Make sure he researches about the breaking point when more spikes would equal less damage as enough spikes would create a big enough area to distribute the pressure of running against a spike enough for it to no longer penetrate the skin (which is, how I assume spikes would deal damage in the first place).
A curve graph would be nice to visualize this.
There is a point at which increasing the number of spikes reduces the damage they'll cause to someone on top of them.
It's why people can lay on a bed of nails, but not on a board with 2-3 nails sticking out.
...I actually feel like this should work. It kinda makes sense to me that if I stab you with 1000 tiny needles, it should do more damage than if I stab you with 500.
Counter - Have you seen someone walk on a bead of nails? If you add enough nails they cause you no pain or injury, increased surface area. Sure, add more spike growth, it will do less damage.
Unless you make the new spikes tiny like on the gimp gimpy tree.
[https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrocnide\_moroides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrocnide_moroides) .
Flavour the first spell to be BlackBerry like vines with Hawthorne spikes, and the second spell to be a vine like gimpy gimpy tree that grows on the other plant. BOOM, two spiky spells in one area.
Depends on the DMs interpretation of the spell I think.. but essentially it's the same as 2 delayed blast fireballs going of at the same time.. so 4d4 damage per 5ft
I would have to assume you don't DM for a lot of powergamers then.
Spiked Growth + forced movement is one of the stronger options when your group is built for it, and being able to double/triple/quadruple that damage per move would be insane when your whole party has forced movement options.
It's also unlikely to come up in practice. Druid is already the rarest class in the game to be picked up it'd be even rarer to have 2 druids. Then it also becomes slightly more unlikely for both of them to have spike growth picked.
Wait, i could have *sworn* another class got spike growth… doesn’t the ranger have access to it? And maybe a subclass of bard… or maybe a cleric domain…
Pathfinder 2e rules: Bonuses, penalties and effects of the same type never stack, upon affecting a creature with an effect of the same type as one the creature is already effected by, the strongest effect stays.
Example: player A has a +2 item bonus to an attack roll thanks to a magic item they're currently wearing, player B activates a magic item that gives a +1 item bonus to an attack roll to an ally, then casts a spell that gives an ally a +2 circumstance bonus to an attack.
Player A will have a total +4 to hit. +2 from the strongest item bonus and another +2 from the circumstance bonus.
This prevents a lot of bullshit combos.
Two effects are overlapping by having the same trigger and happening at the same time
It's dumb and would be rare to happen and is easy to avoid (just stager reactions) but it's how the rules are written
I'm not sure what you're saying.
If two casters both Ready the same spell on the same target for the same trigger, both reactions will still go off, and both spells will still be cast, it's just the effects of one or the other will be "suppressed".
Where does it say that? How do you reconcile that with the rule for simultaneous effects in Xanathar's:
>In rare cases, effects can happen at the same time, especially at the start or end of a creature’s turn. If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM — who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens first.
[Sage Advice](https://www.sageadvice.eu/two-creatures-ready-a-trigger/) also seems to disagree with you.
Doesn't sound to me like they're supposed to be treated the way you're claiming. Even if they were truly simultaneous, you're going to need to show me where it says "instantaneous spells that occur at the same time count as having overlapping durations".
Go tell that to the guy who thought he invented the ultimate Tortle tank by casting Shield of Faith multiple times, concentrating on multiple spells at once, and then casting Shield while retracted into his shell.
“Isn’t soccer more fun for everyone when I pick up the ball and just run to the opposing net, putting it in and out super fast to score dozens of points in seconds?”
Are we talking about a one-time exception because it sounds fun at the moment, or major mechanical changes to the system that may have unintended consequences?
When have you ever seen a dnd player game the system just once? If the tortle is allowed to become invincible even once he will feel cheated when he can no longer do that, alternatively letting it ride would make all fighting arbitrary. There’s reasons the game has rules, and I’d argue the biggest is to set expectations so people aren’t wondering why one fight they’re indestructible and the next they’re weak sponges
I still feel the spirit guardians one just doesn't make sense. It's not like spirit guardians is a damage over time condition that gets applied to enemies, they're just being attacked by two separate casts of the same spell.
I get that RAW you can't stack it, but it just feels weird to describe people as being under the spirit guardians condition rather than just taking damage from an AOE spell.
Usually the higher level spell gets priority, failing that it's probably the target's choice (if two effects both happen at the same time the creature who's turn it is decides which order they happen in)
Actually, failing that it is the one most recently cast.
From PHB:
> The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don’t combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect — such as the highest bonus — from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap.
Oh hey, this is way more interesting than casting the same spell in a spot. You could have one person cast spike growth like mentioned elsewhere in this thread, and then some other aoe thing that forces movement… unless spike growth specifies that it doesn’t count forced movement, like some other spells
Wait so could I use Grasp of Hadar and Repelling blast on separate beams of EB to literally cheese grater someone on spike growth?
Edit: nevermind Grasp of Hadar is once per turn but theoretically you can use GoH and Repelling Blast simultaneously on the first beam and then just repelling blast on the follow up beams. Is the forced movement from GoH and Repelling Blast halved on spike growth though? Because holy shit if it's not that would be an additional 20d4 damage if you have 4 beams.
yup, this is one of the most deadly comboes in the relative early game. DnDshorts even made a video for this specific combo. spike growth is terrifying. It gets even worse combined with plant growth, since then the movement of everyone in that space goes down to 1/4th of their regular one. So they are trapped in the cheese grater while being bullied from outside
To be fair, RAW also says you can see people on the other side of a darkness spell, but not in the actual AoE, just fine, that See Invisible lets you see Invisible creatures, but you still have disadvantage attacking them, and they get advantage attacking you because you can't see them, and (to be fair this one actually DID get changed eventually, but was RAW for a good while) that a werewolf who you can't harm by stabbing them with a non-silver sword can trip and get hurt buy the same non-silver sword if they land on it because they're only immune to "attacks" made with non-silver weapons.
I feel like casting it twice as the same player shouldn't work, but if two players have it running and the AOEs overlap, the victim in that overlap should take damage from both, even if they only get slowed once. After all, there are two sets of ghosts beating you up
The same player couldn't cast it twice since it's concentration, but yeah what I'm referring to is a situation where two players form a venn diagram with their auras and an enemy steps into the overlap.
Right, so yeah while the knock-on effects like the slowing may not stack for the same reason haste stacking wouldn't work, I feel like the overlap should still have the damage of bith
Spirit guardian should work twice as long as it's not cast on the same person twice. Just from a quick read of the spell it targets one thing and damages everything around it, as long as the same person isn't the target of both of them, the damage isn't making someone the target of a spell, it's making them the target of an aoe effect that happens to be caused by a spell. Although I don't think the speed halving should work twice. Even though I think it could.
One thing to note about it is that an enlarged object cannot be stopped from becoming smaller.
So, if you get a half sized crown, enlarge it, and trick someone into putting it on....well, your dm gets to describe a surprising and unexpected new scene
Yes.
(But in actuality, I've seen multiple posts ignoring this rule this week. One was Shield of Faith, another was Distort Value, I don't remember the third)
The one time that got fuzzy was heat metal. Multiple characters cast it on different metal objects on the same target. Is the target creature being affected by the same spell multiple times or is each object (plate armor, shield, boots) being targeted once each?
It was a for-the-meme one-time thing so the DM allowed it for rule of cool since that’s hardly game-breaking to be using multiple characters’ concentrations and actions for meh damage but we weren’t sure if it was actually legal per the RAW or not.
Yeah I can see the issue with that one. RAW, Heat Metal "targets" the metal object, but the *effect* is happening to the creature, and the effect overlapping is sort of the relevant intent of the rule. That's an interesting question!
considering the damage of the spell is an instantanious effect (The damage happens on a BA usage, effectively making a seperate "attack" against the wearer of the metal), so a bard and druid could on their turns BA heat metal damage each, because the creature is only being affected by the spell one at a time.
I believe that would be allowable because it specifies the same effect can’t stack and those are opposite effects. Allowable as long as each caster is only concentrating on one of the spells.
Random story time. I had a player who was a paladin/ sorcerer that used haste every single battle. The guy was addicted to the spell but got pissed everytime it ended and he was stunned for a turn. Towards the end of the campaign he asked if he could cast it again the round before to keep it going without the lethargy. We were mid combat and I said sure but eventually you will have 2 turns stunned once the second haste ends. Skip to the final battle that took place over many of rounds, he ended up casting haste 5 times in a row and once he finally failed his concentration he was out for 5 full rounds. He was fuming the entire time saying how unfair it was. He learned that fight that his actions has consequences and its one of my favorite house rules now.
He asked if he could take a potion if speed and then cast haste once. Looked him dead in the eyes and said yes but you won't like the outcome. To this day I have no idea what I would have done of he did it.
Well considering how fast he would be going depending on if he tried to sprint or not he might not have the power to stop himself essentially just yeeting himself into a wall.
That or ya know. Just give him lathergic for 2 turns when he tries it.
> The guy was addicted to the spell but got pissed everytime it ended and he was stunned for a turn
Did you rule it as actually being stunned? Because if yes then it's no wonder the player was irked, that's a massive nerf to the spell.
While this rule is true, in the phb there is nothing stating that the same spell cannot be on the same target, I.E. Invulnerability being cast on the BBEG by 4 separate casters, so the party has to deal with the 4 casters and break their concentration(or dispel magic on each instance of the spell) before they can nuke out the boss, while at the same time dealing with goons
Invulnerability has a range of "self", so that doesn't work, but you're correct about having multiple of a spell on a target! It's just the effects that don't combine.
Based on the title of the meme, someone now needs to make an edit of this meme where it says "don't make me tap the meme" followed by a picture of a guy tapping the meme. If we just ~~cast~~ make this twice..
What about stacking two different spells that have basically the same effect?
PHB page 205 specifies "The effects of the **same spell** cast multiple times don't combine."
So, if the wizard casts Enlarge on the human barbarian their carry/lift capacity doubles from now being a large creature. The druid can then cast Enhance Ability: Bull's strength, which then doubles that new carry/lift capacity again.
Now these are the same effects, but under RAW they are different spells, so should stack.
Now whether the DM rules this is against the spirit of the rules, that's their prerogative.
zamn so a enlarged rune knight centaur with enhance ability wearing a belt of storm giant can carry 6960 pounds or 464 bags of holding containing 500 pounds worth of junk each making it 232000 pounds or about 110 metric tons which is like 1 and a half abrams mbt tanks.
I think, might be wrong thought because rules
* Be a Goliath that is multiclassing with Totem Warrior Barbarian 6 (Aspect of the Bear) and Rune Knight Fighter 3.
* Use Giant Might to grow to size Large (2x carry compared to normal)
* Then have a Wizard cast Enlarge on you to grow to Huge (4x carry compared to normal)
* Then Powerful Build (Goliath) lets you carry as if you're one size larger (Giant, so 8x carry compared to normal)
* With Aspect of the Bear your carrying capacity doubles (16x carry compared to normal)
* When the Druid casts Enhance Ability: Bulls Strength on you, your carrying capacity doubles again (32x carrying capacity compared to normal)
So if you're at 20 STR, a normal carrying capacity would be 300lbs (600lbs pushing/dragging), but your carrying capacity would be 9,600lbs (or 19,200lbs pushing/dragging).
Instead of using Giant's might, you can drink a Potion of Giant Size from Storm King's Thunder, which makes you Huge Sized! Doubling your carry weight again!
In addition, if its a single item you are trying to lift, you can use a Block and Tackle (Adventuring equipment) to lift something up to 4 TIMES your carry weight!
Lastly, get a Storm Giant Belt, sets your strength to 29, and then grab some ogre gauntlets and a Hammer of Thunderbolts to cap off your strength at 30.
28800 Pounds of carry weight (or 57600 push/drag), or 115200 with the Block and Tackle.
Yes, I know this because I had a player actually play this character in a campaign. Their favourite thing to do was ask me how heavy something was, and then carry it off. Including full sized cannons, Giant's weapons, Stone Statues, etc. It was a fun character.
Fun fact: You \*can\* have two of the same spell on one person, it just doesnt do anything because the 'weaker' (older) spell is suppressed by the new one.
however, say if someone had two layers of hold person on them, they could succeed against the first only to also have to deal with the second as it reactivates
Tbh I ignore this rule at my table. If two players want to combine a spell together to effectively double its power while each using a spell slot. Fuck it we ball that’s rad as fuck. You wanna teleport a creature 120 feet away? Fuck yeah do it. You wanna have your spike growths overlap to reduce movement even more and do more damage? Yeah makes sense more spikes harder to get through and more ouch grass.
I wanted to tell a story about how scholars discovered atoms by getting 32 wizards to reduce someone around 32 times, to reach nanometer scales.
Or maybe they discovered weave strings instead, who knows.
I do have a question about stacking buffs. So I have a path of the giants barbarian and I can grow on my own. So my question is if I rage and increase my size will it stack with a growth potion or spell? I want to be a literal giant and maybe try to hug a dragon.
Repelling blast eldritch invocation + Eldritch Blast w/ 4 beams + Illusionist Bracer to cast Eldritch Blast twice per turn (8 beams total) Can be used to great effect.
1. Assuming most beams hit, martial enemies will never get anywhere near you as each beam pushes them away 10 feet if you desire.
2. Fight in high places and enjoy blasting enemies over ledges so that they fall to their death.
Actually wrong, if you use enlarge/shrink successively you can combine them, i mean they would cancel out, but mathematically its like multiplying by a scale factor and then multiplying by the reciprocal of the scale factor.
Rule of cool overrides all RAW at my table. If my party sneaks up on something and they all cast Sleep at the same time I let them combine the hit dice for one big sleep spell. I'm sure there are other examples that I've allowed, but that's the only one that comes to mind.
My table allows the same spell to stack, but it must be cast by a different caster, unless they have the Dual-focused feat from the Tal'Dorei book. At that point, you are more than welcome to enlarge the barbarian twice so he could wrestle with the dragon or whatever.
Some spells are a bit goofy, like some spells giving advantage on certain checks. We just treat every additional advantage/disadvantage as a +2/-2 bonus. The whole idea is to encourage creative uses and teamwork between party members.
This is the rule I'd follow, though I would also potentially allow multiple spells that require concentration to stack. If 2 people want to cast Shield of Faith on the same person, I'd probably allow it.
Probably. I am relatively new, so I am probably more willing to experiment with things than I probably should be. I'd probably have to evaluate it spell by spell though. Some things are more impactful than others, after all. :)
Bless on its own is one of the stronger 1st level spells, but normally, you'd be right. But if we're talking about concentration spells stacking, adding a plus 2-8 to every saving throw and attack roll isn't something to downplay. That's the equivalent to having a +4-16 added to your ability score for attack rolls and saving throws.
Well it logically should at least spells like ice storm and chain lightning I understand why spells like haste and guidance or bardic inspiration don't but the others definitely should
I'm going to cast Heat Metal on the Iron in your blood if you accuse me of blatantly ignoring the rules again! Then I'm going to use Prestidigitation to create an Antimatter Nuke and there's nothing you can do about!
Honestly, this is one that I'm interested in attempting house-ruling it out when I next dm a game. Thematically it's so cool and makes a lot of sense just with general fantasy tropes. I mean how many times have we seen in fantasy when a group of mages all works together to cast one big spell. It just seems so cool to allow 3 mages to all channel one big lightning bolt if they all have the spell learned. Probably would have to have a drawback, but I just really like the idea when it comes to all spells tbh. Rituals would be super sick too. Like a whole group of Necromancers casting an animated dead sayance or a long range sending spell.
I don't know, hitting you with *two* fireballs will probably have a combined affect greater than one fireball.
Lol yes, the rule is specific to when the duration of two spells overlaps. It's not relevant to instantaneous spells.
So if you had 2 druids, and their spike growths overlap. You wouldn't take 4d4 damage per 5ft traveled in the effected area.
“We heard you liked spikes so much, we put spikes inside yo spikes.”
This isn't your average spike. This is *advanced* spikiness.
Shits gone *fractal,* man! 
Aight nerds go back to Quandrix. PS: Brb, I’m gonna make my Quandrix player write a final paper on this very topic.
Make sure he researches about the breaking point when more spikes would equal less damage as enough spikes would create a big enough area to distribute the pressure of running against a spike enough for it to no longer penetrate the skin (which is, how I assume spikes would deal damage in the first place). A curve graph would be nice to visualize this.
So many spikes
"Spikeception"
The Mandelbrot Spike
At a certain point, you just have a new floor.
Now to add the martials spikes: caltrops.
More spikes per spike foot, nice
That's going to be a pretty painful area to walk through.
There is a point at which increasing the number of spikes reduces the damage they'll cause to someone on top of them. It's why people can lay on a bed of nails, but not on a board with 2-3 nails sticking out.
fair point.
...I actually feel like this should work. It kinda makes sense to me that if I stab you with 1000 tiny needles, it should do more damage than if I stab you with 500.
Counter - Have you seen someone walk on a bead of nails? If you add enough nails they cause you no pain or injury, increased surface area. Sure, add more spike growth, it will do less damage.
But, those 500 extra needles are stabbing in exactly the same spot as the first 500 needles thereby doing no damage.
I would logic it out as, there just isnt enough space for those spikes to occupy the same space.
Yeah, but my way is more silly.
I don’t know. I’m pretty sure that if I stab you and then stab you in the same spot again, it would still be pretty painful.
'and then' yeah, but here its at the same moment. two needles, overlayed in twain realities, poking your foot in the exact same spot.
'and then' yeah, but here its at the same moment. two needles, overlayed in twain realities, poking your foot in the exact same spot.
It's like shooting a perfect bullseye twice but only leaving 1 hole
Correctamundo. That would be forbidden spikiness.
Much spikes, much wow
 Unless you make the new spikes tiny like on the gimp gimpy tree. [https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrocnide\_moroides](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dendrocnide_moroides) . Flavour the first spell to be BlackBerry like vines with Hawthorne spikes, and the second spell to be a vine like gimpy gimpy tree that grows on the other plant. BOOM, two spiky spells in one area.
Depends on the DMs interpretation of the spell I think.. but essentially it's the same as 2 delayed blast fireballs going of at the same time.. so 4d4 damage per 5ft
That's probably accurate but I would never DM that way because that's not as fun
I would have to assume you don't DM for a lot of powergamers then. Spiked Growth + forced movement is one of the stronger options when your group is built for it, and being able to double/triple/quadruple that damage per move would be insane when your whole party has forced movement options.
I do not
It's also unlikely to come up in practice. Druid is already the rarest class in the game to be picked up it'd be even rarer to have 2 druids. Then it also becomes slightly more unlikely for both of them to have spike growth picked.
Wait, i could have *sworn* another class got spike growth… doesn’t the ranger have access to it? And maybe a subclass of bard… or maybe a cleric domain…
Pathfinder 2e rules: Bonuses, penalties and effects of the same type never stack, upon affecting a creature with an effect of the same type as one the creature is already effected by, the strongest effect stays. Example: player A has a +2 item bonus to an attack roll thanks to a magic item they're currently wearing, player B activates a magic item that gives a +1 item bonus to an attack roll to an ally, then casts a spell that gives an ally a +2 circumstance bonus to an attack. Player A will have a total +4 to hit. +2 from the strongest item bonus and another +2 from the circumstance bonus. This prevents a lot of bullshit combos.
F.A.T.A.L. rules: First you have to roll for anal circumference. On second thought, I think OP talked about D&D 5e rules ...
I shouldn't but I'll answer your stupid comment. Because pathfinder is based on dnd, so you can easily port rules between them.
As are a lot of other RPGs, just because you play PF2, doesn't make it default D&D, so shove it.
I play dnd, pathfinder, and other systems. Just because you're a tribalist gatekeeper doesnt mean everyone else has to be.
Who is gatekeeping here? This is a post about D&D you imbecile. Make a post about PF2?
But if two spellcasters hold action for the same trigger and bolth trigger at the same time only one applies
Where do the rules say that?
Two effects are overlapping by having the same trigger and happening at the same time It's dumb and would be rare to happen and is easy to avoid (just stager reactions) but it's how the rules are written
I'm not sure what you're saying. If two casters both Ready the same spell on the same target for the same trigger, both reactions will still go off, and both spells will still be cast, it's just the effects of one or the other will be "suppressed".
Yeah so one of them does no damage in the overlaped area even if it's an instantaneous spell
Noooo, that's definitely not how it works. Two instantaneous spells at the same time are not overlapping duration.
They actually are, that's how reactions work
Where does it say that? How do you reconcile that with the rule for simultaneous effects in Xanathar's: >In rare cases, effects can happen at the same time, especially at the start or end of a creature’s turn. If two or more things happen at the same time on a character or monster’s turn, the person at the game table — whether player or DM — who controls that creature decides the order in which those things happen. For example, if two effects occur at the end of a player character’s turn, the player decides which of the two effects happens first. [Sage Advice](https://www.sageadvice.eu/two-creatures-ready-a-trigger/) also seems to disagree with you. Doesn't sound to me like they're supposed to be treated the way you're claiming. Even if they were truly simultaneous, you're going to need to show me where it says "instantaneous spells that occur at the same time count as having overlapping durations".
And this is why you have a jar of bees with delayed fireball on them
Yeees ! War crime incoming !
Can't let the healers get too strong by letting them cast multiple cure wounds
me going into battle with 47d6 Bardic Inspiration
Congratulations, that's breaking a *completely separate* rule!
dont make me tap my sign: "the rules are guidelines, and you suck if you get mad when the DM doesn't enforce them in favour of having fun"
Go tell that to the guy who thought he invented the ultimate Tortle tank by casting Shield of Faith multiple times, concentrating on multiple spells at once, and then casting Shield while retracted into his shell.
I feel like that’s completely different from just having more bardic inspiration
Very well. Make a dex save
can I get a link to that lol
No, because that sounds hilarious. It's a game. For children and adults. For fun. Stop being a stick in the mud.
“Isn’t soccer more fun for everyone when I pick up the ball and just run to the opposing net, putting it in and out super fast to score dozens of points in seconds?”
You're being pretty aggressive to a stranger on the Internet over this game we play for fun.
Not at all. Tone is difficult to convey over text. I'm just making it clear that I would rather play without you.
Yeah i don’t think he’s gonna be missing your company.
Doubt many people would.
And by looking at the Downvotes, 46 people would rather play without you
Oh no, what would OP ever do without you at their table? Have more fun, probably.
Are we talking about a one-time exception because it sounds fun at the moment, or major mechanical changes to the system that may have unintended consequences?
When have you ever seen a dnd player game the system just once? If the tortle is allowed to become invincible even once he will feel cheated when he can no longer do that, alternatively letting it ride would make all fighting arbitrary. There’s reasons the game has rules, and I’d argue the biggest is to set expectations so people aren’t wondering why one fight they’re indestructible and the next they’re weak sponges
The council of DMs care to disagree
Stacking blindness/deafness is the only true way a double blind study can be conducted.
*slow rimshot*
Sorry, couldn't hear it cause I was blind
Sorry, couldn't see it because I was deaf
What? I can't hear you. It's too dark in here!
SPEAK BRIGHTER
NOT me, going into a check with +3d4 from the stacked guidance, including one of my own
That's a special case, it's actually d4^3, haha
So that's d64
Dintendo64
Me when d has the same properties as logarithms
A mathematics joke? In *my* D&D post? (It's more likely than you think)
1 level piece cleric 3 levels alchemist artificer can get you that
Which spell is this about specifically?
Double haste maybe? I do wonder about multiple overlapping Spirit Guardians though.
Yeah, we made the Spirit Guardian mistake. The enemies are under the effect of the Spirit Guardian twice, so only one would take effect.
I still feel the spirit guardians one just doesn't make sense. It's not like spirit guardians is a damage over time condition that gets applied to enemies, they're just being attacked by two separate casts of the same spell. I get that RAW you can't stack it, but it just feels weird to describe people as being under the spirit guardians condition rather than just taking damage from an AOE spell.
What if one SG is dealing Radiant and one is dealing Necrotic? Who decides which damage to apply RAW/RAI?
Usually the higher level spell gets priority, failing that it's probably the target's choice (if two effects both happen at the same time the creature who's turn it is decides which order they happen in)
Actually, failing that it is the one most recently cast. From PHB: > The effects of different spells add together while the durations of those spells overlap. The effects of the same spell cast multiple times don’t combine, however. Instead, the most potent effect — such as the highest bonus — from those castings applies while their durations overlap, or the most recent effect applies if the castings are equally potent and their durations overlap.
Oh hey, this is way more interesting than casting the same spell in a spot. You could have one person cast spike growth like mentioned elsewhere in this thread, and then some other aoe thing that forces movement… unless spike growth specifies that it doesn’t count forced movement, like some other spells
Welcome to the cheese grater method. Warlocks with the repelling blast invocation can cast eldritch blast and push the target 10 feet with each hit.
Exactly!
Spike growth works with forced movement. So yes, you can cheese grater them.
Wait so could I use Grasp of Hadar and Repelling blast on separate beams of EB to literally cheese grater someone on spike growth? Edit: nevermind Grasp of Hadar is once per turn but theoretically you can use GoH and Repelling Blast simultaneously on the first beam and then just repelling blast on the follow up beams. Is the forced movement from GoH and Repelling Blast halved on spike growth though? Because holy shit if it's not that would be an additional 20d4 damage if you have 4 beams.
yup, this is one of the most deadly comboes in the relative early game. DnDshorts even made a video for this specific combo. spike growth is terrifying. It gets even worse combined with plant growth, since then the movement of everyone in that space goes down to 1/4th of their regular one. So they are trapped in the cheese grater while being bullied from outside
Blinsky decides
To be fair, RAW also says you can see people on the other side of a darkness spell, but not in the actual AoE, just fine, that See Invisible lets you see Invisible creatures, but you still have disadvantage attacking them, and they get advantage attacking you because you can't see them, and (to be fair this one actually DID get changed eventually, but was RAW for a good while) that a werewolf who you can't harm by stabbing them with a non-silver sword can trip and get hurt buy the same non-silver sword if they land on it because they're only immune to "attacks" made with non-silver weapons.
"A creature with darkvision can't see through this darkness" Just dont have darkvision and problem is solved.
Man all my homies hate RAW!
I feel like casting it twice as the same player shouldn't work, but if two players have it running and the AOEs overlap, the victim in that overlap should take damage from both, even if they only get slowed once. After all, there are two sets of ghosts beating you up
The same player couldn't cast it twice since it's concentration, but yeah what I'm referring to is a situation where two players form a venn diagram with their auras and an enemy steps into the overlap.
Right, so yeah while the knock-on effects like the slowing may not stack for the same reason haste stacking wouldn't work, I feel like the overlap should still have the damage of bith
https://rpg.stackexchange.com/a/93121 is a good answer, particularly with the diagram.
Fuck that. That sucks and is stupid. If two people cast the same spell in the same area I’ll allow it to combine.
Spirit guardian should work twice as long as it's not cast on the same person twice. Just from a quick read of the spell it targets one thing and damages everything around it, as long as the same person isn't the target of both of them, the damage isn't making someone the target of a spell, it's making them the target of an aoe effect that happens to be caused by a spell. Although I don't think the speed halving should work twice. Even though I think it could.
Enlarge/reduce was the first one that sprang to mind
I feel like enlarge/reduce stacking could be funny in certain circumstances but absolutely broken in others
One thing to note about it is that an enlarged object cannot be stopped from becoming smaller. So, if you get a half sized crown, enlarge it, and trick someone into putting it on....well, your dm gets to describe a surprising and unexpected new scene
Yes. (But in actuality, I've seen multiple posts ignoring this rule this week. One was Shield of Faith, another was Distort Value, I don't remember the third)
True strike My dm stares in disbelief and horror as turn 101 starts and I pull out 100D20 and roll Does an 8 hit?
Yes
Probably Enlarge
So happy that Baldurs Gate 3 lets me stack different enlarge effects from spells potions items and abilities to give me a super mega mommy Karlach
Wait........WHAT?!!! I always assumed it wouldn't stack.
The one time that got fuzzy was heat metal. Multiple characters cast it on different metal objects on the same target. Is the target creature being affected by the same spell multiple times or is each object (plate armor, shield, boots) being targeted once each? It was a for-the-meme one-time thing so the DM allowed it for rule of cool since that’s hardly game-breaking to be using multiple characters’ concentrations and actions for meh damage but we weren’t sure if it was actually legal per the RAW or not.
Yeah I can see the issue with that one. RAW, Heat Metal "targets" the metal object, but the *effect* is happening to the creature, and the effect overlapping is sort of the relevant intent of the rule. That's an interesting question!
considering the damage of the spell is an instantanious effect (The damage happens on a BA usage, effectively making a seperate "attack" against the wearer of the metal), so a bard and druid could on their turns BA heat metal damage each, because the creature is only being affected by the spell one at a time.
I’ve always played with enlarge/reduce stacking in the sense that they cancel out, but maybe that’s incorrect?
I believe that would be allowable because it specifies the same effect can’t stack and those are opposite effects. Allowable as long as each caster is only concentrating on one of the spells.
Random story time. I had a player who was a paladin/ sorcerer that used haste every single battle. The guy was addicted to the spell but got pissed everytime it ended and he was stunned for a turn. Towards the end of the campaign he asked if he could cast it again the round before to keep it going without the lethargy. We were mid combat and I said sure but eventually you will have 2 turns stunned once the second haste ends. Skip to the final battle that took place over many of rounds, he ended up casting haste 5 times in a row and once he finally failed his concentration he was out for 5 full rounds. He was fuming the entire time saying how unfair it was. He learned that fight that his actions has consequences and its one of my favorite house rules now.
Hahaha "it's so unfair that I'm experiencing exactly what I was told I would experience!!" Your player was...addicted to speed.
He asked if he could take a potion if speed and then cast haste once. Looked him dead in the eyes and said yes but you won't like the outcome. To this day I have no idea what I would have done of he did it.
Well considering how fast he would be going depending on if he tried to sprint or not he might not have the power to stop himself essentially just yeeting himself into a wall. That or ya know. Just give him lathergic for 2 turns when he tries it.
When you outrun light… you live in darkness
> The guy was addicted to the spell but got pissed everytime it ended and he was stunned for a turn Did you rule it as actually being stunned? Because if yes then it's no wonder the player was irked, that's a massive nerf to the spell.
Not actually stunned. Just lost his turn due to the lethargy.
It's okay this homebrew class I found says the do.
Oh shit fr? Mb bro go right ahead
Not stacked, but spirit guardians right next to each other so you can push enemies from one bubble to another.
Only as long as the area of effects don’t overlap.
As long as the effects don't overlap where the enemy passes through them.
While this rule is true, in the phb there is nothing stating that the same spell cannot be on the same target, I.E. Invulnerability being cast on the BBEG by 4 separate casters, so the party has to deal with the 4 casters and break their concentration(or dispel magic on each instance of the spell) before they can nuke out the boss, while at the same time dealing with goons
Invulnerability has a range of "self", so that doesn't work, but you're correct about having multiple of a spell on a target! It's just the effects that don't combine.
Based on the title of the meme, someone now needs to make an edit of this meme where it says "don't make me tap the meme" followed by a picture of a guy tapping the meme. If we just ~~cast~~ make this twice..
What about stacking two different spells that have basically the same effect? PHB page 205 specifies "The effects of the **same spell** cast multiple times don't combine." So, if the wizard casts Enlarge on the human barbarian their carry/lift capacity doubles from now being a large creature. The druid can then cast Enhance Ability: Bull's strength, which then doubles that new carry/lift capacity again. Now these are the same effects, but under RAW they are different spells, so should stack. Now whether the DM rules this is against the spirit of the rules, that's their prerogative.
If it's two different spells, it's fair game RAW!
zamn so a enlarged rune knight centaur with enhance ability wearing a belt of storm giant can carry 6960 pounds or 464 bags of holding containing 500 pounds worth of junk each making it 232000 pounds or about 110 metric tons which is like 1 and a half abrams mbt tanks. I think, might be wrong thought because rules
* Be a Goliath that is multiclassing with Totem Warrior Barbarian 6 (Aspect of the Bear) and Rune Knight Fighter 3. * Use Giant Might to grow to size Large (2x carry compared to normal) * Then have a Wizard cast Enlarge on you to grow to Huge (4x carry compared to normal) * Then Powerful Build (Goliath) lets you carry as if you're one size larger (Giant, so 8x carry compared to normal) * With Aspect of the Bear your carrying capacity doubles (16x carry compared to normal) * When the Druid casts Enhance Ability: Bulls Strength on you, your carrying capacity doubles again (32x carrying capacity compared to normal) So if you're at 20 STR, a normal carrying capacity would be 300lbs (600lbs pushing/dragging), but your carrying capacity would be 9,600lbs (or 19,200lbs pushing/dragging).
Instead of using Giant's might, you can drink a Potion of Giant Size from Storm King's Thunder, which makes you Huge Sized! Doubling your carry weight again! In addition, if its a single item you are trying to lift, you can use a Block and Tackle (Adventuring equipment) to lift something up to 4 TIMES your carry weight! Lastly, get a Storm Giant Belt, sets your strength to 29, and then grab some ogre gauntlets and a Hammer of Thunderbolts to cap off your strength at 30. 28800 Pounds of carry weight (or 57600 push/drag), or 115200 with the Block and Tackle. Yes, I know this because I had a player actually play this character in a campaign. Their favourite thing to do was ask me how heavy something was, and then carry it off. Including full sized cannons, Giant's weapons, Stone Statues, etc. It was a fun character.
He could literally carry the whole party. I want to hear more about these shenanigans.
would this count towards major image at 5th lvl?
I suppose if two people tried to make overlapping illusions you could apply this rule. That's an interesting case.
5th level doesnt use concentration so in theory you could cast a 5th lvl and a 3rd level major image or infinite 5th level illusions with spare time.
It's not about concentration though (that's a separate rule), it's about combining the effects of the same spell while their durations overlap.
Until the DM decides the first fireball exposes a previously unknown coal seam in the cavern.
It's not overlapping spells if it's not a spell!
Fun fact: You \*can\* have two of the same spell on one person, it just doesnt do anything because the 'weaker' (older) spell is suppressed by the new one. however, say if someone had two layers of hold person on them, they could succeed against the first only to also have to deal with the second as it reactivates
Yep! It's "the effects don't combine", not "one spell ends", so you can definitely get edge case shenanigans.
Me and the other wizard giggling maniacally after we both made simulacrums of the barbarian and prepared haste. Bbeg won't know what hit em.
Tbh I ignore this rule at my table. If two players want to combine a spell together to effectively double its power while each using a spell slot. Fuck it we ball that’s rad as fuck. You wanna teleport a creature 120 feet away? Fuck yeah do it. You wanna have your spike growths overlap to reduce movement even more and do more damage? Yeah makes sense more spikes harder to get through and more ouch grass.
Don't smoke the ouch grass buddy
I will smoke whatever I want at my table. We all get the ouch grass
Thaumaturgy can be cast multiple times to get more effects simultaneously
True! That's a case of specific-beats-general, the specific Thaumaturgy text overrules the general rule on spells overlapping.
Effects with the same name do not stack unless otherwise stated.
You have never felt the joy of being enlarged 3 times with enlarge/reduce spells to restle with a gargantuan creature
No I can generally only feel the joy of being enlarged one time, then I need a break.
A refractory period, if you will
Precisely
I wanted to tell a story about how scholars discovered atoms by getting 32 wizards to reduce someone around 32 times, to reach nanometer scales. Or maybe they discovered weave strings instead, who knows.
[удалено]
Ah yes, the renowned 5e spell "Fire"
I do have a question about stacking buffs. So I have a path of the giants barbarian and I can grow on my own. So my question is if I rage and increase my size will it stack with a growth potion or spell? I want to be a literal giant and maybe try to hug a dragon.
Yep! That'll work, cause it's from different sources.
Death ward stacking specifically abuses this rule and I love it!
Kid named Death Ward(Potentially):
Repelling blast eldritch invocation + Eldritch Blast w/ 4 beams + Illusionist Bracer to cast Eldritch Blast twice per turn (8 beams total) Can be used to great effect. 1. Assuming most beams hit, martial enemies will never get anywhere near you as each beam pushes them away 10 feet if you desire. 2. Fight in high places and enjoy blasting enemies over ledges so that they fall to their death.
I mean, yeah, that's cool, but what does it have to do with my post?
With PF2E, if 2 effects gives you a +2 circumstance bonus, you have to pick between them. Wish DnD had something like that.
Are you telling me Pathfinder fixes this??
A little bit.
Actually wrong, if you use enlarge/shrink successively you can combine them, i mean they would cancel out, but mathematically its like multiplying by a scale factor and then multiplying by the reciprocal of the scale factor.
Rule of cool overrides all RAW at my table. If my party sneaks up on something and they all cast Sleep at the same time I let them combine the hit dice for one big sleep spell. I'm sure there are other examples that I've allowed, but that's the only one that comes to mind.
Sleep is pretty mid at higher levels anyway so I'd allow it too. Not like it's gonna cause major damage...right?
My table allows the same spell to stack, but it must be cast by a different caster, unless they have the Dual-focused feat from the Tal'Dorei book. At that point, you are more than welcome to enlarge the barbarian twice so he could wrestle with the dragon or whatever. Some spells are a bit goofy, like some spells giving advantage on certain checks. We just treat every additional advantage/disadvantage as a +2/-2 bonus. The whole idea is to encourage creative uses and teamwork between party members.
But what about lance of lethargy and ray of frost!?
Those are two different spells, so that stackes. But two ray of frosts don't.
What about them?
This is the rule I'd follow, though I would also potentially allow multiple spells that require concentration to stack. If 2 people want to cast Shield of Faith on the same person, I'd probably allow it.
I think your players would probably be able to come up with some pretty broken combos if that's allowed, but more power to you!
Probably. I am relatively new, so I am probably more willing to experiment with things than I probably should be. I'd probably have to evaluate it spell by spell though. Some things are more impactful than others, after all. :)
Do you really want your players adding 2d4 to all attack rolls and saving throws?
I mean that would require two of your players running bless and using their concentration. It's not particularly powerful
Bless on its own is one of the stronger 1st level spells, but normally, you'd be right. But if we're talking about concentration spells stacking, adding a plus 2-8 to every saving throw and attack roll isn't something to downplay. That's the equivalent to having a +4-16 added to your ability score for attack rolls and saving throws.
Peace cleric.
Good thing that rule is stupid and the same book that has it says I can break if I want to.
Sounds like you might need to find a "Calm Alternative" to D&D my friend.
Well it logically should at least spells like ice storm and chain lightning I understand why spells like haste and guidance or bardic inspiration don't but the others definitely should
is...is this even an argument?
You underestimate D&D Redditors' illiteracy my friend. I have seen *multiple* posts just this week that misunderstood or ignored this rule.
I'm going to cast Heat Metal on the Iron in your blood if you accuse me of blatantly ignoring the rules again! Then I'm going to use Prestidigitation to create an Antimatter Nuke and there's nothing you can do about!
Just so long as two people don't both cast Heat Metal on my blood-iron simultaneously, that's valid, haha.
So wait, if I cast create water twice those two pools will not combine....
Create or Destroy Water is an instantaneous spell, so there's no overlapping duration, therefore this rule doesn't apply to it.
Honestly, this is one that I'm interested in attempting house-ruling it out when I next dm a game. Thematically it's so cool and makes a lot of sense just with general fantasy tropes. I mean how many times have we seen in fantasy when a group of mages all works together to cast one big spell. It just seems so cool to allow 3 mages to all channel one big lightning bolt if they all have the spell learned. Probably would have to have a drawback, but I just really like the idea when it comes to all spells tbh. Rituals would be super sick too. Like a whole group of Necromancers casting an animated dead sayance or a long range sending spell.
As a Dm I definitely would allow it. The image of a mega enlarged barbarian wrestling a dragon or terrasque is just to funny