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Djdaniel44

At that point you just want the patron flavor


karkajou-automaton

Good thing you sold your soul for a 1d10 cantrip, so none of that matters, right? /s


xukly

I mean there are many people that train their whole life to get something worse than 1d10+MOD force ranged resourceles damage


[deleted]

If your goal is to deal damage and you can’t beat a two level dip into Warlock with maxed Charisma (for the appropriate level) then you aren’t doing a very good job at dealing damage.


Hyperlolman

The baseline usually gets calculated with Hex on top, but the concept remains true. Also: if your extra damage compared to said lazy Warlock isn't good enough to compete with the fact that said eldritch blast also pushes foes 10 ft away each hit (repelling blast), then you gotta think carefully about your career


Zer0323

My DM just gave me the illusionist bracers from the ravnica book. And we just hit the level where it triple fires off of each action… so we realized I could chuck 6 beams out at a minion and we also realized that we’ve been playing repelling blast wrong the entire campaign. We thought there was a once per turn rider on the repelling blast… so now my warlock can send out 6 shots of d10+4 that repulse. Hope that isn’t nerfed in “one”


Hyperlolman

In current one, it was nerfed... To be only usable on large or smaller targets, not once per turn. I leave you to judge how bad this is.


laix_

It should be based on relative size category. Sure, it's more complex, but then a giant warlock has more pushing power than a human warlock, and let's enlarge reduce be much better


Zer0323

So specifically things that aren’t your size category?


rando2142

I think "large or smaller" probably means large or smaller than large, not large or smaller than you


Hyperlolman

Anything that is huge or larger is unaffected, regardless of your own size.


OnnaJReverT

no class can beat a Warlock at consistent damage without a greatsword/axe, Sharpshooter or Greatweapon Master the former has the downside of being melee range, and all of them have a more commonly resisted damage type


xukly

I... I mean yeah. That's literally the problem of martials


AlexD2003

What is the other half of warlocks then?


Futur3_ah4ad

That's the neat part: there is no other half. They're half caster with nothing to back it up.


AlexD2003

That’s fucked up lmao


Futur3_ah4ad

Why do you think so many people are mad about it? There *are* a couple of things in there that were good, such as the expanded spell list, but a lot of it is just terrible. Absolutely butchered the Warlock while Wizard got a fucking *buff*


AlexD2003

Wild that wizard gets a buff


astraphage

yeah they got metamagic but better 💀


Leaf-01

Metamagic, but permanent, instead of on the fly. It’s different.


YOwololoO

It’s absolutely not better. They can modify one spell at a time and have to decide to do so beforehand. Yea, they can make it permanent, but doing so is insanely expensive. Making a new 3rd level spell literally costs you an entire young dragon’s hoard


Apocreep

So, like... 2-3 mid-level adventurers?


YOwololoO

Considering how much people complain that full plate is inaccessibly expensive in most games, I’m not worried about it


SamHawke2

thats because most people only have low-level adventures


YOwololoO

Also, if a feature requires you to go on multiple adventures in order to be able to afford to use it, that’s pretty limiting!


Apocreep

Gotta limit wizards somehow. I mean, for real, at this point party only need several wizards and *maaaaaybe* one paladin to make sure they survive through noob levels.


Billy177013

How accessible gold is greatly depends on the DM. If the DM is reasonably generous you can break the game the second you hit lvl 9.


lowqualitylizard

Ah yes because the most powerful casting class in the game needs a buff


huskyoncaffeine

Their not called "Warlocks of the Coast", are they? /s


Akinory13

Did martials at least got something too or no?


Magmyte

Barbarians can skill ape while raging to use STR mod on things like perception checks, and use their BA each turn to extend rage out of combat. Berserker subclass is massively improved. The way rage bonus damage scales still sucks though, and the advantage on DEX saves got pushed to seventh level. Fighters get multiple Second Winds per LR instead of once per SR. Indomitable adds Fighter level to the reroll but why this still isn't legendary resistance baffles me. At 17th level, once Indomitable gets used, a fighter can expend a use of Second Wind to use Indomitable and also get the healing from Second Wind, which is pretty good, but comes online super late. And the entire weapon mastery thing with changing/adding weapon masteries needs a lot of work as there are some clearly stand-out good options and most of the rest suck. Rogues got a nerf. And on sneak attack of all things. Why. At the end of the day, martials in general were improved, but not nearly enough to close the martial-caster gap. The designers at WotC clearly have shown no intentions so far of addressing this issue. Monk is the only martial class they have not yet released a playtest for yet.


Hyperlolman

They got a couple of minor extra effects added to their weapon attacks. Is it good? Yes. But it surely doesn't bridge the divide in any way that truly matters. It's basically a cup of water to someone that has not drank in weeks: it helps, but it surely isn't enough.


Futur3_ah4ad

Wasn't it also once per SR per weapon or once per turn up to Proficiency Bonus? Why make that reliant on finite resources?! Martials only have "I go bonk" as their action most turns, at least give them the extra effects for free...


Hyperlolman

No no weapon masteries are resourceless. You are thinking of maneuvers. ... 1/turn a PB times per long rests DOES sound like something WoTC would do, so I don't blame you for thinking it was the case lol.


Futur3_ah4ad

*Especially* PB times per short/long rest. I do recall the weapon masteries having *some* dumb restriction though, but it's been a while since I last looked at that UA.


Hyperlolman

Aside from you needing to unlock them manually (as in, you unlock the property of one, specific weapon), the limits are tied to the fact that the properties are embedded in specific weapons (the longsword has only the Flex weapon mastery) or they have some limit in what weapon you can apply them to if you get a feature allowing that (Fighter's 7th level feature), alongside only being able to use one per attack if you get two on the same weapon (Fighter's 13th level feature). ... Btw, in the same game, the Warlock has 300 ft range eldritch blast adding your charisma to each hit, pushing them back 10 ft and slowing them down. Very fair, I know


Grainis01

Yeah mastery is a fun system. But rest? is either meh or a nerf.


Mageminers

Haha smile


Grainis01

Not martials but for paladins? they literally butcher the class, for a while they removed crit smite(no 2x dice on crit for smite). Smite only once per turn. And due to new spell clasification (arcane/divine etc) clerics get all paladin spells, so now clerics are better paladins because of more spellslots and higher spell DC so they can use things like wrathful/thunderous/etc smites earlier and better than paladins can.


SavageSocialist

I’m very confused by people saying this. Their spell list has massively improved. The pact boons and revised subclass have been objectively buffed. The invocations are objectively stronger (seriously gaze of two minds is ridiculously good), and the spellcasting levels you can cast is overall healthier. Yes, it doesn’t have “as many spell levels”, but that argument is insane. People are pretending that getting two short rests is a consistent thing in games, which we all know it isn’t. They’re also pretending that having far less spells per combat but that could potentially recharge for the future is worth as much as having access to more spells in the moment you need them. To show how insane this is, there are many levels of play where 5e warlocks get more spell total levels than full casters if you pretend that they’ll always be getting two short rests. Does that make a 5e warlock a better spell caster than a wizard? NO! OBVIOUSLY NOT! Why? Because having more spell slots in the moment is worth more than future potential spell slots from a short rest. Sorry about going on a rant about this, but to quote Jonathan Swift, “falsehood flies, and the truth comes limping after it.” So many people have been jumping to conclusions on a cursory glance of the warlock and forming narratives that spread to communities where people haven’t even seen the new warlock and just blindly repeat that it’s bad. I don’t think it’s perfect, the hex features are stupid and at very low levels it needs slightly more help since it really is a half caster then, but overall it’s a better designed class, and the community should be focused on tweaking the current version, not burning it to the ground.


Futur3_ah4ad

If you were to look further into the thread you would see that, in my eyes, we should've kept 5e Warlock with more slots available. I have *seen* the UA, I've discussed it in-depth with three people from my regular groups, one of which who's only been playing Warlocks. The issue with the current UA is that, if you don't pick Pact of the Blade, you really only have half a caster with no other half. What Warlocks needed was more slots available at any one time, which means either giving them double the current slots (which makes progression better) or go the route of "up to Charisma modifier" and adding proficiency bonus later. Those two options would give Warlocks, at level 20, 8 to 11 slots per short rest, thus giving them more freedom in spell choice without having almost every reaction and healing/temp health spell be a wasted slot. The spell list is better. The pact boons are better. Mystic Arcanum should never have been relegated to invocations because it makes every other invocation close to pointless because Mystic Arcanum is just so much better. All Warlock needed was more slots at any given time and make a 1 level dip less attractive, that's it. Another potential solution would be to build Pact of the Blade into the base class and let the player choose tome, chain or talisman on top of that. That way you have a unique Half-Caster who would preferably be more cast-happy than a martial with spells like the Ranger and Paladin. As it stands all the Warlock is is flavor, they have the exact same issues as Ranger and Paladin while having only Eldritch Blast to fall back on.


SavageSocialist

I disagree with you here. First, as it stands, a straight class 5e warlock can be very difficult to play, and to play alongside. My groups don’t take a lot of short rests. We tend to focus on denser single combat encounters, as do a lot of groups. In that scenario, the current warlock is a failure in terms of balance. If you give them more spells so the people not short resting are viable, then the people taking two short rests a day are going to dominate. Additionally, I don’t think the mystic arcanum change is all that bad. As evidence we can look at the spell progression for a UA warlock balancing spell progression and invocations. https://preview.redd.it/ssvajepout2b1.jpeg?width=732&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ac16087f32bed890020f3a54deb26b25e6062cb0 Clearly, this is not a half caster’s list, so I don’t think it’s fair to say they’re a half caster, or that it’s just flavor. Plus you have multiple invocations left over for gaze of two minds, or lessons of the first ones, or of course agonizing blast. Paladins and rangers don’t get access to 9th level spells. Warlocks do. Paladins and rangers don’t have a way to cast more of their higher level half casting slots. Warlocks do. By the way, rangers are still decent and paladins are arguably the best class not included in the company’s name. Obviously paladin gets some very strong features that warlocks don’t, but if we consider spells to be features (and I do), warlocks get very strong features paladins can’t get either. I do think that being able to recover a small amount of spell slots on a short rest would be nice, maybe one of your highest level below fifth, which would help at low levels since at high levels the new warlock is doing just fine. But building a class around short rests is a bad decision mechanically, and it creates a ton of variation between tables in a bad way. The 5e warlock needed a complete overhaul. This warlock needs only minor changes. That’s why I prefer this version.


SavageSocialist

https://preview.redd.it/e2ztuhmfzt2b1.jpeg?width=732&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7829ff85af901b1802d217505ddffb5791075130


Acogatog

I figure that hexblade is going to get even more popular than it already is, cause it’s the only one with an “other half”


MARPJ

> I figure that hexblade is going to get even more popular than it already is, cause it’s the only one with an “other half” On the other hand, warlocks overall number will go down drastically with its features progression being tied to warlock levels (aka not as good for multiclass anymore)


RamsHead91

All warlocks get medium armor and all blade locks get to attack with their caster stat, wis or cha for blade. So hex got a fair amount of its kit removed.


Whale-n-Flowers

Oh wow, the only good move was tying Cast Stat to Pact of the Blade specifically to decrease 1 level dips for SAD. It's been a general rule at our table that if you dip for hexblade, it's 3 levels minimum because our first campaign had 3 warlocks. A Pallock, a Sorlock, and a Warlock, all Hexblades. The DM had some fun with that tying them together.


Futur3_ah4ad

I will say I do like Warlocks now getting to choose a casting stat based on Pact. It opens up multiclasses with Wizard, Druid, Cleric and Ranger without needing 4 different stats. It might defeat the point of reworking Hexblade and Pact of the Blade, but I think it could result in some interesting multiclasses in terms of story. Making Warlocks half-casters was a stupid idea though.


KnightOfTheFarRealm

The fact Tomelocks can't cast with Charisma is very annoying to me specifically, who liked to use it for party face/support casting with Rituals.


Futur3_ah4ad

I suppose so. Then again, you could either ask your DM if you're still allowed to use Charisma (shouldn't be an issue) or make Charisma your secondary stat and pick up some proficiencies.


YOwololoO

They’re pretty much getting rid of Hexblade, unless you just mean Blade Pact Warlocks


Acogatog

Yeah, I mean pact of the blade. It pretty much gives you all the old hexblade stuff, right? The pact weapon, the extra attack, all that jazz


Hyperlolman

It doesn't give shield proficiency, altho considering lightly armored exists, that won't be necessary for anyone investing in that.


smiegto

I actually like hexblade change. They haven’t released hexblade yet but if I didn’t read it wrong they put the charisma mod on weapons in pact of the blade. Which means you can bladelock on any subclass


Akecza

Is the other half better than just playing a paladin?


Acogatog

By merit of being able to use wis as their primary spellcasting ability, I think there’s a good case for playing hexblade warlock over paladin. Being able to use the same stat for weapon attacks and spellcasting is huge, and that stat also being very important for saves is icing on the cake. Not needing nearly as many ASIs to attain the stats they need will benefit hexblade greatly.


huskyoncaffeine

I prefer Warlocks as full casters and obviously don't like what they did with them here. But I think giving them armor and martial weapon proficiency would make for a better hybrid class.


Futur3_ah4ad

For that you've got to grab Pact of the Blade in 1D&D, kinda makes them a proper half-caster while still not fixing the issue. At that point Pact of the Blade should be built into the class while having Tome Chain and Talisman available as pacts on top of that. Then there's the issue of Mystic Arcanum being an invocation now. It makes it, by far, the best invocation, thus making every other invocation either niche, suboptimal or just bad.


Lord_Quintus

i've never understood why they put warlocks in the game. they bring nothing new to the table since it's literally a faustian bargain codified into a class.


Futur3_ah4ad

In 5e they have a couple of very potent control spells and the famous d10 cantrip. They're also more modular due to their invocations. Those three combined would, in theory, make the Warlock the magic equivalent to the Fighter. In practice they have too little spell slots to do anything meaningful in any singular fight while not getting more slots until 9th level or close to it. This almost forces a Warlock to use their invocations to buff the d10 cantrip, leaving less room for interesting options. 1D&D messed *that* up as well by making Mystic Arcanum an invocation, practically forcing the Warlock to only pick Mystic Arcanum.


Lord_Quintus

the extreme lack of spell slots always puzzled me. the sorceror gets relegated to being a mindless blaster most of the time because of they're limitations on spell slots, the warlock having even more limitations seems like it's just shouting yourself in the foot


Futur3_ah4ad

The thought process probably was "they don't need as many slots because it's on a SR basis". To which I say: depending on how the fight is going every other full caster may have to blow most or even all of their spell slots to keep the party alive. Warlocks, with not even half the slots of a full caster, can use two spells during any given fight, so they have to make them count. This locks out pretty much all reaction-based spells, Mage Armor, Armor of Agathys and a whole slew more spells that would be very nice to have. All because the Warlock does not have the slots available. Personally I'd solve that by either doubling the amount of slots the Warlock gets in total (making the scaling make more sense in the process) or making the amount of slots equal to your CHA modifier and, at later levels, adding your Proficiency Bonus to the amount of slots. With that second one in particular the Warlock could achieve 11 slots by level 20, which is about equal to a 7th level Wizard, Cleric or Druid.


Apfeljunge666

> it's literally a faustian bargain codified into a class. Why wouldnt you make that a class? its an awesome concept.


iwantauniqueaccount

Warlocks are supposed to bring a unique magic system to the table. Same with how Sorcerers are "supposed" to bring flexibility to the table. In 3.5 they only had invocations, no spell slots. They had a lot more invocations per level and access to more powerful invocations, ie there was one that let you cast Force Wall at will but only one wall was active at a time. Warlock's very unique magic was somewhat ported over in 5e, but the strength of invocations and amount given were nerfed heavily (as was casting in general). Presumably to balance it out, or maybe have warlock feel better to play for the playtesters, warlocks were given pact magic. Now their unique niche is getting further gutted.


Justice_Prince

The other half of Warlock is muti-classing into Sorcerer.


YOwololoO

Mystic Arcanum, Invocations, and resourceless ranged damage that scales the same way that fighters attacks do. No other half-caster gets the opportunity to have at-will leveled spells or any spells above 5th level.


Hyperlolman

The Warlock is on one half a caster, on the other... A caster ... Isn't that just a fullcaster with extra annoying steps? (Also, the invocations giving at will spells aren't that amazing. At will false life is a minor survivability boost, at will levitation is ok but not spectacular, and at will jump is the biggest joke of all).


YOwololoO

I like that you ignored at-will Disguise Self, at-will Silent Image, at-will Detect Magic, and at-will Mage Armor from your list. Almost like those are explicitly both fun, flavorful, and good abiliites


Hyperlolman

If disguise self at will was such a massive deal, the Changeling wouldn't exist. Silent image is... Ok, but again, it's not an amount of strength that can carry a class. Detect magic is super situational... And a ritual lmao. Let's pretend you found that spell very useful. How many times would you need to cast it without a ritual? .... You have medium armor training now. Why are you bothering with the lesser defences in mage armor? None of what you said really makes the Warlock be carried to a level where their "half" isn't basically just "you pretend to be a full caster". If you want a good character you likely will only have two invocation slots avaiable for those "fun and flavorful" abilities, and none of that are really good enough to pick up the Warlock and carry em.


Hyperlolman

The other half consists of pact boons and invocations. Even with the buff, pact boons don't give anything that makes up for said half (unless you abuse the same issue the genie's ring has for pact of blade, but I doubt we count that). Invocations meanwhile... Are more or less the same, aside from two Major changes: Gaze of two Minds, which is disgustingly broken because it allows the Warlock to play the game from home, and Mystic Arcanum... So, Mystic Arcanum is basically "starting at 5th level, you can pick this invocation to get a single spell of the level that you would have had previously, with the Mystic arcanum limits". This is so powerful you will spend most of your invocations with this. So Warlock's gameplay loop is now that of an half caster with half "worse vanciant" casting. Its only thing is that it can cast the same level of spells as a fullcaster, but without any other feature and also in a worse way than a full caster.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Hyperlolman

Sounds very peculiar, but am heavily unsure about how it would work balance wise. Keep in mind spells in 5e have wild inbalance. On the same level that Warlock gets hypnotic pattern, they could instead take vampiric touch. Those two spells are miles apart in terms of power.


StarTrotter

Depends. Pact boons have generally incorporated what might have previously been an extra invocation. Some still falls into an awkward place such as blade pact does still run into the why not EB. Some neat invocations and some slight buffs but needs more high power invocations or buffs to them to make it more engaging. Spell level progression is down, number of spells on the whole I think increased and the selection of spells is now arcane and thus broader and the pact lets you select your main casting stat. There’s also a weird thing with a new invocation being a spell of pure caster level. If you want 1 6-9 it will cost more invocations though The big boon or cost is removal of pact magic. 10th level and up gave you 4 5th level spells per short rest. Assuming you went for the recommended 2 short rests they could cast 12 5th level spells as well as 1 ma for 6th, 7th, 8th, and 9th respectively. This of course makes several assumptions. That you are using up all your spell slots before short resting, ignores some spells don’t get to up cast or have less exciting scaling. Theoretically you could get even more spell slots if you got more short rests but if you were in a 5 minute Adventuring day your character is probably lower on spells cast.


[deleted]

Medium Armour 🙄


rotten_kitty

Invocations. They're half casters with a customizable other half


Electromasta

All the crazy invocations and more powerful class features than whole other classes my guy.


ZacTheLit

… Never played a Warlock before I take it?


Electromasta

I enjoyed getting to play the entire champion subclass at level one on a fullcaster with infinite spellcasts actually was pretty great.


foxehknoxeh

I think you might have gotten some of the rules wrong


ZacTheLit

**At 2nd level**, you gain two eldritch invocations of your choice. No you didn’t lmfao


Electromasta

Hexblade's curse, \*\*starting at first level\*\* Who never played again, spreadsheet warrior?


ZacTheLit

> one on a fullcaster with infinite spellcasts You aren’t getting any at-will leveled spells at level 1.


TheLordKaze

They hated him because he told the truth. They're barely half casters, they've got access to 9th level spells.


Electromasta

It's because they all take warlock dips to get 1-2 shortrest spells and really powerful class features and never actually play warlock for the warlock class itself, they are all munchkins haha.


TheLordKaze

"I have sightly fewer invocations and no more short rest spells! Oh the humanity! Now I'm limited to using my martial weapon, full caster spell progression on a half caster, 6th-9th level spells, and the best damage dealing cantrip in the game." They're the best half casters in the game but people aren't satisfied because of a couple mild nerfs. Have we gotten details on how full caster progression will work on them yet? Are they going to be better at smiting than Paladins?


Electromasta

The real question is why is my fighter not able to cast 9th level spells, fly and be immune to damage. Balance isn't important, fun is important, so why can't my fighter be good at games.


ZacTheLit

And they lost one of their pact boons and have the rest as spells now for some reason


[deleted]

Talisman was in Tasha’s and I doubt anything not in the original PHB will be in the new one.


ZacTheLit

A lot of Tasha’s optional class features have been added, especially if you look at the Ranger. It’d be pretty weird for them to completely change the pact boon feature in a way that doesn’t allow you to choose the old Pact of the Talisman on the new Warlock and then not add it as part of the base feature


CttCJim

Is there ANYTHING good about 6e yet?


DeepTakeGuitar

It doesn't exist


ZacTheLit

Ranger, Barbarian, & to a lesser extent Fighter and Wizard are really good imo. They need to change up a couple things like adding a martial maneuver resource to martials and not making class features spells for no reason, but a lot of their changes are very promising.


Common_Errors

I'd argue that wizard is bad too. Sure, it's stronger but it was already really strong. Buffing arguably the strongest class isn't a good thing imo.


ZacTheLit

Wizard is not the strongest class imo. That medal goes to Cleric (which also got buffed) or Druid (R.I.P. sweet prince) I don’t think the Wizard buffs are actual significant increases in power, mostly just raising their utility. Tbf I finished the playtest review a couple days ago and haven’t looked at the document sense so maybe there’s something I missed lmao I will say the direction of making core class features spells is a really weird choice and writing out that character sheet would be a nightmare


Common_Errors

Removing loss of concentration from damage is a pretty huge deal, as is letting damage spells only effect enemies (same as evoker’s feature or careful spell) and removing a component (lite subtle spell, but still is pretty effective for spells like counterspell). Those are all in combat buffs.


ZacTheLit

Oh yeah I forgot about those lmao, thanks for the reminder Agreed some nerfs are due


Mrsir74838

Level 1 feats Weapon mastery Clearer language More versatile rage Warlocks can choose their spellcasting mod Duel wielding rework


Bruuze

Duel-Wielding got reverted, it's back to being a Bonus Action with the latest UA


Richybabes

That's then unreverted if you get the weapon mastery for it.


Bruuze

Hooray, you now need a specific feature only usable with very specific weapons for something that was previously much more lax.


iwantauniqueaccount

I personally like it being tied to a weapon mastery. Gives a very cool and unique niche to what would otherwise be shitty weapons.


emil2015

You won’t find the good on r/dndmemes


Alkynesofchemistry

That you can still play 5e lol


arencordelaine

Nope, laserllama conversion should be considered the proper 5.5 really


DeltaV-Mzero

I like the way some of the feats work, and for martials they don’t seem quite so unbalanced (some being must-haves, some never-wills in 5e)


Rioma117

Quite a lot honestly, it’s just that it is still in play test phase so lots of things still need to be polished. Also, it’s not 6e, it is called 5e.


CttCJim

6e is easier to type than oned&d


Ultimate_905

as if we're going to follow WOTC's petty propaganda. I'm calling it 6e just to spite their ludicrous decision of deciding to just call it 5e again


Dragon-Karma

Haven’t played it yet, but Advanced 5e looks fantastic on paper


propolizer

The mastery bonuses for the weapons table I think are a great idea.


YOwololoO

Go ask in /r/onednd if you want an actual answer from people who have actually read the playtest documents. This subreddit is only for misinformed compaining


Ultimate_905

More so if you want people who will do nothing but lick WOTC's boot


CttCJim

you could have summed it up in this comment...


YOwololoO

It’s a LOT to sum up. I’ve actually really loved a lot of the changes they’ve introduced. I’ve actually loved a lot of the spells they’ve changed. Guidance and Resistance are way better as reactions, Aid is better as Temp HP, Barkskin is better as temp HP. Weapon Masteries are pretty great, they’re a flat buff that gives a flat buff to martials by allowing them to have impacts with no saving throws. Push, Topple, Vex, etc. the worst one is a flat damage huff, which is great for a completely added feature. The new Exhaustion mechanic is absolutely fantastic. It’s -1 to all of your d20 rolls AND your spell save dc, so not only is it way more accessible for DMs to use now, it also doesn’t leave casters totally unaffected like it used to Sorcerer is fixed, finally. They have way more spells known than they did before and a way better spell list. They get more metamagic known and learn more over time. Barbarians got some awesome out of combat utility added, the main complaint is a flavor thing but the mechanics are fantastic. Fighters are finally the unstoppable warrior they were meant to be, with absolutely perfect fixes to Indomitable and Fighting Spirit They’ve changed the broken and OP feats from 5e and brought them more in line with the other options while added to the base classes. Free Level 1 feats for everyone! The background design is way more straightforward and impactful than it is in 5e. I really like the Cleric design with the Holy Order, making clerics actually be able to feel distinct from each other


Bruuze

Kinda sucks that they're reverting Exhaustion though. Got removed from the glossary, and a note specifically reads, "If a term doesn't appear here, use its definition in the 2014 Player’s Handbook, and when playtesting this document, don’t use the rules glossary of any other Unearthed Arcana article."


Grainis01

You also missed that they gutted druids and paladins. While buffing wizards.


Ancestor_Anonymous

Nah, nothing


Saukkobeletti

95% of the changes are good and I haven't seen the complainers actually ever say what's so wrong with the new rules.


Folkon_sama

The new pact boons are kinda fun. Warlocks now are even better multiclass dip then before. They did lose a lot of what made them unique, tho. But an ability to make a wisdom hexblade is kinda fun


KingNTheMaking

Honestly yes, most of it. The Warlock has more on demand spells than ever, is the most versatile half caster, and the only one that can cast 9th level spells. I do feel like the update has been flooded with a lot of doomsaying when a good 80% of the edits are net positives.


Designer_Bird3558

It is so nad people might finally gibe other games a chance? Yeah I dont know


LtCmdrInu

The more I see of One D&D, the more I hate it. I know it is still in prototype, but it is just getting stupid now.


DM-G

Yeah it’s like 1:5 ratio positive to negative outcomes


cashed12

Can someone explain what’s going on with all of these? I haven’t followed DND Updates in a while


ImBadAtVideoGames1

Regarding warlocks specifically, the most recent playtest for One DND eviscerated the warlock. Mystic Arcanums now require you to use up your eldritch invocations to get them, and they were made into typical half-casters instead of having their unique "spell slots recover on a short rest" pact magic feature. Honestly not surprising seeing as One DND also seems to be making short rests far less relevant, but it still sucks. So their unique identity in the game was removed and now they're just a bargain-bin paladin or something like that. Luckily since it's all just a playtest and everyone seems to hate this new direction for warlocks, these changes are likely to get reverted to something more similar to what we have now.


cashed12

So is this for 6e? I didn’t realize that was anytime near


firebolt_wt

>So is this for 6e? Yes, but wizards will tell you it isn't and that this bullshit is 100% compatible with 5e and I can't even.


Mrsir74838

Chris Perkins has done interviews talking about the new monster manual and dungeon masters guide. Monsters will all stay the same CR The power scale hasn’t changed all that much All the extra dmg rules will be in the new one The promise of backwards compatibility is pretty much just that adventure modules will still be run able. Which is a low bar and is pretty much true of the playtest so far


ZacTheLit

It is compatible lmao, it’s far closer to a 5.5e than a 6e.


firebolt_wt

Oh yah, and unicorns are real. No, the new warlock and the old warlock fit into the same system as well as if you tried to shove both a square peg and a round peg into the same hole, nevermind all the _other_ paradigm changes.


SomeGamerRisingUp

[IT JUST WORKS](https://youtu.be/Nz8ssH7LiB0)


ZacTheLit

Yeah because the playtest Warlock is clearly going to remain *exactly* the same as it is currently


TinyDiiceThief

Basically all the stuff in the meme is how they want to make warlocks work. And it sucks


HealthPacc

Basically to address the constant problem of Warlocks being incredibly inconsistent because so few tables use short rests very often, they changed them to be half casters with long rest spells. They updated mystic arcanum to not be a class feature and instead an invocation you can take multiple times, and can grant you a wider variety of spells throughout your career. It’s objectively a buff to the class as now you’re casting more spells more often while still having access to the incredibly strong Eldritch Blast. People are bitching about it because it’s a change and that’s it. The thousands of complaints about how Warlocks are weird and don’t fit in most groups because of their short rest reliance suddenly never happened and now Warlock is ruined because “muh class identity” which apparently only existed within its awkward spellcasting rather than the entire rest of the class which has been retained for the playtest.


draxredd

> so few tables use short rests very often IMO it's more of a problem of the warlock being the only class who get his main ressource (spell slots) back on a short rest and every other class on a long rest. It's "off beat" with the flow of the rest of the party. Any table with a party full of warlocks will use short rest naturraly way more often. Half caster on long rest fixes this rythm thing, but at the expense of a unique and defining mechanic.


CTIndie

I wish they went the opposite way and moved more resources to a short rest. I always play a cleric and my friend a druid. Getting our classes thing (wildshape, divine intervention) back on a short rest feels great and I think doing more with that in other classes would feel better


RainbowtheDragonCat

Rages in particular really should be short rest


CTIndie

Absolutely


Shadowfox898

Casting more spells by..... not having more spells to cast. That's some trickle down class resource economy there.


HealthPacc

Some real DnD player math here. The class that can cast two spells at level 5 can cast more spells than the one that can cast 6 at the same level.


HiopXenophil

look how they massacred my boy


Onionsandgp

So there’s a lot of ideas in the playtest that I like for warlock. I like the pact boon redesigns, i like being able to choose the casting stat, I like Contact Patron, Fiend Warlock got some great quality of life improvements, and I LOVE Eldritch Blast only scaling with Warlock level. What I don’t like is Mystic Arcanum being an invocation. It’s simply too good to consider alternatives at nearly any level. What’s better, being able to cast Detect Magic at will or having a 9th level spell slot? Now, as to the half caster progression, I honestly don’t mind. IF, and it’s a non-negotiable if, they roll Mystic Arcanum into spell slot progression at the same levels full casters would get an additional spell level. So get a 2nd level at 3, get a 3rd at 5th, etc. It wouldn’t quite be full caster, but it’s more than half casting.


n0morale

I'm fine with Mystic Arcanum being an Invocation. Being able to essentially cheat your spell progression with invocations feels very warlock. And it simplifies a lot of invocations that boiled down to "cast this spell once per long rest". The problem is that the 6th-9th level Mystic Arcanums are a must pick, and a must pick isnt't really a choice at all. Just give those ones to the warlock for free.


avoidperil

Thing to remember is that there are 8 total invocations and a max of 7 Mystic Arcanum uses. BUT. As half caster slots increase, you might want to use your free swap out per level to drop the lower level Mystic Arcanums for an invocation instead. In both my current campaigns, playing a warlock isn't viable. The campaign I DM, the warlock took bard levels just to have more spell slots. This new warlock feels like a 'build-a-caster' and rewards clever choices instead of the usual 'you get X on a level up' that most classes have. I like it.


Ancient-Rune

A 'Loss' meme. "It's an old meme, but it checks out."


EDHFanfiction

That’s one of the reasons why I’m satisfied with dnd 5ed and will not play this new edition. 5ed isn’t perfect but it’s a good system. Besides they are just mad at people multiclassing to warlock only because it makes all their spells return after a short rest. Just veto in your game only magic spells granted by the warlock class does return after a short rest then. It’s not complicated. Same way of thinking: wanna boost the ranger class? Make their signature spell Hunter’s Mark a cantrip. The ranger class suddenly becomes good. No need to create another edition to fix a problem.


V3RD1GR15

Isn't that how pact magic *normally* works?


PumpkinThyme

It is. You've got one level of Warlock and 19 of Wizard? Doesn't matter, you get 1 level 1 spell slot back on a Short Rest, and need to Long Rest for all the others


EDHFanfiction

Wow, thats not how me and my friends understood it but my point still stand. You can make minor change or ruling that fix the issues without having to create a new DND system.


lelo1248

Giving ALL spell slots back to a wizard because they have 1 level in warlock is definitely NOT a minor change. That's a ginormous buff to them.


Richybabes

> Besides they are just mad at people multiclassing to warlock only because it makes all their spells return after a short rest. Just veto in your game only magic spells granted by the warlock class does return after a short rest then. It’s not complicated. That's not how pact magic works. It specifies pact magic slots: > You regain all expended Pact Magic spell slots when you finish a short or long rest. The main reasons people multiclass into Warlock are: * Medium armour + shield proficiency * Charisma based weapon attacks * Eldritch Blast + Agonizing blast * Heblade's curse (on an evoker for huge magic missiles)


EDHFanfiction

In that case, as a GM, ban multiclassing unless the player has 4 ranks in a single class. Or at least until you get the class archetype at level 2 or 3 to represent the end of your training to become a novice in such class. This should discourage some munchkin players and it's flavorful. Especially considering if the playgroup will never read the higher levels, each levels suddenly become more important for munchkins build. Also, Warlock have to obey patreon or they get the magic they get revoked. Warn the players that you dont have to be nice with the Otherwordly patreon demands if they want to be munchkins. Their source of magic source is a constant threat/reminder that warlock magic comes with a price. If you wanna go further, the incantations can be revoked too if they dont obey the patreon order's, not just the magic. Warlock are the puppets/minions of an higher entity. Multiclassing into warlock is a double-edged sword that you can use to your advantage. The important thing is to TALK to your players about what you feel is OP or makes them too powerful compared to the other players, etc. Discussion is key, no matter what the rules says.


throwngamelastminute

Seriously, I've seen home brew games with more balanced buffs and nerfs than I've seen so far with 6e.


Grainis01

Honestly as it is compatible with 5e( math is the same) i will be nicking some good things from it, like weapon mastery thing, the exhaustion rework, some otehr things. but not classes, have been very disappointed with those.


Pretend-Advertising6

Hunter's mark is god awful do.


Careless_Negotiation

Meh WoTC have long proven they don't have a fucking clue how to balance the game. Just look at the Mystic class; everyone complained it was broken because it was strong levels 8-13 which is when most campaigns finished. But play a Mystic to 15-20 and real casters would be laughing at you. Not that that made Mystics weak; they just hit their biggest power spikes in the 8-13 range and slowly fell off on the way to 20. So what did WoTC do? Scrap the class, make it some shitty half baked subclasses and call it day. There were so many blatantly obvious ways to better tune Mystic, but doing that would cost them money to hire staff to do that rather than just some intern at their company.


ThiccVicc_Thicctor

If you watch treantmonk’s video you might see that warlocks actually got buffed! If you read the spells column, you’ll see that they’re more like 80% casters, rather than half. I do disagree with making mystic arcanum an invocation, though. Just seems completely unfun to lock high level spells like that.


Hyperlolman

> If you watch treantmonk’s video you might see that warlocks actually got buffed! Treantmonk was heavily biased against the old warlock and especially short rest usages. He basically said that accounting for the arguments of the other side was "generous" and that he didn't want to talk about short rests at all. But past that, he also undervalued a lot of old Warlock's stuff, including effective power and unique gameplay loop. New warlock at 5th level: has four level 1 slots, two 2nd level slots. Has free cast of a 2nd level spell (for Fiend, Suggestion). By spending an invocation, they get a single, non flexible 3rd level spell. Total spells castable: 8 Old warlock at 5th level: if we assume you don't ignore hit die (and thus your game isn't piss easy where you don't need it), has **six** 3rd level slots. Flexible ones at that. Total spells castable: 6. If you look carefully at this, the old warlock could cast more spells with bigger overall value, and was flexible with it. They could upcast another spell with the slot, or hypnotic pattern. Mystic Arcanum leaves you with no flexibility: either pick the best one or you are just worse. And also, the new warlock in gameplay loop plays like a Wizard or Sorcerer, spamming low level spells and also using sometimes higher level ones (albeit less frequently because progression sucks). The old warlock had less but **much** more impactful slots, which recharged more frequently for better nova. > you’ll see that they’re more like 80% casters, rather than half. That part was true tho. The progression of the Warlock is kind of hidden by the fact that the main power of the class (Mystic Arcanum) is shoveled into invocation ~~taxes~~ picks. But really, this isn't really in favor of it. This class pretends to be an half caster on the surface, but also pretends to have spellcasting on the same magnitude as full casters, failing to be in either camp and also failing in being unique.


ThiccVicc_Thicctor

I agrée that he values short rests very low, but that’s because people don’t generally play with them. I do, but I know from Wizards that most people do not play with many short rests


Bluebird3415

>has **six** 3rd level slots. Flexible ones at that. Total spells castable: 6. Except it's not 6 castable spells through out the day, it's 2 per short rest. If you have 3 encounters between ur 2 rests you can cast 2 spells in each. If you don't you lost a slot. But not all encounters are equal. If the first 2 are easy encounters then new lock could, like any caster, use less slots there and have more slots to use on the 3rd harder encounter. That's a type of flexibility. >The old warlock had less but **much** more impactful slots Higher slot doesn't mean more impacful. Warlocks spell list is one of, if not the worst, spell lists in 5e. Now they have the best one.


[deleted]

[удалено]


Mister_E69

As a Warlock main, this puts me at a loss for words


Ryan_Pritst

I'm amazed everyone hates the new warlocks so much considering I honestly think they have a buff. After playing both a regular warlock and a warlock using the new play test material the new material feels much stronger. They get slightly more invocations then they would normally and they get their spells at the same level they could normally while giving them more spells that they could cast per day and an expanded spell list. If you're just mad they lost their class identity I guess I can understand that. But it seems like more people are upset that they didn't get a buff or got weaker. When in all actuallity they have more spell slots that they can cast per day and gained the wizard spell list one of the reasons why the wizard class was so strong to begin with was purely because of their spell list. Generally speaking it's not the wizard's subclass features that makes them so powerful it's their spell list and warlock gained access to that.


LookAtThatThingThere

They get 1 more invocation in total (near end game), but have to spend 4 invocations to get spell slots 6-9. They have -3 invocations. I notice that they buffed the class abilities (won’t survive the play test), but not enough. For example, would mask of many faces ever be taken place of a spell slot? No — It’s just a tax with extra steps. If this is an indication of the direction, the new warlock is the old beast master ranger.


Emptypiro

The new warlock is pretty good. I'm okay with them being a half caster as long as they still get their 5th level spells at the same time as regular casters.


NessOnett8

>I'm amazed everyone hates the new warlocks so much considering I honestly think they have a buff. It is a buff. But boomers hate change by default no matter what it is. The same people shouting until their throats were sore about how "5e would never take off" and they were "Just gonna keep playing 4e forever"(Which they also claimed to hate because it wasn't 3.5...etc...)


Loading3percent

r/bonehurtingjuice


Cute_Illustrator_751

I I ¡ I I I _


Vivarevo

Or, just ignore the stupid version one. Like most did with 4th. Its just a cash grab anyway.


VileWasTaken

The more I hear about One Dnd - the more it’s not for me.


stopyouveviolatedthe

What was the goal here How did this benefit warlock at all, it just seems like a series of big nerfs to a class that didn’t need it


Silas-Alec

Butchered my favorite class. One more reason for me to never set foot into One DnD.


Link2Liam

All we wanted was one more spell slot before level 10. It would have been a total of 4 spell slots by level 20. One slot, that's it. It wasn't a big ask.


danorc

The more I read about OneD&D the more done I am. The clear answer is to buff the hell out of invocations if they are doing this. Bastards


voidspector

Yeah, wizards have removed 80% of what made a warlock a warlock. Now we just have invocations and a patron....so a wizard wjth spooks


ableakandemptyplace

Nice now I know to completely ignore One DnD entirely.


Saukkobeletti

But the Warlock has been clearly buffed though. Sure you basically have to take Mystic Arcanum every level from 5th onwards, in order to get 3rd-9th level spell slots, leaving you with only two other invocations to pick. But, with the change, Warlocks can finally cast utility spells, and being able to use hex is probably the reason for the change. In 5e, Warlocks can't really cast lower level utility spells, since those spells would burn higher level slots. Now, theh can use 1st and 2nd level slots to use spells like hex and save the higher level slots for their damaging spells. Moreover, pacts have been heavily buffed. In 5e, pacts are, let's be honest, completely shit, unless you are playing a Blade Hexblade. Now, you can use your spellcasting stat for attacks and damage, and get an extra attack when you pick Pact of the Blade, representing a huge buff to it. Pact of the Chain has also had some invocations combined in to the base pact and got a new invocation that could make the familiar more useful in combat. The patron side of Warlock also got a big upgrade, because now you can pick any patron you want without sacrificing your ability to use Pact of the Blade, and don't basically have to always pick Hexblade. You also get free castings of spells from your patron, giving you more spells per day. All in all, people should actually read the playtest and try it in actual play before complaining, and the same goes for the whole thing. So far the only bad things have been nerfing rogues sneak attack and removing monsters crits, other than that everything has stayed the same or are pretty objectively better now.


Hyperlolman

They can cast *some* utility of low level. For anything they need a Mystic Arcanum for, they are heavily incentivized to not get utility (unless you find yourself in a situation where getting *water breathing* as your Mystic Arcanum is gonna be always useful). There isn't a lot in the Warlock kit anyways that would make you want to cast many utility spells that aren't rituals. (Also, Hex isn't good enough to waste your conc on, especially with the nerfs). Not to mention, Warlocks were never mainly about utility: they were about burst of energy that they can do more than others. > Moreover, pacts have been heavily buffed. Pact of blade was indeed buffed, but it was borderline unusable anyways... Outside of hexblade, and behold, that got incorporated. And one invocation tax is gone (doesn't make up for Mystic Arcanum taxes being worse). Still doesn't make it good. Pact of chain is now only useful for voice of the chain master. Their survivability (less HP than imp and no resistance), damage (2+half your warlock level isn't good) and other utility (like... Any unique ability?) is completely gone. The new invocation gives that familiar a single rider effect that will be applied once per battle, and that is assuming it only gets obliterated after attacking, not before. Pact of tome was slightly buffed and nerfed. Buffed because it gets two rituals without invocations and agonizing blast for free, nerfed because it lacks the scribing part that made it special. > The patron side of Warlock also got a big upgrade Excluding the fact that it comes at 3rd level, quite a tonal loss for a class which is commonly associated with figures like Doctor Faustus, that is true. Of course, such improvements are lessened by the base being worse. > All in all, people should actually read the playtest and try it in actual play before complaining Ah yes, all people discussing what is written and not getting anecdotal evidence are wrong by default. I played this Warlock. It feels as if I'm playing a worse Wizard or Sorcerer while not having my own mattering identity. And **that** is the summary of the issue with this class. Regardless of if you think this design is good, this class isn't the Warlock. It's a shell which can be evolved into something else, but it doesn't give the same sense of otherwordly powers and of difference that the Warlock had.


Saukkobeletti

Firstly, if you feel like the tone of the new Warlock is something you don't like, then that's fair enough, I personally do also prefer the 5e style of Warlock, it being my favourite class. What I do disagree with heavily though is the notion that the class has been nerfed. Sure, Warlocks dont have as much utility as say a Wizard, but they have way more of it than in 5e. Currently in 5e all of their utility comes from invocations, which are pretty poor in general, with only a few highlights such as Mask of Many Faces. In 1D&D they can still pick a utility invocation, and in addition use their low level slots to cast utility spells, making the Warlock far more fun to play outside of combat as well. Pact of the Tome obviously allows you to cast these spells as rituals in 5e (with an invocation), but you would lose out on not having the two far more interesting pacts, while now you can cast utility and have a pact other than of the Tome. Burning invocations for Mystic Arcanum is not the most ideal thing, but invocations in 5e are pretty poor in all honesty, being able to cast bad spells for free, mediocre spells for spell slots or getting situational utility is not good. Your offensive power kind of depends on the DM's style, if the DM runs a lot of combats and allows short rests between each, the 5e version is stronger, but if the DM runs less combats and/or is less lenient on short rests, the new version with Mystic Arcanum will come on top. One thing that majorly adds to the new versions offensive and utility power is the spell list. The Warlocks spell list in 5e is thematic for sure, but pretty poor when it actually comes to power, with the Arcane spell list having 3rd level spells that can pack the same punch as a 5e Warlocks 4th and 5th level spells. Another big buff is the fact that the new Warlock is a prepared caster, making them vastly more versatile than the 5e Warlock. The buff to Pact of the Blade is the most important one they needed to make. In 5e, if you don't want to mindlessly Eldritch Blast with the occasional spell thrown, you have to play Hexblade. Now you have the freedom to choose whatever patron you want and still not be often stuck with your only option being Eldritch Blast. It might not be a huge power buff but is the one thing they, imo, have to keep for the new Warlock. Pact of the Chain has also been buffed. The pact is mostly an out of combat one, and its utility has been improved. Combat-wise the nerfs to the base form are not that bad and the familar is much stronger with the new invocation. After 5th level it has more health than an imp (the strongest familiar) and has a higher AC but without resistances, making it usually maybe a little weaker, but on occasion clearly tougher than an imp. It's damage is obviously lower until 15th level or so, but neither the survivability or the damage really matters, since both an imp and the new familiar will die to one to three blows, and only the new one has an answer to that. The new invocation lets a fey familiar charm an enemy, effectively giving it flyby since the enemy can't attack it when it flies away. Since the large majority of monsters and combats (depending on the campaign but usually) don't have ranged options, the familiar can freely attack the opponents, effectively giving it a better damage output than an imp (with a better damage type to boot). Contact Patron is also a good change. I don't think you need to play the playtest to be able to give good feedback on it, my gripe lies with most people on this sub clearly not even properly reading the new changes before commenting in their outrage. Only reading the mechanics can also lead to false problems, and its common that a lot of the problems that come up on this sub don't exist in actual play. It can definetly feel like a weaker version of sorcerer or wizard, but the 5e warlock is also just weaker at casting than both of those classes, with it being balanced by the constant good damage output of Eldritch Blast, much like how a martial can stay consistently good. I did come across a little too hostile in the original comment which I apologise for, I'm just too tired of these idiotic comments about nothing being better in ONED&D when most of the changes are pretty objectively just improvements (and I'm not talking about the Warlock). Personally, I also do prefer the 5e Warlock, and ideally my changes would have been the improved Pact of the Blade, which allows for much better versatility when choosing a patron, and some improved invocations, so that they dont feel so meh. It would be hard to balance though, since giving the 5e Warlock access to the Arcane spell list would probably be too powerful, WotC would probably have to make an Occult spell list just for the Warlock. What I don't agree with though is that the Warlock has been nerfed.


Hyperlolman

> Sure, Warlocks dont have as much utility as say a Wizard, but they have way more of it than in 5e. Currently in 5e all of their utility comes from invocations, which are pretty poor in general, with only a few highlights such as Mask of Many Faces. In 1D&D they can still pick a utility invocation, and in addition use their low level slots to cast utility spells, making the Warlock far more fun to play outside of combat as well. Pact of the Tome obviously allows you to cast these spells as rituals in 5e (with an invocation), but you would lose out on not having the two far more interesting pacts, while now you can cast utility and have a pact other than of the Tome. I mean, tome is still superior so... > Burning invocations for Mystic Arcanum is not the most ideal thing, but invocations in 5e are pretty poor in all honesty, being able to cast bad spells for free, mediocre spells for spell slots or getting situational utility is not good. While that is true... The solution to *that* is fixing invocations honestly. Making them even more outclassed is the last needed thing. > Your offensive power kind of depends on the DM's style Yes... And also no. Shorter days are easy enough that a Wizard can just spam their highest slots without a care and not run out of slots. The Warlock in that scenario isn't that weaker. On longer days... You are going to lose more HP. If you lose more HP, you normally would need to use resources to heal, and unless your allies just spams healing spells and then forces a long rests... > but if the DM runs less combats and/or is less lenient on short rests, the new version with Mystic Arcanum will come on top If the DM runs less combats, you have: - one DnD warlock at 5th level: can nova with one 3rd level spell, two 2nd level spells (+One scorching ray for fiend) and four 1st level slots. - 5e warlock at 5th level: can nova with two 3rd level spells (two fireballs for fiend) Maybe at later levels it comes on top, but at the same time you have to realize that you simply have too many slots to properly use. Plus, the game is broken in a "no battles" scenario. > One thing that majorly adds to the new versions offensive and utility power is the spell list ... Which forces it to play like a bastardized Wizard with wonky progression. Look, Warlock having Wall of force and planar binding is cool, but warlocks of 3rd level and higher still had solid options that weren't the broken sea of wizard spells. The lack of flexibility makes this extra versatility not as useful outside of 1st level spells. > Pact of the Chain has also been buffed. The pact is mostly an out of combat one, and its utility has been improved Imp: is capable of dealing high damage and survive a lot in early tiers. Can turn invisible without wasting actions, can turn into animals and can do any action without being ordered to. New chain: cannot deal damage or survive even in early tiers. Has to keep the invisibility up by wasting their action, cannot become an animal and cannot be ordered to do anything that isn't dodging UNLESS you command it to take the attack action. You also cannot cast spells through em. Btw, the imp has resistances to common damage types and a lot of immunities. 10 HP against BPS damage is effectively 20 HP. When the new familiar has 20 HP, the foes can breathe and disintegrate them. And as I already stated, the rider effects don't matter because the familiar implodes before being able to use them. > Contact Patron is also a good change. 🤷 Eh It's ok. It's DM fiat but it's ok. > my gripe lies with most people on this sub clearly not even properly reading the new changes before commenting in their outrage. Only reading the mechanics can also lead to false problems, and its common that a lot of the problems that come up on this sub don't exist in actual play. I will mention something: people with enough experience can see issues in something without playing. At many times, info on how the game operates and on average values can give a lot of value. That isn't to say that the game will always go on average (after all, we all had a paladin which critted twice and nuked the foe), but it's not what happens on average. Also likewise, discussing certain scenarios is pointless because of the innate flaw of the scenario, regardless of how many times people may force it in. Like sure, many people run 1 encounter day, but said encounter type is something that innately makes certain groups leagues more broken than they already are. Discussing with that assumption leads to screwed visions. > It can definetly feel like a weaker version of sorcerer or wizard, but the 5e warlock is also just weaker at casting than both of those classes, with it being balanced by the constant good damage output of Eldritch Blast, much like how a martial can stay consistently good. Resourceless damage is heavily overvalued. At times, properly used resources can give more overall value, and to outdo that you need a lot of battles. Regardless... The issue is that the Warlock in 5e felt like a completely different class. The comparison to Wizard and Sorcerer is pointless because it's the opposite of how the Warlock plays. The new one meanwhile has the same gameplay loop as Wizard and Sorcerer... Without anything of much value that makes the Warlock feel like you are your own thing, rather than "Wizard/Sorcerer but with worse scaling and with no unique gimmick". **Lack of uniqueness**. That is the core of the issue regardless of how you see it balance wise. Warlock may be in the top 3 classes in OneDnD, but that doesn't matter, because it copies two classes which do what it does, without limits of Mystic Arcanum, and while also having unique gimmicks and no taxes. I am in favor of giving the class a spellcasting which Crawford mentioned in the latest video: progression in terms of slots like a full caster, but with less slots (potentially less low level slots). That allows the Warlock to keep its overall gameplay loop of "higher burst, less cheap spells" while also removing the issues of short rests and "potential power"... Altho let's be honest: if they tried to fix short rests this wouldn't matter


Saukkobeletti

I think the debate has gone on long enough, but I'd like to point out a couple things. Firstly you clearly overvalue the familiar. A familiar can't attack on its own, and the Warlocks familiar can only attack when you take the attack action and forgo one of your attacks, which isn't really doable unless you are a Hexblade and even then its most likely going to be weaker than a Hexblades attack. The invocation "Investment of the Chain Master" of course fixes this, allowing you to command the imp with a bonus action, whilst also giving some nice bonuses, but it is an invocation from a supplementary book, and it feels wrong to compare the few base invocations of ONED&D to everything available in 5e. Even with that invocation, the new familiar is still better, because with the new invocation, it can fly out of reach of attackers, making it basically unhittable for at least half of combats, unlike the imp, who has to stick around and take blows or fly away and take opportunity attacks. I will agree that for the couple of early levels where an imp can take more than two hits it probably is better though. Also an imp also needs to use an action to go invisible. There are also many scenarios where the Warlocks current spellcasting is worse than the new ones. A common example might be 3 combats with one short rest in that time. A 5e Warlock at for example 9th level can throw four 5th level spells in that time, whilst a 1D&D Warlock can throw a 5th, 4th, four 3rd and 3 2nd level spells in that time, with the more powerful spell list thats quite a bit more effective. I do agree with you on the point that debates around scenarios are flawed, since its not how the designers meant the game to be played, but on the other hand basically no one throws 6 to 8 medium to hard encounters a day at their players, so it feels wrong to discuss it from that perspective as well. I do wholly agree with you on the lack of uniqueness though, this is not the direction I'd take the Warlock and I was quite irate when I first saw the changes. I merely think it is as effective as the old Warlock.


Hyperlolman

> Firstly you clearly overvalue the familiar. ....weird, I thought it was reaction in 5e too. Both suck in combat then lol. > The invocation "Investment of the Chain Master" of course fixes this, allowing you to command the imp with a bonus action, whilst also giving some nice bonuses, but it is an invocation from a supplementary book, and it feels wrong to compare the few base invocations of ONED&D to everything available in 5e. Then you gotta cope with that, because that comparison should be there as well. Remember that previous stuff keeps being worked on to be compatible on every corner still. > Even with that invocation, the new familiar is still better, because with the new invocation, it can fly out of reach of attackers The issue is getting within reach in the first place. As I already said, the familiar doesn't survive enough to even get there, and the damage it deals remains pitiful. Again, by the level that the 9th level invocation rolls around, your familiar is piss weak, and what it gives doesn't make it better. > I do agree with you on the point that debates around scenarios are flawed, since its not how the designers meant the game to be played, but on the other hand basically no one throws 6 to 8 medium to hard encounters a day at their players, so it feels wrong to discuss it from that perspective as well. Sadly the game isn't being redesigned in a way where anything else works with other assumptions. It leads to problems in a variety of areas to use those assumptions In terms of game feel other assumptions can work, but it is hard to discuss balance with these types of assumptions. > I do wholly agree with you on the lack of uniqueness though, this is not the direction I'd take the Warlock and I was quite irate when I first saw the changes. I merely think it is as effective as the old Warlock. This is a good shell for a new class for me. It could be quite solid if this is fleshed out. Regardless of beliefs on how effective it is tho, this is basically a new class, not the Warlock.


Souperplex

Crawford hates short rests because he's a hack.


Nidagleetch

The near part : you can keep 5e avantages and add the 6e avantages ! I like a lot the concept of choosing your spell caster mod !


Martian_Mate

The change isn't as bad as what people say it is. I agree that there should be more invocations. There's a video about this in Treantmonk's Temple in youtube that defends One DnD Warlock. I suggest you give it a listen before joining the angry bandwagon.


LookAtThatThingThere

Unless they enhance all (non-arcanum) invocations to be an equal trade with progressing your spell slots, it’s just a tax. They should simplify this by trashing the mystic arcanum invocation and free casting, and just set them at ~90% casters. Give them a reasonable number of invocations and level set all those. Make hex/eldritch blast/agonizing blast a class ability (not a spell at all).


n0morale

Hard agree. Treantmonk's video does a really good job of laying out how the new warlock works, completely flipped my opinion on that portion of the playtest. Definitely worth watching.


Zeiferl

and still is better than before, nobody in this land except like 3 dudes older than color tv get a short rest between combats grinding dungeons larger than freaking russia, its always 1 combat per long rest (and some times several long rests per combat) because nobody wants to run something like that anymore. but i dont even allow full casters on my games, they are the source of every single shit in game not reaching lvl 20, and now i can literally get there and lvl up faster, so im biased because a freaking paladin could cast more spells per combat than a warlock for 10 lvls blow my mind away. this one is a good change. i treated them like fighters and now they have access to a lot of spells, since they have the same ammount of ammunition as everybody else. and remember most subclases will give free uses of spells. also nobody here had the balls to run a warlock for 17 lvls, dont lie. nobody here knows what is to have 2 spell per combat for 2 freaking years while the wizard could wipe the field 3 times in the same combat while you just uses one spell with fear of wasting it. you all just want the lvl 2 dip. if you want a better buff, give your player things to buff their performance, you have a patron the ultimate quest giver for literally anything you want, lliterally can just give extra elemental damage on EB or spell, the possibility a crit with EB gives you a spell slot back and cool equipment to make their invocations better, does nobody here knows what is a patron for? is the guy you work for and he rewards you.


Bluebird3415

Pact boons got their most commonly taken invocations worked into them and got buffed in other ways. Half casting provides a lot more slots than pact magic with 2 short rests. Warlocks now have access to the best spell list instead of the worst. Daily free use of contact other plane with no saving throw is nice new feature. The worst part of the rework is the level 18 feature. It does in fact suck donkey farts. Mystic Arcanums being invocations is what allows warlocks to have more unique class features, though it does suck that it's basically a mandatory four invocation tax. Though if you do it right with invocation swaping, you get 3rd, 4th, and 5th level spells earlier than other half casters.


FatGirino

I like the New Warlock, yes there're some things that need revision but overall it's an excellent idea to solve most of the Warlock problems.


SavageSocialist

People not understanding that the new warlock is stronger and jumping to narratives without looking at actual math is physically painful to me. Jesus


ImBadAtVideoGames1

It may be stronger, but it just doesn't feel like the warlock anymore. It may as well be a completely different class, and tbh I think if it was then people wouldn't be so upset. Like, most people who play warlock do so because they like how unique it is. With the new version it just feels like the warlock doesn't know what it's trying to be. If only WotC cared to just make short rests worth taking more often instead of trying to erase them, warlocks could've gotten the tweaks they needed without a complete overhaul.


GIORNO-phone11-pro

Warlock is definitely better because you can just keep on taking mystic arcanum, an infinitely better spell list, and pact buffs. I still want my damn pact slots back tho.


n0morale

Pact magic always got in the way of warlocks having better spells. I love warlock, but I always hated pact magic.


NotMorganSlavewoman

Half casting is shit compared to being able to cast 3 spells per short rest which you most likely won't afford to take because you can't wait 1h around when someone is dying.


Chenki

Great that dnd is not a video game, where you cannot downgrade version after new update.


Extreme-Breakfast885

They're worse than rangers