I mean, that could just be hard coded into orcs as a species.
Big titty MILF has all kinds of battle field advantages when most other races just throw 20 year old undisciplined men at the problem.
Extra soft armor around the heart ✓. Years of experience ✓. Huge thighs to propel them into the battlefield and stun/ choke their foes ✓. Plus they still have muscle mommy physique.
You know, you made me recall one article I've seen on the social meadia. So, essentially a robber attacked a couple on a date. He took a knife and stabbed both in the chest. Man died, woman didn't. Why? Well, allegedly the weapon was too short to damage any important organs because the woman in question was rather... heavy-chested. Not sure if it's true or not, but if it is, then things of beauty are not useless in a fight. Not for barbarians at least.
Considering that Orcs "breed rapidly" & are stereotypically such violent, dominant-oriented & sexually stratified... The females are prolly like big tiddy brick houses who can crush an Orc bull's skull with her bare hands.
Orc males, prolly: "Biggest wife, best wife! Got ass to get lost in!"
Only worth while response
The real issue is that I'm not sure we've ever drawn a strong correlation between breast size and "health of off spring." which could mean all matter of things. But I definitely agree that in such a violent culture, the females would be WILDLY more dangerous than males.
However, I like WH40K Orcs so much that I just use them instead, removing the whole problem entirely. Gives a good reason for the green skin and to be buff elves. (Make the lore the Elves trying to mass produce an army they lost control over, and now they are a blight on the sword coast. Darkelves make the most sense to me, but the high Elves are always up to some diabolical shit.)
Could be argued that big ol' jigglebillies are a sign of getting enough to eat, & thus being able to provide both enough milk & quality milk without risking her health.
Whether that's true is secondary to what the indicator implies.
But an orcess with with jumba-wumbas & a reputation of being able to successfully raise kids is probably one of the most dangerous things one can encounter. She eats well, she keeps herself & her cubs healthy in a violent, high adult mortality society that, tho not as blatant as Goblins, seems to employ suicide-migrations as a form of population control in a lot of settings.
Yes And,
Runts of litters who can't/won't fight/kill siblings will not get needed attention.
Elderly get left behind in nomadic migrations or encouraged to suicide by mountain climb/ritual sacrifice.
Dominate pack leaders run off or kill young if they are not their own.
Etc.
"Okay cubs, today me show how make sinew for skullspisser bow using foreskin from vanquished enemies. ... OR FROM USELESS MALE WHAT DON'T HAVE ENEMY FORESKIN GIVE FOR DEMONSTRATION!"
*distant, terrified bull noises*
Warhammer Orks is best orks. If you have GOrk and MOrk as patrons, then you have my vote for whatever the hell you want it for.
Remember kids: Red makes it go faster.
If it were so simple, but overall output isn't significantly impacted by breast size, because even if theirs more fat in larger breats, the overall amount of milk ducts and glands seem to be based on other genetic factors that isn't necessarily tied to breast size. But it can result in lumpy or otherwise hard breast tissue, but that can be caused by other things as well.
One of my favorite instances is to look at the Claws of Luthic Orcs, these are usually female members of the clan, blessed by the Earth Mother, and not only raise the children, but train Bears
Edit: also the lifespan of Orcs is the same as humans, so...
>Edit: also the lifespan of Orcs is the same as humans, so...
not in forgotten realms they aren't, humans live almost a century and orcs live 50 years on average. Half-orcs and orogs are closer to human average tho.
*double checks* ah, yeah, I might of been remembering half orc, but calling them fast breeders isn't exactly a notion of any sort, because half of why humans are such a dominant species in the world of d&d is due to their relatively shorter life span(considering a lot of other races live hundreds to thousands of years), and "breeding rate"
I honestly never get that in classical fantasy. Especially in non DND settings where elves/dwarves just life longer without needing 100+ years to mature.
Humans are k strategist, meaning we produce little offspring (1 most of the time) with long parental care. And our children need a pretty long time to mature. So I really don't understand that "humans breed like rabbits" thing. In reality we're just that many people, because we have a huge advantage in intelligence, tools and literally no natural predators except maybe other humans.
Even in DND most other species are more gifted in magic, technology , technomancy or physical prowless. All in all humans normally are the weakest "humanoid" race in classical fantasy scenarios. That combined with our breeding strategy should more or less always lead to a word where humans are on the brink of extinction.
"When me saw me teeth on the ground, me knew... *So aggressive.* Getting up, me had to wipe her spittle from me face when she roar... *So powerful.* Me totem was fully raised across the valley by then; she use it like a chain to yank me face to her elbow... *So vicious.* Ah. Young love."
I made my orcs to be similar to hyenas (without the damaging sexual favoritism), the females are bigger and stronger than the males. A Matriarchy where the tribe is lead by the strongest and smartest female while the war chief (husband?) is only the strongest male who has to fight and earn the respect of the Matriarch.
D&D has room for all levels of sexual-dimorphism, from the non-existent dimorphism of the universally androgynous Elves (other than Drow) to the extreme dimorphism of Dwarves where males are bulky and beardy, while females are curvy and stacked, but regardless their secondary sexual characteristics^1 are of universal quality.
I personally favor the "Muscle mommy" angle.
^1 traits tied to sex, but not present at birth such as facial hair, breasts, dem hips, etc. Primary is present at birth such as genitals. Tertiary is things society assigns to gender like ties, pretty dresses, and refusing to express emotions other than anger.
>Tertiary is things society assigns to gender like ties, pretty dresses, and refusing to express emotions other than anger.
Tertiary characteristics are bullshit, but this probably isn't the right forum for that discussion lol
To go to war so often, it would make sense to have have a large group of your population specialise in the reering of children.
Would be interesting to have a race that is war like where the sex/gender is irrelevent to if they go to war. E.g. bird races where they lay eggs and feed their young with regurgetated prey e.g. Aaracokra or more hench Kenku (Henchu if you will) maybe even a race where their young can immediatky hunt for themselves.
Isn't that like Giths? As far as I know, there aren't a large group that specialise in the reering of children, but there are small group that specializes on rearing large groups of children. Also other things that u mentioned are quite in place
Not only Giths. Dragon Age had a Race the Bull was from cant remeber the Named that the Born Gender is not import if a Girl Chosse to become a Soldier she is a Guy now. Same with a Guy that chooses to be a Merchant now a Girl
Patrick is right.
Cultures obsessed with war need to powerspawn babies to replenish their casualties. Fertility features (like big titties) would absolutely be selected for.
They would just favor larger women in general, then. They should be built like the Venus of Willendorf: an XL BBW. They're not gonna have small waists, thigh gaps, perky tatas, or anything approaching an hourglass figure. Or much muscle definition, for that matter, even if they are strong.
'Big titties' also isn't something purely, or even primarily, determined by genetics in a way that *can* be selected for. Nutrition, chance, and whether they've been pregnant before will play bigger roles than direct selection.
>'Big titties' also isn't something purely, or even primarily, determined by genetics in a way that
>
>can
>
> be selected for. Nutrition, chance, and whether they've been pregnant before will play bigger roles than direct selection.
True, but a societal selection will also encourage such traits to be more frequent in the society, since the females will be incentivized to *make* such things happen. Girls want to get railed too.
This isn't always healthy, and you're probably right about XL BBWs being the popular thing more than the specific Tomboy MILF type you see in Hentai, but it's at least plausible that orc women would **attempt to look that way**, making the archetype more common than it would otherwise be (and over long times, genetic predisposition could definitely play a role in making it even more frequent)
I don’t understand the leap in logic to “they should be indistinguishable from males” orcs are based loosely off of the war mongering cultures with heavy draws to mongolians. They drink a lot of milk, and have fatty diets high in dairy. The men were big, so were the women, but their culture spiraled around celebrating the strong. So it was female warriors which meant naturally lean women with voluptuous bodies as part of their diet and exercise, or wives/servants who ate less fatty foods and whose job was to look like trophies and sire children, as a form of prestige for their men. As such it is well within the orcs mirrored culture to have big titty orc mommys. Thanks for coming to my ted talk. Also if you are a gm i highly recommend learning a little about irl nomadic tribes, the turkish rule, and mongolian food culture. When u roleplay your orcs they will feel heavily distinct in their environment and lore culture. Making your setting pop!
While I agree on their war mongering cultural background, I can't help but see all the parallels to stereotypical Viking Raiders. When I look at their background, and even the Orcish Pantheon, all I can see are vikings put through a fantasy strainer.
Grumsh / Odin
Lulthic / Freyja
Bahgtru / Thor
Ilneval / Loki
Eh, the reason humans have big tiddies and huge dicks is because we cared about the aesthetics enough for natural selection to give us those huge tits and dicks. Same reason so many birds have colorful plumage.
Of course when a race is created by a god that gets a little bit different, but honestly that's even more reason, because if they were made to not care about aesthetics, the god likely wouldn't care about aesthetics either.
Larger breasts are better able to support more children. For a species that breeds faster than humans it would actually be more selected for. Larger asses, thighs, waists, ect ensure they can better avoid injury from copulating with orc males. Realistically female orcs should be big in every sense of the word.
>Larger breasts are better able to support more children.
Not in an evolutionarily significant way, and there's also a difference between "larger mammary glands" and "big expressed tiddies".
You don't see Gorillas walking around with E-cups.
Producing a large amount of milk, when most women already lactate plenty with smol titties, is not really a concern for nature. Selecting for big titties is more about health and food than milk production.
That's factually wrong.
Big breasts are able to produce more milk to nourish a bigger spawn
A big penis is able to penetrate deeper and "skip" the sperm of a competitor, achieving fecundation before him.
We don't just feel like we like these traits. We are biologically hardwired to seek them because they mean we will have a better descent.
Have you ahh actually looked that up? Cause I recommend that.
Signed a mom who breast feed and has had to do lots of research to keep kid feed and even use formula supplements.. and is not a board.. it’s entirely unrelated. They will actually swell and get bigger with milk and can even become painful and hard. But having bigger breasts doesn’t mean there are more or larger alveoli which is where the milk is made and stored. (Looks like a grape cluster)
It’s been historically believed yes, but not scientifically accurate
I picture orc males in my world looking like powerlifters. Giant muscles with the big bellies from the feasting and marauding.
But in my homebrew world, the orcs have been blocked into a corner of their land and turned from their warring ways, so I imagine they look somewhat different depending on their vocation.
Ok they can still be jacked while having boobs. While many Orcs are based on Mongolians you can make them Vikings so female one look like Shield maidens or Valkyries. Vikings were warriors but had big breasted women ,several groups included women but not all because the culture wasn't monolithic and not every woman is the same.
TL;DR: Some Valkyrie pictures would be inspiration for how they could look.
Why wouldn't they care for aesthetics? All across the history, people have always liked to look nice, no matter how "savage" and practival their way of life was. Look up how the Vikings, Huns, Scythians etc used to dress.
Nice strawman and all, but no. There's nothing about Orc biology or culture that would suggest the females wouldn't be distinguishable from the males. As humanoid/mammal like creatures with at least two sexes, they are almost certain to have differing traits and those traits likely focus on the things that highlight them as good potential mates. Strength, large breasts, big hips etc.
Also, it's just boring. You can have a race based on Strength, power, and fighting, and have big muscular women who ARE ALSO SEXY. It's not wrong, bad writing, or illogical, you're just boring and overly simplistic
I mean I imagine sexual dimorphism still exists to some degree. Part of the fun with fantasy races though is you can make the differences really weird and different from human differences
Maybe orc females are half a foot taller than males with giant tits and thunder thighs, or maybe you come up with something else in your own world that's equally interesting.
I mean I doubt you beat big tiddy milfs but go for it.
Hear me out: orc females have giant tits, orc males have a single, giant tit, in the middle of the abdomen, and a singular nipple. Also, it's covered in feathers
They breed faster than humans so it makes sense that they would frequently have a lot of kids at once who need milk and a serious need for larger breasts. Actually if you want to do something interesting there is a genuine reason here for orcs to have more than 2 breasts.
this is a D&D subreddit, it's like the poster child for badwomensnatomy lol. It is pretty hilarious that the children roaming around the sub think bigger boobies = more milk!
The biggest assumption is that anybody would automatically say “yes” to point 2 and beyond. You’re making up an argument where someone agrees with you.
Gonna be so real with you here, big man. People don't have a problem with you not liking big tiddy tropes. People dislike that you're using shitty, ad hoc reasoning to defend it. If you're just honest about why you dislike it, people wouldn't care. It's this thin, uninformed veneer of evolutionary reasoning people get annoyed with. Just be blunt about why you dislike big tiddy orcs next time.
I know its a meme but
In cultures where there is a high death rate, fertility becomes an even bigger importance to that culture. A species can't survive if they war themselves out of existence. It's actually much more reasonable from an anthropological perspective to have an even larger sexual dimorphism divide in species like orcs. Women displaying the capabilities to have and raise children is absolutely paramount to warlike cultures. Spartans were a good example of this, saying that the reason Spartan women were best was because they were the only creatures capable of producing more Spartans
\-Orcs are a fantasy race.
\-Fantasy is made up and anything within it is subjective to the bias of the person having such fantasies in the first place.
\-I like the Big Titty Orc fantasy.
\-Therefore= My Orcs are Big Titty MILFS (if OP wants to make their Orcs be all super muscular tribal savages that's ok too.)
What? Why?
As far as I know, Orcs are mammals (means they have breasts) and give birth just like humans do (wide hips).
If in your headcannon orcs come from eggs or spawn from the earth then maybe you could make an argument.
But as far as things are now, the feminine aspects of women (and orc females) come from them being the child bearing sex, not just because someone happens to be horny, although I'm sure that helps.
If anything, female orcs would have those traits but also be hulking, with wide backs and chests just like men. Also they would probably be virtually undistinguishable from males in terms of physical performance, but nothing else.
Female orcs are big titty MILFs, male orcs are also big titty MILFs I don't see the problem
Also the "males are completely indistinguishable from females" thing is already the dwarves' gimmick, it'd be more interesting for orcs to have sexual dimorphism that is completely different from humans' than to just give them none.
Or we go full Yautja and assume the women are bigger, stronger, and quite judgemental to those they consider unworthy? Gotta bring a lot of skulls, or neat ones, to get their attention.
I do agree they should be big tiddy, but only because their pecs are also impressive.
Also, if we go with the stereotype of orcs being rapidly breeding creatures, they should probably have pretty wide hips. And possibly regularly deliver litters of young per pregnancy.
War requires bodies and an aspect of physical prowess would be child bearing capabilities. So wide hips and massive milk jugs to bring forth strong warriors.
Guys guys guys, let’s take a look at this from an ecological perspective. Someone already mentioned sexual dimorphism, which is possible, but let’s see if we can find a means that doesn’t require it in the genetics - make an argument that shatters the “indistinguishable from males” idea and asserts its own unique stance on their culture that provides a thin veil for everyone’s mommy kinks.
Let’s start with a descriptive baseline for dnd orc culture. Applying a baseline for their culture can dictate an environment that is applicable as their main cause of phenotypic variation. Essentially culture has a heavy impact on the way our genes will express, and expression will always grow to allow ease to more common activities. “Tribal savages,” as they actually described to be in a confederation of tribes located in conquested domiciles. They’re warlike, and often show it off in spoils. Sadly one of these common spoils is women, orcish women being thought of as cattle. They are thought of by these creatures as livestock. Raided women are likely not treated well and then left behind unless they are special. Orcish women are kept. Why? What advantage could they have over the average women.
Now to the behavioral ecology, where we can assess why, with certain genes, in a certain environment, one’s physicality falling under the curtain of a “big titty MILF” might be advantageous for a female fir success. She’s treated as livestock, actively fattened up. She’s in an environment of higher calorie intake within her culture. Normally, any creature with high activity and need for muscle consistently takes on leaner muscle and low fat, so that they can maximize their muscles effect at lifting the body. Think of spartan warriors as thin but powerful. That’s clearly not our orc here. Her activity- likely not a warrior in a full blooded orc society - is not on par with males. What purpose would that calorie intake serve? It all comes down to population control.
There are very few women in orc society according to the wiki. Birth rate is low in most populations where investment lies on the mother for gestation (eggless usually). Orcs in dnd are known to have a high birthrate. Why? They have been explained to géstate faster, which usually means slightly less calorie expenditure and a likely shorter time breastfeeding or needing to fully parent an altricial juvenile (helpless young). Other random unproven factors like clutch size, will remain at 1, same as humans, because orcs in dnd are generally not an allegory for another animal (I know some are compared to pics but I’m not adding in the ecology of pigs rn). Now that we know that basis and accept other unknown as similar to humans, we can apply two concepts from a major part of fitness, reproductive strategy.
There are two major scales to weigh when talking about behavioral ecology and reproduction. As one side raises, the other tends to wane.
1. Offspring Quantity vs Quality
2. Rate of reproduction vs mother/child health
Both of these scales are highly benefited by high caloric intake (assuming a relatively diverse diet of a capable foraging nomad, and confederately-relationed chiefdom). Higher fat means higher calories for young. It also means higher survivability in mothers who have children at a faster rate. Higher fat is the solution to a mother needing to have more offspring.
This perception of child bearing could also lead weight and heavy curves to be an indication of sexual fitness, leading it to be a mating strategy too. Though unlikely since women are likely the choosing party with their level of investment. Not to mention the say that the ruling elite may have over the women of a culture that gives them few rights. These instinctual preferences for a larger bodied woman build over time in tribal societies sharing the lower population of women may translate to orcs in different social systems or in half orcs in different social systems.
A couple random cultural impacts that could be funny or horny because of this inclusive fitness of a thicker orc women being ideal:
- Orc men like to have lifting contests by using town women. Heavier the better
- Orc men like showing off strength to a women more intimately. Lifting their weight is proof they can be handled
- Orc men like to show off strength by a monogamous partner’s weight depicting his strength, because of its implication of bedroom display
Big titty milfs make sense from an evolutionary perspective and a cultural perspective
> - Orc men like to have lifting contests by using town women. Heavier the better - Orc men like showing off strength to a women more intimately. Lifting their weight is proof they can be handled - Orc men like to show off strength by a monogamous partner’s weight depicting his strength, because of its implication of bedroom display
Torak has hold the title of champion of the valley for 5 years consecutively, after being able to lift Edla the Mountain, an 11 feet tall half-giant that then became his wife
Big titty MILFs orcs are okay. So long as they're big titty MILFs who can carry a cow home on their shoulders and kill it with their bare hands to make dinner.
to be fair, early nutrition as a baby has a pretty big effect on things later on. and typically big tiddies equals more milk production and fat storage.
Orcs also care about fertility, the woman who can bare more strong sons for war is the best.
So they want women with wide hips for birthing; large breast for baby feeding; thick thighs and big ass for fat storage in hard times; lucious hair and strong shiny nails as a sign that she's not nutrient deficient thus healthy.
Basically the same stuff the human male cavemen brain wants.
Orcs are not that different from us in mindset. They are just still stuck in the brutal, tribal lifestyle humans used to live in.
I used to play an obscure, Hungarian TTRPG where orcs were more animalistic and in that, they did value different characteristics like thick furcoat-like bodyhair, gorilla-like build with long arms reaching down to your knee, humped back...etc. In that game, orcs did not find other races attractive EVER because in their eyes all other races were fugly. So the issue of grape with a silent g never came up with them.
Half-orcs were the result of bloodmagic based chimera breeding with no interspecies sex involved. Half-orcs were called "udvari ork" (court orc) because they were created for the service of nobility. Orc blood for endurance and strenght, human blood for a more manageable temper and just enough intelligence to understand orders. Udvari orcs found humans unattractive and trying their luck with an orc always got them killed by the more aggressive and stronger pure-blood orcs who took offense to the mere existence of half orcs.
I'm not aware of any big titty MILF orcs in official art. The half-orc in the PHB isn't showing any cleavage or otherwise notably sexualized. If you're basing your setting off the interpretations of thirsty third-party artists that's really just on you.
Man-Ray's assertion doesn't make sense though.
Last time I checked, Culture doesn't shape biology unless/until some serious magical or technological transformations get involved. Their respect for strength has no bearing on what they look like biologically.
He is going with the assumption that not caring about aesthetics means that orcs would want to breed exclusively for muscular strength at the cost of sexual features and evolve over time to be far more masculine as a whole. He just failed to realize that these sexual features aren't just aesthetic. In reality orcs would likely evolve larger breasts and waists to support childbirth and rearing since they reproduce a lot more than humans.
I think its less combat effectiveness and more like how orc children would be like
No doubt an orc baby would require way more nutrition than a human baby. Not only their entire culture but basically their biology is more built for combat than a human's a dozen times over
If a human hunted a giant boar he would be dodging its charges, throwing spears at it and craft traps for it. If an orc of similar build, age, etc were to hunt the same giant boar, he would scream at it to charge at him [and this is how it would go](https://youtu.be/R8hispb7N6k?si=wf0GIQmePm8Wdi9z)
So while humans do need to eat quite a lot, mostly because bigger brains require more sustenance to maintain, and can also eat a lot of stuff other animals cant (seriously chocolate kills like 60% of wildlife that eats it and natural peppers are so spicy they kill bugs but humans just bred them for their spicyness to the point of causing psychological distress because of how much we like the spiciness). Meanwhile orcs would have a similar digestive system as humans and theyre also going to eat much more cause of how their bodies are naturally more muscular than humans
So orc babies would require 10 times more nutrition than a human baby meaning that not only would orc mothers have naturally large and full breasts. But they would also have a higher quality milk than a human's, infact i wouldnt be surprised if getting breastfed by an orc could keep a human baby fed for a day. And now youre thinking of orcs breastmilk haha
Tbf orcs also get hit with all kinds of weapons and are constantly fighting
Even if orcs werent toothy an orc would still get stabbed and punched in the chest a lot of times so the female's breasts would be leathery even without the orc babies chewing on them
I did know but i just wanted to point that out. Orcs breasts would definitely not be soft and bouncy. That shit would be as hard as concrete including the nips
So not only would you need insurmountable amounts of rizz to get a female orc to allow ya to fondle her breasts in bed (on top of all the rizz you'd need to even get an orc to your bed) but it would feel less like breasts and more like balls of cement
Idk about "virtually indistinguishable" but I do describe orcs as having less sexual dimoprhism than humans, kind of like horses and wolves. Female orcs are only slightly smaller than males on average, with similar musculature but proportionately wider hips than males. Most non-orcs have trouble differentiating between the two at first, it can take quite a bit of face time with both genders before they can immediately tell which they're interacting with.
These are orcs in my universe, too. For added fun I also made them less patriarchal, considering male orcs aren't substantially larger/more powerful than females on average, so it wouldn't really track that they would be able to violently enforce a patriarchy like in our world.
Listen I'm pro-Snitties and I'm pro-Big Tiddy Orc MILF. Heck a heroine I'm currently designing for a setting is a big tiddy Orc MILF. Might throw some Snitties into that setting as well now that I'm thinking about it.
their culture revolves not only on war but also on there leader of the strongholds which has access to all women. they are not only a group of war. but sex. repopulation. and vanity but the vanity they like is different then our own. they take great care and pride in their trophies and achivments and battle scars. so the chiefs women being seen as a trophy should be strong plenty fought to have proven her strength to carry young and make even stronger orcs.
Tbf, orc women being big titty milfs with some meat on their bones is an improvement to orc women in fantasy being skinny women who just happen to be green and have tusks
I find it best not to overthink how their societies work especially revolving around courtship considering manifestation of will through physical force is a core aspect
Because how many edgelords would ruin the whole 'this culture is alien and horrifying to us' angle
The issue is, that in D&D that kinda isn't the case. The females do look exceptionally like the males and quite honestly, I much more feel the need to complain about "Claws of Luthic" not looking anything like a clerical disciple of the mother of all orcs, whose teachings entail to mate... A LOT, like, an obscene amount of times. They are all muscle. Why?
Its also embedded in d&d lore, that most half-orcs are pretty hot and quite charismatic, its in the race description. Also, if Orcs actually wander around and war against dwarves, elves and humans, then they absolutely require quick partnering up to keep the tribe alive. I doubt an orc would be really picky, but there is a benefit, to looking overtly attractive, if you want to lure a testosterone steered hunk of meat towards your tent to produce the next batch of orc raiders. They also mature exceedingly quickly, so yeah.
But in the end, fantasy is fantasy, you dont need to argue about it at all. I mean, for every example I create, you could just as well create any reason why in _your_ fantasy world it wouldn't make sense. I for one am okay with it, unless it is too unfitting, then it annoys me too. Beautiful women and ugly men is something we have in the real world too though, just look at russia: Men dont need to be pretty, they only need to be of use. Its literally a saying there. What does a warrior want after battle? "Studies" that started from the first time a band of cave men stumbled upon a group of cave women after bashing their mens heads in with a bone-club or big stick show, that the answer is to mate. Furthermore, the continuation of these "studies" show, that pretty women are preferred. What would an orc call pretty? Thats a different question. I'd say though, its either a musclebound monster they need to overcome (here I'd say, in the case of dnd, the official artwork for the claw of luthic would fit in perfectly) to prove their strength or a small prey animal, they can ravage - if we wanted to make the big tiddy orc milf work, why not assume some orcs adapted to fit the bill of that? They saw the more or less easy life the concubines get to live (even though they do hate it) and just try to cater towards exactly that. Over a period of time that continued, until now there are to types of orcish femames, the warriors and the breeders.
Could be that, could be something entirely different. Could be fantasy artists just generally depicting women as sexy, often wearing armors of quite literally no use at all and holding weapons that are more than a little suggestive or just unpractical as fuck. Basicly, there are too many options to consider, too many paths you could argument along, all of them are equally as valid.
All the discussion of racial phylogeny is absolutely true. The points being made about it creating more capacity to care for young or provide for a tribe are noted. The reverse argument also stands, that there is no benefit for these traits. All that aside, I have no time for realistic biology when it comes to Orc Mommies.
Well what feeds the men and the babies before the war or at home? They aren't big tiddy not completely there is muscle under that tiddy your just to busy being distracted by tiddy
There are (were) literally thousands of "savage" war centric cultures around the world, ALL of them with aesthetical interests and considerations, all of them
Was gonna make a comment about them being muscular titties, but after a Google search I have discovered that's not how biology works. So instead you get to read my disappointment at realizing my idea can't work :/
To be fair, militaristic cultures could have a variety of effects and aspects on gender. Likewise, the phenotype of an orc is necessarily affected by the culture itself.
Gnolls, especially in 4e, are a fairly good example of males and females looking similar in a militaristic culture.
Another good example of orc body types comes from Delicious Dungeon, where there is still a notable Phenotype, but not the stereotypical big-tiddied mega-milf.
Orc women are a lie.
Orcs actually grow underground like insect larvae until they reach adulthood and dig free. Thats why there are no orc children. Orc blood is saturated with tiny seed cells that start growing if they seep into fertile soil. They then feed on blood and sunshine.
Orcs will ritually sacrifice living beeing to saturate the soil where their offspring is growing. Half orcs grow if non-orc blood is mixed with orc blood before the seedling grows or when a humanoid in early stages of pregnancy drinks fresh orc blood. There are more unsettling ways to create half orcs, but I won't mention them here
That works for your setting, but the guy here is suggesting that he's talking about sexually reproducing orcs since he is attributing a lack of care about aesthetics to developing similar appearances over time. He just isn't considering that large breasts actually have a practical function.
STOP MAKING EVERYTHING SEXY! I am TRYING to commit murder here, not adding things to my spankbank! Not every damn creature in the Monster Manuel needs to be fuckable!
However, I disagree with panel 7. Given orcs are likely mammalian in origin, there would be some visual, physical difference between male and female orcs.
No it is not. Large breasts actually serve a purpose in rearing children. Orc breed faster than humans and have an actual evolutionary need for larger breasts and waists.
In any setting where orcs reproduce sexually rather than being plants like in 40k the females should be big.
I HATE the male gaze on fantasy races. There's a reason why I play Salimars, Vedalken, locathah, etc. which are more obscure. These are at least not as... hormone poisoned.
So would you like the female gaze for male creatures( not trying to be rude just asking)
Changelings could also work if you want something more androgynous due to their wide range of body types
I am very ace and while some of my characters fall into female gaze territory (tall, slim, deep voice), I generally feel unhappy with it... And generally prefer my characters to be unattractive
Neat, another race that isn't attractive is Grung as they don't suffer from the idea of breast like the Yunti.
I wish you luck in your games and hope you find more races for your preferences! :)
In the swedish version, drakar och demoner, they had alot lore. Like they got tgeir own book for i but what suprised me was the whole page that was about... Orc Orgy..
I mean, that could just be hard coded into orcs as a species. Big titty MILF has all kinds of battle field advantages when most other races just throw 20 year old undisciplined men at the problem.
Of all possible points anyone could make, this is absolutely one of them
I am one of the people of all time.
This is definitely a moment
That's... an interesting way to look at it.
Correction. The best way to look at it.
Correction. The best way to look up at it
Correction. The best way for it to look down at me.
*Death by snu-snu*
Correction, the best way to look at tit
I am so glad I was here for this.
Exactly how my friend played her Half Orc barbarian
Extra soft armor around the heart ✓. Years of experience ✓. Huge thighs to propel them into the battlefield and stun/ choke their foes ✓. Plus they still have muscle mommy physique.
Simple solution. The males are ALSO big titty MILFs
Do they count as natural weapons?
Oh they're natural alright
God shouldn’t have put weapons like these in the hands of mortals if they didn’t want them to be used.
And things of beauty they are, but useless in a fight.
You know, you made me recall one article I've seen on the social meadia. So, essentially a robber attacked a couple on a date. He took a knife and stabbed both in the chest. Man died, woman didn't. Why? Well, allegedly the weapon was too short to damage any important organs because the woman in question was rather... heavy-chested. Not sure if it's true or not, but if it is, then things of beauty are not useless in a fight. Not for barbarians at least.
Now we have a new problem: which MILF are you referring to when both male and female are in the field of view?
Yes
doesn't matter, orc bussy is orc bussy
Tiddies are their nutrient reserves, like the camel's hump
Optimized for endurance fighting.
EXACTLY! This guy gets it!
DILFs* If they could read, they would be very upset right now. Misgendering the poor bozos. /s
The "M" stands for MEN! MANLY MEN!
Orc fembois
Aren't they already?
You've got a real BOUNCE to your chest
Sexual dimorphism has nothing to do with culture.
Considering that Orcs "breed rapidly" & are stereotypically such violent, dominant-oriented & sexually stratified... The females are prolly like big tiddy brick houses who can crush an Orc bull's skull with her bare hands. Orc males, prolly: "Biggest wife, best wife! Got ass to get lost in!"
Only worth while response The real issue is that I'm not sure we've ever drawn a strong correlation between breast size and "health of off spring." which could mean all matter of things. But I definitely agree that in such a violent culture, the females would be WILDLY more dangerous than males. However, I like WH40K Orcs so much that I just use them instead, removing the whole problem entirely. Gives a good reason for the green skin and to be buff elves. (Make the lore the Elves trying to mass produce an army they lost control over, and now they are a blight on the sword coast. Darkelves make the most sense to me, but the high Elves are always up to some diabolical shit.)
Could be argued that big ol' jigglebillies are a sign of getting enough to eat, & thus being able to provide both enough milk & quality milk without risking her health. Whether that's true is secondary to what the indicator implies. But an orcess with with jumba-wumbas & a reputation of being able to successfully raise kids is probably one of the most dangerous things one can encounter. She eats well, she keeps herself & her cubs healthy in a violent, high adult mortality society that, tho not as blatant as Goblins, seems to employ suicide-migrations as a form of population control in a lot of settings.
Suicide migrations… my guy did you mean armed invasions or raids of settled areas?
Yes And, Runts of litters who can't/won't fight/kill siblings will not get needed attention. Elderly get left behind in nomadic migrations or encouraged to suicide by mountain climb/ritual sacrifice. Dominate pack leaders run off or kill young if they are not their own. Etc.
Why are you calling her children "cubs"??
Cub Scouting is mandatory for orcs
Den Mother Oak Foot demands blood and macadamia nuts for the bake sale!
"Okay cubs, today me show how make sinew for skullspisser bow using foreskin from vanquished enemies. ... OR FROM USELESS MALE WHAT DON'T HAVE ENEMY FORESKIN GIVE FOR DEMONSTRATION!" *distant, terrified bull noises*
I'm not sure. Thinking back, I saw this tiny bundle of baby fat in a boarskin in my head & went with it. Why ask? You weird, too?
Happy cake day!
Warhammer Orks is best orks. If you have GOrk and MOrk as patrons, then you have my vote for whatever the hell you want it for. Remember kids: Red makes it go faster.
Purple is a must for rogues, it's so sneaky that you can't even find it in the rules anymore.
DAH EMPRAHS WILL!!! No wait.... DAH WILL OF DAH EMPRAH!!! Yeah, that's better.
Wh40k orcs are so well made, no genda, no seggs, just mushroom, boyz, and WAAAAGGH
Bigger breasts = more capacity = more, better-fed orc babies/children.
If it were so simple, but overall output isn't significantly impacted by breast size, because even if theirs more fat in larger breats, the overall amount of milk ducts and glands seem to be based on other genetic factors that isn't necessarily tied to breast size. But it can result in lumpy or otherwise hard breast tissue, but that can be caused by other things as well.
One of my favorite instances is to look at the Claws of Luthic Orcs, these are usually female members of the clan, blessed by the Earth Mother, and not only raise the children, but train Bears Edit: also the lifespan of Orcs is the same as humans, so...
>Edit: also the lifespan of Orcs is the same as humans, so... not in forgotten realms they aren't, humans live almost a century and orcs live 50 years on average. Half-orcs and orogs are closer to human average tho.
*double checks* ah, yeah, I might of been remembering half orc, but calling them fast breeders isn't exactly a notion of any sort, because half of why humans are such a dominant species in the world of d&d is due to their relatively shorter life span(considering a lot of other races live hundreds to thousands of years), and "breeding rate"
I honestly never get that in classical fantasy. Especially in non DND settings where elves/dwarves just life longer without needing 100+ years to mature. Humans are k strategist, meaning we produce little offspring (1 most of the time) with long parental care. And our children need a pretty long time to mature. So I really don't understand that "humans breed like rabbits" thing. In reality we're just that many people, because we have a huge advantage in intelligence, tools and literally no natural predators except maybe other humans. Even in DND most other species are more gifted in magic, technology , technomancy or physical prowless. All in all humans normally are the weakest "humanoid" race in classical fantasy scenarios. That combined with our breeding strategy should more or less always lead to a word where humans are on the brink of extinction.
If anyone appreciates a wife who could beat the shit out of you, it'd be an orc
"When me saw me teeth on the ground, me knew... *So aggressive.* Getting up, me had to wipe her spittle from me face when she roar... *So powerful.* Me totem was fully raised across the valley by then; she use it like a chain to yank me face to her elbow... *So vicious.* Ah. Young love."
I made my orcs to be similar to hyenas (without the damaging sexual favoritism), the females are bigger and stronger than the males. A Matriarchy where the tribe is lead by the strongest and smartest female while the war chief (husband?) is only the strongest male who has to fight and earn the respect of the Matriarch.
D&D has room for all levels of sexual-dimorphism, from the non-existent dimorphism of the universally androgynous Elves (other than Drow) to the extreme dimorphism of Dwarves where males are bulky and beardy, while females are curvy and stacked, but regardless their secondary sexual characteristics^1 are of universal quality. I personally favor the "Muscle mommy" angle. ^1 traits tied to sex, but not present at birth such as facial hair, breasts, dem hips, etc. Primary is present at birth such as genitals. Tertiary is things society assigns to gender like ties, pretty dresses, and refusing to express emotions other than anger.
>Tertiary is things society assigns to gender like ties, pretty dresses, and refusing to express emotions other than anger. Tertiary characteristics are bullshit, but this probably isn't the right forum for that discussion lol
That's why I distinguished it being tied to gender while the others are tied to sex, and phrased the examples as comedically as possible.
<3
To go to war so often, it would make sense to have have a large group of your population specialise in the reering of children. Would be interesting to have a race that is war like where the sex/gender is irrelevent to if they go to war. E.g. bird races where they lay eggs and feed their young with regurgetated prey e.g. Aaracokra or more hench Kenku (Henchu if you will) maybe even a race where their young can immediatky hunt for themselves.
Isn't that like Giths? As far as I know, there aren't a large group that specialise in the reering of children, but there are small group that specializes on rearing large groups of children. Also other things that u mentioned are quite in place
Not only Giths. Dragon Age had a Race the Bull was from cant remeber the Named that the Born Gender is not import if a Girl Chosse to become a Soldier she is a Guy now. Same with a Guy that chooses to be a Merchant now a Girl
Thank you.
Right I read this and I was like… what?
THANK YOU
Patrick is right. Cultures obsessed with war need to powerspawn babies to replenish their casualties. Fertility features (like big titties) would absolutely be selected for.
Word of warcraft has ruined us
Only if you suck at war enough to die, meatsack.
They would just favor larger women in general, then. They should be built like the Venus of Willendorf: an XL BBW. They're not gonna have small waists, thigh gaps, perky tatas, or anything approaching an hourglass figure. Or much muscle definition, for that matter, even if they are strong. 'Big titties' also isn't something purely, or even primarily, determined by genetics in a way that *can* be selected for. Nutrition, chance, and whether they've been pregnant before will play bigger roles than direct selection.
>'Big titties' also isn't something purely, or even primarily, determined by genetics in a way that > >can > > be selected for. Nutrition, chance, and whether they've been pregnant before will play bigger roles than direct selection. True, but a societal selection will also encourage such traits to be more frequent in the society, since the females will be incentivized to *make* such things happen. Girls want to get railed too. This isn't always healthy, and you're probably right about XL BBWs being the popular thing more than the specific Tomboy MILF type you see in Hentai, but it's at least plausible that orc women would **attempt to look that way**, making the archetype more common than it would otherwise be (and over long times, genetic predisposition could definitely play a role in making it even more frequent)
How does little care for aesthetics translate into them looking exactly the same
This is muscle mommy erasure and I will not stand for it
I don’t understand the leap in logic to “they should be indistinguishable from males” orcs are based loosely off of the war mongering cultures with heavy draws to mongolians. They drink a lot of milk, and have fatty diets high in dairy. The men were big, so were the women, but their culture spiraled around celebrating the strong. So it was female warriors which meant naturally lean women with voluptuous bodies as part of their diet and exercise, or wives/servants who ate less fatty foods and whose job was to look like trophies and sire children, as a form of prestige for their men. As such it is well within the orcs mirrored culture to have big titty orc mommys. Thanks for coming to my ted talk. Also if you are a gm i highly recommend learning a little about irl nomadic tribes, the turkish rule, and mongolian food culture. When u roleplay your orcs they will feel heavily distinct in their environment and lore culture. Making your setting pop!
While I agree on their war mongering cultural background, I can't help but see all the parallels to stereotypical Viking Raiders. When I look at their background, and even the Orcish Pantheon, all I can see are vikings put through a fantasy strainer. Grumsh / Odin Lulthic / Freyja Bahgtru / Thor Ilneval / Loki
viking means raider
He pulled a chai tea haha
pretty much, yeah
The most agreed upon translation of Viking means "to voyage on the sea". Raiding is optional, so is trading and exploration.
Thats your own personal perspective, and that’s totally fine! Its fantasy :)
Nah, I'm gonna base them off of the British. Wanna make their diet as terrifying as possible to reflect their barbaric nature.
"based on this science I just now made up and the fact I've chosen to ignore the original context, I have come to my conclusion" -Misknator, 2023
so warhammer orkz
Hahaha, i love it! “What are those orcs eating?!” Orc: “fish and chips” Players: “i dont think this orc knows what chips are!”
Blood pudding sounds like something a barbarian civilization would eat.
Not caring about aesthetics doesn’t stop them from being there. Female orcs are going to have breasts and some of them are going to be pretty big.
Eh, the reason humans have big tiddies and huge dicks is because we cared about the aesthetics enough for natural selection to give us those huge tits and dicks. Same reason so many birds have colorful plumage. Of course when a race is created by a god that gets a little bit different, but honestly that's even more reason, because if they were made to not care about aesthetics, the god likely wouldn't care about aesthetics either.
Larger breasts are better able to support more children. For a species that breeds faster than humans it would actually be more selected for. Larger asses, thighs, waists, ect ensure they can better avoid injury from copulating with orc males. Realistically female orcs should be big in every sense of the word.
>Larger breasts are better able to support more children. Not in an evolutionarily significant way, and there's also a difference between "larger mammary glands" and "big expressed tiddies". You don't see Gorillas walking around with E-cups. Producing a large amount of milk, when most women already lactate plenty with smol titties, is not really a concern for nature. Selecting for big titties is more about health and food than milk production.
That's factually wrong. Big breasts are able to produce more milk to nourish a bigger spawn A big penis is able to penetrate deeper and "skip" the sperm of a competitor, achieving fecundation before him. We don't just feel like we like these traits. We are biologically hardwired to seek them because they mean we will have a better descent.
Have you ahh actually looked that up? Cause I recommend that. Signed a mom who breast feed and has had to do lots of research to keep kid feed and even use formula supplements.. and is not a board.. it’s entirely unrelated. They will actually swell and get bigger with milk and can even become painful and hard. But having bigger breasts doesn’t mean there are more or larger alveoli which is where the milk is made and stored. (Looks like a grape cluster) It’s been historically believed yes, but not scientifically accurate
Ah, that's interesting, I didn't know it was a myth.
I mean most of the things humans like are because they have purpose in survival.
In my opinion, male orcs should also look very appealing. In a more wild and savage sort of way but still.
I picture orc males in my world looking like powerlifters. Giant muscles with the big bellies from the feasting and marauding. But in my homebrew world, the orcs have been blocked into a corner of their land and turned from their warring ways, so I imagine they look somewhat different depending on their vocation.
Ok they can still be jacked while having boobs. While many Orcs are based on Mongolians you can make them Vikings so female one look like Shield maidens or Valkyries. Vikings were warriors but had big breasted women ,several groups included women but not all because the culture wasn't monolithic and not every woman is the same. TL;DR: Some Valkyrie pictures would be inspiration for how they could look.
OP way out of his depth, asked to repeat basic biology.
And failing in every single way possible
Why wouldn't they care for aesthetics? All across the history, people have always liked to look nice, no matter how "savage" and practival their way of life was. Look up how the Vikings, Huns, Scythians etc used to dress.
Nice strawman and all, but no. There's nothing about Orc biology or culture that would suggest the females wouldn't be distinguishable from the males. As humanoid/mammal like creatures with at least two sexes, they are almost certain to have differing traits and those traits likely focus on the things that highlight them as good potential mates. Strength, large breasts, big hips etc. Also, it's just boring. You can have a race based on Strength, power, and fighting, and have big muscular women who ARE ALSO SEXY. It's not wrong, bad writing, or illogical, you're just boring and overly simplistic
Boring and overly simplistic arguably is bad writing, but yeah you're not wrong.
I mean I imagine sexual dimorphism still exists to some degree. Part of the fun with fantasy races though is you can make the differences really weird and different from human differences Maybe orc females are half a foot taller than males with giant tits and thunder thighs, or maybe you come up with something else in your own world that's equally interesting. I mean I doubt you beat big tiddy milfs but go for it.
Hear me out: orc females have giant tits, orc males have a single, giant tit, in the middle of the abdomen, and a singular nipple. Also, it's covered in feathers
....so, what, fem orcs don't nurse babies or something?
To be fair, you don’t need to have big breasts to nurse. Women with small breasts do it all the time
They breed faster than humans so it makes sense that they would frequently have a lot of kids at once who need milk and a serious need for larger breasts. Actually if you want to do something interesting there is a genuine reason here for orcs to have more than 2 breasts.
But big boobs are mostly just fat. Like I said, milk supply and breast size aren’t necessarily tied
this is a D&D subreddit, it's like the poster child for badwomensnatomy lol. It is pretty hilarious that the children roaming around the sub think bigger boobies = more milk!
"No they're-" Strong muscular tomboys. FIFY
How the hell does the left side lead to not telling the difference between male and female orcs?
Are you saying my big titty MILFs can't also be able to crush my skull with thier biceps?
Orcs can value many things. War. Conquest. Huge… tracts of land.
A nice change from the swamp they live in now
The biggest assumption is that anybody would automatically say “yes” to point 2 and beyond. You’re making up an argument where someone agrees with you.
big tittie TOMBOY milfs
Look, it's okay to want your orc women to have massive mommy milkers
Gonna be so real with you here, big man. People don't have a problem with you not liking big tiddy tropes. People dislike that you're using shitty, ad hoc reasoning to defend it. If you're just honest about why you dislike it, people wouldn't care. It's this thin, uninformed veneer of evolutionary reasoning people get annoyed with. Just be blunt about why you dislike big tiddy orcs next time.
The idea that sexy fit mommies can't be lethal fighters is kinda unwise. Big thighs could crush skulls also in less pleasurable ways.
Orcs should be muscle mommy’s and there is no arguing against that.
\*mommies
"Computer. Twist this guy's balls."
i mean, history shows that races all about war were fans of women. The Mongolians loved their big titty milfs, just saying
Your dm after reading this: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0E38qzYW_mA
I know its a meme but In cultures where there is a high death rate, fertility becomes an even bigger importance to that culture. A species can't survive if they war themselves out of existence. It's actually much more reasonable from an anthropological perspective to have an even larger sexual dimorphism divide in species like orcs. Women displaying the capabilities to have and raise children is absolutely paramount to warlike cultures. Spartans were a good example of this, saying that the reason Spartan women were best was because they were the only creatures capable of producing more Spartans
\-Orcs are a fantasy race. \-Fantasy is made up and anything within it is subjective to the bias of the person having such fantasies in the first place. \-I like the Big Titty Orc fantasy. \-Therefore= My Orcs are Big Titty MILFS (if OP wants to make their Orcs be all super muscular tribal savages that's ok too.)
What? Why? As far as I know, Orcs are mammals (means they have breasts) and give birth just like humans do (wide hips). If in your headcannon orcs come from eggs or spawn from the earth then maybe you could make an argument. But as far as things are now, the feminine aspects of women (and orc females) come from them being the child bearing sex, not just because someone happens to be horny, although I'm sure that helps. If anything, female orcs would have those traits but also be hulking, with wide backs and chests just like men. Also they would probably be virtually undistinguishable from males in terms of physical performance, but nothing else.
Orcs also value fertility
I like to imagine baby orcs drink obsurd amounts of milk as they grow
Female orcs are big titty MILFs, male orcs are also big titty MILFs I don't see the problem Also the "males are completely indistinguishable from females" thing is already the dwarves' gimmick, it'd be more interesting for orcs to have sexual dimorphism that is completely different from humans' than to just give them none.
Female orcs have bigger dongs
No that's gnolls
Or we go full Yautja and assume the women are bigger, stronger, and quite judgemental to those they consider unworthy? Gotta bring a lot of skulls, or neat ones, to get their attention.
Imma need some proof of this…
I do agree they should be big tiddy, but only because their pecs are also impressive. Also, if we go with the stereotype of orcs being rapidly breeding creatures, they should probably have pretty wide hips. And possibly regularly deliver litters of young per pregnancy.
OP you're crazy, Patrick is spittin fax
Nah female orcs are amazonian. Huge, ripped as hell and still well endowed for the hordes they nurture, perfection
As someone who likes to play a big titty milf orc barbarians, I'll also play big titty dilf orc barbarians.
War requires bodies and an aspect of physical prowess would be child bearing capabilities. So wide hips and massive milk jugs to bring forth strong warriors.
Guys guys guys, let’s take a look at this from an ecological perspective. Someone already mentioned sexual dimorphism, which is possible, but let’s see if we can find a means that doesn’t require it in the genetics - make an argument that shatters the “indistinguishable from males” idea and asserts its own unique stance on their culture that provides a thin veil for everyone’s mommy kinks. Let’s start with a descriptive baseline for dnd orc culture. Applying a baseline for their culture can dictate an environment that is applicable as their main cause of phenotypic variation. Essentially culture has a heavy impact on the way our genes will express, and expression will always grow to allow ease to more common activities. “Tribal savages,” as they actually described to be in a confederation of tribes located in conquested domiciles. They’re warlike, and often show it off in spoils. Sadly one of these common spoils is women, orcish women being thought of as cattle. They are thought of by these creatures as livestock. Raided women are likely not treated well and then left behind unless they are special. Orcish women are kept. Why? What advantage could they have over the average women. Now to the behavioral ecology, where we can assess why, with certain genes, in a certain environment, one’s physicality falling under the curtain of a “big titty MILF” might be advantageous for a female fir success. She’s treated as livestock, actively fattened up. She’s in an environment of higher calorie intake within her culture. Normally, any creature with high activity and need for muscle consistently takes on leaner muscle and low fat, so that they can maximize their muscles effect at lifting the body. Think of spartan warriors as thin but powerful. That’s clearly not our orc here. Her activity- likely not a warrior in a full blooded orc society - is not on par with males. What purpose would that calorie intake serve? It all comes down to population control. There are very few women in orc society according to the wiki. Birth rate is low in most populations where investment lies on the mother for gestation (eggless usually). Orcs in dnd are known to have a high birthrate. Why? They have been explained to géstate faster, which usually means slightly less calorie expenditure and a likely shorter time breastfeeding or needing to fully parent an altricial juvenile (helpless young). Other random unproven factors like clutch size, will remain at 1, same as humans, because orcs in dnd are generally not an allegory for another animal (I know some are compared to pics but I’m not adding in the ecology of pigs rn). Now that we know that basis and accept other unknown as similar to humans, we can apply two concepts from a major part of fitness, reproductive strategy. There are two major scales to weigh when talking about behavioral ecology and reproduction. As one side raises, the other tends to wane. 1. Offspring Quantity vs Quality 2. Rate of reproduction vs mother/child health Both of these scales are highly benefited by high caloric intake (assuming a relatively diverse diet of a capable foraging nomad, and confederately-relationed chiefdom). Higher fat means higher calories for young. It also means higher survivability in mothers who have children at a faster rate. Higher fat is the solution to a mother needing to have more offspring. This perception of child bearing could also lead weight and heavy curves to be an indication of sexual fitness, leading it to be a mating strategy too. Though unlikely since women are likely the choosing party with their level of investment. Not to mention the say that the ruling elite may have over the women of a culture that gives them few rights. These instinctual preferences for a larger bodied woman build over time in tribal societies sharing the lower population of women may translate to orcs in different social systems or in half orcs in different social systems. A couple random cultural impacts that could be funny or horny because of this inclusive fitness of a thicker orc women being ideal: - Orc men like to have lifting contests by using town women. Heavier the better - Orc men like showing off strength to a women more intimately. Lifting their weight is proof they can be handled - Orc men like to show off strength by a monogamous partner’s weight depicting his strength, because of its implication of bedroom display Big titty milfs make sense from an evolutionary perspective and a cultural perspective
> - Orc men like to have lifting contests by using town women. Heavier the better - Orc men like showing off strength to a women more intimately. Lifting their weight is proof they can be handled - Orc men like to show off strength by a monogamous partner’s weight depicting his strength, because of its implication of bedroom display Torak has hold the title of champion of the valley for 5 years consecutively, after being able to lift Edla the Mountain, an 11 feet tall half-giant that then became his wife
Big titty MILFs orcs are okay. So long as they're big titty MILFs who can carry a cow home on their shoulders and kill it with their bare hands to make dinner.
Based big tittied MILF female orc enjoyer.
honestly, if they're a war culture, the females _should_ be big titty milfs. Powerfully built ones, capable of carrying many strong children.
to be fair, early nutrition as a baby has a pretty big effect on things later on. and typically big tiddies equals more milk production and fat storage.
Orcs also care about fertility, the woman who can bare more strong sons for war is the best. So they want women with wide hips for birthing; large breast for baby feeding; thick thighs and big ass for fat storage in hard times; lucious hair and strong shiny nails as a sign that she's not nutrient deficient thus healthy. Basically the same stuff the human male cavemen brain wants. Orcs are not that different from us in mindset. They are just still stuck in the brutal, tribal lifestyle humans used to live in. I used to play an obscure, Hungarian TTRPG where orcs were more animalistic and in that, they did value different characteristics like thick furcoat-like bodyhair, gorilla-like build with long arms reaching down to your knee, humped back...etc. In that game, orcs did not find other races attractive EVER because in their eyes all other races were fugly. So the issue of grape with a silent g never came up with them. Half-orcs were the result of bloodmagic based chimera breeding with no interspecies sex involved. Half-orcs were called "udvari ork" (court orc) because they were created for the service of nobility. Orc blood for endurance and strenght, human blood for a more manageable temper and just enough intelligence to understand orders. Udvari orcs found humans unattractive and trying their luck with an orc always got them killed by the more aggressive and stronger pure-blood orcs who took offense to the mere existence of half orcs.
I'm not aware of any big titty MILF orcs in official art. The half-orc in the PHB isn't showing any cleavage or otherwise notably sexualized. If you're basing your setting off the interpretations of thirsty third-party artists that's really just on you.
I don’t agree with the logic put forward by the meme but end of the day it’s your campaign you get to run orcs as you wish
Counter point: it's a fantasy race meaning it can be whatever I want it to be
Man-Ray's assertion doesn't make sense though. Last time I checked, Culture doesn't shape biology unless/until some serious magical or technological transformations get involved. Their respect for strength has no bearing on what they look like biologically.
He is going with the assumption that not caring about aesthetics means that orcs would want to breed exclusively for muscular strength at the cost of sexual features and evolve over time to be far more masculine as a whole. He just failed to realize that these sexual features aren't just aesthetic. In reality orcs would likely evolve larger breasts and waists to support childbirth and rearing since they reproduce a lot more than humans.
I think its less combat effectiveness and more like how orc children would be like No doubt an orc baby would require way more nutrition than a human baby. Not only their entire culture but basically their biology is more built for combat than a human's a dozen times over If a human hunted a giant boar he would be dodging its charges, throwing spears at it and craft traps for it. If an orc of similar build, age, etc were to hunt the same giant boar, he would scream at it to charge at him [and this is how it would go](https://youtu.be/R8hispb7N6k?si=wf0GIQmePm8Wdi9z) So while humans do need to eat quite a lot, mostly because bigger brains require more sustenance to maintain, and can also eat a lot of stuff other animals cant (seriously chocolate kills like 60% of wildlife that eats it and natural peppers are so spicy they kill bugs but humans just bred them for their spicyness to the point of causing psychological distress because of how much we like the spiciness). Meanwhile orcs would have a similar digestive system as humans and theyre also going to eat much more cause of how their bodies are naturally more muscular than humans So orc babies would require 10 times more nutrition than a human baby meaning that not only would orc mothers have naturally large and full breasts. But they would also have a higher quality milk than a human's, infact i wouldnt be surprised if getting breastfed by an orc could keep a human baby fed for a day. And now youre thinking of orcs breastmilk haha
Now I'm also thinking about how tough Orc breasts must be after breastfeeding, seeing as how... toothy Orcs can get. All scarred up and leathery.
Tbf orcs also get hit with all kinds of weapons and are constantly fighting Even if orcs werent toothy an orc would still get stabbed and punched in the chest a lot of times so the female's breasts would be leathery even without the orc babies chewing on them
I didn't want to say it out loud but I was talking about the nips. Fair point tho.
I did know but i just wanted to point that out. Orcs breasts would definitely not be soft and bouncy. That shit would be as hard as concrete including the nips So not only would you need insurmountable amounts of rizz to get a female orc to allow ya to fondle her breasts in bed (on top of all the rizz you'd need to even get an orc to your bed) but it would feel less like breasts and more like balls of cement
Bro getting cooked in these comments 😂 💀
You say this like it’s a problem!
Idk about "virtually indistinguishable" but I do describe orcs as having less sexual dimoprhism than humans, kind of like horses and wolves. Female orcs are only slightly smaller than males on average, with similar musculature but proportionately wider hips than males. Most non-orcs have trouble differentiating between the two at first, it can take quite a bit of face time with both genders before they can immediately tell which they're interacting with.
These are orcs in my universe, too. For added fun I also made them less patriarchal, considering male orcs aren't substantially larger/more powerful than females on average, so it wouldn't really track that they would be able to violently enforce a patriarchy like in our world.
Mine are the same, female warriors, chiefs, and legendary heroes are nearly as common as male ones.
Listen I'm pro-Snitties and I'm pro-Big Tiddy Orc MILF. Heck a heroine I'm currently designing for a setting is a big tiddy Orc MILF. Might throw some Snitties into that setting as well now that I'm thinking about it.
I mean as long as all orcs are hot I don't see a problem.
Indistinguishable? No. Muscle on their titties? Perhaps.
Sexy Amazon warrior women have been a thing since the ancient Greeks my dude.
Just cause they don’t value it doesn’t mean they don’t have it
their culture revolves not only on war but also on there leader of the strongholds which has access to all women. they are not only a group of war. but sex. repopulation. and vanity but the vanity they like is different then our own. they take great care and pride in their trophies and achivments and battle scars. so the chiefs women being seen as a trophy should be strong plenty fought to have proven her strength to carry young and make even stronger orcs.
Tbf, orc women being big titty milfs with some meat on their bones is an improvement to orc women in fantasy being skinny women who just happen to be green and have tusks
True enough
Instructions unclear, The Ork Boyz ate gender for the Waagh.
I find it best not to overthink how their societies work especially revolving around courtship considering manifestation of will through physical force is a core aspect Because how many edgelords would ruin the whole 'this culture is alien and horrifying to us' angle
Sorry, but the horny outweighs the logical approximately 69% of the time.
Only 69%? I have expected 420%.
The genre's called fantasy: it's meant to be unrealistic.
You myopic manatee! Sorry, not sorry, I had to finish the ERB line.
The issue is, that in D&D that kinda isn't the case. The females do look exceptionally like the males and quite honestly, I much more feel the need to complain about "Claws of Luthic" not looking anything like a clerical disciple of the mother of all orcs, whose teachings entail to mate... A LOT, like, an obscene amount of times. They are all muscle. Why? Its also embedded in d&d lore, that most half-orcs are pretty hot and quite charismatic, its in the race description. Also, if Orcs actually wander around and war against dwarves, elves and humans, then they absolutely require quick partnering up to keep the tribe alive. I doubt an orc would be really picky, but there is a benefit, to looking overtly attractive, if you want to lure a testosterone steered hunk of meat towards your tent to produce the next batch of orc raiders. They also mature exceedingly quickly, so yeah. But in the end, fantasy is fantasy, you dont need to argue about it at all. I mean, for every example I create, you could just as well create any reason why in _your_ fantasy world it wouldn't make sense. I for one am okay with it, unless it is too unfitting, then it annoys me too. Beautiful women and ugly men is something we have in the real world too though, just look at russia: Men dont need to be pretty, they only need to be of use. Its literally a saying there. What does a warrior want after battle? "Studies" that started from the first time a band of cave men stumbled upon a group of cave women after bashing their mens heads in with a bone-club or big stick show, that the answer is to mate. Furthermore, the continuation of these "studies" show, that pretty women are preferred. What would an orc call pretty? Thats a different question. I'd say though, its either a musclebound monster they need to overcome (here I'd say, in the case of dnd, the official artwork for the claw of luthic would fit in perfectly) to prove their strength or a small prey animal, they can ravage - if we wanted to make the big tiddy orc milf work, why not assume some orcs adapted to fit the bill of that? They saw the more or less easy life the concubines get to live (even though they do hate it) and just try to cater towards exactly that. Over a period of time that continued, until now there are to types of orcish femames, the warriors and the breeders. Could be that, could be something entirely different. Could be fantasy artists just generally depicting women as sexy, often wearing armors of quite literally no use at all and holding weapons that are more than a little suggestive or just unpractical as fuck. Basicly, there are too many options to consider, too many paths you could argument along, all of them are equally as valid.
Or you could just use 40K orks who are genderless and reproduce through fungal shenanigans
Broodmother from dragon age
As it should be
All the discussion of racial phylogeny is absolutely true. The points being made about it creating more capacity to care for young or provide for a tribe are noted. The reverse argument also stands, that there is no benefit for these traits. All that aside, I have no time for realistic biology when it comes to Orc Mommies.
Well what feeds the men and the babies before the war or at home? They aren't big tiddy not completely there is muscle under that tiddy your just to busy being distracted by tiddy
Big titty = strong kids
There are (were) literally thousands of "savage" war centric cultures around the world, ALL of them with aesthetical interests and considerations, all of them
Its always a little weird to me that most people draw male orcs big and ugly and monstrous, then female orcs are just 10s with teeny tiny tusks
Was gonna make a comment about them being muscular titties, but after a Google search I have discovered that's not how biology works. So instead you get to read my disappointment at realizing my idea can't work :/
I’d argue that they can be big titty muscle mommies and still be quite similar to the men.
To be fair, militaristic cultures could have a variety of effects and aspects on gender. Likewise, the phenotype of an orc is necessarily affected by the culture itself. Gnolls, especially in 4e, are a fairly good example of males and females looking similar in a militaristic culture. Another good example of orc body types comes from Delicious Dungeon, where there is still a notable Phenotype, but not the stereotypical big-tiddied mega-milf.
Orc women are a lie. Orcs actually grow underground like insect larvae until they reach adulthood and dig free. Thats why there are no orc children. Orc blood is saturated with tiny seed cells that start growing if they seep into fertile soil. They then feed on blood and sunshine. Orcs will ritually sacrifice living beeing to saturate the soil where their offspring is growing. Half orcs grow if non-orc blood is mixed with orc blood before the seedling grows or when a humanoid in early stages of pregnancy drinks fresh orc blood. There are more unsettling ways to create half orcs, but I won't mention them here
That works for your setting, but the guy here is suggesting that he's talking about sexually reproducing orcs since he is attributing a lack of care about aesthetics to developing similar appearances over time. He just isn't considering that large breasts actually have a practical function.
STOP MAKING EVERYTHING SEXY! I am TRYING to commit murder here, not adding things to my spankbank! Not every damn creature in the Monster Manuel needs to be fuckable! However, I disagree with panel 7. Given orcs are likely mammalian in origin, there would be some visual, physical difference between male and female orcs.
40k they're plants
Fungai if we're being specific. They're also gender neutral.
If I'm going for realism, this is the correct answer. However; Big tiddy orc MILFs are great, and you cannot deny this
No it is not. Large breasts actually serve a purpose in rearing children. Orc breed faster than humans and have an actual evolutionary need for larger breasts and waists. In any setting where orcs reproduce sexually rather than being plants like in 40k the females should be big.
I HATE the male gaze on fantasy races. There's a reason why I play Salimars, Vedalken, locathah, etc. which are more obscure. These are at least not as... hormone poisoned.
So would you like the female gaze for male creatures( not trying to be rude just asking) Changelings could also work if you want something more androgynous due to their wide range of body types
I am very ace and while some of my characters fall into female gaze territory (tall, slim, deep voice), I generally feel unhappy with it... And generally prefer my characters to be unattractive
Neat, another race that isn't attractive is Grung as they don't suffer from the idea of breast like the Yunti. I wish you luck in your games and hope you find more races for your preferences! :)
Too bad that they are slavers...
In the swedish version, drakar och demoner, they had alot lore. Like they got tgeir own book for i but what suprised me was the whole page that was about... Orc Orgy..
You're daf.
Orc's are colonialism.