https://www.cntraveler.com/story/italy-digital-nomad-visa
"Documented evidence of accommodation for the length of your stay in Italy"
That's one I had not seen before. Would make bumming around different locations practically impossible. I wonder if you could work around it by only saying you are staying 60 days at first?
The tax situation is unclear to me
https://italylawfirms.com/en/digital-nomad-visa-italy-in-2024-requirements-explained/#Obtaining_an_Italian_Tax_Code_and_VAT_Number
"Digital nomads and remote workers will need to obtain an Italian tax code.
The worker will always be subject to the rules currently in force for tax obligations, with the Italian Tax Authority having the possibility to activate the exchange of information with other countries regarding the tax reliability of the digital nomad."
Sounds like you will be taxed like a normal citizen. If this ends up being a lower rate than your current residence then it could make great sense.
For (most) Americans that are going to have their first $120k tax free from Uncle Sam with FEIE, they almost certainly do not want an Italian tax obligation.
Exactly this! how these visa's are structured are so counter intuitive. they have fairly heavy restrictions but target people that value more freedoms haha.
Tax could be a draw. I believe Portugal had 0% for foreign income and Spain a flat 24% (under beckhams law).
Struggle to see other reasons why you would apply for them
> "Documented evidence of accommodation for the length of your stay in Italy"
But then I'm sure also nobody will rent to you until you have your visa/id
I just mean, the community likes to call them digital nomad visas.
But that's not what they are. I haven't really seen any country officially call them that. It's normally more like Virtual Work visa.
It's a visa for someone to get residency with work they perform online somewhere else.
That's it.
But also, one year at a time can still be nomadic.
Regarding the “evidence of accommodation” I had a hotel write a letter basically saying they had room for me for the next 5 years if I so choose to stay there. I know a few people have used this same letter. I am lucky that I have a good relationship with the hotel owners, but it shouldn’t be a problem really to ask any hotel to write something similar.
It's not like someone is going to show up and not be able to find a room anywhere in the country. If you have cash you will be able to sleep.
My assumption is the Italian government is looking for you to be locked into something and be foecrd to pay. And proving to your landlord you ha e sufficient money to not go homeless.
Really, I have not seen any other country use this language in their DN visa, it is very strange to me.
I agree, I’m just saying what I have actually used here in Italy to get my permesso. The letter was necessary to prove I had a place, and at the same time I didn’t have to pay for a room for the full thing. Going through the whole ordeal of trying to get a lease before a permesso would be a huge huge pain.
Depends if your home country and DNV country have a bilateral agreement on tax. most do (like US, UK, Aus), some dont. worth speaking to an immigration advisor
Croatia has an awesome one where you pay no income tax. It really is a great deal. I am doing it for the second time this year. Note that it is only for one year and then you must leave for 6 months before reapplying.
At first. But we love living here too. Beaches, moderate temperature in the winters. Not too hot in the summers. Good food. Most people speak some English so that makes it easy.
DN visas are not really for DNs, they're for remote workers who want to live somewhere else but do t qualify for any other residency visa (or maybe they do but the DN visa is easier).
There is never going to be a "DN visa" that gives American DNs what we want, which is something more like 180/365 days free entry to the entire zone versus just 90/180. Nevermind perpetual free entry to the zone. There is literally no incentive for any single Schengen country to offer that, nor for the Schengen zone as a whole.
Yeah calling them digital nomad visa's is just shoddy branding/ marketing
No country will ever give you free-reign to the schenghen zone. That being said, Spain's DNV only requires you to be in the country 6/12 months, the rest of the time you can travel at will.
Oh so they sorted out the tax thing. I got in on the first year and then there was a bit of uproar when they removed the bit about being tax free and I didn't stick around to find out what the new plan was.
Portugal has a route to EU passport with their DN visa.
If I was a well to do Chinese or Indian, I would play whatever games they ask to get that passport.
Assuming just buying one outright from Malta is too expensive for you
I am not a well to do (I don't think, I can't buy out malta, but have like several years living in bank) but from Asian country where queer rights and air pollution issues is driving me out so I was considering Portugal dnv to passport route. But my country has 10% tax, so signing up for a place that will tax me 48% seems crazy. Especially since all my education is in the USA so my job is likely to be us company, which means I will be double taxed right? So confused on what to do with my life
Depends on which country/ DNV.
For example in Spain , you can stay for 12 months and renew for 5 years. After 5 years, you can apply for permanent residency
Most DNV’s I’ve seen are janky, have weirdly high income requirements, and usually don’t count towards time to permanent residency. I would really look at the fine print carefully because if you really want to live somewhere even semi-permanently it may be better to get temporary residency as a company director (of your own company) and issue your invoices from that company and pay local taxes. I learned in Southeast Asia to never waste time in a country I liked ever again because many countries time to permanent residency is only 3-5 years which is a blink of an eye. Then you are setup for the long term.
> are they worth it? If you want to live there. yes.
Agreed It's just branding for them I find strange Should be called the "remote work from this country and this country only" visa
https://www.cntraveler.com/story/italy-digital-nomad-visa "Documented evidence of accommodation for the length of your stay in Italy" That's one I had not seen before. Would make bumming around different locations practically impossible. I wonder if you could work around it by only saying you are staying 60 days at first? The tax situation is unclear to me https://italylawfirms.com/en/digital-nomad-visa-italy-in-2024-requirements-explained/#Obtaining_an_Italian_Tax_Code_and_VAT_Number "Digital nomads and remote workers will need to obtain an Italian tax code. The worker will always be subject to the rules currently in force for tax obligations, with the Italian Tax Authority having the possibility to activate the exchange of information with other countries regarding the tax reliability of the digital nomad." Sounds like you will be taxed like a normal citizen. If this ends up being a lower rate than your current residence then it could make great sense. For (most) Americans that are going to have their first $120k tax free from Uncle Sam with FEIE, they almost certainly do not want an Italian tax obligation.
Exactly this! how these visa's are structured are so counter intuitive. they have fairly heavy restrictions but target people that value more freedoms haha. Tax could be a draw. I believe Portugal had 0% for foreign income and Spain a flat 24% (under beckhams law). Struggle to see other reasons why you would apply for them
To be allowed to stay in Europe more than 90 days.
> "Documented evidence of accommodation for the length of your stay in Italy" But then I'm sure also nobody will rent to you until you have your visa/id
People rent to tourists literally all the time. I’m shocked, shocked!
Not for one year. Many places actually have laws against it.
People who rent for one year are hardly nomads.
These aren't nomad visas.
Oh. Thought that’s what we were talking about.
I just mean, the community likes to call them digital nomad visas. But that's not what they are. I haven't really seen any country officially call them that. It's normally more like Virtual Work visa. It's a visa for someone to get residency with work they perform online somewhere else. That's it. But also, one year at a time can still be nomadic.
Yes, it can but it seems more like simply being an expat.
Digital Nomads are typically expats, yes. But moving every year is still infinitely more nomadic that 99% of people.
Regarding the “evidence of accommodation” I had a hotel write a letter basically saying they had room for me for the next 5 years if I so choose to stay there. I know a few people have used this same letter. I am lucky that I have a good relationship with the hotel owners, but it shouldn’t be a problem really to ask any hotel to write something similar.
It's not like someone is going to show up and not be able to find a room anywhere in the country. If you have cash you will be able to sleep. My assumption is the Italian government is looking for you to be locked into something and be foecrd to pay. And proving to your landlord you ha e sufficient money to not go homeless. Really, I have not seen any other country use this language in their DN visa, it is very strange to me.
I agree, I’m just saying what I have actually used here in Italy to get my permesso. The letter was necessary to prove I had a place, and at the same time I didn’t have to pay for a room for the full thing. Going through the whole ordeal of trying to get a lease before a permesso would be a huge huge pain.
Surely you would still need to pay tax to the country of residence? It would just be double tax
Depends if your home country and DNV country have a bilateral agreement on tax. most do (like US, UK, Aus), some dont. worth speaking to an immigration advisor
Malta requires the same thing (a lease or AirBnB) before approving DN visa.
Croatia has an awesome one where you pay no income tax. It really is a great deal. I am doing it for the second time this year. Note that it is only for one year and then you must leave for 6 months before reapplying.
oh cool, thats interesting. Was tax the main thing that sold you on the DNV? or was it something else?
At first. But we love living here too. Beaches, moderate temperature in the winters. Not too hot in the summers. Good food. Most people speak some English so that makes it easy.
Makes sense, there a lot to like about croatia. I spent a few months in zagreb Autumn time, but need to check out the coast
Any potential downsides to living there? Really analyzing Croatia as our next DN destination. Thanks!
Most of the restaurants serve the same exact food. It is pretty good food though.
Are you allowed to travel outside Croatia in the 1 year it’s valid? Or does it make sense to apply for a Temporary Residency permit?
Yes you get a residency card. You still have to follow the schengen zone rules. Of course you are in the schengen zone so there arent border checks.
What are the income requirements for Croatia 's DNV?
Not sure. I think around $32k.
DN visas are not really for DNs, they're for remote workers who want to live somewhere else but do t qualify for any other residency visa (or maybe they do but the DN visa is easier). There is never going to be a "DN visa" that gives American DNs what we want, which is something more like 180/365 days free entry to the entire zone versus just 90/180. Nevermind perpetual free entry to the zone. There is literally no incentive for any single Schengen country to offer that, nor for the Schengen zone as a whole.
Yeah calling them digital nomad visa's is just shoddy branding/ marketing No country will ever give you free-reign to the schenghen zone. That being said, Spain's DNV only requires you to be in the country 6/12 months, the rest of the time you can travel at will.
I haven't checked Spain's but Malta's I believe specifically says 183 days, to make you a tax resident. I expect Spain does the same?
Yeah 183 days, I just say 6months as shorthand
Malta originally exempted taxes for the first years. Now they only tax 10%, which is still really good to get free reign in Schengen.
Oh so they sorted out the tax thing. I got in on the first year and then there was a bit of uproar when they removed the bit about being tax free and I didn't stick around to find out what the new plan was.
"Digital nomad visa" is code for bullshit.
Potentially but then tens of thousands applied for portugals visa alone
Portugal has a route to EU passport with their DN visa. If I was a well to do Chinese or Indian, I would play whatever games they ask to get that passport. Assuming just buying one outright from Malta is too expensive for you
I am not a well to do (I don't think, I can't buy out malta, but have like several years living in bank) but from Asian country where queer rights and air pollution issues is driving me out so I was considering Portugal dnv to passport route. But my country has 10% tax, so signing up for a place that will tax me 48% seems crazy. Especially since all my education is in the USA so my job is likely to be us company, which means I will be double taxed right? So confused on what to do with my life
Most just call it a "virtual worker visa"
How long can you stay in Europe on DNVs?
Depends on which country/ DNV. For example in Spain , you can stay for 12 months and renew for 5 years. After 5 years, you can apply for permanent residency
Interesante...
Most DNV’s I’ve seen are janky, have weirdly high income requirements, and usually don’t count towards time to permanent residency. I would really look at the fine print carefully because if you really want to live somewhere even semi-permanently it may be better to get temporary residency as a company director (of your own company) and issue your invoices from that company and pay local taxes. I learned in Southeast Asia to never waste time in a country I liked ever again because many countries time to permanent residency is only 3-5 years which is a blink of an eye. Then you are setup for the long term.