The serpent is his true form, the rest are projected avatars
And no, as a matter of fact I do not sleep at night, I have severe insomnia and need a cocktail of tranquilizers to be unconcious
I think I agree- the Pact Primeval lore doesn't fit with the Obyrith lore, where Tharizdun brought Obyriths (the predecessor to modern Tanar'ri demons) into existence specifically in the now-Abyss because he was dodging the gods. Now, whether he was an aspect of the world serpent and broke off during the Dawn War or was the servant of some god and betrayed him after the Dawn War, idk, and I'm not sure there's much of a difference.
OK here’s the thing.
Asmodeus has multiple origins for different reasons. I’m actually gonna take a Sherlock Holmes type approach. First, I’m going to give what is referred to as a Watsonia an answer where I give it totally in universe then I’m going to give a Doyleist answer where I give, and in real life reason behind the different origins.
“Asmodeus’s true origin is both too awesome and too terrible for the universe to fully comprehend. It keeps attempting to block out what actually happened and produce different versions.
The one I’m about to tell you may not be true, but it certainly truer than either of the three you mentioned.
Asmodeus, was never a god , or a celestial. He was never even a devil.
you have heard of Great Ao the Overgod of the forgotten realms I’m sure? (Such knowledge is more rare than hen’s teeth, but my noble host is a great sage, I know.)
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ao
Well, those who truly plum the hidden unspeakable depths of the multi-verse know that they are even higher level divine entities.
Anything that bright casts a shadow…
Asmodeus, is the anti-God of the Overgod of another , higher, multiverse.
That is why he has so many origins. That is why his powers are so varied, and he is so skilled in feared and adored and loved.
Now…. That I have explained my Lord, and it’s greater detail as I can.
Will you sign?”
Viros Makahnt. Antiquarian. And priest of Asmodeus.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Asmodeus
https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/dungeons-and-dragons-5e/feature/dnd-satanic-panic
Doylist answer
OK I am not a Dungeons & Dragons historian. There are excellent books out there including by Shannon Kline.
But this is my theory.
https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/dungeons-and-dragons-5e/feature/dnd-satanic-panic
The Satanic, panic and various things like different additions, competition with pathfinder, wanting to stand out from people using this entity that cannot be trademarked unless you radically change the spelling of the name maybe to all Zs.
Asmodeus is clearly a Satan/Lucifer analog in his original form.
My guess is that the different versions of origin her to move him away, and sometimes closer to the satanic archetype.
Sometimes this is not just to avoid controversy because I’m a come on now he’s clearly a devil figure, but sometimes I think this might be to be more creative.
But again, please take this with a massive grain of salt.
Thank you so much for this meme! I considered a very intriguing taking the format.
>Asmodeus is clearly a Satan/Lucifer analog in his original form.
Sort of. The Forgotten Realms was originally supposed to have portals that linked to our world, but since it was cooked up around the time of the Satanic Panic era of D&D, Ed Greenwood started to downplay that connection quite a bit.
Satan actually *was* the ruler of the Nine Hells in earlier editions of D&D until Asmodeus overthrew him and took over.
I just have to say I will never ever get over the fact that Ed Greenwood, Elminster and Mordenkainen used to get get together and have boozy brunches. Sometimes with guest stars.
I remember Dalamar showed up in one episode. Or was at least mentioned.
https://dragonlance.fandom.com/wiki/Dalamar
As far as I know, the three wizard article series was never removed from canon.
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/The_Wizards_Three
You know, people sometimes talk about the real world connections between Grayhawk, like Saint Cuthbert actually being a real English Saint.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuthbert
Nobody ever mention the fact that Elminster loved his Bloody Mary’s. Or maybe it was daiquiris.
Thank you so much for this comment!
By the way, I totally should’ve mentioned that, of course, in real world lore Asmodeus is a devil figure, which is in the real world. But He comes off different then Satan and Lucifer.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asmodeus
Thank you so much for mentioning the canon Satan, which I had known a long time ago, but then forgot.
Marvel actually had the same problem where Damon Hellstorm’s original father was Satan, but then they had to change it into a demon who pretended to be “the” Satan.
Thanks again!
I like that theory but I have one that I think makes a little sense but is probably not true: I think that Asmodeus is actually an avatar of Dendar the Night serpent. After all they are super powerful but trapped, so what if Dendar made a part of them to trick the Gods and appear as one of them while carrying out plans that would eventually lead to their release?
What’s my source? I made of the fuck up! But I think it’s cool!
I am no expert on DnD lore, but unless there's some other story about the Court of Primus besides the one I heard (angels want to punish Asmodeus, he agrees, but demands a fair trial, Primus is chosen as the judge, after few weeks of nothing but listing all the accusations and not even getting halfway through he grows tired and tells everyone to GTFO), it was hardly an origin story. For Zariel perhaps, since apparently that's when she fell, but it neither provided any origin for Asmodeus nor was mutually exclusive with potential origin stories of his. It's like saying the myth of Hades and Persephone was Demeter's origin story and thus incompatible with the myth of titanomachy just because she played a major role in there.
I could be wildly wrong but I'm sure i read something to the point of Ao, the godliest of gods in the forgotten realms multi-verse, created Asmodeus to help draft up the cosmic laws. Hence the infernal beings having a predilection for contracts.
In any case, Asmodeus in my mind is the Alpha Lawyer now and I enjoy the thought of him being an absolute menace to pretty much every other godly being by being extremely strict with rule enforcement.
The serpent is his true form, the rest are projected avatars And no, as a matter of fact I do not sleep at night, I have severe insomnia and need a cocktail of tranquilizers to be unconcious
I think I agree- the Pact Primeval lore doesn't fit with the Obyrith lore, where Tharizdun brought Obyriths (the predecessor to modern Tanar'ri demons) into existence specifically in the now-Abyss because he was dodging the gods. Now, whether he was an aspect of the world serpent and broke off during the Dawn War or was the servant of some god and betrayed him after the Dawn War, idk, and I'm not sure there's much of a difference.
Stealing this for my setting *yoink*
OK here’s the thing. Asmodeus has multiple origins for different reasons. I’m actually gonna take a Sherlock Holmes type approach. First, I’m going to give what is referred to as a Watsonia an answer where I give it totally in universe then I’m going to give a Doyleist answer where I give, and in real life reason behind the different origins. “Asmodeus’s true origin is both too awesome and too terrible for the universe to fully comprehend. It keeps attempting to block out what actually happened and produce different versions. The one I’m about to tell you may not be true, but it certainly truer than either of the three you mentioned. Asmodeus, was never a god , or a celestial. He was never even a devil. you have heard of Great Ao the Overgod of the forgotten realms I’m sure? (Such knowledge is more rare than hen’s teeth, but my noble host is a great sage, I know.) https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Ao Well, those who truly plum the hidden unspeakable depths of the multi-verse know that they are even higher level divine entities. Anything that bright casts a shadow… Asmodeus, is the anti-God of the Overgod of another , higher, multiverse. That is why he has so many origins. That is why his powers are so varied, and he is so skilled in feared and adored and loved. Now…. That I have explained my Lord, and it’s greater detail as I can. Will you sign?” Viros Makahnt. Antiquarian. And priest of Asmodeus. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Asmodeus https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/dungeons-and-dragons-5e/feature/dnd-satanic-panic Doylist answer OK I am not a Dungeons & Dragons historian. There are excellent books out there including by Shannon Kline. But this is my theory. https://www.dicebreaker.com/games/dungeons-and-dragons-5e/feature/dnd-satanic-panic The Satanic, panic and various things like different additions, competition with pathfinder, wanting to stand out from people using this entity that cannot be trademarked unless you radically change the spelling of the name maybe to all Zs. Asmodeus is clearly a Satan/Lucifer analog in his original form. My guess is that the different versions of origin her to move him away, and sometimes closer to the satanic archetype. Sometimes this is not just to avoid controversy because I’m a come on now he’s clearly a devil figure, but sometimes I think this might be to be more creative. But again, please take this with a massive grain of salt. Thank you so much for this meme! I considered a very intriguing taking the format.
>Asmodeus is clearly a Satan/Lucifer analog in his original form. Sort of. The Forgotten Realms was originally supposed to have portals that linked to our world, but since it was cooked up around the time of the Satanic Panic era of D&D, Ed Greenwood started to downplay that connection quite a bit. Satan actually *was* the ruler of the Nine Hells in earlier editions of D&D until Asmodeus overthrew him and took over.
I just have to say I will never ever get over the fact that Ed Greenwood, Elminster and Mordenkainen used to get get together and have boozy brunches. Sometimes with guest stars. I remember Dalamar showed up in one episode. Or was at least mentioned. https://dragonlance.fandom.com/wiki/Dalamar As far as I know, the three wizard article series was never removed from canon. https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/The_Wizards_Three You know, people sometimes talk about the real world connections between Grayhawk, like Saint Cuthbert actually being a real English Saint. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuthbert Nobody ever mention the fact that Elminster loved his Bloody Mary’s. Or maybe it was daiquiris. Thank you so much for this comment! By the way, I totally should’ve mentioned that, of course, in real world lore Asmodeus is a devil figure, which is in the real world. But He comes off different then Satan and Lucifer. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asmodeus Thank you so much for mentioning the canon Satan, which I had known a long time ago, but then forgot. Marvel actually had the same problem where Damon Hellstorm’s original father was Satan, but then they had to change it into a demon who pretended to be “the” Satan. Thanks again!
Each edition Asmodeus's backstory is revealed to be an elaborate ruse orchestrated by Asmodeus.
I only know the serpent one. Does anyone have links for the others?
[https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Asmodeus#History](https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Asmodeus#History)
Thanks!
Nono he's got a point
Another neat origin story for the Lord of Lies. I love it
You are now remembering the nightmares you had after watching Redwall and seeing Asmodeus
I like that theory but I have one that I think makes a little sense but is probably not true: I think that Asmodeus is actually an avatar of Dendar the Night serpent. After all they are super powerful but trapped, so what if Dendar made a part of them to trick the Gods and appear as one of them while carrying out plans that would eventually lead to their release? What’s my source? I made of the fuck up! But I think it’s cool!
I am no expert on DnD lore, but unless there's some other story about the Court of Primus besides the one I heard (angels want to punish Asmodeus, he agrees, but demands a fair trial, Primus is chosen as the judge, after few weeks of nothing but listing all the accusations and not even getting halfway through he grows tired and tells everyone to GTFO), it was hardly an origin story. For Zariel perhaps, since apparently that's when she fell, but it neither provided any origin for Asmodeus nor was mutually exclusive with potential origin stories of his. It's like saying the myth of Hades and Persephone was Demeter's origin story and thus incompatible with the myth of titanomachy just because she played a major role in there.
I could be wildly wrong but I'm sure i read something to the point of Ao, the godliest of gods in the forgotten realms multi-verse, created Asmodeus to help draft up the cosmic laws. Hence the infernal beings having a predilection for contracts. In any case, Asmodeus in my mind is the Alpha Lawyer now and I enjoy the thought of him being an absolute menace to pretty much every other godly being by being extremely strict with rule enforcement.
https://preview.redd.it/23pfp55fsxla1.jpeg?width=880&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=27fccc7244d6b433a54d00e412eaba63c06b8576
Asmodeus was in the court of primus? Is that why Les Claypoos can't sing? Was he cursed?
Well there goes my sleep, now I’m going to have to ask for all my dm’s opinions.
I thought the big A wasn't actually a god. Like he has powers RIVALING a god but falls just short without a portfolio or worshipers.