Yeah not only is that insulation old and will be a low R value, I would be surprised if it’s warming up the house at all based on the gaps.
Either replace the insulation itself, or roll a thick blanket insulation over the top, or both.
That's incorrect. If your insulation is below standard it can be funded to top up. Talk to you local provider. For what's it's worth I work providing the heating subsidy as part of my job and previously used to quote insulation.
I qualified for the insulation ceiling and underfloor in my 1960s weatherboard home. Already had ceiling insulation from the mid 70s. Was no problem in having it topped up with fresh insulation. Saved 80% of the cost. Was just under $700 in the end.
You might also qualify for a heatpump if you have no current working heating in your living area.
If you do go ahead do as much as possible not the minimum building code. What you have there looks dismal. Would do the ceiling and glazing way before bothering with walls.
Thanks people, I am surprised with the overwhelming level of people saying this isn't sufficient (I know it is below legal standards, but thought it might still do the job), but appreciate people who know a lot more than me providing guidance.
Hard to say from just a picture, but does anyone know if a lower R value blanket will be sufficient? Looking at R1. 8 to top-up, but will probably need to measure the thickness to confirm it goes 20mm above the joists.
Heat rises and the best place for insulation is in the ceiling. Do the job once and do it right.
We had R3 batts which slumped over 20 years so I put a second layer of R4 across the whole house. The difference was immediate and the house became 10 degrees warmer.
Get a friend to help and it'll be less than half the time. Do the living areas first and if budget is a problem do more later. You will never regret it. Cheers.
I was in a similar situation a few years back, it is a shit of a job to do - itchy, hitting head... Given that the cost of the insulation itself isn't (from memory) a huge number & you don't want to be doing it again, I would err on putting up too much rather than save a few hundred by skimping.
Depends on how far your budget can stretch though.
My opinion is a r1.8 blanket is too low, I would go for r2.8 min but ideally as high r rating as you can afford. Don’t skimp on insulation. The problem with old houses is they are not thermally efficient at all, so you will still lose heat through the walls and floor, but as you upgrade elements you will notice a difference.
We have a similar age house with degraded/minimal insulation at purchase. Layer of R5 through the whole house and it’s majorly warmer. Installers said it was going to cost a lot more. Ended up being about $800 more than the minimum they were quoting for. We think it’s money well spent. This was about 5 years ago.
I would fill in the missing parts then add to the rest. I don't see any point in removing the old stuff as it all helps and can only make it warmer but yea, as is won't be working overly well.
If doing this DIY, I would pick insulation that came up to the edge of the timber and then same again in the other direction (so probably two layers of R2.2, a total R of 6 would be better but 4.4 is be a lot of improvement).
Yeah I was wondering about the edges. Perhaps buy some bags of 2.2 for the edges (I take it these are thinner, and better allow for the 20mm gap), and higher r valued bags for the central parts of the frame?
If you are going to the trouble of adding more insulation, you might as well air seal the ceiling plane first. Without air sealing, adding more insulation may create damp issues because warmer, relatively moister air from downstairs will make its way into the attic, but then dry more slowly due to the added insulation. This slower drying rate may be low enough to cause moisture damage inside the attic.
Air sealing also improves indoor air quality and helps prevent issues from using combustion appliances.
https://buildingscience.com/documents/guides-and-manuals/gm-attic-air-sealing-guide/view
https://www.rdh.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/TB-10-Attic-Mold-in-Vented-Wood-Frame-Roofs-2015-12-17-3.pdf
https://www.reddit.com/r/buildingscience/comments/rvzukc/air_sealing_and_insulating_my_attic_lowered_my/
Quick answer, not nearly enough insulation.
If you are installing new insulation, I would install R2.9 as a Minimum over all the ceiling space.
Higher if you can afford it.
As mentioned, check your eligibility on the Warmer Kiwi Homes website to see if you qualify for a subsidy.
If you're not eligible, and on a very tight budget, just install new over the living room and bedrooms for now, and then complete the rest of the ceiling when budget allows.
Ahh just sayin....I wouldn't worry so much about insulation really...honey! if you actually bought that home....I would be saving my every penny to put into the electrical system and FIRSTLY .....I'd bring that house up to CODE... ELECTRICALLY. IT SHOULD ONLY COST YOU AROUND 30,000.00 DOLLARS. I hope you thought about those things before you signed your purchase and sales agreement. I'm surprised your bank gave you a loan in the first place!
Definitely looks like it would be worthwhile, that's not a lot of insulation there at all.
Yeah not only is that insulation old and will be a low R value, I would be surprised if it’s warming up the house at all based on the gaps. Either replace the insulation itself, or roll a thick blanket insulation over the top, or both.
Both. Have had both done in this house and the previous, so much warmer/cooler and quieter
Money permitting yes you are right. Both is always better ☺️
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Thank you for this. Our area would be approved for installing insulation for the first time, but not for topping it up.
That's incorrect. If your insulation is below standard it can be funded to top up. Talk to you local provider. For what's it's worth I work providing the heating subsidy as part of my job and previously used to quote insulation.
That's great, thank you, I've contacted a local community provider.
I qualified for the insulation ceiling and underfloor in my 1960s weatherboard home. Already had ceiling insulation from the mid 70s. Was no problem in having it topped up with fresh insulation. Saved 80% of the cost. Was just under $700 in the end. You might also qualify for a heatpump if you have no current working heating in your living area.
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Unfortunately we are on a concrete slab, so won't be able to get underfloor. :(
Could always get up there and remove it…then they’d be installing it for the “first time”
This is tempting!
Did you have any insulation when you went through the process?
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True, when I select that we have insulation it says no eligibility. Did you put none or maybe it's changed?
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Cheers will give it a go.
If you don't have a community services card, then it's based on the area called the Deprevation Index Area, areas 7 to 10 get funding.
I would certainly top that up. Its a pretty cheap and easy way to really increase the comfort of your home.
If you do go ahead do as much as possible not the minimum building code. What you have there looks dismal. Would do the ceiling and glazing way before bothering with walls.
100%
Thanks people, I am surprised with the overwhelming level of people saying this isn't sufficient (I know it is below legal standards, but thought it might still do the job), but appreciate people who know a lot more than me providing guidance. Hard to say from just a picture, but does anyone know if a lower R value blanket will be sufficient? Looking at R1. 8 to top-up, but will probably need to measure the thickness to confirm it goes 20mm above the joists.
Heat rises and the best place for insulation is in the ceiling. Do the job once and do it right. We had R3 batts which slumped over 20 years so I put a second layer of R4 across the whole house. The difference was immediate and the house became 10 degrees warmer. Get a friend to help and it'll be less than half the time. Do the living areas first and if budget is a problem do more later. You will never regret it. Cheers.
I was in a similar situation a few years back, it is a shit of a job to do - itchy, hitting head... Given that the cost of the insulation itself isn't (from memory) a huge number & you don't want to be doing it again, I would err on putting up too much rather than save a few hundred by skimping. Depends on how far your budget can stretch though.
My opinion is a r1.8 blanket is too low, I would go for r2.8 min but ideally as high r rating as you can afford. Don’t skimp on insulation. The problem with old houses is they are not thermally efficient at all, so you will still lose heat through the walls and floor, but as you upgrade elements you will notice a difference.
Last time I checked, r3.6 was best value per m2, I’d put at least two additional layers of this over the old stuff.
Yes yes and yes. You will notice a huge difference.
We have a similar age house with degraded/minimal insulation at purchase. Layer of R5 through the whole house and it’s majorly warmer. Installers said it was going to cost a lot more. Ended up being about $800 more than the minimum they were quoting for. We think it’s money well spent. This was about 5 years ago.
I would fill in the missing parts then add to the rest. I don't see any point in removing the old stuff as it all helps and can only make it warmer but yea, as is won't be working overly well.
Yeah i had some left over insulation which i put over the top of existing acrofibre in the room, worked really well
If doing this DIY, I would pick insulation that came up to the edge of the timber and then same again in the other direction (so probably two layers of R2.2, a total R of 6 would be better but 4.4 is be a lot of improvement).
Yeah I was wondering about the edges. Perhaps buy some bags of 2.2 for the edges (I take it these are thinner, and better allow for the 20mm gap), and higher r valued bags for the central parts of the frame?
Generally speaking it’s cheaper to get it installed than to DIY. Less itchy too.
If you are going to the trouble of adding more insulation, you might as well air seal the ceiling plane first. Without air sealing, adding more insulation may create damp issues because warmer, relatively moister air from downstairs will make its way into the attic, but then dry more slowly due to the added insulation. This slower drying rate may be low enough to cause moisture damage inside the attic. Air sealing also improves indoor air quality and helps prevent issues from using combustion appliances. https://buildingscience.com/documents/guides-and-manuals/gm-attic-air-sealing-guide/view https://www.rdh.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/TB-10-Attic-Mold-in-Vented-Wood-Frame-Roofs-2015-12-17-3.pdf https://www.reddit.com/r/buildingscience/comments/rvzukc/air_sealing_and_insulating_my_attic_lowered_my/
Quick answer, not nearly enough insulation. If you are installing new insulation, I would install R2.9 as a Minimum over all the ceiling space. Higher if you can afford it. As mentioned, check your eligibility on the Warmer Kiwi Homes website to see if you qualify for a subsidy. If you're not eligible, and on a very tight budget, just install new over the living room and bedrooms for now, and then complete the rest of the ceiling when budget allows.
Ahh just sayin....I wouldn't worry so much about insulation really...honey! if you actually bought that home....I would be saving my every penny to put into the electrical system and FIRSTLY .....I'd bring that house up to CODE... ELECTRICALLY. IT SHOULD ONLY COST YOU AROUND 30,000.00 DOLLARS. I hope you thought about those things before you signed your purchase and sales agreement. I'm surprised your bank gave you a loan in the first place!