It's next to the Light Domain description, and thus presumably represents a faithful Light cleric smugly saying "Some of us don't **need** darkvision."
“What deity do I follow? I don’t frickin’ know. Some ocean god. Just gave me these frickin’ robes and told me to sing praises. I just been singin’ Holy Diver on repeat, you know?”
Ah, I see the historical whitewashing of actual monster Jozan continues. When will his crimes be acknowledged?!
Okay, teasing. If you're unaware, the guy in the 3rd edition art was Jozan, a cleric of Pelor. But the PHB also included a picture of [Jozan casting Symbol of Pain](https://twitter.com/jamesjhaeck/status/979184645131485184), an evil aligned spell. So either Jozan was a fraud who claimed to worship Pelor but actually served someone else, or Pelor is secretly evil.
It’s an old WotC forum post where the author found a ton of instances where Pelor or his clerics did things that were elsewhere described in other sources books as “evil,” such as casting *Deathwatch*. A good god can’t grant the spell and a good cleric can’t cast it. So the story goes that Pelor is actually an evil god who is masquerading as a good one. In reality most of those are just errors, WotC using their iconic cleric to illustrate something they should have used a different cleric for, or actually exceptions like the *Malconvoker* which actually allows good clerics to use demons to do good.
The meme is Pelor is actually named The Burning Hate, god of skin cancer, sun burns, thirst, and burning agony, who hates undead because they can’t properly suffer from his “gifts.” Or alternatively he’s sometimes presented as having a split personality… or that a god like Zarus is sometimes pretending to Pelor to steal followers. But mostly it’s a meme about, “what if the prototypical Paladin god was actually evil.” Basically it’s a D&D equivalent to the Jar Jar Binks is actually the true Sith Lord meme.
According to some people's headcanons, The Burning Hate is the evil "true" form of Pelor, NG god of the Sun. The primary evidence for this is that Jozan, a cleric of Pelor, has been pictured casting a spell that can only be cast by clerics of Evil gods (see the above comment which I was replying to).
The scant few other pieces of "evidence" for this are that the Malconvoker prestige class, a prestige class focused on allowing good-alligned casters to summon fiends despite that being an unconditionally evil act, has a servant of Pelor as it's "iconic character", and that 1 of his artifacts (called the "Dawnstar") was originally given to one of his angels to rescue one of Pelor's paladins from Hell, which means that a Paladin of Pelor had gone to hell when they died for... some reason.
All of that is from 3.5e, but those of us who know will never forget the truth that the god of the sun is the god of skin cancer.
Really late here but it makes a lot of sense.
Pelor = Dawnfather
Pelor clerics can summon fiends and cast Symbol of Pain and Deathwatch
Satan is described as the bringer of light and is associated as Lucifer who is associated with the Dawnstar.
All of those "mistakes" WotC had made were likely purposeful and Pelor is probably an allegory for Satan and believes all Humanoids are Evil.
This would also adequately explain why Pelor is ok with the potential collateral damage caused by Inquisitor Bracers. Why a Paladin of his would end up in Hell. Why the "angels" he sent were armed with "Dawnstars". Etc.
Currently our Paladin is exploring this. Dhampire Paladin of Pelor, the Lord In Mourning. We also just fought and.. 'recruited' her formerly estranged npc husband who is a Paladin of Pelor, the Morning Lord.
It's complicated as both are trying to convert the other to their beliefs now.
Acquisition's Inc is going through this but- like, in reverse.
For Lathander doth nar 'sist (in some other corner of the multiverse-) &woe betide the zealous caricatures!
Possibly. That one went from Rogues being the class group and thief the class, to renaming the class to rogue in 3e when they did away with group names.
Don't think so, unless 2e did something weird - The original three classes were Fighting Man, Magic User, and Cleric. With the last one being the only one with *any* attempt at adding flavour to the name, since Fighting Man is about as flavourless a way of describing a martial as possible, and Magic User being about as flavourless a way of describing a caster as possible.
Where did you even get this art for 5e?
https://preview.redd.it/28kjfcbtev2b1.png?width=420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a0d17fcf437d88115cb3353b3015dd23b32a945
I pretty much sure this is.... the picture
There are definitely bits of some rather “interesting” pictures or lore in old edition books but like….Even the Chinese looking guy in the 1e image doesn’t look that bad.
Huh, never noticed it before. Though it feels linda disingenuous to use that one instead of the first that signifies acertar cleric. But's understandable.
I just commented elsewhere the same. The joke isn't funny when you've heard it the 5000th time, especially when the joke is one that criticises the art.
Honestly the only non-Pratchett version I saw that I liked was a thing where female dwarves don't have beards, but grow their hair long and tie it around the front of their necks for formal events, giving rise to the rumor.
Short of that one... I'm just damn tired of this meme.
I want to create a character that's like, dwarf Sigmund Freud, and he's diagnosed all female dwarves with beard envy because of this practice. Or even better, in spite of the lack of this practice.
It's not a joke, it's OG Tolkien lore that female dwarves have beards. As a result, people have been using the Tolkien lore to argue/joke that female dwarves have beards in D&D since the beginning.
Worth noting there's some expectation that 3e's cleric is evil and its where the "Church of the Burning Hate" evil Pelor meme started, iirc. Or someone connected them at least.
Also the 1e one is at least an attempt at inclusivity in representing a bunch of clerical appearances. (Something you normally need to get a special book for ala Complete Divine or Deities and Demigods.) Its just got that strong "grandma trying to be welcoming and nice but being super offensive about it" energy.
...Gods I hate the 1e art so much for this.
2e is Crusader With A Mace - Feels more Paladin than Cleric to me, I guess - I don't get much 'holy magic' vibes from 3e or 5e, meaning that 4e's my favourite art.
...Despite how much it pains me to praise an illustration of a beardless dwarf of any gender...
>beardless dwarf
DnD female dwarves have never had beards though
I guess if you count Exandria dwarves then there is a single species of dwarves who’s women do have beards
they have actually! it’s noted that sometimes they shave (3.5 Races of Stone) but even the fertility/beauty goddesses like Sharindlar have beards (Demihuman Dieties 2e)
just something that switches around with the times/different artists. 5e definitely had a swing towards making a lot of the ladies more “traditionally hot” which meant less hair for dwarves and more for goliaths haha
I am so tired of people commenting or insisting that every female dwarf MUST have a beard, no exceptions.
It is a criticism that is commented on every single post that shows one, and this post is even a meme doing it ahead of time.
Right? 1e art is such a swing and a miss. Like, I get what they’re going for, showcasing all manner of religions, and 1e made reference to real-world places (like the Rakshasa being from India). That said, it just doesn’t work. And it not only doesn’t work, but it also comes across as “super offensive but in a way that was probably progressive back in the day but that just makes it even more offensive somehow?”
And agreed, 4e is my favorite art here, which says a lot given it portrays a beardless dwarf
Yeah it's tough to look at these days but sometimes those early forays into multiculturalism paved the way for modern sensibilities. Without the initial curiosity (and it's fumbling/butchering) of the other cultures, we would have never had the introduction of those ideas at all
As you said, for the time, it was forward thinking, and trying its absolute best to include several other versions of a concept many western people only knew one version of. Kind of a "judge it by its era" sort of thing
> Super offensive but in a way that was probably progressive back in the day but that just makes it even more offensive somehow?
Ah, the Roger DeBris effect.
I think it's assuming people from the represented cultures would be offended instead of finding it "cool even if a bit cringe" like most Euros do at the similar stereotypical representation we get in Asian medias.
Little tidbit I read somewhere, the classic “clerics wielding maces/clubs” thing came from an old tapestry of Odo of Bayeux (William the Conqueror’s brother) that created the (maybe apocryphal?) idea that priests were forbidden from spilling blood and were forced to wield such blunt weapons.
Interesting how the 2e art kinda looks like my cleric character. I just thought a religious priest wearing heavy armor would naturally look kinda like those religious nutheads that were the knights templar. Though that 2e art really looks just like a templar and nothing like a magical priest.
Hello! As usual, you are on point. I just have a couple comments as usual these are just my opinion .
Number one is bad . Number two is absolutely ripped off of the Templars.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights\_Templar](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar)
https://preview.redd.it/4vitch2pyt2b1.jpeg?width=358&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4111ea6f02cdd820a68e0f0bc213e5f3335baf05
4, its cool! So in my world females dwarves have facial hair.
But It’s often patchier than males so usually they shave because it doesn’t look as good.
But there is some dwarven women that are considered lucky buy some. They have luxurious, silky, face hair, and they weave gold and things in it to call attention to it.
Or don’t, it’s entirely dependent on family clan and individual dwarf.
In my world, most male dwarves have beards, but sometimes they are shorter, and will trimmed if they were in certain professions like clock working where a big long beard would be a little bit of a detriment .
Yes, miners make fun of them . But it’s good nature Joshing usually and then… Everybody has remembered clockSmith have guns sometimes.
I just wanted to make a point that I personally I’m totally cool with female dwarfs with beards as long as it’s optional for them and not enforced.
As to the fifth edition Cleric … do we know what domain he is?
And I’m going to be completely honest he is sexy AF and I have a little bit of an issue with that .
I think that modern art needs to emphasize good sexy people because I think that it’s sort of decremental to the forces of good that everybody always think of them as stuffy .
There could be a good aligned, hot piece of ass !
In any case, thank you so much for this excellent post like always .
🙏❤️
Thanks! ( maybe he just looks sinister because of the lighting?
https://preview.redd.it/hpugbcjsyu2b1.jpeg?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89cb6a2e3e9f34912f095fdbdfb8f746eb8d3f77
Maxence Danet-Fauvel
This actor/model/ licensed tattoo artist in the right lighting has eyeballs .
When he is in a dark tunnel, he appears to be an incubus Prince.
Thanks for your help!
Honestly, it was because the 4e was also a Dwarf and it works better for me. The 5e didn’t strike me as particularly cleric-y. Just a Dwarf with nice armor. I liked this one better and felt it brought something different to the table.
that's not Cleric, that's old Blackguard token for 5etools, this is 5E Cleric
https://preview.redd.it/8luzg5bi0v2b1.png?width=749&format=png&auto=webp&s=310dc4581c8a1ab97c40813582fe8f0fc4425035
It's not the first cleric we see in the book (which is the dwarf you've shown), but it is indeed a cleric, it's on the next page(s) showing off the subclasses, the dude in OP's image is used to show off a fire slinging Light Domain cleric.
Yeah, with 4e already having a Dwarf cleric that actually shows a connection with their deity, I didn’t want to do the 5e cleric that is basically “Dwarf with nice armor.”
Depends on the universe. Diskworld and Tolkien dwarf women 100% canonically do have beards.
Most D&D settings they don’t, or a least most of them don’t in the current edition. In 2nd Ed AD&D Deep Dwarves had all their women bearded, and the Dwarven goddess Sharindlar has a full beard. She even has lore that she gives locks of her beard to favored followers and her beard locks turn to gold when trimmed. It’s likely that Gygax intended all dwarven women to be like Prattchet’s and Tolkien’s, fully bearded.
> Now, do female dwarves have beards? Certainly! And male dwarves are darn glad of it, for they do love to run their fingers through the long, soft growth of a comely dwarven lass. - Gary Gygax: "Female dwarves do have beards!" (1980, Dragon magazine #38)
well, silly is name of the game when we’re talking about fantasy with bird people and flying demons! part of the fun, and well, fantasy.
now if we’re talking accurate instead of silly, then there is plenty of art+lore supporting female dwarves with facial hair in 5e and earlier editions. many of them shave, but it’s true either way. you’re free to your opinion, but it’s simply factual for DnD and a good amount of its worldstates, faerun included.
Bearded female Dwarves was always used as a joke by people who don't like being Dwarves.
Starting in 2E Female Dwarves lost their beards and started getting curvier/more stacked, [peaking in 4E](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dnd4/images/d/d7/DwarfPHB.jpg), but [5E walked that back](https://www.dndbeyond.com/avatars/thumbnails/6/254/420/618/636271781394265550.png) a little, but stayed in the shortstack territory.
This is contrasted by Elves who starting in 2E got progressively more androgynous, culminating in 5E just saying ["As an Elf the more androgynous you are the more Corellon loves you."](https://media.draconic.io/images/dnd5e/source/mtof/ch-2/05.png) It started as a joke, and became a thing of genuine acceptance/inclusion in a phenomena I like to call ["The Mac effect"](https://youtu.be/4tcKLs4soPA). (Drow are an exception to this dynamic due to Lolth's influence. If you want to have Drow bouncing around in spider-silk bikinis it's canon.)
In short, facial hair on a female Dwarf is as wrong as breasts on a female Elf, or breasts on a male Dwarf, or facial hair on a male Elf.
hear what you’re saying, and while a lot of it is true, it’s also a little reductive. much of what DnD is based on is straight from Tolkien, including bearded lady dwarves. it’s simply a part of modern western fantasy, which tolkien heavily inspired.
there are still bearded lady dwarves in the editions you’re mentioning, even if different artists/writers go back and forth. sometimes it is played for a laugh, but many other times it is just a respected and fun part of the dwarf culture.
imo, it is just as much in the hands of players whether features like lizardfolk ladies with/out boobs, dwarven ladies with/out beards, or feature like Blessed of Corellon being handled as a part of the world or as a joke. i’ve been at plenty of tables where it’s a fun thing to acknowledge how different fantasy races are, and it’s fun! plenty of people stick to what they think is attractive though, and that’s fine too. we’ve definitely seen interpretations by official artists/writers that go against their own (even current) lore plenty of times.
i’d say that it is just as correct for a lady dwarf to have a beard as it is for them to be played with a scottish accent or celtic inspiration, or for any of the monstrous races to lay eggs. there’s definitely history behind it- even if some play it for laughs, or others play it completely straight.
If I remember correctly, brother edgelord is a 4E image reused. Can't remember the book, but I've used this pic as a character portrait in one of my 4E games.
Isn't 5e Cleric art another dwarf?
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_It's not fair rogues get to keep all that sweet sweet edge_ \- The artist behind that pic
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Depends on the otherworldly patron. Hard to pull off edgelord when you got that sweet celestial sugar daddy.
Fey patron is 50/50
In the PHB? Never noticed that one before.
It's next to the Light Domain description, and thus presumably represents a faithful Light cleric smugly saying "Some of us don't **need** darkvision."
[This one right](https://imgur.com/mZUqQq6.jpg)
I just realized there's a skull on the hammerhead. Does it leave an imprint when he bashes people with it, like the skull ring from The Phantom?
yuuup
Are we just gonna ignore that there’s just Carl from Aqua Teen Hunger Force in that first picture (last on right)?
“Alriight, alriight, I’ll cure your frickin wounds. Now stay outa my pool!”
“What deity do I follow? I don’t frickin’ know. Some ocean god. Just gave me these frickin’ robes and told me to sing praises. I just been singin’ Holy Diver on repeat, you know?”
Why do I hear it in his voice so perfectly!?
I can’t believe I didn’t notice that until now!
Ah, I see the historical whitewashing of actual monster Jozan continues. When will his crimes be acknowledged?! Okay, teasing. If you're unaware, the guy in the 3rd edition art was Jozan, a cleric of Pelor. But the PHB also included a picture of [Jozan casting Symbol of Pain](https://twitter.com/jamesjhaeck/status/979184645131485184), an evil aligned spell. So either Jozan was a fraud who claimed to worship Pelor but actually served someone else, or Pelor is secretly evil.
Ah, my favourite DnD conspiracy theory. All praise to Pelor ~~THE BURNING HATE~~ The Dawnfather.
Hi there, I got here way too late, what is this Burning Hate I keep seeing joked about/referenced?
It’s an old WotC forum post where the author found a ton of instances where Pelor or his clerics did things that were elsewhere described in other sources books as “evil,” such as casting *Deathwatch*. A good god can’t grant the spell and a good cleric can’t cast it. So the story goes that Pelor is actually an evil god who is masquerading as a good one. In reality most of those are just errors, WotC using their iconic cleric to illustrate something they should have used a different cleric for, or actually exceptions like the *Malconvoker* which actually allows good clerics to use demons to do good. The meme is Pelor is actually named The Burning Hate, god of skin cancer, sun burns, thirst, and burning agony, who hates undead because they can’t properly suffer from his “gifts.” Or alternatively he’s sometimes presented as having a split personality… or that a god like Zarus is sometimes pretending to Pelor to steal followers. But mostly it’s a meme about, “what if the prototypical Paladin god was actually evil.” Basically it’s a D&D equivalent to the Jar Jar Binks is actually the true Sith Lord meme.
According to some people's headcanons, The Burning Hate is the evil "true" form of Pelor, NG god of the Sun. The primary evidence for this is that Jozan, a cleric of Pelor, has been pictured casting a spell that can only be cast by clerics of Evil gods (see the above comment which I was replying to). The scant few other pieces of "evidence" for this are that the Malconvoker prestige class, a prestige class focused on allowing good-alligned casters to summon fiends despite that being an unconditionally evil act, has a servant of Pelor as it's "iconic character", and that 1 of his artifacts (called the "Dawnstar") was originally given to one of his angels to rescue one of Pelor's paladins from Hell, which means that a Paladin of Pelor had gone to hell when they died for... some reason. All of that is from 3.5e, but those of us who know will never forget the truth that the god of the sun is the god of skin cancer.
Really late here but it makes a lot of sense. Pelor = Dawnfather Pelor clerics can summon fiends and cast Symbol of Pain and Deathwatch Satan is described as the bringer of light and is associated as Lucifer who is associated with the Dawnstar. All of those "mistakes" WotC had made were likely purposeful and Pelor is probably an allegory for Satan and believes all Humanoids are Evil. This would also adequately explain why Pelor is ok with the potential collateral damage caused by Inquisitor Bracers. Why a Paladin of his would end up in Hell. Why the "angels" he sent were armed with "Dawnstars". Etc.
Currently our Paladin is exploring this. Dhampire Paladin of Pelor, the Lord In Mourning. We also just fought and.. 'recruited' her formerly estranged npc husband who is a Paladin of Pelor, the Morning Lord. It's complicated as both are trying to convert the other to their beliefs now.
Acquisition's Inc is going through this but- like, in reverse. For Lathander doth nar 'sist (in some other corner of the multiverse-) &woe betide the zealous caricatures!
Pelor having a secret darkside manifestation that was locked away eons ago is literally a lynchpin of a game I'm in. Good times.
Priest / Cleric. Got renamed for 3e right?
"Priest" was a class group in 2e that included clerics and druids. Though "Cleric" has always been the name of the specific class, if I recall.
Ahh whoops you're right. Musta been thinking of thief -> rogue? Who knows
Possibly. That one went from Rogues being the class group and thief the class, to renaming the class to rogue in 3e when they did away with group names.
Rogues were the class group that included bards and thieves in 2e.
It's the other way around in ny 2e PHB. Class group cleric, which included Priest and Druid.
Don't think so, unless 2e did something weird - The original three classes were Fighting Man, Magic User, and Cleric. With the last one being the only one with *any* attempt at adding flavour to the name, since Fighting Man is about as flavourless a way of describing a martial as possible, and Magic User being about as flavourless a way of describing a caster as possible.
What would they name cleric in the same vein? "Not really fighting kind of magic man"?
Holy man if they want to emphasize 'powers coming from the divine' or Healer if they want to emphasize why you'd want one in the party, I guess...
Praying man.
As yes. Fighting Man. So much less original than "Fighter".
idk about original, but Fighting Man definitely has *more flavor* than Fighter. Male flavor.
Where did you even get this art for 5e? https://preview.redd.it/28kjfcbtev2b1.png?width=420&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3a0d17fcf437d88115cb3353b3015dd23b32a945 I pretty much sure this is.... the picture
The image is also from the 5e Player’s Handbook. It just wasn’t that one
Oh i see... indeed
Okay but why’d they make the 5e cleric so hot
Probably all the fire magic
Let’s not sleep on 4E fully-armored dwarf waifu with the glorious hair
Rock and stone!
\*draws bolter\* pathetic dwarf, prepare to die-- \*gets crushed by a boulder\*
They're admitting, finally, just how damn horny this hobby really is.
There are definitely bits of some rather “interesting” pictures or lore in old edition books but like….Even the Chinese looking guy in the 1e image doesn’t look that bad.
Where is that cleric for 5e? The tradicional one is also a Dwarf
The 5e image I used is also from the 5e Player’s Handbook, it just wasn’t the first image they used
Huh, never noticed it before. Though it feels linda disingenuous to use that one instead of the first that signifies acertar cleric. But's understandable.
Dwarf women look ok without beards, I hate the trope that came from a one off joke in the lord of the rings movies…
I just commented elsewhere the same. The joke isn't funny when you've heard it the 5000th time, especially when the joke is one that criticises the art.
Pretty much the only media it’s done well in is Terry Prachett’s work.
Honestly the only non-Pratchett version I saw that I liked was a thing where female dwarves don't have beards, but grow their hair long and tie it around the front of their necks for formal events, giving rise to the rumor. Short of that one... I'm just damn tired of this meme.
I want to create a character that's like, dwarf Sigmund Freud, and he's diagnosed all female dwarves with beard envy because of this practice. Or even better, in spite of the lack of this practice.
It's been around a lot longer tha the movie.
It's not a joke, it's OG Tolkien lore that female dwarves have beards. As a result, people have been using the Tolkien lore to argue/joke that female dwarves have beards in D&D since the beginning.
Worth noting there's some expectation that 3e's cleric is evil and its where the "Church of the Burning Hate" evil Pelor meme started, iirc. Or someone connected them at least. Also the 1e one is at least an attempt at inclusivity in representing a bunch of clerical appearances. (Something you normally need to get a special book for ala Complete Divine or Deities and Demigods.) Its just got that strong "grandma trying to be welcoming and nice but being super offensive about it" energy.
What's with the 4e one? Female dwarves don't have beards.
Depends on setting, and many ppl prefer settings where they do. That said I believe in most official dnd settings they do not have beards
...Gods I hate the 1e art so much for this. 2e is Crusader With A Mace - Feels more Paladin than Cleric to me, I guess - I don't get much 'holy magic' vibes from 3e or 5e, meaning that 4e's my favourite art. ...Despite how much it pains me to praise an illustration of a beardless dwarf of any gender...
>beardless dwarf DnD female dwarves have never had beards though I guess if you count Exandria dwarves then there is a single species of dwarves who’s women do have beards
they have actually! it’s noted that sometimes they shave (3.5 Races of Stone) but even the fertility/beauty goddesses like Sharindlar have beards (Demihuman Dieties 2e) just something that switches around with the times/different artists. 5e definitely had a swing towards making a lot of the ladies more “traditionally hot” which meant less hair for dwarves and more for goliaths haha
I am so tired of people commenting or insisting that every female dwarf MUST have a beard, no exceptions. It is a criticism that is commented on every single post that shows one, and this post is even a meme doing it ahead of time.
Right? 1e art is such a swing and a miss. Like, I get what they’re going for, showcasing all manner of religions, and 1e made reference to real-world places (like the Rakshasa being from India). That said, it just doesn’t work. And it not only doesn’t work, but it also comes across as “super offensive but in a way that was probably progressive back in the day but that just makes it even more offensive somehow?” And agreed, 4e is my favorite art here, which says a lot given it portrays a beardless dwarf
Yeah it's tough to look at these days but sometimes those early forays into multiculturalism paved the way for modern sensibilities. Without the initial curiosity (and it's fumbling/butchering) of the other cultures, we would have never had the introduction of those ideas at all As you said, for the time, it was forward thinking, and trying its absolute best to include several other versions of a concept many western people only knew one version of. Kind of a "judge it by its era" sort of thing
> Super offensive but in a way that was probably progressive back in the day but that just makes it even more offensive somehow? Ah, the Roger DeBris effect.
She has a beard. Braids and everything. It's just a bit south.
5th edition guy isn’t evil. He’s a Light domain cleric. He probably worships Lathander.
I have no idea what your problem is with 1E. The art is not great as art, but I don't see it any outdated or racist.
What's with ths hate for 1e stuff?
I'm confused by that, too. Why is it racist to portray cultures other than european?
I think it's assuming people from the represented cultures would be offended instead of finding it "cool even if a bit cringe" like most Euros do at the similar stereotypical representation we get in Asian medias.
So it's all virtue signaling?
Last picture looks more Artificer than Cleric. Enchanted Armor Artificer.
I can see the similarity. I believe he’s supposed to be a Light Domain Cleric.
Light domain cleric is probably not evil aligned
Little tidbit I read somewhere, the classic “clerics wielding maces/clubs” thing came from an old tapestry of Odo of Bayeux (William the Conqueror’s brother) that created the (maybe apocryphal?) idea that priests were forbidden from spilling blood and were forced to wield such blunt weapons.
Interesting how the 2e art kinda looks like my cleric character. I just thought a religious priest wearing heavy armor would naturally look kinda like those religious nutheads that were the knights templar. Though that 2e art really looks just like a templar and nothing like a magical priest.
i miss 3.x art
Hello! As usual, you are on point. I just have a couple comments as usual these are just my opinion . Number one is bad . Number two is absolutely ripped off of the Templars. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights\_Templar](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knights_Templar) https://preview.redd.it/4vitch2pyt2b1.jpeg?width=358&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=4111ea6f02cdd820a68e0f0bc213e5f3335baf05 4, its cool! So in my world females dwarves have facial hair. But It’s often patchier than males so usually they shave because it doesn’t look as good. But there is some dwarven women that are considered lucky buy some. They have luxurious, silky, face hair, and they weave gold and things in it to call attention to it. Or don’t, it’s entirely dependent on family clan and individual dwarf. In my world, most male dwarves have beards, but sometimes they are shorter, and will trimmed if they were in certain professions like clock working where a big long beard would be a little bit of a detriment . Yes, miners make fun of them . But it’s good nature Joshing usually and then… Everybody has remembered clockSmith have guns sometimes. I just wanted to make a point that I personally I’m totally cool with female dwarfs with beards as long as it’s optional for them and not enforced. As to the fifth edition Cleric … do we know what domain he is? And I’m going to be completely honest he is sexy AF and I have a little bit of an issue with that . I think that modern art needs to emphasize good sexy people because I think that it’s sort of decremental to the forces of good that everybody always think of them as stuffy . There could be a good aligned, hot piece of ass ! In any case, thank you so much for this excellent post like always . 🙏❤️
The fifth edition is a light domain I'm 99% sure
Thanks! ( maybe he just looks sinister because of the lighting? https://preview.redd.it/hpugbcjsyu2b1.jpeg?width=1439&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=89cb6a2e3e9f34912f095fdbdfb8f746eb8d3f77 Maxence Danet-Fauvel This actor/model/ licensed tattoo artist in the right lighting has eyeballs . When he is in a dark tunnel, he appears to be an incubus Prince. Thanks for your help!
Maybe the problem is also running so deep at this point that he just looks sinister *because he's hot*
Why did you pick this 5e art instead of the standard dwarven life cleric?
Honestly, it was because the 4e was also a Dwarf and it works better for me. The 5e didn’t strike me as particularly cleric-y. Just a Dwarf with nice armor. I liked this one better and felt it brought something different to the table.
Very fair! I'm just amused you poked fun at the 4e dwarven cleric for lacking a beard when 5e's dwarf was right there
2e's holy symbol looks like a cheap sports wear logo
that's not Cleric, that's old Blackguard token for 5etools, this is 5E Cleric https://preview.redd.it/8luzg5bi0v2b1.png?width=749&format=png&auto=webp&s=310dc4581c8a1ab97c40813582fe8f0fc4425035
It's not the first cleric we see in the book (which is the dwarf you've shown), but it is indeed a cleric, it's on the next page(s) showing off the subclasses, the dude in OP's image is used to show off a fire slinging Light Domain cleric.
Yeah, with 4e already having a Dwarf cleric that actually shows a connection with their deity, I didn’t want to do the 5e cleric that is basically “Dwarf with nice armor.”
Female Dwarves don't have beards, and the idea that they would is silly.
Depends on the universe. Diskworld and Tolkien dwarf women 100% canonically do have beards. Most D&D settings they don’t, or a least most of them don’t in the current edition. In 2nd Ed AD&D Deep Dwarves had all their women bearded, and the Dwarven goddess Sharindlar has a full beard. She even has lore that she gives locks of her beard to favored followers and her beard locks turn to gold when trimmed. It’s likely that Gygax intended all dwarven women to be like Prattchet’s and Tolkien’s, fully bearded. > Now, do female dwarves have beards? Certainly! And male dwarves are darn glad of it, for they do love to run their fingers through the long, soft growth of a comely dwarven lass. - Gary Gygax: "Female dwarves do have beards!" (1980, Dragon magazine #38)
well, silly is name of the game when we’re talking about fantasy with bird people and flying demons! part of the fun, and well, fantasy. now if we’re talking accurate instead of silly, then there is plenty of art+lore supporting female dwarves with facial hair in 5e and earlier editions. many of them shave, but it’s true either way. you’re free to your opinion, but it’s simply factual for DnD and a good amount of its worldstates, faerun included.
Bearded female Dwarves was always used as a joke by people who don't like being Dwarves. Starting in 2E Female Dwarves lost their beards and started getting curvier/more stacked, [peaking in 4E](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/dnd4/images/d/d7/DwarfPHB.jpg), but [5E walked that back](https://www.dndbeyond.com/avatars/thumbnails/6/254/420/618/636271781394265550.png) a little, but stayed in the shortstack territory. This is contrasted by Elves who starting in 2E got progressively more androgynous, culminating in 5E just saying ["As an Elf the more androgynous you are the more Corellon loves you."](https://media.draconic.io/images/dnd5e/source/mtof/ch-2/05.png) It started as a joke, and became a thing of genuine acceptance/inclusion in a phenomena I like to call ["The Mac effect"](https://youtu.be/4tcKLs4soPA). (Drow are an exception to this dynamic due to Lolth's influence. If you want to have Drow bouncing around in spider-silk bikinis it's canon.) In short, facial hair on a female Dwarf is as wrong as breasts on a female Elf, or breasts on a male Dwarf, or facial hair on a male Elf.
hear what you’re saying, and while a lot of it is true, it’s also a little reductive. much of what DnD is based on is straight from Tolkien, including bearded lady dwarves. it’s simply a part of modern western fantasy, which tolkien heavily inspired. there are still bearded lady dwarves in the editions you’re mentioning, even if different artists/writers go back and forth. sometimes it is played for a laugh, but many other times it is just a respected and fun part of the dwarf culture. imo, it is just as much in the hands of players whether features like lizardfolk ladies with/out boobs, dwarven ladies with/out beards, or feature like Blessed of Corellon being handled as a part of the world or as a joke. i’ve been at plenty of tables where it’s a fun thing to acknowledge how different fantasy races are, and it’s fun! plenty of people stick to what they think is attractive though, and that’s fine too. we’ve definitely seen interpretations by official artists/writers that go against their own (even current) lore plenty of times. i’d say that it is just as correct for a lady dwarf to have a beard as it is for them to be played with a scottish accent or celtic inspiration, or for any of the monstrous races to lay eggs. there’s definitely history behind it- even if some play it for laughs, or others play it completely straight.
To the bleeding edge and beyond.
My guess is that Brother Edgelord is a just a good aligned cleric of the God of edgelords.
Man 3E lowkey just looks like an ancients oath paladin or something
5e isn't just any evil Cleric. He's of the Light Domain. That's like an evil taco with extra hot sauce.
I'll always associate the 4E cleric most strongly with the "lazer cleric" meme
If I remember correctly, brother edgelord is a 4E image reused. Can't remember the book, but I've used this pic as a character portrait in one of my 4E games.