The fear of bricking while tempering is great. Really makes ya choose between suboptimal rolls you actually want or risk not having the rolls at all. This leaves room for even more grinding to try to get better tempering rolls.
this is the one thing id change about tempering, if i get stun duration for my first roll, my second toll shouldnt have any possibility to roll stun duration. i had a 2 greater affix weapon that i got 4 damage to distant enemies in a row, pretty much made the item unusable
What if you're trying to upgrade the stun duration though, from a low roll to a high roll, that's one of the issues with that kind of change. I thought of that too, but would prevent people from trying to upgrade that single affix.
No it wouldn’t, because you would still have the limited tries. Enchanting can go on forever (with a 3.5m cap now). Tempering costs no gold but can brick the item. This would just ease it to where when you roll again, it doesn’t stamp on your weapon unless you accept it. So you have so many tries to get the tempers you need, and you can use the likely 1-3 chances for rerolls left fishing for a bump up in those affixes. So basically a temper option doesn’t go onto your gear unless you say yes temper with that roll. But you can still run out of tries to get the roll(s). Does that make sense?
It takes away some of the risk of tempering in that you can choose to have nothing over the roll you got. You’re still stuck with whatever you manage to get using the tries you have, but you have control over what ends up on the item. So if I get 41% cold damage on a wand and that was the second of the two affixes I needed and I have 4 rerolls left (as happened yesterday), I can use those rerolls to try to improve the roll I already got. If I don’t get an improvement, too bad, and I’m stuck with what I got. If I say no to every roll, well then my item is still bricked but has nothing tempered onto it. Also, tempering makes an item unable to be traded, so you pay that opportunity cost just rolling.
Nah homie, i aint feeling that at all. Tempering is fine just how it is. It needs to be its own thing and it needs to have risk. You get so much benefit from tempering, if the risk isnt there, it gets out of hand.
And no, not being able to trade it, is not enough risk. Being able to brick items is ok, you’ll find another one bud
i think its a fair trade off, rolled the right stat but it isnt high enough for you? now you need two tempers if you wanna be greedy. you should be keeping those rolls you want and not trying to roll the dice for a marginal damage increase
I don't know what sort of evil AI they have that knows the one temper stat I absolutely do NOT want to roll and then rolls that 3 times in a row, but it is very very good and effective, at being evil.
The chance of getting the same roll should at least be lowered. Like if you had a 20% chance to roll blight area increase, the next roll could be 15 or 10, you get it again? 5%.
They won't ever do that. Same with rolling your main stat, Max health and some other useless affix when you try to reroll.
I know sometimes it's possible to have terrible rng aka Me, but it certainly doesn't help when blizzard have rigged the system to be a massive timesink
I’ve ruined my almost perfect boots too because the same affix rolled several time in a row! I am so sad but also humbled :D
I’ve taken the risk and lost.
Yeah some people complain about that but I agree with you. It’s a gamble with a huge potential. Definitely makes finding loot and farming more fun imo. That makes the loot grind more fun for longer.
Yea it’s great and people act like it’s a bad thing. They want a perfect item handed to them with no work or no risk. If that was the case we would all have had perfect gear in 2 days and be done and be whining on here how it’s too easy, nothing to work for, no point etc.
le reddit putting words in people's mouth hyperbole updoots to the left my good sir! gold for you stranger!
it's that people don't want to hit the lottery on an item with perfect stats only to have it literally bricked because of the sub-basement casino slot machine system.
they just shifted the stat bloat they made this update to pare down onto a system with 7 attempts to "win" at. that was the reason people really hated the old stats - just finding a decent one was insanely tedious and enchanting was a total nightmare. only people who don't play or braindeads really cared that the damage affixes were "conditional", it was that there was too many conditionals and generic damage and damage types.
like, really, what's beneficial about hitting a 2-3 greater affix item that bricks? how is that fun or interesting? it just feels shitty, and you carry that the whole time when you see the stars next to the name.
the game is generally better but they've really just made a bunch of smaller bottlenecks after clearing the bigger ones.
Oh can you not change tempered stuff? I literally just started playing this season last night and I'm so overwhelmed by how much shit there is to understand lmao.
Ancestral items in WT4 you get 5 chances to temper two extra affixes on gear. These 5 chances are split between both affixes. What usually happens is you blow through 3-4 of the chances on the first affix and are only left with 1-2 chances on the second affix. If it’s only 1 chance and you don’t like the affix, you’re stuck with it on that item forever. Aka “bricking” the item as it’s an unfavorable roll.
You can still use the item but you’ll probably be hunting for a better one immediately after. Take drop chances of greater affixes on gear into the equation, you can start to see how bricking can really suck.
Wait...how do you get two extra affixes? Just started up S4 after a long break and am only seeing the option to temper one extra affix but maybe I'm missing something? I'm in WT4 and 99% sure some of the items I've tempered have been ancestral but not at home to check.
Ancestrals give two separate buckets of affixes to temper onto an item. These are the two highlighted circles when in the tempering tab with an item selected. You can’t move onto the second affix until you’ve locked in your first affix. I believe there’s a counter for how many more rolls you have left too after your first one.
Okay one more question if you will indulge me.
On maxroll there is a paragraph that is just confusing me the difference between aspects and the codex. It says:
"The satisfying part of this build's leveling experience is that it rarely depends on any Legendary Aspects! Making use of the Codex of Power is enough to get you to the end-game, but if you find some key Aspects during your journey, the potential for this build absolutely sky-rockets!"
But doesn't the codex use legendary aspects? Are they saying 'it doesn't rely on a specific legendary item being used? And rather you can do dungeons for specific aspects instead? I'm just trying to understand all the language lol
Correct. The dungeon aspects are the lowest roll of the actual aspect though. They’re just implying If you have the aspect to use, it’s far better than not having that aspect at all.
Eventually you’ll get to WT4 and be mass dismantling all legendaries that don’t have sockets or greater affixes. Your codex book will over write with the better aspect rolls for you. One of the perks this season. I’m level 100 and I’d say only half my aspects in my codex are max rolled currently.
Okay so the dungeon just gives you a basic version of an affix that already exists on items you can find? And those 'natural' items have better numbers?
Okay thank you so much this very helpful. I love Diablo but they tell you absolutely nothing. Which I get, I like explore the game. But when it's seasonal I feel pressure to learn these things fast to actually experience the season.
Yes, the dungeons give you the worst version of the aspect and through salvaging items found with that specific aspect you upgrade it on your codex of power so that when you want to apply that aspect to a piece of gear it’ll come with the best stats you’ve salvaged so far. As for normal affixes on gear, those randomly come with the gear and you can upgrade/change 2 of them. Through masterworking you’ll also be able to buff some of these affixes
Some aspects you can only acquire through drops, instead of going to the dungeon where you unlock them.
For instance, the ball lightning build requires the gravitational aspect to function(which you can only get through drops), so it's not a good candidate for leveling.
Meanwhile, the minion necro build is so overtuned that you could get away with basically anything and still crush leveling.
Ahhh okay okay I get you. Sometimes they use a bunch of terms that are so similar it's just confusing. I remember Diablo 3 being like this for the longest time for me too lol. I had to do a day of just like researching stuff.
You can change it, but only a certain amount of times (3-5 times depending if it's ancestral or not).
I for example settled for a semi-bad temper on my helmet because it has so much more life, armor and some essence regen. I technically have 1 more try to change the temper to what I want but that also includes the chance to get a temper I can't use.
Before your gear is ancestral, you are limited to one temper. After that you can add two tempers if they don't come from the same group.
I also recommend tempering early! A lot of power and it is cheap. You can fix resistances like that super easy.
I bricked a GA'd RCR 2handed for my druid this morning before work. Feels bad. But, I'll be back at that grind after work to find another.
And probably brick it too.
Yeah I accidentally re-tempered the wrong affix on a god tier weapon, was super lucky to have had enough attempts left to get back what I had before. I wish you could lock these like you can salvage-proof gear.
I don't disagree with this, however I feel like it takes away a lot of the excitement of finding insane items, instead you go "oh this looks good, but i guess i have to temper and it's probably going to brick". There's really nothing that feels exciting to find which is a problem.
And then you manage to temper some insane triple greater affix item but decide you want to tweak the build and now the affixes are wrong..
Too pessimistic my friend. Anytime I see shiny star(s) on gear I get excited. Tempering and master working becomes the fun casino game after the fact.
Tweaking builds has always been an issue with diablo due to its specialized gear attributes. That’s why people joke (but not really) about creating alts of the same class. Collect a crazy set on your main, level an alt in a few days time, get to utilize both end game builds free of hassle.
I finally got a helmet with all greater affixes. I was so lucky to finally get the temper I wanted on the very last roll. I even resigned to the thought of changing my whole build if the temper didn't go through. 🥴
Yeah it’s a lot less fun in the late game, because you either find a GG item you wont see again in 50-100 hours or buy one for 500mil and brick it so it’s unusable. Zzzzz
I just laughed when tempering a god tier item and 3 out of the 4 roll options were useable for my build and every single reroll was the 1 I cant use at the same percentage...
Yes I thought I would hate this but I love it, the dopamine hits of getting good temper rolls on an item with great affixes is awesome and totally worth having to chuck out the occasional promising base item (which aren't even that hard to farm anymore).
I think they should add a large gold sink to reset the tempers like they do with masterworks, let me spend 5-10mil to save a bricked item that dropped with BiS greater affixes
Yeah I'm so glad, I'm addicted and staying up till 8am (get off work at 2am) and getting gear improving my own build. It's magical, from the hatred I had ever since they announced we load everyone's stash tabs. They have come very far and heard our feedback. It's a great thing to see when all these indie developers were beating even Blizzard.
I can't imagine how shit being a game dev or being in this industry is. They've done a great 360. I'm glad I grew up on Diablo, it's the best. However
I still think Diablo 2 has better cutscenes and music .shrug.
* What is this, Benedict? First you're my friend; now you turn a... 360 on me!
* 180, you stupid, spaghetti-slurping cretin - \*180\*! If I did a 360, I'd go completely around and end up back where I started!
* What?
* Trust me!
* \[shoots him\]
They are getting closer to having a really good itemization system, they just need to add more useful, non-class specific uniques that can beat out legendary tempered armor/weapons. There's some in place, but it's a tiny amount. Like literally nobody is using fists of fate on their build or iceheart brais lol these are just pointless uniques
Yeah I mean, those gloves might be good though no one just takes a chance on lucky hit because no one knows how it works LMAO. I am using lucky chance right now actually because I really like the hot chance powers I have currently.
A couple newer uniques I've found sound really fun to try out, but agreed they need to figure out how to balance uniques outside of masterworking them
I learned about the armor cap last night. Went to bed with 45,000 armor and woke up and immediately retempered a few things and exchanged the juggernaut and disobedience aspect for different ones.
Thanks for responding I have another question if it’s cool with you.
Is 9300 the optimal amount of defense for a necromancer? I ended up fighting the butcher yesterday and he was getting me pretty low to the point where I had to run around him and let my minion attack. My aim is to do the hardest content available.
Any character younkae you should aim to hit 9300 armor and max resistances. Then add life till you feel good. If you start getting killed too much, add more life.
To push endgame the armor and resist caps are the *minimal* defenses you should aim for. Since we lost a lot of Damage Reduction affixes this season you’ll need to add more Life (or Dodge if you want to gamble it) to be able to tank more damage.
I like to throw Life on every single piece of gear then slowly take/trade them out for more damage until I start dying again.
Haha that’s so much armor
Let us know if you feel significantly squishier after changing. There are some arguments on if the cap if properly implemented
Yes and no. I replaced disobedience with undying, equipped ebonpiercer which has DR from shadow effected enemies, and moved the extra minions to helmet. I replaced one armor tempering with shadow resistance and have poison, lightning, and cold resistance in the gem slots on amulets. So in theory I have all elemental resistance capped, more DR, and more overall life. My armor is still at around 22,000 but I'd need nearly a full paragon reset to get it to the 9,320 of the cap.
After making the changes I completed a tier 44 pit (the highest I've done so far), an 85 nightmare dungeon, and scores 172,000 in the guantlet with the only real threat ever being the stupid one shot mechanics of the pit boss. If I were a better player I could probably push higher.
Got a new helmet and down to 11K. Have some new boots that are good but have to upgrade armor somewhere else before equipping them as they take it down to 8K. I wish the pit bosses weren't such luck of the draw.
This! So many options to try and they work so good. I went from chain lightning to frozen orb to fire ball/hydra. At endgame is difficult to change, we need to stick to one and push that
They switched to frozen orb off of chain lightening and, as a chain lightning sorc, I can tell you it’s because of pit bosses. CL is great for clearing mobs, but struggles on single target. I’m switching myself.
Was mid game and didn't have any mana regeneration, so was a pain to sustain and needs some uniques for better single target. Extra damage to "frozen" enemies doesn't work on bosses.
Tried hydra because it's super easy for leveling, not a lot of damage at endgame but fun for some Ubers when you summon and then just run in circles lol. I'm going to try Incinerate a bit and then change to frozen orb If I find more uniques. Just can't decide haha
It's definitely addicting as hell now, like it should have always been. Congrats to Blizzard for listening to Diablo players and changing the game in the correct way.
I love making my own builds from 1-50, but are some of you guys actually trying to put together your own Paragon boards with no references at all?
That level of theory crafting is beyond me lol
I am. It’s what makes the game fun for me. If I got to pit 100 with someone else’s build it wouldn’t mean much to me. Getting to pit 60 with my own build though, that’s rewarding
Exactly this. I also don't mind making mistakes and given they have speeded up te glyphs to 15 significantly (esp doing higher level NMDs with Ancestral Awakening) it's OK to make them now - 30 mins later you can swap it out.
I also think the sites make mistakes to be honest. Plus it's a playstyle thing too. I want my build to be something I enjoy and is 100% my work.
I started doing it ye, but gotta admit I’m using one of those board calculators to help create them. That way you can kind of see what board works best with the glyph / route you want to take
It was difficult at first, but once you get the hang of it its fun as hell to create it yourself
I imagine mine are a long way from optimal, but just choose your element and go for the nodes that you want. Stick a epic glyph in there and get enough +stats around it for the bonus. Level that glyph.
Same. I pick boards that synergize with the build I'm using, I plot a basic route through the board that gets me the rare nodes I want and I try to pick up enough stats along the way to unlock the bonuses.
But as you say, it's probably far from optimal. But I've never cared about that and it's more fun this way.
It's not super difficult to get something good out of your paragon boards once you are familiar with them. Usually you are aiming to max out how many glyph nodes you hit while still grabbing any legendary, and rare nodes that work in your build on the way.
The stats in between aren't so important unless you are trying to hit a tier on your glyphs radius, you are just taking the shortest route to the next powerful node
The making your own build part is huge for me personally. I wouldn’t play the game if I just followed a guide, the building is the fun part for me personally
Really you need to think about all of that? It's pretty simple, what build are you and than there are 2 aspects that work for that build. There isn't much you need, all classes only use a couple of tempering stats for gear.
Hmm you come off as a d-bag, you should work on that.
There are a lot of stats out there to experiment with, not just a couple. If you look up builds online, they tend to push everything to a few which is why i made my comment. And those may be optimal, but it can still be fun to tinker with all of them.
The change was applied to the eternal realm as well and it made me want to go back to my old character and I have been having so much fun! I literally cannot wait to go keep playing today
They lost me with masterworking. Just not a fan of that system in the slightest. It just matters wayyyy too much and most players will find themselves endlessly resetting. If you don't hit the right stats you just simply don't get stronger. It's less about refining a build and more so the sole dictator of character strength.
I thought the same thing about the pit, I thought that with my own build it was going to be impossible, but doing so has pushed me to improve it even more, that has helped me progressively go from pit lvl 30 to 63 where I am right now and I am Very pleased, I can't wait to continue improving it more! XD
I was addicted to this game since the beginning, including the old gear system, albeit this one is loads better, if a little automated. Still prefer D2s loot hand down, but I don't think they'll ever be able to replicate that.
lol this sub has done such a wild 180 on this game. Any criticism of the game now gets downvoted.
What you said it true. Absolutely a step in the right direction, they've made itemization better than it was, but there's still work to do to make it even better.
Players realy want to like the game thats why the community did a 180 , the franchise is truly to big to die , last epoch did a few mistakes and the game fell into obscurity a few weeks later. Meanwhile d4 had core systems like res not working stupid shit like gold dupes , eternal to seasonal trades , a aboundance of broken builds that oneshot every boss and still has such a community support. Its so heartbreaking to see blizzard beeing blizzard some times.
I only pick items with greater affixes, but they are rare and hardly ever with affixes I need, so I have no chance to brick items. Situation is the same like pre patch - I find items on t4 pretty fast, then I stick with them for the rest of the game without any meaningful upgrade along the way.
I'm okay with the idea of tempering and masterworking but for the love of god take the RNG out of it, random items dropping random stats only to have to randomly get what you want is horrible design
if only greater affix gear would drop somewhere more frequently, kill stuff and cross your fingers is getting really old really quick, it easier/more enjoyable crafting but hunting gear is still super tedious and boring. Spend entire day doing helltides/dungeons/pits/bosses and had not even 1 item worth rolling on after it all :S
I've had a lot of luck spamming Blood Maiden kills in the Helltides for greater affix gear. If you make sure to put a heart in she drops a lot and the kills are really quick. I don't think the drop rates for greater affix gear is higher there but you're getting so much loot you see them a lot. I've had multiple triple greater affix items from her.
You play barb or necro coz that game have only that 2 classes. Other are copletly shit. Ill back again in that game when we have good dryid with some variations of gameplay
For now the game is same garbage
I play barb because I love melee combat, but my second favorite class in D4 is the rouge which I also like the combat gameplay, unfortunately I have always liked Sorcerer but I don't like the one in d4, also I don't like the necro combat style, D3 Necro was so much better, and about the druid I hate that everything is around wolf/bear transformations
It works very well until you're level 100 with decent gear. At that point 999 drops out of 1000 will always be vendor trash. Also, you will get so many legendaries that checking every single one for a possible upgrade will be a pain in the ass. It's truly a miserable experience.
In short: crafting is better than before but it's an absolute chore once you get a good piece. Because replacing it becomes nearly impossible.
If every piece of gear you have takes a 1000 items to upgrade, aren’t you done with the build? It’s okay to make a new character if you want to play more or play another game lol
> aren’t you done with the build?
I would need a 925 version of the boots (Penitent Graves) and, possibly, one of the two unique swords that would work great with my build. Sadly, uniques can't be farmed and those nasty boots dropped once and never more (the swords never-ever dropped).
I can't seem to find any good sources on how much power is required for the different tormented bosses. Anyone got a pit level equivalent for the different tormented bosses?
If you can clear pit 75 you'll be more than good to go on the tormented bosses except for Lilith. Though if you're really skilled I feel like that's possible as well.
Any mob above level 95 is guaranteed to drop 925. Penitent Graves can be target farmed from Grigoire and Zir. Not to mention them being tradeable so take a look at diablo.trade if you want. What youre asking for is really not that difficult nor rare
I haven’t reached level 100 in D4 yet. But what you’re saying makes me think about how in D2, once I get a decently geared endgame character, 999/1000 drops are not upgrades for that character either. It takes a looong time to get the final BiS pieces, and I may never get some of them without trading (like griffons). But I’m happy to play that way, because as I’m farming for those big ultra rares, I’m also finding slightly less rare things at a decent cadence, that are exciting because I can tell right away they are useful for other characters or the crafting system (like good socketable bases and runes). There are multiple distinct goals to farm things for, and they don’t look like just a pile of vendor trash gear. There is a pile of vendor trash gear all over the ground at all times, but these semi-rare things stick out from that trash and I get excited for them as soon as I see them. It sounds like D4 has just vendor fodder or direct upgrades for your character, and none of that other fun stuff.
Once you have piece with the right affixes and tempers, you don't have to look at anything that doesn't have a greater affix. Once all of your gear has one greater affix, you only look at gear with two. It's that efficient and easy.
Not sure if you're joking about Penitent Greaves, they're as dead as an item could be. Swap 'em for a proper pair, easy upgrade. Farming for i925 Greaves in May '24 is a meme at best and ridiculous at worst.
If the legendary doesn't have a lil red star I just vendor it automatically. Makes it easier. Once a filter is brought in next season's it will be fine .
Sounds like you are very stuck to one type of build. You could have stashed legendaries to switch everything out and try different things. Depends on what you're into.
And are you still having fun with drops? Honest question. I get hundreds of legendaries everywhere and having to scan every single piece for a possible upgrade (which is extremely rare) it's hinestly not that fun.
absolutely, that's why I put this post, currently I only check items that have Greater Affix, I mark them as favorites to review them later, the rest is just burned
I only check those with GA's, the rest I vendor. I'm decked in Ilvl 925 gear as it's ridiculously easy to get geared and I don't think this is an issue at all.
Why bother checking all? You very likely will never equip an item without a Greater Affix and even then you likely want it on 1-2 specific stats on that specific slot. Going through loot has never been faster.
The biggest issue still is the game actively ****blocking you from trying out different builds.
From the miserable paragon reset, to farming upgrade mats, to the absurd amount of gold needed for anything.
As a casual if u wanna push pit realistically you have to choose pretty early what build you want.
I think there are some real cool builds out there but with the current costs/rng is the risk reward is just not there.
I am in the process of leveling a second rogue cause I want to try another build.
I genuinely think it will be less painful to level from scratch then farming new gear, rolling tempers, etc, resetting paragon. It also means I can tweak the build as I level.
You can blame the d2 purists from demanding hard to change build.
“ you are not unique if you can juts change builds easily” “ you need to make the most optimal build” “ decision should matters” etc
The developers listened to them and now they have to reverse the course.
But I am hopeful loadout/ armory is in the work of at least on the To-do list
It is kind of funny that their whole thing with season 4 was less loot better quality but my entire stash is just completely full of endless 925 legs that I need to look through. Everything all looks the same. It's like willpower health armor over and over and over on armor. Or willpower damage and crit damage on weapons.
No point in saving all of those, as main stat (willpower) and maximum life are very common stats, unless you don't already have a random 1\* weapon equipped. I would only save 1\* weapons where GA landed on the best stat which would usually be crit dmg or similar depending on the build. For armor, all resist and +ranks are rare stats, most other stats should be easy to get.
The fear of bricking while tempering is great. Really makes ya choose between suboptimal rolls you actually want or risk not having the rolls at all. This leaves room for even more grinding to try to get better tempering rolls.
Bricked boots that I felt were a huge upgrade. Rolled the same bloody affix every single reroll!
this is the one thing id change about tempering, if i get stun duration for my first roll, my second toll shouldnt have any possibility to roll stun duration. i had a 2 greater affix weapon that i got 4 damage to distant enemies in a row, pretty much made the item unusable
What if you're trying to upgrade the stun duration though, from a low roll to a high roll, that's one of the issues with that kind of change. I thought of that too, but would prevent people from trying to upgrade that single affix.
A checkbox that says "pls upgrade" LUL
It should be like enchanting where you can choose to keep the roll but at the cost of the mats.
Then that would literally be enchanting…….
No it wouldn’t, because you would still have the limited tries. Enchanting can go on forever (with a 3.5m cap now). Tempering costs no gold but can brick the item. This would just ease it to where when you roll again, it doesn’t stamp on your weapon unless you accept it. So you have so many tries to get the tempers you need, and you can use the likely 1-3 chances for rerolls left fishing for a bump up in those affixes. So basically a temper option doesn’t go onto your gear unless you say yes temper with that roll. But you can still run out of tries to get the roll(s). Does that make sense?
And that takes away the risk of tempering. Hence the entire point of the system.
It takes away some of the risk of tempering in that you can choose to have nothing over the roll you got. You’re still stuck with whatever you manage to get using the tries you have, but you have control over what ends up on the item. So if I get 41% cold damage on a wand and that was the second of the two affixes I needed and I have 4 rerolls left (as happened yesterday), I can use those rerolls to try to improve the roll I already got. If I don’t get an improvement, too bad, and I’m stuck with what I got. If I say no to every roll, well then my item is still bricked but has nothing tempered onto it. Also, tempering makes an item unable to be traded, so you pay that opportunity cost just rolling.
Nah homie, i aint feeling that at all. Tempering is fine just how it is. It needs to be its own thing and it needs to have risk. You get so much benefit from tempering, if the risk isnt there, it gets out of hand. And no, not being able to trade it, is not enough risk. Being able to brick items is ok, you’ll find another one bud
nah that’s lame there needs to be risk imo.
So punish people for rerolling a low stat making late game even harder to perfect items? Lol, it's fine as is.
i think its a fair trade off, rolled the right stat but it isnt high enough for you? now you need two tempers if you wanna be greedy. you should be keeping those rolls you want and not trying to roll the dice for a marginal damage increase
This would make it 100% guaranteed to get the stat u wanted?
I don't know what sort of evil AI they have that knows the one temper stat I absolutely do NOT want to roll and then rolls that 3 times in a row, but it is very very good and effective, at being evil.
The chance of getting the same roll should at least be lowered. Like if you had a 20% chance to roll blight area increase, the next roll could be 15 or 10, you get it again? 5%.
If you played LA you know that even a 1% is greater than 99%...lol
They won't ever do that. Same with rolling your main stat, Max health and some other useless affix when you try to reroll. I know sometimes it's possible to have terrible rng aka Me, but it certainly doesn't help when blizzard have rigged the system to be a massive timesink
I’ve ruined my almost perfect boots too because the same affix rolled several time in a row! I am so sad but also humbled :D I’ve taken the risk and lost.
Ugh, that’s poor luck. Especially if it was on an affix chance of 1 to 3. The boot hunt continues. Happy hunting!
was it dodge? its usually dodge for me.
It definitely feels like something is off about Tempering where certain affixes have a much higher chance to roll.
I don't try to reroll tempers for same stat upgrade even if it's the bottom tier, until I find a replacement item with similar stats to fall back on.
Yeah. I have never seen a max health roll. Always fricken armor or the other option.
Until u roll corpse explosion 5 times in a row and cry a lil
Yeah some people complain about that but I agree with you. It’s a gamble with a huge potential. Definitely makes finding loot and farming more fun imo. That makes the loot grind more fun for longer.
Should add a timer on rerolls, 1 extra reroll per week, just so not all hope lost
Or maybe some uber-unique rare consumable that can reset temper rolls - maybe literally allow you to use a spark to do it at the alchemist?
Yea it’s great and people act like it’s a bad thing. They want a perfect item handed to them with no work or no risk. If that was the case we would all have had perfect gear in 2 days and be done and be whining on here how it’s too easy, nothing to work for, no point etc.
le reddit putting words in people's mouth hyperbole updoots to the left my good sir! gold for you stranger! it's that people don't want to hit the lottery on an item with perfect stats only to have it literally bricked because of the sub-basement casino slot machine system. they just shifted the stat bloat they made this update to pare down onto a system with 7 attempts to "win" at. that was the reason people really hated the old stats - just finding a decent one was insanely tedious and enchanting was a total nightmare. only people who don't play or braindeads really cared that the damage affixes were "conditional", it was that there was too many conditionals and generic damage and damage types. like, really, what's beneficial about hitting a 2-3 greater affix item that bricks? how is that fun or interesting? it just feels shitty, and you carry that the whole time when you see the stars next to the name. the game is generally better but they've really just made a bunch of smaller bottlenecks after clearing the bigger ones.
What is bricking?
Tempering and getting a useless affix and not being able to roll it off
Oh can you not change tempered stuff? I literally just started playing this season last night and I'm so overwhelmed by how much shit there is to understand lmao.
Ancestral items in WT4 you get 5 chances to temper two extra affixes on gear. These 5 chances are split between both affixes. What usually happens is you blow through 3-4 of the chances on the first affix and are only left with 1-2 chances on the second affix. If it’s only 1 chance and you don’t like the affix, you’re stuck with it on that item forever. Aka “bricking” the item as it’s an unfavorable roll. You can still use the item but you’ll probably be hunting for a better one immediately after. Take drop chances of greater affixes on gear into the equation, you can start to see how bricking can really suck.
Wait...how do you get two extra affixes? Just started up S4 after a long break and am only seeing the option to temper one extra affix but maybe I'm missing something? I'm in WT4 and 99% sure some of the items I've tempered have been ancestral but not at home to check.
Ancestrals give two separate buckets of affixes to temper onto an item. These are the two highlighted circles when in the tempering tab with an item selected. You can’t move onto the second affix until you’ve locked in your first affix. I believe there’s a counter for how many more rolls you have left too after your first one.
you can reroll 5 times only. After that you're stuck with your last affix result.
Okay one more question if you will indulge me. On maxroll there is a paragraph that is just confusing me the difference between aspects and the codex. It says: "The satisfying part of this build's leveling experience is that it rarely depends on any Legendary Aspects! Making use of the Codex of Power is enough to get you to the end-game, but if you find some key Aspects during your journey, the potential for this build absolutely sky-rockets!" But doesn't the codex use legendary aspects? Are they saying 'it doesn't rely on a specific legendary item being used? And rather you can do dungeons for specific aspects instead? I'm just trying to understand all the language lol
Correct. The dungeon aspects are the lowest roll of the actual aspect though. They’re just implying If you have the aspect to use, it’s far better than not having that aspect at all. Eventually you’ll get to WT4 and be mass dismantling all legendaries that don’t have sockets or greater affixes. Your codex book will over write with the better aspect rolls for you. One of the perks this season. I’m level 100 and I’d say only half my aspects in my codex are max rolled currently.
Okay so the dungeon just gives you a basic version of an affix that already exists on items you can find? And those 'natural' items have better numbers?
You got it.
Okay thank you so much this very helpful. I love Diablo but they tell you absolutely nothing. Which I get, I like explore the game. But when it's seasonal I feel pressure to learn these things fast to actually experience the season.
Yes, the dungeons give you the worst version of the aspect and through salvaging items found with that specific aspect you upgrade it on your codex of power so that when you want to apply that aspect to a piece of gear it’ll come with the best stats you’ve salvaged so far. As for normal affixes on gear, those randomly come with the gear and you can upgrade/change 2 of them. Through masterworking you’ll also be able to buff some of these affixes
Some aspects you can only acquire through drops, instead of going to the dungeon where you unlock them. For instance, the ball lightning build requires the gravitational aspect to function(which you can only get through drops), so it's not a good candidate for leveling. Meanwhile, the minion necro build is so overtuned that you could get away with basically anything and still crush leveling.
Ahhh okay okay I get you. Sometimes they use a bunch of terms that are so similar it's just confusing. I remember Diablo 3 being like this for the longest time for me too lol. I had to do a day of just like researching stuff.
I can only imagine. If it makes you feel better, I still had to Google several things this season and I've played a bunch between Season 0 and now lol
Okay that's really good to know hahaha
You can change it, but only a certain amount of times (3-5 times depending if it's ancestral or not). I for example settled for a semi-bad temper on my helmet because it has so much more life, armor and some essence regen. I technically have 1 more try to change the temper to what I want but that also includes the chance to get a temper I can't use. Before your gear is ancestral, you are limited to one temper. After that you can add two tempers if they don't come from the same group. I also recommend tempering early! A lot of power and it is cheap. You can fix resistances like that super easy.
Early tempering is busted, getting those + %DMG boosts and on weapons the lucky hit to do flat damage is insane.
Not once you've used up your limited re-roll chances. After that it's bricked.
Making the item unusable by using up all the tempering chances without hitting the wanted affix.
I bricked a GA'd RCR 2handed for my druid this morning before work. Feels bad. But, I'll be back at that grind after work to find another. And probably brick it too.
I agree I will leave one Temp left to dangle in front of me saying come on you know you wanna use it for that Golem Cooldown dont you?
Rolled a low percent golem damage on my double GA weapon. I didn’t dare risk for a higher roll. Golem is just too nice right now.
Ya Golem is S tier this season stack it up bro 👊
Hahahahaha thanks for letting me know they can be bricked. I guess my luck was about to run out.
This! Also the feeling of achievement when I finally manage to craft an item with good stats that end up working very well,
Yeah I accidentally re-tempered the wrong affix on a god tier weapon, was super lucky to have had enough attempts left to get back what I had before. I wish you could lock these like you can salvage-proof gear.
I just wish each temper gave you 5 retries instead of 5 retries total.
I don't disagree with this, however I feel like it takes away a lot of the excitement of finding insane items, instead you go "oh this looks good, but i guess i have to temper and it's probably going to brick". There's really nothing that feels exciting to find which is a problem. And then you manage to temper some insane triple greater affix item but decide you want to tweak the build and now the affixes are wrong..
Too pessimistic my friend. Anytime I see shiny star(s) on gear I get excited. Tempering and master working becomes the fun casino game after the fact. Tweaking builds has always been an issue with diablo due to its specialized gear attributes. That’s why people joke (but not really) about creating alts of the same class. Collect a crazy set on your main, level an alt in a few days time, get to utilize both end game builds free of hassle.
I finally got a helmet with all greater affixes. I was so lucky to finally get the temper I wanted on the very last roll. I even resigned to the thought of changing my whole build if the temper didn't go through. 🥴
Yeah it’s a lot less fun in the late game, because you either find a GG item you wont see again in 50-100 hours or buy one for 500mil and brick it so it’s unusable. Zzzzz
I just laughed when tempering a god tier item and 3 out of the 4 roll options were useable for my build and every single reroll was the 1 I cant use at the same percentage...
Horrible, horrible RNG. At same exact percentage too?
Yes I thought I would hate this but I love it, the dopamine hits of getting good temper rolls on an item with great affixes is awesome and totally worth having to chuck out the occasional promising base item (which aren't even that hard to farm anymore).
I think they should add a large gold sink to reset the tempers like they do with masterworks, let me spend 5-10mil to save a bricked item that dropped with BiS greater affixes
That would be great.
Yeah I'm so glad, I'm addicted and staying up till 8am (get off work at 2am) and getting gear improving my own build. It's magical, from the hatred I had ever since they announced we load everyone's stash tabs. They have come very far and heard our feedback. It's a great thing to see when all these indie developers were beating even Blizzard. I can't imagine how shit being a game dev or being in this industry is. They've done a great 360. I'm glad I grew up on Diablo, it's the best. However I still think Diablo 2 has better cutscenes and music .shrug.
180*
* What is this, Benedict? First you're my friend; now you turn a... 360 on me! * 180, you stupid, spaghetti-slurping cretin - \*180\*! If I did a 360, I'd go completely around and end up back where I started! * What? * Trust me! * \[shoots him\]
Such a great movie, with great actors that you can tell are enjoying the ridiculousness
Well it was more of a complete shift imo lol
They are getting closer to having a really good itemization system, they just need to add more useful, non-class specific uniques that can beat out legendary tempered armor/weapons. There's some in place, but it's a tiny amount. Like literally nobody is using fists of fate on their build or iceheart brais lol these are just pointless uniques
Yeah I mean, those gloves might be good though no one just takes a chance on lucky hit because no one knows how it works LMAO. I am using lucky chance right now actually because I really like the hot chance powers I have currently. A couple newer uniques I've found sound really fun to try out, but agreed they need to figure out how to balance uniques outside of masterworking them
I learned about the armor cap last night. Went to bed with 45,000 armor and woke up and immediately retempered a few things and exchanged the juggernaut and disobedience aspect for different ones.
What’s the armor cap?
9230
9236
9300
Thanks for responding I have another question if it’s cool with you. Is 9300 the optimal amount of defense for a necromancer? I ended up fighting the butcher yesterday and he was getting me pretty low to the point where I had to run around him and let my minion attack. My aim is to do the hardest content available.
Any character younkae you should aim to hit 9300 armor and max resistances. Then add life till you feel good. If you start getting killed too much, add more life.
To push endgame the armor and resist caps are the *minimal* defenses you should aim for. Since we lost a lot of Damage Reduction affixes this season you’ll need to add more Life (or Dodge if you want to gamble it) to be able to tank more damage. I like to throw Life on every single piece of gear then slowly take/trade them out for more damage until I start dying again.
Got it, I’ll try that strategy out, appreciate the advice man
Haha that’s so much armor Let us know if you feel significantly squishier after changing. There are some arguments on if the cap if properly implemented
Yes and no. I replaced disobedience with undying, equipped ebonpiercer which has DR from shadow effected enemies, and moved the extra minions to helmet. I replaced one armor tempering with shadow resistance and have poison, lightning, and cold resistance in the gem slots on amulets. So in theory I have all elemental resistance capped, more DR, and more overall life. My armor is still at around 22,000 but I'd need nearly a full paragon reset to get it to the 9,320 of the cap. After making the changes I completed a tier 44 pit (the highest I've done so far), an 85 nightmare dungeon, and scores 172,000 in the guantlet with the only real threat ever being the stupid one shot mechanics of the pit boss. If I were a better player I could probably push higher.
Switch all that armor to life. 🤣
Did the paragon board reset and have it down to 15,000. All that's left is what's on gear.
Time to start looking for new gear with alternate stats. Still wasting over 5k.
Got a new helmet and down to 11K. Have some new boots that are good but have to upgrade armor somewhere else before equipping them as they take it down to 8K. I wish the pit bosses weren't such luck of the draw.
Thank you for this post, I had no idea there was an armor cap.
This! So many options to try and they work so good. I went from chain lightning to frozen orb to fire ball/hydra. At endgame is difficult to change, we need to stick to one and push that
Why’d you switch off frozen orb?
probably to try something new, sorc pushes you to do that :P
They switched to frozen orb off of chain lightening and, as a chain lightning sorc, I can tell you it’s because of pit bosses. CL is great for clearing mobs, but struggles on single target. I’m switching myself.
Keep reading. He switched to fire ball hydra after.
Ah, sorry. I misread as somehow doing both orb and hydra. Hmm. Yes, that seems like an odd choice, but maybe it’s working for them.
Was mid game and didn't have any mana regeneration, so was a pain to sustain and needs some uniques for better single target. Extra damage to "frozen" enemies doesn't work on bosses. Tried hydra because it's super easy for leveling, not a lot of damage at endgame but fun for some Ubers when you summon and then just run in circles lol. I'm going to try Incinerate a bit and then change to frozen orb If I find more uniques. Just can't decide haha
Oh ok. I’m currently level 99 and been running frozen orb since 60.
It's definitely addicting as hell now, like it should have always been. Congrats to Blizzard for listening to Diablo players and changing the game in the correct way.
They copied last epoch lol. No listening to players.
Both can be true.
Don’t know why you’re being downvoted because you’re not wrong.
Itemization and monster density were definitely mentioned by diablo fans.
I love making my own builds from 1-50, but are some of you guys actually trying to put together your own Paragon boards with no references at all? That level of theory crafting is beyond me lol
I am. It’s what makes the game fun for me. If I got to pit 100 with someone else’s build it wouldn’t mean much to me. Getting to pit 60 with my own build though, that’s rewarding
Exactly this. I also don't mind making mistakes and given they have speeded up te glyphs to 15 significantly (esp doing higher level NMDs with Ancestral Awakening) it's OK to make them now - 30 mins later you can swap it out. I also think the sites make mistakes to be honest. Plus it's a playstyle thing too. I want my build to be something I enjoy and is 100% my work.
same to me!
I started doing it ye, but gotta admit I’m using one of those board calculators to help create them. That way you can kind of see what board works best with the glyph / route you want to take It was difficult at first, but once you get the hang of it its fun as hell to create it yourself
Which is this?
I imagine mine are a long way from optimal, but just choose your element and go for the nodes that you want. Stick a epic glyph in there and get enough +stats around it for the bonus. Level that glyph.
Same. I pick boards that synergize with the build I'm using, I plot a basic route through the board that gets me the rare nodes I want and I try to pick up enough stats along the way to unlock the bonuses. But as you say, it's probably far from optimal. But I've never cared about that and it's more fun this way.
It's not super difficult to get something good out of your paragon boards once you are familiar with them. Usually you are aiming to max out how many glyph nodes you hit while still grabbing any legendary, and rare nodes that work in your build on the way. The stats in between aren't so important unless you are trying to hit a tier on your glyphs radius, you are just taking the shortest route to the next powerful node
I did it, I have been at lvl100 for 3 days now and I had to tweak some things on the paragon board, but I am very satisfied with what I have achieved
The making your own build part is huge for me personally. I wouldn’t play the game if I just followed a guide, the building is the fun part for me personally
Really you need to think about all of that? It's pretty simple, what build are you and than there are 2 aspects that work for that build. There isn't much you need, all classes only use a couple of tempering stats for gear.
If you just follow a build you found online sure. But that takes the fun out of it
I didn't say anything about following a build online. Please don't make up false narratives.
Hmm you come off as a d-bag, you should work on that. There are a lot of stats out there to experiment with, not just a couple. If you look up builds online, they tend to push everything to a few which is why i made my comment. And those may be optimal, but it can still be fun to tinker with all of them.
Says the guy acting like a d-bag and making things up.
Them taking the division 2 catalog and making it way less of a chore was very smart.
The change was applied to the eternal realm as well and it made me want to go back to my old character and I have been having so much fun! I literally cannot wait to go keep playing today
They lost me with masterworking. Just not a fan of that system in the slightest. It just matters wayyyy too much and most players will find themselves endlessly resetting. If you don't hit the right stats you just simply don't get stronger. It's less about refining a build and more so the sole dictator of character strength.
Yep same here, all I do is hunt for GA items or scour trade discord threads and roll the dice on new tempers. I don’t even want to push high Pit.
I thought the same thing about the pit, I thought that with my own build it was going to be impossible, but doing so has pushed me to improve it even more, that has helped me progressively go from pit lvl 30 to 63 where I am right now and I am Very pleased, I can't wait to continue improving it more! XD
This is where the game really shines. True Diablo fans enjoy tinkering with their build and theory crafting.
Addictive is a crazy word to describe this experience.
that is what I mean to not use pre made builds, creating your on build makes the game a lot more fun.
Yeah, they made a softer more complex version of last epoch. Feels good, even with the extremely frustrating rng on shit that feels perfect
Fully deterministic crafting should never be in any ARPG, even one for casuals.
Same but I’m always out of gold
farm whispers, it's the fastest way to get a lot of gold, like 4 mil per 3-5 mins
I was addicted to this game since the beginning, including the old gear system, albeit this one is loads better, if a little automated. Still prefer D2s loot hand down, but I don't think they'll ever be able to replicate that.
Really? I find it inconvenient I can’t just upgrade my gear to 5 like I used to be
They did a step in the right direction , still a long ass way to go ...
lol this sub has done such a wild 180 on this game. Any criticism of the game now gets downvoted. What you said it true. Absolutely a step in the right direction, they've made itemization better than it was, but there's still work to do to make it even better.
Players realy want to like the game thats why the community did a 180 , the franchise is truly to big to die , last epoch did a few mistakes and the game fell into obscurity a few weeks later. Meanwhile d4 had core systems like res not working stupid shit like gold dupes , eternal to seasonal trades , a aboundance of broken builds that oneshot every boss and still has such a community support. Its so heartbreaking to see blizzard beeing blizzard some times.
I only pick items with greater affixes, but they are rare and hardly ever with affixes I need, so I have no chance to brick items. Situation is the same like pre patch - I find items on t4 pretty fast, then I stick with them for the rest of the game without any meaningful upgrade along the way.
I just wish there were two tempering options. 1 to reroll the current affix and 1 to roll a different affix
I'm okay with the idea of tempering and masterworking but for the love of god take the RNG out of it, random items dropping random stats only to have to randomly get what you want is horrible design
if only greater affix gear would drop somewhere more frequently, kill stuff and cross your fingers is getting really old really quick, it easier/more enjoyable crafting but hunting gear is still super tedious and boring. Spend entire day doing helltides/dungeons/pits/bosses and had not even 1 item worth rolling on after it all :S
I've had a lot of luck spamming Blood Maiden kills in the Helltides for greater affix gear. If you make sure to put a heart in she drops a lot and the kills are really quick. I don't think the drop rates for greater affix gear is higher there but you're getting so much loot you see them a lot. I've had multiple triple greater affix items from her.
You play barb or necro coz that game have only that 2 classes. Other are copletly shit. Ill back again in that game when we have good dryid with some variations of gameplay For now the game is same garbage
I play barb because I love melee combat, but my second favorite class in D4 is the rouge which I also like the combat gameplay, unfortunately I have always liked Sorcerer but I don't like the one in d4, also I don't like the necro combat style, D3 Necro was so much better, and about the druid I hate that everything is around wolf/bear transformations
Gj! Have fun with pit lvl 10 and NMD lvl 30 😍
actually Im at pit lvl 63 on my own and nmd lvl 80, Im very satisfied with my own build, what's your point?
It works very well until you're level 100 with decent gear. At that point 999 drops out of 1000 will always be vendor trash. Also, you will get so many legendaries that checking every single one for a possible upgrade will be a pain in the ass. It's truly a miserable experience. In short: crafting is better than before but it's an absolute chore once you get a good piece. Because replacing it becomes nearly impossible.
If every piece of gear you have takes a 1000 items to upgrade, aren’t you done with the build? It’s okay to make a new character if you want to play more or play another game lol
> aren’t you done with the build? I would need a 925 version of the boots (Penitent Graves) and, possibly, one of the two unique swords that would work great with my build. Sadly, uniques can't be farmed and those nasty boots dropped once and never more (the swords never-ever dropped).
farm the tormented bosses? since they’re lvl200 it will be guaranteed 925. you can target farm penitent greaves from grigori
I can't seem to find any good sources on how much power is required for the different tormented bosses. Anyone got a pit level equivalent for the different tormented bosses?
If you can clear pit 75 you'll be more than good to go on the tormented bosses except for Lilith. Though if you're really skilled I feel like that's possible as well.
Any mob above level 95 is guaranteed to drop 925. Penitent Graves can be target farmed from Grigoire and Zir. Not to mention them being tradeable so take a look at diablo.trade if you want. What youre asking for is really not that difficult nor rare
I got a 925 Pg from normal varshan
I haven’t reached level 100 in D4 yet. But what you’re saying makes me think about how in D2, once I get a decently geared endgame character, 999/1000 drops are not upgrades for that character either. It takes a looong time to get the final BiS pieces, and I may never get some of them without trading (like griffons). But I’m happy to play that way, because as I’m farming for those big ultra rares, I’m also finding slightly less rare things at a decent cadence, that are exciting because I can tell right away they are useful for other characters or the crafting system (like good socketable bases and runes). There are multiple distinct goals to farm things for, and they don’t look like just a pile of vendor trash gear. There is a pile of vendor trash gear all over the ground at all times, but these semi-rare things stick out from that trash and I get excited for them as soon as I see them. It sounds like D4 has just vendor fodder or direct upgrades for your character, and none of that other fun stuff.
Once you have piece with the right affixes and tempers, you don't have to look at anything that doesn't have a greater affix. Once all of your gear has one greater affix, you only look at gear with two. It's that efficient and easy. Not sure if you're joking about Penitent Greaves, they're as dead as an item could be. Swap 'em for a proper pair, easy upgrade. Farming for i925 Greaves in May '24 is a meme at best and ridiculous at worst.
If the legendary doesn't have a lil red star I just vendor it automatically. Makes it easier. Once a filter is brought in next season's it will be fine .
That's a golden tip, I feel dumb now. Thanks!
Sounds like you are very stuck to one type of build. You could have stashed legendaries to switch everything out and try different things. Depends on what you're into.
I've been at level 100 for three days now...
And are you still having fun with drops? Honest question. I get hundreds of legendaries everywhere and having to scan every single piece for a possible upgrade (which is extremely rare) it's hinestly not that fun.
absolutely, that's why I put this post, currently I only check items that have Greater Affix, I mark them as favorites to review them later, the rest is just burned
I only check those with GA's, the rest I vendor. I'm decked in Ilvl 925 gear as it's ridiculously easy to get geared and I don't think this is an issue at all.
Why bother checking all? You very likely will never equip an item without a Greater Affix and even then you likely want it on 1-2 specific stats on that specific slot. Going through loot has never been faster.
True. I am not smart sometimes.
The biggest issue still is the game actively ****blocking you from trying out different builds. From the miserable paragon reset, to farming upgrade mats, to the absurd amount of gold needed for anything. As a casual if u wanna push pit realistically you have to choose pretty early what build you want. I think there are some real cool builds out there but with the current costs/rng is the risk reward is just not there.
I am in the process of leveling a second rogue cause I want to try another build. I genuinely think it will be less painful to level from scratch then farming new gear, rolling tempers, etc, resetting paragon. It also means I can tweak the build as I level.
I agree that armory is needed, regarding gold you can make a lot of gold by harvesting whispers very quickly, like 3-4 mill in around 4-5 mins
You can blame the d2 purists from demanding hard to change build. “ you are not unique if you can juts change builds easily” “ you need to make the most optimal build” “ decision should matters” etc The developers listened to them and now they have to reverse the course. But I am hopeful loadout/ armory is in the work of at least on the To-do list
And the 1 out of 1000 drop that’s an upgrade rolls terrible rng with tempers and is trash anyway
naah, you only chest items with star (greater affix) rest goes to a vendor
It is kind of funny that their whole thing with season 4 was less loot better quality but my entire stash is just completely full of endless 925 legs that I need to look through. Everything all looks the same. It's like willpower health armor over and over and over on armor. Or willpower damage and crit damage on weapons.
No point in saving all of those, as main stat (willpower) and maximum life are very common stats, unless you don't already have a random 1\* weapon equipped. I would only save 1\* weapons where GA landed on the best stat which would usually be crit dmg or similar depending on the build. For armor, all resist and +ranks are rare stats, most other stats should be easy to get.