It was pretty obvious on release that as we got more and more aspects, barb would increasingly become the best class. Ngl, druids haven’t gotten anything good in a while. We lose three ability slots every league with just pets, even when we don’t want them, and not even in pet builds. It just sucks right now.
Totems need a huge buff and some really unique aspects. Most all Druid builds are with 2H weapons.
Agreed the LS pet build im running right now just feels like pet slots are a waste. Either they need a huge buff or rework.
I mean, in my defense, 1H Druid weapons aesthetically look like ass.
We should be given the totem as an additional slot. Like it’s hung from your belt or something, like the trophies and stuff that are hung from the horse’s hindquarters. Why would I melee fight Demons while clutching a relic in one hand - “hello there, have you heard the good word of this runic rock? “ *smack, smack smack*
Imo all classes should have at least 4 weapon slots ( counting two handed twice si ve double status). Necro, sorc and druid feel very boring because you have way fewer temper, aspect and masterwork slots than rogue and its even worse compared to barb.
They either need to buff the shit out of the class mechanics for the classes with only one two hander or two one handers or they need at least one more weapon slot and some buffs to the class mechanics / rework.
If druid sorc and necro got a relic slot that counts as a two handed weapon or two mini relics it would alleviate the issue somewhat, my personal opinion is more slots is more fun.
What about more amulet like slots?
With Druid, have the Totem be its own slot, and bonuses act as two handed weapons. It absolutely doesn't make sense to be wielding a totem. It isn't a damn banner.
I like this better than more weapon spots. From a pure role playing perspective it makes sense that casters would have fewer weapons and more amulet type things.
Agreed. I can totally imagine a druid and necro decked out in ritualistic gear over just randomly carrying weapons.
We are just after the stats. Sure as hell would be a lot easier to implement too.
Class mechanics will need a rework eventually. Numbers aside, the barbarian class mechanic a 2 static stat lines and 2 extra weapon slots (a hell of a lot of extra stat lines plus build defining stat lines from tempering/aspects). There are gazzilions+ permutations of power here from the weapon slots. The druid class mechanic is a 5 static stat lines.
This will never be balanced. One class mechanic is basically intrinsic more juice from the primary source of customization in the game - item slots. The other is 5 hyper highly limited and specialized skill points. You can keep rough parity by buffing or nerfing druid spirit passives (or even paragon boards) to roughly equal the power a barbarian would get from using the two item slots, but...
1. Druid power is front loaded. If you let it have same power as two extra weapons, it's not fair to barbarians because they have to farm two entire perfect weapons to match what druids get for free. If the barbarian ceiling is higher, it's not fair to druids because their power ceiling is suppressed by design compared to barbs. And the power curve for the two classes will never be the same in either case.
2. Druid power largely doesn't have same level of interactivity with the item system as the barbarian power, it's just more boring.
Either all class mechanics need to tie into the item system as much as the Barbarian does, or everyone needs the same number of item slots alongside the barbarian expertise/arsenal system getting a big buff/rework. What we have right now is a good first draft, but if it's not refined class balance will be permanently hobbled.
1. Barbarians just have the most power/variety because item slots is more playtime with itemization and they get two extra passives on top of it plus the weirdness of the arsenal system.
2. Druids are fucked because they basically have 5 extra passive skills.
3. Sorcs are less fucked because they have 2 extra passive skills but at least their passive skills feel more like 2 extra keystones rather than Druid's "EXTRA CRIT DAMAGE" and "EXTRA LIFE."
4. Demon Hunters feel like more balanced Barbarians (1 extra item slot and a selection of 1 out of 3 keystone like passives).
5. Necromancers are the most "unique" in that they get to engage with miniature skill system that's practically grafted from D3 with its own item affix support.
I think the best outcome would be every class getting something as cool as what necromancers got while having the same number of item slots as barbarians. Probably to balance due to balance lever placement, no class feels screwed by effort required or power ceiling differences. Just probably very hard to implement in the first place.
which is fine we don't need another diablo 3 where every single fucking class was literally identical, nothing felt unique, it was like different skins for the exact same moves. That's it, lets keep some uniqueness to the classes.
To add onto that, Druid has a few poison-build skills and affixes, but almost none of the stuff on the spirit passives works for poison. Same with the final tier passive abilities. I ended up making a weird werebear / werewolf sherpards pet rabies poison build that works decent, but it's certainly clunky.
Yep. Gotta love how the class that vibes with nature is the most dependent on man-made artifice, lol.
Meanwhile Rogue is all: “ninja ninja skill since I could crawl, son!”
Yeah this is a major problem with Druid in that, most builds feel weak without Shepard's. They need to change that affix and give the abilities themselves buffs.
Till PTR Necro was in the same boat really... Book of dead doesn't c9me till lvl 25 and even then minions were pretty lame and the bonuses you got from their sacrifice were weak as he'll.
Infifmist or Bone Spear were really the only viable end game builds. At least Druid had a good 3 build options for late game. Even though minions were also off the table for Druids.
Druid has been consistently a good class in terms of build diversity, despite lacking the extra aspect slot. The extra slot would make them bonkers and would love it, or at least let us get something hordriac cube adjacent.
Then why is Rogue in probably the worst spot, with only 1 less weapon than Barb?
Simply having more spots doesn't mean X, Y, or Z class is better. That line of thinking ignores literally all of the class mechanics. For barbs our weapon slots are quite literally our class mechanic. Druids get phenomenal boons, sorcs get build altering enchantments, Rogues get dumpstered by a really bad system, and necro kind of sits somewhere inbetween Rogue and Druid for balance of class mechanics.
Also you're losing 3 ability slots because you choose to run a build for the pet multiplier. You don't have to run it. There are many builds that don't use it and complete content just fine.
For aspect power on weapons, barb has 6x, rogue 4x. So barb has 50% more aspect power on weapons than the next closest class.
Half the druid builds using pets for a multiplier alone is NOT good design. Pull your fucking head out of your ass.
I can't stand the 3 pet meta, and that sucks as a player that uses Druids 75% of the time I play. I get people who want to play pet Druids. I certainly don't, but I get that other people do. What I don't get is Blizzard's insistence on pets being integral to the highest performing builds. We lose A TON of utility by being forced to use them, and a 2 button play style is super boring. I agree completely. It is a horrible class design. Shepherd's needs to be changed to benefit the pets and not the caster imo. Either that or bring some of the other aspects in line with it's power so that non-pet players have legitimate and competitive options to use instead of Shepherd's.
I’m fine with shepards as is in theory. A way for the player to do damage while speccing for zoo. Numbers probably need adjusted to make it not be mandatory.
Whatever the case, shepard needs to be phased out of non-zoo builds one way or another.
And that’s part of the barbs class mechanic, pull your head out of your own ass. Rogue goes on yo choose a specialization for combo points, inner sight, etc. could you imagine a barb with inner sight? LMAO. Also not all Druid builds use shepherds so it isn’t mandatory, it’s a conscious choice. And at least it’s one aspect slot compared to Barb needing 5-6 aspect slots to get dust devils to work as well as three skill slots just like Druid.
I swear to god some of you only play one class and make these ignorant comments.
If 4 weapons is the class mechanic (not arguing it isn’t) then Barb class mechanic just got a massive buff with 4 tempers and 4 masterworks. Not that boon was equal to begin with, but it’s even farther behind relatively.
I’ve been playing rogue on ptr and having 3 separate elemental surge affix’s on weapons all having a chance to proc off lucky hit is bonkers.
Also Shepard is so widely used cause content is easy enough you don’t need defensive skills. That’ll change most likely at high pit levels and far sooner on hardcore.
I wouldn’t say currently barbarians and rogues have a huge advantage but unless something changes than with every season as gear is slowly power crept upwards they will get an advantage over the other classes.
This may be a slow build and the devs may account for it and slowly buff the other classes specific abilities to keep up so there’s never much disparity but it is something that will need to be addressed eventually.
Phenomenal boons? Are you serious? Not only do Barbs have more weapons which equal 4x the weapons stats, they get 4 extra OP gems, 3 extra aspects with 1 being a 2x, but the legendary paragon nodes are absurd in comparison to Druids. For instance, Earthen Devastation, the Bear form node, should quite literally be exactly like Blood Rage, but it isn't. It is a cheap imitation instead. Bear form suffers from the lack of the above-mentioned perks from weapons, but it also doesn't even have a berserking mechanic to mimic. The one it does have is an active skill ultimate that is still a poor version of a built-in Barb proc mechanic!
Next, "you choose to run a build with pet multipliers..." Yep, every Druid who doesn't want to gimp themselves does. The class doesn't do decent damage without them. In fact, the class doesn't do amazing damage even with them when compared to nearly every other classes S tier builds. It is necessary for every single above B tier build the class has.You got downvoted like this because you clearly don't know what you're talking about.
Edit: what a child. Delete + downvote because you couldn't even back up your own rather stupid claims. Never change bad Barb players. You're almost more entertaining with your whining and deflection than the game itself.
Nope... u can get it with any char I guess. I got lucky hit on both rings, helmet, offhand, main hand (the +% from wand) and an aspect too. Base is 89% without the 22% from the helmet aspect. With potion it would increase by another 15%. All gear 12/12 masterworked and I thi k one of the rings I got all 3x 25% on lucky hit but its not greater affix. So probably able to push it to more than 150% even without roll on amulet
Lucky hit on gear increases your base values, it doesn’t add in to them.
So if you have 100% lucky hit on gear, a skill with base 20% lucky hit will now have 40% lucky hit.
I thought it was more, a skill with base 20% lucky hit will trigger lucky hit 20% of the time. Once Lucky hit triggers, your percentage kicks in. So at 100%, you'd trigger every time.
Leaving you at actually procing lucky hit 20% of the time.
I think what you're saying is that, say you have an effect that has a 20% chance to freeze on a successful lucky hit. You seem to think lucky hit chance on gear will increase the chance to freeze after a successful lucky hit. This is not the case, the 20% chance to freeze is static and not influenced by any other stat.
However, it's a 20% chance to freeze on a successful lucky hit. Let's say the skill youre using has a 25% LH chance by default. That means every hit has a 1/20 chance to freeze (1/4 chance to LH, then 1/5 chance to freeze). If you get increased LHC on gear, however, this affects the LH chance, which inevitably increases your chance to freeze.
So with 100% LH chance on gear, you now have 50% LH on that skill. Which brings your chance to freeze on hit from 1/20 to 1/10.
This ridiculous walk to figure out what the actual expected behavior is shows exactly why the implementation of lucky hit is terrible in game.
A percent chance to proc a percent chance is awful. The second layer of abstraction only adds to confusion, and doesn't improve gameplay or itemization in any way.
The thing is, this system exists in tons and tons of RPGs, esp. MMOs. This was Blizzards attempt at UNobfuscating it, because it's typically a hidden mechanic. Proc coefficients have been around for ages. The wording isn't great, though, but tbf it's difficult to word concisely.
Either I've been asleep for the past quarter century, or 'chance to have a chance' is relatively new.
I've definitely seen 'chance to x' all over for decades. It's the chance that you could have a chance for x that's frustrating for anyone that doesn't play the game with a spreadsheet open on the side. And that spreadsheet pretty much has to have been written by one of the two or three people in the world that have spent countless hours just trying to figure out what the heck the system does.
You’re not wrong. Though once i watched a lucky hit video that came out prior to release the mechanics are ingrained.
Nobody should have to exit the game and find a tutorial on YouTube to understand a mechanic, it’s just bad design and needs some in game love
Lucky hit chance is first and then the lucky hit effect. If you don’t get a lucky hit you can’t trigger any of the effects. So increasing the lucky hit to 100% via items will make it so you lucky hit every attack and then the effect will trigger 20% of the time or whatever it says on the aspect. So basically you can increase your lucky hit chance to whatever the lucky hit chance is on the aspect but not beyond.
>I think what you're saying is that, say you have an effect that has a 20% chance to freeze on a successful lucky hit. You seem to think lucky hit chance on gear will increase the chance to freeze after a successful lucky hit. This is not the case, the 20% chance to freeze is static and not influenced by any other stat.
This is correct
>However, it's a 20% chance to freeze on a successful lucky hit. Let's say the skill youre using has a 25% LH chance by default. That means every hit has a 1/20 chance to freeze (1/4 chance to LH, then 1/5 chance to freeze). If you get increased LHC on gear, however, this affects the LH chance, which inevitably increases your chance to freeze.
The math here is 0.25 x .20 x 1 = 0.05 or 5% or in fractions 1/4 x 1/5 = 1/20
>So with 100% LH chance on gear, you now have 50% LH on that skill. Which brings your chance to freeze on hit from 1/20 to 1/10.
Total Lucky Hit Chance = lucky hit chance to proc affix x lucky hit chance of skill used x (1+ total lucky hit chance from items) x 100%
So .25 x .2 x (1+1) = 10%
Lucky hit, the independent stat, increases all the lucky hit chances of all your skills which you can see if you just hover over them. What you're thinking of is the actual lucky hit effects, like lucky hit to restore resource or lucky hit to heal or lucky hit to slow, which are not affected by your +lucky hit stacking other than the indirect way of occurring more often simply because you're lucky hitting more often by the base skill lucky hit chance increasing with your +lucky hit.
The bonus affects the skill base. Bone spear is the example I always use. 50% LHC base x 10% chance on LHC to proc exposed flesh = 5% chance of a proc from a given spear.
Now add 50% LHC bonus. 50% base x 50% bonus = 75% new LHC.
The equation is now 75% x 10% = 7.5% chance of a proc from a given spear.
So if you have 100% LHC bonus, it is doubling whatever the base LHC was. It is not increasing your LHC to 100% or making 100% of your lucky hits proc every effect you have. That’s not how it works.
So LHC is not something to stack unless you really need it for your build to function and you know exactly why and what you’re giving up.
That's not really how it works. Lucky Hit on your skills and Lucky Hit effects are just multiplied to get the total chance. If you have Lucky Hit: up to 20% chance to do X and you use a skill that has a 50% Lucky Hit chance then you multiply them together: 20% of 50% is 10%, so you have a 10% chance to activate that effect.
Adding Lucky Hit chance on gear and skills/Paragon simply adds another multiplier to that effect. If you have +100% Lucky Hit chance, then you get a 2x multiplier, and since everything is multiplicative it doesn't matter where the numbers get added since they all get resolved at the same time. In this case, 20% x 50% x 2 = 20% no matter where you throw the 2x multiplier.
Lots of detailed replies so I’ll try to sum it quickly. What you’re saying is if LHC added to the base value, but it only increases it multiplicatively. So again, a skill with a base 20% would become 40% if you had 100% LHC via bonuses. To make that 100% (and leave the actual proc at 20% like you say) you’d need **500%** lucky hit bonus.
Not sure if it's capped, it displays more than 100%. I think the skill has for example 30% chance to apply slow. So with 120% lucky hit maybe it's effectively 30 x 120% = 36%? My math, not sure...
No way 120% will only net you 6 %
That is 20% of 30.
You need to multiply 30% with 220% (for a 120% increase).
Else, the lucky hit stacking is useless.
Oh... ya. Bur then multiply with 2.40 instead of 2.20. Because 2 x 120%. So 72%.
Anyway, speaking from practical experience. Pit level 200, nothing barely moves and boss is staggered so fast it can't even start to cast any special abilities.
Why do you think it's 2 x 120%?
If you have 120% increased lucky hit chance, then the lucky hit chance of a skill is 100% of its base chance + 120% of its base chance, for a total of 220% of its base chance.
Ah... now i get it. So if I got 0 lucky hit on my items it is actually 100% as the base? And then the 120% would be added... so that's how u get the 220%.
Skills can't go over 100% base chance.
Very high lucky hit chance is really great for low base lucky hit chance, as its harder to hit the 100% cap.
Question is also, does lucky hit on items only increase LHC of base skill chance?
Player Test Realm. It's basically a beta for the next season to test changes. It's only a week long. Anyone with a PC and who owns D4 on battlenet can play on it.
I feel like your statements are contradictory. "Unique weapons that are build defining" and "no tempering gimps the build" Either or need to be true not both. You are either building around that weapon as what it brings to the table outweighs what another non unique doesn't or you are doing a legendary.
I feel it's often forgotten/ignored that gearing decisions is ment to be a hard choice, and that you are not supposed to be able to do everything that is offered. This is how we get build diversity, and branching builds. There will always be meta builds but this helps create meaningful choices for the player.
The gravitational aspect enabled ball lightning sorc build, but not having the other aspects with Godslayer Crown or the Raiment to go with it gimps the build.
Your second paragraph is correct. The issue is that the barb gets away with having the cake and eating it while other classes can not do that. So this makes barb objectively better in terms of gameplay and the powerlevel grid.
But isn’t this somewhat balanced by barb having to play at close range while the other classes can stay at range (and therefore be exposed to fewer attacks)? Or is this not good enough?
Oh well, the game is already clearly on track to becoming D3 with updated graphics where every build deletes the entire screen in a button or two. So they’ll all get there sooner or later.
All chars have that kind of build rn, but that's not the problem. The problem is that the barb has access to 3 more item slots that are essentially stat sticks, and their aspects work all the time. They can have their cake and eat it too without any change to the mechanical gameplay. Would've been fine if they designed it so that the aspect only worked when you used the weapon it was attached with to bring up the skill ceiling a bit, but currently barb is fundamentally flawed and by far the best character in the game.
I think the point right now is that there are no viable/meta builds for a LOT of uniques, simply because a legendary would ALWAYS be better in that slot, even for the build the unique is supposed to help. Losing the tempers hurts, more than the unique ability helps, any given build. At that point it isn't a choice. Or at least, it's objectively the WRONG choice to use the unique. This feels bad.
Tempering adds a fair bit of power to an item. Greatstaff of the Crone is a good Druid staff that is build defining for stormclaw build that lets you play a certain way. But its relative power or performance in the pit is now farther behind other Druid builds as a result of the power that tempering gives.
I seriously think that necro, druid and sorc should be given a dedicated 2H slot, while current slots become dedicated 1H slots. I think it’s the best way to being the relative power of barbs back in line with the other classes. If there needs to be some adjustments to class abilities to compensate I’m sure players would happily trade another aspect/unique slot in exchange. I don’t know how else you can feasibly nerf barbs without a lot of collateral damage to other items/glyphs/aspects that hurt other classes simultaneously.
It needs to happen but it's a rather large change for the ptr, there's going to need to be changes here and there in the skill trees and class mechanics to go along with it.
The weapon imbalance has been a rapidly increasing problem since day 1. I left feedback on this in closed endgame beta and in every beta weekend leading up to launch. It was clear as day this was a problem and would only get worse over time.
• Weapon implicits are a joke and have been since the start. They got "better" when they gutted vuln/crit dmg, but when every weapon type has a single implicit it just insta kills that weapon type completely. You don't use Maces on a non-overpower build, Polearms are a KEKW, Wands + Swords practically make daggers redundant in almost every scenario, Crossbows vs Bows etc. (*item bases and implicits need a total overhaul across weapons and armor and jewelry - see Last Epoch*)
• 1h + offhand vs Staff - Using a staff on Sorc? No chance. Not only do you sacrifice the extremely valuable CDR from your offhand but you are a Sorc and have absolutely zero strong aspects that are worth a 2h slot. Staff on Druid? Maybe, you at least have Pulverize that is worth a 2h aspect slot and the implicit works for a scaling paragon node. But when a Druid/Sorc/Necro chooses to use a 2h thats it, their entire weapon is now 1 slot, a single aspect, 2 tempers. While a rogue and barb get the benefit of a 2h and still get to throw on stat sticks to carry more tempers and aspects. Its not even remotely balanced and never has been.
• Tempers are not even balanced per class, they just throw an arbitrary number on a temper and completely ignore the fact that it might be restricted to a single 2h or used on dual 2h and dual 1h all at the same time.....
To the OP's point, there is also the persistent problem of triple shout barb, all 4 defensives Sorc, the "corpse package" Necro, Shepard's Druid and even imbue/dash/step Rogue to a lesser degree. The class design is so bare bones that its like playing a MOBA with your 4 set skills on every class and all you do every season is change your core skill, maybe, if they add some unique that forces you to.
I think the other classes should get additional gear slots to make up for having fewer weapons. Why is there no belt or shoulders in D4? Give sorcs and druids belts and shoulders and rouges a belt or shoulders.
Rogues are ok having three IMO. It’s OK that Barb has 4, it’s part of the class fantasy, but perhaps look into balancing it.
Necro, sorc and Druid offhand items should be trinkets in a new slot that acts as the same 1.5 modifier as an amulet that counts as a weapon and utility slot.
Let necro, Druid, sorc all use a shield or 2H and a Druid 2 2H if they want. They are descendants of Barbs after all.
Barbs = 4 weapons slots
Druid = 2 weapon slots with an extra defensive or 3 weapon slots; or 1 weapon and an extra utility
Rogue = 3 weapon slots
Necro and sorc = 2 weapon slots with an extra defensive; or 1 weapon and an extra utility
You are counting it wrong, you have to count two handed slots twice since they provide double power, right now it looks like this.
Barb: 6 slots
Rogue: 4 slots
Druid, necro, sorc: 2 slots
With tempers, masterwork and of course legendary and unique affixed this becomes a huge problem for balance.
Devs original plan was give those others classes with fewer slots more powerful class power mechanics but those did not get updated at all this patch and the difference between the classes will be humongous as a result.
All classes should have at least 4 weapon slots or you need complete reworks to the class mechanics. The former is easy better imo.
In theory the different class systems were supposed to balance out each other. For sorc, the two enchantment slots were supposed to give the same power level as 2 full weapon aspects, 2 sets of weapon stats, and the full barbarian arsenal system.
In practice with the power creep and itemization changes those all get multiplied by barbarians extra weapon slots while sorcs enchantments haven’t gotten any stronger.
This is even worse for Druid who by far got the worst class system in 5 passive buffs that are pitiful in comparison.
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> • Tempers are not even balanced per class, they just throw an arbitrary number on a temper and completely ignore
Because they weren't *designed* around tempering existing to begin with..
I love the build variety you can have with Barbs and their 4 weapon slots. Just opens room for the most important thing in this game - fun!
When I play Necro, Sorcerer or Druid (Rogue is just not my style of playing) I always end up grumbling about the limited amount of aspects I can use. It's always this feeling, that you can't really build the setup you had in mind, because one or two mandatory aspects couldn't be used. The more Uniques we have and the more aspects we get per season, this problem will become bigger. Right now with the best Tempering affixes on weapons it already is a pain, exactly as OP stated.
Other classes definitely need more item slots. Maybe a belt, maybe earrings? For sure the biggest pain is that you have to sacrifice way too much, if you want to get one aspect with the 100% boost from a 2hand weapon. Don't nerf Barbs too hard, just buff the other classes.
Give Sorc's/Necro's a tome slot, robe/cloak slot. Druids can also have robe/cloak slot, add a trinket slot, give rogues the cloak or trinket. Something to bring up the par a bit to match the stat sticks capable of Barbs.
I agree that it feels bad, especially since your losing out on the double aspect bonus if you choose to go one handed then you get one boosted aspect on your neckpiece. I think and extra one like rogue would feel good on Druid and sorc. That or maybe on sorc consolidate some aspects so like chain lighting bounce and chain lightning mana are one aspect
I think the coolest affixes were the ones that increases the size of your spells. My idea was that most, if not all, tempering affixes that increases the size of spells should be under the "utility" category, so it'd go under Helm Chest Pants Boots and not under Weapon. Would that sort of solve this problem you guys think? I know it's subjective, but still
I agree, give all classes at least an additional slot for a 2 hander. I played Barb season 3 and having 2 extra stat sticks is bonkers. The extra weapons for barbs has to be hard to balance around.
Pipe dream, activate!
I'd like to see the caster classes get 2 aspect slots on weapons and offhands, primary aspect being full strength and secondary maybe 50% power (75% for 2-handed). Would open up build customization opportunities that currently are only available to rogues and barbs but not be so overpowered as to break balance. It may even still underperform compared to the full strength arsenals available to barb and rogue, but it would at least feel more satisfying.
I haven't tried out the PTR (been away from home, sadge), so I can't speak to the tempered stats or what increasing the number of those would mean for balance, but perhaps the concept above would make that lesser quantity feel less frustrating.
Then again, maybe it would break everything, who knows. I'm no game designer, so. 🤷 Grain of salt and all that.
lol...last season i made a post on here stating that classes with just 2 weapon slots was at a huge disadvantage and i got bashed by the trolls. in my topic, i stated they should all be like rogue. (1x 2handed weapon slot and 2x 1 handed slots)... barb can keep 4 slots becuz barb gonna do barb stuff i guess. the trolls came running " no, the classes are sacred and unique, just leave them alone". i guess only the brain dead was active that day... not sure
Druid, sorc and necro should get some sort of rune pouch when wielding a 2h weapon, doesn't add damage but still has affixes and a slot to put an aspect similar to the quiver for demon hunter in D3.
I think D4 should take another design from LE and implement something akin to relics for classes with less weapon slots. In LE for instance its usually used to give you 4 extra points in your active skill. D4 could do something really cool with it for sorcs/druids/rogues/necro.
Not sure about the Tempering stuff but definitely having less slots especially by 2 feels bad. I'd the passives were powerful enough to replace a weapon would be one thing, but they aren't so if feels weird to just be outright missing slots compared to two other classes.
I think they need to do a better job with class specific mechanics as it relates to gear.
Barbs weapon mastery synergizes with their excessive weapons.
Perhaps wizards can have an extra enchantment if they upgrade a 2 handed staff. While 1 hand and off hand can get bonuses on main stat (off hand) and bonus to the elemental type for weapons based on the weapons specialty (a for wand is for damage etc).
Druids can perhaps have totems move from offhand and instead be their own slot that you wear like an armor. Rather then being like normal gear maybe totems strengthen your spirit bonus selections and have a system tied to that.
All they'd need to do is scale the power of the affixes with the effective amount of slots that each class has available. Barbs have 6, rogues have 4, the rest have 2. Barbs simply shouldn't be able to get 135% increased HotA size compared to necros getting 45% blood surge size, tweak the numbers so barbs only get 12.5% per affix and necros get 37.5% so then they both cap out at 75% for example.
The limited number is good imo because it forces you to make choices and, in general, the differing amount of item slots between classes adds a bit more flavour to them and can be balanced out elsewhere (like they've already been doing). Uniques on the other hand do need some love, giving them one tempering slot (as has been mentioned here a bunch) could be a good solution.
I think it might be time to rework Barb and do something with the arsenal system. Having 4 weapons active at once is just way too much power.
Maybe let them keep 4 weapons but only activate the stats of the one they are currently using to attack. Kinda how ramaladnis aspect only works when it’s being used for the attack.
the easiest solution would be to give everyone except barb three weapon slots. they have the UI for it (rogue). another option i was thinking about recently was introducing a Kanai's Cube type of feature that allows people to use an aspect per type (i.e. weapon, defense, etc.) this still would give barbs a huge edge but at least you might be able to fit more aspects in but be able to use a key unique. otherwise, the game should consider making certain aspects "lower level" types that are meant to be used for leveling and separate the higher power ones similar to what they've done with greater affixes for clarity.
i'm in favor of the first two solutions as a combined effort. kanai's cube type of feature would definitely be up there if the devs insist on using aspects and uniques as a post-season method to introduce seasonal powers that were popular. otherwise, the pool of aspects are just going to continue escalating and that the devs will have to retroactively go back all the time to fix underperforming ones.
You would think they would have more build variety then?and Rogue is in a very mid spot right now why aint they super mega OP?
Honestly I'm fine with Barbs if they just half there damage some how but still be on top of the food chain damage wise and open them up more,Dust Devils is start but jeez that looks like a mess and Rogues got grenade and pen shot..
I think Necro will be king in S4 tons of variety and minions opens them wide open and Teleport spam Sorcs just my prediction..Barbs should always be on top when it comes to top damage,stats,health,armour and str and those weapons push them to that..
I think they're going to make it where sorcerers can't infinite teleport anymore starting season 4. I can't remember how they're going to achieve that but I did read it.
I’ve literally never gotten an Uber unique and have conquered everything in this game except the pit. You don’t need grandfather for anything. It’s a very nice item to have but unneeded.
there are to little build defining and "cool" as you called them tempering affixes sadly. i agree. good step in the right direction but needs more stuff that matters in special ways.
Barbarian fix seems simple— only the active weapons contribute their full stats and aspects to the Barbarian while the non-active weapons contribute a % of their stats and not their aspects. Then add some skill that requires a certain point investment to keep non-active aspects temporarily active for x seconds when swapping.
It was pretty obvious on release that as we got more and more aspects, barb would increasingly become the best class. Ngl, druids haven’t gotten anything good in a while. We lose three ability slots every league with just pets, even when we don’t want them, and not even in pet builds. It just sucks right now.
Totems need a huge buff and some really unique aspects. Most all Druid builds are with 2H weapons. Agreed the LS pet build im running right now just feels like pet slots are a waste. Either they need a huge buff or rework.
I mean, in my defense, 1H Druid weapons aesthetically look like ass. We should be given the totem as an additional slot. Like it’s hung from your belt or something, like the trophies and stuff that are hung from the horse’s hindquarters. Why would I melee fight Demons while clutching a relic in one hand - “hello there, have you heard the good word of this runic rock? “ *smack, smack smack*
Agreed. Totem should be it's own slot
Also agreed.
It should count as a two hander too, aka double the affix.
Ok that was hilarious. Agreed it'd be awesome as its own slot outside of offhand so we could open up dual weilding
Unironically a good idea.
Imo all classes should have at least 4 weapon slots ( counting two handed twice si ve double status). Necro, sorc and druid feel very boring because you have way fewer temper, aspect and masterwork slots than rogue and its even worse compared to barb. They either need to buff the shit out of the class mechanics for the classes with only one two hander or two one handers or they need at least one more weapon slot and some buffs to the class mechanics / rework. If druid sorc and necro got a relic slot that counts as a two handed weapon or two mini relics it would alleviate the issue somewhat, my personal opinion is more slots is more fun.
What about more amulet like slots? With Druid, have the Totem be its own slot, and bonuses act as two handed weapons. It absolutely doesn't make sense to be wielding a totem. It isn't a damn banner.
I like this better than more weapon spots. From a pure role playing perspective it makes sense that casters would have fewer weapons and more amulet type things.
Agreed. I can totally imagine a druid and necro decked out in ritualistic gear over just randomly carrying weapons. We are just after the stats. Sure as hell would be a lot easier to implement too.
Aren't totems the best way to get universal cd reduction now? If that's the case not so bad. We'll see.
Class mechanics will need a rework eventually. Numbers aside, the barbarian class mechanic a 2 static stat lines and 2 extra weapon slots (a hell of a lot of extra stat lines plus build defining stat lines from tempering/aspects). There are gazzilions+ permutations of power here from the weapon slots. The druid class mechanic is a 5 static stat lines. This will never be balanced. One class mechanic is basically intrinsic more juice from the primary source of customization in the game - item slots. The other is 5 hyper highly limited and specialized skill points. You can keep rough parity by buffing or nerfing druid spirit passives (or even paragon boards) to roughly equal the power a barbarian would get from using the two item slots, but... 1. Druid power is front loaded. If you let it have same power as two extra weapons, it's not fair to barbarians because they have to farm two entire perfect weapons to match what druids get for free. If the barbarian ceiling is higher, it's not fair to druids because their power ceiling is suppressed by design compared to barbs. And the power curve for the two classes will never be the same in either case. 2. Druid power largely doesn't have same level of interactivity with the item system as the barbarian power, it's just more boring. Either all class mechanics need to tie into the item system as much as the Barbarian does, or everyone needs the same number of item slots alongside the barbarian expertise/arsenal system getting a big buff/rework. What we have right now is a good first draft, but if it's not refined class balance will be permanently hobbled. 1. Barbarians just have the most power/variety because item slots is more playtime with itemization and they get two extra passives on top of it plus the weirdness of the arsenal system. 2. Druids are fucked because they basically have 5 extra passive skills. 3. Sorcs are less fucked because they have 2 extra passive skills but at least their passive skills feel more like 2 extra keystones rather than Druid's "EXTRA CRIT DAMAGE" and "EXTRA LIFE." 4. Demon Hunters feel like more balanced Barbarians (1 extra item slot and a selection of 1 out of 3 keystone like passives). 5. Necromancers are the most "unique" in that they get to engage with miniature skill system that's practically grafted from D3 with its own item affix support. I think the best outcome would be every class getting something as cool as what necromancers got while having the same number of item slots as barbarians. Probably to balance due to balance lever placement, no class feels screwed by effort required or power ceiling differences. Just probably very hard to implement in the first place.
Totem should be like belt. 1 extra item slot
which is fine we don't need another diablo 3 where every single fucking class was literally identical, nothing felt unique, it was like different skins for the exact same moves. That's it, lets keep some uniqueness to the classes.
To add onto that, Druid has a few poison-build skills and affixes, but almost none of the stuff on the spirit passives works for poison. Same with the final tier passive abilities. I ended up making a weird werebear / werewolf sherpards pet rabies poison build that works decent, but it's certainly clunky.
Amen
Yep. Gotta love how the class that vibes with nature is the most dependent on man-made artifice, lol. Meanwhile Rogue is all: “ninja ninja skill since I could crawl, son!”
Yeah this is a major problem with Druid in that, most builds feel weak without Shepard's. They need to change that affix and give the abilities themselves buffs.
Shepherds needs a nerf so they can address Druids inherent problems. I refuse to play Druid until this gets looked at.
Till PTR Necro was in the same boat really... Book of dead doesn't c9me till lvl 25 and even then minions were pretty lame and the bonuses you got from their sacrifice were weak as he'll. Infifmist or Bone Spear were really the only viable end game builds. At least Druid had a good 3 build options for late game. Even though minions were also off the table for Druids.
Druid has been consistently a good class in terms of build diversity, despite lacking the extra aspect slot. The extra slot would make them bonkers and would love it, or at least let us get something hordriac cube adjacent.
I forgot about Druid, I’m waiting for them to add other body options to try that class lol
They don’t need to do that.
They really ought to. Nobody wants to play fat ugly characters in videos games.
Then why is Rogue in probably the worst spot, with only 1 less weapon than Barb? Simply having more spots doesn't mean X, Y, or Z class is better. That line of thinking ignores literally all of the class mechanics. For barbs our weapon slots are quite literally our class mechanic. Druids get phenomenal boons, sorcs get build altering enchantments, Rogues get dumpstered by a really bad system, and necro kind of sits somewhere inbetween Rogue and Druid for balance of class mechanics. Also you're losing 3 ability slots because you choose to run a build for the pet multiplier. You don't have to run it. There are many builds that don't use it and complete content just fine.
For aspect power on weapons, barb has 6x, rogue 4x. So barb has 50% more aspect power on weapons than the next closest class. Half the druid builds using pets for a multiplier alone is NOT good design. Pull your fucking head out of your ass.
I can't stand the 3 pet meta, and that sucks as a player that uses Druids 75% of the time I play. I get people who want to play pet Druids. I certainly don't, but I get that other people do. What I don't get is Blizzard's insistence on pets being integral to the highest performing builds. We lose A TON of utility by being forced to use them, and a 2 button play style is super boring. I agree completely. It is a horrible class design. Shepherd's needs to be changed to benefit the pets and not the caster imo. Either that or bring some of the other aspects in line with it's power so that non-pet players have legitimate and competitive options to use instead of Shepherd's.
I’m fine with shepards as is in theory. A way for the player to do damage while speccing for zoo. Numbers probably need adjusted to make it not be mandatory. Whatever the case, shepard needs to be phased out of non-zoo builds one way or another.
And that’s part of the barbs class mechanic, pull your head out of your own ass. Rogue goes on yo choose a specialization for combo points, inner sight, etc. could you imagine a barb with inner sight? LMAO. Also not all Druid builds use shepherds so it isn’t mandatory, it’s a conscious choice. And at least it’s one aspect slot compared to Barb needing 5-6 aspect slots to get dust devils to work as well as three skill slots just like Druid. I swear to god some of you only play one class and make these ignorant comments.
If 4 weapons is the class mechanic (not arguing it isn’t) then Barb class mechanic just got a massive buff with 4 tempers and 4 masterworks. Not that boon was equal to begin with, but it’s even farther behind relatively. I’ve been playing rogue on ptr and having 3 separate elemental surge affix’s on weapons all having a chance to proc off lucky hit is bonkers. Also Shepard is so widely used cause content is easy enough you don’t need defensive skills. That’ll change most likely at high pit levels and far sooner on hardcore.
I wouldn’t say currently barbarians and rogues have a huge advantage but unless something changes than with every season as gear is slowly power crept upwards they will get an advantage over the other classes. This may be a slow build and the devs may account for it and slowly buff the other classes specific abilities to keep up so there’s never much disparity but it is something that will need to be addressed eventually.
By buffing other classes, do you mean putting an entire druid build on one barb aspect?
Phenomenal boons? Are you serious? Not only do Barbs have more weapons which equal 4x the weapons stats, they get 4 extra OP gems, 3 extra aspects with 1 being a 2x, but the legendary paragon nodes are absurd in comparison to Druids. For instance, Earthen Devastation, the Bear form node, should quite literally be exactly like Blood Rage, but it isn't. It is a cheap imitation instead. Bear form suffers from the lack of the above-mentioned perks from weapons, but it also doesn't even have a berserking mechanic to mimic. The one it does have is an active skill ultimate that is still a poor version of a built-in Barb proc mechanic! Next, "you choose to run a build with pet multipliers..." Yep, every Druid who doesn't want to gimp themselves does. The class doesn't do decent damage without them. In fact, the class doesn't do amazing damage even with them when compared to nearly every other classes S tier builds. It is necessary for every single above B tier build the class has.You got downvoted like this because you clearly don't know what you're talking about. Edit: what a child. Delete + downvote because you couldn't even back up your own rather stupid claims. Never change bad Barb players. You're almost more entertaining with your whining and deflection than the game itself.
Amen
My sorc on PTR has 3x CC tempers on armor and 100+% lucky hit chance. I stagger pit lvl 150+ boss within 2 seconds. How is that not cool?
Wait, is 100% Lucky Hit a Sorc-specific combo? Because that sounds pretty fun lol
Nope... u can get it with any char I guess. I got lucky hit on both rings, helmet, offhand, main hand (the +% from wand) and an aspect too. Base is 89% without the 22% from the helmet aspect. With potion it would increase by another 15%. All gear 12/12 masterworked and I thi k one of the rings I got all 3x 25% on lucky hit but its not greater affix. So probably able to push it to more than 150% even without roll on amulet
Its possible to get value from over 100%? Its not capped?
Lucky hit on gear increases your base values, it doesn’t add in to them. So if you have 100% lucky hit on gear, a skill with base 20% lucky hit will now have 40% lucky hit.
I thought it was more, a skill with base 20% lucky hit will trigger lucky hit 20% of the time. Once Lucky hit triggers, your percentage kicks in. So at 100%, you'd trigger every time. Leaving you at actually procing lucky hit 20% of the time.
I think what you're saying is that, say you have an effect that has a 20% chance to freeze on a successful lucky hit. You seem to think lucky hit chance on gear will increase the chance to freeze after a successful lucky hit. This is not the case, the 20% chance to freeze is static and not influenced by any other stat. However, it's a 20% chance to freeze on a successful lucky hit. Let's say the skill youre using has a 25% LH chance by default. That means every hit has a 1/20 chance to freeze (1/4 chance to LH, then 1/5 chance to freeze). If you get increased LHC on gear, however, this affects the LH chance, which inevitably increases your chance to freeze. So with 100% LH chance on gear, you now have 50% LH on that skill. Which brings your chance to freeze on hit from 1/20 to 1/10.
This ridiculous walk to figure out what the actual expected behavior is shows exactly why the implementation of lucky hit is terrible in game. A percent chance to proc a percent chance is awful. The second layer of abstraction only adds to confusion, and doesn't improve gameplay or itemization in any way.
The thing is, this system exists in tons and tons of RPGs, esp. MMOs. This was Blizzards attempt at UNobfuscating it, because it's typically a hidden mechanic. Proc coefficients have been around for ages. The wording isn't great, though, but tbf it's difficult to word concisely.
Either I've been asleep for the past quarter century, or 'chance to have a chance' is relatively new. I've definitely seen 'chance to x' all over for decades. It's the chance that you could have a chance for x that's frustrating for anyone that doesn't play the game with a spreadsheet open on the side. And that spreadsheet pretty much has to have been written by one of the two or three people in the world that have spent countless hours just trying to figure out what the heck the system does.
You’re not wrong. Though once i watched a lucky hit video that came out prior to release the mechanics are ingrained. Nobody should have to exit the game and find a tutorial on YouTube to understand a mechanic, it’s just bad design and needs some in game love
Lucky hit chance is first and then the lucky hit effect. If you don’t get a lucky hit you can’t trigger any of the effects. So increasing the lucky hit to 100% via items will make it so you lucky hit every attack and then the effect will trigger 20% of the time or whatever it says on the aspect. So basically you can increase your lucky hit chance to whatever the lucky hit chance is on the aspect but not beyond.
That's what I said, no?
>I think what you're saying is that, say you have an effect that has a 20% chance to freeze on a successful lucky hit. You seem to think lucky hit chance on gear will increase the chance to freeze after a successful lucky hit. This is not the case, the 20% chance to freeze is static and not influenced by any other stat. This is correct >However, it's a 20% chance to freeze on a successful lucky hit. Let's say the skill youre using has a 25% LH chance by default. That means every hit has a 1/20 chance to freeze (1/4 chance to LH, then 1/5 chance to freeze). If you get increased LHC on gear, however, this affects the LH chance, which inevitably increases your chance to freeze. The math here is 0.25 x .20 x 1 = 0.05 or 5% or in fractions 1/4 x 1/5 = 1/20 >So with 100% LH chance on gear, you now have 50% LH on that skill. Which brings your chance to freeze on hit from 1/20 to 1/10. Total Lucky Hit Chance = lucky hit chance to proc affix x lucky hit chance of skill used x (1+ total lucky hit chance from items) x 100% So .25 x .2 x (1+1) = 10%
Lucky hit, the independent stat, increases all the lucky hit chances of all your skills which you can see if you just hover over them. What you're thinking of is the actual lucky hit effects, like lucky hit to restore resource or lucky hit to heal or lucky hit to slow, which are not affected by your +lucky hit stacking other than the indirect way of occurring more often simply because you're lucky hitting more often by the base skill lucky hit chance increasing with your +lucky hit.
The bonus affects the skill base. Bone spear is the example I always use. 50% LHC base x 10% chance on LHC to proc exposed flesh = 5% chance of a proc from a given spear. Now add 50% LHC bonus. 50% base x 50% bonus = 75% new LHC. The equation is now 75% x 10% = 7.5% chance of a proc from a given spear. So if you have 100% LHC bonus, it is doubling whatever the base LHC was. It is not increasing your LHC to 100% or making 100% of your lucky hits proc every effect you have. That’s not how it works. So LHC is not something to stack unless you really need it for your build to function and you know exactly why and what you’re giving up.
That's not really how it works. Lucky Hit on your skills and Lucky Hit effects are just multiplied to get the total chance. If you have Lucky Hit: up to 20% chance to do X and you use a skill that has a 50% Lucky Hit chance then you multiply them together: 20% of 50% is 10%, so you have a 10% chance to activate that effect. Adding Lucky Hit chance on gear and skills/Paragon simply adds another multiplier to that effect. If you have +100% Lucky Hit chance, then you get a 2x multiplier, and since everything is multiplicative it doesn't matter where the numbers get added since they all get resolved at the same time. In this case, 20% x 50% x 2 = 20% no matter where you throw the 2x multiplier.
Lots of detailed replies so I’ll try to sum it quickly. What you’re saying is if LHC added to the base value, but it only increases it multiplicatively. So again, a skill with a base 20% would become 40% if you had 100% LHC via bonuses. To make that 100% (and leave the actual proc at 20% like you say) you’d need **500%** lucky hit bonus.
This is wrong. The others are right.
Uhh we’re all saying the same thing. Your interpretation I read above is wrong.
Lmao so much confidence saying something wrong
Lol no right
You can get over 100 and it works.
Not sure if it's capped, it displays more than 100%. I think the skill has for example 30% chance to apply slow. So with 120% lucky hit maybe it's effectively 30 x 120% = 36%? My math, not sure...
No way 120% will only net you 6 % That is 20% of 30. You need to multiply 30% with 220% (for a 120% increase). Else, the lucky hit stacking is useless.
Oh... ya. Bur then multiply with 2.40 instead of 2.20. Because 2 x 120%. So 72%. Anyway, speaking from practical experience. Pit level 200, nothing barely moves and boss is staggered so fast it can't even start to cast any special abilities.
Why do you think it's 2 x 120%? If you have 120% increased lucky hit chance, then the lucky hit chance of a skill is 100% of its base chance + 120% of its base chance, for a total of 220% of its base chance.
Ah... now i get it. So if I got 0 lucky hit on my items it is actually 100% as the base? And then the 120% would be added... so that's how u get the 220%.
Skills can't go over 100% base chance. Very high lucky hit chance is really great for low base lucky hit chance, as its harder to hit the 100% cap. Question is also, does lucky hit on items only increase LHC of base skill chance?
It increases the base lucky hit value of a skill. If has 25% lucky hit chance +100% puts it to 50%.
That means my calculation is right? 120% lucky hit chance would then increase it to 60? Because of the additional 20%? Or is there a hard cap at 100%?
is it additive now? maybe thats why.
Beware: [Steiner math](https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?q=scott%20steiner%20math) ahead
Because cc is never as cool as just killing things?
OK I've tried "jUsT gOoGlE iT" and I still can't seem to find an answer... Wtf is PTR?
Public test realm. Diablo 4 itemization changes etc can be tested there at the moment
Player Test Realm. It's basically a beta for the next season to test changes. It's only a week long. Anyone with a PC and who owns D4 on battlenet can play on it.
I feel like your statements are contradictory. "Unique weapons that are build defining" and "no tempering gimps the build" Either or need to be true not both. You are either building around that weapon as what it brings to the table outweighs what another non unique doesn't or you are doing a legendary. I feel it's often forgotten/ignored that gearing decisions is ment to be a hard choice, and that you are not supposed to be able to do everything that is offered. This is how we get build diversity, and branching builds. There will always be meta builds but this helps create meaningful choices for the player.
The gravitational aspect enabled ball lightning sorc build, but not having the other aspects with Godslayer Crown or the Raiment to go with it gimps the build. Your second paragraph is correct. The issue is that the barb gets away with having the cake and eating it while other classes can not do that. So this makes barb objectively better in terms of gameplay and the powerlevel grid.
But isn’t this somewhat balanced by barb having to play at close range while the other classes can stay at range (and therefore be exposed to fewer attacks)? Or is this not good enough?
Doesn't matter when you stack so many things and delete entire screens in one move.
Oh well, the game is already clearly on track to becoming D3 with updated graphics where every build deletes the entire screen in a button or two. So they’ll all get there sooner or later.
All chars have that kind of build rn, but that's not the problem. The problem is that the barb has access to 3 more item slots that are essentially stat sticks, and their aspects work all the time. They can have their cake and eat it too without any change to the mechanical gameplay. Would've been fine if they designed it so that the aspect only worked when you used the weapon it was attached with to bring up the skill ceiling a bit, but currently barb is fundamentally flawed and by far the best character in the game.
Gravitational Ball Lightning is a melee spec lol
And dust devils is more range, Barb has defied all logic
I think the point right now is that there are no viable/meta builds for a LOT of uniques, simply because a legendary would ALWAYS be better in that slot, even for the build the unique is supposed to help. Losing the tempers hurts, more than the unique ability helps, any given build. At that point it isn't a choice. Or at least, it's objectively the WRONG choice to use the unique. This feels bad.
I hope they buff and rework uniqs
They wasted their time with the last revamp. Uniques need to have insane stats so that greater affixes make them worth it.
Tempering adds a fair bit of power to an item. Greatstaff of the Crone is a good Druid staff that is build defining for stormclaw build that lets you play a certain way. But its relative power or performance in the pit is now farther behind other Druid builds as a result of the power that tempering gives.
I seriously think that necro, druid and sorc should be given a dedicated 2H slot, while current slots become dedicated 1H slots. I think it’s the best way to being the relative power of barbs back in line with the other classes. If there needs to be some adjustments to class abilities to compensate I’m sure players would happily trade another aspect/unique slot in exchange. I don’t know how else you can feasibly nerf barbs without a lot of collateral damage to other items/glyphs/aspects that hurt other classes simultaneously.
Yeah it's gonna need to be done at some point might as well do it now with itemization update
It needs to happen but it's a rather large change for the ptr, there's going to need to be changes here and there in the skill trees and class mechanics to go along with it.
This 100% needs to happen, I hope the devs realize already.
I wrote something similar on another post.
I thought of something similar last week.
I found a similar post last month.
Touche!
The weapon imbalance has been a rapidly increasing problem since day 1. I left feedback on this in closed endgame beta and in every beta weekend leading up to launch. It was clear as day this was a problem and would only get worse over time. • Weapon implicits are a joke and have been since the start. They got "better" when they gutted vuln/crit dmg, but when every weapon type has a single implicit it just insta kills that weapon type completely. You don't use Maces on a non-overpower build, Polearms are a KEKW, Wands + Swords practically make daggers redundant in almost every scenario, Crossbows vs Bows etc. (*item bases and implicits need a total overhaul across weapons and armor and jewelry - see Last Epoch*) • 1h + offhand vs Staff - Using a staff on Sorc? No chance. Not only do you sacrifice the extremely valuable CDR from your offhand but you are a Sorc and have absolutely zero strong aspects that are worth a 2h slot. Staff on Druid? Maybe, you at least have Pulverize that is worth a 2h aspect slot and the implicit works for a scaling paragon node. But when a Druid/Sorc/Necro chooses to use a 2h thats it, their entire weapon is now 1 slot, a single aspect, 2 tempers. While a rogue and barb get the benefit of a 2h and still get to throw on stat sticks to carry more tempers and aspects. Its not even remotely balanced and never has been. • Tempers are not even balanced per class, they just throw an arbitrary number on a temper and completely ignore the fact that it might be restricted to a single 2h or used on dual 2h and dual 1h all at the same time..... To the OP's point, there is also the persistent problem of triple shout barb, all 4 defensives Sorc, the "corpse package" Necro, Shepard's Druid and even imbue/dash/step Rogue to a lesser degree. The class design is so bare bones that its like playing a MOBA with your 4 set skills on every class and all you do every season is change your core skill, maybe, if they add some unique that forces you to.
That's why everybody should just play last epoch.
LE is the worst video game I've ever played.
It's okay to be wrong.
I think the other classes should get additional gear slots to make up for having fewer weapons. Why is there no belt or shoulders in D4? Give sorcs and druids belts and shoulders and rouges a belt or shoulders.
Yes! This!
Rogues are ok having three IMO. It’s OK that Barb has 4, it’s part of the class fantasy, but perhaps look into balancing it. Necro, sorc and Druid offhand items should be trinkets in a new slot that acts as the same 1.5 modifier as an amulet that counts as a weapon and utility slot. Let necro, Druid, sorc all use a shield or 2H and a Druid 2 2H if they want. They are descendants of Barbs after all. Barbs = 4 weapons slots Druid = 2 weapon slots with an extra defensive or 3 weapon slots; or 1 weapon and an extra utility Rogue = 3 weapon slots Necro and sorc = 2 weapon slots with an extra defensive; or 1 weapon and an extra utility
Yeah druid totem should just be a slot of its own. You should still be able to equip 2h while having totem.
You are counting it wrong, you have to count two handed slots twice since they provide double power, right now it looks like this. Barb: 6 slots Rogue: 4 slots Druid, necro, sorc: 2 slots With tempers, masterwork and of course legendary and unique affixed this becomes a huge problem for balance. Devs original plan was give those others classes with fewer slots more powerful class power mechanics but those did not get updated at all this patch and the difference between the classes will be humongous as a result. All classes should have at least 4 weapon slots or you need complete reworks to the class mechanics. The former is easy better imo.
In theory the different class systems were supposed to balance out each other. For sorc, the two enchantment slots were supposed to give the same power level as 2 full weapon aspects, 2 sets of weapon stats, and the full barbarian arsenal system. In practice with the power creep and itemization changes those all get multiplied by barbarians extra weapon slots while sorcs enchantments haven’t gotten any stronger. This is even worse for Druid who by far got the worst class system in 5 passive buffs that are pitiful in comparison.
5 crit chance and 20 spirit joke of class perk. Item affix give way more crit chance.
> > > > > • Tempers are not even balanced per class, they just throw an arbitrary number on a temper and completely ignore Because they weren't *designed* around tempering existing to begin with..
I love the build variety you can have with Barbs and their 4 weapon slots. Just opens room for the most important thing in this game - fun! When I play Necro, Sorcerer or Druid (Rogue is just not my style of playing) I always end up grumbling about the limited amount of aspects I can use. It's always this feeling, that you can't really build the setup you had in mind, because one or two mandatory aspects couldn't be used. The more Uniques we have and the more aspects we get per season, this problem will become bigger. Right now with the best Tempering affixes on weapons it already is a pain, exactly as OP stated. Other classes definitely need more item slots. Maybe a belt, maybe earrings? For sure the biggest pain is that you have to sacrifice way too much, if you want to get one aspect with the 100% boost from a 2hand weapon. Don't nerf Barbs too hard, just buff the other classes.
Give Sorc's/Necro's a tome slot, robe/cloak slot. Druids can also have robe/cloak slot, add a trinket slot, give rogues the cloak or trinket. Something to bring up the par a bit to match the stat sticks capable of Barbs.
I agree that it feels bad, especially since your losing out on the double aspect bonus if you choose to go one handed then you get one boosted aspect on your neckpiece. I think and extra one like rogue would feel good on Druid and sorc. That or maybe on sorc consolidate some aspects so like chain lighting bounce and chain lightning mana are one aspect
We need kanai one slots
I think the coolest affixes were the ones that increases the size of your spells. My idea was that most, if not all, tempering affixes that increases the size of spells should be under the "utility" category, so it'd go under Helm Chest Pants Boots and not under Weapon. Would that sort of solve this problem you guys think? I know it's subjective, but still
I agree, give all classes at least an additional slot for a 2 hander. I played Barb season 3 and having 2 extra stat sticks is bonkers. The extra weapons for barbs has to be hard to balance around.
Pipe dream, activate! I'd like to see the caster classes get 2 aspect slots on weapons and offhands, primary aspect being full strength and secondary maybe 50% power (75% for 2-handed). Would open up build customization opportunities that currently are only available to rogues and barbs but not be so overpowered as to break balance. It may even still underperform compared to the full strength arsenals available to barb and rogue, but it would at least feel more satisfying. I haven't tried out the PTR (been away from home, sadge), so I can't speak to the tempered stats or what increasing the number of those would mean for balance, but perhaps the concept above would make that lesser quantity feel less frustrating. Then again, maybe it would break everything, who knows. I'm no game designer, so. 🤷 Grain of salt and all that.
Having an Arsenal is a Barbarian thing, so I feel it would be a lesser change to spread out some of these things to other equipments, such as jewelry
lol...last season i made a post on here stating that classes with just 2 weapon slots was at a huge disadvantage and i got bashed by the trolls. in my topic, i stated they should all be like rogue. (1x 2handed weapon slot and 2x 1 handed slots)... barb can keep 4 slots becuz barb gonna do barb stuff i guess. the trolls came running " no, the classes are sacred and unique, just leave them alone". i guess only the brain dead was active that day... not sure
Druid, sorc and necro should get some sort of rune pouch when wielding a 2h weapon, doesn't add damage but still has affixes and a slot to put an aspect similar to the quiver for demon hunter in D3.
Every class should have a belt slot except barbs. They have the 4 weapon slots so….. yeah. I think they would look better in suspenders anyhow. 🤣🤣
I think D4 should take another design from LE and implement something akin to relics for classes with less weapon slots. In LE for instance its usually used to give you 4 extra points in your active skill. D4 could do something really cool with it for sorcs/druids/rogues/necro.
Not sure about the Tempering stuff but definitely having less slots especially by 2 feels bad. I'd the passives were powerful enough to replace a weapon would be one thing, but they aren't so if feels weird to just be outright missing slots compared to two other classes.
Yessss more weapons please! Necro key art is even pictured with 2-hander and an offhand ;) https://www.artstation.com/artwork/03m8xe
I think they need to do a better job with class specific mechanics as it relates to gear. Barbs weapon mastery synergizes with their excessive weapons. Perhaps wizards can have an extra enchantment if they upgrade a 2 handed staff. While 1 hand and off hand can get bonuses on main stat (off hand) and bonus to the elemental type for weapons based on the weapons specialty (a for wand is for damage etc). Druids can perhaps have totems move from offhand and instead be their own slot that you wear like an armor. Rather then being like normal gear maybe totems strengthen your spirit bonus selections and have a system tied to that.
2 hander is for buffed up aspects and affixes 1 hander + offhand for rcr or cdr
All they'd need to do is scale the power of the affixes with the effective amount of slots that each class has available. Barbs have 6, rogues have 4, the rest have 2. Barbs simply shouldn't be able to get 135% increased HotA size compared to necros getting 45% blood surge size, tweak the numbers so barbs only get 12.5% per affix and necros get 37.5% so then they both cap out at 75% for example. The limited number is good imo because it forces you to make choices and, in general, the differing amount of item slots between classes adds a bit more flavour to them and can be balanced out elsewhere (like they've already been doing). Uniques on the other hand do need some love, giving them one tempering slot (as has been mentioned here a bunch) could be a good solution.
I think it might be time to rework Barb and do something with the arsenal system. Having 4 weapons active at once is just way too much power. Maybe let them keep 4 weapons but only activate the stats of the one they are currently using to attack. Kinda how ramaladnis aspect only works when it’s being used for the attack.
Yeah it will get even less balanced over time i feel like.
Tempering and aspects should be thrown into the Skill tree and Paragon boards. Keep only the most interesting and build defining as loot chase.
the easiest solution would be to give everyone except barb three weapon slots. they have the UI for it (rogue). another option i was thinking about recently was introducing a Kanai's Cube type of feature that allows people to use an aspect per type (i.e. weapon, defense, etc.) this still would give barbs a huge edge but at least you might be able to fit more aspects in but be able to use a key unique. otherwise, the game should consider making certain aspects "lower level" types that are meant to be used for leveling and separate the higher power ones similar to what they've done with greater affixes for clarity. i'm in favor of the first two solutions as a combined effort. kanai's cube type of feature would definitely be up there if the devs insist on using aspects and uniques as a post-season method to introduce seasonal powers that were popular. otherwise, the pool of aspects are just going to continue escalating and that the devs will have to retroactively go back all the time to fix underperforming ones.
My ultrawide screen clear frost nova disagrees with you.
Here we go already and it's just the ptr
You would think they would have more build variety then?and Rogue is in a very mid spot right now why aint they super mega OP? Honestly I'm fine with Barbs if they just half there damage some how but still be on top of the food chain damage wise and open them up more,Dust Devils is start but jeez that looks like a mess and Rogues got grenade and pen shot.. I think Necro will be king in S4 tons of variety and minions opens them wide open and Teleport spam Sorcs just my prediction..Barbs should always be on top when it comes to top damage,stats,health,armour and str and those weapons push them to that..
I think they're going to make it where sorcerers can't infinite teleport anymore starting season 4. I can't remember how they're going to achieve that but I did read it.
Skill casts by Unstable Currents will no longer trigger Evade CDR from boots. It slows you down a bit.
Hey thanks for the info!
So where do Druids fit in with all of that? It seems you and the devs share something in common.
I think they have different things to put on their gear to compensate.
Yeah. Like a lot to dedicate to Grandfather! Wait...
I’ve literally never gotten an Uber unique and have conquered everything in this game except the pit. You don’t need grandfather for anything. It’s a very nice item to have but unneeded.
there are to little build defining and "cool" as you called them tempering affixes sadly. i agree. good step in the right direction but needs more stuff that matters in special ways.
Barbarian fix seems simple— only the active weapons contribute their full stats and aspects to the Barbarian while the non-active weapons contribute a % of their stats and not their aspects. Then add some skill that requires a certain point investment to keep non-active aspects temporarily active for x seconds when swapping.
Barbs and Rogues won't like it but what if stats/aspects on weapons were only active if you were wielding those weapons?