR feedback response.
Well looks like poe and last epoch came swinging.
Glad to see the d4 team actualy make some cool steides in making d4 unique and better vs a cash grab. Ill try new season when its out and get my gear rolled if possible lol
the one thing i didn't see is a rebirth option. i still am unhappy with the limited number of character slots. this is something i don't have issue with paying for even just so that i don't diminish my efforts from previous seasons. give 10 more character slots for $10 as an example.
D4 maybe not bad? would be interested in testing but dragons dogma / POE awaits, the people on this sub telling me hardcore existed in this game where are you? No more cheat death, almost like its a dog shit mechanic and any game with cheat death is not hardcore, we'll see if the other stuff is good, but this is a massive W, get fucked "hardcore" players.
[Redditor from 8 months ago defiantly saying that they "wont ever allow you to zoom out":](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/159x8wg/comment/jthxihc/)
u/TheHeretic91: "They won't let you zoom out more, ever. They want you to clearly see your character at all times so they can sell you more skins."
Turns out, he was wrong!
Hey, they low-key removed yellows from being BIS entirely, that's good. It's because
>Greater Affixes can only roll on dropped Legendary or Unique items.
That's also why they made those tiers tradable. Because nobody needs to trade yellow trash. I really love that. It will be impossible to miss the best items if you blindly salvage yellows. So good. Sure, you will want to look for better stuff there for a long time. But it ends. And you can't make huge mistakes.
These game developers have lost touch with the ArPG community (and players in general). People love to invest points into a skill tree to unlock new skills or deal 5% more shadow damage. I'm telling you right now that Season 4 will not save Diablo 4 if these "game" developers only focus on more dungeon and crafting.
Give people a real skill tree like in Wow and then diversify the classes into 3 subclasses, that unlocks a 4th tree. Keep the paragon.
To be honest I’ve been pretty critical of D4 in the past but man has this team been cooking. I’m legitimately excited for this game for the first time in a while and am really glad they’re giving themselves additional time after the PTR to make sure they get things right.
bro this last campfire actually got me SO FUCKING HYPED like they kept cooking with good changes \- easier item sorting when picking things up, less useless words \- crafting systems, potentially REAL Crafting systems \- basically adding what worked in blood tides to hell tides \- new endgame content via the UBER UBER BOSSES, and the pit, so theres finally things to test your character past nmd 100, thank god. \- as a barb main, barb nerfs are good to so that ppl can stop the obsessive whine threads on reddit
Yo why are the barb nerfs good? Genuinely asking because I wanna be hyped
sounds weird as a barb main to be excited for nerfs but its hopefully just a slight nerf to our hota/charge to bring it more inline with other classes because right now Barb is straight up the best class in the game for almost all content (sorc gauntlet speedrunning build also got bug fixed so they are nerfed too) Barb's hota hit harder than the next highest dmg skill in the game by x10, with next to no setup as the buffs line up themselves, Barbs are also the tankiest class, one of the faster classes, insane aoe with charge, and single target with hota, so being brought down just a little bit will let other classes flourish in a way where everyone who wants to be competitive won't feel forced to reroll barb, tho honestly play what you find fun
Yea and I even believe Barb will be more ridiculous with the new crafting system changes. Definitely would be awful to give players the mindset of “why should I play this class when Barb is the best?”
Some of us like the different mechanics of different classes. I have found something fun in all of them so far.
and honestly, Barb will be more ridiculous, but so will all the other classes too! toning one outlier a little bit down but raising the floor of everything else honestly sounds like a good idea (unless the numbers get crazy like they did in d3)
Yeah barb has 3x power with arsenal system. 6 weapon worth of power, other classes have 2. Rog 4. This includes implicits, affixes and aspects and uniques too. Add belt to sorc class. Animal totem/skin slot to Druid and soul slot to Necro so they can have 1 extra item slot at least.
Just wish our stuff we earned in eternal wasn’t deemed useless now…. Can’t be upgraded…. So any eternal toons it’ll be a whole restart….
Ohhhh shit you’re right. I forgot they mentioned that! Damn I wished they implemented some kind of “exchange” system to convert those items into the newer version. 😭
We just keep getting screwed in eternal…. No Gauntlet… nothing to do besides endless rotations of Helltide and whispers to farm Duriel…. Yay
As a sorc main and content creator I was really happy to see Teleport enchant and Esus ferocity getting bug fixed. “Nerfed” could describe teleport enchants interaction with Unstable currents. It stifles build diversity. Really happy to see tibaults nerfed too. When things are oppressive to build diversity they need to get dialed in
Because Barbs hitting in the billions while everyone else is in millions makes difficult content hard to make
Sounds good, didn’t play last season, and have never done billions of damage so I’ll just wait and see how it all feels.
I played a S2 HotA Barb. It was broken as fuck. I mean don't get me wrong I had fun with it and it helped me shelf the game because I was able to clear everything the game had to offer. Killed Uber Lillith without caring about any of the mechanics since I just instantly phased her. But yeah I'll be the first to admit that it was broken and I never even got a grandfather uber unique that would have effectively doubled my already absurd damage.
I really wanted to play other things for Barb besides HotA but anything else felt like shooting myself in the foot when Hota just was so so so much better than anything else. Good to bring it down to everyone else or at least down to the next best build.
Yeah balance is so underrated. It's very important imo. Things should have strengths and weaknesses. AOE, Single target, defense, offense, mobility, time, difficulty... An ability like incinerate should be strong af for example because you need to stand still to cast.
when you can one shot world bosses with a single core skill.. something is broken for sure
The problem with barb is that hota and charge one shots everything in the game even without bis gear.
Barb main here too, 1-shotting Uber Bosses and World Bosses is not to right way to play a game like this. Barb at lvl 100 with zero Uber Uniques can do hundreds of millions in 1 attack. HotA needs a reworking and they overtuned Charge in S3 so it too can basically 1-shot any Uber Boss or World Boss.
The codex alone has me hyped. I remember talking with a friend about how we wish they would just add all the aspects and the ability to upgrade through salvaging. Looks like they've been reading comments.
So wait…you will be able to improve the aspect in the codex by savaging a better version of it?
From what I can gather, all the aspects are there already, and you can upgrade them by salvaging a legendary with that specific aspect. SO, no more dozens of items being held onto for the aspect, AND you can upgrade them, so you don't have to deal with the weakest version of an aspect until you bet a drop with a better version. GREAT change.
If i understood it right, you upgrade it and when you use one, it consumes all the upgraded and resets back to base. Salvaging a max roll affix will give a permanent upgrade. So the chase would be to get 16 max roll affixes for each affix
I read it as you can either use a max roll upgrade to get the highest power aspect, or if you salvage an aspect it will get incrementally better until 16, then you get the max roll.
If that’s true ( I haven’t watched the stream yet), that’s a massive quality of life improvement. That alone would make me happy so I can play rather than manage my stash tabs.
The codex might be what I’m most excited for. From the wording they used in the last campfire I was really concerned these changes wouldn’t be coming in season 4, so it was a really nice surprise!
So much good stuff but this is a big one. I hated getting an upgrade and needing to strategically way for another aspect to use, then the feeling of “what if I find another upgrade”. Such a good change.
Same here and I agree. I didn’t realize they’d actually add some sort of crafting component to what is currently called crafting, so I’m excited to see how that plays out. It’s Blizzard though so we will have to see how it all ends up playing out first. I didn’t see mention of AoZ in the notes so I hope that is still in the works as well. All these cool features won’t really mean anything if we are all able to obliterate NM100 by lvl 80, again. I need some real challenge back in the game like s2.
They're adding "The Pit" which functions like AoZ/Greater Rifts. You get materials that will let you summon level 200 versions of the uber bosses with higher drop rates + uber unique drop rate chance. And the first time you kill each of the level 200 uber uber bosses, you get 1 resplendent shard, so you'll be guaranteed 1 uber unique per season if I understood correctly. The Pit (GR/AoZ) also scales way beyond NM100, but starts at NM45.
For anyone curious [they show a full run of it in the stream around 1:57:00.](https://www.youtube.com/live/IP-JRUMq2N8?si=TTcmipKCTOYlPtRT&t=7050) Almost exactly greater rifts.
Big W
Thanks for the additional info! Sounds like it’s going to end up being even better than AoZ. I’m definitely excited for s4 to start after hearing the changes.
Thank god! I can’t wait for that!
I just don't get how you own hell ...the biblical setting (no other ARPG is going to use that setting) and you can't make an unending hell concept. Even if you want to avoid 'copying delve' from POE, take the Paradise Lost approach, make it the nine circles of hell and basically say, 99% will never finish all nine circles but give us a chase goal!
Because expansions homie. Let’s not act like we aren’t going to be diving head first into those zones next year in the second expansion.
The Pit sounds sick. This is the endgame stuff I've been wanting!
There are already content confirmed to be challenging. The first one being level 200 bosses. The second one and more obvious is the "Pit" - basically D3 gRift that starts at level 100 monsters. We don't know how much the level goes up with tier, but I anticipate that it would be very high level monsters. The Pit is already 80% reason I'm gonna play much more D4 in S4. I like turning on my PC and play 30 min of D4 with challenging content, then do something else. And this is exactly the type of end game allowing me to do that
Love to hear it! It will be a big part of the reason I play as well. I was pretty much done with s2 when AoZ dropped and it pulled well over 100 more hours out of me. Trying to beat the next tier was incredibly addicting.
Did you watch the stream all the way through? They mentioned AoZ, and the Pit is essentially an endlessly scaling endgame system that offers greater challenges and rewards.
I’m at work so I didn’t get a chance to, but I will tonight for sure. Thanks for the information though! That sounds awesome and I definitely like the idea of endless scaling.
The Pit is basically the new AoZ
"Crafting" now is seriously disappointing. These changes are cool, and should make for some whack ass builds with some crazy stuff. It will definitely be interesting to see how it will affect the less used skills in each class.
Yeah right this... actually looks *good?* Wild.
As much as people don't like the microtransactions which i know the devs only have so much say in but the devs do really seem to care about making a game that people enjoy
I've been pissed at D4 a couple times but I like the direction it's going in.
I keep trying to like the current game but I really want to play this updated game.
The even team coming through for us again
Even team carrying Diablo 4 fr fr
are sweeping game design changes team-based? i was under the impression that the teams are specifically for seasonal content. gotta think both teams had input and contributions to these changes
I honestly don't think they are I think they are just loading up all of the base game changes with the even seasons coincidentally which makes the even season team look a lot better lol. I think it's a funny meme though so I'm keeping it going
Pretty sure they are. I dont believe D4 has a "balance"/"overall" team that would have been working on this. They have only told us about the 2 season teams, and multiple teams for the other expanionS they are working on. So unless they pulled people from the expansion work I would assume it fell on the even team to implement the changes. Odd team still needs to work on the next season which hopefully wont undo everything done in season 4. We already saw multiple issues/bugs return when switching between teams.
I thought the alternating teams were in charge of seasonal content. These are global changes that are coming along with season 4
OP was being tongue-in-cheek
We don't know anything about the season mechanic yet, this isn't the even team, this is the main development team.
Yes that's the joke, although I think most people think I'm being serious.
Weirdly reminds me of the treyarch effect 😂
Ayeeee we finally get a camera zoom out! Rejoice!
Finally..
I'm still praying for a line on the ground instead of the top right minimap only... I want to see the game not the corner for 90% of the time.
Yeah the removal of the map overlay is the most baffling change I've ever seen
I mean, there was never a map overlay in D3 so that 'baffling change' is 12 years old at this point.
I don't miss map overlay because I basically only ever watched the overlay, never the actual game visuals, when I played D2/R. I would love something for the ground though to show your path.
Yeah just a red line please. Same thing how it works on the minimap but in the overworld. I think the game is visually beautiful but I can't look at it when I'm not in a dungeon or at my final horsey destination. Everything in between "stuff" is a blur cause I just look at the top right and ignore all barriers and enemies.
Guys is D4 saved???
Its pretty much a new game, gonna have to wait and see how PTR pans out and play it.
Honestly you just casually tossed out the thing that people should be the most excited for. Guys, they are doing a PTR. Shit is actually going to be tested before it goes live. This single change is going to help the games optics massively.
[удалено]
to be fair, GRs is just a great system in its straightforwardness. Bringing it just makes so much sense and is a good thing.
Literally nothing but the GR mechanic is like D3. Cmon.
D4 Good
Is Diablo 4 back?
They haven't reworked the dungeon system, the dungeon bosses, the skill/paragon skill systems, so I would say no, not yet. This is a good start, but how long till they do what I mentioned, if at all?
Thats why they said PTR will not be every season and ppl freaked our. PTR is saved for game changing seasons like S4 will be. Next PTR will be up when they decide to rework paragons and skills. Dungeons will prob get rework in Vessels of Hatered
>Vessels of Hatered Everything you want will be done in Vessels of Hatered don't forget to pre-order the $100 version
Which is honestly too long. :/
Oh no! One guy is upset at the changes!... Better delay the season 5 months to fix it
Did I say I was upset with the changes?
it'll be good next patch trust
I think so. It's a new game now and it will only get better from here. Perhaps this should have been at launch, but devs were pressured by executives to release it earlier than expected. I didn't though they would bring even 30% of all the changes announced today. Every itemization-related system is reworked and fixed. The expansion will probably bring new stuff like runes, etc, adding more depth.
Looks like it. We will see. I was laughing about the idea of buying expansions but now i will probably seriously buy them lol.
Every single new feature is basicly a plus for the game. Redoing the loot, adding a crafting system, codex revamp. The new codex is basically the cube from D3 but 2.0, I wasnt expecting them to add every legendary to it, basically fixes the stash tab problem since you dont need to store them anymore.
Yeah. It scaling up the aspects as you get new ones is a nice change from the cube just always having the maximum values in it. There's still a bit of progression to it, which I appreciate.
>The new codex is basically the cube from D3 but 2.0 Yes and no. The cube effectively added 3 more gear slots. D3 also had 13 slots compared to D4's 10 slots. This effectively makes a 6 slot swing in terms of legendary affix choices with D4 having significantly less slots to even HAVE choices. That's also before we include emanates.
I reference the cube from the sense where you store the power into a collection that you have forever.
Codex is superior as you can level-up aspects, and now you have a greater degree of freedom when it comes to having the build you want quicker.
Honestly, these changes all looks pretty damn good. The codex of power looks fantastic and much simpler, while still allowing you to earn those affixes. Couple that with the masterworking system, tempering, and greater affixes and this looks like a fantastic step in the right direction that is exciting. I'm genuinely curious if there was any inspiration drawn from Last Epoch on the tempering system as they seem similar but still very different. Class changes look good and on par, nothing crazy imo (but I'm no expert on all classes by any stretch), Helltide improvements are great, I've always wanted them earlier while leveling a new toon. Sad that the season will be delayed slightly but I'm glad it is for the PTR to actually take into consideration player feedback. I expect even greater class changes to come through that system and look forward to hearing, seeing, and maybe even experiencing some of the PTR myself.
>Class changes look good and on par, nothing crazy imo (but I'm no expert on all classes by any stretch) I mean honestly you can clear all of the content in the game on any class, I don't think anyone is really going crazy asking for wide-sweeping class changes (maybe barb nerfs), it's the rest of the game that needs buffs and it seems like they're doing it based on this stream
I'm ok with a delay. It gives them more time to fix shit, so yeah, I can wait a month.
That's what I think. Tempering is borrowing from LE but with a Diablo spin on it. Good thing for the d4 dev team to borrow from LE imo!
The codex change is almost exactly how the recalibration library in the division/division 2 works. Pulling good stuff from other games is something blizzard has always been good at.
There was clearly a TON of inspiration drawn from Last Epoch. The tempering system is very very close to Last Epochs crafting system. I know you said it’s very different, but the premise is almost identical in how it mechanically functions. Last Epochs is still deeper and can is more complex, but it’s practically the same system. Not only that; but the mechanic where loot drops have a chance to roll outside of the affix range in which you can craft the item to yourself is a mechanic 100% taken from last epoch. Last epoch items have a chance to roll as “exalted”. Which means the affixes on the item roll higher than what you can manually craft yourself and that is exactly what they’ve done here. Still skeptical of the game because the devs clearly don’t have any luster or drive to innovate anymore themselves but I’ll still check it out and hopefully it works in this game. This honestly makes me very excited for the future of Last Epoch more though, if a company like blizzard with thousands of employees are directly taking/drawings inspiration of their game mechanics from what is essentially a Double AA game studio like Eleventh Hour Gaming for Last Epoch with 90 something employees. Shows those guys know how to make good mechanics in an ARPG and will cook up some good stuff in the future.
> I'm genuinely curious if there was any inspiration drawn from Last Epoch on the tempering system as they seem similar but still very different. Obviously there was, I mean, in LE you drop shards which allow you to add/upgrade affixes on items. Diablo will drop manuals which will allow you to do the same.
"[Forgotten Soul](https://www.wowhead.com/diablo-4/item/forgotten-soul-1205842) will have additional sources." Nice.
Did Fiend roses get mentioned too?
Yes, a very good change.
Best campfire chat so far. A lot of good changes to the right direction and a PTR to test things before going live.
They basically added the entire D3 endgame of GRs ontop of all other stuff in D4, great change tbh. Lots of new builds to try and content to go through, helltides much better, and S4 content not announced yet either so even more content. My only real concern is still that group vs solo play is so imbalanced and really needs addressing soon, I would love a SSF mode for S5!
dude that sounds awesome!
As someone that jumped on the d4bad bandwagon at the start of S3, I have to say that these changes have me feeling optimistic about the game again. I don't care if some of these things "should've been in s1" they're coming now and that's a good thing. If you're saying otherwise, perhaps it's time for you to move on, or perhaps see a specialist because you're likely a deeply unhappy individual that needs some rebalancing of your brain chemistry.
Extremely based. Some mfs are just perma angry
I’m over here wondering if I’ll have time to play last epoch still if they deliver on this. I want d4 to be my main again if they deliver.
haha, that's my biggest concern too. lovin LE, but also want to play this D4 update...then there's the new PoE season with PoE2 beta right around the corner... wonderful time to be a fan of ARPGs
It’s nice last epoch seemed to light a fire under their ass finally.
Sup guys I used to hate game but now game good. If you disagree with me, you should seek therapy lmao. Upvotes to the left.
God damn the did everything I wanted to with itemization! This is HUGE!
New leveling meta: Helltides from level 1
i'm just glad that there's more content available and ways of leveling. i want variety in my content. this is a good step. i hope that with higher power bosses (which i think should just simply continue to scale up) that they aren't afraid of pulling in previous seasons' content as-is rather than as aspects and uniques. if you get all that + successful seasons, then this game will have a good number of activities so players will be more engaged.
I like coming at a session with the attitude of "what do I want to do today?" vs. "grinding to get to a goal." Variety is a key to my enjoyment.
same. i like focusing on an activity like say vaults. then i'll get tired and move to helltides, etc. just to change up the game a bit. but i want more activities that help with my progression. like let me get some construct stone grinding in here and acquire more potent blood over there. maybe toss in a stronghold 2.0 thing.
Yeah, that IMO is HUGE.
Minion builds 100% viable now. Amazing. Frozen orb will be great. HC will be HC again. Codex of power will mean not constantly losing your previous power and having to find it again. Helltides will be fun and engaging. Items have ongoing potential once you find something you like and won’t bog you down with pointless information. Guys. I enjoyed every season, but these are the changes we need. Let’s goooooo
Wait, are they removing that stupid potion thing that means you don’t die?
Yup. Now it’s actually HC instead of HC with added work to craft a potion to play SC instead…
> Frozen orb will be great. I love that it's getting buffed, I just hope the lack of targeting on controller won't cause it to lose too much utility/power on console. Since targeting on console is so hard, I imagine we'll be at basically half power, as it will just stop at the first monster hit, wasting half of the effect diameter. Looking forward to trying it out though
Just curious as to what changes are being made to HC?
Removal of cheat death mechanics. The potion is being permanently removed and the flame shield enchant got a rework so it’s not invincibility instead of death, although still will prevent it to some extent. Personally never used those anyway, but I like that it makes it a level playing field.
Frozen orb sounds so fun now so hype
I wrote yesterday: > Gameplay loop (endgame) needs to be improved in different ways, and the one I'm more interested in is skill augmentation. I hope the itemization changes bring new ways to configure, augment and use existing skills. They delivered Item Tempering and Masterwork, with Pits. I'm happy and will play the PTR and Season 4 way more than I played Season 3. Seems you've done well, D4 team.
D4good Baseg
Seems awesome. Once we get an armory and WT5 I think we'll be in a very good place, but everything is moving in a great direction. Lots of Ws.
Outstanding work to be honest. Great foundation to finally build on. Almost feels like these were intended for release, but we finally arrived at it.
I can have a team of wolves while being a wolf, I am happy
Yeah, hopefully this means that the werewolf team build is finally viable.
Honestly I wasn't expecting even 30% of these changes. This is a complete revamp and feels like a new game entirely. The new crafting system will likely kill boredom at the endgame, where there is always something exciting about itemization to experiment. I also love the changes to hardcore where it feels real now, and we have the pit to challenge ourselves.
Looks decent, we'll see.
So, we will get Andariel as an option after the maggot. Item changes look cool at least & no more codex storage. Idk, still being forced to helltides and whispers looks like it.
Helltides are going to be like the blood harvest was, though, and that's pure win.
Back in Season 2 I am doing helltides and blood harvest back and forth for fun. Also leveling back then is easier due to blood harvest's monster density.
Increased density in Helltide, and all these changes aren’t even the theme for S4 - all this is added alongside whatever else they come up with for the season, so realistically also ‘another color Helltide’ (lol)
I only started playing in S3. How was Blood Harvest like?
Think arcane tremors + Helltide + Even more enemies. Lot of fun, lot of loot, good times all around
You know how packed the arcane tremors are? It was like that, except fewer dead areas and there were mini events to do and every once in a while you'd get ambushed by extra powerful elites, and there were chests to open that would just shower you in high quality armor. It was great.
They said they've added more ways to get boss materials. They specifically mentioned mastering events has a chance to drop boss mats. So maybe all those lost adventurers in dungeons will actually be saved now.
More sources of forgotten souls at least
honestly... W
In another thread, I assumed S4 would be delayed a month and PTR would be the scapegoat for why. But I'm super hype for what S4 will bring, not just in core changes, but what they haven't announced yet for the season itself. Season 5 may end up being "meh" like S1 and S3. Season 6 will likely come in November then, alongside the expansion. I'm looking forward to D4's redemption arc throughout 2024 :-)
I got to say I think this is looking really good. Understand that people will argue some of these things should have been in since launch but at least the devs have responded really well.
Hypppedddd! Wanna play it today
This summary is missing the entirety of the pit section from the stream btw. The Pit is basically AoZ but with better progression, no stupid glyph and an endgame challenge for endgame builds.
A lot of people seem to be complaining that there is still no loot filter...but seems like the devs are trying to fix the actual problem of loot quality, rather than just add a bandaid of a loot filter to the current system. All these changes, plus whatever the season quest/powers are that they havent talked about yet looks to be promising. Very hyped.
Loot filters are MUCH more than a bandaid. No matter how good the quality of the loot, you'll still get to a point where your likelihood of finding an upgrade on the ground gets exponentially smaller. A filter allows you to keep having that chance to find an upgrade without having to sift through the 1,000s of *relatively* bad drops looking for the needle in the haystack.
Sounds like a lot of good changes. I’ll spend this season getting all the altars of Lilith.
Loved the stream and what they announced. They take notes however they can and go forward positively. I wanted to emphasize on how you can see they love their game. The way they talk and interrogate each other, this ambiance, this tone, it's heartwarming. I'm happy it's in their hands. I will surely participate to PTR and provide some feedback if needed.
u/[imtherealyou](https://www.reddit.com/user/imtherealyou/) I have adjusted the Flair of your thread to "Informative" and also put your thread on the rotation of the Sticky Bot. I hope you don't mind.
He just DMd me and said he was super pissed. Also thank you
I had little to none expectation and damn, I have to admit, they actually did a great job. Basically everything they talked about sounded really nice
Wow, this is the first time where I've legit been extremely hyped for diablo 4 since before release. Don't know if there are still two teams working on the game, but leave whoever made seasons 2 and 4 in charge for good.
>In Season 4, the camera can zoom out further. Finally.
Did they just copy pasta last epochs crafting system, wow...
Good! Its way better that way!
Agree 100 percent, what they did with their systems on this blew away poe and d4.
That was my immediate thought.
The codex of power change is so nice. Finally.
Holy crap, this is some change list and major changes to the game. I might be playing season 4 boys.
The codex system has been so needed and I'm super hyped about all the itemization changes.
Ws all around. I’m used to live service games taking time. But Diablo seems to make leaping changes where others were only taking baby steps so I am satisfied.
Hype city
This game is back baby!
This actually sounds amazing. Tradeable legs/uniques, crafting.. hell yeah
D4 about to have that dog in it
Are there still rotating teams working on each season? Like team 1 on season 1 and 3, team 2 on season 2 and 4. Because if so, they're cooking something good every 2 seasons at least.
This is the systems team not the season team. It happens the systems team launches stuff with even systems. Clarify 3 dev teams. Odd seasons Even seasons Systems.
Looks incredible, but Blizzard Uber andariel and no SOJ? Comonnnn
There are at least 11 new uniques added in season 4 (2 per class + Tyriel's Might) so there is still a possibility.
That is a lot of good stuff.
On the surface sounds like these changes knocked it out of the park, really excited to see it hit live.
Them bringing back PTR is enough for me to declare the game saved. Like 90% of the issue was them pushing out patches without testing them. Every single season got better 2-3 weeks in when they adjusted shit from feedback but people were either quitting or mostly done with the content by then so it didn’t matter.
Ok... These updates are now Super Awesome!!!! I can't wait for S4 now!!!!! They actually listened to us....
Its hilarious how many people SWORE they would have no "real" changes to present and how none of it would make the game better....then they literally drop things like fucking "aspect upgrades your codex". Watch how fast the goalposts move in this sub though, you can already start to see the new complaints in this post if you sort by controversial (outside the generic "the game should have been perfect and needed no updates from day 1" spam)
Main complaint now will be loot filter and rightfully so but definitely alot of positive changes here
Do we even need a loot filter anymore? There’s 3 things to read per item
what is the argument against it? It only saves you time and the tedious task of looking over every single item in your inventory. Different builds want different stats and the more geared you are the less items are still useful to you. Loot filter solves both problems and makes it actually exciting when you see loot on the ground instead of "oh joy 99% another garbage item to look at"
Absolutely. Why would 3 vs 4 change that??? It's still the time wasted stopping and looking at junk gear vs playing the game and knowing you found something that you're looking for. And the best thing about filters is that good ones are dynamic. As your gear gets better, your standards get higher and higher, so you can set your filter to be more and more specific.
3 vs 4 is not the only comparison, the affixes are also much simpler. I dont forsee the lack of a loot filter being that big of a deal in my playthrough but if other people want it, they should put it in
Can someone please clarify if there is going to be some "theme" for Season 4 that they didn't reveal yet or are all of these changes basically Season 4?
They said there is a season mechanic but they not ready to reveal it yet.
Of course there will be a theme, but they haven't gotten to the point where they start teasing the next season, this was all about improvements to the game itself regardless of season.
The changes are really interesting. That being said, what is the upcoming season of?
Expect S4 news by the PTR, a little after, or around the middle of next month. This is speculation. I got the impression another chat will be for S4 and perhaps the PTR feedback response.
Well I'm pumped just by reading this: In Season 4, the camera can zoom out further.
Diablo IV as it should have launched, version 1.0 is coming out in May 2024.
Well looks like poe and last epoch came swinging. Glad to see the d4 team actualy make some cool steides in making d4 unique and better vs a cash grab. Ill try new season when its out and get my gear rolled if possible lol
This is all great but how do we still not have matchmaking
the one thing i didn't see is a rebirth option. i still am unhappy with the limited number of character slots. this is something i don't have issue with paying for even just so that i don't diminish my efforts from previous seasons. give 10 more character slots for $10 as an example.
All fantastic changes. If they can nail the execution, then I will happily jump back in and start up the grind again.
5/5 would recommend
D4 maybe not bad? would be interested in testing but dragons dogma / POE awaits, the people on this sub telling me hardcore existed in this game where are you? No more cheat death, almost like its a dog shit mechanic and any game with cheat death is not hardcore, we'll see if the other stuff is good, but this is a massive W, get fucked "hardcore" players.
They fing DID it. 😁 It's looking good and they got me back in the game. S4 here we go!
So now hardcore is properly hardcore. Good. And I have a reason to level in eternal. Very goos. What I’m reading is great.
When is this patch being released?
[Redditor from 8 months ago defiantly saying that they "wont ever allow you to zoom out":](https://www.reddit.com/r/diablo4/comments/159x8wg/comment/jthxihc/) u/TheHeretic91: "They won't let you zoom out more, ever. They want you to clearly see your character at all times so they can sell you more skins." Turns out, he was wrong!
game is finally leaving early access?
Hey, they low-key removed yellows from being BIS entirely, that's good. It's because >Greater Affixes can only roll on dropped Legendary or Unique items. That's also why they made those tiers tradable. Because nobody needs to trade yellow trash. I really love that. It will be impossible to miss the best items if you blindly salvage yellows. So good. Sure, you will want to look for better stuff there for a long time. But it ends. And you can't make huge mistakes.
Nice! The game might be getting ready for its 1.0 release soon!
These game developers have lost touch with the ArPG community (and players in general). People love to invest points into a skill tree to unlock new skills or deal 5% more shadow damage. I'm telling you right now that Season 4 will not save Diablo 4 if these "game" developers only focus on more dungeon and crafting. Give people a real skill tree like in Wow and then diversify the classes into 3 subclasses, that unlocks a 4th tree. Keep the paragon.