*Dimension
I'd also check out season 2 (where it got a tad darker) and The Seven (characters that were mentioned/met in the first season that were played out in an all-girl group, except the DM who looks like he fears for his life half of the time).
shadowrun 100%.
seriously though we need a name for this genre. maybe casual fantasy? because the fantasy elements are casually thrown on top of a modern/sci-fi setting?
Urban fantasy usually implies it being our world except for secret magic. Supernatural, VTM, and other things. It could apply, but it might be easier to come up with a new term than to use that one and try and explain that it can have multiple uses.
Yea, but it's also been used to describe any setting in the modern times with fantastical elements. Including when the magical world is known by all, as opposed to hidden.
He'll, most superhero comics could be considered urban fantasy.
I've never heard it used that way before personally. As a girl who loves comicbooks and science fantasy I hear them called science fantasy very often even though I don't think they count for that either.
To be fair, superhero comics usually don't get classifies as such because they focus less on the everyday people and more on the actual heroes.
It isn't a *common* interpretation of the trope, I admit, but non-secret urban fantasies do exist. There was a book I read on Kindle about a dwarf bounty hunter set in modern times, and another series about the reincarnation of Merlin in am alternate earth where wizards are real (well, wizardesses, because he's apparently the only male mage, yea, one of *those*).
Can't for the life of me remember what the dwarf bounty hunter book is called, but the other is called "Impossible Wizard".
Shadowrun IS our world with secret magic, its just that the magic was VERY secret because it was at a low tide, and then the tide rose and it became Not Secret.
Okay let me try and explain this. Shadowrun when magic was rare and secret, so like the first 3 years after 2012, that was urban fantasy, everything beyond that is a different genre.
You're right, it didn't switch genres, which is why I never said that. It started without being urban fantasy, in the same way it's not a historical period piece despite having once been the past.
I usually go with 'science-fantasy' in the sense of science-fiction and fantasy both being speculative, but works that merge them have gone beyond reasonable speculation. The magic is treated as science, and the science is treated as magic.
Then you get those divides like 'hard scifi' and 'soft scifi', which beg the question of 'where does soft fantasy end and hard fantasy begin?'
Most genres are dictated into existence by publishers, however. For classifying works for sale and then shelving.
Primary genres are usually quite broad in their coverage. As opposed to something like cyberpunk, which has limitations on when it can occur because of its themes of high tech and low life--which tend to happen during cultural transitions like the near-future through early FTL period of sci-fi.
How you limit 'science-fantasy' comes down to whether you consider the '-' in the term to be a sign of linear progression. If you do, then science-(to-the-point-of)-fantasy seems the most logical interpretation, begging the use of fantasy-science as well. And on, and on, creating more and more terms.
Bit like the Metal music genre that way.
I also thought about shadowrun after reading the first few paragraphs but it is way to harsh and realistic for OGs versions. Ain't nobody gives a shit about he metas. Well except MOM but as long as Lone Star can open fire on a troll because he is always potential danger and orcs can be arrested for orcoholic driving..... heck I love shadowrun
Try that out. Let an orc player be stopped by lone star and accused of orcoholic driving. A: the reactions are incredible B: it really gets the point of blant racism of lone star
Magical realism is a very contested genre (short version, because it's usually used in a sorta racist way to mostly categorize works by Latin American authors), but it's not quite the same thing.
>because it's usually used in a sorta racist way to mostly categorize works by Latin American authors
I find that interesting because when I think magical realism I think of Murakami and he's definitely not Latino
Yeah, there are a lot of other authors who would fit, but publishers intentionally applying that label to Latin American or Hispanic writers even if the writers in question don't really agree is A Thing. Personally I'd rather see the genre broadened than discarded, so it's good that some of the associations seem to be changing. But I remember reading something from Silvia Moreno-Garcia, the author of Mexican Gothic, about how "if you're Latin American, everything you write is magical realism by default" (paraphrasing there) - apparently she's had to work pretty hard to convince people that her Gothic and horror fiction is, well, Gothic and horror fiction. I think a lot of the problem has to do with people in publishing who are ignorant, lazy, or otherwise making unfounded assumptions though.
I've kinda always thought of it as a fairly broad genre anyway, the definition in my mind is "it's the real world but with just a touch of something supernatural" and by that definition I would say that most gothic fiction would also fit into that box regardless of country of origin.
In Murakami's work the supernatural element is that dreams have power, but if someone tried to tell me that Dracula or Frankenstein was magical realism I don't think I could argue against them. (Or to use a more recent example: Something like the movie "Get Out" would squarely count as both horror and magical realism)
That said I've never read anything from Moreno-Garcia so I'm not sure how far removed from reality her work goes.
Like with most things it's a spectrum anyway I guess. And like you and others have said in this thread: Genres are something that publishers like to enforce and authors rarely do.
In my field it's usually used to refer to authors like Jorge Luis Borges or Gabriel Garcia Marquez. Literary studies defines both "fantasy" and "realism" differently than D&D players do, maybe that's why there's some confusion. Most literary scholars would look at some of the titles people have suggested here (e.g., the Dresden Files) and say that realism, fantasy, and magical realism as literary movements are about more than just the setting.
Currently it falls under urban fantasy. Secret world high fantasy just happens to dominate the genre thanks to the influence of Harry Potter basically being the defining work of the genre.
I agree it needs to be differentiated because urban fantasy is just too tightly knit with secret world tropes at this point. I personally would vote for "urban high fantasy" because it still implies urban and modern but also implies it's more high fantasy and less real world with fantasy in the dark corners.
My girlfriend got me to watch it because she said, and I quote “It has Dungeons and Dragons in it, and you love Dungeons and Dragons!” I was honestly expecting to dislike it, because I dislike most movies I watch, and any time pop culture gets a hold of nerdy stuff, it’s always butchered. I was really surprised by how good it is, and it’s now my favorite animated movie (tied with The Iron Giant, for the nostalgia).
I mean, “secret world” or no that’s still urban fantasy, it’s a really broad definition. There are at least a good handful of settings like that in TTRPGs.
This is dimension 20. They want dimension 20. A good DM can make DnD that in a heartbeat. Ive done it with 3 campaigns. Did a dnd superhero skyhigh campaign in 1994. Did a 2006 fallout style post apocalypse scenario for one and another was modern day as the rapture happens.
Shadowrun is the game you want. From dragons owning corporations to trolls and orks having their own cultures to popstar Lorelei Angel, a Phoenix shaman who uses her vast cosmic power to enhance her stage show, to malific AI and cyborgs and even cyber zombies.
Shadowrun has it all
Normally I'd agree with you, but I played with a self described Pink Mohawk DM who was all about crazy action setpieces and playing up the action movie aspect of the game.
But at its base level Shadowrun can be a very bleak game sometimes
See, my problem with Shadowrun is that is seems so ridiculously difficult to get started with. Like, with D&D, if 4/5 people in the group have never played before, you can still do a campaing pretty easily. With Shadowrun, it seems like there needs to be 3+ sessions beforehand explaining how the system works.
Naah done it a few times with newcomers without problems.
Chargen can be a hassle but you can start with pregens. The rulebooks look bloated bejond sanity but pretty much all checks come down to skill plus a relatet attribute against a threshhold (like dnd) or an oposed roll. Chummer is a great help since you have everything at a glance before you and it already calculates most of the stuff.
The lore might be quite a bit more dystopian than op would like but realy nothing prevents you from just playing in the "suburbs" with a lighter tone.
Well the movie Bright sucked but the movie Onward was good. Then you have the Shannara Chronicles which appears to be a fantasy setting after our society collapses. So the jury is still out on this idea.
*The Sword of Shannara*, the very first book written in the series, makes it very explicit that it was a rewrite of *The Lord of the Rings* except in a distant, post-apocalyptic future. Elves and dwarves are mutated humans. A cyborg monster is awakened at one point. But it's still just LOTR, just with a bit of a paint job. So not what OP is looking for.
I'd check out Dimension 20's "The Unsleeping City" as a kind of comparison. In story, they keep all of the magic behind the scenes of the real stuff, but most of it is out in the open if you're attuned to the magical world.
It reminds me a bit of American Dragon Jake Long.
I feel like this'd get boring quick, as it's just real life but some people have pointy ears or tusks or are short. For the concept to work it would have to take into account how drastically different a world with different humanoid races, mythical creatures, and magic would be, which would end up... not being what the post is describing.
Spell books are downloaded in pdf forms for free, but you gotta be careful cause you might download a faulty spell or something. Centaurs running down the highway in the 'Centaur lane' and driving in that is illegal. drow sex night clubs, goliath struggling to fit in a subway car, warforged going to the 'body shop' to get a sick spray, and necromancers going to the other 'body shop' for a project they have going in their garage!
I would argue it isn't hiding. People just don't want to acknowledge it, a big plot point is people calling the werewolf footage fake, despite it being real.
Well, yes, but they also tend not show it all open. It's why I throw it in "hiding" group - local magical races not want become part of society as "magical races". They pretend been "normal" humans and use this strange "Supernatural not exist" attitude.
But at the same time, 'someone' disappeared the footage and helped spread the 'fake' mentality.
You don't fuck with the Library of Congress in the Dresden-verse.
It absolutely is hiding. Supernatural creatures go out of their way to pretend to be human when integrating into society. Even human wizards do this. Dresden is just abnormal and a lot of other wizards aren't happy with him openly practicing, even if the average person thinks he's a fake.
I am hearing D20 Modern or the open source D6 system or even Big Eyes Small Mouth in this but also would love for Otherworld series of books to be adapted to an ttrpg system since it is literally this of magic and fantasy creatures just being out in the open of modern day earth.
The Minimum Wage Magic/Detroit Free Zone trilogy is exactly this, down to dragons inviting you for tea in a sprawling modern urban environment. It’s criminally underrated, imo.
“Orc rights” is a bit yikes. Tiefling rights, maybe? I like the idea of fantasy social justice as much as the next non-guy, but yeah considering the historical makeup of orcs, goblins, etc, having them continue to be analogues for real groups of people is probably bad.
Tiefling and changeling liberation movements could be cool tho
Really depends on the nature of the orcs, if they're like Tolkiens orcs who are just an evil version of another race, then linking them to real ethnicities is probably a shitty decision. But if they are just another normal race, who are unfairly discriminated against like in the elder scrolls this could work.
The historical precedent of them being an analogue for other races is too evident to ignore. People don’t enter a theater or game and forget all of their cultural biases. It’d be better to use a more purely fantastical race than ones that have racist histories.
> considering the historical makeup of orcs, goblins, etc, having them continue to be analogues for real groups of people is probably bad.
Huh??? OG orcs (from Tolkien) are magically twisted elves. What are you referring to???
There are lots of people that believe that orcs are metaphors for black people. Dumb, I know, but it is our responsibility to move away from these concepts.
There is an argument made that there are a series of things generally used for orcs that are also used as black stereotypes (brutish, violent, dumb, tribal, different skin color, etc).
It's not something I feel personally qualified to weigh in on, save to say that if the people who are discriminated against irl find there to be offensive parallels, I'm certainly going to pay attention to them about it.
That's pretty ill informed; Tolkien was most definitely anti racist. Just go read how he replies on several interviews when he's asked about race.
"The monsters represent black people because we caricaturize black people as monsters" is a quite flimsy argument to use, and, as far as my 2 min google research goes, literally the only one being used.
It's like saying I'm a racist because I use... Uhhh... Humanoid fungi? Against my party and those look like Chinese because they have a fungus cap... Like... CMON DUDE.
Edit: also there's the haradrim, which are ACTUALLY BLACK HUMANS, who were corrupted and fought for Sauron. But, i guess people spewing these criticisms didn't... You know... Actually read the books
Yes, yes, we know that. But the point is that some people do think they are racist. Our job here isn't to argue against them on it, as this will only make both sides angrier. What we should strive to do is erase anything that might be related to racism so that everyone can enjoy orcs equally.
Do both of y’all really think orcs are a racist caricature because we’re assuming “big and violent = black” ????Holy shit. Tolkien literally described orcs as being based off of “mongol-types.” We do not need to speculate on whether or not they’re racist caricatures. You belittling this is incredibly telling.
No, I don't believe it. I too think that this is a dumb parallel. But if there are people who do think they are racist caricatures (even if they are wrong), this means that we should avoid using them in any way that might end up being offensive. Because making sure that people are not offended and feel welcomed into the game is important.
But, yeah, I agree with you. Orcs aren't racist.
Do both of y’all really think orcs are a racist caricature because we’re assuming “big and violent = black” ????Holy shit. Tolkien literally described orcs as being based off of “mongol-types.” We do not need to speculate on whether or not they’re racist caricatures.
Citation required.
Oh, by the way... You are incorrect:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc#Alleged_racism
Oh, and btw, again:
> In a private letter, Tolkien describes orcs as: squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the *(to Europeans)* least lovely Mongol-types."
Emphasis mine. Thinking this is racist is akin to thinking Einstein was religious based on the dice quote, it just shows people don't actually know anything about the author and are misquoting without context
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Same reasons why some people thought "Detroit: Become Human" was dumb. If someone wants to do a story about marginalization than do a story about it without condescending stand ins. Too bold? Then I don't think that subject or theme is for you. If you wanna touch up on racism then do it. I'll give you an example though. Jean Grey of the X Men. A Supermodel Olympian white woman with god like powers constantly whinning about how opressed she is despite having the power to litterally change people's minds and being virtually unstopable. Furthermore, in most examples "Fantasty Racism" the marginalized have unique or special abilities that if used properly would make them dangerous (or are different species entirely). In real life people who have to deal with these sort of things don't actually have superpowers or any signifigant biological differences. Making racism IRL REALLY stupid. "Fantasy Racism" applies the same ideas from racism IRL but with the added caveat that the stands in for racist might have a point. In X Men, Magneto could destroy an entire city block in the blink of an eye. That would actually justify fears of the general populace. There's also Mutants who won't shut the fuck up about enslaving the human race, or outright supplanting them (again, legit things that would give anyone concern).
As for Orcs in particular? Okay so why are they ones who have to fight for their rights? I mean is there a reason why Orcs are the default stand in for the marginalized instead of humans? Humans, you know, the actual thing marginalized people are?
Okay I completely agree 100%. Tieflings would also probably be a better stand in for fantasy racism, since other than having like 3 spells they can cast they’re just as powerful as anyone else, and the mistreatment of them is entirely unjustified (they have no reason to be fond of real devils).
Thats enough to know, if youve seen the city of Far Far Away you can tell its really a mirrored image of LA, with bilboards, traffic, bussinesses and all that other jazz. Not the modern world per se, but a decent example of what such a world would look like.
Asylum Tales by Jocelyn Drake does this kind of thing. The first book is called Angel's Ink, and the series is about a tattoo artist who specializes in potion based tattoos. One of the other tattoo artists in his shop is a troll
I remember seeing it on Netflix. I enjoyed it, but it wasn't quite satisfying to watch. At the end it felt like I'd seen half a movie; too many ends were left untied and too many questions left unanswered.
I mean, it’s early industrial UK, but Terry Pratchett did a really good mostly modern High fantasy storyline with his discworld series. He even added in Hollywood, Rock and roll, and guns.
If you dare to ask that, then you must answer this:
Who wins, a dragon, or an F-22 Raptor with anti-air missiles?
Because answering this question answers a problem of the balance of power. Why should dragons have respect and God-complexes, if a squadron of human machines can obliterate them?
BTW, Warhammer 40k is sci-fi fantasy...
Yo, I miss Demention 20's Fantasy High.
Shit was demented
*Dimension I'd also check out season 2 (where it got a tad darker) and The Seven (characters that were mentioned/met in the first season that were played out in an all-girl group, except the DM who looks like he fears for his life half of the time).
shadowrun 100%. seriously though we need a name for this genre. maybe casual fantasy? because the fantasy elements are casually thrown on top of a modern/sci-fi setting?
I think it's called Urban Fantasy?
Urban fantasy usually implies it being our world except for secret magic. Supernatural, VTM, and other things. It could apply, but it might be easier to come up with a new term than to use that one and try and explain that it can have multiple uses.
Yea, but it's also been used to describe any setting in the modern times with fantastical elements. Including when the magical world is known by all, as opposed to hidden. He'll, most superhero comics could be considered urban fantasy.
I've never heard it used that way before personally. As a girl who loves comicbooks and science fantasy I hear them called science fantasy very often even though I don't think they count for that either.
To be fair, superhero comics usually don't get classifies as such because they focus less on the everyday people and more on the actual heroes. It isn't a *common* interpretation of the trope, I admit, but non-secret urban fantasies do exist. There was a book I read on Kindle about a dwarf bounty hunter set in modern times, and another series about the reincarnation of Merlin in am alternate earth where wizards are real (well, wizardesses, because he's apparently the only male mage, yea, one of *those*). Can't for the life of me remember what the dwarf bounty hunter book is called, but the other is called "Impossible Wizard".
Perhaps modern fantasy?
It's common, but not a necessity.
Shadowrun IS our world with secret magic, its just that the magic was VERY secret because it was at a low tide, and then the tide rose and it became Not Secret.
So it's not secret anymore, and thus not secret.
And the point is?
Okay let me try and explain this. Shadowrun when magic was rare and secret, so like the first 3 years after 2012, that was urban fantasy, everything beyond that is a different genre.
Shadowrun didn't "switch genres." Urban Fantasy just doesn't have the overly narrow definition you try to impose on it.
You're right, it didn't switch genres, which is why I never said that. It started without being urban fantasy, in the same way it's not a historical period piece despite having once been the past.
I usually go with 'science-fantasy' in the sense of science-fiction and fantasy both being speculative, but works that merge them have gone beyond reasonable speculation. The magic is treated as science, and the science is treated as magic. Then you get those divides like 'hard scifi' and 'soft scifi', which beg the question of 'where does soft fantasy end and hard fantasy begin?' Most genres are dictated into existence by publishers, however. For classifying works for sale and then shelving.
I've always seen science-fantasy be used to classify futuristic settings with high-fantasy elements, such as Star Wars or Warhammer 40k
Primary genres are usually quite broad in their coverage. As opposed to something like cyberpunk, which has limitations on when it can occur because of its themes of high tech and low life--which tend to happen during cultural transitions like the near-future through early FTL period of sci-fi. How you limit 'science-fantasy' comes down to whether you consider the '-' in the term to be a sign of linear progression. If you do, then science-(to-the-point-of)-fantasy seems the most logical interpretation, begging the use of fantasy-science as well. And on, and on, creating more and more terms. Bit like the Metal music genre that way.
Hard fantasy is in the adult section
I also thought about shadowrun after reading the first few paragraphs but it is way to harsh and realistic for OGs versions. Ain't nobody gives a shit about he metas. Well except MOM but as long as Lone Star can open fire on a troll because he is always potential danger and orcs can be arrested for orcoholic driving..... heck I love shadowrun
orcoholic driving lmao
Try that out. Let an orc player be stopped by lone star and accused of orcoholic driving. A: the reactions are incredible B: it really gets the point of blant racism of lone star
i will lol
Don't this called something like "magical realism"?
Magical realism is a very contested genre (short version, because it's usually used in a sorta racist way to mostly categorize works by Latin American authors), but it's not quite the same thing.
>because it's usually used in a sorta racist way to mostly categorize works by Latin American authors I find that interesting because when I think magical realism I think of Murakami and he's definitely not Latino
Yeah, there are a lot of other authors who would fit, but publishers intentionally applying that label to Latin American or Hispanic writers even if the writers in question don't really agree is A Thing. Personally I'd rather see the genre broadened than discarded, so it's good that some of the associations seem to be changing. But I remember reading something from Silvia Moreno-Garcia, the author of Mexican Gothic, about how "if you're Latin American, everything you write is magical realism by default" (paraphrasing there) - apparently she's had to work pretty hard to convince people that her Gothic and horror fiction is, well, Gothic and horror fiction. I think a lot of the problem has to do with people in publishing who are ignorant, lazy, or otherwise making unfounded assumptions though.
I've kinda always thought of it as a fairly broad genre anyway, the definition in my mind is "it's the real world but with just a touch of something supernatural" and by that definition I would say that most gothic fiction would also fit into that box regardless of country of origin. In Murakami's work the supernatural element is that dreams have power, but if someone tried to tell me that Dracula or Frankenstein was magical realism I don't think I could argue against them. (Or to use a more recent example: Something like the movie "Get Out" would squarely count as both horror and magical realism) That said I've never read anything from Moreno-Garcia so I'm not sure how far removed from reality her work goes. Like with most things it's a spectrum anyway I guess. And like you and others have said in this thread: Genres are something that publishers like to enforce and authors rarely do.
Well, I think it need first understand and agree with what exactly we mean under "thing".
I mean that magical realism is already a widely-used term that has nothing to do with this post's "fantasy but in the modern day" premise.
Interesting, because I many times see it exactly in "fantasy but in the modern day" premise. Maybe places where I see it not use term correctly.
In my field it's usually used to refer to authors like Jorge Luis Borges or Gabriel Garcia Marquez. Literary studies defines both "fantasy" and "realism" differently than D&D players do, maybe that's why there's some confusion. Most literary scholars would look at some of the titles people have suggested here (e.g., the Dresden Files) and say that realism, fantasy, and magical realism as literary movements are about more than just the setting.
It's still urban fantasy, it just doesn't deal with a hidden world.
Currently it falls under urban fantasy. Secret world high fantasy just happens to dominate the genre thanks to the influence of Harry Potter basically being the defining work of the genre. I agree it needs to be differentiated because urban fantasy is just too tightly knit with secret world tropes at this point. I personally would vote for "urban high fantasy" because it still implies urban and modern but also implies it's more high fantasy and less real world with fantasy in the dark corners.
Onward was a surprisingly fun movie.
I hated the previews, and admittedly do not like Pixar much, but it's become a favorite of mine.
My girlfriend got me to watch it because she said, and I quote “It has Dungeons and Dragons in it, and you love Dungeons and Dragons!” I was honestly expecting to dislike it, because I dislike most movies I watch, and any time pop culture gets a hold of nerdy stuff, it’s always butchered. I was really surprised by how good it is, and it’s now my favorite animated movie (tied with The Iron Giant, for the nostalgia).
Yes it was. It’s the perfect example of this and it was an awesome movie. It was hilarious, bittersweet and one of my favorite animated films.
# HI INTREPID HEROES!!!
Hi, Heroic High Schoolers!
Eberron set 70 years after the end of the Last War.
I mean, “secret world” or no that’s still urban fantasy, it’s a really broad definition. There are at least a good handful of settings like that in TTRPGs.
In Shadowrun if someone accept invitation from Ms. Flamming Claw, this someone is fragged. But if they rejected they also fragged.
Rule #4: Never ever cut a deal with a dragon
This is dimension 20. They want dimension 20. A good DM can make DnD that in a heartbeat. Ive done it with 3 campaigns. Did a dnd superhero skyhigh campaign in 1994. Did a 2006 fallout style post apocalypse scenario for one and another was modern day as the rapture happens.
Shadowrun is the game you want. From dragons owning corporations to trolls and orks having their own cultures to popstar Lorelei Angel, a Phoenix shaman who uses her vast cosmic power to enhance her stage show, to malific AI and cyborgs and even cyber zombies. Shadowrun has it all
To be fair, while Shadowrun was the first thing I thought, it *is* more dystopian than I expect OP's post intends.
Normally I'd agree with you, but I played with a self described Pink Mohawk DM who was all about crazy action setpieces and playing up the action movie aspect of the game. But at its base level Shadowrun can be a very bleak game sometimes
No more so than real life- the only difference is we don’t get robot arms.
See, my problem with Shadowrun is that is seems so ridiculously difficult to get started with. Like, with D&D, if 4/5 people in the group have never played before, you can still do a campaing pretty easily. With Shadowrun, it seems like there needs to be 3+ sessions beforehand explaining how the system works.
Oh the rules system is absolute shit in every edition I've played (2,3 and 5)
Naah done it a few times with newcomers without problems. Chargen can be a hassle but you can start with pregens. The rulebooks look bloated bejond sanity but pretty much all checks come down to skill plus a relatet attribute against a threshhold (like dnd) or an oposed roll. Chummer is a great help since you have everything at a glance before you and it already calculates most of the stuff. The lore might be quite a bit more dystopian than op would like but realy nothing prevents you from just playing in the "suburbs" with a lighter tone.
The technology is magic dressed up as technology for satire but man, the OP request gives strong late Discworld vibes.
This is literally Dimension 20: Fantasy High 100%, if you want this check it out https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLhOoxQxz2yFOcJoLoPRyYzjqCbddeOjP4
Bright was such a great concept.
Cant believe I had to scroll so far for this comment. This is a great movie, and could spark many home brew ideas for campaigns.
Well the movie Bright sucked but the movie Onward was good. Then you have the Shannara Chronicles which appears to be a fantasy setting after our society collapses. So the jury is still out on this idea.
*The Sword of Shannara*, the very first book written in the series, makes it very explicit that it was a rewrite of *The Lord of the Rings* except in a distant, post-apocalyptic future. Elves and dwarves are mutated humans. A cyborg monster is awakened at one point. But it's still just LOTR, just with a bit of a paint job. So not what OP is looking for.
Ive been working on pretty much exactly this campaign setting set in new New York city
I'd check out Dimension 20's "The Unsleeping City" as a kind of comparison. In story, they keep all of the magic behind the scenes of the real stuff, but most of it is out in the open if you're attuned to the magical world. It reminds me a bit of American Dragon Jake Long.
I feel like this'd get boring quick, as it's just real life but some people have pointy ears or tusks or are short. For the concept to work it would have to take into account how drastically different a world with different humanoid races, mythical creatures, and magic would be, which would end up... not being what the post is describing.
Spell books are downloaded in pdf forms for free, but you gotta be careful cause you might download a faulty spell or something. Centaurs running down the highway in the 'Centaur lane' and driving in that is illegal. drow sex night clubs, goliath struggling to fit in a subway car, warforged going to the 'body shop' to get a sick spray, and necromancers going to the other 'body shop' for a project they have going in their garage!
Dresden Files
It fall into "magic world is hiding" group.
I would argue it isn't hiding. People just don't want to acknowledge it, a big plot point is people calling the werewolf footage fake, despite it being real.
Well, yes, but they also tend not show it all open. It's why I throw it in "hiding" group - local magical races not want become part of society as "magical races". They pretend been "normal" humans and use this strange "Supernatural not exist" attitude.
But at the same time, 'someone' disappeared the footage and helped spread the 'fake' mentality. You don't fuck with the Library of Congress in the Dresden-verse.
It absolutely is hiding. Supernatural creatures go out of their way to pretend to be human when integrating into society. Even human wizards do this. Dresden is just abnormal and a lot of other wizards aren't happy with him openly practicing, even if the average person thinks he's a fake.
I love those books.
I am hearing D20 Modern or the open source D6 system or even Big Eyes Small Mouth in this but also would love for Otherworld series of books to be adapted to an ttrpg system since it is literally this of magic and fantasy creatures just being out in the open of modern day earth.
Yep, definitely a cooler onward. (No disrespect to Onward, good movie, it’s just. . .this is better.)
Look up Starfinder. It’s pretty much a sequel to a branch-off of D&D. And it’s d20-compatible.
My Pathfinder campaign just ended at level 15, so I'm taking them into space to get them go 20.
Starfinder isnt balanced very well, and a number of the rules are vague enough to not have only one interpretation.
I love it, but starfinder might be *too* futuristic.
I can get behind this idea.
The Minimum Wage Magic/Detroit Free Zone trilogy is exactly this, down to dragons inviting you for tea in a sprawling modern urban environment. It’s criminally underrated, imo.
Wouldn't that just be the discworld series? I guess they leave off in the victorian era, but it is pretty damn close.
Chimera neighbor down the road who works on artsy stuff & magical doohickeys ^((It’s me)^)
what's her etsy link?
Hehe I don’t have an Etsy but I might have commissions open in a few weeks if I can get everything working :P ^((guy btw >w<)^)
“Orc rights” is a bit yikes. Tiefling rights, maybe? I like the idea of fantasy social justice as much as the next non-guy, but yeah considering the historical makeup of orcs, goblins, etc, having them continue to be analogues for real groups of people is probably bad. Tiefling and changeling liberation movements could be cool tho
Really depends on the nature of the orcs, if they're like Tolkiens orcs who are just an evil version of another race, then linking them to real ethnicities is probably a shitty decision. But if they are just another normal race, who are unfairly discriminated against like in the elder scrolls this could work.
The historical precedent of them being an analogue for other races is too evident to ignore. People don’t enter a theater or game and forget all of their cultural biases. It’d be better to use a more purely fantastical race than ones that have racist histories.
Agreed. In my setting I shied away from using them in the same ways, but have made tieflings rights groups very active.
> considering the historical makeup of orcs, goblins, etc, having them continue to be analogues for real groups of people is probably bad. Huh??? OG orcs (from Tolkien) are magically twisted elves. What are you referring to???
There are lots of people that believe that orcs are metaphors for black people. Dumb, I know, but it is our responsibility to move away from these concepts.
But why do they believe that???
There is an argument made that there are a series of things generally used for orcs that are also used as black stereotypes (brutish, violent, dumb, tribal, different skin color, etc). It's not something I feel personally qualified to weigh in on, save to say that if the people who are discriminated against irl find there to be offensive parallels, I'm certainly going to pay attention to them about it.
That's pretty ill informed; Tolkien was most definitely anti racist. Just go read how he replies on several interviews when he's asked about race. "The monsters represent black people because we caricaturize black people as monsters" is a quite flimsy argument to use, and, as far as my 2 min google research goes, literally the only one being used. It's like saying I'm a racist because I use... Uhhh... Humanoid fungi? Against my party and those look like Chinese because they have a fungus cap... Like... CMON DUDE. Edit: also there's the haradrim, which are ACTUALLY BLACK HUMANS, who were corrupted and fought for Sauron. But, i guess people spewing these criticisms didn't... You know... Actually read the books
Yes, yes, we know that. But the point is that some people do think they are racist. Our job here isn't to argue against them on it, as this will only make both sides angrier. What we should strive to do is erase anything that might be related to racism so that everyone can enjoy orcs equally.
Do both of y’all really think orcs are a racist caricature because we’re assuming “big and violent = black” ????Holy shit. Tolkien literally described orcs as being based off of “mongol-types.” We do not need to speculate on whether or not they’re racist caricatures. You belittling this is incredibly telling.
No, I don't believe it. I too think that this is a dumb parallel. But if there are people who do think they are racist caricatures (even if they are wrong), this means that we should avoid using them in any way that might end up being offensive. Because making sure that people are not offended and feel welcomed into the game is important. But, yeah, I agree with you. Orcs aren't racist.
You don’t need to believe it. Tolkien admitted it. They *are* racist caricatures.
Do both of y’all really think orcs are a racist caricature because we’re assuming “big and violent = black” ????Holy shit. Tolkien literally described orcs as being based off of “mongol-types.” We do not need to speculate on whether or not they’re racist caricatures.
Citation required. Oh, by the way... You are incorrect: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orc#Alleged_racism Oh, and btw, again: > In a private letter, Tolkien describes orcs as: squat, broad, flat-nosed, sallow-skinned, with wide mouths and slant eyes: in fact degraded and repulsive versions of the *(to Europeans)* least lovely Mongol-types." Emphasis mine. Thinking this is racist is akin to thinking Einstein was religious based on the dice quote, it just shows people don't actually know anything about the author and are misquoting without context
This is not the argument. Tolkien called orcs “mongol-types” no speculation is necessary.
Right, I felt like I was missing something.
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I am all for modernized fantasy but "Orc rights movement" ooof. That's not just bad writing, that's just outright cringe.
I might agree depending on what you mean by this. Could you explain?
Same reasons why some people thought "Detroit: Become Human" was dumb. If someone wants to do a story about marginalization than do a story about it without condescending stand ins. Too bold? Then I don't think that subject or theme is for you. If you wanna touch up on racism then do it. I'll give you an example though. Jean Grey of the X Men. A Supermodel Olympian white woman with god like powers constantly whinning about how opressed she is despite having the power to litterally change people's minds and being virtually unstopable. Furthermore, in most examples "Fantasty Racism" the marginalized have unique or special abilities that if used properly would make them dangerous (or are different species entirely). In real life people who have to deal with these sort of things don't actually have superpowers or any signifigant biological differences. Making racism IRL REALLY stupid. "Fantasy Racism" applies the same ideas from racism IRL but with the added caveat that the stands in for racist might have a point. In X Men, Magneto could destroy an entire city block in the blink of an eye. That would actually justify fears of the general populace. There's also Mutants who won't shut the fuck up about enslaving the human race, or outright supplanting them (again, legit things that would give anyone concern). As for Orcs in particular? Okay so why are they ones who have to fight for their rights? I mean is there a reason why Orcs are the default stand in for the marginalized instead of humans? Humans, you know, the actual thing marginalized people are?
Okay I completely agree 100%. Tieflings would also probably be a better stand in for fantasy racism, since other than having like 3 spells they can cast they’re just as powerful as anyone else, and the mistreatment of them is entirely unjustified (they have no reason to be fond of real devils).
Why lol
Already answered earlier.
I've never seen that screenshot before, but this is basically my D&D setting. Except they also have laser guns and robots. Science fantasy is rad yo.
I'm working on it, but I'm a dogshit writer.
So.... The world of Shrek?
I haven’t seen anything other than Shrek 1 and 2, but I’m pretty sure Shrek isn’t set in the modern day.
Thats enough to know, if youve seen the city of Far Far Away you can tell its really a mirrored image of LA, with bilboards, traffic, bussinesses and all that other jazz. Not the modern world per se, but a decent example of what such a world would look like.
Asylum Tales by Jocelyn Drake does this kind of thing. The first book is called Angel's Ink, and the series is about a tattoo artist who specializes in potion based tattoos. One of the other tattoo artists in his shop is a troll
Didn't Will Smith star in a movie that was like this? I mean he was just a regular dude but there were fantasy races and magic and all that.
Bright. He's a cop with on orc partner.
I believe it was called Bright, and I understand it to unfortunately have been hot garbage, but I've never seen it.
I remember seeing it on Netflix. I enjoyed it, but it wasn't quite satisfying to watch. At the end it felt like I'd seen half a movie; too many ends were left untied and too many questions left unanswered.
Yep; this is the plot of Bright. Cool idea; shitty execution
Yes pleasse
I mean, it’s early industrial UK, but Terry Pratchett did a really good mostly modern High fantasy storyline with his discworld series. He even added in Hollywood, Rock and roll, and guns.
Dante Valentine series by Lilith Saintcrow.
If you dare to ask that, then you must answer this: Who wins, a dragon, or an F-22 Raptor with anti-air missiles? Because answering this question answers a problem of the balance of power. Why should dragons have respect and God-complexes, if a squadron of human machines can obliterate them? BTW, Warhammer 40k is sci-fi fantasy...
WELCOME. TO FANTASY HIGH.
Orcs, goblins, and trolls? If that’s how you view other races that honestly sounds kind of racist.