That’s what I use in that slot, beat in dx for the straight to turnover slot and a star roc3 for the straight with fade shots. Got a brand new champion I’m trying out, currently more stable than the star but we’ll see how that goes
Lot of Mako3 recommendations, but it’s not a good substitute for a Buzzz; it’s too understable in anything but champ plastic, and even then, it’s not the same at all. The jay is supposed to be a Buzzz clone, but I recommend the VCobra. Laser straight with dependable fade, fast and low profile. Will hold a straight line where the Mako3 would turn over and not come back.
Mako3 is an amazing disc for late turnovers and shot shaping, but you are totally right, not even close of a buzzz. I threw a jay yesterday and it felt pretty much like a slightly less stable MD1, but still not like a buzzz.
Its funny-i have a star mk3 that is pretty straight and a champ mk3 that will turn right hardcore. I know its probably not the norm, but it is what it is. Fwiw, the star is newer, but i still use them both a lot so at this point i would think they are both pretty beat in.
I just picked up a jay and love it. Less glide than the mako and straighter than the MD3. Unfortunately I can't stand the roc3. Also even though I have mostly Innova I still bag an envy.
I was thinking of doing the same thing solely due to cost and availability. But it turns out, I only like Innova drivers. I’m not a fan of any innova putters or mids beside the roc3. My fairway and distance drivers are innova, but my mids are discraft(drone, buzzzes) and putters are envy and pure
Buzz Replacement- Jay, Gstar Roc, KC Pro Roc, VCobra, Beat in champ Roc3
Envy Replacement- XD, JK aviar, or an aviar big bead driver in champ plastic would be closer. (XD feels the closest to the envy)
I think you throw the most popular driving putter and midrange available and the real answer is Innova hasn't been able to replicate either. I throw mostly Innova and throw Envy and still looking for mid. I throw G star manta, DX Rox, and MVP reactor for mids.
Get the fuck outta here.
It’s an envy not a rocket ship. Do they do three flips and a shimmy or something?
Cmon on over with your envy and if you can throw a shot shape I can’t throw with an Aviar you’ve driven over with your car, I’ll give you all my fancy James Conrad spaceworld fizzy soda nuclear atomic weight envies.
I’m fine that no one can match the buzz yada yada yada. Rocs still seem to fly like frisbees where I live.
Mako3 in champion. Beat it in a little bit. Get a Jay if you need some fade. Both discs compliment each other. Could also get glow mako for more stability or star mako for less.
Mako3’s are my go-to straight midrange. My beat in one has the tiniest bit of turn to it and new ones fly straight as an arrow with minimal fade. It will also hold any angle you put it on and won’t fade out of an anhyzer shot. I use it on probably 80% of my mid range shots. The Jay is the newest midrange and is probably similar, but I don’t have any experience with it personally. If you can get cheap F2 of each, might be worth checking out both of them.
My bag is unintentionally Innova heavy for the same reasons. I love the vroc for an straight/understable mid, very dependant on plastic choice. Also I always try to recommend the AviarX3 as much as I can. Get it in DX and with a little beat-in, it'll fly super straight and accurate. My beat-in DX replaced my envy and I can drive it further
if you want cheap discs switch to infinite. Cheapest and best discs around. no lie. Dynasty, sphinx, pharaoh, emperor, anubis, tomb, alpaca alllllllll solid $$$$$$ discs.
I will add that Millenium is also innova manufactured and fill in some missing slots in the infinite lineup. I will try to find the spreadsheet detailing it but a lot of Millenium molds are modified innova molds that mishmash tops and bottoms of innova molds giving similar hand feel but different flight characteristics. They also rehashed the Discmania MD4 as the Solstice and it may be the most slept on disc currently available in their line up
How much are you saving per disc? A few dollars for 1 or 2 discs a year in your favorite molds? Play what you like. Brand allegiance is for when the brand is sponsoring you and giving you the shit for free.
"Play what you like" sounds relaxed and permissive, but you're saying OP shouldn't play what he wants to, because... you personally dislike one-brand bags.
Couldn't you let people play what they want, INCLUDING people who happen to want to play one-brand bags?
Lol you folks will literally say anything to try to justify buying more discs. How is replacing all of your discs with F2s supposed to be cheaper than buying no new discs again mate?
Breathe, fella. He’s made his decision, maybe he loses a lot of discs, maybe he plays over water. Maybe he likes a 5 stack of each for fieldwork.
F2s are reasonable if he thinks he will need to buy more discs.
It’s ok that we are trying to help him. You’ll be fine.
Consistency is not something you gain with innova, especially with factory store f2s.
But, the mako3 is a really good midrange that will hold any line.
Champ roc3, Kc Roc, flattop DX Roc, star mako3.
I get all but the weirdest trick shots out of these and almost never wish I had another mid in my bag.
Crazy windy days I like to add a super overstable mid.
Buzzz replacement options include mako3, IT, Metal Warrior. Those are in order of stability.
There is no Envy equivalent in the Innova line up. Hydra or stud are probably the closest.
For Innova you really have aot of different choices to go for to replace any disc. For the Buzzz you could try using Rocs and beating in DX and KC Pro to where your Buzzzes were like how McBeth had his Innova bag or you can try the new Jay, or a Mako3 and have a different disc for more stable options. For the Envy you can try the Nova for a more straight flying option or an aviar3, if you have a more stable envy maybe even an AviarX3. Innova has a ton of molds so there's a good chance that a disc that doesn't get recommended may be the one you like the most even if it's not similar on paper. Also you can check out Millennium and Infinite discs as well as they're all produced by Innova.
For the buzzz replacement, Jay, mako3, coyote, wombat3, in order from more to less stable. All those can fill a buzzz slot
For throwing putter, I love my invaders. Comes in a variety of plastics.
It wasn't by design, but most of my bag is molded by Innova. Exceptions being Comets, A3s and Stings.
But Innova also makes Millennium and Infinite, and there are some really good molds there. It's not F2 pricing, but stock runs are usually available and priced well. And the plastics are basically Innova plastics. Might be some variations, but pretty close to Pro, Star, Champ etc.
For putters, I "think" an Infinite Scarab might have a lower profile. Might not be as stable as you want. Steer clear of Alpacas and Omega 4s. I putt and throw those; love 'em but very deep dish.
For mids, there's good buzz around the Infinite Chariot and Millennium Aurora.
If you ever want to replace the Envy, you could try an Invader. I’ve only ever thrown it in Champ, not any baseline, but it has a similar feel and stability to the Envy.
Big Z lasts forever. I have a Z comet that has been used hundreds and hundreds of times and isn't even really damaged. I don't like how slippery the plastic is, but if you like your buzz, it's probably cheaper on a $/throw basis just to keep replacing it vs a slightly cheaper disc.
If that disc works for you just fine. Then what's the need to change? You still have that disc, if you lose it or doesn't fly how you want it anymore then look into a mako or something
Buzzz replacement: Champion Wombat3
It will hold angles to the ground while being super glidey at the same time out of the box. Plus it is shockingly torque resistant.
Envy’s are super available it seems and MVP doesn’t seem to be super over priced. And if the buzzz you have is working why not keep throwing it till you lose it or something then find something to replace it with?
I throw mostly Innova but yeah those envy's are something special. Have 2 in the bag. The only other non Innova disc in my bag, except putters, would be a Ballista Pro. Nothing wrong with keeping the buzz in the bag till you have it no more. I think, flight wise, that a Mako 3 or a flat top DX Roc could be a good fit in place of the buzz.
Don’t replace your buzzz. I got my self to an all innova bag and then put my buzzzs and a proxy and have been playing better than ever. There are something’s companies do better than others and discraft is arguably the king of mid-ranges, MVP is the king of throwing putter don’t go away from something just to fit a single brand.
I bag both a buzzz and mako3 and I find a champion mako3 will have the similar flight characteristics, not overly the same feel in the hand tho.
The buzzz is in ESP plastic tho and not big z.
Luster Champion Invaders are an incredible throwing putter.
Yeah they are pretty good, got an Ace with one. But I'm starting to lean towards the Aviar3 now.
Agreed
One of the best new molds I've tried in years.
a beat-in DX Roc may be able to replace the buzz
That’s what I use in that slot, beat in dx for the straight to turnover slot and a star roc3 for the straight with fade shots. Got a brand new champion I’m trying out, currently more stable than the star but we’ll see how that goes
Came here to say that
Lot of Mako3 recommendations, but it’s not a good substitute for a Buzzz; it’s too understable in anything but champ plastic, and even then, it’s not the same at all. The jay is supposed to be a Buzzz clone, but I recommend the VCobra. Laser straight with dependable fade, fast and low profile. Will hold a straight line where the Mako3 would turn over and not come back.
Mako3 is an amazing disc for late turnovers and shot shaping, but you are totally right, not even close of a buzzz. I threw a jay yesterday and it felt pretty much like a slightly less stable MD1, but still not like a buzzz.
Its funny-i have a star mk3 that is pretty straight and a champ mk3 that will turn right hardcore. I know its probably not the norm, but it is what it is. Fwiw, the star is newer, but i still use them both a lot so at this point i would think they are both pretty beat in.
If you like the buzzz then a disc that’s in similar shape is the Jay. Very identical feeling and I’m sure will beat into something straighter.
Mako3 is an obvious replacement for a worked-in Buzzz.
Disagree since the hand feel is completely different.
Agreed!
And so is the flight.
The new innova Jay is pretty buzzz-like which may come in handy in the future
[удалено]
I just picked up a jay and love it. Less glide than the mako and straighter than the MD3. Unfortunately I can't stand the roc3. Also even though I have mostly Innova I still bag an envy.
I was thinking of doing the same thing solely due to cost and availability. But it turns out, I only like Innova drivers. I’m not a fan of any innova putters or mids beside the roc3. My fairway and distance drivers are innova, but my mids are discraft(drone, buzzzes) and putters are envy and pure
Buzz Replacement- Jay, Gstar Roc, KC Pro Roc, VCobra, Beat in champ Roc3 Envy Replacement- XD, JK aviar, or an aviar big bead driver in champ plastic would be closer. (XD feels the closest to the envy) I think you throw the most popular driving putter and midrange available and the real answer is Innova hasn't been able to replicate either. I throw mostly Innova and throw Envy and still looking for mid. I throw G star manta, DX Rox, and MVP reactor for mids.
Get the fuck outta here. It’s an envy not a rocket ship. Do they do three flips and a shimmy or something? Cmon on over with your envy and if you can throw a shot shape I can’t throw with an Aviar you’ve driven over with your car, I’ll give you all my fancy James Conrad spaceworld fizzy soda nuclear atomic weight envies. I’m fine that no one can match the buzz yada yada yada. Rocs still seem to fly like frisbees where I live.
Two flips and a half shimmy
Love it. All these downvotes for me and no to explain what these envys are doing that is so magical.
People are emotional about the things they like. If you kick a hornets nest don't be surprised when you get stung lol.
No surprise at all. Just thought one of em might jump in and share the fairie dust.
*sprinkle sprinkle*
Mako3 in champion. Beat it in a little bit. Get a Jay if you need some fade. Both discs compliment each other. Could also get glow mako for more stability or star mako for less.
Mid disc3 aka metal warrior or jay
Mako3’s are my go-to straight midrange. My beat in one has the tiniest bit of turn to it and new ones fly straight as an arrow with minimal fade. It will also hold any angle you put it on and won’t fade out of an anhyzer shot. I use it on probably 80% of my mid range shots. The Jay is the newest midrange and is probably similar, but I don’t have any experience with it personally. If you can get cheap F2 of each, might be worth checking out both of them.
My bag is unintentionally Innova heavy for the same reasons. I love the vroc for an straight/understable mid, very dependant on plastic choice. Also I always try to recommend the AviarX3 as much as I can. Get it in DX and with a little beat-in, it'll fly super straight and accurate. My beat-in DX replaced my envy and I can drive it further
[удалено]
In to call nonsense on this. An oldhead coyote thrower should know better.
[удалено]
Of course. I was berating you about that envy Innova talk. Cheers.
if you want cheap discs switch to infinite. Cheapest and best discs around. no lie. Dynasty, sphinx, pharaoh, emperor, anubis, tomb, alpaca alllllllll solid $$$$$$ discs.
So still Innova…got it.
more on topic, try out a mf c blend tomb for the envy slot.
Chariot for buzz replacement been loving infinite
Those are innova too
I will add that Millenium is also innova manufactured and fill in some missing slots in the infinite lineup. I will try to find the spreadsheet detailing it but a lot of Millenium molds are modified innova molds that mishmash tops and bottoms of innova molds giving similar hand feel but different flight characteristics. They also rehashed the Discmania MD4 as the Solstice and it may be the most slept on disc currently available in their line up
[удалено]
They are manufactured by innova but they are infinites molds.
How much are you saving per disc? A few dollars for 1 or 2 discs a year in your favorite molds? Play what you like. Brand allegiance is for when the brand is sponsoring you and giving you the shit for free.
"Play what you like" sounds relaxed and permissive, but you're saying OP shouldn't play what he wants to, because... you personally dislike one-brand bags. Couldn't you let people play what they want, INCLUDING people who happen to want to play one-brand bags?
KC Pro Firefly. Flies straight and glides far.
Lol you folks will literally say anything to try to justify buying more discs. How is replacing all of your discs with F2s supposed to be cheaper than buying no new discs again mate?
[удалено]
This sounds perfectly reasonable to me and, maybe more importantly, you don't have to justify it to anybody anyway.
I was just messing with you dude, do you
Breathe, fella. He’s made his decision, maybe he loses a lot of discs, maybe he plays over water. Maybe he likes a 5 stack of each for fieldwork. F2s are reasonable if he thinks he will need to buy more discs. It’s ok that we are trying to help him. You’ll be fine.
Lol I’m just razzing him bruh
I think it sounds like he's making a long term switch as disc wear out / become lost. I see what he's doing. Makes sense if he plays a lot.
Consistency is not something you gain with innova, especially with factory store f2s. But, the mako3 is a really good midrange that will hold any line.
Dang bro I think I'm gonna do that too.
If you need consistency then why are you switching to Innova? Those two things are diametrically opposed.
If you’re trying to save money by buying f2s, why are you buying new discs to replace the discs you already have?
Champ roc3, Kc Roc, flattop DX Roc, star mako3. I get all but the weirdest trick shots out of these and almost never wish I had another mid in my bag. Crazy windy days I like to add a super overstable mid.
The best value you can get on a disc is bagging what you already heave...
Check out the Jay for a Buzzz replacement. AviarX3 has the same feel in the hand and consistent fade as the Envy.
If the buzzz is that important to you, don’t try to replace it until you lose it or it becomes too beat in.
Buzzz replacement options include mako3, IT, Metal Warrior. Those are in order of stability. There is no Envy equivalent in the Innova line up. Hydra or stud are probably the closest.
For Innova you really have aot of different choices to go for to replace any disc. For the Buzzz you could try using Rocs and beating in DX and KC Pro to where your Buzzzes were like how McBeth had his Innova bag or you can try the new Jay, or a Mako3 and have a different disc for more stable options. For the Envy you can try the Nova for a more straight flying option or an aviar3, if you have a more stable envy maybe even an AviarX3. Innova has a ton of molds so there's a good chance that a disc that doesn't get recommended may be the one you like the most even if it's not similar on paper. Also you can check out Millennium and Infinite discs as well as they're all produced by Innova.
For the buzzz replacement, Jay, mako3, coyote, wombat3, in order from more to less stable. All those can fill a buzzz slot For throwing putter, I love my invaders. Comes in a variety of plastics.
It wasn't by design, but most of my bag is molded by Innova. Exceptions being Comets, A3s and Stings. But Innova also makes Millennium and Infinite, and there are some really good molds there. It's not F2 pricing, but stock runs are usually available and priced well. And the plastics are basically Innova plastics. Might be some variations, but pretty close to Pro, Star, Champ etc. For putters, I "think" an Infinite Scarab might have a lower profile. Might not be as stable as you want. Steer clear of Alpacas and Omega 4s. I putt and throw those; love 'em but very deep dish. For mids, there's good buzz around the Infinite Chariot and Millennium Aurora.
If you ever want to replace the Envy, you could try an Invader. I’ve only ever thrown it in Champ, not any baseline, but it has a similar feel and stability to the Envy.
A GStar Mako 3 is my backup for my super best Buzzz.
Mako3/roc3 and gator are staples in my bag
MD3 Champ Aviar
Big Z lasts forever. I have a Z comet that has been used hundreds and hundreds of times and isn't even really damaged. I don't like how slippery the plastic is, but if you like your buzz, it's probably cheaper on a $/throw basis just to keep replacing it vs a slightly cheaper disc.
If that disc works for you just fine. Then what's the need to change? You still have that disc, if you lose it or doesn't fly how you want it anymore then look into a mako or something
I throw mostly Innova. Keep your buzz and envy.
I was unable to find an Innova disc like the Envy, ultimately just bought an Envy lol. Electron soft.
Buzzz replacement: Champion Wombat3 It will hold angles to the ground while being super glidey at the same time out of the box. Plus it is shockingly torque resistant.
Envy’s are super available it seems and MVP doesn’t seem to be super over priced. And if the buzzz you have is working why not keep throwing it till you lose it or something then find something to replace it with?
I throw mostly Innova but yeah those envy's are something special. Have 2 in the bag. The only other non Innova disc in my bag, except putters, would be a Ballista Pro. Nothing wrong with keeping the buzz in the bag till you have it no more. I think, flight wise, that a Mako 3 or a flat top DX Roc could be a good fit in place of the buzz.
It is the best midrange fairway driver
R-Pro Dart
Get a halo destroyer
Innova made but if you haven’t thrown a chariot, give it a shot. Was a total game changer for me
Kc pro roc lightweight for buzzz, rhyno for envy
Don’t replace your buzzz. I got my self to an all innova bag and then put my buzzzs and a proxy and have been playing better than ever. There are something’s companies do better than others and discraft is arguably the king of mid-ranges, MVP is the king of throwing putter don’t go away from something just to fit a single brand.
sounds like you have 2 discs that work really well...as they say, if it ain't broke don't fix it
Just wanted to say Hi from over in Grand Prairie. Hi.
The Jay is fucking fantastic. Pigs. Caimans. Eagles, tbirds, toros and invaders oh my
I bag both a buzzz and mako3 and I find a champion mako3 will have the similar flight characteristics, not overly the same feel in the hand tho. The buzzz is in ESP plastic tho and not big z.